Episode 10 Dragons' Den

Wealthy...

..astute,

innovative,

fearless

and shrewd.

These are the Dragons.

The heat is on in the Den.

Together with formidable business giants

Peter Jones and Deborah Meaden are...

Global fashion tycoon, with over 40 years retail experience,

Touker Suleyman.

The woman who turned her passion for food and drink

into a multi-million-pound business empire, Sarah Willingham.

And the man who sold his online greeting cards business

for £120 million, Nick Jenkins.

For entrepreneurs, it's the toughest business pitch of their lives.

Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?

Welcome back to Dragons' Den.

Open for business once again.

As ever, the stakes for our cash-hungry entrepreneurs are high.

Succeed, and depart with the financial backing

of a multi-millionaire Dragon investor.

Or fail, and leave with nothing.

Coming up on tonight's show...

SIRENS WAIL

I feel a little bit like I have just...

Somebody is trying to sell me snake oil.

Why would you want to take on that enormous responsibility?

I'm flabbergasted.

So, you want me to take MY money

from MY children, shall we say,

to give to you?

I suppose that's one way of putting it, yes.

My fellow Dragons have had an issue

with, perhaps, trying to put this together.

I don't.

I'm going to make you an offer.

Did that just happen?!

First to face the Dragons,

a beauty salon owner

who says she has what could be called

the Holy Grail of hair care -

a product which can prevent grey hair.

Anybody who hears about X-grey,

they get so excited and they just say,

"Oh, my God, when can I have some?"

I believe it has got the potential to be absolutely huge.

There has been times when I thought,

"I'm going to get five offers."

I just do not know what's going to happen when I go in there,

but I'm going to give it my best shot.

Hello, Dragons, my name is Sajda

and I am owner and founder of X-grey.

I am looking for a £50,000 investment

in return for 10% of my company.

X-grey is innovation at its best,

consisting of two unique formulated products,

currently not available on the market today.

I call my products X-grey Prevention and X-grey Chroma.

Market research has shown

that the number-one concern for men over the age of 40 is going grey.

What sets me apart from my competitors is,

firstly, there is no topical product

on the market for the prevention of grey hair, and,

secondly, my unique selling point for X-grey Chroma are...

It only needs to be applied for five minutes maximum

for 100% grey-hair coverage.

It does not cause any temporary staining to the skin,

has multiple applications,

and does not require any prepping or mixing prior to use.

I have spent the last 18 months

and £40,000 of my own money

to help develop these products.

Dragons, when you look in the mirror

and you can see your grey hairs,

think X-grey.

Thank you for listening.

I am just going to give you some products

before I can take some questions.

A dual offering from Leeds-based Sajda Rasheem.

-This is the woman's range.

-Thank you.

Two products.

One for dyeing, and the other for preventing grey hair.

Sajda is looking for £50,000

in return for a 10% stake in her business.

Preventing grey hair? I just...

..but Peter Jones wants to clarify

exactly what's on the table.

Sajda, you have got a lot more product up there,

but you are mainly a colouring

hair product, is that right?

And also a topical product

for the prevention of grey hair.

Tell me about that.

What have you got that can prove that you have a product

that prevents grey hair?

It's X-grey Prevention.

It has a combination of three active ingredients.

What it does is, it mimics

the Alpha-Melanocyte stimulating hormone,

which we already have in our body,

which is responsible

for rebuilding the melanoma pigment we have in our skin and hair.

Wow, this is sounding interesting.

So, when is the best time for me to take it?

My age range that I would be looking for prevention

would be from 25 upwards,

depending on when...

If they see the first grey hair coming through,

that would be when you would start using it.

If Sajda has genuinely discovered

a way of preventing grey hairs,

then her fortune could be made...

..but Deborah Meaden will clearly take some convincing.

I can't get beyond the fact that...

I feel a little bit like somebody is trying to sell me snake oil.

I just want to understand

how you can backup a claim that says,

"This prevents people going grey."

Because it mimics the

Alpha-Melanocyte stimulating hormone.

Please don't just keep repeating long words to me,

cos you said that in the first place.

-In terms of the actual testing of the product...

-Yep.

..that allows you to make claims to say this prevents -

and this isn't covering up -

this is actually saying that our hair colour,

our own hair colour - we prevent losing it, it doesn't go grey.

What is the testing that has been done on that?

I have done an efficacy study,

which has been done by a Chinese company,

and I also have the cosmetics company's

ex-vivo trials, as well, with me.

-Have you got those here?

-Yes. Would you like to see them?

So, this is the efficacy study that we have done.

And, inside here, which is a lot of reading,

is the one from the main cosmetic company.

What is an efficacy study from a Chinese company?

What does that actually mean?

So, the efficacy study is to see if the product actually works.

The age range of the volunteers,

how many grey hairs they had when they started using it,

day 14, day 28.

-So, how many people did you test it on?

-50.

Over what period of time?

28 days.

What happened during those 28 days?

There was an increase for the people who were younger -

so the early stages of greying hair.

So, if they had, let's say, four grey hairs out of 96,

by day 28, some of them had 100% back to their natural hair colour.

Sajda believes that she has the science to support her claims...

but Deborah Meaden is curious

as to why such a revolutionary product

has taken so long to hit the shelves.

-Sajda, this has been out since 2012, hasn't it?

-Yes.

So, in three years, nobody has bothered to mention the fact

that there is actually a product out there

that actually stops the greying of hair.

Do you not find that slightly odd?

No, not at all.

Why is that?

Because...

Hair-loss, to give you an example...

People don't jump on the bandwagon straightaway.

You have got to be kidding!

You have got to be kidding.

The person who actually, genuinely,

comes up with something that can prevent grey hairs

is going to be unbelievably wealthy.

They are going to be sitting in this chair, not in here pitching.

What makes me really, really cross about this is,

I absolutely cannot believe it works.

The list... The safety hazard data sheet is...

disgraceful.

It reads like a horror story.

Then I get to how it's tested.

It is tested on rabbit eyes.

That's the glycerine.

Inhalation of oral...for the mouse.

And rabbit skin.

It is not tested on animals.

There is one ingredient...

-That's tested on animals.

-..that's raw materials...

-Which has been tested in 2012.

-That is tested on animals.

-It says it is tested on animals.

-Absolutely.

-So, you can stand here

and say it is not tested on animals, this says it is tested on animals.

Yeah.

This type of thing makes me really cross.

You are doing it unethically,

you're making claims that you cannot possibly make

and you're trying to pull people

into buying a product that cannot do its job.

If I am wrong, I will stand up publicly and I will say it,

but I am not.

I'm out.

An incensed Deborah Meaden has turned down the deal...

..and something about the manufacturing process

is troubling Touker Suleyman.

-I just want to ask you a simple question.

-Yeah.

You developed this in some lab or some way...

No, I didn't develop it.

Sorry. I had a formulations team and a manufacturer develop it for me.

Fine. Whichever.

Do you honestly believe that,

if they knew what they had here,

that they wouldn't be shouting about it in the whole of America?

Absolutely, but I work with a manufacturer

who doesn't do any marketing.

He only manufacturers. He doesn't have the time for marketing.

It's like...

If you said to anybody in the world,

-"I can stop you going bald," and we have had all that...

-Yep.

..all a sudden, the business would be worth

billions before you even start.

-Aren't you ripping off somebody else's product?

-Not at all.

-But they are the manufacturer.

-This is what they do.

-This is what they do.

-If they are the manufacturer

and they have spent all of this money researching this

and little old you come along

and say, "Do you know what? I'll take that product

"and I'm going to go and develop my own brand."

What they do is, they make the innovative product.

Then the big boys - let's say if it's L'Oreal

or Johnson & Johnston or little old me - will go

and we'll purchase the formulation that they have

and that is how they make their business.

I, then, have increased the formulation by six times

to a 3%, which costs a lot more.

So, I own the formulations.

So you have increased the formula

and now you have come up with this Eureka piece.

Yep.

I'm going to tell you where I am very quickly,

because this is sort of a bold statement.

Yep.

The miracle cure...

I just don't buy into it...

..so I'm going to say that I'm out.

Further disappointment for Sajda

as Peter Jones dismisses her claims.

Will Sarah Willingham or Nick Jenkins

show any more faith in her anti-greying miracle?

This is, globally, an absolutely massive market.

These companies throw hundreds of millions at formulating

the right product to solve that particular problem.

It just seems too extraordinary to be true,

I just can't get past it.

I'm out.

I think you've come in here and I think you're a chancer.

I do not believe that this works, and, exactly like Deborah,

I will also stand up publicly and apologise if I'm wrong,

but I don't believe for a second that I am.

I'm out.

Thank you.

Four Dragons have rejected Sajda's business,

all unconvinced of her product's ability to deliver on its promises.

With only retail giant Touker Suleyman remaining,

she is a hair's breadth from failure.

Sajda, I think you believe...

..what you're told.

In reality, you are making

all these presumptions...

Wake up, dream's over.

I'm out.

Thank you very much, Dragons.

Sajda must leave the Den with nothing.

But despite the mauling she's just received,

her belief in her product remains unbroken.

They're so going to regret that.

-I do hope we're not wrong...

-If we are...

..because we have just turned down billions if we are.

I'm really disappointed that they actually thought I was a chancer.

I have a really good name in my industry.

I am waiting for the day when Sarah and Deborah stand up publicly

and apologise to me,

because I have got a phenomenal product.

Hoping they have a product which will provoke a more favourable reaction

are Gary McDonough, Laurent Gould and Ben Greenock.

Everything's going to be OK.

The entrepreneurial trio believe in wearing their hearts

firmly on their sleeves.

We're pretty confident that we're going to get investment today.

For me, I like Nick Jenkins.

I just like the fact that he scales up a business from scratch...

to exit for millions.

Nick Jenkins for me, too.

So, if you're listening, Nick...

-OK, let's do this.

-All right.

-Let's go.

-Hands in the middle.

Hi, I am Gary, and I'm the co-founder of Double.

I am here today with my two fellow co-founders, Ben and Laurent,

to ask you for £75,000 in exchange for 10% equity of our company.

Double is a location-based dating app, but for double dates.

It allows you to sign up with a friend

and then find other pairs nearby.

Double dates are inherently more fun, due to group dynamics,

there is less chance of awkward silences,

and safer due to safety in numbers.

Our vision at Double is to make dating fun

and safe for our generation.

-Over to Ben for a demo.

-Nice one.

How are you doing? So, you want to go on a double date,

but how does it work?

So, the first thing you see is the home screen

that shows you pairs nearby.

Before you can like or pass these pairs,

you need to double up with a friend.

You can see here, I've doubled up with Gary

so I can go back and like, and pass, pairs.

So, if a pair you've liked likes you back, that's a match.

That create a group conversation

between the four users within the app.

If I click on Lucy and Flick...

So, me and Gary, and Lucy and Flick can have a chat,

get some banter going,

find out what we like - but most importantly arrange a double date.

-Great demo, Ben.

-Thank you.

The online dating industry is growing at a rate of 5-10% per year.

By 2016, it is going to have over 100 million users in the space.

At present, there is no one app

that offers a group dating solution

or the ability to facilitate double dates.

So, Dragons,

we want to double up with you.

Together, we can be a part of what the Mail Online

and Marie Claire are calling the next Tinder.

Thank you very much,

and look forward to answering any of your questions.

A new take on online dating

from Gary McDonough, Laurent Gould and Ben Greenock,

who are seeking £75,000 in return for a 10% stake in their company.

Self-confessed romantic Touker Suleyman gets straight to the point.

-I am the only bachelor Dragon here.

-Oh!

-Perfect.

But I must admit,

I have never been on a online date.

Take me through the experience of why,

if I want a date with somebody,

I'd want to share with two others.

OK, so, I would say to that,

if you haven't experienced online dating for yourself,

as you freely admit,

things can get awkward and intimidating quite fast.

So, if you're with a friend, it mitigates these risks.

I mean, with all due respect,

I wouldn't necessarily say you're our target demographic

in regards to, not necessarily your age -

that wasn't an offensive comment...

Are you saying I'm too old?

No, you're saying you're confident.

So, you're saying, "I'm confident enough to go on a first date."

There's one third of people out there

who aren't confident enough to go on these dates.

That's the target demographic that we're trying to address.

-Guys, what's with the suits?

-The suits...

We're a young, dynamic, fun company

and we wanted to wear something that reflects our brand.

You want to stand out from the crowd,

you want to be the purple cow in the field.

Why would you call a company MoonPig?

If you want to stand out, be different.

That's because it was his nickname at school.

And this is the only suit I own.

I noticed you were like...

-"Let's do this" and your fist pumping, what is that?

-Fist-bumping.

It showcases the teamwork.

We're in it together. It's the teamwork.

But also, it's a little fun.

I mean, we're wearing these suits, so it doesn't make sense

to come here and give an incredibly dry presentation.

You want to have fun with it.

Guys, are you having people think that it's a swinging site?

That has come up once or twice.

Yeah. Absolutely.

But, hey, that's a whole new market.

I mean, it was the first thing I thought.

-Don't anyone read anything into that.

-We do not encourage it.

That was the fastest backpedal I have ever seen in the Den.

"Not really, I didn't mean that."

DEBORAH LAUGHS

Chemistry in the Den, as the entrepreneurial trio

make a positive first impression.

Touker Suleyman wants to find out

how they intend to convert flirting into finance.

If I want to join - not that I do, by the way -

-but if I want to join...

-You do.

What will you charge? How do you make your money?

At the moment, the app is free, and it's always going to be free,

but we aim to introduce a premium model this summer.

We're already working on it.

At present, you can like or dislike people anonymously,

but if you really like someone, if someone catches your eye,

you can then send them a notification of interest.

What we would do is charge the user for that notification of interest.

Give me a shape of what that's going to look like.

-In terms of financial projections?

-Yeah.

So, brace yourself for this.

At the end of year one, we're looking to have 45,000 users

with a gross of £16,000 profit,

but a net loss of £98,000.

Year two, we're looking to have 490,000 users

with a gross of £240,000 profit,

but a net loss of £63,000.

Then, in year three,

we're looking to have 4.5 million users

with a gross of £2.4 million and a net profit - finally got there -

of £1.3 million.

OK, so you are looking to lose £150,000

between now and the next two years?

Yes.

Where's the other money going to come from to fund the losses?

So, this £75,000 is the start of an initial round, which we are

looking to raise.

The remaining 75,000 would be through other investors.

So, if I was to invest in you today

and you want to go and fundraise,

do I then dilute further?

We would need to discuss that at a later date.

-No, we need to discuss that now.

-OK.

No, it would come out of our share.

You dilute your share?

It would be part of the same round.

So, no.

Peter Jones has extracted a guarantee

that further fundraising wouldn't result in a drop in Dragon equity.

Online brand builder Nick Jenkins

could be Gary, Laurent and Ben's perfect match.

Guys, I think you're really onto something,

because it's a very elegant way of solving the awkwardness

of that first encounter.

-Have you done online dating?

-Yes, I did, actually. A few years ago.

Part of the awkwardness is that you meet someone,

you go on a date, and it's because,

OK, at the end of this evening,

we have to say, "Do you like me or do you not like me?"

And I have always found that really quite awkward.

In a way, I can see how this is just, actually,

a much less pressured route to dating.

So, I'm going to offer you all of the money,

but I am going to offer it for 20%.

I think that partly reflects the risk factor that...

This is a great idea, but it is still very embryonic.

A good start for the entrepreneurs as their preferred Dragon investor

breaks the ice with a £75,000 offer.

Assuming the double daters

are prepared to give up double the equity.

Can Sarah William, who made a fortune in the food industry,

see past her earlier concerns

and add the dating site to her business portfolio?

Guys, I can't think of a situation where...

I could have gone on a good double date, if that makes sense.

Where we wouldn't have fancied the same bloke or

they wouldn't have fancied one of us and not the other.

I can't get past that.

I'm sure it is going to cause more friendship break-ups

than it is marriages. I just can't get past it.

Good luck with everything, but I'm afraid, on this one, I'm out.

Guys, I think you've...

It's a really good pitch.

It just isn't something that...

I think it might be a lack of knowledge,

because I've been lucky enough not to have to apply

to go on a dating site.

It's amazing what money does in your life, isn't it?

LAUGHTER

It just hasn't grasped me.

This isn't for me.

I'm going to say that I'm out.

Both Sarah Willingham and Peter Jones

have now given the online daters the elbow.

Touker Suleyman might not be their target market,

but that's not to say he couldn't be the trio's dream investor.

Guys, I'm going to make you an offer.

I will offer you all the money, £75,000...

..for 20%.

And there's probably some benefits where there could be...

some free accommodation for you,

there could be some tech support

if need be,

but it all depends how we structure it.

With two matching offers of £75,000 for 20% already on the table,

have Gary, Laurent and Ben stirred Deborah Meaden's passion for a deal?

Guys, I didn't wake up this morning thinking,

"I want to investing a dating site."

It's not particularly been on my agenda,

but you are good.

I can see, as a collective, how it would work,

and the energy and the ideas you've got -

so I, too, am going to make you an offer.

I'm actually going to make you two offers.

So, I'm going to offer you all of the money...

..and I want 20% of the business.

I'm going to offer you half of the money...

for 10% of the business and I would be very happy,

if Nick was up for it, to share.

Competition is hotting up...

..as Deborah Meaden weighs in with a dual offer.

The full £75,000 for 20%,

or half the cash for half the equity -

but she will only partner up with Nick Jenkins.

Leaving Touker Suleyman jilted.

Nick and Deborah, your offer is very appealing,

but is there any chance you would be willing to come down to 7.5%,

collectively 15% from the same equity share?

You want to be making a noise in a busy life

and I want to be able to give you...

the attention that you need.

I worry that, if I drop below 10%...

You're essentially paying a premium for our involvement

and what we can add to the business -

which is very, very different from just getting money from somebody

who puts the money and shut their eyes

and hopes that is going to do something.

It's a very different thing...

..but I would be prepared to do £75,000 for 15%.

-OK.

-On your own?

On my own.

A surprising development as Nick Jenkins snubs Deborah Meaden

in a last-minute bid to snare the deal.

We came in here with a game plan and it's worked,

so we would like to accept your offer.

-Hey!

-APPLAUSE

-Thanks very much.

-Thank you.

So, no love lost in the Den as Dragon turns on Dragon.

But for Gary, Laurent and Ben, it's a marriage made in heaven.

That was so surreal.

"What are we doing?"

Group hug.

-Very, very surreal.

-Exhilarating.

I am over the MoonPig.

LAUGHTER

I see what you did there.

Still to come on tonight's show...

It doesn't rely on any technology

and it doesn't rely on a mobile signal,

and it doesn't rely on your website working.

-If I can respond...

-Do.

And have the Dragons finally met their match?

SIRENS BLARE

This is the first time that blood has been spilt in the Den.

Braving the Den next

is an accountant who, in his spare time, has come up with

a piece of technology that he says will save lives.

But can Bristol-based Chris Ford

break through the number-cruncher stereotype

and convince the Dragons he's an idea man, too?

Accountants can be boring, but people describe me as being

a number-cruncher, Harley-riding superhero.

So I'd like to think I break the norm.

One of my key motivators is helping other people

and with this particular product it could actually save a life.

And I don't think there's anything better than that.

Hello, Dragons.

Thank you for seeing me today.

My name is Chris Ford from Tap2Tag Ltd

and I'm seeking a £75,000 investment

for a 20% stake in the company.

So what is Tap2Tag?

Well, we sell scannable medical alert devices,

wristbands in particular,

that with a simple tap of a mobile phone

enable first responders to get almost immediate access

to critical life-saving information

in the event of an emergency.

By simply tapping a mobile phone against one of our devices

the information appears on the screen.

We've harnessed a new technology

that is built into most mobile phones sold throughout the UK

called Near Field Communication,

or NFC.

In the UK alone there are 3.2 million people living with diabetes,

850,000 diagnosed with dementia,

and a further 600,000 living with epilepsy.

We feel our product could significantly benefit those

with these types of medical conditions.

We've sold over 700 units to date.

Our customers really like it because there are no subscription fees

and they're priced at a really affordable £20 a unit.

HE CLEARS HIS THROAT

Erm...

So, we need some funding for two main reasons.

The first is to raise the awareness of the product

with both the medical profession and the public,

but also we want to enhance the website

to provide more functionality.

We think we've got a great product that's already benefiting the lives

of many of our customers, and I really hope you do, too.

A potentially life-saving wristband is the product

on offer from Chris Ford.

Thank you.

He's looking for £75,000

in return for 20% equity in his tech-based company.

But his pitch has left Sarah Willingham

with more questions than answers.

Chris, I fundamentally don't get it.

If I walk down the street,

somebody's fallen over,

what do I do?

My phone isn't NFC approved.

Well, if you don't know that your phone is NFC enabled...

I don't even know what it is, actually, if I'm being honest.

It's Near Field Communication

and it needs an internet connection.

OK, so, what do I do? Get my phone out and...

Tap it against the device.

..and tap it against the device.

What we call the Public Profile pops up.

It's got the picture, the name of the individual,

their age and a public message.

That public message could be anything that the wearer's chosen.

So it might say "I have asthma."

So in order for this to work

the paramedics have all got to know what it is.

And that is why we need the money.

But to get it out to all the paramedics...

Back in June last year we notified

every single ambulance trust in the UK about the product

and how to deal with it.

Trying to get that awareness out there

is our prime focus for this year.

What of the other options available that are out there?

At the moment there are various

types of bracelet, necklaces, et cetera which people can

write their medication on,

put it in a little necklace, screw it tight.

Some people wear a wristband that just says "diabetes"

or "epilepsy".

Perhaps you could just have an app

as opposed to having to buy something like this.

There are plenty of apps on the market where you can

control your medication.

The problem is, having spoken to a number of paramedics about this,

they will not look at a mobile phone

if they have a prone patient in front of them.

They are concentrating on the ABCs of first aid -

airways, breathing, circulation.

The only place they are almost guaranteed to look is on a wrist.

It sounds so obviously a good idea

it's almost like this should sit with the NHS

and you should be offering a service -

you providing the software

and the NHS just handing these out to patients

as they go out almost on prescription.

This week I had a meeting with an NHS trust

over in the south-east of England.

They're really interested in this.

Once we get the trial under way and we get approval,

then that opens up many, many more doors within the NHS.

Doubts about whether his medical wrist tags

can be rolled out across the health service

are neatly boxed off by the entrepreneur

but it's left Nick Jenkins wondering

if he's been listening to the same pitch as his fellow Dragons.

Chris, I just... I just don't get it.

I honestly think you've just massively overcomplicated

an otherwise simple solution.

And sometimes in those life-and-death situations

the simplest solution is absolutely the best.

You've an SOS band, it's got a piece of paper inside it,

you can get quite a lot of information onto that piece of paper

and it doesn't rely on any technology.

And it doesn't rely on a mobile signal,

and it doesn't rely on your website working.

-If I can respond...

-Do.

This is an aid.

The information that is available, potentially,

even if it goes down or anything else happens,

is either going to be an aid or irrelevant

because the paramedics are already dealing with the patient in front of them.

If the system failed,

then we are making no guarantees, overtly,

that it's going to be up all the time.

But you don't know how many of these things are active

because you're not asking anyone to pay a subscription.

I can't believe... This is a life-and-death situation

and you aren't saying, "Pay me £5 a year

"so I can maintain the software for this ad infinitum.

"£5 a year so that you can actually let me know

"that you're still wearing it."

You have no idea how many people out there

are relying on your technology

to help a paramedic when anything goes wrong.

Nick Jenkins' serious concerns about the effectiveness of the product

in a life-or-death situation

has changed the mood in the Den.

And Touker Suleyman is ready to state his position.

Chris...

What would it cost to maintain the website?

The website alone, £150 a month.

Surely if things go down, things go wrong,

you have to update certain things...

-It never stops.

-No.

Technology never stops.

If you are telling me that it is going to cost you £150

for the rest of your life to maintain it...

and you're an accountant, it worries me.

And then probably somebody else will say

"I'm not going to sell it for £20, it's £10." And out-price you.

There's that risk.

Correct?

That is always a risk. Indeed.

So, here's where I stand.

Erm... There's nothing that says that is unique to you.

It is a dream that you've got.

For that reason, I'm not going to invest and I'm out.

With Nick Jenkins' damning assessment of the product

still hanging in the air,

Touker Suleyman becomes the first Dragon to exit the deal.

Deborah Meaden already has investments in the health sector -

is she the Dragon to help roll this out?

I've actually got many products throughout the NHS.

It's not easy, by the way.

Even... Really, it's not easy.

But this is one of those products that if it was going to take off

would have to be done in a complete way,

because you have to have total recognition.

So you have got to have buy-in

from ALL of the ambulance services, not just half a dozen -

two here and one over there -

So it has to be done in a big way.

Not in a "£75,000 and we'll do a bit of marketing and PR."

You'll have to have a date by which you switch on

and everybody knows exactly what is there.

And I just think... You're a long way from that,

IF it's the right thing to do.

I'm really sorry, Chris,

but I won't be investing! So I'm out.

Thank you.

Chris, I love technology.

I love all kinds of technology

but I do think that you're well below the curve

in terms of where technology is going.

If you play with a phone,

you know that you can put your thumbprint now

and it will recognise you over another person.

You should be thinking more about fingerprint recognition,

so that you literally have to take somebody's thumbprint

on the screen of a mobile phone device.

It doesn't necessarily even need to have, potentially, a connection.

Think about that.

I think this is old technology

and I think it's quite risky technology

because it is not always going to be useful.

So, I'm not going to invest,

and say that I'm out.

Bad news for Chris as two more Dragons walk away from the deal.

And Nick Jenkins has further blows to deliver.

I have a big issue with this.

BIG issue.

How much do you make on one of these bands?

If we are selling them for £10 a unit,

we are making £5.60.

OK, so if this goes right, you make £5.60

for the rest of the life of that band,

because there was no subscription fee.

If you don't maintain that software

all the way through the life of that band,

for years to come, and it cocks up...

You're taking an enormous amount of risk for a tiny, tiny reward.

Why would you want to take on that enormous responsibility?

I'm flabbergasted.

I'm out.

Chris has failed to convince four of the Dragons

that his device can be trusted to help patients

with known medical conditions in an emergency.

His last hope of investment now rests with Sarah Willingham.

Chris, given the choice between this

or a piece of paper in the bracelet

I would still go for the piece of paper in the bracelet

because I would feel that more people would know that exists,

would read it, and it would give the necessary information

to the right people at the right time.

I'm afraid I'm not going to invest, so I'm out.

Thank you.

A dangerous amount of risk is the view from Nick Jenkins,

as Chris Ford's bid for investment in his medical device

fails to convince the Den.

I hope he appreciates that actually he doesn't want to take that on.

I hope he stops it.

It was a shame that Nick went down the route of lambasting the product.

I think it did sour the pot a little bit with some of the other Dragons.

Maybe I should have fought harder against it.

It's very difficult when he expresses it so passionately.

So to our final investment opportunity of the day,

delivered by a former military man whose long army career

has provided him with the inspiration for an unusual business.

Please be advised that no zombies were harmed

during the making of this pitch.

I've been a soldier and officer since the age of 16.

When I was approaching leaving my full-time army career

I was very nervous.

I thought, "Can I take those skills that I've learnt from the military

"and turn them into some form of business?"

ALARM SOUNDS

What the...?

SIRENS

GROWLS

Oh, my God...!

Did that just happen?!

Good afternoon, Dragons.

My name is Roy Fitter,

and I'm the owner-founder of Ram Training Ltd.

Ram Training is a small company based in the Midlands

and we specialise in delivering fast-paced,

very visceral, first-person horror events.

We have Zombie Boot Camp, The Asylum,

Zombie Boot Camp After Dark,

and Wolfmen, which is a werewolf survival experience.

25,000 people have now turned up at our site

and done one or more of these events.

What I've come here for today

is to look at developing the company

by forming a new part of the business

and it's to develop one or two satellite sites

in the United Kingdom over the next two to three years.

And we're looking for £80,000

for 20% of the equity.

Dragons, thank you very much.

This is my short pitch, and I'll be happy to take any questions.

A spine-tingling entrance from Roy Fitter,

who is pitching for £80,000

in return for a 20% stake in a new offshoot

of his horror role-playing business.

Sarah Willingham wants to find out

exactly what his customers can expect.

Roy, that was horrifying.

Very real.

So, what...?

I still can't quite picture what people are booking,

if you see what I mean.

So let's say I've got a hen do and there are ten girls -

what are we paying for?

What we do is put you in a position

that you are a member of the public

and you have been brought in by the military to be trained.

You go through the clearance of a building,

all of the site is all laid out in individual scenarios.

So you will basically train me

in the event of a zombie apoc...apoc...

I can't say that word either.

You will basically train me in the event of a zombie takeover...

Yes.

-..to kill them.

-Yes.

That's the experience that I'm buying?

Roy is offering the paying public

a chance to take on his army of fake zombies.

But battling the undead is clearly not everyone in the Den's cup of tea.

Roy...

I've never been into horror.

I'm much more of a gentle, romantic person, you know?

Anyway...erm...

Tell us what your ideal booking would be.

And what would somebody pay for it?

85% of my clients are stag groups

and we are seeing an increase in hen parties.

On average a customer pays £78 per person,

and most sales are for groups of 12 to 16 persons.

OK, what's your turnover?

What we've sold in 2015,

on predicted sales on what we've got in our order book,

we've made sales of £284,000.

It costs us £200,000 to run the current company.

It gives us a net figure

before corporation tax of £84,000.

Roy's existing zombie business

is very much alive and kicking.

But Sarah Willingham wants to find out more

about his planned subsidiary.

The satellite... So we're talking about this new company.

-Why is that different from what you do at the moment?

-OK.

What we've been asked over the past few years,

when a customer's done our existing overnight packages, they keep asking

is there any way they can have a more intimate

evening scenario event.

So what we're looking at for the satellite site

is a secluded farmhouse

and the difference is that you're actually defending the property...

-Ah, OK...

-against the werewolves.

-The werewolves attack.

It allows us to bring more technology into the buildings

and add more flavour.

So why don't you do this as part of your current business?

It sounds like the obvious extension.

I'm absolutely happy with the team that we can plan, we can execute these events,

but what I'm not happy with

is the ability to take new projects on and grow them.

However, I am convinced that with the right tutorage

I can take and do something equally as good,

and equally as profitable.

That's the reason I'm standing here today.

So you're saying that our investment today

will not involve Ram.

No.

You want to start a brand-new business.

Yes.

Why?

It's my... It's my and my son's futures

what we currently do with the business.

So you want me to take the risk of a new business

while you and your son can set it up in the Bahamas?

Is that what you're saying?

Yeah, I suppose that's one way of putting it. Yeah.

So you want me to take my money from my children, shall we say,

to give to you for you and your children.

Am I right or wrong?

You are right.

By offering only the new part of his business up for investment,

Roy has irked the Dragons.

And Peter Jones wants to get to the bottom

of this unusually structured deal.

I don't know whether you are as naive as you're coming across.

You talk to us about a business

which you've run and set up for many years,

you're making good money,

and then you say, "But actually I just want to do something

"very similar, and I want you to give me some money.

"And also I want you to help me try to do that

"because I don't really know how to do it."

Am I missing something?

I've established a firm base

in what I currently do at the moment.

And I'm asking to work with somebody that we can then

look at taking another project on a slightly different platform

to the same success.

The predicted turnover I've assessed in that respect,

£190,000 a year,

with a £92,000-a-year running cost

which then gives a pre-tax profit of £98,000.

We're very good at what we do.

But do you also recognise that from our perspective,

the problem is if you divide your time and...

your loyalties between two very, very similar businesses,

so you immediately create a problem.

A juicy contract comes in and you think,

"Well, do I put it through Ram or do I put it through Ram 2?"

It creates a conflict.

Standing here now, I feel kind of foolish.

I can see you all looking and going...

"Well, the pitch wasn't correct, was it?"

If I could walk out those doors and march back in tomorrow morning,

I probably would do.

Roy's visit to the Den is rapidly going downhill.

But will the admission that he's got his pitch wrong

carry any weight with Deborah Meaden?

You've been lovely and honest.

You've actually said, "You know, it's almost the same business

"but I'm really worried about the next bit

"because that's the bit that will get a bit more complicated

"and I'm going to need help with running."

It's a shame you hadn't...

..put those two together before you came into the Den.

Because it just is not, for me, an investable structure.

So I'm afraid I won't be investing. I'm out.

I think it would be unfair to ask you to consider

pitching the two businesses together

because I think it's a big emotional decision for you to do.

And I don't think it's one that you can do here and now.

But, erm... I'm afraid I can't invest on that basis.

I'm out.

A tactical error has already cost Roy investment from two of the Dragons.

Can Touker Suleyman

or Sarah Willingham see beyond his reluctance to make

his existing profitable business part of the deal?

Roy, if you did walk out of here

and you don't do anything

with any of us, you've actually got a nice business.

I may well be a customer...

You've actually given me a great idea for my husband's next birthday.

I think it will be an awesome weekend.

But in its current form, with the separation of the two,

it's just not investable.

So I'm afraid, on that basis, I'm out.

From what you're saying,

if people are booking way ahead

-and you're taking deposits... Yes?

-Yes.

-You must have cash in hand.

-Yes.

I believe you've got the money in the business.

You can look forward, and you can build this business up yourself.

So I'm going to give you the chance to make more money on your own,

because I'm not going to invest in you. I'm out.

Four Dragons are now out.

Is Peter Jones poised to hammer the final nail in the coffin?

This is the first time that blood has been spilt in the Den.

And be it that my fellow Dragons

have had an issue with perhaps trying to put this together

and they think it is slightly unfair...I don't.

I'm going to make you an offer.

But I want the business that you currently run.

So I'm going to offer you all of the money - £80,000 -

for 30% of Ram Training

and this new subsidiary.

Thank you.

The advice has been absolutely sound

and makes total sense.

It's just that I have to go back and sit down and talk to my wife.

I'm being honest, you know, my wife's my wingman.

I've got the loyalties there and I can't just say yes when she says no.

And is your wife waiting in the lift?

No, she's not waiting in the lift.

She's not a zombie.

She's at home doing the housework.

She's going to kill you for saying that.

The wife is not...you know,

I'm not certain she'd say no, it's just that...

Roy, I own a company called Red Letter Days,

and we do some of these events.

I think this is huge. This is massive in the States.

And I think it's becoming bigger over here every minute.

And I will give you the support of my people -

they will be behind you -

and also we will clearly push it,

and give you the profile to millions of people up and down the country.

Roy, I'm going to have to push you, whether you...

I'm afraid I can't make that decision today.

Roy, on that basis, I'm going to have to declare myself out.

Unwilling to pull rank on his other half,

Roy must depart with nothing.

For visitors to the Den,

unlike the undead,

there can be no second chances.

Hindsight is an expensive commodity.

If I could watch that rewind and come back tomorrow, then, yes,

I would've come in with a completely different pitch.

But what's happened's happened.

-Shall we clean up the blood?

-No.

Let's leave the blood on the floor for the next person who comes in!

That's a great idea!

Drama-filled events in the Den.

Real drama for the trio from Double

who got to shake on a deal with Nick Jenkins.

Drama of a different kind for Sajda and Chris,

who both received a scorching.

And then, of course, zombie drama.

Scary enough, but the Den is always most scary

for the entrepreneurs who dare to enter.

Bring those feet wide,

sit back...

Next time in the Den...

This is the only thing that you have!

This is a worthless piece of paper.

You are incredibly investable on one hand,

but you've made yourself uninvestable on the other

by such a ridiculous valuation.

Unless you've got the IP,

everyone's just going to sit here and rip you apart.

I'm going to make you an offer

and it is for all of the money, on the terms that you have asked for

because I think it would be kind of rude not to.