Browse content similar to 06/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, it's Friday, it's 9:15am. I'm Joanna Gosling, welcome to the | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
programme. We exclusively reveal why more than | :00:12. | :00:12. | |
a hundred British Uber drivers are looking to take legal action against | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
The only problem is that if you are not working, you are not earning. | :00:16. | :00:30. | |
And the earnings are so much lower than I expected. And it's really | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
starting to bite, now. The first British holidaymakers are | :00:34. | :00:34. | |
due to arrive back from Sharm But passengers will only be | :00:35. | :00:37. | |
allowed to carry on hand luggage. We'll take a look at why | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
security is being stepped up. And we meet the women hoping to take | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
part in a trial which will result in the first womb transplants to be | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
carried out here in the UK. We're on BBC Two and the BBC News | :00:49. | :01:02. | |
Channel until 11am this morning. Ahead we'll bring you | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
the latest from Sharm as airlines start to bring British holidaymakers | :01:08. | :01:10. | |
home after flights were cancelled over fears a bomb may have caused | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
a Russian plane to crash. Security has been tightened | :01:15. | :01:19. | |
and hold luggage will be We are starting to hear of confusion | :01:20. | :01:32. | |
at the airport as passengers wait for flights, we will keep you | :01:33. | :01:33. | |
updated. We'd like to hear | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
from you throughout the programme. Texts will be charged | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
at the standard network rate. And, of course, you can watch | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
the programme online wherever you are via the BBC News app or | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
our website, bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
our features on the news app, by going to "add topics" | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
and searching "Victoria Derbyshire." First this morning, the taxi company | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
Uber is worth billions of pounds. The firm, based in the US, | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
runs a smartphone app which allows users to hail a cab | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
at the touch of the button. But what about the drivers? More | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
than 100 richest drivers are looking to take legal action against the | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
company. -- more than 100 at Icher drivers. | :02:16. | :02:16. | |
The drivers are currently treated as self-employed, | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it. | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
It's easy to lose a sense of connection living in a city... | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
But when you bring people together... | :02:26. | :02:26. | |
It's happening on the ground and around the world every day. | :02:27. | :02:32. | |
Whatever you think of Uber, you can't say it's short of | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
The tech company was founded just six years ago in San Francisco. | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
It's now worth ?30 billion and growing fast. | :02:38. | :02:41. | |
Uber's mission is to go to every major city in the world and roll-out | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
an efficient, convenient, elegant transportation system. | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
I like to think that Uber is creating | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
Uber started off in London and now it's in nine or ten big | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
The idea, the boss says, is to be in every single major UK | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
If you haven't used it before, this is how it works. | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
So you turn your smartphone on, and the first thing you see is | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
And you select where you want to be picked up from, | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
and then it sends it all out to other Uber drivers in the area. | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
One of them can accept that and brings up a photo of | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
the driver, the car, the registration plate and says how long | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
Like I say, in this case, four minutes, and you just go down to the | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
But in this brave new world, not everyone is happy. | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
James Farrar has been an Uber driver for almost a year. | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
Like all the others, he is self-employed. | :03:45. | :03:46. | |
Now he's part of the group taking legal action against the company | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
You know, you can switch on the app and work whenever you want, you can | :03:50. | :04:01. | |
The only problem is that if you're not working, you're not earning. | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
And the earnings are so much lower than I expected, and | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
And you're noticing a change, are you? | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
Is it now more difficult to make money now, in your mind, | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
The effect is that, though, you know, there's a certain amount | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
of money you need to earn each day, and you just had to stay out longer | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
The main problem, says James, is the number of cars on the street. | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
Since last year, the number of British drivers Uber's books has | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
At the same time, Uber has cut the fares that customers pay | :04:39. | :04:47. | |
and next week will increase the commission it takes from new | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
My average net in July was ?5.03 and hour, well below minimum wage. | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
So if you want to cover your costs and keep the family afloat, | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
But, at the end of the day, it's your choice, right? | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
I mean, you don't have to work for Uber. | :05:08. | :05:09. | |
You could work for someone else, get another job. | :05:10. | :05:17. | |
Yeah, it's true, but Uber has still aggressively come | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
into the market, I think those opportunities to work for other | :05:21. | :05:22. | |
James and the other drivers involved in the legal action say the way Uber | :05:23. | :05:31. | |
operates means they're not really self-employed entrepreneurs at all, | :05:32. | :05:33. | |
but working for the company, and so should get | :05:34. | :05:35. | |
Lawyers say more than 100 Uber drivers, backed by the GMB union, | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
are now looking to take similar action, with the first case is | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
What we want to do is make sure that these drivers get workers rights, | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
so it's the rights that anybody who works is entitled to. | :05:50. | :05:51. | |
And were talking about things like minimum wage, the right to | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
A lot of these drivers work 50, 60, 70 hours per week. | :05:55. | :06:06. | |
They should be entitled to paid time off for doing that work. | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
It's great that these new technology companies exist, butt all we're | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
asking is that they treat people who work for them in the same way that | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
At the centre of this row is the relationship between Uber | :06:21. | :06:30. | |
We've been passed copies of the contracts which drivers now have | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
to sign, and what is interesting is if you compare the contracts these | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
days from the earlier ones from a couple of years ago, so | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
Now the new contracts are at pains to point out there is no | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
partnership between both sides and, in fact, rather confusingly, drivers | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
These documents also set out the terms under | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
which a driver can be deactivated from the system, as they put it. | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
So you're no longer sacked under this arrangement, | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
And that includes things like dropping below a certain star | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
rating, as set by the people in the back of your car, and also here | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
if you say anything that may cause harm to Uber's brand, reputation or | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
business, so presumably that means if a driver says anything | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
disparaging about the company, under these terms and conditions they can | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
Being able to log on and log off as I please. | :07:17. | :07:26. | |
It is only a small number taking legal action | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
and there will, of course, be many happy Uber drivers, as company | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
You can't work whenever you want. The money is going directly into my | :07:35. | :07:48. | |
account. At Uber's new headquarters in London skyscraper, the boss says | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
this way of working is about choice. Many of our drivers have moved from | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
traditional jobs where they had to work described shifts and a certain | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
number of hours a week and it was difficult to take time off, they | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
have chosen to work with Uber because about flexibility. The fact | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
you can work literally whenever you want, that is the flexibility they | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
are looking for. But can't you have that and have write like holiday pay | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
and the minimum wage? Looking at what drivers take home is something | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
we look at very carefully. Most of the drivers using the Apple actually | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
take home around ?15 or ?16 an hour. BC their costs vary hugely depending | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
on whether they rent or own and a number of other factors, but the | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
majority are making around ?10 or ?12 an hour after those costs. It is | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
an injustice, and injustice would Uber is doing to you. But this is | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
not the first anger about Uber and the way it works. There have been | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
small-scale demonstrations in the US. Last month there was a strike by | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
drivers that overpay. It would appear the impact was limited. | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
In this country, it is not easy to get a sense of how many drivers are | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
unhappy, but we tried anyway with a small unscientific test. Can I get | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
in the front, is that OK? Over one afternoon, we took five short Uber | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
rides across London as normal passengers. We asked each of the | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
drivers about the company, their job and the money they were taking home. | :09:18. | :09:24. | |
We are not pretending it was scientific, that of the drivers we | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
spoke to, two said they liked the flexibility of Uber and had no real | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
concerns. One said he was very happy with the arrangement, with no | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
downside, really. Another said the only reason his old colleagues are | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
not signing up is because they would have to start paying tax. But two of | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
the drivers we spoke to were worried about income is being squeezed. One | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
said it is harder to make money because there are too many drivers | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
that are. And from another, it is about time Uber took responsibility | :09:56. | :09:59. | |
like a proper empire. Is there a danger that Uber is a | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
company that wants to have its cake and eat it? You want to treat these | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
drivers are self-employed entrepreneurs, that on the other | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
hand tell them exactly what to do. Uber drivers are free to work | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
whenever and wherever they want. So long as they live up to the quality | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
standards on the platform. I don't know of any of the opportunities | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
that are so flexible. So the future of transportation, maybe. But this | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
row is bigger than that. Some people think the way Uber does business | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
could be a model not just for cab companies bid for the rest of the | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
economy. And if this happens, this one firm could change far more than | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
the way we get home on a wet Friday night. | :10:42. | :10:44. | |
You can watch and share Jim Reed's exclusive investigation | :10:45. | :10:46. | |
by going to our programme page - that's at bbc.co.uk/Victoria. | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
Comments coming in from you on this. An anonymous text says, as a | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
taxi driver for 15 years in Leeds, all I have seen is more taxis older | :10:57. | :11:03. | |
than all others. They undercut everyone by offering discounts and | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
subsequently work has gone down overall by nearly 50%, and this for | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
a 20% commission. Nate on Facebook, if they are complaining about | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
conditions, how rubbish their cars? Another person says they have | :11:18. | :11:19. | |
friends in the USA who almost lost everything because of Uber. | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
We'll have the latest on the security crisis at Sharm | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
el-Sheikh Airport where stranded Brits are preparing to fly home. | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
And we'll meet three women hoping to benefit from pioneering womb | :11:33. | :11:34. | |
transplant surgery to give them a chance of having children. | :11:35. | :11:42. | |
More details are emerging about the reasons behind the Government's | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
decision to restrict flights to Sharm el-Sheikh following the | :11:47. | :11:48. | |
It's understood British investigators believe an explosive | :11:49. | :11:56. | |
device was place in the hold of the aircraft some time before take-off. | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
The Government is said to have received new information | :12:00. | :12:01. | |
on Wednesday, based on so-called chatter picked up | :12:02. | :12:03. | |
Thousands of British tourists stranded in Sharm el-Sheikh will be | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
flown home today, two days after flights to and from the resort were | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
Scheduled flights remain suspended but planes are being laid on | :12:12. | :12:19. | |
especially. Passengers will only be allowed to | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
take hand luggage on board, with the Government arranging to | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
take the rest Obviously were faced with a | :12:26. | :12:32. | |
situation where we had serious concerns about the incident as far | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
as the Russian plane last Saturday was concerned. We wanted to put in | :12:37. | :12:39. | |
place to get as many people back as quickly as we could in light with | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
the fact that yesterday was a big changeover day. There should have | :12:45. | :12:47. | |
been around 15 flights yesterday, which were all cancelled. It was a | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
matter of how do we give it in the safest way to reassure ourselves, | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
and for the safety of those passengers, that we put these | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
particular restrictions into operation. There is some confusion, | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
it seems, at Sharm el-Sheikh. We have been speaking to one passenger | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
who is due to be on the easyJet flight to Gatwick from Sharm | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
el-Sheikh, due to leave at 11am local time, nine o'clock our time, | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
should have already left. He has been told he will not get away until | :13:21. | :13:28. | |
7pm local time, 5pm our time, and even that is not certain. He still | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
has his luggage with him. That is one passenger who was due to go on | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
the easyJet flight, due to be the first flight out today. It seems it | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
has been delayed. We are trying to get into it with easyJet and will | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
keep you updated. -- trying to get into virtual is easyJet. | :13:47. | :13:47. | |
Lawyers say that more than 100 British drivers for the high-tech | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
taxi company Uber are looking to take legal action against it. | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
The firm, based in the US, runs a smartphone app | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
which allows users to hail a cab at the touch of the button. | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
The drivers are currently treated as self-employed, | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it. | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
The personal details of more than 150,000 customers and more than | :14:04. | :14:05. | |
15,000 bank details were accessed by hackers in last month's cyber | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
The telecoms company insists the information accessed can't, | :14:09. | :14:14. | |
Universities in England who prove they offer high-quality | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
teaching could be allowed to raise tuition fees above ?9,000 | :14:21. | :14:22. | |
Universities Minister Jo Johnson says students should have better | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
Sir Cliff Richard has been interviewed for a second time | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
by police investigating alleged sexual assaults three decades ago. | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
A spokesman for the singer confirmed he has been interviewed voluntarily | :14:38. | :14:39. | |
He was not arrested or charged, and he continues to describe the claims | :14:40. | :14:46. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh. | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
It's all about the magic of the Cup today, Hugh. | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
Good morning. The magic of the cup this weekend. First round proper. I | :15:00. | :15:06. | |
will be talking to one of written's newest reality TV stars. | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
You may have seen the documentary Class of '92 - Out of their League | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
It chronicles the takeover of Salford City Football Club | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
by former Manchester United stars Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Nicky Butt | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
They've managed to turn the club's fortunes around, and get promotion, | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
as they try to achieve the dream of becoming a Football League Club. | :15:24. | :15:26. | |
And tonight they'll have an historic first ever appearance in the first | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
They have a very tough task playing Notts County who are three | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
But we'll be talking to star striker Gareth Seddon about what it's been | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
like being on the show, the added pressure that comes from all the new | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
media attention and what it's been like to have the Class of '92 | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
watching his every move, both on and off the field. | :15:45. | :15:46. | |
Competition for me today! Join us at just after 10am. | :15:47. | :15:59. | |
Thousands of tourists are hoping to come home from Sharm el-Sheikh | :16:00. | :16:01. | |
later today, with airlines expected to run special flights | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
EasyJet says nine flights could operate, | :16:05. | :16:07. | |
The Foreign Office said it hoped the flights would go ahead, but security | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
There is some confusion at Sharm el-Sheikh about what time the | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
flights are likely to take off. Yesterday, | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
the Prime Minister says it's more likely than not that a terrorist | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
bomb brought down a Russian airliner Investigators | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
in Britain's security service suspect someone with access to | :16:29. | :16:31. | |
the aircraft's baggage compartment inserted an explosive device | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
inside or on top of the luggage just That comes from intercepted | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
communications between militants in the Sinai where | :16:39. | :16:51. | |
the plane came down. But Egypt says that's | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
just propaganda. But the British Government has put | :16:54. | :16:54. | |
in place extra safety measures which means British tourists will be | :16:55. | :16:57. | |
flying back with only hand luggage. Larger luggage that would normally | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
be checked into the hold of a plane The Transport Secretary, | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
Patrick McLoughlin, explained why these extra security | :17:04. | :17:05. | |
measures had been imposed. We were faced with a situation where | :17:06. | :17:17. | |
we had serious concerns about the incident as far as the Russian plane | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
last Saturday was concerned and we wanted to put in place to get as | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
many people back as quickly as we could in line with the fact that | :17:26. | :17:29. | |
yesterday was a big changeover day. There should have been around 15 | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
flights yesterday which were all cancelled. It was a matter of, how | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
do we do it in the safest way to real -- to reassure ourselves that | :17:38. | :17:44. | |
we put particular restrictions into operation? | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
Other countries share Britain's concerns. | :17:48. | :17:48. | |
We have spent a lot of time making sure our own investigators and | :17:49. | :17:57. | |
intelligence community figures out what is going on before we make any | :17:58. | :18:03. | |
definitive pronouncements. It is certainly possible there was a bomb | :18:04. | :18:05. | |
on board. Alastair Rosenschein is a former | :18:06. | :18:11. | |
British Airways pilot. Thank you for coming in. Is it always obvious to | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
pilots when security is not up to scratch? Yes. The pilots and cabin | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
crew go through the same security checks as the passengers. We go to | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
many airports around the world on a regular basis. You notice when | :18:27. | :18:30. | |
security is not as tight in some places as in another. When you fly | :18:31. | :18:34. | |
to certain destinations where you know there is a history of terrorist | :18:35. | :18:39. | |
attacks or you know there is insurgency and political differences | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
or religious ones, you are a little bit more aware of the security. In | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
this case, Sharm el-Sheikh, it is not that far from a major conflict | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
zone and there have been attacks there before. Ten years previously. | :18:57. | :19:01. | |
Would you feel nervous as a pilot going in and out of airports where | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
security is not up to scratch? No, nervous is not the word I would use, | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
alert is a better description. You look at the people around the | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
aircraft, you look at baggage lying around. We are doing the same as | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
what passengers would do, pay more attention to everything around you | :19:20. | :19:24. | |
from a security point of view. In the end, everyone is in the hands of | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
the people in charge of security? Absolutely. We still employing | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
people in security, not just in this country, around the, on what is | :19:34. | :19:39. | |
effectively a minimum wage. -- around the world. You pay people | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
very little and you will get that standard. I am not saying all | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
security staff of pork, most are very good. But you also have to | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
recognise in some countries where they play considerably more, where | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
they recruit from a higher level of academic background, you get better | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
is curative -- I am not saying all security staff are poor. You get | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
better security. The job has changed a great deal from when I started in | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
the 70s until when I retired in 2005. I was airborne in the 9/11 | :20:15. | :20:22. | |
incident, coming back from Tokyo. After that, everything changed | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
dramatically. At that point, security became a really significant | :20:26. | :20:34. | |
part of the job. Not least you can no longer have visitors on the | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
flight deck, we restrict visits to the cabin, the door is locked. It | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
focuses your mind on security. Is it something discussed among the people | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
working on the plane? Yes. In what way? How you might deal with it. In | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
the past, instructions went out to flight crew to always do what a | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
hijacker says, be compliant. After 9/11, everything changed. In the | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
end, there is nothing that a pilot can do if you are feeling concerned | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
when you are going through security and you get on the plane and you | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
have been nervous and you know somewhere has got a record of their | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
being security issues? I cannot say I was ever nervous from a security | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
point of view, as you said. Slightly more alert. If we thought at any | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
time that our aircraft was not fully safe and secure, of course we would | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
do something about it. We are not in a position to make those security | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
judgment calls. It would not be clear to the pilot about what is | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
going on? Not at all. I will tell you a funny story. Shortly after | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
9/11, I was on my way to New York and I boarded the aircraft and as we | :21:54. | :21:56. | |
walked through the upper deck, there were a number of gentlemen wearing | :21:57. | :22:01. | |
the same sort of clothes you might associate with the Taliban in | :22:02. | :22:05. | |
Afghanistan. We got into the flight deck and I turned to my colleague | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
and I said, what do you think the group... ? He said, they look dodgy. | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
I said, I will go back and have a chat with them. I tried to think | :22:16. | :22:19. | |
what I might say to them going back and I came up with something. I | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
said, we are very lucky to have nice seats appear. Are you going on | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
holiday or business? -- up here. In perfect English, we are a group of | :22:31. | :22:36. | |
consultant doctors going to a medical conference. My prejudice is | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
out the window! You are talking about the prejudices that came in | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
and the jitteriness that came in. Would you expect people working on | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
the flights to be more jittery after what has happened now? After any | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
incident, people are more alert. They are more concerned about it. | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
After a little while, a few months go by, they become complacent again. | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
It is dangerous. Both in terms of security staff, airline crews, and | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
the travelling public. We cannot afford in this day and age to be | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
complacent about any security issues. You remind me of what it | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
used to be like in London, it has happened over the years, high alert | :23:19. | :23:26. | |
over abandoned rides. Is that the sort of thing you are talking about? | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
-- bags. Are there things people should not be complacent about? You | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
are right. The sort of thing is the travelling public should look out | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
for our unattended bags, leaving your own bag unattended. You must | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
pack your bag yourself and take it with you and it must be next to you | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
at all times. If it is not with you, there is a security implication. | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
Somebody can get access to it. We know from a previous incident at | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
Heathrow Airport that an Irish woman's boyfriend who in fact was a | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
Middle Eastern terrorist placed a bomb in her bag and she was pregnant | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
as well with his child. The security at Heathrow which is very good | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
spotted this and avoided an absolute catastrophe. Once the baggage goes | :24:17. | :24:24. | |
through the checks, it goes through various procedures and gets on the | :24:25. | :24:27. | |
flight, from what you know of the way it works, can you see an obvious | :24:28. | :24:32. | |
point at which a bomb could be put on and not be detected? There are | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
some focus on the cargo which is more commonly flown on passenger | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
planes than perhaps it used to be. Airlines make money from carrying | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
passengers and bags and also cargo and that makes up a very important | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
part of the revenue stream. But there are certain checks done on | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
cargo and I cannot really go into them. What I know about it is that | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
there security checks done it. The real weak link of the personnel. Who | :25:00. | :25:06. | |
is allowed air side, the other side of security? Our work is going | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
through the same security checks as they come to work as the travelling | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
passengers and flight crew? I can say with absolute certainty that | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
many airfields in the world, this is not happening, they are not taking | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
it seriously with regular staff. What background checks are done on | :25:26. | :25:29. | |
the staff? Airline security is as safe as the weakest airport that it | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
flies to around the world. That is an issue. It is impossible to get | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
complete security. Everybody in the industry knows this. You try to do | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
the best you can. The best you can is not always being done at all | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
destinations. Some of those passengers stranded have been | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
talking about how they are feeling a bit nervous about the prospect of | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
coming back. Would you expect that to translate to everybody on the | :25:57. | :26:01. | |
plane 's? I am sure I would feel nervous if I was in Sharm el-Sheikh | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
right now. The focus now is on security, no bags going on board the | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
aircraft. I can assure you that they are probably safer than any other | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
place that any of the airlines fly to at the moment. Sharm el-Sheikh | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
will be safe right now, no chance will be taken. There will be greater | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
focus. After any incident, everybody becomes more alert, more aware, | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
takes their job more seriously as far as security is concerned. After | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
a period of time is concerned, the complacency comes back. Ten years | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
since the major terrorist incident at Sharm el-Sheikh were several | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
bombs killed quite a few people. Security changes are made, liquids | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
have been banned on flights, since 9/11. That is still in force. It is | :26:50. | :26:56. | |
a dramatic measure to say that passengers cannot take their hold | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
luggage on the plane. If they cannot be sure of security, how long might | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
that situation in Jura? We are talking explosives, they come in | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
different forms, solids, malleable, liquids -- in duration. That is why | :27:14. | :27:21. | |
they have a ban on liquids, only small quantities allowed on board. | :27:22. | :27:26. | |
There were previous incidents or likely to be incidents. We had the | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
shoe bomber, a bomb in his shoe, he was so incompetent that he was | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
unable to detonate it, thank goodness. One has to try and be as | :27:35. | :27:41. | |
secure as possible. And still allow people to continue living normally | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
in an open society which is what we live in, and open society. The | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
enemies of an open society create the problem, people who do not like | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
the way we live, our freedom of speech, way of life, they want to | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
change it. If we increase security to a certain point, we will no | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
longer live in an open society, we will live in a closed one where | :28:05. | :28:08. | |
people no longer have freedom of speech and movement. There is a risk | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
and we take that risk and we accept the risk. Alastair Rosenschein, | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
thank you very much. Coming up... A gay clergyman | :28:15. | :28:25. | |
prevented from coming a hospital chaplain tells us how disappointed | :28:26. | :28:26. | |
he is to lose a discrimination case. More than 500 women say they want to | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
take part in a trial which will see the first ever womb transplants | :28:33. | :28:36. | |
carried out here in the UK. Doctors were given | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
the go-head just over four weeks ago to perform the first ten operations | :28:40. | :28:41. | |
following success in Sweden. In a moment, we'll talk to three | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
women who are all hoping to be the some of the first in | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
the country to have the procedure. Here with us are three women hoping | :28:48. | :29:43. | |
to be some of the first Lauren Fowler and Sophie Lewis were | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
both born without a womb and Rachel Edmonds had a hysterectomy | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
nearly ninA years ago because her It's the first time they've | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
all met each other. Also here is Richard Smith, | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
a consultant gynaecologist at the Queen Charlotte's and Chelsea | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
Hospital in London who has been Thank you all for coming in. Good to | :30:04. | :30:19. | |
have you here. Lauren and Sophie, I said you were born without a womb, | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
tell us when you first knew that that was the case? I was 15, a month | :30:23. | :30:30. | |
off my 16th birthday. I went to the GP surgery and they referred me for | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
investigated surgery, because ultrasounds had shown up nothing | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
conclusive. When I had those procedures they found I had a | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
syndrome which meant I was born without the womb. How did you feel? | :30:45. | :30:49. | |
Devastated. Even though I was 15, it pulled my world apart at the time. I | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
knew what it meant. I knew what the future was going to, basically, | :30:57. | :31:02. | |
holding some shape or form. Sophie? Similar story, I was 16, I didn't | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
have my period, so my mum took me to the doctors. After ultrasounds as | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
well, laparoscopy, it transpired I had no womb. And the same sort of | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
feeling. Obviously at the age of 16 you are not really thinking about a | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
family so much as doing your GCSEs and having fun with your friends, | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
but it is the realisation that it will be difficult to have children | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
in the future. Shock outburst, upset, then you deal with it. As you | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
get older, it is more of a realisation that it will be | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
difficult. Rachel, you are in a slightly different position in that | :31:40. | :31:44. | |
you have no womb as the result of a hysterectomy. What happened? From my | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
very first period I was in excruciating pain, I struggled for | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
all might teenage years, and in my 20s it got so much worse. I had | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
multiple laparoscopy is which bound endometriosis. That was not the main | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
problem, I had multiple fibroids and endometrial cis within the actual | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
body of the womb. I had a real issue with the womb to the point that I | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
could not get out of bed because the pain was so bad, I had a hot water | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
bottle strapped to me every day for years, constant painkillers, it was | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
excruciating. My surgeon worked with me and we try to find everything we | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
possibly could to help you, and nothing worked, so a 206I had to | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
make the heartbreaking decision that I could not live like this any more, | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
I had to have it removed. -- so at the age of 26. Knowing I would never | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
be able to have my own child. But at that point I did not have a life, I | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
could not get out of bed, the pain was so unbearable. Now the pain has | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
gone, you can focus on what it has meant in the long run? It is so hard | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
to remember the pain, I'd like that part of my life out, you don't want | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
to remember pain, so I had days when I think, do they do the right | :33:03. | :33:06. | |
thing? -- I blanked that part of my life out. But friends and family | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
reminds me of how bad it was, so I know I made the right decision, that | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
I have just got married and you think the next logical step is to | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
have the family, that is not an option for me until, maybe, now. | :33:19. | :33:23. | |
Here is the man who might be able to change things for you and other. | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
Richard, you have worked done this for 19 years, and the go-ahead has | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
finally been given. Talk us through? We have a big team of people. A few | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
weeks ago we got ethics committee approval, we need to go through a | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
process of selection now, and we have a separate committee for that. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
So that we select appropriate patients. The three people here this | :33:47. | :33:55. | |
morning very much epitomise the tragic stories, really, of the | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
bigger group of people who have come to us. How many have come to you? We | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
had over 200 people on our list month ago, since we made the | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
announcement about the ethics committee approval, it is over 500. | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
So lots of women on the list. How many will you take forward? In this | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
first series, we have ethics committee approval to perform ten | :34:21. | :34:24. | |
transplants, we expect to do that over two years, hoping to start next | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
year. Who will you choose? -- how would you choose? Everybody has a | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
heartbreaking story. Absolutely right. Partly because of that... I | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
have met many, many women in my clinic at Charing Cross, and the | :34:41. | :34:44. | |
selection process, it is impossible for somebody like me who meets | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
everybody to be the arbiter. We have actually followed very much the | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
Swedish model that they used, they had a stratification process, and we | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
have a separate committee which has lay members and nursing members, as | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
well as medical, that'll be part of the process. What have you freed in | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
so far in terms of being part of the process, and how much you are aware | :35:10. | :35:14. | |
of what is required? When I first found out I made contact. A | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
gentleman replied asking me questions about my background, that | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
was the first initial process, and more recently there has been a much | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
more in-depth questionnaire, medical questionnaire, that is as far as it | :35:28. | :35:30. | |
has gone at this point in time. Sophie? Miners is a random story. I | :35:31. | :35:38. | |
wanted to run the London Marathon, but I wanted to run for a charity | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
that meant something to me, so I contacted so many adoption, | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
surrogacy, IVF charities and I sort of just stumbled across the | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
hospital. I registered my interest and they said, unfortunately we can | :35:53. | :35:59. | |
provide... Sponsor you, but you could run for hours. At the time | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
they said, do you want to chat about your condition, there is something | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
we want to talk to you about. I put it for quite a few months, I was not | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
sure if I wanted to speak about condition. I plucked up courage, | :36:13. | :36:19. | |
went and had a chat, found out all transplants and I knew instantly | :36:20. | :36:22. | |
this was something I was really, really interested in. Had you | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
previously been contemplating adoption surrogacy? They are your | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
next steps. If you want children, you go down the surrogacy or | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
adoption route. I would still not rule that out. If I don't get picked | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
for the transplant I would go down those avenues. They are worthwhile | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
ways of doing it. It is just that this is more appealing, to be able | :36:45. | :36:49. | |
to carry your own child is a huge gift for a woman. To be able to do | :36:50. | :36:55. | |
that would be incredible. Lauren, when you heard about the womb | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
transplants, what did you think about the possibility of carrying | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
your own child? It was amazing. It felt surreal. I have followed it | :37:04. | :37:09. | |
since I was about 15, I had heard of it, they had been trying it in | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
Turkey, I think. I had followed the once done in Sweden for a long time | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
and seen their failures, and obviously we have seen their great | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
success. So I was very aware. But, like Sophie, I had been following | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
surrogacy and done a lot of research on it. But to know that there is a | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
chance that can child bear ourselves, it overrules every | :37:33. | :37:35. | |
option. It is not an easy option, Richard. Talk us through how this | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
procedure will work and how difficult it will be, not just for | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
the surgeons but the women having the transplant? The process will | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
start, the selected group will be on the list and they will need to be | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
available over a 1 to two year period to be called when appropriate | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
organs become available. So what amount of notice could that be? At | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
the point where it happens will probably be 24 hours. So people will | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
either carry a pager or be available by phone, they will get that call, | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
and at that point they will have 24 hours to get to the place where the | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
plantation will take place. We are intending to retrieve the organs | :38:19. | :38:27. | |
from heart beating, brain dead donors, which is different from the | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
Swedish, for used breathing donors, but the process is the same. They | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
expect to take you know suppressive therapy and be rejected -- and be | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
observed for year for signs of rejection. If everything is going | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
well, and embryo transfer will take place. Everyone will have to have | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
had a minimum number of embryos derived from their own eggs, stored | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
in cold storage before they go through the transplantation process. | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
Then they will have the embryo transfer, and hopefully | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
approximately nine months later a Caesarean section. They'd be | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
delivered. Then six months after that they will have a choice of | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
whether to have one more child oughta have a completion his threat | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
me. The reason for the completion hysterectomy is to minimise the | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
exposer to Unison and therapy. There will be for two to three years, or | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
maybe four or five, rather than other organs, where it is lifelong | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
exposure. It sounds gruelling. Why are you prepared to put yourself | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
through something like that for the ability to be able to carry your own | :39:37. | :39:44. | |
child? How important is it for you? This has given us hope, we never had | :39:45. | :39:48. | |
that before. This is huge. I feel like you become a mum when you start | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
to try to conceive, you do all the right things to make your body | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
prepare for pregnancy and everything, that is when you become | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
a mum. To carry my own child means the world to me. Compared to the | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
surgery I have had already, I am not fazed by this at all. I will do | :40:06. | :40:10. | |
everything to care for that child from in utero, and to be a mum. You | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
have already said how much it would mean to you, Sophie? To feel a child | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
growing inside you, watching your body change shape, that is all part | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
of the pregnancy. Just to create the bond with a child. I don't think | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
words can explain it, it is a huge gift. From being told that the age | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
of 16 that your roots are surrogacy and adoption, two, ten or 15 years | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
down the line, being told there is a possibility you can carry your own | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
child, it is incredible, there are no words. Richard, we have a | :40:46. | :40:53. | |
question from Doctor Gill on Twitter, will female babies from | :40:54. | :40:58. | |
womb transplants be more likely to inherit the same conditions? That is | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
a very good question. There is no evidence for that. Obviously there | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
is a lot updated through surrogacy from women who have had this | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
syndrome, it is not the suggestion at all. What about the unions and | :41:13. | :41:20. | |
drugs and how they might impact? There is a vast experience of | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
immunosuppressant drugs in real and -- renal transplant patients, tens | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
of thousands of women who have had kidney transplants have gone on to | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
have babies, the excess risk to babies is less the 1%, it is very | :41:33. | :41:38. | |
minimal. It is a commonly asked question, there is the perception | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
that it is high risk, but that is untrue, it is only a slight | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
increase. This has been 19 years of your life, how do you feel about it. | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
You are sitting here with Lauren, Sophie and Rachel, three people for | :41:53. | :41:54. | |
whom the work you are doing could change their world. Humbled, I had | :41:55. | :42:01. | |
to say, is how I feel. You guys are all very, very brave to be here this | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
morning. The whole process we are going through, I know, is very | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
fraught, for all of us. Lauren, how do you feel at the start, | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
potentially, of what will be a difficult journey for those | :42:18. | :42:21. | |
embarking on at about what it will entail and whether you really could | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
be up for that? I am excited. This will change not only, possibly, mine | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
and these two lovely ladies' lives, but for many women in the country, | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
hopefully, one day. The hope of the dream coming true, the final stage | :42:37. | :42:42. | |
of it, it outweighs all the negatives and the worry that come | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
along with it. But maybe the blob watching who might be thinking, as | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
we have already discussed, surrogacy and adoption are options. -- maybe | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
people are watching. You would be putting yourself through a very | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
difficult surgery and a very difficult period of time for | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
something that is not a life-threatening condition. What | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
would you say to those people? I don't think they can make a | :43:10. | :43:13. | |
judgment. People make judgments on it, they say, you're putting | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
yourself at risk, but until you have been in our shoes you will never | :43:18. | :43:22. | |
know the need or the want to child by yourself. Surrogacy itself is not | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
easy. It is a long, long path, just like adoption, and it comes at a | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
very high cost. You have got the whole legal side of it and there is | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
a risk that, at the end, the surrogates can keep that child. | :43:35. | :43:40. | |
There is a risk that that moment, the Sara get mum, can actually say, | :43:41. | :43:46. | |
due know what, I want this baby. -- the surrogates mum. Is the desire to | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
carry a child always in your mind, Rachel? Yes, it has been there ever | :43:50. | :43:56. | |
since I made the decision, which I had to make myself, which meant I | :43:57. | :44:00. | |
cannot do that. It was so gut-wrenching. Especially since I | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
got married. I am asked on a daily basis, when would you have kids? I | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
Facebook page started advertising hits' clothes as soon as I changed | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
my status to married. Everyday I am reminded I cannot have a child. How | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
are your families about the situation? There must be | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
difficulties for them and sensitivities? Obviously, for my | :44:22. | :44:29. | |
mum, and probably their mums, it is difficult to see your child has to | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
go through that. There is always the fear, it is a huge operation, will | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
it all be OK? My family, personally, has been amazingly supportive. My | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
fiance has been there for me through the whole process. I think that | :44:46. | :44:50. | |
supports keeps you going. It is amazing. Friends and family, my | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
friends have been overwhelming, the amount of support they have given | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
me. Richard, just tell us when you will know for, and when the people | :45:00. | :45:06. | |
involved will know? Sometime early next year. One of the biggest blocks | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
at the moment is funding, it is important to say that we are not | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
intending in anyway to impact on NHS resource, which likely follows on, | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
which is why we have eight charity, Womb Transplants Uk, which is paying | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
the entirety of the cost of the first ten cases. You're probably | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
talking 2020 by the time that series is finished, hopefully many of those | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
women will have had babies. Beyond that, funding is much harder to | :45:39. | :45:42. | |
ascertain. I have a dream that the charity may end up raising enough | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
money to pay for many, many more, but we do not know. We will be | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
following everything you do, thank you all very much for coming in. | :45:53. | :45:54. | |
Good luck with everything. Some breaking news. Rescue flights | :45:55. | :46:11. | |
for we had heard from one passenger who was due to fly out on the first | :46:12. | :46:17. | |
easyJet flight which was going to leave an hour ago, it was not | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
happening, and now we are hearing flights have been suspended. Stay | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
with us for the very latest updates. We will have the latest from Sharm | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
el-Sheikh with thousands of British tourists still waiting to fly home. | :46:31. | :46:36. | |
Now let us get the very latest weather. Some incredible pictures. | :46:37. | :46:44. | |
Some spectacular clouds spotted over the past 24 hours. In Sydney, we | :46:45. | :46:51. | |
have had huge clouds over the past 24 hours, shelf clouds, produced | :46:52. | :47:00. | |
under powerful storms. The outflow kicks out huge clouds. Spectacular | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
sight. The cloud rolling in. This is as it is? It is speeded up. | :47:05. | :47:15. | |
Making it more dramatic. Some people have described it as a cloud | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
tsunami. Rolling out underneath the huge storm. Very spectacular. How | :47:23. | :47:29. | |
unusual is it? Fairly unusual to see such a spectacular shelf cloud. What | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
is not unusual is very powerful store is in Sydney, late spring, | :47:34. | :47:40. | |
early summer. They are formed by updraughts and downdraughts within | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
the cumulative this clouds and we get big drafts of air coming | :47:45. | :47:48. | |
underneath spilling out and hitting the ground and it scoops up the warm | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
up air and that rises up above the cooler air and condenses quickly. We | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
get the spectacular shelf cloud forming. They can be indicative of | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
powerful winds. Very dangerous as well as spectacular to watch. What | :48:05. | :48:10. | |
is the weather in store for us? Much quieter. A lot of rain on the cards. | :48:11. | :48:17. | |
So bored of that! There is a lot of cloud across the | :48:18. | :48:22. | |
country. Outbreaks of patchy rain working west to east today. Some | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
will be heavy across parts of the South of England and northern | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
Scotland. But some bright intervals. It will not be raining all day. By | :48:32. | :48:36. | |
3pm, we are expecting quite a lot of mist and Merc in the south-west of | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
England and Wales. It will be mild wherever you are. As we cross the | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
Irish Sea, a little bit more in the way of brightness across Northern | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
Ireland. Scotland, we will continue to see the cloud increase this | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
afternoon. Outbreaks of rain. It will be mild and breezy. Feeling | :49:00. | :49:05. | |
blustery at times. Some rain for parts of northern England. Further | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
south, cloudy, continuing with the outbreaks of rain, heavy at times, | :49:11. | :49:15. | |
gusty along the English Channel coasts. This evening, many people | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
will be heading out to firework displays. For most places, clear | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
skies with the rain clearing away. Cloud and rain lingering in southern | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
and south-eastern parts of England for a time. We will see a quieter | :49:29. | :49:35. | |
spell of weather overnight. Saturday, the next batch of rain | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
heads in from the south-west. Quite a wet day, particularly across | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
England and Wales. Blustery too. Still very mild. Light rain for | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
Northern Ireland and southern Scotland. The northern half of | :49:49. | :49:52. | |
Scotland will probably see the best of the dry unsettled weather. | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
Saturday and into Sunday, Remembrance Sunday, the next area of | :49:57. | :50:03. | |
low pressure. -- dry and settled weather. The West bearing the brunt | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
of the wet and windy weather. Still mild in the south and east. The | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
forecast for a member on Sunday, we keep the mild theme but it will be | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
feeling blustery and breezy -- Remembrance Sunday. Rain moving east | :50:22. | :50:26. | |
through the course of the day. Things remaining unsettled. Quite a | :50:27. | :50:34. | |
lot of isobars on the map. Further low pressure piling up in the | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
Atlantic heading our way. The outlook into the new working week, | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
things staying pretty autumnal and unsettled. Mild for the time of | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
year. Brighter spells and outbreaks of rain. | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
Welcome to the programme, if you've just joined us. | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
"There's chas and anger at Sharm el-Sheikh" - | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
that's what one passenger hoping to fly home today has told us. | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
All flights from the UK into Sharm el-Sheikh have been suspended by the | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
Egyptian authorities. We will get the latest on the fast moving | :51:11. | :51:11. | |
situation. We exclusively reveal why more than | :51:12. | :51:14. | |
100 British Uber drivers are looking to take legal action | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
against the high-tech taxi company. The only problem is if you are not | :51:18. | :51:27. | |
working, you are not earning and the earnings are so much lower than I | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
expected. It is really starting to bite now. We have been hearing how | :51:32. | :51:40. | |
pioneering surgery is providing hope to women who cannot have children. | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
To know there is a chance that we can better job than ourselves, it | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
mildly overrules every other option. -- that we can bear children | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
ourselves. And we speak to a gay clergyman who | :51:54. | :51:56. | |
lost a discrimination case after his new post as a hospital | :51:57. | :51:59. | |
chaplain was withdrawn when he EasyJet says the Egyptian | :52:00. | :52:22. | |
authorities have stopped UK planes flying into Sharm el-Sheikh but some | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
planes already at the resort will take off later today. It is hoped | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
thousands of tourists could be flown back to the UK later. There is | :52:32. | :52:35. | |
confusion at the airport itself about the details but more | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
information is emerging about the reasons behind the Government's | :52:40. | :52:43. | |
decision to suspend flights to Sharm el-Sheikh following the downing of a | :52:44. | :52:46. | |
Russian passenger jets. It is understood British investigators | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
believe and expose advice was put in the hole before take-off. The | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
Government says it has received new information on Wednesday based on | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
so-called chatter picked up by intelligence agencies. We were faced | :53:00. | :53:02. | |
with a situation where we had serious concerns about the incident | :53:03. | :53:09. | |
as far as the Russian plane last Saturday was concerned and we wanted | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
to put in place to get as many people back as quickly as we could | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
in light of the fact that yesterday was a big changeover day. There | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
should have been around 15 flights yesterday which were all cancelled. | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
It was a matter of, how do we do it in the safest way to reach -- | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
reassure ourselves that we put particular restrictions into | :53:33. | :53:37. | |
operation? There is real confusion at Sharm el-Sheikh about what is | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
going to be happening with the British people who were expecting to | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
fly home today. EasyJet has put back one of its flights at least which | :53:47. | :53:50. | |
was going to leave this morning. Let us speak to a man we spoke to | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
yesterday, he is at Sharm el-Sheikh today waiting to find out what is | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
happening. Tell us what is happening today? I am going through to one of | :54:01. | :54:09. | |
the planes now. We found out this morning that six of the planes that | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
were meant to come have not come from London. It is noisy because I | :54:14. | :54:19. | |
am going to my plane right now. One second. Sorry. All right. You are | :54:20. | :54:28. | |
actually getting on a plane which as far as you know is going to leave, | :54:29. | :54:33. | |
is it? At what time? It is supposed to depart now, as soon as the. There | :54:34. | :54:39. | |
were six flights that were meant to fly from London to come here but as | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
far as I could find out from officials that they told us there | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
was so much traffic here that they could not possibly accommodate the | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
ten extra flights coming, the empty flights coming from easyJet and the | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
other airlines. They had to delay them until this evening. It has | :54:59. | :55:04. | |
created quite a lot of chaos and tension, understandably. A lot of | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
shouting and anger and a lot of people have had to go back to their | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
hotels. We have had messages from easyJet informing us that it was a | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
political situation whereby they were still negotiating with the | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
Egyptian government to allow these planes to come here to pick people | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
up. We are still uncertain. I would love you to get on this. There were | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
a couple of extra seats on one of the planes departing now. These | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
planes were here before the incident happened. They are taking off today. | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
We are looking at things in the airport and it is very, very busy, | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
clearly. Talk us through how you managed to get on that flight. | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
Presumably, there are loads of people in exactly the same boat | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
trying to bag a seat. I am travelling by myself. I have no one | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
else with me. I was staying behind because I was trying to talk to | :56:05. | :56:08. | |
someone about where to stay and they said I would not be able to leave | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
Sharm el-Sheikh for a while. Luckily, I was able to talk to one | :56:13. | :56:17. | |
of the attendants at the easyJet desk at the last minute who told me | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
there were an extra couple of seats left over and they put me on one of | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
them. That is the plane I am about to go on. How do you feel about | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
getting on the flight? Nervous at all? I put my full faith in the | :56:31. | :56:37. | |
British system and how they have come here and all of the security | :56:38. | :56:46. | |
measures and you can tell there is bolstered security has been put in | :56:47. | :56:50. | |
place, there is a lot of rigorous checking going on in the airport. | :56:51. | :56:54. | |
The fact that the UK Government has allowed planes to take off today, it | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
indicates they are satisfied with the security, so I am comfortable | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
with the fact I am able to get on the plane. I can feel a little bit | :57:07. | :57:10. | |
more comfortable knowing our government has allowed us to flight | :57:11. | :57:14. | |
and they feel the security measures are adequate. Did you have luggage | :57:15. | :57:18. | |
you would have wanted to check in? What has happened with it? I had a | :57:19. | :57:22. | |
carry on suitcase which they did not allow me to carry on. I was only | :57:23. | :57:27. | |
able to take out my laptop which I have taken onto the plane with me. | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
The rest of your luggage will be transported back separately? | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
Precisely. My laptop, they had to verify it was working, I had to log | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
in with my password and check it was actually a laptop. There is quite a | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
lot of security checking. As we were coming in, every car, everything was | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
being checked by the security officials. There was quite a long | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
queue outside into the airport of vehicles. The bolstered security. | :57:58. | :58:07. | |
How long until you are going to take off? I think it is going to be | :58:08. | :58:14. | |
another half an hour. It should not be that long. We hope it all goes | :58:15. | :58:19. | |
smoothly. Thank you for talking to us again on the programme. | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
Lawyers say that more than 100 British drivers for the high-tech | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
taxi company, Uber, are looking to take legal action against it. | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
The firm, based in the US, runs a smartphone app | :58:29. | :58:31. | |
which allows users to hail a cab at the touch of the button. | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
The drivers are currently treated as self-employed, | :58:35. | :58:36. | |
but they want full worker status and the rights that go with it. | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
The personal details of more than 150,000 customers and more than | :58:42. | :58:43. | |
15,000 bank details were accessed by hackers in last month's cyber | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
Considerably fewer than originally thought. | :58:47. | :58:58. | |
Sir Cliff Richard has been interviewed for a second time | :58:59. | :59:00. | |
by police investigating alleged sexual assaults three decades ago. | :59:01. | :59:02. | |
A spokesman for the singer confirmed he has been interviewed voluntarily | :59:03. | :59:05. | |
He was not arrested or charged and he continues to describe the claims | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
Let's catch up with all the sport now and join Hugh. | :59:10. | :59:17. | |
So, what is it like playing for a football club owned | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
by five European Cup winners, especially when you're playing | :59:23. | :59:24. | |
in the Northern Premier League, six divisions below the top flight? | :59:25. | :59:27. | |
Tonight, Salford City, who are owned by the Neville brothers, Gary and | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
Phil, Nicky Butt, Paul Scholes and Ryan Giggs - all former Manchester | :59:32. | :59:33. | |
United stars - will be playing in their first ever FA cup first-round | :59:34. | :59:37. | |
tie. They've also been the subject of a BBC documentary called the | :59:38. | :59:41. | |
It's fair to say striker and model Gareth Seddon plays a leading role. | :59:42. | :59:52. | |
Welcome to non-league football. 15 players lining up for three cold | :59:53. | :59:55. | |
showers. Welcome to non-league. I came to Salford the same as | :59:56. | :00:16. | |
everyone else, I got sold the dream. You always have to practice the | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
thousand yard stare. The camera is there, you have to look 1000 yards | :00:22. | :00:30. | |
into the distance. The space is that wide. Come inside, turnout, you stay | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
wide. I am thinking, he is like a barman. President of Salford! Here | :00:37. | :00:47. | |
he is, what has it been like taking part in the documentary? Have you | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
had any feedback about the thousand yard stare? It has been amazing. It | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
has all been good, to be fair. I was worried but there have been so many | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
people coming up to me and saying, show us the thousand yard stare. It | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
is all in good fun. I really enjoyed it. | :01:08. | :01:17. | |
What about the owners of the club? Is that added pressure for you? It | :01:18. | :01:24. | |
has been amazing, having them back, but it is added treasure. We want to | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
do well against them, but every single team and player that comes to | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
face us, they have the added pressure to do well in front of them | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
as well. It makes it harder every single game for us. Device have they | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
had much advice for you? Have been brilliant, on and off the pitch. | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
Everything from diet, training and nutrition, to little things like how | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
they should prepare for games and generally looking after us. What is | :01:56. | :02:01. | |
it like, on a personal level, your relationships with them? Do they | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
come into the changing room, do they have a drink with the boys? Gary | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
came in once, I don't think he was too impressed with me! They have | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
really looked after us, they come down to training, obviously, | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
depending on how much weight they have put down over the last few | :02:19. | :02:22. | |
weeks, they will come down and tried to get rid of a few pounds. But to | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
have the likes of Paul Scholes, Gary Neville and Nicky Butt training with | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
you, it has been amazing. You have been doing well on the field, but it | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
is a really tough game against League 2 side Notts County. But you | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
have played in the football league yourself and the FA Cup before? You | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
are injured for tonight. Have you any advice for your team? I am | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
injured, I am gutted I have not played. -- cannot play. I faced | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
Notts County for Kettering once in the second round, I was lucky enough | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
to score the winning goal. People still talk to me about it and it was | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
ten years ago. I hope one of our lads to make can be a hero and in | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
ten or 20 years' time people are still talking about Salford City | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
Reds to you can see that match live on BBC Two from 7:30pm tonight, | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
except in Wales. I will be back with the latest on Sam Burgess and the | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
Roper league goals at around 10:30am. See you then. -- rugby | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
league goals. Hello, thank you | :03:30. | :03:31. | |
for joining us this morning. Welcome to the programme, | :03:32. | :03:33. | |
if you've just joined us. We're on BBC Two and the | :03:34. | :03:35. | |
BBC News Channel until 11am. Your contributions to this programme | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
and your expertise really is key. Texts will be charged | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
at the standard network rate. And of course, you can watch | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
the programme online wherever you are, via the BBC News app or | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
our website, bbc.co.uk/Victoria. And you can also subscribe to all | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
our features on the news app, by going to add topics and | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
searching "Victoria Derbyshire". There is confusion at Sharm | :03:54. | :04:01. | |
el-Sheikh about repatriations flights due to fly today. EasyJet | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
says some have been delayed after it reported earlier that they were now | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
it seems that planes already there will be allowed to take off but new | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
planes being sent to pick up Brits will not be allowed by the Egyptian | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
authorities to land. One passenger has described it as chaos. | :04:21. | :04:23. | |
Yesterday, the Prime Minister says it's more | :04:24. | :04:25. | |
likely than not that a terrorist bomb brought down a Russian airliner | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
Meanwhile, Egypt's prime minister says he is angry flights were halted | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
after security was increased at the resort's airport ten months ago | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
Chris Barrett is an aviation security expert based in Dubai, and | :04:37. | :04:51. | |
we can talk to him via Skype. What are your thoughts on what is going | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
on here? First of all, I think it is important to state that I don't know | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
what information the British Government has, rightly so. What I | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
can say to you is that the statement issued by the Prime Minister, whilst | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
he said very clearly that while this may not be a warm, to actually talk | :05:13. | :05:20. | |
about it in such words was indicating that there is very good | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
information, and the Government no choice but to ask. -- whilst this | :05:25. | :05:30. | |
may not be a bomb. The Egyptian authorities say security was | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
improved after Britain raised concerns a few months ago. How risky | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
was Sharm el-Sheikh perceived to be before all of this? I think that is | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
an unfair assessment. There is a rolling programme where airports | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
around the world are visited by various organisations and | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
governments, including the International Civil Aviation | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
Authority. Recommendations are made. That is not to say that they are | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
particularly whisky, what it does say is there are risks in the system | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
that the Government would have preferred to have seemed closed | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
off. It is not quite as clear-cut it first seems. They have stopped | :06:13. | :06:18. | |
passengers being able to travel with hold luggage, just whatever they can | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
carry is all they are allowed to take. Does that sound sensible to | :06:24. | :06:29. | |
you? In view of the information we have, and I can only go in view of | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
what has been said, it would seem that is sensible at this time. The | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
importance is the safety of the passengers travelling. The | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
Government has sufficient concerns. It is not in Government interest to | :06:43. | :06:48. | |
take these measures, you have seen the anger it causes with the | :06:49. | :06:52. | |
Egyptian Government and the damage caused to the airlines and the tour | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
operators. They obviously have what they believe to be strong | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
information and, therefore, yes, it is a sensible move. Thank you very | :07:02. | :07:06. | |
much indeed for giving us your perspective. Let's talk to Jonathan | :07:07. | :07:18. | |
Marcus, our world affairs reporter. What is the latest? A fair amount of | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
confusion, we expected 29 flights to the UK today, taking those whose | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
holidays had ended and were already booked on cancelled flights and | :07:29. | :07:31. | |
others who might want to return home anyway. In the last few minutes | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
easyJet, one of the operators, has said their flights will not be | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
flying back today. They are urging their customers to return to their | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
hotels. It is not clear yet whether this is just easyJet or whether | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
there are other companies' flights involved. They seem to suggest it is | :07:49. | :07:55. | |
a scheduling problem with the Egyptian aviation authorities. Lots | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
of the additional flights are due to leave today. Certainly not the | :08:00. | :08:05. | |
smooth, well machine that people were hoping for after all the | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
frustrations of the problems associated with the holidays. It has | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
been described as chaos by one passenger. We are getting a bit more | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
clarity with what is going on with easyJet, it seems that the issue is | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
that planes are not being allowed to fly into Sharm el-Sheikh to make up | :08:24. | :08:25. | |
the roster of flight they were hoping. So two out of ten easyJet | :08:26. | :08:31. | |
flight will be able to light -- leave today, carrying British | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
passengers. How long can this go on for? It could clearly taken about | :08:36. | :08:41. | |
days to get over the backlog, and there is no question of new flights | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
going as carrying holiday-makers, if people still want to trouble. There | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
are also the restrictions about hold baggage, people only being allowed | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
to travel with hand baggage, the hold baggage will be going | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
separately. That is another area of complexity. The flights to carry | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
that baggage, it needs to be reconciled with the passengers when | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
they arrive home. It is complex, but one imagines if there are not | :09:11. | :09:13. | |
particular problems to do with the capacity and so on, it is a busy | :09:14. | :09:18. | |
airport but not by any means amongst the world's most busy, we would | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
imagine it would be carried out within a number of days, that | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
depends as much of the Egyptian authorities as anybody else. Thank | :09:27. | :09:34. | |
you very much. We are getting further clarification, as I was just | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
mentioning it is that easyJet have been told that aid flights they were | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
planning to fly from the UK to Sharm el-Sheikh will not be allowed to | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
land, and seven of those were due to return to the UK, one was due to fly | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
to Italy. -- to the UK from Sharm el-Sheikh. Those flights will not be | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
happening, we are hearing that at Sharm el-Sheikh the authorities are | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
saying they simply cannot accommodate all the extra aeroplanes | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
at the airport. Two easyJet flight will go ahead. The first Brits will | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
still be flying back to the UK today, we will keep you updated on | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
what is going on. Earlier this morning, we brought you | :10:15. | :10:17. | |
our exclusive investigation The taxi company is now worth | :10:18. | :10:19. | |
?30billion and operates in ten cities | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
across the UK with more to come. Well, we've been told more than 100 | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
are now looking to take legal action against the firm over pay | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
and conditions. In a moment we will hear from Uber | :10:30. | :10:31. | |
users and what black cab drivers But first here's Jim Reed | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
with this exclusive report. It's happening on the ground | :10:35. | :10:39. | |
and around the world every day. Whatever you think of Uber, | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
you can't say it's short of The tech company was founded just | :10:46. | :10:48. | |
six years ago in San Francisco. It's now worth ?30 billion | :10:49. | :10:56. | |
and growing fast. If you haven't used it before, | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
this is how it works. So you turn your smartphone on, | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
and you select where you want to be picked up from, | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
and then it sends it all out to all One of them can accept that | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
and brings up a photo of Like I say, in this case, four | :11:10. | :11:17. | |
minutes, and you just go down to the But in this brave new world, | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
not everyone is happy. James Farrar has been | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
an Uber driver for almost a year. Like all the others, | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
he is self-employed. Now he's part of the group taking | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
legal action against the company The flexibility is great. The | :11:34. | :11:54. | |
incomers too lo, you are at a lot of financial risk. You carry all the | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
business risk, they will take 20%. James and the other drivers involved | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
in the legal action say the way Uber operates needs they are not really | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
self-employed entrepreneurs at all, but working for the company, and so | :12:08. | :12:10. | |
should get the rights that go with it. Lawyers say more than 100 Uber | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
drivers are looking to take some action. | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
What we want to do is make sure that these drivers get workers rights, | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
so it's the rights that anybody who works is entitled to. | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
And we're talking about things like minimum wage, the right to | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
It's great that these new technology companies exist, but all we're | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
asking is that they treat people who work for them in the same way that | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
Adu the's new headquarters, it says it is all about choice. -- at | :12:39. | :12:54. | |
Uber's new headquarters. Many of them had to work prescribed hours. | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
They have chosen to work with us because of the flexibility. It is | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
likely an employment tribunal will hear both sides over the coming | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
months. If Uber losers, it may have to pay compensation and change the | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
way it does business in the future. And to watch | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
and share the full film head to our Let's talk now to Steve Grainger, | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
who's been driving a black cab for over 20 years and Imogen Reid, | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
who uses Uber. Thank you both for coming in. Steve, | :13:20. | :13:29. | |
you have seen Jim's report, do you have sympathy for Uber drivers? It | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
is difficult for me to have sympathy for the opposition. We like to have | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
a friendly, competitive attitude to one another. Essentially, you are a | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
self-employed driver if you are a licensed private hire or black taxi. | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
You are self-employed. You know, I work for a radio circuit and I pay | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
for the privilege of getting jobs from them. We are service partners. | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
I think that if I was to try and get employment status from that | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
company, they would probably throw it out. There is no way I could | :14:09. | :14:10. | |
become employed by that radio service provider, because I am Steve | :14:11. | :14:19. | |
Grainger, taxi driver, not Steve Grainger, driving exclusively for | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
them. Where I would sympathise with Uber drivers as they can only work | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
through Uber, using the app. Perhaps they have an argument to say that we | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
only get our work from you, perhaps how Addison Lee would only work with | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
their liveried vehicles. It is a complex picture, the issue of the | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
implement right is. -- employment rights. In a broader sense, Uber has | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
come about and shaken up the market, has it impacted on you? It has | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
encouraged other apps to up their game. In the same model but Uber | :15:00. | :15:09. | |
work, there are licensed taxi at. But all of these crowding in on the | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
black taxis, lack taxi drivers have been out protesting. Does it have an | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
impact on your pocket? I think so. There is a massive increase in the | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
number of minicabs, licensed private hire, and I think probably because | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
by using the Uber app, it against... It circumvents the rules, | :15:32. | :15:37. | |
if you like, whereby they are effectively applying for hire on an | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
apple. But punter friendly, people know what they are getting, Imogen, | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
why do you use them? It is easy and most of the journey | :15:45. | :15:56. | |
is are cheaper than black cabs. I have sympathy and they are | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
wonderful, black cabs. No one wants them to decline. But as a student, | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
price is a priority. It is easy, I can track it, I can leave a review, | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
it is very consumer friendly. Is that the reason you do not use black | :16:14. | :16:22. | |
cabs, too expensive? Basically, yes. I was talking earlier with imaging, | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
very nice chap, and I was trying to explain there are apps pretty much | :16:26. | :16:35. | |
identical to Uber's. They offer discounts and fixed prices and you | :16:36. | :16:40. | |
do not have to pay anything... You are saying black taxis are not more | :16:41. | :16:46. | |
expensive than Uber? I cannot say for sure but they are categorically | :16:47. | :16:51. | |
the same, our fares. From what I am aware of, Uber have a sliding pay | :16:52. | :16:59. | |
scale. If things get a little bit busier, they are effectively running | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
a metered fare that increases or decreases. That is something that | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
intervene is the regs. You said something earlier about how the apps | :17:09. | :17:15. | |
take a certain percentage of your wage and you take the rest so the | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
firm must be higher than Uber. No, we charge our fair at the same as if | :17:22. | :17:25. | |
you got in on the street, you could stick out your hand, come to the | :17:26. | :17:30. | |
taxi rank, get into my lovely clean taxi with my knowledgeable driving | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
skills and I can take you where you want to go. Anyone can do that with | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
sat nav. Categorically not. I would challenge anybody to get the sat | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
nav... You name two places and I will be there by the time you have | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
figured out which way to hold the sat nav. Anyone stuck under a bridge | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
or stuck next to a tall building and they have seen the sat nav going, | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
hang on, it does not note where you are going. It tells you... I have | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
one and it tells me I can turn right from Hogan viaduct and to Farringdon | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
Road. We have heard lots of stories about people getting in trouble with | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
sat navs! I rest my case. Are you worried the black cab might be a | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
dying breed? Partly, yes, but I think we are moving with the times. | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
I do not want to plug different apps for taxis, but we offer that | :18:33. | :18:42. | |
service and we offer fixed prices and special deals. You can track | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
your taxi, you know when it is arriving. It does not cost you | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
anything other than the metered fare. If I was to say, I will be | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
your service Partner, I will turn up at your house, as I have said, in my | :18:56. | :19:02. | |
knowledgeable clean taxi, the meter will start when you get in. When you | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
get out, that is how much the fair is. The app deducts 10%. I am losing | :19:08. | :19:14. | |
money, you are not, but you are getting a superior service. Thank | :19:15. | :19:20. | |
you very much. Let us know what you think about that as well. | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
We speak to a gay clergyman who lost a discrimination case | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
after his new post as a hospital chaplain was withdrawn when he | :19:29. | :19:31. | |
And we'll bring you the story of the London baby girl who's become the | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
first person in the world to receive a revolutionary genetic treatment. | :19:36. | :19:44. | |
Reports of confusing scenes at Sharm el-Sheikh Airport, | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
as thousands of stranded British tourists wait to fly home. | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
EasyJet say Egyptian authorities have stopped them from flying | :19:54. | :19:57. | |
into the airport, putting some of their rescue flights at risk. | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
It had been hoped that all UK holidaymakers | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
at the Red Sea resort would be repatriated by the end of today. | :20:04. | :20:14. | |
Two flights are believed to have taken off. More information is | :20:15. | :20:29. | |
emerging about the reasons behind the Government's decision to suspend | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
flights. It's understood British | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
investigators believe an explosive device was put in the plane's hold | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
some time before take-off. The Government is said to have | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
received new information on Wednesday based on so-called chatter | :20:41. | :20:42. | |
picked up by intelligence agencies. Lawyers say that more than 100 | :20:43. | :20:45. | |
British drivers for the high-tech taxi company, Uber, are looking | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
to take legal action against it. The firm, based in the US, | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
runs a smartphone app which allows users to hail a cab | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
at the touch of the button. The drivers are currently treated | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
as self-employed, but they want full worker status | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
and the rights that go with it. TalkTalk says the bank accounts | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
and sort codes of more than 15,000 people were accessed during last | :21:01. | :21:03. | |
month's cyber attack, considerably The telecoms company believes | :21:04. | :21:05. | |
the personal data of 4% Sir Cliff Richard has been | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
interviewed for a second time by police investigating alleged | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
sexual assaults three decades ago. A spokesman for the singer confirmed | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
he has been interviewed voluntarily He was not arrested or charged and | :21:19. | :21:21. | |
he continues to describe the claims Let's catch up with all | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
the sport now and join Hugh. The road to FA Cup | :21:28. | :21:35. | |
glory starts tonight. Yes, it does. You can watch Salford | :21:36. | :21:50. | |
city against Notts County tonight on BBC Two. | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
Here are the day's main sporting headlines. | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
There were wins for Liverpool and Spurs | :21:56. | :21:57. | |
Liverpool beat Rubin Kazan, while a late screamer from | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
Moussa Dembele gave Tottenham victory over Anderlecht at White | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
They were beaten 2-1 at home by Norwegian side Molde | :22:05. | :22:09. | |
and they are bottom of their group and need to win their remaining two | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
And Bath head coach Mike Ford says he still feels Sam Burgess could | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
have been a great Rugby Union player. | :22:18. | :22:18. | |
The club say they were committed to his development | :22:19. | :22:20. | |
but understand his return to Australia for personal reasons. | :22:21. | :22:26. | |
That is all the sport for this morning. More on BBC News throughout | :22:27. | :22:33. | |
the day. Thank you very much. Let us bring | :22:34. | :22:38. | |
you up to date with what is going on in Sharm el-Sheikh airport. A BA | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
flight leaving Gatwick right now is about to get airborne and they are | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
expecting it to land without problems at Sharm el-Sheikh. They | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
will be picking up the UK passengers and returning as planned tonight. | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
Different from easyJet which says it is not being allowed to take off | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
from the UK to fly to Sharm el-Sheikh. We will continue to keep | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
you updated. The first easyJet flight leaving Sharm el-Sheikh to | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
return to the UK, as far as we know, has taken off. | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
A gay clergyman who was prevented from taking up a post as a hospital | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
chaplain has said he feels sick after an employment tribunal ruled | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
Canon Jeremy Pemberton made history when he became the first British | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
clergyman to marry his same-sex partner. | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
But shortly after, he was told the bishop was withdrawing | :23:27. | :23:32. | |
his licence and a job offer he had received was withdrawn. | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
Despite this, he is still working as a hospital chaplain | :23:38. | :23:40. | |
Now he says he's going to appeal the ruling. | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
We are joined also by Reverend Ian Paul. He works in the same dioceses | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
as Jeremy. Thank you for coming in. I said you felt sick when you heard | :23:54. | :24:00. | |
the ruling, Jeremy. Yes, I was not surprised, to be honest. I was | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
expecting to hear the result we got, but I was very disappointed. | :24:05. | :24:11. | |
Why were you so disappointed? Marriage is a human rights, people | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
have the right to marry or not to marry. In the Church of England, we | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
have an article that says in the rules, priests can marry who they | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
want to marry. You cannot marry people if it is not legal, but it | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
was legal for me to marry. Article 32 says it is up to me who I choose | :24:30. | :24:35. | |
to marry. I think the bishops were wrong to put out guidance saying, | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
you cannot marry people, that is against our rules. I do not think | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
they should have said that. What is your perspective? I think it is | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
worth reflecting carefully on what the tribunal said. I was slightly | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
surprised. Unexpected. Peter Tatchell has claimed the ruling set | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
a precedent, it does not, it has simply clarified the law and the way | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
it applied. The other thing the tribunal did not do is it did not | :25:05. | :25:09. | |
evaluate the church's doctrine. It said, has the church got a clear | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
doctrine? Yes. Has it been communicated? Yes. Have the bishops | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
acted in line with the doctrine as expressed by the Church of end? Yes. | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
Was Jeremy aware of that and the consequences? The communication | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
shows that is the case. The question of what marriage is brings us back | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
to the question of law in the UK. I disagree with all of those yes is, | :25:33. | :25:40. | |
they are no for me. I am saying this is what the tribunal judgment said. | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
That is why you were not surprise. It said I was discredited against | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
also, but it said the Church of England have the right to do so. | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
That is important to recognise that discrimination took place. I think | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
people in this country are sickened by discrimination. They do not | :25:59. | :26:01. | |
understand why getting married is something that should be punished. | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
They think it is just disgusting, really. That is what they tell me. | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
Someone like Jeremy is doing the right thing by committing to | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
somebody else in love, why should the church disagree with that? In | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
law, there are two kinds of discrimination, illegitimate, the | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
kind that people are sickened by, as Jeremy mentioned, and there is | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
legitimate discrimination. It is not legitimate if I am appointing | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
someone to a job if they are Muslim. If someone is a candidate for | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
Christian ministry, I am allowed to discriminate and the tribunal said | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
two important things. They said it was very clear that Jeremy had not | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
been discriminated against simply because he was gay and they used | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
quite a lot of evidence about that. The second thing was the church has | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
in law been granted permission for legitimate discrimination and that | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
is to do with whether or not clergy are actually in line with the | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
teaching of the church and if the... I was worried that if the | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
tribunal had ruled in a different way, I think this is what Jeremy was | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
asking, asking clergy to disregard the teaching of the church, and the | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
tribunal said, they cannot. No, I was doing what I thought the | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
teaching of the church allowed me to do, which in article 32 says, I can | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
marry who I choose. That article was formed before anyone thought of | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
same-sex marriage but the intention was to preserve my right to marry | :27:32. | :27:37. | |
legally who I chose, not the right of bishops to tell me I should not. | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
Now the Church of England says its position is clear. I do not think | :27:42. | :27:46. | |
its position... It says it supports vicars in same-sex partnerships but | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
marriage is between a man and a woman. It has had an amazing change | :27:52. | :27:58. | |
of heart over civil partnerships because it was hotly opposed by | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
bishops in most of its passage through the House of Lords and they | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
have suddenly discovered civil partnerships and they think they are | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
a lovely thing. But the doctrine of the Church of England says this, | :28:13. | :28:16. | |
that marriage is between a man and a woman for life. Interestingly, the | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
Church of England has a number now of divorced and remarried bishops, | :28:22. | :28:24. | |
they have gone against the doctrine of the Church of England and nobody | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
has punished them. Is it hypocritical? Yes, it is. Jeremy and | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
I clearly... There is nothing... Agreement is breaking out. I agree | :28:37. | :28:41. | |
that the way the church has handled civil partnerships has been | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
unhelpful and confusing and I thought what happened was mistaken | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
in the past. Why should it allow one thing, what Jeremy is saying about | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
divorce and remarry in being fine... The church does not say it | :28:52. | :29:00. | |
is fine. If anyone has been involved in divorce and has remarried, they | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
have to go through a pass truly challenging process before they can | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
be admitted to ministry. The church has not changed its teaching. Yes, | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
it has. It has added a clause saying, when it goes wrong, here is | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
a remedy to restore it. Going back to their articles, the doctrine is | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
clear and it is disingenuous of Jeremy to claim that the 39 articles | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
legitimises his approach. The judge in the tribunal was clear in saying | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
that the Church of England has consistently for a long time very | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
articulately and as recently as 2014 in the bishop was no statement said | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
very clearly what the church's teaching on marriage is. In Britain | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
today, we have two laws about marriage, we have the law which is | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
shaped by the 2013 act and we have ecclesiastical law which includes | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
canon law which says clearly that marriage is between one man and one | :30:00. | :30:07. | |
man -- one woman. Bishop said clearly it was the case. At the | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
moment the Church of England has had no discussion about in the | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
appropriate form to decide whether it has a doctrine about same-sex | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
marriage or not. All we have had is pastoral guidance from the bishops. | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
The clue is in the title. It is not doctrine. The Church of England... | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
You are still wearing the dog collar. The church has decided | :30:30. | :30:36. | |
really clearly. We have never discussed it. The all of the | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
documentation is listed in the tribunal ruling. All of the examples | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
in canon law, in the general communication from bishops, in | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
specific indication from the assistant bishop in the dioceses, | :30:51. | :30:57. | |
the acting Bishop, all consistent. It depends... Can I read to you what | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
the bishop broke? He said, you have acted in a way which is inconsistent | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
with your ordination vows and your duty to live in accordance with the | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
teachings of the Church of England. It is unambiguous to me and the | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
judge thought so too. The Bishop gave me a rebuke and I have been | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
treated very differently in two dioceses. I have a dog collar | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
because I am a priest in the good standing of Lincoln. I wake up in | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
Nottinghamshire not a priest because the dioceses has removed all of my | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
capacity to act as a priest. I get in my car and I drive 12 miles up | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
the road to another village and I cross the county boundary and I am a | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
priest. I think that is completely crackers. Most people think so. How | :31:42. | :31:44. | |
do you explain that? In order to function as a priest in | :31:45. | :31:55. | |
the Church of England, you need a licence. I have one. It is the legal | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
way that a bishop allows a priest to operate with licensors and | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
privileges. The base that there is no clarity when he can operate in | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
one place but not another. The reason why Jeremy has a licence in | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
one place and not in the other, is that clergy have such good | :32:14. | :32:16. | |
protection under law about the licence that if there is clear | :32:17. | :32:20. | |
evidence, which there was in this case, not to grant a licence, then | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
the bishop can do so, but if he already has a licence, to remove | :32:26. | :32:28. | |
that the Bishop leads to go through a complex and expensive legal | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
procedure. This is nonsense, and you know it. The clergy discipline | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
measure was meant to be a simple and direct way of dealing with clergy | :32:38. | :32:45. | |
discipline. It has been used in number of times perfectly | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
effectively, as you know. If the Bishop really thought I had done | :32:49. | :32:54. | |
something bad he could have asked as Archdeacon -- his Archdeacon to | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
start action against me they never have. Neither Bishop had any | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
complaints made to them about my marrying, either informal or formal. | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
Nobody complained. It is not a problem. I think to get over it. As | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
things stand, you could carry on in your same position for other, but | :33:17. | :33:25. | |
you can't move elsewhere? If I move, there is a risk. How does this make | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
you feel? Has it made you question staying within the church? Not at | :33:31. | :33:36. | |
all. I have been a member of the Church of England since I was | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
baptised at four month old in King's College Chapel, Cambridge, and I | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
will stay, I will stay forever. This is my church, I belong there. I have | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
given 34 years of ministry, and nobody has ever complained about the | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
ministry I have offered. I am the canon of two cathedrals, but tells | :33:55. | :33:59. | |
you that people think I do good ministry. I was complimented on the | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
House of Commons yesterday on my ministry. I am disgusted, really, by | :34:04. | :34:10. | |
the Church's attitude and behaviour. I am fairly confident and reasonably | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
articulate, but there are a lot of gay and lesbian people out there who | :34:16. | :34:18. | |
feel that the church runs roughshod over them. Ian, does that make you | :34:19. | :34:25. | |
feel sad, he is describing being a second-class citizen? It makes me | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
feel very sad. What he said is not true, it is a complex legal process. | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
The judge interpreted, the church not deploying bat is an act of | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
compassion. I feel much more sympathy for gay clergy that I know | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
who have said they accept the teaching the church, they will not | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
ride roughshod over their vows of canonical obedience, therefore they | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
have remained celibate, or I have about gay clergy friends who have | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
fallen in love and married a woman, I have others who disagree with the | :34:58. | :35:01. | |
teaching of the church, as Jeremy does, but out of respect for the | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
church and for themselves, they say they will not enter same-sex | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
marriage because they know it is against teaching of the church. So | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
they stay as they are, even though they don't like it. I disagree with | :35:15. | :35:23. | |
the notion that I do not respect the teachings of the Church or live | :35:24. | :35:25. | |
within them, I think that is outrageous. We must leave it there. | :35:26. | :35:31. | |
Reverend Paul on Twitter says no religion should have the right to | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
discriminate on any grounds. They should not be a love -- above the | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
law. Jemima says it is dreadful and archaic that the Church can legally | :35:39. | :35:45. | |
discriminate against a gay man for getting married, and rages. -- | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
outrageous. A spokesperson for the Diocese | :35:49. | :35:49. | |
of Southwell and Nottingham said they recognise that it has been | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
a long and difficult process "Churches across the diocese | :35:52. | :35:54. | |
continue to offer a generous welcome We remain engaged | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
in the on-going shared conversations across the wider Church of England | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
that are exploring questions The first person in the world to | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
receive a pioneering genetic therapy has had her cancer reversed, | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
say Great Ormond Street doctors. One-year-old Layla Richards had | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
incurable aggressive leukaemia Doctors say it's too soon to know | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
if she has been cured, but her progress already marks | :36:16. | :36:21. | |
a huge moment for the field. When she was three months old, we | :36:22. | :36:34. | |
took her to the doctor 's and told him she just wasn't herself. Her | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
heartbeat was a bit fast, she had a high-pitched cry. She had gone off | :36:40. | :36:46. | |
her milk completely. We took her back to a local hospital and within | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
half an hour we were told she had leukaemia and an ambulance was | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
coming to take is to Great Ormond Street Hospital to start treatment | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
immediately. They said it was very aggressive leukaemia, we are going | :36:58. | :37:04. | |
to tell you information, bit I did. It changed our life dramatically. | :37:05. | :37:09. | |
She had a bone marrow transplant this year. The day we left the | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
transplant unit, seven weeks later we were told she had relapsed and | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
things were not looking good. Everyone was upset. The transplant | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
was not successful. Let me have a little feel of her tummy. Her | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
prognosis was absolutely dismal, having relapsed so early after the | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
transplant, almost always in previous similar circumstances we | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
have said, there is nothing more we can do. They said, go home and make | :37:38. | :37:44. | |
memories. Make memories, palliative care. I don't believe that outlook. | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
I have never been through it before, but I don't believe giving up. We | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
just pushed on and pushed on, we got the go-ahead for this treatment. We | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
have collected white blood cells from a healthy donor, we have | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
modified them in several days. Firstly we have armed themselves a | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
can recognise and kill leukaemia cells when they are back in the | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
body, secondly we have neutered them by taking away their own centres so | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
they can't cause harm by recognising normal tissues. Thirdly we have | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
taken away a molecule on their surface which effectively means they | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
are invisible to one of the very strong drugs were used when we treat | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
patients with leukaemia and get them ready for treatments like | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
transplantation. She was so weak before this treatment. It was just | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
horrible. It is a miracle. This was a huge experiment. We were not | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
expecting the good result but we have seen. Layla is very tough, she | :38:44. | :38:49. | |
has coped with this treatment, other children may not be able to do it in | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
the same way. We are delighted and amaze. There always has to be a | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
first, we beg them to try. How do you know if you never try? Here is | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
the first. We can speak to Dr George Vassiliou, | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
from the Thanks for joining us. What are your | :39:04. | :39:14. | |
thoughts? How much of a breakthrough is this, potentially? It is a | :39:15. | :39:19. | |
landmark, it has the ten sure to change treatment for many patients | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
with leukaemia, turning curable diseases into curable. It has been | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
done in this little girl. It is the first time it has happened. What is | :39:30. | :39:36. | |
the difference between something being done in this way and it | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
rolling out to something that could offer hope to so many? To help your | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
viewers understand what was Julie Dunn, I will start by saying that | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
this treatment is not dissimilar to bone marrow transplantation -- | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
understand what was actually done. In a bone marrow transplant you get | :39:57. | :39:59. | |
cells from a donor and give them to a patient, they include T cells. | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
Those cells have the ability to identify leukaemia cells and kill | :40:06. | :40:08. | |
them, and they do in many patients but, in fortunately, not in every | :40:09. | :40:17. | |
patient. Some cancers and particular are resistant. But these cells have | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
first been modified to point them to the leukaemia cells and in order to | :40:24. | :40:30. | |
make them safe for the individual. This type of treatment has been | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
started in the last two years, but up until now the cells had to be | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
taken out of the patient themselves. Modified et cetera, then put back | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
into the patient. That cannot be done for some patients because they | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
do not have enough cells, in their ill state, for them to be | :40:49. | :40:51. | |
manipulated. And it takes a very long time to take cells out, modify | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
them and put them back. The doctors and scientists at Great Ormond | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
Street Hospital in cells from a donor that can be ready to be | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
given, potentially, to a number of people, not all people, but many | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
people, so it can turn something laboratories, difficult and only | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
applicable in some cases into something more broadly applicable, | :41:17. | :41:19. | |
and I can see that extending to other patients with ease in | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
diseases. What sort of timescale are you thinking? The doctor that great | :41:26. | :41:31. | |
all were planning phase one study, these things all had to be done | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
safely. In their agenda is a study of ten to 15 patients next year. If | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
I compare these to the beginnings of bone marrow transplantation, the | :41:43. | :41:46. | |
progress can be quite rapid and it would be looking at treating | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
patients in the context of carefully controlled trials in the UK within | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
next two to three years. It is a much faster progress than that we | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
have seen with medicinal compounds, partly because it is similar to | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
establish techniques like bone marrow transplantation. We know a | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
lot about it and we can introduce safety and checks to make sure it is | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
given safely to patients. Thank you very much for joining us. | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
A conversation between Mullaly use of sire and the actress Emma Watson | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
is being widely shared on social media today. It was filmed at the | :42:29. | :42:33. | |
premiere of a film which has been made about Malala. Feminism is a | :42:34. | :42:42. | |
very tricky word. The first time I heard it, I had negative responses | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
and some positive ones. I hesitated in saying and I are feminist or not? | :42:48. | :42:51. | |
And then after hearing your speech when you said if not now, when? If | :42:52. | :42:57. | |
not me, who? I decided there is no way and there is nothing wrong by | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
calling yourself a feminist, so I am a feminist and you all should be | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
feminist, because feminism is another word for quality. I am so | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
moved to hear that. That is absolutely amazing. I agree with | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
you. It has become this really difficult word, but it is wonderful | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
when people embrace it, because it should be synonymous with equality. | :43:19. | :43:24. | |
Let's bring you a bit more on the situation with Sharm el-Sheikh our | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
port. It is a confusing picture this morning. We have some copy that | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
deems to be definitive, telling us the situation regarding flights | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
getting out to Sharm el-Sheikh to bring back at unjust. Egyptian | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
authorities have granted all UK airlines permission to have eight | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
departures today, eight in total. Eight flights will go from here to | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
Sharm el-Sheikh to bring Brits back, hopefully. I will be back on Monday. | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
Have a lovely weekend. Goodbye. | :43:55. | :43:57. |