23/10/2016 Sunday Politics South East

There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next

leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,

This man might have something to say about that.

Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.

So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?

The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane

on the country's second city which has been in the hands of

In the south-east, Brighton and Hove from this key clash?

In the south-east, Brighton and Hove Labour Party is ordered to split

into three and the one of the richest cities in the

world. Should all private landlords be licensed to help tackle the

squalor? And with me - as always -

the best and the brightest political panel in the business: Toby Young,

Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn - The last leader was in the job

a mere 18 days before she decided The favourite to succeed her then

quit the party after a now infamous Ukip's biggest donor says the party

is at "breaking point". This morning, the former

Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans, announced that she would be

running for the leadership. I've thought long and hard

about this leadership bid, and one of the reasons I've perhaps

delayed announcing it is because I wanted to be absolutely

sure that I had the support And I can confirm that I have

more than enough signatures on the nomination form already

to be able to go forward. Let's not forget that 3,000 people

signed a petition in support of me I know head office was besieged

with letters in support. I would not be doing this

if I didn't have the backing of our members, because our members

are the most important Well, Paul Nuttall was

Nigel Farage's deputy for many years and plenty of people saw him

as a leader-in-waiting. Let's ask the man himself -

Paul Nuttall joins me now. Yes. I've made the decision that I'm

going to put my name forward to be the next leader of Ukip. I have huge

support across the country, not only amongst people at the top of the

party in Westminster and with the MEPs, but also the grassroots. I

want to be the unity candidate. Ukip needs to come together. I'm not

going to gild the lily. Ukip is looking over a political cliff at

the moment. It will either step four step back, and I want to tell us to

step backwards. You say it faces an ex-distension or threat, which means

it's possible it has no future at all. Students of political history

know that political parties take a long time to get going. They can

disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is facing an existential crisis. What

happened over the summer has put us on a... We could be on a spiral that

we can't get off. But I believe I am the man to bring the factions

together, to create unity within the party, and to build on the structure

and get us ready for the common challenges. Why didn't you stand

last time? Because I have spent the last four or five years of my life

travelling around the country. I have done more Ukip meetings than

anybody else, spending a lot of time away from home. With Brexit, I felt

that my job and Nigel's job was done and we could hand over to the next

generation. That doesn't seem to be the case, and maybe it's time for

someone who is an old hand. I'm very experienced and I know the party

inside out. Maybe it's time to step in and bring the party together You

told the Liverpool Echo on the night of July that you didn't wish to take

on Nigel Farage, you didn't want that to happen to your family and

friends. What has changed? The party is facing an existential crisis and

I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the

open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is

moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be

better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I

thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political

parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.

I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well

with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party

together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is

supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able

to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After

November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the

past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has

before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some

of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip

these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not

invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that

will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit

really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class

communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe

Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,

would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in

the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that

mistake. There's working class communities right across the country

is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just

as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and

southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into

these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I

intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a

good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A

bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have

to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our

branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've

got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the

only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel

Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see

what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom

and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be

compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't

know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association

with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?

Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything

about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed

Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the

American election, because I think the two candidates are quite

appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of

your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring

that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.

Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can

move forward. If we don't unify Ukip will not be around for much

longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.

We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's

new leader will be - the winner will be announced

Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between

the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot

stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to

say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another

candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British

politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news

for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?

It is. I think the personality difference and presentational

difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative

county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would

probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At

the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily

between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made

inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they

fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip

have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at

least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will

happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the

unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this

morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no

point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any

longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes

of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two

years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who

will sum that up the best. We shall see.

In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq

and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.

Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',

or an Islamic state, on the territories it

This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters

Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault

Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.

They destroy it before it destroys them.

These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,

the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.

Controlling the city of around 2 million people means

that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.

This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base

you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency

movement in the fabric of another society.

It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq

since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort

Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.

Heading to Mosul from the south the elite troops of the Iraqi army.

Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied

From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,

Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters

who have been accused of human rights abuses.

British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided

in by British personnel on the ground.

To the North West, a corridor has been left for some

of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route

which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.

We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place

in the outlying villages and there have been some

successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.

And the real question will be when the attackers get

towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?

It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.

IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites

in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.

The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families

have been rounded up as potential human shields.

The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?

The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,

some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.

They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.

They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.

The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia

militias which have helped to liberate them.

ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul

If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle

East went up in flames and was then carved up,

it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.

National identity has been cut across by other identities such

And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again

Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,

almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,

and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening

elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.

Big questions, questions that come after the battle.

The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.

I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.

In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two

provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.

Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces

of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain

and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we

don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure

is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few

thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly

likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the

Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they

took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to

create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi

Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.

Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental

blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is

what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that

will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary

Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi

forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of

Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which

is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we

want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.

Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the

border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of

that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the

coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is

likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street

to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we

doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is

very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone

into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps

around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, 40

million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms

of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response

budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we

are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is

that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this

assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You

are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning

since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --

planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the

appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we

need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in

place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is

continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.

The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big

exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist

magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a

unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios it

could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out

of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is

very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and

keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring

them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been

working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we

have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have

worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their

structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have

done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the

British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming

that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt

with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be

crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need

to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as

bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by

the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is

that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they

have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is

stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making

sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is

making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s

response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that

is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the

front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to

make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that

population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing

territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we

think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part

of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult

across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United

Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real

danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last

five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop

often it does unexpected things In 2009 its predecessor had been

largely wiped out in Iraq and when it was under pressure in Syria it

went back into Iraq, and in the past it didn't hold territory but now it

holds territory, so you are right. There is a serious risk that as it

gets squeezed in the middle East it will try to pop up somewhere else

and Mac could include Europe and the United States -- that could. They

say that is something they have focused on full stop we also have a

big focus on counterterrorism security and making sure that we

keep the United Kingdom and Europe say. One final question. -- say --

safe. Maybe events in Mosul could add to the migration crisis in

Europe, is that a possibility? Again, you are right, we have seen

in Syria it can push migration, the biggest push the migration was the

conflict in Syria, and that's the reason why we have but so much

energy into getting those refugee camps in place and getting the

humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want

to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to

make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking

after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they

have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why

our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals

with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.

Does Labour support British participation in this offensive We

fully support the participation in this offensive, extremely important

move forward and we voted for this back in 2014. We are asking the

government question is, of course, I was asking the Secretary of State

this week about this very offensive but we are fully behind our RAF

pilots out there and be trading that has been going on to help the forces

on the ground. -- the training full stop that is very clear. I wonder if

you'll lead it shares that clarity and that position. -- is your

leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn has said.

What's been done in Iraq is done by the Iraqi

government, and currently supported by the British government.

I did not support it when it came up.

Well, I'm not sure how successful it's been, because most

of the action now appears to be moving in to Syria, so I think we

He doesn't sound very supportive. The issue about Mosul, it has been

very carefully prepared as Rory Stewart said and I hope we have

learned the lessons from previous offensives where we haven't learnt

sufficiently, and that is going to be crucial in this context. How the

aftermath is going to be dealt with. Of course will stop that clip was

from November last year, and things have changed. Two weeks ago he told

the BBC" I'm not sure it is working", in reference to air

strikes in Iraq, but it is working. We have got to see what happens in

Mosul, it is a very high-risk operation, but we also have to face

the fact that the people there are living under tyranny at the moment.

We have to ask very cirrus question shall stop he says he's not sure it

is working, when Mosul is the last major target be cleared of Islamic

State in Iraq. The combination of Allied air power has worked, why is

he not sure it is working? Because we have seen difficulties in the

past. But this was two weeks ago. It is essential that the work is done,

both planning for the refugees as Rory Stewart referred to, but also

in terms of reconstruction of the city and its community as you

mentioned. These are vital. This was about the ability to make progress

with Allied air power, special forces in Iraq, on the ground, do

you accept so far that has a strategy that seems to be working to

read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq of Islamic State the question of the

car began placement. Ulloa -- we can't be complacent. The problems

they are creating where ever they are urged that we must continue to

pursue them. This is the first time we have spoken to since you have

become the Shadow Defence Secretary. I hope we will have a longer

interview. Will Labour's next manifesto include a commitment to

the renewal of Trident? It will We made that commitment in 2007, that

is a firm commitment and we will honour that to our coalition allies

and our industrial partners and that is the vote which was taken

democratically and repeatedly has been reaffirmed by Labour conference

and we are a democratic party vote up you have squared that with Jeremy

Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy and he understands the situation,

but we also want to push for the UK to play a much bigger role on the

international stage on multilateral disarmament talks. You were very

clear there, I thank you for that. Support for Trident will be in the

next Labour manifesto. What has happened to Labour's review of

Trident policy? That review has been taking place over the year, we had a

very clear reaffirmation in the conference boat this year, we are

reaffirming our commitment to Trident -- vote. The review can t

change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues

related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t

change the commitment to Trident? We are not changing the commitment to

Trident. Russia is now the main strategic threat to this country? It

is a major strategic threat and we have got to work with our Nato

allies very closely and make sure that we respond and that we do not

let things pass. For example, we should be calling out Russia for the

way it has been a bombing humanitarian aid and we should be

taking them to international court over this, but we should also be

strengthening sanctions, somewhat imposed over Ukraine. We try to do

that, but the Italians wouldn't let us. The Italians did not want to

participate in the European initiative but that doesn't stop

individual countries for the Britain should step up? Yes, we should look

at what is practical to impose. Thanks for joining us.

Mosul is not the only major battle being waged in the Middle East.

The city of Aleppo in northern Syria has seen some of the heaviest

bombardment since Syria's five-year-long civil war began.

This week Russian warships, in a deliberate show of power,

sailed west through the English channel en route to Syria.

Nato says it's Russia's "largest surface deployment" since the end

of the Cold War in what is thought to be preparation

for a final assault on the besieged city of Aleppo.

In the city itself fighting resumed overnight -

following a 3-day ceasefire - with more air strikes and heavy

clashes in the city's rebel-held eastern districts.

Almost 500 people have been killed and 2,000 injured

since Syrian government forces, backed by Russian air strikes,

This week Theresa May condemned Vladimir Putin's involvement

in Syria, accusing Moscow of being behind "sickening

atrocities" in support of President Assad's regime.

But European leaders are divided on how to respond and,

with the United States preoccupied with domestic politics,

President Putin senses this is his moment to bring the Syrian

I'm joined now by the BBC's former Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent,

Bridget Kendall, who is now Master of Peterhouse College in Cambridge.

Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC studio again. Let me put up this

satellite image of Aleppo here, to get an idea of the scale. It was the

biggest city in Syria. It was the commercial capital and a huge

cultural hub as well. Almost the New York of Syria, to give you an idea

of its significance to the country. Let me show you now how it's been

divided. The rebels are now in control of the eastern part, about

eight miles long and three miles wide there, they're in purple. They

are under great attacks still. Is it inevitable that that purple part

falls to the regime? That is what President as Saad, the Russians and

the Iranians hope. The fierce bombardments we have seen is part of

that. I'm reminded very much in the Russian tactics of what happened in

grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when the Russians said, a warning for all

civilians to lead, and then they went ahead and they basically raised

it to the ground. They are talking about Al Nusrah as being one of the

rebel groups. They got rid of all of the terrorists. They talk about it

being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The purpose of going in is to get rid of

them. You get the civilians out and then you take it. But this isn't

like Chechnya. It is much more complex. We have seen an attempt to

take Aleppo before, and then there was a rebel counter offensive. It's

not so certain. And there are so many different parties involved We

have seen the alarm in the west of the extent of the civilian

casualties. There have been rumblings in the west of, shouldn't

the United States do something? Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air

force? This Russian aircraft carrier steaming its way towards the Eastern

Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture, both to its own people, but also to

the West, to say, don't get involved in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try

and stop us because we could up the ante. They have not been great

visual pictures, because the aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped

out, belching out smoke! If the rebel controlled area does fall it

would be seen as a great victory for President as Saad and his Russian

allies. What is the aim of Russia here? What would they then do, if

Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan that President Putin set out in his

UN speech in 2014, before Russia went into Syria. The aim is to put

President Assad back in charge. President Putin said this weekend

that either is Assad in Damascus, or its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in

between. They want to eliminate the argument for a moderate opposition.

They want to make it plain that the only way to get a stable Syria is to

have Assad back in charge. Even sue argue for a rump steak lit, leaving

aside what is happening with IAS. They have already said they want to

have an enlarged military presence at their bases. And they have a big

naval base. It is. It is a chance to push for this when he sees the West

is being distracted and divided Europe and America, by elections and

so on. Just before the US elections. The Americans are worried about

that, Europeans are being distracted by Brexit. He can push to his

maximum advantage now, before there is a new US president. If they do

take that part of Aleppo, and that part of northern Syria, does Mr

Putin want us to recognise, to admit, that that is now his sphere

of influence? I think the rhetoric from the Russians is that they want

the West to recognise that they are an equal powerful partner. It's not

just the US that runs the writ in the Middle East. Russia is as

important as it is. It is engaging with Saudi Arabia and has mended

fences with Turkey. Syria is the place from which it can launch its

message that it is a big player in the Middle East. Russia wants the

West to understand that this isn't a country that was dismembered after

the end of the Soviet Union and is now a week. It is back, and it is

strong. That is an important message. Looking at the economy It

is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price

of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to

fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how

small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It

is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years

ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?

A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a

price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting

the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which

is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and

dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.

But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are

supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,

because the economy is not doing so well. But you need a good story for

the Russian people. Thank you very much.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

This is Sunday politics in the south-east.

Coming up later, the Prime Linster has been accused of dither `nd delay

It is, to be at least anothdr year before we finally know

whether Gatwick, Heathrow or both are allowed to expand.

We all get reaction from politicians and protesters

Joining me in the studio Gordon Henderson, the Conservative

MP for Sittingbourne and Shdppy and Labour's Baroness Maggid Jones.

Gordon, it is the first that we have seen you since you spent tile

in intensive care in the sulmer you suffered serious burns

after trying to light a bonfire with petrol.

It was a very stupid thing to do and would like to take this

opportunity to remind peopld do not use petrol on bonfires.

No matter how safe you think it is and I had been using ht

for years, but one occasion it was not safe and that bldw

And I know you suffered serhous burns.

I'm back to full health, still the paving, my body

is still the paving sort yot look of your energy goes into th`t

process and it will take up to two years to fully recover but H am back

Lesson almost learned because I fell out of a tred again

Now, the split in the Labour Party between Jeremy Corbyn supporters

and moderates has been no where more pronounced

The branch there was suspended pending an investigation into claims

of bullying and intimidation and accusations of a ballot run

improperly at the party's annual general meeting in July.

This week Labour's rulling NEC ordered the local Party,

the biggest in the country, to be split into three separate

It also expelled Mark Sandell, who was elected chair at th`t AGM.

He joins us from our Brighton studio.

The Labour Party will not tdll us why they expelled you and s`y

they do not comment on individual members so I am hoping you can tell

us why you have been kicked out of the party.

I was not expelled by the National Executive,

there has not been a vote on my expulsion, I was

expelled by Ian McNicol, the general secretary,

who wrote me a letter, which I have here.

It basically is happening because the Brighton

and Hove Labour Party was won by the left and an overwhelling

style in an AGM 600 and since that vote happened there has been various

people panicking about the result and that led to the

These are the reasons it is happening and the reasons

are because they are trying to silence the left of the party

For example, 600 people's votes have basically been

The AGM investigation has not come out with any concrete findings

and yet we are being told we will be broken down

Some people think that is a better system for the local party,

the fact is we had a democr`tic meeting which was

the investigation has not found any of alleged any of the alleg`tions

were upheld, and yet we are facing a situation

where still the Labour Partx in Brighton and Hove cannot meet,

we are basically voiceless, the ordinary memembers,

the existing executive is jtst the old executive left in place

the people who won the election have had their vote annulled and be 00

Well, most of them are still members of the constituency Labour Party.

There is 15 people suspended and you have been expelled.

As you know, there has been other allegations about you in particular

and it is against Labour Party rules to be an entryist, in other words,

being a member of another p`rty and then join Labour in orddr

to influence its politics as you know, you have been ` member

of the Alliance for Workers' Liberty for many years on and off

and that actively works against the Labour Party.

Firstly, the letter I have from Ian McNicol does not claim I am

a member of the Alliance Workers Liberty because I am not.

What it says is I am an acthve supporter of the Alliance Workers

of the Alliance Workers Libdrty which is true and I have

and that was well known when I rejoined the Labour Party

a few years ago and well known when I stood for

There were nine days for people to object to me standing,

it was well known when the dlection was held, with people who I defeated

in that election were prepared to shake my hand and congratulate me

Sorry, we do not have an awful lot of time but Ian McNicol is not here,

his job in the wake of Jeremy Corbyn's re-electhon

Could it be that someone like yourself, who has spokdn openly

about wanting to oust the L`bour MP in Hove, is not the right pdrson

is not the right person to chair the constituency Labour

If they want to have that dhscussion with me we can have the deb`te

Ian McNicol is the person who tried to stop Jeremy Corbyn being able

to stand in the second leaddrship election, he is also the person

who used ?500,000 of Labour Party money trying to stop,

in fact, effectively stopping, hundreds of thousands of new members

being able to vote in the sdcond election for Jeremy Corbyn.

He does not have a good record on supporting the leader

The fact is Jeremy Corbyn h`s been re-elected and Ian McNicol says

Maggie Jones, you are a long serving member of the Labour Party

The trouble is it will alienate a lot of Jeremy Corbyn supporters

That is not going to help unity when you hear what has

I think Mark's case is completely different from what is happdning

in Brighton and Hove in terls of the NEC decision.

That decision was made by elected members that we elected to be

the Labour Party NEC, so it is not just a secret

cabal, it has been made by our representatives.

They decided the Labour Party that used to be

in the three constituencies should return to that arrangement

and I think that makes perfdct sense because we know

there were far too many people to turn up to that meeting.

We were mostly victim of our own success, we've got

so many members now cannot really organise them as one unit.

But what about giving voice to people like Mark,

and there are 15 people who have been suspended as well,

who do feel as though the top of the party is trying to ptrge left

I have not seen the letter and I think Mark's accusations

against Ian McNicol are really unfair because he is a partx

servant, he is not here to defend himself.

His job is to carry out the rules of the NEC and ultimately

He is there to carry out thd rules, including rules of membershhp.

Mark has already admitted he is a supporter of the Alliance

of Workers' Liberty, which is a Trotskyist entryhst group

and his membership, he said it was well known,

he certainly did not make it well known when I was present at the AGM.

I think it is important those people who are entryists

That has been a rule of the Labour Party for years

and applied consistently, nothing particular about Mark.

You will appeal this decision, I understand?

There is no rule in the Labour Party but not supporting another

organisation that is socialhst politics, there has always been

socialists in the Labour Party and it is not a party.

There are organisations that are prescribed

What they are prescribed by name and those prescriptions werd voted

I think by sleight of hand ` rule that to people who stand

against the party in elections is being used against socialists.

I have never stood against the Labour Party,

Again, I think if the gener`l secretary was here they might

have a different argument but you have had a chance

They are hiding in plain sight, that his hope campaigners described

modern-day slaves, men and women trafficked into the country and

living here exploited by bosses are unable to leave. The number of

police raids were carried ott on suspected brothels in Kent `nd

Sussex. In one reader for e`stern European woman were arrested.

Joining us is someone from ligrant health UK goose provides support for

those victims. What is modern-day slavery and where is it?

The simplest way to explain it is where someone is exploited `gainst

their will. What trafficking someone is transported as well. It hs

unfortunate across the whold country. The Home Office have a

prediction there is between ten and 13,000 victims of slavery in the UK

at any one time and that estimation is out of date and being reworked.

Sexual exploitation, people associate with human trafficking in

this region but agricultural workers are also something you are

increasingly concerned about? Yeah. The slavery that is more well known

and what you would think of is sexual exploitation of labotr

exploitation in terms of thd number of cases reported outstrips that,

just slightly. In terms of agricultural cases, there h`s been

more awareness and may be spotted more. Sort it is just the

authorities are getting better at finding it? When the Nation`l

referral mechanism started to allow the NGOs and Government to work

together there was only a couple of hundred victims last year wd had

3500. It is not a 40% incre`se in crime, it is just awareness. We have

been trying to raise awarendss of the issue so people are mord aware

of so those cases can be reported because often that is how wd get the

victims support they need and how the police Bill the intelligence in

order to tackle this. What could the authorities do better

to expose a less? If there `re up to 13,000 in the UK what are wd not

doing well? It is a bit past and the police

forces across the country -, big task, it is joining them up to work

together. Some police forces last year had not referred anyond whilst

in west Yorkshire the referred almost 70 people. And that hs the

referral mechanism we talked about earlier. You would like to see more

and more prosecutions as well? The in order to have prosecutions unit

to give good support to victims and they need to trust the authorities

which is very difficult. Often they come from abroad where they have not

had good experiences to trust anyone and therefore offering them services

allowing them to rehabilitate are very important. The research shows

they would then be more willing to they would then be more willing to

work with the police in orddr to gather the needed intelligence.

The anti-slavery commissiondr has just published his first report and

says not enough is being done and in Kent last year the police rdferred

87 potential victims through this referral mechanism but none of those

resulted in a charge or sumloned to court.

This Government has introduced the modern slavery act which will help

police and the long-term to suit steps and I am pleased that Kent

Police have been this week proactive in trying to track down brothels and

arrests have been made, 11 `rrests arrests have been made, 11 `rrests

made but no convictions. No convictions were made. It is a

difficult task and I am concerned to hear what the James is saying about

the labour exploitation in the agricultural sector because I have

got a rural constituency and I am fairly confident the farmers in my

idiot of responsible farmers who would not be exporting the labour

force is what I am sure it goes on. -- the farmers in my area are

responsible farmers. The other accusation made is the authorities

do not properly understand the relationship between the people

exploited and the criminal gangs controlling them. As James `lluded

to it is a tricky one and wd're not getting it right. That is one of the

things James's organisation is doing a good job about, highlighthng to

people this is taking place. We have got to make people understand modern

slavery is happening, it cotld be happening next door, it could be

happening in the shops they go to, it could be happening in thd

community. Like letting people know it is happening so they can look out

for it and report it is one step forward.

You cannot accuse the Government of You cannot accuse the Government of

not doing anything. To May introduced the modern slavery act

last year and appointed the Commissioner. -- Theresa Max

introduced it. It is an isste of resources. Police numbers h`ve been

cut and the appeal in all sorts of directions and we need more police

forces with special knowledge of this area and more convictions. I

think unless we have the police force that are trained to rdcognise

the symptoms and act then one week a year is not enough to sort the

problem. That is a good point and I cannot disagree that we need to

better trim our police officers to recognise this sort of slavdry -

better train or police officers I am delighted Kent the forefront and

I am confident they will continue to do that. Thank you for coming into

the studio, James. It is a political decision

the south-east has been Widespread expectations

were that Theresa May would announce week the outcome of

the Government's deliberations but we may have to

wait some more It seems to be the case

of the never But the Government may be one step

closer to a conclusion on the issue of airport

expansion in This month this Government

will take a decision on the appropriate site

for expanded This is a subject debated,

discussed, speculated on for 40 Last summer the three year dnquiry

into airport capacity backed a new third runway at Heathrow,

but did not rule out The timetable for the Government's

decision looks like this. Next week a Cabinet

committee will meet to Ministers will be free for ` short

time to restate their views and objections, which should avoid

cabinet resignations. Then there will be

a public consultation before, in winter 2017-18,

Parliament vote on a final plan It could then take

a decade before any years says this village would be one

of the worst affected by nohse and pollution if a second runwax

is given the go-ahead at Gatwick. We have been waiting for cl`rity

for the best part of four years now and we were

hoping after delaying would have a clear indication

of where we stand this week. The impact a second runway

would have, obviously there will be a huge increase,

all the planes that are currently flying over that direction,

they would be about two or 300 metres

in that direction so instead of skirting

edge of the village they wotld be coming right over it.

Their concerns have the support of a group of

conservative south-east MPs who also oppose a second runway at G`twick.

We're talking about ?100 billion of economic advantage for the Heathrow

You would be economically illiterate to go for

any other option and quite `part from the fact that we have `

situation where there will be five different

go by rail from central London to Heathrow

while the Gatwick option is

on a line currently frankly that is disaster

proposition to suggest we should be putting the extra runway at Gatwick

Building a second runway at Gatwick has divided

East Sussex County Council says it has

pushed the airport to reducd the impact of noise

My immediate reaction is an element of

I think in the business intdrests of our own community, let

alone the whole nation, we need to be getting on and making

I would strongly recommend to the Prime Minister

that, one, she makes a very firm decision and immediately and

secondly she commissions both airports for expansion.

But one business Association from Crawley

believes the extended process could be good news for thosd

We can go back to Government and say why we support the runway at Gatwick

and build the case and make sure the Government and the MPs who are

going to ultimately vote on it understand why this next runway

A spokesman for the airport said, Gatwick

expansion is the best option for the country

It would give the same economic boost as

Heathrow but with less financial and environmental cost and Gatwick

expansion can be delivered in just ten years.

The decision on where to

increase airport capacity is still hanging in the air.

There is still some way to travel before the

residents and businesses of the South East know

Gordon, it is almost not about which way

the decision will go, it is the

delays that are frustrating people, especially those

They have got to wait another year now.

Yes, it is, and I can understand the frustration but

you must look at the political realities of it, this decishon will

upset a lot of people and no Government will rush into that.

This decision has not taken a year or two

It feels like no Government wants to take that

You are right. It'll be a brave Government but it will be m`de. An

announcement is going to be made next week and parliament in one

year's time and MPs will vote on it and there will not be... We have to

make a decision and whatever I decide will be somewhat hypocritical

double because I campaigned fiercely against an airport at Thames estuary

and for me to seek either or is slightly hypocritical. What about

expanding both? It is going to be quicker and cheaper and delhver a

vote of economic prosperity for generations. I think we havd to be

very careful. Setting aside the business case the actual qu`rter of

the air and the whole environmental issue of noise affects hundreds of

thousands of people. It would affect far fewer if Gatwick was allowed to

build a second runway. The decision must be a business case and I think

you have two measure that and I think the business case is on the

site of Heathrow but it has to be done on the basis of those

environmental and noise predictions are in place and I do not bdlieve

they are. I cannot see the point in delaying another year. Somebody

somewhere should make the ddcision. Heathrow, Gatwick or both? Both

Thank you very much. Now at 60 seconds.

Head teachers in West Sussex went to Downing Street to deliver

a petition about what they say it a serious funding crisis

They say they need ?20 millhon in emergency funding.

We will have to continue to look at our staffing ratios and lay have

to look at reducing the number of hours we are open for.

Police are investigating an allegation and aid

to Conservative MP Craig Mackinlay raped a woman in Parliament.

Sam Armstrong was arrested and bailed last week.

Women in Medway are calling on the local MP to resign

from the Waspi all-party parliamentary group.

The campaign is known as thd Woman Against State Pension Inequ`lity say

Kelly Tolhurst should step down after voting against a motion

to support the campaign in a council meeting.

And the former Liberal Democrat MP for Lewes, Norman Baker,

It is called Throwing Meet @t Tigers and criticises David Cameron for his

Soaring Meet At The Tigers. As someone who campaigned for Brexit do

you feel like one of the Tigers was throwing the meet at? To thd Mac I

find it odd people objected to him find it odd people objected to him

calling a referendum. I heard someone say we should not h`ve one

because people do not understand. How very patronising. And I thought

we would have a Brexit free programme! Thank you to both my

guests. Join us again next week Goodbye.

go ahead with this policy, I know. And now back to Andrew.

So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances

With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic

State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure

in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of

Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But

curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being

driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous

here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a

government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing

Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda

around Afghanistan and Pakistan You smash them somewhere, and they pop

up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go

somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic

oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign

fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,

to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn

that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,

with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,

if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,

that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We

knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was

categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and

categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take

tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to

fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by

that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was

intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically

imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she

cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy

are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much

leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think

it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it

is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because

Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow

Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in

the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of

people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear

what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important

for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two

years provided for by Article 5 to negotiate both our withdrawal

agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,

including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,

in financial services, that it should tell the House

of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement

with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end

of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an

interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade

Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15

negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future

trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible

that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a

trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are

outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important

thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely

essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now

it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part

of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a

progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade

deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all

of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope

it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will

hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we

have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is

interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls

there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now

saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single

market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,

as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a

year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income

we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public

opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but

this isn't a price worth paying Everything tends to be seen through

the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.

The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free

trade between the EU and Canada and therefore subject to the

ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same

access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be

diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.

Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we

still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at

the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well

as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade

deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the

Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why

Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one

deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this

morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote

after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a

vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article

Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up

their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best

hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see

through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The

French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty

disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The

government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in

April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those

children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities

there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and

a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social

workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising

an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.

The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones

coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.

Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber

Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home

Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age

verification or when it will go It needs to be an perfect. We don't

know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want

to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we

have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from

Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the

decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for

a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think

Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an

election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much

harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime

Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general

election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party

will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of

Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.

But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general

election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be

won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.

You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a

little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly

last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.

Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be

saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?

Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour

leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few

politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being

embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.

We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.

Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow

And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

Everyone's living these amazing lives,