11/03/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

Later in the programme with 21 Welsh communities without a bank

and 47 with just one. Welsh MPs share their concerns about bank

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1802 seconds

Hello, but I am Aled ap Dafydd and on their Sunday politics Wales we

get a Welsh fear of the situation in Afghanistan.

And how deprived a you in some of the remotest parts of the country?

The scenery might be lovely, but with less access to public services

and banks closing, does it feel like being a second-class citizen

if you live in rural parts of the country?

Joining me are to first class rural MPs, Albert a winner and Glyn

Davies. Budget Day is looming large, what is on your wish-list?

We have to tackle the fuel duty. We are paying highest price is on

record and we also need a plan of growth. We have been talking about

it for two years and all we have seen his austerity and cuts. Labour

has some ideas, but I want to see Chancellor has come up with good

ideas that we can all get around and get people back to work.

Unemployment levels are a disgrace and we need to deal with that. We

need a plan for growth so that we can get more taxes into the

Treasury and spend our way out of the recession. Not on benefits, but

on people buying goods. Glyn Davies, we are hearing their budgets are

being squeezed, D thing the government will be able to offer a

respite? Generally speaking, this strategy that I want to see is the

same as what Albert wants to see. I think we need to look at fuel again

this year, but really growth is what we need and we are looking for

a Budget for growth, to encourage employment and increase tax take.

That is what I am looking for the Chancellor to do.

Some sad news, Afghanistan has been in the news today with a US soldier

allegedly killing several civilians which follows a week in which six

British civilians were killed while on patrol in Kandahar province. Our

reporter has been talking to a former minister with direct

experience. It is more than a decade since the

war in Afghanistan began, but this week we saw this Ingall deadliest

attack on British life as six soldiers were killed on the

roadside. Their deaths mean that more than 400 British personnel

have been killed in Afghanistan since 2001. Joining me now is the

former Labour Foreign Office a. Your government made a decision to

go into Afghanistan in the first place, do you stick by it? It was

the proper thing To do In December 2001. It was a UN resolution, I

think 23 nations went in including us. The idea was to drive the Al-

Qaeda out of its training camps in Afghanistan and try to do something

with this terrible government that was a run by the Taliban at the

time. That was successful. The problem, I think, was that we then

tried to turn the country into something that look like a

democracy. And then did so having to support a corrupt government and

terrible problems with Pakistan and Iran that in a very tough

neighbourhood. I'm afraid we have not been successful. David Cameron

and Philip Hammond have this week suggested it is a worthy war. We

have had their head of the armed forces suggesting that the gains

made a truly impressive. They believe that it is still worth

fighting for, but do you disagree? I think we should pull out very,

very quickly. We do it in an orderly manner, get our troops out

safely and aid workers out safely. The Afghanistan has been in a big

hole for a very long time and the only people to sort out Afghanistan

in the end are going to be Afghani is. They have to decide not to

treat women were sent they treat camels. They have to decide that

they must educate the young people, especially young girls. We can't

make them do that, we can encourage them and help them and will

continue to do that, but we will not do it by force of arms. We are

in our 11th year of this war. The longest in modern times. If we have

not done it by now, we are not going to in another 15, 20 years.

There were diplomats talking about us being there for 30 years, this

is a nonsense. That can't be Britain's role for the next three

decades. All them 400 servicemen and women died in Afghanistan, use

a trip should be pulled out. At what point did they die in vain?

don't think they died in favour. I think the problem with this war,

like so many others, is that the commanders, politicians to conduct

the war and negotiate, they always believe that it is when a ball. The

Americans did in Vietnam and we have done in previous wars. Many

wars against the guerrilla forces which is what the Taliban are. All

of the other warlords and factions in that area I'll rarely win the

ball by a professional armies. We never quite understood that, I

think, that even though the Russians had tens of thousands of

troops, they still could not win. They did not care about human

rights or what the world thought of them and yet they were still

defeated and had to leave Afghanistan. We should have learned

from that lesson. Making the point that he makes, no

apologies for the decision to send troops. With the benefit of

hindsight, do you think it was wise? Certainly at the time. Force

of an -- for stability in the Western world. I did not support

Iraq, but I did support Afghanistan. But the contradictions seems to be

that he went on to say that these wars are not when the ball with

professional army is which begs the question, what disappointed sending

an army in the first place? I do not hold that view. I have been

consistent that if we go in there we have to do the job and I don't

think my job has been completed. We need to see a drawback, but not to

a fixed time. A fixed time is the Taliban a chance to fill that gap.

Worked with the people of Afghanistan and security forces in

Afghanistan to make it, not to create a democracy, but to create a

safe country. This is a country suffering from chronic instability.

How has this situation been able to develop over the past 10 years?

What we are dealing with today is, we have gone in to protect our

country as well as to introduce a degree of stability in Afghanistan.

It is a big, big job and the answer to it in the end, I listened to Kim

Howells speaking and think it is right to pull out in a orderly

fashion, but part of that is to train the Afghan security forces to

do what we are doing. I think that President Obama and their prime

minister are talking about a strategy Inc -- involving moving

troops out in 2015. But it has to be in an orderly fashion. It has to

be so that everybody did not die in vain, it is for a stable

Afghanistan. Since the fall of the Taliban, they have, many think,

been able to regroup. This has been a failed mission? Admission is

never failed until it is over. We knew in the beginning it would be a

very difficult ambition to achieve a stable government. It has been a

very bad week. Six young soldiers being killed at once and another

terrible incident involving American troops and violence, a

very difficult week. This sort of mission will have very difficult

weeks. Governments can't just have a difficult week and withdraw. We

have to withdraw with security services capable of maintaining the

country. To what extent do you think foreign trips are propping up

the Afghan government which has very little control outside the

capital? Building governance is a big issue and changing cultures. I

don't think we can do that very well. We are getting better and we

can work with them to be say economy. What the people of

Afghanistan once in the future is what the Western world ones. It is

not about imposing democracy, it is about giving freedom. We are in

joint allies here, there are many countries involved. It is not just

about the US and the UK imposing on Afghanistan. It is giving them the

bottom up waited de Witt and that will not happen quickly. I don't

disagree with anything that Albert is saying on this issue. Except the

date, the government has a target date a 2014, but generally I do not

agree with Kim Howells, you cannot withdraw immediately. I think that

is the wrong answer. Fantastic countryside with lovely walks but

limited access to public services some poor public transport, is that

the best way to sum up rural Wales? The rural communities debate heard

there were 21 communities in Wales with no banks at all and 47 with

just one. The Brecon MP told our reporter he was very concerned

about the banking situation. It seems to me there is a programme

for bank closure among so big banks across the UK, but they any close

one banker at a time and therefore it is important that a raises issue

in the House of Commons so that the Treasury ministers understand what

is happening, but also we are a boys were the local community.

us some examples you have been working with the and communities

affected? We campaign to keep the Barclays Bank O'Brien -- Barclays

Bank Open in Presteigne. They were the only bank that had a cash

machine and without backlash meshing, people would not be

aborted get money together to go out and have a meal and enjoy the

towel. That would put all businesses at a disadvantage.

Almost like being back in the seventies when you had to get your

money out before finishing work. Absolutely. Sometimes rising to be

a bit excitable and we did get a cash machine open, but it is a very

important thing that people take for granted in cities. It is

absolutely essential for the local economy in rural towns and Wales.

Finally, beyond it just making it the Treasury ministers are aware

and getting their recognition of the problem, what really can this

place du? We are putting forward to proposals. One is that we have a

common facility a in a place like Presteigne where a number of banks

will be based and offer their products and services. That would

reduce the cost to them while ensuring there is a presence in

these villages and towns. Also, what we are saying is that when you

come to the last banking town, then there is a duty and responsibility

for these banks and it is ones they should not get out of. After all,

all of these banks have had some government resistance, may not be

directly, but in terms of quantity in easing the government has been

able to maintain liquidity it which allows these banks to survive and I

hope flourish in the future. We don't know how much trouble

these two MPs have had accessing their cash machines. If these are

are not viable, surely there is a case for closing them down? I think

the banks have not got it over the years. They me to engage with

people and not distance themselves. A bank is supposed to be a

community asset. We have seen billionaire's creating money across

the world and yet letting the people down who created these banks

and the first place. I'm concerned we are not only talking about the

banks, it links with the shops and the pubs in the area. Once we use

these facilities, people will not gravitate to these communities.

What you are saying is that banking groups should use rural banks as

some sort of loss leader? They are not a charity, but they are

supposed be part of the community. I have not heard this discussed at

any shareholders' meeting. Unsure if people had a real say they would

want to keep rural banks Oban. We are also talking about jobs in

these areas. It is a big blow and I agree with Roger that we need to

stand up to them. I am meeting with HSBC management on this very issue

in a couple of weeks' time. I do not think that they get it. We need

a network of banks. They were set up so that you could walk in

through the door and get your money out. Now that money is played with

like Monopoly across the world and we are losing that valuable

institution particularly in rural areas and market towns where people

gravitates. Surely people in rural Wales count lead a normal everyday

life by paying bills on the internet, for example. You don't

have to have a cash point in every village. A not every villages on

the internet. Broadband is expanding well, but there are a lot

of areas in rural Wales at do not have good coverage. A lot of

elderly people are not tuned into that also. There is an argument for

us to retain banking infrastructure as possible -- as we possibly can.

That is something I have been involved in in most of my life.

Unknown not all people are going into the banks anymore and there

have been steady closure has, but I make it my mission to slow that

closure Dowen. Not just on banks but on all rural services. Can I

played devil's advocate, people know the score when they choose to

live in rural Wales. They know they might not be a cash point. They

know what they are getting themselves into, don't make?

accept that, and you will not have the same services as you would in

an urban area, but still I am of the Rural Wales born and lived

there all my life and want to retain a strong is the structure of

services. I know it is not going to be as good as the town, but the

compensatory factors of living in rural Wales make a fight which is

why an awful lot of us could never contemplate living elsewhere.

these services are disappearing, is there a danger that these villages

will become ghost villages? Yes. he say you can go to the town, but

often you can't because the bus services have been reduced. I go

back to the point that they are linked to the pubs and the

restaurants and the shops and people socialise there and it will

have a knock-on effect. The banking staff themselves actually help the

economy in many areas. We have to look at this not just as a business

case, but as a social case for banking in rural Wales and in towns.

Quick final word? Again and, it is embarrassing today because I seem

to be agreeing with everything. That is the aim of nearly all rural

MPs, to retain as good and strong at infrastructure of services as we

possibly can knowing full well that the way modern life works, you're

not going to be totally successful in everything, but I do think that

the banks, social responsibility bearing in mind they have been

supported by government. The community debate happened last

week but a lot more happened last week. Here is a look back in 60

seconds. International Women's Day, a global

celebration for their economic, political and social achievements

of women were celebrated by MPs. David pants and urge the UK

government to give pressure on UK Motors.

The Prime Minister attacked the Welsh government over the NHS, this

time at the prompting of a Conservative MP.

Labour MPs queued up to attack the UK government over plans to close

seven out of nine enterprises in Wales. 272 disabled people face

redundancy. The Welsh government said it would

reveal information before it can step in and save jobs.

Wayne Davies gave us a charity concert in London in aid of March:

Cancer support. -- Macmillan. The Glynn Davies, would you agree that

that was a botched announcement? I believe it should have been an

oral statement to challenge a sensitive decision in the House of

Commons. Like everybody, it is a hugely sensitive issue and had

particular impact on Wales because of history and I think it is the

right decision. I think people with disabilities should be employed in

mainstream business, I don't think there should be grouped separately

from society and what we found is that that works where well. The

cost of employing people through that system is cheaper. These

factories are losing money, where is the business case for keeping

them open? We are talking about a vulnerable people here. It was

botched and it was vindictive the way it was done. He you have people

who contribute to society, I agree is to get them into mainstream, but

Jimmy bat factory first instance to get them there. It will take an

awful long time to get some of these people back into mainstream.