02/12/2012 Sunday Politics Wales

The Chancellor comes clean. They sing the death as it is taking

longer than he hopes. Will have the latest and get the Lib Dem few days

before the Autumn Statement. As the dust settles on Leveson and

Ed Miliband repeats his call for press regulation by law, his Labour

on the wrong side of the argument? We will ask Harriet Harman.

And he is the tough new Justice Secretary intent on making life

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2150 seconds

hell for the criminal classes - Allow London Sunday Politics Wales:

The new Anti-Human Trafficking Co- ordinator tells me that modern-day

slavery is happening across Wales. And should is keen to republish

classic Welsh books continue to get public fault and? -- a scheme to be

published classical whilst books continue to get public funding?

That star with comments from the Chancellor, looking his Autumn

Statement. He says dealing with the deficit is taking longer. Is that

an admission that plan A is not working? Plan a has been modified

so many times it is no longer plan a. It is a good thing because you

have got to get the balance right between tackling the deficit and

managing the economy so we don't plunge back into recession. The Lib

Dems have been particularly keen in terms of getting more capital

investment and making sure that we go a bit slower to make sure we get

the balance right. They may be blaming us for that but we have to

be realistic about what we can achieve in the time available so in

a sense, he is right. Peter seems to be taking responsibility for

that. Are you pleased to hear the Chancellor say that he is taking

longer? I suppose that fits into the agenda set by Ed Balls that

cutting too fast and too deep is not the way to go. I am not pleased

to hear him say that he has been on the wrong track. I would have been

much happier... I'm not sure he said that. That is what it amounts

to because he had a plant that was supposed to deliver and pay down

the debt and dull the pain was going to before some game. So I am

not pleased to hear that he has put people out of work. -- pain that

was going to be fought again. I hope that he will start to realise

that if you do not invest, particularly in Wales, by some

measure in capital projects, and don't invest in the public sector -

which seems to be the only game in town for delivery at a moment. I

was speaking to businesses yesterday who were telling me that

they had supported the Conservatives practically all their

lives but on this one, they are wrong and that Labour's approach

would have suited them far better, and that the banks will not support

their businesses. Some of them are long-standing businesses and a

close to collapse just because of those particular policies that are

not working. It does not please me. We will get more from the

Chancellor on Thursday in his statement.

In the last three years, there were around 50 recorded cases of human

trafficking in Wales. Evidence suggests that the real figure is

actually significantly higher. There was government have just

appointed Steven Chapman as the new anti- trafficking co-ordinator to

tackle the problem. When I met up with him in the Senedd, I began by

asking him what he saw as his biggest challenge. The biggest

challenge is for people to recognise that human trafficking is

really slavery. What I would like to do is raise our profile so that

people start to report these incidents. So far we only ever get

to hear of incidents when they reside the police ordered UK Border

Agency activity. What I would like is for the public of Wales to

report on the incidents and to be aware that in 2012, slavery is

still going on. We know from statistics that there are 3 million

people coming through Alport every year. His Wales a soft touch. --

fruit our ports. We have many would scheme to Wales and many ports that

are not as large as Dover that benefits from the man power

extended by the Border Agency and equipment. We could be seen as a

soft target but we needed to make sure that incidents are being

reported. I do not want to make assumptions about anything but I

think it is fair to say that right across the United Kingdom and

further afield, anti- human trafficking is second only to anti-

drugs in the world crime league. you were to see news headlines

around this issue, you might think this is just a problem with the sex

industry and people being trafficked into brothels. I would

like to dispel that myth. It is not just about females being trafficked

into the sex trade. It is not just about young females. It is about

young people, children, old people, and yes, the sex trade is involved

but we also have domestic servitude, people working in factories,

restaurants, fields, on farms - and not just cannabis farms. It goes

right across the piece. It is not just focused on big cities. It is

rural areas. We know here in Wales we have a very large rural

population. All those things you have spoken about - are you certain

they are happening in Wales? Yes, I am certain. They are happening

across the UK and this is why... It is a public awareness campaign that

needs to be refocused. Let's not beat about the bush. Slavery is a

crime and like all crimes, what I am asking is if the public are

suspicious that something is going on, they report it to the police.

Welsh government is the first in the UK to establish a post like

this. What does that say to you about their commitment to the

issue? It is one of the reasons I applied for a job. I live in Wales

and the Welsh government are taking the lead in the UK. There is no one

to fill this role in London for England, or in Northern Ireland or

Scotland. So this is very much an agenda that is being led by the

Welsh government and I am proud to be working for them. I would also

like to say that we have recognised this problem and we are making

positive actions. Also, as I said before, I would like to send a

message of hope out to those people who are being trafficked that we

are going to be working together and we are going to seek and locate

you, rescue you and look after you. Joyce, I think that is the first

chance we have had to hear from Steven Chapman. His post came as a

result of lots of work that you have carried out during your time

as an am. What did you make of that? What he said his ride. Human

trafficking is the second biggest crime internationally. He is right

to point out that it is not just about women in the sex trade,

although I have to say primarily, it is. But if we close our eyes and

ears to all the other forms of trafficking that are going on, then

we will miss those opportunities. What he says also about Wales'

leading the way is absolutely right. I have given talks right across the

UK and into Europe. Every time I do that, people are impressed by the

lead but the minister and the Minister for children are taking in

terms of recognising it up, firstly as a crime and secondly about

dealing with feet out fall and protecting those very vulnerable

What can he do about it? How can he make it better? By raising the

profile and also by gathering people who have the intelligence to

do something about it together in a forum, so that everybody that is

engaged in doing something about it understands what it is they are

supposed to do. There are protocols and place that help people to

understand what they ought to do and I think the major part of the

role is getting action on the ground and protecting the victims.

You heard him say that he hopes to get the public to recognise that

and an easy way to do that is, if you have a house in your street and

you see multiple people coming backwards and forwards, that should

really raised alarm and particularly if you notice that

maybe they are from different cultures and speak different

languages. -- raised the alarm. The number of people who are trafficked

are here legally and they are Europeans, so a lot of activity

just like people would see when people are dealing in drugs -

people back and forth and lots of different people. If they see that,

they must not assume that they cannot be involved. They can make a

phone call. He was setting out all kinds of things that were going on

in Wales. Will that surprise a lot of people? You represent South West

Wales and are based in Swansea. They may not be surprised it is

happening there put across rural Wales, he says people are being

treated as slaves. I think it will and that is part of the value of a

post. In terms of raising profile and making people aware of what is

going on. It is not as making people aware on the street but

raising the awareness with government agencies. He referred to

the issue of Wales being a soft touch and one of the reasons for

that is five years ago, a lot of Customs and Excise officials were

pulled out of Welsh ports. If the government were made aware of that

in terms of human trafficking, maybe they could rethink that

particular issue. It is a different UK government now. He said it could

be seen as a soft touch. He could be and there are issues about

Customs and Excise but also the police. It is an issue of

priorities. We have new police commissioner has in place. They

might be interested in this particular issue and I will be

hoping to work with them in terms of directing police resources

towards this. It is a really important post and one which can

make a difference. If you use that role to go watchmakers agencies, to

raise awareness with ordinary people -- to co-ordinate those

agencies, then we can make a difference in terms of trafficking.

Whilst we talk about our borders, the majority of human trafficking

actually happens within the borders of the UK. If we put an awful lot

of resources in one direction, or we might miss that majority of the

traffic. All the evidence tells us people might be trafficked into the

country wants but then they are traffic around the country multiple

times and it is those issues that the agencies really need to be

aware of. We will leave it there for the moment and we will be back

for some more contributions in a moment.

A scheme to republish classic Welsh books that have gone a to print

must continue getting public funding, according to the Wales

Book of the Year winner Jon Gower for the Welsh government is facing

a call to withdraw financial support.

Jon Gower won the Welsh language event that grave for his novel. He

is in the process of reaching the 34 books that form the Library of

Wales series. Walking the road in the October evening, they felt on

their faces their own country. The but so far published by a company

who say they have reached a landmark in sales.

But series is printed here. They have sold 50,000 copies since the

books started coming off the presses in 2006. Supporters say it

is about looking after Welsh heritage. We see the way we but

after castles and museums look after artifacts. Books are dead

artifacts unless they are read and I think the fact that these books

are in schools, and that you can argue about them - as some of

weaker than others. Having good books and encouragement so to read

such books is a good thing. This series has 34 titles which had been

out of print and are now back in circulation and being used in

schools and universities. That has happened with the help of a �50,000

grant from the Welsh government, up by the Welsh Books Council. At the

talk in Cardiff this week, this novelist was extremely critical of

the public funding of the Welsh publishing industry. We where is

the scrutiny? Where is the accountability? Where is somebody

independent going in and say Int, "what the hell are you doing?" This

Is Your Money, my aid money, the voters' money. Some in the audience

took exception to his argument. But Julian says he is not against

funding the arts in general, but books in particular. I would say no

more funding for books. Welsh language books - that is a

different matter altogether. I have no issue with that. That is fine.

But these postgraduate literature student at Swansea University say

the Library of Wales series is a vital resource. It is important to

have art supported across the spectrum. Literature is important.

A sense of cultural identity is important. How big the series there

and having it continuing to produce more volumes has been a treasure

for students. -- having the series. We need hospitals but we need

culture, as well. There are calls for the Welsh government to

continue its support of literature. There is a philistine element that

says, but books first as hospitals. Well, in a grown-up Coldred, and as

well as premature as politically, there has to be room for all that.

-- in a grown up country and as a Wales matures politically. Whether

this and other aspects of public spending make economic sense is

coming under increasing scrutiny as budgets continue to tighten.

Peter Black, your response to the call made by Julian for this kind

of funding to be withdrawn. Speaking as someone who never

throws books away and spell of -- spends a lot of time looking

through second-hand bookshops, I think it is important that these

titles continue to be available. We have to ask whether it reprinting

titles is the most appropriate way to do it. A lot of people accessing

literature through electronic books. We have to ask whether the money

would be spent better publishing them in that way. That would be

cheaper. The wider point about support for literature and for the

arts is one that I would like to see continued. They are very

valuable ways of funding literature. The Dylan Thomas Prize, for example,

helps young artists who are trying to find their feet and get into the

literary world. That is a very valuable way. It has helped a

number of young artists establish themselves as literary figures. It

is not just about preserving what has gone in the past but about

supporting new writers and New Poets and new artists and helping

them establish themselves. Bat will be a good use of money. -- of that.

Man, said it is not an argument between books and hospitals. I

don't think that was the point that was being made. Julian just thinks

people should not get any grants. will actually support funding. We

have issues quite clearly with raising literacy in schools but we

have seen a revival in the reading of books and JK rolling probably

helped to bring that to the fore. I think it is always easy to make an

argument that we can use the money better somewhere else but we just

started at the head of the programme talking about the economy

and ways to raise the GDP. That happens in Wales in a large wave by

it the sector that is the arts. Part of that sector his books. I

have no argument at all with this continuing. In terms of Peter's

argument, there is a wider debate to be had. Personally, I'd like a

book in my hands. And like Peter I put it in a bookcase, never to be

left again. I don't accept the argument that we should not fund it.

I think that if we close down Wales in terms of the arts, that would be

a huge mistake. Let us broaden it out. We heard from the Chancellor

earlier that the deficit is taking longer to pay down. Does that mean

there is going to be pressure on budgets? After the arts are seen as

the first and easiest place to make cuts. -- often. Should there be

concern in the arts world that the axe will fall? There is pressure

already. The Library of Wales are under pressure in terms of how they

use the Budget. They do important working digitising the archive and

making it available online. They are also being asked to continue

the way other work they are doing in terms of preserving many of the

artifacts they have. I think we have to find a balance. Arts is

always one of the first to be cut and we have to have aligned which

we cannot go below because as Joyce says, the arts are really important

- not just in terms of developing jobs and employment opportunities

but in terms of widening people's horizons. Reading a good book helps

people with their literacy but also helps them in terms of how they can

speak and their literacy and getting jobs as part of that. The

more people read, the more literate they are, the more people want to

employ them. We will have a quick look back at some of the political

stories of the week now. They UKIP MEP John often sought

assurances that no Welsh council had denied all removed children

from foster care on the basis of political allegiance. An English

council was widely criticised after taking away children from two year

Kip members saying it had concerns about the party's immigration

policy. An episode of this soap-opera was

broadcast on S4C for the second time despite calls for it to be

scrapped. There were criticisms about the programme's stance on

badger culling. The conservative assembly leader

Andrew RTE Davies brought about the Leveson Inquiry. -- talked about.

He hoped assembly leaders could send a letter of shared views to

the Prime Minister. A Welsh Secretary David Jones rejected a

call to merge his department with the Northern Ireland and Scotland

offices, telling MPs that Wales benefited greatly from the current

arrangement. A final word from our guest. There

were chuckles in the studio when we saw the news about Andrew Davies

and wanting to South send shared fears about Leveson. They might

come to a shared view somehow. The government in Westminster is

struggling to come to a shared view and for the first time, I think,

since the 1930s, we have seen two opinions made by two people in

coalition. Why it relaxed about it, apparently. Apparently but I AM not

relaxed about Leveson. I think that 16 months of inquiry commissioned

by the Prime Minister who immediately comes out and says, "I

AM not going to support it", even though the whole idea of putting it

out for scrutiny was that he would support it. I feel for people who

have gone through exposing their souls reading very bad experiences,

for what? And that has to be the I am quite relaxed about the

disagreement because I think Nick Clegg was on the right side of the

argument. Abuses have happened in the press and something needs to be

done to put that right. If you do not have the statute jury at --

statutory underpinning of the new regime, newspapers will do it again.

That, in a sense, links in with the story about the badgers and S4C

because on the same day Leveson was being reported, we had government