17/11/2015 Victoria Derbyshire

Hello it's Tuesday, it's 9.15, I'm Victoria Derbyshire,

This morning - after the terror in Paris on Friday

night - stories of bravery, and acts of heroism continue to emerge.

We now know this pregnant woman survived after hanging on a ledge

outside the Bataclan theatre - the man who rescued her says he got

In the next few minutes we'll bring you more exceptional stories

D a safe house that they believe has been used. In the last couple of

minutes, Russia confirms that a bomb caused the Egypt plane crash that

killed 224 people last month after traces of explosives are found on

the debris. President Putin has promised to find the perpetrators in

every corner of the planet, he says, and punish them. We'll have all the

details. Also on the programme -

news of the world's most extensive This injured fire-fighter was given

this man's scalp, ears And - The actor Charlie Sheen - who

claims to have slept with thousands of women - is expected to announce

he is HIV positive on US television. Hello, welcome to the programme,

we're on BBC 2 and the BBC News Throughout the morning we'll keep

you up to date with events in Paris and Brussels; here, we're also

expecting the chancellor George Osborne to warn in a speech around

1030 that Islamist extremists could launch cyber attacks on British

banks to air traffic control. He'll talk about cyber attacks on

possibly air traffic control and banks.

Throughout the programme let us know what you

think about the way Britain, France, Russia are dealing with the group

You can watch the programme online wherever you

are via the bbc news app or our website bbc.co.uk/Victoria.

You can also subscribe to all our features on the news app,

by going to add topics and searching Victoria Derbyshire.

"I desperately want people to remain positive and not turn to hate.

I don't want revenge, no-one should want more revenge".

The words of one of the survivors of France's deadly terror attack

Thomas Tran Dinh was at the Bataclan venue watching

his favourite heavy metal group when the gunmen opened fire.

He had to run over dead bodies to escape.

Thomas, thank you very much for talking to us this morning, we do

appreciate your time. I know you have a really positive message you

want to give to the British audience here which we absolutely want to

hear, but I wonder if first of all I could ask you about where you were

in the venue when you heard the shots being fired? Yes, hello. First

of all, it's not a heavy metal band, it's just a rock band that is - you

should check out why they are called their names, because it would be

like basically the beatings of hip-hop or the Rolling Stones of pop

music. But anyway, it's important because it's a really funny band and

a really good mood is laughing and actually, I saw them in April and I

was really excited because I convinced a lot of friends to go

with me. They are all alive so I don't have to live with any guilty

if something happened. -- any guilt. I was actually at the front row of

the venue because I heard my favourite song at some point and I

wanted to be at the front row. My friend was there so I was hugging

him. My band member was there too, we are in a band, it was the band's

first night out. So I was at the front row for that song which chorus

says "save me, you've got to save me", so that makes some strange

meaning right now. So I was at the front row so they started... There

was a Sound and there were some gun shots but at the time we didn't know

it was gun shots. Me and my friend just thought it was the drummer who

messed up, you know, it sounded like the drummer messed up and we looked

at the band and they looked surprised too so we knew that it

wasn't the drummer. People started to push. We lay down on the ground.

I didn't know much and, at some point, I don't know, but they put

the lights back on and we started to see people in blood and they were

still shooting. I don't know. I think it was maybe 15 minutes, maybe

less, I don't know. But they continuously shot at us so... We

were lying down there. I know the guy who was next to me,

he got shot in the leg. It was such a good mood of the concert, please

check them out because it's really funny music and that album is

engraved in our hearts now, but yes...

And he just smile at me and laughed and said "damn, I'm going to miss

this Sunday's Foo Fighters concert". Did he really? Yes, we laughed

together. He didn't say damn, he said some Frenchier words, but

anyway... LAUGHTER

And we laughed. He made it out alive, it's a small world and he's a

friend of a friend and I'm also waiting for him to get in touch and

recover. We are all so close to each other because we were so close to

death. You know, people started to... My friend was... He didn't

remember that, but we were together hugging each other before, so he was

I think nervously smiling but he told me I looked desperate so I

don't know... Because his smile gave me the courage to run away. I was

waiting for an opportunity to try to run because you don't see it now but

I'm really tall, two metres tall, so I play video games too and I know

that I can, you cannot dodge a bullet and I have a really little

chance to survive. My friend at some point, he ran away and, you know, I

thought, I need to do that too. I couldn't see anything because I was

lying on the ground and I didn't want to stick my head out because,

you know, you never know, right, if you stick your head out they might

shoot you. I just didn't know. I heard some people say, they are

going upstairs. I thought, if they are upstairs, they are going to just

shoot us from above and we are all going to die.

So that is the only moment I took my head out and there was no-one. I was

close to the stage because I was in the front row. So that song really

saved my life, you know, and the chorus is "save me", so I started to

run and maybe it took five seconds, but there was a lot of bodies

drenched in blood. So they shot the people who tried to escape. So, you

know, if I made my move earlier, I would be dead; I would. Here

speaking with you now. If it would be one minute later, I would be dead

too. There was some injured people outside too. I just ran, you know, I

just ran. That is what is important is, within I was out, my first

thought is not even I'm alive, it's just about my loved ones, you know.

Thomas, I am so grateful for your time and I'm going to ask you to

pause for just a moment and we are going to come right back to you so

that we can hear your message of positivity, but I'm told that John

Kerry is holding a press conference in Paris right now.

We can cross to him and hear what he has to say. . ... Significant steps

we believe we can take together in a number of different areas to

increase our efforts and be more effective even against Daesh. We

already are doing that. President Hollande will be visiting

Washington. The Presidents will meet, we'll have further

discussions. We are absolutely committed to increasing our efforts

in every degree possible and thoughtfully. Carefully. My sense is

that everybody understands that with Lebanon's attacks, with what's

happened in Egypt, with anchor radio, Turkey, with the attacks now

in Paris -- Ankara, we have to step up our efforts to hit them at the

core where they are planning these thing, and also obviously to do more

on borders and in terms of the movement of people.

But the level of cooperation could not be higher. We have agreed even

to exchange more information and, I'm convinced that over the course

of the next weeks, Daesh will feel even greater pressure. They are

feeling it today, they felt it yesterday, they have felt it in the

past weeks. We are taking out leaders, we have liberated

significant communities, Tikrit, included, three quarters of the

border of northern Syria is now under the control, taken away from

Daesh. We'll work with Turkey to close the last portion. So there is

a clear strategy in place and step by step I'm confident that the

momentum will pick up. So I thank you all and particularly again I'm

confident that over the next days, Paris, which knows how to rebound,

will do so, and I look forward to being back here for the Cup 21 with

President Obama and I'll stay for that longer and I think that will be

an important statement by the world that no-one will interrupt the

business of the global community. Certainly not despicable, cowardly

acts of terror. Thank you all very much.

Thank you. That's the oust Secretary of State

John Kerry speaking live in Paris. Just before we spoke publicly, he

talked to staff at the US embassy before meeting the French President,

Francois Hollande. He told his staff that Daesh, we know them as

so-called Islamic state, Daesh kill people because of who they are and

what they believe. You'll have heard him say that he believes anyway that

Daesh are feeling the pressure and that those attackers will be hunted

down. Anything else live from Paris of

course, you will hear it first on the programme. Let me bring you this

news as well being reported by Reuters. Egyptian authorities, we

are told, are holding two employees of Sharm El-Sheikh Airport suspected

of aiding those who planted the bomb on that Russian plane, so two

employees of Sharm El-Sheikh Airport are being held by the Egyptian

authorities. The pair are suspected of aiding those who planted the bomb

on the Russian plane which killed over 200 people and the authorities

in Moscow this morning also, just after 9 our time this morning,

confirming that it was a bomb that destroyed that plane. President

Putin saying that he will hunt down the attackers in every corner of the

planet and punish them. Let's continue our conversation with

Thomas who was at the Bataclan on Friday evening and who eloquently

and poignantly this morning has described the events on Friday, as

he experienced them. I wonder what you think when you

hear politicians, your own President or the US Secretary of State, John

Kerry, and President Putin in fact talking about hunting down the

perpetrators, is that the kind of language that you want to hear?

I just heard John Kerry right now, I shut myself off from the news these

last few days, I have not read anything. Why is that? I was fearing

people would seek revenge, but that is not what I need, as a survivor.

They were not even there. I can say that because I got out and it took

me three hours to know. I was thinking about my friends, I had the

chance to live abroad, I had friends everywhere. I thought, I need to

take that trip and spend three weeks. I can see on the blackboard

behind you it says smile. What does it say underneath? Smile everyday. I

broke up with my girlfriend this year, so I put that therefore a

reminder. It makes a lot of sense right now. Yes. Thank you for

talking to us. I'm going to ask you if you could stay with us. I would

like to introduce you to three other people who have survived. They would

very much like to talk to you. Can I say one more thing? Please love

people. I understand he is easy and primal but we need to be stronger

and unite. We need to unite, love each other, and I hope love will

prevail. We will speak more in a second. I have a couple of messages

for those watching you on British television. Deborah says, my heart

is breaking listening to this young man. Brenda says he tells it so

real, he is so brave and has brought me to tears. How do you get over

such a horrific experience? We will speak more to you in a moment. Thank

you for your time. Let's bring you the main news.

Russia has said a bomb caused a Russian airliner to crash

as it left Sharm El-Sheikh in Egypt, killing 224 people.

Traces of explosive have been found in the debris.

Egyptian authorities are holding two implies.

We will go back like to Paris. The very latest headlines from here,

after the attacks which killed 129 people in Paris. A manhunt is

continuing today for the key suspect in the attacks, Salah Abdeslam. He

is believed to have fled across the border from France back to his

native Belgium. French police investigating the attacks have been

carrying out more than 100 raids overnight. Meanwhile, the American

Secretary of State has been in Paris holding talks with Francois Hollande

during his visit, and showing solidarity with France. He described

Islamic State as psychopathic monsters and said America stands

shoulder to shoulder with the French people. France has been carrying out

more air strikes in Syria. Tend to place last night. Francois Hollande

has said Isis will be pursued without mercy. Let's bring you the

rest of the news. The British Government is announcing

extra funding for GCHQ. George Osborne is going to say that

everything online is a target from banking to traffic control. Official

figures, just released, show the rate of the consumer Price index

remained at -0.1% in October. Surgeons in the United States say

they have carried out the world's most extensive face transplant. The

patient was a volunteer firefighter who suffered severe burns when

trying to rescue a woman. They have changed his entire scalp, ears and

eyelids. We will bring you more on that in the programme later on. Time

for the sport. Football dominates the morning. The eyes of the world

will be on Wembley this evening as England take on France. The colours

of the Wembley arch will be lit up in the colours of the French flag

and Wayne Rooney has said the game will be an act of togetherness. Many

of the players will be familiar with the French players as they played

together at club level. Originally, this game was preparation for 2016

but it is known about the sense of the occasion. The Belgium versus

Spain game has been cancelled. The Republic of Ireland will join

England, Wales and Northern Ireland in the Euros next summer after

beating Bosnia-Herzegovina last night.

Before we brought you the headlines, we were having a

conversation with Thomas, who was at the Bataclan and told us his story

of how he escaped the venue. We can introduce three people who have

survived terrorist attacks. Jackie was on the underground when the

carriage in front of her exploded during the seven July Bombings. Will

Pike was injured during an attack on the title Mahal. And Olivia was

caught up in the Tunisian terror attacks. She locked herself in a

room for two hours whilst gunfire echoed around her. Thank you for

coming on the programme. I know that you were listening intently to what

Thomas was saying. Firstly, what do you think about his message of not

heating people? I completely agree with Thomas. It is remarkable that,

so close to the incident, he is able to articulate that. It is really

brave. It was really difficult to listen to. It is massively brave. To

be able to have such forgiveness, so soon after it happened, and to be

able to spread love, rather than hate, because it is very easy to

want to hate in this situation. What would you say to Thomas? Carry On

thinking exactly the same things he is thinking. He is obviously quite

an incredible soul. To be so fresh and be able to convey a message of

love is incredible and I think the fear that he has is knowing that his

primal reaction leads to furthering of the aggression and the violence,

that is the scary thing. Where do we go from here? Let us spread a

message of love, knowing that the actions will be generated by anger.

That is the tragedy. Can I ask all of you, what did you first think

when you heard about the news from Paris? I was at work, I am a head

chef, it was Friday night, needless to say I was running around like

mad. I heard about it from my boyfriend. He told me what was going

on. Fortunately it was quite late on in the evening. I stopped completely

in the kitchen, gave the reigns over at to another chef and took myself

out the back, and I dissolved into tears. I was a complete mess. When

the plane landed in Britain after Tunisia, I felt safe and I put my

feet down and thought I could get home now. Hearing that it is so

close, it is not in our country. I've never been so scared. What

about you? I was having some drinks with my friend and he looked down at

his phone and was just like, oh God, 120 people dead in Paris. I have

become really good at managing my emotions but it did hit me quite

hard. I did not want to talk about it, because I have had drinks and do

not want to start considering that. I went to bed and I turned on the TV

show and the first thing started using Mumbai. I ended up writing a

poem that helped convey what I was thinking. I hoped that people would

be aware of how I was thinking because people who are close to you

want to know what we have gone through and that we are a. It is

important for me to let them know that. It brought it back, it felt as

if it was happening again. Didn't really? I know it is ten years on

but for me, it feels as if it happened only three years ago. It

really brought it back. It will be the same for many other people. We

communicate with each other and we say, are you OK? Support each other.

I want to ask you all, perhaps this is more relevant, how you tried to

recover from the traumatic experience of being at the heart of

a major terrorist attack? Obviously, everybody's situation is different.

I was wrapped up with a severe physical injury, that has had

caveats, I am in massive amounts of pain, so you focus on that, that

takes eight months, there is a lot of crying, you're releasing so much

emotion wrapped up in the whole event, attached to the injury. Would

you mind explaining the nature of your injuries? I fell three stories

trying to escape the building. I cannot walk, will never walk again.

It is a classic paraplegic spinal injury. Because it is surface value,

people can see me and approach me with sensitivity. I am able to have

far more emotionally engaged conversation straightaway. People

are always well-intentioned. It means that it is kind of out in the

open whereas I just wonder whether or not I would have had that

opportunity to be quite so engaged if maybe I had not been injured.

Very interesting. What would you say because certainly there are no Overt

injuries? Mine were minor by comparison. I healed from the

physical injuries but I had post-traumatic stress disorder and

it hit me very badly. I had extensive trauma therapy which I do

consider saved my life because it's not... You can learn how to manage

it but you can't cure its. -- cure it. It may not hit everyone, it may

hit people, nobody knows whether it's going to happen to them or not

and sometimes it takes years to kick in. Can I ask when it was that you

first got back on an underground train in London after the bombings?

Two weeks. I Dumb tum I still can't believe that. I can't even... I

don't even want to look at a beach right now, I really don't. It wasn't

easy. I had no control over anything and I had to get some back. So

brave. I don't know that it was brave. Of course it was brave. Brave

or stupid. Not even necessarily stupid, but of course it was brave.

The thing is, I had to get control of my life back and a big part of

that is travelling on the underground, it's how I get to work.

I didn't want somebody who I had never met have that kind of power

over my life. Yes. So I had to take that back and I had to do it one

piece at a time and that was the first piece. A symbolic piece. It

was and I fixated on it and I had to do it alone as well. Now, I did it,

but then the more I did it, the harder it became and it became that

I couldn't then... I had to get off the train and then I had to turn

around and go back home. So the journeys became shorter and shorter

and then I realised I needed help. Will and Olivia, do you understand

that emotion of wanting to regain control, because in a way, the

terrorists, the attackers had taken something away from you, and it's

about taking it back? Completely actually. I don't know, the aspect

of control, it's a reminder, it's a cliche, we are never really in

control. But what is it to feel comfortable, safe, trustworthy in

the place you're in? I mean, you know, you got back on a train two

weeks later because had to and I've been invited back to Mumbai to take

part in a documentary. It's not that I'm prepared to face up to it, it's

just that I don't need it right now, you know, is that to do with a sense

of control or personal safety? There are lots of aspects of 7/7 that you

want to leave behind. Yes. I don't think that I'd ever go back to

Tunisia, I don't think I ever would. I still, even after all those

months, still feel so sorry for the people because it's not their fault.

You know, it's a beautiful place, it's so gorgeous. Same with India

and the nurses and the people that helped were just apologetic.

Everybody was so lovely. They felt embarrassed. I was likes, you don't

need to apologise, it's not your fault, but it's so difficult for

them now and it's such a shame. I would like to bring Thomas back in.

Thomas has been listening to all of you. Thomas, firstly I would like to

read some messages, if I may, from members of our British audience.

Lynn says on Twitter, how lovely the young survivor of the Paris

atrocities is, Thomas, you are a beautiful person. Tanya says, love

and strength to dear Thomas. David says, all the best to Thomas in his

efforts to deal with this trauma. Katarina, such wisdom in such a

young man, incredibly real, honest and moving account. Heather says,

interesting that so many of our leaders respond with actions of

revenge, but the victims mostly have love in their hearts. Ian has

e-mailed to say, I felt like I was listening to John Lennon when

listening to Thomas. What a remarkable young Mantom mass is, if

I could reach out and hug him, I would. If all those responsible for

loss of life took this approach, wouldn't it be a wonderful world,

thank you for being brave, Thomas. Sharma says, as a British Muslim,

I'm worried for my children, every day we hear of retaliation for the

terrible atrocities that took place in Paris. There have been so many

cases and each time they have been verbally or physically abused being

called terrorists. What Thomas said today is so important, we have to

love each other, revenge against innocent Muslim who is 're disgusted

by these atrocities is not the answer. And so it goes on. I want to

ask you, Thomas, when you hear Will and Jackie and Olivia, less so

Olivia because the Tunisia beach attack was so recent talking about

trying to recover from what they experienced, what are you thinking?

I haven't sought help too much right now. I'm just thinking, thank you

for the love and support, I thank you all. I don't know... ... I felt

we have been through the same things. I don't really know. I don't

know how it's going to be in the next few days and weeks. I don't

know. Thomas, where you are now... I'm home, yes. I mean, the state of

mind that you're in now... . Oh. The way some of us survivors of 7/7 are

still in touch with each other and the way that we got through these

early days was minute by minute. Hm. By not thinking about anything

beyond what you're doing right now. Just concentrate on the moment and

you will find that those moments get longer and longer and you will be

able to think, then you'll get through ten minutes, then you'll get

through an hour and then it will be a bit longer, but it does take time.

But there is a long and hard road, Thomas, I'm still on it, but there

are people who know what you're going through and have been there.

There is a way forward. Thank you. Hi, Thomas, it's Will, I

would just like to say that, everything that you've said so far

is just absolutely perfect. I mean, it's not about not having a bad bone

in your body, it's not about being, you know, an infallible human being,

but just, you know, stay true to what you believe in, because yes,

you believe in the right things, man.

I actually, you know, I did like you because I couldn't sleep that night

and at seven, a beautiful day rose up and I wrote an essay that I

wanted to send to my dear one but I just published it publicly and I

think that's why the BBC call me too. It helped me to write down. I

found a lot of strength in creativity and it's paradoxical in

that good things come from bad and we just know this from history and

regardless of whether it's a political or personal message, for

me, on my personal journey, if I can effect my friends and family around

them and let them know that oppression and hatred on my behalf

isn't what I want, but a sort of regurgitation of love and happiness

in any form and friendship. Yes. Then that really has become quite

important. I've become a bit tedious and a bit of a preacher, but, you

know, what else is there in some respects? Yes, there's nothing

there. I mean, I went to the office yesterday and it was me wanting to

see people really. It was a bit overwhelming. You know, let us be

simple and love each other. I'm not a hero, I just can't effect people

around me, I want to affect them with love and if every single people

on this planet does so, we'd be in better shape, you know. Thomas, I

want to thank you so much for your time this morning, I really, real hi

appreciate it and thank you so much for talking to Jackie, Will and

Olivia here, back in London, thank you, and we wish you lots of love

and strength, thank you. Thank you all.

Bye, Thomas. Bye. Jackie, Will and Olivia, thank you so much for coming

on the programme, we really appreciate your time. Some more

messages, from Kate, she says, listen to Thomas, love is always

stronger than hate, I'm praying for our world, this texter who doesn't

leave their name, I whole heartedly appreciate and am in awe of the

brave, brave people on your programme this morning. I have

suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder and recovery is not about

wanting revenge. Thomas and your guests are an extraordinary... Wow,

look at what he is doing. Thomas is an extraordinary man and his

strength and courage are absolutely incredible. Kim texts to say, I wish

to send my love, blessings and positive thoughts to all your guests

today who've survived the various terrorist attacks. I wish you all

the best for positive futures, I want to tell you all that you are

special, unique, inspiring and beautiful people and you must never

forget that. Thank you all so much.

Russia has said a bomb caused a Russian airliner to crash

as it left Sharm El-Sheikh in Egypt, killing 224 people.

In President Putin has pledged to find those who carried out the

attack. Our correspondent jointh joins us now. The jet, it was always

suspected that it was brought down by a bomb. We now have information

from the Russian Intelligence Services which say that traces of

explosion ivingives were found in the wreckage -- explosives. Islamic

state, or the group calling itself Islamic state, has already claimed

responsibility, so this is now known to be a terrorist attack. The

question now, of course, is how that bomb got on board the plane. What

security flaws there were at Sharm El-Sheikh airport, whether those

flaws might exist in other places. And if so what can be done about it.

It's worth remembering that air transport is fundamentally extremely

safe and there are stringent safety standards, but in this case, clearly

something went wrong and the focus of the investigation now will be to

find out what exactly went wrong. In the meantime, Vladimir Putin has

made it very clear that his campaign against militants in Syria and

particularly Islamic state, will not be relaxed at all. Russia is clearly

very angry about what's happened and intends to take the matter further.

Thank you very much. We'll bring you the latest news and sport at 10,

before that, here is the weather from Matt.

Good morning. Heavy winds and rains so far this week and there is more

to come. Nasty weather to the end of the day, England and Wales this

time, coming from the second named storm of the season. We have had

Abigail, now we have got Barney behind me. This is the second named

storm. Storms named by the strength of the winds, the strongest on the

back edge of this where the isobars are tightly packed. Way ahead of

that, we see rain spread in. There are high rivers and saturated

grounds in some parts. Rain spreads in across much of Northern Ireland,

western England and Wales. The rain across the southernmost areas will

push through quickly. An hour or two of rain, maybe a bit longer before

drier and brighter conditions develop once again. The rain more

prolonged in northern England, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Exactly the areas where we don't need it. Scotland, one of the

drivers, brightest conditions that we have got. A bit of sunshine here

and there. Temperatures six to eight degrees, but central southern

Scotland and Northern Ireland continues to see some rain to end

the afternoon, as will the far north of England. Eastern England, into

parts of East Anglia and the far south-east, outbreaks of rain and

heavy bursts. Pretty mild in the south. At the end of the day the

strongest winds push in just after the evening rush hour. The worst of

the winds in the Midlands. 70-80mph. Elsewhere, across the southern half,

50-60 gusts certainly likely. That will have a big impact later on and

into the first part of the night. Certainly if you are on the move,

there could be some trees down, power lines down and a bit of damage

as well. If you are heading out later, keep up-to-date with your

local radio station. The storm system moves out the way

tonight, dry for a time and already another one set to push into its

position but a bit further north. While much of England and Wales

eastern Scotland start dry, western parts of Scotland turns wetter, but

really just bursts of rain pushing south and east. The odd are youof

thunder and gusty showers to go with that. By the end of the afternoon,

it's Northern Ireland and western Scotland with gales maybe which will

become severe, slightly less than the winds we'll see through the rest

of the today. Thursday and Friday, Scotland sees the worst of the wet

weather on Thursday, brighter conditions further south, reverse

that around into Friday, but just notice the temperature, Edinburgh

down to six and by the end of the week we'll all feel much colder and

yes, there is the sign of snow in the forecast. Bye.

This morning one of the survivors of the Paris terror attacks -

who had to play dead in the Bataclan theatre to survive - tells

us he's detemined to stay positive in the wake of the shootings -

I would fear people will want hate and revenge, reactions that I can

understand but it is not what I need is a survivor. You can see the full

interview on our Facebook page. Stories of bravery, and acts of

heroism are continuing to emerge. We now know this pregnant woman

survived after hanging on a ledge outside the Bataclan theatre -

the man who rescued her says he got I am reporting from the heart of

Paris, where people have been coming to mourn the dead, laying flowers

and leaving messages to show their defiant and they will not leak out

by the terrorist. The message was Paris will always be Paris.

Also on the programme - news of the world's most extensive

This injured firefighter was given this man's scalp, ears

We will tell you how the medics did it.

The main news: Russia says it was a bomb that brought down an airliner

in immediate. Traces of explosive have

been found in the debris. Egyptian authorities are holding two

implies. Go back to Paris for the latest

there. In the French capital, after the attacks...

A huge manhunt is still under way for one of the key suspects.

Salah Abdeslam is believed to have fled across the border to

French police investigating the Paris attacks have carried out

The American Secretary of State, John Kerry,

is holding talks with the French president, Francois Hollande,

during a visit here to Paris, to show solidarity with France.

He's described the IS militants as "psychopathic monsters" and said

We need to step up our efforts. We need to do more on borders.

France has carried out more air strikes against so-called

Ten aircraft took part in the raids against the militants'

President Hollande has said IS would be pursued without mercy.

In the rest of the news, Islamist extremists are planning cyber

attacks. Government says anything online is a target, from banking to

traffic control. The money for cyber security is being doubled. The

latest inflation figures show that the UK is in its longest run of flat

or falling prices since records began. We have had negative

inflation again. If you look at the price of goods, something even more

interesting appears. The price of services has arisen and that has

kept it more or less even. That is because of the price of fuel, and

there has been an abundance of food. Bumper harvest has meant there is so

much wheat, the price of bread has fallen. We have had these lucky

harvests. That will not last. The fuel price cannot go down forever.

The Bank of England is betting there will be upward pressure. Is negative

inflation bad? It can be under certain circumstances. It happened

to some event in Japan in the 1990s. What is relevant about that is the

debt. What people forget about inflation is what is good about it,

the debt becomes more manageable overtime. If you don't have much

inflation then the debt hangs around for a longer. There are a few silver

linings, the price of alcohol... I am off at the moment! Between

September and October, prices dropped by 0.4%. You need to buy

fewer euros. Thank you very much. Surgeons in the United States said

they had carried out the world's most extensive scalp and face

transplant. The patient is a volunteer firefighter. His operation

lasted 26 hours and replaced his entire scalp, ears and islets. We

will talk more about that later. The Wembley arch will be lit up in the

red white and blue of the French flag. Screens inside the ground will

show the lyrics of the French national anthem, encouraging people

to sing along. The manager says they will represent their nation with

pride. It has been a difficult, stressful time but we have been

together and each of us has kept up to date with the events. We have

shared our grief. We have tried to be professional. Now the time has

come to focus on the game and approach it with the dignity and

sobriety the situation deserves. France host the European finals and

Ireland will be there after beating Presley had to Governor --

Bosnia-Herzegovina in Dublin. Brilliant touch at the back post.

That is all the sport. Thank you for joining us and welcome to the

programme. Over the next hour we will bring you the very latest

developing stories in Paris and at 10:30am we are expecting to hear

from George Osborne. He is due to announce that funding for cyber

security will double to almost ?2 billion per year by 2020. So many of

you have been getting in touch about the interview with Thomas. He was in

the Bataclan Theatre and spoke poignantly about his experience. Ray

says, it was a brave and moving account. Maggie said, what an

amazing young man Thomas is. To tell his story takes huge strength. Kate

says, please listen to Thomas. Love is always stronger than hate. This

person says, I appreciate him, I am in awe of the brave people on your

programme this morning. Mark says, Thomas and your other guests talking

about the Paris terror attacks, never give up forgiving, it is so

important. Lindsay says, people like Thomas and your other guests, it is

humbling, I am in due all. What an amazingly sensitive programme. Do

keep those coming in. You can subscribe to all the features on the

news app. Our correspondent has been in Paris since Saturday and I think

what has emerged in the last 24 hours is the number of opportunities

the Paris authorities and the Belgian authorities had to stop this

attack on Friday. Details are emerging about the various attackers

and some of them at least were known at various stages to the

authorities. That is a real concern for ordinary people. One of them had

been on the radar of the intelligence services in 2012, he

was wanted for a terrorist conspiracy. He skipped bail and an

arrest warrant was put out for him. Another French citizen behind the

attacks was a petty criminal with suspected Islamist links. We will

get a report on what we do know about the men who carried out these

attacks. That is what we know about the

attackers so far. We have heard this morning in fact that French media

are reporting police have discovered a safe house they believe was

becauseth used by the attackers before Friday night to prepare their

attacks in the Bobigny districts in Paris. They have also carried out a

huge number of raids again, about 120 raids at various properties

across the country overnight and carried out more arrests as their

investigation continues. We have been hearing more

exceptional stories from survivors and in particular a lot of people

want to know who happened to the pregnant woman. Many saw footage on

social media and websites, what can you tell us about her? Yes, this was

the Bataclan Concert Hall down the road from here where #1r50 0 people

had been packed in there watching that American rock band -- 1500

people. That is when the gunmen burst in and caused mayhem and

terror. People ran for their lives, including this heavily pregnant

woman, to escape from the gunfire. She hung on to a ledge outside. But

she was pregnant and she was screaming "help, help, I'm pregnant,

catch me if I fall", then according to one newspaper here, there was a

man called Sebastian who'd also escaped and he said that he saw her

as he ran from the gunfire as well. She was begging people down below if

they could catch her if she fell. They were about 15 metres from the

ground. He says he held on for five minutes and then the pregnant woman,

who was exhausted, begged him to help get her back inside and that's

what he did. So he did help her very considerably, but the ordeal went on

and in fact when he got back in, he said he didn't know where she went

afterwards, he went back in and five minutes later, he felt the barrel of

a Kalashnikov against his leg and a terrorist yelling "get down from

there, lie on the ground". It gives you an indication of the utter

terror of that night, Victoria and just how people, as they ran, tried

to survive that onslaught, so many bullets flew around. Appalling

horror that evening. I asked you yesterday, Ben, about the atmosphere

in Paris. You described it as tense. Behind you today, we can see it's

much busier. How would you describe it now? It is tense. Let me show you

what is going on here because we are in one of the great landmarks really

of central Paris. This is where people come in times of pain and

trouble. They came here after the Charlie Hebdo killings in and this

is where they came for the protests after that. Now, they are leaving

messages, some saying Je Suis Paris, you know, I am Parisian, we must go

on. Another message is one that means Paris will always be Paris,

whatever the terrorists do, however many people they kill and however

they attack us. There is nervousness and tension. The President's said,

you know, they are at war with terrorism and the Prime Minister

here has said heap have to brace themselves for more attacks. I think

we can talk to a couple of people who've come here to lay messages and

to try to remember the dead. Tell us why you have come here? Je Suis

Paris, we have come to see how Paris stay together, in this time of

tragedy, we are solid. It's just terrible what happened. We come to

pay our respects. Are you at all frightened of coming out on to the

streets? No, no, not at all. Can Paris bounce back from this?

Definitely, definitely. We cannot fear the terrorists. In Paris, life

goes on, life goes on. What did you think after the attacks here that

killed so many people, 129 people lost their lives, a lot of young

people like you actually? For us, we are ex-pats that live here but we

are part of the French culture and people and we come here to show that

we are all one, that even though it can be scary, we have to show the

terrorists it's not going to stop it, we move on with our lives and we

united, we are not going to stop, we are going to continue to live our

lives without fear because terrorism doesn't rule us, fear does not rule

us and we are Parisians. The attacks on Friday were almost against people

having a good time weren't they, people in cafes, at a rock concert,

football match? That is what I think the terrorists are trying to do, try

to attack places where you would spend your Friday, Saturday night.

That is why we have to come out and show them every day why we don't

have fear and what they are trying to do will not work. The French

Prime Minister's said there could be more attacks and that people should

prepare themselves for more - do you think there might be? We have to be

prepared. We have to focus on what is important. There's been a lot of

solidarity throughout the world. The tri-colour has been shown on Paris

buildings. Do you think that's helped? The support around the world

has been fantastic. All around Facebook and social media, it's been

amazing, the support, and that needs to keep on coming. Thank you so much

for talking to us. Good luck. Thank you. That is the message from a lot

of the Parisians we have talked to here. Some of them have been

nervous. On Saturday, we got here early in the morning off the

Eurostar, the streets were almost empty, people afraid to come out of

their homes. Now they are coming out here, laying flowers, lighting

candles and showing the messages of defiance, Victoria. Ben brown live

in Paris, many thanks. France has carried out more raids overnight

against so-called Islamic state in Raqqa. The French President has

vowed to destroy IS and declared that his country is at war. It comes

as the first of a series of flights carrying Syrian refugees from camps

to the UK is expected to arrive today. The Government's pledged to

take 20,000 Syrians over the next five years. We thought it would be

useful to speak to some Syrian nationals about their feelings in

the wake of Friday's attacks and get their views on what is happening in

their own country under President Assad and under so-called Islamic

state. The Reverend has family in Syria and he regularly returns home.

Reverend Nadhim Nassar has family in Syria and regularly returns to

his home town of Latika Muzna al Naib Fardous Bahbouh.

Give us an insight into what is happening under President Assad and

Islamic state? It's terrifying living in Syria with the war going

on for over five years. We are incredibly sad. We have the same

struggle in Syria, the same terror, it's horrifying. We hope to find a

solution for the Syria conflict both through getting rid of the

extremists and also ending the Assad atrocities. Can you give us a real

insight into life for your friends and family back home? Let me start

with what Syrian activists did yesterday. They had a protest in a

stronghold Isis town to denounce and to show their solidarity with

France. OK, so just let's pause on that for a second. So, to have the

courage to have such a protest to show solidarity with France in a

town which is run by so-called Islamic state, I mean that takes

something? That is not the only town that did this. Another heavily bound

area by Assad and Russia, have held a candle light vigil for the

victims. Syrians are very clear about their enemies. Isis is an

enemy but they also know the cause of Isis which is the Assad regime.

And if the West want to end Isis, if they want to root Isis down, they

have to tackle the disease first. So just explain what you say is that

link between President Assad and Isis, how did Isis, how was it born

from the way President Assad runs your country? Well, the Assad regime

put all the civil society activists in jail and released the extremists.

Extremism only grows in the shadows of great aggression. Imagine Paris

happening every single day in your country with the world turning your

back on you, negotiating with your killer, legitimizing your killer and

not even considering the voice of the victims. The words yesterday

stood in solidarity for a moment of silence with Paris. Is the world

standing in solidarity for Paris, yes. Is it standing in solidarity

for Syrians? What do you think, Reverend? To put everything in one

corner and to say this is the problem, it's a bit simplistic

because the oppositions were also fragmented and they worked with Isis

very closely in the beginning and, before they turned against them.

That is because Isis and the opposition parties were united

against President Assad? I can't agree with that. I disagree. Isis

fight the senior rebels. A really good fact - since the Russian

aggression started on Syria, Isis gained more ground because Russia is

bombing Syrian rebels. OK, but it's been asked by western leaders

yesterday in Turkey to stop doing that and we heard from president

Putin that he would concentrate his fire power on so-called Islamic

state. I was in Iraq also, I just came back from there a couple of

weeks ago, and the people who left Mosul were devastated in Iraq, as

well as in Syria. The minorities in Syria have been persecuted,

displaced and they have been... They are the majorities as well. I'm

coming to that. The pain of the minorities is not less than the

majority because war is war, war, the victims of war usually is

everybody. You were recently in Latakia, how much has it changed?

Dramatically. It changed because it tripled in population. Now, for

example, schools are overwhelmed. . ... People people are flooding

there? Of course. We have a problem with water. Electricity,

accommodation. Every hole in the city is occupied by families, so

when in a very short time you have tripled your population, the

infrastructure doesn't hold. That is where a lot of help is needed.

OK. Those who are displaced from within Syria, they are invisible to

the world. Everybody concentrates - you yourself said the planes are

bringing refugees from the camps - what about the people inside Syria?

There are no, for example, minorities in the camps. Not a

single Christian exists in the camps around Syria. Either in Jordan,

Iraq, or in Turkey or in Lebanon. All the Christians and the

minorities are displaced within Syria. What do we do with that? So

the problem is far bigger. If we want to tackle the problem of

refugees, let's find a political solution for the conflict in Syria.

This is when we fight really the problem of refugees. I'm going to

pause there, but thank you so much all of you for coming on the

programme, thank you. Thank you to you too for your many,

many messages regarding Thomas, the Parisian who spoke to us earlier on

the problem who told us about surviving what happened at the

Bataclan Theatre on Friday evening. Nick on Twitter says, a lovely

articulate fella he was, so right, Primevel feelings of revenge after

the attacks are not helpful. Susan tweets that Thomas was precious,

wise, strong, brave, thank you for your heart rending message of love.

We must learn from you. And Imelda tweets, dear Thomas, survivor of the

Paris attacks, you say please love people, I hope love prevails, so do

I, with my admiration, love. Thank you for those.

The actor Charlie Sheen who claims to have slept with thousands

of women is expected to announce he is HIV positive on US television.

He rose to fame in the 1980s after starring in hit films

Now Come on, boy, get your skin on that thing. We ain't got all day.

Dig, dig! Somebody once wrote, "hell is the imPope Benedict of reason,"

that's what this place feels like. It's hell. I hate it already, it's

only been a week. Some God damn week. The hardest thing I've ever

done is go on point, three times this week, I don't even know what

I'm doing. I'm so tired. In 2011, he was sacked

from his starring role in the sitcom Two and a Half Men, with the show's

producers accusing him of Joining me now from Hollywood is

Showbiz Journalist Jeanne Wolf. Why do we expect this announcement

from them? What are we expecting? The whole town is guessing but there

have been leaks from the National Enquirer, from people all over the

city, that Charlie is going to say that he was declared HIV-positive.

We don't know what his demeanour will be, we don't know what his

attitude will be, there is talk that he's been on treatment and that his

blood is clear of HIV, there are a lot of questions and you've got to

understand, Charlie is wild guy, he certainly declared that he was above

treatment, unstoppable, that he could have women and prostitutes and

drugs and he would be fine. For a lot of people, in a crazy way he was

kind of a hero. Other people, they are furious, they think this is a

morality tale and Charlie is going to get his. He has been around for a

long time. He's part, -- he is part of a Hollywood family. A lot of

people love him very much. They remember him as a young guy, they

remember his success. This is a shocking disclosure no matter what

your lifestyle is. If the announcement is as people expect, I

wonder what sort of reaction you will get? I think you'll see a wide

range of reactions. Some people will be very angry at his lifestyle and

things he has said and done, other people be very sympathetic, you will

see some legal action, lawsuits, every bit of speculation. He has got

ex-wives, an ex-fiance, he had a long record of acting success and a

long record of wild living. Thank you for talking to us. This news is

just in. Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe has said he has increased the number of

armed response vehicles in London by a third. He said there would be a

fool team available waiting to respond to any attack like this. He

said this would involve increasing the number of firearms trained

officers in London by a third. 2000 of London's 32,000 officers are

firearms trained. It is not clear when he is going to increase the

number but he says he definitely wants to do it at some point. Russia

says it was a bond that brought down a Russian airliner in the the Jets,

killing 224 people. Traces of explosives have been found in the

debris. Reports that the Egyptians have arrested two of the ploys have

been denied by authorities there. Ben Brown is in Paris with the

latest. A lot of developments this morning. The massive manhunt going

on for the terror suspect Salah Abdeslam. He is believed to have

fled across the border from France to his native Belgium. French police

investigating the attacks have carried out another series of raids,

more than 100, and the American Secretary of State is here, he has

been holding talks with Francois Hollande and showing solidarity with

France. He described Islamic state as psychopathic monsters. I am

convinced that Daesh will feel even more pressure. There has been a

military response to what happened. French warplanes carried out more

air strikes in Syria overnight, particularly the stronghold of the

city of Raqqa. Francois ball-on says they will be pursued without mercy.

In the rest of the news, Islamist extremists are planning cyber

attacks according to George Osborne. The money for cyber security is

being doubled to reach ?2 billion per year by 2020. He will speak in

the next few minutes or so. The latest inflation figures show that

the UK is now in its longest run of flat or falling prices since records

began. The supermarket price war and low fuel costs kept inflation

unchanged at -0.1% in October. Facing a new future. Surgeons in the

United States say they have carried out the world's most extensive scalp

and face transplant. The patient, a volunteer firefighter, suffered

severe burns as he tried to rescue a woman. His operation lasted 26

hours. Medics replaced his entire scalp, ears and eyelids. Times the

sport. Here are your sports headlines. Players will represent

their country with more pride than ever says Didier Duchamp, the

manager of France. It comes four days after the stadium where they

played was targeted. The Republic of Ireland have made it to Euro 2016,

Jonathan Walters scoring both goals. Andy Murray won his first

match at the 80 peter finals, and he next faces Rafael Nadal. -- ATP

World Tour Finals. Victory would ensure that he ends the year as

world number two for the first time. Michael Vaughan said the side

would be celebrating that they will not be facing Mitchell Johnson again

after he announced retirement from international cricket at the end of

the current season. French police investigating attacks in Paris have

carried out more than 100 raids across the country in search of

radical jihadists. Efforts are underway to find that key suspect.

He is a Belgian national believed to be one of the only ones to have

survived. What is the focus? Yes, he is still at large, despite two

raids, one here and one in Strasbourg. The raid focused on a

house that was known to be linked to people who were already in Syria. It

was a house where are woman had gone. Salah Abdeslam was not in the

apartment. We thought we'd give you a flavour of where we are. At the

back we have the town hall. The mere is in there under considerable

pressure at the moment. The Prime Minister and the interior minister

pointing to the fact that this is always being linked to terror

attacks and plots around Europe. Look at how many satellite trucks

are here. Very much the focus of the European media, more and more

arriving every day. As we show you around you might not on the face of

this think it is a pool community -- think it is not well off. It is the

second worst off community in Belgium. They have a particular

problem with conservative ideological ideas in the community.

The people who are going to Syria are second and third generation. As

we spin around you will see that there is a very big media presence.

This is about the best-known building in Belgium. The reason for

that is that they are up on the first floor, that is the family home

of Salah Abdeslam. His mother is in there. His brother, who was picked

up on Saturday and interviewed by police but released without charge.

He works at the town hall. He came out to speak to as yesterday,

saying, the terrible events, the family is very shocked but we have

no idea, my mother is grieving because she has lost one son, a

brother who blew himself up and her other son is now linked to an

international manhunt. People have gone in and out of the door to give

condolences to the mother. Obviously very difficult time for the mother.

Let's go to GCHQ, the Chancellor is speaking about potential cyber

attacks. We must act as one, and as David Cameron said, we will do

everything we possibly can to help the French at this moment of

national trauma. That includes making available to them the

sharpest of our own national capabilities, which includes the

skills and capabilities here at GCHQ. Before the dreadful events of

the weekend, we'd already indicated that we would be increasing

substantially the resources that we dedicate to countering the terrorist

threat posed by Islamic State. The Prime Minister has made clear that a

further 190 staff will be recruited to keep Britain's safe. This was

already going to be an important outcome of the Spending Review that

I will announce next week. What has unfolded in Paris has reminded us

all that it is a vital one as well. As the threat develops, we will need

to make sure that our capabilities developed to match it. Following

what happened to the flight two Russia, the payment has announced we

will be doubling the amount that we spend on aviation security. The

answer is not just more resources but ensuring those who keep us safe

have the right legal framework that allows them to do their job while

preserving the values and the freedoms which we are so determined

to defend. Through the investigatory power bill, the government and

parliament will make sure that the security agency and the police have

the powers they need to access vital intelligence about the activities of

those who wish harm. That the termination to confront threats

against our country is at the heart of what you do here at GCHQ -- this

determination. To the men and women of GCHQ in this audience I say this,

the TV cameras today will not show your faces and the public will never

know your names but you are the unsung heroes who never get the

recognition you deserve because of the sort of work that you do. But

you work day and night to keep us safe and I want to thank you. One of

the ways you keep us safe is by tracking terrorist groups and

collecting the information we need to stop those attacks. Our

intelligence agencies historically disrupt about one terrorist plot

every year but this year you have prevented seven. Let me thank you on

behalf of the British people. I'll so want to thank those in the

audience who are here because your partner is in keeping Britain safe

in cyberspace. Not just those from GCHQ but across government, the

Armed Forces, academia. This is a shared effort between us, and

earlier this year, the Prime Minister asked me to chair the

committee on cyber. I see the huge collective effort being used to

combat cyber attacks. As Chancellor, I know about the enormous potential

for the Internet to drive economic growth. I'm also acutely aware of

the risk of cyber attack undermining the confidence on which our economy

rests. I know that we cannot afford to build strong cyber defences

unless they rest on the solid foundation of sound public finances.

Next week, I will present the conclusions of the Spending Review

that will deliver those solid foundations. We've already reached

provisional agreement with four departments and today I can confirm

that we have provisionally settled a further seven Whitehall departments.

The Cabinet Office, HM Revenue and Customs, the Scottish, Welsh and

Northern Irish offices. This means over half of the Whitehall

departments have now reached provisional agreements on their

resource budgets. Combined these departments will on average see a

reduction in real term spending of 24% by 2019-20, contributing to our

economic security and enabling us to spend more on key priorities,

priorities that include our national security.

I'm very clear that we cannot afford national security without economic

security. As we have seen in recent months and weeks, there'll be no

economic security Security for our country without national security.

Nowhere is that more true than when it comes to cyber.

Now, when I was born, the Internet was barely two years old, it was the

preserve of academics, used to connect dozens, rather than billions

of users. There weren't many at the time who predicted it would

transform our world. Today, the Internet's changed our world in

countless ways and continues to evolve at a pace that would have

stunned even its own pioneers. Every part of the way we live is being

touched and reshaped by it. Britain helped create the Internet. One of a

long line of British scientists have given us an outsize role in shaping

our own digital future. Britain is enriched by the Internet and has

embraced the Internet, a far higher proportion of British retail is done

online than in any other country in the world. Now, that's an enormous

economic and commercial opportunity for our country. When the Internet

was first created, it was built on trust. That trust, appropriate

inside a community of scholars, is not merited in a world with hostile

powers, criminals and terrorists. The Internet's made us richer,

freer, connected and informed in ways its founders cannot have dreamt

of, but it's also become a Vector of attack, espionage, crime and harm.

That's what I want to talk to you about this morning.

Government has a duty to protect the public from cyber attack and ensure

the public can protect itself in cyberspace. I want to set out how we

are fulfilling that duty and I'll explain how we have invested in

Britain's cyber security and set out our plan for the next five. The

national cyber plan I'm announcing means investing in defending Britain

in a cyber age. It's a key part of the Spending

Review that I will deliver next week.

For the review is all about security.

Economic security, national security and the opportunity that comes to a

country that provides that kind of security.

It's right that we choose to invest in our cyber defences, even at a

time when we must cut other budgets. For our country, defending our

citizens from hostile powers, criminals or terrorists, the

Internet represents a critical access of potential vulnerability

from our banks, to our cars, our military to our schools, whatever is

online is also a target. We see from this place, every day,

the maligned scope of our adversary's goals, their warped

sophistication and frenetic activity.

The stakes could hardly be higher. If our electricity supply or our air

traffic controlor our hospitals were successfully attacked online, the

impact could be measured, not just in terms of economic damage, but of

lives lost. Isil's murderous brutality has a

strong digital element. At a time when so many others are using the

Internet to enhance freedom and give expression to liberal values and

creativity, they are using it for evil. Let's be clear, Isil are

already using the Internet for hideous propaganda purposes, for

radicalisation, for operational planning too. They have not so Farc

been able to use it to kill people by attacking our infrastructure

through cyber attack. They do not yet have that capability, but we

know they want it and we know they are doing their best to build it. So

when we talk about tackling Isil, that means tackling their cyber

threat, as well as the threat of their guns and bombs and their

knives. It's one of the many cyber threats

we are working to defeat. Getting cyber security right requires new

thinking. But certain principles remain true in cyberspace as they

are true about security in the physical world. Citizens need to

follow basic rules of keeping themselves safe, installing security

software, downloading software June dates, using strong passwords.

Companies need to protect their own networks and harden themselves

against cyber attacks. The starting point must be that every British

company is a target, every British network will be attacked and that

scriber crime is not something that happens to other people. The

Government cannot duck its responsibilities. There are certain

things only Government can do in cyberspace, just as in the physical

world. Government has a unique ability to aggregate and to educate.

Only Government can legislate and regulate, only Government can

collect secret intelligence. Government has a duty to protect the

country from hostile attack, Government has a duty to protect its

citizens and companies from crime. Only Government can defend against

the most sophisticated threats, using its sovereign capability. That

is exactly what we will do. It is this sovereign capability that

brings me here to GCHQ. Through my time in office, I've seen for myself

the extraordinary quality of this institution, the dedication, the

integrity and ingenuity of its staff and the difference you make to

protecting our nation. Coming here as the first Chancellor to give a

speech in GCHQ, I'm conscious of the rich institution in our island's

story. The father of GCHQ was Winston Churchill. It was his first

Lord of the admiralty that he established Room 40, as it was then

called, and gave it its charter. It was an operation to decrypt German

commune cases during the First World War. A secret held on an

extraordinary close hold even within Government.

Circulated its intercepts on pieces of paper called flinsies. By 1924,

he's been Chancellor of the Exchequer, actually a pretty lousy

one! He wrote to the Prime Minister, Stanley Baldwin, saying this; in the

years I've been in office since Room 40 began in the autumn of 1914, I've

read every one of its flimsies and attach more importance to them as a

means to judging policies than any other source of knowledge at the

disposal of the state". ". STUDIO: The Chancellor speaking at

GCHQ there. Let's talk to Norman Smith what WHO's been listening.

What would you draw from that? A couple of interesting things. We

think of Isis using the Internet to spread their propaganda to try to

radicalise fear. Mr Osborne's fear is that they are trying to use it as

much as bombs and Kalashnikovs, they want to wager cyberwar to disrupt

our banks and energy supplies, to disrupt our hospitals, and therefore

extra cash is being shovelled towards cyber security. The second

thing I think is interesting, I don't know if you heard him talking

about the agreements he's reached with various spending departments to

implement cuts of around 20%. What is interesting is, so many

Government departments are having their budgets cut, but the one area

not being cut is those involved in antiterrorism. So we have more cash

for cyber securities and more spies being recruited, more money for the

SAS and you just sense that when it comes to tackling IS, the Government

is finding plenty of cash for that. I must ask you about Jeremy Corbyn,

in particular his own party's reaction, his own MPs' reaction to

his comments about shoot-to-kill. Remind our audience about what he

said about shoot-to-kill? That's why I've come here to the committee

corridor, it's deserted now but last night Labour MPs were shuffling out

here, many shaking is their heads and in particular at his suggestions

that the police were allowed to kill terrorists on the streets if they

were waging attacks. If you were Prime Minister would you be happy to

order people, to order to shoot-to-kill? I'm not happy with

the shoot-to-kill policy in general. I think that is quite dangerous and

I think can often be counterproductive. I think you have

to have security that prevents people firing off weapons where you

can. There are various degrees of doing things, as we know, but the

idea you end up with a war object streets is not a good thing. Surely

you have to work to prevent these things happening that,'s got to be

the priority. Labour MPs were utterly appalled at that. Let me

give you a flavour of what some of them said. John Mann said, are you

telling Labour Party members that if someone is outside with a

Kalashnikov, you are not going to shoot them. Another said, when

people are getting shot in cafe terraces in Paris, we don't want to

be ruminating about shoot-to-cull policies and another MP said I

didn't think it could get any worse, there was fury, rather than just a

hot rage. They didn't like the fact he wouldn't give them a free vote on

air strikes, they were unhappy at his scepticism over using a drone to

kill so-called Jihadi John and they were deeply, deeply disturbed by his

ties to the Stop the War Coalition. You sense in the aftermath of the

Paris atrocities the discontent, the dismay at the leadership of Jeremy

Corbyn which is just building and building within the Labour Party.

Thank you very much. Before the end of the programme, we

wanted to bring you this moving and uplifting conversation between a

father and his son in Paris which has been shared thousands and

thousands and thousands of times on social media.

Oh, my gosh, that is absolutely divine. We have shared that on

Twitter and Facebook if you want to share it again or see it yourself.

Thank you very much to all of you who've got in touch, particularly

about the interview with Thomas who survived the Bataclan massacre on

Friday night. More messages from you, Lynn saying "amazing programme

today, peace and light to everyone involved", Louisa says, love and

forgiveness sounds fine, but if it's your mother, daughter or child shot

dead, no". Another viewer says, they kill easily without compassion and

they do not feel human emotion. Isis won't stop until we collectively and

militarily stop them. Ian says, I didn't see the full interview with

Thomas, but listening to him brought tears to my eyes, God bless you

young man. LOL says what a wonderful, wise and mature chap,

revenge is never the answer. If you want to watch the interview again

and the other survivors of previous terrorist attacks, you will be able

to find it later on our programme page at www.bbc.co.uk/victoria, see

you tomorrow, buy.