12/07/2016 Tuesday in Parliament


12/07/2016

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Hello and Welcome to Tuesdax in Parliament, our look at the best

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of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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On this programme, the Governor of the Bank of England denids

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being involved in any 'scaremongering' in the recdnt EU

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We make no apologies for having done our job and help

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Could he be switched from Foreign Secretary to Chancellor

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With big changes afoot, Philip Hammond comes in for some

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Can I also start by saying that if rumours of promotion are true,

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this may be my final session with the Secretary of State before

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The Governor of the Bank of England has been defending his role

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Mark Carney had been accused of unfairly bolstering the campaign

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But he told the Treasury Colmittee it was his duty to provide

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a straight-forward assessment of the risks.

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It is not based on whim, pre-judgement.

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It is based on analysis, robust debate, assessment.

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And it is our responsibilitx to give these assessments.

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So the point I will finish with on this is that

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The debate cannot be about whether we should havd

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If we view something is the biggest risk,

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a statutory obligation, to make that clear to Parli`ment.

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We have an obligation to thd people of the United Kingdom to cole

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It catalyses action and hopdfully we'll have a chance to disctss

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what was done in response to this that had mitigated,

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So the debate can be about whether we made

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That's an entirely legitimate debate.

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Not whether we should have lade the assessment.

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I don't know how much comfort you take from it,

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but one of the most prominent Brexiteers, Boris Johnson,

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is claiming that you have done a superb job.

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So I'm sure that makes you feel good.

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Any port in a storm, Chair.

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The assessment of this commhttee, the financial policy committee,

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that issues around the referendum where the biggest domestic risk

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Apart from just meeting our statutory obligation,

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which should be the alpha and omega of this discussion,

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but it also catalysed action by the PRA, from a

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Those open foreign exchange positions, I won't go

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It catalysed action by the Bank of England in terms of liquhdity

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It catalysed actions by private financial institutions

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to manage risk in the run-up to the referendum.

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It also catalysed action between the Bank of England

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and foreign central banks to put in place a series of other

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contingency measures, which have not proved to be

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analytically-based analysis, helped ensure that this system

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and effectively as possible to put this country in a position to take

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maximum advantage of the decision of the people of the United Kingdom.

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So, we make no apologies for having done our job.

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The Governor was also asked about his preparedness for ` second

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If there ever were an analogous scenario, and I'm not

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making any predictions about the specific question.

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The second point is that, certainly what we saw in terms

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of the risks to financial stability around the last Scottish referendum,

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a lot of it addressed the headquarters of major fhnancial

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institutions and then the responsibilities

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government for those financhal institutions, and whether or not

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they have the fiscal capacity to meet those responsibilithes.

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So without prejudice to any political revolution,

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certainly those types of issues should be addressed well,

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well in advance of any decision that would be put before anyone.

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Well, no shortage of political drama in the last

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At the start of the day, the very last of the 215 Cabinet

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meetings to be chaired by David Cameron took place ahead

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of Wednesday's handover to new Prime Minister Theresa May.

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Meanwhile, as uncertainty continues at the top of the Labour party,

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reports emerged of an ugly incident in Merseyside.

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It was reported a brick had been thrown at the Labour

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constituency office in Wall`sey where Angela Eagle is the local MP.

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Angela Eagle has announced she intends running

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In the Commons, there was a point of order.

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Reports have come in that mx honourable Friend the Member

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for Wallasey, who is standing for the leadership

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of my party, has had her constituency windows broken,

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and the police have confirmdd that such an incident has taken place.

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Can we take this opportunitx to deplore such hooliganism

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and thuggery, whoever commits it and whichever party is involved

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It is totally unacceptable, and one hopes that the police

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will apprehend the culprit as quickly as possible.

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I thank the honourable gentleman for his point of order.

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It is not strictly in any procedural sense a matter for the Chair,

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but it is in one respect because, in common with all colleaguds,

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the Chair believes in democracy and the peaceful

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We are a pluralist society, and if people think that thdy will

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get their way through violence, threats and intimidation, they will

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Well on a lighter note, Foreign Office question-timd saw

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some jokey exchanges following the recent changes

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to the Labour front-bench, following mass resignations,

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and the likely coming changds to the Government front-bench

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in the light of Theresa May becoming Prime Minister.

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Mr Speaker, first of all I would like to welcome the honourable lady

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A model, I hope, of improved productivity in the UK economy.

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It is right to say that we `re compact team, but we have

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the advantage of being made up of two blessed difficult wolen,

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and so we are formidable and up for the task.

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If rumours of promotion are true, this may be my final

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session with him before he takes another job.

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It would seem that everyone is in flux.

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He has a reputation of being a formidable but approachable

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Minister to shadow, so I will be sorry if our acquaintance

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And after that came the serhous discussion about Britain's dxit

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New trading arrangements will now be needed with the countries Britain

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But setting up new trade arrangements will not

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be straightforward - specialists will be required.

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And the Foreign Secretary f`ced questions about how these

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unit, which will bring together the brightest and best

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from Whitehall and the priv`te sector, including lawyers,

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And, yes, the Government is actively seeking to recruit trade

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specialists, including approaching former civil servants

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who have retired and moved to the private sector.

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I thank the Foreign Secretary for that answer.

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Can he tell the House how mtch this is going to cost?

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What I can tell him is that in the circumstances

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in which we find ourselves, facing the opportunities th`t we now

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do, recruitment of trade spdcialists is, whatever that costs us,

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very likely to be an investlent well worth making.

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Last week in committee, Oliver Letwin stated,

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we clearly need a new cadres of highly skilled and experhenced

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I hope the Secretary of State sees the irony in the fact that the very

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best of our trade negotiators are based in Brussels.

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But can you provide assurance to the House that from now

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on we will be bringing in the best trade negotiators,

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She had in mind the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster,

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namely the right honourable gentleman, the member

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I'm not sure I recognise thd name that she mentioned.

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Thank you, Mr Speaker, I was puzzling about that

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myself, and I'm grateful for your clarification.

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Having had it, I'm very happy to answer

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As I said earlier, in response to the initial question,

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we will need to hire a signhficant numbers of trade negotiators.

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I see no reason, and I said that in the House a couple of wedks ago,

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I see no reason why we won't hire people who are non-British

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if they were the best peopld to do the job.

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Clearly, one would not want to hire the citizen of another country

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to negotiate a trade deal with that country.

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But having entered that cavdat, I would hope we would put together

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the best and most capable teams from wherever.

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The Secretary of State has rightly said that he has given assurances

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that we will consult Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland,

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London and Gibraltar on the Government's negotiation

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strategy for Brexit prior to triggering Article 50.

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Can I also therefore ask the Secretary of State,

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will those assurances also dxtend to Her Majesty's opposition?

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To ensure that the needs and concerns of the communities

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that we represent are reflected as the Government continues

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Of course, there will be extensive discussion about all of these

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The opposition, of course, will have opportunity

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to present its views, and we will listen very

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I thank the Secretary of State for that answer,

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but I was hoping to get mord assurance than that,

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that there will be formal consultation with Her Majesty's

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opposition prior to the start of the negotiations.

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Because we must avoid the mhstakes made by the outgoing Prime Linister

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before his resignation, when he made no proper consdrvation

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with opposition parties, no proper discussion took place

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and was a totally artificial timetable.

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Had the Prime Minister done those things, perhaps

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we would have got a better, more inclusive deal,

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the country might not have voted for Brexit,

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and he might not be stepping down tomorrow.

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The whole of Scotland is dedply concerned about the personal future

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of the Foreign Secretary, given his apocalyptic statelents

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For example, when he told Chatham House on the 2nd of March it

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would take longer to negoti`te than the Second World War.

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So will it take longer to ndgotiate Brexit than the Second World War,

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and how would any future Ch`ncellor of the Exchequer deal

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Mr Speaker, I think the concern is this,

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and he'll recognise this - if a future treaty

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between the United Kingdom and the European Union 27 is deemed

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to be a mixed competence, it will have to be ratified by 7

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I think I'm right in saying the shortest time in which that has

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been done in any EU treaty hs just under four years.

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That's after taking into account the time taken to negotiate.

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You're watching our roundup of the day in the Commons and the Lords.

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Still to come: What are the likely environmental

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In the end, it was a more d`mning verdict than expected.

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The Chilcot Inquiry into the Iraq War and its aftermath

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The huge report, completed by Sir John Chilcot six years later

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than originally planned, came to several powerful conclusions

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- namely that Tony Blair went ahead with the invasion of Iraq bdfore

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peaceful options had been exhausted, had exaggerated the threat

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from Saddam Hussein and had little in the way of a strategy

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The House of Lords has had ` special debate to chew over

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It would have been much easher if the former Prime Minister had

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made an open confession that he had made many, many mistakes.

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Unfortunately, he produced on the day of the report,

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having himself had no doubt access to it for some time,

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That defiance cannot be left unchallenged.

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And defiance is the only word to describe it.

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If I was back in the same place he said, with the same information,

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If that is left to stand unchallenged, Chilcott

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My Lords, I have considerable sympathy for Mr Blair in thd obloquy

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I will never believe that hd lied to the British people.

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And I accept that he was sincere in believing that military `ction

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to remove Saddam Hussein was necessary as a last resort.

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The trouble was, that he got caught in a trap.

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In which the decision whethdr or not to join the Americans in military

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action became unavoidable bdfore other means of containing

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For those who have had secrdt intelligence files put in front

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You think you're privileged to have access to this information.

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And then you need some wize heads around to say, maybe there `re some

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maybe there are some other considerations that one needs

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If I had the same information again, sitting in the same Cabinet,

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with the same content, I would have made the same decision.

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And those who say they wouldn't need to ask the question,

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what would it have been that changed their minds?

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Not hindsight, but a differdnt form of wisdom and in agreement with

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those with whom they were gdnuinely, openly disagreeing with at the time,

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That is the context, that is the information.

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Special advisors must not ever be allowed again to be given fhnal

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authority over civil servants and be able to interfere with profdssional

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Circumstances must not arisd in which the intelligence

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from untested sources is handed to ministers unassessed.

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Above all, Cabinet Government and collective responsibility must

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function if trust in Governlent is to be maintained.

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The really dodgy dossier was not the one of September 2002,

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it was the one produced in the spring of 2003 in advance

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It was based on a ten-year-old thesis of an American PhD student.

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Hardly, one might think, a compelling basis for justhfying

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actions of the kind that were in contemplation.

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For all its faults and crushing brutality, Iraq under

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It was a bulwark against Iran, with whom it had

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Since the invasion, Iraq has not become again

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Clovowicz once said that war is the continuation

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But surely war must be a final option.

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Not merely a matter of primd ministerial preference.

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To coin his own phrase, it's right that Tony Blair

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should feel the hand of history on his shoulder.

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Winston Churchill wrote, let us learn lessons.

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Never, never, believe any w`r will be smooth or easy,

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or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can mdasure

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the tides and hurricane he encounters.

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He went on, the statesman who yields to warfare must realise that once

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the signal is given, he is no longer the master

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of policy, but the slave of unforeseeable

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The environmental protections that the EU has given

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the country must not be dumped on the "Brexit bonfire".

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That was Labour's claim, as the Commons focused on one more

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aspect of Britain's withdrawal from the EU.

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Opening a Commons debate, the Shadow Energy Secretary said

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the Government must commit to passing EU regulations into UK

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law, to ensure retention of acceptable environmental st`ndards.

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Managing the risks borne of the uncertainty of the rdferendum

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outcome is a responsibility for Government.

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Ministers must urgently identify any legislative gaps in environlental

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protection that may arise from the removal of EU law,

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and develop plans to replacd any protections so that the UK does not

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become a riskier, unhealthidr or more polluted place to lhve

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Answers must be provided to the public who want to bd

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reassured that environmental protections are not to be

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weakened in some Brexit bonfire of the regulations.

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The environmental protections we have enjoyed under the ET are not

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They are part of what it is to live in a civilised country that respects

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the natural world and believes that the only prosperous future

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I don't believe that this p`rliament could go through every piecd

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of European legislation passed over the last 40 years and decidd

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whether we want to keep it or not keep it.

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The most likely outcome is dnabling legislation which involves rolling

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in everything in EU legislation into UK legislation,

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and then this Government and future governments will at leisure pick

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That is the most sensible approach, and that may mean that in some

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areas, some of the legislathon we get rid of, and in

:19:38.:19:41.

Whatever the outcome, this parliament must make stre it

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MPs have been told that Western governments need to do more

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to encourage moderate followers of Islam to embrace democratic

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principles, to ensure that they can triumph over extremists such

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as the so-called Islamic St`te group and Al Queida.

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The Foreign Affairs Committde was taking evidence

:20:05.:20:11.

They said that while Political Islam was an ideology that wished to see

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the establishment of sharia law it could take other forms.

:20:16.:20:17.

Sometimes it led to violencd, but it also produced democr`cies

:20:18.:20:20.

Our challenge is, how do we apply sustained pressure

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on Islamist movements, especially that elite within them

:20:27.:20:29.

that are westernised, that do want to be pro-Westdrn,

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that then moves towards a world order that's not confrontathonal.

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Our problem is, currently, whether it's in Jordan,

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Egypt or Syria, large chunks of the Muslim Brotherhood are not

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I've cited Tunisia, I've cited Turkey, but I'd also cite

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that there are individuals in the West who have

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undergone that journey, and rather than go towards

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jihadism, have moved towards democratic pluralisl.

:20:53.:20:54.

So it can be done, but it's incumbent,

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I think, as you highlight, that our policymakers understand

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that on a country by countrx, community by community,

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organisation by organisation, history by history basis

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of these operations, rather than adopt a blanket approach

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by saying, we're not going to be engaging with the Muslim Brotherhood

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across the board, based on just Hamas' activities.

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Because, yes, Hamas is a problem, but Tunisia has proven

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that there can be pluralism within the Brotherhood.

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We all started off by everyone saying we thought it was linked

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with sharia, or their interpretation of the sharia, what I'm tryhng

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to say is, isn't this more `bout, not religion and sharia at `ll,

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but more about political challenges, the fact

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that there are dictatorships, there are authoritarian

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countries in the Middle East, and the fact that there are a number

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of issues that the internathonal community that has ignored?

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I would love to be in compldte agreement with you, but when I look

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at the world I think, in Africa we have dictatorships.

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In China we have a dictatorship why aren't the Chinese

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We have a situation in the Middle East, yes,

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there are dictatorships, and there are dictatorships

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in other parts of the world, but people in North Korea aren't

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blowing themselves up, for all of North Korea's problems.

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We've got to accept that thdre is a reading - not the readhng

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but a reading of sharia that justifies suicide bombers

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as martyrs, and that endorses those murderers

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I have yet to read any part of the Koran that says you should

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Suicide is considered to be an immoral sin in Islam.

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Therefore to suggest that anyone is using Islam as a reason,

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as a religion to go and blow themselves up, and go and blow women

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and children and other people up, has got any link with Islam,

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that is what I was saying, is complete utter nonsense.

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I had never read a single extract suggesting that anybody

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Challenging political Islam is not simply about somebody

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going to the Koran and tellhng them, the Koran doesn't say that.

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They understand that, they're going beyond the Koran.

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Someone like a radical imam fundamentally believes that suicide

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Because it's not an issue about whether suicide is right

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It's about how do we defend ourselves against an aggressor.

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Can we use this new type of bombing?

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Mokhtar Awad, who's a research fellow in a programme on extremism

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The country's newest Member of Parliament has made her laiden

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Rosena Alinn-Khan, a doctor, won the by-election in Toothng

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in South London last month, following the departure

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The new MP spoke about her background.

:23:43.:23:49.

As a Tooting girl through and through, I never like it

:23:50.:23:53.

when people say Tooting is becoming a fantastic place to live.

:23:54.:23:56.

Anyone who has lived there `s long as I have known it has known it

:23:57.:24:00.

The wonderful, green, open spaces of Tooting Common

:24:01.:24:04.

and Wandsworth Common, the iconic Tooting market,

:24:05.:24:06.

and the Lido, open for residents of Tooting to swim outdoors

:24:07.:24:09.

There has always been a rich tapestry of communities livhng

:24:10.:24:16.

And that unity should be celebrated, and I will defend it

:24:17.:24:21.

That unity is woven into me, and a central part of who I am.

:24:22.:24:30.

When people asked me where H'm from, I say I'm half-Polish,

:24:31.:24:33.

half-Pakistani, raised in England, married a Welshman,

:24:34.:24:38.

There is a serious point in this though.

:24:39.:24:44.

In Tooting and across the country, it's a sense of common purpose.

:24:45.:24:51.

The selflessness that drives community groups and charithes

:24:52.:24:53.

Tooting's many local businesses traditional and modern, not only

:24:54.:25:00.

fuel our thriving economy, but binds us together.

:25:01.:25:04.

My son is a junior hospital doctor, and I know how hard doctors work.

:25:05.:25:08.

And for me, I would just like to say we need more scientists and doctors

:25:09.:25:12.

For that reason too, she's really welcome,

:25:13.:25:15.

David Mowat complimenting Rosina Allin-Khan.

:25:16.:25:21.

Do join me for our next round-up, which will have the highlights

:25:22.:25:26.

of David Cameron's very fin`l PMQs as Prime Minister.

:25:27.:25:30.

Until then, from me, Keith Macdougall, goodbye.

:25:31.:25:34.

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