Forever Young: How Rock 'n' Roll Grew Up


Forever Young: How Rock 'n' Roll Grew Up

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This programme contains some strong language.

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From the moment it first fell on alarmed, old ears,

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it was clear that rock and roll was a young person's game.

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Music made by young people for young people that never intended to grow up or grow old.

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And yet, it did.

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So what happened as the music refused to die, and its performers refused to leave the stage?

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What happens when rock's youthful rebelliousness is delivered wrapped in wrinkles?

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These are the stories of Britain's first rock and roll generations

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and their struggle to stay forever young.

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# You know I'm born to lose And gambling's for fools

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# But that's the way I like it, baby I don't want to live forever... #

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The secret of longevity is not dying.

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It's easy, really. You know, just keep breathing at all times.

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Look at Keith. Dear old Keith.

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He looks like he's been dead for 40 years. Do you know what I mean?

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But everybody loves him. They say,

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"Is he still alive?"

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"Yeah." "Is he alive now?"

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"I'm not sure."

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When I walk on stage and I still put the capes on and I go out,

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age suddenly goes out the window.

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I am not 60 years old anymore.

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Admittedly, when I come off, it's slightly different.

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I don't go to a party, I normally go back to my hotel room

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and order a hot chocolate and watch the late night movie.

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I had a pair of leather trousers. I called them rubber trousers.

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And I wore them for the first time as a joke

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because I thought it was really amusing, this 50-year-old guy

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wearing leather trousers and I got all embarrassed.

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It probably looks like I think I'm a bit of a rock sausage guy.

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And they were...got rid of.

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Now I go out there in sensible clothes.

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We are the first generation who I think has cocked a snook at age.

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We have carried on being the oldest swingers in town

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and none of us are showing any signs

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of wanting to not go to rock concerts,

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not want to stay up all night, not want to take a lot of recreational drugs if we feel like it.

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We want to rock out but we've all got weak bladders now,

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so we don't want to be stuck in a long queue for the toilets like it was back in the 70s or 60s.

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# People try to put us d-down

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# Talkin' 'bout my generation

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-# Just because we get around

-# Talkin' 'bout my generation

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# Things they do look awful c-cold

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# Talkin' 'bout my generation

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# I hope I die before I get old... #

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If the world wants them to come and sing,

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"I hope I die before I get old",

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35 years after they first recorded it,

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I think Pete Townshend is more than happy to do so

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and have a bunch of fans screaming, "Pete".

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-# Why don't you all f-fade away?

-# Talkin' 'bout my generation

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# Don't try and dig what we all say... #

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They were actually saying, "Hope I die before I get old".

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# Not trying to cause a b-b-big sensation

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# Talkin' 'bout my generation

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# Talkin' 'bout my g-g-g-generation. #

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Guys, you're old. What happened?

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What happened started in the 50s, when an entirely new species emerged with its very own music.

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They were called teenagers and their music was called rock and roll.

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The jazz critic Brian Case once said

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before teenagers, there was just this transition between boy and man

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and he called it, Brian called it, junior man.

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And there was suddenly a group called youth.

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When you're between the age of 12 and 18,

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that's where music in general is going to have its most powerful impact on you.

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You're going through a rather treacherous path with puberty and post-adolescence.

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The music that they latch onto, it represents who they are or who they want to be.

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Pop music started a lot of things.

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It's spurred that wonderful thing, which is the joy of every young person, of their

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parents shouting up the stairs, "Turn that bloody racket down".

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One of the social functions of rock has always been defiance of the older generation

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and fencing off a particular kind of experience

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that young people have for themselves.

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Elvis certainly loved his mum, but...

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his every gesture, his every note,

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was all about social disenfranchisement and rebellion.

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Here's this guy who wears weird clothes.

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He wears pink and black, for heaven's sake, like a pimp.

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Um...great.

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I think what rock and roll invented was a teenager as an end in itself.

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As a kind of final product.

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As a flower of human life.

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Some of these wild young flowers

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were picked for rock and roll stardom

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by a business now trading in youth.

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You always heard these stories that people in English showbusiness were sort of discovered.

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Someone was driving along in a car

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and they saw this really good-looking kid on the side of the street and they said,

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"Get in the car, I'll make you a star".

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Well, none of my friends would have got in the car.

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Unless they had really good sweets.

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The man with the best sweets in town was impresario Larry Parnes,

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who ran a stable of hopeful performers.

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All you needed to gain entry was to be young, male and good looking.

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Once in, Uncle Larry re-christened you for the new youth market.

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Hello, Larry Parnes speaking.

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Marty Wilde was Reggie Smith.

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Vince Ego, Duffy Power, Billy Fury.

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He wanted to change my name, would you believe, to Elmer Twitch.

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Honest. And I said, "I don't think so, Mr Parnes."

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Thank you too, mate.

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Well, that just about wraps it up, doesn't it?

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Georgie Fame, Lance Fortune, Dickie Pride,

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and if you saw them when you were a young, as I did,

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they were the only musicians that could play rock in the country, the people that played with them.

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They were all sort of handsome, pure-skinned guys that all the girls screamed at.

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It was very much aimed at the girls.

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The music wasn't taken seriously and it wasn't meant to last.

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It was only the soundtrack to growing pains,

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temporary and disposable, just like the people who made it.

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The newspapers gave rock and roll, as it were, "We give this six months".

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A hit or a miss?

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There they are. They've said undoubtedly that it's a...

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All right. Onto the next.

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Nobody ever thought that the pop thing ever had more than, like, a quick innings. Like a short...

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"We'll have a look at it and then we'll get rid of them."

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Do you think that you've got a good chance of being on stage still at 45, say?

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I hope to. I don't know about my chances.

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They probably thought, "This will last for a couple of years

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"and then I'll go back on the coal".

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I think Hank and I wanted desperately to have a career somehow.

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Didn't know how.

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We just wanted to be up there.

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Hank was the first real, young,

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talented, seriously talented, player

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that came up with exciting, fresh stuff, solos and stuff,

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and we were British, so we were the British rock and roll bit.

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We started writing, Hank and I, at 16, which was really...

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it was crap. But we were writing.

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Like, I was 15 and I was in a band and we had a number one record

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and I went to the bank and, you know, I thought, "I'll get a loan and maybe buy a car and everything".

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"Well, what is your income for next year"?

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"Income for...I don't know." "Next."

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The grown-ups remained doubtful

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that the Beatlemania gripping British youth in the early 60s

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was a fever that would last.

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# Twist and shout

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# C'mon, c'mon, c'mon, baby... #

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Even The Beatles accepted the idea of their own in-built obsolescence.

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There's a great interview with the Beatles around 1964 or 1965

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where Lennon and McCartney are saying, "Well..."

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Obviously we can't keep playing the same sort of music until we're about 40

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because when we're old men playing From Me To You,

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nobody's going to want to know at all about that sort of thing.

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"Another couple of years and then John and I will write songs for other people, younger people".

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The new tyranny of youth meant that by 1963, The Shadows already seemed middle-aged.

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By the time the Beatles came, we'd been going nearly five years then.

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We were like the Rat Pack because we were in tuxedos, silk shoes,

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frilly shirts, bow ties.

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It was like Dean Martin on lead guitar, Frank singing.

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Whereas all the new stuff, the Beatles with their hair

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and the funny collars, they were cool, they were young.

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We were like, we were the establishment.

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When the Manfreds formed, I was the youngest one in the group.

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Manfred said, as we were rehearsing

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in his terrifyingly cold flat in south-east London...

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.."Man, we're going to be bigger than The Shadows".

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And I thought, "Well, of course we are.

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"Because they're old."

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And of course, they were two years older than me.

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# And tonight, you would hear

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# The saddest song of the year

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# And you'd be mine once again come tomorrow. #

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In 1965, The Who recorded one of the ultimate anthems to youth.

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One that damned growing up and growing old.

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The young went on the offensive, claiming their territory through guitar, bass and drums.

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With me, it was like, bam, OK.

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You either like it or you don't.

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Rock was full impact music

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for young people who wanted to go out, have a good time,

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have sex, spend a bit of money,

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create tribes for themselves, whether it was the mods and the rockers, you name it.

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They wanted music that related to their condition

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and was on the cutting edge

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of the youth experience in whatever era they lived through.

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The older generation were still recovering from a world war and just wanted some peace and some quiet.

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To the younger generation, old age just seemed boring.

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Our image of it was our image of our parents and so that's what we thought age was,

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a father who was coming up for retirement,

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certainly by the middle-late 60s they would be retired.

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The extent of their activity would be going fishing, pottering in the garden.

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So, it was very much a kind of a life that had folded down

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and had stopped being in any way innovative

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and in any way full of changes.

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I think the whole point about the baby boom generation

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was that we made it up from the beginning

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and we've been making it up ever since

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and we've been pushing those barriers forward

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and refusing to accept the idea of being old.

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# Hope I die before I get old. #

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How long do you think audiences are going to go on accepting this music that hasn't got any quality?

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Don't you think people are going to suddenly come to the conclusion...

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What has got quality in the pop business?

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What's got quality in anything? It's just a matter of standard.

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In the pop business, we're lucky that there are no standards, you know.

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In My Generation, you wrote, "I hope I die before I get old".

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-Do you in fact mean this?

-Yes.

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He wasn't saying that, "That is the case", he was saying that that is how young men feel.

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He was reflecting a kind of new confidence in being young.

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Ironically, the British beat boom of the mid-60s was, to a large extent, based on music that was already old.

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Bands like The Stones, The Animals and Manfred Mann worshiped American blues of the 20s, 30s and 40s.

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# I'm in a mood, baby... #

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Their recording heroes were still alive, but were, by rock and roll's new standards, old men.

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The first music I listened to was jazz

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and then when I started to listen to blues, people were all mature.

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Miles Davis was born in 1925. Charlie Parker, likewise.

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Muddy Waters was born in 1914 or something.

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I thought, "I don't care about young people, anyway."

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Youth culture, youth movement,

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youthful-isation of pop and all that,

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has always been mostly complete shit.

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It's just been about seizure and marketing of a folk movement

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by the same old commercial and industrial forces that take anything

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and try to just identify the most defenceless consumer.

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# I'll satisfy your every need

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# Every need... #

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The narcissistic rebelliousness of British rock and roll,

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young, gifted and white, gathered speed with The Rolling Stones.

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# Let's spend the night together... #

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While The Who were busy burying the older generation,

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The Stones were singing about finding their satisfaction in sex.

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-# Let's spend the night together.

-# Come on, baby. #

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'Obviously, you know, rock and roll, especially when you're a young band,'

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there's a lot of testosterone flying around.

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It has all those great sexual connotations.

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Largely, the rock and roll myth has been built up around that sexual thing as well, which is very true.

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I'm meeting audiences today that probably,

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even with the help of Viagra, they're not going to be into sex, but they still love the music.

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# Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64? #

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The arrival of album culture in the late 60s

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proved that rock and roll was now thinking more in the long term.

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It didn't sound disposable any more.

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It was growing up, just like the people who made it.

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The Beatles' Sgt Pepper's album dared to imagine what life would be like at 64,

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completely unthinkable for My Generation.

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People did think Sgt Pepper was going to last.

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They might not have thought that Beatles For Sale was going to last,

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cos that was still a pop record,

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but I think by the time they'd spent £13,000 recording Sgt Pepper's,

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they weren't expecting that to be toast by Christmas.

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It went serious.

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Quite a bit serious.

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The 20-year-old experienced musicians

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started to take things a bit seriously and think, "Where can we go, what's different?"

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Of course, it dragged along the kids as well, but only of a certain age.

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People were able to... They were growing up with these bands

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and they were able to sort of

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appreciate a bit more depth lyrically and musically.

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# That her face at first just ghostly

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# Turned a whiter shade of pale. #

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I always did think that "Somebody is going to be listening to this

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"in five years' time", you know, ten years' time.

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If rock and roll was attempting to grow up, the grown ups weren't having it.

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They're response to this more mature form of musical expression was just as parental.

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These new, better educated kids on the block should still be seen but not heard.

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Daddy had spoken.

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I remember seeing the Pink Floyd when Syd Barrett was in the group being interviewed.

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It was the only televised interview with Syd Barrett, in fact,

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and Roger Waters is sitting next to him

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and here's some crusty old kind of Swiss,

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bad classical composer saying, "Well, it's all too loud. It's all too...I can't...".

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For me, frankly, it's too loud. I just can't bear it.

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I happen to have grown up in the string quartet, which is a bit softer.

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So, why has it got to be so loud?

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Just being totally condescending and they're sitting there

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and they're trying to defend themselves at the same time.

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I mean, everybody listens. We don't need it very loud to be able to hear it.

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Some of it is very quiet, in fact. Personally, I like quiet music just as much as loud music.

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The end of the 60s saw the beginning of the rock and roll casualty list.

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The death of Brian Jones in 1969 seemed to crystallise a live fast, die young attitude,

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and brought a new reality to, "Hope I die before I get old."

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There has long been in human culture the tradition of sacrificing the young men.

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It's a recurring theme.

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Mozart, Jesus and Charlie Parker all died in their mid-thirties.

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If you really want to be a rock star, die young, because then you've fulfilled your role.

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Your only role was to be young.

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Yeah, I was thinking of writing a song called 27 Forever

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cos Jimi died when he was 27, Janis and Jim Morrison, you know.

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that will be the chorus,

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# 27 forever! #

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I tried living fast and dying young and it just didn't work.

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The closest I got to death was on LSD and I realised it was the drug.

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It wasn't real.

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I was only living for the moment, that's for sure.

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And, in fact, I had the youth ideology. I didn't expect to live long.

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I didn't even learn to do anything properly. I couldn't see the point,

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since I had no intention of living long enough to need to know anything very much.

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The 1960s were a vertiginously steep learning curve for me. And I didn't get anything right.

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In a way, I suppose people expected casualties at that point

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because it still was a risky business,

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even if you were only a risk to yourself.

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When Syd Barrett had his LSD-induced breakdown, there hadn't been any LSD-induced breakdowns.

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Even Jimi Hendrix or Jim Morrison, with all those people,

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I feel like their demise was part of their trajectory.

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They weren't cut off.

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Basically, my youth was...

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I consider it a failure as an event in itself.

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I had to live longer to get anything done.

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That's all I know. I had to live this long

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in order to just to get every third or fourth track on every third or fourth record I make spot on.

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# You'll be different in the spring

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# I know you're a seasonal beast

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# Like the star fish that drift in with the tide

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# With the tide

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# So until your blood runs

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# To meet the next full moon

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# Your madness fits in nicely

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# With my own, with my own

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# Your lunacy fits neatly with my own. #

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It's perfectly accepted for everyone, from poets to politicians, that they mature as they get older.

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This is expected.

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Especially in really important things like wine and brandy and...serious stuff.

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The Stones themselves seemed determined to mature.

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After the death of Brian Jones, they picked themselves up and went back on the road.

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For the band, it wasn't over yet.

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The Stones had been in serious decline at least three or four times,

0:22:280:22:31

where, musically, they've been at a dead end

0:22:310:22:35

and I don't know if it's Jagger or Richards or whoever,

0:22:350:22:38

but someone has picked them up by the scruff

0:22:380:22:41

and said, "OK, now we're going to be this."

0:22:410:22:43

# Oh, get down brown sugar

0:22:430:22:47

# Just like a young girl should

0:22:470:22:50

# Oh, get down, get down, brown sugar

0:22:500:22:54

# How come, how come, how come... #

0:22:540:22:58

If The Stones had discovered the secret of survival, at least for now, The Beatles didn't.

0:23:070:23:13

As if to prove that longevity in rock and roll was still a struggle

0:23:150:23:19

for a group of young men growing up together, they split in 1970.

0:23:190:23:24

You know, I was a kid, I was a young kid

0:23:270:23:30

and I saw the Beatles go to London

0:23:300:23:32

and one meets Jane Asher and one meets Patti Boyd

0:23:320:23:35

and then they stop hanging around together

0:23:350:23:37

because you probably don't want to hang around with Ringo

0:23:370:23:41

when you've got Patti Boyd or Jane Asher waiting, you know what I mean?

0:23:410:23:45

So, I was there. They hung out together, seriously.

0:23:450:23:49

They'd be in the dressing room behind at Top of the Pops,

0:23:490:23:53

writing Paperback Writer, two of them, you know, two lads,

0:23:530:23:58

and bit by bit they were separated by their careers and the money

0:23:580:24:03

and they moved to another city, they weren't exposed to the same... You see it all the time.

0:24:030:24:08

You know, people make it and they leave behind what it was that made them what they are.

0:24:080:24:15

I mean, Paul McCartney, it was a very gentle slope down, if you like.

0:24:150:24:21

Lennon never really recovered from Primal Therapy.

0:24:210:24:24

Even Harrison, who had been desperate to get out of the Beatles,

0:24:240:24:27

once there were no Beatles to compete against, somehow,

0:24:270:24:30

didn't seem to have anything to compete with.

0:24:300:24:32

The Fab Four would go on to enjoy successful solo careers for many years to come.

0:24:350:24:39

But would the surge of creativity that fed them in their youth

0:24:390:24:43

prove more elusive for them and their generation as they grew older?

0:24:430:24:47

Mick Jagger and Pete Townshend and Paul McCartney can go play arenas 40 years after they first had hits.

0:24:520:25:00

Great.

0:25:000:25:02

But...they ain't writing good songs. You know.

0:25:020:25:07

The outpouring of creativity that creates this career

0:25:070:25:12

is a factor of youth.

0:25:120:25:14

I don't think it's depressing to admit

0:25:140:25:16

that you're probably going to do your best stuff

0:25:160:25:19

by the time you're 30 as a musician.

0:25:190:25:20

I think most people get it right in their first and second albums.

0:25:200:25:25

# Something tells me I'm into something good

0:25:250:25:31

It's rare that beyond that, people don't just do another version of the same stuff.

0:25:310:25:38

# Something good Oh yeah, something good... #

0:25:380:25:42

You don't need the hardening of the synapse to be a great musician,

0:25:420:25:48

you know, or to write a good song.

0:25:480:25:50

No performer of the early 70s demonstrated rock and roll's

0:25:530:25:56

reliance on youthful invention and raw power more than Iggy Pop.

0:25:560:26:01

As I'm older,

0:26:030:26:04

I don't think I can write a rock song like I used to.

0:26:040:26:08

I can sing it good.

0:26:080:26:11

I can sing one of my own songs better than anybody else,

0:26:110:26:15

but to write a new one, it is hard to get them that good

0:26:150:26:19

because you don't have the animal energy to work with.

0:26:190:26:23

You don't have the same amount of animal energy.

0:26:230:26:27

I find. I'm being honest.

0:26:270:26:28

But not all rock and roll of the early 70s was an expression

0:26:310:26:35

of sexual energy and youthful physicality.

0:26:350:26:38

By now, prog rock was plundering the classical music collections

0:26:400:26:44

so beloved of its middle class parents

0:26:440:26:46

as proof of its intention to last,

0:26:460:26:49

while its perpetrators contemplated careers beyond the age of 30.

0:26:490:26:53

I remember when I started in the 60s and doing things.

0:26:560:26:59

People said, "What are you going to do when you're in your 20s?"

0:26:590:27:02

I said, "Don't know".

0:27:020:27:03

And then when you're still doing it in your 20s, they say,

0:27:060:27:08

"What are you going to do in your 30s"? I said, "I don't know".

0:27:080:27:11

Then you find you're in your 30s and people say, "What are you going to do in your 40s? You go,

0:27:130:27:18

"There's a reasonable chance I could still be doing this".

0:27:180:27:21

As a result, performers found themselves living with their songs and growing into their material.

0:27:240:27:32

I go through stages where there's certain songs

0:27:350:27:38

that it's, "Oh, no, I cant do that again".

0:27:380:27:41

And then, I've been doing it so long, it goes around in a circle

0:27:410:27:46

and it comes back into fashion again, you know.

0:27:460:27:50

We Got To Get Out Of This Place has been, like, so successful at different times and spaces.

0:27:500:27:55

It was the most successful song that troops requested constantly for 10 years in Vietnam.

0:27:550:28:02

# We got to get out of this place, baby

0:28:020:28:05

# If it's the last thing we ever do... #

0:28:050:28:07

And then it faded away and went away again.

0:28:070:28:11

And then Iraq, all the troops requested We Got To Get Out Of This Place.

0:28:110:28:15

# We got to get out of this place... #

0:28:150:28:19

It's a written in the contract. "We want him to come down here

0:28:190:28:22

"but he's got to sing We Got To Get Out Of This Place".

0:28:220:28:24

It's written in the contract. It's weird.

0:28:240:28:27

And there's a wonderful, wonderful version by Joni Mitchell

0:28:270:28:32

of a song that she did when she was young, Both Sides Now.

0:28:320:28:35

It's an eye wateringly wonderful song.

0:28:350:28:38

# Bows and flows of angel hair

0:28:380:28:42

# And ice cream castles in the air... #

0:28:420:28:47

And she sang it began in her 50s, I think about an octave lower, with an orchestra.

0:28:480:28:55

# I've looked at clouds that way

0:28:550:28:57

# But now they only block the sun... #

0:28:580:29:02

It's so moving because you think it's taken her three decades

0:29:020:29:08

and now she understands the song she wrote when she was in her youth.

0:29:080:29:11

# So many things I would have done

0:29:110:29:15

# But clouds got in my way

0:29:180:29:20

# I've looked at clouds from both sides now

0:29:230:29:28

# From up and down and still somehow

0:29:280:29:33

# It's cloud illusions I recall

0:29:330:29:37

# I really don't know clouds

0:29:400:29:43

# At all. #

0:29:480:29:49

In 1976, before the 60s generation had a chance to mature,

0:29:540:29:58

they were rudely thrust aside by punk.

0:29:580:30:00

Either you make a punk record or we don't know what to do.

0:30:010:30:05

You have to just pack up, go, go and do something else.

0:30:050:30:08

It was a three-chord reign of terror. The ultimate Oedipal act,

0:30:080:30:11

snarling, spitting and clawing its way to the stage.

0:30:110:30:16

It was best to just keep a low profile for a while.

0:30:160:30:21

These weren't kids of the optimistic 60s, but a new, young generation who felt abandoned.

0:30:210:30:28

Everyone was in their way, and, as always, no-one understood them.

0:30:280:30:33

-I know what I would do with them.

-What would you do with them?

-Give them a bloody good hiding.

0:30:330:30:37

I went to the Roxy Club when I was about 16,

0:30:380:30:40

which was the big punk club, and there was a band on called Eater.

0:30:400:30:44

I think the average age of them was 14.

0:30:440:30:46

So, yeah, there was a definite feeling that it was a time for young people.

0:30:460:30:50

Punk represented the kind of reckless joy

0:30:520:30:55

that I remembered that we had at that age, when we were young.

0:30:550:31:00

That recklessness of youth, I think, is a great, valuable contribution of new youth culture.

0:31:000:31:06

You think, "Blimey, I've forgotten to be that brave."

0:31:060:31:09

When punk came along, I felt too old.

0:31:090:31:11

I thought, I can't pretend the Beatles never happened.

0:31:110:31:15

I don't think music began with Siouxsie and the Banshees.

0:31:150:31:18

All of the main people in punk, John Lydon, The Sex Pistols,

0:31:200:31:24

The Clash, The Damned, they had a big thing for the Rolling Stones.

0:31:240:31:29

Joe Strummer, huge fan of the Stones.

0:31:290:31:31

The Who, all those groups, they loved them.

0:31:310:31:35

It was just a pose on their part to say, you know, they're passed it.

0:31:350:31:39

# No Elvis, Beatles or the Rolling Stones... #

0:31:390:31:43

One of the problems is, when you're young, you're part of that group.

0:31:450:31:50

You run things.

0:31:500:31:52

It's very easy to forget that coming up underneath is the next lot and then one day, you sort of, like,

0:31:520:31:59

fall of the end of the cliff and drop down and they take over

0:31:590:32:02

and when you look back up at the cliff, you think,

0:32:020:32:04

"Oh, shit, is this what's going on"? What happens is,

0:32:040:32:08

they'll just pelt stuff down. They'll just drop rocks on you.

0:32:080:32:12

# No more heroes any more No more heroes any more... #

0:32:120:32:18

I suppose it was an easy target in those big punk rock groups.

0:32:180:32:22

They just were, because, if you had no money and you were playing in your local pub,

0:32:220:32:26

you weren't going to be wearing a great big cape and have 44 keyboards, of course.

0:32:260:32:30

Now you see punks who are 40 years old, plus,

0:32:310:32:35

and time is a great leveller and you look at these guys

0:32:350:32:39

who've still got the sort of things through their nose and stuff

0:32:390:32:43

but, you know, time has made them more mature

0:32:430:32:48

and given them some perspective on who they are as human beings.

0:32:480:32:52

I sort of like that. I think that's nice.

0:32:520:32:54

I like to see old punks. It warms my heart.

0:32:540:32:58

This should've been our next single, but they wouldn't play it on the radio.

0:32:580:33:01

It's called Too Much, Too Young.

0:33:010:33:03

# You done too much, much too young

0:33:050:33:07

# You're married with a kid When you could be having fun with me

0:33:070:33:11

# Oh, no, no gimme no more pickni. #

0:33:110:33:16

The bands of the post-punk era, though less dismissive of the past,

0:33:160:33:20

still believed that rock and pop music were part of an essentially young experience.

0:33:200:33:24

Only now, that experience was of Thatcher's Britain,

0:33:240:33:28

one that the older generation of established bands seemed to ignore.

0:33:280:33:32

When I was 16, my favourite act was Elvis Costello,

0:33:350:33:37

and you're just talking about five years' difference.

0:33:370:33:40

It's big when you're young.

0:33:400:33:42

So he seemed like an old geezer to me

0:33:420:33:44

and I don't think that it was so much that you were looking for someone who had a similar age,

0:33:440:33:48

I think you were looking for someone that could speak for you, really.

0:33:480:33:52

When you're 14, you do think someone who is 28 is really old, and certainly 30 is way past it.

0:33:520:33:57

I think I remember saying at the time is, even when I wrote Baggy Trousers when I was probably about 19, saying,

0:33:570:34:03

"I will never sing this song when I'm 30, because I'll be too old".

0:34:030:34:07

# The headmaster's had enough today

0:34:070:34:09

# All the kids have gone away Gone to fight with next door's school

0:34:090:34:12

# Every term, that is the rule

0:34:120:34:14

# Sits alone and bends his cane Same old backsides again

0:34:140:34:17

# All the small ones tell tall tales

0:34:170:34:18

# Walking home and squashing snails... #

0:34:180:34:20

But no, the feeling was that if you were over 25,

0:34:200:34:23

you were too old to be in a band, certainly when I started.

0:34:230:34:26

# Oh what fun we had But at the time it seemed so bad

0:34:260:34:30

# Trying different ways to make a difference to the days... #

0:34:300:34:33

I do believe I'm a better act older than I was younger.

0:34:330:34:38

That doesn't mean to say that you haven't already written the best song you're going to write,

0:34:380:34:43

but I think there's a greater depth to being a performer than just the writing part.

0:34:430:34:48

# All I need was the love you gave

0:34:480:34:52

# All I needed for another day

0:34:520:34:56

# And all I ever knew

0:34:560:35:00

# Only you. #

0:35:000:35:02

It's having a greater understanding of emotion, of sex,

0:35:020:35:06

of all of those things

0:35:060:35:07

that allow you to put a message across, or to communicate.

0:35:070:35:11

To communicate, I think, you know. I've become a better communicator.

0:35:110:35:15

In the early '80s, The Stones were back, again, having been absent from the stage for six years

0:35:180:35:24

while punk and its aftermath had been the centre of attention.

0:35:240:35:27

They were proving that they were in for the long haul.

0:35:270:35:30

No-one was going to call, "Time, gentlemen, please" on them.

0:35:300:35:33

# Under my thumb

0:35:330:35:35

# There's a woman

0:35:350:35:37

# Who once had me down... #

0:35:370:35:40

Knocking on 40. How old are you now?

0:35:400:35:42

I'm 38, so I'm not 40.

0:35:420:35:44

Er, I think I could do this particular kind of physical show

0:35:440:35:48

for about another...say five years.

0:35:480:35:53

So, I said to myself last year,

0:35:530:35:57

I figure I can only do it for five years, this kind of show.

0:35:570:36:00

After that it's going to look like Barry Manilow,

0:36:000:36:02

or, I can still sing, but you know, I can't do all this other nonsense.

0:36:020:36:06

How would you feel if it suddenly all started to fade

0:36:060:36:08

and suddenly they'd had enough?

0:36:080:36:09

It doesn't happen like that, does it?

0:36:090:36:11

It sort of slowly, slowly they sink into oblivion.

0:36:110:36:19

It doesn't all stop and no-one comes, you know what I mean?

0:36:190:36:23

But I can understand your fears for me, but still,

0:36:230:36:26

you know, we'll soldier on, you know?

0:36:260:36:29

Thank you. Good evening. It's so nice to be back.

0:36:290:36:36

In July 1985 the benefits of soldiering on

0:36:360:36:39

reached unexpected and unprecedented heights with Live Aid.

0:36:390:36:44

The international event sometimes looked like a rock and roll Dads Army

0:36:440:36:48

as acts like Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, The Who

0:36:480:36:51

and The Beach Boys joined pop stars of the '80s on stage.

0:36:510:36:55

Watched by more than 400 million viewers in 60 countries,

0:36:580:37:02

this was the rock and roll survivors' finest hour.

0:37:020:37:06

Suddenly, being 40 no longer meant being uncool.

0:37:060:37:09

These were the masters, the legends,

0:37:110:37:15

the acts deemed capable of feeding the world.

0:37:150:37:18

Now some years ago within spitting distance of the stadium,

0:37:180:37:22

four Londoners formed a band to speak for their generation.

0:37:220:37:26

They eventually spoke for two. Now they sing to save a third.

0:37:260:37:31

Please welcome The Who!

0:37:310:37:33

The previous establishment, did come back in.

0:37:350:37:38

They did poke their heads above the parapet again.

0:37:380:37:42

And, of course, it was ideal for anybody that was still capable

0:37:450:37:49

of playing and singing from an older school.

0:37:490:37:52

What was your... Your opposition now was the New Romantics.

0:37:520:37:57

I mean, easy job.

0:37:570:37:58

I have the pleasure of introducing to you a group that's been together for 25 years.

0:37:580:38:05

A lot of young people heard some bands for the first time,

0:38:050:38:12

some older bands, and went, "These are fantastic!"

0:38:120:38:16

And then the most hated people in their musical vocabulary, their parents, said,

0:38:160:38:23

"We love them, too."

0:38:230:38:26

I'd like to welcome Alison Moyet!

0:38:260:38:29

I was picked up in a helicopter with Bono and David Bowie, which was, like, you know.

0:38:310:38:35

When I get out of the helicopter I've got Roger Daltrey waving at me

0:38:350:38:39

and Freddie Mercury blowing me kisses and it's like, these are, you know, bona fide stars.

0:38:390:38:45

I mean, these are the real deal, do you know what I mean?

0:38:450:38:48

And, um, so that was kind of a, blew me away, but maybe all it does,

0:38:480:38:53

putting those people back on the stage again,

0:38:530:38:55

is just reminding people that they really loved those acts.

0:38:550:38:58

# Someone still loves you. #

0:38:580:39:04

There were, of, course, no rules yet in place for how the older generation of rockers should behave.

0:39:090:39:14

How to grow old gracefully or disgracefully,

0:39:140:39:17

especially given their essentially youthful, often rebellious back catalogue.

0:39:170:39:23

The notion that an artist would be unsettled,

0:39:270:39:32

or even disturbed by the fact that having been a rebel in his youth

0:39:320:39:37

that he finds himself re-enacting it 10, 20, 30, 40 years thereafter

0:39:370:39:43

is, you know, an intellectual critic's construct that has no meaning in real life.

0:39:430:39:49

Real life happens in a series of nanoseconds that get strung out, you know, one after the other.

0:39:500:39:56

And moment by moment by moment...

0:39:560:40:00

people like to survive.

0:40:000:40:02

I mean, did these guys, you know, like their fathers, my father as well,

0:40:020:40:07

spend six years of the Second World War in a foxhole, you know, dodging bullets?

0:40:070:40:13

I mean, now that's something to survive, OK?

0:40:130:40:17

Taking a lot of drugs and lying on a ratty old mattress,

0:40:170:40:21

it's a lot easier to survive that.

0:40:210:40:23

# I can see it in your eyes Take one look and die. #

0:40:230:40:27

And survive they did, some despite the booze, the drugs

0:40:280:40:32

and a life spent almost entirely on the road. That's why we love them.

0:40:320:40:36

Motorhead's Lemmy may not have had to dodge bullets,

0:40:400:40:43

but by any reasonable standards he should be dead.

0:40:430:40:46

I've been on the road now, man and boy, for almost three years. I'm actually only 17.

0:40:490:40:56

I mean there's some days you don't feel like it as much as others,

0:40:570:41:00

but I'm sure that's much the same in plumbing, you know?

0:41:000:41:03

Some days you don't feel like standing up to your arse in cold water, you know?

0:41:030:41:07

Do you think it's a bit weird though?

0:41:070:41:09

There was all that, you know, live fast, die young thing in rock music earlier on.

0:41:090:41:13

A lot of them did, you know. It's fair enough. I didn't think of much of a plan really.

0:41:130:41:18

You know, I thought live fast, keep going. Much more fun.

0:41:200:41:23

My hair is not having a good day already.

0:41:250:41:29

I dye my hair. I don't understand why people keep their hair grey.

0:41:290:41:32

You're all right. Look at the job you're in. You're not in my job,

0:41:320:41:35

you know what I mean? I'm talking about people in my job.

0:41:350:41:38

There are people that get on stage and it looks like, I don't know,

0:41:380:41:42

Rip Van Winkle times four, you know?

0:41:420:41:46

But the lifestyle isn't a great one for surviving.

0:41:460:41:50

-It depends on how you approach it.

-How have you approached it?

0:41:500:41:53

From the side, usually.

0:41:530:41:55

On tiptoe, so it doesn't know you're there

0:41:550:41:57

and then you get your hands round the throat.

0:41:570:42:00

I, you know, I just, you have to be careful about what's offered,

0:42:000:42:05

you know? You can't do it all cos it'll kill you.

0:42:050:42:07

But, as I say, some people... are in the basket weavers hotel and some of us aren't, you know?

0:42:070:42:14

Do you think in the '60s people just thought, well, we don't care cos we don't want to get old anyway?

0:42:150:42:21

There was a sense of that, but then again,

0:42:210:42:24

you don't know if you want to get old until you get almost old.

0:42:240:42:29

That's when you decide on that one. "Oh, it doesn't look so bad now!"

0:42:290:42:33

-How is it possible to do what you do?

-How is it possible to stop?

0:42:330:42:39

It's what I am, you know? It's what I am, it's not what I do any more.

0:42:400:42:44

A long time ago it became what I am.

0:42:440:42:46

What had begun with Live Aid in the '80s continued into the '90s with projects like War Child.

0:42:500:42:56

Performers from three generations of rock and roll, Paul McCartney, Paul Weller and Noel Gallagher,

0:42:560:43:02

came together to record Come Together in the new spirit of multi-generational tolerance.

0:43:020:43:10

It was no longer a case of "my generation", but "your generation, too".

0:43:100:43:15

# Come together

0:43:150:43:18

# Right now

0:43:180:43:21

# Over me.

0:43:210:43:22

# Over me

0:43:220:43:25

# Over me. #

0:43:250:43:27

It wasn't only on stage that this spirit was at work.

0:43:270:43:30

Audiences for the music also began to span generations.

0:43:300:43:33

Every major band I know that reformed

0:43:370:43:39

said that if they had a pound for every time someone came along

0:43:390:43:42

and said, "There's two generations of the family here"

0:43:420:43:45

or "Three generations. There's the grandchildren, my kids and the wife and I."

0:43:450:43:51

And it's the only thing they've got in common. It's the only thing that links them together.

0:43:510:43:55

They're as old as your parents, but they don't exactly look or behave like them.

0:43:570:44:02

Rock and roll survivors can't act their age.

0:44:020:44:05

It just wouldn't work.

0:44:050:44:07

# Now last year I was 21

0:44:100:44:14

# I didn't have a lot of fun

0:44:150:44:17

# Now I'm going to be 22

0:44:190:44:21

# Well I say oh, my and boo-hoo

0:44:220:44:25

# Now I'm going to be 22

0:44:270:44:30

# Oh my, boo-hoo. #

0:44:300:44:32

It's just, this has been the most comfortable and free part of my life

0:44:320:44:37

and I suppose this is the only part of my life

0:44:370:44:40

in which I've attained possession of all the cliches

0:44:400:44:45

that young rock stars are supposed to have.

0:44:450:44:49

Beautiful sexy chick, long legs, check.

0:44:490:44:54

A fantastic hot convertible car, check.

0:44:550:45:00

House in the country, check.

0:45:020:45:04

Place in the islands, check.

0:45:040:45:07

Really good band, check. Fans, check.

0:45:070:45:11

So, you know, so what if my knee hurts?

0:45:160:45:19

I don't give a fuck! I don't care.

0:45:190:45:22

Yeah.

0:45:220:45:23

It's the travelling that's the bad part, you know, especially today.

0:45:270:45:32

But the thing is is that you put up with that

0:45:320:45:35

and you make sure you've got a good book

0:45:350:45:37

and you do your homework for the next gig

0:45:370:45:40

and you get up and walk around and moan and groan about your breaking back

0:45:400:45:46

and then when you get off and take a pill, fall asleep and wake up and you're in Budapest!

0:45:460:45:52

Hey-hey, you know. You get over it.

0:45:520:45:54

You're just swept along with it, you know,

0:45:550:45:59

until you either fry or sometimes die.

0:45:590:46:03

# I love you only

0:46:030:46:05

# I never have thought about any other woman

0:46:050:46:08

# Any other woman no... #

0:46:080:46:09

I don't practise. I don't rehearse.

0:46:090:46:12

# Some foolish thing Some simple thing I've done, girl!

0:46:140:46:18

I'm not a home going, "La, da, de, da, da", you know.

0:46:180:46:22

# Oh, please don't let me be misunderstood... #

0:46:230:46:28

My voice is right there when I call it up,

0:46:290:46:34

-it's

-never, ever not

-there.

0:46:340:46:36

We do think it's kind of peculiar that Mick Jagger

0:46:470:46:50

still snakes across the stage doing that wriggly hip dance.

0:46:500:46:54

You then, you look at the body and then you look at the face

0:46:560:46:59

and there's a kind of moment of disconnect.

0:46:590:47:02

But there's also a sort of, "Wow, gosh, well, that's great", you know.

0:47:020:47:06

He's 67 and he's still able to do that.

0:47:060:47:11

I think Mick Jagger is a better performer nowadays than he was in the '70s.

0:47:130:47:18

He goes out there and he really pulls out the stops.

0:47:180:47:23

He's an amazing performer,

0:47:230:47:25

and it's the same with Iggy. I mean, you're dealing with great performers.

0:47:250:47:29

You're dealing with some of the greatest performers of the 20th century.

0:47:290:47:33

It's one of those things that when you think about it a lot,

0:47:330:47:36

the more you think about it actually the odder it gets

0:47:360:47:39

that you're singing Let's Spend The Night Together and you're 67.

0:47:390:47:43

There's an uncomfortableness, I suppose, that people feel

0:47:430:47:46

when they think that somebody is, er, acting,

0:47:460:47:51

or their act asks you to pretend that they're still young.

0:47:510:47:58

I mean, there's nobody in the world that us old lefties admire more than Arthur Scargill,

0:47:580:48:03

but as his personal advisers we would have said, "Ditch the haircut."

0:48:030:48:08

And in the same way I think that Arthur Scargill and Mick Jagger have a similar,

0:48:080:48:12

create a similar slightly embarrassing frisson.

0:48:120:48:17

# I'll see you in my dreams

0:48:170:48:22

# Hold you in my dreams... #

0:48:240:48:30

I'll do anything that is actually applicable to a 68 year-old bloke

0:48:300:48:37

cos I've seen bands go out there and they just think they are teenagers.

0:48:370:48:41

They just go out performing teenage songs and they're old men

0:48:410:48:45

and I think it's undignified, you know?

0:48:450:48:48

Know what I mean? How can you do that?

0:48:480:48:51

How can you wear leather trousers when you're incontinent?

0:48:510:48:54

You can't get them off quick enough.

0:48:540:48:57

Especially when the wigs are all doing that!

0:49:000:49:04

# ..Were mine

0:49:040:49:05

# Tender eyes that shine... #

0:49:080:49:12

One particular song of mine that I don't perform called That's What Love Will Do.

0:49:120:49:19

It's all about a bloke sitting up the back row of the pictures with his 18 year-old bird.

0:49:190:49:23

I keep reminding myself I haven't been up the back row of the pictures

0:49:230:49:27

with an 18-year-old bird since I was, what? 18.

0:49:270:49:33

I think as you get older, you should be reflecting, you know,

0:49:340:49:37

just as a film-maker would reflect or a poet would reflect or a novelist would reflect, your age.

0:49:370:49:43

You should be, I think.

0:49:430:49:44

# Well come and do your worst, boy That's the way, that's the way

0:49:440:49:49

# Hit me where it hurts, boy That's the way, that's the way

0:49:490:49:53

# Come and do worst, boy That's the way, that's the way

0:49:530:49:58

# But I'll never give it up I'll never give it up... #

0:49:580:50:01

I write more songs about death, about losing friends.

0:50:010:50:06

I mean, you just can't help it. It's, er, death isn't that far ahead, you know?

0:50:060:50:11

It's closer than looking back the other way at this point.

0:50:110:50:15

# Hey, hey, hey, hey. #

0:50:150:50:18

While many acts soldiered on regardless,

0:50:180:50:21

others had slipped from view into semi-retirement.

0:50:210:50:24

But the new millennium witnessed the entirely new phenomena of the revival and the comeback.

0:50:240:50:30

Leonard Cohen, now in his 70s, had already decided to stop recording and performing altogether.

0:50:350:50:42

At least, that was his plan.

0:50:420:50:43

# Well he talks like this You don't know what he's after

0:50:460:50:51

# When he speaks like this you don't know what he's after... #

0:50:510:50:57

He goes to a Buddhist monastery

0:50:570:51:00

and retires from the world. He's never going to sing.

0:51:000:51:03

# Beneath the bridge that they are building on some endless river... #

0:51:030:51:08

While he's in the monastery, his manager steals all his money and he comes out and he's broke!

0:51:080:51:15

And, "What am I going to do?"

0:51:150:51:16

"You've got to go on the road, Leonard. That's what you've got to do."

0:51:160:51:20

-And now he turns up, he loves it.

0:51:200:51:22

# You can hear the birds go by You can spend the night beside her

0:51:220:51:29

# And you know she's half crazy

0:51:290:51:33

# That's why you want to be there

0:51:330:51:35

# And she feeds you tea and oranges

0:51:350:51:39

# That come all the way from China... #

0:51:390:51:41

He's making more money than God.

0:51:410:51:44

He's filling the O2 Arena for a week, or whatever it is,

0:51:440:51:48

and the Albert Hall for three nights and going and doing the same thing all over the world.

0:51:480:51:54

# You've always been her lover. #

0:51:540:51:57

And you can just tell by looking at this he's like a pig in shit!

0:51:580:52:02

He's just loving it.

0:52:020:52:03

It's like, "Why didn't anybody tell me I could have fun doing this?"

0:52:030:52:07

Audiences who had grown up and grown old with their heroes wanted them back.

0:52:120:52:17

Age had invested their favourite bands with a new authenticity.

0:52:200:52:25

Performers couldn't believe their luck.

0:52:250:52:27

Even Brian Wilson returned from the wilderness to be a Beach Boy once again.

0:52:270:52:31

# And God only knows what I'd be without you. #

0:52:340:52:38

Here's one called God Only Knows.

0:52:380:52:40

It was like the zeitgeist, understood.

0:52:470:52:51

"Ah, OK. That's how you do it."

0:52:510:52:54

You get the personality of the most important person who wrote the songs, who did the singing.

0:52:540:53:01

You put them in front. You've got a bunch of young virtuosi

0:53:010:53:04

to fill in the rest of the parts.

0:53:040:53:06

You don't worry about trying to get the rhythm guitar player out of rehab.

0:53:130:53:18

You just, you know, get the best young kids you can

0:53:210:53:25

and go out there and do it exactly the way it was on the record.

0:53:250:53:29

# The world could show nothing to me... #

0:53:290:53:31

You've got to have been away for quite a bit.

0:53:310:53:34

Have not done particularly much

0:53:340:53:36

and at the same time have a lot of myth around you.

0:53:360:53:39

Did he have psychedelic drugs and went off his head?

0:53:390:53:43

Did he write all that stuff?

0:53:430:53:45

Did he do it all himself? So, you know, there's a great big mystery surrounding the man.

0:53:450:53:49

He looked like Brian Wilson in some strange way.

0:53:510:53:55

Brian looked like a deer in the headlights, but he did everything and he was great.

0:53:550:53:59

A lot of the people that are of my age group that go to see these groups,

0:54:000:54:04

they want to be transported back to a time when they were young.

0:54:040:54:07

They want that. I could give a toss about being young.

0:54:070:54:11

Being young just got me into trouble.

0:54:110:54:15

The struggles of youth, you know. I mean, they're overrated.

0:54:150:54:19

This whole talk of youth, youth, youth, it's overrated.

0:54:190:54:22

Being a young just isn't that hot any more.

0:54:220:54:25

That's what it is.

0:54:250:54:27

# Cos when you're 15

0:54:270:54:29

# And somebody tells you they love you

0:54:290:54:33

# You're going to believe them... #

0:54:330:54:37

But the struggles of youth still find their most perfect expression in music.

0:54:370:54:43

The pop business is now younger than ever.

0:54:430:54:46

Kids are singing to kids again,

0:54:460:54:48

and the market has refocussed its attentions on young girls as its main consumers.

0:54:480:54:53

# Baby, no

0:54:530:54:55

# Baby, baby, baby, oh... #

0:54:550:54:59

It's a wrinkle-free Disneyfied world populated by beautiful performers.

0:54:590:55:03

Like their predecessors,

0:55:030:55:05

they're probably thinking that they won't be singing

0:55:050:55:08

about the problems of being 15 when they're 64.

0:55:080:55:11

But stranger things have already happened.

0:55:110:55:14

# Thought you'd always be mine. #

0:55:140:55:17

A hit or a miss?

0:55:170:55:19

There they are. They've said undoubtedly it's a...

0:55:190:55:23

All right. On to the next.

0:55:230:55:26

When McCartney, Dylan and The Stones

0:55:280:55:30

and Paul Simon and Crosby, Stills and Nash are unable to play any more,

0:55:300:55:36

when that generation goes, will classic rock continue, or will that be the end of it?

0:55:360:55:44

Or will people be sitting around in, you know, aquatic shopping malls

0:55:440:55:48

in 200 years time listening to Comfortably Numb?

0:55:480:55:52

I mean it's just, I don't know. Wait and see.

0:55:520:55:54

I haven't seen my birth certificate in years.

0:55:540:55:58

Get a life! Get swiftcovered.

0:55:580:56:01

Rock and roll is now revelling in a long life.

0:56:010:56:05

What was about risk and youth is now about enjoying a grand old age.

0:56:050:56:09

It's about longevity, survival, nostalgia and refusing to grow up, give up or shut up.

0:56:090:56:17

You ain't playing soccer for Manchester United when you're 64,

0:56:170:56:21

but you can play the stadiums when you're 64 in a rock band.

0:56:210:56:24

You really can.

0:56:240:56:25

Hank and I are on the way to 69.

0:56:250:56:28

And every night we're laughing, I'm looking across at Hank and thinking,

0:56:300:56:34

"I've been playing with him for 52 years. Since I was, you know."

0:56:340:56:39

You're looking across and he's laughing and me and we're doing a solo or something

0:56:390:56:44

and we're bouncing off each other and I think, "This is unbelievable, this is."

0:56:440:56:48

# Move it, move it, move it Move it, move it, move it

0:56:480:56:54

# Move it, move it, move it. #

0:56:540:56:56

I would never have quit.

0:56:570:57:00

That's the only attitude that's going to work,

0:57:000:57:04

and for a real artist it's that you're just not going to do anything else.

0:57:040:57:10

You're just not.

0:57:100:57:12

Why stop now when I have the best band that I've had in a long time?

0:57:120:57:18

That's my job, innit?

0:57:180:57:21

It's a job.

0:57:210:57:23

I signed up for it, I've got to do it, you know?

0:57:230:57:26

One, two, three, four.

0:57:260:57:29

I would like to live to a ripe old age because, er,

0:57:310:57:35

I've already said to my missus that after I've been burnt and slung somewhere

0:57:350:57:41

that if there's a gravestone anywhere it just has to read, "This isn't fair, I've not finished yet."

0:57:410:57:49

# Did your dreams die young?

0:57:490:57:53

# Were they too hard work? #

0:57:530:57:57

I've got about three years to go before I become a living legend.

0:57:570:58:01

They give you a special pass for the buses and things.

0:58:010:58:07

But suddenly your fee doubles and, um...

0:58:070:58:11

and people start noticing all that work you've been doing for years.

0:58:110:58:16

# Non, rien de rien... #

0:58:160:58:19

There was this movie came out just recently about Edith Piaf

0:58:190:58:24

and that put me on fire again and made me realise, like her,

0:58:240:58:30

please let me get to the stage just one more time!

0:58:300:58:37

And if you fuckers out there, if you've come to see me die,

0:58:370:58:41

well, it's not going to be tonight!

0:58:410:58:45

# Forever young

0:58:450:58:51

# Forever young

0:58:520:58:58

# May you stay

0:58:590:59:06

# Forever young. #

0:59:060:59:10

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