The Fall: The Wonderful and Frightening World of Mark E Smith


The Fall: The Wonderful and Frightening World of Mark E Smith

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Transcript


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I came top in English for two years. They never thought it was me.

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All the other Smiths got congratulated, except me.

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I like that. It's good being a Smith sometimes.

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You get away with murder, you know?

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This programme contains strong language.

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# We are the Fall We were spinning, we were stepping

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# Cop out, cop out As if from heaven

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# The difference between you and us Is that we have brains

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# Cos we're Northern white crap But we talk back. #

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How you doing? All right?

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# Bang fucking bang The mighty Fall. #

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RADIO: ..Radio 1 now with John Peel.

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Time for me to warn you that it is possible that in the next hour and 55 minutes or so,

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you may hear rough language or be introduced to concepts you find unwholesome.

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If this is a possibility, listen to something else.

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As regular listeners know, there are few words finer than, "Tonight, a new session from The Fall."

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We think it's the 24th, but we're not absolutely certain about it.

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Before I play the first track, an email from Chris Goodhead -

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"A quick message to say I've had a bloody awful week.

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"Nevertheless, I'm excited about another mighty Fall session.

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"Been to some recent shows - there's a great song about Harold Shipman.

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"They played Walk Like A Man. The bass player is now the guitarist.

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"All business as usual! Chaos, but good chaos."

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-What you doing now?

-Just trying to tune...

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They don't need tuning up. You just...fucking play 'em, innit?

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# Shout! #

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When they start saying they like The Fall, it's usually they've run out of ideas.

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I remember Wet Wet Wet saying that -

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"We're doing our own stuff, a bit like The Fall."

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It's like, "Shut the fuck up!"

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# I'm totally wired. #

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No-one exemplifies attitude more than Mark E Smith.

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He is attitude personified.

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# Yeah, yeah, industrial estate. #

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# I hear you Telephone Thing. #

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Mark's an inspirational character and also an awkward get, y'know?

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# A green eyed loco-man #

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His behaviour's become more mystifying and erratic since I left.

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People do use the word "genius" a lot, but I do think he's a genius.

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I think he's got talent, charisma, like it or not. He's not a nice guy.

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# He reads books... #

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We don't know anything about him, as fans.

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All we know is this absolutely distinct stage persona and voice.

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You can't compare other bands - nobody really sounds like The Fall.

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When bands do sound like the Fall, you go, "You're trying to rip off The Fall. Fuck off!"

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With The Fall you can never be absolutely certain what you're gonna get.

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Sometimes it may not be what you want, but it's still...

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They're The Fall, that's all you need.

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# I know, I know, I know I know, I know #

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..hopefully this will brighten up your evening for you a bit, from The Fall - Clasp Hands.

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Needs summat at the end, so just go da, da, da, da.

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Then sad, y'know. Just be yourselves.

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# All here Clasp your hands. #

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My dad's sort of attitude was,

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"You follow me into the business y'know, or go into the army,

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"otherwise you're a waste of bloody time", innit?

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I used to work for my dad in the school holidays...summer holidays.

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For about ten years, from when I was six till I was about 15,

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I worked for my Dad every bloody school holiday.

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I used to think he was a right bastard, but in a way it's good, y'know?

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He did virtually chuck me out the house, which...I liked that.

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Cos nowadays they can't get rid of the lads, can they?

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They stay at home till about 35, don't they? Must be awful, that.

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Must be hard - I couldn't do that. I couldn't bring up any kids.

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It's hard with the bloody group. That's enough for me!

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I formed me group, cos I wanted to write music and...

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I was laid off the docks and all this shit, y'know?

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So it was a way of earning money at the start.

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First group started just as three people.

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Friel,

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Bramah,

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Baines.

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They realised their true mission was to be in The Fall.

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ELECTRIC GUITAR RIFF

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We wasn't taken seriously in them days.

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It's a bit like now, you think you've gotta have a million quid

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before you start a group. It was a bit like that then.

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Talking '76.

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I was writing a lot, so it started as like a sort of poetry reading,

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pissing around, y'know what I mean?

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We used to meet up and hang out at my flat on Kingswood in Prestwich,

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and listen to music.

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We were into punk before punk.

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We were into the garage groups, like the early '60s groups, y'know.

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In 1974-75, you could like music like Iggy Pop, avant-garde jazz

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and electronic German music, all sorts of strange things.

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And that was in the air, anyway.

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People were putting bands together that had those weird influences.

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It just didn't have a focus, a name.

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It didn't have a sense it could be anything other than local.

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# I am an Anti-Christ... #

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The Sex Pistols coming up those two times completely shattered all that

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and made everything intimate and close and do-able.

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Those gigs galvanised Manchester musicians or wannabe musicians.

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# Anarchy! #

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People came out of the woodwork.

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Closet Stooges fans, rabid Captain Beefheart fans

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began to touch base with one another,

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and start making their own groups.

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In hindsight, they turned out to be Joy Division,

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The Fall, Morrissey.

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They turned out to be all sorts of interesting Manchester groups

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that didn't think they had it in them to be musicians, to be a group.

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# Anarchy! #

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Everybody went to the gig. But I mean, I did, so fucking what?

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# Psycho, psycho. #

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Well, we got involved in this North West Arts thing.

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It was like a musician's collective. It was like brass bands and...

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bird noises - there was a feller, did symphonies out of bird noises.

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Anybody could get up and do a performance.

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So, it really suited what The Fall were about at that time.

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We thought we'd just do what we were doing in the bedroom,

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like reading out poetry over a bass and a guitar.

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We got a drummer and it kicked off, y'know?

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After The Sex Pistols' gig, lots of strange things happened in the basement clubs in Manchester.

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Obviously, The Buzzcocks had started up

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and if you went to see Buzzcocks, there would be interesting support groups.

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# Spitting on the streets Numb heads and feet... #

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That was the big break, Richard Boon offering us support to The Buzzcocks.

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That's when we started doing regular gigs.

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# ..And the Psycho Mafia I'm talking about love... #

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They were startling.

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They had the thrift-store styling, totally anti-fashion,

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with the threadbare sweaters and the awful shirts.

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They were totally a garage band and they obviously had it.

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GUITAR STRUMMING

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Incredibly exciting if you knew Iggy Pop, Can and Captain Beefheart,

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cos it seemed to have the same thing going on -

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this crunching together of strange rhythms and odd shafts of sound,

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sort of cutting against it like bits of glass and a really peculiar guy at the front, ranting away.

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# ..I used to believe everything I read

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# But that's all changed and now I'm stepping out... #

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Once Spiral Scratch had been released

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and we'd been working with The Fall on a live, occasional basis,

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I thought it was important that their work was recorded too.

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Well, actually, you gotta say this, The Buzzcocks paid for our first recording.

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God bless 'em.

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I would have loved to have put it out myself,

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but things around Buzzcocks got commercially chaotic

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and I was distracted, so I gave them the tapes.

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Good evening! Welcome to What's On for World Cup Plus.

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I think Richard must have mentioned the band,

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and I certainly remember getting a copy of Bingo Master's Breakout,

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thinking this sounds bloody weird, like part of the explosion

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and I remember taking a film crew up to a basement in a house in North Manchester, in Prestwich.

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# Numb heads and feet

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# Got nowhere to go

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# Won't let us in the shows

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# We talk about love

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# And the Psycho-Mafia

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# I'm talking 'bout love... #

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Our music is offensive to a lot of people and coming from the North,

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you've got this inoffensive cap-touching attitude,

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which we're trying to break out of.

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I always think it was more attitude than music.

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I think that's what The Fall brought to Manchester.

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Again they brought this great oppositional thing, which is...

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They loathed wankers like me from South Manchester,

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and Mark E epitomised that.

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-Is it more than just the songs you're playing?

-It is more than the songs,

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cos the music is secondary really.

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The music scene does not communicate to people.

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We try to, that's where we fall down.

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# Well you started here to earn your pay

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# Yah, yah Industrial estate

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# Clean neck and ears on your first day

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# Yah, yah Industrial estate... #

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To this day, I'm not quite sure whether I like The Fall's music.

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But I like The Fall.

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I mean, just a song called Yah Yah Industrial Estate - fantastic!

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Originally, I thought...and I think everybody else would agree with this,

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we were just all equal members of a band.

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-Do you not get tired of being poor, though, lads?

-Dead tired.

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To not make a living out of it is...

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-And you don't make a living out of it, do you?

-No.

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ALL LAUGH

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Please give us some money(!)

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I think as The Fall evolved, it emerged as Mark, as very definitely, the voice of The Fall.

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It was a solo act, but it needed everybody around him.

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So it had a weird dynamic - that he couldn't have done it on his own.

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# Round, round Tapping feet to formless sound. #

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Give me your name, then. Well, give me your name, then.

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I met Kay through a friend. She worked at Prestwich hospital,

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the same time that I did and when she split up with her partner,

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she came to live with me.

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At that time, me and Mark were drifting apart -

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we were splitting up, really.

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And...they got together and she became The Fall's manager.

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What do you mean you want money? You're pirating my bloody stuff, Tony. What you talking about?

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I've paid for your equipment!

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Kay was the tough, abrasive one.

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She was the boss then.

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"Kay Carroll. Hello, love. Hello, lovey."

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Kay would get very drunk, and was even tougher than Mark

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and would jump on you, attack you and go on about the money,

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or generally act in a ridiculous way and one could be quite fond of her,

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but I was quite scared of Kay Carroll,

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in a way I've never been scared of Mark.

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He's being an arsehole and he's calling me, y'know what I mean?

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The idea of a manager seemed to be against the original ethos of The Fall, so that was a bit problematic.

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And Tony left. I left.

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And then a whole new Fall emerged.

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# Right Noise

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# We're gonna get really speedy. #

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Finally, Bingo Master's Break-Out was released,

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much later than anybody had intended.

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But there was a certain amount of redemption involved.

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Some critics got where The Fall were coming from.

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Well, it was my producer, John Walters, who first heard them

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and I think they were a support band at a gig in Croydon,

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and Walters heard them at that.

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And wrote a letter.

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John Walters wrote me a letter and said, "You are the worst group I've ever seen...

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"in the history of mankind."

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He was good like that, John Walters. Did you ever meet him?

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He was fucking fantastic.

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He said "You were the worst, tuneless rubbish I've ever heard.

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"Even worse than Siouxsie and the Banshees."

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This is what he wrote, "You're even worse than Siouxsie and the Banshees."

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I didn't believe it was possible, y'know what I mean?

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Ha ha ha! He's a gem. What a gem!

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He said, "Please do a session." Ha ha!

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Can you get 'em to start again, Geoff?

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-Pardon?

-Can you get 'em to start again?

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-Start over?

-Eh?

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I thought it was really good, this.

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-They get going...

-They're really having a really good groove.

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-Nah! Do it again, I say.

-Yeah?

-Let me have a word.

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Can we do it again, kids, with a bit of...? Hit it a bit harder.

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Rhythm section and the keyboards.

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Steve, you've gotta play a bit harder. You gotta be in tune and you gotta do it on the changes.

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You heard a taster of this earlier on.

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It'll be slightly louder now, I think. The Fall and Blindness.

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# I am losing my feet

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# Everywhere I look I see a blind man

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# I see a blind man. #

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To be realistic, you barely need anything else, do you?

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The 24th session for the programme as far as we know.

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The very first of them was recorded at Maida Vale on 30th of whichever the fifth month is,

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in 1978 and broadcast...

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The Fall were on their way to do a John Peel session

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and the bass player at the time, he'd had a few ups and downs, a guy called Eric Ferret

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and I think the point at which Eric was thrown out of the band

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was he decided he didn't want to come along to a Peel session.

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I was going along to help 'em with the gear and when we got back,

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I got a phone call from Mark asking me if I wanted to join.

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Now, bearing in mind, it was my favourite band, I was happy to be a roadie,

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and I was asked by Mark Smith to join The Fall and I was still 16 years old,

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and I didn't have to think long and hard before saying yes.

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Like, my granddad used to stand outside prisons and that,

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and then when they were released, say, "You work for me!" Ha ha!

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He's a bit like me.

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You know what I mean? "Oh, you play bass? Right, you're in."

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Don't have auditions or anything. Usually comes off right, actually, touch wood.

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I remember once we went to record Live At The Witch Trials - we ended up recording the album in a day.

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So, we were wandering around London, particularly Martin, Karl and I,

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and I remember them saying to me, "You're Mark's puppet, aren't you?"

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And I'm like, "What?"

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They're saying, "You'll do anything that he tells you, that's why he got you in."

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"We wanted our mate in." I'm going, "Oh, I'm sorry, but what can I do?"

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I think they were the seeds of the split in the band and it becoming

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not a load of mates, all pulling together and working together,

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but Mark wanting to foist his own intentions on everybody else.

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There's a matter of control, of direction, where they were going,

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and Mark had a fixed idea of how he wanted it to be portrayed.

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A year after I joined, Steve and Craig joined.

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And again, we were all in the same situation.

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We were there and happy to be Mark's foils and his backing band, really.

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Whereas Martin had already got disaffected with the whole thing -

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him and Mark being the core and the real creative force behind it.

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Martin had realised he was being sidelined,

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so he just had enough and went.

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It was a drastic old fucking time. I shit my pants.

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Not literally, when... I was scared to death.

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# Frightened... #

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The guys who I'd seen carrying the equipment on to the stage were suddenly playing.

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Cos Steve suddenly went onto bass and Craig Scanlon became a guitarist and Marc moved on to guitar.

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So there was this ever-changing movement of The Fall.

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I don't know how we ended up with them,

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just these really strange people from the other side of Manchester,

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who seemed to be really into the music.

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-Is there anybody there?

-AUDIENCE: Yeah!

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Dragnet was like...

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It was three nineteen-year-olds, y'know?

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Not even that, it was like fucking...

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Half the group wasn't even allowed to work, apparently.

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In them days.

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They were too young.

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At the time, we didn't know how young they were, because he would add years to the ages of the group.

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Cos they couldn't play in the pubs they were playing in, cos they were so young.

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I like to get 'em and tutor 'em, as if they were, I suppose, your own son.

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# Is quester psykick dancehall. #

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It's amazing what you can get out of them.

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It is incredible.

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To be honest, it wasn't till about the second or third record,

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or perhaps even the second or third session,

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that I started to think, "Actually, this is really something fairly astonishing."

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# Uh - containers And their drivers

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# Uh - containers And their drivers

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# Containers and their drivers. #

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It fitted in to the John Peel show, because it was made out of the John Peel show.

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It was a soundtrack that was based on listening to the John Peel show -

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the strange sense in the early '70s of listening to a show at night

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that would play things from around the world that were so exotic and strange.

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I first heard The Fall in about 1981 on John Peel.

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You listened to it in bed in the middle of the night,

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and I remember not really liking it.

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I just thought it was annoying and incomprehensible,

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but that itself became fascinating as you get exposed to it.

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It's fascinating - this superficially ugly music and these incredibly well-thought-out words.

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Mark uses language extraordinarily well and in such a way

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that you're perhaps made to think more deeply about something that you may have taken for granted,

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as a poet or a painter would - he just makes you think, "Actually, I never thought of it like that."

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He has an amazing eye for the mundane,

0:22:290:22:33

and at the same time for the complete strangeness and otherworldliness of things.

0:22:330:22:41

They were all caught up together, and seemed to come from some other place.

0:22:490:22:55

Politically, he's neither left nor right.

0:22:550:22:57

He sometimes espouses views you might think were right wing,

0:22:570:23:00

but then he'll come out with something that's extremely radical.

0:23:000:23:04

He's neither one or another.

0:23:040:23:06

He's critical, essentially, of everything and perhaps suspicious of everything as well.

0:23:060:23:11

I don't understand it -

0:23:110:23:13

which I think is the best way to write.

0:23:150:23:18

I'm still like that. I don't know what I'm writing about...

0:23:180:23:22

half the time.

0:23:220:23:23

I don't want to give my secrets away to these fucking idiots on the BBC. You understand that?

0:23:250:23:30

# We are all living leg-ends

0:23:360:23:41

# So close, my brain is imploding

0:23:410:23:46

# But everything is all right

0:23:460:23:49

# I am a rabbit from Germany

0:23:490:23:53

# I was very happy

0:23:530:23:56

# I could frolic around all night

0:23:560:24:00

# By the Leipzig station. #

0:24:000:24:03

Tonight of course, is a night for The Fall and this is What About Us?

0:24:030:24:08

# What about us? Shipman!

0:24:080:24:12

# What about us? Shipman!

0:24:120:24:15

# What about us? #

0:24:150:24:18

I am tempted to say this is possibly the best Fall session we've ever had,

0:24:180:24:23

but I probably say that about all of them. That was called What About Us?

0:24:230:24:27

Well, this is the lecturing part of the concert.

0:24:270:24:31

He likes to have a dominating influence, like a paternalistic influence over you,

0:24:370:24:44

very much like an old Victorian paternalistic boss.

0:24:440:24:48

Most of the time we just got on with it and pretty much did as we were told, didn't we?

0:24:510:24:55

-Yeah. At the beginning, yeah.

-At the beginning.

0:24:550:24:58

Gonna fucking put the monitors up for Christ's sake?

0:24:580:25:02

-It were like a matter of death, a Fall gig, wasn't it?

-Oh, yeah.

0:25:020:25:06

-It was...

-You couldn't be seen to enjoy yourself, could you?

0:25:060:25:11

I've never been in a room that so crackled with malevolence,

0:25:120:25:16

I mean we had our backs to the wall at the far end of the room,

0:25:160:25:20

extraordinarily grateful to have done so.

0:25:200:25:22

There was so much hostility and rancour.

0:25:220:25:24

I remember we did one gig, only a little club, but it was that low,

0:25:270:25:31

we couldn't hear what was going on the other side of the stage.

0:25:310:25:34

I couldn't hear Steve and Craig. They couldn't hear me, so me and Craig swapped sides.

0:25:340:25:39

# Up in a room, There's a cloud of smoke. #

0:25:390:25:42

Will you fucking get it together, instead of showing off.

0:25:420:25:45

We got a right bollocking when we got off.

0:25:450:25:49

"What you doing? Who do you think you are? You're not in a big rock combo.

0:25:490:25:52

"You're not in U2, swapping sides and messing about."

0:25:520:25:56

Mark's got a different idea. I don't think the guys grasp it.

0:25:560:25:59

Marc Riley's from a different background, his culture's different.

0:25:590:26:03

He thinks in terms of a conventional group, writing nice songs.

0:26:030:26:06

I don't think Mark Smith wants to be a pop artist or a rock star.

0:26:060:26:11

My relationship with Mark Smith started off brilliantly

0:26:110:26:15

and ended... not so brilliantly, really.

0:26:150:26:18

You could kind of see it coming, I think.

0:26:180:26:21

There'd been various arguments and fallings out,

0:26:210:26:25

and there seemed to be a lot of difference of opinion on how things should be done.

0:26:250:26:30

I was probably a bit more vocal about it, still not very vocal,

0:26:300:26:34

certainly not fist-flailing and fingers-pointing,

0:26:340:26:37

it'd be just like, "Excuse me, but we're not quite happy about that."

0:26:370:26:41

Mark Smith was quite critical of Marc Riley's playing and his attitude.

0:26:410:26:46

Marc Riley, he wanted to do stuff his way and I think that clashed.

0:26:460:26:55

He wanted to do the hits every night and that's not the group.

0:26:550:27:00

It was like, there's only one leader in The Fall - Mark, and I suppose Marc was a bit of a challenge.

0:27:000:27:05

He said we're going to Europe in a month. I went "All right, OK" and he says, "I don't want you to come."

0:27:050:27:11

I was like, "What?!" and he said "We're gonna do it without you."

0:27:110:27:15

I said, "Oh, right. OK."

0:27:150:27:18

He said, "If it don't go very well, we'll call you when we get back and you can rejoin the band."

0:27:180:27:23

And I'm like, "Right, OK" - in a daze, y'know?

0:27:230:27:28

The next thing I knew, it was about a month later, they were going to Europe.

0:27:280:27:33

I've still not had the phone call.

0:27:330:27:36

We just carried on, really. Kay was still the manager and she'd set this American tour up,

0:27:380:27:44

so we went and did that and Kay - I don't really want to say that, do I?

0:27:440:27:50

That Kay left Mark and then he met Brix, all on the same tour,

0:27:500:27:55

but that's how it happened!

0:27:550:27:58

# The man whose head expanded. #

0:27:580:28:04

She came up to me and said, "I don't like your records much,

0:28:040:28:08

"but what are your lyrics about?" We just got on. We got married.

0:28:080:28:13

-That's not what I said. I said...

-It's not exactly what you said.

0:28:130:28:18

Well, I thought you guys were brilliant,

0:28:180:28:20

but I can't understand your lyrics and they irritate me

0:28:200:28:23

because I can't understand them - is what I meant to say.

0:28:230:28:26

The story of The Fall and Mark E Smith over the last 25 years

0:28:260:28:29

has so much it's got to have a soap element,

0:28:290:28:32

it's got to have the Elizabeth Taylor and Burton element,

0:28:320:28:35

the Paul and Linda McCartney element.

0:28:350:28:37

It's gotta have that weird, odd sexual thing going on.

0:28:370:28:40

Again, it was the last thing you would have expected Mark E Smith to get involved in,

0:28:400:28:45

having his wife in the band.

0:28:450:28:47

# Kicker, kicker conspiracy

0:28:470:28:49

# Kicker, kicker conspiracy

0:28:490:28:51

# J Hill's satanic reign

0:28:510:28:53

# Ass-lickers King O'Team. #

0:28:530:28:56

It was like Fall's one of them things - always on the verge of splitting up, really.

0:28:560:29:00

So, Brix sort of brought a bit of new life back into it, I think.

0:29:000:29:05

Different ideas and y'know, it wasn't just miserable blokes from Manchester involved.

0:29:050:29:11

-# What's a computer?

-Eat y'self fitter

0:29:110:29:14

-# What's a computer?

-Eat y'self fitter. #

0:29:140:29:18

She brought a particularly different, American work ethic into the equation,

0:29:190:29:25

which is, "Get some money!"

0:29:250:29:28

"Try for a hit!"

0:29:280:29:30

I actually sacrificed my principles in order to get The Fall on television.

0:29:360:29:41

I wanted to pick somebody, a favourite of mine for years,

0:29:410:29:44

and funnily enough, they've never done national TV in this country before.

0:29:440:29:49

They've done local things, but never national TV,

0:29:490:29:51

which seemed to me to be shocking.

0:29:510:29:53

I quite wanted to go down in history as the man who put them on TV.

0:29:530:29:57

When they said, "How much do you want for coming on?"

0:29:570:30:00

I said, "Nothing, if I can pick a band to be on the programme."

0:30:000:30:03

It's The Fall.

0:30:030:30:05

I think Brix's impact on the band was one, sartorial - you can see they suddenly smartened up

0:30:150:30:21

and they look like a proposition that could get in the charts.

0:30:210:30:24

# There's a new fiend on the loose On the back of the exhaust clip... #

0:30:240:30:31

Secondly, I think she brought a more overt American rock'n'roll sensibility to it,

0:30:310:30:38

which softened up a lot of the rough edges of the sound.

0:30:380:30:43

# There's a party on down around here Cruiser's Creek yeah

0:30:490:30:54

# See the people walking down the street

0:30:540:30:58

# Sidewalk running... #

0:30:580:31:01

That was great, that whole thing, when they were suddenly on TV

0:31:010:31:05

and they would have champagne in the dressing room.

0:31:050:31:09

It was great! And Mark would wear those cool suits.

0:31:090:31:12

The best thing was meeting Bo Diddley.

0:31:150:31:20

He was on this all rock'n'roll tour, and he said it was the biggest load of crap he'd ever experienced,

0:31:220:31:28

and he said, "But I did see you on that Tube show.

0:31:280:31:32

"I was watching that in the hotel...

0:31:320:31:37

"I saw Elton John and Paula Yates. What the hell's going on there?

0:31:370:31:43

"There was only one good rock'n'roll group and it was you!"

0:31:430:31:46

He goes, "And it was you!"

0:31:460:31:48

I'm like, "It's Bo Diddley!" cos I love Bo Diddley.

0:31:480:31:53

# Cruiser's Creek, yeah Cruiser's Creek. #

0:31:530:31:59

Just for a little bit of time, they were like Mr and Mrs Rock'n'Roll.

0:31:590:32:03

Or Mr and Mrs Strange-Deranged- Rock'n'Roll. It was great!

0:32:030:32:08

-How long can you carry on, though, because...?

-What do you mean? Would you like us to break up now?

0:32:080:32:13

-Yes, Muriel.

-If you're in a business mode, it's all in pursuit of novelty and that's fair enough, that's cool.

0:32:130:32:21

But, we're not, you know?

0:32:210:32:23

He doesn't want to be in a rock band and I don't think he sees The Fall as a rock band in any sense.

0:32:230:32:28

So, I suppose, he's always been wanting to take it into other artistic dimensions.

0:32:280:32:33

When I was working in Edinburgh during the summer,

0:32:330:32:36

lots of arts lovers were dribbling the claret down their cravats

0:32:360:32:39

and getting very excited over a young dancer, Michael Clark.

0:32:390:32:42

When it comes to dancing, I'm a bit of a philistine.

0:32:420:32:45

Although I did have to sit up and take notice

0:32:450:32:47

when I heard this lad was dancing to music by The Fall.

0:32:470:32:50

He has a genuine desire for an artistic expression.

0:32:550:32:57

That's not false.

0:32:570:32:59

It may be naive or primitive, in the sense of the artists which he likes, who are primitive artists,

0:32:590:33:07

but it's a genuine desire.

0:33:070:33:09

# Kerb-crawlers of the worst order. #

0:33:090:33:14

All the group stayed up to watch The Old Grey Whistle Test, not that I would, personally.

0:33:180:33:24

But you couldn't see the group. That was the funniest bit.

0:33:250:33:28

They stayed up to watch it with all their parents!

0:33:330:33:38

HE LAUGHS

0:33:380:33:42

And all you can see was like, Michael Clark baring his arse on the fucking screen, y'know?

0:33:420:33:49

Fucking great! It was dead funny!

0:33:490:33:52

When a group keeps going as long as The Fall have done,

0:34:020:34:06

and they have a sound that, fundamentally, is actually a commercial sound...

0:34:060:34:10

At it's most fluent, for all its experimental and avant-garde edges,

0:34:100:34:15

it's a commercial sound, because it's about the attack of pop and the attack of rock,

0:34:150:34:20

and the way that a good lyric has a catchy chorus.

0:34:200:34:24

# Hit them all 95 per cent. #

0:34:240:34:28

Mark E Smith has never really, even at his most peculiar, obstinate and strange veered away from that notion

0:34:300:34:36

that he wants to reach the masses, and I think that they kept going for so long, that...

0:34:360:34:42

Fashion does weird dips, and definitely at the end of the 80s, it hit that time. People noticed them.

0:34:420:34:48

# It was bad Called obscene

0:34:480:34:51

# And the rich Were so mean. #

0:34:510:34:53

They'd become fashionable and they started to have bigger audiences.

0:34:530:34:57

He'd never been fashionable. He'd been anti-fashion.

0:34:570:35:00

For a short period, he was fashionable.

0:35:000:35:02

# ..was my queen Victoria! Victoria! #

0:35:020:35:08

I was so glad when we got very popular.

0:35:080:35:10

I remember the time that my mother told me

0:35:120:35:15

that Elton John was on The Tube and said he liked The Fall,

0:35:150:35:19

because it was rock'n'roll.

0:35:190:35:21

# Victoria! #

0:35:210:35:26

I thought we were doing something wrong, actually.

0:35:270:35:30

# Victoria! Victoria! Victoria! #

0:35:300:35:35

An email from Sean Cordell, "My youth can be tracked through the development of The Fall."

0:35:370:35:42

A good way to have spent your life, I think, Sean.

0:35:420:35:45

-# Wrong place... #

-Sorry.

0:35:540:35:57

Because you have to walk through the vegetarian, organic shop in Maida Vale.

0:35:570:36:03

Ha! One. One.

0:36:030:36:07

-There's the first take.

-C'mon. The first take, you can that?

0:36:070:36:10

One, two, three, four.

0:36:100:36:12

# Wrong place, right time

0:36:120:36:16

# I used to think I could do what I wanted to

0:36:160:36:19

# Right time for me alone

0:36:190:36:22

# I walk the streets of complete full homes

0:36:220:36:26

# I can't dance I can't sing #

0:36:260:36:29

WORDS DROWNED OUT

0:36:290:36:33

# Mike Clark Said I'm a bastard

0:36:330:36:39

# He is deranged I am William of Orange

0:36:390:36:43

# Go insane in Holland

0:36:430:36:46

# I can't wait to taste anthrax turf again. #

0:36:460:36:50

Well, nobody could believe it with Curious Orange that we would dare to put it on in Edinburgh.

0:36:500:36:57

What was interesting about the idea of being associated with a ballet

0:36:590:37:03

was that it seemed one of the few moments of utter logic in the history of The Fall, in a way.

0:37:030:37:09

A series of clashing illogicalities, constantly, here was something that was quite logical,

0:37:090:37:16

as if there was a narrative development of The Fall.

0:37:160:37:19

This is the moment where they're deemed to be quite artistic, really.

0:37:190:37:23

# From a can a Shepherd's Bush man

0:37:230:37:26

# You're cabbing it uptown, uptown. #

0:37:260:37:28

I remember going up and just overseeing

0:37:290:37:32

the recording of it in Edinburgh,

0:37:320:37:35

and seeing the play and it was great. It was really good!

0:37:350:37:38

Mad! Brix on the hamburger! And it just was... She smiled all the way through it.

0:37:380:37:44

You have The Fall fans at the back in the cheap seats

0:37:470:37:49

and the ballet fans at the front with their fingers in their ears.

0:37:490:37:53

# I drink the long draught band Drink the long, drink the long... #

0:37:530:37:57

I thought it was hysterical. It was wild. It was free.

0:37:570:38:01

The group played really well.

0:38:010:38:03

Some of the dancing was fantastic.

0:38:030:38:06

Michael runs a mean troupe...

0:38:060:38:09

in a similar way to Mark running a mean band.

0:38:090:38:13

It was good doing ballet...

0:38:130:38:15

..because there's a discipline there, y'know?

0:38:170:38:20

You know, you have to be there at 7pm for half an hour,

0:38:220:38:27

then you've gotta get on stage at 9 o'clock

0:38:270:38:31

and you've gotta get fucking off at 10.30, and that's fucking it.

0:38:310:38:35

And if you don't get it right, you're fucked. It's different.

0:38:350:38:38

# They were curious, orange... #

0:38:400:38:43

It took Mark to a new level of audience. It made him a favourite.

0:38:430:38:47

He suddenly became of interest to the chattering classes -

0:38:470:38:51

the very middle class and bourgeois crowd

0:38:510:38:53

that he doesn't like, if the truth be told.

0:38:530:38:56

Just as it was going really well, I think Mark just said, "Y'know, I'm not really what you're saying I am.

0:38:560:39:03

"I am not this thing. I'm Mark E Smith. I am not your pet."

0:39:030:39:07

And just veered off in another direction.

0:39:070:39:09

It was a difficult time for Mark.

0:39:140:39:15

# Goodbye, my dear! #

0:39:150:39:19

I think she was looking for fame and Mark, I'm sure he doesn't mind fame,

0:39:190:39:24

but he's not looking for it in the same way.

0:39:240:39:27

He doesn't value fame and he doesn't really value the opinion

0:39:270:39:30

of a load of famous people, who don't particularly care for him.

0:39:300:39:34

Mark's personal life was always entangled with The Fall.

0:39:380:39:42

# Last week, after Dynasty

0:39:420:39:48

# I had crow's feet under my eyes

0:39:480:39:55

# Paid two days for getting high. #

0:39:550:40:00

People felt dead sorry for me, y'know, blokes on the dole in the pub going, "There's a pint, Mark."

0:40:000:40:06

"It happens to us all, lad", and all that. "It's all right!"

0:40:060:40:12

# These are the finest times of my life

0:40:150:40:20

# This is the greatest time of my life. #

0:40:200:40:26

Mark just seemed to keep working through things,

0:40:260:40:29

whenever things happened like that in his life,

0:40:290:40:32

he just seemed to keep working through it, you know?

0:40:320:40:35

There was never like, "I'm gonna take a break for six months" or anything like that.

0:40:350:40:40

This is Craig's tribute to Frank Zappa.

0:40:400:40:42

Now, we can all laugh about this, but this is his tribute to Frank,

0:40:420:40:47

and so it's called I'm Frank.

0:40:470:40:50

Just about to do our first album for Phonogram and Brix left,

0:40:500:40:55

and Martin Bramah came back for Extricate.

0:40:550:40:59

I mean, we all liked Martin anyway, cos he was the original guitarist.

0:40:590:41:03

We were quite chuffed to have him back in the band, I think.

0:41:030:41:07

# Gimme gimme gimme it slowly baby. #

0:41:070:41:11

Even with Mark, the strangest things you take for granted.

0:41:110:41:14

You'd just think, he needed some kind of replacement for Brix.

0:41:140:41:17

Maybe best to go back to the very beginning.

0:41:170:41:20

Maybe some strange notion that he could get a bit of a formula back.

0:41:200:41:23

# How dare you assume I want to parlez-vous with you?

0:41:230:41:28

# Sorry to be so short with you... #

0:41:280:41:31

It didn't really work out, him rejoining, I don't think.

0:41:310:41:35

Cos when they formed, it was probably equal, you know?

0:41:350:41:39

It was probably as much his band as Mark's,

0:41:390:41:42

but when he rejoined he had to take a back seat.

0:41:420:41:46

# I hear you telephone thing... #

0:41:460:41:48

.the 24th session for the programme as far as we know.

0:41:480:41:50

The band have recorded sessions, pretty much every year,

0:41:500:41:53

the exceptions being '82, '89, '97 - not sure how that happened,

0:41:530:41:57

and then for some reason, there were no more sessions after '98 until 2003.

0:41:570:42:01

"John, can you tell us why this was?" it says here.

0:42:010:42:04

Breakdown in communications - the best reason I can give you.

0:42:040:42:07

I wrote this script, which... You're like I come in and start shouting at you cos you haven't done the tracks.

0:42:070:42:13

So why have you done the fucking tracks, then?

0:42:130:42:16

Well, we just thought, because you'd gone to the pub, we'd better...

0:42:160:42:20

Don't say that to me!

0:42:200:42:21

Don't you say that to me!

0:42:210:42:24

He's been working hard.

0:42:240:42:25

-Yeah.

-Sorry, boss.

0:42:250:42:27

"Sorry, boss." What kind of word's that?

0:42:270:42:29

You are only a drummer. I am Mark Smith - big shot.

0:42:290:42:33

When we think of The Fall as a group, this is one of his more brilliant illusions.

0:42:330:42:37

He's kept that idea that The Fall has been going for 25, 30 years,

0:42:370:42:42

but in a funny sort of way, there's been about 30 or 40 groups that Mark E Smith has had.

0:42:420:42:47

There've been so many of them, I mean... Go out and do a straw poll.

0:42:470:42:51

You could go outside now and probably bump into someone who's been in The Fall.

0:42:510:42:56

# Don't call me darling. #

0:42:560:42:58

I've got this thing, a reputation as like a sack master,

0:42:580:43:02

keep firing people and all that. It's like common knowledge, now.

0:43:020:43:07

Anywhere I go now, people on the street go, "You're the one, who's had all them group members."

0:43:070:43:13

I don't see what the problem is.

0:43:130:43:15

Obviously, it's become almost a kind of joke, except for the people concerned.

0:43:150:43:19

You know, the passage through The Fall, and then, by and large,

0:43:190:43:23

people then disappear without a trace after they've gone,

0:43:230:43:26

which seems... I don't know whether he's killing them.

0:43:260:43:29

You have to be a fairly strong person, I think.

0:43:290:43:32

There was quite a few musicians and people around the band who didn't last very long.

0:43:320:43:37

It's not like an ordinary group.

0:43:370:43:41

People do it cos they love it.

0:43:410:43:44

They do it for nothing, or they do it for money,

0:43:440:43:47

but they will fucking do it, y'know?

0:43:470:43:49

I noticed in the '90s what was happening with Mark E Smith was

0:43:540:43:57

what had once been sympathetically registered in a certain area as the old curmudgeon or whatever,

0:43:570:44:03

or the old fart, but you know, what a genius...

0:44:030:44:06

He suddenly became...a fucking asshole, I guess, is the phrase.

0:44:060:44:10

He's suddenly become... You realised there were large parts of Mark E Smith that were not very nice.

0:44:100:44:15

I don't think he's made his behaviour any better by his use...

0:44:150:44:19

tremendous use of drugs and speedy drugs,

0:44:190:44:23

speed and various things that would make his nerves worse,

0:44:230:44:26

but he's a tough, tough character.

0:44:260:44:28

It shows on his face, that he's a hard-line drinker.

0:44:280:44:33

It shows on his face that he's a tough guy.

0:44:330:44:35

There came a moment when it turned,

0:44:350:44:37

and that abuse that we'd put down to him just living on the edge,

0:44:370:44:41

and the speed and the booze, it started to be something

0:44:410:44:46

that was clearly affecting him as an individual.

0:44:460:44:50

That was the moment, when you kind of thought, "Oh, my God!",

0:44:500:44:54

"What if he wasn't a genius, he was just an old drunken tramp that when he got really drunk,

0:44:540:44:59

"spouted phrases that made a kind of sense and we read too much into it?"

0:44:590:45:03

Just a little bit of that started to come into it, you know?

0:45:030:45:06

# Feeling numb, now

0:45:060:45:08

# The grist that curtails will make us strong

0:45:080:45:11

# And you'll be dead before I'm born. Pah! #

0:45:110:45:16

I don't think an award like Godlike Genius or Lifetime Service Award is relevant to them,

0:45:160:45:21

cos it suggests that it's stopped and it doesn't look like it ever is gonna stop.

0:45:210:45:25

The point where everybody thought it would end was the mid '90s,

0:45:250:45:29

when he didn't seem to be able to hold a line-up together,

0:45:290:45:32

he looked terribly ill and you really felt you were living in the last days.

0:45:320:45:36

He was turning into a bit of a shambles by this time, I think everybody would admit that.

0:45:390:45:44

There was a lot of financial trouble the band were in, which was affecting everything.

0:45:440:45:49

Gigs got cancelled. We'd row in the sound check

0:45:490:45:52

and we wouldn't get to the gig.

0:45:520:45:53

The writing was on the wall, really, by then.

0:45:530:45:58

But I don't know why we went to America. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

0:45:580:46:03

My last gig was at Brownies, which is pretty well known as a disaster.

0:46:090:46:13

A lot of aggression on stage, and I think the odd microphone being thrown about and kicked over.

0:46:160:46:21

Well, they started on me, and I started on them. Fair, isn't it?

0:46:230:46:29

By this time, I'd had enough, I think, you know,

0:46:290:46:33

and I maybe should have got out of it a couple of years before.

0:46:330:46:36

That band had just run out of steam, and yet because it was Steve,

0:46:360:46:42

because it was Karl, I think he had a loyalty to those people.

0:46:420:46:48

All the equipment was pushed over and Mark was fighting with Karl and trashed the drum kit.

0:46:480:46:54

So he attacked me as well.

0:46:580:47:01

I ended up in jail, but at the end of the day, I think it was probably the best thing that ever happened,

0:47:010:47:08

that scrap on the...stage.

0:47:080:47:12

I felt like I was carrying these old fellers around all the time.

0:47:140:47:19

They're all about my age and they're shit.

0:47:230:47:26

There's no two ways about it, y'know. They're crap.

0:47:260:47:30

..a fucking animal on drugs - a fucking idiot!

0:47:300:47:34

WHISTLING No fucking singer, man!

0:47:340:47:37

Where's the fucking singer? You cock.

0:47:370:47:40

-I've been assaulted in public...

-Yeah, right(!)

-..by two people.

0:47:400:47:45

Or three people. You've been witness to this. Bear witness, laddies.

0:47:450:47:50

He'd let it go too far. He'd fallen out with his group.

0:47:500:47:53

He was drinking too much and he was gradually losing contact.

0:47:530:47:57

They had no management and no friends were working with them.

0:47:570:48:01

I couldn't get any work. I couldn't get any jobs in Europe...

0:48:010:48:05

Or America or anything. Zip! Britain even.

0:48:080:48:13

The point about him is you've gotta play the game a little bit and he knows that.

0:48:130:48:17

You can't completely ditch everything and expect your fame to carry you through.

0:48:170:48:21

# You dissolute singer. # RADIO: At Brownie's tonight...

0:48:210:48:27

I think it was after that low point, he realised that you have to have a band, that he was known.

0:48:270:48:33

He went back to the basics of his success.

0:48:330:48:35

When you think, "He's too drunk, he hasn't got a band, he's forgotten his lyrics, who the hell is he?"

0:48:350:48:42

He'll end up putting together a set that's mesmerising and you realise what a great artist he is.

0:48:420:48:47

What he produced was rather good. He came up with one or two incarnations of The Fall that were very talented.

0:48:510:48:58

There were so many people that would love to be in that band, great musicians that could join it.

0:48:580:49:04

And often you think, "Just get someone in, and sort it out!"

0:49:040:49:07

People would contribute to this that are brilliant. But that'd be the wrong thing to do.

0:49:070:49:11

Don't want Fall fans, y'know? Cos you get...I've had fill-ins, blokes who like The Fall,

0:49:110:49:19

filled in on bass or guitar and they play like they think The Fall is and it's rubbish.

0:49:190:49:27

First time I met Mark I was about 15 years old.

0:49:270:49:30

Cos he came drinking in the same building that used to be my youth club.

0:49:300:49:34

And I kinda saw him on and off for about four years,

0:49:340:49:40

and then I got a phone call from a friend of Mark's,

0:49:400:49:42

asking if I wanted to do a day's work for The Fall in Manchester.

0:49:420:49:46

We went down, recorded some tunes off The Unutterable album.

0:49:490:49:52

And I think on the strength of that performance I did on that day, he kind of offered me the job.

0:49:520:49:59

Everybody who works for The Fall is um... They're very regular people,

0:49:590:50:06

and I wouldn't pick 'em otherwise.

0:50:060:50:08

He's got Elena now in the band and that has really focused down.

0:50:100:50:14

Another very strong woman, knows exactly what she wants to do.

0:50:140:50:18

# Pumpkin soup and mashed potatoes. #

0:50:180:50:21

I didn't want to join for obvious reasons, being the wife and so.

0:50:210:50:26

But I found it quite easy to play with them.

0:50:260:50:30

And, you know, I just stuck with it.

0:50:300:50:33

I treat Elena completely different, when she's in the group. It's not like...

0:50:330:50:39

I treat her like everybody else. A bit hard sometimes, y'know.

0:50:390:50:42

I don't think it's important to Mark.

0:50:430:50:46

He doesn't differentiate between women and men - as humans, as people

0:50:460:50:50

and certainly not as musicians, so it makes no difference.

0:50:500:50:54

No, women are a lot better actually, at a lot of things.

0:50:540:50:57

Musically, they just take it up. You can just give them an idea...

0:50:570:51:03

A lot of fellers want to know the mechanics of it all the time, which I can't explain to them,

0:51:030:51:09

because, believe it or not, I still don't know a D from an E or an F from an A.

0:51:090:51:13

I know an A and an E, sort of.

0:51:130:51:15

And this email says, "Play a Fall track for Mike in Frome and Ben in London, arsehole saddos,

0:51:170:51:24

and to all the young Fall fans - big up and Spencer is a top Fall drummer.

0:51:240:51:28

GUITAR AND DRUMS

0:51:280:51:33

-See what I mean?

-He's playing! Shut it!

0:51:370:51:40

All I'm saying is, we could improve on that. It could be a lot tighter.

0:51:400:51:44

We don't have to do Wrong Place again?

0:51:440:51:46

Creatively, it's the best band to be in, it really is, cos the songs are written that...

0:51:460:51:52

Some are written by individuals and some are written by the entire band.

0:51:520:51:57

He gives you a lot of leeway.

0:51:570:51:59

Can you pick my guitar up for me?

0:51:590:52:01

I just give them the freedom, which they don't get in...

0:52:010:52:08

Y'know, like rock bands and all that.

0:52:080:52:12

At the end of the day, you know, once you hand that song over and he's sung over it, it's his song.

0:52:130:52:17

It's his tune, you know. And he'll put his nice little...

0:52:170:52:22

He'll do his thing to it, that makes it that little bit special.

0:52:220:52:27

I love the way he reduces the basic idea of The Fall to being raw sound with weird singing over the top.

0:52:270:52:32

He's not a singer, but he's one of the greatest rock singer's there's ever been

0:52:320:52:36

and his whole way of turning the drunken karaoke singing,

0:52:360:52:40

with 'uh' at the end of everything has become unbelievably powerful.

0:52:400:52:44

My singing's getting very good, actually. It's all about...

0:52:440:52:47

HE MOUTHS

0:52:470:52:50

I'm getting really good at singing, after twenty-fucking-five years.

0:52:500:52:55

No, I really am.

0:52:560:52:59

# See the people all in line What's making them look at me?

0:53:010:53:08

# Can't imagine that their minds Thinking the same as me

0:53:080:53:14

# Cos I can hear the grass grow I can hear the grass cry

0:53:140:53:22

# I see rainbows in the evening

0:53:220:53:26

# And I can hear the grass grow I can hear the grass grow

0:53:260:53:34

# I see rainbows in the evening. #

0:53:340:53:38

This has been just magnificent, I think and thanks Mark and the others for making an old man very happy.

0:53:430:53:48

Two tunes from The Fall -

0:53:480:53:50

Wrong Place and The Move's I Can Hear The Grass Grow.

0:53:500:53:53

C'mon, one two two.

0:53:530:53:56

The latest band now is just fantastic.

0:53:560:53:59

Ra, ra, ra, ra!

0:53:590:54:01

Who can say that - 27 years and he's got a stunning band.

0:54:020:54:07

I saw them a week ago and there were like five new songs in the set

0:54:070:54:10

and they were the best five songs.

0:54:100:54:12

# We live on blood... #

0:54:160:54:18

One of the classic moves in the last five years on stage has been in turning up people's amps,

0:54:200:54:26

switching bits of kit off.

0:54:260:54:29

Mark does a lot of live mixing on stage, like he moves microphones, puts it in the bass drum or so,

0:54:290:54:35

and I think there's no other band that does this, like a live mix by the singer.

0:54:350:54:41

"What's he doing now?" He's messing with your amp - "I don't know what he's doing",

0:54:410:54:45

but in his head, he's "Right, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do this."

0:54:450:54:50

It's to wake 'em up a bit, y'know, the group - not the crowd.

0:54:540:54:58

I'm not bothered about the crowd. I never have been, y'know?

0:55:000:55:03

They don't interest me.

0:55:030:55:05

# ..Cheap English man In the paper shop

0:55:050:55:10

# You mug old women... #

0:55:100:55:13

The experience of being in The Fall will give you the most fantastic time of your life,

0:55:130:55:20

that you would never have had in any other band,

0:55:200:55:23

but at the same time, you also get some of the most frightening experiences.

0:55:230:55:27

I mean, it's kinda like that. It's kinda like that.

0:55:270:55:31

# ..We have to pay for everything But some things are for free... #

0:55:310:55:34

It's easy to assume when you go to a gig and all these people have turned up,

0:55:340:55:37

that you're partly responsible for this.

0:55:370:55:40

That's when you start your slippery slope downhill, because once you start thinking that...

0:55:400:55:46

You've gotta come into this band and you've gotta know your role.

0:55:460:55:49

# ..English Chelsea fan This is your last game

0:55:490:55:52

# We're not Galatasaray We're Sparta FC

0:55:520:55:55

# I will tell you how it will change. #

0:55:550:56:00

AUDIENCE CHEER

0:56:000:56:02

There was a song on Hex Enduction Hour, Hip Priest, that they re-did on A Kurious Oranj soundtrack,

0:56:020:56:07

which has got this line, "He is not appreciated" and every encore for time immemorial now,

0:56:070:56:13

has involved him handing the mike out to a member of the audience,

0:56:130:56:17

who can then shout "He is not appreciated."

0:56:170:56:20

And I think that there's a kind of feedback loop, there,

0:56:200:56:23

of the audience flattering Mark E Smith, saying, "We know how good you are,

0:56:230:56:27

"but you're playing to these crowds at this level."

0:56:270:56:30

But there's also a bit of flattery, going the other way

0:56:300:56:34

It's one of those rare moments, where he is approving of the audience,

0:56:340:56:38

saying, "But you know. You know I'm really good."

0:56:380:56:42

# Because he's, he's fucking not... #

0:56:420:56:47

There's part of him that is so fucking furious with his obscurity and his poverty,

0:56:470:56:53

considering how brilliant he is and part of him that really, really wouldn't want it any other way.

0:56:530:56:59

I think there's a lot of deception going on, sometimes, with Mark.

0:56:590:57:06

He wants an audience... he wants to be appreciated.

0:57:060:57:10

He deserves to be appreciated, or feels he does... and some of it's just showbiz.

0:57:100:57:16

"I'm an anti-star, but I shine brightly."

0:57:160:57:20

He lives in his own weird little world and it's not a world I particularly want to be part of,

0:57:260:57:31

but it's Mark Smith - what he does is brilliant and you can never write him off.

0:57:310:57:36

# Check the record Check the record

0:57:360:57:38

# Check the guy's track record

0:57:380:57:40

# Check the record Check the guy's track record... #

0:57:400:57:44

It is to Manchester's glory, that, yes, we have Ian Curtis and Shaun Ryder and Ian Brown and...

0:57:440:57:51

Let's forget the Gallagher brothers, but without Mark E, that heritage would be a much, much poorer place.

0:57:510:57:59

And the fact that I'm calling him heritage he'll fucking hate, so I'm glad I said it.

0:57:590:58:04

# He is not... #

0:58:040:58:08

I respect Mark for continuing to beat his own path through the jungle that is life.

0:58:080:58:16

Even if there's a well-worn path, three or four feet to the left or right of him,

0:58:160:58:21

he's still gonna go down the middle and that's got to be good.

0:58:210:58:24

# ..He is fucking not Drink a long, drink a long draught

0:58:240:58:33

# Drink a long draught... #

0:58:330:58:34

I've got plenty to say, you know? I'm gonna carry on saying it.

0:58:340:58:39

Okey doke?

0:58:420:58:44

# Check the record Check the record

0:58:440:58:46

# Check the guy's track record.

0:58:460:58:48

# Check the record Check the guy's track record. #

0:58:480:58:51

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