30/10/2016 MOTD2 Extra


30/10/2016

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Welcome to MOTD 2 Extra on BBC Two and the BBC Sport website.

:00:28.:00:30.

With me this lunchtime - Kevin Kilbane, MOTD commentator

:00:31.:00:33.

Guy Mowbray and Andy Dunn, from the Sunday Mirror.

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As ever, get involved using the hashtag #bbcfootball

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Manchester City end their six-game winless run with a 4-0 victory

:00:38.:00:46.

Liverpool also win emphatically and are level at the top

:00:47.:00:50.

Arsene Wenger's side also score four - to leave Sunderland with the worst

:00:51.:00:55.

start ever to a Premier League season.

:00:56.:00:57.

But misery for Jose Mourinho, who's sent to the stands,

:00:58.:00:59.

as Manchester United are held at home by Burnley.

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The Sunday papers are dominated by Jose Mourinho.

:01:04.:01:06.

Saying the Manchester United manager faces a stadium ban.

:01:07.:01:16.

Andy's paper, The Sunday Mirror, has a story about Yaya Toure,

:01:17.:01:20.

quoting the player's agent as saying that Pep Guardiola is snubbing his

:01:21.:01:23.

How dominant Royal Liverpool? It should have been five or six at

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half-time, how Palace went in 3-2 down at half-time, I do not know

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because of Liverpool's dominance. Everything we expect from Liverpool

:01:47.:01:51.

going forward was evident. Palace played into their hands, they

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dropped very deep and they tried to maybe take away the spacing behind

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them from a defensive point of view. I think Liverpool, and yesterday's

:01:59.:02:03.

showing the game, you may be looked at them defensively because they did

:02:04.:02:07.

show severe vulnerability. But going forward, they are as good as

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anybody. What has changed between this season and last season so far?

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Saddier money makes a difference and gives them more pace going forward.

:02:19.:02:25.

He has got great movement with those upfront, with Roberto Firmino. He

:02:26.:02:28.

still shake your head with disbelief how Daniel Sturridge cannot get in

:02:29.:02:35.

the side. But you see the movement and the way they interchange, it is

:02:36.:02:40.

so difficult for Scott Dann and Tomkins to deal with the movement of

:02:41.:02:46.

Roberto Firmino. And Roberto Firmino loves the physical battle, you put

:02:47.:02:50.

the ball in the air and he is not afraid to jump and use his physical

:02:51.:02:54.

strength. So Liverpool going forward look as good as anything I have

:02:55.:03:00.

seen. Jurgen Klopp has had a preseason, that has changed. He said

:03:01.:03:03.

last season, I cannot wait for pre-season. He has had the time to

:03:04.:03:08.

work with the team and with the squad. They know exactly. Talk about

:03:09.:03:13.

the interchange, they know exactly how they want to play. There is a

:03:14.:03:17.

great dynamic amongst the players, they understand what Klopp wants and

:03:18.:03:22.

he drums that in over preseason. He has had a year, he has got the squad

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he wants and the players and the first team he wants and it is

:03:27.:03:30.

showing the way they play. The understanding they have. I mentioned

:03:31.:03:34.

the front three and I suppose it is almost like a front five. Yesterday,

:03:35.:03:40.

Emre Can and Adam Lallana were excellent in supporting roles and

:03:41.:03:45.

they know instinctively. When Roberto Firmino cuts deep Philippe

:03:46.:03:52.

Coutinho, -- Philippe Coutinho, it works so well. They are great going

:03:53.:03:57.

forward, but will that defence come back to haunt them? Three of those

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players you mentioned, they have hit their peak and become men. Henderson

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is a leader and he has captained his country, Philippe Coutinho is the

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proper Number 10, not far behind Neymar in Brazilian teams, he is a

:04:12.:04:15.

leader now and no longer the Prodigy turning it on occasionally. And you

:04:16.:04:19.

have Adam Lallana, he is now a Liverpool player, he looks are

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Bournemouth ballplayer. It is interesting to you talked about

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Philippe Coutinho is a proper Number 10. Listening to David Pleat

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yesterday on 5 Live, to summarise the game. In between the amusing

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pronunciations of various players! It made me laugh as I was driving

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home. Philippe Coutinho reminds him of Luka Modric. Yes, the same

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stature. More goals to his game. But I am talking about, he is not just a

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Number 10 in the sense that from what David was saying he can play a

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bit deep. She used him a bit deep this season and it did not quite

:05:03.:05:05.

work for Liverpool going forward because he almost restricted him and

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he felt he was coming too deep to receive the ball. When he starts

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higher and comes into that position, it suits him better. This is Jurgen

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Klopp's view after Liverpool's 4-2 win. The first half, it was not

:05:19.:05:23.

really clear enough and direct enough and clinical enough. But then

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we started playing really nice football and as I say, it was really

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outstanding what we did then, passing wise, movement wise, it was

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really good. We scored the girls and we had a lot more chances. A good

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goal keeper, not clinical enough from our side. One was a real

:05:44.:05:46.

present and the other one less a present but we could have defended

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better. Does the defending matter if you

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score three or four? No, it doesn't. Liverpool's best form of defence is

:05:59.:06:04.

clearly attack, it is to chase down possession in the opposite half,

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this fabled high pressing game means defensively... You clearly have got

:06:09.:06:13.

to defend better. There are still questions over maybe the goalkeeping

:06:14.:06:16.

position. There is still uncertainty. I still think they are

:06:17.:06:19.

vulnerable from set pieces at the back. Those things, he can work on.

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And going forward, gave -- they get so much of the ball and cause so

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many problems, that might not be an issue. And listening to Jurgen

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Klopp, don't underestimate how much of an influence he is having come up

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with his positivity. He will not say, tough, he will say, we are in

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the title race, we are genuine contenders. The interview I heard on

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the radio after the game, what you think of that? Spectacular! Went you

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get a manager as bullish as that? It has to rub off on the players.

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Before the game he stands on the halfway line and he stares at the

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opposition and it must be intimidating for the Palace players

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when they are doing their drills. Jurgen Klopp is on the edge of the

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area they are working in just literally looking at them. I don't

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know why he does it, I don't think he has been asked a question, it is

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almost like an intimidating thing before the game starts. Ask people

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who knew him in Germany and they say he is charismatic, but he can also

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be a charismatic so and so! That is the exact phrase they use and he is

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ruthless. The Daniel Sturridge situation, he is doing what he sees

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as best for the team and he is not afraid. Daniel Sturridge will not be

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happy not being in the Premier league. But Jurgen Klopp is

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ruthless. Chris says that until they sort their defence, they do not win

:07:44.:07:46.

anything and they are deluded if they think they can win the league.

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And also, yes, not the best defensively but among the best in

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the world. European football makes it much easier for them. Quickly on

:07:56.:07:58.

that defence of thing, maybe there are issues, but are you saying

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defence is any worse than Manchester City's defence and Arsenal's?

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Chelsea? Probably worse than Tottenham. But not winning anything

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does not hold, I do not think they will win a title. Look at Kevin

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Keegan's Newcastle, do not need to score four goals to win, they are

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not not believing anything, I don't believe that. And it said the

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intensity they play out, eventually, that will come back to bite them by

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February, March, April. If they have not got European football and he has

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got a preseason, he is not an idiot. He has done this at Dortmund. He

:08:40.:08:45.

knows how to talk about a team. We talked about those players, he is

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still the biggest factor, Jurgen Klopp. We go on about coaching, the

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higher the levels of football, the less about coaching and more about

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man management it becomes and I think he is the best in the game.

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And physically, the physical commitment of Leicester did not

:09:02.:09:04.

lessen as the season went on as they had a game a week. They had a game

:09:05.:09:08.

in week and it was the same team, not just the squad. It is

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preparation as well. Training, that is what Liverpool do. It is about

:09:14.:09:18.

getting the time on the training ground and the training field. It

:09:19.:09:22.

will be intense the way they train, that is the way they go about

:09:23.:09:26.

things, but maybe tapering it down towards games towards the end of the

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season. The luxury Jurgen Klopp has is not necessarily available to

:09:32.:09:32.

other managers. Manchester City are top -

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above Arsenal and Liverpool on goal difference -

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after yesterday's 4-0 He is one of the best, yes?

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Absolutely. But I want to help him to be much, much better. So that is

:09:50.:09:57.

my target, to help him every game to feel how important it is for us and

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of course he is one of the best. You have just to see how many goals he

:10:02.:10:04.

schools in the Premier league, how difficult it is, and that is why I

:10:05.:10:09.

am so is, so happy for him. Because of all of that, he is one of the

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most nicest persons I ever met. And I love to work with nice guys, nice

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people, and Sergio is one of them. You were there, how dominant were

:10:22.:10:24.

they? They were quite brilliant in the first half. Every time I have

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seen City this season, there has been one hour of football that you

:10:29.:10:31.

think, this was better than last week, it is getting better and

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better. I thought too much was made of the run of winless games. It was

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thrown into contrast because they won the first ten in a row and you

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thought the wheels had come off, they did not, there were

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circumstances apart from the Tottenham defeat behind every game.

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There are different games with different circumstances. When

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everything is lumped together... Yesterday, they were still on top of

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the Premier league, people overlook that, they are still the best in the

:10:59.:11:02.

country when they hit it. He is still learning about the Premier

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league, he has never faced a team like West Bromwich Albion before,

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but he had a plan for them. And to his praise of Aguero was false and

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rightly so because he was magnificent yesterday. What was

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different yesterday? -- was all. He left him out of the Barcelona games.

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That led to some thinking he was finished at City and he was not a

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Pep Guardiola man, that is nonsense. Danny Murphy highlighted it is

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today, he flooded the midfield for the Barcelona game and it nearly

:11:36.:11:40.

worked until Claudio Bravo was sent off, it could have worked. Aguero is

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now tracking back. He made two yesterday. His Group 2 and he made

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one and he had a hand in everything City did. Does she scored two. We

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have seen headlines today about Toure, he would not be doing that

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sort of work in the middle and he has got everybody working and doing

:12:01.:12:03.

the same thing. I also wonder, looking at the line yesterday, when

:12:04.:12:08.

they were at the most dominant at the start of the season, it included

:12:09.:12:13.

most of the players who started yesterday. Aguero, Nolito, David

:12:14.:12:18.

Silva. There was only Kevin de Bruyne who did not start from that

:12:19.:12:22.

dominant period early in the season. There is nothing wrong with having a

:12:23.:12:26.

bit of stability. You say you understand the reasons why Aguero

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did not play against Barcelona and if I remember, he did not start the

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previous league game against Everton. He came off the bench. To

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me, Aguero has to play if he is fit in any game. You can be as clever as

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you want a tactically but I think Aguero has to play in every game. As

:12:44.:12:48.

he over thought it at times? Yes, can you imagine Luis Enrique turning

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round the Luis Suarez and saying, biggest game on Saturday, you're not

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playing. You are our best striker and you are not playing. I cannot

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imagine it at any other club and maybe that is Guardiola saying,

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nobody is bigger than the club, but I don't buy into that. But over that

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praise was interesting. He is one of the greatest guys I've ever met. I

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love that! Was almost as though it may be Guardiola had heard what

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people were saying and that was that may be Aguero was one of those

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players, the senior players, that Guardiola, I wouldn't say the word

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targeted, but has said, you cannot rest on what you have done before

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you got here. You cannot rest, so the spine, Jo Hart, Vincent Kompany,

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Toure, Aguero, David Silva, there was a suggestion they were the ones

:13:42.:13:45.

in training he was saying, you have to up your game and after this,

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maybe this is psychological, thanks for that, you have responded. Isn't

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the Luis Suarez comparison slightly misleading in the sense that

:13:58.:14:01.

Barcelona never have to play Barcelona? Therefore they don't have

:14:02.:14:04.

to worry about what they do is tactically. Every side that plays

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Barcelona worries about, even a side managed by Pep Guardiola, worries

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what they have to do tactically. When Guardiola was with Bayern

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Munich, he tried to play three at the back against Barcelona and he

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changed it to try and do something. I take what you are saying but the

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dog grow but! You kick it over that far side of the studio! They are

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playing Real Madrid or the big Champions League game and you leave

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out Luis Suarez or one of your top players, it will not happen. At any

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other club. But that is because they are at the level of being the very,

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very best. Sergio Aguero is not? Not Aguero, but you could argue City, as

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with the Premier league clubs, they are not at the elite European level.

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I am talking about the individual player. Aguero is that level, he is

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of the elite, the ultimate. Absolutely, but if you need a

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tactical plan at the elite level, what happens then? I get your point.

:15:06.:15:10.

If you put it on the team as a whole, I would take your point, I

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would have known what she meant. That was my point! If it didn't stop

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the cameras, I would move my chair over there! I know what you are

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saying but the fact is that Aguero, if you are going to build a side to

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beat the opposition, you have to play your best players and try to

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get him right to work within that system, that is what I would say.

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Not so much you build your team around him, but he has to be one of

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the players. Surely there is no tactical system

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he can't fit into. It has to be a balance. You can't just go there and

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think, this is how we will do it. Barcelona have needed to do that and

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there's no suggestion he would have dropped any of those front three,

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there is no suggestion those players would have been dropped. Why would

:16:02.:16:06.

he play on Tuesday when he didn't play Barcelona? Because he will play

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Tuesday. Just because they're away from home... That is a difference.

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We know that managers play differently away from home. But they

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needed to be a threat in Barcelona. And he carries the biggest threat so

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I didn't understand it. They actually played quite well on the

:16:27.:16:31.

day and then they threw it away. What was different yesterday, I was

:16:32.:16:36.

going to mention Guendogan. He was excellent. He seems to be getting

:16:37.:16:46.

the Premier League. They were having shots on goal from 20 yards. Aguero

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would have a go, fan and Ennio would have a go. Against Everton, they

:16:54.:17:01.

were trying to over do it. I'm not trying to pick arguments with every

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guest, but it is difficult to talk about these players! Lots of texts

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and tweets on Sergio Aguero. He has no equals in the Premier League.

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Goal drought issues or not, the strikes are sublime. I back Aguero

:17:24.:17:35.

for the first team any time. That's paid for my season tickets. By the

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way, Aston Villa have taken the lead against Birmingham. It is 1-0. Is

:17:41.:17:54.

this title race a three horse race? Arsenal, city and Liverpool? You

:17:55.:17:59.

only have to look at what Chelsea did to Manchester United and Chelsea

:18:00.:18:03.

are very much in it. Spurs are struggling a little four goals,

:18:04.:18:07.

really. I know Harry Kane has been injured which has been a big part of

:18:08.:18:12.

that as well. It is five and I wouldn't discount Man United. I was

:18:13.:18:15.

at Man United yesterday and they should have won that game. I would

:18:16.:18:21.

say six. I would say sixteens. I really believe that. So, do Arsenal

:18:22.:18:26.

look like title contenders than they have done in the last five or six

:18:27.:18:33.

years? Yes, without a doubt. That'll be a test for them despatching their

:18:34.:18:41.

closest rivals. I would say city and Arsenal are the top to bottom I do

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agree with Andy, I don't think we can call it all the way from. You

:18:46.:18:54.

wouldn't put Arsenal top to? No, I think they will fall away. Why? The

:18:55.:19:03.

one thing I would say with Arsenal, when you see them, I've seen a

:19:04.:19:09.

better response in games. They had a negativity when they gave the

:19:10.:19:13.

penalty away and they responded, scoring late against Burnley

:19:14.:19:16.

suggests to me they are better in shape mentally and able to go over

:19:17.:19:20.

that extra yard to get the result this year so I wouldn't discount

:19:21.:19:25.

them but from what I've seen who is playing the better football, Arsenal

:19:26.:19:29.

are playing great... Liverpool and city... You have Giroud, who hasn't

:19:30.:19:39.

started a game yet, he comes off the bench, he is a different goal

:19:40.:19:43.

threat. There is a little bit more about them. Do they have a better

:19:44.:19:55.

defensive partnership? Yes. Per Mertesacker, I'm not totally

:19:56.:20:02.

convinced about the stuffy, here's old-fashioned but I think that has

:20:03.:20:08.

had an impact. He wants to defend. I haven't seen that from Per

:20:09.:20:14.

Mertesacker. I think decent enough but I don't think he has that real

:20:15.:20:18.

will to defend for his team, I don't see it so I think they have a

:20:19.:20:24.

partnership straight away. It is the perennial question... Yes, and they

:20:25.:20:29.

have Spurs and Manchester United next in November. They do look you

:20:30.:20:36.

know, Ramsey came in yesterday, he came on, and they've got strength

:20:37.:20:41.

and depth now that they haven't had before. From one to 23, they look

:20:42.:20:47.

well-stocked and you have also got players in great form. Sanchez was

:20:48.:20:55.

magnificent yesterday. These teams we're talking about, Liverpool with

:20:56.:21:00.

Patino, Manchester City with David Silva, these great creative players,

:21:01.:21:07.

they have that with Sanchez. These are players that have been opening

:21:08.:21:12.

teams up time after time. Is the answer are they equipped to do it?

:21:13.:21:19.

Yes, they are. Liverpool, great run of fixtures. They play the

:21:20.:21:22.

Merseyside derby before Christmas. Leading up to that, they have a

:21:23.:21:27.

great run of fixtures. I think Liverpool could be top at Christmas.

:21:28.:21:32.

And they play Manchester City on New Year's Eve. A winner of schedule for

:21:33.:21:40.

everybody. We go Goodison next. Everton have gone five games without

:21:41.:21:41.

a win. Romelu Lukaku has scored in his last

:21:42.:21:58.

six games against West Ham, he has scored a lot of goals so far. West

:21:59.:22:04.

Ham now unbeaten in four games. Slaven Bilic makes one change,

:22:05.:22:09.

Adrian back in goal, otherwise it is the same team that played Chelsea

:22:10.:22:13.

midweek. Everton have had a bit of a wobble. Their recently record...

:22:14.:22:19.

Equally, if they win today, they'd go within two of Spurs. Defensively,

:22:20.:22:26.

they look a bit better. I think they've been like Tottenham, they

:22:27.:22:30.

haven't scored enough goals this season, heavily reliant on Romelu

:22:31.:22:35.

Lukaku. If he isn't scoring, where are they going to get goals?

:22:36.:22:40.

Certainly, Ross Barkley has been out of sorts this year. Ronald Koeman

:22:41.:22:44.

has questioned him, saying he needs to do various things to improve and

:22:45.:22:49.

stay in the side, Ross Barkley. That is where Everton are struggling. I

:22:50.:22:54.

don't think they can find anybody else to go with Romelu Lukaku to get

:22:55.:22:59.

them into double figures. I saw them at city, they were swamped. They

:23:00.:23:06.

looked as solid as you like. I am surprised by the recent run of

:23:07.:23:10.

results, put it that way. They are a better team, put it that way. I saw

:23:11.:23:16.

them with Crystal Palace. They played really well in the first half

:23:17.:23:20.

an hour of the game. Once they got the goal, they almost sat off and

:23:21.:23:25.

allowed Crystal Palace to come back in and Crystal Palace could have won

:23:26.:23:31.

it. Are they not dominant enough? I don't think they are, I don't

:23:32.:23:39.

think... Once they get in front, they continue to play. That is the

:23:40.:23:45.

bigger teams. Everton will sit on their lead which is something that

:23:46.:23:49.

will come. I have been impressed with Ronald Koeman and his side,

:23:50.:23:55.

they look better and more solid. I totally agree that Romelu Lukaku has

:23:56.:23:58.

to have more back-up in the goal-scoring front. Ross Barkley, he

:23:59.:24:03.

hasn't clicked on, someone who should be playing midfield and

:24:04.:24:07.

should be scoring. We have seen him score good goals, he's a good

:24:08.:24:10.

finisher and player. People like that should be chipping in with

:24:11.:24:17.

goals. Gerard Deulofeu and others, they should be helping Romelu Lukaku

:24:18.:24:23.

in terms of providing goals. There's a little bit of... A little bit of

:24:24.:24:29.

flair missing. Would rain Ruhnau help? Ronald Koeman quoted on the

:24:30.:24:32.

BBC sport website saying I don't know his situation and need to

:24:33.:24:35.

respect it, it's not my problem but even when we get one time the

:24:36.:24:39.

possibility that Wayne Rooney is an option for Everton, I'm very

:24:40.:24:44.

pleased. He shouldn't be an option for Everton. Everton have got an

:24:45.:24:48.

ambitious major investor. They want to be amongst the Man Uniteds, Man

:24:49.:24:54.

Citys, Liverpools of this world so if Wayne Rooney isn't good enough

:24:55.:24:58.

Man United, why should he be good enough for Everton? I think it might

:24:59.:25:05.

give him a spark, I'd take him back to Everton. I would. I think the

:25:06.:25:11.

majority of the fans would take him back. I think you'd fit well. Not

:25:12.:25:17.

necessarily... Not long-term, but it would be nice. How would it happen?

:25:18.:25:24.

Financially, it is a struggle to compete with the his wages. And

:25:25.:25:29.

United would expect a decent transfer fee. I don't think that big

:25:30.:25:36.

a transfer fee. I think United... My understanding is that he has this

:25:37.:25:40.

year than a year on top of that, then another year which is an

:25:41.:25:45.

option. Until 2018. Is it club option? An option on both sides. A

:25:46.:25:54.

lot of money, in terms of their contractual commitments. Certainly

:25:55.:26:01.

15 million for next season. If he isn't going to play for Manchester

:26:02.:26:04.

United, as rich as they are, they can't afford to have someone having

:26:05.:26:09.

that money so they'd want to get that money off their books so I'm

:26:10.:26:13.

sure they'd come to some compromise. Even if Wayne Rooney came to a

:26:14.:26:18.

compromise on his own wages going to Everton... Let's say he takes half

:26:19.:26:23.

of what he is on at Man United, that's double on what the top end

:26:24.:26:28.

Everton is on. However old he is going to be, let's say pushing 32

:26:29.:26:33.

next summer, do you think he comes on in that sort of money, and Romelu

:26:34.:26:39.

Lukaku is going to set I want that sort of money? Fraught with

:26:40.:26:42.

problems. When you're taking him, he has played a lot of games, would he

:26:43.:26:47.

be that effective for Everton? I think you'd provide a spark for the

:26:48.:26:52.

club. Not necessarily you say being able to play consistently over two

:26:53.:26:55.

or three seasons but I think you'd definitely provide a spark for that

:26:56.:27:00.

team. Are we being a little damage your calling time on his Manchester

:27:01.:27:05.

United days? Yes, but I was trying to get a debate going! I thought I'd

:27:06.:27:12.

throw it in there. I don't think it should happen. It would be a bad

:27:13.:27:16.

move from Everton's point of view. What I would say is it has been

:27:17.:27:22.

noticeable how the bridges between Ruhnau and Everton have been rebuilt

:27:23.:27:27.

over the last two or three years, Everton provided the opposition for

:27:28.:27:36.

Wayne Rooney's testimonial. He takes his sons to watch Everton. It is

:27:37.:27:44.

noticeable. It is a sort of romantic prodigal son story. Various

:27:45.:27:49.

discussions you're contributing to on text and tweet. Ricky says, the

:27:50.:27:54.

puzzle is coming together with more things to come. Fogg says Barcelona

:27:55.:28:01.

wouldn't drop Suarez because he works hard whereas Aguero doesn't.

:28:02.:28:08.

And Mark says, he is a Manchester City fan, which is an interesting

:28:09.:28:11.

point, Spurs are five games without a win but no mention from the media

:28:12.:28:16.

about a crisis there. Keep them coming. If you want to get involved.

:28:17.:28:21.

We move on to Sunderland to have made some unwanted history, two

:28:22.:28:25.

points from ten games, the worst ever start to a Premier League

:28:26.:28:31.

season. Here is David Moyes. I've been there before, maybe not quite

:28:32.:28:35.

in this situation but similar situations. First of all, we've got

:28:36.:28:41.

to get away from losing. We've got to get to not conceding goals. And

:28:42.:28:49.

we did a pretty good job at it. But then we didn't give ourselves a

:28:50.:28:53.

chance and they got a third after that and put the game beyond us.

:28:54.:28:58.

Former club of yours. Can you put your finger on one problem or are

:28:59.:29:03.

very multitude of problems? Multitude. Goal-scoring, defending,

:29:04.:29:06.

there are a number of issues that is going on. The one thing we spoke

:29:07.:29:11.

about before when Arsenal conceded a goal, they got themselves back into

:29:12.:29:15.

the game. For about five minutes afterwards, there was almost panic,

:29:16.:29:20.

the way that the players were addressing each other when Arsenal

:29:21.:29:24.

had a corner just prior to them getting... Panic from Sunderland

:29:25.:29:27.

once they got themselves back in front. Everyone was screaming at

:29:28.:29:31.

each other, no one could get themselves organised, no real

:29:32.:29:34.

leadership on the pitch, no real experience and it was almost as if

:29:35.:29:39.

right, we've scored, we need this game to end now. Same thing against

:29:40.:29:46.

Crystal Palace. You could see that. It's almost as if as a team... They

:29:47.:29:52.

maybe even need to look back and see how disorganised and just how they

:29:53.:29:58.

were conducting themselves on the pitch. If you look at it, you think,

:29:59.:30:02.

let's get ourselves right and organised and settled in a calm way.

:30:03.:30:07.

It was just such a scattered approach to getting the job done. We

:30:08.:30:12.

made the point about the body language of the Sunderland players

:30:13.:30:16.

after they'd scored the penalty. There was a bit of congratulations

:30:17.:30:21.

to Defoe, but then the players looking back sheepishly, thinking,

:30:22.:30:24.

what happens now? We all know what happened. Waiting for the inevitable

:30:25.:30:30.

to happen. The whole thing feels rudderless. I'm not saying that from

:30:31.:30:34.

the coach's point of view because I don't know what he can do. Sam

:30:35.:30:39.

Allardyce leaving the club in the summer, it's a punch to the stomach.

:30:40.:30:43.

They were euphoric surviving in the Premier League. They haven't

:30:44.:30:47.

recovered from Sam Allardyce leaving. If he is an experienced

:30:48.:30:52.

manager who has been around the block, surely he should be able to

:30:53.:30:55.

do something. There's only so much you can do with the resources at his

:30:56.:31:00.

disposal at the moment. I don't think they are good enough to get

:31:01.:31:05.

out of it this time. You're saying this is an unwanted statistic, the

:31:06.:31:10.

start they've made, but they've been in the Premier League before where

:31:11.:31:15.

it was pretty patents at this stage they were going and it feels like

:31:16.:31:19.

that again. David Moyes, his biggest strength is getting the team

:31:20.:31:23.

organised. Training was good but getting the team organised when

:31:24.:31:26.

things were going against you just to stop opposition at times,... I

:31:27.:31:34.

He was good at getting a side to stop teams. What has happened? I

:31:35.:31:41.

think there is a lack of interest from the top. I am sure he has been

:31:42.:31:47.

at games, we have not seen the owner at games this season, not on any

:31:48.:31:51.

footage I have seen. Is the interest of all going? I don't know what is

:31:52.:31:56.

going on business-wise, it feels it is just drifting. In terms of what

:31:57.:32:00.

David Moyes can do, I looked at Sunderland, and I did not know how

:32:01.:32:04.

they were trying to play, were they trying to pass? They will not play

:32:05.:32:08.

their way out of trouble. You have to accept it has to be more

:32:09.:32:12.

physical, more direct. Like it was under Allardyce. I would look at

:32:13.:32:19.

Sunderland and I don't see what they are trying to do in terms of where

:32:20.:32:23.

they trying to sit back and play? No, they were trying to pass on

:32:24.:32:28.

occasions which they did not look comfortable with. Would they be

:32:29.:32:30.

better under Allardyce at the moment? Yes, they would, he would

:32:31.:32:35.

not go back. A lot of newspapers suggested that could be an option, I

:32:36.:32:38.

do not believe Sam Allardyce would go back to Sunderland, why would he?

:32:39.:32:43.

He took over last season when they had three points from eight or nine

:32:44.:32:48.

games and performed a miracle and this is a worse situation. For his

:32:49.:32:52.

own professional reputation, I think you would look at that thing, I did

:32:53.:32:56.

it last season but I couldn't do it with this team. We are looking for

:32:57.:32:59.

the next window, David Moyes did not have a lot of time to get players.

:33:00.:33:04.

He brought some in. Yes, I know, but did he necessarily get the signings

:33:05.:33:09.

he wanted? I certainly don't you with that she did. Lack of

:33:10.:33:13.

leadership, you have left the club by then, Kevin. I remember the

:33:14.:33:18.

terrible season, like Duncan Watmore and young players with great

:33:19.:33:22.

potential, playing when baked on each ready in a struggling team, it

:33:23.:33:27.

reminds me of when Michael Proctor was thrown in and Kevin Kyle, it was

:33:28.:33:31.

the same sort of season. It was a difficult season and I remember at

:33:32.:33:35.

times we played well in games and all of the sudden, getting in front

:33:36.:33:42.

in games. It is almost, right, that is it. You cannot see the next five

:33:43.:33:46.

or six minutes through and as soon as you concede, that is it, gone.

:33:47.:33:55.

The involved yesterday. All brought in by David Moyes, on the bench.

:33:56.:34:02.

Manquillo. Love. All brought in by David Moyes. I am not denying that,

:34:03.:34:06.

with Labour targets he wanted? I would probably say no. I would say

:34:07.:34:12.

no. Absolutely not. The biggest surprise of all those signings, I

:34:13.:34:18.

cannot work out with all the money he was paid. How did he increase in

:34:19.:34:23.

value sitting on the bench of Chelsea and the value went up?

:34:24.:34:27.

Michel, I feel sorry for Moyes, he got the job late and did not have

:34:28.:34:34.

time to spend in the window. Sean says, Sunderland created decent

:34:35.:34:38.

chances but they lacked the creativity to create goal-scoring

:34:39.:34:40.

opportunities. John, the team looks so breast of confidence, I cannot

:34:41.:34:44.

see them winning a game and Moyes looks clueless. Ali, I am

:34:45.:34:48.

devastated, so much has changed since last year, we may have made

:34:49.:34:52.

the wrong appointment and if he fails, it may be his last job in

:34:53.:34:57.

football. But at some point, a lot of Sunderland players have to take

:34:58.:34:59.

responsibility because they keep going through managers and not every

:35:00.:35:05.

manager... They have had very experienced managers from Moyes,

:35:06.:35:10.

Allardyce, Dick Advocaat, Gus Poyet. They are not all bad. No, and I

:35:11.:35:16.

think that will be, I take the point about the uncertainty in the

:35:17.:35:20.

boardroom level, but I think there is a feeling of exactly that. That

:35:21.:35:26.

we can't keep on making the manager the ultimate scapegoat for it. That

:35:27.:35:30.

is why I think they will stick with Moyes because I think they have come

:35:31.:35:34.

to that exact same conclusion. We can't keep on the change in the

:35:35.:35:38.

manager and at some point, the players have to take some

:35:39.:35:40.

responsibility. But the players change. You mentioned those players

:35:41.:35:45.

brought in and you go down that list and do you think any of those

:35:46.:35:50.

players will be instrumental in keeping Sunderland up? No, I don't,

:35:51.:35:55.

but the sake Moyes did not have a transfer window to bring players in

:35:56.:36:00.

a slightly inaccurate. It is not! Did he have a long-term plan to

:36:01.:36:04.

bring those in? Were they signings because he needs to get bodies in in

:36:05.:36:09.

such a short space of time? Stephen Pienaar was a cry for help. Yes, he

:36:10.:36:15.

would have never gone to Sunderland. I am convinced he would have gone in

:36:16.:36:19.

in the New Year. He probably had a number... He knows Victor as well.

:36:20.:36:25.

Players he would have known and he has had to get people into do a job

:36:26.:36:29.

for him. From a fan's point of view, what, you will just pay them ?20,000

:36:30.:36:35.

a week and you do not really want them? No, they are not bad players

:36:36.:36:39.

but the point is, if going into the next window he has got better

:36:40.:36:43.

targets long-term, at least they can do the groundwork and speak to the

:36:44.:36:46.

agents and players and people around them and the clubs and get these

:36:47.:36:54.

targets, get them into the club and done and dusted. He didn't have that

:36:55.:36:57.

time to do that. I agree, I think fans will think we are paying them

:36:58.:37:00.

this amount and the players are not being prised away from clubs, they

:37:01.:37:04.

are available for a reason. Pick the yen as I is available for in reason.

:37:05.:37:13.

Love, from Manchester. -- Adam Brown as I. He takes them, having known

:37:14.:37:17.

they are surplus to requirements at their clubs. I think of a target as

:37:18.:37:21.

somebody you think, he is doing a great job for you, we will get him

:37:22.:37:25.

out of the cupboard to do a great job for us. We need bodies. This is

:37:26.:37:32.

what, it is half-time in the Midlands derby, Birmingham zero,

:37:33.:37:36.

Aston Villa one. This January transfer window, Aston Villa and

:37:37.:37:39.

Sunderland are in for the same player. And you look at Norwich and

:37:40.:37:47.

Newcastle. I know. Aston Villa are just on the verge of the playoffs at

:37:48.:37:51.

this time, Aston Villa and sandalwood and there, which would a

:37:52.:37:57.

player go to? That is completely down to the individual, isn't it? It

:37:58.:38:01.

depends how much money is on the table. That is what it is down to.

:38:02.:38:05.

Do you want to give a slightly less sitting on the fence fun -- Anza.

:38:06.:38:09.

Aston Villa, absolutely. Because there will the, if they are in that

:38:10.:38:15.

position, there will be a feel-good factor to Aston Villa and at

:38:16.:38:19.

Sunderland, there has not been anything but do miss season.

:38:20.:38:23.

Personally, I would say Sunderland because I know the potential at that

:38:24.:38:27.

place and even if they came down, the potential is always there and I

:38:28.:38:32.

would say Sunderland. I would agree with Guy Mowbray! But if they are

:38:33.:38:37.

coming to sign me, they are in trouble. That would be very true,

:38:38.:38:40.

goodness me! You are at Old Trafford yesterday,

:38:41.:38:50.

what was the atmosphere like in the second toward the end, was it

:38:51.:38:55.

disgruntled or a recognition they had done all but put the ball in the

:38:56.:39:00.

back of the net? There was disgruntlement it was towards Mark

:39:01.:39:05.

Clattenburg, I thought the atmosphere was good and the fans got

:39:06.:39:09.

behind the team really well. They recognise, everyone can see what is

:39:10.:39:14.

happening and United were having a shot every other minute. They were

:39:15.:39:17.

camped in the barely half and trying everything they could. They unjustly

:39:18.:39:22.

got a man sent off so that gets the crowd behind you more. It was fine,

:39:23.:39:27.

the anger from the crowd was purely at Mark Clattenburg. And they also

:39:28.:39:32.

recognised, and I think it is fair that we say this, but they played OK

:39:33.:39:38.

yesterday. They were good. They could win that Game 29 times out of

:39:39.:39:42.

30. I thought you were going to say 29-0! They were good. And they

:39:43.:39:52.

didn't really. We must say barely defended. Fantastically. I often

:39:53.:39:59.

lead people saying, the art of defending, bemoaning the fact of

:40:00.:40:03.

good old-fashioned defending which has disappeared from the game. They

:40:04.:40:06.

should go and watch Burnley and their centre halves is today and

:40:07.:40:10.

their full-backs, they defended magnificently. Let's do Burnley. It

:40:11.:40:15.

would be grossly unfair not to. They have beaten Everton, Liverpool, they

:40:16.:40:18.

have done at Manchester United, they should arguably have done with

:40:19.:40:22.

Arsenal and the goal should not have stored. A clean sheet against

:40:23.:40:26.

Manchester United and Liverpool and arguably they should have against

:40:27.:40:30.

Arsenal. It is four years today since Sean Dyche took over. The job

:40:31.:40:38.

he has done has been outstanding. Where he has built the club from,

:40:39.:40:40.

his greatest achievement is getting the club promoted the first time.

:40:41.:40:43.

They were on the third lowest budget in the Championship and to get them

:40:44.:40:45.

promote it was incredible. Now, Burnley went down and got promoted

:40:46.:40:50.

and now they are a stable club. He has cemented them for the next ten

:40:51.:40:54.

years of being this club that can come if they don't stay in the

:40:55.:40:57.

Premier league, certainly they will stay at the top of the Championship

:40:58.:41:02.

and go one. His post match interview yesterday, he said, defensively, we

:41:03.:41:06.

were great. Our next thing is to be more comfortable on the ball,

:41:07.:41:10.

particularly in a situation like yesterday for the half of the second

:41:11.:41:14.

half against ten men. Should that be quite easy to develop for top-flight

:41:15.:41:20.

football? I think when you look at Burnley the last time there were in

:41:21.:41:24.

the Premier league, the mentality was to contain. That set throughout

:41:25.:41:27.

the club and it is difficult to flip, being on top in games, to try

:41:28.:41:33.

and... It is a mentality thing? Mentality, but they will work on

:41:34.:41:37.

that in training and breaking down the opposition. The fundamentals of

:41:38.:41:41.

the club and probably of Dyche, it is along the likes of Mourinho,

:41:42.:41:47.

clean sheet, let's stop this clean sheet mentality. We still have

:41:48.:41:51.

quality going forward, they have mooned forward and they have signed

:41:52.:41:55.

Andre Gray who has done great. -- moved. They are bringing in players

:41:56.:41:59.

to make them more expensive and that takes time. The mentality comes from

:42:00.:42:05.

the manager, who has a perfect approach. Philosophical about going

:42:06.:42:08.

down, he worked hard to get them back up. Stephen Defoe was an

:42:09.:42:14.

inspired signing. He has the mentality to play for Burnley. I

:42:15.:42:18.

played with Scott Arfield at Huddersfield and he gets released

:42:19.:42:21.

from Huddersfield and he was trying to get a club and I knew he had the

:42:22.:42:25.

talent, really talented player. You are thinking, what is going to

:42:26.:42:29.

happen with this boy? He went on trial at Burnley and they realised

:42:30.:42:33.

he could do the job. And his talent has taken over. He is a prime

:42:34.:42:37.

example, that is down to great management, he got the best out of

:42:38.:42:43.

him and also George Boyd. And Dean Marney, another one I played with.

:42:44.:42:47.

These players, it you think, good players, but it is down to the

:42:48.:42:51.

manager and how he has got them on the training ground and got them

:42:52.:42:54.

right. It is testament to him. Of course, the players as well. They

:42:55.:42:59.

have good players and the manager has brought out the best. Adam says,

:43:00.:43:04.

people criticise United, Heaton was fantastic for Burnley. Most teams

:43:05.:43:09.

would have struggled to score -- the school. Should United fans be

:43:10.:43:12.

concerned about Mourinho? Yes, I think so. The club hierarchy should

:43:13.:43:18.

be, it is not a good look to have your manager scrabbling around

:43:19.:43:21.

trying to find a seat in the stands for the second half. They cannot

:43:22.:43:27.

influence too much in the technical area but maybe he could have

:43:28.:43:30.

affected changes more quickly and more effectively than sending down

:43:31.:43:35.

notes. He will now get a stadium ban, no doubt. The circus around

:43:36.:43:39.

that, remember what happened when he watched the Stoke came from a nearby

:43:40.:43:44.

hotel? I just don't think it creates a good atmosphere. Body language.

:43:45.:43:50.

We have to end it here and me and Kevin will have a hug, we do like

:43:51.:43:54.

each other! I'll be back for Match

:43:55.:43:55.

of the Day 2 tonight,

:43:56.:43:58.

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