Beyond the Abyss Our World

top of the hour. Now it is time for the week's events at the Leveson

inquiry. A small number who either got it or leaked stories... That

relationship with the media is the single thing that is dominating my

life. I found it surprising there was this level of social engagement

in wine bars. It can be tough at the top of the

Metropolitan Police. Over 50,000 staff protecting over 7 million

citizens, always knowing that if things go wrong it can end like

this. I have this afternoon informed the Palace, Home Secretary

and the Mayor of my intention to resign as commissioner. This week,

four former commissioners of the Metropolitan Police told Lord

Justice Leveson how they dealt with the scrutiny from a press just

waiting for them to slip up. That was what happened to Sir Paul

Stephenson, brought down amid the phone hacking scandal. At the

centre of his troubles, former News of the World deputy editor Neil

Wallis, arrested and bailed over phone hacking last year, previously

hired by the Net itself to advise them and public relations. On day

45, the now former policeman arrived in a suit and tie to tell

the Inquiry how some in his top team did damage by talking to the

papers. I am referring well to what I consider a very small number of

the management board. I have just gone through what they consisted of.

A very small number, who on occasions either have got what leak

about stories from within the Met that was deeply unhelpful and added

to a continuing dialogue of disharmony and almost disfunction

Allodi. The Inquiry heard how the most senior officer in the Met them

at -- developed his acquaintance with Neil Wallis over drinks and

dinners. Another dinner with Neil Wallis. Presumably a similar

purpose as the dinner the previous year. Is that right? Yes. This

access was not unique. Sir Paul Stephenson net are that editors as

well. A I find it difficult to see how the commissioner could do his

or her job properly without engaging pretty heavily with the

media at the right level, because if the reportage of the story of

the Met continues to be unbalanced, with very often it is, then I have

a duty on the 58 -- duty to the people I lead and to try to

continue to affect that balance to be more accurate. Recovering after

hospital trick there, he accepted a free stay at a health spa offered

by a friend of his family. Only later did he learn that Neil Wallis

did work for them. I was on significant medication. This

possibly represented my best chance of getting back to work as early as

possible. That is the reason I did it. Looking back at how the matter

dealt with phone hacking, he suggested it was the service's

attitude as much as it actions that were to account for its failure to

rethink the conclusions of the original phone hacking inquiry.

What we did not do is go back and actually challenged the reasons for

those decisions in 2006. I don't want to make life difficult for

John Yates. I think he acted in good faith. I am convinced about

that. We did not challenge the reasons why it was limited because

we did not know it was limited. I also think that insomuch that it

felt like an investigation, the leader of that original

investigation did not do anything improper. The fact that this did

not feel like a priority was a relevant factor. I then go on to

think that we got ourselves almost hawked on a strategy, and defensive

strategy that we would not expend significant resources without new

evidence. Three in the wake of the phone hacking traumas that followed

that defensive strategy, the Met commissioned a report on its

relations with the press from a former parliamentary standards

watchdog. He said there were doubts even in the police service itself

about the perks available to those at the top. Many of the police

officers and staff that I interviewed were obviously highly

shocked by the amount of hospitality that the senior people

appeared to be receiving. But many, many of the lower ranked people, as

one of the senior people quoted said, that people were filling

their boots. That was a very general view. She had even heard

allegations that reputations of some of those senior officers were

being protected in return for favours to reporters. People told

me of a variety of occasions in which information for example about

senior officers' private lives was kept out, so they claim, by the

media, by the person in the media who had that information, getting

an exclusive story. It was a trade. Sometimes she had heard the trade

was even more straightforward. of it was about people allegedly

ringing up in excitement to the newspaper to say that a certain

celebrity has just come into my police station. When that poor

celebrity got outside there were lots of cameras there because the

media had delivered the cameras. People also said to me that they

thought in some instances people were paid for information about the

celebrities. This former Chief Constable and author of an

inspector's report talk, he admitted, are rather more austere

view then some. You say that you do not accept, or didn't accept,

hospitality from the media. No meals, no alcohol. This is it.

makes me sound extremely boring, but that was the case in my time as

chief constable. In the trees, there was never an occasion to do

that. We were polite and courteous. I had tea, coffee or water. I am

not sure how the Inquiry would go if there was a bottle of fine

champagne. It might go more quickly. That was about as much levity as

Lord Justice Leveson allowed here, although the Inquiry heard that

some police staff were rather less scrupulous about what they put in

the public domain. There has clearly been a communications

revolution around how but only the media but the public communicate

with each other, and not unlike other organisations the police have

been struggling to keep in front of that, or at pace with it. Could you

give me an example? In extreme is somebody who had identified

themselves as working for a police force, exposing themselves, taking

photographs of themselves, minus appropriate clothing. They had

appeared on Facebook. On the day 46 a commissioner who spent seven

years on the job and in an age before social media, found the

papers were vital. Everyone working minutes, I was on duty. -- every

waking minute. That relationship with the media was the single thing

that was dominating my life. Major terrorism event in London, and I

had them during my time, both Middle Eastern and Irish terrorism,

there would be an insatiable demand for the Commissioner of the day to

be saying things about it, to be reassuring the public, to be giving

information. For all that, he preferred to brief the press on

police premises. As editor of the Telegraph, I was the editor of the

standard. Always moaned about the food and drink at Scotland Yard. I

think I was weak on a couple of occasions. I had one lunch with Max.

Probably at one of his clubs. fought shy of criticising his

successors whose appeared to have spent more time in -- more time

with journalists in restaurants. But he issued his warning. You say,

in my view, hospitality can be the start of a grinning process which

leads to inappropriate and unethical behaviour. -- grooming

process. How did you come to the view? That is with the benefit of

hindsight, because since leaving the service I have gone on to work

with the integrity of in that -- in - -- international sport and the

business community. It is just common sense that in any walk of

life, hospitality can be appropriate, sensible, necessary,

ethical, but the other side of that is that it can lead to

inappropriate closeness and in some cases that can lead to criminal

behaviour. By the time John Stevens took over as commissioner in 2000

the Met was, he said, in severe crisis. It was interesting going to

various places that nobody wanted to join the Metropolitan Police

because they did not think it was worth joining. Dealing with the

media was part of his strategy for putting their reputation to write.

There will always be bad news. It is not a matter of bearing bad news,

it is a matter of admitting to mistakes but at the street and

support staff who do a tremendous amount every day to actually tell

their stories far more in a positive way. It is what the Net

did, or didn't do, that the Guardian's phone hacking

revelations in 2009 that are under attack today. Lord Stevens

suggested he might have handled things different be. I would like

to have thought the issues with the Guardian had the raised, I would

have picked them up as commissioner. If they had been picked up, I would

have been ruthless in pursuing it. He wrote columns for the News of

the World, as much as �7,000 a time. His pieces were edited by the

deputy editor, and a familiar name, Neil Wallis. But after a News of

the World report -- reporter was convicted of phone hacking, he

abandoned his contract. It's I did not complete the contract because

of the convictions that took place. I saw Colin Myler and Neil Wallis.

I told them I did not want to continue. I never gave specific

reasons but then I never saw them Two years later, the police hired

him to get their advice -- to give them advice on public relations.

And what to do about the future? Lord Stevens urged caution. People

were absolutely terrified of picking up the phone and speaks to

the press in any way, shape or form. For some, that relationship is

pretty strained, with the police investigating reporters. It emerged

the attorney-general was looking into evidence given by the officer

in charge of those investigations a prejudiced trial that might follow.

She had alleged there appeared to be a culture at the Sun of illegal

payments to public officials. Brooks' lawyer wrote a newspaper

piece saying there was a spectacular failure. On day 47, the

man who was the Met commissioner when phone hacking was first

investigated. His reputation became under skriet ni. His son, like the

son -- scrutiny. His son, like the son of a previous commissioner, did

work experience at the Sun newspaper. Paul's son had done work

experience at Sun. So I said, "That's the kind of thing that

would excite most 15-year-olds. That's a good idea." That's all I

thought about it. Rebekah Brooks got to... It was recorded by that

head of press. What I understand he would say is that he was telephoned

by Rebekah Brooks asking about this arrangement that she had heard that

this arrangement existed and that then he arranged for her to go down

and see the inspector about horses and have a discussion about it.

This actually happened on the day that I had lunch with her and what

I understand he's going to say is that this was discussed at the

lunch. I have absolutely no recollection of that. The horse

incident wasn't a big deal, he said. The decision not a widen the phone

But did you ask the question, "Oh, hang on, if me ?" That's precisely

what I dnt do. In 2009, it fell top John Yates to consider the question

of, "Who else?" He he -- spent -- he spent six hours on that job.

Could you ask you if you would comment on one further decision,

which puzzles me. Having made the decision and given a press

conference, the following days were then spent gathering documents

which some may say could only have been required to justify the

decisions being made. Because if it was an open review, then why on

earth make the announcement? Do I believe that John Yates took that

decision in order to play kait News International? No, I don't. I don't

believe he did that. But his difficulty, without making it more

difficult for him, is the number of contacts. And that, I think, is a

problem. Bob Quick's time at the Net ended when he accidentally

revealed to the media confidential note bs a police operation. That

brought an end to a long career, one that saw him examining

suspicions that journalists were corrupting police officers 12 years

ago. We believe the journalists who were paying the bribes were not

paying them from their own funds. And the intelligence and evidence

reveals paifplts up to 2,000 pound -- payments up to 2,000 pounds. And

therefore we believe they were claiming that money back from their

employers. Quick wrote a report pushing for more action, but no-one

was done. Years later, the police did investigate whether the police

were going to lend money to the Labour Party, on the understanding.

The prime minister was interviewed. There were no charges after an

investigation, but feelings ran high. The man in charge of the

investigation, John Yates, was suspected of leaking, something

he's denied. Quick found evidence there were no leaks, but this

happened. You asked Mr Yates for his consent that it will be allowed

his private and telephone records be examined. You thought he might

welcome this and then he indicated his refeudal. When you pressed him,

-- refusal. When you pressed him, and then when I questioned him, he

said, "No, Bob, I am very well connected." What did you draw from

that? I didn't place huge significance on it at the time. I

thought it was a bit of theatre. I sensed Yates was clearly sensitive,

as I think I would be, to an intrucive process like that. That

wasn't the last time Bob Quick's inquiries ran into this. This man

was arrested. The allegations were quickly established. The scoping

exercise had revealed that someone working very close to the Home

Secretary in her private office seemed to be accessing letters from

the Secretary of State to the Prime Minister as well as removing

documents from a safe in the private office. And that the CPS,

who had been consulted, advised that these are likely to be

criminal matters. A civil servant, Christopher, was accused of taking

the material and of leaking it to Green, then the opposition's

immigration spokesman. An inquiry heard allegation from the police

interview. He details two meetings with Mr Green, where he handed over

leaked material to Mr Green, including that stolen from the

private house office. One meeting was in a wine bar. That's correct,

sir. The quotation there, in an e- mail? That was in an e-mail from Mr

Green, arranging a meet anywhere we won't see any of your colleagues.

Opposite Victoria Station. arresting an MP and raiding his

Westminster office raised big constitutional issues and attracted

the critical attention of, among others, London's Mayor, Boris

Johnson. I had concerns at some early reports just before the

weekend, I believe, where the Mayor had expressed concerns about the

arrest of Mr Green. And I detect thad that had an impact and I --

that that had an impact and I detected a change on the operations

of one or two colleagues, and real anxiety and fear about what was

going on around them. And that did concern me, yes. A review of the

case decided the arrest of Damien Green was disproportionate. No

charges. It was clear the politician's concerns put the plus

on edge. Very angry. Resignation. You... Indeed. I was surprised and

quite shocked that that remark - because I couldn't see that the

police were doing anything other than their duty to investigate what

were very serious allegations from a government department. That was

later disputed by the Met's lawyers. Quick himself got a bad press and

didn't feel he got the support he was due from his colleagues. Some

senior officers, though, were working on their own media

relations. Do you recall at least on two occasions you were invited

to drinks at a wine bar local to Scotland Yard and you saw Yates,

and people known to be journalists. Mike Sullivan, his son...? This was

early into my time in the mement Police. And I sensed some --

Metropolitan Police. And I sensed some unease about this only because

it crossed my mind that these journalists had homes to go to, and

families, I am sure. I found it surprising that there was this

level of social engage. In local wine bars or pubs. There is now no

shortage of detail about the relationships between those who

were at the top of the Metropolitan Police and those who were at the