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This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
York. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
This walled city is home to Roman ruins, | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
an ancient cathedral, | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
and, for this week, these ten Muslims. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:15 | |
A community constantly in the spotlight. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:20 | |
We go to school, we go to university, we work, | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
how else do you want me to integrate? | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
They've come together from across Britain... | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
..to live under one roof. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:31 | |
HE PRAYS | 0:00:31 | 0:00:32 | |
For the last five days they have explored their faith. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:35 | |
I don't pray traditionally like that. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:37 | |
HE PRAYS | 0:00:37 | 0:00:38 | |
I've got my own ways. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:39 | |
-You are harming Islam. -Are you mad? | 0:00:39 | 0:00:41 | |
But they've got very different ideas about what makes a good Muslim. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:46 | |
I'm coming back into my faith because I've realised | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
that being gay and being Muslim are not mutually exclusive things. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
You don't think I'm a good representative of Muslim women? | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
A Muslim woman should cover her hair. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
THEY SING | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
Now they'll shift their focus to identity... | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
I was told that I was a Paki terrorist... | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
that should go back home. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:07 | |
..race... | 0:01:07 | 0:01:08 | |
You, as a white person, don't have the right to tell me... | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
I have nothing about whiteness. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
Listen. Listen... | 0:01:12 | 0:01:13 | |
..and what it means to be a Muslim in the UK. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
I want Britain to become an Islamic state. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
I feel like I need to call the anti-terrorism police. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:22 | |
BACK OFF! BACK OFF! | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
Back off! | 0:01:24 | 0:01:26 | |
Back off! | 0:01:26 | 0:01:27 | |
This is a battle for the soul of Islam. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
If you don't integrate, you're always going to be outsider, | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
and that's not only dangerous | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
but it's stupid. | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
It's going to be a good feeling, bro. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:38 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
It's five days since the group arrived in York | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
and so far they've struggled to define what makes a good Muslim. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:58 | |
# What I got to do to make you happy...? # | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
Fear Allah, as he should be feared. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
I am fearing you at the moment. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
No, don't fear me. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
Only Allah.. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:12 | |
-Give me that kettle... -Only Allah is... | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
Today they will turn their attention to what Britain thinks of them. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:23 | |
They are given the results of a survey exploring public opinion | 0:02:23 | 0:02:27 | |
about the Muslim community. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
OK, guys. A sample of 1,708 members of the British public, | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
who were asked whether they agree or disagree | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
with the following statements. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
"Muslim values are compatible with British values." | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
Agree: 20% | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
Disagree: 44% | 0:02:45 | 0:02:47 | |
Just the idea that people can | 0:02:47 | 0:02:49 | |
separate British values and Muslim values... | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
I've got an idea. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
Why don't we find out what we love about Britain | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
and how our faith helps us to be the best that we can? | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
What does that have to do with values? | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
How about we come from the opposite way, | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
and we define generally what Muslim values are? | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
Which is not to have boyfriend and girlfriend... | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
Oh, it's always the same stuff. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:11 | |
..which is marriage. Muslim values is not to drink alcohol. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:14 | |
-That's your interpretation of it. -Yeah, your interpretation. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:16 | |
God has clearly forbidden alcohol in the Qur'an. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
How many Muslims do you know who don't drink? | 0:03:19 | 0:03:21 | |
How many Muslims do you know who smoke ganja? | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
But it's not Islam, is it? | 0:03:23 | 0:03:24 | |
From the get-go, the values of a Muslim are not compatible with British values. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:28 | |
Next point, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
"I would feel comfortable if a Muslim moved in next door to my home." | 0:03:30 | 0:03:34 | |
Agree: 38% | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
Disagree: 25% | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
I've made so many new non-Muslim friends | 0:03:39 | 0:03:43 | |
by just feeding them. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
Why their hell should I bring you curry | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
or bring you anything, for you to think it's OK | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
for me to live next door. That makes no sense. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
What are we going to do? Bomb up the house next door? | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
Stupid! | 0:03:53 | 0:03:54 | |
They've got an image of Muslims, that's why they've got this... | 0:03:54 | 0:03:58 | |
-It's not good enough. -She's right, | 0:03:58 | 0:03:59 | |
but on top of that there's a thing called neighbourliness | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
that has almost disappeared. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
We need to bring it back, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:05 | |
because my people from here | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
have forgotten how to be good neighbours themselves | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
because they are locked into these little battery houses | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
where they never talk to the neighbours any more. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
Mm, I'm going to start making scones a lot now. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:19 | |
76-year-old Saba | 0:04:19 | 0:04:21 | |
lives in Nottingham with her husband. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
But Saba hasn't always been a Muslim. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
She was once Hilary. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:28 | |
I was somebody else. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
I was born in Calcutta, India, | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
I used to ride ponies, | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
and it was a very English, middle-class lifestyle. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:41 | |
During the '60s I was a hippie, I suppose, | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
but I wasn't a great heavy dope smoker. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
I did take one or two trips | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
because I needed to do it for my psychological health. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:51 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
I came to Islam from a very different place. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
But I know that, in a sense... That Allah has always been caring for me. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
Abdul Haq, please stop. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:03 | |
I was still speaking. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
We haven't got time for some people to go on and on and on. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
If I may interject. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
Next question, | 0:05:11 | 0:05:12 | |
"Muslims in Britain | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
"have failed to integrate into British society." | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
Agree: 49%. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:19 | |
Disagree: 20%. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
I think, in my opinion, as an outsider, | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
Muslims in Britain have massively failed to integrate. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
They are kind of in a closed bubble | 0:05:26 | 0:05:27 | |
where they only talk about certain things and they socialise alone | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
-without integrating with the society. -But there are areas where | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
white people don't want to integrate with the rest of Britain. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
Parts of Chelsea and Fulham where they just get together | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
and eat whatever it is that white people eat. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
I, as a white Muslim convert, | 0:05:42 | 0:05:43 | |
am sick of hearing Islam conflated with a racist agenda. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:46 | |
Islam is not limited to a race... | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
at all. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:50 | |
The problem is cultural Islam... | 0:05:50 | 0:05:52 | |
No, you should shut up because he wants to talk. Please stop. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:54 | |
There is a problem and the solution... | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
Stop being the dominating male, please, for goodness' sake. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
'I think we are integrated.' | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
We go to school, we go to university, we work. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:05 | |
How else do you fucking want me to integrate? | 0:06:05 | 0:06:07 | |
I don't understand. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
Hearing those questions | 0:06:18 | 0:06:19 | |
almost made Muslims seem like aliens, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
and so to actually hear the result, | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
I've never heard anything like it. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
That was shocking. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
That really surprised me. I was disappointed | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
in the British public. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
I thought they were good questions. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:35 | |
I think people have terrific enthusiasm | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
and everybody wants to contribute. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
But it's very important, the discipline of timing, | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
how long you speak, and also how often. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:47 | |
You've got to get that balance right in the communication area. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:51 | |
Saba always complains about male privilege. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
For example, Abdul Haq is never allowed to speak. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
When we are discussing race, she, as a white person, | 0:06:57 | 0:07:00 | |
wants to always throw in a, "Well, I'm a white Muslim | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
"so therefore Islam is not seen as a racial thing." | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
You're one person. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:06 | |
And I think today I will actually pull her up on it. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
When people find out that I'm not only black but also Muslim, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
it gets worse. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:16 | |
I used to have a joke... One of my favourite poets, Boonaa Mohammed, | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
says it - "I am black and I am Muslim, which means everywhere I go | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
"someone hates me." | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
Have I experienced Islamophobia? No. | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
Not at all. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:30 | |
SHE LAUGHS | 0:07:30 | 0:07:31 | |
Nothing. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:33 | |
The Muslims have come together from across Britain | 0:07:34 | 0:07:37 | |
to share their take on faith with each other. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:40 | |
But for the next few days they'll be joined by four non-Muslim locals. | 0:07:40 | 0:07:45 | |
'They were happy to live for five or six days...' | 0:07:45 | 0:07:47 | |
I was saying, "Let's clean, let's clean, let's clean..." | 0:07:47 | 0:07:50 | |
They find out four non-Muslims may be coming. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
"Oh, my God, we don't want them to think we are dirty. Let's clean. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
"Let's clean. Oh, my God." | 0:07:55 | 0:07:56 | |
'Somebody put mince with blood dripping in the fridge,' | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
they didn't mind. "Oh, it's fantastic, I like it." | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
But when non-Muslims are coming, or English people, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:04 | |
"Oh, my God, Goray are coming." | 0:08:04 | 0:08:06 | |
They learned how to clean, overnight. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
Something that they couldn't do for how many days? | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
That's colonial thinking for you. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
You don't care about yourself, you don't want good for your own | 0:08:13 | 0:08:17 | |
but you want to look good to Mr Davis. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
These York locals are curious about Islam. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
'I was reared in Catholicism but I don't practise a faith.' | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
I want society to be as integrated as possible, | 0:08:30 | 0:08:33 | |
so I want to understand more about Islam | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
and how we can actually help that work. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
They want to find out what being a Muslim in Britain really means. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:42 | |
'As a Catholic I want to get to know people's views' | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
on British values, | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
and I'd like to understand why there appears to be | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
a support for radicalism. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
'From an early age I decided that I was an atheist. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
'I don't agree with aspects of Islam' | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
that homosexuals should be stoned, | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
that women don't have an equal place in the world, | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
'and it will be interesting to see the views from both sides.' | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
They will be visiting the house each day | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
and showing the Muslims around York. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
They will try to understand what being part of the Muslim community | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
-is really about. -Hello. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:20 | |
-Here we go. -A tall order, | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
as the household has so far failed to agree | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
on what makes a good Muslim. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
I won't shake your hand but nice to meet you anyway. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:32 | |
It's nothing personal... | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
-My name is Abdul Haq, what's your name? -Jason. -Nice to meet you, Jason. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
-Say it again, sorry? -Abdul Haq. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
-Abdul Haq? -It means servant of the truth. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
Oh. OK. Now I know. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
'I'm a little nervous. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:45 | |
'I'm not religious myself.' | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
There are lots of names I'm going to have to remember, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:49 | |
which is always a challenge. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:50 | |
-Mehreen. -Mehreen? -Yes. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
-It's like a submarine. -Like water? -Yes. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
-Precisely. -I can remember that one. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:56 | |
I don't expect them to cry at Elgar or anything like that | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
but I think it would be interesting to see if they feel themselves as British as I do. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:04 | |
-And you? -Tom. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
-Tom. -Nice and easy one! | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
My dad was from Portugal via Pakistan. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
When you walked in, I thought Prince William was here. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
Ah, no, well, is that a compliment? | 0:10:16 | 0:10:18 | |
I suppose it might be. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
Hi, guys. Just to let you know, | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
I'm not being antisocial, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:24 | |
I'm just making lunch | 0:10:24 | 0:10:26 | |
and I don't want anything to burn. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:27 | |
-Welcome. -And you are...? | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
I'm Nabil. Nice to meet you. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
And do you like Britain? | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
Erm, good question, actually. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
I think Britain is quite a nice place. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
Maybe I had a misconception at one point | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
about the open sex culture | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
and they don't give their virginity to marriage. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:49 | |
So it was mainly about virgin issues. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
So why is it that when conflict takes place on the side of the Muslims, | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
it's terrorism, but when Britain, America and their allies conduct it, | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
it's justified? | 0:10:59 | 0:11:00 | |
Is it justified? | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
If the British government decides to go to war, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
and it's gone through our democracy, | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
and whether you like it or not, our democracy functions... | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
No, it doesn't. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
Have you always worn the veil? | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
The hijab I began wearing when I was in my early teens. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
And the niqab I didn't wear for long. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:20 | |
I think I wore that for a few months, | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
but I found it very practically difficult. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
This is going to sound really sad, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:26 | |
but I eat quite often | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
and I really struggled to eat with the niqab on! | 0:11:29 | 0:11:33 | |
Years ago, when I was doing my degree, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
there was a Muslim girl on my corridor | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
and I invited her a couple of times for drinks | 0:11:39 | 0:11:41 | |
and of course she never wanted to come. | 0:11:41 | 0:11:43 | |
So it does create a bit of an artificial barrier. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:45 | |
So why didn't you just invite her out to a restaurant | 0:11:45 | 0:11:48 | |
-or one of the numerous other places you go to. -Expensive! | 0:11:48 | 0:11:51 | |
Well, that's not any good excuse, is it? Alcohol is hardly cheap. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:53 | |
You could've gone to a milkshake bar, you can go to Nando's. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
I don't enjoy that. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
-I have once been to a Nando's. -Once been to a Nando's... | 0:11:58 | 0:12:01 | |
I didn't rate it, particularly. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
'I found that conversation really irritating.' | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
I think right now Jason thinks that Muslims | 0:12:07 | 0:12:09 | |
don't integrate and we believe that we are superior | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
and that's why we don't associate, but I think, actually, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
it's quite ironic because | 0:12:15 | 0:12:18 | |
as far as I can see right now, he's the one who thinks that he is superior, | 0:12:18 | 0:12:23 | |
and refuses to even change | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
the location of where he's asking a colleague | 0:12:26 | 0:12:30 | |
to come out to, | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
because of his arrogance. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
Guys, shall we go? | 0:12:34 | 0:12:36 | |
Where are we going? | 0:12:36 | 0:12:37 | |
Antique dealer Jon is proud of the city and its history. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:40 | |
Today he's planned a trip to a local landmark. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
A place with personal significance for him. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:46 | |
My father was an Army officer. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:48 | |
He served with the British Army, initially, | 0:12:48 | 0:12:50 | |
and we're going to the local war memorial just to pay respects to the people | 0:12:50 | 0:12:54 | |
who have died fighting for all of us. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
And I'll ask you to share this experience with me. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
I'm not going to come because I believe that those | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
who you speak about at the memorial, | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
they actually fought over dividing up the Muslim lands. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
Right, would you | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
accept that they also stopped | 0:13:12 | 0:13:17 | |
what was a massacre of the Jews? | 0:13:17 | 0:13:20 | |
Whatever good they done, they also done a lot of harm | 0:13:20 | 0:13:23 | |
in relation to the problems we see in the Middle East today. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
Abdul, I accept your point of view. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
No problem. Bye. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:29 | |
I'm coming with you. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
Is that something we agree on, Auntie? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
Yeah, absolutely. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:13:35 | 0:13:36 | |
In these memorials, very little respect is paid to the African soldiers that took part | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
or even to the Sikh. Recently there has been... | 0:13:40 | 0:13:42 | |
The Sikh, the Indians and the Muslim soldiers as well. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
So on that grounds... I respect you as a person, | 0:13:45 | 0:13:47 | |
but I will not attend this today. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
OK, I accept that, and thank you. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
But I do apologise if it offends you as a person. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
It doesn't offend me as a person. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:56 | |
It is entirely your decision. | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
I really reflect Nabil's views on this, | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
so with the greatest respect to your father and to yourself, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
I won't be coming today. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
-That's OK, that's fine, I accept that. -OK. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:08 | |
So I'm assuming I shall dismiss myself. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
Have a nice time, guys. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
It's always sad when you see this many names. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
-I know. -You can't even count them. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
You can't. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:36 | |
Most of them were kids. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
It says where they're from, as well. Middlesbrough, Leeds. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
I feel happy that some of you decided to come. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:51 | |
What do you feel about the ones who are not here? | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
Had it been the other way around, | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
had I been the person, | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
I think I would've gone out of respect to them. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
These guys gave their lives for you and me, so we could have our freedoms. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
You know, eventually, that's what it boils down to. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
You look around, you look at all these names, | 0:15:10 | 0:15:13 | |
and behind every single name, there's a family, there's a death. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
And you'd think we would have learned by now that this is | 0:15:16 | 0:15:18 | |
not the way to go. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
This is true. On the other hand, these people were conscripted. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
That's something we don't do any more, so I guess Britain's | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
moved on a little bit in terms of respecting people's rights... | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
Britain's moved on in terms of respecting people's rights? | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
There's no conscription, is what I'm getting at. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
And now they're fighting... with their free will. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
-Yes. -And that's a good thing? -It's a better thing. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
So the soldiers have chosen that lifestyle, haven't they? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
In both cases, it's still the people who decide to take the army | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
to war that have all the control and the power and... | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
Yes, but in theory, that's a democratic decision. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
-In theory. -Yeah. -And then Iraq happened. -Yeah. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:58 | |
Absolutely. | 0:15:58 | 0:15:59 | |
At the house, Nabil has something he wants to get off his chest. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
He's asked Saba for a word. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
I understand that, obviously, as a man, I have privileges. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:14 | |
But here's the thing - I've noticed whenever we discuss, | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
for example, the racial aspect of Islamophobia in the UK, | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
you tend to have a problem with it, and you tend to say, | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
"No, don't make it into a racist thing. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
"I'm English and I'm Muslim," which is true, you are, | 0:16:26 | 0:16:29 | |
but remember that when we speak of our experience as unique to us, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
and you stop us from discussing that, | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
you're doing the exact same thing that maybe | 0:16:34 | 0:16:37 | |
me and Abdul Haq might do if we dominate a discussion, | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
and it is very frustrating, because this is our experience. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:43 | |
-You don't get it, do you? Can I respond to that? -Sure. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
Because I want you to understand that my intervention | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
like that is not on the basis of what is being said. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
It's about time - give us time to talk. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:56 | |
Fair enough, for today, | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
but this isn't the first time that it's happened. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
Look, I've been in race demonstrations, I'm married to... | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
-I know that, but... -Please, please... | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
My point is that you keep shutting down racial discussions. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
Please, no, you're... That's paranoia. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
-Please give me space to talk... -Paranoia? | 0:17:10 | 0:17:11 | |
I just wanted you to look at the situation | 0:17:11 | 0:17:13 | |
a different way, that wasn't about anything to do with that. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
-It was to do with the fact... -So I should forget my experience? | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
Are you going to listen? | 0:17:18 | 0:17:19 | |
It's nothing to do with YOUR experience or MY experience. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
-It's not about us. -I'm making the point that you, as a white person, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
-don't have the right to tell me... -It's nothing about whiteness. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
-Listen, listen, listen... -That's white privilege in itself. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:32 | |
Yeah, do you know what it was about? It was about the time... | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
-You mentioned race. -No, no... -Tell me time. Tell me that you need time. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
Please, for God's sake, listen to me. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
-My... -But you don't listen to me. -I listened to you for hours. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
You told me not to mention my experiences. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
-The race thing. Please listen to me. -The race thing? -No, let me... | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
Listen, let it be about something else than race. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
Exactly, what I'm telling you is that you don't have | 0:17:51 | 0:17:53 | |
a right to tell me to make something not about race... | 0:17:53 | 0:17:55 | |
So will you listen to me talk about race? Because I'm a woman. | 0:17:55 | 0:17:57 | |
No, it wasn't about that, it was about the time that we were... | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
That's not what you said. You said stop talking about race. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
There was no time left for us to talk. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:03 | |
-Am I lying? -No, he's not lying. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
Why do you want to make me the villain? | 0:18:05 | 0:18:06 | |
-I'm not trying to make you the villain... -You are. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:08 | |
You're sitting there, being... "Yes, he's right". | 0:18:08 | 0:18:10 | |
You are, you're sitting there... I don't know why you're here at all. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
You weren't part of what I was going through. Why are you here? | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
What YOU were going through? | 0:18:15 | 0:18:17 | |
I'm the one who's being accused of this, you're not. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:19 | |
I didn't realise being accused of racism was worse than | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
actually experiencing racism, but all right. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:24 | |
You know, I do feel for white people that are against | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
white privilege, and have to hear these things, | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
because it's not nice to hear... The same way as a man, | 0:18:31 | 0:18:34 | |
I don't like hearing about what men have done and what men do. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
But at the same time, | 0:18:37 | 0:18:38 | |
I'm aware that I've probably had misogynistic views in my life, | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
and probably still have some, and that's life - you learn. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
And you unlearn. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
That's the whole point - if you're in a place of privilege, | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
you unlearn. I know I keep on talking about me being | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
a woman of colour, but I understand that I also have privileges, | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
because I'm not black, and like I said, | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
there's a lot of racism in our community. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
On the one hand, | 0:18:58 | 0:18:59 | |
we all say that Islam is a religion that promotes the rights of | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
women and the rights of black people, | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
whilst on the other hand being very misogynist and very anti-black. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
And we refuse to acknowledge our own hypocrisy there. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
Has it been problematic, being married to a Pakistani? | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
Yeah, being married to an Asian... | 0:19:15 | 0:19:17 | |
I mean, my wife's family are religious, not cultural, | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
so her family has been fantastic. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
But generally, a lot of people who know about this, you know, | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
from my stand-up and what not, it just becomes a means to abuse, so | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
I've had people messaging me, saying that my wife's a nigger-lover. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
"Why did one of our sisters marry a monkey, gorilla, ape?" | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
All these kind of things. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
You know, and it doesn't even bother me, cos I'm like... | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
If that's what comes to your mind, then obviously, | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
it's an insecurity that you have. You know? | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
Do you think we came across as a group OK? | 0:20:04 | 0:20:06 | |
There was a bit of fighting going on! | 0:20:06 | 0:20:08 | |
I think we came across as a group as we are, | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
which is constantly talking over our heads. I mean, it's a Muslim... | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
It's an Asian thing. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
I felt it was quite embarrassing. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
I mean, you already know you're going to enter a house with | 0:20:18 | 0:20:20 | |
ten Muslims, which makes us sound like aliens anyway. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
Then all ten look so different, | 0:20:23 | 0:20:25 | |
one's sitting all the way at the back at the fucking table... | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
And no-one knows why! | 0:20:28 | 0:20:29 | |
And everyone else is like, "No, this is Islam." "No, this is Islam." | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
The diversity ends up making it | 0:20:32 | 0:20:33 | |
look like none of us actually know what Islam is. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
Well, yeah, because we have so many different views. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
They probably think that we're extremists, for not going to | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
the World War II thing. They also rightfully think that | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
Abdul Haq should be arrested for his shoes. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
To be honest with you, | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
that Belmarsh thing had nothing to do with your beliefs. It's cos you wear Crocs. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
Jason couldn't pronounce my name, and he needed help, | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
so he wanted to just call me Ferdinand. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
He did what English people do - my sister's name is Shamayleh. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
She's been called Sheila ever since she was at school. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:10 | |
Now, Shamayleh's a beautiful name, and as I always say... | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
My friend used to say to me, "If we can do Engelbert Humperdinck, | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
-"you can do our names." -Yeah, exactly. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
-You know, just make a little effort. -Yeah. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
Get to know how you might pronounce it, so I just say | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
"Naila, like Isla, the name, just like this," but I thought there was | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
an arrogance in saying, "Can I call you Ferdinand?" | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
-Well, only if we can call you Jalaluddin. -Yeah! | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
How about this? | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
Oh, yeah. Very elegant. Nice. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
The other day, I think you said something like, | 0:22:05 | 0:22:08 | |
"There's got to be a Shi'a in the group". | 0:22:08 | 0:22:10 | |
I come from a Shi'a background, so I grew up in a Shi'a family. | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
But what's the main... | 0:22:13 | 0:22:14 | |
If you could give me a summary of the basic differences, | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
that would be helpful. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:20 | |
Shi'as believe that Imam Ali should have been the Caliph, | 0:22:20 | 0:22:23 | |
-straight after the Prophet died. -OK. -Whereas what actually happened | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
was that Abu Bakr became the first leader. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
For over 1,400 years, since the passing of Muhammad, | 0:22:29 | 0:22:33 | |
the Sunni/Shi'a split has raged. | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
This sectarian divide about the rightful heir to the Prophet | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
has caused bloodshed across the Muslim world. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
Zohra lives in North London, and even today, as a Shi'a Muslim, | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
she faces prejudice from Britain's overwhelmingly Sunni majority. | 0:22:49 | 0:22:53 | |
I was getting to know somebody once. It was one of these arranged things, | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
and somewhere towards the end of the day, | 0:22:57 | 0:22:59 | |
I guess I must have said something that implied that I'm Shi'a, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
and he suddenly went, "Oh, hang on a minute. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
"You're Shi'a - this is going to be a problem." | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
He had been married before, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:09 | |
and he'd been married to somebody who was not Muslim, | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
and that was fine, but marrying a Shi'a, he said, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
"My parents just couldn't deal with that. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:15 | |
"I just don't want to put them through it." | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
So situations like that are difficult. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:20 | |
Communities hate each other, and they're so petty. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
We should sort of move on from that kind of stuff. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
I mean, I've talked to people about it. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
I've talked to several people about it now. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
-I'm really worried about telling Abdul. -Really? -Yeah. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
Hopefully he'll think I'm a nice person, and then he'll think... | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
Can you accept that you are a nice person? | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
-It's irrelevant what he thinks, and if you want... -Yeah, I'm all right. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
-Have a conversation. -Yeah, I'm going to do that, but... | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
-Oh, our guests are here. -Oh, they're here? Oh. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
He's got a green bow tie on, and I've got a towel on my head. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
-Good morning, how are you? -Nice to see you. -Did you sleep well? | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
-How dapper do you look? -Yes, well, I thought I'd wear a bit of linen. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
-Cooler, in the... -It never occurred to me that you can have all these | 0:23:59 | 0:24:01 | |
different-coloured bow ties, as well. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
Yes, well, I thought, you don't want to be repetitive, do you? | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
Morning. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
-You all right? -Oh, hugs. -As always. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
The locals arrive for their second day of exploring | 0:24:11 | 0:24:13 | |
the British Muslim experience. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
-Good morning, how have you been? -Very well, actually. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:18 | |
-I brought you some flowers from my garden. -Oh, thank you very much. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
It's just a lovely smell. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:23 | |
After breakfast, attention turns to Allah and the afterlife. | 0:24:23 | 0:24:27 | |
I have issue with someone saying, "Cos you don't believe, | 0:24:27 | 0:24:30 | |
"you're going to hell." | 0:24:30 | 0:24:31 | |
I'm not into fire and brimstone preaching, personally. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
But are there versions of the Qur'an that say some people | 0:24:34 | 0:24:37 | |
will go to hell? Yes. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:38 | |
I don't really believe in heaven and hell like that. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
I don't care what you believe, I'm just stating that these are | 0:24:40 | 0:24:43 | |
the two different viewpoints, and I'm in the middle of them. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:46 | |
The Muslim is obliged to be truthful. | 0:24:46 | 0:24:48 | |
A Muslim is obliged to be truthful. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
Look to the history of Islam. I'm not talking about in general... | 0:24:50 | 0:24:54 | |
But you have a... | 0:24:54 | 0:24:55 | |
Kind of what I would call a narrow view of truth, | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
because you may actually be interpreting something, | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
and you may see something and write down what it is, | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
compared to someone else with another set of beliefs. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
Both will think it is truth. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:08 | |
I do believe in a heaven and a hell. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:10 | |
Maybe the picture I have in my mind might not be the same for me - | 0:25:10 | 0:25:13 | |
hell is being stuck in a U2 concert forever. | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
But it's still something I wouldn't want to experience. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
I believe in nur - light - and that's like heaven, and dark, | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
which is hell, and I believe it's in your day-to-day. Go on. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
I was going to say that I've never heard | 0:25:26 | 0:25:29 | |
so much emphasis on heaven and hell. Where is the focus on life? | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
-The life you're living. -Absolutely. -You don't live... | 0:25:33 | 0:25:35 | |
If you don't like the conversation we're having, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
don't tell me what I can talk about. | 0:25:37 | 0:25:39 | |
But don't think you can dominate the conversation. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
Dominate what conversation? | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
We came outside, we were talking to each other. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
-You came in and now you're telling me... -Nobody... | 0:25:45 | 0:25:47 | |
Can you just listen to Naila? | 0:25:47 | 0:25:49 | |
-No, no, no. -Can you just listen to Naila? | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
If you don't like what I'm discussing, go sit with | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
-someone else and speak with them. -Listen to Naila. -Why should I? | 0:25:54 | 0:25:56 | |
I don't understand you guys... Then go speak to someone else. | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
For fuck's sake. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:01 | |
There's just too much domination about what is the right way. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
It's ridiculous. You've got this life - live it. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
-And you come here... -You always dominate conversations. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
-Then go and have a conversation with someone else. -Just listen! | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
I don't want to listen to anything you have to say, | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
-cos you're full of shit. -Oh, there you go. Thank you. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
You've got no respect for people's opinions. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
No, I've got no respect for you, cos you've got none for me. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
-Do you know what? -Clearly you've got problems. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
You have got a bit of an issue with dominating conversations. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
Yeah, well, too bad. Discuss it with someone who doesn't. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:29 | |
Now you're walking away, goodbye. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
-Nabil... -Breathe. Breathe! | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
That really, really upset me. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:38 | |
He's dominating in his views, and quite aggressive. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
I hope it wasn't with any kind of malicious intent. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:45 | |
-Do you know the words of this? -No, I don't. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
Do you do any Bollywood songs? | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
Why actually was there such persecution between the | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
Shi'as and the Sunnis? | 0:27:10 | 0:27:11 | |
So, the Shi'a believe in a prophet after the prophet Muhammad, and that | 0:27:11 | 0:27:15 | |
negates the fundamentals of Islam, because the first thing that... | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
And Shi'as are actually saying that? | 0:27:18 | 0:27:20 | |
I thought they were simply saying that this actually is the way that | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
the kind of order of Islam should go, in terms of the Caliphate. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
But the one who says that there is a Prophet after the Prophet | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
Muhammad, peace be upon him, has left the fold of Islam. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
-I say it's a deviation. It's a deviation. -Er, no, it's not. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:38 | |
-I come from a Shi'a background. -Sure. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:40 | |
Do you see why that might be hurtful to me? | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
-Erm... -As in, can you appreciate why that might be hurtful for me? | 0:27:43 | 0:27:46 | |
That someone's saying all these things about people who come | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
-from my background. -If someone says "I'm a Shi'a," | 0:27:48 | 0:27:53 | |
I'm going to ask them what they believe. | 0:27:53 | 0:27:56 | |
If they curse sahabas, then from my point of view, | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
it takes them outside the fold of Islam. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:00 | |
And what does that mean? If you're outside the fold of Islam? | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
It means they are a kuffar. A five-star, grade-A kuffar. | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
And what does that mean? | 0:28:07 | 0:28:08 | |
-That means that they're going to go to the hellfire. -Holy Moley! | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
My dad's friend was murdered in the mosque. He went to pray. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
The man was praying with his son. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:16 | |
A bunch of people come in, shoot up the entire mosque. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
All of the men die, including the boys, because somebody believed that | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
they're outside the fold of Islam, and therefore they should die. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
-So the ideology, to me, is scary. -Who told you that the person... | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
The reason why your father's friend was killed was... | 0:28:31 | 0:28:33 | |
Do you think that's wrong? | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
-No, let me ask you... -Do you think that's wrong? -From the divine | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
point of view, I haven't got any evidence to say wrong or right, | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
and I'll ask this... | 0:28:40 | 0:28:41 | |
Well, you think that you don't have the divine text evidence | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
to say that that is wrong. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:48 | |
-No, I don't. -So you actually agree that it is right? | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
I haven't agreed or disagreed. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
I can't believe that you're saying there's | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
a situation in which someone has an idea, | 0:28:54 | 0:28:55 | |
someone else has an idea, someone kills someone for that, | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
and, "Hmm, I'm not sure if that's OK or not. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
"Could murder be OK or not?" | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
OK, OK, OK, let's look to that... | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
I'm shaking, I'm so worried about what you're saying. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
-Yeah, I find that worrying too. -Let's fall back on the evidence. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
-The Prophet said, "Whoever leaves the fold of Islam, kill him." -What?! | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
"Whoever turns his back on the din of Islam, kill him." | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
I feel like I need to call the anti-terrorism police. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:21 | |
-If you're... -I can't believe you're not just saying "no" right now. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:23 | |
If you're... | 0:29:23 | 0:29:24 | |
What if I went to a mosque and I was praying and somebody shot me? | 0:29:24 | 0:29:29 | |
Would you think that was wrong? | 0:29:29 | 0:29:31 | |
-If you are a believer... -Oh, my God! | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
If you're a believer, you're going to paradise, | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
and death is something no man can avoid, | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
that point of death is already decreed for an individual. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
And the greatest evil... The greatest bad is not someone dying. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
Everybody's going to die, and no-one can escape death. | 0:29:44 | 0:29:47 | |
I'm standing up because there's a hadith that says | 0:29:47 | 0:29:49 | |
when you're angry, if you're sitting down, you should stand up, | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
because I'm a Muslim. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:53 | |
Oh, man. | 0:29:58 | 0:29:59 | |
I'm upset, because... | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
the idea that someone thinks that they could kill someone like me... | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
..or my friends or... | 0:30:14 | 0:30:15 | |
I get why he was in Belmarsh. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:26 | |
His ideas are crazy. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:28 | |
He thinks that it's OK... | 0:30:28 | 0:30:30 | |
He was very careful not to say those words, | 0:30:30 | 0:30:33 | |
but he thinks that it's OK to kill people, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:36 | |
which is ridiculous, cos it's completely un-Islamic | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
and I sort of feel like he needs to be reported to someone | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
for crazy views, because that's completely unacceptable. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:47 | |
His ideas are extremely dangerous. They have consequences. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
I worry for the kids that he speaks to. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
It's so bizarre, though, because last night, | 0:30:54 | 0:30:56 | |
he was fine sitting at the table with girls. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
It was, like, progress. It was like, "Oh, you know, | 0:30:59 | 0:31:01 | |
"actually, underneath the kind of scary weirdness, | 0:31:01 | 0:31:03 | |
"Abdul's all right." | 0:31:03 | 0:31:05 | |
But he's not. He is not all right. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
And I want to know that the rest of the Muslim community | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
also think that he's batshit crazy. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:13 | |
Jason's keen to show off his hometown, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
so he's organised a walk around the city, | 0:31:31 | 0:31:33 | |
to take in all its historic glory. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
So, we're coming up to the Minster. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
Of course, a fine old example of Perpendicular Gothic architecture. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
-Perpendicular Gothic architecture? -Yes. Up, down, perpendicular. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
-Oh, I see. -Exactly. | 0:31:48 | 0:31:49 | |
I think it would be quite nice to get an ice cream. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
-Do you want an ice cream? -Yes. -Let's have an ice cream. | 0:31:54 | 0:31:57 | |
You can take in the views of the Minster while we're here. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:02 | |
-It is beautiful, isn't it? -Does it have any resonance with you? | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
I mean, you regard yourself as British, don't you? So... | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
Do you look on it like...? | 0:32:15 | 0:32:17 | |
-What am I supposed to feel when I look at it? -I don't know. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:19 | |
-I don't look at it and think it's part of my heritage. -OK. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
-The building itself doesn't count as...? -No, it doesn't. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
We'll get a nice view from the top. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
-Quite nice and leafy as well. -Yeah, good. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
-INTERVIEWER: -Are you Muslim first or British first? | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
Well, I'm Scottish, remember. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:41 | |
I kind of don't... I can't even answer that question. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:46 | |
It's like saying, "Are you female first or Asian first?" | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
I would say that I'm Muslim first, in all seriousness. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
Yeah. What's wrong with that? | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
I'm British first. That's me, that's my nation, that's my culture. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:02 | |
And my Islam is simply a way of living as a British person. | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
To me, this is quintessentially a British scene, | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
and these things, to me, | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
are a source of great nostalgia and pride. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
And I was just asking Mehreen what she thought about this, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
and, well, what was your response? | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
It's very beautiful, but I'm a London girl, | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
so the last thing I associate with being British | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
is greenery and nature. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
Fields and things don't make me feel very British. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
That is a very interesting observation, | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
-that we have different views of what Britishness is. -Mm-hm. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
Yours is very more urban, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:40 | |
mine is a bit more - what? Provincial, | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
a bit more sort of, I don't know... | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
-Mine's city life. -Yours is noise and, you know... | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
KFC wrappers on the floor and things like that. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:51 | |
No, I don't think London equates to KFC wrappers. | 0:33:51 | 0:33:54 | |
I think London also equates to Harrods, | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
which is quite the opposite of KFC wrappers on the floor. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:59 | |
-Good... -But it's still the city. -Good consumerist... | 0:33:59 | 0:34:01 | |
We keep having these conversations about what Britishness is, | 0:34:01 | 0:34:04 | |
and it's extremely hard from within to say what it is. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
I don't think about being British, I just am. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
-Exactly. -Exactly. -Just as you are British... -Yes. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
I don't identify as British, and I'll tell you why. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:14 | |
As a child, I was really, really proud to be British, | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
but I was told in primary school | 0:34:17 | 0:34:19 | |
that I was a, "Fucking Paki terrorist that should go back home." | 0:34:19 | 0:34:23 | |
And... | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
If I need... If you want me to identify as British, | 0:34:25 | 0:34:27 | |
then I need white British people in this country | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
to actually accept me as British first, | 0:34:30 | 0:34:32 | |
and that's never happened. | 0:34:32 | 0:34:33 | |
What I think when I think about Britishness is intolerance. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
I look at the draconian laws which have been in place for the Muslims right now. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:39 | |
I know of individuals who haven't committed any crime, | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
but the police have gone to their house, | 0:34:42 | 0:34:44 | |
they're going to take you out of your home, going to put a GPS tag on your foot | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
that's going to monitor everywhere you go... | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
I don't think you can talk about persecution, | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
cos you think persecuting Shi'as is OK, | 0:34:51 | 0:34:53 | |
so he doesn't really have a leg to stand on. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:54 | |
You're talking about a completely alien point. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
You shouldn't talk about persecution if you think that persecuting people is OK. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:00 | |
If you want to jump from one subject to the next, we won't get anywhere, | 0:35:00 | 0:35:02 | |
so you continue talking about something that's unrelated, | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
-that's your business. -I'm talking about persecution. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:07 | |
I believe that Britain stands for intolerance. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
Any point that says we've got freedom of choice, | 0:35:11 | 0:35:14 | |
you're going to get Abdul Haq going, | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
and now you've got Zohra going, and I feel like we're in a zoo. | 0:35:16 | 0:35:20 | |
And day in, day out, it's... | 0:35:20 | 0:35:22 | |
..I'm overloaded with the same bullshit. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:27 | |
It's your experience, but I'm happy to be British Muslim, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:31 | |
and I'm practising the way I want to practise. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:34 | |
Your point of view is valid. You cannot represent all of us. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:38 | |
This Ramadan alone, I went to many mosques up and down the country, | 0:35:38 | 0:35:41 | |
and the amount of Muslims that I spoke to | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
who maybe don't even share my views | 0:35:43 | 0:35:45 | |
have had their funds seized, their passports taken, | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
their children taken. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
Imagine you've got children... | 0:35:50 | 0:35:51 | |
Imagine someone comes to you and wants to take your child away | 0:35:51 | 0:35:54 | |
because of your religious beliefs, | 0:35:54 | 0:35:55 | |
and you want to tell me that the UK is tolerant? | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
-Because you can practice Islam freely? -I understand. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:00 | |
It's not just me, it's the whole of the Muslim community. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
If you say, "I'm Muslim and I practise Islam | 0:36:02 | 0:36:04 | |
"and I identify with the problems with Muslims around the world," | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
then they will come down on you and call you a fundamentalist. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
Just talking his usual crap. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
-It's just that now, we know what he thinks. -Yeah. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
This side of him is just obsessive. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
It just goes on and on, and rants on and doesn't... | 0:36:16 | 0:36:18 | |
Everybody else disappears. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
When you see a mother crying as to why her child's been taken away from her | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
and she's done nothing wrong, it's a problem. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
-Unless she's Shi'a, because then it's OK. -You keep talking... | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
OK, I think I'm done now. I'll leave you here. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
Don't leave. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:33 | |
-JASON: -I don't know what points we've made, if any, | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
but shall we continue with...? | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
-The walk! The lovely walk! -Before it starts raining. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:39 | |
All I wanted to do was show people a nice old cathedral | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
and walk along a wall and see a few gardens, | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
but that seems to have been tremendously divisive. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
It wasn't an exercise to go, | 0:36:53 | 0:36:55 | |
-"Listen, you need to start respecting how Britain is." -It's not... | 0:36:55 | 0:36:57 | |
And I feel like that's how some people kind of perceived it, | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
and that clearly wasn't what it was. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:03 | |
-So, this right-hand... -Down, down, down. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
Wow! | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
'They are a divided bunch, so that's a finding,' | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
which, I guess in terms of Islamophobia, | 0:37:11 | 0:37:14 | |
it demonstrates that it's a non-stance | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
because you don't quite know what you're phobic against, are you? | 0:37:16 | 0:37:20 | |
I've experienced loads of Islamophobia on social media. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
The biggest thing was someone saying that they were going to kidnap me | 0:37:25 | 0:37:31 | |
and gang-rape me | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
and they would force me to have their children. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
Um... | 0:37:38 | 0:37:39 | |
That was, I think, the biggest thing that someone... | 0:37:39 | 0:37:45 | |
I'm sorry. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
SHE SNIFFS | 0:37:55 | 0:37:56 | |
OK, OK, OK, OK. Ali, Ali, Ali, Ali, Ali. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
This is Ali. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:22 | |
OK, OK. Amir Khan, Amir Khan. Do Amir Khan. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:38:31 | 0:38:32 | |
Seriously, you know, after having a conversation with Abdul, | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
I just was looking for some comfort, I opened the Koran, | 0:38:38 | 0:38:40 | |
and the first verse that I fell on said, | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
"Don't heed the warnings of a madman." | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
And that just made me laugh. I was like, "Oh, that's really funny." | 0:38:46 | 0:38:50 | |
-Yeah. -Exactly. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:52 | |
I'm not saying he's a madman. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
But he is a bit. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:57 | |
I'm surprised. Do you think it's weird that I'm surprised? | 0:39:05 | 0:39:07 | |
Like, are you surprised that he had that view? | 0:39:07 | 0:39:10 | |
Sometimes I don't think he fully understands | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
exactly what he's saying. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:14 | |
But it is a surprising view, right? | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
Like, this isn't...? These aren't your views, right? | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
-No, no. -Do I have a problem with Shi'as that say certain things? | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
Yes. I'm not going to pretend just because you're in front of me. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
-Yeah, sure. -But you know, you can't just decide it's OK to kill people. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
What exactly did you say? | 0:39:34 | 0:39:35 | |
-Because I do have a problem with you if you said that. -It's not... | 0:39:35 | 0:39:39 | |
-You didn't say it's OK for her to be killed...? -No, I did not say that. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:42 | |
-Do you believe that? -I didn't... No, and the record will show that. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
If someone came to me and said, | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
"I don't give a shit if you get shot," I'd be sad, | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
and you can see that, right? That's common sense. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:52 | |
-Agreed? -Yeah, yeah. -She thinks you haven't got that common sense. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:55 | |
You know, she was crying, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:56 | |
and she's not even the most sensitive person in the house. | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
-She's not. -She was crying because she... | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
She was so shaken up by what you said, | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
she even asked me, "Do you believe this, too? | 0:40:04 | 0:40:06 | |
"Do you really think it's OK for me to be shot?" | 0:40:06 | 0:40:08 | |
Cos that makes you seem like a monster. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
There's no way that she could have taken what I said in that manner. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:15 | |
I said the worst thing in life is dying having not embraced Islam. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:19 | |
Listen, if she asked you and that was your answer... | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
-No, but... -That was your answer, man. I heard it. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
-I was so clear... -So, just talk about it. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
She's the type of person which I don't really want to interact with. | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
I don't want to interact with her. That's my stance. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:34 | |
-How about just apologising? -I don't need to speak to her. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:37 | |
She doesn't need to speak to me. So let's leave it at that. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
-Have a good sleep? -Good enough. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:08 | |
When I got back from my run this morning, | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
Abdul unplugged his microphone and asked if I had a microphone on, | 0:41:15 | 0:41:19 | |
and said... "I just want you to know | 0:41:19 | 0:41:23 | |
"that you are the most sincere person in this house | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
"and I don't think you should die." | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
And I said, "Thanks for saying that." | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
And then he left. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:34 | |
He's got this sort of simple and straight way of thinking, | 0:41:37 | 0:41:41 | |
and I think he thinks that if he apologises, | 0:41:41 | 0:41:43 | |
that somehow it means that something he said was wrong, | 0:41:43 | 0:41:46 | |
and he doesn't think that anything he says is wrong. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:49 | |
He's not very good at communication, | 0:41:51 | 0:41:52 | |
he doesn't have much emotional intelligence, | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
and that's why I wonder whether there's something actually up there. | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
I'm really confused about him. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:02 | |
I'm not really sure who he is. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
What do you like in a woman? What do you like about women? | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
I don't think it's appropriate to talk about that. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:20 | |
-Why? ..English! -Yeah, it's very English. -Behave. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
We can't say things are very English or not very English. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
-There's a beautiful woman sitting over there. -There is. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:31 | |
-Ohh! -Exactly. -A very glamorous, glamorous woman... | 0:42:31 | 0:42:34 | |
There's a woman sitting there. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:35 | |
-I'm going to... -Randomly go up... -..go over there now... | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
And what would you say? | 0:42:38 | 0:42:39 | |
And I want you to say the first thing that comes to mind. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:41 | |
-I'll be your wingman. -I wouldn't say anything. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
-You go there... -I'll be your wingman. Are we going now? | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
-What, are we going to...? -OK. Come on. -What are we doing? -I'm being your wingman. | 0:42:46 | 0:42:50 | |
When we found out non-Muslims were going to come, I thought, | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
"I see non-Muslims every day, so what's the big deal?" | 0:42:54 | 0:42:58 | |
But actually, their questions and their involvement | 0:42:58 | 0:43:02 | |
has caused a major reaction. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:04 | |
You could say something to me. Say, "There's a lovely damsel..." | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
Oh, what a beautiful creature sitting in the corner. | 0:43:07 | 0:43:11 | |
-I've always thought so, you know. -Absolutely arresting. -Yes. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
-I particularly love the beard. -Oh-ho-ho! | 0:43:13 | 0:43:15 | |
-You like a beard on a girl. -Absolutely. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
I would have never thought the tour of York | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
would incite such strong opinions | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
and passionate debates and arguments, | 0:43:24 | 0:43:27 | |
and that wouldn't have happened | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
had Jason not stood and said it makes him feel British. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:34 | |
-And what's your name? -Jalaluddin. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:43:36 | 0:43:39 | |
Jalal... What a nice name. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:40 | |
-Would you like to sit down? -I'd love to sit down. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
Yes, absolutely. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:44 | |
So, what's a nice girl like you doing in a place like this? | 0:43:44 | 0:43:47 | |
-I'm just waiting for a nice guy like you. -Oh, really? Gosh, well... | 0:43:47 | 0:43:51 | |
Get your coat, you've pulled! | 0:43:53 | 0:43:55 | |
I just want to go home now, man. | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
'I think there has been the emergence of a more orthodox group,' | 0:44:00 | 0:44:05 | |
and then you've got the liberal group. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:07 | |
The main disparity between the two groups now | 0:44:08 | 0:44:11 | |
is one, where I'm not entirely sure | 0:44:11 | 0:44:13 | |
where the halal, haram, | 0:44:13 | 0:44:14 | |
allowed, not allowed, heaven-hell boundaries lie, | 0:44:14 | 0:44:17 | |
and one where they're saying it's quite clear-cut, | 0:44:17 | 0:44:20 | |
this is in the book, don't deny it. | 0:44:20 | 0:44:21 | |
And then I'm in the middle. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:23 | |
I guess that means I'm kind of in the middle in my practice. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:26 | |
The group are preparing dinner. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:35 | |
INDISTINCT | 0:44:35 | 0:44:38 | |
But they're yet to agree on the menu. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:40 | |
I'm going to make a saag and chicken. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
-I love saag and chicken. -Ooh! | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
Can you take... | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
Can we do half and half? | 0:44:47 | 0:44:48 | |
Cos me and Nabil have bought ingredients to make chicken. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
-Oh, right, yeah, that's fine. -Is that all right? -Yeah. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:53 | |
-ZOHRA: -I think Ferhan's also making something. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
That's all right cos I went and bought stuff to cook. | 0:44:55 | 0:44:57 | |
-Is that your Sainsbury's bag? -Yeah. | 0:44:57 | 0:44:59 | |
-That wasn't even on the budget, either. -Ooh! | 0:44:59 | 0:45:01 | |
Dipped into my tiny pocket. So, yeah... | 0:45:01 | 0:45:05 | |
Those mine you're chopping up? | 0:45:06 | 0:45:08 | |
-Um, just using any old thing... -Did you ask? | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
-Excuse me... -I went out and got something with my own pocket. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:14 | |
No, Nabil, don't get in my face. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:16 | |
-Don't touch my stuff. -Go away. Go away. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:17 | |
Maybe your mother didn't teach you not to touch other people's things. | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
-Don't talk about my mother! -Maybe... | 0:45:20 | 0:45:23 | |
Don't you dare talk about my mother, OK?! | 0:45:23 | 0:45:25 | |
-Keep shouting. -Don't you dare talk about my mother! | 0:45:25 | 0:45:28 | |
-That was crossing the line. -I don't care. | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
I bought stuff with my pocket... | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
In this day, you can ask for the money back. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:34 | |
Like I said, maybe some people weren't taught that. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
-Don't touch my stuff. -You don't talk about somebody's mother. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
And you don't touch other people's things. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
And then you tell me go away? | 0:45:41 | 0:45:42 | |
If I don't go away, what are you going to do? | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
What are you going to do? | 0:45:44 | 0:45:46 | |
-Don't touch my things. -You're just a baby. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:47 | |
Did you ask me? You don't have manners. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
Yeah, only you've got manners, hey? | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
-Have I taken anyone's things? -Listen, it's not... -You're an idiot. | 0:45:52 | 0:45:56 | |
And you can shout as much... | 0:45:56 | 0:45:57 | |
-This is bullying. -Stop abusing people. | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
You're an idiot as well. It's not bullying. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
You took my stuff. You're taking my stuff. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:04 | |
You talk loud and you're abusive and aggressive | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
-and you think that's allowed. -Who's abusive now? | 0:46:06 | 0:46:08 | |
I bought something and you took it. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
Like I said, you clearly have no manners. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
Do not touch my stuff. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
-Oh, get out. -Or what? What are you going to do if I don't? | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
Yeah, yeah, show your aggression! | 0:46:19 | 0:46:20 | |
Aggressive to men, aggressive to women, aggressive to the elderly. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:24 | |
He took my stuff, you idiot. He took my stuff. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:27 | |
He took my stuff. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:29 | |
-Back off! Back off! -Can you mind your own business? | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
-What's he going to do? -Back off! | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
-Back off! Back off! -It's none of your business. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:38 | |
What, are you hanging about waiting to say goodbye? | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
-No, I need my bag. -I'll get it. Which one is it? | 0:46:40 | 0:46:43 | |
-Yeah, as if it's gold. -Piss off. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
As if he's going to die without his stuff cos he paid for it. | 0:46:45 | 0:46:49 | |
-You're a fucking bully. -That's right - you are. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
I'm being taken out of the room. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:53 | |
Someone took my things, and I asked him, | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
"Did you take it out of the Sainsbury's bag." | 0:46:55 | 0:46:57 | |
-"Oh, just go away, go away." -Such an idiot. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
You know, I'm going back in the kitchen. | 0:47:00 | 0:47:02 | |
-I want to take my things. -Let's go. -Yeah? | 0:47:02 | 0:47:04 | |
FERHAN SIGHS | 0:47:06 | 0:47:09 | |
I don't need to be out of the kitchen. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:10 | |
-Don't touch my stuff. Use your own. -You know what? Have your onion. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
-It's so stupid. -Yeah. -I can't... | 0:47:14 | 0:47:19 | |
-We'll see you tomorrow. -Yes. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
-They mean a lot to you, don't they? -Yeah, yeah. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:23 | |
My things mean a lot to me, cos, unlike you, | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
my mother taught me not to take other people's things. Yeah? | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
FERHAN CRIES | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
Listen, it's OK. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:34 | |
As if he can just bully you and you're going to have to take it. No! | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
'He's coming up to me like he wants to fight.' | 0:47:38 | 0:47:40 | |
I just say there's a bias. | 0:47:40 | 0:47:42 | |
I'm sorry, but I wouldn't be allowed to get away with behaving like that. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
I could not charge up to somebody aggressively that way. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
-HE SOBS -It's OK, it's OK. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
It's OK. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:52 | |
(Shh... It's OK.) | 0:47:53 | 0:47:55 | |
Well, at least he chopped the onions. That's one job done. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
You said it from the heart. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
-It was so painful for you to hear that. -Yeah, really was. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:07 | |
And we judge ourselves, thinking, | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
oh, we shouldn't have reacted like that, or whatever, | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
whether it's me being furious and raging. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
-But he's talking about your mother... -My mother. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
..and how she's brought you up | 0:48:17 | 0:48:20 | |
-He has no limit to how nasty he can be about... -No! | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
He gives himself permission to go any place, | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
get as personal as you want. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
I mean, it just reveals how ludicrous and immature he is. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
We're going to have this complete divide. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:36 | |
-There's no pretence. -No way. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
Thanks so much, Nabil. It's amazing. It's so tasty. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:59 | |
Yeah, you know me, bullying and cooking. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
There was an explosion, | 0:49:07 | 0:49:08 | |
but I've seen it building over a few days now. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
It's like a volcano. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:12 | |
I think it's good, it's sort of like, boom, better out than in, man. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:16 | |
That happening made our situation that much more real. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
We're not a bunch of holy people sitting around being pious. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:25 | |
This is about the reality of Muslims | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
and the life that goes on around them and what happens between them. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:34 | |
Allah... | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
It's valuable because it shows one more and more | 0:49:37 | 0:49:40 | |
it's a mistake to carry around a rigid idea of what Islam is. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:45 | |
Allah... | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
Each of us has trouble, each of us has something, | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
we have to learn to ride it properly. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
And we say if you feel troubled and disturbed, | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
turn to the law of the universe. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
Just don't splurge out on the people. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
It's futile. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:02 | |
-Do you see my hair? -Hm? -What the hell is wrong with...? | 0:50:19 | 0:50:22 | |
It's a very healthy head of hair you have. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
It's the final morning in York. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
After ten days, | 0:50:28 | 0:50:29 | |
everyone is ready to leave the place they've made their home. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
I'm feeling quite tired. Very tired, very tired. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:38 | |
-OBJECT CLATTERS -Ooh! | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
You lot are too scared to accept that you wear Crocs... | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
Just put the things away, man. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
Putting them away, but they'll be coming back out when I get home. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
We've already got enough things, us Muslims, to be sorry for. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
OK, 7/7, 9/11, Citizen Khan, and now this? Oh, man. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:58 | |
To celebrate, they're having a barbecue. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
And they've invited the locals back for one last time. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:06 | |
Hello! Oh, I love your outfit. | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
-Hello, hello. -It's my favourite. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
Wow! Look... | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
I must be synchronised with your colouring. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:15 | |
Oh, yes, perfect. | 0:51:15 | 0:51:17 | |
Just because we had some disagreements, | 0:51:19 | 0:51:21 | |
that doesn't mean that we can't sit and eat together. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:24 | |
Yesterday, it was all a bit tense, wasn't it? | 0:51:26 | 0:51:28 | |
It was all a bit tense... | 0:51:28 | 0:51:29 | |
-It's all sort of calmed down now. -Seems to be a happier household. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:33 | |
THEY SING | 0:51:33 | 0:51:36 | |
# My name is Sheila... # | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:51:39 | 0:51:41 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
You're so violent, man. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:50 | |
You're so abusive. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:53 | |
Are you sure you know what you're doing? | 0:51:56 | 0:51:57 | |
I ain't seen no-one season no food round here. | 0:51:57 | 0:51:59 | |
You haven't seen me season food? | 0:51:59 | 0:52:01 | |
-Let it percolate. -To perco...?! | 0:52:01 | 0:52:04 | |
HE LAUGHS HYSTERICALLY | 0:52:04 | 0:52:06 | |
Percolate food... | 0:52:11 | 0:52:13 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:52:13 | 0:52:15 | |
-MEHREEN: -I'm so excited. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:19 | |
And so hungry. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
The end is in sight. | 0:52:22 | 0:52:24 | |
I just want to literally have a nice time today. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
-Like, I'm not going to sit and harbour negativity. -No, absolutely. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:32 | |
Allah is our judge - not people. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
-We look sexy. -I don't believe that. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
OK. I'm going to do this the best that I can. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
In the kitchen, Mehreen is getting her own halal makeover. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:51 | |
Here we go. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
I feel like a rich Arab wife. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:56 | |
It actually looks better than I thought it would look. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
-What do you think, Abdul Haq? -Much better. Masha'Allah. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
-Much better? -Obviously, from an Islamic point of view. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:05 | |
-What about from your point of view? -I have no point of view. -Good. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:09 | |
I feel like a supermodel. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:10 | |
I don't think feeling like a supermodel | 0:53:10 | 0:53:12 | |
is the purpose behind the hijab. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
I can't help it if I look nice with my hair covered. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
-Am I still wearing it wrong? -I don't know the specifics. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:22 | |
Some say, what you're wearing now, | 0:53:22 | 0:53:24 | |
it's a lot more better than what you were wearing yesterday. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:26 | |
I think it's none of his business what I wear. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:29 | |
It's her family's business, and... | 0:53:29 | 0:53:30 | |
I think it's none of his business what I wore yesterday, | 0:53:30 | 0:53:33 | |
and he should have lowered his gaze, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:34 | |
you wouldn't know what I was wearing yesterday. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:36 | |
You're just winding him up. Stop it. | 0:53:36 | 0:53:38 | |
Wear the hijab on your tongue, girl. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:43 | |
He's been going on about the hijab for so long, | 0:53:48 | 0:53:50 | |
that I couldn't put it on and not ask him any questions. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
I understand. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:54 | |
So, if you just take a wee bit, sorry. | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
-What is this? -Kebab. -Ooh! | 0:53:59 | 0:54:01 | |
-Kebab? -Oh, God... -Chris. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
Can I say something, please? | 0:54:04 | 0:54:06 | |
Can I thank you all for actually putting up with us. | 0:54:06 | 0:54:11 | |
And this has been a wonderful integration, in many ways, | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
so thank you for allowing me to be part of it | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
-and actually allowing me to share... -She speaks for us all, of course. | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
I came in having no Muslim friends, | 0:54:21 | 0:54:23 | |
and I hope I have, now, ten. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:25 | |
Maybe we can go shopping at Harrods or something like that, | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
that would be quite nice. I hope. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
And of course, you will, I hope, look me up if ever you're in York. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:33 | |
I came in definitely confused, | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
and I'm sure I am leaving more confused. | 0:54:35 | 0:54:38 | |
But I've also learnt that | 0:54:38 | 0:54:40 | |
the only way to resolve issues | 0:54:40 | 0:54:43 | |
is by learning more and more about | 0:54:43 | 0:54:46 | |
the people that you are talking about. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:48 | |
There's a lot more that connects us and that we share in common | 0:54:48 | 0:54:52 | |
than we don't. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:53 | |
We are all individuals, | 0:54:53 | 0:54:54 | |
we're all built, sculpted by our experiences in life. | 0:54:54 | 0:54:58 | |
I think it's really important that non-Muslims see | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
that you can't just say, "Muslims think this," | 0:55:03 | 0:55:04 | |
or, "Muslims are like that." | 0:55:04 | 0:55:06 | |
Actually, I don't think you can even define what a Muslim is like. | 0:55:06 | 0:55:10 | |
I don't know if Muslims can even define what... | 0:55:10 | 0:55:12 | |
I mean, really, if we tried to define a Muslim between the ten of us, | 0:55:12 | 0:55:15 | |
can you imagine the craziness that would ensue? | 0:55:15 | 0:55:18 | |
Even though it felt emotional at times, | 0:55:18 | 0:55:20 | |
I think it was healthy that we actually showed | 0:55:20 | 0:55:24 | |
that we're no different to any other society | 0:55:24 | 0:55:27 | |
and that we all have our different ways. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:32 | |
You know, we don't all agree with each other, | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
but one thing that was inspiring | 0:55:35 | 0:55:37 | |
was that, inherently, we all want to do good. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
And while we all argue about what wallpaper should be on, | 0:55:40 | 0:55:44 | |
we are still part of the same house. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:46 | |
When you're just around each other | 0:55:47 | 0:55:49 | |
and you get past the bits you find difficult to digest, | 0:55:49 | 0:55:52 | |
companionship, which is a pillar of Islam, | 0:55:52 | 0:55:55 | |
works miraculously when you're just living together. | 0:55:55 | 0:55:59 | |
There is the brother or cousin or auntie | 0:55:59 | 0:56:01 | |
you find a bit tricky or difficult, | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
but you accept them and you accept the difficult parts as well. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:08 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:56:10 | 0:56:13 | |
We learnt to live together, which is the key. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:16 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
Anything said, it was just in the moment. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:39 | |
Sure, that's fine. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:41 | |
-I'm going to... -No! | 0:56:41 | 0:56:43 | |
Got it! Done! | 0:56:43 | 0:56:44 | |
-See you later, man. Take care. All the best, yeah? -Take care. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
See later, man. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
-Take care, Abdul. -As-salamu alaykum. I'll see you. | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
It was great having you in the room. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:59 | |
-Are you going to call me? -Absolutely, yes. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 | |
Every time you need your make-up done? | 0:57:01 | 0:57:02 | |
Yes, that'll last about, what, ten years from now. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:05 | |
I don't know why I'm crying so much. | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
So, this is it. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:11 | |
Khuda hafiz. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:18 | |
'I would like to say to the Muslims in Britain, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:22 | |
'come out from your houses, your families,' | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
and really fully arrive in this country. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:29 | |
Really engage with the British people | 0:57:29 | 0:57:31 | |
cos that's your duty, that's what you have to do here. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:33 | |
You have to teach them what Islam is about, move on from the culture. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:37 | |
Let's go, let's go. | 0:57:37 | 0:57:39 | |
Say bye to our house, our ten-bedroom house. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:42 | |
It's the nicest house I've ever been in. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
-I'm going to miss the garden. -Oh, my God, the grass. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
'We're not the enemy.' | 0:57:47 | 0:57:48 | |
We live next to you, we operate on you, we cook for you, | 0:57:48 | 0:57:51 | |
we drive you, we teach you, and everything in between. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
We even entertain you on stage. | 0:57:54 | 0:57:56 | |
A bed for every night. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:02 | |
'We are just people' | 0:58:02 | 0:58:04 | |
who want normal things from life. | 0:58:04 | 0:58:06 | |
We're people who fall short, and we're people who try our best, | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
just like everyone else. | 0:58:10 | 0:58:11 | |
The next time you see a Muslim, | 0:58:15 | 0:58:17 | |
maybe try and say hi. | 0:58:17 | 0:58:19 | |
See what happens. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:20 |