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In 1920, the leader of an obscure German political party | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
made what seemed at the time an insignificant decision. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:10 | |
Adolf Hitler adopted a symbol | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
for his National Democratic Socialist Party. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
It was a symbol which, over the next two decades, | 0:00:21 | 0:00:24 | |
would become synonymous with hatred, fear, | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
and a regime that slaughtered millions. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
The swastika. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:33 | |
The swastika means Nazism. It means evil, death and genocide. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:41 | |
In Auschwitz, it was an emblem that I hated | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
and I didn't even want to see it. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
But the swastika has a long and complex history. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
For thousands of years, this has been a religious symbol, | 0:00:55 | 0:01:00 | |
with a sacred past. A sign of benevolence, luck and good fortune. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:05 | |
And for the nearly one billion Hindus around the world today, | 0:01:09 | 0:01:13 | |
it lies at the heart of their religious practices and beliefs. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:18 | |
For me personally, the swastika means hope. It means purity, | 0:01:18 | 0:01:22 | |
it means auspiciousness. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
The swastika will be used by Hindus to evoke a sense of the sacred. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:30 | |
To draw the attention of the divine to human undertakings. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:34 | |
But because of its recent past, in the West, the Hindu swastika | 0:01:39 | 0:01:43 | |
has sometimes provoked hostility. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
I've got a tattoo of a swastika on my lip. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
And when I got it done, the tattoo artist was a little taken aback | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
and he was like, "Ah, Jew killer." And I said, "No." | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
In the week when Hindus across Britain are celebrating | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
the holy festival of Diwali, we tell the story of their sacred symbol. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:07 | |
And we bring together members of the communities | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
for whom it has the most potent meaning, | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
to see if a new experience of the swastika | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
could break down long-held prejudices. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
It's very beautiful. I mean, it's obviously quite different, | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
being in gold compared to red and black. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
Can Hindus restore the reputation of a symbol | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
they believe invokes the blessings of the divine? | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
Sunday morning. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
Chalfont Cricket Club in leafy Buckinghamshire. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
A place associated with English teas | 0:02:50 | 0:02:53 | |
and the gentle competitiveness of the weekend sportsman. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
Certainly not a place you'd expect to see a symbol | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
most commonly associated with the fascist regimes of pre-war Germany. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:06 | |
But today is an exception. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:10 | |
The club is host to a Hindu wedding celebration, | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
in which the swastika plays a vital role. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
As the guests congregate and the happy couple arrive, | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
the Hindu priest has an important task... | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
..Placing a swastika in front of the sacred area | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
where the couple will sit during the ceremony. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
And the meaning of this swastika | 0:03:50 | 0:03:52 | |
is a world away from that of Nazi Germany. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
It's a diagram. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
The moment you look at the diagram, it should invoke the peace | 0:03:58 | 0:04:02 | |
within you. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:03 | |
So it has the swastika. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
"Swasti" means well-being, "swastika" - asking the well-being of the gods. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
A statue of their elephant-headed god, Ganesh, | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
is placed at the centre of the swastika. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
Ganesh is the remover of all obstacles. | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
And as the priest rotates him, | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
it's believed any hindrances to the ceremony are removed. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
For Hindus, the swastika isn't only a sacred power for good, | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
but an essential element of any rite of passage. | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
Ramesh Pattni is the father of the groom. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
The word "swastik" actually comes from the Sanskrit word | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
for a state of auspiciousness. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
Wherever any ceremony is performed - and Hindus have got 16 ceremonies | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
during the lifetime, and each one of them | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
will have one way or the other in which the swastik is represented. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:05 | |
In the wedding, the swastik, it is the most important. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
Because the wedding ceremony marks a transition | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
from one period of life to another. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
HE CHANTS | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
And therefore all the auspiciousness is required. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
Warm the hands and get up! Yes! | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
It's the first exercise as wife and husband! | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
As unlikely as it might seem to those not brought up | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
in the Hindu faith, for the Hindus here today, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
a wedding without a swastika would be unusual. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:38 | |
I now declare you wife and husband. May God bless you. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
You look beautiful. You'll live happily ever after. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
For this young couple, | 0:05:46 | 0:05:47 | |
the swastika ensures their marriage is blessed by the gods. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:51 | |
It's a far cry from its associations in the West. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
Most western people when they see it, | 0:05:58 | 0:06:01 | |
they see a Nazi German symbol. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
Shaunaka Rishi Das has been a Hindu priest for more than 30 years. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:10 | |
It is interesting that Hindus themselves, | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
they're brought up with the swastika, it's perfectly normal for them. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
You see all the children at the wedding, | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
they're just seeing it from birth. Then they go to school | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
and learn that the Nazis used it in this way. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
But you have to understand that here's a tradition that's ancient. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
And the Germans borrow it from a different culture and misuse it | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
over less than two decades, and all of a sudden it develops | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
an internationally bad reputation. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
HE CHANTS | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
Of all the symbols produced by ancient and modern man, | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
this is the most contradictory. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
And its origins are shrouded in mystery. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
Images of the swastika have been found across the world. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:55 | |
And the earliest examples date back thousands of years. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:02 | |
Well, the swastika's one of those strange symbols that you find | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
in lots of different cultures. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:08 | |
You see it in China and Japan, you see it in Mongolia, | 0:07:08 | 0:07:11 | |
you see it in the ancient Mediterranean world, in Greece, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
even over in Native American cultures and in the British Isles as well. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:18 | |
But despite the swastika's prolific-ness, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
its original meaning is an enigma. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:25 | |
Perhaps it's just a simple, elegant geometry. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
Maybe it was a solar symbol. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
It's so universal that we can't really find a first point of use, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
it just has a kind of instinctive appeal across the world. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
Some of the most ancient swastikas were found here, in India. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:52 | |
And over the centuries, it's been adopted across the Subcontinent | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
by many different religions. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:01 | |
Hindus, Buddhists and Jains all see it a holy symbol. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:09 | |
It's displayed just about everywhere, to bring good fortune. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:14 | |
And there's one time of year that it's specially prominent. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
At the Hindu festival of Diwali. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
It's a five day celebration to mark the Hindu New Year. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Also known as the festival of lights, | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
it marks the triumph of good over evil. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
And in India, the streets are a riot of noise and colour. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:58 | |
The festival honours deities such as the goddess of wealth, Lakshmi, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
and so the swastika is painted on the account books | 0:09:06 | 0:09:10 | |
for the new financial year, to ensure prosperity. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
But it's not just in the East that the swastika features | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
in Diwali festivities. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
This is Neasden Temple in North West London. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:31 | |
It's the spiritual home to thousands of Hindus. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:36 | |
And every Diwali, the ladies of the temple | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
spend hours making an incredible display, known as a rangoli, | 0:09:41 | 0:09:47 | |
like this one, in which the swastika plays a central role. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
Rangoli patterns are literal forms of art | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
and they're created by hand, generally by women who use rice | 0:09:56 | 0:10:02 | |
or coloured rice. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:03 | |
Avni Chag has been celebrating Diwali here for most of her life. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:11 | |
Diwali represents the festival of lights. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
If you go back to physics lessons, you'll always be taught | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
how the spectrum of colours originates from white light. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
And I think that's completely honoured within these beautiful | 0:10:22 | 0:10:27 | |
geometric patterns and these beautiful designs that are created | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
during Diwali. And most commonly you will see the Hindu swastika. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:36 | |
And for some it may mean prosperity, for some it may mean good luck. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:41 | |
For me personally, the swastika means hope. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
For Hindus who've grown up with the swastika, | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
finding out that this emblem of light has been used | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
for the darkest of purposes, can be horrifying. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
I was pretty much born with the symbol surrounding me, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
and at special occasions, | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
festivals, this symbol would be prevalent. | 0:11:07 | 0:11:09 | |
And then when I finally started studying about the Second World War | 0:11:09 | 0:11:16 | |
in history lessons at school, I freaked out. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:19 | |
I saw the symbol and I was just completely gobsmacked. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
Seeing it in this textbook associated with the Holocaust, with genocide, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
with racial intolerance, was quite a shock. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:47 | |
And I wondered how it could've been mutated from something so positive | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
to something to so negative. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
So how did this sacred symbol come to symbolise | 0:11:57 | 0:12:00 | |
one of the most evil regimes in history? | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
The swastika's metamorphosis began with an archaeological dig | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
in the 19th century. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:13 | |
In 1874, excavations started at a site believed to be | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
the ancient city of Troy in Turkey. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
They were led by a German businessman | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
named Heinrich Schliemann. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
Schliemann was an adventurer and his real mission | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
was to find the real Troy, the Troy of the Homeric epics. | 0:12:35 | 0:12:39 | |
Now, as he dug, he found spheres. Strange spheres with an equator | 0:12:40 | 0:12:45 | |
round them bearing the image of what we would call the swastika | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
and plenty of fragments of pottery bearing swastikas. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
What Schliemann had uncovered was to have deadly consequences. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:57 | |
His work would inadvertently lay the foundations for a new mythology | 0:12:59 | 0:13:04 | |
of the swastika to be constructed. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
One which would transform it from a sacred symbol of benevolence | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
into the Nazi emblem of the Aryan master race. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Now, Schliemann didn't know what these symbols were. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
But there were scholars who were willing to interpret these objects | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
and these symbols for him. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:24 | |
One of these men was a man called Emile Burnouf. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
Burnouf was a scholar of ancient Indian literature, | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
and it was to a Hindu epic called the Rig Veda | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
that he turned to try and make sense of Schliemann's find. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
In the Rig Vedas, there are a people called the Arias mentioned, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
and in the lexicon of the Rig Vedas, the word "swastika" is mentioned. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:50 | |
And scholars like Burnouf put the swastika together with the Arias, | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
and said, "Ah! This was the ancient symbol of these people, the Arias, | 0:13:54 | 0:14:00 | |
"and these people were invaders, warriors, who came from the North, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
"who displaced the existing people of India. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:08 | |
"And these were the same people who we find represented | 0:14:08 | 0:14:12 | |
"in the pottery fragments of Troy." | 0:14:12 | 0:14:14 | |
Two entirely unconnected mythologies were becoming one. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:21 | |
The people of ancient Troy were being fused with the Aryans | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
of the Hindu Rig Vedas. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
And the swastika was the symbol that Burnouf claimed united them. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
So, really, the swastika fragment became for pseudo-scholars | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
like Burnouf, the perfect excuse to build a new mythology, | 0:14:37 | 0:14:41 | |
and invent a single pan-European colonial warrior race | 0:14:41 | 0:14:48 | |
using the swastika as their emblem. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
For Hitler, a symbol with such a mythology - albeit invented - | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
was the perfect emblem for his ambitions for Germany. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
The Nazis were involved in this huge project of trying to create | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
a new history for themselves. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
They weren't really happy with their association with Christian history | 0:15:06 | 0:15:10 | |
because they saw that as having Hebrew, Jewish roots. | 0:15:10 | 0:15:14 | |
And it was that notion of a history that was being kind of imagined | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
out of these different symbols and sources that Hitler wanted to use | 0:15:18 | 0:15:23 | |
to give the Nazi movement its own foundation. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:28 | |
Within decades, the swastika had been ripped from its ancient religious roots, | 0:15:33 | 0:15:39 | |
and become shorthand for the Nazis and their chilling agenda. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
It was perhaps the most successful example of cultural theft in history. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:50 | |
When you look at the swastika, | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
you don't think this is the symbol of Hinduism. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
No, the swastika means Nazism. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
It means evil, death and genocide. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
With its new connotations across Europe so entrenched, it seems unlikely | 0:16:06 | 0:16:11 | |
that the Hindu symbol can ever rid itself of the shadow of Nazism. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
Especially, when for those who suffered directly in the Holocaust, it unlocks terrifying memories. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:24 | |
I was taken into my first camp at 11 and a half. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:33 | |
It was just a horrendous place. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
Arek Hersh lost 81 members of his family under the Nazis. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
SS men were there... | 0:16:49 | 0:16:50 | |
..and they were beating people, and hanging people and... | 0:16:54 | 0:16:58 | |
..just a few of us survived. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
But you see the swastika everywhere. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
I abhorred it, actually. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
I hated to look at it even... | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
..because I suffered very much under it. | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
And even for young Jews today, it's a symbol they still struggle with. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
I do shudder when I see it. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
It's something that is very infamous in the Jewish community. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:52 | |
And it's something that I think it would be very difficult...to change. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:56 | |
The Nazi theft of the Hindu sacred symbol changed | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
the perception of the swastika in the west, forever. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
And yet at the time in India, | 0:18:11 | 0:18:12 | |
it was something most Hindus were unaware of. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
The vast majority of Hindus especially in rural areas, mostly illiterate, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:23 | |
obviously did not know for a very long time | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
how it had been used by the Nazis. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
But for the educated classes, I think there was a sense of being appalled. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:33 | |
And amongst Hindus today, | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
feelings against the Nazis' theft of the swastika run high. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
Germany thought they can hijack this sacred symbol | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
from the Vedic culture | 0:18:46 | 0:18:47 | |
and use it you know to enforce their white supremacy and all that. | 0:18:47 | 0:18:52 | |
And, people are very angry and upset that a sacred symbol so dear to them | 0:18:52 | 0:18:58 | |
in their religion is hijacked by somebody like this. | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
After the war, the feeling against the swastika was so strong, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
that in Germany and Poland, it was banned. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
And since then it's become shorthand, not for divine blessings, | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
but for race hatred. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
It's a misappropriation that's had a real impact on Hindus today. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
The difficult thing is that the swastika that Hitler uses | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
and the swastika that Indian culture uses, really do look a lot the same. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:37 | |
Often the Indian swastika will have dots between the four arms, | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
but there aren't any definite differences that you can always use to separate them out. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
And that can make it hard for people to distinguish which symbol they're looking at. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:52 | |
And it's this confusion, in a society with little understanding of Hinduism, | 0:19:53 | 0:19:59 | |
that's led to the Hindu symbol inadvertently finding itself under attack. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:03 | |
In 2007 German MEPs proposed a ban of the public use of swastikas | 0:20:07 | 0:20:13 | |
right across the European Union. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
It was a proposition that upset many Hindus. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
The British Hindus woke up to this | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
and they carried out a campaign to bring awareness | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
to the members of the British Parliament... | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
..to make them understand how sacred this swastika is to the Hindu faith. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:39 | |
The British Hindu response was that this was a Eurocentric proposal. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
It wasn't taking into account the bigger picture. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:53 | |
Millions of people use this symbol on a daily basis. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
What had started out as an anxiety about Nazism, | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
had turned into a fight for religious freedom. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
If Europe wants to be seen as a truly liberal society, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
then it has to really be liberal in the bigger picture. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
It has to let go of its history maybe...to look at how this symbol has been used in the world | 0:21:16 | 0:21:22 | |
in such a positive way for thousands of years, compared to the European historical aberration | 0:21:22 | 0:21:29 | |
that needs to be recognised | 0:21:29 | 0:21:30 | |
but also needs to be balanced with the bigger picture. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
The reaction stopped the ban in its tracks... | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
..and British Hindus were free to display their sacred symbol once more. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:46 | |
But even though it's not illegal in Britain to show the swastika, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
Hindus who do display it, sometimes face misunderstandings and even insults. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:56 | |
One of the things about Hindus is we don't always explain | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
ourselves very well and children if they take into school | 0:22:00 | 0:22:06 | |
something which displays the swastika, if their friends | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
and even the teachers don't know the meaning, they sometimes get chastised | 0:22:10 | 0:22:15 | |
or even worse, you know bullied, for being associated with Nazism. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:21 | |
Bharti Taylor spends much of her time teaching children about Hinduism. | 0:22:22 | 0:22:27 | |
It's a holy symbol for us, whether you draw it other way or this way. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
For her, the key to Hindus being able to show the sign without fear, is knowledge. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:36 | |
I think we should have more education so that everybody understands | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
that the symbol is meant to be for the good, not an evil symbol. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:47 | |
But can Western, European perceptions really be changed? | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
Well, where better to start, than with the community for whom | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
the swastika holds the greatest fears...the Jews. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:05 | |
Today, Josh Dubell, a member of a London synagogue, | 0:23:06 | 0:23:10 | |
has been invited to the local Hindu Temple in Neasden. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:13 | |
The Hindus want to show him the beautiful rangoli they've created. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
and to talk to him about their connection with the swastika, | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
in the hope that he might begin to see it in a different light. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
If I saw a swastika on the wall in my local area, | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
I would report it straight away as an anti-semitic attack. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
It's something that is synonymous with erm...with hate crimes. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:44 | |
I can understand that when Josh comes he'll come with some idea of the swastika, | 0:23:48 | 0:23:53 | |
and so it'll be interesting to see how he feels when he does see it, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:57 | |
when it's portrayed within the temple. | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
I don't know that much about it as a Hindu symbol. | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
So I really hope to learn what it means to the Hindu faith. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:12 | |
Avni is going to show him round. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
Hello. Hello. Hi, Josh, nice to meet you. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:31 | |
Nice to meet you too, how are you? I'm good, welcome to Neasden Temple. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
Thank you, very happy to be here. Yeah? | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
And the first swastika Josh encounters appears before he even gets inside. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:42 | |
The main symbol that I'd like to point out to you is on the doors. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
And that's the swastika. Ah, yes. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:52 | |
And I guess what that represents is that it's a sign of welcome, | 0:24:52 | 0:24:56 | |
and it's welcoming and wishing them good luck as they enter the temple to pray. Mmm. | 0:24:56 | 0:25:01 | |
It's really interesting. I mean me and my people seeing that | 0:25:01 | 0:25:05 | |
symbol in the past hasn't really provided me with that luck, but... | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
Especially as defined as you can see it here, yeah. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
How do you feel about it? | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
It's, it's just a little erm... | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
..taken aback a little bit by the erm...seeing it like this. | 0:25:20 | 0:25:24 | |
It's obviously quite different being gold compared to red and black. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
But it's erm...it's really, really beautiful. | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
Shall we go on in? Yeah, sure. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
The swastikas on the doors had a real impact on Josh, and what | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
lies inside is even more striking. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
How do you feel now seeing this? | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
I mean this is more in red now. Oh, right. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
So this is called a rangoli and I guess it's an expression of worship. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
And you'll find it at times of really big religious occasions or ceremonies. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:04 | |
The swastika represents prosperity and good luck and wealth. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:08 | |
How do you feel like in terms of the shape or is it something that's different? | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
Obviously to me, it's the most anti-Jewish symbol that | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
I've ever seen in terms of the death of a lot of people in my religion. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:25 | |
And er...I mean it seems a little bit less harsh. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:29 | |
OK, yeah, because of the curl? Yeah, I think so. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
You see, when I was growing up, | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
I always had this positive view of the swastika, | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
so I never understood how it could mean something, you know, that it may mean to you. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:42 | |
As Josh's visit draws to an end, he's got a lot to think about. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
I was taken aback on the doors but now you talk about it a little bit more, | 0:26:50 | 0:26:55 | |
and that's why I think dialogue is really, really important. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
We talk a lot about what separates us, but hopefully we can | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
use this symbol to come together and talk about the things that we have in common. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
Avni and Josh's experiences of the swastika are worlds apart, | 0:27:08 | 0:27:13 | |
but their meeting has started to break down long-held prejudice. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:17 | |
It's still very, very strange and a little alien to me, | 0:27:18 | 0:27:23 | |
but it's actually changed some of my opinions about the swastika. | 0:27:23 | 0:27:28 | |
Maybe it can be used for good. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:32 | |
I think Josh's visit is like a first step in the Jewish community | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
coming to understand that the swastika means so many different things. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
He understood that it doesn't necessarily have to mean one thing, universally. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:50 | |
It can mean different things for different people. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
I don't know whether the Jewish community will feel the same way as I do, | 0:27:56 | 0:28:02 | |
but you know what, hopefully we can really start to educate ourselves that this symbol | 0:28:02 | 0:28:06 | |
can be used for something positive. | 0:28:06 | 0:28:08 | |
Perhaps this ancient Hindu symbol, which for so long has held such different meanings | 0:28:14 | 0:28:20 | |
for these two religious communities, might actually bring them closer together. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:24 | |
And as Hindus across Britain prepare to celebrate Diwali, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
the festival that marks the banishment of darkness and the coming of light, | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
maybe it's a first step towards the swastika being reclaimed for good. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:41 | |
I think over time the swastika will be redeemed in Europe. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
Just because something in one context looks bad doesn't mean we slam it. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
We have to look at the bigger picture always. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
So the change will come, it'll just take time. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:55 | |
Wouldn't it be nice if one day there are people who saw the swastika being used in public | 0:28:57 | 0:29:02 | |
and said, "oh that's an Indian symbol. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
"Hindus use it to signify auspiciousness and blessing." | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
And when they later come to see the Nazi use of the symbol, | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
they think, "Gosh that's horrific, that's really inappropriate." | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
If we can get to that point then finally Hitler will really have been defeated. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:22 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:29:35 | 0:29:38 |