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# Once upon a time there was a tavern | 0:00:05 | 0:00:10 | |
# Where we used to raise a glass or two | 0:00:10 | 0:00:16 | |
# Remember how we laughed away the hours | 0:00:16 | 0:00:22 | |
# Think of all the great things we would do | 0:00:22 | 0:00:27 | |
# Those were the days, my friend | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
# We thought they'd never end | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
# We'd sing and dance forever and a day | 0:00:36 | 0:00:41 | |
# We'd live the life we'd choose | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
# We'd fight and never lose | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
# For we were young, and sure to have our way... # | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
Shankly! Shankly! Shankly! Shankly! | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
This is where Uncle Willie, Bill Shankly, was born. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:13 | |
There were four houses in the front, and four houses behind. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:17 | |
The ten children were born within 20 years, | 0:01:17 | 0:01:22 | |
five boys and five girls. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
Bill Shankly was the last of the boys. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
There was no electricity. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
I think there could be running water, but there was no hot water. | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
Very, very poor conditions. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:40 | |
If you had a neighbour that needed something, and you had excess, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
which... There was never a lot of excess, but if you had something | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
that the neighbour needed it desperately, | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
you would give the neighbour, because you didn't ever know | 0:01:49 | 0:01:52 | |
the next day that you might need something. | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
Until the 1790s, miners were serfs in Scotland, | 0:01:56 | 0:02:01 | |
but during the 19th century, they got themselves organised, | 0:02:01 | 0:02:05 | |
and by the early 20th century, miners had replaced the old | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
hand loom weavers in the past as the vanguard of the working class. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
So, a strong socialist tradition, strong self-help tradition, | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
and also a strong tradition of self-improvement. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:21 | |
So, within a mining community you'd have Burns Clubs, | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
you'd have football clubs, you'd have all kinds of activities, | 0:02:25 | 0:02:28 | |
and Burns was a living tradition with these people. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
It was a living tradition even when I was growing up in the 1950s. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:35 | |
Well, in Shankly's day, even more so. | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
They'd have been brought up with the ideal of egalitarianism - | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
A Man's A Man for A' That. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:44 | |
# Is there for honest poverty, that hangs his head and a' that... # | 0:02:47 | 0:02:54 | |
It's amazing for me. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
It's my first time, so it's lovely. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
It's quite poignant, the fact that we're on a coach load of people, | 0:02:59 | 0:03:04 | |
and going to meet more people that still do this. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
It's like he's more famous now | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
than when he died all those years ago in '81. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
The banners rise on the Kop, and the voices call for Bill Shankly. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
And now the salute for the champions, and for Bill Shankly, | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
who takes off his jacket to reveal a characteristic red shirt. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:26 | |
This is the man they love. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
He was a big fan of Rabbie Burns. Mm-hm. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
Very big fan. But, of course, Rabbie Burns, he was a poor ploughman. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:37 | |
Uncle Willie, as you know, went down the pit when he was 15, | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
and he'd go down the pit, finish his shift, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
and then go and play football. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:48 | |
It may not even be a ball, it could be a tin can, | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
it could be anything that got kicked about. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
This was a photo of Glenbuck Cherrypickers. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
This is Grandpa Shankly, John Shankly. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
This is the Auchenstilloch cottages. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
This is the two houses that was knocked into one, | 0:04:02 | 0:04:06 | |
where Uncle Willie was born. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:09 | |
And, I mean, there could be 10-a-side, there could be 15-a-side, | 0:04:09 | 0:04:13 | |
because that's all they had to do, and that's why | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
there were 50 professional players came from Glenbuck. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:20 | |
There was a strong football team, | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
there was the strong loyalty of the coal mining industry, | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
and they go hand in hand, | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
and I think the football team really represented the community. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
I was born in the village of Glenbuck, | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
who had a team, called the Glenbuck Cherrypickers. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
But they were at the end of their day when I... | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
And I only played one game for them. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:44 | |
Then they were finished for all time. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
Then I moved on to another junior team. I was only 17 years old. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
About ten miles from Glenbuck. So I started with them, really. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:56 | |
A team called Cronberry. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
In its basics, in what is required to play football, it's quite simple, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:05 | |
and, you know, we know from its origins that it was just | 0:05:05 | 0:05:11 | |
a kind of mob activity originally, and you don't need to be | 0:05:11 | 0:05:16 | |
a very special physical specimen to do it then. | 0:05:16 | 0:05:21 | |
And it may be a small form of romance, | 0:05:21 | 0:05:23 | |
but when somebody beats a man or scores a good goal, | 0:05:23 | 0:05:28 | |
or makes a great tackle or something, | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
there is undoubtedly, from the lowest levels of the game to the | 0:05:31 | 0:05:36 | |
highest, a tremendous satisfaction and a sense of self-expression. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:42 | |
When you think about it, you know, football was the one thing | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
you could do, not to go down the pit in these days. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
And if you were going down the pit and you were in this very dark and | 0:05:50 | 0:05:55 | |
claustrophobic and dangerous space, imagine the kind of liberation | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
it must be to run around on a field, you know, to run around playing. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
So you've got those blue skies above, | 0:06:02 | 0:06:04 | |
or even grey skies above, but you've got all this space around you. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
You're darting around this field, | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
and then you have to go back down to this dark, enclosed space. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
So football must have been, not just a means to break out of that world, | 0:06:13 | 0:06:19 | |
but it must have been an almost kind of spiritual, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
kind of existential release. You know, "We're human beings, | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
"this is what we're supposed to be doing". | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
One of the foundations of my affinity with Bill, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:34 | |
and it was a very warm affinity over the years, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
was that we were fellow Ayrshiremen, and it's always struck me | 0:06:38 | 0:06:43 | |
that three of the greatest managers who've worked in British football - | 0:06:43 | 0:06:49 | |
Shankly, Busby and Stein - were all born within 20 miles | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
of one another, and were from mining families. | 0:06:53 | 0:06:59 | |
Their understanding of teamwork and of camaraderie | 0:06:59 | 0:07:06 | |
was absolutely in the marrow. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
There was nothing else except mines. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
You were lucky if you got a job, you were lucky | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
if you got a job in the mines, and I think, possibly, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:21 | |
the fact that this was the case gave us a... | 0:07:21 | 0:07:26 | |
Well, it built us to the fact that we had to try and better ourselves, | 0:07:26 | 0:07:32 | |
to try and create something or do something. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:34 | |
Bill had a number of brothers, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
and all five of them played professional football. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
Quite an astonishing feat in those days, for all five of them | 0:07:45 | 0:07:50 | |
to go on and play professional football at some level or other. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
The game that developed in Scotland was a community game. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
Very, very different from what came out of the | 0:07:58 | 0:08:00 | |
public schools in England. But what specifically happened was, | 0:08:00 | 0:08:04 | |
they developed this short passing game and, because of that, it gave | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
the Scots an advantage in football so the result of that was that, | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
literally, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of boys from Scotland | 0:08:12 | 0:08:17 | |
went down to England and became the core of the new professional game. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:22 | |
You know, the English league was started by a Scot, the FA Cup | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
was started by a Scot, but it all goes back to these wee communities. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:31 | |
People like Shankly and Stein were steeped in that tradition | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
going back literally hundreds of years. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
Above all, the main aim is that everybody can control the ball, | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
and do the basic thing in football. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
It's control and pass, control and pass. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
So this is the whole of you. It's so simple. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
Get it, give an early pass, then it goes from me to somebody else, | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
and it switches around. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:03 | |
So it's all give and take, and give and back up. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:08 | |
You need help, you get the backing. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
But these guys who were kind of fired by that sense of passion | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
and teamwork, and forging common purpose, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:19 | |
they were very much in the ascendancy with that | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
industrialisation and that kind of industrial socialism, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:24 | |
whereby everybody worked in the same team and played together. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:28 | |
It came from that ethos, basically. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
The sense of being in it together was immensely powerful. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:39 | |
There was a strength about it, you know, there was a feeling that | 0:09:39 | 0:09:44 | |
there was never any doubt about their conviction, | 0:09:44 | 0:09:49 | |
that they were as good as anybody on the planet, | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
and they were prepared to let people know that. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:56 | |
After a season with Cronberry Juniors, | 0:09:56 | 0:09:59 | |
then I went to Carlisle as a professional player. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
Well, I went to Carlisle for one season, and at the end of | 0:10:03 | 0:10:08 | |
that season, Preston North End had been watching me and fancied me, | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
and they paid Carlisle £500 for my transfer. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
Well, obviously, this is it, this is Deepdale. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
You can see all the various stands - Sir Tom is behind us, Alan Kelly | 0:10:23 | 0:10:29 | |
and that's mainly the kind of sponsors' stand, | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
but, obviously, there's your man, there's Sir William Shankly. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:36 | |
Or William Shankly. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:38 | |
Well, my connection to Preston is, my dad played here | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
so I was born about... less than a mile away. | 0:10:42 | 0:10:46 | |
I think at the age of 12 or 13, I got my first season ticket, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
so it's always been my club, and always will be my club, obviously. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:54 | |
Because when the transfer was going through, I wasn't going to go. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
Because I said to my brother, Alec, | 0:10:58 | 0:10:59 | |
"I'm only getting ten shillings more and I'm further away from home". | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
He said, "Well, it isn't what you're getting now, | 0:11:02 | 0:11:05 | |
"it's the opportunity of playing for Preston North End". | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
I mean, Preston was a working class town, | 0:11:09 | 0:11:13 | |
and really had a working class team, but actually, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
when you think about it, it probably had a world-class team. | 0:11:15 | 0:11:19 | |
A mighty burst of cheering announces the arrival of the King and Queen, | 0:11:19 | 0:11:23 | |
and the King meets the players, shaking hands first with Preston, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
then with Huddersfield. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
I joined them actually in '36, and I would say | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
they were one of the leading sides in those days, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
and always had a very heavy Scottish contingent. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
This was, I think, because it was always one of the sayings | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
of the chairman that all the good players come from Scotland, | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
of course not forgetting Bill Shankly. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
You mentioned Bill Shankly there. What was he like to play with? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
Oh, Bill was a real character, you know, he was the sort of chap | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
that you could be losing the game 3-0, two minutes to go, | 0:11:54 | 0:11:57 | |
and he would still have his sleeves rolled up, | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
and telling you, "Come on, we can beat this team yet". | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
The referee gave a penalty to Preston, | 0:12:02 | 0:12:04 | |
and Mutch, who was the victim, took the kick. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:07 | |
A goal in the last minute of the match. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
And being in a losing Cup Final, | 0:12:11 | 0:12:13 | |
and going back the following season and having the winning Cup Final, | 0:12:13 | 0:12:17 | |
when the final whistle blows at Wembley, and you've won the Cup, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
the elation's unbelievable. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
Oh, it was massive. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
Absolutely massive, because in those days, | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
and it would have been the same for me when I was a kid playing in the | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
back garden, but in those days you played football in the back garden, | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
and scored a goal, it was always a winning goal in the Cup Final. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:39 | |
It wasn't to win the Premier League, | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
it was never to win the Champions League so, obviously, | 0:12:40 | 0:12:44 | |
for Shanks and for a club like this, it was utopia. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
Remember 1938? | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
The Yankees won the Pennant. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
"Wrong Way" Corrigan. | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
The last trains ran on the 6th Avenue El. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
Well, John Britain got excited about the same sort of thing. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
The bet he had on the der-by, or, as he would say, the dar-by. | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
His job, his kids, getting his exercise on his day off. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:14 | |
Preston North End taking the football cup. | 0:13:14 | 0:13:16 | |
Only 300 miles away, people were cheering another kind of event. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
Sieg Heil! Sieg Heil! | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
I think it's absolutely true that the War cut short his career, | 0:13:28 | 0:13:32 | |
certainly his international career, | 0:13:32 | 0:13:33 | |
because football, official football, stopped. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
So, there's a good six, seven years which are wasted during the War | 0:13:36 | 0:13:41 | |
when he's not really playing as a professional player. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
He's in the RAF. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:47 | |
Because, when I went to Carlisle, which was my first job, | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
I was 35 years of age, | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
and I went there, and I knew that I was picking the team. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
I started a junior team then, they'd only one team, | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
so I'd a reserve team, and I started another team. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
No, I went to Carlisle with the understanding that if I needed | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
a player and they could get the money, then they would buy him. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
He started with Carlisle United, who were in the Third Division North. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
He then goes to Grimsby Town, and then he goes to Workington. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
And when he joins the club, he goes in on the first day, | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
goes to switch the light on, and discovers there's no light switch. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
When he asks "Where's the lights here?", | 0:14:30 | 0:14:32 | |
he's told "We don't have electricity, we've still got gas". | 0:14:32 | 0:14:36 | |
And it's little surprise that he then moves on to Huddersfield Town. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
The manager of Huddersfield Town at the time | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
is a man called Andy Beattie, and Andy Beattie had played with Bill | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
at Preston North End, and he offered him the job as coach, | 0:14:52 | 0:14:57 | |
and Shankly decides to take it, | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
although he's been number one in various places. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
Mainly because Huddersfield Town are in the Second Division, | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
and they have been a great football team. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:09 | |
He was a character, as we all know. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
He was the assistant manager with Andy Beattie. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
He then left, and Bill Shankly became the manager. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
But they were like father figures in those days. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
Sounds strange at this time in the world, | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
but then it was quite rough, quite tough as well so, if | 0:15:34 | 0:15:39 | |
it hadn't been for those two guys, I'd have probably gone back home. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
Andy Beattie was a much more calmer guy, as Sir Matt Busby was. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:49 | |
Shankly was completely different. It was just all go, all the time. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:56 | |
He learnt me everything in the game of football. | 0:15:56 | 0:15:58 | |
One day, we were due to play Cardiff City at Huddersfield, | 0:16:02 | 0:16:06 | |
and the late T V Williams, who was chairman then, | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
come down the steps at Huddersfield, | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
and I was offered the managership of Liverpool. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
The Kop was famous, even then. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
So I came here because there was potential, | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
and it was possible to make Anfield and Liverpool into a team. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
And I knew that there was people here dying to have a team. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
Here, in Liverpool, on Merseyside, we have this great melting pot | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
of nations - the Irish, the Welsh, the Scotch, | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
and the English, of course. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
We think this is the greatest city in the world, not only | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
a great sea port, and certainly not the picture that some people | 0:16:46 | 0:16:50 | |
have of Liverpool as a dingy, underprivileged slum. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
We've got a great deal to be proud of in Liverpool, | 0:16:55 | 0:16:57 | |
and we ARE proud of it. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
Liverpool was founded in 1892, and this is where it was founded, | 0:17:01 | 0:17:07 | |
and ever since, it's been associated with Liverpool Football Club. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
Me grandad used to live opposite the ground, really, you know, | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
and me earliest childhood memories were coming up to the ground, | 0:17:18 | 0:17:21 | |
because me dad used to go to the matches, | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
and I'd come out onto this main road here and meet him. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:28 | |
So, I was obsessed with the game of football from an early age, | 0:17:28 | 0:17:32 | |
you know. I didn't think it was a unique city, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
I just thought everyone in the world was obsessed with football. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:38 | |
For our family, where I was, in front of me house | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
was a gravel pitch, if you like, and me brother's a couple of years | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
older than me, and all his friends were always involved in footy. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
I basically wanted to latch on to them and play as much as I can. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
You know, for Christmas presents and birthday presents, I was often | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
getting DVDs, Liverpool DVDs, | 0:17:56 | 0:17:58 | |
of all the successful teams over the years. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:02 | |
I'm lucky to have a huge football club on me doorstep, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:06 | |
because I knew from an early age I wanted to be a footballer, | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
and I knew which team I wanted to represent. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
Liverpool is football as a city. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
Every kid wants to play for Liverpool or Everton, | 0:18:16 | 0:18:18 | |
and there's very few people who haven't got that passion for or | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
support one of the sides, or get upset when it's not going well, | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
or vice versa. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:27 | |
Football will always be maybe the biggest thing in the city. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:31 | |
My early memories of Liverpool Football Club go back a long way, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
because my father was a dyed in the wool Kopite, and Liverpool, | 0:18:37 | 0:18:44 | |
all my life as far as I remember it, had been in the old Second Division, | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
and that was where I was used to having them, and I get the feeling, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:54 | |
looking back, that a lot of the powers that be at Anfield then | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
were quite happy to be a big fish in a smaller pond. | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
But this guy, Shankly, turned up from Huddersfield. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:06 | |
His ambitions were far and above the Second Division. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:12 | |
I go back even when we was in the First Division, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:17 | |
before we got relegated in '54, | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
and the place was a joke, a dump. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:23 | |
And when he come, you know, I think it was the training ground, | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
Melwood, he completely revamped that, like. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
It was the first time we'd seen anything getting done at Liverpool! | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
Well, this is a picture of us winning the league, | 0:19:39 | 0:19:46 | |
and there you've got Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley, Joe Fagan, | 0:19:46 | 0:19:52 | |
Ron Yeats, Ian Callaghan. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
A great team, this was. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:58 | |
There wasn't a lot of money around, but it was fantastic, really, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
just to be a footballer, so I really put a lot into it, you know. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:08 | |
Running and kicking a ball, kicking a ball against the wall, | 0:20:08 | 0:20:14 | |
trying this and that. Yeah. And it came off. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
You know, I told you I was already there when Shankly turned up, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:25 | |
and Bob Paisley was there then, Joe Fagan was there then, | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
Reuben Bennett was there then, and he kept them all on. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
And he says, "This team's going to go places," | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
and he didn't bring anybody with him, | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
so I was very lucky, I think, to actually be there at that time. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
Well, before Bill Shankly came, I'd been at the club for... | 0:20:46 | 0:20:51 | |
I think it was three or four months. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:53 | |
I joined the ground staff from school in the summer, | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
and he came in the October. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:57 | |
I'd work at the ground during the day from, what, | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
8:30 till 5:00, and then two nights a week, | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
I'd go to training with the amateurs at Melwood. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
And Bill Shankly came, and the first day, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
I had a tea break, and he stopped me. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
I was surprised he knew who I was, you know, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
and he asked me what my routine was. I told him, you know, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:25 | |
and he said, "You're here to learn your trade son." | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
He said, "Tomorrow morning, | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
"tell your boss that you're coming training with the professionals". | 0:21:31 | 0:21:36 | |
You know, it was a big thing for me then. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
Not for my boss at the ground staff, | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
but, you know, it was a big thing then. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
Priority first and foremost was to get to know the people, | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
the people I was working with, the players I had on my books. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:52 | |
The ones who I thought were good enough, and weren't good enough. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
I had to make a note of the whole affair, | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
so I was to get to know the whole thing and the whole place, | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
and to try and instil into the directors, of course, that the | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
potential at Liverpool was just as great as anywhere in the world. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:10 | |
Originally, before Shankly came, the training methods were, like, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:17 | |
run round the pitch for about two hours, you know, and then | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
we'll give you the ball, because you might be hungry for the ball then. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
Always remember coming back from one summer, | 0:22:28 | 0:22:32 | |
and he'd had the carpenter from Anfield build all these boards, | 0:22:32 | 0:22:39 | |
you know, "sweat boxes," we used to call them. | 0:22:39 | 0:22:42 | |
I've never heard that mentioned either or seen it anywhere | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
in a training ground. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
So you'd kick the ball, and didn't know where it was coming up, | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
and then see where it was coming and you had to hit it again. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
And that was something completely different. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
So you're on from there, he said "You've got to run to | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
"that board, hit the ball against the board, collect it, turn, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:04 | |
"and go to the other one, and keep on doing that as fast as you can". | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
He said, "Everything in the game's there, you're giving a pass, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
"taking a pass, turning" and, you know you're getting rest | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
and getting fitness training as well, | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
so at the end of every game, you were still going strong. | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
You see, it's not how long you train, | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
it's how much you put into the training. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:28 | |
Well, the Liverpool training is really based on | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
exhaustion and recovery. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:32 | |
So you were working hard, twisting and turning and | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
twisting and turning, which the game's all about. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
If you're fit, you've a tremendous advantage over everybody else. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
Then if you, as Liverpool do, try to give everybody | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
a touch of the ball as quick as they can during the match... | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
Hunt hooks it, and it's a goal! | 0:23:47 | 0:23:48 | |
He was like one of you, one of me. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
You know, he wasn't, "I'm a big guy," or anything like that. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:58 | |
He wanted to be with the players and the people, and he used to say | 0:23:58 | 0:24:03 | |
"I want this city to actually have this fantastic team," | 0:24:03 | 0:24:08 | |
because he loved Liverpool. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
He was so right in a lot of things, | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
and then the crowd - they adored him. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
# The Liver Bird upon my chest | 0:24:19 | 0:24:24 | |
# We are men of Shankly's best | 0:24:24 | 0:24:29 | |
# A team that plays the Liverpool way | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
# And wins the league and a cup in May. # | 0:24:33 | 0:24:38 | |
-# The Liver Bird upon my chest -(Upon my chest) | 0:24:39 | 0:24:44 | |
-# We are men of Shankly's best -(Of Shankly's best) | 0:24:44 | 0:24:50 | |
# A team that plays the Liverpool way | 0:24:50 | 0:24:54 | |
# And wins the championship in May. # | 0:24:54 | 0:24:58 | |
Well, Liverpool were in the Second Division, | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
and very much the underdogs of the city. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
People at school, the older kids at school, | 0:25:04 | 0:25:06 | |
their fathers would take them to the match. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
Mostly to watch Everton, | 0:25:09 | 0:25:10 | |
because they were in the First Division in them days. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:12 | |
So I pestered and pestered and pestered me dad to take me, | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
and me dad wasn't interested in football, believe it or not, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
he was a snooker man. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
So, in the end, he took me. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:23 | |
It was the Lancashire Senior Cup, and a night match at Goodison. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
So I didn't know who to support, as I had no guidance off me dad, | 0:25:28 | 0:25:33 | |
but outside he bought me a blue and white bobble hat. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
So, anyway, Everton's floodlights, night game, they must have been | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
250 foot high, you could see them throughout the city, you know. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
So when the lights come on, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
it was absolutely dazzling on the football pitch. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
So, Liverpool come out first, the red shirts. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
As soon as I seen the red shirts, I went, "That's my team". | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
I just got hold of the blue and white bobble hat, | 0:25:54 | 0:25:56 | |
and threw it on the floor, and said "Dad, that's my team". | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
He said, "I've just bought you a blue and white bobble hat". | 0:25:58 | 0:26:01 | |
I said, "I don't care, that's my team," | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
and from then on, I was Liverpool mad, all through me life. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Epstein Theatre, | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
and our show When Shankly's Dream Came True. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
Now, please welcome onstage your presenter, John Keith. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:26:20 | 0:26:25 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, Bill Shankly, in that wonderful way | 0:26:25 | 0:26:29 | |
he had of plain speaking, called it "a terrible disgrace". | 0:26:29 | 0:26:33 | |
He was referring to the fact that, | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
when he crossed the Pennines from Huddersfield, and blew into Anfield | 0:26:35 | 0:26:38 | |
like a whirlwind in December 1959, the club had never won the FA Cup. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:43 | |
-VOICEOVER: -When Shankly arrived, he knew he had to find heroes | 0:26:44 | 0:26:48 | |
and he had Tommy Lawrence, the goalkeeper, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
who'd been there a long time, and he brought him in eventually | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
as first choice goalkeeper, and then he went out and signed Ian St John | 0:26:55 | 0:26:59 | |
and Ron Yeats, to complete what Shankly called his "Spine Theory". | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
You've got to have strength right down the middle. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:06 | |
Well, Shankly left Huddersfield because he thought | 0:27:06 | 0:27:09 | |
they lacked ambition and they kept on selling their best players, | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
and he tried to get Ron Yeats and Ian St John at Huddersfield, | 0:27:12 | 0:27:16 | |
and the board had said, "We haven't got the money". | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
So when Liverpool came knocking, | 0:27:19 | 0:27:21 | |
one of the provisos was that Liverpool had money to spend. | 0:27:21 | 0:27:25 | |
When he started to try and buy players, | 0:27:25 | 0:27:27 | |
the board said, "Well, we haven't got the money", | 0:27:27 | 0:27:31 | |
so he felt as if he'd been duped slightly. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
So after about 18 months, a man come onto the board, called Mr Sawyer. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:39 | |
He'd come from the Littlewoods organisation. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
He was an ambitious man, big man in the mail order. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
So, St John come onto the market. I went to the board meeting, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
and I said that St John of Motherwell could be for sale. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:56 | |
And they were talking about the price, | 0:27:56 | 0:27:58 | |
and somebody says, "We can't afford to sign him," | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
but Mr Sawyer said, "We can't afford NOT to sign him". | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
A question a lot of people ask me is about the St John chant, | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
which started with a record called Let's Go by The Routers, | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
because, like a lot of music in this city in the early '60s, | 0:28:15 | 0:28:20 | |
it came from America, in the suitcases of merchant seamen. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:26 | |
That was how the Merseybeat era got started, | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
by all the imported music. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
You know the handclap, the... | 0:28:31 | 0:28:32 | |
RHYTHMIC CLAPPING | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
Let's go! | 0:28:38 | 0:28:39 | |
A spectacular header by St John puts Liverpool in front. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
He was the beginning, he set the place on fire. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
Well, I'd never met anybody quite like him, and I think if you asked | 0:29:05 | 0:29:10 | |
any of the players of our era, they would tell you the same thing. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
I mean, he was overpowering, and he was football mad, football crazy. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:20 | |
And, his confidence in us coming down to English football, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:26 | |
and settling in and being a big part of it, was great, | 0:29:26 | 0:29:31 | |
because he made us believe. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:33 | |
Liverpool were looking for a centre half, and he come marching out, | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
looking up at me, and he said, "Bloody hell", | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
he said, "Big lad, you must be about seven foot tall". | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
I said "No, I'm six foot three". | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
He says "That's near enough seven foot for me, son". | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
And the thing about the players that played under him - | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
you learned from him in that it was about giving rather than taking, | 0:29:55 | 0:30:00 | |
you know, and money never came into it. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:02 | |
Yeah, he liked honest players. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:09 | |
I always remember, he asked me, talking about one particular | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
player, I said, "He might not have had the ability, but he was honest". | 0:30:12 | 0:30:19 | |
And he went "That's one of the main things in life, son, being honest". | 0:30:19 | 0:30:25 | |
Well, Ian, you and Ron Yeats and the boys there, you certainly | 0:30:27 | 0:30:30 | |
wasted little time in putting Liverpool back on the football map. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
In your first season, Shankly's new side stormed to promotion | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
back to the top flight as Second Division champions. | 0:30:37 | 0:30:40 | |
Ian, you and Roger Hunt scored a total of 59 league goals... | 0:30:40 | 0:30:43 | |
Yeah, they made a big difference, those two. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:47 | |
They came off pretty quick, and of course, they were Scottish as well | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
and, you know, he was more friendly with the Scottish than the English. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
But they were two really good players. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:01 | |
For most of Britain, | 0:31:12 | 0:31:13 | |
the Glorious 21st marks the start of the real shooting season. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
Shooting for goals, and a jackpot on the pools. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
Principal match of the day was between Liverpool and Arsenal, | 0:31:19 | 0:31:21 | |
and the league champions served notice that they were | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
out for blood this season, too. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:25 | |
Here they come, Liverpool first, then Arsenal. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
Well, the boss always said... When he'd come to Anfield, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
he said, "It's a disgrace that this team has never won the FA Cup". | 0:31:31 | 0:31:36 | |
Even for us in Scotland, everybody wanted to see the FA Cup Final, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
it was the huge game, so when I came down here, Shanks was on about, | 0:31:41 | 0:31:47 | |
"We must win this cup for the fans". | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
MUSIC: Shankly's Dream | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
I was going from the year dot watching Liverpool, | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
but when you talked about the Cup Final, Evertonians, always the thing | 0:31:59 | 0:32:04 | |
that they always had over us, always, all the time, | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
"But you've never won the Cup, you've never won the Cup," | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
and the well-known saying any time you got in any conversation was, | 0:32:10 | 0:32:15 | |
"The Liver Bird'll fly away before you win the Cup". | 0:32:15 | 0:32:18 | |
So, when we got to the final against a good team, | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
the whole city of Liverpool really wanted to get to that final. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
Just... The build-up was unbelievable. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
-CHANTING: -Shankly! Shankly! | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
We get to '65, and we battle our way through to it, | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
and we're playing Leeds United, who were the next up-and-coming team. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:39 | |
Don Revie had got some great players there. Hard players. | 0:32:39 | 0:32:43 | |
The warriors in the War of the Roses - | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
the red rose of Lancashire, the white of Yorkshire. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:51 | |
It was going to be a bit of a game, | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
because they were great rivals as well, | 0:32:53 | 0:32:56 | |
because Revie was of the same sort of ilk as Shanks, you know. | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
I come from a big family, and we were all Reds, you know, | 0:33:02 | 0:33:06 | |
and they'd never won the FA Cup, | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
and getting tickets for that final was the hard thing for me. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:14 | |
Liverpool all in red... | 0:33:14 | 0:33:15 | |
I'll tell you a story - we went out at Wembley to win that Cup, | 0:33:15 | 0:33:19 | |
and I said, "Listen, if it takes us four weeks to win this Cup, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
"we're going to win it" and, goodness gracious, | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
within ten minutes, Gerry Byrne had a broken collarbone. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:27 | |
And it was a heartbreaking thing, and we knew it. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
Bob Paisley come up, he said, "The collarbone's gone". | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
I said, "Oh, no". | 0:33:33 | 0:33:35 | |
And terrible pain, they should have given him all the medals. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:39 | |
So we're playing up to half-time, go in, and the trainer, Bob Paisley, | 0:33:39 | 0:33:45 | |
gets his jersey off, has a look at it, gives it a little | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
spray with something. "It's only broken." And then we go out, | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
because there were no substitutes, we go out and play the second half. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:59 | |
And so for the first time since 1947, | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
the Cup Final went into extra time. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:03 | |
Roger scored, and then Billy Bremner scored a smashing goal, | 0:34:05 | 0:34:13 | |
and then I got the goal with a header from Ian Callaghan's cross. | 0:34:13 | 0:34:19 | |
St John made no mistake this time! | 0:34:19 | 0:34:21 | |
And that was it then, we were hanging on with nine minutes to go. | 0:34:26 | 0:34:30 | |
Nine minutes never dragged like that, but finally they did it, | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
and all the fans who'd lived their lives without ever winning the Cup | 0:34:35 | 0:34:40 | |
at Liverpool, get what they'd wanted all the time. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:46 | |
And, of course, the boss, to win it... | 0:34:50 | 0:34:52 | |
If he had never won another thing, that was it. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
The euphoria in London after that. It was just... You couldn't... | 0:34:57 | 0:35:01 | |
You couldn't go through it again. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
And then when that happened, everything seemed to change. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:11 | |
Only later on you realise what the team's done, you know, | 0:35:15 | 0:35:20 | |
like, coming back on | 0:35:20 | 0:35:22 | |
the Sunday seeing all the supporters when we got back to Liverpool. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
You can sense the sheer vitality of these Liverpudlians | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
as they massed in uncountable numbers... | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
I've never seen so many people, you know, | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
they were hanging off buildings, lights and everything. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:40 | |
Even when The Beatles came back and did a tour, when they were | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
at the height of their fame, they didn't get as many people as we got. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
Unbelievable. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:49 | |
Oh, yeah, the 1965 FA Cup win was the pinnacle really, because | 0:35:51 | 0:35:57 | |
Liverpool had tried for 73 years to win the FA Cup and never had done. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:02 | |
So, for this man to come along and take them to the Holy Grail, | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
which it then was, the FA Cup, was huge. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
And even though they won the league each side of the FA Cup, | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
they had won the league before but they'd never won the FA Cup | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
and it really changed Shankly's persona in the eyes of the fans, | 0:36:15 | 0:36:21 | |
because this man was then the man who'd led them to the promised land. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:25 | |
Well, in all honesty, he had a Scottish accent but if he wasn't | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
a Scouser in another life - that's the best way I can sum him up. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
Everything that we were or we think we are, that was Shankly. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:39 | |
And being a good socialist helps with me, like, you know what I mean? | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
He was actually part of the fans, should we say. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:48 | |
He wasn't in any way detached and he enjoyed the success with the fans. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:54 | |
More than anything else he just got everyone up for it. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
They were really up for it, you know, | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
and everyone kind of bonded together and he was just one of the people. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:03 | |
He was just one of the people, but like a leader of the people, really. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
Yeah, I mean, his link with the people, | 0:37:08 | 0:37:10 | |
with the fans was quite incredible. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:12 | |
His house in Bellefield Avenue, | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
he actually had the front garden paved over because | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
so many people knocked on his door and they'd always get invited in. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:22 | |
That's it there, I recognise it immediately. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:26 | |
This used to be grass, basically, but because of people coming | 0:37:26 | 0:37:31 | |
and knocking on the door all the time, it literally just wore | 0:37:31 | 0:37:35 | |
away so, at some point, my gran just asked him to sort it out. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:40 | |
People have got stories, so many stories about coming to | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
the door and him inviting them in or always being very welcoming. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:49 | |
You know, football without people, without people watching, | 0:37:49 | 0:37:52 | |
without supporters, is absolutely nothing. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:56 | |
I mean, there's no noise, there's no enthusiasm, | 0:37:56 | 0:37:59 | |
there's no shouting, there's no passion. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
There's nothing. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:02 | |
So, for him, all of that, and being accessible to the people who | 0:38:02 | 0:38:06 | |
would come and watch faithfully, was kind of really, really important. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:11 | |
You know, that was where the joy, the passion came from. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
There's simply no way nowadays of keeping this huge Merseyside | 0:38:15 | 0:38:19 | |
city out of the headlines. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:20 | |
So that's the memories that people have. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
Not just the players but all the fans and then, of course, on | 0:38:26 | 0:38:30 | |
the Tuesday night we're here to play the semifinal of the European Cup. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:34 | |
# ..and the sweet silver song of a lark... # | 0:38:37 | 0:38:40 | |
At the age of 11, one of my abiding memories | 0:38:42 | 0:38:47 | |
was 1965. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
We'd just become FA Cup winners for the first time | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
and we were playing the great Inter Milan at Anfield. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
You couldn't get a ticket for love nor money. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
How my mum did it, I don't know, | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
but she got three tickets and we were right on the front row. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:06 | |
# ..with hope in your hearts and you'll never walk alone... # | 0:39:06 | 0:39:12 | |
The gates had been closed by about 5.15, | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
so many people wanted to go to that game, | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
and we were all on the Kop and all the Kop was chanting "We want | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
to see the cup, we want to see the cup," | 0:39:22 | 0:39:24 | |
and Shankly has this brainwave. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:26 | |
Gerry Byrne, with his arm in a sling, and Gordon Milne, | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
who missed the final because he was injured, parade the cup. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:35 | |
And it's one of the highlights of anybody's career | 0:39:39 | 0:39:45 | |
to see that and remember it. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:48 | |
I'm getting nostalgic about remembering it. | 0:39:48 | 0:39:51 | |
The lads went out to a packed house. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
And we're playing against THE great team, Inter Milan, | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
who were probably the best team in Europe at that time. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:03 | |
Shanks had us believing this was our time, this was the team, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:07 | |
and it was just an absolute wonderful spectacle. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:12 | |
I scored in the fourth minute to start it off. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:18 | |
The crowd were absolutely... I've never heard a crowd like that. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:25 | |
Hunt. A goal. A great goal, a great goal by Hunt. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
And I remember he done this celebration which he | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
jumped in the air and twirled in the air. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
We were all doing it at school the following week, | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
it was something that hadn't been seen, a celebration like that, | 0:40:35 | 0:40:38 | |
and I remember it vividly. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:41 | |
..and that could put Liverpool in the final. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
To beat that team with our team at the time, which was just | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
growing, was just incredible. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:49 | |
Had we beaten Milan over there, and got through, | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
we could have won the European Cup. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:57 | |
Shanks would have been the first manager to do that. | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
It would have been great for him and I think about that, | 0:41:00 | 0:41:03 | |
then I think "Did we let you down, boss?" | 0:41:03 | 0:41:07 | |
But that was out of our hands, really, | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
the Milan game in Milan, when we were cheated out of it. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:14 | |
The replay, Shankly was very angry | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
because there were a number of dubious goals. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
The ball was kicked out of Tommy Lawrence's hand, there was | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
a free kick which was supposed to be indirect | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
but they scored directly from it and the referee had allowed it. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
The referee was said to have been bribed. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
Shanks was told, "You'll not win this game over there. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:40 | |
"You'll not win this game with this referee," and it was a fact, | 0:41:40 | 0:41:45 | |
without a doubt, he had been got at. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
We were very disappointed about that | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
because we thought we were going to win it, you know. | 0:41:53 | 0:41:58 | |
But we got beat and you can't take it back, but, yeah, I think | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
we got a raw deal. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:06 | |
But the boss went on and we were still picking up trophies. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:14 | |
It got to the stage where it was a team, you know. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:19 | |
Everybody was aware of what was going on. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
The players were brought up not to worry, not you to worry | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
as an individual too much because we wouldn't expect you just yourself | 0:42:25 | 0:42:30 | |
to win the game. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:31 | |
We want not only to share the ball, | 0:42:31 | 0:42:33 | |
share the game, but to share the worries and all. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:35 | |
BAGPIPES PLAY | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
You know, obviously, we've come to Glenbuck. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
For me, it's a very emotional occasion. Shankly's spiritual home. | 0:42:56 | 0:43:02 | |
I think it's a testimony to what he meant to people, | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 | |
so many people here and people made the effort to come here. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
You know, we came here for the 50th anniversary of the Cup Final and I | 0:43:09 | 0:43:13 | |
was probably too young to appreciate it but I remember my dad was | 0:43:13 | 0:43:18 | |
at the match, I remember him coming home from Wembley, and my grandad, | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
who first took me to the match and lived in Granton Road opposite the | 0:43:22 | 0:43:27 | |
Kop, when he found out they'd won the cup my grandad burst into tears | 0:43:27 | 0:43:30 | |
and I think that was the reaction for a lot of people in Liverpool. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:34 | |
Bill Shankly said it was his proudest moment. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:38 | |
When you get to Glenbuck, you know, there's an eerie silence there, | 0:43:38 | 0:43:42 | |
but you think this is his village and this is what chiselled him | 0:43:42 | 0:43:47 | |
into the man he was. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:49 | |
He was infallible, you know, to us. | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
Looking back on it now, obviously he was a human being | 0:43:52 | 0:43:55 | |
but we elevate it to something else. | 0:43:55 | 0:43:57 | |
This is not just football, this is more than that. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
Bill Shankly died 30-odd years ago | 0:44:02 | 0:44:04 | |
and his spirit lives on, and when we started the Spirit Of Shankly that | 0:44:04 | 0:44:09 | |
was the idea behind that, because we wanted to keep his ideology alive. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
Years of disconnect now between Liverpool Football Club | 0:44:20 | 0:44:24 | |
and the local community | 0:44:24 | 0:44:25 | |
because, basically, you can't afford to go any more, you know. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:28 | |
Our sport is football, as working class people, and I'm not | 0:44:28 | 0:44:30 | |
ashamed to say I'm working class, I'm quite proud of that. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:33 | |
Now, obviously it's been taken out of our hands at the moment | 0:44:33 | 0:44:36 | |
by greedy people, basically, who've got involved in football | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
because of the money that's involved. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
When Shankly came, | 0:44:43 | 0:44:44 | |
the clubs on Merseyside were still rooted in the community. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
Obviously now it's a global brand, | 0:44:48 | 0:44:50 | |
but I think Shankly would be shaking his head saying, you know, | 0:44:50 | 0:44:56 | |
you should keep those links with the community otherwise you've | 0:44:56 | 0:44:58 | |
lost your soul. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
I think it's probably kicked in since '92, as well, | 0:45:01 | 0:45:03 | |
when the Premier League was formed. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
Obviously the huge swathes of money that have come into the game now | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
have made the clubs conglomerate businesses, basically. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
Luckily enough, there's enough of us still around to try and make it | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
better for future generations but we need to get the clubs back to being | 0:45:13 | 0:45:18 | |
community-based, I think, and that's why we're doing the protest at the | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
moment, you know, we're trying to get it back to somewhere like that. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
It's going to be a hard slog. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:25 | |
No, I agree with you, but I think that the game moves on, | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
it does change. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
I'm not sure how Bill Shankly would find it today, | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
he'd probably be a bit wound up with how it works now | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
but we all do talk about the corporate side of football and | 0:45:38 | 0:45:41 | |
the business side of it, it's run like a business, | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
and I think sometimes | 0:45:44 | 0:45:45 | |
that is lost, that at the end of the day it's a game of football. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
Ticket prices now is a big thing, the way we treat supporters. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
It feels like a lot of the time it's any which way you can to extract | 0:45:51 | 0:45:56 | |
more money from supporters - kits, season tickets, | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
tickets for away games, travel, whatever it may be, | 0:45:59 | 0:46:03 | |
it feels like it's a constant sort of charge on the man | 0:46:03 | 0:46:05 | |
on the street, who, without them, what would football be? | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
I mean, football is about being with your friends, having a laugh, | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
going to the match, and it's sort of something you build up over | 0:46:14 | 0:46:17 | |
the years and you take your children then and it's kind of important. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:21 | |
It keeps the communities together, and if they are just | 0:46:21 | 0:46:25 | |
treated as customers then that's definitely not what my grandad was | 0:46:25 | 0:46:30 | |
about and that's not what he wanted Liverpool Football Club to be about. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:34 | |
Being in Liverpool in the 1960s was the greatest place on earth. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:44 | |
We had the football, whether you were red or whether you were blue, | 0:46:44 | 0:46:48 | |
we had the two best football teams in the country, | 0:46:48 | 0:46:51 | |
and we had the music. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:52 | |
You felt like the spotlight of the world was on Liverpool. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:56 | |
It was a marvellous place to be, yeah, it was. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
# Our day will come | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
# And we'll have everything | 0:47:12 | 0:47:16 | |
# We'll share the joy... # | 0:47:18 | 0:47:20 | |
I think I was lucky, lucky to be there at the right time, you know. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:26 | |
I was very lucky. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:27 | |
It was a great time to be a Scouser. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
You know, it was incredible, | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
28,000 on the Kop singing The Beatles' songs, taking | 0:47:36 | 0:47:41 | |
Gerry And The Pacemakers' You'll Never Walk Alone as their anthem. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:44 | |
It was astonishing. | 0:47:46 | 0:47:47 | |
Saturday's weather perfect for an historic Scouse occasion. | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
They would be the champions of England | 0:47:51 | 0:47:53 | |
and they wanted their own people to see them become so. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
They care so much about football. | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
# She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah... # | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
When you seen the Kop in full flow, | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
and you were in there as part of that flow, you could | 0:48:06 | 0:48:10 | |
feel that energy, and I think | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
one of the best comments you can | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
make about Bill Shankly is that he was able to bring that energy out | 0:48:16 | 0:48:20 | |
and transform it into his team and onto the terraces and everybody | 0:48:20 | 0:48:26 | |
wanted to be part of the Shankly revolution, and I was no different. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:31 | |
Natural enthusiasm, that's the whole thing. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
It's the greatest thing in the world, natural enthusiasm. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
You're nothing without it. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
I used to dream about playing for Liverpool, every night. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:45 | |
It was a dream I never ever thought would come true | 0:48:45 | 0:48:47 | |
because there was only a handful of black players playing | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
professional football and I remember, | 0:48:51 | 0:48:54 | |
through the school holidays, we used to always go to Melwood | 0:48:54 | 0:48:59 | |
and climb on the walls to watch Liverpool train, and he'd come out. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
He'd come out onto the road. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
"How come you lot aren't in school?" | 0:49:05 | 0:49:08 | |
And he'd say to us in that dulcet Scottish accent, | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
"Make sure you get your education, you need your education | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
"if you want to play for Liverpool." | 0:49:14 | 0:49:16 | |
And this was like this is your invitation, | 0:49:16 | 0:49:18 | |
if you want to play for Liverpool, but you need your education. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
Unbelievable. Unbelievable that a man of that stature and he come out. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
He was very intense, you know, about football. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
He loved the supporters and he didn't like us letting them down. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:35 | |
If we got beat or whatever, he took it personally. | 0:49:35 | 0:49:39 | |
And he spoke and the whole city just shut up and listened | 0:49:41 | 0:49:46 | |
and he spoke to their hearts and they understood what | 0:49:46 | 0:49:50 | |
he was talking about and they really did idolise the guy. | 0:49:50 | 0:49:53 | |
It was just an amazing experience and that was just an offshoot of, | 0:49:54 | 0:49:58 | |
he's still a football manager, | 0:49:58 | 0:50:01 | |
and at the time he could have done anything. | 0:50:01 | 0:50:04 | |
In our language there's words that are similarity, you know, | 0:50:04 | 0:50:07 | |
they're spelt differently but they mean the same thing. | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
And there's words that mean the same thing | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
but the big men use these words, knowing full well that maybe | 0:50:13 | 0:50:17 | |
10% of the viewers will understand what he means. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
Well, we don't. We speak the language that everybody understands. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:26 | |
Instead of me saying someone was avaricious, | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
I would say he was bloody greedy. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
I mean, his bark was worse than his bite. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:38 | |
He was a bit soft underneath. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
It's hard, if you try to get rid of somebody, it's not easy, is it? | 0:50:43 | 0:50:49 | |
You know, like Shankly in my situation, | 0:50:50 | 0:50:54 | |
because I had a great time there, and I owed a lot to him, | 0:50:54 | 0:51:00 | |
and it was difficult for him to let me go. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
Bob Paisley said that one of the things he observed about | 0:51:04 | 0:51:08 | |
Bill Shankly was his loyalty to players | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
and he said, "You can be too loyal." | 0:51:10 | 0:51:11 | |
He was in a place just down the corridor and Bob Paisley said, | 0:51:13 | 0:51:20 | |
"The boss wants to see you." | 0:51:20 | 0:51:23 | |
So, you're walking down thinking, "What does the boss want?" | 0:51:23 | 0:51:28 | |
And then, when he started talking, his first thing was, | 0:51:28 | 0:51:34 | |
"How do you think you're playing?" | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
And I said, "I think I'm playing well," you know, | 0:51:37 | 0:51:42 | |
because I wasn't playing all that well. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:44 | |
"Hmmm." Didn't know what to say. He said, "Oh. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:49 | |
"The directors don't think you're playing well." | 0:51:49 | 0:51:53 | |
I said, "Well, how long is it | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
"since you've started taking notice of directors?" | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
And he said, "You're bloody right, son! | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
"You go and get changed." | 0:52:02 | 0:52:05 | |
But that was the beginning, you know, he'd warned me there. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:09 | |
He had this great affiliation with the players who'd done him | 0:52:10 | 0:52:16 | |
proud throughout the mid-'60s, | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
who'd done all these great things, bringing the first FA Cup. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:22 | |
So to have to change that must have hurt him a lot | 0:52:22 | 0:52:26 | |
but he knew that he had to do it because they'd all come to a point. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:30 | |
It was as though it was like a brick wall - bam, | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
hit it, I have to do this and this is going to hurt me. | 0:52:32 | 0:52:36 | |
Some of the great players all started to move on and I was, | 0:52:36 | 0:52:42 | |
if you want, at the hub of it | 0:52:42 | 0:52:43 | |
because I'd just signed in '69 as an apprentice, so you were seeing this | 0:52:43 | 0:52:48 | |
team evolve now with these younger players being given a chance. | 0:52:48 | 0:52:53 | |
So it was like a new spark again and it was, again, | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
a great place to be and to be part of it | 0:52:57 | 0:52:59 | |
and I was on the inside witnessing what was going on. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:03 | |
CROWD: Toshack! Toshack! | 0:53:03 | 0:53:06 | |
At that time, I was £110,000, | 0:53:07 | 0:53:10 | |
it was a record signing. | 0:53:10 | 0:53:12 | |
Doesn't seem like it now, I mean they earn more than that a day now. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:16 | |
Fortunately, as I'd done with Cardiff, I scored in front | 0:53:16 | 0:53:22 | |
of the Kop, my first game against Everton. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
A game that we won 3-2 after being 2-0 down at half time, | 0:53:25 | 0:53:29 | |
so that got me off on the right foot, you know, with the Kopites | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
and with Shanks and, as I mentioned to you earlier, we were all young | 0:53:32 | 0:53:36 | |
lads who came from lower divisions and he just pieced us together. | 0:53:36 | 0:53:40 | |
Didn't work or tell us about our bad points, | 0:53:40 | 0:53:44 | |
just pushed forward our good points and put us | 0:53:44 | 0:53:48 | |
into areas of the field where we would be able to perform and gel | 0:53:48 | 0:53:53 | |
together as a team, and coached us and trained us so that we were fit. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:58 | |
If you want to fix your taps, you send for a plumber, | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
if you want to fix your electrics, you send for an electrician. | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
We had specialist places for these players. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:07 | |
We didn't complicate them, we gave them something that was, | 0:54:07 | 0:54:10 | |
basically, easy to understand. | 0:54:10 | 0:54:13 | |
And this is what football's all about, it's really a simple game. | 0:54:13 | 0:54:17 | |
CROWD: Kevin Keegan! Kevin Keegan! | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
Would you welcome the chance to move on to another club? | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
It depends what sort of club, really. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:28 | |
I remember my manager, Ron Ashman, at Scunthorpe, picking me | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
up in his car. | 0:54:35 | 0:54:37 | |
I had a new suit that I'd bought and obviously I knew a little bit about | 0:54:37 | 0:54:41 | |
him because Liverpool were starting to get a big club, and he was... | 0:54:41 | 0:54:46 | |
But I didn't really know him, | 0:54:46 | 0:54:47 | |
and he was fantastic from the minute I met him, you know. | 0:54:47 | 0:54:51 | |
He just came out and said "Son, welcome to Liverpool, | 0:54:51 | 0:54:54 | |
"the best club in England, maybe the world." | 0:54:54 | 0:54:58 | |
I can remember him saying that. | 0:54:58 | 0:54:59 | |
He was saying, "We get 26,000 people | 0:54:59 | 0:55:01 | |
"standing behind that goal, son." | 0:55:01 | 0:55:03 | |
I was playing in front of 3,000 people in the whole stadium | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
but, to be honest with you, I was such a small signing in | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
the scheme of things that it just went | 0:55:11 | 0:55:13 | |
right under the radar, you know. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
I wasn't supposed to be a player for the time present, | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
I was one for the future, maybe. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:21 | |
Well, I found out about Kevin Keegan from Andrew Beattie, | 0:55:21 | 0:55:25 | |
who used to be manager at Huddersfield Town | 0:55:25 | 0:55:29 | |
and Peter Doherty, who was scouting then for Preston North End, | 0:55:29 | 0:55:32 | |
was on about him too and I thought, "Christ, they can't both be wrong". | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
He was first in everything. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:37 | |
Oh, he was a fantastic little fella and I've never seen such enthusiasm. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:42 | |
You could tell right from the start he was out to prove a point. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
You know, from his humble background, hard brought up, father | 0:55:45 | 0:55:49 | |
a miner and all that, and this was the kind of background | 0:55:49 | 0:55:53 | |
I had an' all. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:54 | |
So Keegan, right from the start, didn't want to lose, was a winner. | 0:55:55 | 0:56:01 | |
He's one of the great signings anyone's ever made, I think, | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
Kevin Keegan. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:06 | |
Originally, strangely enough, | 0:56:06 | 0:56:07 | |
he was going to replace Ian Callaghan in midfield. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:11 | |
That's how they saw Kevin and it was a sheer accident that, just before | 0:56:11 | 0:56:16 | |
the start of the '71/'72 season, they had a practice match and they | 0:56:16 | 0:56:22 | |
put Kevin up front alongside John Toshack and it was a revelation. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
Keegan, Shankly did have this father and son relationship. | 0:56:28 | 0:56:33 | |
I was in the reserve team in pre-season | 0:56:33 | 0:56:35 | |
when Kevin had first come, and I remember playing at Southport | 0:56:35 | 0:56:40 | |
and Ronnie Moran was the reserve team manager. | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
And he's gone like that. The game was 0-0 at half time, | 0:56:44 | 0:56:48 | |
Keegan's come in, he's only just joined the club - long hair, | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
which was, like, forbidden, and we were all like that | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
"Oh, Reuben Bennett will tell you you've got to get your hair cut." | 0:56:54 | 0:56:57 | |
He says, "Nobody tells me to get my hair cut, | 0:56:57 | 0:56:59 | |
"I decide," and I was like... And he did, he kept to that. | 0:56:59 | 0:57:03 | |
And we played and, at half time, | 0:57:03 | 0:57:05 | |
Ronnie Moran was, like, we never looked like scoring. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:08 | |
So Keegan comes in, he goes, "We're never going to score a goal, | 0:57:08 | 0:57:11 | |
"never going to score a goal". | 0:57:11 | 0:57:12 | |
Kevin was more of an attacking midfield player and he said | 0:57:12 | 0:57:15 | |
"Oh, do you think you can do better?" | 0:57:15 | 0:57:17 | |
And he said, "Yeah, I can," and we were all like that, "Wow." | 0:57:17 | 0:57:19 | |
And he said, "Right, you're playing up front." | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
Played up front, was different class. We won 2-0. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
Before the season started we had a First Team vs Reserves game | 0:57:27 | 0:57:32 | |
and normally the Reserves beat the First Team, that was the way | 0:57:32 | 0:57:35 | |
it was, because everybody was more pumped up. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
Keegan played in the First Team, | 0:57:37 | 0:57:39 | |
the First Team battered the Reserves. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:41 | |
He was in the team on the Saturday for the opening game of the season. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:45 | |
The first game, I'm not in the programme, | 0:57:46 | 0:57:49 | |
I had a struggle getting to the ground because the guy who | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
had the yellow jacket on, when I said, "I'm playing," he sort | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
of said to me, "Yeah, so am I, son," you know, and he turned me round. | 0:57:54 | 0:57:59 | |
So, I wasn't on the radar, so, for me, I can remember he just | 0:57:59 | 0:58:04 | |
said to me, "Just go out and drop hand grenades all over the place." | 0:58:04 | 0:58:07 | |
That was my pre-match instruction. | 0:58:07 | 0:58:09 | |
"Just go out there, son, and drop hand grenades all over the place." | 0:58:09 | 0:58:13 | |
In other words, just go wherever you want where you think you can | 0:58:13 | 0:58:15 | |
cause a problem and cause a problem then go somewhere else. | 0:58:15 | 0:58:19 | |
And, you know, I knew what he meant. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:21 | |
And the rest is history. He scored and became an icon. | 0:58:21 | 0:58:26 | |
Collective play, and playing as a team - | 0:58:27 | 0:58:31 | |
would that stifle individuals? | 0:58:31 | 0:58:33 | |
Now, the answer to this is that all the team of the '60s, all of them | 0:58:33 | 0:58:37 | |
were capped, played for their countries, by playing collectively. | 0:58:37 | 0:58:41 | |
All the 1970s team, all got capped, | 0:58:43 | 0:58:47 | |
again, by playing collectively. | 0:58:47 | 0:58:49 | |
So that was two teams, the '60s and the '70s team, ALL got | 0:58:50 | 0:58:53 | |
international caps by playing for each other. | 0:58:53 | 0:58:56 | |
You know, he created a real sense of "It's all about the team" | 0:58:57 | 0:59:02 | |
but the team went way beyond the 11 players on the football pitch. | 0:59:02 | 0:59:06 | |
He knew the name of everybody at the club, the tea lady, | 0:59:06 | 0:59:09 | |
the lady who cleaned the dressing rooms, | 0:59:09 | 0:59:12 | |
the guys as you came in, you know, he knew them all by first name. | 0:59:12 | 0:59:16 | |
He was very impressive as a person but in a very simple way. | 0:59:17 | 0:59:21 | |
He wasn't doing it to impress anybody, it was just the way he was. | 0:59:21 | 0:59:25 | |
Every sentence, every thought, everything was about football | 0:59:27 | 0:59:30 | |
and yet he had such a warm character as well and he was | 0:59:30 | 0:59:34 | |
interested in people and he made an effort to approach people and | 0:59:34 | 0:59:39 | |
a willingness to speak to people | 0:59:39 | 0:59:43 | |
about the things that mattered to them. | 0:59:43 | 0:59:46 | |
He used to mesmerize everyone, you know, | 0:59:48 | 0:59:50 | |
with his speeches after the game. | 0:59:50 | 0:59:52 | |
If we got beat, we might have been hammered, but he'd turn it round | 0:59:52 | 0:59:56 | |
to say, "We were very, very unlucky," | 0:59:56 | 0:59:58 | |
and have everyone believing him. | 0:59:58 | 1:00:00 | |
So, after winning the FA Cup in '65, | 1:00:00 | 1:00:04 | |
the next time was 1971, obviously, and we got beat but he gave us | 1:00:04 | 1:00:10 | |
the greatest speech I have ever heard in my life | 1:00:10 | 1:00:13 | |
at St George's Hall. | 1:00:13 | 1:00:15 | |
I remember seeing it - I put it on sometimes now, | 1:00:17 | 1:00:19 | |
it's a great speech - and you think | 1:00:19 | 1:00:21 | |
"Yeah, this guy, he's more than a football manager." | 1:00:21 | 1:00:25 | |
I've drummed it into our players | 1:00:25 | 1:00:29 | |
time and again that they are privileged to play for you. | 1:00:29 | 1:00:36 | |
And if they didn't believe me, they believe me now. | 1:00:38 | 1:00:43 | |
Merseyside is very community-based. | 1:00:43 | 1:00:47 | |
You knock us, we come back harder, | 1:00:47 | 1:00:49 | |
we fight, and this guy tapped into that. | 1:00:49 | 1:00:52 | |
He'd had that, he'd had a difficult upbringing, | 1:00:52 | 1:00:54 | |
and he realised the difficulties of what these people go through | 1:00:54 | 1:00:58 | |
every week and he wanted to give them a team to be proud of. | 1:00:58 | 1:01:01 | |
He did a lot more than that. | 1:01:01 | 1:01:03 | |
Well, by the '60s, they'd won the FA Cup, | 1:01:03 | 1:01:07 | |
they'd won the league title a couple of times | 1:01:07 | 1:01:10 | |
and then in 1973. they win the league again... | 1:01:10 | 1:01:15 | |
-COMMENTATOR: -It's difficult to say who admires who most there. | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
..And they also win the UEFA Cup, | 1:01:23 | 1:01:25 | |
thanks mainly to a wonderful display by young Kevin Keegan. | 1:01:25 | 1:01:29 | |
Toshack... Keegan. 2-0! | 1:01:29 | 1:01:33 | |
This was the real start of the '70s, of the new era, | 1:01:33 | 1:01:37 | |
if you like, and they'd had a little bit of a barren patch, really, | 1:01:37 | 1:01:41 | |
and the Cup Final where they got beat, | 1:01:41 | 1:01:44 | |
but it was, he knew they were coming back. | 1:01:44 | 1:01:47 | |
You know, Emlyn Hughes, | 1:01:47 | 1:01:49 | |
they had people like Steve Heighway getting into the team now. | 1:01:49 | 1:01:53 | |
Why do you think that Liverpool has such fanatical fans? | 1:01:53 | 1:01:56 | |
Why do they follow the team so closely? | 1:01:56 | 1:01:57 | |
Well, I believe it's because they identify with the manager. | 1:01:57 | 1:02:00 | |
The character of the manager goes through to the players | 1:02:00 | 1:02:03 | |
and it goes through to the fans as well. | 1:02:03 | 1:02:05 | |
There'd been a lot of replacements in the side | 1:02:05 | 1:02:08 | |
and he knew this side was just starting again. | 1:02:08 | 1:02:11 | |
It was like his second wave. | 1:02:11 | 1:02:13 | |
# We're gonna win the cup We're gonna win the league | 1:02:13 | 1:02:16 | |
# And now you're gonna believe us And now you're gonna believe us... # | 1:02:16 | 1:02:21 | |
As I said before, I was 20 years of age and I'm playing at Wembley. | 1:02:21 | 1:02:27 | |
The old Wembley Stadium, 100,000 people. | 1:02:27 | 1:02:30 | |
Shanks had us believing, "These are not going to get a kick. | 1:02:30 | 1:02:34 | |
"Youse are going to dominate this game. | 1:02:34 | 1:02:36 | |
"We are the best team here and we're going to win." | 1:02:36 | 1:02:39 | |
And now the whole of Wembley is tense and ready to greet | 1:02:39 | 1:02:44 | |
the two teams who've fought their way to this 1974 Cup Final. | 1:02:44 | 1:02:48 | |
And now they see them. | 1:02:48 | 1:02:50 | |
But we were unbelievable. | 1:02:50 | 1:02:51 | |
We played the Liverpool way that day, | 1:02:51 | 1:02:53 | |
we kept possession of the ball, with progression. | 1:02:53 | 1:02:56 | |
And Newcastle at the moment looking just a little disorganized. | 1:02:57 | 1:03:01 | |
Here's Hall, and now a chance for Keegan! And that's it! | 1:03:01 | 1:03:04 | |
Kevin Keegan has scored for Liverpool. | 1:03:04 | 1:03:06 | |
Being a young lad, 20 years of age, winning the FA Cup with | 1:03:06 | 1:03:10 | |
Liverpool, I just thought was beyond my wildest dreams. | 1:03:10 | 1:03:13 | |
Here we are, boys, that's what it's all about. | 1:03:16 | 1:03:19 | |
Yeah, we got them done, yeah. | 1:03:19 | 1:03:21 | |
And I got a league title medal in '72, '73 got a UEFA Cup medal. | 1:03:21 | 1:03:27 | |
But that FA Cup was just... | 1:03:28 | 1:03:30 | |
And then the bombshell. | 1:03:30 | 1:03:32 | |
It is with great regret that Mr Shankly has intimated that he | 1:03:33 | 1:03:38 | |
wishes to retire from active participation in league football. | 1:03:38 | 1:03:42 | |
It was a big, big surprise to all of us when he left. | 1:03:42 | 1:03:46 | |
We certainly didn't see that one coming. | 1:03:46 | 1:03:49 | |
I think there comes a time when you're a little tired, | 1:03:49 | 1:03:53 | |
a little fed up, if that's the word, | 1:03:53 | 1:03:57 | |
that you feel as if, | 1:03:57 | 1:03:59 | |
"Goodness gracious, why should I carry on?" | 1:03:59 | 1:04:02 | |
I remember someone, one of the players saying to me, | 1:04:02 | 1:04:07 | |
"Shanks has finished." | 1:04:07 | 1:04:08 | |
I said, "What do you mean, he's finished?" | 1:04:08 | 1:04:10 | |
"He's finished, he's resigned." | 1:04:10 | 1:04:12 | |
I thought, "No. | 1:04:12 | 1:04:16 | |
"No, that can't be right," but, you know, | 1:04:16 | 1:04:19 | |
he used to do it pretty regularly at the end of the season, | 1:04:19 | 1:04:22 | |
he'd go to the board | 1:04:22 | 1:04:23 | |
and say, "Look, I've had enough now," and they always used to talk | 1:04:23 | 1:04:27 | |
him round and I think they thought they could that year, '74, and | 1:04:27 | 1:04:31 | |
he just said, "No, I'm finished," | 1:04:31 | 1:04:33 | |
and it was incredible around the place. | 1:04:33 | 1:04:36 | |
It was like he'd died. | 1:04:36 | 1:04:38 | |
It was like the club had half died as well. | 1:04:38 | 1:04:40 | |
Because he used to go around saying, "The word retirement should be | 1:04:40 | 1:04:43 | |
"stricken from the dictionary," and yet there he was and retired. | 1:04:43 | 1:04:47 | |
It was a contradiction in everything he'd said. | 1:04:47 | 1:04:50 | |
-How do you feel about the news today? -What news? | 1:04:50 | 1:04:52 | |
That Shankly's retired. | 1:04:52 | 1:04:54 | |
Oh, yeah! | 1:04:54 | 1:04:56 | |
-Retired? Are you being funny? -Yeah. -Kidding you up. | 1:04:56 | 1:04:58 | |
I'm not kidding you, Shankly has actually retired today, | 1:04:58 | 1:05:03 | |
he wants a rest. | 1:05:03 | 1:05:04 | |
He's leaving. | 1:05:04 | 1:05:05 | |
They didn't believe it because we had no warning. | 1:05:05 | 1:05:09 | |
You're having me on, aren't you? | 1:05:09 | 1:05:11 | |
No, I'm not having you on, I've just been to Anfield... | 1:05:11 | 1:05:14 | |
I was with a mate of mine from school who was actually | 1:05:14 | 1:05:17 | |
about six foot odd and I was about three foot two, and you just | 1:05:17 | 1:05:20 | |
see Sid's shoulder on the thing, you know, but then it just went viral. | 1:05:20 | 1:05:26 | |
Everyone all over, by the time you got home from town and everything, | 1:05:26 | 1:05:30 | |
everyone had seen it and that was the end of that one, you know. | 1:05:30 | 1:05:34 | |
That followed you for the rest of your life, that one. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:37 | |
And this young lad in this interview captured the feelings, | 1:05:37 | 1:05:42 | |
I think, of everybody. | 1:05:42 | 1:05:44 | |
"What? We've just won the FA Cup, Liverpool, and Shanks has retired?" | 1:05:44 | 1:05:52 | |
What do you think's going to happen to the club now? | 1:05:52 | 1:05:54 | |
They'll go on but it just won't be the same without them. | 1:05:54 | 1:05:58 | |
How do you feel then, sad? | 1:05:58 | 1:05:59 | |
Terrible. | 1:06:00 | 1:06:02 | |
That became for us Liverpool fans | 1:06:02 | 1:06:05 | |
an iconic moment, | 1:06:05 | 1:06:08 | |
of just Tony Wilson | 1:06:08 | 1:06:10 | |
explaining to the fans that he'd resigned. | 1:06:10 | 1:06:13 | |
You know, you just wondered where it would all go without him | 1:06:15 | 1:06:18 | |
because he was so central to everything that was going on | 1:06:18 | 1:06:22 | |
and everyone adored him so much that you just wondered what was next. | 1:06:22 | 1:06:28 | |
I think Shanks, in the following years, | 1:06:30 | 1:06:34 | |
had realised it was probably the biggest mistake | 1:06:34 | 1:06:36 | |
of his life because I don't actually think he was ready for retirement. | 1:06:36 | 1:06:41 | |
I think he had a lot more to give, a lot more to offer, | 1:06:41 | 1:06:44 | |
and I think it damaged him. | 1:06:44 | 1:06:46 | |
All the things he'd drummed into us | 1:06:48 | 1:06:50 | |
were getting passed on to the lads in the '70s team, and they were | 1:06:50 | 1:06:55 | |
up for it and they were going to win trophies and they did win trophies. | 1:06:55 | 1:07:00 | |
But the boss was then side-lined. He side-lined himself. | 1:07:00 | 1:07:04 | |
Sometimes I feel that I did make the wrong decision but, | 1:07:07 | 1:07:13 | |
having made it, I will myself not to say nothing. | 1:07:13 | 1:07:16 | |
What are the occasions that you feel that, that it | 1:07:16 | 1:07:19 | |
was the wrong decision? | 1:07:19 | 1:07:20 | |
When are those times? | 1:07:20 | 1:07:21 | |
Oh, they come at various times. | 1:07:21 | 1:07:24 | |
It may be Saturday morning, there's a match on and you, | 1:07:24 | 1:07:30 | |
if you're manager, you're involved, you're alive and alight | 1:07:30 | 1:07:33 | |
and you're all, you know, it's something, you know, the big match. | 1:07:33 | 1:07:38 | |
A feeling you can't really describe to people. | 1:07:38 | 1:07:40 | |
He was a king without a kingdom once he'd retired, and the added layered | 1:07:40 | 1:07:45 | |
problem was that Liverpool had said, "Look, Bill," - they went on bended | 1:07:45 | 1:07:49 | |
knee to try and keep him - but they said, "If you retire, it's got to | 1:07:49 | 1:07:52 | |
"be a clean break because you're such | 1:07:52 | 1:07:54 | |
"a powerful figure at this club." | 1:07:54 | 1:07:56 | |
Like Matt Busby was at Manchester United and sort of dwarfed | 1:07:56 | 1:07:59 | |
managers that followed Matt. They said, | 1:07:59 | 1:08:02 | |
"If you go, it's got to be a clean break." | 1:08:02 | 1:08:05 | |
This is a very, very sensitive subject | 1:08:06 | 1:08:10 | |
and a most difficult one, and it was for us players at the time. | 1:08:10 | 1:08:14 | |
Shanks made this decision to walk away but, when we got down there | 1:08:15 | 1:08:22 | |
the first day of pre-season, who's the first voice to greet you? | 1:08:22 | 1:08:27 | |
Bill Shankly. | 1:08:27 | 1:08:28 | |
And we'd all walk in, and what would our - which you would expect, | 1:08:28 | 1:08:32 | |
"Morning Boss. Morning Boss." | 1:08:32 | 1:08:34 | |
Everybody's walking past, "Morning Boss". | 1:08:34 | 1:08:36 | |
So, of course, Bob Paisley's got to come into that scenario | 1:08:36 | 1:08:40 | |
day after day, so, as much I'd loved Shanks, I think | 1:08:40 | 1:08:47 | |
Bob Paisley was put in an extremely difficult position. | 1:08:47 | 1:08:50 | |
Probably could have been handled a bit better. | 1:08:50 | 1:08:53 | |
How, I don't know, | 1:08:54 | 1:08:56 | |
but it started to create this bad feeling between the club and Shanks. | 1:08:56 | 1:09:02 | |
Particularly that first year, because Bob didn't win anything, | 1:09:02 | 1:09:05 | |
we didn't win anything that first year, so it was a most | 1:09:05 | 1:09:09 | |
difficult time for him, but Shanks had laid those foundations. | 1:09:09 | 1:09:14 | |
And it seems to me that it got to the stage where he didn't know | 1:09:16 | 1:09:23 | |
whether he was welcome or not back and that was very, very sad. | 1:09:23 | 1:09:27 | |
It was badly handled, is the answer to your question. | 1:09:27 | 1:09:29 | |
What the answer to it was, with a character like Bill Shankly, | 1:09:29 | 1:09:32 | |
with a personality like Bill Shankly, you know, the boss, | 1:09:32 | 1:09:36 | |
he wouldn't have accepted charity, but they should have given him | 1:09:36 | 1:09:42 | |
some position at that club forever, you know, and they didn't. | 1:09:42 | 1:09:46 | |
I've never understood it and I never will. | 1:09:46 | 1:09:49 | |
I remember one day Shanks turned up at Melwood and pulled me to one | 1:09:51 | 1:09:57 | |
side, then he said to me, "Don't be dribbling the ball up to defenders, | 1:09:57 | 1:10:01 | |
"just knock it past them because they're not going to catch you." | 1:10:01 | 1:10:04 | |
Needless to say again, I tried it on the Saturday and scored a hat-trick. | 1:10:04 | 1:10:09 | |
And the next time I seen him again, and I think it was the last | 1:10:09 | 1:10:14 | |
time we seen him at Melwood, and I just said to him, "Thank you very | 1:10:14 | 1:10:18 | |
"much for that advice, Mr Shankly, because it worked well for me." | 1:10:18 | 1:10:23 | |
He says, "Aye, son, I know a little bit about football." | 1:10:23 | 1:10:27 | |
And that was it. | 1:10:27 | 1:10:28 | |
Maybe he thought he could still be involved in some way | 1:10:31 | 1:10:33 | |
and he didn't think it was just going to be a complete break. | 1:10:33 | 1:10:36 | |
I don't think he thought it through very, very well. | 1:10:36 | 1:10:38 | |
I think probably there was some pressure as well | 1:10:38 | 1:10:40 | |
from my grandmother but I don't think, you know, because people | 1:10:40 | 1:10:43 | |
said he stopped for his family, I don't think that was 100% the case, | 1:10:43 | 1:10:48 | |
I think there were other factors and it was probably | 1:10:48 | 1:10:50 | |
like everything, you know, | 1:10:50 | 1:10:52 | |
there's more than one thing to consider when somebody | 1:10:52 | 1:10:55 | |
takes such a big decision, but I think he completely regretted it. | 1:10:55 | 1:11:00 | |
I really do believe that. | 1:11:00 | 1:11:01 | |
He realised, I think, that he couldn't live without it. | 1:11:01 | 1:11:04 | |
What about the offers you've received, the offers of jobs? | 1:11:06 | 1:11:08 | |
When I was manager we didn't do too bad but I'm wiser now | 1:11:08 | 1:11:12 | |
and I don't think you can buy the experience I've got. | 1:11:12 | 1:11:15 | |
And I don't think you can buy the inborn gift that I've got. | 1:11:15 | 1:11:18 | |
I can help people, I'm certain of that. | 1:11:18 | 1:11:21 | |
So he was going round other clubs, you know, | 1:11:22 | 1:11:25 | |
and trying to, you know, | 1:11:25 | 1:11:27 | |
"Can I help you sometimes?" | 1:11:27 | 1:11:29 | |
and they didn't want him. | 1:11:29 | 1:11:31 | |
So, I think... He regretted it, I think, | 1:11:31 | 1:11:34 | |
because he could have still gone on | 1:11:34 | 1:11:37 | |
but he might have thought, "I'll go out at the top." | 1:11:37 | 1:11:40 | |
Which I did. | 1:11:42 | 1:11:44 | |
Well, I'd been in the game a long time as a player and a manager. | 1:11:50 | 1:11:54 | |
As a manager, of course, it was a hard task. | 1:11:54 | 1:11:57 | |
I started at the bottom but I came to Liverpool where | 1:11:57 | 1:12:00 | |
the potential was tremendous, that was the only reason | 1:12:00 | 1:12:04 | |
because it was similar to Glasgow and the Scottish people. | 1:12:04 | 1:12:07 | |
But I got to a point when I'd fought the battles. | 1:12:07 | 1:12:11 | |
You see, in football, you fight on the field to win | 1:12:11 | 1:12:13 | |
but you've got battles to fight inside, political battles, to come | 1:12:13 | 1:12:17 | |
here and try and prove to the directors, try and make them think | 1:12:17 | 1:12:23 | |
along the same lines as me of the potential there was for Liverpool. | 1:12:23 | 1:12:28 | |
Because, candidly, it was a kind of shambles of a place. | 1:12:28 | 1:12:31 | |
I'd fought the battles | 1:12:31 | 1:12:36 | |
inside and outside, and was only interested in | 1:12:36 | 1:12:40 | |
one thing, success for the club and that meant success for the people. | 1:12:40 | 1:12:45 | |
I was only in the game for the love of the game, the results | 1:12:45 | 1:12:48 | |
for the club, make the people happy, because, at the end of the day | 1:12:48 | 1:12:51 | |
as I said, you asked me a question, "Why did you love Liverpool?" | 1:12:51 | 1:12:53 | |
I loved Liverpool because I was manager of Liverpool, I was | 1:12:53 | 1:12:56 | |
the manager, and that was the satisfaction I got. | 1:12:56 | 1:13:00 | |
Not that I was gloating about it, but I had won. | 1:13:00 | 1:13:03 | |
It couldn't have happened to a better man. | 1:13:03 | 1:13:06 | |
But, you know, unlike Leeds when Don Revie left, they promoted | 1:13:10 | 1:13:13 | |
from within and, of course, Bob was very close to Bill Shankly. | 1:13:13 | 1:13:18 | |
Not the same character, but with the same beliefs | 1:13:18 | 1:13:21 | |
and the same things and that was very clever | 1:13:21 | 1:13:23 | |
because Leeds brought in Clough, and he tried to change everything | 1:13:23 | 1:13:27 | |
and there was nothing much wrong at Leeds, Leeds were a great side. | 1:13:27 | 1:13:31 | |
Whereas Bob knew, being inside, that we were still a great side so he | 1:13:31 | 1:13:36 | |
just let the ship sail on and took it to new heights, if we're honest. | 1:13:36 | 1:13:40 | |
I was fortunate enough to be captain of the club at the time. | 1:13:55 | 1:13:59 | |
I'm walking up them steps | 1:13:59 | 1:14:01 | |
to pick the European Cup up, and I'm thinking to myself, "We've won it | 1:14:01 | 1:14:07 | |
"but Shanks really won it," because Shanks made Liverpool a club. | 1:14:07 | 1:14:12 | |
It must have been really difficult, I think, almost like he'd been | 1:14:14 | 1:14:18 | |
maybe shoved aside, but I think everything would have balanced | 1:14:18 | 1:14:24 | |
out maybe afterwards because of the love that people showed him, | 1:14:24 | 1:14:28 | |
because of the respect that the supporters showed him always. | 1:14:28 | 1:14:32 | |
And, even Everton, he went to Everton to watch matches | 1:14:34 | 1:14:37 | |
and he tried to keep it in his life as much as possible | 1:14:37 | 1:14:41 | |
because that was his life. | 1:14:41 | 1:14:43 | |
He was aware, I think he was well aware, of his place in history | 1:14:49 | 1:14:53 | |
and he's well aware of the love that the fans have for him. | 1:14:53 | 1:14:56 | |
The fans would never have treated him | 1:14:58 | 1:14:59 | |
the way that maybe the directors treated him | 1:14:59 | 1:15:02 | |
but, you know, Shankly had the connection with the fans and | 1:15:02 | 1:15:07 | |
the players, | 1:15:07 | 1:15:08 | |
didn't have that connection with the directors or the owners. | 1:15:08 | 1:15:11 | |
I feel that the family owe the Liverpool supporters a lot | 1:15:11 | 1:15:15 | |
because I think he was very unhappy when he left Liverpool | 1:15:15 | 1:15:18 | |
and they made things better for him. | 1:15:18 | 1:15:21 | |
There's a picture of him where it's the Kop, it's | 1:15:21 | 1:15:25 | |
a very atmospheric kind of photo but for him it was like he standing | 1:15:25 | 1:15:31 | |
with the people he would have chosen to stand with | 1:15:31 | 1:15:34 | |
all the time, you know. | 1:15:34 | 1:15:36 | |
Well, I went in the Kop because I promised I would go in | 1:15:36 | 1:15:39 | |
and I went in and I enjoyed it. | 1:15:39 | 1:15:42 | |
I didn't go in for bravado or anything like that. | 1:15:42 | 1:15:46 | |
No, I went in amongst them because I played for them and I was their man. | 1:15:47 | 1:15:52 | |
Not only the Kop, Anfield Road and the Paddock | 1:15:53 | 1:15:55 | |
and the Kemlyn Road Stand and all the stands. | 1:15:55 | 1:15:57 | |
And all of Anfield. | 1:15:57 | 1:15:59 | |
So I went in the Kop | 1:15:59 | 1:16:00 | |
because I had promised a man I would go into the Kop. | 1:16:00 | 1:16:03 | |
He was a Kopite. | 1:16:03 | 1:16:04 | |
We stand behind the goal, and someone was shouting, | 1:16:07 | 1:16:10 | |
"Shankly's over there," and we're going, "No, no chance." | 1:16:10 | 1:16:13 | |
But he was, he was over there. | 1:16:13 | 1:16:16 | |
He absolutely got hounded to death, people were jumping all over him. | 1:16:16 | 1:16:19 | |
He couldn't have enjoyed the match because people were just | 1:16:19 | 1:16:23 | |
dancing all around him and he | 1:16:23 | 1:16:25 | |
mustn't have been able to see anything. | 1:16:25 | 1:16:27 | |
But I think he was making a statement, | 1:16:27 | 1:16:30 | |
he was making a statement saying, "I'm one of you. | 1:16:30 | 1:16:35 | |
"And I always will be one of you. | 1:16:35 | 1:16:36 | |
"Even though I've retired | 1:16:36 | 1:16:38 | |
"and I'm no longer employed by Liverpool, I'm one of you." | 1:16:38 | 1:16:41 | |
# He was born in bonnie Scotland | 1:16:42 | 1:16:47 | |
# And he played the football game | 1:16:47 | 1:16:52 | |
# He came to Liverpool in '59 | 1:16:52 | 1:16:56 | |
# To help us win again | 1:16:56 | 1:17:00 | |
# And with his mighty red army | 1:17:01 | 1:17:05 | |
# He marched to victory | 1:17:05 | 1:17:09 | |
# He was a legend in his time | 1:17:09 | 1:17:14 | |
# Our hero Bill Shankly | 1:17:14 | 1:17:18 | |
# So, all say thanks to the Shanks | 1:17:18 | 1:17:23 | |
# He'll never walk alone | 1:17:23 | 1:17:27 | |
# They'll sing a song for all the world | 1:17:27 | 1:17:31 | |
# In this his Liverpool home. # | 1:17:31 | 1:17:35 | |
Well, the day he died was so poignant and tragic and sad, | 1:17:43 | 1:17:48 | |
the flag on the Town Hall flew at half mast. | 1:17:48 | 1:17:52 | |
It really was, the whole city mourned, | 1:17:52 | 1:17:54 | |
red and blue disappeared, it was Merseyside united | 1:17:54 | 1:17:58 | |
and not just Merseyside, I think the whole country. | 1:17:58 | 1:18:01 | |
I think it was a symbol of what Bill had achieved that he | 1:18:01 | 1:18:04 | |
transcended football so, first, when Bill Shankly quit people | 1:18:04 | 1:18:09 | |
couldn't believe it, but when he died, it was like a national loss. | 1:18:09 | 1:18:13 | |
It felt like a member of your family had passed away. | 1:18:14 | 1:18:18 | |
He died, I don't know, presumably early in the week | 1:18:18 | 1:18:21 | |
and we played Swansea at home on the Saturday and | 1:18:21 | 1:18:26 | |
we kicked off about 11.00, 11.30 in the morning, and Swansea in those | 1:18:26 | 1:18:30 | |
days were managed by John Toshack, who obviously had played for Shanks, | 1:18:30 | 1:18:35 | |
and everything like that. And it was... | 1:18:35 | 1:18:37 | |
Before the game, we all went out and we had the minute's silence, | 1:18:37 | 1:18:40 | |
which was almost unheard of, and it was unbelievably respectful, | 1:18:40 | 1:18:45 | |
it was fantastic. | 1:18:45 | 1:18:46 | |
And it was just the fact that, you know, I'd only met him | 1:18:46 | 1:18:49 | |
a couple of times but I got the fact that, "Oh, my goodness me, | 1:18:49 | 1:18:52 | |
"this fella was Mr Liverpool." | 1:18:52 | 1:18:55 | |
I was away in Norway and we came home for the funeral, | 1:18:56 | 1:19:02 | |
and I always remember getting in my car, driving into town | 1:19:02 | 1:19:07 | |
and putting the radio on and there was an interview with Bill Shankly. | 1:19:07 | 1:19:14 | |
And, as soon as I put it on, my name was mentioned. | 1:19:14 | 1:19:18 | |
You know, he was talking about me | 1:19:19 | 1:19:22 | |
and he was saying I was an honest boy and all that. | 1:19:22 | 1:19:25 | |
A moment like that, you wouldn't realise, you know, | 1:19:28 | 1:19:31 | |
it was very emotional. | 1:19:31 | 1:19:33 | |
But he was the best thing that ever happened to Liverpool. | 1:19:35 | 1:19:38 | |
Well, I got asked... I won this award and it was in London and, | 1:19:40 | 1:19:45 | |
to my amazement, I didn't know Bill Shankly was coming, | 1:19:45 | 1:19:47 | |
he came out and presented me with it. | 1:19:47 | 1:19:49 | |
And I just gave it him back and said, "Thank you, it's yours, | 1:19:49 | 1:19:53 | |
"because I wouldn't have had it without you." | 1:19:53 | 1:19:56 | |
And he was... | 1:19:56 | 1:19:57 | |
But he took it, and when we went to his funeral, | 1:19:57 | 1:20:03 | |
we were in the front room and the first thing | 1:20:03 | 1:20:08 | |
when we came to his house, Nessie came up to me and said | 1:20:08 | 1:20:11 | |
"This is yours, he said I've got to give it you back the day he died." | 1:20:11 | 1:20:15 | |
It just creased me, you know. | 1:20:15 | 1:20:17 | |
Pretty tough when she gave it me back. | 1:20:22 | 1:20:25 | |
I still remember absolutely every moment of it, really, | 1:20:27 | 1:20:30 | |
from the time we left the house it was like a sea of people. | 1:20:30 | 1:20:34 | |
Red scarves and blue scarves, as well, Everton supporters. | 1:20:34 | 1:20:36 | |
I mean, when I saw the Everton supporters who'd come out to | 1:20:36 | 1:20:39 | |
pay their last respects, that is when I just fell apart, really, | 1:20:39 | 1:20:43 | |
because it was nothing to do with football, it was people, | 1:20:43 | 1:20:46 | |
you know, coming to pay their last respects. | 1:20:46 | 1:20:48 | |
Well, I just felt I had to. Oh, I'm sorry I can't... | 1:20:51 | 1:20:55 | |
Yeah, he was so loved. | 1:20:56 | 1:20:58 | |
It was wonderful, | 1:20:58 | 1:20:59 | |
it was one of those things that you were glad you could go to it. | 1:20:59 | 1:21:05 | |
I was a youth worker at the time and I was based | 1:21:08 | 1:21:11 | |
just by the Jolly Miller, | 1:21:11 | 1:21:13 | |
and the church wasn't very far away but I couldn't bring myself to go. | 1:21:13 | 1:21:18 | |
Don't know whether it was because I thought I'd be too upset there, | 1:21:19 | 1:21:22 | |
I don't know, but I just couldn't bring myself to go to the funeral. | 1:21:22 | 1:21:26 | |
You know, I wanted to... For me, as a religious thing, | 1:21:26 | 1:21:30 | |
I wanted him to live forever, to be resurrected. | 1:21:30 | 1:21:35 | |
They got a huge turnout. Huge, huge, huge. | 1:21:37 | 1:21:42 | |
Just everybody wanted to be there, you know. | 1:21:42 | 1:21:44 | |
We didn't want to be there. | 1:21:46 | 1:21:47 | |
It was a sad, sad day, football's great loss | 1:21:49 | 1:21:54 | |
when a man like Bill Shankly leaves the pitch. | 1:21:54 | 1:21:58 | |
BAGPIPES PLAY AMAZING GRACE | 1:21:58 | 1:21:59 | |
Bill Shankly didnae live for himself, | 1:22:04 | 1:22:07 | |
Bill Shankly lived for the team, the extended family and the city. | 1:22:07 | 1:22:14 | |
TO THE TUNE OF AMAZING GRACE: | 1:22:23 | 1:22:24 | |
# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly | 1:22:24 | 1:22:27 | |
# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly | 1:22:27 | 1:22:34 | |
# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly, Shankly | 1:22:34 | 1:22:42 | |
# Shankly, Shankly, Shankly. # | 1:22:42 | 1:22:49 | |
I think something gets lost when we cease to think that | 1:22:51 | 1:22:58 | |
the attitudes that Bill Shankly had and the enthusiasm he had, | 1:22:58 | 1:23:05 | |
the humanity that he brought to his involvement with football - | 1:23:05 | 1:23:13 | |
if that goes, if we cease to believe in that, I think something is lost. | 1:23:13 | 1:23:17 | |
It's like people say now, you know, you love football | 1:23:19 | 1:23:23 | |
but you hate the industry, and I kind of do. | 1:23:23 | 1:23:26 | |
It's something that you feel that's been taken away from people | 1:23:27 | 1:23:30 | |
and been sold back to them at an exorbitant price | 1:23:30 | 1:23:32 | |
and the era that he comes out of, the era that he was | 1:23:32 | 1:23:35 | |
a successful manager in, it was a more optimistic time for Britain. | 1:23:35 | 1:23:42 | |
We look back on that era now as a sort of almost like a lost | 1:23:42 | 1:23:44 | |
paradise in a way, you know, and I think anybody that had their | 1:23:44 | 1:23:49 | |
personal ascendancy in that time is very valued, is very valued in | 1:23:49 | 1:23:54 | |
the working class community as something | 1:23:54 | 1:23:56 | |
that we've lost in some way. | 1:23:56 | 1:23:57 | |
If I had a business and I wanted a workforce, | 1:23:59 | 1:24:03 | |
I would pick my workforce from Merseyside. | 1:24:03 | 1:24:06 | |
It's a kind of distressed area, there's a lot of unemployment | 1:24:06 | 1:24:08 | |
and people have a hard time but they've got a big spirit. | 1:24:08 | 1:24:13 | |
All they need is handling like human beings, | 1:24:13 | 1:24:16 | |
not bullied and pushed around, I'll tell you. | 1:24:16 | 1:24:19 | |
So I'll take my workforce from Merseyside, and anybody | 1:24:19 | 1:24:22 | |
can take theirs from anywhere else they like and I'll win. | 1:24:22 | 1:24:26 | |
Fans in general across the country now, | 1:24:27 | 1:24:29 | |
they get treated like second class citizens but we get charged | 1:24:29 | 1:24:32 | |
first class prices, basically, and he would be mortified, I know | 1:24:32 | 1:24:36 | |
he would, and it's a shame that he's not around because he'd be the | 1:24:36 | 1:24:39 | |
voice that would be fighting on our behalf, there's no danger of that. | 1:24:39 | 1:24:42 | |
He wouldn't like it now, it's not his idea of football. | 1:24:44 | 1:24:47 | |
I think he'd be looking down and thinking, "Oh, it's changed | 1:24:47 | 1:24:51 | |
"and I'm not sure it's for the better here." | 1:24:51 | 1:24:53 | |
You know, he wouldn't like the players putting on earphones | 1:24:53 | 1:24:56 | |
and walking off a bus without acknowledging the fans | 1:24:56 | 1:24:59 | |
and signing a few autographs. He'd hate that. | 1:24:59 | 1:25:02 | |
He wouldn't like the corporate, he didn't see football as | 1:25:02 | 1:25:05 | |
somewhere where you go and sit in a privileged seat and you have a meal. | 1:25:05 | 1:25:12 | |
He probably wouldn't even like the advertising on the front, | 1:25:12 | 1:25:15 | |
I think he just liked the badge. | 1:25:15 | 1:25:17 | |
So, it's changed a lot, but that was the best era, | 1:25:19 | 1:25:23 | |
there's no doubt about it. | 1:25:23 | 1:25:24 | |
The Shankly days at Liverpool, | 1:25:24 | 1:25:26 | |
despite Bob Paisley doing a lot better and other times | 1:25:26 | 1:25:30 | |
and maybe Klopp even now might take the club and do all the same | 1:25:30 | 1:25:32 | |
things again... | 1:25:32 | 1:25:34 | |
You know, the first time it happens | 1:25:34 | 1:25:37 | |
is always the best. | 1:25:37 | 1:25:39 | |
I was a lucky, lucky boy because in the '70s | 1:25:40 | 1:25:43 | |
when we were winning everything, you know, I was about 25, | 1:25:43 | 1:25:47 | |
it couldn't have happened at a better time of my life. | 1:25:47 | 1:25:51 | |
I was really lucky. | 1:25:51 | 1:25:52 | |
The timing was perfect, going right through to see all those games. | 1:25:53 | 1:25:58 | |
I was a lucky boy and all those memories I'll treasure till | 1:25:58 | 1:26:02 | |
the day I die. | 1:26:02 | 1:26:04 | |
Really, really good. | 1:26:04 | 1:26:05 | |
You see, this is the story, that Liverpool's not only a club, | 1:26:09 | 1:26:14 | |
it's an institution where my aim was to bring the people | 1:26:14 | 1:26:19 | |
close to the team, to the club. | 1:26:19 | 1:26:22 | |
So much so that men died, and the women, their wives, | 1:26:22 | 1:26:27 | |
brought their ashes to scatter them in the Anfield ground | 1:26:27 | 1:26:31 | |
and they said a little prayer, then they went away. | 1:26:31 | 1:26:36 | |
I mean, football's a matter of life and death. | 1:26:36 | 1:26:38 | |
I said, "Look, it's more important than that," | 1:26:38 | 1:26:41 | |
and it's more important to them than that, you see. | 1:26:41 | 1:26:43 | |
And that's why there was no hypocrisy, it was sheer honesty. | 1:26:43 | 1:26:47 | |
These people support Liverpool, and I accepted them then. | 1:26:48 | 1:26:53 | |
Got them in, I said, "Come in, in you come." | 1:26:53 | 1:26:56 | |
Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool... | 1:26:56 | 1:26:59 | |
The people of Liverpool, Liverpool supporters, | 1:26:59 | 1:27:02 | |
looked up to Shankly, like, top man, wasn't he? | 1:27:02 | 1:27:05 | |
He was just the person that they could trust. With anything. | 1:27:05 | 1:27:10 | |
Yeah. Very difficult thing, he was just such a great man. | 1:27:12 | 1:27:16 | |
Oh, yeah, people still talk about him. | 1:27:18 | 1:27:22 | |
Somebody will say, you know, "What about that Bill Shankly?" | 1:27:23 | 1:27:27 | |
They want to know a bit about him. | 1:27:27 | 1:27:30 | |
What was he like? | 1:27:30 | 1:27:31 | |
Well, I think in life all good things, all incredible things, | 1:27:33 | 1:27:36 | |
start from people and beliefs and values, and I think Bill Shankly | 1:27:36 | 1:27:43 | |
is the iconic figure in terms of Liverpool Football Club. | 1:27:43 | 1:27:46 | |
You know, if he'd have made mistakes and put the wrong ideas | 1:27:46 | 1:27:51 | |
and the wrong philosophies in place, who knows, | 1:27:51 | 1:27:53 | |
we might not be been sitting here doing | 1:27:53 | 1:27:55 | |
an interview at one of the biggest football clubs in the world. | 1:27:55 | 1:27:59 | |
I said before that time moves on, things change, but I think a figure | 1:27:59 | 1:28:02 | |
like that and the values he had, I think that's still the same today. | 1:28:02 | 1:28:06 | |
And he's a man, I think, who we'd all look for and think... | 1:28:06 | 1:28:12 | |
you'd like your dad, yourself, your grandad to have that look on life. | 1:28:12 | 1:28:16 | |
Always trying to help people. | 1:28:16 | 1:28:19 | |
I think that's what Bill Shankly did, it wasn't | 1:28:19 | 1:28:21 | |
just about football, it was helping his fellow man. | 1:28:21 | 1:28:23 | |
I suppose my abiding | 1:28:24 | 1:28:27 | |
memory of Bill is... | 1:28:27 | 1:28:33 | |
just the delight I felt when I | 1:28:33 | 1:28:35 | |
saw him coming towards me, and | 1:28:35 | 1:28:40 | |
the certainty that | 1:28:40 | 1:28:43 | |
there would be a lot of laughing along the way, and a lot of warmth. | 1:28:43 | 1:28:48 | |
He was a great Ayrshireman, and we've had a few great | 1:28:53 | 1:28:56 | |
Ayrshiremen, but Bill would be up there with the higher ranks. | 1:28:56 | 1:29:01 | |
But he was a very unique man. | 1:29:05 | 1:29:07 | |
They always said there'll never be another, | 1:29:07 | 1:29:10 | |
and the statue we've got here, it's so apt. | 1:29:10 | 1:29:14 | |
The inscription on it says, "He made the people happy." | 1:29:15 | 1:29:20 | |
You couldn't have thought up a better line for him, | 1:29:22 | 1:29:26 | |
could you? "He made the people happy." | 1:29:26 | 1:29:28 | |
Everybody who'd come here, he made the people happy. | 1:29:28 | 1:29:31 | |
And if you can do that, as a manager, | 1:29:31 | 1:29:36 | |
you deserve to have the job, don't you? | 1:29:36 | 1:29:39 | |
# Walk on through the wind | 1:29:39 | 1:29:44 | |
# Walk on through the rain | 1:29:46 | 1:29:51 | |
# Though your dreams be tossed | 1:29:51 | 1:29:58 | |
# And blown | 1:29:58 | 1:30:04 | |
# Walk on, walk on | 1:30:05 | 1:30:11 | |
# With hope in your heart | 1:30:11 | 1:30:16 | |
# And you'll never walk alone | 1:30:17 | 1:30:29 | |
# You'll never walk alone | 1:30:29 | 1:30:39 | |
# Walk on, walk on | 1:30:43 | 1:30:49 | |
# With hope in your heart | 1:30:49 | 1:30:56 | |
# And you'll never walk alone | 1:30:56 | 1:31:06 | |
# You'll never walk alone. # | 1:31:07 | 1:31:19 |