Episode 12 Dragons' Den

Wealthy...

..astute,

innovative...

..fearless

and shrewd.

These are the Dragons.

DRAGON ROARS

The heat is on in the Den.

Together with formidable business giants Peter Jones

and Deborah Meaden are...

..global fashion tycoon with over 40 years retail experience,

Touker Suleyman.

The woman who turned her passion for food and drink

into a multi-million pound business empire,

Sarah Willingham.

And the man who sold his online greetings card business

for £120 million, Nick Jenkins.

For entrepreneurs, it's the toughest business pitch of their lives.

Do they have what it takes to face the Dragons?

DRAGON ROARS

Welcome to Dragons' Den,

where five of the UK's best-connected business brains

are ready to invest their own money in ideas and inventions -

from beauty to retail to recycling.

Waiting in the wings are entrepreneurs

desperate to secure some cash.

But the rule is,

they must get an offer of all the money they've asked for

or they leave with nothing.

CHICKEN CLUCKS

The Dragons will be fine.

I believe that I have more time than any Dragon here.

-You've really got to get to the point here.

-I'm sorry.

You know, give me a break. Cut to the point please.

Potentially, you could be a bit all over the place in life as well.

I'm not, I'm just very nervous, man.

I couldn't work with you.

I'm so sorry to say that.

I've got to tell you, I like it.

I think I'm going to make you an offer

but it's going to be quite a ballsy offer.

First into the Den are a young couple

who've only been in business a few months

but who've created a beauty product with a difference.

We'll see whether its key ingredient will give the Dragons a kick.

We're boyfriend and girlfriend, we met at school.

We've been together for roughly about four to five years.

I'm scared, just a bit nervous.

I'm feeling a little bit nervous

but I'm also excited at the same time

to show them our brand and our product just to see what they think.

I'm expecting to get completely grilled and teared apart

but hopefully I've got the answers to back it up

and hopefully they invest today.

Hi, everyone. My name's Lloyd and this is my partner, Tash

and we co-own the company Grounded Body Scrub.

Today we're asking for £30,000 for 15% in our company.

Grounded Body Scrub is a robust coffee-based body scrub,

which targets common skin problems such as cellulite, stretch marks,

varicose veins, eczema, acne and scarring.

In Australia, coffee scrubs are massive at the moment.

Market leaders last year turned over £20 million.

In the UK and around Europe,

coffee scrubs haven't really been heard of

and the research we've done, not a lot of people know about them.

At the moment, we've got three scrubs on sale.

So, we've got a coconut scrub, a grapefruit scrub

and also our chocolate orange scrub.

Our scrubs contain no nasty chemicals,

fillers and they're also not tested on animals.

In our first month of trading, we had a turnover of £10,000.

We currently sell on our website and notonthehighstreet.com

Last week we were messaged by Urban Outfitters in the USA

and they're really interested in the brand,

so we sent products to Philadelphia

and we're now a confirmed vendor of them.

We would use your investment for bulk ingredients

for the orders that we're going to be getting.

We would use it for advertising and also for marketing.

We found that we've created the best brand

and with your investment we could help make it

the biggest scrub on the shelves at the moment.

Partners Lloyd Hazell and Tasha Harris

are looking for £30,000 for a 15% share

of their coffee-fuelled body scrub business.

-They do smell like coffee as well.

-It's divine.

Deborah Meaden is first to scratch the surface of this unusual product.

So, what's the known philosophy

behind using coffee as part of a treatment?

It originated in Bali originally.

It makes you feel really good after you've had it.

It will just sort of perk your skin up,

help blood circulation.

What are the joys of it?

You have to really use it to know how good it makes your skin feel.

Not any other scrub apart from the coffee scrub

will make your skin feel that smooth.

When did you start trading and how much have you turned over to date?

-We've traded for three months.

-Yeah.

We've turned over £11,900.

Basically, they retail at £13.50.

To make, it's about £2.10.

What is it that you've got that somebody couldn't do themselves?

I'm not going to lie to you.

Someone else could make another different scrub themselves

and copy the same idea, but we've already got the name out there.

And I think with these scrubs I can definitely see it in a store.

Boots grounded shelf in the shop

that they'd actually retail our products and they'd sell.

What have you done before this?

Well, I'm actually a music producer.

I've upcycled furniture as well and rebuild cars.

You've already given me the feeling

that you're a bit all over the place.

And potentially you could be a little bit all over the place

in life as well.

I'm not, I'm just very nervous, man.

I've got it all together, honestly. I'm really just nervous to...

I love that you've just said, "I'm really nervous, man"

-to Peter Jones. I love that.

-I am sorry. I'm just really...

-No, I love it!

-SHE LAUGHS

Sorry, I didn't mean to call you man.

Lloyd's candid approach to the most important business pitch

of his life has certainly entertained the Den.

But will he and Tasha be able to cope with the more intense interrogation

of their product's health claims?

Tasha, can I ask you about the active ingredients in this?

It's coffee.

For me, I've had eczema all my life,

so this is the only thing that's ever really got rid of it.

And what is it that's got rid of it?

The main thing that gets rid of it is that

it will exfoliate the top layer of skin cells.

Whereas if you just get topical creams from doctors,

they don't do that cos they just apply sort of steroids.

That's really bad for your face.

So have you got a magical cure then, do you think?

No, it's not. It really does work.

When I first started going out with Tasha, her face...

I'm not being horrible.

In the winter, as soon as it started turning cold, her whole...

above her lip was completely crusty.

I'd look at her and she'd be so angry

cos she couldn't even talk cos her face was that sore.

And since we started making this, it's completely...

There's still a tiny bit, you can see it a tiny bit.

-THE DRAGONS LAUGH

-Oh, I'm only joking, I'm joking.

Are you fairly confident about...

You're making some quite radical claims here.

I'd put my name to it that it works on people.

-Well, good cos you have!

-That would be good,

if you were a doctor but you're not,

you do up cars.

Finding it difficult to back up their claims

of the body scrub's medicinal qualities,

Lloyd and Tasha's investment bid now appears to be on shaky ground.

Will a quick shot of support from Sarah Willingham

perk up their pitch?

I actually love and have used many times coffee scrubs

and I think they're fantastic. And they do work.

And I do struggle to get a really good one in the UK.

It's nowhere near as good as the one I got from Oz,

nowhere near. Can you just tell us a little bit more about that deal

-that you're talking about with Urban Outfitters?

-Yeah.

They said, "Oh, hi. We really love your brand, Grounded,

"it's something we'd definitely like to work with."

And we're literally waiting for an order.

-They've confirmed that they're going to order with you?

-Yeah.

Lloyd and Tasha, Urban Outfitters...

-Yeah.

-..I deal with them.

You normally find that when they order, they'll trial it.

-They won't put it into all the stores.

-Yeah.

They may put it into six stores or eight stores.

When that's on a shelf in Urban Outfitters,

what concerns me visually as a retailer

would be how would my customer know...

..what it does?

I think the end product might be great

-but you've got to market it.

-Yeah.

-You've got to get the customers to know what it is...

-Yeah, sure.

And I'm worried about that.

Basically I'm going to spend at least £15,000 of my own money

pushing it in every way I can to get it out there,

so that people know what Grounded Body Scrub is.

-£15,000 of your own money?

-Yeah, yeah.

So, why do you need our money?

I'd love to work with one of you.

I think you'd get us through to the right people

and I think once we test the product on them

and they see all the branding, I think they'll buy into it really.

I think you've done a great job in such a short space of time.

Perhaps you're six months too early.

-You've got £15,000?

-Yeah.

-Put it into the business.

-I know, I'm going to, definitely.

Grow the business to a point where you take it to the next level.

It's not for me. It's too small and for that reason, I'm out.

Parting words of advice but no cash

as the young entrepreneurs lose their first Dragon.

Can Deborah Meaden see a lucrative future

in this beauty business start-up?

What I'm not getting from you

-is a sense of your business experience...

-Yeah.

..and also what your different roles are.

I do the manufacturing. Tasha does the speaking to customers

cos she's better than me at talking to people.

Like, in a weird way she's got the...

She kind of talks like they're sort of flirting,

that's the kind of way the company talks to them.

-It is, it's like...

-It's like you've taken a truth pill.

It's like you can't help yourself

saying that stuff that's in your head.

So, do you understand... Have you ever done accounts,

-management accounts?

-We've literally been trading for three months,

so it's something we need to get into.

You're running it instinctively at the moment

but do you appreciate that as you get bigger...

-Yeah, definitely.

-..you can't run it instinctively?

-100%.

I don't want to do anything.

I want someone else to help me out to do it.

You need one person who's going to give you their time,

who's going to give you their attention,

who's going to make sure it is targeted.

There is something about you but it's very, very start-up.

It's going to need a very, very focused approach,

so I'm afraid I won't be making you an offer.

-I'm out.

-Thank you.

Lloyd, Tasha, I'm going to just tell you where I am.

You just said, I quote,

"I don't want to do anything, I want someone else to do it."

Yeah, I didn't mean it like that, it was bad wording.

I know you didn't mean it but sometimes when people say things...

-Yeah.

-..there has a subliminal meaning.

I think you two are going to need an intense amount of work.

And my concern is that I think you are too early-stage

and there are going to be lots of people out there

-that are going to want to go on that journey.

-Yeah.

I don't want to go on that journey.

You're going to need somebody at the end of that phone constantly

to give you guidance.

And I'm not the man for that.

So, I'm going to say I'm out.

The bitter taste of regret

as Lloyd pays the price for his laid-back style

and loses a third Dragon in Peter Jones.

Nick Jenkins,

who had earlier concerns about the product's medicinal benefits,

has now made up his mind.

You've got a business, which could be a good lifestyle business.

But there's a massive leap taking this on to the next level

and my fear as an investor

is that £30,000 isn't going to cut the mustard.

It's probably going to require a few hundred thousand pounds.

I just think it's going to take too much work

to turn this into a business that's going to give a return

to an investor, so I'm not going to invest. I'm out.

More disappointment for the couple, four Dragons gone.

None wanting to take a risk on such a fledgling business.

Their only hope of investment rests with Sarah Willingham.

I think there is room for Coffee Scrub,

I really do, in the UK.

I think it'll get more and more publicity.

And I think more and more people will start to learn

about the benefits of using it.

I am...quite concerned about how much help you're going to need.

But I...

I like it, there's something in it.

And there's something in you guys where I think you're actually,

you're proper grafters.

Thanks.

So, I think I'm going to make you an offer

but it's going to be quite a ballsy offer.

You're going to need a lot of work.

It's not just the phone calls, it's not just the introductions.

Actually, it would be a lot of time mentoring

and ending up working with you guys.

But I am going to make you an offer...

I'm going to offer you all the money but I want 45% of the business.

OK, thanks.

Is it all right to have a talk?

Yeah, of course.

It's the only offer on the table but there's still a lot to consider.

Are they willing to give up nearly half of their company?

30% more than they were looking to sell.

THEY WHISPER

-Yeah, we'd like to accept your offer.

-Oh, that's fantastic.

Oh, I'm really pleased. That's great news. Really, really good.

-Thank you.

-Fantastic.

-Well done.

-Congratulations, guys.

-Well done.

An early deal in the Den,

as Sarah Willingham trusts her instincts

and buys into Lloyd and Tasha's dream

of launching coffee-based body treatments in the UK.

Wow.

That's crazy.

I love the product, I really do and I could get passionate.

And I loved them.

When Sarah invested it was amazing.

-Yeah.

-It was quite a relief not to go home without an investment.

If she can get it into some big stores, that would be...excellent.

Next into the Den is Pete Ancketill, a former osteopath from London.

He's invented a device that could simplify waste disposal

in bars and restaurant.

Sitting in a pub one day and hearing the noise of the bottles clanging

and smashing around, I found it was an affront to my ears,

so I decided to build something that would make that different.

I'd like to become the best at what we do.

I know my business, I know what I want

and if I don't get it from the Dragons,

I'll get it from someone else.

Hello, everybody.

My name's Pete Ancketill and I own a company called Glassbusters.

We are a specialist compaction, collection and recycling company

and I'm looking for £200,000 investment

for a 10% stake in Glassbusters.

If I can talk you through the product.

The very first thing in any bar that clutters up the environment

is the bottles.

In a very busy bar, the bottle will be taken off the bar,

put into a bin, which then has to be handled and dealt with by bar staff.

And the time away from the bar, is time away from making money.

Now, our compaction system, which we have patented,

involves the delivery of a bottle straight down the chute,

it goes through the silencer, into the basement and gets compacted.

The idea is the bottles are taken off the bar immediately.

If I can just demonstrate the machines to you now.

The machines are all automatic.

-So, as soon as the bottle goes in...

-GLASS SMASHES

So, if you can imagine this is a bar top,

that's how quickly the bottles go down into the bottom.

Now, we manufacture the machines, we install the machines,

and most importantly, we also collect the glass.

As a specialist recycler,

it's a very important part of the message

that the glass is turned back into a usable product,

which means the bottles get turned back into bottles.

We have systems exactly like this in London

that have processed in excess of 7.5 million bottles

over the last nearly three years.

OK. That's Glassbusters and can I take your questions.

A measured pitch from Pete Ancketill.

He's looking for a £200,000 investment

to grow his bottle compaction business.

In return is just a 10% stake in the company.

Sarah Willingham, who made her fortune in bars and restaurants,

is first to break down the business.

Pete, I've got two businesses actually that are your target.

We have a very high volume of bottles

and this is a problem for us, but I don't have basements.

If your bar doesn't have a basement, you buy one of my other machines.

OK. Even though we have an issue with disposing of glass,

it's not enough of an issue

for us to outsource that one little bit of our waste management.

And a lot of the businesses that we have relationships with

want the bottles back, a lot of them.

If I've got loads of bars and I'm not buying it from you,

that in a way shows you that the market

is perhaps a little bit more limited than you think.

Surely it's game over for the entrepreneur,

if Sarah Willingham can't see a use for Pete's product in her industry.

Will Deborah Meaden, who's previously invested in waste disposal,

see things differently?

Pete, you may or may not know that I was in the waste industry

through an investment in Dragons' Den.

It's a very tough industry because there are some big players

that if they want to take you out, they take you out.

The bit I really want to get to the bottom of,

why aren't you just either licensing or selling

to the existing waste businesses?

You're spot on, we are currently doing that.

But there is a very delicate balance

between a waste management company advising of a third-party product

and that waste management company feeling

I want to take their income away.

Your perfectly credible and then you say things like that.

Trust me, they're not worried about you.

What I would like you to tell me is

where the revenue's going to come from

and how much profit this might be making in three years' time.

The machines are currently manufactured by us.

The components you see in front of you have been assembled by us.

Well, that's not quite answering.

just tell me something about your projected numbers for three years.

-There are three potential revenue streams.

-OK.

The first revenue stream is the rental or the leasing

of the machine.

Then there's the collection fee of collecting the glass

and then there's the potential recycling of the glass

that we then own. The average rental is £41 a week

and the average collection is £181 a week.

OK. So, would it be reasonable to say

that there could be a revenue of £10,000 per year, per site?

-Correct, yeah.

-OK.

If you were operating at scale across the UK,

how many of these machines do you think you can install

-in places that have the space...

-10,000 sites.

10,000 sites? OK. So, 10,000 sites.

What do you think you'll be able to take this to in three years' time?

Year three, we're looking at profitability

in excess of £2 million.

Pete's confident of his figures

and predicts a healthy turnover for the business.

But Peter Jones is more interested in the present than the future.

What has been your income in the last 12 months?

In 2014, we turned over £156,000.

-OK and what profit was that?

-There was a zero profit on that.

Zero. But you've valued this at £2 million.

-Correct.

-Give me a good justification and reason why

this is worth £2 million today.

Glassbusters have invested an enormous amount of time,

effort and money in investigating, understanding

and really getting to the bottom of the problems that exist

in the hospitality sector.

Pete, this is really great but you're not answering the question.

And I understand why you want to avoid it

because at the moment it seems ridiculous to me

why you would value this at £2 million.

-This is based on future earnings.

-No, no.

You're asking me to invest today at today's value.

We believe that in year five we'll have profits of £4 million.

But I don't want to invest today at tomorrow's price.

I think an investment today has to reflect

what it's going to be worth in the future.

The issue that I've got is where you are currently

and the absurd valuation.

To come in to us and say you're offering 10%

but you want £200,000.

You've put me between a rock and a hard place,

even if I could give it a punt and think, you know,

this is a great opportunity.

You've kind of killed it before you've started with the valuation.

So, I'm going to politely decline. I'm going to say I'm out.

Peter Jones is the first Dragon to bin the deal.

But Nick Jenkins still thinks there's mileage in this business

and wants to know if Pete has the infrastructure

to backup potential growth.

One of my concerns about this is that you need to be operating

a nationwide business picking up this glass.

What does that require by year three in terms of staff?

Glassbusters in year one have the intention of supplying services

to the M25 and within the M25.

All of our clients at the moment are each less than 1.6 miles from...

-Can you just... You've really got to get to the point here.

-Sorry.

I mean, give me a break. Cut to the point please.

We grow to a team of about 25 in year three.

A team of... Our current team...

So, 25. You've answered the question already, don't carry on. Stop, stop.

Sorry.

-Pete, Touker.

-Yes, hello.

You mentioned you've got your own plants making these.

Do you own a premises?

-We have two leases on two premises.

-OK. So, you turn over £156,000.

-Hm.

You've got two premises.

You've got rent, you've got rates.

How do you make it pay?

I'm confused.

Maybe there's another company, maybe there's another business.

Glassbusters is what I'm presenting here today and that's what's the...

So, what else is in the background?

Glassbusters is the business and that's what we do.

-All I want to know is you're turning over £156,000.

-Yeah.

That's less than a little shop.

-What was your GP on that?

-We are currently cost neutral.

We're not losing or making money.

Yeah, but you're not answering my question.

I can't answer your question, sorry.

I'm going to be very quick.

A lot don't make sense.

It's all for the future.

I think your valuation is too much, I'm out.

Touker Suleyman is gone, amidst rising frustration in the Den

over Pete's inability to give clear responses

to the straight-talking Dragons.

Deborah Meaden thinks part of Pete's problem

lies in his business strategy.

The model you've got at the moment is not going to work.

If I were you,

I would concentrate on doing deals with the waste management companies.

Focus on that and I promise you your life will be better

and you will end up wealthier.

I think the points you've made are very good

but waste management companies don't like glass in their dust carts.

-So, although...

-Sorry, did I just say that?

-No, they don't like it in there cos it destroys them.

-Oh, Pete.

Do you know... I'm really sorry...

I've just seen a glimpse into my future of working with you

and it's going to take forever to get to the bottom of stuff.

I don't think I could work with you

because I just think my life's too short.

-I won't be investing.

-OK, thank you.

-I'm out.

Deborah Meaden has worries over a working relationship with Pete

and has walked away.

Will Sarah Willingham follow suit?

I've got to be honest and I hate to make this personal

but I, I couldn't work with you.

I'm so sorry to say that.

I've actually never said that before to anyone but...

I couldn't because I think I'd go bit bonkers in the end

because every time somebody's asked you a question,

you've gone so off-piste.

I feel like you're not been straight with us.

I'm not used to presenting, you know.

I'm used to running a business, this is new to me.

I'm usually covered in muck and I'm usually getting stuck in.

I'm not a natural presenter.

I just can't, I can't invest in it.

So, I'm really sorry but I'm afraid I'm out.

OK, thank you.

Personality clashes and a lack of clarity in his answers

mean Pete's dream of investment has almost been shattered.

Unless Nick Jenkins can prevent this pitch

going the same way as his bottles.

Right, I'll cut to the chase.

I'm impressed actually by the way you've understood the problem.

But, as Deborah's pointed out, the big issue is

you're probably not going to muscle in to the waste disposal thing.

You don't have the national network to be able to do that

and you'll be crushed, absolutely crushed.

It's really, really important to pick your battles.

I think unfortunately you're going to have

to re-engineer your business plan completely

and focus entirely on the sales and the maintenance of those.

And if you'd come to us with a business plan that said that,

then it would be much more credible.

What you have is an invention and you've recognised a problem,

but I don't think you have any of the strategic ability

to be able to see this through.

I just think it would need an enormous amount of help

to make this happen.

But I think you've got something.

So, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

I'm going to offer you all of the money

but for 30% of the business.

Against all odds, Pete has an offer for the full £200,000.

He came in to sell 10% of his company.

Will he be willing to give up a further 20% to close the deal?

That's a fantastic offer. Would you go to 20?

I'm afraid I'd stick at 30 and the reason for that

is that I know that we'd have to bring some people in

and they would have to be given some of the equity.

-Would that require further dilution? How does that work?

-No, no.

-That would probably...

-That'd be part of your share?

-Yeah.

And what is it, for your 30%, that you can give us as a company?

What you're missing is strategic vision.

-But you can help me with that?

-Oh, yeah. I can help you with that.

We're only on this planet once...

-I'll accept your offer.

-Right.

-Sound.

-Thank you very much, I appreciate it.

-Excellent.

Pete has smashed it

and he walks away with £200,000 of Nick Jenkins' cash

after showing the Den that business sometimes requires bottle.

Nick wasn't put off by four other extremely successful entrepreneurs

telling him it was a non-viable business. He's got guts.

-There's a gem in there...

-I did not see that coming.

-..but he's pointing in the wrong direction.

-Yes.

-Good for you, Nick.

-Yeah.

-Well done, Nick.

Let's hope it doesn't turn out to be a waste of time.

WEAK LAUGHTER

Nick probably could have got more, I might have gone to 40%

but I wouldn't let him know that.

Still to come on tonight's show...

What's their price point?

-I didn't ask them that.

-What profit margins did they make?

-I didn't ask either.

-So you know nothing about your market.

None of my investments get the odd telephone call here and...

-Will you fly to China with him?

-No.

-I will fly to China with you.

-You have absolutely no idea how I run my investments.

-OK.

So, why did the chicken cross the road?

-WHISPERS:

-Hello there.

You'll be going in soon. You're going to be a star.

In this particular instance, to get to the Dragons' Den.

But in this case, it's the chicken farmer

who's hoping to feather his nest.

I was born in the family farm in Ireland.

I've always worked in agriculture.

Latterly, it's been the poultry industry,

specifically the egg sector.

So, I want you to stay calm and behave.

The Dragons will be fine.

We've taken a very big gamble with this business.

We have bet the house, if you like.

The success of this business is crucial

to our future financial security.

INAUDIBLE SPEECH

Hi, I'm Rob Shaw from The Crackin' Egg Company.

And this is Pepper.

We're asking for £80,000

in return for 20% of The Crackin' Egg Company.

At The Crackin' Egg Company,

we're going to crack the savoury snack food market

with a humble hard-boiled egg.

They've got a difference, though - they're painted.

This seals good stuff in and keeps the bad stuff out.

We started this business in January of last year.

We took a trip over to Europe

to research what the Europeans were doing

cos they have been successfully doing this for years.

And then midsummer, we went to approach some of the major retailers

to get feedback from them.

So far, we have invested £100,000.

We're asking for £80,000 from the Dragons

and we're going to match this with a further investment of £100,000.

Pepper's got to go now, she's got work to do.

And after all, even though the chicken came first,

it's all about the egg.

I've got some samples for you.

A new take on the humble hard-boiled egg from poultry salesman Rob Shaw.

He's looking for £80,000 in return for a 20% equity share

in his savoury snack food business.

Can the Dragons be persuaded to shell out the cash?

Hi, Rob.

In terms of selling, how much do they sell for?

Our twin pack, we're suggesting a retail price of £1.59.

Does the painting of them do anything other than

just it's colourful and it identifies it as a snack egg

as opposed to an egg-egg?

The painting is crucial.

The painting reseals shell and preserves the egg.

Right, so the painting is more about shelf life?

Absolutely. The companies that are selling peeled hard-boiled eggs

have a real problem maintaining quality and freshness.

Even when they're refrigerated,

they only have a shelf life of seven days, two weeks at the most.

-STAMMERS:

-OK. Why...

Mine has got some sort of rather unpleasant red dye all over it.

The colouring is perfectly natural.

That's exactly the same colouring as you get in any other food product.

I just want to pick on this all-natural thing

cos if I'd got Deborah's covered in red, I would have thrown that away.

I wouldn't have eaten it.

We're replacing that natural coating that has washed off when it's boiled

with other natural products, which reseal the shell.

It might be natural, but it doesn't actually look very nice, does it?

That's a matter of opinion. You don't like it.

You like that, do you?

-I don't dislike it.

-Oh, OK.

Other natural products have imperfections.

The look of Rob's product has failed to impress the Dragons.

And with a retail price of £1.59 per pair,

his pre-boiled eggs aren't going cheap.

Why would I pay five times as much to have a coloured outside egg?

And then take the shell off it and eat what's inside,

which is a normal egg?

For the same reason as you'd buy a sandwich or sushi or a wrap.

That's not true, really, is it?

You can't liken this, in any sense, to a sandwich.

You know, you're talking about a commodity

-that everybody has at home...

-Mm-hm.

-..that takes three minutes,

or five minutes to boil.

Everyone also has bread at home in their bread bin

and other products in the fridge they can make a sandwich with.

We're selling you a convenience food.

You're selling a pimped...

convenience product.

The visual aspect, I suppose you could say, pimps it,

but it's slightly different, though.

It's not that simple because we're boiling the egg,

which adds a value and then we're sealing the shell,

which preserves the egg and maintains freshness.

The colour is just a by-product.

Peter Jones is turning up the heat, but Rob is holding up well.

And he's about to receive an unexpected boost

from elsewhere in the Den.

I'm amazed at how much people are prepared to pay for convenience.

When I see bags of apples, sliced apple...

Because there's a fine example of a perfectly natural product

that someone has taken, done something with, put it in a bag

and charged about five times as much.

And the point is, people still buy it.

But obviously, it's narrow.

What else, beyond eggs...

Can you make an entire business around that?

I believe we can.

These are massive. You can get these all over Europe from north to south.

The sales figures and Germany are

about 1.5 million eggs per day.

Market penetration is even greater...

-1.5 million hard-boiled eggs...

-Of this type, per day.

-Sold in shells?

-Yes.

Hm.

Food for thought, as healthy foods on the Continent

hint at a potential market here in the UK.

But Peter Jones will take a bit more convincing.

What's the price point in Germany for the egg?

-I don't know the price point in Germany.

-Pardon?

I don't know the price point in Germany.

I thought you said it works in Germany.

Yes, it does. They sell 1.5 million per day.

But you don't even know...

They could be selling 1.5 million a day and losing money.

What's the company that are doing it?

Eier Gottke.

And what's their price point?

-I didn't ask them that.

-What profit margin do they make?

I didn't ask them that either.

What do they sell it to the retailer at?

-I didn't ask that either.

-So, you know nothing about your market.

I didn't research the German market

because I'm not planning to retail in Germany.

You didn't research ANY market.

You crack me up.

Rob, this really isn't a business.

You don't have substance to come into here

and try to sell me a coloured egg at five times the price.

For that reason, I'm out.

Plenty of questions

and a distinct shortage of answers.

The end result, no deal.

And the potential size of Rob's domestic market

is preoccupying Touker Suleyman.

Rob, in your first year, what's your projection?

This calendar year, we're projecting £160,000 of sales.

160K.

A gross profit of 48,000, approximately.

And a loss of 174, approximately.

-174?

-Yep.

A loss.

Year two, we're projecting a gross profit of 270,000

and a small profit of £40,000, approximately.

And year three, we're projecting £900,000 gross profit

and a net profit of over £500,000.

Whoa!

So, you want me to look ahead to three years' time?

Yeah.

Cos what I don't understand,

in your first year, you're going to lose 174,000...

Yes.

So, what happens in year two? Where would the money come from?

We're expecting to get to a cash flow positive situation

quite quickly in the second year.

We've had a lot of good feedback from the retailers...

You can have all the feedback and the world, right?

-I'll give you a piece of free advice.

-Mm-hm.

Cash is king.

You can have the best business in the world and if on a Friday,

you can't pay your bills, it means you're broke.

And my experience tells me that you're going to run out of money.

And for that reason...

I'm out.

Disappointment for the snack food entrepreneur

as fears of a cash flow crisis cost him his second Dragon.

Are Deborah Meaden or Sarah Willingham prepared to set aside

their earlier misgivings and make Rob an offer?

-Rob, an egg is a pretty magic food product.

-Mm-hm, it is.

That a lot of people love,

but I think you're taking away its magic.

It is a fresh product.

I, therefore, want to buy it as a fresh product.

So, you can do everything you like to it...

If you then put it on a shelf coloured red,

I am going to give it a wide berth.

My concern is that all the stuff you've spent your money on

-and that you think is the reason why this will work...

-Yep.

..I think are all the reasons it will work against you.

So, I'm very sorry, for that reason, I'm out.

I totally agree. If only you can make them look like eggs.

-THEY LAUGH

-You know, I mean, it kind of...

It looks like a plastic egg. It just doesn't...

All of the wonderful, wonderful things about eggs, this isn't.

You've taken it away.

Hopefully, you'll make some money out of it.

I don't think it's quite the size that you think it is, but I'm out.

Four Dragons have now declined the deal.

Rob has only one hope of securing the cash injection his business

craves and that rests with Nick Jenkins.

I can see that there is a market for boiled eggs.

And actually this is one of life's naturally gluten-free products

and more and more people are going in that direction.

So, I think you possibly missed a trick,

but I've given you that for free.

But I also think the business is not in the idea.

Because this is quite a simple idea.

The business is in the distribution side

and that's the bit that you don't have.

So, I'm afraid, I can't invest. I'm out.

It all started brightly enough, but Rob must leave empty-handed.

When offered the chance to spend big on painted eggs,

the Dragons proved themselves to be singularly hard-boiled.

There was quite a bit of criticism coming in,

but I didn't crack at all.

PEPPER CLUCKS

Next to face the Dragons is Spencer Turner from Bournemouth.

Spencer has given up his profitable business supplying medical gases

to hospitals in order to pursue a new entrepreneurial dream.

My 40th birthday had quite a big effect on me, realistically.

It was a wake-up call, where you realise that you're at a point

in your life where if you're going to make difference and do something,

it kind of needs to be now.

I became an entrepreneur because I've found that there are many

products on the market that I could reengineer, redesign,

make them more efficient and better.

Hello, my name is Spencer Turner

and I'm here today looking for a £45,000 investment

for a 25% share in my company Tegology.

(Sorry.)

Tegstove is the most efficient portable

gas camping stove ever made.

It runs on cost-effective butane

and utilizes a thermoelectric generator

to produce electrical current for charging mobile phones,

GPS, GoPro cameras

and many other devices that charge using a standard USB connection.

Erm... The stove will retail for £149.

We're looking to retail it into a number of existing markets

including camping, fishing, and festivals.

HE SIGHS

(Pressure.) Erm...

In the UK alone, there's over 1.2 million people

that go camping on average every year.

And fishing is the largest industry in the world,

valued over at £1.5 billion.

-I have a number of...

-HE STAMMERS

I have a number of letters of intent from both GO Outdoors

and from Total Fishing Tackle.

I'm looking to have a Dragon on board to help get the product

into the retail market and the larger distribution networks.

Thank you for listening. I'm happy to answer

any questions you may have.

A camping stove with a 21st-century twist

is the offering from Spencer Turner,

who's looking for £45,000

in return for a 25% stake in his business.

Peter Jones is quick to pick up

on the entrepreneur's falter in delivery.

-You nervous, Spencer?

-Yeah, sorry. Yes, I am. Yes.

You're not used to pitching to people?

No, not at all. No.

-Can you demonstrate the product?

-Absolutely, yeah.

OK, so essentially, what's happening here is a relatively simple process.

The gas flame produces around 1,200 degrees

and what we are doing is transferring part of that heat

to what's called a thermoelectric generator.

Essentially, what happens is it creates an electrical current

which then you can use for charging mobile devices.

Spencer, you're focusing very heavily on the fact

that this is a charger.

So, is your pitch not the fact that it's a sort of fire burner or stove,

but it has a capacity to charge phones?

It's very much so, first and foremost, a camping stove.

That was the concept originally. That's where the product came from.

We've been camping, we go camping quite a lot

and I found a frustration with the gases that were available.

If I can, I'll show you this.

This is a very standard camping gas cylinder. It's filled with butane.

The problem with these is you end up with no pressure for cooking,

so the actual gas fails and you can't cook with it.

So, to get around that, what industry has done is

they have come up with what's called a mixed gas solution.

Essentially, these hold the same amount of fuel as these,

but because these gases cost £4.50 for this cylinder,

whereas this one costs £1.50 and cheaper than that.

-So, your stove makes use of the lower-cost butane bottle...

-It does.

..but provides a better heat source

and can charge products that you want to plug in?

The fact that it creates current is almost a by-product

of what I was trying to overcome.

An innovative product with a clearly defined market

always ignites the Dragons' interests.

And established leisure industry player Deborah Meaden

is keen to find out more about Spencer's competition.

Can you describe the other stoves that are available?

Yes, absolutely.

And the price points?

Yeah, OK, the other stoves that uses thermoelectric generator

that produces electrical current is called a BioLite.

That retails between £129 and £149.

That doesn't use gas, it runs on sticks, effectively.

So, it's a fuel chain, but you light a fire

and it produces an electrical current, so you can charge from it.

OK, so what that has...

There is a bit of a romance to the fire.

-Absolutely.

-You're a camper, so you know that.

So, you are kind of... That's the slightly more romantic side of it,

so you still light your fire, it still...

-you know, there's a combination of the fire there.

-Yeah.

-But this is the more efficient way of doing it.

-It is.

So, if I was going to choose between them,

it's, do I still want to light the sticks

or do I actually want to use...?

I think the BioLite is a great concept.

The unfortunate reality is the output that it produces is very low,

but the majority of places you go camping,

-you're not allowed to use them.

-You couldn't on our sites.

I've got to tell you, I like it.

Great, thank you.

It's very rare that in my first opening set of questions I get to

the conclusion that it's something I want to get involved with.

-But that just happened to me.

-Oh, that's great.

That's good to hear. Thank you.

You have come in with a good product.

So, I'm going to make you an offer on the terms that you have

come in for - all of the money, 25% of the business.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

A clearly impressed Deborah Meaden has gone straight in with an offer.

The full £45,000 and unusually, for no more than the 25% equity

that Spencer was originally looking to give away.

And now Sarah Willingham also looks keen.

I think you've created something really brilliant. I really do.

Thank you.

It looks really nice.

I'm really happy to take it out outside our bell tent and work it.

My problem with it as an investment for me is

I don't really get the mechanics of it.

And so, I feel I couldn't sit there and talk about it and do it justice.

So, for that reason,

I'm going to say that I'm not going to invest in it.

So, good luck with everything, but I'm very sorry, I'm out.

OK, thank you very much.

High praise for the product,

but a failure to win any cash from Sarah Willingham.

Will fashion tycoon Touker Suleyman want to add a camping stove

to his business portfolio?

It just so happens that I've just taken on an industrial engineer

and we're about to develop accessories, bags and whatever,

which is a power pack and you can charge your phone three times a day.

Is there a way that you could add power packs

on top of your charger?

So you take the power pack away,

-you've got power pack that is already recharged.

-Yes.

That was an avenue we looked down.

One of the reasons we didn't do that was because having a power pack

that disconnected would create more connection points.

What we're designing now is something that would make

-the power pack and the charging system waterproof...

-I'd love to put

you and my girl together.

Cos, together, you guys would make a great team.

-I like it.

-Thank you.

-It complements what I'm doing.

And...

..I'll think about it.

No offer from Touker Suleyman,

but his interest has clearly been engaged.

Prompting telecoms giant Peter Jones to make a very direct inquiry.

Who do you like out of the five of us?

That is a very hard question.

I have to say that, you know, Deborah and Peter,

I don't mean any disrespect to anybody else, but obviously,

with your background and obviously, as well, your background,

you're very much so in the right kind of position to be able

to assist greatly to take this through to market.

Well, the reason why asked that is because I was sitting here...

I was interested at the get go.

Deborah has offered at the price that you came in at

and just my competitive nature,

even if it was, like, 26% I'd want to get a little bit more,

but she's gone straight in at that level and I can see why.

I think it is great.

So, I am going to make you an offer.

But I'm going to give you the option of two offers

depending on what Deborah were to say.

I'm going to make you an offer for all of the money, 45,000,

for 25% as well.

Or...

45,000 for 30% if it's split with Deborah.

So, half of the money and at least I have 15% of the business.

Can I ask? I have been to China, I have met with manufacturers,

but because I've never taken anything to market before,

actually getting a manufacturer to commit to actually get this

project moving forward is becoming cumbersome.

-Is that something that you guys could assist with?

-Completely.

What I would probably do is put you in touch with somebody who

all the time deals with people in... In fact, I know exactly...

I'd put you in touch with Stuart. That's what I would do!

OK, you got his number?

Stuart is very nice, you'll get on very well with Stuart.

I currently have an innovation centre in Singapore, Hong Kong

and in Taipei.

From a mobile telecoms perspective, you probably know that,

you know, about 18 million worth of product is developed,

manufactured from our own plant, so all of that...

I actually own that infrastructure.

So, yeah.

And that's why I think you should choose me.

Spencer has sparked a bidding war in the Den as both Deborah Meaden

and Peter Jones pitch to secure the deal.

Is Nick Jenkins poised to open a fresh front in the battle?

Well, Spencer, I was going to offer

-you £500,000 for 5% of the company, but since you...

-Because I...

you already said you didn't want me before I had the chance to

make an offer, I think, no, I'm going to pull back from that one.

I can see the glint in Deborah's eye on this one.

Not going to compete,

but anyway, I wish you all the best of luck with it.

-Thank you very much.

-But I'm out.

A rare show of deference as Nick Jenkins clears

the way for his fellow Dragon to secure the investment.

Thinking time over.

Is Touker Suleyman ready to make his move?

Spencer, I know about manufacturing.

We have an office in China.

I like it.

I believe that I have more time that any Dragon here.

I will fly to China with you and negotiate that deal.

I don't believe the other two Dragons will.

And I believe that what you need

is not just the odd phone call here, the odd phone call there...

Sorry, can I just be absolutely clear,

just in case you're inferring that that's how I do business.

No, none of my investments get the odd telephone call here...

-Will you fly to China with him?

-No, Stuart will fly to China with him.

Oh, OK. I will fly to China with you.

-You have absolutely no idea how I run my investments.

-OK.

I will make this happen and I will finance it beyond

what I'm going to offer you...

Because you're going to need money as working capital.

So, I'm going to make you an offer.

I'm going to give you 60,000...

..for your 25%.

Right, OK.

That, I didn't expect.

Touker Suleyman has offered

15,000 more than Spencer's £45,000 asking price in an 11th-hour bid

to clinch the deal.

With four competing offers,

including a proposal from Peter Jones

to split the deal with Deborah Meaden,

the ball is firmly in the entrepreneur's court.

Thank you very much for your offer...

..however, the fact that Deborah and Peter have got the background

and experience already within this particular market,

unfortunately just makes them in a much better, stronger position

kind of thing.

So, if Deborah was willing to and was happy to go down the same lines

as Peter, I would be happy to do that.

I've got a lot of investments with Peter and...

I have to say on this one, because I can...

-I can see it...

-SHE LAUGHS

..I've got to be really greedy.

For me, this is one that I would like on my own.

And that's why I suggested it

cos I thought you'd have a chance at getting it,

but now you probably won't.

A surprising development

as Deborah Meaden spurns an alliance with her fellow Dragon.

It's decision time for Spencer.

Deborah, again, thank YOU very much for your offer...

..but if Peter, you're happy to do the same offer,

-then I'd prefer to take it from yourself.

-Yep.

-Yep.

-Done?

-Done.

-Great.

-Thank you very much.

-You did very well. Well done. Great pitch.

-Thank you. Well...

-No, no. Even the nerves, brilliant. Very exciting.

Very good.

-Very, very good.

-Thanks very much. Thank you.

-Thanks, Spencer.

-Thank you.

So, success for Spencer

who leaves the Den with £45,000 he was originally seeking

and the backing of a Dragon with the international clout

to drive his invention to market.

I'm obviously really excited and really happy to get Peter involved.

He seems really positive about it as well.

It's more than I would hope for.

-I'm quite excited about that.

-I was surprised, though.

I must admit, I thought he was going to go with you. I really did.

Until you came in with your whole Hong Kong innovation thing.

-I was like, "Oh, here we go."

-Oh, don't give me that. Everybody knows.

You should have...you should have taken my offer, Deborah.

Some entrepreneurs who have success in the Den have just two choices -

to take an offer or leave it.

Lloyd and Tasha and Pete chose to take theirs.

But other entrepreneurs come here and get more options,

like Spencer with his unique gas stove,

which created a bidding war in the Den.

But many offers or just one,

it's enough to get you moving on the road to success.

# Sum...mertime! #

Coming up next time...

-HE DRUMS

-Don't give up your day job, Nick.

LAUGHTER

I think you are loopy to have stopped conversations.

I'm just amazed how you got the audacity to come here today

and say this is worth £1.5 million.

I'm going to give you all the money for 20%.

That market, they post it online themselves.

-No, they don't.

-They do!

-No, they don't.

-Yes, they do.

-No, they don't.

-They don't need this.

-Of course they do.