Episode 2 Dragons' Den

'These are the dragons -

'wealthy, well-connected, innovative and influential.

'Each week, they make or break the dreams

'of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.'

I've seen some stupid investments in the Den, but this takes the biscuit.

Unless you're willing to call whoever you work for and resign, it doesn't work.

-You've been working on this for five years?

-Yes. That's right.

Doing what?

This is really difficult.

I feel like I'm in some sort of movie scene at the moment, frankly.

I'm going to make you an offer.

If you'll stop crying.

'Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...

'..telecoms giant Peter Jones...

'..and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne

'have between them struck deals worth more than £7 million in the Den.

'But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment is the creator

'of her own world-renowned interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen,

'and cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.

'The multi-millionaires will give each entrepreneur three minutes to pitch their idea

'and then interrogate them on every aspect of their business.

'To face them takes nerve and vision. Who will leave with the dragons' money?'

Welcome to Dragons' Den,

where cash-hungry entrepreneurs are waiting to pitch their business idea

to our five multi-millionaire investors.

It's the dragons' own money at stake in the Den,

so the entrepreneurs had better be prepared for some tough questions,

if they're to secure the investment they so desperately need.

First in the Den is Manchester-based product designer Waqar Hassan.

He spotted that money can be made in a market crowded with mass-produced items

by selling something a little more bespoke.

Hi. My name is Waqar Hassan.

Today, I'm looking for an investment of 75,000

for 20% equity in my business, BUKcase.

It's a design-led brand that specialises in hand-crafted cases

for tablet computers and smartphones.

Everything we make is hand-crafted in the UK by master bookbinders

using locally sourced materials.

I recently designed this product to be discreet

and to have a very stylish exterior.

It looks like a book, feels like a book,

but when you open it up, inside is a tablet computer.

It automatically turns on.

The business has been trading since December 2012.

I have sold 35 units, with no money spent on marketing or advertising.

I recently had a meeting with a British department store

which loved the idea of having a book bar in their stores.

They'd have a bookbinder with a nice counter.

The customer would come to the front and choose the material they want it to be made out of.

Norman is making a case using the traditional bookbinding process.

He's using traditional tools.

It takes approximately five to ten minutes to make a case.

I have personalised some cases for you,

so you can have a good look at the product.

There you go.

'A composed pitch from Manchester-based product designer Waqar Hassan.

'He wants £75,000 for 20% of his company

'selling British-made hand-crafted cases

'for tablet computers and smartphones.

'Design guru Kelly Hoppen is first to question the creative entrepreneur.'

-The bit about your pitch I loved most is that it's made in Britain.

-Thank you.

Which I admire and think is fantastic.

You're going to make these all handmade and bespoke.

How are you going to create the volume?

It depends on how many we're required to make.

At the moment, the bookbinder's capable of making 250 units a week.

That's just one bookbinder. The cradles are very easy to make.

-Is that wood, the cradle?

-Yes. It's birch plywood.

It's the best quality birch plywood you can get.

They're manufactured by myself.

It takes me 20 minutes to make one and I'm just using hobby equipment.

If I used industrial-grade equipment I can make them a lot faster.

'Waqar's passion for traditional bookbinding has impressed Kelly Hoppen,

'despite his artisan working methods, which imply there's a limit to the quantities he can produce.

'Now, Piers Linney wants to know more about the quality of his materials.'

-Waqar, hi, I'm Piers.

-Hi.

I like products like this.

You've done a great job, used your initiative.

You've made your jig and the wooden piece.

I've just, unfortunately, broken the end off.

But little things like the rubber here looks a bit...

untidy, if you don't mind me saying.

-And it's not... It's not leather.

-OK.

The point I'm making, if I boil it down,

-is that the finished product...

-Mm-hm.

-..isn't quite what it could be.

-OK.

Well, these could be developed.

The units that I've sold up to now,

I've had no issues from any customers. Everyone's loved it.

I must be doing something correct if people are liking the product.

'So, no complaints from Waqar's client base,

'but Peter Jones wants to test the product out for himself.'

-I'm not pinching it!

-That's fine.

KELLY: What is your background?

I'm a product designer and I'm a teacher.

-What kind of products?

-I design all sorts of products.

I've designed medical equipment, small accessories,

and I'm currently working on two other concepts.

-This is one of the ideas I've got.

-So how are you earning a living?

-I'm a teacher.

-Right, you're still teaching?

-Yes.

When customers receive the case, they get an insert which says how to insert the case.

-Insert this for me.

-OK.

So, you slide it in from the top.

And it clips in. There you go.

OK. I understand.

-OK, you understand?

-That is something we can develop.

-What? That it fits?

-It does fit, but it does slip.

-Waqar, that's awful. You're trying to sell a premium product and it doesn't even work!

-OK.

Give me something more than just "OK". Defend your product.

-It's...

-This is awful.

-I've not had any customers complain up till now.

Oh, come on! Look. It doesn't even stay in.

-It can be developed...

-You can't sell a product like that.

-Right.

-You can't put a product on a market that says, "I need to develop it.

"By the way, pay the premium price and in six months, when I get the product right,

"come and buy another one at a premium and hopefully it'll work cos I'm developing it.

"Because I make it in Britain, you should be all right with that."

-The product is inadequate.

-OK.

-And not fit for purpose.

OK. A lot of products, when they first are launched, they have teething problems.

You've created something to fit a tablet in it and it doesn't fit.

Is that a teething problem or is that back to ground zero?

'A major flaw has been discovered in this otherwise intriguing product.

'Duncan Bannatyne has heard enough.'

Um... I'll tell you where I am.

-I'm out.

-OK. Thank you, Duncan.

DEBORAH: Waqar, that was fatal.

Unfortunately, your response just wasn't good enough.

You didn't look horrified, which presumably means you've seen it before.

-You then say, "Yes, but we can work on it."

-Mm-hm.

You can't work on something that fundamentally doesn't do the thing that you're selling it to do.

That's... That's awful.

This is the easiest decision not to invest I think I've ever made on Dragons' Den.

I shut my book up the minute Peter...it fell out of there.

I put it down and thought that's the end of it.

So I won't be investing. I'm out.

'Two incensed dragons have walked away from the deal.

'It's time for Kelly Hoppen to pass her verdict.'

I wrote down on a piece of paper "Fantastic" when you walked in.

I saw somebody making something by hand. You tell me it's British-made.

Fantastic! Music to my ears!

As it went by and I picked it up, I just put "poor quality".

And then when Peter picked it up and it fell out, that was my decision.

It's a real shame.

The fact that you are a product designer,

you have to be able to go through and tick all the boxes before you put something out to sell.

I wish you luck. I hope you can sort it out, but I'm afraid I'm out.

OK, thank you.

'Two dragons remain.

'Can Piers Linney and Peter Jones see beyond the flaws

'and spot potential in Waqar's BUKcase brand?'

Love the traditional skills,

but you haven't applied them in a product that's viable.

-For that reason, I'm out.

-Right. Thank you.

It's clearly back to the drawing board because the product doesn't...

It's not fit for purpose, basically.

Over-engineered, but...you're on to something.

But on that basis...

-I'm out.

-Right. Thank you.

'Despite a promising start to his pitch,

'Waqar leaves the Den with no cash investment,

'but advice from the dragons to go back to the drawing board.'

'I don't know what happened.

'They started to find flaws in the product and started taking it...

'picking all the negatives.'

The tablet computer falling out will haunt me for many years!

'Waqar was not the first entrepreneur in the Den to suffer a pitch malfunction.'

What ARE these bits that fall out?

-GASPS:

-Have you ripped it open?

-'Even when the pitch goes without a hitch...'

-You have presented very well.

'..the dragons can't be hoodwinked

'into investing into a product they see as less than flawless.'

Don't like the product.

'So how did Worcestershire-based inventor Malcolm Victory fare

'when he came to the Den looking for £120,000 for 15% equity

'in his solution to the problem of drying washing on rainy days?'

The Dryline is a cover which goes over a rotary washing line.

It turns it into an umbrella so you can dry your washing in the rain.

'Designer Kelly Hoppen was less than enthused about the product's aesthetic value.'

To have something like that in my garden is an eyesore.

I look at it and I lose the will to live.

-You've been working on this for five years?

-Yes, that's right.

Doing what?

Um...

Working out the design.

'Deborah Meaden thought the whole concept of the product

'was fundamentally flawed.'

Sun dries clothes.

Air dries clothes.

But people hang their washing out on a sunny day

or a dry day or a windy day.

That's kind of what we do in this country.

'Malcolm's product had set Piers Linney's imagination racing.'

I had the picture of one in Kelly Hoppen's garden.

Never. Kelly fighting through the rain to get her knickers off it!

I can't quite see that! >

'But he wasn't joking when it came down to whether Malcolm's invention would be a good investment.'

-You can invent the light bulb and the chocolate teapot.

-Sure.

So, you know, good luck but I'm out.

'In the end, Malcolm left the Den

'with nothing but his basket of washing.'

Have you ever woken up in the early hours,

turned on some obscure TV channel

and found an info-mercial for a home fitness product?

Could that be where the product of our next entrepreneur, Donna Kerr-Foley, ends up?

Not if she has her way. She thinks it'll fly off the shelves -

especially with the help of a dragon.

My name's Donna and I'm here today to ask for a £50,000 investment

for a 25% stake in my company, The Running Mat Ltd.

I've been in the fitness industry for over 18 years

and seen many products come and go.

My target market is the outdoor fitness industry,

which has over nine million participants in the UK alone

doing boot camps, personal training, running and outdoor fitness classes.

For three and a half years, I've been running a successful business

called No Lippy Boot Camp, a ladies-only boot camp business.

It was whilst training my clients that I needed a particular product.

I've got a personal trainer and her client coming in to show you an example.

As you can see, it's nearly impossible for a personal trainer or boot camp instructor

to carry an exercise mat and exercise and run at the same time.

I needed a particular product that was light, easy to carry

and where my participant could run and exercise, too.

After trying to purchase this type of product for over a year, I realised I had invented a product.

My product is the Running Mat.

The Running Mat is a portable outdoor exercise mat.

You can run and exercise whilst wearing it.

The compact unit opens up into a cushioned exercise mat.

It's waterproof. It's easy to clean.

It protects the hands, the knees, the back and the bum.

No more dirty clothes. No more hands on wet grass.

No more lying in snow and no more putting your hands in dog mess.

This is a brand-new product. There is nothing like this on the marketplace at the moment.

I have four designs registered with patent pending and trademark.

I thank you for your time today and welcome any questions you may have.

'A confident pitch from fitness instructor Donna Kerr-Foley from Newcastle.

'To get her Running Mat business off the starting block,

'the entrepreneur needs a £50,000 investment.

'On offer in return is a 25% stake.

'First to jump in is health club tycoon Duncan Bannatyne.'

-Donna.

-Duncan.

Is this a joke? SHE LAUGHS

-No.

-Come on! You cannot be serious.

-You're taking the Mick.

-No.

-Look, you said you've identified a problem.

-Yes.

I don't see a problem you've identified and solved.

You had two trainers, one carrying a big rolled-up mat under his shoulder.

Two issues. First of all, that mat was very thick.

You could put that on the ground, lie down and stop stones hurting your back.

This is too thin. It's not going to solve that problem.

You're creating in your own head a problem that doesn't exist.

I think that the amount of people who train like that is minuscule.

No. Well, definitely not in the North East.

My office is in the North East. I've got five health clubs in the North East. I can't see it.

-I think you're having a joke.

-Not at all, Duncan.

'Fitness expert Duncan Bannatyne's damning verdict on Donna's product

'could spell disaster for her hopes for investment.

'But will Peter Jones see potential in her running mat?'

I must admit, I don't understand why you wouldn't...put a rucksack on when you go to these boot camps.

Tara does one twice a week and when she goes out of the door,

-she's got her little sports rucksack...

-Yes.

-..bottle of water,

towel and a mat.

How does she run or sprint and do any type of exercise whilst carrying it?

-Carrying what?

-Exercise mat.

-She takes it off, you numpty!

Why...? That's the whole point of the exercise mat.

She doesn't go with a rucksack and then do the whole hour and a half...

-That doesn't work.

-She puts it down.

-Why would you put it down?

She doesn't want to wear a rucksack.

How this works so well is when my clients are doing boot camp,

I say, "We can run from A to B," and we don't need to carry the stuff.

We can use different areas, do all our exercises, put it back on,

-run up and down the hill five times...

-Donna.

-Do a bit of exercise...

-Donna.

-Then off we go!

You have created a boot camp exercise regime

-that requires one of these.

-No, not at all.

You invented this to be used in your boot camp exercise regime.

'Donna's fighting back to defend her product from some harsh criticism.

'Will Kelly Hoppen hold a more favourable perspective than her male rivals?'

-Hello, Donna. I'm Kelly.

-Hi.

I actually think it's very clever cos I do train every day.

I know that if I'm in a park and it's beautiful weather,

forget the mud, you want something and it's a problem cos you're taking water and everything.

-I don't think it's only for personal trainers.

-No, definitely not.

-Anyone in fitness.

-Who want to exercise outside.

Yoga is also a massive market.

Someone that does yoga has bought one cos she likes doing yoga in the park.

The problem is that your patent hasn't gone through.

It hasn't, no. It's early days.

-It's not going to go through.

-Sorry?

It's not going to go through.

You're spending money on a patent that isn't going to happen.

Over the next three years, I'm going to sell as many of these products as I can.

If it doesn't go through, it doesn't go through.

'The dragons may be out to get Donna on her patent,

'but will they go any easier on the subject of her sales?

'Peter Jones has some questions.'

-Donna.

-Yes, hi.

-How many do you think you can sell?

There's two different routes I can go down.

The first route is to sell to personal trainers and boot camp trainers,

and also contact stores to sell it in shops myself.

I'm looking to sell 8,500, just under 8,500 over the year.

What will you sell them for if you sell them at a wholesale price?

-£25.

-£25 for that?

-Yeah.

-You're kidding me?

-35 people bought them last week.

I've sold them to a chain of stores for £12.50 each.

They were very excited about the product.

I asked about what you're going to sell wholesale and you said £25.

No, sorry. I misunderstood there.

-You're going to sell them at £12 into retail.

-At the moment, £12.50.

If I go wholesale, I'm expecting to sell more like 100,000 products over the year.

-Which way are you going to bloody go?

-That's... Exactly.

-That's exactly my dilemma.

-You want advice from me?

-No.

-You're running the pitch.

"If I go wholesale." "If I go international."

"If I only sell in Newcastle."

It's your problem. You're pitching to me.

'Harsh words from Peter Jones.

'But Deborah Meaden wants to know whether Donna's got a better grasp

'of the finances of her boot camp business.'

Donna, hi. I'm Deborah. Your existing business, that's making money?

-It is.

-How much profit are you producing a year?

The first year was £30,000 turnover, which is a £7,000 profit.

Year two was £54,000 with a £17,000 profit.

And the last year was a £66,000 turnover with £11,000 profit.

-So, theoretically, you would have no issue with those businesses coming together?

-No.

OK, Donna. >

I think YOU'RE very good.

Sometimes, you know, I just invest in somebody because I think,

"I'm not so sure about the product, but I actually think that if there is a product in there,

"this person is going to be able to do it."

-And I think you come across really very well.

-Thank you.

-What's all this?

-I don't know. I can't control it!

LAUGHING: This is supposed to be good news!

- You're as shocked as I am. - This is supposed to be good news.

I don't know why I'm doing that. I can't help it.

I'm going to offer you... all of the money.

It would be for the businesses combined.

-So I would want the combination of the boot camp.

-OK.

-With this one.

And I would want 40% of the business.

We must be a bit psychic cos I'd written down exactly the same offer.

< I think you're fantastic.

I would also offer you the full amount,

but I would want 40% of both the businesses.

OK.

'Two identical offers from highly experienced businesswomen,

'Deborah Meaden and Kelly Hoppen.

'But has Donna's enthusiasm about her product

'been enough to win round their male counterparts?'

I think you should very, very, VERY quickly

tell Deborah you want to go into business with her, take her money and run cos she won't catch you.

< Kelly might.

I've seen some stupid investments in the Den, but this takes the biscuit.

Honestly. I'm out.

'An incredulous Duncan Bannatyne is the first dragon to walk away from the deal.

'Which way will Piers Linney go?'

Donna, I'll tell you what I think. The mat, I think you will sell some.

I just don't see there's a market big enough to get a return on an investment in the mat.

-So I'm afraid I'm out.

-OK. Thanks, Piers.

HE MOUTHS SILENTLY

SHE LAUGHS

I don't know what to say. I need the mat to lie down, I think.

I'm, um...

It's one of those moments in the Den that very rarely happens,

but when you get them, you have to take 30 seconds out to see if you've missed the point.

Because you've ended up getting an offer from clearly...

I mean, I used to regard them as quite sensible people.

So there's obviously something in it that I'm not seeing, but I'm with Duncan.

I'm... I'm really shocked that you have nothing. You have no patent.

Anybody can replicate this. I don't think it's going to sell.

-Do you know what I'm going to say?

-That you want to invest?

You are very, very investable, but your idea is ridiculous.

That's the only reason why I'm going to say I'm out.

'Compliments, but no cash.

'Now, Donna has two offers but for more equity in her company

'than she wanted to give away.

'Can she secure a better deal?'

Oh... Um...

Would you two like to work together?

Is that something that is a possibility?

I would LOVE to have, um...

..yous come on board at 30%

between yous.

I'd be VERY happy to share this with Kelly, but it would have to be 40%,

particularly, if there were two dragons.

You want me focused on making this work.

At 20% I'll do that. Less, it runs the risk of it just becoming, you know...something.

I would be delighted to work with Deborah, but I also would want 40%.

It's very early on and it's going to need a lot of attention.

OK.

I came in here and I said I wouldn't leave without a dragon.

The fact that I've got a possibility of leaving with two is fantastic.

And I would give 40% away to work with both of yous.

So, I would love to accept.

< Great! Excellent!

Brilliant! Fantastic!

'Donna has done it! She's agreed to part with a bigger stake in her business than she wanted,

'but with two multi-millionaire dragons on board,

'she can barely contain her delight.'

-I'm dead excited!

-DEBORAH LAUGHS

Peter, remember when this used to be a serious business show?

DEBORAH: Stop it, Duncan! KELLY: You watch!

PETER: Belt mat(!)

'The sharp end of Duncan Bannatyne's tongue has been felt by many an entrepreneur.'

-Do you want an investment?

-Yes.

-OK, show me your orders.

-I can get you the e-mails.

-I don't want e-mail communication.

-You said you'd had orders.

-I-I-I...

-Show me the orders.

It doesn't matter what the business is, it's my return that matters.

-You've got £80,000 of stock.

-Yes.

-Why aren't you selling it?

Fast.

'The straight-talking brutal tycoon has slayed many a dragon, too.'

What you need to do is make an offer. 25% or 2%.

Make an offer and they can decide!

Why are disputing it, Deborah, I don't understand.

I wish what you were talking about was remotely interesting. It IS interesting, Duncan.

Are you glad the clever dragon's here to help you out? Be quiet, Grandad!

'When Duncan Bannatyne's in the Den, one thing's for sure -

'if he's not making money, he's making mischief.'

We're not going to know until... until Kelly eats some

and we see if she chokes to death!

Blows up like a balloon!

KELLY: That's quite scary. Duncan, we're over here.

PETER: There's definitely a design problem.

See ya, guys. LAUGHTER

PETER: Good riddance!

'So far tonight, one entrepreneur has managed to secure an investment in the Den.'

I would give 40% away to work with both of yous,

so I'd love to accept.

< Great! Excellent!

Brilliant!

'Can any of these budding businesspeople follow suit,

'and walk away with more of the dragons' cash?'

Every year, a staggering eight million disposable nappies are sent to landfill.

Our next entrepreneurs want to do something about that.

Parents Clare and Matthew Naunton are hoping their nappy recycling service

will get the green light from a dragon with a green conscience.

Hello. My name is Clare Naunton. I'm here with my husband, Matthew.

Together, we founded Nappies2Go,

a disposable nappy recycling and supply business for parents and nurseries.

We're here today to ask for £70,000 for a 9% share in our business.

In the UK, 700,000 babies are born each year

and 90% of their parents choose the ease and convenience of disposable nappies,

despite the guilt that eight million nappies a day are sent to landfill.

This is a small sample of one baby's nappy waste over a six-week period.

If you imagine 40,000 times this amount is sent to landfill each and every day.

Nappies2Go can collect the nappy waste,

take it to a plant where it's turned into paper and plastic fibres

and reprocessed back into decking, garden furniture, park benches.

So we provide an environmentally friendly and guilt-free way of using disposable nappies,

but it's more than just green benefits that we provide.

We deliver leading brand nappies and wipes to customers' doors at everyday low prices,

competitive with the very best offer from a supermarket,

but without the hassle of squeezing it into the boot of your car or the bottom of your pushchair.

We believe this offers an exciting and different opportunity for the dragons to get involved in,

that not only has an environmental feel-good factor,

but makes fantastic business sense.

Thank you.

'A pitch with green credentials from Clare and Matthew Naunton.

'Their nappy delivery and recycling service

'needs a cash injection of £70,000 for a 9% stake.

'Deborah Meaden wants to know how eco-friendly the concept really is.'

So, what is the carbon cost of converting from that,

driving a vehicle round, delivering and picking up nappies

and then turning it into that decking?

It's actually a 70% lower footprint than landfill and incineration.

And it will take the equivalent...

The one process plant that's in operation takes the equivalent

of 7,500 cars off the road, in terms of the CO2 footprint.

That's impressive, but there are a lot of people who, at the moment,

-are feeling pretty... Their purse is feeling pretty pinched.

-Yeah.

So... Why do you think now people are going to be prepared to pay a premium?

I think we have a number of possible different target markets.

We've had very much those eco-parents that...

We don't even need to sell the idea to them. They're sold as soon as they're told that they can recycle.

And our customers are from quite a diverse background.

Some are actually making some sacrifices, but I think they view it as the equivalent of a latte a week,

the cost to them to have their nappies recycled.

But those people who need to dispose of nappies don't drink lattes.

- Especially not at £5 each. - DUNCAN: What's your background?

-What did you do before this?

-I've worked in IT for a number of years, selling managed services.

-Clare, what's your background?

-Currently, I work part-time as a climate change manager.

The rest of my time is spent devoted to this and driving it forward.

'Impressive CVs, but the revelation they're still holding down day jobs

'has set alarm bells ringing for Peter Jones.'

-If I gave you £70,000 now...

-Yes.

..which one of you is leaving their job today?

Um... I think I'd have to answer that question.

Today? Neither of us would leave our jobs.

But absolutely, there is a conversation to be had

about at which point in the future does it make sense for either one of us to leave our jobs.

You're saying, "When the business can afford me and it's making profit,

"I can leave my salary, job, and come into the business

"and take the profit that the business is making because it's sustainable then."

What that doesn't help me with is that is that I'm just sitting there to finance you.

Rather than finance the business.

DUNCAN: Peter, that's rubbish. PIERS: That's what I hear.

When the business can afford it, they'll come in.

They'll take the profit because it's generating enough to pay them.

The business is getting bigger and can afford to pay them.

What we've done is recognise that our skill set

-is not in driving round the country to collect nappies.

-I'm not saying it is.

Your skill set should be to run the business that I'm investing in.

There must be a date in your model where you say, "We're in."

-We've recruited some really good people.

-They're not here.

But we would... I think the next stage is for us to recruit more of an operational manager.

How much would you need to raise today for you both to say,

"We're going to leave our jobs and step into the business"?

Can we have two seconds to answer that...? To discuss it, sorry.

Yeah. Fine.

-WHISPERING:

-We need to be careful we don't get caught in answering that.

I think the question we ask is... >

DUNCAN: Let's get out of this!

THEY CONTINUE WHISPERING

-Double the investment.

-Yeah.

OK, I think if we've understood your question correctly,

then we think it would be double the investment.

PETER: You've not understood the question at all.

What amount of money do you need to live on and what are you prepared to live on to leave your job today?

Today.

OK, so...to be fair, around £4,000 a month

-is what we need to live on.

-PETER: What you're being paid now,

you will only leave that to get 50,000 and get 70,000 investment?

PETER: You seem to me to want your cake and eat it.

Matthew, Clare, unless you're willing to get into that lift

and call whoever you work for and resign, it doesn't work.

So I'm afraid I'm out.

'The entrepreneurs' failure to convince Piers Linney of their commitment

'has resulted in him walking away from a deal.

'Will Kelly Hoppen show any more sympathy?'

KELLY: I'll tell you where I am.

If you're coming to investors to invest and give you OUR money,

then you have to give up your job

to be able to really put 100% into it, to grow it.

Clearly, there's something here, but I am definitely not investing my money.

I'm sorry. I'm out.

'Kelly Hoppen drops out of the deal.

'Will Peter Jones follow suit?'

I was going to make you an offer.

And...

it's incredibly disappointing to have a situation

where I don't see the same level of feeling and commitment to a business...

..and it's not reciprocated.

So, it's with great sadness that I'm going to say I'm out.

So, if one of us was to leave, would you reconsider?

'A last-minute change of heart from the entrepreneur,

'but too little too late.

'Den rules state that when a dragon's out, they're out for good.

'Will Deborah Meaden's enthusiasm for the concept

'count for anything now?'

DEBORAH: I'm going to tell you where I am.

I think... I think you're great.

And who wouldn't love taking nappies and turning them into something you can use again?

Provided the carbon footprint is better

than putting them in a landfill, and you're telling me it is.

That story is fantastic!

-Are you feeling a "but"?

-Yes!

This is a tough industry.

It is incredibly vulnerable.

For a period of time, you can make a bit of money

and then somebody will squeeze you out of that marketplace.

So, I am genuinely really sorry to be saying the next two words.

-I'm out.

-Thank you.

I want to make sure you know that I think that Peter and Piers,

the terrible twins,

interrogated you about when you would join the company.

I think your answers were correct.

I think it's right to stay in your jobs until at such time that the company can afford to pay you.

The problem is, as Deborah said...

Deborah and I invested in a waste business

and it is very, very difficult.

Although I think you're both great and I wish you the best of success,

I'm very sorry, but I have to say I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Good luck.

'The couple's business plan may have impressed the dragons,

'but not enough to get investment.

'They leave the Den with nothing.'

-That was annoying.

-Sorry?

-That was annoying.

We should have seen that coming, though. Aargh!

'Food and drink represents the largest manufacturing sector in the UK.

'So nothing gets the dragons salivating more

'than the opportunity to invest in the next big taste sensation.

'Two foodie entrepreneurs were hoping a Latino dance troupe

'would be just the thing to help choreograph an investment

'in their range of Brazilian cooking sauces.'

DRUMS PLAY SAMBA RHYTHMS

DRUMMING STOPS

'Alba McConnell and Colin Pearson came looking for £50,000

'for 20% of their Taste Of Brazil food range.'

That is lovely!

'With the World Cup in Brazil in 2014

'and the Olympic Games in 2016,

'they hoped the dragons would see the marketing potential around these global events.'

Brazil's going to be focus of lots of media attention

and this can benefit our brand and the product.

'But Peter Jones was in no mood for a carnival

'when he got to the bottom of their brand name.'

You don't have a trademark for Rio.

We have for "Rio - A Taste Of Brazil". Not only Rio, no.

So your brand will have to be, "Rio - A Taste Of Brazil."

That's not going to work.

'Finally, the dragons dished out a reality check

'on how much the couple would need

'to get the product on the supermarket shelves.'

If I was to invest £50,000 in this, it will last five minutes.

£50,000 is not going to touch it.

You're going to need about £1 million. That's why I'm out.

'The culinary entrepreneurs left the Den with no dragon on the menu,

'but plenty of food for thought.'

So, Alba and Colin failed to convince the dragons

that their carnival-inspired cooking sauces

had a strong enough brand identity to cut it in a competitive market.

But our next entrepreneur hopes the dragons will see potential in him -

his very own one-man-brand.

Can feisty Texan cowboy Joe Walters serve a tasty investment in the Den?

GUITAR PLAYS CHORD

CAJUN INTRO

-# When you're sitting

-When you're sitting

-# In a bar room

-In a bar room

# And you feel that hunger pain

-# There is one thing

-There is one thing

-# That can save you

-That can save you

# Original Jerky is its name

# Well, put that jerky

# In your mouth, mouth, mouth

# Put that jerky in your mouth

-# Well, take a lesson

-Take a lesson

-# From the cowboy

-From the cowboy

# Take a lesson from the south

# Well, put that jerky in your mouth, mouth, mouth

# Put that jerky in your mouth. #

Kitty, Daisy and Lewis, ladies and gentlemen.

Howdy.

-TEXAS ACCENT:

-My name's Joe Walters.

I'm seeking a £37,500 investment for a 16% stake in my company, Original Jerky.

If you don't know anything about beef jerky, it's a healthy and natural snack

that's a good alternative to the mainstream snacks on the market.

The meat snack market in the UK is vastly underdeveloped.

One company controls 90% of the beef jerky market,

which is estimated to be approximately £12 million in value.

Where I'm from in Texas, beef jerky is kind of a way of life.

So, for the last nine months, I've been developing a product

and testing out a marketplace.

I launched a website and was shocked at how quickly orders started rolling in.

Soon thereafter, we had a physical location in a local craft beer bar,

where they wanted to stock our jerky as the only bar snack in it.

Shortly after that, a major craft beer brewer based in Scotland,

who has a chain of ten bars across the UK,

tried out my product and decided that he wanted it in all his bars.

So, basically, where I'm at right now is that I just can't keep up with demand.

So I need an investment from a dragon

in order to grow my production

and show England the taste of proper authentic jerky,

and I believe Original Jerky is that product.

You can have your choice of flavours.

We make a couple that are deadly hot.

'By bringing a flavour of Texas into the Den,

'Joe Walters is hoping his beef jerky will whet the dragons' appetites to invest.'

Cajun? I reckon you might like that. It matches your dress as well.

'He's asking for £37,500 for a 16% stake in his business.

'Kelly Hoppen is first to question the singing cowboy entrepreneur.'

Hi.

I think it's great, actually, and I love the taste of it.

I was born in South Africa, so I used to eat biltong.

-Is it the same kind of thing?

-It's essentially the same.

Biltong's a different process. You dry a whole piece of meat then slice it afterwards.

Where I'm slicing before.

You're very theatrical. It was a great entrance.

HE LAUGHS Great sound.

I love the packaging and everything else, but what is your vision?

-Are you really focused on what it is that you want?

-Yeah.

Right now, my market sector - and what I want to market myself as - is a premium bar snack.

Eventually, I want to get into the retail market.

-You don't dress like this, do you, normally?

-This is a special suit.

KELLY AND DEBORAH LAUGH

You're right! You're not wrong!

It's made by a fella named Nudie, the Rodeo Tailor.

He used to make Elvis's clothes and Hank Williams' clothes.

All the rhinestone cowboys.

This is for the Den? You don't walk down Camden High Street wearing it?

I have walked down Kentish Town High Street!

KELLY: I think it's great.

'Joe's unique sense of style has impressed the dragons,

'but Piers Linney wants to know

'whether his knowledge of the competition is as sharp as his suits.'

I live equidistant between Camden High Street and Kentish Town.

-So I can make deliveries to your house.

-That's handy! Very handy!

So...

-The market.

-Mm-hm.

-You're saying the market's 12 million.

Uh, yeah, it's estimated to be.

-You've got a competitor that's got 90% of the market.

-Correct.

Leaving you with 1.2 million, in terms of a market to go after.

So it's not a particularly exciting proposition for an investor.

Yeah. And I'm definitely by no means content with letting one company

control 90% of it.

This pitch I was trying to keep concise

and say, "I've identified THIS market sector."

But, yeah, I, of course, have plans.

I don't want one company earning 90%.

I don't want 'em having 70%.

'Joe's cool, calm and holding his own under the scrutiny of the dragons.

'Now, Duncan Bannatyne wants to find out more about the background to this all-American boy.'

What did you do in Texas?

I've been in a million things.

I was a drama major in college.

So I've been an actor. I went to the University of Texas.

Then I moved to Los Angeles and was an actor and musician for a number of years.

-Have you appeared in any...

-In Los Angeles...

-..cowboy movies?

-HE LAUGHS:

-I would have loved to have been in a cowboy movie.

In the States, I was mainly doing big brand commercials.

Then you end up in Dragons' Den pitching beef jerky looking like somebody out of Toy Story?

-HE LAUGHS:

-I get that quite a lot! I wear a cowboy hat all the time.

What do you want to do with the £37,500 you want today?

Well, it's sort of an interesting thing which was sprung on us today.

I was actually seeking 75,000,

but James Watt, who's the owner of BrewDog,

made an offer saying that he would match any investment of a dragon.

'The news of a second investor has raised interest levels in the Den.

'Deborah Meaden wants to drill down into the detail of how any arrangement would work.'

I want to understand what the other partner brings.

Yeah, I have a letter of intent with me for 157,000 units over a year.

-OK. I might want to see that letter of intent.

-OK.

-In fact, I would like to see that letter of intent.

-Yeah.

Thank you.

This is exactly what it says it is. It's very clear.

"Product to be supplied to us at the price agreed, £1.75.

"Orders to be billed." That's a letter of intent.

That's exactly what it says.

'Joe has shown the dragons that he's not all talk.

'He has the paperwork to prove his claims.

'Kelly Hoppen is the first to show her hand.'

You're great. I love everything about the way you've come in here.

And I think it's a very easy product to get into bars, restaurants.

You SHOULD be the face of the brand.

And I'd like to offer you the £37,500 for the 16%.

OK.

That's a very, very good offer.

'Kelly Hoppen has thrown down the gauntlet to the other dragons,

'opting not to negotiate and offering Joe exactly the deal he wanted.

'Duncan Bannatyne is the first to respond to this tactical move.'

-I'll tell you where I am, Joe.

-Yes, sir.

I think Kelly's offer was good. She offered you exactly what you wanted.

I don't see any reason to try and compete with that offer.

If she'd offered you the money for 50% or 40%,

I would have definitely come in and tried to negotiate a better deal.

But with her offer being exactly what you asked,

I think you should snap her arm off and take it!

-KELLY LAUGHS

-Thank you very much.

-But I have to say I'm out. HE LAUGHS:

-I knew that was coming.

'Joe has one offer and one rejection,

'but there are three dragons left.

'It's time for Deborah Meaden to decide whether this is a meaty enough investment for her.'

So, Joe... I AM going to make you an offer.

On equity terms, it's not as good as Kelly's.

-Mm-hm.

-The reason being I think you do need a LOT of work.

I think that what we've got is a good product, a good you,

-but actually, a lot of structure to put in there.

-Right.

So I'm going to make you an offer for the 37,500,

but I want 22%...

-..of the equity.

-OK.

I'm open to, uh...that.

See what else happens.

Joe, I'd like to work with you. It's just the question of...

..whether I could better those offers.

If you're looking for someone who's going to add something to it, you've got to understand more about me.

You know other dragons better than you know me. But I'm local.

I can pop down and we can "shoot the breeze", whatever you do.

I'll get a suit, if I have to. KELLY: That I'd want to see!

We can both stroll up and down Kentish Town High Street, increasing brand awareness.

So I'm going to make you an offer.

I'd offer you the full 37,500...

also for 22%.

'There's clearly an appetite to invest in the Den,

'as the dragons compete against each other for a stake in Joe's company.

'Will Peter Jones enter the race?'

Oh, dear. I tell you what, this is really difficult.

Sorry, Joe. This is one of those moments

where I normally would let the person pitching go to the back of the room and think about it,

but I want to go to the back of the room myself.

HE SIGHS

PETER: I'm going to make you an offer.

I'm going to be really creative.

Because I want the other party...

to join in some way, because I haven't met Captain...

-whatever his name is. What's his name?

-James Watt.

I feel like I'm in some movie scene at the moment, frankly.

LAUGHTER I've got Captain James Watt.

I've got Texan Joe in a suit.

This is the most surreal moment of my life.

But I'm going to want 25% of the business.

Mm-hm?

But I'm going to offer you £50,000,

which is £12,500 more than you're asking for today.

'It's a rare moment in the Den for a dragon to offer more cash than an entrepreneur requests.

'But for Joe to give away 25% of his equity

'would mean losing half his company, once the other investor's on board.'

Would you be willing to come down, um...

to, say, 23%,

so that I could maintain a controlling interest in the company?

I'd come down to 24, which gives you what you're trying to do. I see what you're trying to do.

I'd offer you £50,000 for 24% of the business.

-I'll accept your offer.

-Absolutely. It's the best offer you got.

Yeah. Thank you very much, pard'ner!

JOE LAUGHS Well done, cowboy.

-Thank you.

-Good man.

'Joe's done it.

'It was a tense finale, which resulted in him getting an experienced dragon on board

'AND a bigger investment than he went in for.'

And this is for you. Yeeeeee!

Hawwww!

'I knew what Peter can do for a brand,'

so I ended up giving away a higher equity,

but I think I have two great rock 'n' roll partners

and I look forward to having a beer with the both of them.

So, another dramatic day in the Den draws to a close.

Once the dragons had cottoned on to the marketing potential of Joe's product,

they ended up pitching against each other to invest

and he leaves the Den today as one happy cowboy.

You can join the conversation about any of tonight's pitches on Twitter.