06/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire


06/11/2015

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Hello, it's Friday, it's 9:15am. I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the

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programme. We exclusively reveal why more than

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a hundred British Uber drivers are looking to take legal action against

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The only problem is that if you are not working, you are not earning.

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And the earnings are so much lower than I expected. And it's really

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starting to bite, now. The first British holidaymakers are

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due to arrive back from Sharm But passengers will only be

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allowed to carry on hand luggage. We'll take a look at why

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security is being stepped up. And we meet the women hoping to take

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part in a trial which will result in the first womb transplants to be

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carried out here in the UK. We're on BBC Two and the BBC News

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Channel until 11am this morning. Ahead we'll bring you

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the latest from Sharm as airlines start to bring British holidaymakers

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home after flights were cancelled over fears a bomb may have caused

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a Russian plane to crash. Security has been tightened

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and hold luggage will be We are starting to hear of confusion

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at the airport as passengers wait for flights, we will keep you

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updated. We'd like to hear

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from you throughout the programme. Texts will be charged

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at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch

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the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or

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our website, bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all

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our features on the news app, by going to "add topics"

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and searching "Victoria Derbyshire." First this morning, the taxi company

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Uber is worth billions of pounds. The firm, based in the US,

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runs a smartphone app which allows users to hail a cab

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at the touch of the button. But what about the drivers? More

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than 100 richest drivers are looking to take legal action against the

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company. -- more than 100 at Icher drivers.

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The drivers are currently treated as self-employed,

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but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it.

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It's easy to lose a sense of connection living in a city...

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But when you bring people together...

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It's happening on the ground and around the world every day.

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Whatever you think of Uber, you can't say it's short of

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The tech company was founded just six years ago in San Francisco.

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It's now worth ?30 billion and growing fast.

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Uber's mission is to go to every major city in the world and roll-out

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an efficient, convenient, elegant transportation system.

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I like to think that Uber is creating

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Uber started off in London and now it's in nine or ten big

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The idea, the boss says, is to be in every single major UK

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If you haven't used it before, this is how it works.

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So you turn your smartphone on, and the first thing you see is

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And you select where you want to be picked up from,

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and then it sends it all out to other Uber drivers in the area.

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One of them can accept that and brings up a photo of

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the driver, the car, the registration plate and says how long

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Like I say, in this case, four minutes, and you just go down to the

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But in this brave new world, not everyone is happy.

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James Farrar has been an Uber driver for almost a year.

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Like all the others, he is self-employed.

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Now he's part of the group taking legal action against the company

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You know, you can switch on the app and work whenever you want, you can

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The only problem is that if you're not working, you're not earning.

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And the earnings are so much lower than I expected, and

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And you're noticing a change, are you?

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Is it now more difficult to make money now, in your mind,

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The effect is that, though, you know, there's a certain amount

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of money you need to earn each day, and you just had to stay out longer

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The main problem, says James, is the number of cars on the street.

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Since last year, the number of British drivers Uber's books has

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At the same time, Uber has cut the fares that customers pay

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and next week will increase the commission it takes from new

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My average net in July was ?5.03 and hour, well below minimum wage.

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So if you want to cover your costs and keep the family afloat,

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But, at the end of the day, it's your choice, right?

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I mean, you don't have to work for Uber.

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You could work for someone else, get another job.

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Yeah, it's true, but Uber has still aggressively come

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into the market, I think those opportunities to work for other

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James and the other drivers involved in the legal action say the way Uber

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operates means they're not really self-employed entrepreneurs at all,

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but working for the company, and so should get

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Lawyers say more than 100 Uber drivers, backed by the GMB union,

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are now looking to take similar action, with the first case is

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What we want to do is make sure that these drivers get workers rights,

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so it's the rights that anybody who works is entitled to.

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And were talking about things like minimum wage, the right to

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A lot of these drivers work 50, 60, 70 hours per week.

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They should be entitled to paid time off for doing that work.

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It's great that these new technology companies exist, butt all we're

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asking is that they treat people who work for them in the same way that

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At the centre of this row is the relationship between Uber

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We've been passed copies of the contracts which drivers now have

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to sign, and what is interesting is if you compare the contracts these

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days from the earlier ones from a couple of years ago, so

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Now the new contracts are at pains to point out there is no

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partnership between both sides and, in fact, rather confusingly, drivers

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These documents also set out the terms under

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which a driver can be deactivated from the system, as they put it.

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So you're no longer sacked under this arrangement,

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And that includes things like dropping below a certain star

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rating, as set by the people in the back of your car, and also here

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if you say anything that may cause harm to Uber's brand, reputation or

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business, so presumably that means if a driver says anything

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disparaging about the company, under these terms and conditions they can

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Being able to log on and log off as I please.

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It is only a small number taking legal action

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and there will, of course, be many happy Uber drivers, as company

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You can't work whenever you want. The money is going directly into my

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account. At Uber's new headquarters in London skyscraper, the boss says

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this way of working is about choice. Many of our drivers have moved from

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traditional jobs where they had to work described shifts and a certain

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number of hours a week and it was difficult to take time off, they

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have chosen to work with Uber because about flexibility. The fact

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you can work literally whenever you want, that is the flexibility they

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are looking for. But can't you have that and have write like holiday pay

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and the minimum wage? Looking at what drivers take home is something

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we look at very carefully. Most of the drivers using the Apple actually

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take home around ?15 or ?16 an hour. BC their costs vary hugely depending

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on whether they rent or own and a number of other factors, but the

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majority are making around ?10 or ?12 an hour after those costs. It is

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an injustice, and injustice would Uber is doing to you. But this is

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not the first anger about Uber and the way it works. There have been

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small-scale demonstrations in the US. Last month there was a strike by

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drivers that overpay. It would appear the impact was limited.

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In this country, it is not easy to get a sense of how many drivers are

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unhappy, but we tried anyway with a small unscientific test. Can I get

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in the front, is that OK? Over one afternoon, we took five short Uber

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rides across London as normal passengers. We asked each of the

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drivers about the company, their job and the money they were taking home.

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We are not pretending it was scientific, that of the drivers we

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spoke to, two said they liked the flexibility of Uber and had no real

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concerns. One said he was very happy with the arrangement, with no

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downside, really. Another said the only reason his old colleagues are

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not signing up is because they would have to start paying tax. But two of

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the drivers we spoke to were worried about income is being squeezed. One

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said it is harder to make money because there are too many drivers

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that are. And from another, it is about time Uber took responsibility

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like a proper empire. Is there a danger that Uber is a

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company that wants to have its cake and eat it? You want to treat these

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drivers are self-employed entrepreneurs, that on the other

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hand tell them exactly what to do. Uber drivers are free to work

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whenever and wherever they want. So long as they live up to the quality

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standards on the platform. I don't know of any of the opportunities

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that are so flexible. So the future of transportation, maybe. But this

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row is bigger than that. Some people think the way Uber does business

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could be a model not just for cab companies bid for the rest of the

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economy. And if this happens, this one firm could change far more than

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the way we get home on a wet Friday night.

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You can watch and share Jim Reed's exclusive investigation

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by going to our programme page - that's at bbc.co.uk/Victoria.

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Comments coming in from you on this. An anonymous text says, as a

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taxi driver for 15 years in Leeds, all I have seen is more taxis older

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than all others. They undercut everyone by offering discounts and

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subsequently work has gone down overall by nearly 50%, and this for

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a 20% commission. Nate on Facebook, if they are complaining about

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conditions, how rubbish their cars? Another person says they have

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friends in the USA who almost lost everything because of Uber.

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We'll have the latest on the security crisis at Sharm

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el-Sheikh Airport where stranded Brits are preparing to fly home.

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And we'll meet three women hoping to benefit from pioneering womb

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transplant surgery to give them a chance of having children.

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More details are emerging about the reasons behind the Government's

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decision to restrict flights to Sharm el-Sheikh following the

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It's understood British investigators believe an explosive

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device was place in the hold of the aircraft some time before take-off.

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The Government is said to have received new information

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on Wednesday, based on so-called chatter picked up

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Thousands of British tourists stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh will be

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flown home today, two days after flights to and from the resort were

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Scheduled flights remain suspended but planes are being laid on

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especially. Passengers will only be allowed to

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take hand luggage on board, with the Government arranging to

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take the rest Obviously were faced with a

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situation where we had serious concerns about the incident as far

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as the Russian plane last Saturday was concerned. We wanted to put in

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place to get as many people back as quickly as we could in light with

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the fact that yesterday was a big changeover day. There should have

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been around 15 flights yesterday, which were all cancelled. It was a

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matter of how do we give it in the safest way to reassure ourselves,

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and for the safety of those passengers, that we put these

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particular restrictions into operation. There is some confusion,

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it seems, at Sharm el-Sheikh. We have been speaking to one passenger

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who is due to be on the easyJet flight to Gatwick from Sharm

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el-Sheikh, due to leave at 11am local time, nine o'clock our time,

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should have already left. He has been told he will not get away until

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7pm local time, 5pm our time, and even that is not certain. He still

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has his luggage with him. That is one passenger who was due to go on

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the easyJet flight, due to be the first flight out today. It seems it

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has been delayed. We are trying to get into it with easyJet and will

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keep you updated. -- trying to get into virtual is easyJet.

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Lawyers say that more than 100 British drivers for the high-tech

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taxi company Uber are looking to take legal action against it.

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The firm, based in the US, runs a smartphone app

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which allows users to hail a cab at the touch of the button.

:13:56.:13:58.

The drivers are currently treated as self-employed,

:13:59.:14:00.

but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it.

:14:01.:14:03.

The personal details of more than 150,000 customers and more than

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15,000 bank details were accessed by hackers in last month's cyber

:14:06.:14:08.

The telecoms company insists the information accessed can't,

:14:09.:14:14.

Universities in England who prove they offer high-quality

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teaching could be allowed to raise tuition fees above ?9,000

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Universities Minister Jo Johnson says students should have better

:14:23.:14:27.

Sir Cliff Richard has been interviewed for a second time

:14:28.:14:33.

by police investigating alleged sexual assaults three decades ago.

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A spokesman for the singer confirmed he has been interviewed voluntarily

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He was not arrested or charged, and he continues to describe the claims

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Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

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It's all about the magic of the Cup today, Hugh.

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Good morning. The magic of the cup this weekend. First round proper. I

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will be talking to one of written's newest reality TV stars.

:15:07.:15:10.

You may have seen the documentary Class of '92 - Out of their League

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It chronicles the takeover of Salford City Football Club

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by former Manchester United stars Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt

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They've managed to turn the club's fortunes around, and get promotion,

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as they try to achieve the dream of becoming a Football League Club.

:15:24.:15:26.

And tonight they'll have an historic first ever appearance in the first

:15:27.:15:29.

They have a very tough task playing Notts County who are three

:15:30.:15:33.

But we'll be talking to star striker Gareth Seddon about what it's been

:15:34.:15:37.

like being on the show, the added pressure that comes from all the new

:15:38.:15:41.

media attention and what it's been like to have the Class of '92

:15:42.:15:44.

watching his every move, both on and off the field.

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Competition for me today! Join us at just after 10am.

:15:47.:15:59.

Thousands of tourists are hoping to come home from Sharm el-Sheikh

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later today, with airlines expected to run special flights

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EasyJet says nine flights could operate,

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The Foreign Office said it hoped the flights would go ahead, but security

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There is some confusion at Sharm el-Sheikh about what time the

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flights are likely to take off. Yesterday,

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the Prime Minister says it's more likely than not that a terrorist

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bomb brought down a Russian airliner Investigators

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in Britain's security service suspect someone with access to

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the aircraft's baggage compartment inserted an explosive device

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inside or on top of the luggage just That comes from intercepted

:16:37.:16:38.

communications between militants in the Sinai where

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the plane came down. But Egypt says that's

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just propaganda. But the British Government has put

:16:54.:16:54.

in place extra safety measures which means British tourists will be

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flying back with only hand luggage. Larger luggage that would normally

:16:58.:17:00.

be checked into the hold of a plane The Transport Secretary,

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Patrick McLoughlin, explained why these extra security

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measures had been imposed. We were faced with a situation where

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we had serious concerns about the incident as far as the Russian plane

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last Saturday was concerned and we wanted to put in place to get as

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many people back as quickly as we could in line with the fact that

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yesterday was a big changeover day. There should have been around 15

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flights yesterday which were all cancelled. It was a matter of, how

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do we do it in the safest way to real -- to reassure ourselves that

:17:38.:17:44.

we put particular restrictions into operation?

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Other countries share Britain's concerns.

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We have spent a lot of time making sure our own investigators and

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intelligence community figures out what is going on before we make any

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definitive pronouncements. It is certainly possible there was a bomb

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on board. Alastair Rosenschein is a former

:18:06.:18:11.

British Airways pilot. Thank you for coming in. Is it always obvious to

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pilots when security is not up to scratch? Yes. The pilots and cabin

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crew go through the same security checks as the passengers. We go to

:18:22.:18:26.

many airports around the world on a regular basis. You notice when

:18:27.:18:30.

security is not as tight in some places as in another. When you fly

:18:31.:18:34.

to certain destinations where you know there is a history of terrorist

:18:35.:18:39.

attacks or you know there is insurgency and political differences

:18:40.:18:45.

or religious ones, you are a little bit more aware of the security. In

:18:46.:18:51.

this case, Sharm el-Sheikh, it is not that far from a major conflict

:18:52.:18:56.

zone and there have been attacks there before. Ten years previously.

:18:57.:19:01.

Would you feel nervous as a pilot going in and out of airports where

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security is not up to scratch? No, nervous is not the word I would use,

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alert is a better description. You look at the people around the

:19:12.:19:15.

aircraft, you look at baggage lying around. We are doing the same as

:19:16.:19:19.

what passengers would do, pay more attention to everything around you

:19:20.:19:24.

from a security point of view. In the end, everyone is in the hands of

:19:25.:19:29.

the people in charge of security? Absolutely. We still employing

:19:30.:19:33.

people in security, not just in this country, around the, on what is

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effectively a minimum wage. -- around the world. You pay people

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very little and you will get that standard. I am not saying all

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security staff of pork, most are very good. But you also have to

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recognise in some countries where they play considerably more, where

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they recruit from a higher level of academic background, you get better

:19:59.:20:01.

is curative -- I am not saying all security staff are poor. You get

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better security. The job has changed a great deal from when I started in

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the 70s until when I retired in 2005. I was airborne in the 9/11

:20:15.:20:22.

incident, coming back from Tokyo. After that, everything changed

:20:23.:20:25.

dramatically. At that point, security became a really significant

:20:26.:20:34.

part of the job. Not least you can no longer have visitors on the

:20:35.:20:38.

flight deck, we restrict visits to the cabin, the door is locked. It

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focuses your mind on security. Is it something discussed among the people

:20:46.:20:50.

working on the plane? Yes. In what way? How you might deal with it. In

:20:51.:20:57.

the past, instructions went out to flight crew to always do what a

:20:58.:21:04.

hijacker says, be compliant. After 9/11, everything changed. In the

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end, there is nothing that a pilot can do if you are feeling concerned

:21:11.:21:14.

when you are going through security and you get on the plane and you

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have been nervous and you know somewhere has got a record of their

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being security issues? I cannot say I was ever nervous from a security

:21:24.:21:27.

point of view, as you said. Slightly more alert. If we thought at any

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time that our aircraft was not fully safe and secure, of course we would

:21:34.:21:38.

do something about it. We are not in a position to make those security

:21:39.:21:42.

judgment calls. It would not be clear to the pilot about what is

:21:43.:21:48.

going on? Not at all. I will tell you a funny story. Shortly after

:21:49.:21:53.

9/11, I was on my way to New York and I boarded the aircraft and as we

:21:54.:21:56.

walked through the upper deck, there were a number of gentlemen wearing

:21:57.:22:01.

the same sort of clothes you might associate with the Taliban in

:22:02.:22:05.

Afghanistan. We got into the flight deck and I turned to my colleague

:22:06.:22:08.

and I said, what do you think the group... ? He said, they look dodgy.

:22:09.:22:15.

I said, I will go back and have a chat with them. I tried to think

:22:16.:22:19.

what I might say to them going back and I came up with something. I

:22:20.:22:25.

said, we are very lucky to have nice seats appear. Are you going on

:22:26.:22:30.

holiday or business? -- up here. In perfect English, we are a group of

:22:31.:22:36.

consultant doctors going to a medical conference. My prejudice is

:22:37.:22:40.

out the window! You are talking about the prejudices that came in

:22:41.:22:44.

and the jitteriness that came in. Would you expect people working on

:22:45.:22:48.

the flights to be more jittery after what has happened now? After any

:22:49.:22:54.

incident, people are more alert. They are more concerned about it.

:22:55.:22:58.

After a little while, a few months go by, they become complacent again.

:22:59.:23:03.

It is dangerous. Both in terms of security staff, airline crews, and

:23:04.:23:09.

the travelling public. We cannot afford in this day and age to be

:23:10.:23:13.

complacent about any security issues. You remind me of what it

:23:14.:23:18.

used to be like in London, it has happened over the years, high alert

:23:19.:23:26.

over abandoned rides. Is that the sort of thing you are talking about?

:23:27.:23:31.

-- bags. Are there things people should not be complacent about? You

:23:32.:23:35.

are right. The sort of thing is the travelling public should look out

:23:36.:23:40.

for our unattended bags, leaving your own bag unattended. You must

:23:41.:23:44.

pack your bag yourself and take it with you and it must be next to you

:23:45.:23:52.

at all times. If it is not with you, there is a security implication.

:23:53.:23:56.

Somebody can get access to it. We know from a previous incident at

:23:57.:24:02.

Heathrow Airport that an Irish woman's boyfriend who in fact was a

:24:03.:24:06.

Middle Eastern terrorist placed a bomb in her bag and she was pregnant

:24:07.:24:12.

as well with his child. The security at Heathrow which is very good

:24:13.:24:16.

spotted this and avoided an absolute catastrophe. Once the baggage goes

:24:17.:24:24.

through the checks, it goes through various procedures and gets on the

:24:25.:24:27.

flight, from what you know of the way it works, can you see an obvious

:24:28.:24:32.

point at which a bomb could be put on and not be detected? There are

:24:33.:24:36.

some focus on the cargo which is more commonly flown on passenger

:24:37.:24:41.

planes than perhaps it used to be. Airlines make money from carrying

:24:42.:24:45.

passengers and bags and also cargo and that makes up a very important

:24:46.:24:50.

part of the revenue stream. But there are certain checks done on

:24:51.:24:55.

cargo and I cannot really go into them. What I know about it is that

:24:56.:24:59.

there security checks done it. The real weak link of the personnel. Who

:25:00.:25:06.

is allowed air side, the other side of security? Our work is going

:25:07.:25:11.

through the same security checks as they come to work as the travelling

:25:12.:25:17.

passengers and flight crew? I can say with absolute certainty that

:25:18.:25:21.

many airfields in the world, this is not happening, they are not taking

:25:22.:25:25.

it seriously with regular staff. What background checks are done on

:25:26.:25:29.

the staff? Airline security is as safe as the weakest airport that it

:25:30.:25:34.

flies to around the world. That is an issue. It is impossible to get

:25:35.:25:40.

complete security. Everybody in the industry knows this. You try to do

:25:41.:25:45.

the best you can. The best you can is not always being done at all

:25:46.:25:49.

destinations. Some of those passengers stranded have been

:25:50.:25:52.

talking about how they are feeling a bit nervous about the prospect of

:25:53.:25:56.

coming back. Would you expect that to translate to everybody on the

:25:57.:26:01.

plane 's? I am sure I would feel nervous if I was in Sharm el-Sheikh

:26:02.:26:05.

right now. The focus now is on security, no bags going on board the

:26:06.:26:09.

aircraft. I can assure you that they are probably safer than any other

:26:10.:26:14.

place that any of the airlines fly to at the moment. Sharm el-Sheikh

:26:15.:26:18.

will be safe right now, no chance will be taken. There will be greater

:26:19.:26:24.

focus. After any incident, everybody becomes more alert, more aware,

:26:25.:26:29.

takes their job more seriously as far as security is concerned. After

:26:30.:26:33.

a period of time is concerned, the complacency comes back. Ten years

:26:34.:26:36.

since the major terrorist incident at Sharm el-Sheikh were several

:26:37.:26:43.

bombs killed quite a few people. Security changes are made, liquids

:26:44.:26:49.

have been banned on flights, since 9/11. That is still in force. It is

:26:50.:26:56.

a dramatic measure to say that passengers cannot take their hold

:26:57.:27:03.

luggage on the plane. If they cannot be sure of security, how long might

:27:04.:27:09.

that situation in Jura? We are talking explosives, they come in

:27:10.:27:13.

different forms, solids, malleable, liquids -- in duration. That is why

:27:14.:27:21.

they have a ban on liquids, only small quantities allowed on board.

:27:22.:27:26.

There were previous incidents or likely to be incidents. We had the

:27:27.:27:31.

shoe bomber, a bomb in his shoe, he was so incompetent that he was

:27:32.:27:34.

unable to detonate it, thank goodness. One has to try and be as

:27:35.:27:41.

secure as possible. And still allow people to continue living normally

:27:42.:27:47.

in an open society which is what we live in, and open society. The

:27:48.:27:52.

enemies of an open society create the problem, people who do not like

:27:53.:27:55.

the way we live, our freedom of speech, way of life, they want to

:27:56.:28:00.

change it. If we increase security to a certain point, we will no

:28:01.:28:04.

longer live in an open society, we will live in a closed one where

:28:05.:28:08.

people no longer have freedom of speech and movement. There is a risk

:28:09.:28:12.

and we take that risk and we accept the risk. Alastair Rosenschein,

:28:13.:28:14.

thank you very much. Coming up... A gay clergyman

:28:15.:28:25.

prevented from coming a hospital chaplain tells us how disappointed

:28:26.:28:26.

he is to lose a discrimination case. More than 500 women say they want to

:28:27.:28:32.

take part in a trial which will see the first ever womb transplants

:28:33.:28:36.

carried out here in the UK. Doctors were given

:28:37.:28:39.

the go-head just over four weeks ago to perform the first ten operations

:28:40.:28:41.

following success in Sweden. In a moment, we'll talk to three

:28:42.:28:43.

women who are all hoping to be the some of the first in

:28:44.:28:47.

the country to have the procedure. Here with us are three women hoping

:28:48.:29:43.

to be some of the first Lauren Fowler and Sophie Lewis were

:29:44.:29:46.

both born without a womb and Rachel Edmonds had a hysterectomy

:29:47.:29:51.

nearly ninA years ago because her It's the first time they've

:29:52.:29:54.

all met each other. Also here is Richard Smith,

:29:55.:30:01.

a consultant gynaecologist at the Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea

:30:02.:30:03.

Hospital in London who has been Thank you all for coming in. Good to

:30:04.:30:19.

have you here. Lauren and Sophie, I said you were born without a womb,

:30:20.:30:22.

tell us when you first knew that that was the case? I was 15, a month

:30:23.:30:30.

off my 16th birthday. I went to the GP surgery and they referred me for

:30:31.:30:34.

investigated surgery, because ultrasounds had shown up nothing

:30:35.:30:39.

conclusive. When I had those procedures they found I had a

:30:40.:30:44.

syndrome which meant I was born without the womb. How did you feel?

:30:45.:30:49.

Devastated. Even though I was 15, it pulled my world apart at the time. I

:30:50.:30:56.

knew what it meant. I knew what the future was going to, basically,

:30:57.:31:02.

holding some shape or form. Sophie? Similar story, I was 16, I didn't

:31:03.:31:08.

have my period, so my mum took me to the doctors. After ultrasounds as

:31:09.:31:13.

well, laparoscopy, it transpired I had no womb. And the same sort of

:31:14.:31:18.

feeling. Obviously at the age of 16 you are not really thinking about a

:31:19.:31:22.

family so much as doing your GCSEs and having fun with your friends,

:31:23.:31:26.

but it is the realisation that it will be difficult to have children

:31:27.:31:30.

in the future. Shock outburst, upset, then you deal with it. As you

:31:31.:31:35.

get older, it is more of a realisation that it will be

:31:36.:31:39.

difficult. Rachel, you are in a slightly different position in that

:31:40.:31:44.

you have no womb as the result of a hysterectomy. What happened? From my

:31:45.:31:49.

very first period I was in excruciating pain, I struggled for

:31:50.:31:53.

all might teenage years, and in my 20s it got so much worse. I had

:31:54.:31:58.

multiple laparoscopy is which bound endometriosis. That was not the main

:31:59.:32:05.

problem, I had multiple fibroids and endometrial cis within the actual

:32:06.:32:10.

body of the womb. I had a real issue with the womb to the point that I

:32:11.:32:13.

could not get out of bed because the pain was so bad, I had a hot water

:32:14.:32:19.

bottle strapped to me every day for years, constant painkillers, it was

:32:20.:32:23.

excruciating. My surgeon worked with me and we try to find everything we

:32:24.:32:28.

possibly could to help you, and nothing worked, so a 206I had to

:32:29.:32:31.

make the heartbreaking decision that I could not live like this any more,

:32:32.:32:36.

I had to have it removed. -- so at the age of 26. Knowing I would never

:32:37.:32:41.

be able to have my own child. But at that point I did not have a life, I

:32:42.:32:47.

could not get out of bed, the pain was so unbearable. Now the pain has

:32:48.:32:50.

gone, you can focus on what it has meant in the long run? It is so hard

:32:51.:32:56.

to remember the pain, I'd like that part of my life out, you don't want

:32:57.:33:02.

to remember pain, so I had days when I think, do they do the right

:33:03.:33:06.

thing? -- I blanked that part of my life out. But friends and family

:33:07.:33:10.

reminds me of how bad it was, so I know I made the right decision, that

:33:11.:33:14.

I have just got married and you think the next logical step is to

:33:15.:33:18.

have the family, that is not an option for me until, maybe, now.

:33:19.:33:23.

Here is the man who might be able to change things for you and other.

:33:24.:33:27.

Richard, you have worked done this for 19 years, and the go-ahead has

:33:28.:33:33.

finally been given. Talk us through? We have a big team of people. A few

:33:34.:33:38.

weeks ago we got ethics committee approval, we need to go through a

:33:39.:33:42.

process of selection now, and we have a separate committee for that.

:33:43.:33:46.

So that we select appropriate patients. The three people here this

:33:47.:33:55.

morning very much epitomise the tragic stories, really, of the

:33:56.:33:58.

bigger group of people who have come to us. How many have come to you? We

:33:59.:34:05.

had over 200 people on our list month ago, since we made the

:34:06.:34:09.

announcement about the ethics committee approval, it is over 500.

:34:10.:34:14.

So lots of women on the list. How many will you take forward? In this

:34:15.:34:20.

first series, we have ethics committee approval to perform ten

:34:21.:34:24.

transplants, we expect to do that over two years, hoping to start next

:34:25.:34:30.

year. Who will you choose? -- how would you choose? Everybody has a

:34:31.:34:33.

heartbreaking story. Absolutely right. Partly because of that... I

:34:34.:34:40.

have met many, many women in my clinic at Charing Cross, and the

:34:41.:34:44.

selection process, it is impossible for somebody like me who meets

:34:45.:34:49.

everybody to be the arbiter. We have actually followed very much the

:34:50.:34:53.

Swedish model that they used, they had a stratification process, and we

:34:54.:34:56.

have a separate committee which has lay members and nursing members, as

:34:57.:35:04.

well as medical, that'll be part of the process. What have you freed in

:35:05.:35:09.

so far in terms of being part of the process, and how much you are aware

:35:10.:35:14.

of what is required? When I first found out I made contact. A

:35:15.:35:19.

gentleman replied asking me questions about my background, that

:35:20.:35:22.

was the first initial process, and more recently there has been a much

:35:23.:35:27.

more in-depth questionnaire, medical questionnaire, that is as far as it

:35:28.:35:30.

has gone at this point in time. Sophie? Miners is a random story. I

:35:31.:35:38.

wanted to run the London Marathon, but I wanted to run for a charity

:35:39.:35:44.

that meant something to me, so I contacted so many adoption,

:35:45.:35:49.

surrogacy, IVF charities and I sort of just stumbled across the

:35:50.:35:52.

hospital. I registered my interest and they said, unfortunately we can

:35:53.:35:59.

provide... Sponsor you, but you could run for hours. At the time

:36:00.:36:03.

they said, do you want to chat about your condition, there is something

:36:04.:36:08.

we want to talk to you about. I put it for quite a few months, I was not

:36:09.:36:12.

sure if I wanted to speak about condition. I plucked up courage,

:36:13.:36:19.

went and had a chat, found out all transplants and I knew instantly

:36:20.:36:22.

this was something I was really, really interested in. Had you

:36:23.:36:26.

previously been contemplating adoption surrogacy? They are your

:36:27.:36:32.

next steps. If you want children, you go down the surrogacy or

:36:33.:36:36.

adoption route. I would still not rule that out. If I don't get picked

:36:37.:36:39.

for the transplant I would go down those avenues. They are worthwhile

:36:40.:36:44.

ways of doing it. It is just that this is more appealing, to be able

:36:45.:36:49.

to carry your own child is a huge gift for a woman. To be able to do

:36:50.:36:55.

that would be incredible. Lauren, when you heard about the womb

:36:56.:36:58.

transplants, what did you think about the possibility of carrying

:36:59.:37:03.

your own child? It was amazing. It felt surreal. I have followed it

:37:04.:37:09.

since I was about 15, I had heard of it, they had been trying it in

:37:10.:37:13.

Turkey, I think. I had followed the once done in Sweden for a long time

:37:14.:37:17.

and seen their failures, and obviously we have seen their great

:37:18.:37:23.

success. So I was very aware. But, like Sophie, I had been following

:37:24.:37:26.

surrogacy and done a lot of research on it. But to know that there is a

:37:27.:37:32.

chance that can child bear ourselves, it overrules every

:37:33.:37:35.

option. It is not an easy option, Richard. Talk us through how this

:37:36.:37:40.

procedure will work and how difficult it will be, not just for

:37:41.:37:45.

the surgeons but the women having the transplant? The process will

:37:46.:37:50.

start, the selected group will be on the list and they will need to be

:37:51.:37:55.

available over a 1 to two year period to be called when appropriate

:37:56.:38:00.

organs become available. So what amount of notice could that be? At

:38:01.:38:04.

the point where it happens will probably be 24 hours. So people will

:38:05.:38:09.

either carry a pager or be available by phone, they will get that call,

:38:10.:38:14.

and at that point they will have 24 hours to get to the place where the

:38:15.:38:18.

plantation will take place. We are intending to retrieve the organs

:38:19.:38:27.

from heart beating, brain dead donors, which is different from the

:38:28.:38:31.

Swedish, for used breathing donors, but the process is the same. They

:38:32.:38:36.

expect to take you know suppressive therapy and be rejected -- and be

:38:37.:38:42.

observed for year for signs of rejection. If everything is going

:38:43.:38:46.

well, and embryo transfer will take place. Everyone will have to have

:38:47.:38:50.

had a minimum number of embryos derived from their own eggs, stored

:38:51.:38:55.

in cold storage before they go through the transplantation process.

:38:56.:38:59.

Then they will have the embryo transfer, and hopefully

:39:00.:39:03.

approximately nine months later a Caesarean section. They'd be

:39:04.:39:08.

delivered. Then six months after that they will have a choice of

:39:09.:39:11.

whether to have one more child oughta have a completion his threat

:39:12.:39:16.

me. The reason for the completion hysterectomy is to minimise the

:39:17.:39:21.

exposer to Unison and therapy. There will be for two to three years, or

:39:22.:39:26.

maybe four or five, rather than other organs, where it is lifelong

:39:27.:39:33.

exposure. It sounds gruelling. Why are you prepared to put yourself

:39:34.:39:36.

through something like that for the ability to be able to carry your own

:39:37.:39:44.

child? How important is it for you? This has given us hope, we never had

:39:45.:39:48.

that before. This is huge. I feel like you become a mum when you start

:39:49.:39:53.

to try to conceive, you do all the right things to make your body

:39:54.:39:57.

prepare for pregnancy and everything, that is when you become

:39:58.:40:02.

a mum. To carry my own child means the world to me. Compared to the

:40:03.:40:05.

surgery I have had already, I am not fazed by this at all. I will do

:40:06.:40:10.

everything to care for that child from in utero, and to be a mum. You

:40:11.:40:15.

have already said how much it would mean to you, Sophie? To feel a child

:40:16.:40:19.

growing inside you, watching your body change shape, that is all part

:40:20.:40:25.

of the pregnancy. Just to create the bond with a child. I don't think

:40:26.:40:31.

words can explain it, it is a huge gift. From being told that the age

:40:32.:40:35.

of 16 that your roots are surrogacy and adoption, two, ten or 15 years

:40:36.:40:42.

down the line, being told there is a possibility you can carry your own

:40:43.:40:45.

child, it is incredible, there are no words. Richard, we have a

:40:46.:40:53.

question from Doctor Gill on Twitter, will female babies from

:40:54.:40:58.

womb transplants be more likely to inherit the same conditions? That is

:40:59.:41:02.

a very good question. There is no evidence for that. Obviously there

:41:03.:41:07.

is a lot updated through surrogacy from women who have had this

:41:08.:41:12.

syndrome, it is not the suggestion at all. What about the unions and

:41:13.:41:20.

drugs and how they might impact? There is a vast experience of

:41:21.:41:24.

immunosuppressant drugs in real and -- renal transplant patients, tens

:41:25.:41:28.

of thousands of women who have had kidney transplants have gone on to

:41:29.:41:32.

have babies, the excess risk to babies is less the 1%, it is very

:41:33.:41:38.

minimal. It is a commonly asked question, there is the perception

:41:39.:41:42.

that it is high risk, but that is untrue, it is only a slight

:41:43.:41:46.

increase. This has been 19 years of your life, how do you feel about it.

:41:47.:41:52.

You are sitting here with Lauren, Sophie and Rachel, three people for

:41:53.:41:54.

whom the work you are doing could change their world. Humbled, I had

:41:55.:42:01.

to say, is how I feel. You guys are all very, very brave to be here this

:42:02.:42:05.

morning. The whole process we are going through, I know, is very

:42:06.:42:12.

fraught, for all of us. Lauren, how do you feel at the start,

:42:13.:42:17.

potentially, of what will be a difficult journey for those

:42:18.:42:21.

embarking on at about what it will entail and whether you really could

:42:22.:42:26.

be up for that? I am excited. This will change not only, possibly, mine

:42:27.:42:31.

and these two lovely ladies' lives, but for many women in the country,

:42:32.:42:36.

hopefully, one day. The hope of the dream coming true, the final stage

:42:37.:42:42.

of it, it outweighs all the negatives and the worry that come

:42:43.:42:47.

along with it. But maybe the blob watching who might be thinking, as

:42:48.:42:51.

we have already discussed, surrogacy and adoption are options. -- maybe

:42:52.:42:57.

people are watching. You would be putting yourself through a very

:42:58.:43:01.

difficult surgery and a very difficult period of time for

:43:02.:43:04.

something that is not a life-threatening condition. What

:43:05.:43:09.

would you say to those people? I don't think they can make a

:43:10.:43:13.

judgment. People make judgments on it, they say, you're putting

:43:14.:43:17.

yourself at risk, but until you have been in our shoes you will never

:43:18.:43:22.

know the need or the want to child by yourself. Surrogacy itself is not

:43:23.:43:27.

easy. It is a long, long path, just like adoption, and it comes at a

:43:28.:43:31.

very high cost. You have got the whole legal side of it and there is

:43:32.:43:34.

a risk that, at the end, the surrogates can keep that child.

:43:35.:43:40.

There is a risk that that moment, the Sara get mum, can actually say,

:43:41.:43:46.

due know what, I want this baby. -- the surrogates mum. Is the desire to

:43:47.:43:49.

carry a child always in your mind, Rachel? Yes, it has been there ever

:43:50.:43:56.

since I made the decision, which I had to make myself, which meant I

:43:57.:44:00.

cannot do that. It was so gut-wrenching. Especially since I

:44:01.:44:04.

got married. I am asked on a daily basis, when would you have kids? I

:44:05.:44:09.

Facebook page started advertising hits' clothes as soon as I changed

:44:10.:44:14.

my status to married. Everyday I am reminded I cannot have a child. How

:44:15.:44:18.

are your families about the situation? There must be

:44:19.:44:21.

difficulties for them and sensitivities? Obviously, for my

:44:22.:44:29.

mum, and probably their mums, it is difficult to see your child has to

:44:30.:44:34.

go through that. There is always the fear, it is a huge operation, will

:44:35.:44:40.

it all be OK? My family, personally, has been amazingly supportive. My

:44:41.:44:45.

fiance has been there for me through the whole process. I think that

:44:46.:44:50.

supports keeps you going. It is amazing. Friends and family, my

:44:51.:44:54.

friends have been overwhelming, the amount of support they have given

:44:55.:44:59.

me. Richard, just tell us when you will know for, and when the people

:45:00.:45:06.

involved will know? Sometime early next year. One of the biggest blocks

:45:07.:45:11.

at the moment is funding, it is important to say that we are not

:45:12.:45:16.

intending in anyway to impact on NHS resource, which likely follows on,

:45:17.:45:23.

which is why we have eight charity, Womb Transplants Uk, which is paying

:45:24.:45:28.

the entirety of the cost of the first ten cases. You're probably

:45:29.:45:34.

talking 2020 by the time that series is finished, hopefully many of those

:45:35.:45:38.

women will have had babies. Beyond that, funding is much harder to

:45:39.:45:42.

ascertain. I have a dream that the charity may end up raising enough

:45:43.:45:48.

money to pay for many, many more, but we do not know. We will be

:45:49.:45:52.

following everything you do, thank you all very much for coming in.

:45:53.:45:54.

Good luck with everything. Some breaking news. Rescue flights

:45:55.:46:11.

for we had heard from one passenger who was due to fly out on the first

:46:12.:46:17.

easyJet flight which was going to leave an hour ago, it was not

:46:18.:46:22.

happening, and now we are hearing flights have been suspended. Stay

:46:23.:46:25.

with us for the very latest updates. We will have the latest from Sharm

:46:26.:46:30.

el-Sheikh with thousands of British tourists still waiting to fly home.

:46:31.:46:36.

Now let us get the very latest weather. Some incredible pictures.

:46:37.:46:44.

Some spectacular clouds spotted over the past 24 hours. In Sydney, we

:46:45.:46:51.

have had huge clouds over the past 24 hours, shelf clouds, produced

:46:52.:47:00.

under powerful storms. The outflow kicks out huge clouds. Spectacular

:47:01.:47:04.

sight. The cloud rolling in. This is as it is? It is speeded up.

:47:05.:47:15.

Making it more dramatic. Some people have described it as a cloud

:47:16.:47:22.

tsunami. Rolling out underneath the huge storm. Very spectacular. How

:47:23.:47:29.

unusual is it? Fairly unusual to see such a spectacular shelf cloud. What

:47:30.:47:33.

is not unusual is very powerful store is in Sydney, late spring,

:47:34.:47:40.

early summer. They are formed by updraughts and downdraughts within

:47:41.:47:44.

the cumulative this clouds and we get big drafts of air coming

:47:45.:47:48.

underneath spilling out and hitting the ground and it scoops up the warm

:47:49.:47:53.

up air and that rises up above the cooler air and condenses quickly. We

:47:54.:47:59.

get the spectacular shelf cloud forming. They can be indicative of

:48:00.:48:04.

powerful winds. Very dangerous as well as spectacular to watch. What

:48:05.:48:10.

is the weather in store for us? Much quieter. A lot of rain on the cards.

:48:11.:48:17.

So bored of that! There is a lot of cloud across the

:48:18.:48:22.

country. Outbreaks of patchy rain working west to east today. Some

:48:23.:48:27.

will be heavy across parts of the South of England and northern

:48:28.:48:31.

Scotland. But some bright intervals. It will not be raining all day. By

:48:32.:48:36.

3pm, we are expecting quite a lot of mist and Merc in the south-west of

:48:37.:48:41.

England and Wales. It will be mild wherever you are. As we cross the

:48:42.:48:49.

Irish Sea, a little bit more in the way of brightness across Northern

:48:50.:48:54.

Ireland. Scotland, we will continue to see the cloud increase this

:48:55.:48:59.

afternoon. Outbreaks of rain. It will be mild and breezy. Feeling

:49:00.:49:05.

blustery at times. Some rain for parts of northern England. Further

:49:06.:49:10.

south, cloudy, continuing with the outbreaks of rain, heavy at times,

:49:11.:49:15.

gusty along the English Channel coasts. This evening, many people

:49:16.:49:20.

will be heading out to firework displays. For most places, clear

:49:21.:49:25.

skies with the rain clearing away. Cloud and rain lingering in southern

:49:26.:49:28.

and south-eastern parts of England for a time. We will see a quieter

:49:29.:49:35.

spell of weather overnight. Saturday, the next batch of rain

:49:36.:49:39.

heads in from the south-west. Quite a wet day, particularly across

:49:40.:49:45.

England and Wales. Blustery too. Still very mild. Light rain for

:49:46.:49:48.

Northern Ireland and southern Scotland. The northern half of

:49:49.:49:52.

Scotland will probably see the best of the dry unsettled weather.

:49:53.:49:56.

Saturday and into Sunday, Remembrance Sunday, the next area of

:49:57.:50:03.

low pressure. -- dry and settled weather. The West bearing the brunt

:50:04.:50:09.

of the wet and windy weather. Still mild in the south and east. The

:50:10.:50:16.

forecast for a member on Sunday, we keep the mild theme but it will be

:50:17.:50:21.

feeling blustery and breezy -- Remembrance Sunday. Rain moving east

:50:22.:50:26.

through the course of the day. Things remaining unsettled. Quite a

:50:27.:50:34.

lot of isobars on the map. Further low pressure piling up in the

:50:35.:50:38.

Atlantic heading our way. The outlook into the new working week,

:50:39.:50:42.

things staying pretty autumnal and unsettled. Mild for the time of

:50:43.:50:46.

year. Brighter spells and outbreaks of rain.

:50:47.:50:51.

Welcome to the programme, if you've just joined us.

:50:52.:50:56.

"There's chas and anger at Sharm el-Sheikh" -

:50:57.:51:00.

that's what one passenger hoping to fly home today has told us.

:51:01.:51:03.

All flights from the UK into Sharm el-Sheikh have been suspended by the

:51:04.:51:10.

Egyptian authorities. We will get the latest on the fast moving

:51:11.:51:11.

situation. We exclusively reveal why more than

:51:12.:51:14.

100 British Uber drivers are looking to take legal action

:51:15.:51:17.

against the high-tech taxi company. The only problem is if you are not

:51:18.:51:27.

working, you are not earning and the earnings are so much lower than I

:51:28.:51:31.

expected. It is really starting to bite now. We have been hearing how

:51:32.:51:40.

pioneering surgery is providing hope to women who cannot have children.

:51:41.:51:43.

To know there is a chance that we can better job than ourselves, it

:51:44.:51:49.

mildly overrules every other option. -- that we can bear children

:51:50.:51:53.

ourselves. And we speak to a gay clergyman who

:51:54.:51:56.

lost a discrimination case after his new post as a hospital

:51:57.:51:59.

chaplain was withdrawn when he EasyJet says the Egyptian

:52:00.:52:22.

authorities have stopped UK planes flying into Sharm el-Sheikh but some

:52:23.:52:26.

planes already at the resort will take off later today. It is hoped

:52:27.:52:31.

thousands of tourists could be flown back to the UK later. There is

:52:32.:52:35.

confusion at the airport itself about the details but more

:52:36.:52:39.

information is emerging about the reasons behind the Government's

:52:40.:52:43.

decision to suspend flights to Sharm el-Sheikh following the downing of a

:52:44.:52:46.

Russian passenger jets. It is understood British investigators

:52:47.:52:51.

believe and expose advice was put in the hole before take-off. The

:52:52.:52:56.

Government says it has received new information on Wednesday based on

:52:57.:52:59.

so-called chatter picked up by intelligence agencies. We were faced

:53:00.:53:02.

with a situation where we had serious concerns about the incident

:53:03.:53:09.

as far as the Russian plane last Saturday was concerned and we wanted

:53:10.:53:12.

to put in place to get as many people back as quickly as we could

:53:13.:53:16.

in light of the fact that yesterday was a big changeover day. There

:53:17.:53:21.

should have been around 15 flights yesterday which were all cancelled.

:53:22.:53:25.

It was a matter of, how do we do it in the safest way to reach --

:53:26.:53:32.

reassure ourselves that we put particular restrictions into

:53:33.:53:37.

operation? There is real confusion at Sharm el-Sheikh about what is

:53:38.:53:40.

going to be happening with the British people who were expecting to

:53:41.:53:46.

fly home today. EasyJet has put back one of its flights at least which

:53:47.:53:50.

was going to leave this morning. Let us speak to a man we spoke to

:53:51.:53:56.

yesterday, he is at Sharm el-Sheikh today waiting to find out what is

:53:57.:54:00.

happening. Tell us what is happening today? I am going through to one of

:54:01.:54:09.

the planes now. We found out this morning that six of the planes that

:54:10.:54:13.

were meant to come have not come from London. It is noisy because I

:54:14.:54:19.

am going to my plane right now. One second. Sorry. All right. You are

:54:20.:54:28.

actually getting on a plane which as far as you know is going to leave,

:54:29.:54:33.

is it? At what time? It is supposed to depart now, as soon as the. There

:54:34.:54:39.

were six flights that were meant to fly from London to come here but as

:54:40.:54:43.

far as I could find out from officials that they told us there

:54:44.:54:49.

was so much traffic here that they could not possibly accommodate the

:54:50.:54:52.

ten extra flights coming, the empty flights coming from easyJet and the

:54:53.:54:58.

other airlines. They had to delay them until this evening. It has

:54:59.:55:04.

created quite a lot of chaos and tension, understandably. A lot of

:55:05.:55:08.

shouting and anger and a lot of people have had to go back to their

:55:09.:55:13.

hotels. We have had messages from easyJet informing us that it was a

:55:14.:55:18.

political situation whereby they were still negotiating with the

:55:19.:55:21.

Egyptian government to allow these planes to come here to pick people

:55:22.:55:27.

up. We are still uncertain. I would love you to get on this. There were

:55:28.:55:33.

a couple of extra seats on one of the planes departing now. These

:55:34.:55:37.

planes were here before the incident happened. They are taking off today.

:55:38.:55:44.

We are looking at things in the airport and it is very, very busy,

:55:45.:55:50.

clearly. Talk us through how you managed to get on that flight.

:55:51.:55:54.

Presumably, there are loads of people in exactly the same boat

:55:55.:55:58.

trying to bag a seat. I am travelling by myself. I have no one

:55:59.:56:04.

else with me. I was staying behind because I was trying to talk to

:56:05.:56:08.

someone about where to stay and they said I would not be able to leave

:56:09.:56:12.

Sharm el-Sheikh for a while. Luckily, I was able to talk to one

:56:13.:56:17.

of the attendants at the easyJet desk at the last minute who told me

:56:18.:56:21.

there were an extra couple of seats left over and they put me on one of

:56:22.:56:25.

them. That is the plane I am about to go on. How do you feel about

:56:26.:56:30.

getting on the flight? Nervous at all? I put my full faith in the

:56:31.:56:37.

British system and how they have come here and all of the security

:56:38.:56:46.

measures and you can tell there is bolstered security has been put in

:56:47.:56:50.

place, there is a lot of rigorous checking going on in the airport.

:56:51.:56:54.

The fact that the UK Government has allowed planes to take off today, it

:56:55.:56:59.

indicates they are satisfied with the security, so I am comfortable

:57:00.:57:06.

with the fact I am able to get on the plane. I can feel a little bit

:57:07.:57:10.

more comfortable knowing our government has allowed us to flight

:57:11.:57:14.

and they feel the security measures are adequate. Did you have luggage

:57:15.:57:18.

you would have wanted to check in? What has happened with it? I had a

:57:19.:57:22.

carry on suitcase which they did not allow me to carry on. I was only

:57:23.:57:27.

able to take out my laptop which I have taken onto the plane with me.

:57:28.:57:32.

The rest of your luggage will be transported back separately?

:57:33.:57:38.

Precisely. My laptop, they had to verify it was working, I had to log

:57:39.:57:43.

in with my password and check it was actually a laptop. There is quite a

:57:44.:57:49.

lot of security checking. As we were coming in, every car, everything was

:57:50.:57:53.

being checked by the security officials. There was quite a long

:57:54.:57:57.

queue outside into the airport of vehicles. The bolstered security.

:57:58.:58:07.

How long until you are going to take off? I think it is going to be

:58:08.:58:14.

another half an hour. It should not be that long. We hope it all goes

:58:15.:58:19.

smoothly. Thank you for talking to us again on the programme.

:58:20.:58:23.

Lawyers say that more than 100 British drivers for the high-tech

:58:24.:58:26.

taxi company, Uber, are looking to take legal action against it.

:58:27.:58:28.

The firm, based in the US, runs a smartphone app

:58:29.:58:31.

which allows users to hail a cab at the touch of the button.

:58:32.:58:34.

The drivers are currently treated as self-employed,

:58:35.:58:36.

but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it.

:58:37.:58:41.

The personal details of more than 150,000 customers and more than

:58:42.:58:43.

15,000 bank details were accessed by hackers in last month's cyber

:58:44.:58:46.

Considerably fewer than originally thought.

:58:47.:58:58.

Sir Cliff Richard has been interviewed for a second time

:58:59.:59:00.

by police investigating alleged sexual assaults three decades ago.

:59:01.:59:02.

A spokesman for the singer confirmed he has been interviewed voluntarily

:59:03.:59:05.

He was not arrested or charged and he continues to describe the claims

:59:06.:59:09.

Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh.

:59:10.:59:17.

So, what is it like playing for a football club owned

:59:18.:59:22.

by five European Cup winners, especially when you're playing

:59:23.:59:24.

in the Northern Premier League, six divisions below the top flight?

:59:25.:59:27.

Tonight, Salford City, who are owned by the Neville brothers, Gary and

:59:28.:59:31.

Phil, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs - all former Manchester

:59:32.:59:33.

United stars - will be playing in their first ever FA cup first-round

:59:34.:59:37.

tie. They've also been the subject of a BBC documentary called the

:59:38.:59:41.

It's fair to say striker and model Gareth Seddon plays a leading role.

:59:42.:59:52.

Welcome to non-league football. 15 players lining up for three cold

:59:53.:59:55.

showers. Welcome to non-league. I came to Salford the same as

:59:56.:00:16.

everyone else, I got sold the dream. You always have to practice the

:00:17.:00:21.

thousand yard stare. The camera is there, you have to look 1000 yards

:00:22.:00:30.

into the distance. The space is that wide. Come inside, turnout, you stay

:00:31.:00:36.

wide. I am thinking, he is like a barman. President of Salford! Here

:00:37.:00:47.

he is, what has it been like taking part in the documentary? Have you

:00:48.:00:52.

had any feedback about the thousand yard stare? It has been amazing. It

:00:53.:00:58.

has all been good, to be fair. I was worried but there have been so many

:00:59.:01:02.

people coming up to me and saying, show us the thousand yard stare. It

:01:03.:01:07.

is all in good fun. I really enjoyed it.

:01:08.:01:17.

What about the owners of the club? Is that added pressure for you? It

:01:18.:01:24.

has been amazing, having them back, but it is added treasure. We want to

:01:25.:01:30.

do well against them, but every single team and player that comes to

:01:31.:01:34.

face us, they have the added pressure to do well in front of them

:01:35.:01:38.

as well. It makes it harder every single game for us. Device have they

:01:39.:01:44.

had much advice for you? Have been brilliant, on and off the pitch.

:01:45.:01:51.

Everything from diet, training and nutrition, to little things like how

:01:52.:01:55.

they should prepare for games and generally looking after us. What is

:01:56.:02:01.

it like, on a personal level, your relationships with them? Do they

:02:02.:02:04.

come into the changing room, do they have a drink with the boys? Gary

:02:05.:02:10.

came in once, I don't think he was too impressed with me! They have

:02:11.:02:13.

really looked after us, they come down to training, obviously,

:02:14.:02:18.

depending on how much weight they have put down over the last few

:02:19.:02:22.

weeks, they will come down and tried to get rid of a few pounds. But to

:02:23.:02:27.

have the likes of Paul Scholes, Gary Neville and Nicky Butt training with

:02:28.:02:32.

you, it has been amazing. You have been doing well on the field, but it

:02:33.:02:37.

is a really tough game against League 2 side Notts County. But you

:02:38.:02:40.

have played in the football league yourself and the FA Cup before? You

:02:41.:02:45.

are injured for tonight. Have you any advice for your team? I am

:02:46.:02:50.

injured, I am gutted I have not played. -- cannot play. I faced

:02:51.:02:54.

Notts County for Kettering once in the second round, I was lucky enough

:02:55.:02:59.

to score the winning goal. People still talk to me about it and it was

:03:00.:03:04.

ten years ago. I hope one of our lads to make can be a hero and in

:03:05.:03:08.

ten or 20 years' time people are still talking about Salford City

:03:09.:03:14.

Reds to you can see that match live on BBC Two from 7:30pm tonight,

:03:15.:03:21.

except in Wales. I will be back with the latest on Sam Burgess and the

:03:22.:03:25.

Roper league goals at around 10:30am. See you then. -- rugby

:03:26.:03:29.

league goals. Hello, thank you

:03:30.:03:31.

for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme,

:03:32.:03:33.

if you've just joined us. We're on BBC Two and the

:03:34.:03:35.

BBC News Channel until 11am. Your contributions to this programme

:03:36.:03:37.

and your expertise really is key. Texts will be charged

:03:38.:03:40.

at the standard network rate. And of course, you can watch

:03:41.:03:42.

the programme online wherever you are, via the BBC News app or

:03:43.:03:45.

our website, bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all

:03:46.:03:47.

our features on the news app, by going to add topics and

:03:48.:03:53.

searching "Victoria Derbyshire". There is confusion at Sharm

:03:54.:04:01.

el-Sheikh about repatriations flights due to fly today. EasyJet

:04:02.:04:07.

says some have been delayed after it reported earlier that they were now

:04:08.:04:12.

it seems that planes already there will be allowed to take off but new

:04:13.:04:15.

planes being sent to pick up Brits will not be allowed by the Egyptian

:04:16.:04:20.

authorities to land. One passenger has described it as chaos.

:04:21.:04:23.

Yesterday, the Prime Minister says it's more

:04:24.:04:25.

likely than not that a terrorist bomb brought down a Russian airliner

:04:26.:04:28.

Meanwhile, Egypt's prime minister says he is angry flights were halted

:04:29.:04:33.

after security was increased at the resort's airport ten months ago

:04:34.:04:36.

Chris Barrett is an aviation security expert based in Dubai, and

:04:37.:04:51.

we can talk to him via Skype. What are your thoughts on what is going

:04:52.:04:58.

on here? First of all, I think it is important to state that I don't know

:04:59.:05:02.

what information the British Government has, rightly so. What I

:05:03.:05:08.

can say to you is that the statement issued by the Prime Minister, whilst

:05:09.:05:12.

he said very clearly that while this may not be a warm, to actually talk

:05:13.:05:20.

about it in such words was indicating that there is very good

:05:21.:05:24.

information, and the Government no choice but to ask. -- whilst this

:05:25.:05:30.

may not be a bomb. The Egyptian authorities say security was

:05:31.:05:35.

improved after Britain raised concerns a few months ago. How risky

:05:36.:05:38.

was Sharm el-Sheikh perceived to be before all of this? I think that is

:05:39.:05:44.

an unfair assessment. There is a rolling programme where airports

:05:45.:05:50.

around the world are visited by various organisations and

:05:51.:05:53.

governments, including the International Civil Aviation

:05:54.:05:59.

Authority. Recommendations are made. That is not to say that they are

:06:00.:06:03.

particularly whisky, what it does say is there are risks in the system

:06:04.:06:08.

that the Government would have preferred to have seemed closed

:06:09.:06:12.

off. It is not quite as clear-cut it first seems. They have stopped

:06:13.:06:18.

passengers being able to travel with hold luggage, just whatever they can

:06:19.:06:23.

carry is all they are allowed to take. Does that sound sensible to

:06:24.:06:29.

you? In view of the information we have, and I can only go in view of

:06:30.:06:33.

what has been said, it would seem that is sensible at this time. The

:06:34.:06:39.

importance is the safety of the passengers travelling. The

:06:40.:06:42.

Government has sufficient concerns. It is not in Government interest to

:06:43.:06:48.

take these measures, you have seen the anger it causes with the

:06:49.:06:52.

Egyptian Government and the damage caused to the airlines and the tour

:06:53.:06:57.

operators. They obviously have what they believe to be strong

:06:58.:07:01.

information and, therefore, yes, it is a sensible move. Thank you very

:07:02.:07:06.

much indeed for giving us your perspective. Let's talk to Jonathan

:07:07.:07:18.

Marcus, our world affairs reporter. What is the latest? A fair amount of

:07:19.:07:23.

confusion, we expected 29 flights to the UK today, taking those whose

:07:24.:07:28.

holidays had ended and were already booked on cancelled flights and

:07:29.:07:31.

others who might want to return home anyway. In the last few minutes

:07:32.:07:36.

easyJet, one of the operators, has said their flights will not be

:07:37.:07:41.

flying back today. They are urging their customers to return to their

:07:42.:07:45.

hotels. It is not clear yet whether this is just easyJet or whether

:07:46.:07:48.

there are other companies' flights involved. They seem to suggest it is

:07:49.:07:55.

a scheduling problem with the Egyptian aviation authorities. Lots

:07:56.:07:59.

of the additional flights are due to leave today. Certainly not the

:08:00.:08:05.

smooth, well machine that people were hoping for after all the

:08:06.:08:10.

frustrations of the problems associated with the holidays. It has

:08:11.:08:13.

been described as chaos by one passenger. We are getting a bit more

:08:14.:08:19.

clarity with what is going on with easyJet, it seems that the issue is

:08:20.:08:23.

that planes are not being allowed to fly into Sharm el-Sheikh to make up

:08:24.:08:25.

the roster of flight they were hoping. So two out of ten easyJet

:08:26.:08:31.

flight will be able to light -- leave today, carrying British

:08:32.:08:35.

passengers. How long can this go on for? It could clearly taken about

:08:36.:08:41.

days to get over the backlog, and there is no question of new flights

:08:42.:08:46.

going as carrying holiday-makers, if people still want to trouble. There

:08:47.:08:52.

are also the restrictions about hold baggage, people only being allowed

:08:53.:08:55.

to travel with hand baggage, the hold baggage will be going

:08:56.:08:59.

separately. That is another area of complexity. The flights to carry

:09:00.:09:06.

that baggage, it needs to be reconciled with the passengers when

:09:07.:09:10.

they arrive home. It is complex, but one imagines if there are not

:09:11.:09:13.

particular problems to do with the capacity and so on, it is a busy

:09:14.:09:18.

airport but not by any means amongst the world's most busy, we would

:09:19.:09:22.

imagine it would be carried out within a number of days, that

:09:23.:09:26.

depends as much of the Egyptian authorities as anybody else. Thank

:09:27.:09:34.

you very much. We are getting further clarification, as I was just

:09:35.:09:39.

mentioning it is that easyJet have been told that aid flights they were

:09:40.:09:43.

planning to fly from the UK to Sharm el-Sheikh will not be allowed to

:09:44.:09:48.

land, and seven of those were due to return to the UK, one was due to fly

:09:49.:09:53.

to Italy. -- to the UK from Sharm el-Sheikh. Those flights will not be

:09:54.:09:58.

happening, we are hearing that at Sharm el-Sheikh the authorities are

:09:59.:10:02.

saying they simply cannot accommodate all the extra aeroplanes

:10:03.:10:05.

at the airport. Two easyJet flight will go ahead. The first Brits will

:10:06.:10:12.

still be flying back to the UK today, we will keep you updated on

:10:13.:10:14.

what is going on. Earlier this morning, we brought you

:10:15.:10:17.

our exclusive investigation The taxi company is now worth

:10:18.:10:19.

?30billion and operates in ten cities

:10:20.:10:22.

across the UK with more to come. Well, we've been told more than 100

:10:23.:10:25.

are now looking to take legal action against the firm over pay

:10:26.:10:29.

and conditions. In a moment we will hear from Uber

:10:30.:10:31.

users and what black cab drivers But first here's Jim Reed

:10:32.:10:34.

with this exclusive report. It's happening on the ground

:10:35.:10:39.

and around the world every day. Whatever you think of Uber,

:10:40.:10:45.

you can't say it's short of The tech company was founded just

:10:46.:10:48.

six years ago in San Francisco. It's now worth ?30 billion

:10:49.:10:56.

and growing fast. If you haven't used it before,

:10:57.:11:00.

this is how it works. So you turn your smartphone on,

:11:01.:11:03.

and you select where you want to be picked up from,

:11:04.:11:06.

and then it sends it all out to all One of them can accept that

:11:07.:11:09.

and brings up a photo of Like I say, in this case, four

:11:10.:11:17.

minutes, and you just go down to the But in this brave new world,

:11:18.:11:24.

not everyone is happy. James Farrar has been

:11:25.:11:28.

an Uber driver for almost a year. Like all the others,

:11:29.:11:31.

he is self-employed. Now he's part of the group taking

:11:32.:11:33.

legal action against the company The flexibility is great. The

:11:34.:11:54.

incomers too lo, you are at a lot of financial risk. You carry all the

:11:55.:11:59.

business risk, they will take 20%. James and the other drivers involved

:12:00.:12:03.

in the legal action say the way Uber operates needs they are not really

:12:04.:12:07.

self-employed entrepreneurs at all, but working for the company, and so

:12:08.:12:10.

should get the rights that go with it. Lawyers say more than 100 Uber

:12:11.:12:15.

drivers are looking to take some action.

:12:16.:12:20.

What we want to do is make sure that these drivers get workers rights,

:12:21.:12:23.

so it's the rights that anybody who works is entitled to.

:12:24.:12:26.

And we're talking about things like minimum wage, the right to

:12:27.:12:29.

It's great that these new technology companies exist, but all we're

:12:30.:12:34.

asking is that they treat people who work for them in the same way that

:12:35.:12:38.

Adu the's new headquarters, it says it is all about choice. -- at

:12:39.:12:54.

Uber's new headquarters. Many of them had to work prescribed hours.

:12:55.:12:59.

They have chosen to work with us because of the flexibility. It is

:13:00.:13:02.

likely an employment tribunal will hear both sides over the coming

:13:03.:13:07.

months. If Uber losers, it may have to pay compensation and change the

:13:08.:13:09.

way it does business in the future. And to watch

:13:10.:13:12.

and share the full film head to our Let's talk now to Steve Grainger,

:13:13.:13:15.

who's been driving a black cab for over 20 years and Imogen Reid,

:13:16.:13:19.

who uses Uber. Thank you both for coming in. Steve,

:13:20.:13:29.

you have seen Jim's report, do you have sympathy for Uber drivers? It

:13:30.:13:33.

is difficult for me to have sympathy for the opposition. We like to have

:13:34.:13:38.

a friendly, competitive attitude to one another. Essentially, you are a

:13:39.:13:43.

self-employed driver if you are a licensed private hire or black taxi.

:13:44.:13:48.

You are self-employed. You know, I work for a radio circuit and I pay

:13:49.:13:53.

for the privilege of getting jobs from them. We are service partners.

:13:54.:14:00.

I think that if I was to try and get employment status from that

:14:01.:14:08.

company, they would probably throw it out. There is no way I could

:14:09.:14:10.

become employed by that radio service provider, because I am Steve

:14:11.:14:19.

Grainger, taxi driver, not Steve Grainger, driving exclusively for

:14:20.:14:24.

them. Where I would sympathise with Uber drivers as they can only work

:14:25.:14:28.

through Uber, using the app. Perhaps they have an argument to say that we

:14:29.:14:33.

only get our work from you, perhaps how Addison Lee would only work with

:14:34.:14:40.

their liveried vehicles. It is a complex picture, the issue of the

:14:41.:14:47.

implement right is. -- employment rights. In a broader sense, Uber has

:14:48.:14:52.

come about and shaken up the market, has it impacted on you? It has

:14:53.:14:59.

encouraged other apps to up their game. In the same model but Uber

:15:00.:15:09.

work, there are licensed taxi at. But all of these crowding in on the

:15:10.:15:13.

black taxis, lack taxi drivers have been out protesting. Does it have an

:15:14.:15:20.

impact on your pocket? I think so. There is a massive increase in the

:15:21.:15:25.

number of minicabs, licensed private hire, and I think probably because

:15:26.:15:31.

by using the Uber app, it against... It circumvents the rules,

:15:32.:15:37.

if you like, whereby they are effectively applying for hire on an

:15:38.:15:41.

apple. But punter friendly, people know what they are getting, Imogen,

:15:42.:15:44.

why do you use them? It is easy and most of the journey

:15:45.:15:56.

is are cheaper than black cabs. I have sympathy and they are

:15:57.:16:02.

wonderful, black cabs. No one wants them to decline. But as a student,

:16:03.:16:08.

price is a priority. It is easy, I can track it, I can leave a review,

:16:09.:16:13.

it is very consumer friendly. Is that the reason you do not use black

:16:14.:16:22.

cabs, too expensive? Basically, yes. I was talking earlier with imaging,

:16:23.:16:25.

very nice chap, and I was trying to explain there are apps pretty much

:16:26.:16:35.

identical to Uber's. They offer discounts and fixed prices and you

:16:36.:16:40.

do not have to pay anything... You are saying black taxis are not more

:16:41.:16:46.

expensive than Uber? I cannot say for sure but they are categorically

:16:47.:16:51.

the same, our fares. From what I am aware of, Uber have a sliding pay

:16:52.:16:59.

scale. If things get a little bit busier, they are effectively running

:17:00.:17:04.

a metered fare that increases or decreases. That is something that

:17:05.:17:08.

intervene is the regs. You said something earlier about how the apps

:17:09.:17:15.

take a certain percentage of your wage and you take the rest so the

:17:16.:17:21.

firm must be higher than Uber. No, we charge our fair at the same as if

:17:22.:17:25.

you got in on the street, you could stick out your hand, come to the

:17:26.:17:30.

taxi rank, get into my lovely clean taxi with my knowledgeable driving

:17:31.:17:33.

skills and I can take you where you want to go. Anyone can do that with

:17:34.:17:39.

sat nav. Categorically not. I would challenge anybody to get the sat

:17:40.:17:44.

nav... You name two places and I will be there by the time you have

:17:45.:17:50.

figured out which way to hold the sat nav. Anyone stuck under a bridge

:17:51.:17:56.

or stuck next to a tall building and they have seen the sat nav going,

:17:57.:18:01.

hang on, it does not note where you are going. It tells you... I have

:18:02.:18:07.

one and it tells me I can turn right from Hogan viaduct and to Farringdon

:18:08.:18:14.

Road. We have heard lots of stories about people getting in trouble with

:18:15.:18:20.

sat navs! I rest my case. Are you worried the black cab might be a

:18:21.:18:26.

dying breed? Partly, yes, but I think we are moving with the times.

:18:27.:18:32.

I do not want to plug different apps for taxis, but we offer that

:18:33.:18:42.

service and we offer fixed prices and special deals. You can track

:18:43.:18:46.

your taxi, you know when it is arriving. It does not cost you

:18:47.:18:49.

anything other than the metered fare. If I was to say, I will be

:18:50.:18:55.

your service Partner, I will turn up at your house, as I have said, in my

:18:56.:19:02.

knowledgeable clean taxi, the meter will start when you get in. When you

:19:03.:19:07.

get out, that is how much the fair is. The app deducts 10%. I am losing

:19:08.:19:14.

money, you are not, but you are getting a superior service. Thank

:19:15.:19:20.

you very much. Let us know what you think about that as well.

:19:21.:19:23.

We speak to a gay clergyman who lost a discrimination case

:19:24.:19:28.

after his new post as a hospital chaplain was withdrawn when he

:19:29.:19:31.

And we'll bring you the story of the London baby girl who's become the

:19:32.:19:35.

first person in the world to receive a revolutionary genetic treatment.

:19:36.:19:44.

Reports of confusing scenes at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport,

:19:45.:19:48.

as thousands of stranded British tourists wait to fly home.

:19:49.:19:53.

EasyJet say Egyptian authorities have stopped them from flying

:19:54.:19:57.

into the airport, putting some of their rescue flights at risk.

:19:58.:20:00.

It had been hoped that all UK holidaymakers

:20:01.:20:03.

at the Red Sea resort would be repatriated by the end of today.

:20:04.:20:14.

Two flights are believed to have taken off. More information is

:20:15.:20:29.

emerging about the reasons behind the Government's decision to suspend

:20:30.:20:31.

flights. It's understood British

:20:32.:20:35.

investigators believe an explosive device was put in the plane's hold

:20:36.:20:37.

some time before take-off. The Government is said to have

:20:38.:20:40.

received new information on Wednesday based on so-called chatter

:20:41.:20:42.

picked up by intelligence agencies. Lawyers say that more than 100

:20:43.:20:45.

British drivers for the high-tech taxi company, Uber, are looking

:20:46.:20:47.

to take legal action against it. The firm, based in the US,

:20:48.:20:50.

runs a smartphone app which allows users to hail a cab

:20:51.:20:52.

at the touch of the button. The drivers are currently treated

:20:53.:20:55.

as self-employed, but they want full worker status

:20:56.:20:57.

and the rights that go with it. TalkTalk says the bank accounts

:20:58.:21:00.

and sort codes of more than 15,000 people were accessed during last

:21:01.:21:03.

month's cyber attack, considerably The telecoms company believes

:21:04.:21:05.

the personal data of 4% Sir Cliff Richard has been

:21:06.:21:08.

interviewed for a second time by police investigating alleged

:21:09.:21:15.

sexual assaults three decades ago. A spokesman for the singer confirmed

:21:16.:21:18.

he has been interviewed voluntarily He was not arrested or charged and

:21:19.:21:21.

he continues to describe the claims Let's catch up with all

:21:22.:21:27.

the sport now and join Hugh. The road to FA Cup

:21:28.:21:35.

glory starts tonight. Yes, it does. You can watch Salford

:21:36.:21:50.

city against Notts County tonight on BBC Two.

:21:51.:21:53.

Here are the day's main sporting headlines.

:21:54.:21:55.

There were wins for Liverpool and Spurs

:21:56.:21:57.

Liverpool beat Rubin Kazan, while a late screamer from

:21:58.:22:01.

Moussa Dembele gave Tottenham victory over Anderlecht at White

:22:02.:22:04.

They were beaten 2-1 at home by Norwegian side Molde

:22:05.:22:09.

and they are bottom of their group and need to win their remaining two

:22:10.:22:12.

And Bath head coach Mike Ford says he still feels Sam Burgess could

:22:13.:22:17.

have been a great Rugby Union player.

:22:18.:22:18.

The club say they were committed to his development

:22:19.:22:20.

but understand his return to Australia for personal reasons.

:22:21.:22:26.

That is all the sport for this morning. More on BBC News throughout

:22:27.:22:33.

the day. Thank you very much. Let us bring

:22:34.:22:38.

you up to date with what is going on in Sharm el-Sheikh airport. A BA

:22:39.:22:43.

flight leaving Gatwick right now is about to get airborne and they are

:22:44.:22:47.

expecting it to land without problems at Sharm el-Sheikh. They

:22:48.:22:52.

will be picking up the UK passengers and returning as planned tonight.

:22:53.:22:57.

Different from easyJet which says it is not being allowed to take off

:22:58.:23:00.

from the UK to fly to Sharm el-Sheikh. We will continue to keep

:23:01.:23:05.

you updated. The first easyJet flight leaving Sharm el-Sheikh to

:23:06.:23:09.

return to the UK, as far as we know, has taken off.

:23:10.:23:12.

A gay clergyman who was prevented from taking up a post as a hospital

:23:13.:23:15.

chaplain has said he feels sick after an employment tribunal ruled

:23:16.:23:18.

Canon Jeremy Pemberton made history when he became the first British

:23:19.:23:23.

clergyman to marry his same-sex partner.

:23:24.:23:26.

But shortly after, he was told the bishop was withdrawing

:23:27.:23:32.

his licence and a job offer he had received was withdrawn.

:23:33.:23:37.

Despite this, he is still working as a hospital chaplain

:23:38.:23:40.

Now he says he's going to appeal the ruling.

:23:41.:23:45.

We are joined also by Reverend Ian Paul. He works in the same dioceses

:23:46.:23:53.

as Jeremy. Thank you for coming in. I said you felt sick when you heard

:23:54.:24:00.

the ruling, Jeremy. Yes, I was not surprised, to be honest. I was

:24:01.:24:04.

expecting to hear the result we got, but I was very disappointed.

:24:05.:24:11.

Why were you so disappointed? Marriage is a human rights, people

:24:12.:24:16.

have the right to marry or not to marry. In the Church of England, we

:24:17.:24:21.

have an article that says in the rules, priests can marry who they

:24:22.:24:24.

want to marry. You cannot marry people if it is not legal, but it

:24:25.:24:29.

was legal for me to marry. Article 32 says it is up to me who I choose

:24:30.:24:35.

to marry. I think the bishops were wrong to put out guidance saying,

:24:36.:24:40.

you cannot marry people, that is against our rules. I do not think

:24:41.:24:44.

they should have said that. What is your perspective? I think it is

:24:45.:24:47.

worth reflecting carefully on what the tribunal said. I was slightly

:24:48.:24:56.

surprised. Unexpected. Peter Tatchell has claimed the ruling set

:24:57.:25:00.

a precedent, it does not, it has simply clarified the law and the way

:25:01.:25:04.

it applied. The other thing the tribunal did not do is it did not

:25:05.:25:09.

evaluate the church's doctrine. It said, has the church got a clear

:25:10.:25:13.

doctrine? Yes. Has it been communicated? Yes. Have the bishops

:25:14.:25:17.

acted in line with the doctrine as expressed by the Church of end? Yes.

:25:18.:25:23.

Was Jeremy aware of that and the consequences? The communication

:25:24.:25:26.

shows that is the case. The question of what marriage is brings us back

:25:27.:25:32.

to the question of law in the UK. I disagree with all of those yes is,

:25:33.:25:40.

they are no for me. I am saying this is what the tribunal judgment said.

:25:41.:25:44.

That is why you were not surprise. It said I was discredited against

:25:45.:25:49.

also, but it said the Church of England have the right to do so.

:25:50.:25:53.

That is important to recognise that discrimination took place. I think

:25:54.:25:58.

people in this country are sickened by discrimination. They do not

:25:59.:26:01.

understand why getting married is something that should be punished.

:26:02.:26:04.

They think it is just disgusting, really. That is what they tell me.

:26:05.:26:11.

Someone like Jeremy is doing the right thing by committing to

:26:12.:26:15.

somebody else in love, why should the church disagree with that? In

:26:16.:26:19.

law, there are two kinds of discrimination, illegitimate, the

:26:20.:26:24.

kind that people are sickened by, as Jeremy mentioned, and there is

:26:25.:26:28.

legitimate discrimination. It is not legitimate if I am appointing

:26:29.:26:33.

someone to a job if they are Muslim. If someone is a candidate for

:26:34.:26:37.

Christian ministry, I am allowed to discriminate and the tribunal said

:26:38.:26:40.

two important things. They said it was very clear that Jeremy had not

:26:41.:26:44.

been discriminated against simply because he was gay and they used

:26:45.:26:48.

quite a lot of evidence about that. The second thing was the church has

:26:49.:26:55.

in law been granted permission for legitimate discrimination and that

:26:56.:26:58.

is to do with whether or not clergy are actually in line with the

:26:59.:27:01.

teaching of the church and if the... I was worried that if the

:27:02.:27:07.

tribunal had ruled in a different way, I think this is what Jeremy was

:27:08.:27:14.

asking, asking clergy to disregard the teaching of the church, and the

:27:15.:27:18.

tribunal said, they cannot. No, I was doing what I thought the

:27:19.:27:22.

teaching of the church allowed me to do, which in article 32 says, I can

:27:23.:27:28.

marry who I choose. That article was formed before anyone thought of

:27:29.:27:31.

same-sex marriage but the intention was to preserve my right to marry

:27:32.:27:37.

legally who I chose, not the right of bishops to tell me I should not.

:27:38.:27:41.

Now the Church of England says its position is clear. I do not think

:27:42.:27:46.

its position... It says it supports vicars in same-sex partnerships but

:27:47.:27:51.

marriage is between a man and a woman. It has had an amazing change

:27:52.:27:58.

of heart over civil partnerships because it was hotly opposed by

:27:59.:28:01.

bishops in most of its passage through the House of Lords and they

:28:02.:28:06.

have suddenly discovered civil partnerships and they think they are

:28:07.:28:12.

a lovely thing. But the doctrine of the Church of England says this,

:28:13.:28:16.

that marriage is between a man and a woman for life. Interestingly, the

:28:17.:28:21.

Church of England has a number now of divorced and remarried bishops,

:28:22.:28:24.

they have gone against the doctrine of the Church of England and nobody

:28:25.:28:29.

has punished them. Is it hypocritical? Yes, it is. Jeremy and

:28:30.:28:36.

I clearly... There is nothing... Agreement is breaking out. I agree

:28:37.:28:41.

that the way the church has handled civil partnerships has been

:28:42.:28:44.

unhelpful and confusing and I thought what happened was mistaken

:28:45.:28:48.

in the past. Why should it allow one thing, what Jeremy is saying about

:28:49.:28:51.

divorce and remarry in being fine... The church does not say it

:28:52.:29:00.

is fine. If anyone has been involved in divorce and has remarried, they

:29:01.:29:04.

have to go through a pass truly challenging process before they can

:29:05.:29:10.

be admitted to ministry. The church has not changed its teaching. Yes,

:29:11.:29:14.

it has. It has added a clause saying, when it goes wrong, here is

:29:15.:29:19.

a remedy to restore it. Going back to their articles, the doctrine is

:29:20.:29:24.

clear and it is disingenuous of Jeremy to claim that the 39 articles

:29:25.:29:29.

legitimises his approach. The judge in the tribunal was clear in saying

:29:30.:29:34.

that the Church of England has consistently for a long time very

:29:35.:29:39.

articulately and as recently as 2014 in the bishop was no statement said

:29:40.:29:46.

very clearly what the church's teaching on marriage is. In Britain

:29:47.:29:50.

today, we have two laws about marriage, we have the law which is

:29:51.:29:55.

shaped by the 2013 act and we have ecclesiastical law which includes

:29:56.:29:59.

canon law which says clearly that marriage is between one man and one

:30:00.:30:07.

man -- one woman. Bishop said clearly it was the case. At the

:30:08.:30:11.

moment the Church of England has had no discussion about in the

:30:12.:30:15.

appropriate form to decide whether it has a doctrine about same-sex

:30:16.:30:20.

marriage or not. All we have had is pastoral guidance from the bishops.

:30:21.:30:24.

The clue is in the title. It is not doctrine. The Church of England...

:30:25.:30:29.

You are still wearing the dog collar. The church has decided

:30:30.:30:36.

really clearly. We have never discussed it. The all of the

:30:37.:30:43.

documentation is listed in the tribunal ruling. All of the examples

:30:44.:30:48.

in canon law, in the general communication from bishops, in

:30:49.:30:50.

specific indication from the assistant bishop in the dioceses,

:30:51.:30:57.

the acting Bishop, all consistent. It depends... Can I read to you what

:30:58.:31:02.

the bishop broke? He said, you have acted in a way which is inconsistent

:31:03.:31:06.

with your ordination vows and your duty to live in accordance with the

:31:07.:31:10.

teachings of the Church of England. It is unambiguous to me and the

:31:11.:31:14.

judge thought so too. The Bishop gave me a rebuke and I have been

:31:15.:31:18.

treated very differently in two dioceses. I have a dog collar

:31:19.:31:24.

because I am a priest in the good standing of Lincoln. I wake up in

:31:25.:31:28.

Nottinghamshire not a priest because the dioceses has removed all of my

:31:29.:31:32.

capacity to act as a priest. I get in my car and I drive 12 miles up

:31:33.:31:37.

the road to another village and I cross the county boundary and I am a

:31:38.:31:41.

priest. I think that is completely crackers. Most people think so. How

:31:42.:31:44.

do you explain that? In order to function as a priest in

:31:45.:31:55.

the Church of England, you need a licence. I have one. It is the legal

:31:56.:32:01.

way that a bishop allows a priest to operate with licensors and

:32:02.:32:05.

privileges. The base that there is no clarity when he can operate in

:32:06.:32:09.

one place but not another. The reason why Jeremy has a licence in

:32:10.:32:13.

one place and not in the other, is that clergy have such good

:32:14.:32:16.

protection under law about the licence that if there is clear

:32:17.:32:20.

evidence, which there was in this case, not to grant a licence, then

:32:21.:32:25.

the bishop can do so, but if he already has a licence, to remove

:32:26.:32:28.

that the Bishop leads to go through a complex and expensive legal

:32:29.:32:34.

procedure. This is nonsense, and you know it. The clergy discipline

:32:35.:32:37.

measure was meant to be a simple and direct way of dealing with clergy

:32:38.:32:45.

discipline. It has been used in number of times perfectly

:32:46.:32:48.

effectively, as you know. If the Bishop really thought I had done

:32:49.:32:54.

something bad he could have asked as Archdeacon -- his Archdeacon to

:32:55.:33:00.

start action against me they never have. Neither Bishop had any

:33:01.:33:05.

complaints made to them about my marrying, either informal or formal.

:33:06.:33:10.

Nobody complained. It is not a problem. I think to get over it. As

:33:11.:33:16.

things stand, you could carry on in your same position for other, but

:33:17.:33:25.

you can't move elsewhere? If I move, there is a risk. How does this make

:33:26.:33:30.

you feel? Has it made you question staying within the church? Not at

:33:31.:33:36.

all. I have been a member of the Church of England since I was

:33:37.:33:40.

baptised at four month old in King's College Chapel, Cambridge, and I

:33:41.:33:45.

will stay, I will stay forever. This is my church, I belong there. I have

:33:46.:33:50.

given 34 years of ministry, and nobody has ever complained about the

:33:51.:33:54.

ministry I have offered. I am the canon of two cathedrals, but tells

:33:55.:33:59.

you that people think I do good ministry. I was complimented on the

:34:00.:34:03.

House of Commons yesterday on my ministry. I am disgusted, really, by

:34:04.:34:10.

the Church's attitude and behaviour. I am fairly confident and reasonably

:34:11.:34:15.

articulate, but there are a lot of gay and lesbian people out there who

:34:16.:34:18.

feel that the church runs roughshod over them. Ian, does that make you

:34:19.:34:25.

feel sad, he is describing being a second-class citizen? It makes me

:34:26.:34:30.

feel very sad. What he said is not true, it is a complex legal process.

:34:31.:34:35.

The judge interpreted, the church not deploying bat is an act of

:34:36.:34:41.

compassion. I feel much more sympathy for gay clergy that I know

:34:42.:34:44.

who have said they accept the teaching the church, they will not

:34:45.:34:48.

ride roughshod over their vows of canonical obedience, therefore they

:34:49.:34:53.

have remained celibate, or I have about gay clergy friends who have

:34:54.:34:57.

fallen in love and married a woman, I have others who disagree with the

:34:58.:35:01.

teaching of the church, as Jeremy does, but out of respect for the

:35:02.:35:05.

church and for themselves, they say they will not enter same-sex

:35:06.:35:07.

marriage because they know it is against teaching of the church. So

:35:08.:35:14.

they stay as they are, even though they don't like it. I disagree with

:35:15.:35:23.

the notion that I do not respect the teachings of the Church or live

:35:24.:35:25.

within them, I think that is outrageous. We must leave it there.

:35:26.:35:31.

Reverend Paul on Twitter says no religion should have the right to

:35:32.:35:33.

discriminate on any grounds. They should not be a love -- above the

:35:34.:35:38.

law. Jemima says it is dreadful and archaic that the Church can legally

:35:39.:35:45.

discriminate against a gay man for getting married, and rages. --

:35:46.:35:48.

outrageous. A spokesperson for the Diocese

:35:49.:35:49.

of Southwell and Nottingham said they recognise that it has been

:35:50.:35:51.

a long and difficult process "Churches across the diocese

:35:52.:35:54.

continue to offer a generous welcome We remain engaged

:35:55.:35:58.

in the on-going shared conversations across the wider Church of England

:35:59.:36:01.

that are exploring questions The first person in the world to

:36:02.:36:03.

receive a pioneering genetic therapy has had her cancer reversed,

:36:04.:36:08.

say Great Ormond Street doctors. One-year-old Layla Richards had

:36:09.:36:12.

incurable aggressive leukaemia Doctors say it's too soon to know

:36:13.:36:15.

if she has been cured, but her progress already marks

:36:16.:36:21.

a huge moment for the field. When she was three months old, we

:36:22.:36:34.

took her to the doctor 's and told him she just wasn't herself. Her

:36:35.:36:39.

heartbeat was a bit fast, she had a high-pitched cry. She had gone off

:36:40.:36:46.

her milk completely. We took her back to a local hospital and within

:36:47.:36:50.

half an hour we were told she had leukaemia and an ambulance was

:36:51.:36:54.

coming to take is to Great Ormond Street Hospital to start treatment

:36:55.:36:57.

immediately. They said it was very aggressive leukaemia, we are going

:36:58.:37:04.

to tell you information, bit I did. It changed our life dramatically.

:37:05.:37:09.

She had a bone marrow transplant this year. The day we left the

:37:10.:37:13.

transplant unit, seven weeks later we were told she had relapsed and

:37:14.:37:18.

things were not looking good. Everyone was upset. The transplant

:37:19.:37:24.

was not successful. Let me have a little feel of her tummy. Her

:37:25.:37:29.

prognosis was absolutely dismal, having relapsed so early after the

:37:30.:37:34.

transplant, almost always in previous similar circumstances we

:37:35.:37:37.

have said, there is nothing more we can do. They said, go home and make

:37:38.:37:44.

memories. Make memories, palliative care. I don't believe that outlook.

:37:45.:37:48.

I have never been through it before, but I don't believe giving up. We

:37:49.:37:53.

just pushed on and pushed on, we got the go-ahead for this treatment. We

:37:54.:38:00.

have collected white blood cells from a healthy donor, we have

:38:01.:38:04.

modified them in several days. Firstly we have armed themselves a

:38:05.:38:07.

can recognise and kill leukaemia cells when they are back in the

:38:08.:38:11.

body, secondly we have neutered them by taking away their own centres so

:38:12.:38:16.

they can't cause harm by recognising normal tissues. Thirdly we have

:38:17.:38:21.

taken away a molecule on their surface which effectively means they

:38:22.:38:24.

are invisible to one of the very strong drugs were used when we treat

:38:25.:38:28.

patients with leukaemia and get them ready for treatments like

:38:29.:38:33.

transplantation. She was so weak before this treatment. It was just

:38:34.:38:39.

horrible. It is a miracle. This was a huge experiment. We were not

:38:40.:38:43.

expecting the good result but we have seen. Layla is very tough, she

:38:44.:38:49.

has coped with this treatment, other children may not be able to do it in

:38:50.:38:54.

the same way. We are delighted and amaze. There always has to be a

:38:55.:38:59.

first, we beg them to try. How do you know if you never try? Here is

:39:00.:39:01.

the first. We can speak to Dr George Vassiliou,

:39:02.:39:03.

from the Thanks for joining us. What are your

:39:04.:39:14.

thoughts? How much of a breakthrough is this, potentially? It is a

:39:15.:39:19.

landmark, it has the ten sure to change treatment for many patients

:39:20.:39:23.

with leukaemia, turning curable diseases into curable. It has been

:39:24.:39:29.

done in this little girl. It is the first time it has happened. What is

:39:30.:39:36.

the difference between something being done in this way and it

:39:37.:39:39.

rolling out to something that could offer hope to so many? To help your

:39:40.:39:46.

viewers understand what was Julie Dunn, I will start by saying that

:39:47.:39:52.

this treatment is not dissimilar to bone marrow transplantation --

:39:53.:39:56.

understand what was actually done. In a bone marrow transplant you get

:39:57.:39:59.

cells from a donor and give them to a patient, they include T cells.

:40:00.:40:05.

Those cells have the ability to identify leukaemia cells and kill

:40:06.:40:08.

them, and they do in many patients but, in fortunately, not in every

:40:09.:40:17.

patient. Some cancers and particular are resistant. But these cells have

:40:18.:40:23.

first been modified to point them to the leukaemia cells and in order to

:40:24.:40:30.

make them safe for the individual. This type of treatment has been

:40:31.:40:34.

started in the last two years, but up until now the cells had to be

:40:35.:40:40.

taken out of the patient themselves. Modified et cetera, then put back

:40:41.:40:44.

into the patient. That cannot be done for some patients because they

:40:45.:40:48.

do not have enough cells, in their ill state, for them to be

:40:49.:40:51.

manipulated. And it takes a very long time to take cells out, modify

:40:52.:40:58.

them and put them back. The doctors and scientists at Great Ormond

:40:59.:41:01.

Street Hospital in cells from a donor that can be ready to be

:41:02.:41:08.

given, potentially, to a number of people, not all people, but many

:41:09.:41:13.

people, so it can turn something laboratories, difficult and only

:41:14.:41:16.

applicable in some cases into something more broadly applicable,

:41:17.:41:19.

and I can see that extending to other patients with ease in

:41:20.:41:25.

diseases. What sort of timescale are you thinking? The doctor that great

:41:26.:41:31.

all were planning phase one study, these things all had to be done

:41:32.:41:36.

safely. In their agenda is a study of ten to 15 patients next year. If

:41:37.:41:42.

I compare these to the beginnings of bone marrow transplantation, the

:41:43.:41:46.

progress can be quite rapid and it would be looking at treating

:41:47.:41:51.

patients in the context of carefully controlled trials in the UK within

:41:52.:41:56.

next two to three years. It is a much faster progress than that we

:41:57.:42:01.

have seen with medicinal compounds, partly because it is similar to

:42:02.:42:05.

establish techniques like bone marrow transplantation. We know a

:42:06.:42:11.

lot about it and we can introduce safety and checks to make sure it is

:42:12.:42:16.

given safely to patients. Thank you very much for joining us.

:42:17.:42:21.

A conversation between Mullaly use of sire and the actress Emma Watson

:42:22.:42:28.

is being widely shared on social media today. It was filmed at the

:42:29.:42:33.

premiere of a film which has been made about Malala. Feminism is a

:42:34.:42:42.

very tricky word. The first time I heard it, I had negative responses

:42:43.:42:47.

and some positive ones. I hesitated in saying and I are feminist or not?

:42:48.:42:51.

And then after hearing your speech when you said if not now, when? If

:42:52.:42:57.

not me, who? I decided there is no way and there is nothing wrong by

:42:58.:43:01.

calling yourself a feminist, so I am a feminist and you all should be

:43:02.:43:05.

feminist, because feminism is another word for quality. I am so

:43:06.:43:10.

moved to hear that. That is absolutely amazing. I agree with

:43:11.:43:14.

you. It has become this really difficult word, but it is wonderful

:43:15.:43:18.

when people embrace it, because it should be synonymous with equality.

:43:19.:43:24.

Let's bring you a bit more on the situation with Sharm el-Sheikh our

:43:25.:43:28.

port. It is a confusing picture this morning. We have some copy that

:43:29.:43:32.

deems to be definitive, telling us the situation regarding flights

:43:33.:43:37.

getting out to Sharm el-Sheikh to bring back at unjust. Egyptian

:43:38.:43:40.

authorities have granted all UK airlines permission to have eight

:43:41.:43:44.

departures today, eight in total. Eight flights will go from here to

:43:45.:43:51.

Sharm el-Sheikh to bring Brits back, hopefully. I will be back on Monday.

:43:52.:43:54.

Have a lovely weekend. Goodbye.

:43:55.:43:57.

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