Browse content similar to Scotland and Us (Look North Special). Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Scotland is about to decide if it wants to be an independent country. | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
We've heard all the arguments north of the border. | :00:09. | :00:10. | |
What will Scotland's big decision mean for its neighbours | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
Good evening and welcome to a special Look North | :00:16. | :00:25. | |
Just two miles from Scotland, but nobody living here has | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
a vote in this month's independence referendum. | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
People do have plenty of questions about how life on this | :00:34. | :00:41. | |
side of the border will change and in the next 40 minutes we will | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
Will there be passport checks at Newcastle | :00:46. | :00:49. | |
and Carlisle railway stations as one government minister has suggested? | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
Will Northeast companies relocate to Scotland to take advantages of | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
Might an independent Scotland offer this part of the world a better deal | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
We've got a panel of yes and no campaigners | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
and an audience from right across Cumbria and the north`east, | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
Plus analysis from Dr Angus Armstrong an expert on the dconomic | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
consequences of independencd both for Scotland and the rest of the UK. | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
You can have your say throughout the show on twitter using | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
For centuries Scotland and Dngland were sworn enemies with the borders | :01:19. | :01:26. | |
The Dukes of Northumberland were very much in the thick of it | :01:27. | :01:35. | |
We arrived in Northumberland in 1309 and spent the next 300 years | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
fighting the Scots and trying to keep the borders safe and pdaceful. | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
My wife and I live in the c`stle and there are many other castles | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
in Northumberland which are a testimony to thd warfare | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
These days castles like Alnwick are visitor attractions, | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
yet there's still a rivalry between our region and Scotland | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
fought not with swords and shields but with jobs and investment. | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
Some believe we're at risk of becoming | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
the poor relations to our Scottish neighbours who enjoy higher public | :02:11. | :02:13. | |
spending as well as the bendfits of free prescriptions, personal | :02:14. | :02:15. | |
If Scotland does vote to become fully independent, | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
It had got to the stage where going to the bathroom | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
and getting back to my chair was getting to be a bit of an adventure, | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
I was looking at probably, H would have thought, weeks of life. | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
Brian's life was saved by a lung transplant, an operation he | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
But as he lives in Northumbdrland close to the border he gets checkups | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
He's a cross`border patient who worries things could change with | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
We don't want people from our side having to travel any | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
If we have independence, oh, we can't do that | :02:59. | :03:06. | |
because you're the far side of the river, that's just shocking. | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
But the NHS is just one of a series of uncertainties that | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
What currency would an independent Scotland use? | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
How will the national debt be divided up | :03:20. | :03:21. | |
And what would happen at a place like this? | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
This bridge across the Tweed divides England and Northumberland | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
down there from Scotland just ahead of me over there. | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
But if there's a yes vote, to get across this bridge would I | :03:33. | :03:35. | |
There has been a lot of scaremongering recently | :03:36. | :03:44. | |
about passports, border controls and about having some sort of border | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
There are a number of challdnges for the north`east in terms | :03:49. | :03:56. | |
Patients who enjoy health provision who live on the English sidd of the | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
border clearly that will be an issue that will need to be worked out | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
While an independent Scotland would cut taxes for big companies, | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
what will it mean for small firms like this Carlisle bakery? | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
I will be very disappointed from a business point of vidw | :04:16. | :04:18. | |
From a business point of view it could only incre`se | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
They haven't given a satisf`ctory answer to the currency issud, which | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
I have staff living in Engl`nd and working in Scotland. | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
I have staff living in Scotland and working in England. | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
So are businesses on our side of the border right to be worried? | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
If the Scots lower corporathon tax down to 3%, | :04:43. | :04:45. | |
that will have a profound ilpact on businesses in the north`dast | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
Air passenger duty, the Scottish government had committed thdmselves | :04:49. | :04:51. | |
They want to abolish it within 3`5 years. | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
That will have a profound ilpact on Newcastle airport. | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
I am your platoon sergeant, number three platoon. | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
But north`east playwright Pdter Mortimer thinks an independdnt | :05:03. | :05:05. | |
Scotland would write its own success story and we might be left behind. | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
Scotland will be unchained if it becomes independent. | :05:12. | :05:13. | |
I think it'll be a more pleasant place to live and I | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
think we'll become the marginalised part of England. | :05:19. | :05:20. | |
I will be quite happy if they move the border down here | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
Ah, we may have to have a referendum down here for that | :05:24. | :05:31. | |
Let's chew some of those issues over with our panel. | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
Christine Grahame, you're an MSP SNP, so we know your | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
But they'll pay the price south of the border. | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
You'll get your freedom and you're going to come after | :05:44. | :05:45. | |
our businesses, after our ahrport, you're going to take it all. | :05:46. | :05:48. | |
I think the important thing about reducing corporation tax and getting | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
rid of the air travel duty hs that you stimulate the economy and create | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
No, there's absolutely nothhng to stop the rest | :05:56. | :06:04. | |
If we're successful in boosting our economy instead of just putting | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
cuts all over the place which are promised by Conservative and Labour | :06:10. | :06:12. | |
if they win the next election, both of them, then we'll stimulate our | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
economy, create work for these young people that you | :06:16. | :06:17. | |
mentioned who don't get jobs on zero hour contracts, with the minimum | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
There's nothing to stop the rest of the UK doing it. | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
In fact, it would stimulate the North of England and give it | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
Craig Johnston, you're an RMT official and work | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
Why are you in favour of Scottish independence? | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
Well, I think both sides of the border get a really rum deal from | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
In terms of where England m`y lose out to Scotland, | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
that's in England's own hands in terms of the legislation and | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
Perhaps we should be following some of the things that | :06:50. | :06:55. | |
the Scottish Parliament havd done like on prescription charges, | :06:56. | :06:57. | |
Those are the sort of things I think politicians need | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
to connect with in the commtnities in the North of England | :07:03. | :07:04. | |
like they've managed to connect with communities in Scotland. | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
Let's turn to the people who don't want to see a break`up of the union. | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
John Stevenson, you're the Conservative MP for Carlisle. | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
You may be in favour of the union, but you can't say we'll pay any | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
price if Scotland became independdnt? | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
I think the union has been ` hugely successful, economic organisation | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
I think there's huge risks for Scotland going independdnt. | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
I think they'll forget they'll then be in competition with Engl`nd and I | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
think you may find that economically not a lot of businesses | :07:34. | :07:35. | |
on the Scottish side decide they want to relocate. | :07:36. | :07:37. | |
A good example is the Royal Bank of Scotland, Standard Life. | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
You've also got to remember back in 2008 it was | :07:41. | :07:42. | |
the fact that we were part of a United Kingdom, a large enthty, that | :07:43. | :07:46. | |
What you're suggesting is good news for your constituents. | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
They might have Scottish businesses coming into Carlhsle | :07:50. | :07:51. | |
No, I think on the border particularly we lose | :07:52. | :07:54. | |
I think the real danger of an independent Scotland hs you | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
start to see businesses not investing on either side | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
Labour often talk about the North being neglected from Westminster. | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
Couldn't Scotland be a powerful partner for the North, an ally? | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
You want to get high`speed rail talk to Scotland. | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
I think what we've been proposing is a combined authority | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
We do want to see further devolution to the area. | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
But the one thing that we'rd not calling for is independence. | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
I think the one thing that's missed out of all of this argument is | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
the problem isn't England and it isn't Scotland. | :08:32. | :08:33. | |
What we've got to face as a United Kingdom is globalisation | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
The globalisation of the economy which is big | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
and we've got to be able to face up to it and we're going to be better | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
By splintering off a population of five million versus | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
We're better off together to face the problems of the world. | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
Christine, let's talk about one of the issues raised in that film. | :08:51. | :08:53. | |
Can you reassure Brian, that patient, has he just bdcome | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
Do you care about what happdns to him and his health service? | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
We've a lot in common with the working folk in England and half | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
But it happens already that in the Borders people come over here | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
The taxpayers are eventuallx feeding it all in. | :09:11. | :09:18. | |
There will be two different sets of taxpayers. | :09:19. | :09:20. | |
We're taxpayers as well, but the Scottish Parliament has | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
a fixed budget and these decisions and choices that were referred to | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
where we've no prescription charges, free personal care for our dlderly. | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
If they need their cardigan buttoned or a tin opened for them at home, | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
Tuition fees, our young people don't pay ?9,0 0. | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
These were choices made in the interest of the Scottish people | :09:42. | :09:43. | |
Can you absolutely guaranted nobody will face a border check | :09:44. | :09:46. | |
I am trying to take this seriously, right? | :09:47. | :09:52. | |
We've a common travel area `t the moment between Eire and the North | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
We're part of that, we'll still be a common travel area. | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
There won't be borders checks and what a daft idea. | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
Put folk in the fields with the sheep? | :10:04. | :10:09. | |
People have accused the no side of scaremongering on borders. | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
Well, on the borders I suspect you're correct. | :10:17. | :10:18. | |
But I think there's a real danger that economically Scotland will | :10:19. | :10:21. | |
deteriorate if they aren't part of the United Kingdom and whll be | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
They presuppose they'll havd a very successful economy | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
and continue to afford all these luxuries as they see it. | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
I think that's a real risk for Scotland. | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
But there's a knock`on effect into this part of the world as wdll. | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
I think it'll be detrimental for Scotland to be independdnt. | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
Excuse me, you called free prescriptions a luxury. | :10:44. | :10:45. | |
Whether people get a pink phll in hospital or a pink pill | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
at home they shouldn't be p`ying for that pink pill. | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
We'll have to leave the deb`te on free prescription charges there | :10:54. | :10:55. | |
People travel to Newcastle because they can't get the prescriptions | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
We'll have to leave that thdre for the moment. | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
Let's hear from the business side of things with the people | :11:06. | :11:08. | |
Yes, plenty of local representatives here in the | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
audience tonight and that doesn t mean people just from England. | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
We've with us two Berwick btsiness owners Gavin Jones and wife Gail. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
What sort of concerns do you have over this | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
whole debate of independencd for you as a business person? | :11:23. | :11:37. | |
half of our customers are from Scotland. `` we run a retail shop. | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
10% of our online customers are from Scotland. Our biggest concern is | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
currency. Currently, we accdpt the ?20 Scottish note, worth ?20 | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
sterling. It cost us nothing more at the bank to exchange it. Wh`t if | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
this was worth ?15 or ?25? That will cost us hassle and the only people | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
that make anything out of that are the banks. For you as a small | :12:03. | :12:05. | |
business, the transaction fdes will be hard to absolve. It will add | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
complexity for no additional revenue. We may even get fewer | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
customers, cos if there are broader issues, where people have to | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
introduce passports, they m`y not come to Berwick to shop. In go to | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
Kelso, on the other side of the border. They say that it will all be | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
fine and we will be able to have the same sort of trade. That wotld be | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
good but do not want to takd that risk. Do they have a Christdl | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
Boeljon? Thank you very much indeed. `` crystal ball. Pamela is from | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
County Durham, who works at the large`scale employer. What concerns | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
do you have? At the moment, you export to 50 countries. We dxport a | :12:58. | :13:06. | |
lot. Scotland makes up 1.5% of our business, so it does not make much | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
difference to us. But it will be a burden to the economy on thd whole, | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
which will have an impact in terms of taxes. Would you be tempted to | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
move north of the border, as a big employer? The SNP would likd to have | :13:19. | :13:25. | |
a 3% cut in corporate tax, which could be tempting for a big company. | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
There are lots of attractivd schemes around Europe. We are very | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
passionate about where we are in 20 Durham. But the government here are | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
doing a lot of good things `s well. There is a lot of benefit, research | :13:39. | :13:47. | |
and development tax relief, and a relatively low tax rate anyway. We | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
would not be moving. If I c`n go to Angus Armstrong, Dr Angus Armstrong, | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
I want you to tell us your post Good evening. I am the Director of | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
macro economic research Abbdy National Institute of econolic and | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
social research search, an independent research body. `` social | :14:07. | :14:11. | |
research. Tell us, what happens when an international border to trade is | :14:12. | :14:19. | |
created? In general terms, the Borders tends to reduce the amount | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
of trade between two countrhes. If you look at Canada in the United | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
States, the amount of trade between those countries, the statistical | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
studies have found that it hs less than predicted, given the dhstance. | :14:32. | :14:37. | |
Although there are is no war or physical border, it is things like | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
differences in Revelation which over time start to a road. Historically, | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
we have found across the world, where you have two different | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
political states, there is less cross`border trade of an otherwise. | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
Jeremy Middleton is a north`east businessman. We heard from Pamela a | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
moment ago. For companies of her size, this is not a problem because | :15:04. | :15:07. | |
it is just exporting to another country. And they can absorb that. | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
Some companies will be able to. But I'll worry about jobs more than | :15:12. | :15:18. | |
anything else. If there are different tax rates, differdnt | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
levels of VAT, that could bd different employment costs `nd a | :15:22. | :15:24. | |
different exchange rates. That creates uncertainty. If you create | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
uncertainty, you will have less investment. There is less investment | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
now because of uncertainty `nd will be even unless afterwards, because | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
of the complexity of this. H think it is worth saying that if, as Alex | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
Salmond has suggested, Scotland is wanting to take an aggressive | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
competitive position to try to attract businesses, the rest of the | :15:47. | :15:49. | |
UK is not going to sit therd and do nothing. We will react becatse those | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
of us who live in the North of England are going to say, wd must | :15:54. | :15:55. | |
have similar economic powers to be have similar economic powers to be | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
able to compensate. We will get onto that later. Apart from the lawyers | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
and the politicians, they are the two winners out of this. Th`nk you | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
very much, Jeremy. At the moment, the polls suggest that therd will be | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
a no vote in the referendum but if that happens, it does not mdan there | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
will be no change. Far from it. The bull in the north`east may be | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
impacted upon even further. Mark Denton has been finding out. | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
My hip and my pelvis is bre`king up. On top of that, I have to p`y this | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
bedroom tax. It costs ?650 ` year. The government calls it a spare room | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
subsidy at critics college to the bedroom tax. Either way, Peter, who | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
is disabled, is paying it. From next year, even if they say no to | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
independence, people in Scotland will not have to. I am disgtsted | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
about it because it is like one person is paying it and another | :16:53. | :16:55. | |
person is not. It will not be a United Kingdom at all because if it | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
was united, it would be one price. It must break eight code of human | :17:00. | :17:09. | |
rights. `` a code. Goodness knows what he would have made of ht. The | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
great political reformer, E`rl Grey, looking down on Newcastle. He | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
widened the voting franchisd, hitting the first tentative steps | :17:20. | :17:22. | |
towards making Britain more equal. But it seems that some of us are | :17:23. | :17:28. | |
still more equal than others. Public spending in the north`east hs ? ,490 | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
per head. It is ?10,152 per head in Scotland. While the spending gap | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
remains, a raft of new powers are on their way to Scotland come dven if | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
there is a no vote. Scrapping the bedroom tax is one of the examples, | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
but there are others. New t`xes over welfare, new income tax powdrs. In | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
no vote does not mean no ch`nge Recently, all the main political | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
parties have committed themselves to getting Scotland more powers if it | :18:00. | :18:05. | |
is a no vote. Variations in income tax, being able to set land duty, | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
stamp duty. One view would be that it is a no vote, devolution max is | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
the best possible option for Scotland. Looking at it frol another | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
perspective, it might be thd worst option for the north`east and | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
Cumbria. On top of that, Scotland also has lower unemployment than the | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
north`east. But this leading businessmen does not think we are | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
getting a raw deal. Bernie Shepherd is going to transform 160 acres of | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
land near Dunfermline into houses and shops, one of many cross`border | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
projects for his firm going ahead regardless of the referendul. We | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
will still be doing business with them and still looking to bd friends | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
with Scotland. We are near Ddinburgh and lock nut in, put it that way. `` | :18:54. | :19:01. | |
near Edinburgh and London. The Duke of Northumberland surveys is a | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
states, including part of Scotland. But he does not seed two undqual | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
places but one area with a shared history. Personally, I'd cross the | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
border practically everyday from one part of the estate to anothdr. And I | :19:15. | :19:21. | |
see no difference between somebody living on one side and the other. I | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
think it is a remarkably integrated area. But any form of bound`ry | :19:25. | :19:30. | |
creates difficulty. I think it has worked pretty well for a long time. | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
If it ain't broke, don't fix it But even if there is a no vote, some | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
fear that the region has a growing problem that simply will not go | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
away. The economic gap that we Scotland and us. The gap has to be | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
narrowed. `` between Scotland and us. The powers that Scotland make | :19:52. | :19:57. | |
have to be replicated in thd North of England because there is a very | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
serious risk that the north`east and Cumbria would get left behind. Let's | :20:01. | :20:06. | |
put this to the panel. Phil Wilson, the political parties are f`lling | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
over themselves. The balancd is just going to get worse between these | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
North of England and Scotland. It could possibly happen. We h`ve | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
spoken about air passenger duty and corporation tax. If you are going to | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
cut taxes, how do you pay for welfare benefits? But it wotld be | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
nice to have the freedom to do it. Scotland will get these freddoms. A | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
sickly, what I was disappointed with was when the redevelopment `gency | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
benefit. I do not want to dwell on benefit. I do not want to dwell on | :20:40. | :20:43. | |
that, I want to dwell on thd future. Will accept that more powers are | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
coming to Scotland but thosd powers are not coming here. That's right. I | :20:48. | :20:55. | |
have raised the idea around variations regionally in passenger | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
duty. It does not just affect Newcastle airport, but Durh`m | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
airport as well. These are things we should be looking at. Whethdr you | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
need independence to achievd it I do not think so. Can we call it the | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
UK any more when there are such bass differences? You cannot pay certain | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
taxes north of the border and you get free prescriptions, is ht a UK? | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
I think the key question is, do you believe in devolution. I've | :21:22. | :21:26. | |
fundamentally believe in devolution, so yes, further powers to Scotland, | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
I am more than happy with that. However, I think the time h`s come | :21:31. | :21:34. | |
where England has two also look at devolution. I think there is a | :21:35. | :21:37. | |
substantial deficit they ard and believe that both parties in | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
parliament have to start looking at the counties and cities of Dngland | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
and fiscal devolution to thdm. You do not disagree with that, Craig | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
Johnson. How does an independent Scotland helped you achieve that? It | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
was interesting point made the regional development agencids. I | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
think that we need a devolvdd government for the North of England | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
is to balance out what has happened north of the border. To givd us a | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
priority, also, instead of London and the south`east. When we talk | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
about the United Kingdom, wd need strategic investment and pl`nning in | :22:12. | :22:13. | |
this area and we have not got it because we do not have the regional | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
assembly. Christian Graham, the Northern tax players seem to get a | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
raw deal. Some people might say good riddance to Scotland. Hn the | :22:25. | :22:28. | |
last 30 years, Scotland has contributed more to the UK budget | :22:29. | :22:32. | |
and we have had back, withott oil revenue. Let me deal with their stop | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
Mike but we are getting less per head! But the revolution thhng is | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
news to me. Up in Scotland, there is only one question on the ballot | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
paper. Should Scotland be an independent country? Devolution is | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
not on the ballot paper bec`use David Cameron did not want ht on | :22:48. | :22:51. | |
there. What I say to the people in the North of England, but wdre of | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
false promises. `` be wary of false promises. It is not on the ballot | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
paper, devolution. Excuse md. And it was not on the ballot paper in the | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
North of England. In 1979, on the eve of the poll for a Scotthsh | :23:12. | :23:15. | |
we will discuss more of these issues we will discuss more of these issues | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
in a moment. Strong views on whether we are getting a fair deal. But | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
people will notice the diffdrences most of all on the border. @nd there | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
are plenty of those people hn the audience. | :23:32. | :23:33. | |
I think it is a good point to ask for a show of hands from evdrybody | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
here. Those of us who live hn England, do you feel aggrieved or | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
disadvantaged compared to your Scottish neighbours? Show your hands | :23:43. | :23:51. | |
if you feel that way. OK. And if anybody has a personal experience, | :23:52. | :23:54. | |
perhaps of the tuition fee situation, so care, prescription | :23:55. | :24:02. | |
charges? `` personal care. Xes, the girl on the side. I am from Wales | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
and there should be going to university next year. Bandah will | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
have to pay ?9,000 more than those that live two miles away. I have | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
friends that go to the Acaddmy, that do not have to pay that. And they | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
will not get in debt becausd of where they live. It is | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
geographically ridiculous. Ht is one issue affecting the younger part of | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
our audience. Anybody here who feels strongly about ascription charges? I | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
have experienced a difference in attitudes towards people who used to | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
go across the border to the General Hospital from Berwick. It h`s become | :24:44. | :24:46. | |
more difficult to access those facilities. Especially dent`l care, | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
which is poorly served in Bdrwick. If there is a border crossing, I | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
think it would be worse than it is now. Thank you for those ophnions. | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
Turning to Alexis, the headteacher of Berwick Academy. Picking up on a | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
previous point, you are in `n awkward position because yotr pupils | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
come from both sides of the border. You have to advise them on which | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
university to go to. Maybe ht is difficult for you, because some will | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
come out with debt and others will not. We do not have a huge number of | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
students who come across thd border, about 5%. It is probably sililar in | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
the other direction. A lot of our catchment is to the south. But what | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
was noticeable this year, when students were applying for | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
university, actually, it was harder for our Scottish students to find a | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
place at a Scottish univershty because there were limited numbers | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
for Scottish tunes. So when we came to the clearing system, one of the | :25:49. | :25:49. | |
things that we picked up quhte things that we picked up quhte | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
quickly was that the courses were closed for clearing for Scottish | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
tunes but Scottish universities were still accepting English tunds. `` | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
Scottish students. And they are accepting English tunes on lower | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
grades. You can see that thdre is an economic reason why the Scottish | :26:12. | :26:13. | |
universities are keen to have fee`paying students. Fee`paxing | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
students from England are ctrrently subsidising the education sxstem | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
that is free to Scottish sttdents. Whether that will continue hn a free | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
Scotland only remains to be seen. One of many questions. Phil Johnson | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
is the editor of the Berwick Advertiser. You have a parthcular | :26:35. | :26:36. | |
feel for the strength of fedling in the town. I think there is ` | :26:37. | :26:43. | |
perception in Berwick at thd moment that the town gets a raw de`l. I am | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
not so sure that that is because we are so close to Scotland. I think it | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
is more to do with the powers that we have in Northumberland at the | :26:54. | :26:56. | |
moment. Berwick had its own Borough Council until five years ago and | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
that has now moved down to Northumberland. A lot of thd | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
decisions made which affect Berwick were made down in Morpeth, `nd there | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
is a feeling in Berwick that we get a raw deal as a result. APPLAUSE. | :27:10. | :27:18. | |
If I can bring in Joe Perry from the Green Party. She is a Cumbrhan `` | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
she has a Cumbrian perspecthve. You are a fan of the way that Scotland | :27:25. | :27:31. | |
hands handles many things two yes. Absolutely. They have a progressive | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
policy on simple things likd banning fluoride from the water and a good | :27:37. | :27:38. | |
dental health care system for children. Not wanting to spdnd money | :27:39. | :27:50. | |
on Trident, they have a mord peaceable foreign policy, not that | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
they are in charge, but thex have a more peaceable perspective. And can | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
see many reasons why people in Cumbria and in the northern parts of | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
Northumberland would want of the border moved further south hf | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
Scotland get more powers. The issue is that we are very badly treated by | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
the government in London. Wd are. And next door to you, we have a | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
local businessman. Brian, if Scotland is doing things so well, | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
getting things right, do yot think that the border should be moved | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
south? Would you like to be included in Scotland? It is a very dhfficult | :28:29. | :28:33. | |
question because I have dond a bit of research from my customers, and I | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
find that people would like to be in Scotland if it was going to stay in | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
the UK, and if it becomes independent, they would rather stay | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
in Berwick. With all of the publicity that Berwick has had | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
would like to carry that on and try would like to carry that on and try | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
to get Berwick on the map, because we have been ignored by Westminster. | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
I had an interview recently with Alan Beith and asked him wh`t he had | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
done with the town since he has been in power, and he struggles to | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
actually come up with anythhng. I feel that we are out on a lhmb. That | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
is a good local voice. I want to bring Dr Angus Armstrong in again. | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
You have looked at the economic side of things. Too many English people, | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
it seems that Scotland has got it good. Can they afford to deliver on | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
these benefits? Scotland has had higher public spending than the rest | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
of the UK for many years so they have had their advantage. The big | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
question is if it votes yes, then it is going to have to balance its own | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
books. Most independent resdarchers, the IFS, fiscal policy Scotland | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
they estimated that Scotland will be running a deficit, so spendhng more | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
than the tax take, by the end of independence. They have to balance | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
the books, so the interesting questions have yet to be answered. | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
And think we need to that to the SNP. | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
Christine Grahame, the land of milk and honey at the moment, but once | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
independence comes, it will not be so good. Who said we abolished the | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
bedroom tax? It has not been abolished. We did not have the power | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
to do it but the Scottish government set up a fund to pay over to the | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
local authorities of people would not have to keep their housds. But | :30:18. | :30:24. | |
that man says that you would not be able to afford it. Scotland can | :30:25. | :30:28. | |
afford it, even with the violent gas. Lagasse, ?20 billion is | :30:29. | :30:35. | |
predicted over the next 20 xears. That is a lot sloshing around. I | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
know there is a lot of disptte. There is not. Even Sir Ian Wood in | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
2012 said that there was ?26 billion. He said he was not being | :30:45. | :30:46. | |
political. Let's leave it there So, the Scottish Parliament looks | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
as if it'll get more power inevitably, regardless | :30:51. | :30:53. | |
of the results of the referdndum. You might see that | :30:54. | :30:54. | |
as an opportunity, But is it time | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
for the north`east and Cumbria to In 2004, the north`east had | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
its own referendum. It was offered a regional | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
assembly by John Prescott. The voters told him | :31:06. | :31:07. | |
where to get off. But the man who chaired | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
the yes campaign believes the time is right for regional government | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
and the need is even strongdr now. I think in a sense many | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
of the issues the referendul on a north`east assembly was | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
intended to address are still here. The north`east is a region with | :31:21. | :31:23. | |
a relatively weak voice It's still a region with social | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
and economic conditions which are So I think that ten years | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
on we're no further forward in terms In some key respects we've | :31:33. | :31:40. | |
probably taken steps backwards. That seems worrying, | :31:41. | :31:44. | |
a step backward. Let's go to Jeremy Middleton, | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
north`east businessman. Was it a mistake ten years `go that | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
we rejected a regional asselbly No, I think the mistake was to | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
focus on the politics of it. The vast majority | :31:56. | :31:59. | |
of people aren't interested in new, The issue is what the infludnce | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
of the north`east is Do we have enough investment | :32:02. | :32:09. | |
in our infrastructure? Are we in a position to attract | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
inward investors and so on? I hope Scotland stays in thd | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
United Kingdom. I think we need to work with | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
Scotland so that together we're trying to | :32:25. | :32:26. | |
attract business into the north`east What we don't want to do is start | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
competing with each other and creating barriers to tr`de | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
because, frankly, There's no demand from the people | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
of the north`east for it. Hilton Dawson, the North East Party, | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
you'd be in favour But do people want new | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
political systems? We've talked for a while about | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
how good things are in Scotland The reasons why things are better in | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
Scotland, why they have mord money, why they have better policids, | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
is because of politics, so let's What we do need in this part | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
of the world is equality, we need investment in public | :33:03. | :33:09. | |
services, we need investment to bring new businesses, new jobs here, | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
and we need democracy. However, in favour of a reghonal | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
assembly 78% didn't want it. And about that same proporthon | :33:18. | :33:25. | |
in Wales in 1979 said exactly 18 years later the people of Wales | :33:26. | :33:27. | |
changed their minds. It's perfectly open | :33:28. | :33:33. | |
for the people in the north`east of England to change their linds, | :33:34. | :33:36. | |
particularly hearing the arguments we've had today and seeing | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
the example of what devoluthon has There's nobody here arguing | :33:41. | :33:43. | |
for less devolution. We need to hear from Jill Pdrry | :33:44. | :33:50. | |
because from the Cumbrian point You could have the base | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
in Newcastle, Liverpool, who knows? Absolutely, wherever the base is | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
it's going to be in a big chty and But I think the thing | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
a regional government of sole kind would do, both the politici`ns | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
on the no side of the debatd were talking about globalisation, | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
building a strong global economy. Globalisation doesn't help | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
the ordinary person. What the ordinary people benefit | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
from is strong local economhes. With local businesses, | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
local jobs and local investlent That's what we could have if we had | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
a regional government electdd by proportional representathon | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
fighting for local people. Angus Armstrong, | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
obviously the call for regional government is getting louder because | :34:39. | :34:40. | |
of this whole Scottish debate. Is it realistic that we | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
can expect more powers? I think the whole Scottish debate | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
has opened up this question. For the last 300 years | :34:49. | :34:50. | |
the UK has been the most centralised Scotland has spending which is | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
devolved, but not the incomd side. It doesn't raise its own taxes, | :34:56. | :35:02. | |
or not very much. For the rest | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
of the UK the big question hs can you have true devolution if Scotland | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
says no without actually having Scotland is only 10% of the | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
United Kingdom. You need to deal with | :35:11. | :35:19. | |
the other 90% and I think what we're hearing tonight is much mord | :35:20. | :35:22. | |
of an expression that there's a Let's hear from our yes | :35:23. | :35:24. | |
and no campaigners on the p`nel Craig Johnston, I know you're | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
a big fan of the idea of regional That's not going to make | :35:30. | :35:32. | |
any difference, is it? I think what they want are | :35:33. | :35:37. | |
politicians who are going I think the problem that we have, | :35:38. | :35:39. | |
I hope Scotland vote yes, they take the opportunity to take control | :35:40. | :35:46. | |
of their own affairs, but whatever happens on the 18th of Septdmber | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
the reality of it is the North of England, the North East, North West, | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
Yorkshire as well, is to cole together and start arguing | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
for proper, devolved, regional government, democratically dlected | :36:01. | :36:02. | |
with real powers, not the phg in a poke assembly that was offered to us | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
by John Prescott in the north`east. John Stevenson, you're not | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
in favour of regional government but if you dribble a few powers to | :36:11. | :36:12. | |
local councils, all these local enterprise partnerships, th`t's not | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
going to make the differencd to I'm for fundamental reform | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
in England in local governmdnt. For example in Cumbria we h`ve seven | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
councils, 400 councillors But Cumbria County Council hsn't | :36:24. | :36:25. | |
going to be able to compete with the No, but you can have devolution | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
in England in a different w`y. You've got to see cities | :36:33. | :36:36. | |
and counties in England, so the big cities will get certain | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
powers because they've cert`in issues and requirements, and | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
the counties in a similar f`shion. I sit on the local government select | :36:42. | :36:43. | |
committee and we've been looking You've not only got to devolve | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
spending powers, you've also got I think it's one | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
of the big problems with thd present Scottish Parliamentary systdm in | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
that they've got to have both the tax`raising powers as well `s the | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
spending powers and align the two. You're also | :36:59. | :37:01. | |
against regional government, but It could be, but you could `rgue it | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
was a democratic deficit, btt the big thing for people out there | :37:05. | :37:12. | |
who have to go to work everx day is You can't wish away globalisation | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
and I think the 35,000 people in the north`east who work for Nissan | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
would say that globalisation does The hundreds and thousands of people | :37:22. | :37:23. | |
who are going to work for Hhtachi on my patch would say there ard some | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
good things about globalisation Nobody is wishing that away, | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
but we need structures. The one thing that happened in that | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
referendum about ten years `go when they voted against the regional | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
assembly, they voted for a tnity Hitachi, the big economic | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
development we've got them now speaking up for the whole of County | :37:45. | :37:53. | |
Durham, it has done a great deal. We can't even get a station | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
at Gilsland. That's the reality | :37:59. | :38:00. | |
of what we're looking at. No`one is batting for the North | :38:01. | :38:02. | |
of England. People believe there's a deficit | :38:03. | :38:06. | |
here and what we need is solebody Christine Grahame, if you gdt | :38:07. | :38:09. | |
your wish, by the end of thd month you could be on the way to becoming | :38:10. | :38:16. | |
a foreigner in this country. I hope not, I am going to | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
my son's wedding four days before What will be your parting mdssage | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
to the North of England? I think independence, whatever | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
happens, will be the liberation It's to look at how London`centric | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
policies penalise everybody the further they are away | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
from that centre whether it's interest rates, overheated house | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
prices, jobs, whatever it is. We've so much | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
in common with the North of England As you'll find out, you can't | :38:49. | :38:51. | |
always pay for these things. Well, | :38:52. | :38:58. | |
you don't need to have Triddnt for a start, spend billions on Trhdent and | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
go into illegal wars in Irap and cause a bigger mess in international | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
affairs than you ever did bdfore. Look at the way money has | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
been spent and it could havd That's it from us, | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
but don't forget you can continue There will be more | :39:11. | :39:16. | |
on this whole debate on BBC local I think it's clear none of ts knows | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
how the referendum is going to go. As we've heard tonight whichever | :39:24. | :39:32. | |
way, it's going to have a big impact on us here in the | :39:33. | :39:34. | |
North East and Cumbria. From Richard and myself | :39:35. | :39:38. | |
and everybody here at the M`ltings in Berwick, | :39:39. | :39:41. | |
thanks for watching and good night. | :39:42. | :39:46. |