Shankly: Nature's Fire


Shankly: Nature's Fire

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# Once upon a time there was a tavern

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# Where we used to raise a glass or two

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# Remember how we laughed away the hours

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# Think of all the great things we would do

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# Those were the days, my friend

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# We thought they'd never end

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# We'd sing and dance forever and a day

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# We'd live the life we'd choose

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# We'd fight and never lose

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# For we were young, and sure to have our way... #

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Shankly! Shankly! Shankly! Shankly!

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This is where Uncle Willie, Bill Shankly, was born.

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There were four houses in the front, and four houses behind.

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The ten children were born within 20 years,

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five boys and five girls.

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Bill Shankly was the last of the boys.

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There was no electricity.

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I think there could be running water, but there was no hot water.

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Very, very poor conditions.

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If you had a neighbour that needed something, and you had excess,

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which... There was never a lot of excess, but if you had something

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that the neighbour needed it desperately,

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you would give the neighbour, because you didn't ever know

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the next day that you might need something.

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Until the 1790s, miners were serfs in Scotland,

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but during the 19th century, they got themselves organised,

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and by the early 20th century, miners had replaced the old

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hand loom weavers in the past as the vanguard of the working class.

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So, a strong socialist tradition, strong self-help tradition,

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and also a strong tradition of self-improvement.

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So, within a mining community you'd have Burns Clubs,

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you'd have football clubs, you'd have all kinds of activities,

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and Burns was a living tradition with these people.

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It was a living tradition even when I was growing up in the 1950s.

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Well, in Shankly's day, even more so.

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They'd have been brought up with the ideal of egalitarianism -

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A Man's A Man for A' That.

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# Is there for honest poverty, that hangs his head and a' that... #

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It's amazing for me.

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It's my first time, so it's lovely.

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It's quite poignant, the fact that we're on a coach load of people,

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and going to meet more people that still do this.

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It's like he's more famous now

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than when he died all those years ago in '81.

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The banners rise on the Kop, and the voices call for Bill Shankly.

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And now the salute for the champions, and for Bill Shankly,

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who takes off his jacket to reveal a characteristic red shirt.

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This is the man they love.

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He was a big fan of Rabbie Burns. Mm-hm.

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Very big fan. But, of course, Rabbie Burns, he was a poor ploughman.

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Uncle Willie, as you know, went down the pit when he was 15,

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and he'd go down the pit, finish his shift,

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and then go and play football.

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It may not even be a ball, it could be a tin can,

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it could be anything that got kicked about.

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This was a photo of Glenbuck Cherrypickers.

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This is Grandpa Shankly, John Shankly.

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This is the Auchenstilloch cottages.

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This is the two houses that was knocked into one,

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where Uncle Willie was born.

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And, I mean, there could be 10-a-side, there could be 15-a-side,

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because that's all they had to do, and that's why

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there were 50 professional players came from Glenbuck.

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There was a strong football team,

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there was the strong loyalty of the coal mining industry,

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and they go hand in hand,

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and I think the football team really represented the community.

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I was born in the village of Glenbuck,

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who had a team, called the Glenbuck Cherrypickers.

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But they were at the end of their day when I...

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And I only played one game for them.

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Then they were finished for all time.

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Then I moved on to another junior team. I was only 17 years old.

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About ten miles from Glenbuck. So I started with them, really.

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A team called Cronberry.

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In its basics, in what is required to play football, it's quite simple,

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and, you know, we know from its origins that it was just

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a kind of mob activity originally, and you don't need to be

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a very special physical specimen to do it then.

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And it may be a small form of romance,

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but when somebody beats a man or scores a good goal,

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or makes a great tackle or something,

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there is undoubtedly, from the lowest levels of the game to the

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highest, a tremendous satisfaction and a sense of self-expression.

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When you think about it, you know, football was the one thing

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you could do, not to go down the pit in these days.

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And if you were going down the pit and you were in this very dark and

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claustrophobic and dangerous space, imagine the kind of liberation

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it must be to run around on a field, you know, to run around playing.

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So you've got those blue skies above,

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or even grey skies above, but you've got all this space around you.

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You're darting around this field,

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and then you have to go back down to this dark, enclosed space.

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So football must have been, not just a means to break out of that world,

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but it must have been an almost kind of spiritual,

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kind of existential release. You know, "We're human beings,

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"this is what we're supposed to be doing".

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One of the foundations of my affinity with Bill,

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and it was a very warm affinity over the years,

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was that we were fellow Ayrshiremen, and it's always struck me

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that three of the greatest managers who've worked in British football -

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Shankly, Busby and Stein - were all born within 20 miles

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of one another, and were from mining families.

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Their understanding of teamwork and of camaraderie

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was absolutely in the marrow.

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There was nothing else except mines.

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You were lucky if you got a job, you were lucky

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if you got a job in the mines, and I think, possibly,

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the fact that this was the case gave us a...

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Well, it built us to the fact that we had to try and better ourselves,

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to try and create something or do something.

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Bill had a number of brothers,

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and all five of them played professional football.

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Quite an astonishing feat in those days, for all five of them

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to go on and play professional football at some level or other.

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The game that developed in Scotland was a community game.

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Very, very different from what came out of the

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public schools in England. But what specifically happened was,

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they developed this short passing game and, because of that, it gave

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the Scots an advantage in football so the result of that was that,

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literally, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of boys from Scotland

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went down to England and became the core of the new professional game.

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You know, the English league was started by a Scot, the FA Cup

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was started by a Scot, but it all goes back to these wee communities.

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People like Shankly and Stein were steeped in that tradition

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going back literally hundreds of years.

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Above all, the main aim is that everybody can control the ball,

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and do the basic thing in football.

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It's control and pass, control and pass.

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So this is the whole of you. It's so simple.

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Get it, give an early pass, then it goes from me to somebody else,

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and it switches around.

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So it's all give and take, and give and back up.

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You need help, you get the backing.

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But these guys who were kind of fired by that sense of passion

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and teamwork, and forging common purpose,

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they were very much in the ascendancy with that

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industrialisation and that kind of industrial socialism,

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whereby everybody worked in the same team and played together.

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It came from that ethos, basically.

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The sense of being in it together was immensely powerful.

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There was a strength about it, you know, there was a feeling that

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there was never any doubt about their conviction,

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that they were as good as anybody on the planet,

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and they were prepared to let people know that.

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After a season with Cronberry Juniors,

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then I went to Carlisle as a professional player.

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Well, I went to Carlisle for one season, and at the end of

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that season, Preston North End had been watching me and fancied me,

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and they paid Carlisle £500 for my transfer.

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Well, obviously, this is it, this is Deepdale.

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You can see all the various stands - Sir Tom is behind us, Alan Kelly

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and that's mainly the kind of sponsors' stand,

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but, obviously, there's your man, there's Sir William Shankly.

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Or William Shankly.

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Well, my connection to Preston is, my dad played here

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so I was born about... less than a mile away.

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I think at the age of 12 or 13, I got my first season ticket,

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so it's always been my club, and always will be my club, obviously.

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Because when the transfer was going through, I wasn't going to go.

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Because I said to my brother, Alec,

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"I'm only getting ten shillings more and I'm further away from home".

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He said, "Well, it isn't what you're getting now,

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"it's the opportunity of playing for Preston North End".

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I mean, Preston was a working class town,

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and really had a working class team, but actually,

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when you think about it, it probably had a world-class team.

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A mighty burst of cheering announces the arrival of the King and Queen,

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and the King meets the players, shaking hands first with Preston,

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then with Huddersfield.

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I joined them actually in '36, and I would say

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they were one of the leading sides in those days,

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and always had a very heavy Scottish contingent.

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This was, I think, because it was always one of the sayings

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of the chairman that all the good players come from Scotland,

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of course not forgetting Bill Shankly.

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You mentioned Bill Shankly there. What was he like to play with?

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Oh, Bill was a real character, you know, he was the sort of chap

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that you could be losing the game 3-0, two minutes to go,

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and he would still have his sleeves rolled up,

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and telling you, "Come on, we can beat this team yet".

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The referee gave a penalty to Preston,

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and Mutch, who was the victim, took the kick.

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A goal in the last minute of the match.

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And being in a losing Cup Final,

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and going back the following season and having the winning Cup Final,

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when the final whistle blows at Wembley, and you've won the Cup,

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the elation's unbelievable.

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Oh, it was massive.

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Absolutely massive, because in those days,

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and it would have been the same for me when I was a kid playing in the

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back garden, but in those days you played football in the back garden,

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and scored a goal, it was always a winning goal in the Cup Final.

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It wasn't to win the Premier League,

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it was never to win the Champions League so, obviously,

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for Shanks and for a club like this, it was utopia.

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Remember 1938?

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The Yankees won the Pennant.

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"Wrong Way" Corrigan.

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The last trains ran on the 6th Avenue El.

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Well, John Britain got excited about the same sort of thing.

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The bet he had on the der-by, or, as he would say, the dar-by.

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His job, his kids, getting his exercise on his day off.

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Preston North End taking the football cup.

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Only 300 miles away, people were cheering another kind of event.

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Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil!

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I think it's absolutely true that the War cut short his career,

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certainly his international career,

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because football, official football, stopped.

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So, there's a good six, seven years which are wasted during the War

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when he's not really playing as a professional player.

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He's in the RAF.

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Because, when I went to Carlisle, which was my first job,

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I was 35 years of age,

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and I went there, and I knew that I was picking the team.

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I started a junior team then, they'd only one team,

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so I'd a reserve team, and I started another team.

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No, I went to Carlisle with the understanding that if I needed

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a player and they could get the money, then they would buy him.

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He started with Carlisle United, who were in the Third Division North.

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He then goes to Grimsby Town, and then he goes to Workington.

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And when he joins the club, he goes in on the first day,

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goes to switch the light on, and discovers there's no light switch.

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When he asks "Where's the lights here?",

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he's told "We don't have electricity, we've still got gas".

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And it's little surprise that he then moves on to Huddersfield Town.

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The manager of Huddersfield Town at the time

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is a man called Andy Beattie, and Andy Beattie had played with Bill

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at Preston North End, and he offered him the job as coach,

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and Shankly decides to take it,

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although he's been number one in various places.

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Mainly because Huddersfield Town are in the Second Division,

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and they have been a great football team.

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He was a character, as we all know.

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He was the assistant manager with Andy Beattie.

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He then left, and Bill Shankly became the manager.

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But they were like father figures in those days.

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Sounds strange at this time in the world,

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but then it was quite rough, quite tough as well so, if

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it hadn't been for those two guys, I'd have probably gone back home.

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Andy Beattie was a much more calmer guy, as Sir Matt Busby was.

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Shankly was completely different. It was just all go, all the time.

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He learnt me everything in the game of football.

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One day, we were due to play Cardiff City at Huddersfield,

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and the late T V Williams, who was chairman then,

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come down the steps at Huddersfield,

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and I was offered the managership of Liverpool.

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The Kop was famous, even then.

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So I came here because there was potential,

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and it was possible to make Anfield and Liverpool into a team.

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And I knew that there was people here dying to have a team.

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Here, in Liverpool, on Merseyside, we have this great melting pot

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of nations - the Irish, the Welsh, the Scotch,

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and the English, of course.

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We think this is the greatest city in the world, not only

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a great sea port, and certainly not the picture that some people

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have of Liverpool as a dingy, underprivileged slum.

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We've got a great deal to be proud of in Liverpool,

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and we ARE proud of it.

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Liverpool was founded in 1892, and this is where it was founded,

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and ever since, it's been associated with Liverpool Football Club.

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Me grandad used to live opposite the ground, really, you know,

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and me earliest childhood memories were coming up to the ground,

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because me dad used to go to the matches,

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and I'd come out onto this main road here and meet him.

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So, I was obsessed with the game of football from an early age,

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you know. I didn't think it was a unique city,

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I just thought everyone in the world was obsessed with football.

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For our family, where I was, in front of me house

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was a gravel pitch, if you like, and me brother's a couple of years

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older than me, and all his friends were always involved in footy.

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I basically wanted to latch on to them and play as much as I can.

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You know, for Christmas presents and birthday presents, I was often

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getting DVDs, Liverpool DVDs,

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of all the successful teams over the years.

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I'm lucky to have a huge football club on me doorstep,

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because I knew from an early age I wanted to be a footballer,

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and I knew which team I wanted to represent.

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Liverpool is football as a city.

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Every kid wants to play for Liverpool or Everton,

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and there's very few people who haven't got that passion for or

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support one of the sides, or get upset when it's not going well,

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or vice versa.

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Football will always be maybe the biggest thing in the city.

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My early memories of Liverpool Football Club go back a long way,

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because my father was a dyed in the wool Kopite, and Liverpool,

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all my life as far as I remember it, had been in the old Second Division,

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and that was where I was used to having them, and I get the feeling,

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looking back, that a lot of the powers that be at Anfield then

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were quite happy to be a big fish in a smaller pond.

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But this guy, Shankly, turned up from Huddersfield.

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His ambitions were far and above the Second Division.

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I go back even when we was in the First Division,

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before we got relegated in '54,

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and the place was a joke, a dump.

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And when he come, you know, I think it was the training ground,

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Melwood, he completely revamped that, like.

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It was the first time we'd seen anything getting done at Liverpool!

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Well, this is a picture of us winning the league,

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and there you've got Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan,

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Ron Yeats, Ian Callaghan.

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A great team, this was.

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There wasn't a lot of money around, but it was fantastic, really,

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just to be a footballer, so I really put a lot into it, you know.

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Running and kicking a ball, kicking a ball against the wall,

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trying this and that. Yeah. And it came off.

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You know, I told you I was already there when Shankly turned up,

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and Bob Paisley was there then, Joe Fagan was there then,

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Reuben Bennett was there then, and he kept them all on.

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And he says, "This team's going to go places,"

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and he didn't bring anybody with him,

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so I was very lucky, I think, to actually be there at that time.

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Well, before Bill Shankly came, I'd been at the club for...

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I think it was three or four months.

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I joined the ground staff from school in the summer,

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and he came in the October.

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I'd work at the ground during the day from, what,

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8:30 till 5:00, and then two nights a week,

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I'd go to training with the amateurs at Melwood.

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And Bill Shankly came, and the first day,

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I had a tea break, and he stopped me.

0:21:140:21:17

I was surprised he knew who I was, you know,

0:21:170:21:20

and he asked me what my routine was. I told him, you know,

0:21:200:21:25

and he said, "You're here to learn your trade son."

0:21:250:21:29

He said, "Tomorrow morning,

0:21:290:21:31

"tell your boss that you're coming training with the professionals".

0:21:310:21:36

You know, it was a big thing for me then.

0:21:360:21:39

Not for my boss at the ground staff,

0:21:390:21:41

but, you know, it was a big thing then.

0:21:410:21:44

Priority first and foremost was to get to know the people,

0:21:440:21:48

the people I was working with, the players I had on my books.

0:21:480:21:52

The ones who I thought were good enough, and weren't good enough.

0:21:520:21:55

I had to make a note of the whole affair,

0:21:550:21:59

so I was to get to know the whole thing and the whole place,

0:21:590:22:01

and to try and instil into the directors, of course, that the

0:22:010:22:06

potential at Liverpool was just as great as anywhere in the world.

0:22:060:22:10

Originally, before Shankly came, the training methods were, like,

0:22:110:22:17

run round the pitch for about two hours, you know, and then

0:22:170:22:21

we'll give you the ball, because you might be hungry for the ball then.

0:22:210:22:25

Always remember coming back from one summer,

0:22:280:22:32

and he'd had the carpenter from Anfield build all these boards,

0:22:320:22:39

you know, "sweat boxes," we used to call them.

0:22:390:22:42

I've never heard that mentioned either or seen it anywhere

0:22:420:22:45

in a training ground.

0:22:450:22:47

So you'd kick the ball, and didn't know where it was coming up,

0:22:470:22:50

and then see where it was coming and you had to hit it again.

0:22:500:22:53

And that was something completely different.

0:22:530:22:56

So you're on from there, he said "You've got to run to

0:22:560:22:59

"that board, hit the ball against the board, collect it, turn,

0:22:590:23:04

"and go to the other one, and keep on doing that as fast as you can".

0:23:040:23:08

He said, "Everything in the game's there, you're giving a pass,

0:23:080:23:11

"taking a pass, turning" and, you know you're getting rest

0:23:110:23:16

and getting fitness training as well,

0:23:160:23:19

so at the end of every game, you were still going strong.

0:23:190:23:22

You see, it's not how long you train,

0:23:230:23:26

it's how much you put into the training.

0:23:260:23:28

Well, the Liverpool training is really based on

0:23:280:23:30

exhaustion and recovery.

0:23:300:23:32

So you were working hard, twisting and turning and

0:23:320:23:34

twisting and turning, which the game's all about.

0:23:340:23:36

If you're fit, you've a tremendous advantage over everybody else.

0:23:360:23:40

Then if you, as Liverpool do, try to give everybody

0:23:400:23:44

a touch of the ball as quick as they can during the match...

0:23:440:23:47

Hunt hooks it, and it's a goal!

0:23:470:23:48

He was like one of you, one of me.

0:23:500:23:52

You know, he wasn't, "I'm a big guy," or anything like that.

0:23:520:23:58

He wanted to be with the players and the people, and he used to say

0:23:580:24:03

"I want this city to actually have this fantastic team,"

0:24:030:24:08

because he loved Liverpool.

0:24:080:24:11

He was so right in a lot of things,

0:24:110:24:14

and then the crowd - they adored him.

0:24:140:24:18

# The Liver Bird upon my chest

0:24:190:24:24

# We are men of Shankly's best

0:24:240:24:29

# A team that plays the Liverpool way

0:24:290:24:33

# And wins the league and a cup in May. #

0:24:330:24:38

-# The Liver Bird upon my chest

-(Upon my chest)

0:24:390:24:44

-# We are men of Shankly's best

-(Of Shankly's best)

0:24:440:24:50

# A team that plays the Liverpool way

0:24:500:24:54

# And wins the championship in May. #

0:24:540:24:58

Well, Liverpool were in the Second Division,

0:24:580:25:01

and very much the underdogs of the city.

0:25:010:25:04

People at school, the older kids at school,

0:25:040:25:06

their fathers would take them to the match.

0:25:060:25:09

Mostly to watch Everton,

0:25:090:25:10

because they were in the First Division in them days.

0:25:100:25:12

So I pestered and pestered and pestered me dad to take me,

0:25:120:25:16

and me dad wasn't interested in football, believe it or not,

0:25:160:25:18

he was a snooker man.

0:25:180:25:21

So, in the end, he took me.

0:25:210:25:23

It was the Lancashire Senior Cup, and a night match at Goodison.

0:25:230:25:27

So I didn't know who to support, as I had no guidance off me dad,

0:25:280:25:33

but outside he bought me a blue and white bobble hat.

0:25:330:25:36

So, anyway, Everton's floodlights, night game, they must have been

0:25:360:25:39

250 foot high, you could see them throughout the city, you know.

0:25:390:25:42

So when the lights come on,

0:25:420:25:44

it was absolutely dazzling on the football pitch.

0:25:440:25:48

So, Liverpool come out first, the red shirts.

0:25:480:25:50

As soon as I seen the red shirts, I went, "That's my team".

0:25:500:25:54

I just got hold of the blue and white bobble hat,

0:25:540:25:56

and threw it on the floor, and said "Dad, that's my team".

0:25:560:25:58

He said, "I've just bought you a blue and white bobble hat".

0:25:580:26:01

I said, "I don't care, that's my team,"

0:26:010:26:03

and from then on, I was Liverpool mad, all through me life.

0:26:030:26:07

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Epstein Theatre,

0:26:090:26:13

and our show When Shankly's Dream Came True.

0:26:130:26:16

Now, please welcome onstage your presenter, John Keith.

0:26:160:26:20

APPLAUSE

0:26:200:26:25

Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Shankly, in that wonderful way

0:26:250:26:29

he had of plain speaking, called it "a terrible disgrace".

0:26:290:26:33

He was referring to the fact that,

0:26:330:26:35

when he crossed the Pennines from Huddersfield, and blew into Anfield

0:26:350:26:38

like a whirlwind in December 1959, the club had never won the FA Cup.

0:26:380:26:43

-VOICEOVER:

-When Shankly arrived, he knew he had to find heroes

0:26:440:26:48

and he had Tommy Lawrence, the goalkeeper,

0:26:480:26:51

who'd been there a long time, and he brought him in eventually

0:26:510:26:55

as first choice goalkeeper, and then he went out and signed Ian St John

0:26:550:26:59

and Ron Yeats, to complete what Shankly called his "Spine Theory".

0:26:590:27:03

You've got to have strength right down the middle.

0:27:030:27:06

Well, Shankly left Huddersfield because he thought

0:27:060:27:09

they lacked ambition and they kept on selling their best players,

0:27:090:27:12

and he tried to get Ron Yeats and Ian St John at Huddersfield,

0:27:120:27:16

and the board had said, "We haven't got the money".

0:27:160:27:19

So when Liverpool came knocking,

0:27:190:27:21

one of the provisos was that Liverpool had money to spend.

0:27:210:27:25

When he started to try and buy players,

0:27:250:27:27

the board said, "Well, we haven't got the money",

0:27:270:27:31

so he felt as if he'd been duped slightly.

0:27:310:27:34

So after about 18 months, a man come onto the board, called Mr Sawyer.

0:27:340:27:39

He'd come from the Littlewoods organisation.

0:27:410:27:44

He was an ambitious man, big man in the mail order.

0:27:440:27:47

So, St John come onto the market. I went to the board meeting,

0:27:480:27:52

and I said that St John of Motherwell could be for sale.

0:27:520:27:56

And they were talking about the price,

0:27:560:27:58

and somebody says, "We can't afford to sign him,"

0:27:580:28:02

but Mr Sawyer said, "We can't afford NOT to sign him".

0:28:020:28:05

A question a lot of people ask me is about the St John chant,

0:28:070:28:11

which started with a record called Let's Go by The Routers,

0:28:110:28:15

because, like a lot of music in this city in the early '60s,

0:28:150:28:20

it came from America, in the suitcases of merchant seamen.

0:28:200:28:26

That was how the Merseybeat era got started,

0:28:260:28:28

by all the imported music.

0:28:280:28:31

You know the handclap, the...

0:28:310:28:32

RHYTHMIC CLAPPING

0:28:350:28:38

Let's go!

0:28:380:28:39

A spectacular header by St John puts Liverpool in front.

0:28:540:28:57

He was the beginning, he set the place on fire.

0:28:590:29:01

Well, I'd never met anybody quite like him, and I think if you asked

0:29:050:29:10

any of the players of our era, they would tell you the same thing.

0:29:100:29:14

I mean, he was overpowering, and he was football mad, football crazy.

0:29:140:29:20

And, his confidence in us coming down to English football,

0:29:200:29:26

and settling in and being a big part of it, was great,

0:29:260:29:31

because he made us believe.

0:29:310:29:33

Liverpool were looking for a centre half, and he come marching out,

0:29:340:29:38

looking up at me, and he said, "Bloody hell",

0:29:380:29:41

he said, "Big lad, you must be about seven foot tall".

0:29:410:29:45

I said "No, I'm six foot three".

0:29:450:29:47

He says "That's near enough seven foot for me, son".

0:29:470:29:50

And the thing about the players that played under him -

0:29:500:29:55

you learned from him in that it was about giving rather than taking,

0:29:550:30:00

you know, and money never came into it.

0:30:000:30:02

Yeah, he liked honest players.

0:30:050:30:09

I always remember, he asked me, talking about one particular

0:30:090:30:12

player, I said, "He might not have had the ability, but he was honest".

0:30:120:30:19

And he went "That's one of the main things in life, son, being honest".

0:30:190:30:25

Well, Ian, you and Ron Yeats and the boys there, you certainly

0:30:270:30:30

wasted little time in putting Liverpool back on the football map.

0:30:300:30:34

In your first season, Shankly's new side stormed to promotion

0:30:340:30:37

back to the top flight as Second Division champions.

0:30:370:30:40

Ian, you and Roger Hunt scored a total of 59 league goals...

0:30:400:30:43

Yeah, they made a big difference, those two.

0:30:430:30:47

They came off pretty quick, and of course, they were Scottish as well

0:30:470:30:52

and, you know, he was more friendly with the Scottish than the English.

0:30:520:30:57

But they were two really good players.

0:30:590:31:01

For most of Britain,

0:31:120:31:13

the Glorious 21st marks the start of the real shooting season.

0:31:130:31:16

Shooting for goals, and a jackpot on the pools.

0:31:160:31:19

Principal match of the day was between Liverpool and Arsenal,

0:31:190:31:21

and the league champions served notice that they were

0:31:210:31:24

out for blood this season, too.

0:31:240:31:25

Here they come, Liverpool first, then Arsenal.

0:31:250:31:28

Well, the boss always said... When he'd come to Anfield,

0:31:280:31:31

he said, "It's a disgrace that this team has never won the FA Cup".

0:31:310:31:36

Even for us in Scotland, everybody wanted to see the FA Cup Final,

0:31:370:31:41

it was the huge game, so when I came down here, Shanks was on about,

0:31:410:31:47

"We must win this cup for the fans".

0:31:470:31:50

MUSIC: Shankly's Dream

0:31:530:31:56

I was going from the year dot watching Liverpool,

0:31:560:31:59

but when you talked about the Cup Final, Evertonians, always the thing

0:31:590:32:04

that they always had over us, always, all the time,

0:32:040:32:07

"But you've never won the Cup, you've never won the Cup,"

0:32:070:32:10

and the well-known saying any time you got in any conversation was,

0:32:100:32:15

"The Liver Bird'll fly away before you win the Cup".

0:32:150:32:18

So, when we got to the final against a good team,

0:32:180:32:21

the whole city of Liverpool really wanted to get to that final.

0:32:210:32:26

Just... The build-up was unbelievable.

0:32:260:32:28

-CHANTING:

-Shankly! Shankly!

0:32:290:32:31

We get to '65, and we battle our way through to it,

0:32:310:32:34

and we're playing Leeds United, who were the next up-and-coming team.

0:32:340:32:39

Don Revie had got some great players there. Hard players.

0:32:390:32:43

The warriors in the War of the Roses -

0:32:460:32:48

the red rose of Lancashire, the white of Yorkshire.

0:32:480:32:51

It was going to be a bit of a game,

0:32:510:32:53

because they were great rivals as well,

0:32:530:32:56

because Revie was of the same sort of ilk as Shanks, you know.

0:32:560:33:00

I come from a big family, and we were all Reds, you know,

0:33:020:33:06

and they'd never won the FA Cup,

0:33:060:33:08

and getting tickets for that final was the hard thing for me.

0:33:080:33:14

Liverpool all in red...

0:33:140:33:15

I'll tell you a story - we went out at Wembley to win that Cup,

0:33:150:33:19

and I said, "Listen, if it takes us four weeks to win this Cup,

0:33:190:33:22

"we're going to win it" and, goodness gracious,

0:33:220:33:24

within ten minutes, Gerry Byrne had a broken collarbone.

0:33:240:33:27

And it was a heartbreaking thing, and we knew it.

0:33:270:33:30

Bob Paisley come up, he said, "The collarbone's gone".

0:33:300:33:33

I said, "Oh, no".

0:33:330:33:35

And terrible pain, they should have given him all the medals.

0:33:350:33:39

So we're playing up to half-time, go in, and the trainer, Bob Paisley,

0:33:390:33:45

gets his jersey off, has a look at it, gives it a little

0:33:450:33:49

spray with something. "It's only broken." And then we go out,

0:33:490:33:54

because there were no substitutes, we go out and play the second half.

0:33:540:33:59

And so for the first time since 1947,

0:33:590:34:02

the Cup Final went into extra time.

0:34:020:34:03

Roger scored, and then Billy Bremner scored a smashing goal,

0:34:050:34:13

and then I got the goal with a header from Ian Callaghan's cross.

0:34:130:34:19

St John made no mistake this time!

0:34:190:34:21

And that was it then, we were hanging on with nine minutes to go.

0:34:260:34:30

Nine minutes never dragged like that, but finally they did it,

0:34:310:34:35

and all the fans who'd lived their lives without ever winning the Cup

0:34:350:34:40

at Liverpool, get what they'd wanted all the time.

0:34:400:34:46

And, of course, the boss, to win it...

0:34:500:34:52

If he had never won another thing, that was it.

0:34:520:34:55

The euphoria in London after that. It was just... You couldn't...

0:34:570:35:01

You couldn't go through it again.

0:35:010:35:03

And then when that happened, everything seemed to change.

0:35:070:35:11

Only later on you realise what the team's done, you know,

0:35:150:35:20

like, coming back on

0:35:200:35:22

the Sunday seeing all the supporters when we got back to Liverpool.

0:35:220:35:26

You can sense the sheer vitality of these Liverpudlians

0:35:290:35:32

as they massed in uncountable numbers...

0:35:320:35:34

I've never seen so many people, you know,

0:35:340:35:36

they were hanging off buildings, lights and everything.

0:35:360:35:40

Even when The Beatles came back and did a tour, when they were

0:35:400:35:44

at the height of their fame, they didn't get as many people as we got.

0:35:440:35:47

Unbelievable.

0:35:470:35:49

Oh, yeah, the 1965 FA Cup win was the pinnacle really, because

0:35:510:35:57

Liverpool had tried for 73 years to win the FA Cup and never had done.

0:35:570:36:02

So, for this man to come along and take them to the Holy Grail,

0:36:020:36:06

which it then was, the FA Cup, was huge.

0:36:060:36:09

And even though they won the league each side of the FA Cup,

0:36:090:36:12

they had won the league before but they'd never won the FA Cup

0:36:120:36:15

and it really changed Shankly's persona in the eyes of the fans,

0:36:150:36:21

because this man was then the man who'd led them to the promised land.

0:36:210:36:25

Well, in all honesty, he had a Scottish accent but if he wasn't

0:36:270:36:31

a Scouser in another life - that's the best way I can sum him up.

0:36:310:36:35

Everything that we were or we think we are, that was Shankly.

0:36:350:36:39

And being a good socialist helps with me, like, you know what I mean?

0:36:390:36:43

He was actually part of the fans, should we say.

0:36:440:36:48

He wasn't in any way detached and he enjoyed the success with the fans.

0:36:480:36:54

More than anything else he just got everyone up for it.

0:36:540:36:57

They were really up for it, you know,

0:36:570:36:59

and everyone kind of bonded together and he was just one of the people.

0:36:590:37:03

He was just one of the people, but like a leader of the people, really.

0:37:030:37:06

Yeah, I mean, his link with the people,

0:37:080:37:10

with the fans was quite incredible.

0:37:100:37:12

His house in Bellefield Avenue,

0:37:120:37:14

he actually had the front garden paved over because

0:37:140:37:17

so many people knocked on his door and they'd always get invited in.

0:37:170:37:22

That's it there, I recognise it immediately.

0:37:230:37:26

This used to be grass, basically, but because of people coming

0:37:260:37:31

and knocking on the door all the time, it literally just wore

0:37:310:37:35

away so, at some point, my gran just asked him to sort it out.

0:37:350:37:40

People have got stories, so many stories about coming to

0:37:420:37:45

the door and him inviting them in or always being very welcoming.

0:37:450:37:49

You know, football without people, without people watching,

0:37:490:37:52

without supporters, is absolutely nothing.

0:37:520:37:56

I mean, there's no noise, there's no enthusiasm,

0:37:560:37:59

there's no shouting, there's no passion.

0:37:590:38:01

There's nothing.

0:38:010:38:02

So, for him, all of that, and being accessible to the people who

0:38:020:38:06

would come and watch faithfully, was kind of really, really important.

0:38:060:38:11

You know, that was where the joy, the passion came from.

0:38:110:38:14

There's simply no way nowadays of keeping this huge Merseyside

0:38:150:38:19

city out of the headlines.

0:38:190:38:20

So that's the memories that people have.

0:38:210:38:24

Not just the players but all the fans and then, of course, on

0:38:260:38:30

the Tuesday night we're here to play the semifinal of the European Cup.

0:38:300:38:34

# ..and the sweet silver song of a lark... #

0:38:370:38:40

At the age of 11, one of my abiding memories

0:38:420:38:47

was 1965.

0:38:470:38:50

We'd just become FA Cup winners for the first time

0:38:500:38:53

and we were playing the great Inter Milan at Anfield.

0:38:530:38:56

You couldn't get a ticket for love nor money.

0:38:560:38:59

How my mum did it, I don't know,

0:38:590:39:01

but she got three tickets and we were right on the front row.

0:39:010:39:06

# ..with hope in your hearts and you'll never walk alone... #

0:39:060:39:12

The gates had been closed by about 5.15,

0:39:120:39:15

so many people wanted to go to that game,

0:39:150:39:18

and we were all on the Kop and all the Kop was chanting "We want

0:39:180:39:22

to see the cup, we want to see the cup,"

0:39:220:39:24

and Shankly has this brainwave.

0:39:240:39:26

Gerry Byrne, with his arm in a sling, and Gordon Milne,

0:39:280:39:31

who missed the final because he was injured, parade the cup.

0:39:310:39:35

And it's one of the highlights of anybody's career

0:39:390:39:45

to see that and remember it.

0:39:450:39:48

I'm getting nostalgic about remembering it.

0:39:480:39:51

The lads went out to a packed house.

0:39:510:39:53

And we're playing against THE great team, Inter Milan,

0:39:580:40:01

who were probably the best team in Europe at that time.

0:40:010:40:03

Shanks had us believing this was our time, this was the team,

0:40:030:40:07

and it was just an absolute wonderful spectacle.

0:40:070:40:12

I scored in the fourth minute to start it off.

0:40:130:40:18

The crowd were absolutely... I've never heard a crowd like that.

0:40:180:40:25

Hunt. A goal. A great goal, a great goal by Hunt.

0:40:250:40:28

And I remember he done this celebration which he

0:40:280:40:31

jumped in the air and twirled in the air.

0:40:310:40:33

We were all doing it at school the following week,

0:40:330:40:35

it was something that hadn't been seen, a celebration like that,

0:40:350:40:38

and I remember it vividly.

0:40:380:40:41

..and that could put Liverpool in the final.

0:40:420:40:45

To beat that team with our team at the time, which was just

0:40:450:40:48

growing, was just incredible.

0:40:480:40:49

Had we beaten Milan over there, and got through,

0:40:510:40:54

we could have won the European Cup.

0:40:540:40:57

Shanks would have been the first manager to do that.

0:40:570:41:00

It would have been great for him and I think about that,

0:41:000:41:03

then I think "Did we let you down, boss?"

0:41:030:41:07

But that was out of our hands, really,

0:41:070:41:10

the Milan game in Milan, when we were cheated out of it.

0:41:100:41:14

The replay, Shankly was very angry

0:41:170:41:20

because there were a number of dubious goals.

0:41:200:41:22

The ball was kicked out of Tommy Lawrence's hand, there was

0:41:220:41:26

a free kick which was supposed to be indirect

0:41:260:41:29

but they scored directly from it and the referee had allowed it.

0:41:290:41:33

The referee was said to have been bribed.

0:41:330:41:35

Shanks was told, "You'll not win this game over there.

0:41:360:41:40

"You'll not win this game with this referee," and it was a fact,

0:41:400:41:45

without a doubt, he had been got at.

0:41:450:41:48

We were very disappointed about that

0:41:500:41:53

because we thought we were going to win it, you know.

0:41:530:41:58

But we got beat and you can't take it back, but, yeah, I think

0:42:000:42:05

we got a raw deal.

0:42:050:42:06

But the boss went on and we were still picking up trophies.

0:42:080:42:14

It got to the stage where it was a team, you know.

0:42:150:42:19

Everybody was aware of what was going on.

0:42:190:42:21

The players were brought up not to worry, not you to worry

0:42:210:42:25

as an individual too much because we wouldn't expect you just yourself

0:42:250:42:30

to win the game.

0:42:300:42:31

We want not only to share the ball,

0:42:310:42:33

share the game, but to share the worries and all.

0:42:330:42:35

BAGPIPES PLAY

0:42:350:42:37

You know, obviously, we've come to Glenbuck.

0:42:530:42:56

For me, it's a very emotional occasion. Shankly's spiritual home.

0:42:560:43:02

I think it's a testimony to what he meant to people,

0:43:020:43:06

so many people here and people made the effort to come here.

0:43:060:43:09

You know, we came here for the 50th anniversary of the Cup Final and I

0:43:090:43:13

was probably too young to appreciate it but I remember my dad was

0:43:130:43:18

at the match, I remember him coming home from Wembley, and my grandad,

0:43:180:43:22

who first took me to the match and lived in Granton Road opposite the

0:43:220:43:27

Kop, when he found out they'd won the cup my grandad burst into tears

0:43:270:43:30

and I think that was the reaction for a lot of people in Liverpool.

0:43:300:43:34

Bill Shankly said it was his proudest moment.

0:43:340:43:38

When you get to Glenbuck, you know, there's an eerie silence there,

0:43:380:43:42

but you think this is his village and this is what chiselled him

0:43:420:43:47

into the man he was.

0:43:470:43:49

He was infallible, you know, to us.

0:43:490:43:51

Looking back on it now, obviously he was a human being

0:43:520:43:55

but we elevate it to something else.

0:43:550:43:57

This is not just football, this is more than that.

0:43:590:44:02

Bill Shankly died 30-odd years ago

0:44:020:44:04

and his spirit lives on, and when we started the Spirit Of Shankly that

0:44:040:44:09

was the idea behind that, because we wanted to keep his ideology alive.

0:44:090:44:14

Years of disconnect now between Liverpool Football Club

0:44:200:44:24

and the local community

0:44:240:44:25

because, basically, you can't afford to go any more, you know.

0:44:250:44:28

Our sport is football, as working class people, and I'm not

0:44:280:44:30

ashamed to say I'm working class, I'm quite proud of that.

0:44:300:44:33

Now, obviously it's been taken out of our hands at the moment

0:44:330:44:36

by greedy people, basically, who've got involved in football

0:44:360:44:39

because of the money that's involved.

0:44:390:44:41

When Shankly came,

0:44:430:44:44

the clubs on Merseyside were still rooted in the community.

0:44:440:44:48

Obviously now it's a global brand,

0:44:480:44:50

but I think Shankly would be shaking his head saying, you know,

0:44:500:44:56

you should keep those links with the community otherwise you've

0:44:560:44:58

lost your soul.

0:44:580:45:00

I think it's probably kicked in since '92, as well,

0:45:010:45:03

when the Premier League was formed.

0:45:030:45:05

Obviously the huge swathes of money that have come into the game now

0:45:050:45:08

have made the clubs conglomerate businesses, basically.

0:45:080:45:11

Luckily enough, there's enough of us still around to try and make it

0:45:110:45:13

better for future generations but we need to get the clubs back to being

0:45:130:45:18

community-based, I think, and that's why we're doing the protest at the

0:45:180:45:21

moment, you know, we're trying to get it back to somewhere like that.

0:45:210:45:24

It's going to be a hard slog.

0:45:240:45:25

No, I agree with you, but I think that the game moves on,

0:45:280:45:30

it does change.

0:45:300:45:32

I'm not sure how Bill Shankly would find it today,

0:45:320:45:35

he'd probably be a bit wound up with how it works now

0:45:350:45:38

but we all do talk about the corporate side of football and

0:45:380:45:41

the business side of it, it's run like a business,

0:45:410:45:44

and I think sometimes

0:45:440:45:45

that is lost, that at the end of the day it's a game of football.

0:45:450:45:48

Ticket prices now is a big thing, the way we treat supporters.

0:45:480:45:51

It feels like a lot of the time it's any which way you can to extract

0:45:510:45:56

more money from supporters - kits, season tickets,

0:45:560:45:59

tickets for away games, travel, whatever it may be,

0:45:590:46:03

it feels like it's a constant sort of charge on the man

0:46:030:46:05

on the street, who, without them, what would football be?

0:46:050:46:09

I mean, football is about being with your friends, having a laugh,

0:46:100:46:14

going to the match, and it's sort of something you build up over

0:46:140:46:17

the years and you take your children then and it's kind of important.

0:46:170:46:21

It keeps the communities together, and if they are just

0:46:210:46:25

treated as customers then that's definitely not what my grandad was

0:46:250:46:30

about and that's not what he wanted Liverpool Football Club to be about.

0:46:300:46:34

Being in Liverpool in the 1960s was the greatest place on earth.

0:46:390:46:44

We had the football, whether you were red or whether you were blue,

0:46:440:46:48

we had the two best football teams in the country,

0:46:480:46:51

and we had the music.

0:46:510:46:52

You felt like the spotlight of the world was on Liverpool.

0:46:520:46:56

It was a marvellous place to be, yeah, it was.

0:47:010:47:04

# Our day will come

0:47:080:47:10

# And we'll have everything

0:47:120:47:16

# We'll share the joy... #

0:47:180:47:20

I think I was lucky, lucky to be there at the right time, you know.

0:47:200:47:26

I was very lucky.

0:47:260:47:27

It was a great time to be a Scouser.

0:47:290:47:31

You know, it was incredible,

0:47:330:47:36

28,000 on the Kop singing The Beatles' songs, taking

0:47:360:47:41

Gerry And The Pacemakers' You'll Never Walk Alone as their anthem.

0:47:410:47:44

It was astonishing.

0:47:460:47:47

Saturday's weather perfect for an historic Scouse occasion.

0:47:490:47:51

They would be the champions of England

0:47:510:47:53

and they wanted their own people to see them become so.

0:47:530:47:56

They care so much about football.

0:47:560:47:59

# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah... #

0:48:010:48:04

When you seen the Kop in full flow,

0:48:040:48:06

and you were in there as part of that flow, you could

0:48:060:48:10

feel that energy, and I think

0:48:100:48:13

one of the best comments you can

0:48:130:48:16

make about Bill Shankly is that he was able to bring that energy out

0:48:160:48:20

and transform it into his team and onto the terraces and everybody

0:48:200:48:26

wanted to be part of the Shankly revolution, and I was no different.

0:48:260:48:31

Natural enthusiasm, that's the whole thing.

0:48:320:48:34

It's the greatest thing in the world, natural enthusiasm.

0:48:340:48:37

You're nothing without it.

0:48:370:48:40

I used to dream about playing for Liverpool, every night.

0:48:400:48:45

It was a dream I never ever thought would come true

0:48:450:48:47

because there was only a handful of black players playing

0:48:470:48:51

professional football and I remember,

0:48:510:48:54

through the school holidays, we used to always go to Melwood

0:48:540:48:59

and climb on the walls to watch Liverpool train, and he'd come out.

0:48:590:49:03

He'd come out onto the road.

0:49:030:49:05

"How come you lot aren't in school?"

0:49:050:49:08

And he'd say to us in that dulcet Scottish accent,

0:49:080:49:11

"Make sure you get your education, you need your education

0:49:110:49:14

"if you want to play for Liverpool."

0:49:140:49:16

And this was like this is your invitation,

0:49:160:49:18

if you want to play for Liverpool, but you need your education.

0:49:180:49:22

Unbelievable. Unbelievable that a man of that stature and he come out.

0:49:220:49:26

He was very intense, you know, about football.

0:49:260:49:29

He loved the supporters and he didn't like us letting them down.

0:49:290:49:35

If we got beat or whatever, he took it personally.

0:49:350:49:39

And he spoke and the whole city just shut up and listened

0:49:410:49:46

and he spoke to their hearts and they understood what

0:49:460:49:50

he was talking about and they really did idolise the guy.

0:49:500:49:53

It was just an amazing experience and that was just an offshoot of,

0:49:540:49:58

he's still a football manager,

0:49:580:50:01

and at the time he could have done anything.

0:50:010:50:04

In our language there's words that are similarity, you know,

0:50:040:50:07

they're spelt differently but they mean the same thing.

0:50:070:50:10

And there's words that mean the same thing

0:50:100:50:13

but the big men use these words, knowing full well that maybe

0:50:130:50:17

10% of the viewers will understand what he means.

0:50:170:50:21

Well, we don't. We speak the language that everybody understands.

0:50:210:50:26

Instead of me saying someone was avaricious,

0:50:260:50:29

I would say he was bloody greedy.

0:50:290:50:31

I mean, his bark was worse than his bite.

0:50:330:50:38

He was a bit soft underneath.

0:50:380:50:40

It's hard, if you try to get rid of somebody, it's not easy, is it?

0:50:430:50:49

You know, like Shankly in my situation,

0:50:500:50:54

because I had a great time there, and I owed a lot to him,

0:50:540:51:00

and it was difficult for him to let me go.

0:51:000:51:03

Bob Paisley said that one of the things he observed about

0:51:040:51:08

Bill Shankly was his loyalty to players

0:51:080:51:10

and he said, "You can be too loyal."

0:51:100:51:11

He was in a place just down the corridor and Bob Paisley said,

0:51:130:51:20

"The boss wants to see you."

0:51:200:51:23

So, you're walking down thinking, "What does the boss want?"

0:51:230:51:28

And then, when he started talking, his first thing was,

0:51:280:51:34

"How do you think you're playing?"

0:51:340:51:37

And I said, "I think I'm playing well," you know,

0:51:370:51:42

because I wasn't playing all that well.

0:51:420:51:44

"Hmmm." Didn't know what to say. He said, "Oh.

0:51:440:51:49

"The directors don't think you're playing well."

0:51:490:51:53

I said, "Well, how long is it

0:51:530:51:55

"since you've started taking notice of directors?"

0:51:550:51:58

And he said, "You're bloody right, son!

0:51:580:52:02

"You go and get changed."

0:52:020:52:05

But that was the beginning, you know, he'd warned me there.

0:52:050:52:09

He had this great affiliation with the players who'd done him

0:52:100:52:16

proud throughout the mid-'60s,

0:52:160:52:18

who'd done all these great things, bringing the first FA Cup.

0:52:180:52:22

So to have to change that must have hurt him a lot

0:52:220:52:26

but he knew that he had to do it because they'd all come to a point.

0:52:260:52:30

It was as though it was like a brick wall - bam,

0:52:300:52:32

hit it, I have to do this and this is going to hurt me.

0:52:320:52:36

Some of the great players all started to move on and I was,

0:52:360:52:42

if you want, at the hub of it

0:52:420:52:43

because I'd just signed in '69 as an apprentice, so you were seeing this

0:52:430:52:48

team evolve now with these younger players being given a chance.

0:52:480:52:53

So it was like a new spark again and it was, again,

0:52:530:52:57

a great place to be and to be part of it

0:52:570:52:59

and I was on the inside witnessing what was going on.

0:52:590:53:03

CROWD: Toshack! Toshack!

0:53:030:53:06

At that time, I was £110,000,

0:53:070:53:10

it was a record signing.

0:53:100:53:12

Doesn't seem like it now, I mean they earn more than that a day now.

0:53:120:53:16

Fortunately, as I'd done with Cardiff, I scored in front

0:53:160:53:22

of the Kop, my first game against Everton.

0:53:220:53:25

A game that we won 3-2 after being 2-0 down at half time,

0:53:250:53:29

so that got me off on the right foot, you know, with the Kopites

0:53:290:53:32

and with Shanks and, as I mentioned to you earlier, we were all young

0:53:320:53:36

lads who came from lower divisions and he just pieced us together.

0:53:360:53:40

Didn't work or tell us about our bad points,

0:53:400:53:44

just pushed forward our good points and put us

0:53:440:53:48

into areas of the field where we would be able to perform and gel

0:53:480:53:53

together as a team, and coached us and trained us so that we were fit.

0:53:530:53:58

If you want to fix your taps, you send for a plumber,

0:53:590:54:02

if you want to fix your electrics, you send for an electrician.

0:54:020:54:05

We had specialist places for these players.

0:54:050:54:07

We didn't complicate them, we gave them something that was,

0:54:070:54:10

basically, easy to understand.

0:54:100:54:13

And this is what football's all about, it's really a simple game.

0:54:130:54:17

CROWD: Kevin Keegan! Kevin Keegan!

0:54:200:54:23

Would you welcome the chance to move on to another club?

0:54:230:54:26

It depends what sort of club, really.

0:54:260:54:28

I remember my manager, Ron Ashman, at Scunthorpe, picking me

0:54:320:54:35

up in his car.

0:54:350:54:37

I had a new suit that I'd bought and obviously I knew a little bit about

0:54:370:54:41

him because Liverpool were starting to get a big club, and he was...

0:54:410:54:46

But I didn't really know him,

0:54:460:54:47

and he was fantastic from the minute I met him, you know.

0:54:470:54:51

He just came out and said "Son, welcome to Liverpool,

0:54:510:54:54

"the best club in England, maybe the world."

0:54:540:54:58

I can remember him saying that.

0:54:580:54:59

He was saying, "We get 26,000 people

0:54:590:55:01

"standing behind that goal, son."

0:55:010:55:03

I was playing in front of 3,000 people in the whole stadium

0:55:030:55:07

but, to be honest with you, I was such a small signing in

0:55:070:55:11

the scheme of things that it just went

0:55:110:55:13

right under the radar, you know.

0:55:130:55:15

I wasn't supposed to be a player for the time present,

0:55:150:55:19

I was one for the future, maybe.

0:55:190:55:21

Well, I found out about Kevin Keegan from Andrew Beattie,

0:55:210:55:25

who used to be manager at Huddersfield Town

0:55:250:55:29

and Peter Doherty, who was scouting then for Preston North End,

0:55:290:55:32

was on about him too and I thought, "Christ, they can't both be wrong".

0:55:320:55:35

He was first in everything.

0:55:350:55:37

Oh, he was a fantastic little fella and I've never seen such enthusiasm.

0:55:370:55:42

You could tell right from the start he was out to prove a point.

0:55:420:55:45

You know, from his humble background, hard brought up, father

0:55:450:55:49

a miner and all that, and this was the kind of background

0:55:490:55:53

I had an' all.

0:55:530:55:54

So Keegan, right from the start, didn't want to lose, was a winner.

0:55:550:56:01

He's one of the great signings anyone's ever made, I think,

0:56:010:56:04

Kevin Keegan.

0:56:040:56:06

Originally, strangely enough,

0:56:060:56:07

he was going to replace Ian Callaghan in midfield.

0:56:070:56:11

That's how they saw Kevin and it was a sheer accident that, just before

0:56:110:56:16

the start of the '71/'72 season, they had a practice match and they

0:56:160:56:22

put Kevin up front alongside John Toshack and it was a revelation.

0:56:220:56:26

Keegan, Shankly did have this father and son relationship.

0:56:280:56:33

I was in the reserve team in pre-season

0:56:330:56:35

when Kevin had first come, and I remember playing at Southport

0:56:350:56:40

and Ronnie Moran was the reserve team manager.

0:56:400:56:43

And he's gone like that. The game was 0-0 at half time,

0:56:440:56:48

Keegan's come in, he's only just joined the club - long hair,

0:56:480:56:51

which was, like, forbidden, and we were all like that

0:56:510:56:54

"Oh, Reuben Bennett will tell you you've got to get your hair cut."

0:56:540:56:57

He says, "Nobody tells me to get my hair cut,

0:56:570:56:59

"I decide," and I was like... And he did, he kept to that.

0:56:590:57:03

And we played and, at half time,

0:57:030:57:05

Ronnie Moran was, like, we never looked like scoring.

0:57:050:57:08

So Keegan comes in, he goes, "We're never going to score a goal,

0:57:080:57:11

"never going to score a goal".

0:57:110:57:12

Kevin was more of an attacking midfield player and he said

0:57:120:57:15

"Oh, do you think you can do better?"

0:57:150:57:17

And he said, "Yeah, I can," and we were all like that, "Wow."

0:57:170:57:19

And he said, "Right, you're playing up front."

0:57:190:57:22

Played up front, was different class. We won 2-0.

0:57:220:57:25

Before the season started we had a First Team vs Reserves game

0:57:270:57:32

and normally the Reserves beat the First Team, that was the way

0:57:320:57:35

it was, because everybody was more pumped up.

0:57:350:57:37

Keegan played in the First Team,

0:57:370:57:39

the First Team battered the Reserves.

0:57:390:57:41

He was in the team on the Saturday for the opening game of the season.

0:57:410:57:45

The first game, I'm not in the programme,

0:57:460:57:49

I had a struggle getting to the ground because the guy who

0:57:490:57:51

had the yellow jacket on, when I said, "I'm playing," he sort

0:57:510:57:54

of said to me, "Yeah, so am I, son," you know, and he turned me round.

0:57:540:57:59

So, I wasn't on the radar, so, for me, I can remember he just

0:57:590:58:04

said to me, "Just go out and drop hand grenades all over the place."

0:58:040:58:07

That was my pre-match instruction.

0:58:070:58:09

"Just go out there, son, and drop hand grenades all over the place."

0:58:090:58:13

In other words, just go wherever you want where you think you can

0:58:130:58:15

cause a problem and cause a problem then go somewhere else.

0:58:150:58:19

And, you know, I knew what he meant.

0:58:190:58:21

And the rest is history. He scored and became an icon.

0:58:210:58:26

Collective play, and playing as a team -

0:58:270:58:31

would that stifle individuals?

0:58:310:58:33

Now, the answer to this is that all the team of the '60s, all of them

0:58:330:58:37

were capped, played for their countries, by playing collectively.

0:58:370:58:41

All the 1970s team, all got capped,

0:58:430:58:47

again, by playing collectively.

0:58:470:58:49

So that was two teams, the '60s and the '70s team, ALL got

0:58:500:58:53

international caps by playing for each other.

0:58:530:58:56

You know, he created a real sense of "It's all about the team"

0:58:570:59:02

but the team went way beyond the 11 players on the football pitch.

0:59:020:59:06

He knew the name of everybody at the club, the tea lady,

0:59:060:59:09

the lady who cleaned the dressing rooms,

0:59:090:59:12

the guys as you came in, you know, he knew them all by first name.

0:59:120:59:16

He was very impressive as a person but in a very simple way.

0:59:170:59:21

He wasn't doing it to impress anybody, it was just the way he was.

0:59:210:59:25

Every sentence, every thought, everything was about football

0:59:270:59:30

and yet he had such a warm character as well and he was

0:59:300:59:34

interested in people and he made an effort to approach people and

0:59:340:59:39

a willingness to speak to people

0:59:390:59:43

about the things that mattered to them.

0:59:430:59:46

He used to mesmerize everyone, you know,

0:59:480:59:50

with his speeches after the game.

0:59:500:59:52

If we got beat, we might have been hammered, but he'd turn it round

0:59:520:59:56

to say, "We were very, very unlucky,"

0:59:560:59:58

and have everyone believing him.

0:59:581:00:00

So, after winning the FA Cup in '65,

1:00:001:00:04

the next time was 1971, obviously, and we got beat but he gave us

1:00:041:00:10

the greatest speech I have ever heard in my life

1:00:101:00:13

at St George's Hall.

1:00:131:00:15

I remember seeing it - I put it on sometimes now,

1:00:171:00:19

it's a great speech - and you think

1:00:191:00:21

"Yeah, this guy, he's more than a football manager."

1:00:211:00:25

I've drummed it into our players

1:00:251:00:29

time and again that they are privileged to play for you.

1:00:291:00:36

And if they didn't believe me, they believe me now.

1:00:381:00:43

Merseyside is very community-based.

1:00:431:00:47

You knock us, we come back harder,

1:00:471:00:49

we fight, and this guy tapped into that.

1:00:491:00:52

He'd had that, he'd had a difficult upbringing,

1:00:521:00:54

and he realised the difficulties of what these people go through

1:00:541:00:58

every week and he wanted to give them a team to be proud of.

1:00:581:01:01

He did a lot more than that.

1:01:011:01:03

Well, by the '60s, they'd won the FA Cup,

1:01:031:01:07

they'd won the league title a couple of times

1:01:071:01:10

and then in 1973. they win the league again...

1:01:101:01:15

-COMMENTATOR:

-It's difficult to say who admires who most there.

1:01:181:01:21

..And they also win the UEFA Cup,

1:01:231:01:25

thanks mainly to a wonderful display by young Kevin Keegan.

1:01:251:01:29

Toshack... Keegan. 2-0!

1:01:291:01:33

This was the real start of the '70s, of the new era,

1:01:331:01:37

if you like, and they'd had a little bit of a barren patch, really,

1:01:371:01:41

and the Cup Final where they got beat,

1:01:411:01:44

but it was, he knew they were coming back.

1:01:441:01:47

You know, Emlyn Hughes,

1:01:471:01:49

they had people like Steve Heighway getting into the team now.

1:01:491:01:53

Why do you think that Liverpool has such fanatical fans?

1:01:531:01:56

Why do they follow the team so closely?

1:01:561:01:57

Well, I believe it's because they identify with the manager.

1:01:571:02:00

The character of the manager goes through to the players

1:02:001:02:03

and it goes through to the fans as well.

1:02:031:02:05

There'd been a lot of replacements in the side

1:02:051:02:08

and he knew this side was just starting again.

1:02:081:02:11

It was like his second wave.

1:02:111:02:13

# We're gonna win the cup We're gonna win the league

1:02:131:02:16

# And now you're gonna believe us And now you're gonna believe us... #

1:02:161:02:21

As I said before, I was 20 years of age and I'm playing at Wembley.

1:02:211:02:27

The old Wembley Stadium, 100,000 people.

1:02:271:02:30

Shanks had us believing, "These are not going to get a kick.

1:02:301:02:34

"Youse are going to dominate this game.

1:02:341:02:36

"We are the best team here and we're going to win."

1:02:361:02:39

And now the whole of Wembley is tense and ready to greet

1:02:391:02:44

the two teams who've fought their way to this 1974 Cup Final.

1:02:441:02:48

And now they see them.

1:02:481:02:50

But we were unbelievable.

1:02:501:02:51

We played the Liverpool way that day,

1:02:511:02:53

we kept possession of the ball, with progression.

1:02:531:02:56

And Newcastle at the moment looking just a little disorganized.

1:02:571:03:01

Here's Hall, and now a chance for Keegan! And that's it!

1:03:011:03:04

Kevin Keegan has scored for Liverpool.

1:03:041:03:06

Being a young lad, 20 years of age, winning the FA Cup with

1:03:061:03:10

Liverpool, I just thought was beyond my wildest dreams.

1:03:101:03:13

Here we are, boys, that's what it's all about.

1:03:161:03:19

Yeah, we got them done, yeah.

1:03:191:03:21

And I got a league title medal in '72, '73 got a UEFA Cup medal.

1:03:211:03:27

But that FA Cup was just...

1:03:281:03:30

And then the bombshell.

1:03:301:03:32

It is with great regret that Mr Shankly has intimated that he

1:03:331:03:38

wishes to retire from active participation in league football.

1:03:381:03:42

It was a big, big surprise to all of us when he left.

1:03:421:03:46

We certainly didn't see that one coming.

1:03:461:03:49

I think there comes a time when you're a little tired,

1:03:491:03:53

a little fed up, if that's the word,

1:03:531:03:57

that you feel as if,

1:03:571:03:59

"Goodness gracious, why should I carry on?"

1:03:591:04:02

I remember someone, one of the players saying to me,

1:04:021:04:07

"Shanks has finished."

1:04:071:04:08

I said, "What do you mean, he's finished?"

1:04:081:04:10

"He's finished, he's resigned."

1:04:101:04:12

I thought, "No.

1:04:121:04:16

"No, that can't be right," but, you know,

1:04:161:04:19

he used to do it pretty regularly at the end of the season,

1:04:191:04:22

he'd go to the board

1:04:221:04:23

and say, "Look, I've had enough now," and they always used to talk

1:04:231:04:27

him round and I think they thought they could that year, '74, and

1:04:271:04:31

he just said, "No, I'm finished,"

1:04:311:04:33

and it was incredible around the place.

1:04:331:04:36

It was like he'd died.

1:04:361:04:38

It was like the club had half died as well.

1:04:381:04:40

Because he used to go around saying, "The word retirement should be

1:04:401:04:43

"stricken from the dictionary," and yet there he was and retired.

1:04:431:04:47

It was a contradiction in everything he'd said.

1:04:471:04:50

-How do you feel about the news today?

-What news?

1:04:501:04:52

That Shankly's retired.

1:04:521:04:54

Oh, yeah!

1:04:541:04:56

-Retired? Are you being funny?

-Yeah.

-Kidding you up.

1:04:561:04:58

I'm not kidding you, Shankly has actually retired today,

1:04:581:05:03

he wants a rest.

1:05:031:05:04

He's leaving.

1:05:041:05:05

They didn't believe it because we had no warning.

1:05:051:05:09

You're having me on, aren't you?

1:05:091:05:11

No, I'm not having you on, I've just been to Anfield...

1:05:111:05:14

I was with a mate of mine from school who was actually

1:05:141:05:17

about six foot odd and I was about three foot two, and you just

1:05:171:05:20

see Sid's shoulder on the thing, you know, but then it just went viral.

1:05:201:05:26

Everyone all over, by the time you got home from town and everything,

1:05:261:05:30

everyone had seen it and that was the end of that one, you know.

1:05:301:05:34

That followed you for the rest of your life, that one.

1:05:341:05:37

And this young lad in this interview captured the feelings,

1:05:371:05:42

I think, of everybody.

1:05:421:05:44

"What? We've just won the FA Cup, Liverpool, and Shanks has retired?"

1:05:441:05:52

What do you think's going to happen to the club now?

1:05:521:05:54

They'll go on but it just won't be the same without them.

1:05:541:05:58

How do you feel then, sad?

1:05:581:05:59

Terrible.

1:06:001:06:02

That became for us Liverpool fans

1:06:021:06:05

an iconic moment,

1:06:051:06:08

of just Tony Wilson

1:06:081:06:10

explaining to the fans that he'd resigned.

1:06:101:06:13

You know, you just wondered where it would all go without him

1:06:151:06:18

because he was so central to everything that was going on

1:06:181:06:22

and everyone adored him so much that you just wondered what was next.

1:06:221:06:28

I think Shanks, in the following years,

1:06:301:06:34

had realised it was probably the biggest mistake

1:06:341:06:36

of his life because I don't actually think he was ready for retirement.

1:06:361:06:41

I think he had a lot more to give, a lot more to offer,

1:06:411:06:44

and I think it damaged him.

1:06:441:06:46

All the things he'd drummed into us

1:06:481:06:50

were getting passed on to the lads in the '70s team, and they were

1:06:501:06:55

up for it and they were going to win trophies and they did win trophies.

1:06:551:07:00

But the boss was then side-lined. He side-lined himself.

1:07:001:07:04

Sometimes I feel that I did make the wrong decision but,

1:07:071:07:13

having made it, I will myself not to say nothing.

1:07:131:07:16

What are the occasions that you feel that, that it

1:07:161:07:19

was the wrong decision?

1:07:191:07:20

When are those times?

1:07:201:07:21

Oh, they come at various times.

1:07:211:07:24

It may be Saturday morning, there's a match on and you,

1:07:241:07:30

if you're manager, you're involved, you're alive and alight

1:07:301:07:33

and you're all, you know, it's something, you know, the big match.

1:07:331:07:38

A feeling you can't really describe to people.

1:07:381:07:40

He was a king without a kingdom once he'd retired, and the added layered

1:07:401:07:45

problem was that Liverpool had said, "Look, Bill," - they went on bended

1:07:451:07:49

knee to try and keep him - but they said, "If you retire, it's got to

1:07:491:07:52

"be a clean break because you're such

1:07:521:07:54

"a powerful figure at this club."

1:07:541:07:56

Like Matt Busby was at Manchester United and sort of dwarfed

1:07:561:07:59

managers that followed Matt. They said,

1:07:591:08:02

"If you go, it's got to be a clean break."

1:08:021:08:05

This is a very, very sensitive subject

1:08:061:08:10

and a most difficult one, and it was for us players at the time.

1:08:101:08:14

Shanks made this decision to walk away but, when we got down there

1:08:151:08:22

the first day of pre-season, who's the first voice to greet you?

1:08:221:08:27

Bill Shankly.

1:08:271:08:28

And we'd all walk in, and what would our - which you would expect,

1:08:281:08:32

"Morning Boss. Morning Boss."

1:08:321:08:34

Everybody's walking past, "Morning Boss".

1:08:341:08:36

So, of course, Bob Paisley's got to come into that scenario

1:08:361:08:40

day after day, so, as much I'd loved Shanks, I think

1:08:401:08:47

Bob Paisley was put in an extremely difficult position.

1:08:471:08:50

Probably could have been handled a bit better.

1:08:501:08:53

How, I don't know,

1:08:541:08:56

but it started to create this bad feeling between the club and Shanks.

1:08:561:09:02

Particularly that first year, because Bob didn't win anything,

1:09:021:09:05

we didn't win anything that first year, so it was a most

1:09:051:09:09

difficult time for him, but Shanks had laid those foundations.

1:09:091:09:14

And it seems to me that it got to the stage where he didn't know

1:09:161:09:23

whether he was welcome or not back and that was very, very sad.

1:09:231:09:27

It was badly handled, is the answer to your question.

1:09:271:09:29

What the answer to it was, with a character like Bill Shankly,

1:09:291:09:32

with a personality like Bill Shankly, you know, the boss,

1:09:321:09:36

he wouldn't have accepted charity, but they should have given him

1:09:361:09:42

some position at that club forever, you know, and they didn't.

1:09:421:09:46

I've never understood it and I never will.

1:09:461:09:49

I remember one day Shanks turned up at Melwood and pulled me to one

1:09:511:09:57

side, then he said to me, "Don't be dribbling the ball up to defenders,

1:09:571:10:01

"just knock it past them because they're not going to catch you."

1:10:011:10:04

Needless to say again, I tried it on the Saturday and scored a hat-trick.

1:10:041:10:09

And the next time I seen him again, and I think it was the last

1:10:091:10:14

time we seen him at Melwood, and I just said to him, "Thank you very

1:10:141:10:18

"much for that advice, Mr Shankly, because it worked well for me."

1:10:181:10:23

He says, "Aye, son, I know a little bit about football."

1:10:231:10:27

And that was it.

1:10:271:10:28

Maybe he thought he could still be involved in some way

1:10:311:10:33

and he didn't think it was just going to be a complete break.

1:10:331:10:36

I don't think he thought it through very, very well.

1:10:361:10:38

I think probably there was some pressure as well

1:10:381:10:40

from my grandmother but I don't think, you know, because people

1:10:401:10:43

said he stopped for his family, I don't think that was 100% the case,

1:10:431:10:48

I think there were other factors and it was probably

1:10:481:10:50

like everything, you know,

1:10:501:10:52

there's more than one thing to consider when somebody

1:10:521:10:55

takes such a big decision, but I think he completely regretted it.

1:10:551:11:00

I really do believe that.

1:11:001:11:01

He realised, I think, that he couldn't live without it.

1:11:011:11:04

What about the offers you've received, the offers of jobs?

1:11:061:11:08

When I was manager we didn't do too bad but I'm wiser now

1:11:081:11:12

and I don't think you can buy the experience I've got.

1:11:121:11:15

And I don't think you can buy the inborn gift that I've got.

1:11:151:11:18

I can help people, I'm certain of that.

1:11:181:11:21

So he was going round other clubs, you know,

1:11:221:11:25

and trying to, you know,

1:11:251:11:27

"Can I help you sometimes?"

1:11:271:11:29

and they didn't want him.

1:11:291:11:31

So, I think... He regretted it, I think,

1:11:311:11:34

because he could have still gone on

1:11:341:11:37

but he might have thought, "I'll go out at the top."

1:11:371:11:40

Which I did.

1:11:421:11:44

Well, I'd been in the game a long time as a player and a manager.

1:11:501:11:54

As a manager, of course, it was a hard task.

1:11:541:11:57

I started at the bottom but I came to Liverpool where

1:11:571:12:00

the potential was tremendous, that was the only reason

1:12:001:12:04

because it was similar to Glasgow and the Scottish people.

1:12:041:12:07

But I got to a point when I'd fought the battles.

1:12:071:12:11

You see, in football, you fight on the field to win

1:12:111:12:13

but you've got battles to fight inside, political battles, to come

1:12:131:12:17

here and try and prove to the directors, try and make them think

1:12:171:12:23

along the same lines as me of the potential there was for Liverpool.

1:12:231:12:28

Because, candidly, it was a kind of shambles of a place.

1:12:281:12:31

I'd fought the battles

1:12:311:12:36

inside and outside, and was only interested in

1:12:361:12:40

one thing, success for the club and that meant success for the people.

1:12:401:12:45

I was only in the game for the love of the game, the results

1:12:451:12:48

for the club, make the people happy, because, at the end of the day

1:12:481:12:51

as I said, you asked me a question, "Why did you love Liverpool?"

1:12:511:12:53

I loved Liverpool because I was manager of Liverpool, I was

1:12:531:12:56

the manager, and that was the satisfaction I got.

1:12:561:13:00

Not that I was gloating about it, but I had won.

1:13:001:13:03

It couldn't have happened to a better man.

1:13:031:13:06

But, you know, unlike Leeds when Don Revie left, they promoted

1:13:101:13:13

from within and, of course, Bob was very close to Bill Shankly.

1:13:131:13:18

Not the same character, but with the same beliefs

1:13:181:13:21

and the same things and that was very clever

1:13:211:13:23

because Leeds brought in Clough, and he tried to change everything

1:13:231:13:27

and there was nothing much wrong at Leeds, Leeds were a great side.

1:13:271:13:31

Whereas Bob knew, being inside, that we were still a great side so he

1:13:311:13:36

just let the ship sail on and took it to new heights, if we're honest.

1:13:361:13:40

I was fortunate enough to be captain of the club at the time.

1:13:551:13:59

I'm walking up them steps

1:13:591:14:01

to pick the European Cup up, and I'm thinking to myself, "We've won it

1:14:011:14:07

"but Shanks really won it," because Shanks made Liverpool a club.

1:14:071:14:12

It must have been really difficult, I think, almost like he'd been

1:14:141:14:18

maybe shoved aside, but I think everything would have balanced

1:14:181:14:24

out maybe afterwards because of the love that people showed him,

1:14:241:14:28

because of the respect that the supporters showed him always.

1:14:281:14:32

And, even Everton, he went to Everton to watch matches

1:14:341:14:37

and he tried to keep it in his life as much as possible

1:14:371:14:41

because that was his life.

1:14:411:14:43

He was aware, I think he was well aware, of his place in history

1:14:491:14:53

and he's well aware of the love that the fans have for him.

1:14:531:14:56

The fans would never have treated him

1:14:581:14:59

the way that maybe the directors treated him

1:14:591:15:02

but, you know, Shankly had the connection with the fans and

1:15:021:15:07

the players,

1:15:071:15:08

didn't have that connection with the directors or the owners.

1:15:081:15:11

I feel that the family owe the Liverpool supporters a lot

1:15:111:15:15

because I think he was very unhappy when he left Liverpool

1:15:151:15:18

and they made things better for him.

1:15:181:15:21

There's a picture of him where it's the Kop, it's

1:15:211:15:25

a very atmospheric kind of photo but for him it was like he standing

1:15:251:15:31

with the people he would have chosen to stand with

1:15:311:15:34

all the time, you know.

1:15:341:15:36

Well, I went in the Kop because I promised I would go in

1:15:361:15:39

and I went in and I enjoyed it.

1:15:391:15:42

I didn't go in for bravado or anything like that.

1:15:421:15:46

No, I went in amongst them because I played for them and I was their man.

1:15:471:15:52

Not only the Kop, Anfield Road and the Paddock

1:15:531:15:55

and the Kemlyn Road Stand and all the stands.

1:15:551:15:57

And all of Anfield.

1:15:571:15:59

So I went in the Kop

1:15:591:16:00

because I had promised a man I would go into the Kop.

1:16:001:16:03

He was a Kopite.

1:16:031:16:04

We stand behind the goal, and someone was shouting,

1:16:071:16:10

"Shankly's over there," and we're going, "No, no chance."

1:16:101:16:13

But he was, he was over there.

1:16:131:16:16

He absolutely got hounded to death, people were jumping all over him.

1:16:161:16:19

He couldn't have enjoyed the match because people were just

1:16:191:16:23

dancing all around him and he

1:16:231:16:25

mustn't have been able to see anything.

1:16:251:16:27

But I think he was making a statement,

1:16:271:16:30

he was making a statement saying, "I'm one of you.

1:16:301:16:35

"And I always will be one of you.

1:16:351:16:36

"Even though I've retired

1:16:361:16:38

"and I'm no longer employed by Liverpool, I'm one of you."

1:16:381:16:41

# He was born in bonnie Scotland

1:16:421:16:47

# And he played the football game

1:16:471:16:52

# He came to Liverpool in '59

1:16:521:16:56

# To help us win again

1:16:561:17:00

# And with his mighty red army

1:17:011:17:05

# He marched to victory

1:17:051:17:09

# He was a legend in his time

1:17:091:17:14

# Our hero Bill Shankly

1:17:141:17:18

# So, all say thanks to the Shanks

1:17:181:17:23

# He'll never walk alone

1:17:231:17:27

# They'll sing a song for all the world

1:17:271:17:31

# In this his Liverpool home. #

1:17:311:17:35

Well, the day he died was so poignant and tragic and sad,

1:17:431:17:48

the flag on the Town Hall flew at half mast.

1:17:481:17:52

It really was, the whole city mourned,

1:17:521:17:54

red and blue disappeared, it was Merseyside united

1:17:541:17:58

and not just Merseyside, I think the whole country.

1:17:581:18:01

I think it was a symbol of what Bill had achieved that he

1:18:011:18:04

transcended football so, first, when Bill Shankly quit people

1:18:041:18:09

couldn't believe it, but when he died, it was like a national loss.

1:18:091:18:13

It felt like a member of your family had passed away.

1:18:141:18:18

He died, I don't know, presumably early in the week

1:18:181:18:21

and we played Swansea at home on the Saturday and

1:18:211:18:26

we kicked off about 11.00, 11.30 in the morning, and Swansea in those

1:18:261:18:30

days were managed by John Toshack, who obviously had played for Shanks,

1:18:301:18:35

and everything like that. And it was...

1:18:351:18:37

Before the game, we all went out and we had the minute's silence,

1:18:371:18:40

which was almost unheard of, and it was unbelievably respectful,

1:18:401:18:45

it was fantastic.

1:18:451:18:46

And it was just the fact that, you know, I'd only met him

1:18:461:18:49

a couple of times but I got the fact that, "Oh, my goodness me,

1:18:491:18:52

"this fella was Mr Liverpool."

1:18:521:18:55

I was away in Norway and we came home for the funeral,

1:18:561:19:02

and I always remember getting in my car, driving into town

1:19:021:19:07

and putting the radio on and there was an interview with Bill Shankly.

1:19:071:19:14

And, as soon as I put it on, my name was mentioned.

1:19:141:19:18

You know, he was talking about me

1:19:191:19:22

and he was saying I was an honest boy and all that.

1:19:221:19:25

A moment like that, you wouldn't realise, you know,

1:19:281:19:31

it was very emotional.

1:19:311:19:33

But he was the best thing that ever happened to Liverpool.

1:19:351:19:38

Well, I got asked... I won this award and it was in London and,

1:19:401:19:45

to my amazement, I didn't know Bill Shankly was coming,

1:19:451:19:47

he came out and presented me with it.

1:19:471:19:49

And I just gave it him back and said, "Thank you, it's yours,

1:19:491:19:53

"because I wouldn't have had it without you."

1:19:531:19:56

And he was...

1:19:561:19:57

But he took it, and when we went to his funeral,

1:19:571:20:03

we were in the front room and the first thing

1:20:031:20:08

when we came to his house, Nessie came up to me and said

1:20:081:20:11

"This is yours, he said I've got to give it you back the day he died."

1:20:111:20:15

It just creased me, you know.

1:20:151:20:17

Pretty tough when she gave it me back.

1:20:221:20:25

I still remember absolutely every moment of it, really,

1:20:271:20:30

from the time we left the house it was like a sea of people.

1:20:301:20:34

Red scarves and blue scarves, as well, Everton supporters.

1:20:341:20:36

I mean, when I saw the Everton supporters who'd come out to

1:20:361:20:39

pay their last respects, that is when I just fell apart, really,

1:20:391:20:43

because it was nothing to do with football, it was people,

1:20:431:20:46

you know, coming to pay their last respects.

1:20:461:20:48

Well, I just felt I had to. Oh, I'm sorry I can't...

1:20:511:20:55

Yeah, he was so loved.

1:20:561:20:58

It was wonderful,

1:20:581:20:59

it was one of those things that you were glad you could go to it.

1:20:591:21:05

I was a youth worker at the time and I was based

1:21:081:21:11

just by the Jolly Miller,

1:21:111:21:13

and the church wasn't very far away but I couldn't bring myself to go.

1:21:131:21:18

Don't know whether it was because I thought I'd be too upset there,

1:21:191:21:22

I don't know, but I just couldn't bring myself to go to the funeral.

1:21:221:21:26

You know, I wanted to... For me, as a religious thing,

1:21:261:21:30

I wanted him to live forever, to be resurrected.

1:21:301:21:35

They got a huge turnout. Huge, huge, huge.

1:21:371:21:42

Just everybody wanted to be there, you know.

1:21:421:21:44

We didn't want to be there.

1:21:461:21:47

It was a sad, sad day, football's great loss

1:21:491:21:54

when a man like Bill Shankly leaves the pitch.

1:21:541:21:58

BAGPIPES PLAY AMAZING GRACE

1:21:581:21:59

Bill Shankly didnae live for himself,

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Bill Shankly lived for the team, the extended family and the city.

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TO THE TUNE OF AMAZING GRACE:

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# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly

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# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly

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# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly, Shankly

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# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly. #

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I think something gets lost when we cease to think that

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the attitudes that Bill Shankly had and the enthusiasm he had,

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the humanity that he brought to his involvement with football -

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if that goes, if we cease to believe in that, I think something is lost.

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It's like people say now, you know, you love football

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but you hate the industry, and I kind of do.

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It's something that you feel that's been taken away from people

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and been sold back to them at an exorbitant price

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and the era that he comes out of, the era that he was

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a successful manager in, it was a more optimistic time for Britain.

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We look back on that era now as a sort of almost like a lost

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paradise in a way, you know, and I think anybody that had their

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personal ascendancy in that time is very valued, is very valued in

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the working class community as something

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that we've lost in some way.

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If I had a business and I wanted a workforce,

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I would pick my workforce from Merseyside.

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It's a kind of distressed area, there's a lot of unemployment

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and people have a hard time but they've got a big spirit.

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All they need is handling like human beings,

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not bullied and pushed around, I'll tell you.

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So I'll take my workforce from Merseyside, and anybody

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can take theirs from anywhere else they like and I'll win.

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Fans in general across the country now,

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they get treated like second class citizens but we get charged

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first class prices, basically, and he would be mortified, I know

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he would, and it's a shame that he's not around because he'd be the

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voice that would be fighting on our behalf, there's no danger of that.

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He wouldn't like it now, it's not his idea of football.

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I think he'd be looking down and thinking, "Oh, it's changed

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"and I'm not sure it's for the better here."

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You know, he wouldn't like the players putting on earphones

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and walking off a bus without acknowledging the fans

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and signing a few autographs. He'd hate that.

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He wouldn't like the corporate, he didn't see football as

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somewhere where you go and sit in a privileged seat and you have a meal.

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He probably wouldn't even like the advertising on the front,

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I think he just liked the badge.

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So, it's changed a lot, but that was the best era,

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there's no doubt about it.

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The Shankly days at Liverpool,

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despite Bob Paisley doing a lot better and other times

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and maybe Klopp even now might take the club and do all the same

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things again...

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You know, the first time it happens

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is always the best.

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I was a lucky, lucky boy because in the '70s

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when we were winning everything, you know, I was about 25,

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it couldn't have happened at a better time of my life.

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I was really lucky.

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The timing was perfect, going right through to see all those games.

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I was a lucky boy and all those memories I'll treasure till

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the day I die.

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Really, really good.

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You see, this is the story, that Liverpool's not only a club,

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it's an institution where my aim was to bring the people

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close to the team, to the club.

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So much so that men died, and the women, their wives,

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brought their ashes to scatter them in the Anfield ground

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and they said a little prayer, then they went away.

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I mean, football's a matter of life and death.

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I said, "Look, it's more important than that,"

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and it's more important to them than that, you see.

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And that's why there was no hypocrisy, it was sheer honesty.

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These people support Liverpool, and I accepted them then.

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Got them in, I said, "Come in, in you come."

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Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool...

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The people of Liverpool, Liverpool supporters,

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looked up to Shankly, like, top man, wasn't he?

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He was just the person that they could trust. With anything.

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Yeah. Very difficult thing, he was just such a great man.

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Oh, yeah, people still talk about him.

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Somebody will say, you know, "What about that Bill Shankly?"

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They want to know a bit about him.

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What was he like?

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Well, I think in life all good things, all incredible things,

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start from people and beliefs and values, and I think Bill Shankly

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is the iconic figure in terms of Liverpool Football Club.

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You know, if he'd have made mistakes and put the wrong ideas

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and the wrong philosophies in place, who knows,

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we might not be been sitting here doing

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an interview at one of the biggest football clubs in the world.

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I said before that time moves on, things change, but I think a figure

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like that and the values he had, I think that's still the same today.

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And he's a man, I think, who we'd all look for and think...

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you'd like your dad, yourself, your grandad to have that look on life.

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Always trying to help people.

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I think that's what Bill Shankly did, it wasn't

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just about football, it was helping his fellow man.

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I suppose my abiding

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memory of Bill is...

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just the delight I felt when I

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saw him coming towards me, and

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the certainty that

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there would be a lot of laughing along the way, and a lot of warmth.

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He was a great Ayrshireman, and we've had a few great

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Ayrshiremen, but Bill would be up there with the higher ranks.

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But he was a very unique man.

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They always said there'll never be another,

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and the statue we've got here, it's so apt.

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The inscription on it says, "He made the people happy."

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You couldn't have thought up a better line for him,

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could you? "He made the people happy."

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Everybody who'd come here, he made the people happy.

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And if you can do that, as a manager,

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you deserve to have the job, don't you?

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# Walk on through the wind

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# Walk on through the rain

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# Though your dreams be tossed

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# And blown

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# Walk on, walk on

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# With hope in your heart

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# And you'll never walk alone

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# You'll never walk alone

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# Walk on, walk on

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# With hope in your heart

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# And you'll never walk alone

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# You'll never walk alone. #

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