30/03/2016 Victoria Derbyshire

I'm Victoria Derbyshire, welcome to the programme.

The top news story today: Port Talbot's steelworks,

It makes the steel in every new 1p and 2 p coin,

The owners say they are considering selling off the loss-making

business. We will bring you all the details.

Also on the programme: living in the shadow of child

Residents of the town tell us they're ashamed to say

The something to be so negative in the press and in the media, there's

no politics at all. Now, if you go anywhere and say you are from

Rotherham, it is the first thing they ask you about. No one knows

anything about you. And the RSPCA hid evidence,

behaved unlawfully and provoked a hate campaign against a family,

when it seized and killed their elderly cat,

a secret review has found. The RSPCA and the owner of Claude

the cat will talk to each other for the first time since

the publication of that report. Hello.

Welcome to the programme. We're live until 11am every

weekday morning. Throughout the programme,

we'll bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories, and,

as always, really keen to hear from you on all the stories

we're talking about. Particularly if you live

in Rotherham, tell us what it's like living in a town which has

become so synonomous We've got a report on that

in ten minutes' time. If you're tweeting, use the hashtag

#VictoriaLIVE and if you text, you will be charged

at the standard network rate. The government is understood

to be in urgent talks with the Indian-owned conglomerate

Tata to try to keep Port Talbot steelworks in south Wales open,

after the firm said it would consider selling

off its entire UK steel business. As well as sites in Wales,

Tata also operates in Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire, South Yorkshire

and County Durham, employing about 15,000

people in all. A board meeting in Mumbai last night

rejected a rescue plan for Port Talbot as "unaffordable" -

despite lobbying from union leaders, The future of 4,000 jobs

is now a little clearer. The steel plant won't close,

as feared, but will be sold off. The uncertainty for workers

like Andrew continues. It affects so many people

in the wider area and the wider Work like that will become more

scarce if the steelworks goes. Owned by the Indian conglomerate

Tata Steel, the plant has been It faced what's been called a toxic

cocktail of conditions - high energy prices, a strong

pound and of course, It's been producing millions

of tonnes of steel it doesn't need and has been accused of selling it

here at artificially low prices. Even so, the union put

forward a rescue plan to save jobs and turn a profit

again within two years. But in Mumbai late yesterday,

Tata's board unanimously rejected It will take time, it will need

support and we will ensure we make We expect them to be reasonable

sellers and responsible sellers. They've also called for 750 job

losses announced in January to be put on hold and urged the Welsh

and UK governments to intervene. We understand there are

potential buyers interested. This community video shows the vital

role the steelworks plays There's a difficult road ahead,

but it does now appear With us now is our

Political Guru Norman Smith. What kind of things might the

government be considering in terms of a rescue plan? Their preferred

option would be to find some buyer, to come in and take over Port

Talbot. That would be the preferred option. But there is real concern

that Tata Steel has pretty much given them very little time to do

this. They seem to want a deal done in weeks and if it isn't, they will

pull the plug. The government says a will need months to sort it out. The

fallback from that is twofold. One is to look at some kind of

management - workforce buyout, which would mean the people who currently

run the plant is taking it over. But the difficulty is they would have to

come up with an awful lot of money. They have already come up with their

own so-called turnaround plan to save the plant and they put that to

the board last night and the board said it was too extensive and would

take too long. There is a plan and the viewing government is that if

the workforce and management think it's a good plan, they should see if

they can put it into practice and see if they can get the funds to get

it up and running. The final fallback position is the direct

state intervention, whether through loans or aid. They are not specific

about how, and they don't say it would be full renationalisation but

there would be a role for government in keeping the plant open. The

bottom line is this, just talking to people in government, their view is

that the steel industry is a vital part of the economy. It is a crucial

economic and strategic interest for Britain. We can't rely on the

Chinese or whoever to provide us with steel. We have to have our own

ability to make it. That is a massive step for the government to

take because if you just go back a few months and member what happened

that the Redcar steelworks which was allowed to close, now the government

view is that Port Talbot must continue as a steel-making plant. In

other words, the blast furnaces must continue. If that means some kind of

state involvement, so be it. That represents a huge leap for a

Conservative government who traditionally have been all about

leaving it to the free market. In this context, they are saying they

are prepared to get involved. But if it is a loss-making business at the

company say it is, how is it a sustainable business in the long

term? Well, the argument would be that, OK, there's massive

overproduction globally in steel at the moment but the Chinese are

shutting down large numbers of their steel plants at the moment. In other

words, the market will turn. You can encourage the market in Britain. One

of the other things ministers are looking at are much tighter

procurement rules. These are the rules which stipulate where you can

buy your steel from. The government would say to HS2 or other brig

infrastructure products -- big infrastructure projects that the

steel has to come from British plants. You have to comply with

various EU rules to do that but it is trying to tilt the market in

favour of British steel. In that way, it will provide a more

profitable future for the likes of Port Tolbert. Thank you for joining

us. Now a summary of the rest of the

day's news with Joanna. A man has been arrested after two

people were found stabbed to death Police say it

followed an altercation Two other people were injured

and are being treated in hospital. A police spokeswoman said

they believe the victims and the man arrested at the scene

were known to each other. The man who forced a passenger plane

to ground in Cyprus, after claiming to be

wearing a suicide belt, Seif Eldin Mustafa's motives

for grounding the plane remain unclear but were not

related to terrorism. He ended up giving himself

up after a stand-off All the passengers and crew were

safely freed. The campaigner who exposed

widespread child sexual exploitation in Rotherham has told this programme

she believes the true number of victims could be far higher

than previously estimated. In 2014, a report found

at least 1,400 children in Rotherham had suffered appalling

sexual exploitation, including multiple rape,

over at least 16 years. The crimes were committed mainly

by men of Pakistani heritage. Jayne Senior, a youth

worker from the town, has now written a book

about the fight to help the girls and bring their

attackers to justice. She believes the number of children

abused could be closer to 2,000. I think one of the things for me is,

using this recent court case as an example, a few of those

who were giving evidence, I had never even come across them,

so obviously these were girls I think there are a lot

of people out there who have Also, there are a lot of files

and paperwork that I believe there are enquiries

as to where they have gone. We'll have more from Jayne Senior

later in the programme. Every nursery in England should

have a qualified early-years teacher to help children develop key skills

like speech and language, according to the charity

Save The Children. It says that thousands of youngsters

struggle when they start school because toddlers' brains

are not stimulated enough Our reporter Bryony

MacKenzie has more. All simple activities

that children find fun. But experts say studies show

nursery years are crucial to a child's long-term

development, and a qualified early-years teacher

in every nursery would help ensure more children thrived

rather than struggled. Nursery should always

be about play and fun. An early-years teacher is not

designed to turn a nursery They are there to create

the right fun activities that help children get the language

and social skills that ensure A survey has also found that when it

comes to early years, parents are undervaluing how much

young children can learn. 61% said school was the most

important learning period. Almost half had lower expectations

than government guidelines Over half said they didn't

get enough advice Currently, nurseries in England

are not legally required to employ Although, like here,

many do support their junior staff in achieving childcare

qualifications. The government says it has made

significant investment in the early years sector and the number

of qualified staff has risen. Victoria will have more

on this after 9:30am. The RSPCA has been accused of acting

unlawfully after seizing a family's pet cat, which was then put down

against the owners' wishes. An official review deemed

that the RSPCA behaved unlawfully and provoked a hate campaign

against the Byrnes family, when it seized and killed

their elderly cat, called Claude. The review was conducted

by Stephen Wooler, the former And Victoria will be speaking

to the owner of Claude at 9:45am. The historical drama Wolf Hall leads

the nominations for this year 's BAFTA awards. The adaptation of the

Hillary Mantell novels set during the reign of Henry VIII has been

nominated for four awards including four Mark Rylance for his portrayal

of Thomas Cromwell. More at 9:30am. Later in the programme,

we'll talk to a group of parents about that report Joanna mentioned,

which shows toddlers are being set back decades if their brains aren't

adequately stimulated before It says many children

are being disadvantaged by poor language ability, which could have

been developed at nursery. This report is suggesting there

should be a qualified teacher, a graduate in each nursery to

stimulate toddlers' brains properly. Really keen to hear your views

on that this morning, particularly if you've got

pre-school age children. What do you think of the suggestion

that a qualified teachers should be in each nursery in England?

Do get in touch with us throughout the morning.

Use the hashtag #VictoriaLIVE and if you text,

you will be charged at the standard network rate.

Looking forward to talking to the mums and toddlers in the next ten

minutes or so. More on a big day for's England's cricketers.

It's a big day for England's cricketers - both the men and women

are playing World T20 semifinals in Delhi.

The women are in action first, from 10:00am,

they take on the defending champions Australia who've beaten England

The men face an in-form New Zealand in the last four.

Here in Delhi, the police officers behind me have been getting their

final briefing on the huge day of cricket and a hugely significant one

for England. Remember, it is the men second, the women first in their

semifinals in the stadium. In the history of the women's World T20,

they're just have been two champions, Australia and England. In

recent times, Australia have dominated. England's victory was in

2009, a golden era for the team when Ebony Rainford Brent was a key

member of the squad. She is in Delhi and I asked her if she had seen

enough from the England team in this tournament to believe they can beat

Australia this time. I think the bowling at the moment is the best it

has ever been, to have Anya Shrubsole and Katherine Brunt

opening the bowling is brilliant but the overall balance of the squad,

from the seam bowlers and the spinners, that is what is clicking

for England. Maybe a few concerned with the middle order but the

batting, especially the top order, Beaumont and Edwards, is fantastic.

England's men play New Zealand, who have been the form team of the

tournament but they are unknown quantity for England, a team they

have good recent memories of beating. -- a known quantity. 20

over cricket is increasingly the format the world pays attention to,

the format the world pays money for. To have both teams in the semifinal

in Delhi is one of the most important days in recent English

cricket history. England manager Roy Hodgson says

last night's 2-1 defeat in the friendly against

the Netherlands put a dampener on the week after their

heroics in Berlin. It started well for

England at Wembley. Man-of-the-Match Jamie Vardy gave

them the lead, with his second goal But the Dutch equalised

from the penalty spot and as the England defence

were distracted by an apparent foul on Phil Jagielka, Luciano Narsingh

scored the winner. Like the Dutch, Scotland also

won't be at the Euros but they're of the game against Denmark

at Hampden Park last night. That's three wins in a row

for Gordon Strachan's side. Remi Garde's dismal spell as manager

of Aston Villa is over - the club announced last night

that he'd left the club Garde was in charge of Villa

for less than five months, winning just twice in 20

Premier League games. Villa are destined

for the Championship, they're 12 points from safety

with just seven games remaining. David Moyes and Nigel Pearson

are among the names being mentioned as candidates to take

over at Villa Park. That's all the sport,

back to you, Victoria. This treat came in from Don who says

he works import Talbot. This morning: residents

of Rotherham, a town at the centre of the horrific child

grooming scandal, tell us they're ashamed to say

it's where they live. It's officially estimated that

at least 1,400 children suffered harrowing sexual exploitation

in Rotherham between 1997 and 2013. But later in the programme,

we'll talk to the woman who fought for police and social workers

to take the problem seriously. She says the true figure

could be as high as 2000. The attackers were mainly men

of British Pakistani heritage. Now, for many people,

the very name "Rotherham" So what impact has it had

on the community? How have people's behaviours

changed as a result? Our reporter James Longman returns

to the town to talk to families, business owners and one of the many

hundreds of young women abused, to find out whether

Rotherham can recover. His report contains strong

language and some details But because of everything that has

gone off, it is difficult There is good and bad everywhere,

but it's not where I want to be There's bad in everybody,

it does not matter what colour You have to pick

your lives up again. You never expect it to happen

in a town you live in. It's the evil of some people,

you can never quite believe. There's a lot of

abusers in the town. I would not want my children growing

up in Rotherham either. This is Rotherham, the town

at the centre of one of the biggest child abuse scandals

in recent history. The police and the council

were found to have totally failed So we have come up to the town

to find out how a place like this Guilty verdicts in the trial that

exposed the exploitation 1400 children subjected to appalling

sexual abuse in Rotherham by gangs Because the gangs were of Pakistani

origin, and most of their victims were white, the authorities shied

away from the issue. Some were worried about

being called racist. Others were more bothered

about community cohesion Bullying, sexism, suppression

and misplaced political correctness. There were vicious and traumatic

events for the courts, that for many of these young women,

completely shattered their lives. At first, I just, I don't know,

I thought it was a bit freaky. Then it just seemed to be really

nice, like I was given compliments. He used to always cuddle me

and kiss me, tell me And then he would always

text me nice things. He would always ring me

when I was in school, He always said he would never

let anybody hurt me. And then on the day he attacked me,

I could not breathe. I don't think there's many

people that would say they are from Rotherham

and they're happy about it. I don't think there's many people

around who would say that any more. For summat to be so negative

in the press and in the media, Now, if you do go anywhere and say,

"I'm from Rotherham", it is the first thing

they ask you about. Nobody knows anything

good about you. There's things that, like,

I would do massively different. If I go out on a night

out with my friends, there's no way we would get a taxi

any more, especially not on us own. We will get a lift or we will stay

in the house rather than going out. How do you think

Rotherham has changed? Like, when I were at school,

we would go to the park and hang about until nine or ten o'clock

at night and then go home. Whereas now, like, I say to my kids

who are coming here, "Don't go anywhere when it's dark,

don't do this, don't do that. It's all right, everyone will say

like, "Parents should not be letting them out",

but it's easy for the kids They can say, "I'm going

to my mate's house", and the mate will say the same thing

to their mum and dad. They are roaming about

on the streets and it's not a safe I think it would just be like,

you can't trust anybody. Nobody walks about with a "rapist"

sticker on their forehead. You don't know who they are

or what they look like. They are quite obviously still out

there, living a normal life. If you go out around town

or if you go shopping in the town centre, it could even be a person

who is serving you at the till. We just used to meet

at the leisure centre, Sometimes, we just used to sit

there and talk and listen to music. Then there would be times

when he used to force me to have Force me to do other stuff,

even though I said no. Then if I did not do it,

he used to threaten me. I'm totally against

what they have done. We are just, like, normal, you know,

people, like anybody. Don't worry about

colour or religion. We are just trying to make a living

at the end of the day. You can't point fingers at,

you know, any person. What is it like for you being a cab

driver now in Rotherham? People are, you know,

nervous about it. They are probably

scared, I don't know. You don't know what they are

thinking in the back of their mind. Trade has been affected

sometimes, you know. It is just like, you know,

customers on the weekend, in town, picked them up,

one lad, two lads. One lad trying to ask me,

"What do you think about it?" I said, "Mate, it's bad

what has happened". They go on about it,

right up to me, and they are I was stressed, honestly,

at that time. There was a lot

of girls that did it. Then he had his hand

digging in my back. He was so abusive, called me

white bitch, told me And the more I tried to get out

of it, the more he strangled me and dug hard in my back,

to the point where I thought And then he eventually let go

and he like, threw me. It does not matter what race,

what creed, what background I think the police and the council

have failed in their duty of care to these young,

vulnerable adults, young girls. They will have everlasting and now,

in terms of what happened, with a lot of people,

it has made the Asian Not the same outlook in life,

where we are all seen as groomers, We've had lots of violence

and racially motivated attacks. I am very concerned

about my children. I want them to walk

in the streets feeling secure. I want them to walk in the streets

feeling proud of their heritage, of being part of the

Rotherham community. I don't believe that I can leave

them outside and just What is it like to sit down and have

to explain to your children It's a conversation you would have

with a 15 or 16-year-old, It is almost like you are taking

away their innocence. But you weigh up the pros and cons

and it is the lesser evil, They were doing stuff more often,

forcing me to have sex with them I did not think I was going

to live much longer. I thought they were

going to kill me. At times, Rotheram has felt

like a deeply divided town, Since September 2012,

there have been 15 protests in the town, many involving

far right groups. There's nothing to stop anybody

at any time going anywhere in the town centre

and having a protest. That does affect customers,

because if you can't walk up and down certain streets,

it directly affects your trade, It is tough when streets are closed

to have protests. It is the difference between staying

afloat and going under It is hard to remember

the time before not knowing, You want to know what happened

and what went wrong. And then you go through the kind

of acceptance and how you move forward, making sure that

everybody gets justice. Making sure that you know that it

never happens again, that things are in place so that

people feel comfortable to move forward and that everyone feels

comfortable to go to people I think the town has been

through it together. I think now, especially

with there being more support in place and more knowledge and more

acceptance, that kind... That we are now in a place that

people understand the issues a lot It was just like, what is the point

in trying to tell people if they are not going to listen,

not going to help me? I did not want to tell my family

because I did not want There were that many girls that

were abused and then it affects all of their family,

all of their friends, It must have been like

a massive amount of people I can't personally see how

you can get on with that. Obviously, to know that some police

knew about it and did not do anything, and how far up it went,

like, you can't trust I think it will get better,

when it dies down. Hopefully, people will get

on with their lives, you know, we will get

on with our lives. I will stay because I do believe

in the people of Rotherham and I believe in the communities of

Rotherham. I think together, we can rebuild

this town to the greatness I will not let negativity spoil

what is a great town. I don't believe we should be

defined by this at all. Police and social services

don't do anything. When you think about Rotherham now,

what words that spring to mind? If you want to share that film

you can find it on our programme Banks that your comments. Suzanne on

Facebook says, "Yes, it's the same in watch Dale. I now never say that

I'm from there". This tweet says, "To say the council and police

failed the children would suggest they tried to help unsuccessfully.

They did not even try". Roy says, "Enough of this Rotherham bashing,

leave them to move on your demonising them". Paul e-mails to

say, "As a rather residents of 65 years and at each of 40 years, I

ticket section to the board fell of my town. It's not full of awful

people, the schools are doing well and in the main it is very tolerant

of all cultures, perhaps too so. Please let us see a more evenhanded

view of my tan and look at the pretty places, not just the down and

out basis. Why not ask my generation, who have more knowledge

than the people you have chosen for buyers to comment?" That is from

Paul who describes himself as a decent robber resident. Keep those

coming in. After 10am, we'll talk

to the Rotherham campaigner who tells us she believes the true

number of girls abused We'll be speaking to the owner

of an elderly family cat which was unlawfully seized

and killed by the RSPCA. He will get the chance to tell them

what he thinks of what they did. And The Great British Bake off,

Gogglebox, First Dates and Strictly Come Dancing have

all been nominated in the TV Baftas, Now for the latest

headlines with Joanna. The governments in Westminster

and Cardiff say they are working to ensure the future

of the British steel industry, following the announcement last

night that the Indian firm Tata is considering selling

its British plants. Bosses rejected a proposal to cut

costs at one of Tata's biggest plants in the UK, at

Port Talbot in south Wales. It's understood that the UK

government is prepared to consider a management and workforce

buy-out of the plant. A man has been arrested after two

people were found stabbed to death Police say it followed

an altercation at a house in Two other people were injured

and are being treated in hospital. A police spokeswoman said

they believe the victims and the man arrested at the scene

were known to each other. The campaigner who exposed

widespread child sexual exploitation in Rotherham has told this programme

she believes the true number of victims could be far higher

than previously estimated. In 2014, a report found at least

1,400 children in Rotherham had suffered appalling sexual

exploitation, including multiple The crimes were committed mainly

by men of Pakistani heritage. Jayne Senior, a youth

worker from the town, has now written a book

about the fight to help the girls and bring their

attackers to justice. She believes the number of children

abused could be closer to 2,000. I think one of the things for me is,

using this recent court case as an example, a few of those

who were giving evidence, I had never even come across them,

so obviously these were girls I think there are a lot

of people out there who have Also, there are a lot of files

and paperwork that I believe there are enquiries

as to where they have gone. Every nursery in England should

have a qualified early-years teacher to help children develop key skills

like speech and language, according to the charity

Save The Children. It says that thousands of youngsters

struggle when they start school because toddlers' brains

are not stimulated enough Ministers say they're

working with the profession The historical drama Wolf Hall leads

the nominations for this The adaptation of Hilary Mantel's

novel set during the the reign of Henry VIII has been

nominated for four awards, including Mark Rylance,

who's up for best actor for his portrayal

of Thomas Cromwell. That's a summary of

the latest BBC News. It's a big day for

England's cricketers. Both the men and the women

are playing semifinals at the world The women get their match

against Australia underway We have just had news of the toss

and England have won it and will bowl first.

England finished second in their group after winning three

of their four games, while the Black Caps are the only

Jamie Vardy scored his second England goal in two games last night

at Wembley, but a disappointing performance saw Roy Hodgson's side

Remi Garde's dismal reign as Aston Villa manager is over

after less than five months in charge.

The club announced last night he'd left by mutual consent.

Villa are bottom of the Premier League.

David Moyes and Nigel Pearson have been linked with the job.

And Wigan Warriors' Josh Charnley will switch codes and join rugby

union side Sale Sharks at the end of the season.

Since joining in 2010, Charnley's helped Wigan win

a Super League Grand Final and two Challenge Cups.

We will keep you up-to-date with the cricket.

Let's bring you more on that news that the government is understood

to be ready to intervene to keep the loss-making Port Talbot

We can speak now to Barrie Evans, a steel worker who's worked at Tata

of the steelworkers' trade union Community.

Good morning. How do you react, you and your colleagues, to the fact

that the government is considering intervening somehow? Obviously,

first, we are disappointed that Tata did not accept the recovered the

plan. We thought it was an achievable plan but hopefully now

the government will step in in the short term and try to help is out

until we can find a reasonable investor. The kind of option the

government are considering our Ford Tata to give the management and

workforce by more time because it needs weeks if not months to work

out or potentially some direct state aid, a kind of temporary

nationalisation. Which would you prefer? We would benefit from

anything that was available to us right now. Obviously, we can't

speculate too much. We don't have details about the discussions that

took place in Mumbai and we have not seen the announcement. I would not

like this beggar late but any help would be appreciated until a

reasonable investor can be sought. -- would not like to speculate. In

the meantime, pretty unsettling for you and your co-workers still?

Absolutely, an anxious time. There's a lot of worry in the workplace. One

thing is the sure, my work colleagues will carry on as normal.

They are a committed workforce. They are highly skilled and we produced

the best steel in the world. We need an industrial strategy in the UK to

support the industry. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate your time

and we wish you all the best. Barrie Evans has worked at Tata Steel in

Port Talbot 20 years. Toddlers need much more stimulation

before school to take advantage of their explosive brain growth,

scientists and psychologists say. They're warning that pre-schoolers

could be set back decades if not enough is done at nurseries to make

the most of what they call Figures released today

by the charity Save the Children reveal that almost 130,000 children

a year are already behind in early language ability by their

first day of school. It wants every nursery in England

to employ a qualified So are they right, do our children

get enough stimulation at nurseries? If your child is at nursery,

tell us what do they do there. Do you want a teacher

in your child's nursery? With us now, Jane Lyons,

a mother of three, who's here with her

five-year-old son, Max. Karis McLarty is a mum of two,

who's here with her three-year-old Sam Pemble has two children,

four-year-old Luke Luke's here with us

this morning, too. Stephanie Dorling is a nursery

manager at The Old Station Nursery She already employs a qualified

teacher in her nursery. Melanie Pilcher is a policy

and standards manager from the Pre-school Learning

Alliance. Stephen MacIntosh, head of policy

at Save the Children, who is co-author of the report

calling for every nursery to have a quaified

early years teacher. Welcome to all of you. The children

have been really well behaved so far so let's see if it continues! Y

Diousse eight is necessary to have a qualified teacher in every nursery

in England? Reds some of Britain's top brain scientists have joined up

with our charity to call for national action to improve Jordan's

early learning. The scientific evidence shows that the early years

before a child arrives at school are some of the most active and rapid

period of brain develop and learning. To give every child the

best start and stop them falling behind before they have reached

school, we need much more advice and support for parents on the right

kind of learning activities divested later Jordan White Bay. Why is a

qualified teacher the best person to do that? What aren't nursery staff

doing themselves? Many nursery staff are doing a fantastic job in helping

children learn and develop but an earlier teacher can structure and

nursery's programme to get the right mix of learning through play...

Aren't nursery is already doing that question mark yes but the evidence

shows a great nursery manager with a qualification as an earlier teacher

can help train other staff, sports children who are falling behind. It

is a hallmark of excellence which ensures nurseries get children ready

for school. What do the other parents think? Sam, would you like a

qualified teacher in your child's Mazzarri? The experience that we

have, they have gone to three nurseries for various reasons but it

each one, they have had qualified practitioners. Qualified teachers?

They are NVQ, so not classified as teachers. That is different to what

Save The Children is saying. But the practitioners are qualified in early

childhood which is obviously what the foundation do. They have some

kind of curriculum that they follow which is a national standard. I

feel, I mean, we are perhaps lucky that they go to a very good nursery,

that they have qualified people. I think that perhaps having a

qualified teacher in our nursery would perhaps undervalue the people

who are already there. I feel that they are doing a really good job.

What about you? I think I have more questions, both about the structured

play that you mentioned, my child goes to school and spend a lot of

time running around and playing dead. What is a Forest school? Reds

it's all outside but she also goes to traditional nursery. A talented

early years professional, whatever level of qualification, will guide

any child to put any learning in context. All of life is about

learning something. A child might, for example, see that water flows

downwards but a qualified early years professional could help

explain the wider context of that, even to talking about hydropower or

something. Does it need a structure around it at such an early age?

Stephanie Inglis a qualified teacher at her nursery. Explain how it

works. It is a new appointment. The idea is that she will be very much

hand on with the tracking and analysis of learning so we can see

where the gaps are in learning and where we need to focus learning with

a proper structure of practice, really. What does structure mean

question mark it worries a few parents. They think they just need

to play and be loved and have lunch! Exactly what you said about the

extension of learning, water flows down but then they could talk about

hydropower or what happens with gravity. Why do they need to know

that at two rather than seven? You are stimulating their curiosity to

learn. Isn't that the key? They absorb so much, it is a cliche but

true that they are like a sponge, their brains can absorb so much.

That's right and the activities we are talking about things like

nursery rhymes, singing, accommodation, play, storytelling.

It all happens in nurseries at the moment. It's well-known that

different types games help children develop in different ways, some are

great for physical development and some great for language develop and

so it's about getting the mix. What do you reckon? The more highly

qualified people, the better. I think what is going on in nurseries

is amazing and the one Max goes to is fabulous but you need people who

are highly skilled with the big picture. Do you need a teacher? That

is the point of today's report. I think you do need a teacher

overseeing it because it needs structure. We're not saying it is

structured for the children but we are saying you need to have the big

picture of what you are trying to achieve with them. That would

suggest that the people who are employed in nurseries at the moment,

managers and staff, they all have goals that the children need to

retain. I have got the books from my own children's nursery years and

there's a picture of Joe, jumping off a war or balancing on a wall and

he achieved a goal. -- off a wall. The alliance welcomed the report

because it is telling us things that we know and understand and we have

known for many years now as we have seen an increase in the

professionalism of early years practitioners. Would you still like

a qualified teacher in there? It is something we should aspire to but

not to say that the qualified practitioners that are already

working in settings are not doing in excellent job because they

understand children's learning and develop and already and they know

how to provide opportunities and they know about the importance of an

environment where children feel safe and unable to learn. And that is

where the priority lies. I have practitioners in their 50s who would

not dream of going down the degree route to becoming early years

teacher but they have a wealth of knowledge and experience, they are

parents and grandmother is as well which brings a real nurturing

environment. One of the most important thing is that nursery

level is do have the nurturing, it is possibly not about the highest

level of qualification but they are therefore certain time and you've

got to give them that love and just because you are qualified teacher,

it does not mean that someone is not game to take the water flows down

and the hydropower being further. It is not that just because they are a

teacher, they will do. Do you have problems with outcomes in the early

years foundation stage? Do you want to change that to be equivalent to

the higher level qualification? Do you think that the current standard

is fine? This is not about testing children more or setting higher bars

for them to cross. Nursery assistants are often doing a

fantastic job and this is not about making every member of staff a

teacher but providing a great overview, to create the right

environment in the nursery. When you talk about education, it is

easy to say we were just wait the schools. But we need to close the

gap for children to fall behind, and they need to invest in nurseries and

early learning with advice for parents and boosting the quality of

nurseries. I am someone who is highly qualified. I took a conscious

decision when my children were young to work less hours, spend more time

at home, to stimulate them, go into the nursery to see what was going on

and talk to the people teaching them to get a feel. It is absolutely

critical. Probably the way you make the biggest difference to your

children's lines. The fear is that particularly underprivileged

children don't have this because they don't have the parent at home

who can necessarily do that and they are not at the best nursery. This is

where you can make the biggest difference here. Thank you so much

the coming on the programme. They were very, very well behaved.

Wolf Hall, the Great British Bake off, Gogglebox, First Dates,

Strictly Come Dancing have all been nominated in the TV Baftas announced

Idris Elba has been nominated for Best Actor

The nominations were announced by Dermot

O'Leary and Georgina Campbell who starred in Murder By Boyfriend.

The RSPCA behaved unlawfully and misled a pet owner and the media

after it seized and killed a family's elderly cat.

That's according to the findings of an independent internal report.

The case centred around inspectors removing a cat called

Claude from its owner, Richard Byrnes and his

The RSPCA and Mr Byrnes are both here to talk about this,

but first, you might remember our reporter Jim Reed went

to visit the Byrnes family last September.

Here's a short extract from his report.

16 plus years we had him and we miss him greatly.

Claude was, it has to be said, getting on a bit.

He lived with Richard and his family.

After a call from a neighbour an RSPCA inspector turned up

She seemed worried about Claude's weight and long, messy fur and said

An hour later she rang to say he had to be put down.

Richard found a support group on the Internet,

they told him to secretly tape the meeting at the vet.

I was advised to record it and I am glad I recorded it because the truth

came out, what length the RSPCA are prepared to go to get people

to sign the euthanasia authorisation.

That seems to be the key issue because once you've signed that

authorisation, that in effect, in their view, becomes your

admission that you have been mistreating the animal.

It triggered a two-year legal fight as the RSPCA tried to bring

a private prosecution against Richard and his wife

We aspire and claim to be, and we are, an nation of animal

lovers and no one would ever want to be associated

We loved Claude absolutely and never did anything anywhere near cruel

What kind of treatment did you get on the Internet and social media?

Oh, well, I was compared to a paedophile.

My daughter came across Facebook pages saying things that aren't

really repeatable about me and the family in general.

Richard Byrne is here as is Chris Wainwright

We have brought them together for the first time since the findings of

this internal report were revealed. Mr Wainwright, from the RSPCA, how

is it possible your organisation can remove somebody's pet without their

consent? It is not, and it went wrong in this instance and we have

learned hard lessons from this unfortunate episode. I want to say

again, we are incredibly sorry for what happened to him and his family.

I am a pet owner and a family myself, I would be distraught if

this happened to me. We are working hard to make sure this doesn't

happen again. Do people do make mistakes and this was sadly, a

litany of mistakes and we need to do better in the future. I take Mr

Wainwright's apology. I thank you for that. The problem is, the RSPCA

apologised in 2014, in November. But they have continued to defy us in

terms of this report. They are keeping secrets, they are not

publishing that. They fought tooth and nail over the past year to keep

the report from us, having promised us sight of it. I only got the

report last week. I find it hard to accept, given what has happened to

us, every piece of contact we have had with the RSPCA has caused us

grief in one way or the other. I cannot just accept fine words about

learning lessons because I have heard them all before. I have read

the report. It is uncomfortable reading. We did created for internal

purposes. We said, this has gone wrong horribly, this case and we

need to work out what happened, so it doesn't happen again in the

future. It was never intended for public consumption. Why not? It was

an internal working report. Why keep it from the family? We have given it

to him now. Finally. We have a fairness process. I am apologising,

because it has not been handled very well. I am embarrassed that the way

it was handled and we have to do better in the future. But the thing

I want to get across is the RSPCA exists to protect animals and

promote animal welfare. In this case, we got it horribly wrong.

Occasionally, that will happen. Day in, day out we rescue thousands and

thousands of animals. We do the best for them their owners. It is

horrible when it goes wrong, but we are committed as an organisation to

make sure it doesn't happen. You have described it as a litany of

mistakes. Just to let our audience know, your charity took the cat away

from the family without lawful authority and without consent. The

inspector told the vet the family had given permission for the to be

taken away. That wasn't true. The inspector did not pass on two

recommendations from the that, one was to have his first Dean matted.

The organisation lied. Is that accurate? Lied about telling the

media the vet had kept the cat overnight so the family could say a

proper good live. That is not true. I want to play a clip of what your

colleagues said on Radio 4 about that.

We took it to our vet and he said in his opinion it was suffering

and the kindest thing was to put it down.

He couldn't even let the kids say goodbye to him?

We did, actually, because we got a second opinion from Mr Byrnes' vet

who also agreed with our vet that the animal was suffering

and it was in the best interests of the cat to put it down.

We then agreed with the family not to put it down and it was kept

overnight because the Byrnes wanted to say goodbye to it.

The cat was then put down the next day.

The RSPCA has no power to order the euthanasia of any cat.

Firstly, no one wilfully lied in public. What was presented in that

argument wasn't factually and fully correct. But that person was caught

on the hop by this. Because the family had information that we

hadn't had from the Crown Prosecution Service and we responded

to events in the media. Sorry, I have got to put in. I listened to

that clip again yesterday. It was a 32nd clip and there were eight

factual inaccuracies. Only two explanations for that. One, the

spokesperson was