Browse content similar to 07/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello - it's 9 o'clock, I'm Victoria Derbyshire, | :00:10. | :00:10. | |
We will be speaking to relatives of service personnel who died in the | :00:11. | :00:27. | |
Iraq war. Speaking in the past hour, Tony Blair has continued to justify | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
his backing of the invasion. What is true, and I completely accept it, is | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
that we were giving the United States a very clear commit went that | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
we were a goal of the alongside them in dealing with this issue. How we | :00:44. | :00:44. | |
dealt with it is another matter. Thousands protest overnight | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
in Louisiana where a black man - Alton Sterling - was shot dead | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
by two white police officers. Here is his widow. The individuals | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
involved in his murder took away a man with children, who depended upon | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
their daddy on a daily basis. And overnight footage apparently | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
of another killing by police - still unverified, of another killing | :01:14. | :01:24. | |
by police - It is all quiet here in Lyon, but | :01:25. | :01:42. | |
Wales leave the tournament with their heads held high. They dared to | :01:43. | :01:46. | |
dream, and that philosophy took them all the way to the semifinals. | :01:47. | :01:57. | |
Hello - welcome to the programme - we're live until 11 this morning. | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
Do get in touch if you were watching the Wales match last night. | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
We'd love to hear from you on all the stories we're talking | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
about this morning - use the hashtag VictoriaLIVE, | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
and if you text, you will be charged at the standard network rate. | :02:13. | :02:15. | |
Tony Blair has been trying again to defend | :02:16. | :02:21. | |
his actions in the run-up to the Iraq war. | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
Sir John Chilcot's report yesterday delivered a scathing critique | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
of the planning of the war and its aftermath. | :02:27. | :02:28. | |
This morning, senior figures involved in the decision to take | :02:29. | :02:30. | |
Britain to war have responded by suggesting it underplayed | :02:31. | :02:33. | |
the role of the United States in pushing for military action. | :02:34. | :02:35. | |
And some families say they're considering legal action. | :02:36. | :02:37. | |
It was a conflict in which 179 British soldiers died. | :02:38. | :02:46. | |
Now, the enquiry into the Iraq war says they were sent | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
in ill-prepared and underequipped, and that Tony Blair, | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
the then Prime Minister, had taken the UK to war before | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Those are painful conclusions for the bereaved relatives to hear. | :02:55. | :03:03. | |
I've gone back to that time when I learnt that my brother had | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
been killed, and there was one terrorist in this world | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
He can't walk away from all this with that blood on his hands, | :03:11. | :03:20. | |
The Chilcot report found that Tony Blair had overstated the threat | :03:21. | :03:28. | |
posed by Saddam Hussein, that there was no imminent threat | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
and the intelligence case for war was not justified. | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Lawyers for the families of the service personnel | :03:36. | :03:37. | |
who died say they will now consider legal action. | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Tony Blair stood by his decision to go to war, | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
For all of this, I express more sorrow, regret | :03:49. | :03:57. | |
and apology then you may ever know or could believe. | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
The invasion in 2003 was led by the United States, | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
Senior figures involved in that decision suggested the Chilcot | :04:06. | :04:12. | |
report underplayed the role of the US in pushing | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
The Americans weren't genuine about it, but the Prime Minister | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
WAS genuine, because he thought there was a chance that | :04:21. | :04:24. | |
Saddam could be made to back down before | :04:25. | :04:25. | |
For a while, George Bush agreed with him. | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
But others behind George Bush didn't, and thought | :04:32. | :04:33. | |
During and after the conflict, more than 150,000 Iraqis were killed. | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
Just this weekend, at least 250 died in a suicide bomb attack in Baghdad, | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
a reminder that 13 years on, Iraq remains unstable and its people | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
the last hour, Mr Blair has conceded that it would have been better to | :04:55. | :05:09. | |
challenge the intelligence reports, described as flawed by the inquiry. | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
But he insisted there was not a doubt in most people's minds that | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
the Iraqi leader had the capability for weapons of mass destruction. He | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
said he tried to persuade the US to go down a different route. If they | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
go back to the United Nations and get a resolution there, that of | :05:27. | :05:31. | |
course postpones military action, which was my purpose, and gives us a | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
chance to pursue this peacefully. You will find elsewhere in the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
evidence that after the November resolution was passed, was a | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
conversation where President Bush accepted explicitly that if there | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
was compliance with 1441, there would not be military action. I | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
understand exactly what you're saying. You can take these phrases | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
and debate what they mean. But I can assure you, what I meant was very, | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
very clear, and was clear to the Americans have - I am right | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
alongside you in dealing with this, but it has to be done the right way. | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
It has to be done through the United Nations. | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
Now, a summary of the rest of the days news. | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
Conservative MPs vote again today on who they want to be the next | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
There are three candidates left in the race. | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
In the first vote the Home Secretary Theresa May finished | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
well ahead, followed by Andrea Leadsom and Michael Gove. | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
The final two with the most votes will then have to win | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
the support of 150,000 Conservative party members. | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
The result is due on September 9th, but some MPs want | :06:40. | :06:41. | |
Hundreds of people have taken part in a vigil in the American state | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
of Louisiana, where a black man was shot dead by two white police | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Video footage has been published online appearing to show 37-year- | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
old Alton Sterling being held down and shot, outside a convenience | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
This is the second graphic video to emerge of the shooting. | :07:00. | :07:10. | |
Alton Sterling is already on the ground as | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
There is swearing as the officers move away. | :07:14. | :07:23. | |
And they remove something, perhaps a weapon, from his pocket. | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
The 37-year-old has a string of offences, and police say | :07:32. | :07:33. | |
they were responding to reports that he | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
But his family and friends say he was | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
And this is another example of white police brutality on the black | :07:43. | :07:50. | |
He is not what the mass media is making him out to be. | :07:51. | :07:59. | |
It is an attempt to try and obscure the | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
image of a man who simply tried to earn a living. | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
The two officers involved have been placed on | :08:10. | :08:11. | |
Their actions will be the subject of a civil | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Protesters gathered in their thousands on the | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
They shouted their message, but the anger | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
Many have no hope that justice will be served. | :08:30. | :08:38. | |
We are not anti-police, we are anti-injustice. | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
That is what we have been getting here - injustice. | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
And as the protest went on, they danced out their | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
Their song was "Free the people", determined to put on a peaceful show | :08:51. | :09:00. | |
This is not just about one man, it's not just about one incident. | :09:01. | :09:08. | |
People here distrust the authorities and distrust the | :09:09. | :09:09. | |
They feel this is a battle for their civil rights, and one | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
There's been another shooting in America in which a black man has | :09:16. | :09:22. | |
been shot dead by police in confused circumstances. | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
The latest incident took place in the city of Minneapolis. | :09:25. | :09:33. | |
The latest incident took place in Minnesota. | :09:34. | :10:00. | |
MPs have expressed significant concerns about the government's | :10:01. | :10:02. | |
preferred candidate for the next head of the schools regulator, | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
The Education Select Committee has questioned | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
Amanda Spielman's passion for the job, and understanding | :10:09. | :10:10. | |
But the Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, says Ms Spielman remains | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
She currently chairperson of the exams regulator. Sir Michael Wilshaw | :10:17. | :10:27. | |
steps down as head of Ofsted at the end of the year. There will be a new | :10:28. | :10:41. | |
regulator for charity fundraisers, as of today. It is intended to help | :10:42. | :10:46. | |
restore public faith in the sect following complaints about how some | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
charitable organisations raise money. Michael Buchanan reports. | :10:51. | :11:00. | |
Following the death of 92-year-old Olive Cooke, there were concerns | :11:01. | :11:07. | |
about how some charities were targeting donors. A committee of MPs | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
found a number of charities were using unethical and exploit a dip | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
method is to raise money, including buying and selling the personal | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
details of donors. Today's creation of a new fundraising regulator is an | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
attempt to improve standards. The idea is that a separate body can be | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
a bit distance from both the fundraising community on one side, | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
and have the ability to raise and handle complaints on the other. We | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
will be independent and very open to receive complaints from the public. | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
We hope to have a good process in place to respond to those concerns, | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
and to do it well. Charity fundraising is hugely competitive. | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
Last year, ?9.6 billion was raised, slightly down on the previous year. | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
The average donation was ?14 a month. But all of that money spread | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
between 190,000 different groups. With public spending cuts, charities | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
are being asked to do more, with less. This new self-regulating body | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
is a chance for charities to show respect to their donors and rebuild | :12:18. | :12:19. | |
trust with the wider public. Marks and Spencer says it | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
experienced an eight point nine percent fall in clothing sales, | :12:24. | :12:25. | |
in the first quarter The retailer said the slump, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
in the three months to the start of July, | :12:30. | :12:34. | |
was worse than expected,. to the start of July, | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
was worse than expected. It suggested consumer confidence | :12:39. | :12:40. | |
weakened in the run up It suggested consumer confidence | :12:41. | :12:42. | |
weakened in the run-up Five newborn lion cubs have been | :12:43. | :12:58. | |
discovered in the mountains surrounding Los Angeles. This | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
footage is was captured last month by the Us National Park Service, who | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
had been tracking their mothers. They had been following them using | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
GPS from collars attached to the Cubs' mothers. | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
That's a summary of the latest BBC News - more at 9.30. | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
Do get in touch with us throughout the morning - | :13:19. | :13:23. | |
use the hashtag Victoria LIVE and if you text, you will be charged | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
And the epic Wales adventure comes to an end, such a shame! And hasn't | :13:27. | :13:45. | |
it been an adventure? I feel like we have travelled with them through | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
this tournament, as they have grown and surprised everybody. They did | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
not seem to surprise themselves, however. There was an inner | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
confidence about this team. If they were nervous, they did not really | :13:58. | :14:00. | |
show it, perhaps until the first half last night. They were looking | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
very, very strong at the back, but times I think you could tell that | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
the nerves were creeping in. And their dream was ended by a moment of | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
brilliance from Cristiani Ronaldo. Let's look back on it now with Drew | :14:16. | :14:17. | |
Savage. The Welsh strength and togetherness | :14:18. | :14:33. | |
and passion had carried them this far. But it was not quite enough to | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
take them to Paris. They need to understand that they have done their | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
country proud. The match had been billed as Cristiano Ronaldo versus | :14:45. | :14:46. | |
Gareth Bale. Shortly after the break, the Portuguese struck. A | :14:47. | :14:55. | |
greatly forward for Portugal, and just three minutes later, followed | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
by a sucker punch from a seemingly innocuous shot from Ronaldo. Quick | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
thinking from the former Manchester United man Nani, and Wales were in | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
trouble. Wayne Hennessey just about kept it down to two. Without Aaron | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Ramsey, Gareth Bale had to try and do it on his own. But a Welsh | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
comeback was a long shot, even beyond his substantial talents. | :15:27. | :15:28. | |
Portugal and Ronaldo are on their way to Paris. Wales' tournament of a | :15:29. | :15:40. | |
lifetime ends in Lyon. The great and good of Welsh sport have all had | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
their say on last night. Rugby union captain Sam Warburton treated - | :15:45. | :15:55. | |
Welcome cyclist Geraint Thomas and says... -- Welsh cyclist. | :15:56. | :16:11. | |
That is a mood that is echoed everywhere this morning. Of course, | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
it was a busy night of sport last night. Lots of people at home were | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
probably channel hopping between the football and Andy Murray's epic five | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
set match against Jo-Wilfried Tsonga at Wimbledon. Murray says he had to | :16:26. | :16:29. | |
summon up all of his energy to win that game and overcome Tsonga's | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
fightback in their quarterfinal. Murray took the final set off a | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
thrilling match 6-1 after Tsonga had battled back to level from two sets | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
down. The world number two plays Tomas Berdych in the semis tomorrow. | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
Obviously, it was a tough match. The end of that fourth set was really | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
tough, losing the game after breaking and coming back from 40-0 | :16:55. | :17:01. | |
in that game, to lose the set 6-4 was hard. But I tried to use all my | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
energy at the beginning of the fifth set to get myself up and try and get | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
the crowd pumped up. It had been a long day for them, some long | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
matches. Thankfully, I got the early break and managed to hang onto it. | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
Obviously, Andy Murray still has work to do. That Wimbledon final is | :17:18. | :17:24. | |
on Friday. Will he be there? But as far as the Welsh football team are | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
concerned, I am sure they will get quite a welcome when they eventually | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
get home. Victoria. I think they will! More from Sally | :17:33. | :17:34. | |
later. This time yesterday, | :17:35. | :17:37. | |
relatives of the 179 British personnel who died in the 2003 Iraq | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
war were waiting for the publication of Sir John Chilcot's long awaited | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
report into the conflict. Some of them had already been | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
allowed early access to the many volumes of text, | :17:47. | :17:48. | |
searching for the answers they'd They learnt what many of them had | :17:49. | :17:51. | |
long believed, that Tony Blair overstated the threat posed by Iraqi | :17:52. | :17:55. | |
dictator Saddam Hussein, sent ill-prepared troops | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
into battle and failed to put in place an adequate, | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
long-term strategy for the region. It was a damning verdict on the UK's | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
role in the 2003 invasion. When Sir John Chilcot delivered | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
an overview of his report into the lessons to be learned | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
from the Iraq war, he criticised almost every part | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
of the UK's involvement: The reasons it began, | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
the intelligence provided We have concluded that the UK chose | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
to join the invasion of Iraq before | :18:28. | :18:35. | |
the peaceful options for disarmament Military action at that time | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
was not a last resort. The judgments about the severity | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
of the threat posed by Iraq's | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
weapons of mass destruction, WMD, were presented with a certainty | :18:50. | :18:52. | |
that was not justified. It is now clear that policy on Iraq | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
was made on the basis of flawed The planning and preparations | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
for Iraq after Saddam Hussein Outside, protesters called | :19:02. | :19:07. | |
for former Prime Minister Tony Blair to face charges, while family | :19:08. | :19:19. | |
members of British service personnel that died in the war | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
expressed their own views. I've gone back to that time | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
when I learned that my brother had been killed, and there is one | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
terrorist in the world that the world needs to be aware of, | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
and his name is Tony Blair, By lunchtime, Prime Minister David | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
Cameron had warned that the report should not deter Parliament | :19:39. | :19:50. | |
from voting to invade countries in the future, | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
so long as there was Just because intervention | :19:54. | :19:55. | |
is difficult, it doesn't | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
mean there are not times Yes, Britain has and will continue | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
to learn the lessons of this report, against Daesh in Iraq and Syria | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
today, Britain must not and will not shrink from its role on the world | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
stage or fail to protect its people. emphasised his view that public | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
protests before the war The tragedy is that | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
while the governing class got it so horrifically wrong, many of our | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
people actually got it right. Many, on February 15th, 2003, | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
1.5 million, spanning | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
the entire political spectrum, and millions of others | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
across the world marched the biggest ever demonstration | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
in British history. Alastair Campbell, Tony Blair's | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
former director of communications, however, said he and the former | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
Prime Minister had not looked to dupe the public over the threat | :20:56. | :20:58. | |
posed by the former Iraqi I think actually, we can lay to rest | :20:59. | :21:01. | |
a lot of the allegations Sir John does recognise that | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
Tony Blair was trying to influence the Americans and did have some | :21:09. | :21:16. | |
success in that. admitted there was a lack of a | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
long-term strategy for the region, and said he was sorry for any | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
mistakes he had made. The mistakes on planning and | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
process, I absolutely acknowledge. I'm not passing responsibility | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
to someone else. I accept full responsibility | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
for those mistakes. I can look not just the families | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
of this country, but the nation in the eye and say I did not | :21:43. | :21:45. | |
mislead this country. I made a decision in good faith | :21:46. | :21:47. | |
on the information believe he should face | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
consequences for his actions, including the Scottish First | :21:51. | :21:57. | |
Minister Nicola Sturgeon. There has to be some | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
sense of accountability, that we can't simply have a case | :22:02. | :22:03. | |
of politicians who took these decisions on the flawed basis | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
that this report now outlines given that the consequences of | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
the Iraqi war are still being felt. Peter Brierley lost his son, | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
Lance Corporal Shaun Brierley, in March 2003, in the earliest days | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
of the Iraq war. Debbie's husband was killed in | :22:23. | :22:36. | |
attack hit by so-called friendly fire again in March 2000 three. | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
Iain Mcmenemy was a TA soldier and served in Iraq in 2003. | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
Peter, what do you think now that you have had a little time to absorb | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
some of Chilcot's report? When it came out, it came out almost exactly | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
as we needed it to be. We expected it to be covered up so that we would | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
have to look for things, but it is fairly plain that what Tony Blair | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
calls mistakes, we don't accept that they were mistakes. He had decided | :23:10. | :23:20. | |
to go to war in 2002. I don't accept his apology. Iain, how do you | :23:21. | :23:27. | |
reflect on some of what Sir John Chilcot said? I thought it was a | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
very hard-hitting report, perhaps more hard-hitting than a number of | :23:32. | :23:37. | |
people had expected. And that may be explained some of Tony Blair's | :23:38. | :23:39. | |
initial body language yesterday, when he started speaking, before he | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
slipped back into his old statesman-like ways. It was quite a | :23:45. | :23:51. | |
body blow to him. But I think Sir John Chilcot is a career civil | :23:52. | :23:58. | |
servant, a man I have a lot of respect for. And I think he uses | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
language suggesting that things should have been examined more | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
closely. He is not the kind of person to use the word lies or | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
anything as strong as that. But he is suggesting that things were not | :24:15. | :24:21. | |
done. He is saying that Tony Blair raps chose not to look deeper into | :24:22. | :24:24. | |
the intelligence, because he was building a case for a project he had | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
committed to nearly a year before. On the radio this morning, Tony | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
Blair has admitted that he should have challenged the intelligence a | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
lot more rigorously. Debbie, conclusions like "There was no | :24:39. | :24:42. | |
imminent threat from Saddam Hussein, military action was not a last | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
resort and the policy towards Iraq was based on flawed evidence" - how | :24:47. | :24:54. | |
you process that? At the moment, it is quite hard to process. It is | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
something I was speaking to our legal team about today. It is | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
something I have been saying for the last 30 years. Saying we had no | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
equipment and should not have gone in so fast and everything else. I | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
suppose it is quite a shock now to see it in black and white. I never | :25:16. | :25:23. | |
expected that. How do you feel you have been treated in your quest to | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
establish what Sir John Chilcot said you had been thinking all along? It | :25:30. | :25:35. | |
has been a hard battle over the last 13 years. The MoD haven't helped by | :25:36. | :25:44. | |
claiming things like national security against paperwork, making | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
the case hard. They have taken me to court to try and stop me taking | :25:50. | :25:55. | |
further action, and we have won them all. But it has been a hard battle. | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
If this report had come out at the beginning, it would have been a lot | :26:02. | :26:02. | |
easier for me. Let's have a listen to a little | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
of what Tony Blair said yesterday - A short time ago, my colleague | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
on BBC Radio 4, John Humphrys, asked Tony Blair why | :26:11. | :26:12. | |
it was apparently so difficult for him to say sorry to families | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
of those who had died Isn't there a sense perhaps | :26:16. | :26:17. | |
in which you, you're a deeply religious man, | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
we know that, it's impossible for you, in a sense, | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
to offer the people who have been affected by the war | :26:25. | :26:27. | |
the apology, the full apology they feel is needed, | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
because the responsibility for that is something that | :26:31. | :26:33. | |
you simply couldn't bear, and I wonder whether you pray | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
at all and whether you ask I think there may well be people | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
who believe that until I say I took the wrong decision, | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
that I am not properly sorry. But because I don't believe it | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
and because I don't think that this struggle was in vain in the end, | :26:55. | :27:03. | |
when I look at the Middle East today, forgive me for saying this, | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
but I'm there a lot of the time. I see the struggle going | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
on in the Middle East, which is all to do with, | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
can these coutries get to religiously tolerant | :27:17. | :27:18. | |
and pluralistic societies, can they get to rule-based | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
economies and democracy, and I am looking at it and thinking, | :27:22. | :27:24. | |
OK, what we did in removing Saddam had terrible consequences | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
that we did not foresee and I understand all the criticisms, | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
but when I look at it today, I still think we moved | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
with the grain of where the future is to be in these countries | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
and in this region. And in the end, when I look | :27:40. | :27:46. | |
at other battlefields or battlegrounds in the region, | :27:47. | :27:50. | |
are we better off in Syria I don't know, but I know that this | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
debate can't just be conducted in terms of whether my decision | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
in Iraq was taken on right or wrong grounds or in good | :28:00. | :28:06. | |
faith or bad faith. At some point, we have got to be | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
able to have what I would call a deep debate about how | :28:11. | :28:13. | |
we deal with this issue. Iain, how do you respond to Mr Blair | :28:14. | :28:29. | |
saying the struggle was not in vain? I accept that he believes that what | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
he did was right. He believes his decision-making process was right | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
because he wanted to remove Saddam Hussein. But he used intelligence in | :28:39. | :28:48. | |
a way that misled people. He sexed it up, was the phrase used at the | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
time. He took that information and twisted it in a way to build an | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
argument, and then told us, the soldiers who were asked to go out | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
and serve, he told his own Cabinet, it has now been found out that a lot | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
of it was discussions on sofas in Downing Street with key people, not | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
his whole Cabinet, and then he told parliament all this information that | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
he had. So whilst I understand that in his own mind, he probably | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
believes he was just in doing this, he cannot take such a grave decision | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
and put people's lives on the line, not just British lives, but Iraqi | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
lives as well and others throughout the world who have paid a price for | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
this conflict that has now expanded, when you are asking people to do | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
that, the least you owe them is some honesty. Peter, how do you react? | :29:43. | :29:50. | |
One of the things about the Chilcot Inquiry was the aftermath. If I | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
understand rightly, he has said when he goes to the Middle East now, it | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
looks better. It is 30 years too late if that is true. But last week, | :30:02. | :30:07. | |
there was a bomb, one of the biggest for a long time in Baghdad. So that | :30:08. | :30:16. | |
does not seem any better to me. As you said, everything he did, he did | :30:17. | :30:17. | |
on manipulation. Sir John Chilcot suggested that he | :30:18. | :30:29. | |
presented the evidence with a certainty which was not justified. | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
That's it. I am now convinced that he actually believes what he is | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
saying. This is not spin, it isn't trying to cover his back, I think he | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
believes what he's saying. Is delusional. Delusional, what do you | :30:45. | :30:51. | |
think of that description? I think he's definitely delusional. The | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
evidence is there in black and white. He did believe he was going | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
into Iraq for the right reasons, but like as he needs to sit down and | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
read the report and accept that he was wrong. Iraq and the world is not | :31:05. | :31:14. | |
a better place. The probably also needs to question that, because he | :31:15. | :31:16. | |
was warned about future terrorist activity, we can question whether | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
the world's status as it is now is a result of Tony Blair's actions. | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
Nobody will ever know that. But he was warned about future terrorist | :31:30. | :31:37. | |
activities. You do not know how the future would have panned out if he | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
had made different decisions at that time. Do you accept that one of the | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
things he said yesterday's was that he was pleading with people to put | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
themselves in his position, in his shoes, as he put it. He was | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
thinking, there could be a 9/11 in Britain. Do you accept that? Yes, | :31:56. | :32:04. | |
and we did have the London bombings. But he is the Prime Minister of the | :32:05. | :32:10. | |
country, he should be the person who listens to the Cabinet and makes | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
sure that everything is correct. You just can't go doing what he did, | :32:15. | :32:19. | |
sending soldiers into the war, and the implications of killing | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
thousands of people and destroying Iraq, just because he thought it was | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
right. He needs to get everything right. He should have got the | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
intelligence right and everything. And obviously, the report is really | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
damning against Tony Blair. Can I ask you, Debbie, what you want now, | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
finally? At the moment I think it is too soon to know what exactly I | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
want. I want some kind of accountability. I feel better in | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
myself now that it has come in our favour. And that the world knows | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
that what we have been saying for the last 13 years is actually true. | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
But I think the next steps is obviously maybe the families get | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
together, and I think we do need to be a united front, and maybe it will | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
be a legal battle. But what I do know is that this should never have | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
happened and it can never happen again. Peter, what do you want next, | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
if anything? I would back up what has just been said. We obviously | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
need to read the report properly. And then my hope would be that Tony | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
Blair is put in front of a judge. The Chilcot Inquiry was full and | :33:36. | :33:38. | |
frank and everything else, but it was not legal. Do you mean put in | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
front of a judge, charged with a criminal offence, like misconduct in | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
public office, which has been suggested by one former director of | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
the security is? Well, I think that is a possibility. -- former director | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
of public prosecutions. For 13 years, we have wanted to see Tony | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
Blair answering for what he did. And for me, that would be answering in a | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
court. I have actually done this for 13 years, and I'm hoping now that | :34:08. | :34:12. | |
Tony Blair will stand in court and I can go home and say to my wife, I | :34:13. | :34:18. | |
have done everything I can now. If he's not guilty, I will accept that. | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
I will not believe it but I will accept it. And that's it, we've done | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
what we needed to do. And as Debbie also said, we've got to make sure | :34:29. | :34:31. | |
that what happened can never, ever happen again. Iain, what do you want | :34:32. | :34:39. | |
now, if anything? I just hope that something positive comes from this. | :34:40. | :34:43. | |
That when decisions are made in the future to go to war, that it's | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
properly planned, that it's based on robust intelligence, that it can't | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
just be people sitting in rooms, some of them not elected, just | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
appointed people, just making decisions to send people off to a | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
foreign land to fight in a conflict, not even asking questions - did they | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
have the kit ready to do it? And then when things happen on the | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
ground, they are just failing to react. I heard yesterday about | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
something in the report suggesting that in terms of the armoured | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
vehicles, the Ministry of Defence didn't order the armoured vehicles | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
because they were waiting for a new model to arrive. Whether that was | :35:23. | :35:27. | |
just to save money, I don't know, but if that is the kind of | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
decision-making process, with people losing their lives... It is | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
unbelievable. Surely you have to have more robust processes put in | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
place. Better planning, better resources, and better | :35:42. | :35:43. | |
decision-making in the future, is what I hope for. Thank you all of | :35:44. | :35:49. | |
you very much. These are some of your messages. This one says JoCo I | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
cannot help but feel slightly sorry for Tony Blair. I cannot stand him, | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
but he's obviously an intelligent guy. You are raising your eyebrows | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
at that, Peter. He happened to be involved with consummate moron, in | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
the shape of George W Bush. This one says, I am appalled by the | :36:12. | :36:14. | |
vilification of Tony Blair. I believe him to be honest and sincere | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
politician who led this country at a time of crisis. This one says JoCo | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
it is the Iraqi people who are also the victims. British soldiers chose | :36:25. | :36:31. | |
to invade Iraq and also Afghanistan. This one says, you know he is white | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
when he says the issue is the lack of democracy in the Middle East. | :36:36. | :36:36. | |
Keep those coming in. So to come... Comedian Omid Djalili, | :36:37. | :36:54. | |
has made a film about the Stop The War protests, | :36:55. | :36:58. | |
and he will be in the studio. And it's the end of the road | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
for Wales at Euro 2016 - We'll speak to some of their fans | :37:03. | :37:05. | |
who hopped on board. The former Prime Minister Tony Blair | :37:06. | :37:15. | |
has again defended his decision Yesterday, the Chilcot report | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
delivered scathing criticism of the planning, conduct | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
and aftermath of the war. Senior figures involved | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
in the decision to take Britain to war in Iraq have responded | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
to the inquiry by suggesting it underplayed the role | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
of the United States in pushing Mr Blair told the BBC this morning | :37:40. | :37:41. | |
that he'd tried to persuade the US If they go back to | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
the United Nations and get a resolution there, that | :37:47. | :37:53. | |
of course postpones military action, which was my purpose, | :37:54. | :37:55. | |
and gives us a chance You will find elsewhere in | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
the evidence that after the November resolution was passed, | :38:00. | :38:06. | |
there was a conversation where President Bush accepted | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
explicitly that if there was compliance with 1441, | :38:10. | :38:11. | |
there would not be military action. So, I understand exactly | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
what you're saying. You can take these phrases | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
and debate what they mean. But I can assure you, | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
what I meant was very, very clear, and was clear | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
to the Americans - I am right alongside you in dealing with this, | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
but it has to be done the right way. It has to be done through | :38:29. | :38:31. | |
the United Nations. party leader and Prime Minister. | :38:32. | :38:39. | |
on who they want to be the next There are three candidates | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
left in the race. In the first vote the Home Secretary | :38:47. | :38:48. | |
Theresa May finished well ahead, followed by Andrea Leadsom | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
and Michael Gove. The final two with the most votes | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
will then have to win the support of 150,000 Conservative | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
party members. The result is due on September | :38:57. | :38:57. | |
9th, but some MPs want Thousands of people have taken part | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
in a vigil in the American state of Louisiana, where a black man | :39:01. | :39:11. | |
was shot dead by two white police Video footage has been published | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
online appearing to show 37-year- old Alton Sterling being held down | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
and shot, outside a convenience There's been another shooting | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
in America in which a black man has been shot dead by police | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
in confused circumstances. The latest incident took | :39:29. | :39:30. | |
place in Minnesota. The local Police Department said the | :39:31. | :39:43. | |
man was wounded in an officer involved shooting but that he died | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
later in hospital. Two children have died after the car they were | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
travelling in crashed into a loch in Argyll. Police Scotland have | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
appealed for further information. MPs have expressed significant | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
concerns about the government's preferred candidate for the next | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
head of the schools regulator, The Education Select | :40:08. | :40:09. | |
Committee has questioned Amanda Spielman's passion | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
for the job, and understanding But the Education Secretary, Nicky | :40:13. | :40:13. | |
Morgan, says Ms Spielman remains She is currently chairperson | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
of the exams regulator. Sir Michael Wilshaw steps down | :40:20. | :40:26. | |
as head of Ofsted at the That is a summary of the news. Time | :40:27. | :40:44. | |
for the sport, with's, in Lyon. Good morning, and here are your sports | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
headlines this morning. Wales fans have been praising their team's | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
performance here at the Euros. They were knocked out by Portugal last | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
night in the semifinal. Andy Murray says he had to summon up all of his | :41:00. | :41:06. | |
M -- all of his energy to overcome Jo-Wilfried Tsonga in the | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
quarterfinal. He will play Tomas Berdych in the semis tomorrow. And | :41:11. | :41:17. | |
in the Tour de France, the Belgian cyclist has taken a big lead. | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
Defending champion Chris Froome is more than five minutes behind. More | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
sport coming up in half an hour. We're just hours away | :41:27. | :41:36. | |
from finding out which two Tory MPs will battle it out | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
to become our next Prime Minister. Conservative politicians are voting | :41:39. | :41:41. | |
now between Theresa May, the Home Secretary, | :41:42. | :41:42. | |
the Justice Secretary Michael Gove and the Energy Minister Andrea | :41:43. | :41:44. | |
Leadsom. The two with the highest | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
number of votes will be Andrea Leadsom is launching her | :41:47. | :41:48. | |
campaign to be Prime Minister She is outlining her ideas for | :41:49. | :42:07. | |
Brexit. I truly believe we can be the greatest nation on earth. | :42:08. | :42:19. | |
As we show that the UK is once again open to the world and united in our | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
new destiny, so we will expand our horizons. Prosperity should be our | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
goal, not austerity. I want to spread prosperity to every | :42:31. | :42:45. | |
corner of our country. I want to help create more jobs, because we | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
need to hear and to heed those millions of our fellow citizens who | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
feel and fear that their country's leaders are not worrying about them | :42:57. | :42:58. | |
enough. Those people who think that chief | :42:59. | :43:16. | |
executives of some big businesses get telephone number salaries which | :43:17. | :43:18. | |
bear no relation to the performance of their companies. And I say to all | :43:19. | :43:28. | |
of those people - I am with you, and I want you to share in the great | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
future for this country. I want to see better training, | :43:32. | :43:45. | |
smarter working, yes, and higher pay for the many. I want to lead a | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
nation where anyone who aims high can achieve their dreams. My first | :43:52. | :44:05. | |
task is to show how great our potential is as a nation. Let's | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
banish the pessimists! Mark Kane, the Bank of England | :44:10. | :44:23. | |
governor, was exactly right last week when he said, and I quote, the | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
UK can handle change. It has one of the most flexible economies in the | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
world, and benefits from a deep reservoir of human capital, | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
world-class infrastructure and the rule of law. Its people are admired | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
the world over for their strength under adversity. The question is not | :44:43. | :44:50. | |
whether the UK will adjust, but rather how quickly and how well. He | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
goes onto say that a clear plan is needed. Is absolutely right. So | :44:56. | :45:01. | |
today, I want to speak to the markets as well as to the nation - | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
no-one needs to fear our decision to leave the EU. | :45:08. | :45:11. | |
We will do so carefully, reassuring our European friends and those | :45:12. | :45:33. | |
businesses who are worrying about change chief. Trade must be the top | :45:34. | :45:42. | |
priority. Continued, tariff free trade with the EU. Continued free | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
trade with those countries we have agreements with is a current member | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
of the EU. And vitally, seizing the opportunities to take up new | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
free-trade agreements with fast-growing economies around the | :45:57. | :46:02. | |
world. Andrea Leadsom, one of the Tory leadership candidates, setting | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
out her views on the British economy and the future, setting out her | :46:06. | :46:10. | |
views on a post-Brexit Britain as well. Norman Smith, our political | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
guru, is listening to that speech. He will be with us in the next | :46:15. | :46:17. | |
half-hour to fill us in on what else she says. By the end of today, there | :46:18. | :46:24. | |
will be just two Tory leadership and that is left. It is between Andrea | :46:25. | :46:30. | |
Leadsom, Michael Gove, the Justice Secretary and Theresa May, the Home | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
Secretary. Thank you for your comments on the Chilcot report. Phil | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
says, what gives Tony Blair the right to believe we can interfere in | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
the affairs of another country? How would we like it? On Twitter, the | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
reluctant guru says saying sorry is not enough. Time for Tony Blair to | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
be made accountable for his reckless decisions. Angelina Socci, how do we | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
punish America? They lead us into a war that was not necessary. Because | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
of them, we lost a hell of a lot of lives. How do we make Bush | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
accountable for the lives we lost? Keep those coming in. | :47:05. | :47:26. | |
In a moment, we will bring you unverified video. | :47:27. | :48:00. | |
He was reaching for his wallet and the officer shot him. He just shot | :48:01. | :48:15. | |
his arm of. I told him not to reach for it! Yellow Mesut Ozil and to get | :48:16. | :48:24. | |
his idea. This incident comes after widespread protests following the | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
death of this man. Alton Sterling was a father of five who was shot | :48:29. | :48:31. | |
dead by police officers in Baton Rouge in Louisiana. Police were | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
called after reports of a man threatening people. The images you | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
are about to see are distressing. If you have children in the room, you | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
will probably not want them to see this. The man in red is Mr Stirling. | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
The two white officers tackle him and hold him down before you hear | :48:50. | :48:57. | |
one shop, he's got a gun. He's got a gun! Mr Stirling died from multiple | :48:58. | :49:06. | |
gunshot wounds to his chest and back. The US justice department has | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
now launched an -- an investigation. His widow has been speaking to | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
reporters. They took away a man with children, | :49:13. | :49:25. | |
who depended upon their daddy on a daily basis. My son is not the | :49:26. | :49:34. | |
youngest, he is the oldest of his siblings. He is 15 years old. He had | :49:35. | :49:44. | |
to watch as this was put all over the outlets. | :49:45. | :50:09. | |
The US justice department has opened an investigation into his death. | :50:10. | :50:21. | |
Let's take a look at the figures. Last year, 1152 people were killed | :50:22. | :50:23. | |
by the police in the United States. 30% - or three in 10 - | :50:24. | :50:37. | |
of those killed were black. That's a much higher proportion | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
of black people than in the US And in 97% of those cases last year, | :50:41. | :50:43. | |
no police officer has been charged. So what is known about | :50:44. | :50:48. | |
Baton Rouge in Louisiana? Our reporter Benjamin Zand has | :50:49. | :50:50. | |
visited the city's most When I first got to Baton Rouge, | :50:51. | :51:13. | |
people were telling me this was the worst neighbourhood in town. It has | :51:14. | :51:22. | |
some of the highest homicide rates and HIV rates not only here but in | :51:23. | :51:25. | |
the country as a whole. My neighbour actually got shot last year. But | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
everywhere has good people, and I want to ask some of the people who | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
live here, how would they change America if they had the chance and | :51:34. | :51:40. | |
in the famous words of a gentleman who got beat in California, I want | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
to know why we can't get along. Everybody hates one another. I don't | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
know why, I can't understand. We say we are the United States of America, | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
but we are actually not united. You can look at the Democrats and | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
Republicans, they are not united at all. Put back into the schools, the | :51:58. | :52:01. | |
courthouse. I do an application | :52:02. | :52:13. | |
five times and get no response, even though you called | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
to check on the application. I have bills to pay, | :52:20. | :52:21. | |
and you have money and I can't be where you | :52:22. | :52:24. | |
and your family will be. All I am thinking about is, | :52:25. | :52:27. | |
my sister's hungry, all my bills | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
need to be paid. Here's another one | :52:32. | :52:33. | |
from when I got shot. It is violent - these | :52:34. | :52:38. | |
were two separate incidents. I say racism, because I think racism | :52:39. | :52:48. | |
is something they don't People don't want | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
to open up about it. Everyone has to be able to rise | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
to an income threshold that allows You just have to help people to tap | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
into what those are. You need resources to go not only | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
towards improving the education system, but it also needs | :53:07. | :53:09. | |
to go into improving If you go to school around here, | :53:10. | :53:11. | |
and live around here, As you know, the Wales adventure at | :53:12. | :53:36. | |
Euro 2016 is over after they were beaten by Portugal in the semifinal. | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
We can speak to some fans who were at the game and some who watched it | :53:41. | :53:50. | |
back home. Welcome, all of you. " How are you feeling this morning? | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
Very tired, I have just got back from Lyon. So you were there! I | :53:57. | :54:05. | |
landed at about four o'clock this morning and I had to come to work at | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
about eight o'clock. So, quite tired! Work are all right about you | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
talking to us? Fantastic, yes. They have given me a couple of minutes! . | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
What did you think of Wales' performance last night? | :54:21. | :54:26. | |
It has been amazing. It was just outstanding. I have heard some Wales | :54:27. | :54:39. | |
fans saying they were not sure the team really turned up last night, | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
particularly in the second half. It was difficult. We were missing some | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
key players. But to be in the semifinals was amazing, and the boys | :54:50. | :54:57. | |
did proud. What are your reflections on this amazing adventure? My heart | :54:58. | :55:05. | |
was beating. It is taking a bit of time to sink in. It has been an | :55:06. | :55:17. | |
incredible experience. The team has done the whole country | :55:18. | :55:27. | |
proud. Not only with the way they have played, but the way they have | :55:28. | :55:30. | |
acquitted themselves off the field as well. They have shown the rest of | :55:31. | :55:37. | |
Europe what Wales is about. I wonder if you are looking ahead with relish | :55:38. | :55:41. | |
to the qualifying for the next World Cup, which starts in two months' | :55:42. | :55:48. | |
time? Exactly. This is not the end of a journey, it is the start. We | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
have another chapter to come. Now I definitely look forward to the | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
quarterfinals. We can look forward with confidence. It's another | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
challenge for a team, getting to a World Cup rather than a European | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
Championship. Rob, what are you thinking this morning? Well, I was | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
toasting the victory with champagne, but I am now here with a cup of tea. | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
I don't think we can feel down. I think what has happened over the | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
last month will get better as we look back on it. There was a great | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
phrase used yesterday, saying, this must not be a legacy, this must be a | :56:30. | :56:36. | |
catalyst. We are now down to earth with a bump. We play Montenegro in | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
the next World Cup qualifier. But they have just represented a whole | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
nation. They have sold Wales across the world. People have fallen in | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
love with Wales. Cymru is cool again. Everyone knows where it is. | :56:50. | :56:56. | |
Last March, I was at the Millennium Stadium with my kids and it was a | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
great crowd moment. I will never forget it. I have my heroes. I was | :57:02. | :57:13. | |
saying to my eight-year-old boy, there were the Gareth Bale of his | :57:14. | :57:19. | |
era. They have brought dance of the past back into real context. That is | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
a fantastic way to describe it. I take my hat off to you for the way | :57:27. | :57:33. | |
you have articulated that. They have also shown to smaller nations like | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
England what you can do at a football tournament. This transcends | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
sport. It means a nation can dare to dream on any level. It is about good | :57:44. | :57:49. | |
preparation. I was at the high school where Gareth Bale went to | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
school the other day. There were 12 or 15 different news organisations | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
or wanting to learn about Gareth. But as his old headmaster and PE | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
teacher said, we are proud of every pupil here, and Gareth is a role | :58:06. | :58:09. | |
model to everyone who is here now and every pupil in the future. You | :58:10. | :58:13. | |
can strive to be the best you can be. That is what I can say to my | :58:14. | :58:22. | |
kids with pride now. From the First Minister Carwyn Jones down to | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
everyone in the country, we take this moment and wrap it up in | :58:25. | :58:28. | |
ourselves and stride forward with more confidence as a people and | :58:29. | :58:34. | |
nation. Quick word about Gareth Bale? Oh, we have just lost him. | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
Karen, a quick word about Gareth Bale. How would you describe the way | :58:40. | :58:44. | |
he has been through this tournament? He has been one of the catalysts of | :58:45. | :58:50. | |
motivation for the boys. That has brought the team together stronger. | :58:51. | :58:58. | |
It is just an amazing group of guys. Thank you, all of you. | :58:59. | :59:10. | |
Time for the weather. There is nothing simple about the weather at | :59:11. | :59:18. | |
the moment, all pretty complicated. It is sunny for some and cloudy for | :59:19. | :59:25. | |
others. It is going to be a bit dull and damp across most of Wales for | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
the rest of today, about bricks of drizzle here and there. Some | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
sunshine in the south-east. There should be plenty of play at | :59:35. | :59:40. | |
Wimbledon today. Sunny spells in Northern Ireland. Lots of showers in | :59:41. | :59:44. | |
the Highlands and Western Isles. If you have the sunshine, temperatures | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
in the high teens and low 20s. Where it is great, just 16 or 17. -- where | :59:50. | :00:00. | |
it is grey. It is going to be a one night again, temperatures remaining | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
in the team's -- a warm night. Friday is also completed. Heading up | :00:07. | :00:18. | |
into the North Sea, the weather front will provide a few showers | :00:19. | :00:24. | |
across the far south. As for the weekend, it gets very competitive. | :00:25. | :00:25. | |
More I'm Victoria Derbyshire - | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
welcome to the programme 24 hours on from | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
the Chilcot's damning report, Tony Blair has again | :00:37. | :00:50. | |
defended his decision to lead Britain into the Iraq War, | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
while relatives of soldiers and those who served in action have | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
given us their verdicts. What is true, and I | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
completely accept it, is that we were giving | :01:01. | :01:02. | |
the United States a very clear commit went that we were a goal | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
of the alongside them How we dealt with it | :01:06. | :01:07. | |
is another matter. I am now convinced that he actually | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
believes what he is saying. This isn't a spin, or trying to cover his | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
back, he actually believes what he is saying. He is delusional. I think | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
when he is suggesting these sorts of things, that enough was not done, he | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
is saying that Tony Blair perhaps chose not to look the intelligence, | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
because he was building a case for a project that he had committed to the | :01:37. | :01:37. | |
year before. We'll take a look at what lessons | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
can be learnt for future governments A shortage of nurses | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
in England and Wales - how will the NHS cope, | :01:46. | :01:48. | |
when the existing problem will be compounded with one in three nurses | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
due for retirement over the next decade, | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
say researchers? And disappointed but proud - | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
Wales fans reflect on their team's semifinal defeat to Cristiano | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Ronaldo's Portugal at Euro 2016 - in their most successful | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
ever football tournament. Yes, Wales can leave this tournament | :02:08. | :02:20. | |
with their heads held high - they will go home tomorrow to hero's | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
welcome, and parties in the streets across Wales. | :02:27. | :02:33. | |
Any more cliches welcome on this programme! | :02:34. | :02:38. | |
A 32-year-old taxi driver from Bradford in West Yorkshire has | :02:39. | :02:50. | |
pleaded guilty at the High Court in Glasgow to the murder of shopkeeper | :02:51. | :02:57. | |
Hassan Shah in March this year. The 40-year-old was killed just hours | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
after he posted an Easter message on Facebook to his customers, which | :03:00. | :03:07. | |
wed, happy Easter, especially to my beloved Christian nation. | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
The former Prime Minister Tony Blair has again sought to defend his | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
decision to lead Britain into the Iraq War. | :03:16. | :03:17. | |
Yesterday, the Chilcot report was profoundly critical | :03:18. | :03:19. | |
of the war's planning, conduct and aftermath. | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
Senior figures involved have responded by suggesting the inquiry | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
underplayed the role of the US, in pushing for military | :03:26. | :03:27. | |
Mr Blair told the BBC this morning that he'd tried to persuade the US | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
If they go back to the United Nations and | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
get a resolution there, that of course postpones military action, | :03:38. | :03:39. | |
which was my purpose, and gives us a chance | :03:40. | :03:41. | |
You will find elsewhere in the evidence that after the November | :03:42. | :03:48. | |
resolution was passed, there was a conversation | :03:49. | :03:51. | |
where President Bush accepted explicitly that if there | :03:52. | :03:53. | |
was compliance with 1441, there would not be military action. | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
So, I understand exactly what you're saying. | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
You can take these phrases and debate what they mean. | :04:01. | :04:03. | |
But I can assure you, what I meant was very, | :04:04. | :04:05. | |
very clear, and was clear to the Americans - I am right | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
alongside you in dealing with this, but it has to be done the right way. | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
It has to be done through the United Nations. | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
Debi Allbutt, whose husband was killed in Iraq in March | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
2003, said Mr Blair had failed the country. | :04:18. | :04:26. | |
He is the Prime Minister of the country, he should be the person who | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
listens to the Cabinet and makes sure that everything is correct. | :04:32. | :04:40. | |
You just can't go doing what he did, sending | :04:41. | :04:42. | |
the implications of killing thousands of people and destroying | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
Iraq, just because he thought it was right. | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
He should have got the intelligence right and everything. | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
And obviously, the report is really damning against Tony Blair. | :04:54. | :04:55. | |
Conservative MPs vote again today on who they want to be the next | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
There are three candidates left in the race. | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
In the first vote the Home Secretary Theresa May finished | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
well ahead, followed by Andrea Leadsom and Michael Gove. | :05:07. | :05:08. | |
The final two with the most votes will then have to win | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
the support of 150,000 Conservative party members. | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
The result is due on September 9th, but some MPs want | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
Well, Andrea Leadsom has been setting out her views | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
on the post-Brexit economy, she said what the country needs | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
And I say to all of those people - I am with you, and | :05:26. | :05:41. | |
I want you to share in the great future for this country. | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
I want to see better training, smarter working, yes, and higher pay | :05:45. | :05:48. | |
I want to lead a nation where anyone who aims high | :05:49. | :05:57. | |
Thousands of people have taken part in a vigil outside a shop | :05:58. | :06:11. | |
Two children, aged two and three, have died after the car | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
they were travelling in crashed into a loch | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
A 36-year-old woman was taken to hospital as a precaution | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
MPs have expressed significant concerns about the government's | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
preferred candidate for the next head of the schools regulator, | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
The Education Select Committee has questioned | :06:31. | :06:32. | |
Amanda Spielman's passion for the job, and understanding | :06:33. | :06:34. | |
But the Education Secretary, Nicky Morgan, says Ms Spielman remains | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
She is currently chairperson of the exams regulator, Ofqual. | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
Sir Michael Wilshaw steps down as head of Ofsted at the | :06:46. | :06:47. | |
Time for the sport, with Sally, in Lyon. | :06:48. | :07:06. | |
We have had emotional roller-coaster, heads held high, | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
epic journey, any more cliches we want to throw in about Wales? I have | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
got many, many more to come! The streets will be lined with fans | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
tomorrow I expect for a homecoming beyond their wildest dreams! Shall I | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
stop or just tell you what actually happened?! Please! It has been a | :07:24. | :07:31. | |
fantastic few weeks, just to follow Wales, even if you are not Wales | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
fan, if you're not Welsh, to enjoy the process of them becoming this | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
fantastic team, property unit that we have seen. When you look back | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
through their tournament, you would have to say that that game against | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
Belgium was their final. It was an amazing performance from that team, | :07:50. | :07:52. | |
even Chris Coleman has said that. Last night the Portugal match felt | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
like it was perhaps just one match to fall, as Drew Savage now reports. | :07:58. | :08:08. | |
The Welsh strength and togetherness and passion had carried them this | :08:09. | :08:10. | |
But it was not quite enough to take them to Paris. | :08:11. | :08:20. | |
The players are gutted, but that will subside. | :08:21. | :08:22. | |
They need to understand that they have done their | :08:23. | :08:24. | |
The match had been billed as Cristiano Ronaldo versus | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
Shortly after the break, the Portuguese struck. | :08:28. | :08:39. | |
A great leap forward for Portugal, and just three minutes later, | :08:40. | :08:42. | |
followed by a sucker punch from a seemingly innocuous | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
Quick thinking from the former Manchester United man Nani, | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
Wayne Hennessey just about kept it down to two. | :08:49. | :08:55. | |
Without Aaron Ramsey, Gareth Bale had to try | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
But a Welsh comeback was a long shot, even beyond his | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
Portugal and Ronaldo are on their way to Paris. | :09:04. | :09:09. | |
Wales' tournament of a lifetime ends in Lyon. | :09:10. | :09:21. | |
There are lots of very proud Welsh sports men and women this morning. | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
The rugby union captain Sam Warburton has treated... The Welsh | :09:28. | :09:44. | |
cyclist Geraint Thomas said... And Rob Brydon said... But it was not | :09:45. | :09:57. | |
just the football last night. I think lots of people at home were | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
probably watching the football on one side and an epic Andy Murray | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
match on the other, against Jo-Wilfried Tsonga. Murray said he | :10:06. | :10:08. | |
had to summon up all of his energy to overcome Tsonga in the | :10:09. | :10:16. | |
quarterfinal. Jo-Wilfried Tsonga had battled back from two sets down. | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
Murray will play Berdych in the semis tomorrow. Obviously, it was a | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
tough match. The end of the fourth set was really tough, from 0-40, in | :10:29. | :10:36. | |
that game, to lose that set 6-4, was hard. I just tried to use all of my | :10:37. | :10:43. | |
energy at the beginning of the fifth set to get myself up, try and get | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
the crowd pumped up. It had been a long day for them, some long | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
matches. Thankfully I got the early break in that fifth set. Like I | :10:52. | :10:57. | |
said, it was quiet and sleepy here in Lyon this morning. It is quarter | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
past 11 here, and I can tell you there are signs of life. I am | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
starting to see Wales fans emerging. Back to you! We have had so many | :11:07. | :11:15. | |
messages from you about the Chilcot Report. I will read a couple more | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
now. This one says - Tony Blair cannot be blamed for everything. | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
Disaster in Iraq would have happened without the UK. It was an | :11:25. | :11:29. | |
American-led war, with 40 other countries. This one says - who in | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
their right mind would send troops into battle without the right | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
vehicles, clothing or books? This one says - I think Tony Blair should | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
be put in front of a judge. I feel sorry for all of those who have not | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
had justice for the love ones who died. This one says - I was in Iraq | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
in 2003, and I'm slightly disheartened by the outcome of | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
Chilcot. We did a lot of great things out there and changed a lot | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
of lives. This one says - you did the right thing, Tony Blair, don't | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
allow people to shout you down. This one says - please stop vilifying | :12:03. | :12:08. | |
Tony Blair. He made a decision waste on the available information | :12:09. | :12:09. | |
although I personally never voted for him. | :12:10. | :12:29. | |
Mr Blair said his decision to go to war was the most difficult of his | :12:30. | :12:35. | |
time as Prime Minister, but says he did so in good faith, sentiments | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
which he has reiterated on the radio this morning. So what are the | :12:40. | :12:42. | |
lessons for future governments when considering military action? | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
Let's talk now to Lord West, who was head of the UK Navy | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
during the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Ben Bradshaw, | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
who was the Deputy Leader of the House Of Commons | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
at the time of Tony Blair taking the country to war, | :12:58. | :12:59. | |
Lord Butler who in 2004 chaired the review of intelligence | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
on weapons of mass destruction, and Dr Lina Khatib, | :13:03. | :13:04. | |
who is head of the Middle East and North Africa Programme | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
at Chatham House, an organisation whose mission is "to help build | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
a sustainably secure, prosperous and just world". | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
I would like to ask you first of all how you react to the report, Lord | :13:13. | :13:21. | |
West? I think you should be congratulated, because it is a good | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
and thorough report. I don't know if I will ever read 2.6 million words. | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
Just reading the summary is quite a task, which I have just finish. I | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
think it is good. I was on Russian television yesterday, and I said | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
thank goodness I was in a country where people were willing to release | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
documents and produce that kind of report. I think overall I agree with | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
most of the things in their, although I do feel, in fact I know, | :13:49. | :13:54. | |
I was told in July 2002, that we would be invading Iraq in the New | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
Year of 2003. And I do think, because there had been agreement | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
about regime change, that Tony Blair got himself logged in Britain there | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
became an almost inevitability. When I was told this was going to | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
happened, I was commander of the fleet, and I told the fleet to be | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
ready for war in the New Year. I sailed my vessels, which take | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
longer, to get out there. I said they were exercising, and | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
effectively they were going out there for war. Why the time the war | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
came, I was First Sea Lord, and I do feel there was a certain casting | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
around, let's find an absolute excuse for this. I was quite | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
surprised by the WMD thing, having been chief of intelligence for | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
several years, and having been intimately involved in what the | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
Iraqis had and the whole UN inspection regime, Desert Fox, when | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
we fired missiles at him because he would not comply. That surprised me, | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
and I felt it was casting around for a reason to say, let's do it. What | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
do you think of the report and what you have been able to absorb from | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
it? I think the report is not surprising at all. We have been | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
living with the consequences of the 2003 invasion for the last 13 years. | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
The report told us what we already know, which is that this war was | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
ill-advised, ill planned and ill executed. Ben Bradshaw? I took some | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
comfort from the report that it did not imply bad faith on behalf of | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
those who voted for the removal of Saddam Hussein. It made quite clear | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
there was no fabrication or misuse of intelligence, that the Cabinet | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
was not deceived, that there was no actual prior secret deal to go to | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
war. There are very important lessons to be learned I think about | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
the post-conflict planning in particular. I would be really | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
worried if the lesson we all draw from this is that we should never | :15:49. | :15:53. | |
intervene, if you look at what is happening in Syria now. There are | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
also terrible costs of not intervening. Lord Butler, your | :15:57. | :15:58. | |
reaction? I was pleased to hear one of the | :15:59. | :16:08. | |
relatives say yesterday that the report lived up to their | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
expectations. It took a long time, but it is | :16:13. | :16:15. | |
And I agree with Lord West. What other country would allow a complete | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
no holds barred examination of all the decision of a war? Would France, | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
Russia or America do it? I don't believe so. That is something the UK | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
can be proud of. Then Bradshaw, aren't you horrified that we now | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
know there was no imminent threat? The evidence had been visited to you | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
with a certainty that was not justified. You would not have voted | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
for it otherwise? I am not sure I wouldn't have. I am not one of those | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
people who is going to use the benefit of hindsight. That is a | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
copout. The evidence from our intelligence services and those | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
across the developed world said the same. And we also knew that Saddam | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
had used these weapons in the past, killing thousands of his own people, | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
waging war on Kuwait and Iran in the recent past, and had played cat and | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
mouse with the weapons inspectors for years. But all peaceful options | :17:17. | :17:23. | |
had not been explored. I don't agree with that. If you look at what was | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
going on at that time and the attempt by Tony Blair to persuade | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
the Americans to go back to the United Nations, what we know that | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
Rumsfeld and Cheney in the US administration had no interest in | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
going to them... And when weapons inspectors were begging for more | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
time? They were, but since the last report from the Iraq survey group, | :17:47. | :17:49. | |
it shows categorically that if Saddam Hussein had been left in | :17:50. | :17:52. | |
power, he would have redeveloped his programmes. I think that is true. We | :17:53. | :17:58. | |
knew Saddam Hussein wanted to develop his nuclear weapons, but he | :17:59. | :18:04. | |
didn't have any. It is generally a bad idea to invade people. You do it | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
if anyone has really done something appalling to you. Saddam had not | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
been attacking British people or the British nation. It is part of the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
reason I felt with Assad that one has to be careful with how much we | :18:19. | :18:25. | |
hit him, for the same reason. We are there if people attack our people | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
globally. Yes, there is a stability aspect, but that is it. I felt it | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
was unfortunate that we were moving so fast into war. And weren't you | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
shocked when the Chilcot report suggested that a month after 9/11, | :18:42. | :18:44. | |
Mr Blair was saying to America, we need to get rid of Saddam? What I | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
found difficult was there was a lot of talk about Saddam dealing with | :18:51. | :18:53. | |
terrorists. He did not help Al-Qaeda. He was not linked to these | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
terrorist groups. They are wrong in that. He was a dangerous man. He | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
invaded Kuwait and was shooting at our aircraft who were flying in the | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
no-fly zone every day he killed matters of his own people. But that | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
is not the same thing. I would add that we have to look at the context | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
of Iraq and Syria today, which are different from in 2003. I want to | :19:21. | :19:28. | |
say that invasion, when it is not demanded by the people, is wrong. We | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
should not compare the situation of Assad today in Syria with this | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
situation of Saddam Hussein in 2003. Did you accept anything of what Mr | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
Blair suggested they, put yourself in my shoes? It might be wrong, but | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
you have to make a judgment. Yes, but I know that when it comes to the | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
2003 Iraq invasion, the intelligence from the United States was not | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
really contest it in the UK. And within the United States government, | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
the different intelligence bureau had different takes on the | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
intelligence about weapons of mass destruction. Not all of the | :20:10. | :20:11. | |
intelligence bureau is within the US administration agreed that the | :20:12. | :20:17. | |
threat was there. There was internal dissent going on, but this was | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
overruled by the policymakers and the evidence was percentage to our | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
Prime Minister. So of course he had to make a decision, but he could | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
have done more. Politicians need to understand that they set a momentum | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
going. Once you start the whole thing going, it is extremely | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
difficult. An unstoppable train. It is very difficult. By March, it | :20:42. | :20:48. | |
would have been quite something to have stopped that. I want to talk | :20:49. | :20:56. | |
about lessons for governments in the future. Lord Butler, what do you | :20:57. | :21:00. | |
draw from what you have absorbed from Chilcot regarding future | :21:01. | :21:02. | |
governments and their decisions on military intervention? In my review, | :21:03. | :21:08. | |
I criticised Tony Blair on two grounds. One was the way in which | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
intelligence was used as a method of political persuasion on which I | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
don't think it should be. The other was the fact that he didn't use the | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
Cabinet and all the resources of government properly. These decisions | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
do need to be challenged by colleagues and experts who have | :21:24. | :21:31. | |
greater experience and expertise. Tony Blair kept the decision in such | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
a small group that he didn't allow those decisions to be open to proper | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
challenge. Why did he do that, Ben Bradshaw? Well, he denied that. He | :21:41. | :21:47. | |
said the intelligence was shared. I am talking about the decision to go | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
to war. The decision to go to war was taken by Parliament. If you look | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
back parliamentary debate we had, a majority of MPs supported the | :21:59. | :22:04. | |
decision. The 45 minute thing was not even mentioned, it was about | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
compliance with the United Nations resolutions. People forget that | :22:08. | :22:17. | |
Saddam Hussein... The 45 minute was mentioned. It related to the time it | :22:18. | :22:22. | |
took to fire a gas shell. It gave the impression something could hit | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
Britain. If you read the whole debate again, you will find that the | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
majority of the argument for taking the action was Saddam's repeated | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
failure for many years not to comply with mandatory United Nations | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
resolution. No other leader in the world had been in such | :22:40. | :22:47. | |
noncompliance. On the legal basis, it is interesting. I took separately | :22:48. | :22:57. | |
good advice, because I want to be sure muscle does would not be caught | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
eye. And the advice I had supported what the Attorney General said. What | :23:04. | :23:09. | |
impact will this report have on future decisions for military | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
intervention? We have already seen the impact of the Iraq war on the | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
Syria vote in the House of Commons. Will this report affect foreign | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
policy in Britain in the future? I doubt it, because ultimately, we | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
have seen very clearly that this invasion that happened in 2003, just | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
like the lack of intervention in Syria today, is ultimately a US | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
decision. I think the report is too focused on the UK in a way that | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
makes it look like we had more say in this. In the end, the US calls | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
the shots. But Britain doesn't have to hit itself to a US decision. So I | :23:47. | :23:55. | |
wonder if that will affect future British Prime Minister's Questions I | :23:56. | :23:58. | |
doubt that we have the spine. I disagree. This is already having an | :23:59. | :24:05. | |
impact. And the fact that we are closely allied to the US is good for | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
this country. But my goodness me, we have to stand up for them. We did | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
during the Vietnam War and would not get involved. I have a feeling that | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
this time, we shackled ourselves to them and I have the feeling that we | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
had said, whatever happens, we are with you for this invasion. We must | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
not get ourselves in that position. But generally, we should be joined | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
at the hip with American, but we have freedom of action. I agree. I | :24:31. | :24:37. | |
think this has already had an effect, and you saw it in the debate | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
around Syria. Clearly, the post-Iraq psychology of Britain is now to be | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
much more reluctant. I think there is a risk that, because there are | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
always costs of non-intervention, as we have seen in Syria. There is a | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
terrible dilemma for politicians these days. On intervention, they | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
are damned if they do and damned if they don't. But on that point, if | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
you can show as a British Prime Minister that you have gone through | :25:07. | :25:09. | |
every process, you have challenged the evidence, your cabinet has | :25:10. | :25:16. | |
challenge you, you have done your damnedest to get everyone on the UN | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
Security Council to support you, if you can show the British public that | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
and the legal advice says it is all right, then you might feel more | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
justified. They did all of that. The Blair admitted on the radio this | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
morning that he didn't challenge the intelligence. But the idea that we | :25:35. | :25:40. | |
didn't try to get the Security Council, that was the whole point of | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
our strategy, to go through the United Nations. If you listen to | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
what our ambassador at the time has said today, he doesn't agree with | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
Chilcot's view that we undermined the US Security Council -- the UN | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
Security Council. It was Russia and France. It wasn't Mr Blair's job to | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
challenge the intelligence, that is the job of the intelligence experts. | :26:03. | :26:07. | |
But he should have been careful ball about how he presented it to the | :26:08. | :26:10. | |
public. But as Prime Minister, surely you can say to your | :26:11. | :26:15. | |
intelligence chiefs, are you sure about this? You shouldn't have to | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
say that. If the intelligence chiefs in a piece of intelligence to you | :26:20. | :26:22. | |
and say you can rely on it, that is their job. But if you wanted to | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
sleep that night, you would double-check. Who is the Prime | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
Minister to say, I want to make an independent check of this? This goes | :26:36. | :26:38. | |
back to my concerned that they had decided they were going to go that | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
way. I think they grasp this with great joy. Having been involved in | :26:44. | :26:52. | |
intelligence for years and years, I couldn't believe that that piece of | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
intelligence was so absolutely clear. It seemed to me, this can't | :26:57. | :27:03. | |
be right. I have read the ports and they are normally infuriating | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
because they have some any caveats. This had no caveats. I didn't like | :27:08. | :27:12. | |
it. I felt like people were saying, great. We can now go. Intelligence | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
was presented as if it was uniquely worthy of belief. Actually, | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
intelligence is uniquely worthy of scepticism. Why didn't intelligence | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
chiefs say to Mr Blair, you are presenting this in a way that we | :27:28. | :27:32. | |
have not delivered it to you? Because they didn't see that as | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
their job. Oh, my gosh! Their job was to make sure the dossier | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
presented the conclusions of the intelligence community. It was up to | :27:43. | :27:50. | |
politicians to decide. Ultimately, it is the policymakers who decide. I | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
know that, but intelligent people in the intelligence community could | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
also have said, hang on a minute, not for that is what we said. They | :28:01. | :28:07. | |
had warned the politicians. They said, the intelligence is sporadic. | :28:08. | :28:15. | |
And yet that was not reflected. So the intelligence community could | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
have said that. Well, if you have said it wants... To be fair to Tony | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
Blair, sometimes you have to make decisions. That is why he was Prime | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
Minister. I wouldn't want to be Prime Minister. There are times when | :28:30. | :28:38. | |
there are political decisions you have to make and be clear about | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
them. I do accept that. Thank you all very much. | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
Still to come in the last 45 minutes of the programme, there is an NHS | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
staffing crisis in England and Wales. A warning that even allowing | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
more overseas nurses to work in the UK will not be enough to plug the | :28:56. | :28:57. | |
gap in the workforce. And we will talk to major lily, the | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
comedian turned film-maker, who will be here talk about the film he has | :29:04. | :29:08. | |
made that looks at the stop the war process -- Omid Djalii, and his film | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
about the stop the war protest. Now the latest news. | :29:18. | :29:24. | |
A 32-year-old taxi driver, Tanveer Ahmed from Bradford and West | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
Yorkshire, has pleaded guilty at the High Court in Glasgow to the murder | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
of the shopkeeper Assad Shah in March this year. The 40-year-old was | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
killed just hours after he posted an Easter message on Facebook to his | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
customers which read, Good Friday and a very happy Easter, especially | :29:40. | :29:45. | |
to my beloved Christian nation. The former Prime Minister Tony Blair | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
has again sought to defend his decision to leave Britain -- lead | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
Britain into the Iraq war. The Chilcot report was critical of the | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
war's planning, conduct and aftermath. Senior figures have | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
suggested the inquiry underplayed the role of the US in pushing for | :30:03. | :30:04. | |
military action to told the BBC this morning that he | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
had tried to persuade the US to go down a different route. | :30:10. | :30:18. | |
If they go back to the United Nations and | :30:19. | :30:20. | |
get a resolution there, that of course postpones military action, | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
which was my purpose, and gives us a chance | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
You will find elsewhere in the evidence that after the November | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
resolution was passed, there was a conversation | :30:31. | :30:32. | |
where President Bush accepted explicitly that if there | :30:33. | :30:33. | |
was compliance with 1441, there would not be military action. | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
So, I understand exactly what you're saying. | :30:37. | :30:38. | |
You can take these phrases and debate what they mean. | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
But I can assure you, what I meant was very, | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
very clear, and was clear to the Americans - I am right | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
alongside you in dealing with this, but it has to be done the right way. | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
It has to be done through the United Nations. | :30:53. | :31:02. | |
Two children, aged two and three, have died after the car | :31:03. | :31:05. | |
they were travelling in crashed into a loch near Oban in Argyll. | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
A 36-year-old woman was taken to hospital as a precaution | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
Police Scotland have appealed for further information. | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
MPs have expressed significant concerns | :31:15. | :31:15. | |
candidate for the next head of the schools regulator, | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
The Education Select Committee has questioned | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
Amanda Spielman's passion for the job, and understanding | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
But Education Secretary Nicky Morgan says Ms Spielman remains | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
She's currently chairwoman of the exams regulator Ofqual. | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
The current Ofsted boss, Sir Michael Wilshaw, | :31:32. | :31:32. | |
Join me for BBC Newsroom Live at 11 o'clock. | :31:33. | :31:47. | |
Let's get more on that Wales defeat in Euro 2016 with | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
For the final time, to talk about the disappointment of Wales, but the | :31:54. | :32:06. | |
fact that they can be proud. That's really sad, for the final time! Yes, | :32:07. | :32:13. | |
Wales were full stop. Out by Portugal in the semifinal last | :32:14. | :32:15. | |
night. Andy Murray says he had to summon up all of his energy to | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
overcome Jo-Wilfried Tsonga at Wimbledon in the quarterfinal | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
yesterday's. World number plays Tomas Berdych in the semifinal | :32:23. | :32:30. | |
tomorrow. And the Belgian cyclist Greg van Avermaet takes a big lead | :32:31. | :32:41. | |
in the Tour de France. So, for the last time, that is all the sport | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
from me, in France. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed your stuff from | :32:48. | :32:48. | |
over there. Well, Andrea Leadsom has been | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
setting out her views on the post-Brexit economy, | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
she said what the country needs And I say to all of those people - | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
I am with you, and I want you to share in the great | :32:59. | :33:11. | |
future for this country. I want to see better training, | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
smarter working, yes, and higher pay I want to lead a nation | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
where anyone who aims high Our political guru Norman Smith | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
is in Westminster, where Andrea Leadsom | :33:26. | :33:43. | |
is launching her campaign What else has she had to say? I | :33:44. | :33:54. | |
think she sees herself as the sunny side up candidate, don't worry about | :33:55. | :33:58. | |
it, guys, life is going to carry on, we are the fifth biggest economy, | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
people will still want to trade with us. GDP, she predict it, would keep | :34:03. | :34:07. | |
on going up. Time to end austerity, talk about prosperity. Trying to put | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
an up the message on the aftermath of the referendum. In terms of | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
nitty-gritty, I have to say, we got pretty much nothing. The only things | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
we got were, she reaffirmed her commitment to say to EU migrants, | :34:22. | :34:26. | |
you're OK, you can stay, contrasting with what Theresa May has said. And | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
saying to farmers, don't worry, you will still get the same amount of | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
money as you get through the common Agricultural Policy. I think the | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
difficulty with it was this. She is by and large and unknown. Most | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
people do not know much about her at all. If this was her presenting who | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
she wasn't she was about, then, crikey, it was a bit of a short | :34:49. | :34:53. | |
presentation. We only got about 4.5 minutes and there were no questions | :34:54. | :34:57. | |
or anything. So if you want to set out your vision and tell the public | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
what you're about, it struck me as a bit of a missed opportunity. That's | :35:03. | :35:07. | |
interesting. So, what next in this Tory leadership and British Prime | :35:08. | :35:13. | |
Minister race? Well, I mean, I'm thinking she probably will go | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
through to the final briefs, which will be decided tonight. And then | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
you will have a ballot of party members. The reason I say that is | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
their seems to be a real stop Andrea Leadsom campaign building up. There | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
has been stuff floating around about her CV, suggestions that she has got | :35:29. | :35:35. | |
ties to Ukip, she has been hammered for not publishing her tax returns. | :35:36. | :35:39. | |
But above all come last night, we actually got proof that there are | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
moves to try and get some of Theresa May's many, many supporters to vote | :35:45. | :35:47. | |
for Michael Gove, to make sure that Andrea Leadsom does not get onto the | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
final ballot. That is being done not by Theresa May supporters, but by | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
Michael Gove's, who has texted about a dozen of his pals last night, who | :36:00. | :36:03. | |
were voting for Theresa May, to say, please don't vote for Andrea | :36:04. | :36:10. | |
Leadsom, because if it goes to a vote of party members, she could | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
win, just like Iain Duncan Smith did. So there is lots of party | :36:14. | :36:17. | |
tricks going on. Norman Smith, thank you. | :36:18. | :36:22. | |
There's a shortage of nurses in the NHS in England and Wales | :36:23. | :36:24. | |
according to a report published in the last few minutes. | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
On top of that, the Institute for Employment Studies says 1 in 3 | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
nurses are set to retire in the next 10 years, causing | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
Today's research also shows the NHS is heavily reliant on nurses from EU | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
countries like Spain, Portugal and Ireland. | :36:38. | :36:38. | |
Here alongside me is the Chief Executive of the Royal College | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
of Nursing, Janet Davies, and in Southampton is Jane Ball, | :36:42. | :36:43. | |
who is a former nurse and now researcher specialising in NHS | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
staffing at the University of Southampton. | :36:47. | :36:54. | |
Welcome to the programme. How short are we of nurses? We know we are | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
significantly short. Our estimate was about 20,000 nurses at our last | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
count, short of nurses, across the country. Wow! Out of how many nurses | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
in total? Thousands of nurses. But it is significant in many areas, and | :37:13. | :37:17. | |
we know that it is across the country, it is no longer in pockets. | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
This report shows that it is common in England and Wales, it is not just | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
specifics like London, which we know always has a problem. But we need | :37:26. | :37:31. | |
another 20,000 nurses to be up to capacity? Yes, for safe staffing | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
levels. And this is in all levels, not just in the hospitals, it is | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
community settings, nursing homes, everywhere where nursing care is | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
provided. Jane, is it as bad as that? Yes, I would say it is. The | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
last count of vacancies suggested that something like one in ten | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
nursing posts are vacant. So we are running 10% below the capacity that | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
we should have. Janet, why are we short? There is a number of reasons. | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
Firstly there has been a failure to plan for the number of nurses we | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
need with the ageing workforce across all sectors of health care. | :38:09. | :38:13. | |
Nurses can work in hospitals, communities, the independent set and | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
in an increasing number of nursing homes. Also there has been some very | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
short-term decisions made in the past. When they have been short of | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
money, trying to balance the books, organisations have not only cut the | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
number of posts to a dangerous level, but also reduce the number of | :38:32. | :38:35. | |
commissions for nurse training places, fearing that they will not | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
need them in the future, when of course, three years later, we are | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
finding ourselves short of nurses. So that failure to see the | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
long-term. What are the barriers to people training as a nurse and | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
qualifying? I think that is the sad thing, actually. There is plenty of | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
appetite out there for people to become nurses and in fact we turn | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
away 30,000 people each year, because the demand to go into | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
nursing far outstrips our ability and the funding we have to actually | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
trying people. So there's lots of opportunity to get into nursing and | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
lots of desire, but we have not been funding enough. We know we need more | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
but we have not commissioned enough nursing places to meet that need. | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
Would you agree with that? Absolutely, yes. . What about the | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
fact that so many are going to retire in the next ten years? What | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
about the fact that we voted to leave the EU, will that have an | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
impact on nurses coming from the rest of Europe? Absolutely, it might | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
do. It might do? We don't know yet what is going to happen post-Brexit. | :39:38. | :39:43. | |
But obviously if we have not got freedom of movement and we are not | :39:44. | :39:46. | |
able to bring nurses in, as quickly as we can across Europe, because we | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
have mutual recognition of qualifications across Europe, then | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
it will affect it. But obviously we do not know if that will be the case | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
yet. One in three due to retire in the next ten years, plus the vote to | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
leave the EU- what impact will it have, do you think? I I think the | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
combination of these things is all pointing to a bad situation getting | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
worse. So we know we have not got in -- enough nurses now, and that can | :40:15. | :40:21. | |
only get more difficult, unless we start increasing the number of | :40:22. | :40:25. | |
registered nurses that we train ourselves. Using international | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
recruits has been a quick fix, but it's not a solution. With 83% of the | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
nurses coming in coming from EU countries, we can't carry on | :40:36. | :40:40. | |
thinking that this is a cost-effective way of solving our | :40:41. | :40:43. | |
problems. Thank you both of much, both of you. Still to come, it was a | :40:44. | :40:55. | |
game too far. That's what Chris Coleman said last night, as Wales | :40:56. | :40:59. | |
bowed out what Euro 2016. We will speak to more of their fans. | :41:00. | :41:05. | |
On February 15th, 2003, 30 million people gathered in 800 | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
cities around the world to protest against the impending Iraq War. | :41:09. | :41:11. | |
Most of us will remember the scenes - streets packed with people | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
of all ages, nationalities and a few famous faces. | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
To this day, the Stop The War protests still remain | :41:18. | :41:20. | |
the largest recorded mass protest in our history. | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
But despite the public outcry, the war still went ahead. | :41:27. | :41:33. | |
Omid Djalili, the comedian and actor, was so moved by what happened | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
that day he made a film about it called We Are Many. | :41:38. | :41:41. | |
Before we speak to him, let's first take a look at a clip. | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
Everybody in the world has a chance today to say no, absolutely no, to | :41:48. | :41:58. | |
war on Iraq! There was this real desire, come on, Tony Blair, listen. | :41:59. | :42:02. | |
You have to listen, you can't ignore this many people. Blair went up to | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
Scotland to speak at the Scottish Labour Party conference. His speech | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
is greeted with stony silence - something that never, ever happens. | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
As you watch your TV pictures of the march, just ponder this. If there | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
are 500,000 on the march, that is still less than the number of people | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
whose death Saddam Hussein has been responsible for. If there are 1 | :42:30. | :42:33. | |
billion, that is still less than the number of people that died in the | :42:34. | :42:38. | |
wars that he started. We are starting something really big, and | :42:39. | :42:45. | |
our first task is peace in Iraq. Ridding the world of Saddam would be | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
an act of unity. It is leaving him there that is inhumane. We must not | :42:52. | :42:59. | |
stop until we have achieved the object of that brings as all to Hyde | :43:00. | :43:01. | |
Park this afternoon. So why did international public | :43:02. | :43:03. | |
outcry not make any difference And what have lessons been | :43:04. | :43:05. | |
learnt by politicans? Welcome to the programme. Why did it | :43:06. | :43:18. | |
not make any difference? We believe it did make a huge difference. At | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
the time it didn't. I was one of those people who did not go on the | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
march, I did not believe it would make any difference. Even though | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
there were 30 million people worldwide, and we did not know that | :43:30. | :43:33. | |
at the time, I thought 100 people could march and it would not make a | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
single bit of difference. But the legacy of that particular much, we | :43:38. | :43:43. | |
show in the film that really the Arab Spring was very much influenced | :43:44. | :43:47. | |
by that, the decision not to go to war in Syria, people remembering ten | :43:48. | :43:51. | |
years before. So actually the reason nothing happened at the time is | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
because we all felt helpless. People thought we could do one | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
demonstration and nothing followed up from it. That's why it fell | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
apart. You say you were not involved, but having made the film | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
and look at this in depth, do you think people did think that by going | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
on the streets, it would stop the invasion of Iraq? I think they did. | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
It is really interesting, those 30 million people, how did they know | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
that the war was wrong, and a lot of us thought at the time, we have got | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
to remove Saddam? I think people could feel that there had to be some | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
kind of reaction after 9/11. People have discussed this even before - | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
what has Saddam Hussein got to do with Al-Qaeda? There was a reaction | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
after 9/11 - troops went into Afghanistan. The Chilcot Report | :44:38. | :44:44. | |
seems to conclude that future wars, we need to take more care. What a | :44:45. | :44:49. | |
paradox, we need a caring war. Like wars should be more soft and | :44:50. | :44:52. | |
compassionate. I think people just did not want a war. I think the body | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
of humanity is like a human body. If you stub your toe, the furthest part | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
away from your head, you're going to want that pain to go away. Those | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
demonstrations, it was middle England, people with pushchairs and | :45:07. | :45:09. | |
families, they knew that there would be so much damage, people were going | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
to die, and they didn't want that to happen. That's why they chanted, not | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
in our name. OK, you're going to do what you want but don't do it on | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
behalf of the people. That's why the people were so upset. The wisdom of | :45:24. | :45:27. | |
the crowd. I don't know if you saw any of Tony Blair yesterday's or | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
heard him on the radio this morning, but hit if it every pleaded with | :45:31. | :45:36. | |
people to put themselves in his position as Prime Minister of a | :45:37. | :45:41. | |
country. -- but he effectively pleaded. One year on from 9/11, | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
looking at the intelligence, thinking, there might be a 9/11 in | :45:47. | :45:49. | |
Britain. We all knew Saddam Hussein was dangerous, and he had to make a | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
decision. It may have been the wrong decision, in many people's eyes, but | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
his job was to make that decision - do you accept what he said? | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
He did what he thought was right. It is not for me to say anything about | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
Tony Blair, we are just film-makers. Our film is a historical document of | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
what happened. Tony Blair has said even today, I thought we should back | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
the Americans, but we should do it through the United Nations Security | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
Council. In the film, there is an important moment when Lord Goldsmith | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
has written a letter saying the invasion of Iraq cannot happen | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
without a further Security Council consultations. And on that piece of | :46:36. | :46:39. | |
paper, there is a scribble on the side that says, I don't understand | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
this. And that is Tony Blair who has written it. So whatever Tony Blair | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
thinks he is doing, it's not for me to say, but I don't think he | :46:49. | :46:51. | |
believed the United Nations was something they had to consult with. | :46:52. | :46:57. | |
Stephen Powell 's was on here yesterday, an international criminal | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
lawyer, who said that if you look at international law, that war was | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
illegal. But if you go ahead without a further Security Council | :47:07. | :47:10. | |
resolution, you are not going with the International Criminal Court, | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
you are not going with international law. So when Kofi and an set, -- | :47:14. | :47:21. | |
Kofi Annan said, was this an illegal war, and he said, if you wish, yes. | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
That is why people were upset by it and they said, not in my name. Since | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
then, we have seen all sorts of protests in this country. Not on | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
that scale, but you could argue that perhaps decisions being taken were | :47:38. | :47:41. | |
not as enormous as that. I wonder if the fact that so many turned out | :47:42. | :47:45. | |
back then on February the 15th, 2003... 800,000. We had no idea of | :47:46. | :47:53. | |
the scale of it. I did an advert with John Prescott, so I remained | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
friends with him. He was Deputy Prime Minister. He saw the film and | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
rang me up and said, I had no idea of the scale of it. Had we known of | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
the sheer scale of that and that it was global, maybe we would have gone | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
a different way. Now, you cannot ignore that many people. In the | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
film, we are showing that there is a second superpower that is developing | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
in the world right now. And that is global public opinion. We ignore | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
that at our peril. Things like Twitter, an individual can make a | :48:25. | :48:31. | |
difference. When James Foley was beheaded by what was then called | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
Islamic State, I remember thinking, which Islamic State? And went on my | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
mum thought, OK, these are terrorists. And I wrote a tweet | :48:40. | :48:46. | |
saying, dear BBC, please refer to the group as a group calling | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
themselves Islamic State, because no Islamic State would do this. It got | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
several re-tweets and then someone said, you have done it. The BBC an | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
now calling them the group that calls itself Islamic State. We have | :49:00. | :49:03. | |
the power where one individual can change something. What is this | :49:04. | :49:09. | |
relationship now between individuals and community and institutions? | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
Before, the mass of humanity were saying, this is an illegal war, we | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
don't want people to die, and the institutions ignored them. How can | :49:21. | :49:25. | |
we redress that balance? Do you have a view about the next generation of | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
protesters? They saw what happened with that protest in 2003. They | :49:30. | :49:34. | |
happened in 800 cities around the world. Does that have an impact? It | :49:35. | :49:41. | |
had a huge impact. When the vote went to Parliament, one of the | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
things we show in the film, the vote over whether to invade Syria, that | :49:47. | :49:54. | |
was in 2030. People remembered what happened in 2003 -- that was in | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
2013. David Cameron said, I get that people do not want to take us to war | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
and we will act accordingly. Whether that was the right decision or not, | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
I want to say as to make is that we do not believe in total people | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
power, because recently on who was to be a millionaire, they asked the | :50:14. | :50:16. | |
audience on the question was, who played the lead role in the film | :50:17. | :50:21. | |
Doctor Zhivago, and 60% said it was Linford Christie! So you don't | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
listen to everything the public say. The crowds are not always so wise. | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
Where can people see your film? It is in cinemas right now and will be | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
available for digital download from the 18th of July. Thank you very | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
much. The great Wales adventure | :50:38. | :50:39. | |
at Euro 2016 is over after they were beaten 2-0 | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
by Portugal in the For the fans, there was of course | :50:42. | :50:43. | |
disappointment, but a huge sense of pride in a team that defied | :50:44. | :50:47. | |
the odds to reach the last four Let's take a look at | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
how they got there. Ramsey, weaving through to Bale, | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
surely this time! Bale with another | :50:57. | :51:20. | |
wicked delivery, and it is turned into his own net | :51:21. | :51:44. | |
by the unfortunate Gareth McAuley. That man, Gareth Bale, | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
with a fantastic Unfortunate to get the own goal, | :51:52. | :51:54. | |
but I'm just going to say this. Wales are in the quarterfinals | :51:55. | :52:02. | |
of the Ashley Williams Heather. Belgium | :52:03. | :52:42. | |
one, Wales one. What I term, what a goal! -- what a turn. | :52:43. | :53:00. | |
In towards Vokes! Something special is happening here tonight! Wales are | :53:01. | :53:16. | |
going into the semifinals! What a ball, what a header! | :53:17. | :53:39. | |
If you work hard enough and you are not afraid to dream and you're not | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
afraid to fail, everybody fails. I've had more failures than I've had | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
success, but I'm not afraid to fail. I'm enjoying it, and I think we | :53:49. | :53:50. | |
deserve it. Cristiano Ronaldo! It is 2-0! | :53:51. | :54:11. | |
Disappointed, to put it lightly. But we have got to learn from it. I am | :54:12. | :54:15. | |
very proud of the team. They couldn't have given any more. I | :54:16. | :54:18. | |
always say to them, if you have given everything you've got and you | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
come up short, so what? That is it. They gave what they had. It was just | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
want to far for us tonight. I feel emotional, and I am English! | :54:26. | :54:35. | |
Let's be to Professor Laura McAllister, chair of sport Wales, in | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
Cardiff. And a father and son who were in Lyon, where they watched the | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
game last night. I hope you can both hear me. How are you feeling this | :54:45. | :54:50. | |
morning? Both feeling pretty bereft, really. Reaching the semifinals was | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
a fantastic achievement. You have the next bit comes along and it | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
hasn't. Despite everything those heroes have done for their country, | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
I am feeling empty. I will get over it. There is a homecoming tomorrow | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
and I hope that will be cathartic from my point of view. And then | :55:11. | :55:20. | |
normal life will resume. I am a little bit disappointed, but not | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
hugely. Our country reached the semifinal of a major tournament. A | :55:27. | :55:31. | |
few years ago, that felt impossible. Coleman has done a great job, and | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
Gary speed as well. It is well-deserved. And they deserved to | :55:38. | :55:43. | |
be in this position. It didn't happen that night, but it has been | :55:44. | :55:51. | |
an unbelievable journey. I can't wait for Moldova at home now. Laura, | :55:52. | :56:00. | |
I wonder what kind of example this will give to young boys and girls | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
who want to play football? I think it's going to be a fabulous | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
inspiration to them, and all credit to the players and squad and the | :56:10. | :56:16. | |
fans. We have been a United team, with the players as close to the | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
fans as the fans are to the players. They have been wonderful role models | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
for girls and boys who want to take up football. We couldn't have asked | :56:26. | :56:28. | |
for more from them. But the important thing is not just to | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
inspire the children who can be good at football, it is to inspire | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
everybody, young and old, whatever their background, to take up some | :56:37. | :56:39. | |
form of football, because it is easily the most popular sport and it | :56:40. | :56:44. | |
is a fun and easy way to keep fit. So hopefully, this will inspire not | :56:45. | :56:48. | |
just success, but also grassroots football. You said last year that it | :56:49. | :56:51. | |
was more important for the reputation of Wales to qualify for | :56:52. | :56:56. | |
Euro 2016 than for the rugby team to win the World Cup, is that right? I | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
said that. I wasn't trying to be controversial. I said it in a | :57:02. | :57:03. | |
lecture at the Hay festival. The point I was trying to make was, in | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
terms of selling Wales to the WorldCom in terms of status, the | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
footballing European Championships are ways going to be a bigger event | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
than the Rugby World Cup. And I stand by that, because we see how | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
the world has seen Wales and is interested in Wales. And haven't we | :57:21. | :57:23. | |
sold ourselves well on the global stage? Bebo can see a really | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
forward-looking, passionate nation -- people can see a forward-looking | :57:29. | :57:36. | |
nation. Quick final point to Gwilym and Gethin. One of our English | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
viewers says, to everyone in Wales, your football is on a journey and | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
the Euros were just the start. You have every right to be proud of your | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
team and the fans. Good luck for the future. That is very nice. We knew | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
we had the world behind us yesterday. The mooring the more | :57:56. | :58:03. | |
important point is what Laura said. Our leaders have a duty to make the | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
most of what has happened. Our players and management have shown | :58:08. | :58:10. | |
leadership on the pitch. There is so much opportunity for our country. | :58:11. | :58:14. | |
The players and fans have been great ambassadors, and it is important | :58:15. | :58:20. | |
that the country progresses through football and in every other area. | :58:21. | :58:26. | |
Thank you so much, all of you. Back at nine o'clock tomorrow. BBC News | :58:27. | :58:30. | |
relied is next. Have | :58:31. | :58:32. |