Episode 9 Dragons' Den


Episode 9

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Transcript


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Tonight on Dragons' Den...

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Whoa!

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Dragons, I'm a multimillionaire.

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-I don't need money.

-I'm out!

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You've worked in three investment banks - God help us!

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I think it's a very difficult market.

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You've really got to be very, very good.

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I'm torn, because I know what I could do with it.

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You've gave...

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given me nothing, absolutely nothing.

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I was about to go out,

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and I've just talked myself into potentially making an offer.

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Welcome to Dragons' Den.

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This is the place that when those lift doors open,

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entrepreneurs have just three minutes

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to deliver the business pitch of their lifetime.

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-Right, ready, Rog?

-Yeah, I'm ready, Phil.

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Right, so we're going in. Covers off.

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-Do the best you can.

-Yeah, yeah.

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Our first candidates for the Dragons' cash have come a long

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way from humble beginnings as a waiter and forklift truck driver

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to build a multi-million pound transatlantic business.

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Yeah, we've got a lot of experience,

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but going into the Den is a completely new experience for us.

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We're more used to being on the other side of the table.

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-OK?

-Yeah, perfect.

-Are you set?

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'I've learnt the pitch, I've done it 100 times,'

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I'll probably forget what I'm about to say next.

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If you get stuck, just look at me.

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-Yeah, OK, I will do.

-If I don't take over, panic.

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They're here today with a completely new business,

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a personal security product.

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And they want a Dragon to help fast-track it to be

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their next big money-spinner.

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-I'm Roger Willems.

-And I'm Phil Stratford.

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And we're the owners of the multiple award-winning DoorJammer.

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We're here today to present you with an opportunity

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to invest £80,000 for a 15% share of our company.

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Have you ever been in a hotel room where you don't feel 100% safe?

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You look at the door locks and you think they're not fit for purpose.

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Wouldn't it be good if you had a simple solution

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that you could give to your children when they go off to university

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or they go on holiday that would make them travel and feel safer?

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Well, Rog, now there is a solution.

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OK. DoorJammer is a small, innovative,

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patented device that fits neatly under almost any door in the world.

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Can I just demonstrate it to you, how it works?

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So, you fit it...

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..under the door, and then you begin to wind the Jammer up

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till you get contact with the door.

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You try the door - to let you know that it's connected.

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But if you then had to leave the room in an emergency at any stage,

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well, you can go down, pull the Jammer and it will come away.

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We have sales in over 25 countries,

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so come and join us and let's scale the sales together.

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No forgotten lines from Roger Willems and Phil Stratford,

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these days hailing from opposite sides of the pond.

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They're hoping a Dragon will unlock the door to success by investing

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£80,000 in this sideline to their business.

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Keep the girls away from me!

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In return, they'll give away a 15% share.

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The product has made

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Sarah Willingham keen to get hands-on.

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I would actually quite like to try it with the door.

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-Sure.

-Would you mind putting it back, and we'll have a tug on it?

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OK.

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You'd normally want to try and get in with it, wouldn't you?

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-The idea...

-But you wouldn't be this side of the door, would you?

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-No, no...

-You're trying to prevent people from getting in.

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OK, he's ready.

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We actually thought you'd come and kick it, Peter.

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Keep out of my bedroom, Sarah!

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Yes!

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It's definitely a deterrent...

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I think it's a deterrent, but there's no doubt if you wanted,

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if you wanted to...

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-Go on, then?

-Shall we give it a kick?

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I'm going to let... I'm going to leave that to somebody

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who's better dressed for it, I think.

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Whoa!

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Here we go!

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It's quite good.

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Shall I give it the final touch?!

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Ha-ha!

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But not brilliant.

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Nick Jenkins takes advantage of a rare opportunity

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to flex his muscles,

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with disastrous consequences for Phil and Roger.

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And it's kicked off thoughts about the product's necessity

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for Peter Jones.

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Why wouldn't you...? You know the doorstoppers you have,

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I have them in my house, they're wooden.

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-Mm-hmm.

-Why wouldn't you just use that?

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They... Erm, they usually kick away.

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This gives you

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a sort of higher level of protection, of safety.

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But it didn't stop... I mean,

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Nick is not known for being a bit of a bully boy,

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and yet it took him about ten seconds to get into the hotel room.

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It takes you about three seconds to wake up.

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But the thing is, that doesn't

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help me if I'm lying in bed in my underwear.

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The whole point about this product surely is to prevent

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somebody from getting in, not to give you an extra ten seconds.

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It's to prevent silent entry, is the idea.

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-And of course...

-Really?

-..like most security products, you know,

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if someone wants to get in, most places, they can.

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I mean, I was in a hotel in Malaysia where they had guards on the lift,

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and I had DoorJammer with me.

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At least I was able to get a degree of comfort that I had a level of

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security that I could control as well.

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Roger, I think that's just salesmen's nonsense.

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Yeah.

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If your product only gives a ten-second delay,

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you put a table or a chair next to the door, it's exactly the same.

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Phil and Roger can't seem to convince Peter Jones

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that their product is the best solution for the problem

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it's designed to solve.

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And now, Deborah Meaden wants to talk hard cash.

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Erm, how much does this sell for?

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They sell for 24.99.

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So, how much are they costing you to make?

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We buy them for 6.39.

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So you're not making them?

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We are making them.

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-Ah...

-So, DoorJammer buys them for 6.39.

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We make them in our factory for 4.50.

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OK, you probably need to explain that to me.

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Yes. So, we have a business, we've been partners

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for more than 30 years,

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and we do industrial products, business-to-business products.

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So that's your separate business...

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Yeah, and we sell it to ourselves.

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..and you're asking us to invest

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in a business that only does DoorJammer.

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-Yes.

-Only does DoorJammer, yes. I don't understand.

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Not surprisingly, I want to understand the relationship.

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So, this other business you've got - how big's that?

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70 million.

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-Turnover.

-Yes.

-Turns over 70 million a year?

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-Yes.

-Yes.

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Erm, that's quite a good business, that's a big business.

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Can I ask, what profit does it make, the company?

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Er, it does about 10 million.

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So, you make 10 million a year.

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-Mmm.

-Erm...

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You've got more money than me!

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Er...

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Come and sit here.

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Sit down.

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Dragons, I'm a multi-millionaire.

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I don't need money. And from this doorstopper, we have made millions.

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Can I just say - I'm out!

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News of Phil and Roger's other successful business

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has certainly created a congenial atmosphere in the Den.

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But now all are back in their rightful places,

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that 70-million question is still hanging in the air.

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What are you doing here? You know,

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you'd have many other ways of gaining routes to market,

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I mean, you must have.

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When we first got DoorJammer,

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we spoke about how we could possibly get it to market,

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and we only know the business-to-business route,

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that's through trade fairs.

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We think that youse have got the type of expertise,

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you've certainly got the profile, and we don't.

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We actually pitched it to Robert Dyas about a year ago,

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and I mean, they weren't that interested.

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Oh, well, that's interesting.

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Why not? I mean, they're... You know, they're professional buyers,

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their job is to find new product, and you're bang on,

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that's exactly who you'd talk to, so...

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I think we weren't ready, I think we were too amateurish for them.

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We probably couldn't answer all the questions

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that a consumer company would want.

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I will not accept that it's the way you presented it.

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Because any professional buyer will get over that.

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You know, they will think, "Ooh, good product, like that."

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I mean, when I first started with it,

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I tried to find a PR company to handle it.

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-No, no.

-It's the same thing.

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Roger, Roger - focus.

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I'm being very, very specific.

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So, why were you told they were not interested in this product?

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We found that Home Depot, Costco, they all look at the product,

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say they're interested,

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decide that we're a one-product company

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and channel us off to a distributor.

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You see, that worries me even more.

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That worries me even more because those names that you've just listed,

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I've got product in.

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One product.

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And they were so quick off the mark I can't tell you.

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See it, love it, buy it.

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So that's my worry.

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I don't get it.

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The Dragon with contacts in the product's target stores

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casts doubt over its saleability in them.

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And this successful business double act's inability to get the product

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to market has sent Touker Suleyman into a state of confusion.

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I can't work the pair of you out.

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You know, here you are.

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You're acting a little bit Tweedledum and Tweedledee,

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and you're acting as if you've never been out there,

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but you're very astute, the pair of you.

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Yeah, we are professional business guys.

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We are both out there doing the business we understand.

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What we are probably saying quite badly is the consumer side of it,

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we've not got proper experience in it and coming to the Den and getting

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someone on board who understands that will drive it forward.

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But, if I invested,

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you'd say, "We want a Dragon on board

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"so they can really help us get the product out there."

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You would put all that pressure of the sales back on me.

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I think to myself, "How many hours a week have I got?"

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You don't need a Dragon.

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You don't need my money.

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And for that reason, I'm out.

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Phil and Roger's success in business

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has led to failure with potential investor Touker Suleyman.

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And it doesn't look like it's gone down well with Nick Jenkins either.

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The thing that I really enjoy is investing in businesses

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to really make a difference, to support people who are going to go

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and create a good business.

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Not really terribly interested in effectively supporting

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a little tiny sideline of your enormous business.

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It's just not that appealing.

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-It's not for me.

-OK.

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-So I'm out.

-Thank you.

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My biggest concern,

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you've already tried to send it to a lot of people, and those are the

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people that I would be able to introduce you to because they are

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UK contacts, and they've already said no so, genuinely,

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I don't think I've got a great deal to add.

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So I'm out.

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You're going to sell some of these,

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you're going to make a bit of money but it kind of...

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it feels like it's not that important to you

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because you've got this whole other successful life going on,

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which I'm certainly not going to criticise. Well done.

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But it kind of then loses a piece for it.

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So I'm afraid I'm out.

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Deborah Meaden becomes the fourth Dragon

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to show Phil and Roger the door.

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Does Peter Jones have more faith

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that these successful businessmen have what it takes

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to build another multi-million pound enterprise?

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I think you have done incredibly well.

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I'm a little bit frustrated with the fact you've done so well in your own

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business and yet you thought this could be the route

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that you need to go and sell this product.

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I don't buy into the product.

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I think it is totally over-engineered.

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But I don't think it's going to affect your lives.

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You are multimillionaires in your own right, and I congratulate you,

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but I'm not going to invest in something that

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I just don't think is necessary.

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So I'm going to say that I'm out.

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-Thank you.

-Thanks very much indeed.

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It was really interesting.

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Bye-bye.

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So, Phil and Roger's concerns about their ability to sell becomes

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a self-fulfilling prophecy

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as they fail to persuade the Dragons to buy into their dream.

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You never see yourself from somebody else's eyes.

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Absolutely, yeah. Maybe it was us.

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Maybe working with guys who are running a 70-million business,

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maybe that put them off.

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Maybe they think we should have been poorer,

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and that might have made a difference.

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Anyway, I really enjoyed that.

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The one bit that was really unexpected, Rog,

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I don't know whether you noticed, but I got a new partner.

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-Peter Jones.

-Absolutely.

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He seemed to be my new business partner, but don't worry,

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-I'd never swap him for you.

-Thank you.

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Our next entrepreneur has an impressive and varied CV.

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He's a Cambridge postgraduate

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with careers in modelling and banking under his belt.

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My strategy in the Den is just be myself,

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put across my passion in the business.

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I'm not feeling particularly nervous.

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I've delivered thousands of presentations

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to multibillion-dollar finance hedge funds

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who rip you apart if you miss a punctuation, and then you get

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castigated, so to be honest,

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I feel quite excited, actually.

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Hi.

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Hi, Dragons. Oh, this...

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Hi, good afternoon, Dragons.

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My name is Sunil Kavuri and I'm here

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to offer you 5% of my food-to-go business, Great Grub,

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in exchange for £80,000.

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I'm... I have been a successful model,

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I've been a successful investment strategist

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at a leading investment bank in the City,

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and now I run the food-to-go business Great Grub.

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A few years ago, I was working in the City

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and I decided to take some time out and travel the world,

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sampling the local cuisines.

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Then I decided to set up my food-to-go business,

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and Great Grub was born.

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Great Grub is a food-to-go business inspired by street food on the go.

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All our products are halal and there's five main trends that are

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revolutionising the food-to-go industry.

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One, food on the move, two, healthy eating,

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expansion of branded concepts, greater variety of choice and halal.

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At the moment, we are trialling in Asda, Sainsbury's,

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we are in final talks to supply Compass and Sodexo,

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for their football grounds and universities,

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and also in final discussions with easyJet for their winter routes.

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Thank you, Dragons, for listening to my pitch.

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I have some sample platters for you guys to try.

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With his sandwich wraps inspired by street food from across the globe...

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-I'll deliver to the others.

-You're sweet.

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-Thank you so much.

-(I'm sweet!)

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Sunil Kavuri is hoping to appeal to the multicultural British consumer.

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But first he will need to tickle the taste buds of the Dragons,

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who he is hoping to extract £80,000 from.

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In return for the cash, he will give up 5% of his business.

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But first, Peter Jones wants to find out more about his colourful career.

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Sunil, tell me a little bit about yourself.

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So, I went to university at the London School of Economics.

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I did my masters at Cambridge University,

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and at the same time I was modelling so, you know,

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actually I did quite a lot of work for Big Brother

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and O2 mobile phones.

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In 2003, became an A-list celebrity.

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I was on TV 70,000 times.

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You were an A-list celebrity?

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Apparently so. But that was, obviously,

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I'm relatively educated,

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so I was doing this at the same time while I was studying.

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But the career progression was either go into acting,

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or continue modelling, or...or finance

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and, I mean, I decided to go for finance.

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And you went to Cambridge University.

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-Yes.

-And what degree did you get?

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A Masters in finance.

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My undergraduate, I studied at London School of Economics

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and I was awarded the prize for first out of 675 students.

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So, I joined actually Deutsche Bank after that,

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and then I moved to Morgan Stanley. It was pretty much the same.

0:18:060:18:10

And then at JP Morgan.

0:18:100:18:12

I have a real work ethic.

0:18:120:18:14

I used to get into work at about six o'clock and leave at ten

0:18:140:18:17

or 11 o'clock. It's because I enjoy it.

0:18:170:18:19

It's not necessarily for the money, it's just because inside I'm driven.

0:18:190:18:23

I have a strong work ethic.

0:18:230:18:24

I like being a success in everything I do.

0:18:240:18:27

What is special about the food?

0:18:270:18:30

What we have found in the supermarkets was

0:18:300:18:32

the food was relatively boring,

0:18:320:18:33

and I try to bring the street food concept,

0:18:330:18:36

which the British public love,

0:18:360:18:37

to the supermarkets, to retail.

0:18:370:18:39

So I believe that the product,

0:18:390:18:41

it's not available at the moment relative to the competitors.

0:18:410:18:45

Sunil continues to emphasise the work ethic

0:18:470:18:50

that lies behind his food-to-go business concept.

0:18:500:18:54

But Sarah Willingham,

0:18:540:18:56

the investor who knows first-hand how to grow

0:18:560:18:59

a lucrative food business,

0:18:590:19:00

is far more concerned with his product.

0:19:000:19:03

I think it is a very, very difficult market.

0:19:050:19:08

If you are saying that your USP is that you're halal,

0:19:080:19:11

my sandwich has got bacon in it for a start.

0:19:110:19:14

It is halal bacon.

0:19:140:19:15

-Halal bacon?

-It's not pork.

0:19:150:19:17

-There is no pork in it.

-It doesn't...

0:19:170:19:19

I think one of the issues is that your market is halal.

0:19:190:19:24

Actually, it's a dual product.

0:19:240:19:26

The reason why we made it halal is that anyone can eat it.

0:19:260:19:29

It wasn't specifically for Muslims, and you see a trend -

0:19:290:19:33

all brands are going that way.

0:19:330:19:36

Subway, they have converted 200 of their stores to halal.

0:19:360:19:39

The problem is it's not communicated at all, so if I am Muslim and I want

0:19:390:19:44

to know that that's not real bacon,

0:19:440:19:46

and if I'm not, I want to know that it is real bacon, probably.

0:19:460:19:50

So I think it's a very difficult market

0:19:500:19:52

that you're entering, and I think you've really got to be

0:19:520:19:55

very, very good.

0:19:550:19:56

Sarah Willingham casts doubt that Sunil's product range

0:19:580:20:02

can find traction in a marketplace

0:20:020:20:04

crowded with takeaway sandwich big hitters.

0:20:040:20:07

But it's his packaging that has caught Nick Jenkins' attention.

0:20:080:20:12

On this packaging,

0:20:120:20:13

it has Go Gafoor Inc, 43 Berkeley Square...

0:20:130:20:16

That's the company that owns Great Grub.

0:20:160:20:19

-So, Go Gafoor Inc. Inc. Is that an American company?

-Sorry?

0:20:190:20:23

-Is it what?

-Is it an American company?

0:20:230:20:25

-No, no.

-Why is it Inc?

0:20:250:20:27

My partner just asked,

0:20:270:20:29

suggested the name Go Gafoor Inc, and so I said fine.

0:20:290:20:33

No, no, no. Sorry, there is a legal distinction,

0:20:330:20:35

because if it was a UK... Is it a UK...

0:20:350:20:37

-It's a UK company.

-It's a UK company, OK.

0:20:370:20:40

Then Inc is incorporated, short for incorporated, an American company.

0:20:400:20:44

Oh, OK.

0:20:440:20:46

You worked in a bank. I mean, come on.

0:20:460:20:48

I was on the trading floor, I don't...

0:20:480:20:50

I mean, I don't...

0:20:500:20:51

That's slightly worrying.

0:20:510:20:53

I mean, this is quite...

0:20:530:20:56

quite basic.

0:20:560:20:58

My partner chose the name of the company.

0:20:580:21:00

It's not the name of the company. Inc is not the name of the company.

0:21:000:21:03

It's the legal designation of it.

0:21:030:21:06

He... I know the legal designation...

0:21:060:21:08

I'm not sure why he...

0:21:080:21:10

I'm not sure why you didn't notice it.

0:21:100:21:12

Registered the company as Go Gafoor Inc.

0:21:120:21:14

OK, so if I went into Companies House now,

0:21:140:21:16

I'd find Go Gafoor Inc Ltd, would I?

0:21:160:21:18

Yeah, I presume so.

0:21:180:21:20

You presume so? It's the name of your company!

0:21:200:21:22

-Sorry?

-You presume so?

0:21:220:21:24

It's true, yes, you would find it.

0:21:240:21:26

Quite apart from the fact that I'm...

0:21:260:21:28

It concerns me that you own a company called Go Gafoor Inc,

0:21:280:21:31

and it didn't strike you as slightly odd.

0:21:310:21:33

Mm.

0:21:330:21:34

And you worked in three investment banks.

0:21:360:21:39

God help us!

0:21:390:21:40

A large dose of incredulity from Nick Jenkins

0:21:420:21:45

over Sunil's uncertainty of his company's legal name.

0:21:450:21:49

And now Peter Jones wants clarity on the price tag

0:21:490:21:53

he's placed on his business.

0:21:530:21:55

You value this business at 1.5 million today.

0:21:590:22:02

-Yes.

-So, how much money have you made?

0:22:020:22:05

Give me this year's revenue and profit.

0:22:050:22:07

This year's revenue... I mean, we've only been trading for a year.

0:22:070:22:10

We've £112,000, about £20,000 profit.

0:22:110:22:14

Um, yeah...

0:22:170:22:19

What's disappointing is you make the assumption that actually, Peter,

0:22:190:22:22

that demonstrates that this business today is worth 1.5 million.

0:22:220:22:25

I'm not going to let you get away with that.

0:22:250:22:27

Because unless you're going to tell me you have a forward contract with

0:22:270:22:32

somebody which is going to give me comfort

0:22:320:22:35

that the next 12 months your earnings substantially increase

0:22:350:22:39

to get to the valuation in this food business.

0:22:390:22:42

-Of course.

-So what is your forecast for the next 12 months?

0:22:420:22:45

-Sales...

-Forecast revenue is based on, I would say, easyJet, Sodexo

0:22:450:22:50

and Compass, and a coffee chain. Revenue and profit...

0:22:500:22:53

Have you got any of those at the moment?

0:22:530:22:55

Yeah. So we are in discussions with them.

0:22:550:22:57

In discussions is different to...

0:22:570:23:00

No-one's signed a formal contract.

0:23:000:23:02

So, what is your forecast for the next 12 months?

0:23:020:23:06

1.1 million revenue and 300,000 profit, net profit.

0:23:060:23:10

But you don't have any contracts whatsoever that will support

0:23:120:23:15

-that at the moment?

-No.

0:23:150:23:17

Sunil fails to justify that hefty valuation

0:23:190:23:23

on his fledgling business.

0:23:230:23:25

And that's not gone down well with Deborah Meaden.

0:23:250:23:28

You are representing your business, and what happens in Dragons' Den is

0:23:300:23:34

we ask you to explain your business.

0:23:340:23:36

We haven't even got down to that because you're not really sure,

0:23:360:23:40

you presume that your name is Go Gafoor Inc Ltd.

0:23:400:23:42

No, no, I am sure, I just said...

0:23:420:23:44

I apologise.

0:23:440:23:45

OK. Or you don't appear to get the difference between Inc and Ltd.

0:23:450:23:49

I apologise for that.

0:23:490:23:50

No way can you come in here and say that a business,

0:23:500:23:52

£120,000 profit... Sorry, £120,000 turnover,

0:23:520:23:57

£20,000 profit is worth £1.5 million.

0:23:570:24:01

-OK.

-You've given me nothing.

0:24:010:24:05

Absolutely nothing. I'm really sorry. I won't go over it.

0:24:050:24:09

-I'm out.

-OK, thanks.

0:24:090:24:10

Some food for thought from Deborah Meaden,

0:24:130:24:15

who becomes the first Dragon to walk away from the deal.

0:24:150:24:19

Sarah Willingham, who made her millions rolling out

0:24:190:24:21

restaurant franchises around the globe,

0:24:210:24:23

has also arrived at a verdict.

0:24:230:24:26

Sunil, the real problem is...

0:24:290:24:34

And I understand why you did it, but when you come in here and you

0:24:350:24:39

did spend a lot of time kind of giving us the big "I am"

0:24:390:24:44

and, actually, all we really want to know is about the sandwiches

0:24:440:24:48

and how you're going to get it into the stores

0:24:480:24:50

and why you love that and what's great about them.

0:24:500:24:53

I'm sorry, I'm out.

0:24:550:24:56

OK, thanks.

0:24:560:24:57

Sarah Willingham declines the opportunity to add Great Grub

0:25:000:25:03

to her investment portfolio.

0:25:030:25:06

Has Touker Suleyman been convinced?

0:25:070:25:09

Oh, you look like you've had seven rounds

0:25:110:25:14

with some heavyweight fighter.

0:25:140:25:16

Yeah.

0:25:180:25:19

Look, I'm not going to invest, but I wish you all the best and I'm out.

0:25:200:25:24

What I want is evidence of where this business is going

0:25:260:25:28

to be in three years' time

0:25:280:25:30

and the likelihood of that happening.

0:25:300:25:32

I'm sort of expecting to be much sharper on that.

0:25:320:25:35

I'm afraid I just can't get excited enough about this to invest,

0:25:360:25:39

and I'm afraid, unfortunately, I'm out.

0:25:390:25:41

-Thanks.

-OK.

0:25:410:25:42

Nick Jenkins loses his appetite for the investment

0:25:440:25:47

and walks away from the deal.

0:25:470:25:49

Only Peter Jones remains.

0:25:500:25:52

So far, he's been unimpressed by Sunil's lack of forward contracts

0:25:520:25:57

and his hefty company valuation.

0:25:570:25:59

But has the food entrepreneur's work ethic struck any chords with

0:25:590:26:05

this last remaining Dragon?

0:26:050:26:06

I think you've made a misjudgement of the pitch that you put across.

0:26:070:26:10

-Yeah.

-I don't think you should take this personally.

0:26:100:26:14

I'm not going to invest in the business,

0:26:140:26:17

but I really think you need

0:26:170:26:18

to go away and really think about the product,

0:26:180:26:20

do a bit more research, look into it,

0:26:200:26:22

spend a bit more time with your partner and then look at how you can

0:26:220:26:26

go and build a successful business, OK?

0:26:260:26:27

-OK, thanks.

-So I'm going to say,

0:26:270:26:29

"Look, Sunil, I'm out, but I wish you the very best, and good luck.

0:26:290:26:33

Thanks, Peter.

0:26:330:26:34

Unfortunately for Sunil,

0:26:370:26:39

his sandwich business never managed to excite the Dragons.

0:26:390:26:42

He leaves the Den with nothing.

0:26:420:26:45

Just such a tough market.

0:26:480:26:49

I think it's back to the drawing board for him.

0:26:490:26:52

I think so, yeah.

0:26:520:26:53

It is disappointing because, you know,

0:26:540:26:56

they didn't look at my work ethic,

0:26:560:26:58

my drive, my ambition.

0:26:580:27:00

Nothing. But it doesn't fault the long-term business potential,

0:27:000:27:04

so I will fight on. For sure, I'll fight on.

0:27:040:27:07

Still to come on tonight's show...

0:27:150:27:18

We can't reveal the name on television.

0:27:180:27:20

I'm sorry, you know the deal - you come into the Den,

0:27:200:27:22

everything is on air.

0:27:220:27:23

If I was to do it, I'd want a bigger percentage.

0:27:230:27:26

It's not worth my while.

0:27:260:27:28

Will anyone clinch an investment?

0:27:280:27:31

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying it's immense.

0:27:310:27:35

These days, there seems to be

0:27:400:27:42

a price comparison website for everything,

0:27:420:27:45

but our next entrepreneurs think

0:27:450:27:47

they've cornered a section of the market previously unexplored.

0:27:470:27:50

They've big plans for their business

0:27:500:27:52

and are very specific about who they want to get them there.

0:27:520:27:55

Do we both look all right?

0:27:580:28:00

-Yeah.

-Look all right.

0:28:000:28:02

There's two Dragons we're interested in being on board.

0:28:050:28:08

The first is Nick,

0:28:080:28:09

because of his success building a start-up tech company.

0:28:090:28:13

And the other Dragon we're interested in is Sarah,

0:28:160:28:19

because of her experience building a comparison site.

0:28:190:28:21

Hi. I'm Sam Coley.

0:28:350:28:37

And hi, I'm Steve Pearce.

0:28:370:28:40

And we are the co-founders of TickX,

0:28:400:28:42

here today asking for £75,000 for 5% equity in our tech business.

0:28:420:28:48

TickX is a platform to discover great events,

0:28:480:28:52

compare ticket prices and buy in seconds with no added fees.

0:28:520:28:57

It's as simple as that.

0:28:570:28:58

And our aim is to become the Sky Scanner or the Go Compare

0:28:590:29:04

of event ticketing.

0:29:040:29:05

So, why do you need TickX?

0:29:050:29:07

The events industry is fragmented.

0:29:070:29:10

There are too many websites,

0:29:100:29:11

too many ticket sellers and too many claims to offer the best deals.

0:29:110:29:15

Knowing there must be a better way, we created TickX,

0:29:150:29:18

which compares prices from 20 leading ticket sellers

0:29:180:29:21

and for over 50,000 events.

0:29:210:29:24

In September 2015, we raised £175,000

0:29:240:29:27

to accelerate our development.

0:29:270:29:29

We have since been featured

0:29:290:29:31

in Virgin's Young Entrepreneurs To Watch

0:29:310:29:33

and now have over 18,000 event goers using our platforms each month.

0:29:330:29:38

Our users love TickX because it's completely free to use and we

0:29:380:29:41

charge no additional fees.

0:29:410:29:43

We make our revenue by receiving commission

0:29:430:29:45

on the sales we generate for our ticket seller partners.

0:29:450:29:48

It is a win-win for everyone.

0:29:480:29:49

Comparison sites have been proven in almost every industry,

0:29:490:29:53

and now it's time for events.

0:29:530:29:55

Thank you for listening and we look forward to your questions.

0:29:550:29:59

Ticking all the boxes with a confident pitch

0:30:010:30:04

are 24-year-old Steve Pearce

0:30:040:30:06

and Sam Coley, who is 23.

0:30:060:30:08

They are touting 5% of their ticket price comparison website in exchange

0:30:080:30:13

for the princely sum of £75,000.

0:30:130:30:16

Sarah Willingham wants to know if a platform like this

0:30:170:30:21

is just the ticket to revolutionise the events industry.

0:30:210:30:24

Guys, I know a reasonable amount about the comparison market,

0:30:260:30:30

both from the consumer end and also from the business side and,

0:30:300:30:33

you know, if you look at comparison

0:30:330:30:35

across financial services or across travel, you've

0:30:350:30:37

got a massive variety of prices for lots of similar products.

0:30:370:30:43

Not always for the same.

0:30:430:30:44

Now, with tickets, if I want to go and see Adele,

0:30:440:30:47

who governs the price of that ticket to see Adele?

0:30:470:30:50

So, the artist or the promoter will set the price of the ticket.

0:30:500:30:54

OK, so if I then go online,

0:30:540:30:56

can I buy that ticket more or less anywhere?

0:30:560:30:59

Yes, because you've got these tickets split across these sellers,

0:30:590:31:02

one ticket seller can sell out of the cheaper band of tickets.

0:31:020:31:05

If you go to their website direct,

0:31:050:31:06

you would think they were sold out

0:31:060:31:08

and you'd have to buy more expensive, but with ours,

0:31:080:31:10

because we compare them all, you can find someone else has those tickets

0:31:100:31:13

still available and those savings then can be quite big.

0:31:130:31:16

And tell me specifically about whether or not,

0:31:160:31:19

when you've got six people

0:31:190:31:20

who are able to sell tickets for a particular event,

0:31:200:31:23

in order to be able to see the availability of those tickets now,

0:31:230:31:26

I would have to go into each one of those websites...

0:31:260:31:28

-Yeah.

-And I will see a different availability map on each one.

0:31:280:31:32

Is that right?

0:31:320:31:33

So, what most people do in the past is you get Google open,

0:31:330:31:36

you would click in each, having a look.

0:31:360:31:38

Go into one, find it's sold out, go and look at another.

0:31:380:31:40

Obviously, that's really time-consuming and painful,

0:31:400:31:43

so we take that away straightaway.

0:31:430:31:45

I think it's a very good idea.

0:31:450:31:47

I'm slightly surprised it hasn't been done so far, but then...

0:31:470:31:50

We get that a lot.

0:31:500:31:51

The Dragon who built an e-commerce business worth £120 million

0:31:530:31:58

gives the entrepreneurs' business plan his seal of approval.

0:31:580:32:02

But Steve and Sam's other preferred Dragon wants to know how they intend

0:32:020:32:07

to reach a mass market.

0:32:070:32:08

Where the biggest challenge is by far is why is the consumer

0:32:110:32:16

going to come to you rather than anywhere else?

0:32:160:32:19

How do I know about you?

0:32:190:32:21

How? Well, that's through our marketing strategy.

0:32:210:32:24

What is the marketing strategy?

0:32:240:32:26

We've been in dialogue with Google about doing

0:32:260:32:29

app promotion, desktop promotion campaigns.

0:32:290:32:32

The problem you will have is you are competing against guys that spend

0:32:340:32:37

hundreds of millions of pounds.

0:32:370:32:40

It's that traction that makes you the first port of call

0:32:400:32:45

rather than Ticketmaster. Because that's still...

0:32:450:32:47

That's what is in the consumers' minds.

0:32:470:32:49

It's changing user behaviour as well because people know car insurance,

0:32:490:32:52

you know to compare prices.

0:32:520:32:54

People need to start realising

0:32:540:32:56

that with events you should do it as well.

0:32:560:32:58

And to change that consumer behaviour for car insurance,

0:32:580:33:00

it has cost hundreds and hundreds of millions of pounds

0:33:000:33:05

by a group of very large comparison sites over the last 12 years.

0:33:050:33:11

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm just saying it's immense.

0:33:110:33:15

The Dragon with price comparison form provides a reality check on

0:33:180:33:22

the entrepreneurs' ambitious plans.

0:33:220:33:25

And now Nick Jenkins wants to know

0:33:250:33:28

how they funded their progress so far.

0:33:280:33:31

-You raised 175K?

-Yes.

-From whom?

0:33:340:33:38

So, we've got three angel investors

0:33:380:33:40

and we've got one of the biggest music brands in the world.

0:33:400:33:44

-One of the biggest...?

-Music brands in the world.

0:33:440:33:46

-A brand?

-An iconic music brand.

0:33:460:33:49

Go on, then. You are going to have to tell us.

0:33:490:33:50

We can't reveal the name on television because the CEO

0:33:500:33:53

of the company has asked us to keep it confidential.

0:33:530:33:55

-I think that's really...

-He likes to control his own press activity.

0:33:550:33:58

Is he a controlling shareholder, then?

0:34:010:34:03

He... They are at the moment, yes.

0:34:030:34:06

So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the shareholding.

0:34:060:34:08

-Who has got what?

-So, the biggest shareholder apart from ourselves,

0:34:080:34:13

-has 10%.

-Can I just ask what he invested to get that 10%?

0:34:130:34:17

-So, they...

-We can't actually reveal that.

0:34:170:34:22

They don't want us to reveal that either, unfortunately.

0:34:220:34:25

This is nonsense, guys.

0:34:260:34:27

You can't come in here and try and ask for money and then say,

0:34:270:34:30

I can't tell you who the other shareholders are,

0:34:300:34:32

what they invested, at what time they invested.

0:34:320:34:35

You've got to share that.

0:34:350:34:37

We understand it's hugely important and it's why

0:34:370:34:39

we haven't been given permission to reveal...

0:34:390:34:42

-He can't control that.

-But you are prepared to reveal that,

0:34:420:34:44

you're prepared to reveal that to us before we make a decision, but you

0:34:440:34:48

don't want it going on-air?

0:34:480:34:50

Yes, that's their decision.

0:34:500:34:52

Well...

0:34:520:34:53

I'm sorry, you know the deal.

0:34:530:34:54

You come into the Den, everything is on-air.

0:34:540:34:56

So, have you got the forms to look at so I can see

0:34:590:35:02

-who this investor is?

-Yeah.

0:35:020:35:03

Ridiculous.

0:35:030:35:05

-That's the term sheet.

-And that's the shareholders.

0:35:090:35:12

The shareholders agreement.

0:35:120:35:13

Oh, yes. Got it.

0:35:160:35:18

-Oh, that's who it is. OK.

-Yes.

0:35:200:35:23

To be fair, I have no problem with the Ministry Of Sound at all.

0:35:230:35:26

I think they are a good brand, good company.

0:35:260:35:28

So that is a tick in the box for me.

0:35:290:35:31

Attempts to keep things confidential never go down well with the Dragons.

0:35:350:35:40

But a business that is attractive to a big industry player will certainly

0:35:400:35:43

win you friends in the Den.

0:35:430:35:45

However, for Deborah Meaden, the revelation suggests this is a case

0:35:460:35:51

of too many cooks.

0:35:510:35:52

You're going to need more cash and you need a bit more time and I would

0:35:530:35:57

just become one of those list of great names

0:35:570:35:59

that you got involved in the business.

0:35:590:36:02

It's kind of not my style of investing.

0:36:020:36:04

Very rarely do I just put my cash in and say,

0:36:040:36:06

"Lovely, you've got my name, now just get on with it."

0:36:060:36:09

-You know. So I won't be investing.

-I understand that.

0:36:090:36:11

-Thank you.

-I'm out.

0:36:110:36:13

No tick from Deborah Meaden.

0:36:160:36:18

Out because the investment doesn't offer enough of a stake in

0:36:180:36:22

the business.

0:36:220:36:23

But the Dragons the entrepreneurs came in for are still in

0:36:230:36:26

the running, and one of them is about to reach her verdict.

0:36:260:36:30

Anything that makes pricing more transparent for the consumer

0:36:320:36:36

I think is great, and the more the merrier.

0:36:360:36:40

But I'm also very aware,

0:36:400:36:42

and it's also from experience - and hard experience -

0:36:420:36:45

it is very, very,

0:36:450:36:46

very difficult to get your name out there so that you are the first port

0:36:460:36:52

of call for that consumer.

0:36:520:36:54

So I really hope you do it,

0:36:540:36:57

but I'm afraid it's not for me.

0:36:570:37:00

Good luck. I'm afraid I'm out.

0:37:000:37:02

A heavy blow for the entrepreneurs,

0:37:040:37:06

as one of their most coveted Dragons bows out.

0:37:060:37:10

Sarah Willingham's exit clears the way for the other Dragons.

0:37:100:37:14

Will tech giant Peter Jones see traction in TickX?

0:37:140:37:18

The big issue I have about this is I think,

0:37:210:37:24

as you grow your business model,

0:37:240:37:26

you are going to come under pressure from the very people that you're

0:37:260:37:29

trying to help today.

0:37:290:37:31

So, what this investment comes down to is are you going to be the next

0:37:310:37:35

Uber of the event marketplace?

0:37:350:37:37

That's what you're really coming up with, in a nutshell.

0:37:370:37:39

I completely agree.

0:37:390:37:41

I actually think...

0:37:440:37:45

I was about to go out and have just

0:37:450:37:47

talked myself into potentially making an offer.

0:37:470:37:49

Please do!

0:37:490:37:50

So, guys, I'm going to make you an offer.

0:37:560:37:59

-Thank you.

-Fantastic.

0:37:590:38:00

But I'm going to de-risk it because I'm actually going to offer you half

0:38:030:38:06

-of the money.

-OK.

0:38:060:38:08

And I'm going to be really specific with this because I think

0:38:080:38:11

you're going to need a little bit of a helping hand

0:38:110:38:13

with somebody that has real intrinsic knowledge.

0:38:130:38:15

I know that Nick, for example, has got great experience,

0:38:150:38:19

specifically in what you are going to need to achieve.

0:38:190:38:23

I'm going to offer half of the money...

0:38:230:38:25

..but I want 10%.

0:38:270:38:28

Peter Jones does a U-turn and makes a strategic offer with the proviso

0:38:320:38:37

that Nick Jenkins also comes on board.

0:38:370:38:39

Will the online innovator think this website could be the gateway

0:38:400:38:45

to more success?

0:38:450:38:46

I think one of the things to understand here,

0:38:480:38:50

compared with a financial investment,

0:38:500:38:52

is that when we make these investments on here,

0:38:520:38:56

we are giving so much more than just writing a cheque.

0:38:560:38:59

Here, you need our input, and in particular,

0:38:590:39:02

you need a lot of input on customer acquisition,

0:39:020:39:04

and that's something I've got a track record in.

0:39:040:39:07

So, I'll offer the other half for 10%.

0:39:080:39:11

A joint bid on the table, asking for 20% of the business.

0:39:140:39:19

But offering a wealth of experience and one of the Dragons

0:39:190:39:22

Sam and Steve were so keen to secure.

0:39:220:39:25

Time for some tactical thinking by Touker Suleyman.

0:39:250:39:29

I don't normally invest as a passive investor.

0:39:310:39:37

I've got a very similar online business called Bikesoup.

0:39:370:39:40

-Yes.

-They are on my premises, I'm with them all day long.

0:39:400:39:44

We are working together with developers.

0:39:440:39:46

Now...

0:39:500:39:51

..I'll give you all the money for 15%.

0:39:530:39:55

-Right, OK.

-Thank you very much.

0:39:570:39:59

A setback for the Jones/Jenkins partnership

0:40:020:40:05

as Touker Suleyman comes in with a 5% lower offer.

0:40:050:40:08

-Can we have a word?

-Sure.

-Thank you.

0:40:100:40:13

Two bids have now been tendered,

0:40:140:40:16

both at a much greater equity stake

0:40:160:40:18

than the entrepreneurs were offering,

0:40:180:40:21

posing a dilemma for the young businessmen.

0:40:210:40:24

Did you want to say all three is in?

0:40:260:40:28

If we've already discounted?

0:40:280:40:30

Yeah, we can't...

0:40:300:40:33

We can't.

0:40:330:40:35

-I'll do it.

-OK, great.

0:40:350:40:37

Yeah. OK.

0:40:370:40:38

So, thank you, all three of you, for the offer.

0:40:430:40:48

I think the problem is we just couldn't drop our valuation,

0:40:480:40:52

and I don't know if there's any movement,

0:40:520:40:54

but we couldn't go to those kind of percentages.

0:40:540:40:56

You've already given these guys 15% for 75K.

0:40:580:41:02

That was at the very first stages.

0:41:050:41:07

We've significantly de-risked it now.

0:41:070:41:09

I think we're probably going to struggle to agree on terms here.

0:41:120:41:16

We wouldn't be able to move far enough.

0:41:160:41:18

Good luck, but I'm out.

0:41:200:41:21

I'm not willing to change my offer.

0:41:230:41:25

I think my offer was very fair, so I'm going to say that I'm out.

0:41:250:41:28

Stalemate.

0:41:300:41:32

Leading to the loss of two Dragons and all the experience they bring.

0:41:320:41:36

Will Touker Suleyman be prepared to negotiate?

0:41:370:41:40

OK. Look, guys. It's very apparent where you're at.

0:41:410:41:45

I'm tempted.

0:41:470:41:49

However, I'm not willing to lower my percentage.

0:41:540:41:59

For that reason, I'm out.

0:42:010:42:03

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

0:42:030:42:04

So near, yet so far.

0:42:060:42:08

Steve and Sam's refusal to give away a bigger equity stake leads to them

0:42:080:42:13

leaving the Den without that winning ticket for a Dragon partner.

0:42:130:42:17

That was intense.

0:42:190:42:20

That really was. Well, that was an experience, to say the least.

0:42:200:42:25

I feel like I've been in the ring for about four hours.

0:42:250:42:28

About the hardest thing I've done.

0:42:280:42:30

-That was hard.

-Yeah, it really was.

0:42:300:42:34

I think the difficulty is when

0:42:340:42:35

they've got a shareholder structure in advance of coming here,

0:42:350:42:39

it's very difficult for them to manoeuvre.

0:42:390:42:41

They might live to regret it when they're struggling to get customers.

0:42:410:42:44

It is a decision which will stick with us forever,

0:42:440:42:46

and I hope we don't regret it.

0:42:460:42:49

Last to face the rapid-fire of the Dragons

0:42:550:42:58

is a partnership who are hoping their careers as captains

0:42:580:43:01

in the Army will prove a good training ground

0:43:010:43:04

for their time in the Den.

0:43:040:43:05

Let's hope they don't get their marching orders

0:43:050:43:08

from our five investors.

0:43:080:43:09

-We're going to do it.

-Yeah.

0:43:130:43:15

Both of us have deployed on operations.

0:43:180:43:22

We joined the Army, we went through Sandhurst.

0:43:220:43:24

Got to do some mindfulness.

0:43:240:43:25

Think about your sweaty hands and how they feel clasped together.

0:43:250:43:29

We wouldn't have got through Sandhurst

0:43:290:43:31

if we didn't have a bit of fight

0:43:310:43:32

and a bit of gumption about us.

0:43:320:43:34

I hope that when it does get very tough in the Den,

0:43:350:43:38

we've got that fight in us to really go for it.

0:43:380:43:41

Hello, Dragons. My name is Rachel Day

0:43:540:43:57

and this is Merry Whitaker, and we run Love, Keep, Create.

0:43:570:44:01

We are here today to ask you for £50,000

0:44:010:44:04

in return for a 10% equity share in our business.

0:44:040:44:08

If you've got children or if you've ever had anyone close to you pass

0:44:080:44:12

away, chances are you may have been left

0:44:120:44:14

with a few special items of their clothing that

0:44:140:44:17

you just didn't want to get rid of.

0:44:170:44:19

This was the basis for our business, Love, Keep, Create.

0:44:190:44:22

My husband was deploying to Afghanistan in 2011.

0:44:220:44:26

We had a small baby. So I took some of our son's favourite clothes and

0:44:260:44:30

turned them into a keepsake for my husband to take with him.

0:44:300:44:33

So how does it work?

0:44:330:44:34

You go onto our website and choose from our wide range

0:44:340:44:37

of keepsake designs,

0:44:370:44:39

then send the clothing in to us.

0:44:390:44:40

We create your beautiful keepsake,

0:44:400:44:42

usually embroidering it with a child's name,

0:44:420:44:44

date of birth or other special message.

0:44:440:44:47

In 2015, we turned over £190,068,

0:44:480:44:52

producing 3,292 units with a net profit of £54,783.

0:44:520:45:00

In the first four months of 2016, we've seen a growth rate of 90.6%.

0:45:000:45:06

Thank you very much. We would love to show you some of our products.

0:45:060:45:09

A pitch with military precision from Rachel Day and Merry Whitaker.

0:45:110:45:16

They are looking to enlist a Dragon to their business by offering a 10%

0:45:160:45:20

stake in it. In return, they are asking for £50,000.

0:45:200:45:24

Can I just say I'm delighted I get the dragon

0:45:240:45:26

and Peter's got the monkey.

0:45:260:45:28

I like that a lot.

0:45:280:45:29

I promise you, it wasn't...

0:45:300:45:32

- Love it! - OK, got it.

0:45:330:45:35

Peter Jones is first to question the entrepreneurs.

0:45:350:45:39

I don't want to ask, but I'm hoping this commando is still

0:45:440:45:47

-alive somewhere?

-It's my husband's.

0:45:470:45:49

-It is her husband's shirt.

-Good.

0:45:490:45:50

He's actually in the building upstairs, I believe.

0:45:500:45:53

Is he, really? So that is a shirt.

0:45:530:45:55

So they send the shirt and then...

0:45:550:45:57

How do I choose this, and is most of your business online?

0:45:570:46:00

People can go onto our website. They can choose.

0:46:000:46:03

We've got lots of different types of keepsake categories.

0:46:030:46:06

That's what we call our military monkey.

0:46:060:46:08

So people select the item that they want,

0:46:080:46:11

they get a whole load of options that they can click on to add

0:46:110:46:14

embroidery, to make it large size, things like that.

0:46:140:46:18

And your team that work for you,

0:46:180:46:20

are they employed, or are they

0:46:200:46:21

on piece work, or are they self-employed? How does that work?

0:46:210:46:24

So, currently we have five people who are on employed contracts

0:46:240:46:28

and we have two or three who are self-employed.

0:46:280:46:31

And this year, what do you think your turnover is going to be?

0:46:310:46:34

Our projection for this year is 323,000.

0:46:340:46:38

What do you need to do to achieve that?

0:46:380:46:40

Can you do that within your existing organisation,

0:46:400:46:42

with the same number of seamstresses?

0:46:420:46:44

We actually take 44%, generally,

0:46:440:46:48

of our orders between the 1st of September and the end of November.

0:46:480:46:52

So it is quite a seasonal business.

0:46:520:46:54

So we have made relationships with a couple of local textile factories

0:46:540:46:58

that could offer us a number of hours per week to enable that

0:46:580:47:03

kind of rapid increase in orders.

0:47:030:47:06

That's really interesting.

0:47:060:47:07

I think that answers one of the questions that I had,

0:47:070:47:09

which is about one of the greatest problems with this kind of business

0:47:090:47:12

is managing seasonal demand.

0:47:120:47:14

Because you've got very little going on,

0:47:140:47:16

you have to have sufficient premises to be able to deal with your

0:47:160:47:19

Christmas spike and you've got to have people trained up

0:47:190:47:21

to deal with the Christmas spike

0:47:210:47:23

and then what do you with them

0:47:230:47:24

for the remaining nine months of the year?

0:47:240:47:26

But it sounds like you've got that cracked.

0:47:260:47:28

Very good.

0:47:300:47:31

If anyone knows about the problems of seasonality,

0:47:340:47:37

it's the king of greetings cards, Nick Jenkins.

0:47:370:47:40

But his obvious approval aside,

0:47:400:47:43

Peter Jones wants to know more about that spike in orders in the autumn.

0:47:430:47:47

-Why September?

-Just the build-up to Christmas.

0:47:490:47:52

OK, so that's nothing to do

0:47:520:47:53

with your specific marketing and targeting?

0:47:530:47:56

We do very limited marketing, currently.

0:47:560:47:59

And this is... A small part of the investment we want is to allocate

0:47:590:48:03

to a proper marketing budget.

0:48:030:48:05

Every time we've done a campaign, it has had great results.

0:48:050:48:08

We have worked it out basically that, in terms of net profit,

0:48:080:48:11

so for a £500 spend on Facebook advertising,

0:48:110:48:15

we get about £2,000 net profit.

0:48:150:48:18

Wow!

0:48:180:48:19

OK, my reaction to that would be, fill your boots!

0:48:200:48:25

-Exactly.

-And keep filling your boots until you reach resistance,

0:48:250:48:30

and then you wouldn't need us at all.

0:48:300:48:32

Partly, we've been hampered by our existing website

0:48:340:48:37

which hasn't been tracking the conversions.

0:48:370:48:41

So... And this is all part of our ongoing learning curve.

0:48:410:48:45

Like we said, we are not entrepreneurs

0:48:450:48:47

and businesspeople by nature.

0:48:470:48:49

We have got where we are today

0:48:490:48:50

through learning everything ourselves,

0:48:500:48:52

the long and hard way.

0:48:520:48:54

Don't think you're not an entrepreneur just because

0:48:540:48:56

you've had to learn the hard way.

0:48:560:48:57

I don't know any entrepreneur that hasn't learnt it the hard way.

0:48:570:49:00

Yeah. And your business has actually made a profit in its first year.

0:49:000:49:03

Mine certainly didn't do that.

0:49:030:49:05

So you are a much better entrepreneur than him.

0:49:050:49:07

Much, much, much better!

0:49:070:49:09

News of a profit quadrupling marketing plan

0:49:120:49:15

has certainly got the Dragons standing to attention.

0:49:150:49:18

And high street retailer Touker Suleyman

0:49:180:49:21

has another reason to be impressed.

0:49:210:49:23

Mine is made of a Hawes & Curtis shirt.

0:49:250:49:28

-Yes.

-A beautiful... What? 100 doubles fabric?

0:49:280:49:31

That our daddy dress. We take Mummy's, Daddy's,

0:49:320:49:35

grandparents' shirts, and when they get a bit worn out round the cuffs

0:49:350:49:39

and collars, we can turn them into a dress for a little girl.

0:49:390:49:41

We also do a version of a shirt for a little boy.

0:49:410:49:44

Somebody's gone to a lot of design skill to design that.

0:49:440:49:49

Do you have any of your stuffed animals ready-made

0:49:510:49:55

so you just put embroidery on and send it out?

0:49:550:49:58

Or everything you do is recycled?

0:49:580:50:01

At the moment, everything is recycled.

0:50:010:50:03

We haven't gone down that route at the moment

0:50:030:50:06

because this is working for us.

0:50:060:50:08

I can understand if you said, we've got 24 characters,

0:50:080:50:11

we can offer those ready-made

0:50:110:50:13

and that is for our instant business and we

0:50:130:50:16

offer another service which is a very niche business.

0:50:160:50:20

I'm not sure. I think you've got a great idea.

0:50:200:50:22

My only reservation would be...

0:50:220:50:24

..how far can you grow it?

0:50:270:50:29

Touker Suleyman casts a seed of doubt over the scalability

0:50:310:50:35

of this bespoke business.

0:50:350:50:37

But could Deborah Meaden be toying with investment?

0:50:380:50:41

People always say to me, "What's that moment in the Den?"

0:50:440:50:46

I say when you get the combination of clearly a good product

0:50:460:50:49

with good people, and you are that.

0:50:490:50:51

So, I am going to make you an offer,

0:50:530:50:55

and, following those words, it would be very rude of me not to offer

0:50:550:50:58

on the basis that you have asked.

0:50:580:51:00

So, make you an offer of £50,000 at the...

0:51:020:51:05

And I want 10% of the business, which is what you offered.

0:51:050:51:08

-Thank you.

-Thank you so much.

0:51:090:51:11

HE WHISTLES

0:51:140:51:16

An offer. And a rare one at that.

0:51:170:51:19

Asking for no more equity than the entrepreneurs wanted to give away.

0:51:190:51:23

But has Nick Jenkins seen it all before?

0:51:240:51:27

I get to see quite a lot of personalised gift businesses.

0:51:300:51:34

Surprise, surprise. And I think this is...

0:51:340:51:37

..one of the best personalised products I've seen.

0:51:390:51:41

Because it really touches on what's important about personalisation,

0:51:430:51:46

which is that sentimental connection with somebody,

0:51:460:51:48

and it's not just about writing people's names on things.

0:51:480:51:52

And it's about memories, and that's the most important thing.

0:51:520:51:55

So I'm going to make you an offer.

0:51:570:51:58

I'm going to offer you all the money

0:52:010:52:04

-for 10%.

-Thank you.

-Thanks.

0:52:040:52:07

Nick Jenkins aligns himself to the entrepreneurs with

0:52:100:52:14

compliments and an offer.

0:52:140:52:16

Does Sarah Willingham also want to love,

0:52:160:52:19

keep and create an investment?

0:52:190:52:22

I love the product. I think the fact

0:52:250:52:27

that quite genuinely it makes me choke a bit when I see that,

0:52:270:52:32

"We miss you Grandad."

0:52:320:52:33

And you think, it really is a memory you've created,

0:52:330:52:36

which I think is exceptional.

0:52:360:52:38

One of the things that I can really help you with is

0:52:390:52:42

on the Facebook advertising side.

0:52:420:52:44

We spend a lot of money on Facebook, with a very high conversion rate.

0:52:450:52:51

It is something we are very, very good at, so I think that is

0:52:510:52:54

something I can help with a lot.

0:52:540:52:55

So, yeah, I'm going to offer you all of the money for exactly what you've

0:52:580:53:01

came and asked for which is, I think, very fair.

0:53:010:53:04

10% of the business.

0:53:040:53:05

Thank you.

0:53:060:53:08

Sarah Willingham attempts to manoeuvre herself into pole position

0:53:110:53:15

by offering not only cash but also

0:53:150:53:18

help with that all-important marketing strategy.

0:53:180:53:22

Is Peter Jones poised to add to the hat-trick of offers already in

0:53:220:53:26

the mix?

0:53:260:53:27

I actually thought for the first time ever in Dragon's history that

0:53:290:53:33

you were going to get an offer for less equity than you asked for.

0:53:330:53:37

And I'm surprised that you haven't, actually.

0:53:420:53:44

So, I think you have a really,

0:53:470:53:50

really neat business, and it is something that...

0:53:500:53:53

..people will really radiate to, and I can see it.

0:53:550:53:58

But - and I do think this is a big but -

0:54:020:54:05

this is a tough business to grow

0:54:050:54:07

because I do think that it will be fairly niche.

0:54:070:54:12

When you bring awareness to it, I then think you're going to see

0:54:120:54:15

people entering the market.

0:54:150:54:17

So, sadly, I'm going to say

0:54:170:54:19

that I'm not going to invest and I'm out for those reasons,

0:54:190:54:23

but only because of those reasons.

0:54:230:54:26

Thank you.

0:54:260:54:27

Peter Jones politely declines the investment offer.

0:54:300:54:33

Can Touker Suleyman put his earlier worries over scale aside

0:54:330:54:38

to add the business to his textile empire?

0:54:380:54:41

Look, I think you're both great.

0:54:450:54:48

I think the product is great, I think your ideas are great.

0:54:480:54:51

You've already had three offers.

0:54:520:54:55

And I am torn because I know what I could do with it,

0:54:550:55:00

but it would take far too much of my time.

0:55:000:55:02

I would help you grow the business and...

0:55:020:55:08

Would you split it? Because you've got a lot of that...

0:55:110:55:13

Obviously, in terms of the production side?

0:55:130:55:16

Look, I'll be honest. If I was to do it, I'd want a bigger percentage.

0:55:250:55:28

It's not worth my while.

0:55:280:55:29

And for that reason, I'm out.

0:55:300:55:32

OK, thank you.

0:55:330:55:35

Touker Suleyman declines the offer,

0:55:360:55:38

leaving three Dragons in and two out.

0:55:380:55:42

Thank you all so much for your offers.

0:55:420:55:43

Would you mind if we just had two minutes just to chat?

0:55:450:55:48

Talk to the wall. Talk to the wall.

0:55:480:55:49

I...

0:55:540:55:55

Your experience is so great.

0:55:550:55:56

I know, I know. But I would want 25% of this.

0:55:560:56:00

Do you want to split it?

0:56:000:56:02

No. No. I think we just go for...

0:56:020:56:05

I think so. I just think...

0:56:050:56:07

With three identical bids on the table

0:56:070:56:10

it's not a question of which offer is right for the entrepreneurs

0:56:100:56:14

but which Dragon.

0:56:140:56:16

10% and it's £50,000.

0:56:160:56:19

-Let's do it.

-I'll say.

0:56:190:56:21

As I said, thank you so much for your offers and for your time,

0:56:270:56:31

for us to come and pitch to you today.

0:56:310:56:33

We have made a decision.

0:56:350:56:36

We would love to accept your offer, Deborah.

0:56:390:56:42

Thank you so much, Sarah, and Nick as well.

0:56:450:56:47

-We are really grateful.

-I'm really pleased.

0:56:470:56:49

Apart from anything else, I'm from your neck of the woods.

0:56:490:56:51

Victory. Merry and Rachel leave the Den

0:56:510:56:54

with exactly what they came in for -

0:56:540:56:57

£50,000 for 10% equity

0:56:570:56:59

and a Dragon with the know-how to take their business

0:56:590:57:02

to the next level.

0:57:020:57:04

Did that just happen? Did that just happen?

0:57:090:57:12

- Well done, Deborah. - I love that.

0:57:150:57:17

Well, I think you deserve, then, the monkey commando.

0:57:170:57:19

The commando? The monkey commando?

0:57:190:57:22

Thank you very much.

0:57:220:57:23

We are thrilled that we've got Deborah.

0:57:240:57:26

She's got some really relevant experience,

0:57:260:57:28

which will be amazing for us.

0:57:280:57:30

We are just so happy.

0:57:300:57:32

We really are. We need to go and sit down somewhere quiet and open

0:57:320:57:36

a bottle of wine, I think.

0:57:360:57:37

Memorable events in the Den.

0:57:440:57:46

Because there is no second chance when you get an offer from a Dragon.

0:57:460:57:50

You accept right there and then, or you leave with nothing.

0:57:500:57:54

We saw the full range of experiences.

0:57:540:57:56

Steve Pearce and Sam Coley stood their ground and refused to budge on

0:57:560:58:01

that all-important equity stake,

0:58:010:58:03

and then Rachel Day and Merry Whitaker had no

0:58:030:58:05

need to budge, they got exactly what they wanted from Deborah Meaden.

0:58:050:58:09

A striking contrast.

0:58:090:58:11

Coming up next time...

0:58:130:58:15

-You've named her the Don.

-I'm happy.

0:58:150:58:17

And then you call Peter Jones the jerk?

0:58:170:58:19

Is that your prediction -

0:58:200:58:21

that every household in the country will own one of those?

0:58:210:58:26

You've now moved into argument mode.

0:58:260:58:28

Take a deep breath and focus on the business.

0:58:280:58:31

You're too niche.

0:58:310:58:32

I think you'll really, really struggle, if I'm being honest.

0:58:320:58:35

It's a black hole, just eating money.

0:58:360:58:39

Oh, yes. Oh, yes, now we're talking.

0:58:390:58:43

I'm going to make you an offer.

0:58:430:58:44

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