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This programme contains very strong language. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:08 | |
The opening line's good. "It was Christmas Eve, babe, in the drunk tank." | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
You know it's not an ordinary Christmas song when you start a song with that. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:16 | |
-# You're handsome! -You're pretty... # | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
For the first time, all eight Pogues go back to the studio where they recorded it 18 years ago. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:25 | |
It's the first time they have been into any recording studio in 14 years. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:29 | |
Discover what happened when Matt Dillon got completely Pogued. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
There was a lot of drinking going on. That is the Pogues - drinking. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:38 | |
# For Christmas Day. # | 0:00:38 | 0:00:39 | |
It's the great Kirsty MacColl song that nearly wasn't. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:45 | |
When we started recording it, we didn't have anyone lined up to sing it. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:50 | |
# You're a bum, you're a punk... # | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
-'Meet the man who brought it all together...' -Now we have a harp. | 0:00:53 | 0:00:57 | |
There is no harp player in the Pogues! | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
# You scumbag, you maggot... # | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
'And we find out why Shane MacGowan enjoys Christmas so much.' | 0:01:02 | 0:01:06 | |
You can't enjoy Christmas. Christmas is hell. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
HE SNIGGERS | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
# And the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day. # | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
This is the story of Fairytale Of New York. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
# Never gonna give you up Never gonna let you down | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
# Never gonna run around and desert you... # | 0:01:29 | 0:01:34 | |
1987. Britain's worst hurricane leaves boats on the beach and trees in houses. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:39 | |
'This pile of flotsam is all that's left of the famous Shanklin Pier on the Isle of Wight.' | 0:01:39 | 0:01:45 | |
Billions are wiped off shares on Black Monday. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
Tea boy Rick Astley cruises up the charts, and professional drinker Shane MacGowan | 0:01:48 | 0:01:52 | |
finally stumbles into the studio to record the song that will keep him in Long Island Iced Teas for life. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:58 | |
# The boys in the NYPD... # | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
What they recorded is one of the greatest Christmas hits. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
It's the aural antidote to tinsel and sleigh bells. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
You don't normally get Christmas songs that are so utterly hopeless. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
A sentimental song of booze, bars and massive cars. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
It's like a little symphony. Every little bit is bang on. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
The Irish jig that leaves Emerald Islanders crying into their Guinness. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
It was one of those songs that you held on to tightly | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
cos in the video, you imagined that's how New York looked. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
And a lasting testament to singer Kirsty MacColl, killed in a boating accident in the year 2000. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
Whenever I hear Kirsty singing, it gives me pleasure and joy. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
# And the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day. # | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
To tell the fairytale, our handsome prince must meet his beautiful princess. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:49 | |
To do that, we must travel back to London in the late '70s | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
where both Shane MacGowan and Kirsty MacColl's careers began. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
First up, Shane MacGowan - an angry young punk with an idea for a band, seen here at an early Clash gig. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:04 | |
We used to basically want to sound like the Pistols. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
# You, I need you... # | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
Shane's first band was the Nipple Erectors, or the Nips. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
They made lots of noise, but no hits. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
They were a brilliant band and I really liked his songs. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
I thought they were funny and clever, and very catchy as well. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:26 | |
# You gotta let go You gotta come | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
# I need you! # | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
It's a classic of its type. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:33 | |
It became number one in Italy. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
We broke up the same day. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
With the Nips in tatters, Shane went back to his first love, | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
Irish folk music, but with an inspired dose of the Sex Pistols. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
It was a combination that provided the foundations for Fairytale Of New York. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
# I'm sick to my guts of the railway... # | 0:03:50 | 0:03:56 | |
Shane had a lot of Irish records - Dubliners, the Furies and so on. | 0:03:56 | 0:04:00 | |
He would often play them. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
And there's this misconception - people all think we come from Dublin. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
Actually, | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
Shane is the only sort of thoroughbred Irish person in the band, really. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:16 | |
And he'd spent most of his life in England. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
# In 1843, I broke my shovel across my knee... # | 0:04:19 | 0:04:22 | |
One day, we went round to a friend's house and he picked up a guitar | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
and started playing Poor Paddy On The Railway. And it was kind of... | 0:04:26 | 0:04:31 | |
like about 900mph, I should say. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:35 | |
Shane had discovered the elusive Pogues formula - Irish folk punk. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:40 | |
# In 1845, when Daniel O'Connell he was alive | 0:04:40 | 0:04:44 | |
# When Daniel O'Connell he was alive and working on the rail... # | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
We went through every fucking stylistic fucking rock'n'roll thing you could go through... | 0:04:47 | 0:04:53 | |
except for that. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
It really was so glaringly obvious | 0:04:55 | 0:04:59 | |
that the most surprising thing about it was that nobody had thought of it before. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
BANG! | 0:05:03 | 0:05:07 | |
-TANNOY: -Get out of Oxford Street! | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
Unfortunately for the embryonic Pogues, the UK was in the middle of an IRA bombing campaign. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:12 | |
Playing Irish republican war songs was asking for trouble. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:16 | |
The first version of the Pogues were the New Republicans. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
25 years later, Pogue Spider Stacy, takes us back to where they played their very first gig. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:27 | |
And it's now an Irish theme pub. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:29 | |
This is where the New Republicans did their one and only gig. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
I couldn't see that anyone would actually take us seriously. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
And then I sort of realised that of course they would, because | 0:05:37 | 0:05:41 | |
we were actually really good. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:43 | |
When we played here and we were doing Irish rebel songs in 1980, 1981, whenever it was, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
it was definitely not a good thing to be Irish. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
There was a lot of racism against Irish people. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
To make matters worse, the club was full of British soldiers. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
Fortunately, the only weapons they had were fish and chips. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
There was a bunch of squaddies in the audience. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
I mean, like, it was a perfect ending - the squaddies started pelting us with fish and chips. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:11 | |
# There's a guy works down the chip shop, swears he's Elvis... # | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
While the New Republicans were dodging fish and chips, Kirsty MacColl was singing about them. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
She started her career in a punk outfit called the Drug Addix. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:29 | |
But life in a band was not for her. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
She soon signed as a solo artist to Stiff Records. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
She was with one band who were all boys. She used to come back | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
very depressed that they didn't listen to what she had to say. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
It was quite funny when Stiff heard them... | 0:06:41 | 0:06:46 | |
they only wanted Kirsty and they didn't want the boys! | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
# But he's a liar and I'm not sure about you. # | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
She really understood country-music. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
She understood a lot of folk music, really. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
She understood blues music, she loved Ray Charles. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
She kind of got all the different elements. | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
# I went up to Monto town To see Uncle McArdle... # | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
As Kirsty ditched the Drug Addix, so Shane and the group changed their name from the new Republicans | 0:07:08 | 0:07:14 | |
to Pogue Mahone, Gaelic for "kiss my arse". | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
By now, they were a six piece, with drummer Andrew Ranken, bassist Cait O'Riordan, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:24 | |
accordionist James Fearnley, Jem on banjo, and Spider on beer tray. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:29 | |
A recording contract followed, | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
mainly on the strength of their raucous live shows and charismatic lead singer. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:37 | |
# Your aul' wan to my aul' wan I'll hawk the old man's braces... # | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
Shane was incredibly shy. There was a rehearsal in West Hampstead, | 0:07:41 | 0:07:46 | |
and I remember sitting there and there was no music happening. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
I was waiting and I looked, and I saw Shane was looking at me really uncomfortably. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:55 | |
He didn't want to sing with me in the room. He was just shy, you know. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:59 | |
I said, "You better get used to it. I'm your manager. I'm going to hear you sing a lot of times!" | 0:07:59 | 0:08:05 | |
From the start, they mixed traditional songs with Shane's originals. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
Shane was just a brilliant songwriter. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
But their reputation was that they were just cracking live - | 0:08:13 | 0:08:17 | |
exhilarating, boisterous noise, basically. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
Where's Spider? I'll focus before I start being bossy. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
OK, I'm going to take a picture. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
Bleddyn Butcher first photographed the Pogues in 1982. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
Today, he's taking publicity pictures for the 2005 reissue of Fairytale Of New York. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:36 | |
Acting the goat? | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
Caught! | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
Beautiful. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:42 | |
The band is now an eight-piece. The current line-up includes Terry Woods on mandolin, | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
Philip Chevron on guitar, and Darryl Hunt who replaced Cait O'Riordan on bass. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
It doesn't look better. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
I did their first photo session as a band, yes. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
I took the photos behind King's Cross. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:03 | |
I didn't know anything about them then, although the experience was sufficient to make me follow up. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:11 | |
They were very weird. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:12 | |
Jem wanted to have his banjo in it, so I just went, "OK", | 0:09:12 | 0:09:18 | |
and Shane wanted to have his pint glass in it. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
The Pogues' live reputation helped sales of their first two albums - | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
Red Roses for Me and Rum Sodomy and the Lash. | 0:09:26 | 0:09:30 | |
By 1985, manager Frank Murray wanted to turn them into an international act. It was time to visit America. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:40 | |
Shane had never visited before, but it was a place that was already | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
alive in his imagination through films, books and music. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:50 | |
The experience of touring America would inspire the Pogues' greatest song. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:55 | |
Shame was pretty obsessed with America. He had never been before the band went, | 0:09:57 | 0:10:02 | |
so he had this whole mythological America in his mind from films and books and music and so on. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:09 | |
New York turned out to be pretty much the way I imagined it would be. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
Fact and fiction merged into one on the tour bus. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
Shane and Spider were totally into Once Upon a Time in America, and were in character the whole time. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:21 | |
We were watching that round the clock for the purposes of memorising the script. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:27 | |
It was just "motherfucker this and motherfucker that". | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
# In 1845 | 0:10:30 | 0:10:34 | |
# When Daniel O'Connell he was alive... # | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
This previously unseen footage of their first American concert was shot by Pogues fan Peter Dougherty. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:43 | |
This is Second Street, and just here on the corner | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
is what used to be a club called The Whirl. That's where I first saw the Pogues. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:54 | |
They played their first American gig there and it was fantastic. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
# I'm sick to my death of the railway... # | 0:10:57 | 0:11:04 | |
I do remember having a good time, and the woman I was with was saying, | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
"Let's go. Why d'you wanna go backstage? What's your problem? Why would you wanna talk to them?" | 0:11:08 | 0:11:14 | |
But Peter did go backstage and another part of the Fairytale of New York jigsaw was in place. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:20 | |
Peter would go on to direct the song's video and he was about to meet its Hollywood star. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:26 | |
Matt Dillon was in the dressing room. There wasn't that much interest in me. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:34 | |
Backstage was packed with celebrity fans, many of them Irish American. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:39 | |
It was the kind of thing I liked. It reminded me of the Dubliners | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
or the Clancy Brothers mixed with the Clash. Immediately I was a big fan. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:48 | |
Their blend of nostalgia and punk had struck a chord | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
with Irish-Americans like Matt Dillon and Peter Dougherty. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:05 | |
At the same time, Shane MacGowan had been inspired by stories of ancestors who had struggled | 0:12:05 | 0:12:10 | |
to make a new life thousands of miles away from Ireland. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:14 | |
In Ireland, like, you were either dead or in America. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
If you're in America, you're not coming back. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
# Why d'you never listen to me? | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
# I could be invisible to you... # | 0:12:37 | 0:12:41 | |
Three years before the Pogues' trip to America, Kirsty MacColl | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
had caught the eye of the man who would go on to produce Fairytale Of New York. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:51 | |
I met Kirsty when I was producing Simple Minds. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
She came down to do some backing vocals | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
and she was a big fan of Simple Minds. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
She was out doing the vocals and I thought, "I'm gonna marry that girl". | 0:13:01 | 0:13:06 | |
The couple were married within months. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
Kirsty's career was also going well thanks to a string of bittersweet songs about relationships. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:15 | |
A lot of her songs were quite vitriolic about men and people would always say, "Is that song about you?" | 0:13:15 | 0:13:22 | |
I would go, "No". She would always say, "They're not about anyone - they are mixtures of people I meet". | 0:13:22 | 0:13:28 | |
You know, great social comments, a great girl's girl. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:32 | |
# Anyway it doesn't matter... # | 0:13:32 | 0:13:36 | |
While Kirsty was getting married, the Pogues were getting famous. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:41 | |
They were growing all the time. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:42 | |
They kept going from strength to strength. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
Every time we got... | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
we caused enough damage to get barred from a club, we moved up a notch, you know. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:54 | |
But the band needed a big single to break into the mainstream. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
I thought it'd be really interesting to see what they would do on a Christmas song. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:03 | |
So that's why I asked them initially to do one, and we were supposed to be covering a song. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
Instead of looking for a song to cover, banjo player Jem and Shane attempted to write a duet. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:14 | |
But at the time, they didn't have Kirsty MacColl in mind. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
It was written for the Pogues' female bassist, Cait O'Riordan. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
She was a great singer and she had an amazing pair of... | 0:14:20 | 0:14:25 | |
She was a beautiful looking girl, and none of the rest of us were, by any stretch of the imagination. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:31 | |
Jem started with a traditional approach. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
I wrote one Christmas duet, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:36 | |
which was actually - the words were crap and the whole idea behind it | 0:14:36 | 0:14:42 | |
was sort of sentimental Christmas rubbish. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:47 | |
He came up with something more Pogue-like about a couple down on their luck at Christmas. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:52 | |
Then took it to Shane, who came up with the New York connection. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
We decided to make it about two Irish immigrants on the way out - | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
you know, they had had their glory days in... | 0:15:01 | 0:15:05 | |
Well, it explains it in the song. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
# They've got cars big as bars... # | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
Here, exclusively, is the demo of Fairytale Of New York. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:16 | |
It also features original vocalist, Cait O'Riordan. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:20 | |
With the song taking shape and demos laid down with producer, Elvis Costello, | 0:15:20 | 0:15:27 | |
all that remained was the final recording session and the small matter of a title. | 0:15:27 | 0:15:33 | |
Elvis Costello said, "What are you gonna call it? Christmas Eve in the drunk tank?" | 0:15:33 | 0:15:39 | |
With... | 0:15:39 | 0:15:40 | |
you know... | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
amazing imagination, that guy. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
"That's not pretentious enough," I thought. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
Yes, Fairytale Of New York. I was looking at the book cover here - | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
A Fairy Tale Of New York. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
A Fairy Tale of New York was written by Irish-American JP Donleavy in 1973. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:03 | |
It is a story of a young man who arrives in America from Ireland. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:07 | |
Shane met Donleavy in Dublin. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
He explained that his father was a big fan of mine | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
and read most of the books, I believe. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:17 | |
He did this as a favour to his father | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
to recognise the fact that his father read my books and was a fan. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:27 | |
I was surprised. I thought it was a really striking piece of music with wonderful overtones. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:40 | |
I realised straight away that it didn't really have anything to do with my book at all. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:45 | |
The Pogues' Christmas single was really coming together. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
It had lyrics, a tune and a title. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
But despite repeated attempts, they weren't happy with the recordings. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
The song wasn't really whole. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
It was a great song, but we hadn't given much thought to it. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
The band couldn't play it very well, either. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
I think time kind of ran out. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
If you're gonna have a Christmas song, it has to be out for Christmas. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:16 | |
The band went back on the road, becoming tighter and more ambitious, | 0:17:16 | 0:17:22 | |
but they kept working on their Christmas single. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:26 | |
# Five o'clock in the evening... # | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
We started putting the sets, so it became a different song - very tight. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:33 | |
But the constant touring was too much for bassist Cait O'Riordan. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
She married producer Elvis Costello and decided to leave the band. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:51 | |
That was extremely distressing cos they didn't really know what to do. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
They deputised Daryl, and it worked, but I think it was just basically from partying too hard. | 0:17:56 | 0:18:02 | |
The band replaced their bassist, but in 1986, Fairytale had lost its female voice. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:07 | |
It was never gonna be scrapped. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
It was just... You know, Shane was always tinkering. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
I was trying to finish the bloody song. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
Whenever we got together to rehearse and there was a new fiddle about, we would try and play it again. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:27 | |
Shane finally nailed the lyrics in Scandinavia after a bout of pneumonia. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:33 | |
You get lots of delirium and stuff | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
and so, I got quite a few good images out of that. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:42 | |
The Pogues' New York Christmas epic was about to be recorded, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:54 | |
but when they arrived at the studio in the summer of 1987, | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
there was still no female vocalist to sing alongside Shane. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
When we started recording it, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
it was still written as a duet, but we didn't have anybody | 0:19:03 | 0:19:07 | |
really lined up to sing it. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
Despite this, the band went into the studio in London with their new producer, Steve Lillywhite. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:21 | |
Steve was used to working with stadium rock acts like Simple Minds and U2, | 0:19:21 | 0:19:28 | |
not with penny whistles and banjos. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
If you had have said beforehand that we would get Steve Lillywhite, it would have been a no. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:37 | |
We wouldn't have thought of using Steve. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
But when the band came off that 18 months of touring, they had become this really, really tight unit. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:47 | |
I knew I was getting a band who were at their best. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
I was very lucky to get them when I got them | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
cos there was a great feeling of momentum towards the Pogues. I helped ride that crest. | 0:19:55 | 0:20:00 | |
# You can have my husband, but please don't mess with my man... # | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
Steve didn't only bring top-end production to the Pogues, he also brought his new wife. | 0:20:04 | 0:20:10 | |
Kirsty MacColl had tried out a range of musical styles across a number of albums | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
but had never managed a mainstream hit. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
# Used to buy me some rights... # | 0:20:21 | 0:20:22 | |
Kirsty just had her own way. She was a great singer she wrote great songs. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:27 | |
They didn't have mass appeal. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
If you listen to her album, Galore, which is like her greatest hits, | 0:20:29 | 0:20:34 | |
it's a great album. There are really great songs on it. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
One of the many great things about Kirsty was the fact that she had | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
a great understanding of all sorts of music. There were no musical barriers. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
# Walking down Madison I swear I never had a gun... # | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
Despite her strengths, Kirsty was never comfortable performing live. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
She suffered from stage fright which was at its worst on a tour of Ireland. | 0:20:55 | 0:21:00 | |
I was concerned for her. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:02 | |
I got a postcard which really worried me because it wasn't written by Kirsty at all. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:09 | |
It was written by one of the band. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
And it was... | 0:21:12 | 0:21:13 | |
"Dear Mum, | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
"things are going rather better. I have stopped throwing up." | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
# I saw two shooting stars last night | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
# I wished on them but they were only satellites... # | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
It took her a long time to feel at home on stage. | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
It really did. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
She wasn't a natural performer. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
# I don't want to change the world I'm not looking for New England | 0:21:37 | 0:21:43 | |
# Are you looking for another girl... # | 0:21:43 | 0:21:46 | |
In 1985, she hit the top 10 with a cover of Billy Bragg's "New England". | 0:21:46 | 0:21:52 | |
Two years later, Kirsty would discover a cure for her stage fright | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
when she recorded an even bigger single in a duet with Shane MacGowan. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:03 | |
Kirsty's contribution to Fairytale Of New York happened almost by accident. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:08 | |
She would often pop into the studio to see Steve | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
and on one visit Shane suggested she had a go singing the female lead. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:15 | |
Shane sung the whole song | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
and he gave me a set of lyrics and said, "This is where Kirsty sings - this bit that bit". | 0:22:17 | 0:22:23 | |
It was good that he did that. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
Steve had a recording studio at his house and took the demo back for Kirsty to try out. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:31 | |
So I played it to Kirsty and then cleaned the sections of where she should sing, | 0:22:31 | 0:22:37 | |
so she responded to his vocal as if he was there but he wasn't there and she didn't ever sing it with him. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:44 | |
# You promised me Broadway was waiting for me | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
# You were handsome... # | 0:22:48 | 0:22:49 | |
SILENCE | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
# When the band finished playing they held out for more... # | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
They did some work on the home studio and they came in with this vocal and it just sounded perfect. | 0:22:54 | 0:23:01 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir still singing Galway Bay... # | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
Then he brought it back and played it to us and we thought it was really good. That's it. Bingo! | 0:23:06 | 0:23:13 | |
Finally, Fairytale had its female lead. | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
Producer, Steve Lillywhite, takes us through the master tapes. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
Now we have a harp... | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
There is no harp player in the Pogues! How did this come about? | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
Rak Studios, North London. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:29 | |
For the first time in 14 years, the instruments are being set up for the arrival of all eight Pogues, | 0:23:29 | 0:23:35 | |
including notoriously unreliable Shane MacGowan. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:38 | |
Shane thought he was going to a rehearsal tomorrow... | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
Um...maybe it's best to let him keep thinking that, actually. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:47 | |
But maybe not, cos usually when it's a rehearsal, he turns up six days later. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:52 | |
The band started work here in July 1987 and spent four weeks | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
working on their third album, "If I Should Fall From Grace With God". | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
It was these sessions that produced Fairytale Of New York. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
Hopefully, today, all eight musicians are back. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
Andrew Rankin on the drums. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
Darryl on the bass. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
Terry Woods. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
James Fernley. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
And Philip Chevron. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:28 | |
Jam... | 0:24:28 | 0:24:30 | |
..and Spider Stacy. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
And just two hours late, Shane MacGowan. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
Still going despite extraordinary rock-and-roll indulgences. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:45 | |
Rak Studios represented a move up in the world for the Pogues. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:52 | |
Before recording here, we had recorded in Elephant Studios | 0:24:52 | 0:24:57 | |
which is kind of a cold, damp basement in Wapping. | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
Being here with a bit of light coming in was quite nice. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
Also because the place is quite big, you can play live as a band. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:11 | |
We're just learning the song that we didn't learn the first time round. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
Recording wasn't always easy for the band - their DIY punk roots means they don't all read music. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:24 | |
We had countless arguments because people would count things in different ways. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:31 | |
So you'd say, "Right, there is eight of that bit and then there is four of the other bit", | 0:25:31 | 0:25:37 | |
and their one is twice someone else's one. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:40 | |
Our communication of musical ideas was sometimes quite fraught. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:45 | |
I do know it. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
I think all we need to know is the first one is the one that goes... | 0:25:56 | 0:26:01 | |
-The first one when there's still the singing? -Not at that point. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:04 | |
Once I had no idea how to play this. I don't know if it was not on the set list, or something like that. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:12 | |
I couldn't get past the first couple of notes. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
I beseeched Phillip to tell me how it went. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:19 | |
And he kept shouting it to me but I couldn't hear because the crowd was just going mad. It was hopeless. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:24 | |
HE PLAYS INTRO | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
HE HITS WRONG NOTE | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
It's all Bohemian Rhapsody, you know what I mean? | 0:26:33 | 0:26:38 | |
This was a new level of sophistication. It took a while to get it. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
People always say the Pogues are a rabble-rousing drinking bunch, | 0:26:42 | 0:26:47 | |
but they're so serious about their music. I learnt a lot. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
Their arrangements were very good in terms of keeping the listener interested. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:58 | |
Steve now lives in Manhattan, but he has gone into a studio in America | 0:26:58 | 0:27:04 | |
to revisit the multi-track master recordings of Fairytale Of New York. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:09 | |
I've not heard this song for about 18 years. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
I'm going to attempt to give you some idea | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
of what it was like to record the song. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:20 | |
PIANO INTRO | 0:27:20 | 0:27:26 | |
What a fantastic start! I think that was James Fernley. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
# It was Christmas Eve, babe... # | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
It's a song of three parts. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:35 | |
I think we recorded this intro separately | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
and the voice was recorded at the same time as the piano. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:43 | |
If I solo the voice, I'll find out. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
SILENCE That's not the voice. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
VOCAL Hear the piano in the background. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
# I turn my face away... # | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
It is a performance between piano and voice only. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
The piano opening was recorded separately to the main body and the two where edited together. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:04 | |
An edit coming up here. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:06 | |
MANDOLIN COMES IN | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
Terry Woods there! | 0:28:11 | 0:28:14 | |
During the recordings, certain instruments like Terry Woods' mandolin | 0:28:19 | 0:28:25 | |
were multiplied to help give the song an epic feel. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir Were singing Galway Bay | 0:28:29 | 0:28:35 | |
# And the bells... # | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
That mandolin there, we did some masked mandolins... | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
I think maybe even at half speed. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
We slowed the tape down and it goes like "B-r-r-r...", | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
and when you speed it back up, it goes, "BRRRR..." - much faster. | 0:28:47 | 0:28:51 | |
Very nice. I had forgotten about that. Damn, I need to remix this song. | 0:28:51 | 0:28:56 | |
PENNY WHISTLE PLAYS | 0:29:00 | 0:29:02 | |
Everyone talking in the background. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
PENNY WHISTLE CONTINUES | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
Pristine recording(!) | 0:29:10 | 0:29:12 | |
FROM TAPE: "Agh!" | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
You have got to use that, haven't you?! | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
Spider would do that a lot, whenever he made a mistake. "Agh!" | 0:29:25 | 0:29:30 | |
Spider Stacey's penny whistle was key to the Pogue's sound, | 0:29:30 | 0:29:33 | |
but it wasn't an instrument that stadium rock veteran, Steve, was familiar with. | 0:29:33 | 0:29:39 | |
I would be mixing away, and every time I would go back to the beginning and it'd start, | 0:29:39 | 0:29:45 | |
I'd go, "Ooh, that whistle's a bit loud." Cos I'm not used to hearing it. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
Every time, I'd make the whistle quieter and quieter because of its high-pitchedness. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
Your ear always goes to it, so I would always keep turning it down. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
Then the band would say, "Sounds great, but where's Spider?" I'd say, "He's really loud!" "Oh... He isn't." | 0:29:59 | 0:30:05 | |
# ..singing Galway Bay And the bells were ringing out... # | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
Anybody got a favourite bit? | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
OK, now we're in the home stretch. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:16 | |
The soaring orchestral climax, that's quite good. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:21 | |
-The end. -The final... -Yeah, towards the end. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
The final verse. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:29 | |
I mean that's the best bit, I think. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
The ending is important, yes. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
Kirsty's important. | 0:30:35 | 0:30:37 | |
The song really moves me, I have got to say. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
At long last, the Pogues and Kirsty MacColl had pulled it off. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
After two years writing and a month's recording, Fairytale Of New York was complete. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:04 | |
All it needed now was a video. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
It got a black-and-white classic with a cameo performance from a Hollywood heart-throb. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:13 | |
I don't remember much about it but the reason I don't remember much | 0:31:13 | 0:31:18 | |
is different than why other people don't remember. Cos I wasn't drunk. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:23 | |
That is the truth. I can say that. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
Matt Dillon played a police officer who has to throw a drunken Shane MacGowan into a cell. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:33 | |
It sounded straightforward. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:35 | |
I wanted him to just grab Shane by the elbow, but he wanted to know "How aggressive am I"? | 0:31:35 | 0:31:41 | |
I said, "It's Christmas Eve. You don't wanna be working, | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
"you're sick of picking up drunks, | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
"but you certainly won't throw him down the stairs. | 0:31:46 | 0:31:49 | |
"So you're not happy but you're not beating him on the way upstairs." | 0:31:49 | 0:31:54 | |
He was pretty liqoured up anyway, so when I was holding him, | 0:31:54 | 0:31:58 | |
he could have gone down the stairs, you know. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:02 | |
Peter Docherty was going, "Look, Matt, just forget Shane is your friend. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:08 | |
"Just fucking beat the shit out of me! Push me through that fucking door and get things done. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:15 | |
"You're an actor!" | 0:32:15 | 0:32:17 | |
In the end, he did it perfectly. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:20 | |
It was great. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
The start of the video was shot in a New York police station. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
This is it here on the left. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
Manager Frank Murray and extra Dennis Driscoll are going back for the first time in 18 years. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:44 | |
Behind Shane and Matt, you can see Dennis - he is on the right | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
with his back to camera, arresting a genuinely drunken Father Christmas. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
I was trying to hold onto him to make it authentic | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
and he was saying, "You're not gonna take me alive!" and screaming. | 0:32:55 | 0:33:00 | |
Everybody thought it was in quite a state. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
-I guess it was just the theme of it. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:09 | |
Down below in the tombs here, we have cells, | 0:33:09 | 0:33:12 | |
and they were... | 0:33:12 | 0:33:15 | |
We were using them as dressing rooms and a place to hang out before you got called. | 0:33:15 | 0:33:20 | |
It was quite funny because what was going down in the cells, | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
if anybody had known about it, we would've been put IN the cells and locked up. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:29 | |
Shane had a Margarita under his jacket and they saw it immediately | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
and grabbed him and said, "No, no, no." | 0:33:33 | 0:33:36 | |
We nearly all got arrested as well because we did the jail scenes in a real nick | 0:33:36 | 0:33:42 | |
and we were all getting really pissed. | 0:33:42 | 0:33:45 | |
So they stuck me in a holding room, like a holding cell. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:52 | |
It was a jail cell with Shane and, I think, the road manager. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:57 | |
The guy had long blonde hair and he was dressed in a Santa Claus costume. | 0:33:57 | 0:34:02 | |
The two of them, there was no way, even if I wanted to jump in, | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
I could never catch up with them because they were so out there at that point. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:10 | |
All the drinking in the cells was starting to make the police anxious. | 0:34:10 | 0:34:15 | |
Thankfully, there was a screen icon to smooth the ruffled feathers. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
Matt Dillon being sober was a big plus. He pretty much saved the day. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:23 | |
Peter was getting a lot of flak from the cops. They were not having it. They were not happy at all. | 0:34:23 | 0:34:29 | |
Matt went over and talked to them and we just did it and got out. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
It worked really well. I think him being there really saved the day. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:37 | |
-# You were handsome -You were pretty Queen of New York City | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
# When the band finished playing They held out for more... # | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
The biggest challenge in the video was the chorus, "The boys of the NYPD choir were singing Galway Bay". | 0:34:44 | 0:34:50 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir were singing Galway Bay | 0:34:50 | 0:34:55 | |
# And the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day. # | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
"The boys of the NYPD choir..." | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
I don't think that really exists. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:10 | |
"The boys of the NYPD choir" - there is no NYPD choir, so it was... | 0:35:10 | 0:35:15 | |
what are we going to get that is a sort of a group of police doing something we could call musical? | 0:35:15 | 0:35:20 | |
They ended up with the police department's Irish pipe band. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:25 | |
They don't play Irish pipes and there are a few culturally confusing elements. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:32 | |
I remember the night pretty well cos I was fairly new in the band | 0:35:34 | 0:35:38 | |
but we had a performance that night up in one of the big hotels. | 0:35:38 | 0:35:43 | |
After that, we had a bus to take us to the video. | 0:35:43 | 0:35:46 | |
Everybody wanted to go. We all wanted to go, no matter how cold it was. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:51 | |
We filled the bus up with beer and we went down to meet them. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:55 | |
The Pogues got wind that we had beer on the bus, so they came on with us. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
They drank a lot of our beer, I remember that. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:01 | |
But the Pogues maintain it was the police who were the real drinkers. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:07 | |
These guys got out of the coach and they were legless, whatever WE were. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:11 | |
They were drinking all day and they were chanting, "No beer, no show!" | 0:36:11 | 0:36:16 | |
They weren't getting off the bus until they got beer. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:18 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir were singing Galway Bay... # | 0:36:18 | 0:36:24 | |
I don't think they knew Galway Bay. I can't remember what they sang. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
It wasn't Galway Bay. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
They asked us to sing a song that we all knew the words to. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
They didn't have exactly a repertoire of Irish songs. Put it that way. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:39 | |
We were singing the Mickey Mouse theme song. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
I remember us doing that. That was quite funny, singing Mickey Mouse. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
M-I-C-K-E-Y...M-O-U-S-E. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir still singing Galway Bay | 0:36:49 | 0:36:55 | |
# And the bells are ringing out for Christmas day... # | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
In December 1987, the video was complete and the record was released in time for Christmas. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:05 | |
I absolutely adore this record. I hope it's number one for Christmas! | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
The Pogues and Kirsty MacColl and the fabulous Fairytale Of New York. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:13 | |
# It was Christmas Eve, babe... # | 0:37:20 | 0:37:24 | |
Before it came out, I went to a bookies in Camden Town | 0:37:24 | 0:37:29 | |
and I asked what would they give me on the Christmas number one single. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
They said, "We're not doing anything. Who d'you want to bet on?" I said, "The Pogues." "Who are they?" | 0:37:32 | 0:37:38 | |
"Just put down the Pogues." They rang headquarters and gave me 50-1. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
A lot of people started betting on it really early. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
Friends of ours. And it spread. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:48 | |
Then, at one point, it was down to 20-1. I'd get braver every day and I'd put a little bit more on it. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:54 | |
# But I'm the lucky one | 0:37:54 | 0:37:58 | |
# Came in 18-1... # | 0:37:58 | 0:38:03 | |
It started to hot up because it did start to go up the charts | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
and then it became, "Shit, this could actually be like a hit!" | 0:38:07 | 0:38:11 | |
Stand by your turkeys. Here comes the Christmas Top Ten. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:15 | |
All I can remember is lying on the floor listening to successive numbers, | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
always hoping as they came to announce that it wasn't going to be Fairytale Of New York. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:37 | |
They played number three, whatever that was. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
So, Fairytale was gonna be either number two or number one. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:52 | |
Then they announced number two and it was like that horrible instant | 0:38:52 | 0:38:57 | |
where you're just waiting for the first syllable, and as soon as it... | 0:38:57 | 0:39:03 | |
you know, shit... | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
Up six at two, Fairytale Of New York from the Pogues and Kirsty MacColl. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:11 | |
If you ask any artist, they'll tell you that the most prestigious chart position is the Christmas number one. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:18 | |
What was that song - the Elvis song? | 0:39:18 | 0:39:21 | |
Anyway, there was two queens and a drum machine beat us. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:27 | |
Here are the Pet Shop Boys, "Always On My Mind". | 0:39:27 | 0:39:30 | |
It was actually really annoying and disappointing. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:41 | |
I thought it was a disgusting fucking record. | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
It was just a cynical jaded pathetic sort of... | 0:39:44 | 0:39:50 | |
I quite liked the Pet Shop Boys before that. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
# Maybe I didn't treat you | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
# Quite as good as I should... # | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
The record was a hit and the video is a classic, but what makes a good song great? | 0:40:04 | 0:40:09 | |
We speak to the finest musical minds. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
I think having it lay on the shelf for two years was probably very good for the song. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:19 | |
Pieces turn up in Beethoven that were first sketched out | 0:40:19 | 0:40:23 | |
sketched out 15 years before they actually found their rightful place. Yes, let them marinade. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:29 | |
One of Fairytale Of New York's main influences | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
was Ennio Morricone's score for Once Upon a Time in America, | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
a film the band watched repeatedly on their tour bus. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
The main influence for the first notes is Ennio Morricone, basically. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
HE PLAYS FIRST NOTES | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
That is from Once Upon a Time in America. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:05 | |
Fairytale is a mix of two distinct songs, the piano start and then the main body, | 0:41:05 | 0:41:11 | |
as Gary Carpenter, a classical composer from the Royal Academy of Music demonstrates. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:17 | |
It's kind of like, "A Day in The Life", by the Beatles, which is also two songs that are grafted together. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:25 | |
Whereas this, cos he actually takes the opening tune which is this... | 0:41:25 | 0:41:30 | |
..and uses that later in the song so that he does... | 0:41:42 | 0:41:46 | |
HE CONTINUES TO PLAY | 0:41:46 | 0:41:48 | |
So in other words, it provides a kind of unity. | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
So, if it is two songs, it doesn't feel like it. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
The Pogues also stole a musical trick from the classics, | 0:42:02 | 0:42:06 | |
but they weren't the first modern songwriters to do it. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:10 | |
That is a very expressive harmonic gesture. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
It's what, in classical terms, is referred to as an appoggiatura. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:23 | |
# It was Christmas Eve, babe | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
# In the drunk tank... # | 0:42:28 | 0:42:31 | |
You get it, for example, in the start of "Yesterday". | 0:42:31 | 0:42:34 | |
If it went, # Yesterday... # | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
I don't think it'd be covered 212,000 times. Who cares? | 0:42:40 | 0:42:44 | |
That...is what gives it a particular effect. And the same goes here... | 0:42:44 | 0:42:49 | |
It's that little symphony, every little bit is bang on. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:59 | |
The way the whole thing is constructed | 0:42:59 | 0:43:01 | |
is a beautiful work in itself. You can admire it just for that. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:03 | |
It feels like it's been constructed. It's a craftsman-like song. It's very well put together. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:10 | |
A feature of Pogues songs are Shane MacGowan's lyrics. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
Heavily influenced by the greats of Irish literature, they stand up well to close analysis. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:23 | |
It is a classic New York tale, isn't it? | 0:43:26 | 0:43:28 | |
Two people coming to New York, all wide-eyed, | 0:43:28 | 0:43:32 | |
and she ends up as a junkie. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
And he is in a drunk tank. So it is a great Christmas song. There should be more of them. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:41 | |
Singer Nick Cave and Shane MacGowan have been friends for years but they work in very different ways. | 0:43:41 | 0:43:47 | |
He would sing these songs that he had written | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
and I mean great stuff, great lyrics, which a lot of them never saw the light of day. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:56 | |
And he would be picking up scraps of paper from the floor and going "I've got another one", type of thing, | 0:43:56 | 0:44:02 | |
and singing stuff. It was really powerful stuff. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:06 | |
Shane MacGowan's lyrics are consistently good | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
but Fairytale Of New York is considered one of his best. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:12 | |
It can be reduced by the likes of me | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
into an old couple having a bit of a barney on Christmas Eve. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
But that's not really what it's about. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:23 | |
To really understand the lyrics to Fairytale Of New York, we need to know about Irish-American history. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:33 | |
For over 250 years, Irish immigrants have been arriving in America. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:37 | |
The lyrics are about their dreams of a new life and their memories of home. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:42 | |
We gathered together three Irish-American historians at Ellis Island, the immigration centre | 0:44:42 | 0:44:48 | |
where new arrivals, after travelling for thousands of miles, | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
were screened before being allowed into the US. It's now a tourist attraction. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:56 | |
You finally get here, see the Statue of Liberty | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
and you hold your breath to make it through the checkpoints. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:02 | |
Then on to wherever you were going. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:04 | |
Many a dream would end right here in these very halls. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:11 | |
They made it this far, on whatever journey to get to this point, | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
and then they realised they weren't getting through. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
# For all the gold the world might hold... # | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
Many Irish immigrants who did manage to get through US Customs had a struggle ahead. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:26 | |
Songs like "Galway Bay" and the "Rare old Mountain Dew" | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
are mentioned in the lyrics of Fairytale Of New York", | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
tapping into Irish-American nostalgia. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
# And I lay my bones 'neath churchyard stones | 0:45:36 | 0:45:41 | |
# Beside you, Galway Bay... # | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
The world of Galway Bay is the world of | 0:45:44 | 0:45:48 | |
John Ford's "Quiet Man" - | 0:45:48 | 0:45:50 | |
the world of an imagined Ireland is very much a diasporic world. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:55 | |
That's one that's heavily nostalgic and heavily sentimental | 0:45:55 | 0:45:59 | |
and bang, we are being hit up against this in the very song, where sentiment meets sadness. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:04 | |
"Happy Christmas your arse, I pray God it's our last". | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
These are clearly immigrants cos they're saying "Happy Christmas" | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
rather than "Merry Christmas, your arse". | 0:46:17 | 0:46:20 | |
References to "Sinatra swinging" and "cars as big as bars" point to the '50s. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:26 | |
But the song has a more contemporary relevance. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
Shane MacGowan wrote it at a time when many of his countrymen were forced to leave Ireland | 0:46:29 | 0:46:35 | |
and head to America. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
It's the timing of it - | 0:46:37 | 0:46:39 | |
1987 was really the peak period of immigration, new immigration out of Ireland, to the United States. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:44 | |
That young generation of people, who were listing to the Pogues in the bars, | 0:46:44 | 0:46:49 | |
they'd relate to it on a very serious level. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
-# I could have been someone -Well, so could anyone... # | 0:46:52 | 0:46:56 | |
Around 100,000 young Irish moved to the US in the mid-'80s when the song was written. | 0:46:56 | 0:47:01 | |
For the families they left behind, America was the place of their dreams. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:06 | |
My eldest brother went in '85, '86. | 0:47:06 | 0:47:08 | |
Because there were no jobs, really, in Ireland. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:12 | |
We were constantly chatting to him on the phone | 0:47:12 | 0:47:16 | |
and he was telling us the stories of New York and how amazing it was. | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
I guess, I was next. When I got to the age, I would've gone myself, | 0:47:19 | 0:47:23 | |
but luckily, I got into Boyzone. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
When that song came out, it was one of those songs that you held onto tightly, | 0:47:26 | 0:47:31 | |
cos you imagined, from the video, that that's how New York looked. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:36 | |
The song has a filmic quality. Not surprising when you remember what they watched on the tour bus. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:42 | |
But it has this view of New York which is actually totally unreal | 0:47:42 | 0:47:46 | |
and romantic and right out of the movies. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:49 | |
I think Shane MacGowan's work, in that funny way, | 0:47:49 | 0:47:53 | |
it actually does capture something about America | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
and particularly New York City. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
But something you would never be aware of. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:02 | |
"I kept them with me babe, I kept them with my own. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:04 | |
"Can't make it on my own. I built my dreams around you." | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
That's a really strong moment and that is beautiful. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:11 | |
A lot of people think they can write songs but to be that poetic | 0:48:11 | 0:48:15 | |
is very hard to achieve with a certain simplicity and hitting the nail on the head. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:20 | |
But one of the strengths of the song is that it doesn't tell you everything. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:24 | |
Like what happens in the end. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
# Can't make it all alone I've built my dreams around you... # | 0:48:26 | 0:48:32 | |
You don't know what happens at the end. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
It is unlikely they get round the Christmas tree and swap presents, | 0:48:36 | 0:48:43 | |
but in the end, I don't know what happens. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:46 | |
But it has an uplifting ending, you know what I mean, because love never dies. | 0:48:46 | 0:48:53 | |
# I kept them with me, babe | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
# I put them with my own | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
# I can't make it all alone... # | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
The song's mix of emotional lyrics and complex melody has attracted several cover versions. | 0:49:04 | 0:49:09 | |
Irish folk singer, Christy Moore, recorded it as a solo vocal. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:13 | |
# You're a bum, you're a punk You're an old whore and junk | 0:49:13 | 0:49:16 | |
# Lying there on the drip Nearly dead in the bed... # | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
Christy Moore's is really good. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:24 | |
He takes a totally different side to it and does it not as a duet, | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
but as Christy Moore in his own unique style. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:32 | |
# ..choir were singing Galway Bay... # | 0:49:32 | 0:49:36 | |
Not all versions have been so well received. | 0:49:36 | 0:49:40 | |
# The bells were ringing out on Christmas Day... # | 0:49:40 | 0:49:42 | |
The only thing you can ever do with a cover of "Fairytale Of New York" | 0:49:42 | 0:49:46 | |
is try and find a different approach to it. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Try and find something in it that we haven't said. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:52 | |
-# You're handsome. -You're pretty Queen of New York City... # | 0:49:52 | 0:49:55 | |
Because I have so many brothers and sisters living in America, that song became very important to me. | 0:49:55 | 0:50:00 | |
I always try to cover songs that are important to me and that I have great memories of. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:05 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir were singing Galway Bay... # | 0:50:05 | 0:50:10 | |
Ronan's management had reservations about him "going all Shane MacGowan" on them and censored the lyrics. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:16 | |
The only problem, I think, was the faggot phrase. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
But we had to change it. What can you do?! | 0:50:19 | 0:50:23 | |
If you're going to sing "Fairytale of New York" and you're going to change the words, why bother? | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
"You scumbag, you maggot, you're cheap and you're haggard" was the lyric we had to change TO. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:33 | |
It's fair enough. It doesn't really do any harm to the song. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:37 | |
# You scumbag, you maggot You're cheap and you're haggard... # | 0:50:37 | 0:50:40 | |
Ronan Keating, I thought that was good. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:44 | |
The best versions I've heard are of people singing it in bars, actually. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:49 | |
Exactly like the audience at a Pogues gig. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:53 | |
Shane and Kirsty's performance was a show-stopper. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:56 | |
Kirsty MacColl! | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
CHEERING | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
Kirsty was in her element with the band | 0:51:03 | 0:51:05 | |
and the fans just loved her, they really did. | 0:51:05 | 0:51:11 | |
When her name was mentioned, there was such an outpouring of...love. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:15 | |
This song's called "Fairytale Of New York". | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
Performing with the Pogues was the perfect cure for Kirsty's stage fright. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
She went back in front of a crowd for the first time in seven years. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:29 | |
It was very moving. I found it so moving, and that is what is so extraordinary. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:35 | |
I am so glad that I saw her. That was really so exciting. | 0:51:35 | 0:51:41 | |
There is the part of the song where Shane sings, | 0:51:41 | 0:51:45 | |
"I could have been someone", and Kirsty goes, "Well, so could anyone." | 0:51:45 | 0:51:50 | |
You'd have a hall full of three, four, 5,000 people all singing, "So could anyone" back at the band, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:58 | |
and it was an extraordinary moment. Spine-tingling sometimes. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
# I could've been someone | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
# Well, so could anyone... | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
# You took my dreams from me | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
# When I first found you... # | 0:52:10 | 0:52:13 | |
I used to just wait for it every night cos I would catch Kirsty's eye in the middle of it, if I was lucky. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:20 | |
# Can't make it all alone I built my dreams around you... # | 0:52:20 | 0:52:24 | |
Fairytale is not a Pogues song. It's the Pogues and Kirsty MacColl. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:30 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir Still singing Galway Bay | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
# And the bells are ringing out for Christmas Day... # | 0:52:32 | 0:52:36 | |
The week before Christmas 2000, | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
something happened which meant the song would never again be played in its original form. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:44 | |
Pop singer, Kirsty MacColl, has been killed in an accident in Mexico... | 0:52:46 | 0:52:50 | |
Kirsty was hit by a speedboat while swimming with her two sons on holiday. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:54 | |
Her mother got a telephone call at home. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:57 | |
He just said, "There has been an accident, a boating accident, and Kirsty is dead." | 0:52:57 | 0:53:03 | |
Well...what can I say... | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
I miss her. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
# The wind blows right through you It's no place for the old | 0:53:13 | 0:53:17 | |
# When you first took my hand... # | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
When we were in there listening to it, it sort of choked me a little bit. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:24 | |
Whenever I listen to Kirsty's voice in a studio situation, it takes me back. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:29 | |
# Sinatra was swinging The drunks, they were singing... # | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
It was so sad when she was taken from us. | 0:53:32 | 0:53:35 | |
It was a real horrible shock, | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
kind of unbelievable and incomprehensible and nightmarish. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:42 | |
It still is, actually. | 0:53:42 | 0:53:46 | |
Every year near her birthday, Kirsty's relatives and fans | 0:53:50 | 0:53:55 | |
gather around her memorial in Soho Square to sing her songs and remember her life. | 0:53:55 | 0:54:01 | |
This is their 5th year. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:03 | |
What would be lovely would be if Kirsty was here singing her bit, | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
"So could anyone..." | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
I sing that, like everybody does, with a real...power. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:15 | |
# I could have been someone | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
# Well, so could anyone... # | 0:54:18 | 0:54:20 | |
Whenever I hear Kirsty singing, it gives me pleasure and joy. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:26 | |
# They've got cars big as bars They got rivers of gold | 0:54:26 | 0:54:30 | |
# The wind blows right through you It's no place for the old | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
# When you first took my hand on a cold Christmas Eve | 0:54:32 | 0:54:36 | |
# You promised me Broadway was waiting for me | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
-#You were handsome -You were pretty Queen of New York City... # | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
When "Fairytale" comes on, first I go, "Oh, no, not that again!" | 0:54:42 | 0:54:46 | |
Within a minute, I'm sucked into the song all over again as if I'm hearing it for the first time. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:51 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir Still singing Galway Bay... # | 0:54:51 | 0:54:56 | |
I want the families sitting round the Christmas table singing it. "OK, you be Kirsty and I'll be Shane!" | 0:54:56 | 0:55:04 | |
I'm proud of us | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
and everybody involved in it and Kirsty... | 0:55:09 | 0:55:14 | |
I'm proud of everybody involved with it. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
# You took my dreams from me When I first found you... # | 0:55:17 | 0:55:23 | |
It's a great Christmas song. You don't normally get Christmas songs that are so utterly hopeless. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:29 | |
# Can't make it all alone I've built my dreams around you | 0:55:29 | 0:55:35 | |
# The boys of the NYPD choir Still singing Galway Bay | 0:55:37 | 0:55:43 | |
# And the bells are ringing out For Christmas Day. # | 0:55:43 | 0:55:48 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:56:01 | 0:56:06 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 |