Episode 7 Dragons' Den


Episode 7

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These are the Dragons,

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five of Britain's wealthiest and most enterprising business leaders.

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Over the coming weeks, they'll make or break the dreams

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of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

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Can I speak my mind? I think you've been so stupid.

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I wish you the best of luck,

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but as investor, I think I'd lose my shirt.

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The maximum you've made is £13,000.

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How am I ever going to see any of my £50,000?

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I consider this quite a punt, but I am going to make you an offer.

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Weakey, weakey, weakey, weakey, whoo!

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The multi-millionaire investors have each built up their fortunes from scratch.

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Hotel and health club owner, Duncan Bannatyne.

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Leisure industry expert, Deborah Meaden.

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Retail magnate, Theo Paphitis.

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Telecoms giant, Peter Jones.

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And Hilary Devey, who made her millions in the haulage industry.

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The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment and the cash ready to invest,

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but only in the right business.

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Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs

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walk away with their money?

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Welcome to Dragons' Den.

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In difficult times, more and more people are turning to business

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as a way of earning a living.

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The Den is the forum where deals are done

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and entrepreneurs secure the investment they so desperately need.

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But only if they can persuade any of our Dragons

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to part with their cash.

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Pitching in the Den can change lives,

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but only if investment is secured.

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Let's see how our first entrepreneurs get on.

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Hello, Dragons. My name's Nick. This is Richard and Sebastian.

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We're looking for £50,000 in exchange for 15 percent of our business.

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Bar Mate, like some good ideas,

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is the result of an evening in the pub in my student days.

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It was four-deep at the bar and I wondered, "Why does it take so long to get served?"

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I watched the bar staff and I realised that they spend most of their time holding the glass.

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I thought there was a huge efficiency gap there.

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If we designed something to hold the glass for them,

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that would free up their time so they could do other things.

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I got in touch with Seb, a product designer,

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and he'll explain where we are now.

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You take the pint glass, you lift up the tap, put the glass in.

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I can then go and take payment,

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and come back and the glass has taken care of itself and poured it to a predetermined level.

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I can come back and simply top it up.

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Our market is pubs, but in particular managed pubs, of which there are 9,000 in the UK.

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Each will typically have between ten and 20 taps that this is suitable for.

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That means a market between 90 and 180,000 units.

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Thank you for listening to us. We're happy to answer any questions.

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Penetrating a market as established as the pub trade is a tough ask,

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even with the most innovative of inventions.

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But that's what assured trio Nick, Richard and Sebastian believe they can do.

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In return for 15 percent of their company,

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they need £50,000 to take their prototype automated bar tap into production.

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Peter Jones is first to scrutinise the opportunity on offer.

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Guys, hi, I'm Peter.

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Before I start talking about that product, I want to talk about you.

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-A product designer by trade.

-That's right.

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-Richard, what do you do?

-I used to work in investment

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and for the last five years I ran a biotech company, up to the end of last year.

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-And Nick?

-I'm an architect. I've got a small practice of four people in Central London.

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OK. When I look at the product,

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I mean, I've worked in a bar, what you tend to see with barmen,

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they put the glass down, pull the tap and get other drinks.

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They keep an eye on it, flick the tap and come back to it.

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They're multi-tasking anyway.

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So, how can you convince me that somebody's going to replace an existing tap?

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The current system of trying to manage that without having flat beer,

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because if you pour into the glass from a height, it foams everywhere,

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so what they currently do is raise the glass to the correct height.

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Typically, they take a pint glass, reverse it and stick another on top,

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-which isn't a realistic solution.

-Right.

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And what do you think you'll be able to sell that for?

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We plan to sell it for a unit price of £90.

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We think it'll take about two months to recoup its costs for the pubs.

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We've been to Wetherspoons and their biggest complaint is customer waiting time,

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and they're interested in this.

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-They'd spend £90?

-They're already spending

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-between £30 and £70 on a normal tap, anyway.

-OK.

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It's early days for the business,

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but such interest from a major chain of pubs

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is bound to be of interest to an investor.

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Former football club chairman Theo Paphitis

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is next to question the confident trio.

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Guys, hello, I'm Theo.

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I've had to manage a business where you only had a very short window

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to get all your customers through,

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half time, just before the game,

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and the biggest problem was speed of delivery of the beer.

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Now, really, how much time are you saving?

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If you look at managed pubs, when you have very busy times, you might have four deep at the bar,

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someone walks up and asks for five pints of lager,

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they hold the first pint, they put it down,

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they hold the second... This is a long process.

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It takes, on average, 19 seconds to pour a pint.

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That's minutes. It frees the barman up to do other things.

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Nick, Richard, Sebastian, hi, I'm Deborah.

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This £90, how far have you got with establishing how that would be made, the material it would be made in?

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We've a complete quote for its manufacture

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and we've made allowances for the cost of shipping, VAT.

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And of the £90, there's also a cut for distribution.

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We've worked out that gives us a good gross profit.

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What are they going to cost you to make?

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We'd have a gross profit of 75 percent on the £90.

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-Sorry?

-We'd have a gross profit of 75 percent on the £90.

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Poised responses and a potentially profitable product,

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the entrepreneurs are putting on a good performance in the Den.

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But Hilary Devey looks to have something on her mind.

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Guys, I've been in and out of pubs all my life,

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and I was pulling pints,

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illegally, from the age of six, seven years of age!

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To be honest, if I'd got bar staff that couldn't add up the order in their head,

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open a bottle, put it on the counter,

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pour a spirit or a glass of wine and then deliver the pint,

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frankly, I'd think they were badly trained bar staff.

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I've got to say, I'm out.

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It's a first blow for the trio.

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Will Duncan Bannatyne agree with his rival's concerns?

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I think you guys are great and I'd love to invest with you,

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but if this really does work,

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all you need is to get one of the big brewery chains involved, work with them,

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giving them first advantage where they get the first order

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or give them a licence, I'm sure they'll snap your hand off.

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But it's not for me and for that reason, I'm out.

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Thank you.

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Guys, I think it's a great, inventive product.

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I think it's nicely designed.

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I'm concerned about the cost.

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I think that when you go into negotiations to replace the taps,

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you'll end up almost having to give it away at cost.

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I'm going to decline the investment because of the margin pressure I think it will come under

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when you try to put it into the market.

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I wish you the best of luck, but I'm going to say I'm out.

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Two more Dragons out.

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Can leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden

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find a reason to invest?

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One of the issues with speed pouring is, you get an awful lot of wastage.

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-How does this affect that?

-You don't have wastage because you set the level the pint stops at.

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So if you happen to have a barrel at a slightly different pressure

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and you find it's frothing over, you can adjust it.

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Where do you adjust that?

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It's a simple ring to adjust the pressure that it comes out at.

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-Have you got a patent?

-We do.

-Patent granted.

-Yes.

-For what?

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It's a UK patent and it covers the notion of a device

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which holds a glass at an angle, which declines as you fill it,

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and activates a valve to stop the filling.

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-And who owns the patent?

-I do.

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-And would you be prepared to transfer that into the company?

-Yes.

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Guys, has anybody said

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they will give you an order if this works?

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We have a pub chain who's willing to trial it.

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-How many?

-There's 15 pubs.

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Obviously, they'd start with a smaller number to test it,

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and roll it out if it was successful.

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Wetherspoons said they would trial it in their headquarters on site.

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Listen, I think it's, erm...

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It's a good idea and I could see the minute you showed it,

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I could see how it would work with the weight and everything else.

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Erm... I'm going to make you an offer.

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The full money, but I'd want 25 percent.

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At last, Nick, Richard and Sebastian have the offer they came in for,

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but for nearly twice as much as they initially wanted to give away.

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With one Dragon remaining,

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will they be able to negotiate themselves a better deal?

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I consider this quite a punt.

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It's early. You take it out there and somebody says,

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"We've got one of these that does that."

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But I am going to make you an offer.

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I'm going to make you an offer for half of the money,

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actually on the same terms that Theo was talking about.

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So we've now got two decisions to be made.

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Does the Dragon to my right, would he consider taking a partner?

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And would you consider taking that offer?

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We'd quite like to go into a huddle and talk about the offer.

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Thank you.

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It's an unusual occurrence in the Den.

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The entrepreneurs still only have one full offer on the table for 25 percent.

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THEY WHISPER

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Will they choose Theo Paphitis on his own,

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try and convince him to partner with Deborah,

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or will they choose to go with no Dragons at all?

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(My legs hurt!)

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Er... If you were to share your investment with Deborah,

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so that there's less capital at risk for either of you,

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we would like to suggest that you both invested £25,000 each for 10 percent each,

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so overall, 20 percent rather than 25 percent.

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That's really good logic,

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but it's such a small percentage to have.

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My logic says,

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if you've got two Dragons,

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especially with Deborah's experience in pubs, clubs and marketing,

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maybe the right figure should be 30 percent...

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..so we've got 15 percent each.

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Think about that. If you've got two Dragons,

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what that gives you is a lot more firepower.

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Deborah, how would you feel about that?

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Absolutely. I'd be happy with that.

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-I preferred our huddle!

-You preferred...!

-It was nicer.

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Is your original offer still on the table?

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-Yes.

-Thank you very much.

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(They could come down with the equity because they're sharing the risk.)

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-(I think we should take it.)

-(Which one?)

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THEY WHISPER INAUDIBLY

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(We didn't come just for the money.)

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We would like to take the offer of 30 percent, split between Theo and Deborah.

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-We didn't come just for the money.

-Fabulous!

-Excellent!

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Well done, fella.

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-Thank you.

-We didn't want to be home-wreckers!

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Nick, Richard and Sebastian have done it.

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For 30 percent of their business, they've gained £50,000

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and two multi-millionaire business partners.

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It seemed counter-intuitive to give away more,

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but we got two Dragons and that's got to be better than one!

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I think we might go for a drink!

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-Then Seb's got to make the production version.

-I have.

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Incorporate a company for the five of us.

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There's five in this marriage!

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Many entrepreneurs believe the key to success in the Den

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is to get the Dragons to experience at firsthand their business, service or product.

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This was true of Jacqui Thompson from Lincolnshire,

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who wanted a £50,000 investment

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in her police-themed educational workshops.

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Pulse was created in 2008

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as a way to engage children into liking science in a fun way.

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What I would like to do is to take you into my world of CSI.

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With all five Dragons turning into crime-scene investigators...

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Heads up!

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..the Den found itself embroiled in a different kind of enquiry.

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This is our crime scene.

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What we've got is, a fatality has happened in the Den.

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Duh, duh, duhh!

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It looks like somebody had an ice cream, whilst the attacker had a cigarette.

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They tried to rob them of their CD information.

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They missed the £10, but hit them over the head with a bottle.

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THEO: Who sells ice cream?

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Or who sold ice cream?

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-Upon initial inspection...

-Got prints.

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..Theo Paphitis applauded Jacqui's business concept.

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I think the theory of it is excellent.

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Teaching kids to learn through things that they're interested in,

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as opposed to sitting in class, would've done me the world of good at school.

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But problems soon arose

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as the Dragons forensically examined the business model.

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-Can I ask what you charge for this?

-Based on a year group of about 120,

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it works out at 1,495.

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Can you talk me through the mechanics,

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what turnover you're expecting?

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Er... First year,

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I turned over £16,000.

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Last year, £34,000

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with a net profit of £13,000.

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The maximum you made is £13,000.

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How am I ever going to see any of my £50,000 back?

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It's not a scalable business at all.

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It's wholly dependent on yourself, and if you get knocked down by that proverbial bus tomorrow,

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bang goes our investment.

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I'm out.

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The Dragons have been asked to invest in some very large products in the past,

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but Bola Lafe, who was a finance manager for a global bank,

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is offering up one of the smallest.

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Of course, as long as the profits are big enough, the Dragons won't mind.

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Hello, I'm Bola Lafe, managing director of Opus Innovations Ltd.

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I'm the inventor of the Cleebo baby and kids nasal mucus tweezers.

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I'm here to ask for £50,000 in exchange for 10 percent of the business.

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The pitch won't be based on the tweezers,

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although I have another number of products,

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but the first thing is the tweezers.

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We've got two children. When the first was about four months old,

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she often had a blocked nose and an uneasy time at night trying to breathe.

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We were paranoid about putting her to bed.

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Children and small babies cannot blow their noses, as we all know,

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and these are a way of removing the solid and semi-solid mucus.

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Once it's blocked, a lot of parents, and I know most of you are parents,

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they actually stick dangerous implements up their noses.

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To demonstrate them...

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And because of the shape of them, you can't go up too far.

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The main thing with these is safety.

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Our plan is to make this global

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and make sure every parent with a small child

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has a pair of Cleebo tweezers in the changing bag

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or in the bathroom cabinet.

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Thank you.

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Big aspirations from father-of-two Bola Lafe, from Kent.

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-Can I see those tweezers?

-Sure.

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He needs £50,000 to establish his range of baby accessories

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and is willing to part with 10 percent of his new company.

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Collectively, the Dragons have 17 children.

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What will Theo Paphitis make of Bola's invention?

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-Bola, hello.

-Hi, Theo.

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OK, I've got five kids

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and I'm sure we've all nursed a child that's been poorly and has had a blocked nose.

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-Yes.

-So, what have we done

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to clear that congestion?

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The top five things, and we surveyed 2,000 parents,

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the first thing they did was fingernails.

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They just used that.

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The second thing was cotton buds. If you slip, that goes straight up the nose.

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The third thing, believe it or not,

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-people use metal tweezers, which is what prompted this.

-Never!

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I have seen the fingernail. Do you know what? I think it's safe.

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-Fingernail was number one.

-A mother's fingernail just seems to manage.

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I've seen them do it so many times. I can't do it.

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Women just do it with their finger.

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The problem is, their nasal lining is very thin. That's why we've got the doctors involved -

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A fingernail doesn't really go up. The snot is there

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and you just go "weakey, weakey, weakey, weakey, whoo!"

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A rather un-Dragon-like response perhaps,

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but at least the multi-millionaires are engaging with the problem at hand.

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Can Peter Jones bring a little order back to proceedings?

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Bola, I'm praying that you've got something else, apart from bogey tweezers.

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I'll show you the others.

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These products haven't been commercialised yet. These are concepts and prototypes.

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This first product here...

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..is our take on the new wet-wipe holders.

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Babies move around a lot, they need distracting,

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so the different components come off. That could be a rattle.

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-Wet wipes in the middle.

-Got it.

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This one is a game that doubles up as a learning aid.

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The idea is that, once you've studied the pack, you can take a card away

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and whoever's playing has time to guess what card's gone.

0:21:580:22:02

-Do you have any products that you currently sell? The tweezers?

-Yes.

0:22:020:22:08

-What price do you sell them for?

-£5.99.

0:22:080:22:11

-What's your revenue since you started?

-About £8,000.

-And your profit?

0:22:110:22:15

The profit, er, year one

0:22:150:22:18

would be an 80,000 loss.

0:22:180:22:21

OK. So, you've tested the concept and you've sold £8,000?

0:22:210:22:24

-Is that why you've gone to other products?

-Not at all. I've not been focused full time.

0:22:240:22:29

I've been doing it in my spare time.

0:22:290:22:31

-You've had a job up until now.

-Yes.

-What was the day job?

0:22:310:22:35

I was a managing director at one of the global investment banks.

0:22:350:22:40

-Which bank?

-Citibank.

0:22:400:22:42

-Managing director at Citibank?

-Expense management.

0:22:420:22:44

-Expense management.

-For Europe and Asia, so I ran two regions.

0:22:440:22:48

-How many people reported to you?

-About 50.

0:22:480:22:52

Any thoughts of baby talk are long gone

0:22:550:22:58

as Bola's impressive credentials come to the fore.

0:22:580:23:01

Deborah Meaden is next to interrogate the former banker.

0:23:010:23:06

How much money have you put into this business?

0:23:080:23:11

-With everything, just over 200,000.

-Oh, my God.

0:23:110:23:15

OK.

0:23:150:23:17

-So, is that 200,000 already spent?

-It is, yes.

0:23:170:23:21

When you put your £200,000 in, what was your business plan?

0:23:210:23:26

When did you think you were going to get cash back from that?

0:23:260:23:29

We saw that as being from about the fourth year.

0:23:290:23:32

We're looking at numbers of 1.4 million.

0:23:320:23:35

And after that, the following year, 3.5.

0:23:350:23:39

Sorry. In four years, you're going to be making 1.4 million profit?

0:23:390:23:43

Yes. Because we've based this on kind of global numbers.

0:23:430:23:47

OK. Erm... You've already spent 200,000.

0:23:480:23:51

-Yes.

-How much more money are you going to have to spend before you get into profit?

0:23:510:23:56

About 100,000.

0:23:560:23:59

-But we're still trying to get the word out there.

-Bola, Bola, I've made my mind up.

0:24:000:24:04

I cannot imagine that you are ever going to see

0:24:040:24:10

any part of your £200,000 recouped

0:24:100:24:13

through one very small product.

0:24:130:24:17

-And the trouble is, your follow-up products, I don't think, are very good.

-OK.

0:24:170:24:21

I think you've been pretty foolhardy with your 200,000.

0:24:210:24:26

Right. OK.

0:24:260:24:27

I'm out.

0:24:270:24:29

A frank exchange and an early loss.

0:24:310:24:34

Bola's contrasting revelations

0:24:340:24:36

are eliciting strong responses from the Dragons.

0:24:360:24:40

Will Hilary Devey see an opportunity to invest?

0:24:400:24:44

Bola, you're obviously a family man, you obviously love your children,

0:24:450:24:50

but why would you give up a job as managing director to pursue that?

0:24:500:24:56

I'm passionate about it. I made sure the family is protected for the next two years

0:24:560:25:01

while we explore these products.

0:25:010:25:04

And at the end of the day, if this doesn't work, I've got the ability to go back to the City.

0:25:040:25:09

I think people are underestimating the problem.

0:25:090:25:12

-I don't blame you for -

-Well, no, I am a mother

0:25:120:25:14

and I brought my own child up and...

0:25:140:25:17

We've done the research.

0:25:170:25:19

Like we've all said, you'd use your finger or a tissue.

0:25:190:25:23

-Doctors recommend not to use a finger.

-He's now 25 years of age

0:25:230:25:27

and a big handsome lad!

0:25:270:25:29

I do respect people's views, but the experts have looked at it

0:25:290:25:33

and they have a different view because they see what goes on in the real world.

0:25:330:25:38

You may have different views on this, but I'll prove you wrong.

0:25:380:25:43

No question about it on this, because we know this is a problem.

0:25:430:25:46

I've never failed at anything I've done.

0:25:460:25:49

I would not give up my career to fail at this.

0:25:490:25:52

I wouldn't waste anyone's money if you decided to invest.

0:25:520:25:55

What you're getting is... I will make it work.

0:25:550:25:59

Erm... It's just... It's who I am.

0:25:590:26:03

A valiant plea from the assured entrepreneur.

0:26:060:26:10

But will it be enough to salvage his dreams of investment?

0:26:100:26:14

Duncan Bannatyne is now ready to have his say.

0:26:140:26:18

OK, Bola, I would never, ever recommend

0:26:200:26:23

anyone use conventional tweezers or hair pins,

0:26:230:26:26

but I have seen parents using fingernails, cotton buds and twisted tissue.

0:26:260:26:32

Whether or not these things are right to use, I don't know,

0:26:320:26:37

but I would rather use any of these three things than use this.

0:26:370:26:41

-But why would -

-Nothing you have there is new or innovative or can't be copied.

0:26:410:26:47

So for that reason, I have to say where I am and that is out.

0:26:470:26:50

OK.

0:26:500:26:52

Bola, the business,

0:26:520:26:54

as much as I know you're hoping on the next innovation, and there's nothing wrong with hoping,

0:26:540:26:59

I don't see anything here.

0:26:590:27:02

I wish you the best of luck on your journey,

0:27:020:27:05

but as an investor, I think I'd lose my shirt.

0:27:050:27:10

-I'm out.

-OK.

0:27:100:27:12

Two more Dragons walk away from the deal

0:27:150:27:17

and Bola's initial confidence is starting to wane.

0:27:170:27:21

And it doesn't look as though Hilary Devey

0:27:210:27:24

is about to change his fortunes either.

0:27:240:27:27

I don't think I can invest my money in this.

0:27:280:27:31

I don't believe I'd get my money back.

0:27:310:27:34

And I think you will end up back in the City.

0:27:340:27:37

So I wish you all the luck in the world,

0:27:370:27:40

but I'm out.

0:27:400:27:43

Bola, I've been listening because you've got such a credible background,

0:27:440:27:49

you're incredibly well presented, you're articulate.

0:27:490:27:54

Now, you've got a product there,

0:27:540:27:58

is it a horrendous product that's never going to sell?

0:27:580:28:02

Actually, I don't think it is.

0:28:020:28:05

You'll sell some.

0:28:050:28:07

Not enough to pay me back my 50 grand, that's for certain.

0:28:070:28:10

So for that reason, I'm going to say to you that I'm out.

0:28:100:28:14

OK.

0:28:140:28:17

Pitching to the Dragons can be a chastening experience

0:28:180:28:22

for even the most impressive of entrepreneurs.

0:28:220:28:25

Bola leaves with nothing.

0:28:250:28:27

Many businessmen and women who enter the Den

0:28:340:28:37

start off their entrepreneurial journey

0:28:370:28:39

while still holding down a day job.

0:28:390:28:43

This was true of serving officer in the airborne infantry Paul Blair...

0:28:430:28:47

He's lovely!

0:28:470:28:49

..who needed £80,000 for his canine safety accessory.

0:28:490:28:54

When I was taking my dog for a walk, I threw a stick for him to chase

0:28:540:28:58

and as it was tumbling, he ran onto it and injured his mouth.

0:28:580:29:01

After seeing a gap in the market, I created Safestix.

0:29:010:29:06

Having recently completed a charity skydive,

0:29:060:29:09

Duncan was more interested in Paul's other occupation.

0:29:090:29:13

-Where are you serving?

-In the Parachute Regiment.

0:29:130:29:17

-The Parachute Regiment.

-Yes.

-Where?

-Netheravon.

0:29:170:29:21

-Are you?

-Yes.

-Did I meet you when I sky-jumped?

-No. I made a point to avoid you.

0:29:210:29:26

But the Dragons weren't so impressed by the details of his business.

0:29:270:29:32

-How much have you invested in this?

-To date, £46,000.

0:29:320:29:35

Wow.

0:29:360:29:38

-Can I speak my mind?

-Please do.

0:29:380:29:40

I think you've been so stupid.

0:29:400:29:43

I don't really think you need investment.

0:29:430:29:46

Why not go back to the manufacturers,

0:29:460:29:49

say, "You manufacture it",

0:29:490:29:51

let them sell them to retailers, and then take your royalties?

0:29:510:29:55

OK, they'll then get a mark-up.

0:29:550:29:57

However, Paul did achieve one thing in the Den,

0:29:570:30:00

and that was to divide the Dragons about the best way forward for his business.

0:30:000:30:05

So Paul rings him and says,

0:30:050:30:07

"I want you to make more of these things, but I'm not going to pay you.

0:30:070:30:12

"I want you to sell them and send me some money."

0:30:120:30:17

-Is that what you're telling Paul to do?

-That'd be great if it works.

0:30:170:30:20

-That's a fantastic model!

-OK.

0:30:200:30:22

I totally disagree with Hilary's comment that what you've done is stupid.

0:30:220:30:28

The reason I want to make that clear is because you might be packing my parachute!

0:30:280:30:34

Get that in now!

0:30:340:30:36

It's not an investable business because it's never going to make enough money.

0:30:360:30:40

I'm out.

0:30:400:30:42

So far tonight, only one business has secured an investment offer from the Dragons.

0:30:430:30:49

Fabulous!

0:30:490:30:50

If you'd like to hear from Theo and Deborah

0:30:500:30:52

about why they chose to invest in the entrepreneurial trio...

0:30:520:30:56

-We didn't want to be home-wreckers!

-..press the red button at the end of the programme.

0:30:560:31:00

It's never too late to pursue a business idea.

0:31:030:31:06

Our next entrepreneur is developing a concept that she first had in the 1960s.

0:31:060:31:11

71-year-old inventor Wendy Thompson, from the Isle of Wight,

0:31:110:31:15

hopes the Dragons will think it's worth the wait.

0:31:150:31:18

Hello. My name's Wendy Thompson.

0:31:370:31:40

I'd like to offer you 40 percent of my business

0:31:400:31:44

in return for £50,000.

0:31:440:31:47

Erm... Many years ago, when I was in my early 20s,

0:31:480:31:53

I specialised in the treatment of children.

0:31:530:31:57

I couldn't get the equipment I needed to, er, augment my treatment.

0:31:570:32:02

So I invented some.

0:32:020:32:05

But there was one piece of equipment that I never designed and developed,

0:32:050:32:09

the Health Swing.

0:32:090:32:12

The Ancient Greeks got there first

0:32:120:32:14

because they used to use swinging as a magical transformational activity.

0:32:140:32:20

So with the Health Swing, you've got the ancient but with a modern twist.

0:32:200:32:25

Coming fast-forward to about 15 months ago,

0:32:250:32:30

my husband had a stroke

0:32:300:32:33

and we both had to adjust.

0:32:330:32:36

And I thought, "Right, I'd better sell my cattle."

0:32:360:32:41

I had two lovely herds of cattle.

0:32:410:32:44

And then I thought I wanted to use the money in designing the swing.

0:32:440:32:51

It's a progressive, whole body exerciser.

0:32:510:32:55

It strengthens and it mobilises.

0:32:550:32:58

I'd just like to demonstrate the swing now.

0:32:580:33:02

It is only a prototype.

0:33:020:33:05

Elizabeth is going to demonstrate it without any resistance.

0:33:060:33:12

Right, now, I'm going to... THEY LAUGH

0:33:120:33:16

I'm going to put up the resistance. Er...

0:33:160:33:19

Right, off you go.

0:33:200:33:22

I've put the resistance up quite a lot, so she's having to work at it.

0:33:220:33:27

She's burning up more calories,

0:33:270:33:30

she's using her cardiovascular system,

0:33:300:33:33

her respiratory system, as well.

0:33:330:33:37

Thank you.

0:33:370:33:39

Thank you very much.

0:33:390:33:41

After nearly 50 years with it on the drawing board,

0:33:410:33:45

physiotherapist and lecturer Wendy Thompson

0:33:450:33:48

believes the time is right to launch her new therapeutic rehabilitation swing.

0:33:480:33:54

She needs £50,000.

0:33:540:33:56

It seems to have brought back memories for one Dragon.

0:33:560:34:01

-Hello. I'm Theo.

-Hello, Theo.

0:34:020:34:04

As a kid, I used to always like to be on a swing.

0:34:040:34:08

-Yes.

-OK? And it really is therapeutic.

0:34:080:34:11

But the minute you put the resistance up, it became a workout.

0:34:110:34:16

And do you know what?

0:34:160:34:18

It didn't look very nice.

0:34:180:34:21

Well, I'm sorry you didn't like it, but you don't have to have it as an exercise machine.

0:34:210:34:27

You can just get on it and go.

0:34:270:34:29

I've been to gyms... You see, in our world,

0:34:290:34:33

not everybody can go to the gym.

0:34:330:34:36

If they had this in their home, they can watch TV,

0:34:360:34:40

they can actually increase their blood supply.

0:34:400:34:42

I know! But we're going to get it down!

0:34:420:34:45

This was just made to prove the concept.

0:34:450:34:48

Could it be adjusted to hang from a ceiling or a door frame?

0:34:480:34:54

-Yes. This was just made for the prototype.

-OK.

0:34:540:34:58

Authoritative responses from the likeable entrepreneur.

0:35:020:35:05

So what of her background? Peter Jones wants to know.

0:35:050:35:10

Wendy, you mentioned caring, you've done amazing things, but have you ever set a business up?

0:35:110:35:17

I was born on a farm and, you know, farming is business.

0:35:170:35:23

I worked before I went to school, milked a cow, that sort of thing.

0:35:230:35:27

So that really, I suppose,

0:35:270:35:29

was where I became resilient and I'd sort of solve things.

0:35:290:35:34

Then, er, then I had a career in chartered physiotherapy.

0:35:340:35:40

Then I took a degree in rehabilitation at Southampton, which was research.

0:35:400:35:46

But it's not until now that I've been able to say,

0:35:460:35:50

"Right, this is what I'd like to do more of."

0:35:500:35:53

-Wendy.

-Yes?

0:35:530:35:56

-How much is it?

-What I thought was, there's three markets,

0:35:560:35:59

a home market, the gym market and the rehabilitation.

0:35:590:36:04

-The home market is perhaps the most valuable.

-Yes.

0:36:040:36:07

So I'd have a small version made for the home.

0:36:070:36:11

-How much would it cost?

-That would be retailing at £500.

-OK.

0:36:110:36:16

Tell me about the people who can't get the gym. Who are they?

0:36:160:36:20

Well, just take my bank manager. He comes back home -

0:36:200:36:25

Why can't he drive to the gym and walk in the front door?

0:36:250:36:29

Because actually, there's not too many gyms on the Isle of Wight, which is where I come from.

0:36:290:36:34

-You live on the Isle of Wight?

-I do.

0:36:340:36:36

-Have you not got a gym there?

-No, I haven't, no.

0:36:360:36:40

-OK, let's put the Isle of Wight to one side.

-OK.

0:36:400:36:45

Because you said that you'd been to gyms.

0:36:450:36:48

Which gym have you been to with this that said they would buy one?

0:36:480:36:54

Freshwater.

0:36:540:36:55

Never heard of it. Where is that?

0:36:550:36:57

-On the Isle of Wight.

-OK.

0:36:570:36:59

LAUGHTER

0:36:590:37:01

-Wendy...!

-HILARY LAUGHS

0:37:010:37:04

-Wendy.

-But actually -

0:37:040:37:08

-Can I get back to why you came in here?

-Yes.

-OK.

0:37:080:37:11

-Wendy...

-HILARY LAUGHS

0:37:110:37:15

Do you know my Auntie Joyce on the Isle of Wight?

0:37:150:37:18

THEY LAUGH LOUDLY

0:37:180:37:20

The Dragons are clearly beguiled by Wendy

0:37:240:37:27

and the atmosphere is far from Den-like.

0:37:270:37:30

But Hilary Devey wants to bring it back to business.

0:37:300:37:34

Wendy, hi. I'm Hilary.

0:37:360:37:39

Erm... Have you spoke to

0:37:390:37:42

neurologists and neuro physios about this product?

0:37:420:37:46

-No.

-Why?

-Because, to be honest, Hilary, I don't really need to,

0:37:460:37:51

-because I'm the one -

-Yes, you do.

-Right.

0:37:510:37:55

-A few years ago, I had a stroke.

-Did you?

-Quite a serious stroke.

0:37:550:37:59

-Yes.

-I couldn't even spell the word "the".

0:37:590:38:01

I went from running a £100 million- turnover business one day

0:38:010:38:06

-to not even being able to put pyjamas on the next.

-That's terrible.

0:38:060:38:11

And at the time, they didn't have the right equipment in the hospital

0:38:110:38:16

to give me the right physio for the type of stroke that I had,

0:38:160:38:20

and I ended up with a paralysed hand, arm and leg.

0:38:200:38:25

And to this day, I'm still experiencing that.

0:38:250:38:28

-Right.

-Because there is definitely a shortage of this equipment.

-Yes.

0:38:280:38:32

Both in the private sector and the NHS.

0:38:320:38:36

So if it works and you've got neurologists on side to say it works for post-stroke victims,

0:38:360:38:42

I definitely think you have a market in the health sector.

0:38:420:38:46

Hilary, I know I've got a market.

0:38:460:38:49

A candid exchange

0:38:520:38:54

and one that ends with a passionate defence of her product.

0:38:540:38:57

Now, will Deborah Meaden be tempted to invest in Wendy?

0:38:570:39:02

In terms of the market,

0:39:040:39:07

have you talked to anybody at all about supplying these to them?

0:39:070:39:11

No, I haven't. I need some money to put it to production design.

0:39:110:39:15

I guess what I'm looking for here is some indication

0:39:150:39:19

of anybody you would supply it to being interested in buying it.

0:39:190:39:24

I actually went on a cruise,

0:39:240:39:27

and so I have spoken to other therapists and sort of said,

0:39:270:39:32

"What would your reaction be to this sort of equipment?"

0:39:320:39:37

OK. I'm going to be very short on my questioning.

0:39:370:39:41

Before you go to all of that expense,

0:39:410:39:43

finalising it and then going to a market and the market saying, "No, not interested,"

0:39:430:39:49

find somebody who thinks it's such a good solution to the problem

0:39:490:39:55

that they will either invest in you,

0:39:550:39:57

or at very least say, "When it is produced,

0:39:570:40:02

"I'll buy one, preferably some."

0:40:020:40:05

I won't be investing. I'm out.

0:40:050:40:08

Thank you.

0:40:080:40:10

Heartfelt advice, but no cash.

0:40:110:40:15

Theo Paphitis looks to have made up his mind, too.

0:40:150:40:19

Wendy, you're fabulous,

0:40:190:40:22

but I don't actually think this is a money-making venture, and that's what I'm here to do.

0:40:220:40:28

I'm going to say to you thanks for giving us the opportunity,

0:40:280:40:31

but it's not for me. I'm out.

0:40:310:40:35

Erm, it's not something that any gym owner

0:40:350:40:39

is going to buy and put in his health clubs or gyms,

0:40:390:40:42

because it doesn't add anything.

0:40:420:40:45

So for that reason, I'm going to say where I am.

0:40:450:40:48

-I'm out.

-Thank you.

0:40:480:40:51

Wendy, I don't see this product getting into the domestic home.

0:40:510:40:56

In terms of the swing, it's fantastic, but the swing has been around for a long time.

0:40:560:41:01

So I don't see that as a real scalable business opportunity

0:41:010:41:05

because I'm not convinced that people would want to buy one.

0:41:050:41:10

-I'm going to say I'm out.

-Thank you.

0:41:100:41:14

Three Dragons out in quick succession.

0:41:150:41:18

Now only Hilary Devey can rescue Wendy's investment dreams.

0:41:180:41:25

Wendy, because you're so lovely,

0:41:250:41:28

I'm tempted to say, "There's 50 grand."

0:41:280:41:31

But that would be my heart ruling my head.

0:41:310:41:34

Commercially, that would be totally the wrong thing for me to do,

0:41:340:41:39

because 50 grand will go nowhere.

0:41:390:41:42

I can't invest any money,

0:41:420:41:44

but what I will invest is time with The Stroke Association

0:41:440:41:49

and some top neuro physios that I know

0:41:490:41:51

to see whether or not they think there's an opening for this

0:41:510:41:55

in the private medical sector or in the NHS.

0:41:550:41:59

-I'm more than happy to spend time with you.

-Thank you very much.

0:42:000:42:04

So, unfortunately, from a business perspective, I've got to say I'm out.

0:42:040:42:09

But the offer is there. Please do contact me.

0:42:090:42:12

Thank you. Thank you all.

0:42:120:42:15

Charmed as they were, none of the Dragons could find enough of a reason to invest.

0:42:170:42:22

Wendy leaves with nothing.

0:42:220:42:25

Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the Den

0:42:320:42:36

included Gareth and Brian Smith from Derbyshire,

0:42:360:42:39

with their low-fat snack company.

0:42:390:42:42

Mature cheddar and spring onion.

0:42:420:42:45

They wanted £250,000

0:42:450:42:47

and were offering just a ten-percent stake.

0:42:470:42:51

I'm here with Dad

0:42:510:42:53

to talk to you about our unique baked snack called Crips.

0:42:530:42:58

Brian revealed a credible past.

0:42:590:43:02

I'm a consultant food technologist. I developed the sog-resistant crouton

0:43:020:43:06

which goes into soups.

0:43:060:43:09

But it was the current state of their business that concerned Theo.

0:43:090:43:14

-You've come in with a real racy valuation.

-But pragmatic.

0:43:140:43:18

It's only going to be pragmatic

0:43:180:43:21

if Gareth has got some incredible sales figures.

0:43:210:43:25

Last year, we turned over £227,000. A net loss of £80,000.

0:43:250:43:31

The year before, as well, that was minus 93.

0:43:310:43:35

-There was a year before that.

-OK.

-And we had a 165 net loss.

0:43:350:43:39

It was a disclosure that marked the end for the father and son's hopes of investment.

0:43:390:43:45

A company that loses money every year and has been valued at £2.5 million

0:43:450:43:50

is quite ridiculous.

0:43:500:43:52

Not if you have the vision of a brand and a product which is unique.

0:43:520:43:57

You have this vision?

0:43:570:43:58

I don't have the vision, and for that reason, I'm out.

0:43:580:44:03

Warrington-based Ian Wilson needed £50,000

0:44:040:44:08

to launch his new greener bicycle accessory.

0:44:080:44:12

Hello, Dragons.

0:44:120:44:13

I'm here today to show you my revolutionary product.

0:44:130:44:18

As the bicycle moves along, the airflow turns the fan.

0:44:180:44:23

I'd like to try it on the bike.

0:44:230:44:25

-Can you tell if this is working?

-PETER: Faster!

-It's working.

0:44:260:44:32

With proof of concept achieved, Deborah Meaden wanted proof of market potential.

0:44:330:44:38

What's the closest alternative?

0:44:380:44:41

There's solar ones, but they're quite expensive. They're about £80.

0:44:410:44:45

-And how much do you think yours would sell at?

-About 25.

0:44:450:44:49

The pushbike has got lots of moving parts that you can harness.

0:44:500:44:55

There's other things that are out there that do the same job,

0:44:550:44:59

from solar, to dynamos, to batteries,

0:44:590:45:03

and they don't cost anything like this.

0:45:030:45:06

This is not an investable business. I'm out.

0:45:060:45:10

Thank you.

0:45:100:45:11

Motorbike enthusiast and former milkman

0:45:150:45:18

Simon Booth, from Somerset, is next into the Den.

0:45:180:45:20

He's one of the lucky entrepreneurs who's transformed a personal passion into a money-making business

0:45:200:45:26

and he hopes the Dragons will recognise its potential.

0:45:260:45:30

Hello. My name's Simon Booth.

0:46:000:46:03

I'm here today looking for £75,000 for 10 percent of my business.

0:46:030:46:09

Kiddimoto, since 2004

0:46:090:46:13

is the award-winning designer, developer, distributor, manufacturer

0:46:130:46:19

of unique wooden balance bikes for two to five year olds.

0:46:190:46:26

Balance bikes are the perfect way

0:46:260:46:29

to start children onto cycling.

0:46:290:46:33

Customers include John Lewis,

0:46:330:46:37

Evans Cycles, Honda, Suzuki,

0:46:370:46:42

Triumph, to name but a few.

0:46:420:46:44

We project that sales revenues

0:46:440:46:47

will hit the £5 million mark in 2014.

0:46:470:46:51

Thank you.

0:46:510:46:53

Now Ruby's going to give you a demonstration.

0:46:530:46:57

Grand claims from Simon Booth, who's brought along his three-year-old daughter

0:47:000:47:04

to demonstrate his pedal-free children's balance bikes.

0:47:040:47:08

In return for a ten percent stake,

0:47:080:47:11

the Somerset entrepreneur needs £75,0000 to expand his company.

0:47:110:47:16

-Well done, Ruby.

-DRAGONS: Bye-bye, Ruby!

0:47:160:47:20

Theo Paphitis looks impressed.

0:47:210:47:24

-Simon. Hello, I'm Theo.

-Hello, Theo.

0:47:280:47:31

-It looks a great product.

-Thank you.

-Looks a quality product.

0:47:310:47:34

I just want some quick numbers so I can tune into what you do.

0:47:340:47:38

It started at trade shows, or consumer shows, selling direct.

0:47:380:47:43

-It's the numbers I'm after.

-We sold in the first year 300 units, and that was mostly direct.

0:47:430:47:48

-I'd go and knock on doors -

-It's the numbers I'm after.

0:47:480:47:52

£30,000 first year.

0:47:520:47:55

-Good.

-£50,000.

0:47:550:47:57

£100... Er, £265,000.

0:47:570:48:02

Then it went up to... Er, last year it was 490.

0:48:020:48:08

-Do you make any profit?

-Yes.

-How much did you make last year?

-£30,000.

0:48:080:48:12

-So, you made a clear profit of £30,000?

-Yes.

0:48:120:48:15

-How much do they cost to make?

-£20.

0:48:150:48:18

-And you sell them to the retailer for how much?

-For an average of £50.

0:48:180:48:23

-And they retail at what price?

-About £100.

0:48:230:48:27

Impressed by the figures and impressed with the product,

0:48:290:48:33

Simon has made a good impression on the Dragons.

0:48:330:48:36

But Duncan Bannatyne looks distracted.

0:48:360:48:40

Simon, I'm confused as to why the motorbike's here.

0:48:400:48:43

Because that's where the initial idea came from.

0:48:430:48:47

These are replicas of motorcycles.

0:48:470:48:49

-But do you own it?

-That's my bike, yes.

-OK.

0:48:490:48:53

Where did you say you're selling these?

0:48:530:48:56

Independently-owned bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, toy stores.

0:48:560:49:01

So this is what I would do if I was in your position.

0:49:010:49:05

I would sell my motorbike, borrow money on credit cards,

0:49:050:49:10

-and do everything I could to buy stock to keep 100 percent of my company.

-OK.

0:49:100:49:14

-Why don't you do that?

-The reason I've come to Dragons' Den

0:49:140:49:17

is really because it's not just the investment.

0:49:170:49:21

It would possibly be the help that comes with an investment,

0:49:210:49:27

that has got an incredible amount of business background and acumen

0:49:270:49:32

that I can bounce ideas.

0:49:320:49:35

-THEO: So, you've come in here to find a friend?

-Kind of, I guess!

0:49:350:49:39

Give us a look at one. They look really good.

0:49:390:49:43

A heartfelt plea from the entrepreneur.

0:49:450:49:49

But how will he fair under the scrutiny of Deborah Meaden?

0:49:490:49:54

Erm, I've got to say, I think you've done really well.

0:49:550:49:59

-Thank you.

-You've generated half a million pounds of turnover.

0:49:590:50:02

I sat up and listened then! And then I thought, "Ooh, that only translated to £30,000 profit."

0:50:020:50:08

-What's your take on that?

-We just had a late delivery of stock,

0:50:080:50:13

so that went in the books as...

0:50:130:50:15

That doesn't affect your profit, because you paid, what, £100,000 for your stock,

0:50:150:50:21

-you've got £100,000 worth of stock, so that doesn't affect profit.

-OK.

-I'm purely focusing on profit.

0:50:210:50:26

I just want to understand why half a million

0:50:260:50:29

-turns to 30,000.

-Yes. Sure.

0:50:290:50:31

-What are your overheads? Go through that.

-OK.

0:50:310:50:35

Key overheads will be exhibitions...

0:50:350:50:38

Put some numbers against those. How much do you spend on exhibitions?

0:50:380:50:42

-Exhibitions is in the region of 45 to 50,000.

-OK.

0:50:420:50:47

-Wages and salaries?

-I think £45,000.

0:50:470:50:51

-OK, and what about your rent?

-It's about £15,000, I guess.

0:50:510:50:56

At the moment, you've managed to explain 100,000 to me.

0:50:560:50:59

Right.

0:50:590:51:01

I must apologise, I can't pull those figures out of my head.

0:51:010:51:05

You need to!

0:51:050:51:07

-Do you know how important this is?

-Sure.

0:51:070:51:10

This is the whole business model.

0:51:110:51:13

You've explained half of your costs,

0:51:130:51:17

-and half you're really struggling to explain.

-Sure.

0:51:170:51:20

Which...

0:51:200:51:22

It doesn't sound good, does it, Simon?

0:51:220:51:24

Right now, your track record is telling me

0:51:250:51:28

your net profit ratio is diabolical.

0:51:280:51:32

OK, Simon, I'm really sorry,

0:51:330:51:36

-you've failed to explain to me the business model.

-I appreciate that.

0:51:360:51:40

There's clearly a market! You've got half a million in sales.

0:51:400:51:44

I'm out.

0:51:450:51:48

A failure to make the numbers add up rarely goes down well in the Den.

0:51:490:51:54

Simon loses his first Dragon.

0:51:540:51:57

Peter Jones looks to have made his mind up, too.

0:51:570:52:01

I'm going to be quite quick.

0:52:030:52:05

You've taken a product to market, you've designed it yourself,

0:52:050:52:08

that is to be congratulated,

0:52:080:52:11

but I think it would be very difficult for me to invest...

0:52:110:52:15

..in somebody that is going to require

0:52:150:52:18

and expect a lot of assistance and mentoring and time.

0:52:180:52:23

Erm... That's something that, unfortunately,

0:52:230:52:26

-I have very little of - time.

-Sure.

0:52:260:52:29

-It's not an investment for me. I'm out.

-OK, thank you.

0:52:290:52:33

Simon, I'm not a million miles away from that.

0:52:340:52:37

I love the product.

0:52:370:52:40

Difficult to come here and spout numbers, but you should've been better prepared.

0:52:400:52:45

I'd love to be your friend, but I'm not going to make any money.

0:52:450:52:49

-I'm out.

-Thank you very much.

0:52:490:52:52

Two more Dragons walk away from investing in Simon and his business.

0:52:530:52:59

Can logistics expert Hilary Devey

0:52:590:53:02

find a reason to throw him the financial lifeline he badly needs?

0:53:020:53:06

-Simon, you say they actually cost £20 to make?

-Yes.

0:53:080:53:14

-Is that shipped?

-We've got some shipping costs in there, as well.

0:53:140:53:17

What about distribution costs in the UK?

0:53:170:53:19

Coming from our warehouse to the customer has to be included in the overhead, as well.

0:53:190:53:24

-Right.

-So there is courier costs.

-So that, I would think, with a product like this,

0:53:240:53:28

-would easily account for at least £40,000.

-Yes.

0:53:280:53:33

Answer me this. How did you manage to get John Lewis to promote them,

0:53:330:53:40

to sell them in their stores?

0:53:400:53:43

I met the buyer at the Nuremberg Toy Fair.

0:53:430:53:46

They've just placed a nice order, their first order,

0:53:460:53:50

£35,000 worth for their autumn collection.

0:53:500:53:56

Er... We also talked to Harrods.

0:53:560:54:00

Why have you not done it with House of Fraser, Selfridges, Mothercare?

0:54:000:54:04

We will be approaching those, as well.

0:54:040:54:07

Most of my customers are independent retailers.

0:54:070:54:09

But I'd have thought, with a product like this,

0:54:090:54:12

what you should've been aiming for, what your vision would've been was brand awareness.

0:54:120:54:17

Sure. That's probably why I need a friend to give me some guidance!

0:54:170:54:22

The confidence returns.

0:54:260:54:28

Has the West Country entrepreneur got his pitch back on track?

0:54:280:54:33

Duncan Bannatyne is now ready to show his hand.

0:54:330:54:37

Simon, I'm not going to be your best friend

0:54:400:54:43

and go out drinking with you every Friday night, erm,

0:54:430:54:46

and sit in an office with you,

0:54:460:54:49

but I quite like it, in actual fact, when...

0:54:490:54:53

..somebody hasn't got the costings quite right, because that's something I can add.

0:54:530:54:58

I can analyse exactly the costs.

0:54:580:55:01

Because I like the product so much, I'm going to make you an offer.

0:55:030:55:07

I'm actually going to make you two offers.

0:55:070:55:10

I'll offer you the full amount you're asking for, £75,000,

0:55:100:55:15

-but I want for that 30 percent of the company.

-OK.

0:55:150:55:19

I'll make you a second offer. I'm going to offer half the money,

0:55:190:55:22

that's £37,500, for 15 percent.

0:55:220:55:26

-With the second offer, you could get another Dragon to come in.

-OK.

0:55:260:55:30

-With the first offer, you can just accept me.

-Thank you very much.

0:55:300:55:34

At last, Simon has received an offer of the £75,000 he needs

0:55:370:55:43

but at a level of equity three times the amount he initially intended to give away.

0:55:430:55:48

Will Hilary Devey now choose to undercut her rival's offer,

0:55:480:55:52

join forces with him or walk away from the deal altogether?

0:55:520:55:57

OK, Simon...

0:56:000:56:02

I also think it's a good product and I can see mileage in it.

0:56:030:56:07

I can also help with my own marketing team and my own IT team.

0:56:070:56:12

What I've also got is a logistics company throughout Europe to ship it

0:56:120:56:17

-for a lot less than what you would pay.

-Of course.

0:56:170:56:21

So I would like to offer you half the money

0:56:220:56:26

for 15 percent.

0:56:260:56:30

Thank you very much.

0:56:320:56:34

Well, thank you all very much.

0:56:370:56:40

I've learnt an incredible amount about the fact that I don't know

0:56:400:56:44

as much as I thought I knew about my business.

0:56:440:56:47

And there's a lot more to learn.

0:56:470:56:50

I really do need some friends

0:56:510:56:54

and it would be good to have two friends.

0:56:540:56:57

-What I'd like to do is accept your offer.

-Well done, Simon. Very good move.

0:56:570:57:03

Thanks very much.

0:57:050:57:07

Simon's done it. It wasn't a smooth ride,

0:57:070:57:10

but for two of the Dragons, the potential outweighed the risk.

0:57:100:57:16

Simon, did you think at the end that you would walk away with the investment?

0:57:190:57:23

Once I started getting a grilling,

0:57:230:57:25

especially when Deborah started getting into the numbers, I felt like I didn't have a clue!

0:57:250:57:30

It was established that I was looking for not only an investment,

0:57:300:57:34

I was looking for friends.

0:57:340:57:37

So Duncan and Hilary became my rich friends, if you like!

0:57:370:57:41

A dramatic end to the day.

0:57:490:57:52

It's important to get the numbers right in the Den, not just to impress the Dragons,

0:57:520:57:57

but because if you understand the figures, you usually understand the business.

0:57:570:58:01

Simon Booth was lucky to have two allies in Hilary Devey and Duncan Bannatyne

0:58:010:58:05

who helped him find clarity where there was confusion.

0:58:050:58:09

If you'd like to know why the Dragons invested in Simon,

0:58:090:58:12

press the red button now.

0:58:120:58:14

You can also apply to the programme if you think you have what it takes to face the multi-millionaires.

0:58:140:58:20

Just visit bbc.co.uk/dragonsden. Goodbye.

0:58:200:58:25

Next time on Dragons' Den...

0:58:260:58:29

-Where's your company based?

-At my home.

-So, your bedroom?

0:58:290:58:32

Basically, yes!

0:58:320:58:34

-I'm not finished.

-Neither was I, but go ahead.

0:58:340:58:37

I was talking.

0:58:370:58:38

-You're just too confusing.

-I know.

0:58:380:58:42

I don't want to invest in the world's most expensive beehive.

0:58:420:58:46

Frankly, the beast doesn't change. When that beast is hungry, it wants feeding.

0:58:460:58:52

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0:58:520:58:56

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0:58:560:59:00

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