Browse content similar to Frost on Satire. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
A headline on the front page of The Sunday Telegraph: "Mosley appeals to churches". | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
Nice to think he appeals to somebody. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
Satire is different to humour. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
It's edgier, it's tougher. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
It's more daring, more adventurous. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:18 | |
-David, you're so marvellously witty. -Shut up, David. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
Satire only works if you think, "Oh, that's right. That's true." | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
-In that case, I'm just going to have to get back to you. -I don't think there should be limits. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:29 | |
I think if you can get it funny enough, you can get near anything. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:35 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:00:35 | 0:00:36 | |
Hello? | 0:00:36 | 0:00:37 | |
If it's funny and if it's true and if it's sharp, then it's satire at its best. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:43 | |
Hello, good evening and welcome to Frost On Satire. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:53 | |
Some moments there from the last 50 years of television political satire. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:57 | |
But in all this time, has that satire ever had a real effect? | 0:00:57 | 0:01:02 | |
Can shows such as Spitting Image, Rory Bremner or Saturday Night Live change the political landscape? | 0:01:02 | 0:01:08 | |
What ultimately is the power of satire on TV? | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
Well, to find out I'm going to look at some of what I consider | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
to be landmark shows of the past 50 years, both here and in America. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:21 | |
And my journey starts where it all began, | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
in Studio 2 at BBC TV Centre in West London. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:31 | |
The date was 24th November 1962, | 0:01:31 | 0:01:34 | |
and the show was... | 0:01:34 | 0:01:35 | |
# That was the week that was | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
# The bunnies are here, no doubt. # | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
If you're worried about whether we can really | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
look after all these missiles we're kindly being loaned by the United States, | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
you may be reassured by this direct quotation from an Admiralty circular. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:58 | |
"It is necessary for technical reasons that these warheads | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
"should be stored with the top at the bottom, | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
"and the bottom at the top. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
"In order that there may be no doubt which is the bottom | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
"for storage purposes, it will be seen that the bottom of each head | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
"has been labelled with the word 'Top'." | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
Here, for the first time ever, was a satirical series that tackled the issues of the day head on. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:24 | |
I tell you, it's a real man's life in the regular army. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
Never a dull moment. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
Why don't you join? | 0:02:34 | 0:02:35 | |
Your country needs you... | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
..to take my place. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
'The idea was to create a show that should, | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
'in the words of the then Director General of the BBC, prick the pomposity of public figures.' | 0:02:44 | 0:02:49 | |
Our other bouquet for the week goes to the Government | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
for its sensitive handling of the half a million unemployed. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
Only yesterday, Mr Maudling received a delegation of the unemployed, | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
and after talking to them for 10 minutes, he got up and said, | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
"Well, I don't know about you, but I've got work to do." | 0:03:03 | 0:03:05 | |
'It was groundbreaking on so many levels. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:09 | |
'In its late night Saturday slot, | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
'TW3 would discuss, dissect and indeed deride the news makers of the week | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
'with startlingly direct language. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:19 | |
'And no subject was taboo.' | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
# Mississippi is the state you've got to choose | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
# Where we hate all the darkies and the Catholics and the Jews | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
# Where we welcome any man | 0:03:28 | 0:03:32 | |
# If he's white and strong and belongs to the Ku Klux Klan. # | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
From race relations in America, to rising illegitimacy rates in Britain. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:40 | |
# Don't you weep, my little baby Cos you haven't got a dad | 0:03:40 | 0:03:45 | |
# Go to sleep, my little baby | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
# Things aren't really quite so bad | 0:03:49 | 0:03:54 | |
# There's no reason any longer Why you ought to feel so blue | 0:03:54 | 0:04:02 | |
# The world is full of bastards Just like you. # | 0:04:02 | 0:04:08 | |
As perhaps a rather sad sign of the times, the News of the World is running a competition | 0:04:08 | 0:04:14 | |
which is headed, "Picture yourself in this gay summer dress", followed by a coupon which begins here | 0:04:14 | 0:04:21 | |
by asking you to state your hip size, and then goes on to enquire whether you are Miss, Mrs or Mr. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:27 | |
The show also dared challenge the establishment like never before, | 0:04:29 | 0:04:33 | |
aimed with a potent mix of humour, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
irreverence and some ferocious debate. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:38 | |
When you grow older, you won't talk so much and you'll listen more. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
I hope I won't be so bigoted, Sir Cyril, as those you stand for. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
Look, first of all I'm not a socialist. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:48 | |
But the socialist gospel has always been | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
that all wealth comes from work, and you cannot have wealth without work. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
And satire, and this folly for which you stand, | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
would leave our country, | 0:04:57 | 0:04:59 | |
if it were the only thing we'd got, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
leave us hungry. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:02 | |
Wealth comes from work. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
-Sir Cyril, Hunger Through Satire has never been my slogan, but, er... -LAUGHTER | 0:05:04 | 0:05:09 | |
Heated debate would occasionally produce reactions from the audience. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:15 | |
It was not a review, it was a vicious attack. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
It may well have been. But would you mind going back to your seat? | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
There's just one tiny thing to be done. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
'But outbursts like this didn't deter the team from taking pot shots | 0:05:23 | 0:05:28 | |
'at even the most senior political figures.' | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
This has also been the week of Dean Acheson's sensational outburst, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
when he said.... | 0:05:35 | 0:05:36 | |
Having lost her empire, | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
Britain is not quite as important | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
in the world as she used to be. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
She cannot remain | 0:05:42 | 0:05:43 | |
totally independent. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
Acheson's wild words have caused an international furore. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
What does Acheson think, Jack? | 0:05:49 | 0:05:53 | |
It's Harold here. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:54 | |
Harold MacMillan. M-A-C... | 0:05:54 | 0:05:59 | |
Good night. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
With an unflinching attitude to the status quo, our goal was simply to change the world a joke at a time. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:12 | |
And not all the victims of our humour were amused by it. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
Complaints would pour in, questions were asked in the Commons, the papers had a field day. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:21 | |
Despite this, the show ran for two thrillingly successful seasons. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:26 | |
That Was The Week That Was really helped me to get involved in politics. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:32 | |
When you started, | 0:06:32 | 0:06:34 | |
I became, as a young doctor, an avid fan. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
And I rocked with laugher and thoroughly enjoyed the whole bloody thing. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
I think the spoofing of politicians appealed to me, and still does. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:51 | |
Even when I'm on the receiving end of it. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
And I've been quite often on the receiving end of it! | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
But with a general election on the way, lampooning politicians made the BBC nervous. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:03 | |
And sadly, for those who loved it, TW3 was cancelled. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
So we took the show to America. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
'Live from New York.' | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
# That was the week that was Panama's flag is flown... # | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
TW3 paved the way | 0:07:22 | 0:07:23 | |
for the young to criticise those in power | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
And this new-found confidence to challenge authority was embraced by TV execs in the States. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:33 | |
The American TW3 began its weekly run in January 1964. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:41 | |
For those of you who wrote in that you hated our pilot show, wait until you see this one! | 0:07:41 | 0:07:47 | |
'Like the UK version, the show poked fun at current political leaders.' | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
A spokesman for the Republicans said today, "With the candidacy of Senator Barry Goldwater, | 0:07:53 | 0:07:59 | |
"the Republican Party is on the way back. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
"And who knows? One day it may even go forwards." | 0:08:02 | 0:08:06 | |
'But it was all too much for the US networks, and after the second season they pulled the plug.' | 0:08:06 | 0:08:11 | |
That's it really. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
That WAS That Was The Week That Was, that was. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
Good night. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:17 | |
# That was the week that was It's over, so bye-bye! # | 0:08:20 | 0:08:25 | |
Was it really because the establishment thought TV satire was a serious threat? | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
Well, whether they feared TW3 or not, the seeds for challenging authority had been sown. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:37 | |
It was in the mid-'70s when young Americans found | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
their voice again after Watergate and the Vietnam War had highlighted the failings of those in power. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:47 | |
And now for my second announcement. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
Live from New York, it's Saturday Night! | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
The bright young things at Saturday Night, soon to be Saturday Night Live, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
created a show that skewered American society | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
and its key political figures. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
We've just arrived at the NBC's Studio 8H here in Manhattan. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:19 | |
The very same studio 8H where we actually did That Was The Week That Was American version back in 1964. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:26 | |
Nowadays the tradition continues with Saturday Night Live, | 0:09:26 | 0:09:32 | |
which is alive and well, flourishing and kicking after 35 years. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:38 | |
And so is its creator and producer, Lorne Michaels. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
-Does satire have to make you laugh? -Here it does, yes. -With an audience. -Yeah. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:47 | |
There can be serious satire, I think, but not if you got an audience of 500 people. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
Yes, and serious comes after. First, you have to get the laugh. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:58 | |
I'm going to bring out a special guest we've got with us tonight. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:02 | |
This is Jimmy Carter's campaign manager. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:04 | |
You described it once as a "satirical watchdog of power". | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
Right? Did I? My God, I must have been in a very serious period. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
An eloquent moment that was. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
Principally, the job is to hold an audience. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
And to do it in an intelligent and hopefully thought-provoking way. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:28 | |
You certainly don't put "thought-provoking" on the marquee. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:33 | |
In the early days, which was, you know, er... | 0:10:33 | 0:10:39 | |
everyone under 30 understood the show immediately. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:45 | |
The kind of music we were putting on didn't appear on television at that time, | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
the kind of topics, the sense of humour we were doing. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
-KNOCK ON DOOR -Come in. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:53 | |
Good afternoon, Mr President. | 0:10:57 | 0:10:59 | |
Good afternoon, Dr Speck. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
I just want to say that these sessions have been great for me, | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
and I'm feeling much more clear-headed already. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
I'm very glad to hear that, Mr President. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
-If you'd just like to lie down, we can get on with the session. -Wonderful. Thank you. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
Oh, boy. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:16 | |
What do you think is the most powerful, | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
single item you have produced over the last 35 years? | 0:11:20 | 0:11:25 | |
It's so hard to narrow it down because they're different times. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:30 | |
I think in the '70s when we began, we followed Watergate, and, er... | 0:11:30 | 0:11:38 | |
and distrust of authority and opposition to authority was in the air. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
And now, Weekend Update with Chevy Chase. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
Weekend Update was a direct descendant of That Was The Week That Was, | 0:11:45 | 0:11:50 | |
and so we came on with somehow a right to be able to question. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:57 | |
President Nixon was formally pardoned | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
for all Watergate crimes today | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
by the People's Republic of China. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
Honouring the ailing former leader, the Chinese have named a new dish | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
after Mr Nixon called Sweet And Sour Dick. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:15 | |
I was a writer predominantly for 12 years out here, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
Lorne came looking for writers | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
for this new show and we met and immediately got on. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:28 | |
He was at the Chateau Marmont, a famous old hotel here in Los Angeles. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:34 | |
I spent the day there in an interview with him as he interviewed others, | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
so it was almost understood that I would come and write that stuff. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:42 | |
And then you transmogrified into being the performer with Weekend Update. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:47 | |
I never thought that would happen. Lorne pulled that out at the very last minute before the show. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:53 | |
He said, "Chevy, get up and do something," and I did some news thing that I had written | 0:12:53 | 0:12:59 | |
and I was used to doing that. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
He immediately accepted it and said we have got to use that. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
He came up with this Weekend Update concept, and that is where all that stuff began. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
-And I said, "That's Sir David Frost," I don't think it was Sir at the point. -That came later. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:16 | |
Overworked and exhausted from his flight, the President mistakenly bumped his head on the face | 0:13:16 | 0:13:22 | |
of a little girl who was presenting him with flowers at the airport. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
Smiling, but alert, secret service agents seized the child and wrestled her to the ground. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:31 | |
I think the essence of what I wanted to do at the time, and what has been carried on | 0:13:31 | 0:13:38 | |
as a tradition on that show, Saturday Night Live at least, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:42 | |
the essence of it is to try and get one guy out and another guy in. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:47 | |
We are all democratic liberals, so that is what we were doing. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:52 | |
And in this case it was kind of an easy shot. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
Gerald Ford was falling all over the place. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
A very sweet man, and I liked him very much and I felt bad. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
-You got to know him later, didn't you? -Yes, I did. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:14:02 | 0:14:04 | |
Hello? Hello? | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
The other thing that was really original about that was that you... | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
you obviously aped his gestures and all of that, but you didn't try to be Rich Little, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:19 | |
you didn't go for the exact voice. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
No, I have no talent in that area. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
So, you were just you, | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
-but being Gerald Ford. -Yes. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:31 | |
Bang your head and say, "No problem." | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
The difference between then and what has been done ever since is that they get impressionists, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:40 | |
and if the writing is good and the impression is good, it's working. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:46 | |
I can't do an impression any more than Steve Martin. | 0:14:46 | 0:14:50 | |
We can't even do accents, guys like us. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
We're just lucky to be alive. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
So as SNL set the goal stand for satire in the States, in late '70s Britain, | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
it takes a huge shift in politics for a major satire show to come along. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:09 | |
Gentlemen, pray be upstanding for your most gracious Sovereign, the Queen. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:16 | |
Good evening, boys. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
Good evening, Your Majesty. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:21 | |
There were parodies, there were politicians, | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
and most important of all, there were puppets. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
Spitting Image went on air on the 26th February 1984 | 0:15:29 | 0:15:34 | |
and ran on ITV for 12 years. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
For the millions who regularly tuned into the show, Sunday nights were never the same again. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:43 | |
In my day, we were always very shy of calling ourselves satirists, | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
because you'd done that | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
and you were proper grown-up people that we adulated at school. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:58 | |
The kind of things you did on TW3, and the kind of thing Bernard Levin did rather brilliantly too, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:05 | |
was really thoughtful, properly researched pieces | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
and in many ways Spitting Image is a much sort of simpler thing. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
What we kind of learnt was that you could call a person corrupt, incompetent or useless in any way, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:19 | |
but if you said they had funny, little piggy eyes, they get really cross. | 0:16:19 | 0:16:24 | |
What do we call it when people go around stealing other people's property? You? | 0:16:24 | 0:16:30 | |
-A free-market economy? -Rubbish. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
Following in the footsteps of Gillray and Hogarth, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
Spitting Image brought the nation's politicians to life with a grotesque realism. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:42 | |
Right, dismissed. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
I used to have to go to the IBA every week and report on why these jokes were funny. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:50 | |
"John," said so and so, in a five-man meeting, "now you say here, | 0:16:50 | 0:16:59 | |
"it's a Bernard Levin puppet, I understand, rather topical, | 0:16:59 | 0:17:04 | |
"and somebody says to him, 'Why did you become a journalist?' | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
"and he says, 'I think it was because I was circumcised with a pencil sharpener.' | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
"Now, do you find that amusing, John? | 0:17:12 | 0:17:15 | |
"Do you find that amusing?" | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
I said, "Well, we think it's quite funny." "OK, well, moving on now..." | 0:17:17 | 0:17:20 | |
Then they would go through all the jokes trying to work out why or whether they were funny, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
and there was one particular thing where I had to resort to saying I was a satirist | 0:17:25 | 0:17:31 | |
when there was a famous sketch when Norman Tebbit's puppet was being interviewed about the unemployed | 0:17:31 | 0:17:38 | |
and he said that if the unemployed are so hungry why don't they eat themselves? | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
The chap at the IBA said, "Now, John, this really has gone too far - | 0:17:47 | 0:17:52 | |
"Norman Tebbit eating the unemployed." | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
And I said, "Well, you see, sir, it's a nod in the direction of Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal, | 0:17:55 | 0:18:02 | |
"where he proposed that the Irish unemployed ate their own babies." | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
And he said, "Oh, satire!" And I said, "Yes, that's right. Thank you, sir." | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
"Oh, well, if it's Jonathan Swift, that's fine. Absolutely fine." | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
So we would quite often hide behind you and your ilk, | 0:18:14 | 0:18:18 | |
whereas actually we were just doing people with big noses really. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
The extraordinary thing about Spitting Image | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
is that it had essentially a new medium, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
which was political puppets, | 0:18:27 | 0:18:28 | |
and you added, at the time, an extraordinary series of people doing voices, people like Harry Enfield, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:34 | |
doing the voices, Chris Barrie, extraordinary talent. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
Rory Bremner, doing voices. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
A group of puppeteers from the Henson workshops, who'd done amazing things already. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:47 | |
So you had all these, and then you had some writers in, | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
people like myself and Nick Newman, the cartoonist, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
brought in from a print tradition | 0:18:53 | 0:18:55 | |
as well as the sketch one. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
And you shoved them all together at a time when the country was at its most divisive. | 0:18:57 | 0:19:03 | |
I'm sorry, I couldn't get the hairspray. | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
-Say that again? -Couldn't get their hairspray. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:09 | |
And on this bit. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:10 | |
-Hairspray. -That'll do nicely. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
Once it got going, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:15 | |
it used to this terrible power that satire shows can have | 0:19:15 | 0:19:19 | |
for actually influencing the way an individual is seen. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
There are two basic ways. You can either write satire about the issues or about the personalities. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:30 | |
And, for obvious reasons, Spitting Image tended to be focused | 0:19:30 | 0:19:36 | |
on the personalities in politics, the actual people. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
And they would often pin an identifiable tag on somebody. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:44 | |
And because more people watch TV comedy than Today In Parliament, | 0:19:44 | 0:19:49 | |
those tags really stuck. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
So Norman Tebbit as this leather-jacketed thug, or Heseltine sweeping his hair around, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:57 | |
those images really went into people's heads. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
I apologise for any possibility that I may have misled the House | 0:20:01 | 0:20:06 | |
by giving the impression that I was a competent minister | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
who knew what he was talking about. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
Of course, some politicians didn't like the way they were represented at all. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:16 | |
And I am completely useless. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
I was actually accosted in your garden by Diana Britton, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
as she became, but was then Leon Britton's girlfriend, who said, | 0:20:23 | 0:20:29 | |
"Look, Leon's only got three warts on his face and you given him five." | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
And Leon popped out of the bush and said, "Yes, look, you see, one, two, three. It's totally unfair." | 0:20:33 | 0:20:39 | |
And David Steel famously used to say, "I'm half an inch taller than Neil Kinnock. It's totally unfair. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:45 | |
"I'm portrayed as a tiny little man in David Owen's pocket." | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
I think it's to David Steel's credit that it didn't appear to be | 0:20:51 | 0:20:57 | |
a major issue, but, underneath, it must have been. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
He would have less than human nature not to be upset about it. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
It was not a true picture of our relationship, but it had enough truth | 0:21:04 | 0:21:09 | |
to be able to wildly exaggerate it and therefore make it appealing and attractive for satire. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:15 | |
And it was a curse really, that this was being exaggerated out there. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:21 | |
It was not helpful, but you had to admit it was quite funny. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:25 | |
David, you're so marvellously witty. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
Shut up, David. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
Hurt me, you hunky thing. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
It's a funny thing about satirical representational caricature, | 0:21:31 | 0:21:36 | |
that it's the strong characters who simply appear stronger. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
So all of the big beasts, Heseltine, Mrs Thatcher, | 0:21:39 | 0:21:44 | |
Tebbit, the more you mocked them for being mace-wielding, axe murderers, | 0:21:44 | 0:21:51 | |
the bigger they became. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:52 | |
And the weedy ones who spent all their time moaning and complaining about how unfair it was | 0:21:52 | 0:21:57 | |
and how they didn't have a very big nose just seemed smaller and smaller. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
I'm sorry, Nigel, it won't do. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
It must be changed. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
You know what to do. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:07 | |
All right, I give in. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
Tebbit said, "I was one of the few politicians who liked my puppet." | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
He loved the leather jacket, he loved the bruiser image and thought it was very funny, | 0:22:16 | 0:22:21 | |
because, as you know, he has a great sense of humour, Tebbit - very funny man. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
He said to me, "You know, John, the great thing about politics in those days, | 0:22:25 | 0:22:30 | |
"we all knew how much it mattered. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:32 | |
"We had to take some very difficult decisions. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
"I'll tell you now, we made some bad mistakes, but a lot of the stuff we had to do it." | 0:22:35 | 0:22:40 | |
And that was kind of what was fun about television in the '80s, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
and exciting and risky, was that people minded. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
They really, really cared. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
The government cared and we cared that they had to be called to account, | 0:22:51 | 0:22:55 | |
and in some cases mocked openly. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
I have a theory about satire in that it functions best in eras when politics is very polarised. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:03 | |
When everyone's in the middle agreeing, it's much harder for satire | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
to identify what the issues are and find the contrasting personalities. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:12 | |
But if you look at the Thatcher era in Britain, you had the parties way apart. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
We had riots on the streets. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:19 | |
People weren't politely disagreeing about policy, they were actually out there, | 0:23:19 | 0:23:23 | |
and that gave a set of very disparate, larger-than-life people in a Punch and Judy show. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:29 | |
I think that power has to be checked. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
You need cabinets to check it, you need legislature checking politicians' power, | 0:23:32 | 0:23:37 | |
and one of the ways to check them is humour and satire. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:42 | |
And satire is different to humour. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
It's edgier, tougher, it's more daring, more adventurous. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:51 | |
I certainly used to take my job very seriously and responsibly | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
and say that we needed to get the facts as right as we could, and then fire arrows at people | 0:23:55 | 0:24:01 | |
in our callow, juvenile judgment deserved a bit of a thrashing. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:07 | |
-So, satire can change the world or not? -Not in my experience. I think satire changes perceptions, | 0:24:07 | 0:24:13 | |
but I don't think it changes the actuality. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
When I left Spitting Image after the first four years of it, I certainly felt we had achieved nothing | 0:24:16 | 0:24:23 | |
but possibly made the government slightly more powerful than we had found it. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:29 | |
In the late '80s, Spitting Image was continuing to enjoy great success, | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
but its creators were frustrated. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
The entire direction of politics had not yet been transformed. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:42 | |
Then, in 1989, with the politicians of the day still providing satirists with rich pickings, | 0:24:42 | 0:24:47 | |
the BBC commissioned its own satire show | 0:24:47 | 0:24:50 | |
with a bright young star who provided some of the voices for Spitting Image. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:54 | |
-AS HATTERSLEY: -I don't want to spoil your fun, Neil, but you're crap. | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
If you want votes, it's your act you need to tidy up. | 0:24:57 | 0:25:02 | |
I saw Thatcher's routine last week, and she's got them eating out of her hand. Get yourself a strategy. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:07 | |
"Oh, bloody hell." "That'll do for a start." | 0:25:07 | 0:25:10 | |
Early on, I started out doing, you know, | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
cricket commentators, the Richie Benauds, the Bill McLarens, | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
who's no longer with us, but, of course, a fond memory. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
And I used to love all that, because I was a fan, and then increasingly working with John Wells | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
at the beginning of the '90s, and then with John Bird and John Fortune, | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
I began to feel I should be doing more with the voices and I became more interested politically. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:36 | |
If it's true, as they say, that you can't mix sport and politics, | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
why have the government got so many substitutes on the front bench? | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
Like Spitting Image, Bremner set about the political figures of the day. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:47 | |
But this time not only was it important to get the voice right, but the whole impersonation accurate. | 0:25:47 | 0:25:54 | |
-AS RICHIE BENAUD: -1979, of course, the year when the England opener Thatcher went in. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:59 | |
She followed on, and on, and on - | 0:25:59 | 0:26:02 | |
rather reminded me of the great Geoffrey Boycott. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
She's out there for a whole match, grinds down the opposition and then runs everyone out. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:11 | |
I don't rehearse in front of a mirror a lot of the time. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
Most impressionists will tell you what you have in your head | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
is a film that's running as you're talking. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
There's a film of the character you are being, and you can see in your mind's eye. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
It's like you're watching a film in your mind's eye to which you're providing the soundtrack, | 0:26:24 | 0:26:29 | |
and that's how it works. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
And you can hear yourself being the voice, the film that is in your mind, and that all projects out. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:36 | |
And hopefully it all works instinctively and it comes out through your face naturally. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:42 | |
I almost went into you for a moment there. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
-AS DAVID FROST: -You feel yourself doing those, those facial gestures | 0:26:45 | 0:26:51 | |
like you're doing now. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
And it all becomes part of the characterisation. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
Thank you very much, Rory Bremner. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
-AMERICAN ACCENT: -Maggie, we were a team. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:03 | |
-A touch of class. -I kissed your hand. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
I kissed yours too. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:07 | |
Ah, yes, I remember it well. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:13 | |
The most satisfying times are when you can actually nail a politician | 0:27:13 | 0:27:17 | |
or a character with a line that you hope forever more when people see that person, | 0:27:17 | 0:27:24 | |
they will have in their mind the caricature, so if you can reduce that to one line. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
With John Major, it was, "I'm still here. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
"They said it couldn't be done. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
"It wasn't. They said I wasn't up to the job, I'm not." | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
And, of course, life imitating art, as it were, I remember watching a press conference he did one day. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:45 | |
And he was asked if he would resign or not, and Major stood there and said, "I'm still here." | 0:27:45 | 0:27:50 | |
So the satirical line had become had become attached to him permanently. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:57 | |
Of all the targets you have done over the years, so far, who or what has been the most fun? | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
I enjoyed being Bill Clinton because he had the licence to be a bit naughty. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
You could flirt with the interviewer and you could say, | 0:28:06 | 0:28:10 | |
"Well, when I was in government a lot of great things happened under me, | 0:28:10 | 0:28:14 | |
"but let's not go into that." You have that. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
They were, from a personal point of view, were fun to do. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
With Blair, it was the kind of openness and sibilance and those S's and the rhythm, | 0:28:20 | 0:28:27 | |
which was very much in his speeches which we caricatured, as "tea for two, of course. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:32 | |
"Of course, tea for two, but also two for tea. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:36 | |
"I like apple pie, unless of course you don't like apple pie." | 0:28:36 | 0:28:41 | |
We struggled for a couple of years when Blair came in to think, "Where is it? | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
"What's at the heart of this government? | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
That is when we invented the Blair/Campbell sketches. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:51 | |
The fly on the wall, Andy Dunn as Alastair Campbell, me as Tony Blair. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:54 | |
Well, you messed up this time, didn't you? | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
May 3rd, go for it, go for May 3rd. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
It's all geared up for you, May 3rd, May 3rd, May 3rd. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:04 | |
I think, "OK, maybe May 3rd's a good idea." | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
Suddenly it all changes, all up in the air and I'm left with egg on my arse. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:10 | |
Hey, just back off. It's not the press's fault, is it? | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
It's the public. They're the ones who went ahead and change their minds without telling anyone. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:18 | |
Yeah, the public. Don't get me started on them. The public moan, moan, moan. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
They were the ones who thought we might achieve something, who thought we might make a difference. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:29 | |
They were the ones with the ambition. It wasn't me. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
I always think with things there is a comic line and a true line. | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
And the most satisfying comedy you ever do is when the comic line | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
and the true line are going the same direction and are side by side. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
People are laughing, but laughing at the truth. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
That is why when it is just gratuitous for the sake of getting a laugh, it's not so satisfying. | 0:29:46 | 0:29:54 | |
If it hits the target, if it's funny, and if it's true and if it's sharp, then it's satire at its best. | 0:29:54 | 0:30:01 | |
Rory Bremner is very political these days, and at times, | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
when the Blair sort of thing was at its height | 0:30:06 | 0:30:12 | |
and everybody thought Blair was great, at that time, | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
Rory Bremner spotted first the flaws in Blair | 0:30:15 | 0:30:20 | |
and was quite lethal, really, in penetrating it. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:25 | |
And I think it was a great service, actually. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
There was no really serious opposition, | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
and I think that was extremely important. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
We just need, you know, we need a message. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:36 | |
Something we haven't said before. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:37 | |
All right, something we have said before but they won't remember. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
How much do you think you can trace the clear impact that it's had? | 0:30:46 | 0:30:51 | |
I think reading Campbell's Diaries afterwards and seeing what has come out of various inquiries, | 0:30:51 | 0:30:57 | |
like the Chilcot Inquiry, a lot of it now, you realise that we weren't that far off the mark. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:03 | |
It was funny, but more importantly it just got under their guard a little bit, | 0:31:03 | 0:31:09 | |
and I think it slightly... | 0:31:09 | 0:31:12 | |
It felt like it annoyed them, and subsequently | 0:31:12 | 0:31:17 | |
it's felt like we were on to something. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
So, for satire to work, it needs targets. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
And the more those targets divide opinion, the better it works. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:28 | |
And when those targets were lost, as they were when, say, Margaret Thatcher left power, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:34 | |
satire tends to run out of steam, as it did in Britain. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:38 | |
In America, however, their counterparts were about to enter a new golden age. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:44 | |
Other people may drop like flies in this administration, but I want to be around for a long time - | 0:31:44 | 0:31:51 | |
on the job, making the tough decisions, 24/7, that's 24 hours a week... | 0:31:51 | 0:31:57 | |
..seven months a year. | 0:32:03 | 0:32:06 | |
I wasn't really known in our cast for being, you know, | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
someone who had that as part of my repertoire. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
I had written a sketch called Janet Reno's Dance Party, so I would perform as Janet Reno, | 0:32:14 | 0:32:21 | |
the former Attorney-General, which was just me in a dress, | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
which anyone can do. You could do that, David. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
-Yes, I'll let you go first. -OK. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
So I wasn't really known for that sort of thing. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
There was a member of our cast, Darrell Hammond, | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
who was kind of like the go-to guy for all these impersonations, | 0:32:36 | 0:32:40 | |
and he had an excellent Al Gore waiting to go. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:46 | |
Lorne Michaels, the producer of Saturday Night Live said, "Do you want to do Bush?" | 0:32:46 | 0:32:50 | |
Just this kind of like, "You in the room here, you want to do Bush?" | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
I said, "Sure, I'll try it." And that's kind of how it started. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
What made Bush such a good target, as it were? | 0:32:58 | 0:33:04 | |
Well, I think you had someone who misspoke frequently. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:11 | |
-Yeah. -Um, he, er... | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
and also this kind of...essentially what was a fraternity boy | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
who had kind of become President, really. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
It's a guy who is kind of petulant at times, | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
a little bit of "my way or the highway" approach to his policy. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:33 | |
I really think it was the petulance and all stuff that made him so kind of fascinating to me. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:40 | |
Some of the lines that are attributed to him now | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
were probably actually created by you, for instance. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
I don't know whether you did this one, | 0:33:48 | 0:33:51 | |
but I'm sure the one about "the French don't even have a word for entrepreneur", | 0:33:51 | 0:33:57 | |
I'm sure he never said that, but somebody said it, and it was so convincing. | 0:33:57 | 0:34:01 | |
-I think he did. -Do you? -Yeah. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
I will instead ask each candidate to sum up in a single word the best argument for his candidacy. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:10 | |
Governor Bush? | 0:34:10 | 0:34:11 | |
Strategery. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
The one word or phrase that we were able to kind of contribute to the lexicon was "strategery". | 0:34:17 | 0:34:23 | |
We found out later they would use that in their meetings. "Let's have a strategery meeting." | 0:34:23 | 0:34:28 | |
Er, but yes, it was very interesting | 0:34:28 | 0:34:32 | |
in the sense that I was either accused or applauded by some people | 0:34:32 | 0:34:37 | |
for helping him win the election, the first election. | 0:34:37 | 0:34:44 | |
Because people said they found my portrayal to make him, in a weird way, kind of likeable, | 0:34:44 | 0:34:50 | |
and er, which, I don't know, I never put much credence in it either way. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
So, if Ferrell's impersonation did really help Bush win an election, | 0:34:57 | 0:35:02 | |
it can be argued then that satire is directly influential, | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
though not necessarily in the way it was intended. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
In George Bush, American comics and commentators had their perfect satirical quarry. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:16 | |
But when George W was about to leave office, it seemed there was no obvious replacement. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
And then John McCain picked an unknown Senator as his running mate for the US Presidential elections. | 0:35:21 | 0:35:27 | |
Governor Sarah Palin of the great State of Alaska! | 0:35:27 | 0:35:32 | |
That was the most asinine thing I've ever seen, McCain doing that. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:38 | |
And she is just ripe, ready to go at. | 0:35:38 | 0:35:41 | |
And I don't think she knows it, and I think she's enjoying herself, | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
but she's about as bright as an egg-timer. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
I don't know what that's all about. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
as part of your foreign policy experience. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
What did you mean by that? | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
between a foreign country, Russia, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:03 | |
and on our other side, the land boundary that we have with Canada. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:09 | |
It's funny that a comment like that was kind of made to, | 0:36:09 | 0:36:13 | |
char... I don't know. | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
From this Sarah Palin interview with CBS's Katie Couric, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
ex-Saturday Night Liver Tina Fey was able to draw much of her material from what Palin had actually said. | 0:36:19 | 0:36:28 | |
On foreign policy, I want to give you one more chance | 0:36:28 | 0:36:33 | |
to explain your claim that you have foreign policy experience based on Alaska's proximity to Russia. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:41 | |
What did you mean by that? | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
Well, Alaska and Russia are only separated by a narrow maritime border. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:50 | |
You've got Alaska here, and this right here is water, and up there's Russia. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:55 | |
So we keep an eye on them. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
And how do you do that exactly? | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
Every morning when Alaskans wake up, one of the first things they do is | 0:37:06 | 0:37:11 | |
look outside to see if there any Russians hanging around. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
If there are, you've got to go up to them and ask, "What are you doing here?" | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
And if they can give you a good reason, or they can't, | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
it's our responsibility to say, you know, "Shoo! Get back over there." | 0:37:21 | 0:37:26 | |
Shown just a few weeks before the election, | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
despite its late night slot, | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
at its peak it's been estimated that over 17 million people were watching Tina Fey as Sarah Palin. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:37 | |
So was Sarah Palin your first serious impersonation... | 0:37:37 | 0:37:41 | |
or funny, rather than serious. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:42 | |
My first and only. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:43 | |
I had been on Saturday Night Live as a writer for a long time. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:49 | |
-The head writer.. -The head writer eventually. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
And I did the news segment that they call Weekend Update, | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
so we did a lot of political jokes, | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
but I was never really in the cast in the way that the other performers were. | 0:37:56 | 0:38:01 | |
I was rarely ever even in sketches, let alone called upon to do an impression, | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
and I think people forgot that that wasn't really anything I had ever attempted before. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:12 | |
So when you agreed to come back and do Sarah Palin, | 0:38:12 | 0:38:17 | |
did you expect it to be as big, as huge a hit as it was, or was that a surprise to you? | 0:38:17 | 0:38:22 | |
It was a big surprise. She came on the scene, really, in August - | 0:38:22 | 0:38:27 | |
she was chosen as McCain's running mate in August, | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
and I started getting e-mails saying, "You should play her." | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
People, one, forgot that I didn't work there any more, and two, forgot that I didn't have those skills. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:40 | |
I think she was just such a compelling media character immediately. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:47 | |
She's so telegenic and so likeable, so polarising pretty quickly that people wanted to see her portrayed. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:53 | |
And so I sort of thought that it became clear that I would have to try and do it at least once. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:59 | |
I thought, "This will be terrible and we'll do it once and everybody will say it was terrible." | 0:38:59 | 0:39:04 | |
In that area, you're looking for one or two outstanding characteristics. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:10 | |
What did you seize on first of all? | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
Well, she has, er... Former Governor Palin has a very distinct accent, | 0:39:13 | 0:39:19 | |
and she had a very folksy way of speaking. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
She would drop her Gs at the end of words and was very heartfelt and she smiled a lot. | 0:39:22 | 0:39:29 | |
What lessons have you learned from Iraq and how specifically would you spread democracy abroad? | 0:39:29 | 0:39:36 | |
Specifically, we would make every effort possible to spread democracy abroad to those who want it. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:42 | |
Yes, but specifically, what would you do? | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:39:48 | 0:39:50 | |
Katie, I'd like to use one of my lifelines. | 0:39:57 | 0:40:00 | |
LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE | 0:40:00 | 0:40:02 | |
-I'm sorry? -I want to phone a friend. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
You don't have any lifelines. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
Well, in that case, I'm just gonna have to get back to ya! | 0:40:15 | 0:40:20 | |
Do you think that slightly damaged her, | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
or did it build her up into being now a vaguely potential Presidential nominee? | 0:40:23 | 0:40:31 | |
They made the decision not to allow her | 0:40:31 | 0:40:35 | |
out there much with the press, | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
and so there had been the one interview, | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
the Katie Couric interview, and then Tina pretty much defined her, | 0:40:40 | 0:40:46 | |
because we were doing it more frequently than she was speaking. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:50 | |
Our version became more vivid and real, and I think that we helped define her in a certain way. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:56 | |
I believe global warming is caused by man. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:59 | |
And I believe it's just God hugging us closer. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:04 | |
I don't agree with the Bush doctrine. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
I don't know what that is. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:12 | |
Do you think you do, in terms of satire, and I think one can, | 0:41:12 | 0:41:16 | |
have an effect? Satire can have a real effect. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
Yes, I think every four years Saturday Night Live | 0:41:19 | 0:41:25 | |
finds itself in a spotlight that it doesn't really have either before or after. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:31 | |
This last election cycle was no different with Tina Fey | 0:41:31 | 0:41:35 | |
playing Sarah Palin, | 0:41:35 | 0:41:37 | |
and I actually came on for one of the shows that they did, and we did a sketch | 0:41:37 | 0:41:44 | |
with myself and Darrell playing McCain. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
A vote for John McCain is a vote for George W Bush. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
You're welcome. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:56 | |
I want to be there for you, John, for the next eight years. | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
The next 16 years! | 0:42:00 | 0:42:02 | |
And later all the news shows said | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
that summed it up perfectly. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
I think that show | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
can kind of shape people's views. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
Tina Fey's impersonation is seen by many as the pinnacle of modern-day television satire in the US. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:25 | |
And as for its political impact, according to the New York Times, | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
the sketch "undermined Palin's plausibility as a candidate". | 0:42:28 | 0:42:34 | |
Satire now makes big media stars. It's got that power. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
And not just those performing it, but also the politicians who are in the firing line as well. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:45 | |
Alongside these headline-grabbing impressionists, we've seen a return to the roots of TV satire | 0:42:50 | 0:42:55 | |
and shows like TW3, where the focus was on razor-sharp wit rather than outstanding impersonation. | 0:42:55 | 0:43:02 | |
I think television wanted to have an equivalent to... | 0:43:07 | 0:43:11 | |
There's a long-running radio news quiz in this country, | 0:43:11 | 0:43:15 | |
and it wanted to try and recreate that in a mainstream televisual way. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:20 | |
And what it wanted to do was pair up essentially myself, who was more considered as a journalist, | 0:43:20 | 0:43:25 | |
with Paul Merton, who was a great stand-up, an improviser. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
And the idea was to put these two different sorts of comedy | 0:43:29 | 0:43:34 | |
into one framework and see whether it would work. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
Keep your nose out of Ulster. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
Clinton, who is the new President of the United States, | 0:43:39 | 0:43:42 | |
has said he is going to solve the problems of Ulster, | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
and people are very upset | 0:43:45 | 0:43:47 | |
that the Americans are telling us how to run our country, | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
because that's the Germans' job. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
And the experiment paid off, as the show's been on our screens for two decades. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:58 | |
The odd thing Have I Got News For You does | 0:43:58 | 0:44:01 | |
is have real politicians coming onto a show whose format | 0:44:01 | 0:44:05 | |
they cannot master, and then getting exposed by it. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:09 | |
I mean, that is rather different. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
Al Fayed is a liar, and we have a detailed report saying he's a liar, | 0:44:11 | 0:44:16 | |
but in this case he wasn't lying. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:18 | |
Which happens sometimes. Even liars tell the truth...Neil. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:22 | |
AUDIENCE: Ooh! | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:44:24 | 0:44:26 | |
Just before we go, we have to give you your fees. | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
Do you regard Have I Got News For You as a satirical programme? | 0:44:31 | 0:44:37 | |
-Have I Got News For You has smuggled quite a lot of satire into... -Political satire. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:42 | |
Political satire, into what looks like a mainstream quiz show. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:45 | |
I think probably that's the bit I'm meant to do. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:49 | |
And I think it does it extremely well. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
Ian and John, take a look at this. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:56 | |
-Queues. -Yeah, people wanting to vote! | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
Unmanageable turnout of 65%. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:04 | |
What do they think this is? South Africa? Get out of there! | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
That's the Lib Dem votes being chucked in the river. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
Well, the people have spoken, as Jo said, and they have said, "Er, umm... I'm not sure." | 0:45:11 | 0:45:17 | |
Satire, is it a force for good? | 0:45:17 | 0:45:19 | |
Does it have any effect? | 0:45:19 | 0:45:20 | |
I have been doing this in print and on television for about | 0:45:20 | 0:45:26 | |
25, 30 years, on and off in various ways, so it's quite difficult to | 0:45:26 | 0:45:33 | |
look back and say that had a particular effect. | 0:45:33 | 0:45:36 | |
I do still feel, even at the jaded end of the telescope, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:42 | |
that the effort of attempting to point out | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
what seems to me consummately mistaken, wrong or immoral | 0:45:46 | 0:45:51 | |
about public life has been worth the effort. | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
The reaction I get from people who have enjoyed the shows or read the material is one | 0:45:53 | 0:46:00 | |
that they enjoy someone taking the debate in comic form and then presenting it back to them. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:06 | |
And I think that's what satire can do best. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
And I leave you with the news that as the polls close, Gordon reveals he's not quite sure how it happened, | 0:46:09 | 0:46:16 | |
but he appears to have cast his vote for David Cameron. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
Good night. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:23 | |
Do you think satire is more powerful today than perhaps it was, say, 20 years ago? | 0:46:24 | 0:46:32 | |
I think the power of satire is, to be honest, more or less always the same. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:36 | |
The greatest satirist in Britain was Jonathan Swift, | 0:46:36 | 0:46:40 | |
who managed to change one small tax in a small part of Ireland. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:44 | |
That was it. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:46 | |
If you're looking for concrete results, satire doesn't tend to produce them. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:52 | |
You swell a consensus, you make a point, you crystallise opinion. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
That's what you can do. People say, "Why haven't you toppled the Government?" | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
You say, "Well, it's a democracy and YOU'RE meant to do that, by your vote." | 0:46:59 | 0:47:04 | |
What I hope to do is add to the debate. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
From Comedy Central's World News headquarters in New York, this is the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:14 | |
In the US, for Hislop's style of political commentary to exist, | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
satirists have had to move away from the major networks | 0:47:18 | 0:47:22 | |
to the relatively censorship-free world of cable. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:27 | |
Well, congratulations Gordon Brown, you've broken the heart of the sweetest old lady in England. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
I do apologise if I said anything that has been hurtful and I will apologise to her personally. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:36 | |
Someone has just handed me the tape, let's play it. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
'You should never have put me with that woman. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
'Whose idea was that?' | 0:47:41 | 0:47:43 | |
-"Somebody... Somebody has..." -CHEERING | 0:47:43 | 0:47:46 | |
-"Somebody has just handed me..." -CHEERING CONTINUES | 0:47:46 | 0:47:50 | |
"Somebody has just handed me the tape." | 0:47:50 | 0:47:52 | |
It's like a crash-test dummy. | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
Let's watch it again in Daily Show soul-o-vision. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
You can actually see the moment when his political career leaves his body. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:04 | |
John Stewart first hosted the award-winning Daily Show over 11 years ago. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
Its success lies in Stewart's ability to target his wit | 0:48:09 | 0:48:14 | |
towards the day's top political news stories. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
Anything that has passion, anything that has emotion, anything that is | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
visceral, it's the translation of that into your performance. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:28 | |
-So does satire always therefore have to be funny in order to win the audience over? -No. | 0:48:28 | 0:48:35 | |
No, I think... | 0:48:35 | 0:48:37 | |
You know, it's always in bounds. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:41 | |
We always try and put... | 0:48:41 | 0:48:44 | |
There's a certain high-minded stridency or a point that you want to make | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
that has to be mitigated by... a very nice fart joke. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:52 | |
There is that mix that allows it to be palatable. | 0:48:52 | 0:48:56 | |
You still think you can win over detractors through sound, rational policy? | 0:48:56 | 0:49:02 | |
Were you following the campaign? | 0:49:02 | 0:49:04 | |
I can't trust Obama. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:07 | |
I have read about him, and he is not... He's an Arab. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:13 | |
I don't like the Hussein thing. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:15 | |
I've had enough of Hussein. | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
You think those ladies are backing down because they see you've made | 0:49:20 | 0:49:24 | |
some concessions to Bush era intelligence policies? | 0:49:24 | 0:49:27 | |
And as for your fervent supporters? | 0:49:27 | 0:49:29 | |
She thinks you're asking her to live with you! | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
And what about the effect? | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
Obviously you want have an effect, most of the time. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:01 | |
I don't... I don't know that... | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
If its purpose was social change, we are not picking a very effective avenue. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:10 | |
In some respects, the real outcome of satire is typically catharsis. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:16 | |
And whether that is positive or negative, I don't know. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
And, by the way, catharsis for me. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:21 | |
As far as the audience goes, I have no idea. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:23 | |
-It starts with you. -It starts with me. | 0:50:23 | 0:50:26 | |
The difference between a satirist | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
and a demagogue is that we are observers. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:32 | |
We don't have the confidence | 0:50:32 | 0:50:34 | |
to take that next step. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
"Everything's wrong, follow me!" | 0:50:36 | 0:50:39 | |
We just go, "Everything's wrong. What you want to do? I don't know." | 0:50:39 | 0:50:42 | |
Stewart's show continues in its role as watchdog over the political process from the east coast, | 0:50:44 | 0:50:50 | |
whilst over in LA, the self-styled bad boy of American satire | 0:50:50 | 0:50:55 | |
is firing off his opinions to anyone who will listen. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
Barack Obama, an actual college professor | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
replaced George Bush, an actual chimp. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:07 | |
Commentators announced that comedians would be out of a job. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
Well, they were wrong. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:14 | |
Everyone's out of a job. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:16 | |
When I hear the word satire I do expect a laugh. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:19 | |
It's the difference between a comedian and a humourist. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:25 | |
If they say you are a humourist, I'm like, "OK, | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
"this is not going to be that good." | 0:51:28 | 0:51:29 | |
But hey, I guess you heard the big news today. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
The President won the Nobel Peace Prize. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:34 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
The Nobel committee said he won for creating a new climate in international politics, | 0:51:39 | 0:51:43 | |
which sounds so much nicer than, "In your face, George Bush, you cowboy asshole!" | 0:51:43 | 0:51:49 | |
No stranger to controversy, Maher's outspoken comments on 9/11 just a week after the terrorist attack | 0:51:49 | 0:51:56 | |
meant that his relationship with the ABC network came to a rancorous end. | 0:51:56 | 0:52:01 | |
This country is not overrun with rebels and free-thinkers, it's overrun with sheep and conformists. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:08 | |
-Yes, who said that? Very wise. -A very wise man, sitting before me now. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:13 | |
It's true, isn't it? | 0:52:13 | 0:52:15 | |
It is true. We are very conformist, | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
which has been great for me, because if you're not a conformist you have a lot to work with. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:25 | |
We have a very polarised electorate now. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
And the problem is, they don't need to ever hear anything outside of their own echo chamber. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:33 | |
They do not want to have their views challenged. | 0:52:33 | 0:52:36 | |
There are a lot of things that people have not examined or re-examined | 0:52:36 | 0:52:41 | |
or ever sat down to think about. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:44 | |
And it gives me a living! | 0:52:44 | 0:52:47 | |
Yes, the teabaggers who started a movement and, | 0:52:47 | 0:52:50 | |
in the process, sullied the name of a perfectly good gay sex act. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
That's right, when the year started, "teabagging" was a phrase that referred to | 0:52:55 | 0:53:00 | |
dangling one's testicles in someone else's face | 0:53:00 | 0:53:03 | |
and they managed to turn it into something gross and ridiculous. | 0:53:03 | 0:53:08 | |
So, from the comfort of cable TV, Bill Maher is able to vent | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
his opinions with relatively little interference, | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
leaving him to push the boundaries of taste and decency in the name of satire. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:25 | |
But taking political satire as a whole, are there any limits? | 0:53:25 | 0:53:30 | |
Can it ever go too far? | 0:53:30 | 0:53:32 | |
For public figures who want to be in the eye of the storm, | 0:53:32 | 0:53:38 | |
you can't go too far, really. | 0:53:38 | 0:53:40 | |
But for me, I felt that if I'm really actually hurting the President's feelings | 0:53:40 | 0:53:46 | |
a little bit, maybe I am going a little too far, you know? | 0:53:46 | 0:53:49 | |
I don't feel like I want to hurt the guy, I just don't want him to ever be President. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:54 | |
I don't think there should be limits. | 0:53:54 | 0:53:56 | |
I think as long as you can get it funny enough, you can get near anything, I think. | 0:53:56 | 0:54:03 | |
I think the point of satire is to try and keep pointing out where | 0:54:03 | 0:54:09 | |
what we in England have always called "vice, folly and humbug" still exist. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:14 | |
Where you draw that line is up to you. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:17 | |
I don't say, "I would never do that, I would never do that." It's events. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:20 | |
It depends what those people do, or it depends what happens. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
The whole point of living here is you are allowed to say these things | 0:54:23 | 0:54:27 | |
and you're not shot or incarcerated, and we can take it on the chin. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:31 | |
That's what a free society means. | 0:54:31 | 0:54:33 | |
So even if a show like Spitting Image achieved absolutely no political changes at all, | 0:54:33 | 0:54:39 | |
which I think is probably right, at least it aired the subject, and I think that's a very good thing. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:45 | |
For me, it can never go too far, but I'm a comedian. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
WC Fields once said, to make a regular person laugh | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
all you have to do is dress up as an old lady and have the old lady fall down a manhole cover, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:58 | |
but to make a comedian laugh, it has to really be an old lady. | 0:54:58 | 0:55:01 | |
Unless you go too far, you don't know where that line is. I'd much rather go too far | 0:55:04 | 0:55:08 | |
and take my lumps for it, than not go far enough and have people call me soft. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:13 | |
It's a very personal... | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
People say, "Where is the line?" | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
-I can't draw the line for other people. -No, no. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
Because it's different for whatever... | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
I can't tell you how many times | 0:55:22 | 0:55:24 | |
I will hear from somebody, "We love your show, we watch it all time, | 0:55:24 | 0:55:28 | |
"until you made a joke about the thing I care about, and now you've gone too far. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:33 | |
"And I will never watch again." | 0:55:33 | 0:55:35 | |
So we try and use, | 0:55:35 | 0:55:37 | |
as we do with everything, our own internal barometer of human decency, | 0:55:37 | 0:55:41 | |
and we try not to overstep that, and that's all we can do. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:46 | |
The greatest danger now is that one of the big issues of our time is religion, and particularly Islam. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:53 | |
And you're in a situation now which I've never been in before, | 0:55:53 | 0:55:57 | |
which is, when you are writing a sketch about Islam, for example, | 0:55:57 | 0:56:03 | |
but I'm writing a line, and I think, | 0:56:03 | 0:56:05 | |
"If this goes down badly, I am writing my own death warrant here." | 0:56:05 | 0:56:10 | |
Because there are people who say, "Not only do I not think that's funny, but I'm going to kill you." | 0:56:10 | 0:56:15 | |
And that's chilling. If you're a Danish cartoonist | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
and you work within a Western tradition, if you like, the tradition we have | 0:56:18 | 0:56:23 | |
in this country that you don't take things too seriously, | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
and suddenly you are confronted with a group of people | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
who are fundamentalist and extreme, and they say, "We are going to kill you for what you've written, | 0:56:29 | 0:56:37 | |
"for what you have drawn," you're in a very chilling reality. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:40 | |
And where does satire go there? | 0:56:40 | 0:56:42 | |
I think we like to be brave. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:43 | |
-But how brave? -But not foolish. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
But not foolish. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:47 | |
So is TV satire alive and well and playing an active role in the democratic process? | 0:56:47 | 0:56:54 | |
Whatever the challenges facing it, I feel many of our satirists | 0:56:54 | 0:56:58 | |
have been rather modest about its impact so far. | 0:56:58 | 0:57:02 | |
But then, they would be, wouldn't they? | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
Far more fun to wield nation-changing power when pretending to people that you haven't actually got any! | 0:57:06 | 0:57:13 | |
I'll never forget one Salvation Army major who came up to us after one show and said, | 0:57:13 | 0:57:20 | |
"Congratulations, you've done what the Salvation Army could never do, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:25 | |
"you've emptied all the pubs on a Saturday night." | 0:57:25 | 0:57:30 | |
Goodbye for now. | 0:57:30 | 0:57:32 | |
# I wanna go back | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
# To Mississippi | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
# Where the sandy blossoms kiss the evening breeze | 0:57:40 | 0:57:46 | |
# Where the Mississippi mud | 0:57:47 | 0:57:51 | |
# Kind of mingles with the blood | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
# Of the niggers who are hanging from the branches of the trees | 0:57:54 | 0:58:01 | |
# So carry me home to Mississippi | 0:58:01 | 0:58:07 | |
# That all-American | 0:58:08 | 0:58:12 | |
# All-American | 0:58:13 | 0:58:16 | |
# All-American state. # | 0:58:17 | 0:58:21 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:22 | 0:58:24 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:58:24 | 0:58:26 |