The Alternative 80s Music for Misfits: The Story of Indie


The Alternative 80s

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This programme contains very strong language

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Starting in the 1970s, a countercultural movement

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would change the way music was made, forever.

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From grass-roots beginnings in the backwaters of Britain,

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a new DIY approach to music-making would give rise to a whole new genre.

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Not just a sound, but an attitude and an ethos.

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This is indie.

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We'll discover why it spoke so perfectly to a generation

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and reveal how this music for misfits eventually came of age.

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In the late 1970s there was an explosion of

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independent record labels in Britain.

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Set-up by driven music obsessives,

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these amateur businessmen released records because no-one else would.

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In this episode we look at the 1980s, when some of these

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independent labels begin serious businesses, even rivalling the majors.

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It was also the decade in which indie became a genre of music,

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with its own sound, fashion and culture.

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This is the rise of indie.

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SONG: Big Apple by Kajagoogoo

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# See my face You know where I've been

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# Walking in jungle... #

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By the early 1980s, Britain's charts were alive with huge-selling pop acts.

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But they weren't for everyone.

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I suppose you've got to reference the times in the mid-80s when I was

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a teenager. You know, you had all that crafted pop and everything...

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Bizarrely, there was... So much pop music felt so aspirational,

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and that aspiration that was mirrored in shiny '80s pop music

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was such an anathema to the era and place I was growing up in.

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# Give me back my heart

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# That's all I had to give you... #

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We now see the '80s through this slightly rosy lens of nostalgia.

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And nostalgia is a form of curation.

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You cut out the bits you don't like.

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You cut out all the crap bits.

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# Sleep! #

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You had Madonna and Prince, who were interesting.

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# Wave your hands...#

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Everything else that you got or you were going to get on Radio One

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or Top Of The Pops was just crap.

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# Sneeze! Achoo! Achoo! Achoo! Go for a walk... #

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It was just absolute rubbish.

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'At number five, The Reflex, Duran Duran.

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'At four, You Take Me Up, the Thompson Twins.

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'This week's number three, I Want To Break Free by Queen.

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'At number two, Phil Collins, Against All Odds.

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'And this week's number one, the sixth week

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'for Lionel Richie and Hello.'

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So that was one side of the '80s.

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There was an alternative.

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Indie was thriving, if rarely troubling the mainstream pop charts.

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But one band from the scene was about to stage an intervention.

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They would seduce the world with a style, a sound and an attitude that

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felt completely different and yet remained true to their indie roots.

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# I would go out tonight

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# But I haven't got a stitch to wear

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# This man said it's gruesome

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# That someone so handsome Should care... #

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They were so evocative.

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Morrissey's voice and his lyrics are so evocative

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of an era and of a place.

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# This charming man... #

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It was singing about real people, whereas, as we know,

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many pop groups sing aspirational songs.

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They're not singing about where they've come from and that reality,

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and I think that really hits home.

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# A jumped-up country boy... #

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What the Smiths stood for looked totally unlike what was

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happening in mainstream rock

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in '82, '83.

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# He knows so much about these things

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# He knows so much about these things...#

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So they genuinely seemed quite shocking

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if you saw the Smiths on Top Of The Pops.

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I just remember the day after The Smiths' first appearance

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on Top Of The Pops with gladioli

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hanging out of, you know, of Morrissey's arse pocket.

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CHEERING

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He came in and that was kind of like his Sex Pistols moment.

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It was. He was like, "Did you see that last night?"

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And he came with flowers in his front pocket, kind of thing.

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It was massive for Nick, you know?

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Morrissey especially was gigantic for Nick. Just...

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Just actually asking the world to listen

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but not to necessarily like you.

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I remember seeing him doing William, It Was Really Nothing

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round a friend's house, I'd have been 12, and...

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I think he ripped his shirt open, Morrissey,

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and he had "marry me" written on his chest.

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And, you know, that was kind of a weird thing to see.

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# Would you like to marry me?

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# And if you like You can buy the ring

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# She doesn't care About anything... #

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Morrissey had spent about a million years in his own head,

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you know, deciding what this was going to be like

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and how his moment was going to arrive.

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I actually think that the great genius of The Smiths

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was their contradiction.

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They're still full of that Manchester gloom in Morrissey's lyrics,

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you know, his lyrics are morbid, it's bedsit-land,

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it's melancholia, it's dejection, it's all those things,

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but Marr's guitar riffs are incredibly poppy and breezy

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and jangly, and they forged these two things together.

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Yes, I'm somewhat of a back bedroom casualty.

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I spent a great deal of time sitting in the bedroom writing furiously

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and feeling that I was terribly important

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and that everything that I wrote would go down in the...

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Go down in the annals of history or whatever.

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And it's proved to be...quite true.

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The Smiths connected with a wave of young fans all over the UK

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who identified with the band's awkwardness with the world around them.

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# I'm right and you are wrong. #

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It was an outsider spirit that came to epitomise indie music.

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Independent music in the '80s felt like a place where

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people could be safe who felt they were different.

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People who maybe had less distinct ideas about their sexuality

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and their identity.

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A lot of that music, I think, had a feminine side.

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It was a place where awkwardness and shyness

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and gaucheness were celebrated.

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It was another world. It was a place they could call their own.

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It was a place that had its own identity.

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The Smiths showed there was a market for alternative music.

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Their debut album went to number two,

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and a string of hit singles made the top 40.

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They were all released on the Indie label Rough Trade,

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and their success was a turning point for the independent sector.

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We had a ripple effect across...

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It consolidated the development of the distribution network,

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the Cartel.

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And certainly Rough Trade needed a band like that.

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If you can chart something then HMV come and say,

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"Hmm, maybe we should do more ordering from you,

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"cos you convinced us you're professional enough to deal with."

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The Smiths changed everything for independent record labels

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because Rough Trade managed to get The Smiths into HMV,

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and it was the first time that independent records had been

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available in those shops, so that opened up that market for us.

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So The Smiths, in the story of it all, were really, really important.

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And that next step that the indies made into mainstream consciousness.

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APPLAUSE

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Two points there. Morrissey, one for you to identify.

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The Smiths had cracked open the world of indie to a mainstream audience.

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But they had only broken through thanks to their devoted fan base.

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Killing Moon, Echo And The Bunnymen.

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Echo And The Bunnymen.

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Yes, absolutely right. Two points for you, well done.

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Radio wouldn't play them.

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The only reason they had hits was because everybody who liked

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the Smiths bought their record on the first day

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and it went straight in at number five or number eight, whatever,

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and then went straight back out again.

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Let's not mince words.

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In the lifetime of The Smiths, when The Smiths actually existed,

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they were not a mainstream band, really.

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They were a large cult.

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# Move-a, move-a... #

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Two very different worlds were emerging in the 1980s -

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the alternative and the mainstream.

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And you either belonged to one or the other.

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I think it's wonderful to have a band like Dire Straits in the world.

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No, I do, because you say to somebody, "Do you like Dire Straits?"

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And if they say, "Yeah, I think they're really great",

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then you know that they're a stupid git and they want their head shutting in a door.

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If you wanted to find out more about the independent world,

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and indeed hear the records that everybody was talking about,

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pretty much your one stop shop was The John Peel Show,

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and in the early '80s when I first came to Radio One, I used to

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produce Peel Sessions here at the BBC studios at Maida Vale.

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Hello, fans, I'm your effervescent Radio One personality

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and I'm allowed in through the front door.

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You properly heard people talk of John Peel Sessions, in fact,

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you've probably got tapes of one or two of them in your bedroom.

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I got to see first-hand how John Peel fanatically championed

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independent music when nobody else in broadcasting

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really gave it much of a chance.

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This is Mark, he's the producer,

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and this is Mike, the engineer. Highly trained people.

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Nice yellow jumper and mullet combo, there.

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Relax, girls.

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John Peel was the way that you could find out about music.

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Particularly when you were at school when you weren't able to go to gigs

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cos your parents didn't allow you, he was the only way

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to find out about the kind of music that I was excited about.

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# Clear... Clear Clear the ranks... #

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Well, now it is Rob's turn to add the final track, the vocals.

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I don't think John Peel's place in this can be underestimated.

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It was huge.

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He was like a one-man crusade.

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Well, like most records,

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the finished product from the session needs to be built up

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track by track, instrument by instrument, or so I am advised.

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There wasn't anybody else on the radio in the way that he was promoting it.

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-OK, is that it?

-What does it sound like?

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It sounded a little bit ragged, that, to me.

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-Do you want to have a listen to it?

-Yeah.

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I think everyone from that period will acknowledge that,

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that he played a massive part in the music education of our youth.

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My first band, The Drowning Craze, when we got a Peel Session

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we just thought we had died and gone to heaven.

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It was the best thing ever.

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It felt like we'd really arrived, you know?

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And I think with the Cocteaus it felt the same.

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SONG: Lorelei By Cocteau Twins

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With help from John Peel,

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by the early 1980s a wave of bands started to emerge on independent

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labels, which were fast becoming home to the innovative and experimental.

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SONG: Lorelei By Cocteau Twins

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Formed in 1982, the Cocteau Twins signed to London label 4AD

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and were immediately celebrated

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for their distinctive look and ethereal sound.

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Elizabeth Fraser, what a voice!

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Astonishing technically, characterful, beautiful,

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a unique voice.

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SONG: Aikea-Guinea By Cocteau Twins

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The sound she made was just not like a human being,

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except for it was exactly like a human being, in the same way. It was very beautiful.

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And Robin Guthrie, the kind of lengths he probably went to in the studio,

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creating these atmospheres.

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For me it was just, you know, it was heartbreaking music,

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you know, very beautiful and very emotional.

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So that was the inspiration for me.

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We would just literally go in the studio,

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lock the door, roll up an enormous amount of spliffs

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and smoke ourselves stupid and make music for our own amusement.

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We never, ever thought about an audience. Never.

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SHE SINGS

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One of the beautiful things was, you know, in our relationship

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with the label at that point, we were just left to get on with it.

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And that's a really wonderful thing they gave us, there.

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And I think probably if I've learned anything,

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without realising it, from that period, it's that.

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You've just got to trust the band to get on with it.

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The independent labels were approaching the music industry

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in a completely different way to the majors.

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They weren't driven by the need to deliver hit records,

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and because of this they became the breeding ground

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for some of the UK's most ground-breaking artists.

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SONG: Never Understand By The Jesus And Mary Chain

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# The sun comes up Another day begins

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# And I don't even worry About the state I'm in

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# Head so heavy And I'm looking thin

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# But when the sun goes down I wanna start again... #

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Formed in Scotland in 1983,

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The Jesus And Mary Chain were one of the first acts to sign to

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Alan McGee's fledgling indie label, Creation Records.

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I give them a gig, not expecting anything.

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They were all screaming at each other to the point of, like,

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it was like verging on violence at any moment.

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And I was just thinking, "Fuck. Horrible.

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"Go away and sound check."

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And then they just made this noise and it was fucking amazing.

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They started feeding back.

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I suppose the eternal debate will be,

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did they mean it or was it a fucking fluke? I really don't know.

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Creation put out their first single, Upside Down,

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and it went on to be one of the biggest selling indie records of the 1980s.

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# We're moving round and round

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# Can't hear a single sound... #

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I mean, it wasn't a label the way most people

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think of as a record label.

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There was no offices. There was nothing.

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When Upside Down was released, you know, we would sit there folding

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the little paper covers and putting them into plastic bags.

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Me, William, Douglas, Bobby and Alan, in his spare bedroom, you know what I mean?

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It was not... Glamorous it wasn't.

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But it got the job done.

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I mean, nobody else wanted to put out a Mary Chain record,

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and Alan did, and it was great.

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And it kind of...

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It put both of us on the map, really.

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I think it's fair to say that nobody had heard of Creation before Upside Down.

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They certainly had afterwards, but likewise,

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nobody had heard of the Mary Chain.

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They've been featured in every major music magazine in the country,

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a number of their shows have ended in violence -

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all the essential ingredients for success.

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-Why are people so excited about you?

-Because we're so good.

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Because we're so much better than everybody else.

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Because so many other people are complete rubbish.

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People have got to pay attention to us. It's pretty obvious, really.

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Their live shows could be as violent as their feedback,

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sometimes ending in rioting.

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Bobby Gillespie always says this to me -

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"one of your greatest statements, McGee, this is truly art as terrorism."

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They were charging people ten quid to get into

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the North London Poly, and playing for 15 minutes.

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But they were so pissed and went on so late they couldn't even play,

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so it was like, you know... So no wonder there was a riot.

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All of those gigs were done pissed and then some.

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Yeah, I'm painfully shy, and the only way that I could get through,

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certainly those early years, was to be permanently drunk.

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What was great about the Mary Chain is they were just anti-everything.

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They were nothing to do with the pop culture of the time

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which was Kajagoogoo and Spandau Ballet and Duran Duran.

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They were anti-all that.

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-What do you know about The Jesus And Mary Chain?

-The next big thing. They're flavour of the month.

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-Flavour of the month?

-They're damn noisy!

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All the press... All the press say so.

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-What's so good about them?

-They're noisy!

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The resulting press attention turned them into

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one of the biggest bands on the independent scene.

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There is a recording of a gig The Jesus And Mary Chain did at The Ambulance Station in London

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in late 1984, and around that point they'd been getting

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a lot of really overheated press, very overexcited press.

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The NME have said they're the best band in ten years or something like that.

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One person heckles, one person goes, "Best band in ten years."

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And Jim Reid's response is just...

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I've just never had anything like it. He goes...

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You don't talk to your audience like that.

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When you're a band on the rise, that's...

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You know, you just can't imagine a band doing that now.

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And they weren't even going down badly, you know?

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The Jesus And Mary Chain might be an extreme example,

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but in the 1980s the independent music scene was all about being different.

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And here in Manchester on a grimy, unprepossessing corner,

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one independent label applied that philosophy to everything they did.

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'Factory records - a partnership, a business, a joke.'

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Factory was run by scrupulously clean TV presenter Tony Wilson,

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who put his passion for releasing

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new and alternative music before anything else.

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-Right!

-SHE LAUGHS

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Can you tell me briefly about Factory Records?

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You see, the record business functions by securing

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your investment, which is to secure your talent.

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So you sign people for seven-year deals and stuff.

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But we're only doing this for fun.

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Tony believed his own press and became a music business mogul,

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but he wasn't at heart.

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Because he wasn't... He wasn't bothered, even at the end,

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he wasn't bothered about money.

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"We'll get some from somewhere else, it's OK.

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"Don't worry about it", you know?

0:20:380:20:40

Well, I'm a bit disturbed by the man who's in charge of our destiny.

0:20:400:20:44

I want to know, do you know what you're doing?

0:20:440:20:47

-LAUGHTER

-Nice one!

0:20:470:20:50

-Hooray!

-Do you really know what you're doing?

0:20:500:20:54

From minute to minute, I know what I want.

0:20:540:20:57

-It might change.

-That's no good to us, is it?

0:20:580:21:01

Factory was to some extent a kind of playpen of indulgence.

0:21:060:21:12

It was an art project.

0:21:120:21:13

I mean, I think you could nominate Factory Records these days

0:21:150:21:18

for the Turner Prize.

0:21:180:21:19

Factory, without a doubt, was an art project.

0:21:190:21:22

Factory gave its artists the opportunity to realise

0:21:250:21:29

extravagant and unusual concepts,

0:21:290:21:31

and one band who benefited from this was New Order.

0:21:310:21:34

In the early 1980s, after the suicide of Ian Curtis,

0:21:380:21:42

the remaining members of Joy Division became New Order and were

0:21:420:21:46

initially criticised for sounding too similar to their former band.

0:21:460:21:50

So Tony Wilson sent them into the studio and gave them

0:21:530:21:56

time to develop a new sound.

0:21:560:21:58

He thought we were musicians who would go into the studio

0:21:580:22:01

and write songs.

0:22:010:22:03

He put us in a studio for a few days, and

0:22:030:22:08

he would say, "you bang something out, at least one hit."

0:22:080:22:12

All we did was just went through all the presets on a synthesiser.

0:22:120:22:16

-Ding ding ding. Ding ding ding.

-Just doodling!

0:22:160:22:18

"What do you think of this?"

0:22:180:22:20

"Got anything else?"

0:22:210:22:22

MUSIC: Blue Monday by New Order

0:22:220:22:28

Eventually they came up with Blue Monday,

0:22:310:22:34

a record that not only sold over three million copies,

0:22:340:22:37

but one that would have an immeasurable influence in both

0:22:370:22:40

the evolution of electronic dance music and graphic design.

0:22:400:22:44

# I see a ship in the harbour

0:22:460:22:49

# I can and shall obey

0:22:490:22:52

# But if it wasn't for your misfortune

0:22:520:22:56

# I'd be a heavenly person today... #

0:22:560:22:59

This cultural landmark could only have come from an independent record label.

0:22:590:23:04

A major record label would never release Blue Monday,

0:23:060:23:09

it is a seven minute long single.

0:23:090:23:11

I mean, seven minute long singles are not played on the radio

0:23:110:23:14

so not released. End of.

0:23:140:23:17

It's a seven minute long single, which is not on the album.

0:23:170:23:20

Who would...? Why would anybody release that?

0:23:210:23:24

Why would anybody want to do that?

0:23:240:23:26

And nor would a record company release a product

0:23:270:23:32

with nothing written on it. Nothing at all.

0:23:320:23:35

And yes, it was expensive. But nobody asked. OK?

0:23:370:23:42

There wasn't...

0:23:420:23:44

There wasn't an accurate enough system within the company to cost things.

0:23:440:23:48

Of course, had that been with a formal record company

0:23:480:23:51

I would have taken it into the director of production who would

0:23:510:23:55

have said immediately "what planet are you on?

0:23:550:23:57

"This is more expensive than an album cover.

0:23:570:23:59

"We do not have the margin in single sales to accommodate this kind of packaging. Take it away."

0:23:590:24:04

This is the famous sleeve to Blue Monday,

0:24:040:24:08

one of Peter Saville's classic and distinctive designs that gave

0:24:080:24:11

Factory's records a look that the majors could only dream of.

0:24:110:24:15

And it was phenomenally expensive.

0:24:150:24:17

Apparently it was something to do with having to individually

0:24:170:24:22

cut out all these indentations here,

0:24:220:24:24

and so that wasn't part of the standard process.

0:24:240:24:27

Or something like that.

0:24:270:24:28

Anyway, the more they sold, the more money they lost,

0:24:280:24:31

or so the story goes.

0:24:310:24:32

Blue Monday was just one of a series of innovative record sleeves

0:24:350:24:39

designed by Peter Saville that gave Factory a distinct identity.

0:24:390:24:43

Independent labels didn't allow profit to

0:24:460:24:48

get in the way of creativity.

0:24:480:24:50

It might have made no financial sense, but inventive packaging

0:24:500:24:54

set the indies apart from the majors, and appealed directly to the fans.

0:24:540:24:59

I was fanatical about the ethos of the label.

0:24:590:25:04

It was artistic as well, if you look at the sleeve, the artwork.

0:25:040:25:08

I know it sounds an odd thing to say, but it was beautiful

0:25:080:25:11

and it was definitely worth collecting, as well.

0:25:110:25:13

I do like my art, as well.

0:25:130:25:15

So there's no reason why... What Saville was producing at that time was special stuff.

0:25:150:25:19

I mean, I can remember the day, picking up a 12" single

0:25:190:25:24

and looking at it, thinking, "That is beautiful.

0:25:240:25:26

"I don't care what this thing sounds like, I'm going to love it anyway!"

0:25:260:25:30

Things like the artwork, it is very specific, with The Smiths,

0:25:330:25:37

New Order and the Cocteau Twins, the whole 4AD thing,

0:25:370:25:40

they had this collection of artwork.

0:25:400:25:42

The Smiths obviously had this series.

0:25:420:25:45

With New Order you had Peter Saville.

0:25:450:25:47

And with each of these things,

0:25:470:25:50

that drew me into a world that made you think when you were

0:25:500:25:54

listening to the record...

0:25:540:25:56

It made you think of that sleeve.

0:25:560:26:00

That was what was a really strong thing about it for me,

0:26:000:26:03

that when I listened to the music I thought of

0:26:030:26:05

the colours of the record, because of the sleeves.

0:26:050:26:09

Part of that idea of going back to the idea of independence and being

0:26:090:26:13

alternative and going against the grain is doing things differently,

0:26:130:26:17

and exploring and experimenting.

0:26:170:26:19

I think what's crucial was the time we were given on this.

0:26:190:26:23

You got time to work on it, you got time to think about it,

0:26:230:26:26

you got time to put everything into it.

0:26:260:26:28

So it would go beyond a front sleeve.

0:26:280:26:30

It had to work with the back sleeve, it had to work with...

0:26:300:26:33

Everything a homogeneous feel to it.

0:26:330:26:35

Work with the inner bag, take out the bit of sexy black vinyl

0:26:350:26:38

and you've got a lovely label on it, it's complete.

0:26:380:26:41

Now, few designers were afforded that luxury of time.

0:26:410:26:46

I might have two months to work on it.

0:26:460:26:49

So you can see it wasn't commercially led at 4AD at all.

0:26:490:26:53

You know, one of the great legacies of the independent scene is

0:26:540:26:59

that sense of authenticity.

0:26:590:27:03

A reinjection of authenticity into pop culture, youth culture.

0:27:030:27:11

APPLAUSE

0:27:120:27:15

SONG: All Day Long by Shop Assistants

0:27:150:27:19

# All day long we walked about And all day long you talked about her

0:27:230:27:27

# I can see I'll never make you stay... #

0:27:270:27:31

The independent music scene was providing an integrity

0:27:310:27:35

that its fans thought the pop world wasn't delivering,

0:27:350:27:38

and by the mid-1980s it wasn't just the leading independent labels

0:27:380:27:41

they were turning to to provide this fix of authenticity.

0:27:410:27:46

Dozens of little indie labels sprang up,

0:27:460:27:48

putting out record by bands that the major labels would never have signed.

0:27:480:27:52

Groups like Half Man Half Biscuit.

0:27:540:27:58

SONG: The Trumpton Riots by Half Man Half Biscuit

0:27:580:28:02

# There's gonna be a riot down in Trumpton tonight. #

0:28:020:28:05

So there was definitely a kind of indie scene that lay below

0:28:070:28:12

the bands that were properly popular, like the Cocteau Twins

0:28:120:28:16

and The Smiths and latterly The Jesus And Mary Chain.

0:28:160:28:20

# She's always somehow Coming through

0:28:200:28:23

# Acting tough like nothing else...#

0:28:230:28:27

It was much more bottom-up, ground level.

0:28:290:28:33

You could be quite successful in your own little way with

0:28:330:28:38

very little by way of radio play.

0:28:380:28:40

And there was only ever going to be John Peel anyway.

0:28:400:28:42

Here's music-loving John Peel.

0:28:420:28:45

Thanks very much, Peter.

0:28:450:28:47

Part of our jobs as disc jockeys is listing for new bands with

0:28:470:28:50

which to thrill our audiences,

0:28:500:28:52

and to help with this I rely on a wide assortment of magazines.

0:28:520:28:54

There aren't nearly as many independently produced fanzines

0:28:540:28:57

as there were in the late 1970s,

0:28:570:28:59

but they still come in at a fairly impressive rate.

0:28:590:29:01

This week there's been Deadbeat from Edinburgh...

0:29:010:29:04

It was very important to read fanzines first

0:29:040:29:08

because it was the way of finding out about new bands.

0:29:080:29:11

And you could start getting a network of people that you would

0:29:140:29:18

know, and if you got there fanzine you'd think,

0:29:180:29:20

"Hang on, maybe I can do this and maybe I can sell through that

0:29:200:29:23

"person and go to the record shop and sell it through there."

0:29:230:29:25

So fanzine culture seemed very much part of it.

0:29:250:29:28

The aesthetic of them was basically hand done, typewritten,

0:29:310:29:37

lots of scribbles, bright colours.

0:29:370:29:40

It was also, for the people who wrote them,

0:29:400:29:43

a great way to meet people,

0:29:430:29:45

because you would turn up to gigs, you wouldn't necessarily know anyone,

0:29:450:29:49

but you could go up to anyone you wanted to and say,

0:29:490:29:51

"Excuse me, would you like to buy a fanzine, 30p?"

0:29:510:29:54

And then you'd strike up a conversation

0:29:540:29:56

cos they'd say, "Oh, look! It's got the Razorcuts in it."

0:29:560:30:00

And then you'd have a chat about why you've got the Razorcuts.

0:30:000:30:04

# Across the space that separates

0:30:040:30:09

# Your social world from mine... #

0:30:090:30:14

Through these fanzines you'd discover the latest indie bands

0:30:140:30:18

and where you could get their 7" single.

0:30:180:30:20

Collecting records became a part of your life.

0:30:220:30:25

I'm not even sure how many 7"s I have, but an awful lot.

0:30:270:30:31

And this was the favoured form of music, really, for indie music,

0:30:310:30:37

because it was a blast of pop.

0:30:370:30:40

These are some of mine.

0:30:400:30:43

Subway, The Flatmates... This was actually by The Pastels.

0:30:430:30:46

It was the one that probably first got me into Creation

0:30:460:30:50

when I heard it on John Peel.

0:30:500:30:52

Age Of Chance. Slamming.

0:30:550:30:57

Political, arch, aggressive, wore cycling gear.

0:30:570:31:01

Ahead of their time.

0:31:010:31:03

Meat Whiplash is a good example. They were on Creation.

0:31:030:31:05

They, as far as I know, just did this one single.

0:31:050:31:08

It's a brilliant single. Don't know much about them at all.

0:31:080:31:12

And then you had The Weather Prophets, Pete Astor that was in The Loft.

0:31:120:31:15

The Loft - Up The Hill And Down The Slope,

0:31:150:31:17

one of the best indie singles of all time.

0:31:170:31:19

Then he formed The Weather Prophets, probably one of the...

0:31:190:31:22

One of the best guitar groups that never sold a million records.

0:31:220:31:25

They were absolutely amazing.

0:31:250:31:27

# Down by the shoreline With my back to the land

0:31:270:31:30

# I felt my feet sink down in the sand...#

0:31:300:31:34

Of course there's a badge of honour that comes along with buying

0:31:340:31:37

indie obscure records.

0:31:370:31:39

I think the thrilling thing about our school days was there was

0:31:390:31:42

nobody into this music except us.

0:31:420:31:44

You know, and we didn't even really feel the need to share our love

0:31:440:31:48

of this music with anybody in our school.

0:31:480:31:50

It was such a private, elite club.

0:31:500:31:52

And like any youth movement,

0:31:550:31:57

you identified with each other through your clothes.

0:31:570:32:00

The '80s saw the rise of the indie kid.

0:32:000:32:03

There were tribes when I was growing up.

0:32:030:32:05

The person who sat next to me at school or in the row behind,

0:32:050:32:08

what he wore, his haircut, all that stuff defined his music,

0:32:080:32:13

and told me everything about him and whether I needed to speak to him.

0:32:130:32:16

And it was as simple as that.

0:32:160:32:18

And I found that really easy, the world was easy to work out.

0:32:180:32:21

It meant that I didn't actually talk to anyone, as the down side.

0:32:210:32:25

Actually, though, I dyed all my clothes black.

0:32:270:32:31

You can get a dye which you put in the washing machine which was

0:32:310:32:33

sort of black but dyed everything grey,

0:32:330:32:35

and it just went in, ruined all the clothes

0:32:350:32:37

for about six washes afterwards,

0:32:370:32:40

but I went into black, looking like Jim Reid.

0:32:400:32:43

Not sounding or acting very much like Jim Reid,

0:32:430:32:45

but really trying to take that on.

0:32:450:32:47

The indie uniform of the mid-80s

0:32:510:32:52

was the opposite of, kind of, power dressing.

0:32:520:32:55

You know, you think of the mid-80s, it's sort of

0:32:550:32:59

big shoulder pads, and men in big suits.

0:32:590:33:04

And this was kind of dress down, charity shop.

0:33:040:33:08

Cardigans, anoraks.

0:33:080:33:10

You just sort of looked hopeless.

0:33:130:33:16

And that shambling look became associated with a movement known as C86.

0:33:190:33:25

Now, originally it was a compilation cassette given away with the NME.

0:33:250:33:30

There you go - "Tape offer! The class of '86."

0:33:300:33:34

It was almost like a little rebirth of indie.

0:33:350:33:38

It was given another little push and a shove.

0:33:380:33:40

And, you know, it definitely gave you hope that,

0:33:400:33:42

"We're going to do our own single, we can do it."

0:33:420:33:45

For me, it feels like the golden age of indie,

0:33:480:33:50

and it's a really trite, you know, thing to say.

0:33:500:33:54

But looking back at it and talking about it, it feels like it.

0:33:540:33:57

C86 ended up as a sort of catchall term for a particular

0:34:020:34:07

type of indie music.

0:34:070:34:08

It was all jangling guitars, amateurish playing

0:34:080:34:11

and fey affectations.

0:34:110:34:13

# Every day she wakes up

0:34:130:34:18

# Her life will be a movie...#

0:34:200:34:25

Its fans were called cuties,

0:34:250:34:27

and the music was criticised for sounding twee and shambling.

0:34:270:34:31

Talulah Gosh was one of the movement's leading bands.

0:34:310:34:35

I didn't actually mind shambling,

0:34:350:34:37

cos I kind of thought we were shambling, in that we...

0:34:370:34:40

No-one quite knew what they were doing, and it did shamble.

0:34:400:34:43

We stopped an awful lot of songs halfway through

0:34:430:34:46

and had to start again.

0:34:460:34:47

We didn't like twee because I just don't think

0:34:500:34:56

we felt we were twee, and also it was derogatory.

0:34:560:35:00

Now it's been reclaimed as a kind of good term,

0:35:000:35:04

but at the time it felt really derogatory.

0:35:040:35:07

"Those bands, they're so twee. Ugh!"

0:35:070:35:09

It was almost the opposite of rock.

0:35:090:35:11

I thought it was rubbish. I thought C86 was total garbage.

0:35:110:35:15

I hated it, to be honest. I don't know what it reminded me of.

0:35:150:35:19

It was just so wet.

0:35:190:35:20

But despite its detractors, the C86 scene had built up quite a following.

0:35:200:35:26

Some critics called it the birth of indie pop,

0:35:260:35:28

and this made the major labels pay attention.

0:35:280:35:31

I think the record labels realised that potentially you could

0:35:310:35:35

make a lot of money out of indie music,

0:35:350:35:37

cos they had seen it with The Smiths being successful.

0:35:370:35:40

And so they had A&R people scout indie stuff,

0:35:400:35:44

you know, quite consciously.

0:35:440:35:46

# You can't stop my heart From turning inside out... #

0:35:460:35:51

Major record companies began signing up bands from independent

0:35:510:35:55

labels, like the C86 group The Mighty Lemon Drops, who left

0:35:550:35:59

Dreamworld Records for Chrysalis.

0:35:590:36:01

For the artists it posed something of an ethical dilemma.

0:36:020:36:06

Did you sign to an independent label

0:36:060:36:08

and stay true to the indie philosophy, or did you sell out

0:36:080:36:12

to the major and hope their financial clout could make you a rock star?

0:36:120:36:16

I had this notion, I suppose, in the '80s, that my music, you know,

0:36:170:36:21

MY bands, were the ones that would stay underground.

0:36:210:36:24

It never occurred to me that they would want to sell a record.

0:36:240:36:28

It never occurred to me they would want to be a chart band,

0:36:280:36:32

that they would want to rule the world or do the other things

0:36:320:36:35

that most rock and roll bands...

0:36:350:36:37

In my mind I had this relationship with that kind of music,

0:36:370:36:40

that they were strictly underground.

0:36:400:36:42

Good evening and welcome to another exciting, enthralling Top Of The Pops with me and him.

0:36:420:36:47

Thank you!

0:36:470:36:48

And for openers, The Jesus And Mary Chain, brilliant song, April Skies.

0:36:480:36:53

CHEERING

0:36:530:36:55

MUSIC: April Skies by Jesus and Mary Chain

0:36:550:36:58

# Hey honey, what you trying to say?

0:36:580:37:00

# As I stand here, don't you walk away

0:37:020:37:04

# And the world comes tumbling down

0:37:060:37:09

# Hand in hand in a violent life

0:37:140:37:17

# Making love on the edge of a knife

0:37:180:37:21

# And the world comes tumbling down. #

0:37:220:37:26

'The indie scene was very important in the '80s,

0:37:270:37:31

'but there was a lot of...

0:37:310:37:32

'..there was a lot of, like, aiming too low about it.

0:37:330:37:37

'We kind of felt'

0:37:370:37:39

pretty good about what we were doing.

0:37:390:37:41

And we wanted to take it as far as we could.

0:37:410:37:43

And we wanted to be on Top Of The Pops.

0:37:430:37:45

The whole kind of punk thing, where nobody wanted to be

0:37:450:37:48

on Top Of The Pops, we couldn't get that at all.

0:37:480:37:52

MUSIC: Somewhere In My Heart by Aztec Camera

0:37:520:37:54

# Summer in the city where the air is still

0:37:580:38:01

# A baby being born to the overkill

0:38:010:38:05

# Well, who cares what people say?

0:38:050:38:08

# We walk down love's motorway. #

0:38:080:38:10

'But when bands, like Aztec Camera,

0:38:100:38:12

'were lured away from their indie label home by a major record company,

0:38:120:38:16

'some fans found it affected their music.'

0:38:160:38:19

# But somewhere in my heart

0:38:190:38:21

# There is a star that shines for you. #

0:38:210:38:25

So a major label signs an indie band,

0:38:250:38:27

throws money at them, puts them in a studio with a producer,

0:38:270:38:30

a big producer, erm...

0:38:300:38:34

There was no middle ground that could be found

0:38:340:38:36

between those two sounds. They ended up sounding, you know,

0:38:360:38:39

getting that kind of mid-80s rock sound grafted onto them

0:38:390:38:41

and lost loads of the stuff that had been charming about them

0:38:410:38:44

and interesting about their sound in the first place.

0:38:440:38:47

MUSIC: Some Candy Talking by the Jesus and Mary Chain

0:38:470:38:49

# I'm going down to the place tonight

0:38:490:38:51

# The damp and hungry place tonight. #

0:38:510:38:56

When The Jesus and Mary Chain left indie Creation for Warner's,

0:38:560:38:59

they discovered the major label had a very different approach

0:38:590:39:02

to running a business.

0:39:020:39:05

'I wish we wouldn't have signed to Warner Brothers records.'

0:39:050:39:09

It was the biggest mistake we made.

0:39:090:39:12

# For a young heart to take, cos hearts... #

0:39:120:39:14

'Nobody really understood what we were about.

0:39:140:39:18

'It was a constant struggle to get anything done.

0:39:180:39:20

'It was like we spoke a different language from those people.'

0:39:200:39:25

We used to go into these marketing meetings and it was like...

0:39:250:39:29

you know, mid 1980s.

0:39:290:39:31

It would be a bunch of guys sitting in a room with, like...

0:39:310:39:34

powder blue Armani suits with the sleeves rolled up

0:39:340:39:37

and sort of blond streaked hairdos

0:39:370:39:40

and all of that. Sitting around, like,

0:39:400:39:42

-"Yeah, come on, tell me about it."

-HE CLICKS

0:39:420:39:44

And it would be...it would be like you'd walked onto the set

0:39:440:39:47

of Miami Vice or something like that.

0:39:470:39:50

I remember sort of having a...

0:39:500:39:53

a discussion about Psycho Candy to people at Warner's

0:39:530:39:56

and I had to end up saying, "Look, I know you think it's shit.

0:39:560:40:00

"But just put it out and you'll see, people will buy it."

0:40:000:40:03

-And they're like...

-HE SIGHS

0:40:030:40:04

"God, you guys are such losers", you know? That was it.

0:40:040:40:07

# Some candy talking. #

0:40:070:40:10

Psycho Candy did eventually shift thousands of copies

0:40:100:40:13

and it went on to be one of the '80s' most acclaimed indie albums.

0:40:130:40:17

Even though it came out on a major.

0:40:170:40:20

As the decade moved on,

0:40:200:40:21

the definition of indie was becoming blurred.

0:40:210:40:24

Was it guitar music or the label you were on?

0:40:240:40:27

MUSIC: Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley

0:40:270:40:29

Complicating matters even further were producers and songwriters

0:40:290:40:32

Stock, Aitken and Waterman.

0:40:320:40:34

In 1987, Pete Waterman launched his own label,

0:40:340:40:38

PWL, to release all their records.

0:40:380:40:41

# We're no strangers to love

0:40:410:40:45

# You know the rules and so do I. #

0:40:450:40:49

They would eventually sell over 500 million units,

0:40:490:40:52

beating the majors at their own game,

0:40:520:40:55

with number one hits from artists like Rick Astley.

0:40:550:40:58

# Never gonna give you up. #

0:40:580:41:00

You'd struggle to hear any guitars on a PWL record,

0:41:000:41:03

but, because of their independent status,

0:41:030:41:06

they qualified for the indie charts.

0:41:060:41:08

# Never gonna say goodbye. #

0:41:080:41:10

And the rest of the industry didn't like it.

0:41:100:41:13

We dominated that chart and they knew they couldn't...

0:41:130:41:16

If we put a Kylie record out, or a Jason record,

0:41:160:41:19

they couldn't put a record out for five or six or seven weeks.

0:41:190:41:22

Because it would just... Their records lost.

0:41:220:41:26

MUSIC: I Heard A Rumour by Bananarama

0:41:260:41:28

As an indie purist, which I was at the time,

0:41:310:41:33

to me, that stuff was a blot on the landscape.

0:41:330:41:36

And you'd see Kylie and Jason and stuff and you'd think, "Oh, come on. That's not...

0:41:360:41:39

"That's not right, they shouldn't be there."

0:41:390:41:41

Kylie Minogue, she's up to 16, with I Should Be So Lucky,

0:41:410:41:44

filmed specially for Top Of The Pops.

0:41:440:41:46

CHEERING

0:41:460:41:47

According to Waterman, the independent sector tried to have

0:41:470:41:49

Stock, Aitken and Waterman ejected from the indie charts.

0:41:490:41:53

Some independents were more ruthless

0:41:540:41:58

than the major record companies.

0:41:580:42:01

By far and away.

0:42:010:42:02

To the point where, obviously, we were the biggest problem they'd got.

0:42:020:42:07

They banned PWL records from the independent chart.

0:42:070:42:11

Only to be told that they couldn't, because, under European law,

0:42:110:42:15

because of what the word "independent" meant,

0:42:150:42:17

they had no choice. They had to put us in,

0:42:170:42:19

as an independent record company.

0:42:190:42:22

That's what we were.

0:42:220:42:23

# I should be so lucky

0:42:230:42:25

# So lucky

0:42:250:42:27

# I should be so lucky. #

0:42:270:42:29

Aesthetically and philosophically,

0:42:290:42:31

you could say that

0:42:310:42:34

PWL had as much right to be there as anyone else.

0:42:340:42:37

Geoff Travis or Tony Wilson, at the time, would probably have

0:42:370:42:40

been horrified if you told them,

0:42:400:42:42

"You're running your record company exactly the same way

0:42:420:42:44

"as Pete Waterman is running his."

0:42:440:42:47

But they were. But Pete was running his far more successfully.

0:42:470:42:50

Cos he wanted to make lots of money.

0:42:500:42:52

Independent music, for me, is when you're independent.

0:42:520:42:55

I mean, literally, it's not about the music,

0:42:550:42:58

it's about the state of the company, what your state of mind is.

0:42:580:43:02

One of our biggest hits was...

0:43:020:43:05

..actually written about our attitude to the record industry.

0:43:060:43:09

You can love us, you can hate us. You ain't ever going to change us.

0:43:090:43:12

Cos we ain't ever going to be respectable.

0:43:120:43:15

That went on to be number one.

0:43:150:43:16

# Take or leave us, only please believe us

0:43:160:43:20

# We ain't ever gonna be respectable. #

0:43:200:43:24

The indie sector might have hated Pete Waterman,

0:43:240:43:26

but he'd be instrumental in where independent music went next.

0:43:260:43:31

Hello. I'm Bill Drummond. I sometimes call myself King Boy D.

0:43:330:43:36

-And...

-I'm Rockman and that's what I'm going to be called today.

0:43:360:43:40

And we're the Justified Ancients of Mu Mu.

0:43:400:43:42

For it was the Coventry pop svengali who showed Bill Drummond

0:43:450:43:49

and Jimmy Cauty how to make a number one record.

0:43:490:43:51

They would form The KLF,

0:43:530:43:55

the most successful UK independent singles band of the 1980s.

0:43:550:43:59

The pair met whilst they were working

0:44:010:44:03

at the Stock, Aitken and Waterman studios.

0:44:030:44:06

We spent hours with those guys, while they were,

0:44:060:44:09

you know, navel gazing.

0:44:090:44:12

And we taught them to stop...stop bloody talking.

0:44:120:44:16

And focus, you know, focus on it.

0:44:160:44:18

We've got to find a bass drum beat on this record here

0:44:180:44:20

that we can sample, then clean up.

0:44:200:44:22

BASS DRUM BEAT

0:44:220:44:24

We had to get to the chorus, to the idea and not waffle.

0:44:260:44:30

ELECTRONIC MUSIC PLAYS

0:44:300:44:31

Can you hear the bass drum? Boom, boom, boom, boom.

0:44:310:44:34

We can't use it from that bit, cos there's too many other instruments.

0:44:340:44:37

We've got to find a bit where it's just the bass drum.

0:44:370:44:39

Usually at the beginning of the song.

0:44:390:44:41

DRUM BEAT PLAYS

0:44:410:44:42

Bill and Jimmy saw first hand how million-selling records

0:44:420:44:45

were produced on a budget, using new, cheap computer technology

0:44:450:44:50

that was completely changing how music was being created.

0:44:500:44:53

The scientists over in Japan in the past few years,

0:44:530:44:55

have been coming up with all of this. All the stuff we're using.

0:44:550:44:59

808, what's this, 808? This is the 909 drum machine.

0:44:590:45:01

MUSIC: Doctorin' the Tardis by The KLF

0:45:010:45:03

# Dr Who! Hey! The Tardis

0:45:030:45:06

# Dr Who! Hey! #

0:45:060:45:07

They built their own studio in a squat in Stockwell and then,

0:45:070:45:11

in true indie fashion, they had a go at writing their own hit record.

0:45:110:45:14

# Dr Who #

0:45:160:45:17

# Exterminate! #

0:45:190:45:20

They came up with Doctorin' The Tardis

0:45:200:45:22

and released it under the name The Timelords.

0:45:220:45:25

By June 1988, it was number one.

0:45:250:45:28

DOCTOR WHO THEME PLAYS

0:45:280:45:31

# Dr Who! Hey!

0:45:440:45:47

# Dr Who!

0:45:470:45:48

# Dr Who! Hey!

0:45:480:45:50

# The Tardis. #

0:45:500:45:52

Doctorin' The Tardis was produced by Jimmy and Bill

0:45:520:45:55

and released on their own label, KLF Communications.

0:45:550:45:58

It might have been a novelty dance record,

0:45:580:46:00

but it had the DIY independent ethos right at its heart.

0:46:000:46:04

# Who-ha! #

0:46:040:46:05

It was an indie spirit forged in the early part

0:46:050:46:07

of Bill Drummond's career, when, in the late '70s,

0:46:070:46:10

he founded the seminal record label Zoo,

0:46:100:46:13

home to the likes of Echo and the Bunnymen and Teardrop Explodes,

0:46:130:46:16

who all played here at Eric's.

0:46:160:46:19

But by the mid-80s, he'd left the indie world behind.

0:46:190:46:22

And he was working for the enemy -

0:46:220:46:24

the major label Warner's.

0:46:240:46:26

It took us all by surprise.

0:46:340:46:37

By this time, Bill had become a record company executive,

0:46:370:46:42

a despised record company executive, really.

0:46:420:46:47

In many ways, that's how we viewed them,

0:46:470:46:51

as "A & arseholes".

0:46:510:46:53

I don't suppose you're allowed to say that on BBC, are you?

0:46:530:46:58

Bloody A & arseholes!

0:46:580:47:00

KLF, to me, is Bill getting really fed up

0:47:000:47:05

of being an A&R man.

0:47:050:47:07

You know, it seemed like a good idea at the time,

0:47:070:47:09

to take that wage from Warner Brothers,

0:47:090:47:11

but it's really, really making me boil

0:47:110:47:15

and I'm ready to go.

0:47:150:47:17

So KLF was the kind of end result of all that.

0:47:170:47:21

And he threw himself in there, 100%.

0:47:210:47:24

# KLF, uh-huh, uh-huh

0:47:240:47:27

# Uh-huh, uh huh

0:47:270:47:29

BEEPING

0:47:290:47:31

# KLF is gonna rock ya!

0:47:310:47:33

# Are you ready? Ancients of Mu Mu

0:47:330:47:37

# Here we go Ancients of Mu Mu

0:47:370:47:40

# KLF is gonna rock ya!

0:47:400:47:41

# Are you ready?

0:47:410:47:42

# Ancients of Mu Mu Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh

0:47:420:47:45

# KLF, KLF is gonna rock ya!

0:47:450:47:47

# KLF! #

0:47:470:47:49

Over the next few years,

0:47:490:47:51

Bill and Jimmy would release records as The KLF.

0:47:510:47:53

With another number one, five more top tens, and a smash hit in America,

0:47:530:47:58

for an 18-month period,

0:47:580:48:00

The KLF were the biggest selling singles band in Europe.

0:48:000:48:03

# And you can catch it

0:48:030:48:04

# Down with the cool crew, talking about Mu Mu

0:48:040:48:06

# Justified ancient liberation, Zulu. #

0:48:060:48:08

With no manager,

0:48:080:48:11

no office.

0:48:110:48:12

They had a lock-up, where they kept their costumes that they

0:48:140:48:16

wore on Top Of The Pops, with the horns coming out of their heads.

0:48:160:48:20

And a squat and a phone.

0:48:200:48:23

And two visionary imaginations

0:48:230:48:26

in Bill and Jimmy.

0:48:260:48:28

And they sold millions and millions of singles.

0:48:290:48:32

# All aboard, all aboard, whoa-oh. #

0:48:320:48:33

Suddenly, there was a sense of cash from chaos again

0:48:330:48:37

rippling through the industry - that everything's possible.

0:48:370:48:40

# All aboard, all aboard, whoa-oh. #

0:48:400:48:41

It's got nothing to do with guitars, it's got nothing to do with people

0:48:410:48:45

in suede or leather jackets singing about their girlfriends.

0:48:450:48:48

# Ooh, ooh!

0:48:480:48:49

# Ooh, ooh!

0:48:490:48:51

It's people doing something truly extraordinary that hasn't been...

0:48:510:48:55

done before.

0:48:550:48:56

DANCE MUSIC PLAYS

0:48:560:48:58

The KLF had been inspired by acid house,

0:49:030:49:06

a grass-roots dance movement that had captured the nation's youth

0:49:060:49:10

in the late '80s.

0:49:100:49:11

When acid house and house and kind of Es

0:49:130:49:16

and rave culture started coming in,

0:49:160:49:20

I actually thought that was the end of indie music

0:49:200:49:22

and we stopped Talulah Gosh in 1988,

0:49:220:49:25

because I thought, you know, what's the point?

0:49:250:49:27

No one's going to be interested in this.

0:49:270:49:29

And it was really true, that, for a couple of years, no one was.

0:49:290:49:34

Everybody was into dance music.

0:49:340:49:36

DANCE MUSIC PLAYS

0:49:360:49:38

Acid house had made indie guitar music seem obsolete almost overnight.

0:49:400:49:45

But some guitar bands took it as a source of inspiration

0:49:450:49:49

and would use it to revitalise their sound.

0:49:490:49:51

I think the big thing that happened to indie music

0:49:540:49:56

was ecstasy and the kind of prim,

0:49:560:49:58

don't-eat-meat, got-to-wear-black people went,

0:49:580:50:01

"Ooh, OK. I'll have a cheeky half."

0:50:010:50:03

And it completely changed that musical landscape.

0:50:030:50:06

Dance culture and going to those places and seeing raves, suddenly,

0:50:060:50:11

hanging out with different people, they completely changed

0:50:110:50:15

the way of working and the musical output and their way of thinking.

0:50:150:50:19

And, so, there was a really big shift.

0:50:190:50:20

DANCE MUSIC

0:50:200:50:23

Here in Manchester, there was a nightclub called The Hacienda.

0:50:270:50:31

It used to be on this spot. It's flats now, like everywhere else.

0:50:310:50:35

But The Hacienda came to be at the centre of the acid house scene.

0:50:350:50:39

DANCE MUSIC

0:50:390:50:42

It was buzzing and amongst the legions of revellers here were

0:50:460:50:50

The Happy Mondays, who absolutely fell in love with the scene.

0:50:500:50:53

It was very full, loud, sweaty and...

0:50:560:51:02

and the coolest place to be on Earth, really. You know?

0:51:020:51:06

Obviously, you know,

0:51:060:51:08

it was that everyone in there was...

0:51:080:51:11

was on ecstasy, so it was great.

0:51:110:51:13

Well, I'd say about 97% of people in there, at times, was on E.

0:51:130:51:16

The Happy Mondays were under the balcony.

0:51:210:51:23

Flogging Es. That's what The Happy Mondays were doing.

0:51:230:51:26

Right underneath where I was playing.

0:51:260:51:28

They were part of that scene, everyone was part of that scene,

0:51:280:51:31

it was like a...it was like a huge secret society for two years.

0:51:310:51:34

MUSIC: Moving In With by Happy Mondays

0:51:340:51:37

The Happy Mondays had started off as an indie guitar band,

0:51:410:51:45

but, after a few years spent hanging around The Hacienda,

0:51:450:51:48

they mashed up their original sound with the dance grooves of acid house.

0:51:480:51:53

Ever the man with the feel for the zeitgeist,

0:51:530:51:55

Factory Records boss Tony Wilson signed them up.

0:51:550:51:58

# Through my window. #

0:51:580:52:01

I honestly don't think Happy Mondays

0:52:010:52:04

would have ever got signed by a major record label.

0:52:040:52:08

They just weren't the sort of band that a major label would have

0:52:080:52:11

even understood or comprehended.

0:52:110:52:12

MUSIC: Moving In With by Happy Mondays

0:52:120:52:15

# ..Goosey Loosey, Turkey Lurky

0:52:150:52:17

# Chicky Licky, Ducky Lucky. #

0:52:170:52:19

At the very first studio session,

0:52:190:52:21

which was to record demos for the Bummed album...

0:52:210:52:24

As we were packing the gear down, a fight broke out

0:52:240:52:27

between Shaun Ryder and Paul Ryder, the two brothers.

0:52:270:52:30

# The sound's falling in. #

0:52:300:52:33

And I remember Paul Ryder pulled a knife

0:52:330:52:35

on his brother in the studio.

0:52:350:52:38

And Shaun... I was like, "Oh, what the fuck's this?"

0:52:380:52:41

Shaun picked up a drum pedal and so the two of them

0:52:410:52:45

were going at it in the studio, with a drum pedal and a knife.

0:52:450:52:49

I mean, I was absolutely terrified and this spilled out into the street

0:52:490:52:53

and they were chasing each other round cars and I was just like,

0:52:530:52:56

"What the fuck have I let myself in for here?"

0:52:560:52:59

Factory was once again taking a risk,

0:53:080:53:10

signing a band that a major wouldn't have touched with a barge pole.

0:53:100:53:14

In an industry, where something you do can either sell 500,

0:53:180:53:22

or 5,000 or 50,000

0:53:220:53:26

or 500,000, or 5 million,

0:53:260:53:28

can sell any of those and you can have no idea,

0:53:280:53:31

except your artistic judgement that it's a good piece of work,

0:53:310:53:36

then, profit and loss forecasts...

0:53:360:53:38

are a joke.

0:53:380:53:40

Tony Wilson trusted his artistic judgement

0:53:400:53:43

and supported his bands in their creative efforts.

0:53:430:53:46

With The Happy Mondays, he was right to do so on both counts.

0:53:460:53:50

Well, he let us make music, you know?

0:53:510:53:53

I think everyone else thought we were pretty shit.

0:53:530:53:56

You know? So...

0:53:560:53:59

He let us, Tony let us make music.

0:53:590:54:02

You know, find ourselves. Your ideas counted.

0:54:020:54:05

You're coming out with an album and you turn around

0:54:070:54:09

to the guys at the record label and say,

0:54:090:54:11

"I want a guy who's a DJ in Ibiza to produce our flagship record."

0:54:110:54:16

He would go, "Not a chance!"

0:54:160:54:19

And independent record labels let you do things like that.

0:54:190:54:23

We were trying to build a cultural bridge between Happy Mondays,

0:54:230:54:28

as an indie or a rock band,

0:54:280:54:31

and the ecstasy generation that was happening

0:54:310:54:34

and that was becoming an absolute natural, cultural phenomenon.

0:54:340:54:38

And they weren't the only ones evolving this sound.

0:54:420:54:46

In 1989, Manchester - or Madchester, as it became known -

0:54:460:54:50

asserted itself as the birthplace of this new genre

0:54:500:54:53

of indie dance music, when both the Stone Roses and Happy Mondays

0:54:530:54:58

debuted on the same episode of Top Of The Pops.

0:54:580:55:01

MUSIC: Fools Gold by The Stone Roses

0:55:010:55:03

# The gold road's sure a long road

0:55:080:55:13

# Winds on through the hills for 15 days

0:55:130:55:16

CHEERING

0:55:160:55:17

CHEERING

0:55:200:55:21

# The pack on my back is aching

0:55:250:55:30

# The straps seem to cut me like a knife. #

0:55:300:55:35

'That first Top Of The Pops was with The Stone Roses.

0:55:350:55:39

'Nobody really had a clue who we was.'

0:55:390:55:41

I mean, you've got a few indie kids, you know, who knew who we was.

0:55:410:55:44

And NME readers, who knew who The Mondays and The Stone Roses was,

0:55:440:55:48

but, that bigger, out-there audience

0:55:480:55:52

didn't have a clue who The Happy Mondays and the Stone Roses was.

0:55:520:55:56

MUSIC: Hallelujah by Happy Mondays

0:55:560:55:58

# Hallelujah

0:55:580:56:00

# Hallelujah, hallelujah

0:56:010:56:04

# We're here to pull ya

0:56:040:56:07

# Back in to do it all the same

0:56:070:56:10

# Hallelujah, hallelujah

0:56:110:56:14

# Not sent to save ya

0:56:140:56:17

# Just here to spank ya and play a game. #

0:56:170:56:21

It seemed, to a lot of people, to be a seminal moment, at that time.

0:56:210:56:24

# Fine, fine, doin' fine. #

0:56:240:56:25

It was a...sort of indie dance music sort of genre

0:56:250:56:29

was born of that and then it became like a...

0:56:290:56:32

You know, a ton of records, which came behind those.

0:56:320:56:35

It started a whole new genre

0:56:350:56:37

and I think it really made it much more exciting.

0:56:370:56:39

MUSIC: Step On by Happy Mondays

0:56:390:56:41

# Hey rainmaker, come away from that man. #

0:56:440:56:47

By the time Happy Mondays crashed into the top five

0:56:470:56:51

with Step On the following year, alongside the Stone Roses,

0:56:510:56:54

they've were leading indie music into a new era.

0:56:540:56:57

# He'll never stop until he's... #

0:56:570:56:59

Indie became part... You know, we were never ashamed

0:56:590:57:02

of being, of saying, "We're a pop band".

0:57:020:57:04

That's what we wanted to be, you know? I mean...

0:57:040:57:06

You know...

0:57:060:57:08

growing up, with...David Bowie,

0:57:080:57:11

you know, it was in the pop charts, you know?

0:57:110:57:13

So, you know, pop music is great music.

0:57:130:57:16

I mean, there's a bit of stigma going about pop music, but...

0:57:160:57:19

or was. But, you know, it's popular music

0:57:190:57:22

and we wanted to make popular music.

0:57:220:57:24

MUSIC: There's No Other Way by Blur

0:57:240:57:26

# There's no other way. #

0:57:330:57:34

At the beginning of the 1980s, indie bands seemed to deliberately

0:57:340:57:37

set themselves apart from the mainstream.

0:57:370:57:41

But, by the end of the decade, indie wasn't just popular,

0:57:410:57:44

it had become pop music.

0:57:440:57:47

And next time, we'll see how indie music

0:57:470:57:49

is revolutionised by a new generation.

0:57:490:57:53

# There's no other way

0:57:530:57:54

# All that you can do is watch them play. #

0:57:540:57:58

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