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These are the Dragons, | 0:00:25 | 0:00:27 | |
five of Britain's wealthiest and most enterprising business leaders. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
Over the coming weeks, they'll make or break the dreams | 0:00:31 | 0:00:35 | |
of dozens of budding entrepreneurs. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:39 | |
Can I speak my mind? I think you've been so stupid. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
I wish you the best of luck, | 0:00:44 | 0:00:45 | |
but as investor, I think I'd lose my shirt. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
The maximum you've made is £13,000. | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
How am I ever going to see any of my £50,000? | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
I consider this quite a punt, but I am going to make you an offer. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
Weakey, weakey, weakey, weakey, whoo! | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
The multi-millionaire investors have each built up their fortunes from scratch. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:12 | |
Hotel and health club owner, Duncan Bannatyne. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:17 | |
Leisure industry expert, Deborah Meaden. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
Retail magnate, Theo Paphitis. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:24 | |
Telecoms giant, Peter Jones. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
And Hilary Devey, who made her millions in the haulage industry. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:33 | |
The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment and the cash ready to invest, | 0:01:34 | 0:01:39 | |
but only in the right business. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
walk away with their money? | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
Welcome to Dragons' Den. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
In difficult times, more and more people are turning to business | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
as a way of earning a living. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:02 | |
The Den is the forum where deals are done | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
and entrepreneurs secure the investment they so desperately need. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
But only if they can persuade any of our Dragons | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
to part with their cash. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
Pitching in the Den can change lives, | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
but only if investment is secured. | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
Let's see how our first entrepreneurs get on. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
Hello, Dragons. My name's Nick. This is Richard and Sebastian. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:46 | |
We're looking for £50,000 in exchange for 15 percent of our business. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:51 | |
Bar Mate, like some good ideas, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
is the result of an evening in the pub in my student days. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:58 | |
It was four-deep at the bar and I wondered, "Why does it take so long to get served?" | 0:02:58 | 0:03:03 | |
I watched the bar staff and I realised that they spend most of their time holding the glass. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:08 | |
I thought there was a huge efficiency gap there. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
If we designed something to hold the glass for them, | 0:03:11 | 0:03:15 | |
that would free up their time so they could do other things. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
I got in touch with Seb, a product designer, | 0:03:19 | 0:03:22 | |
and he'll explain where we are now. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
You take the pint glass, you lift up the tap, put the glass in. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
I can then go and take payment, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
and come back and the glass has taken care of itself and poured it to a predetermined level. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
I can come back and simply top it up. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
Our market is pubs, but in particular managed pubs, of which there are 9,000 in the UK. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:44 | |
Each will typically have between ten and 20 taps that this is suitable for. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:49 | |
That means a market between 90 and 180,000 units. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
Thank you for listening to us. We're happy to answer any questions. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
Penetrating a market as established as the pub trade is a tough ask, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
even with the most innovative of inventions. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
But that's what assured trio Nick, Richard and Sebastian believe they can do. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:15 | |
In return for 15 percent of their company, | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
they need £50,000 to take their prototype automated bar tap into production. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:23 | |
Peter Jones is first to scrutinise the opportunity on offer. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
Guys, hi, I'm Peter. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
Before I start talking about that product, I want to talk about you. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
-A product designer by trade. -That's right. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
-Richard, what do you do? -I used to work in investment | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
and for the last five years I ran a biotech company, up to the end of last year. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
-And Nick? -I'm an architect. I've got a small practice of four people in Central London. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:51 | |
OK. When I look at the product, | 0:04:51 | 0:04:54 | |
I mean, I've worked in a bar, what you tend to see with barmen, | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
they put the glass down, pull the tap and get other drinks. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
They keep an eye on it, flick the tap and come back to it. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:04 | |
They're multi-tasking anyway. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
So, how can you convince me that somebody's going to replace an existing tap? | 0:05:07 | 0:05:13 | |
The current system of trying to manage that without having flat beer, | 0:05:13 | 0:05:18 | |
because if you pour into the glass from a height, it foams everywhere, | 0:05:18 | 0:05:23 | |
so what they currently do is raise the glass to the correct height. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
Typically, they take a pint glass, reverse it and stick another on top, | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
-which isn't a realistic solution. -Right. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
And what do you think you'll be able to sell that for? | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
We plan to sell it for a unit price of £90. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
We think it'll take about two months to recoup its costs for the pubs. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:43 | |
We've been to Wetherspoons and their biggest complaint is customer waiting time, | 0:05:43 | 0:05:48 | |
and they're interested in this. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:50 | |
-They'd spend £90? -They're already spending | 0:05:50 | 0:05:52 | |
-between £30 and £70 on a normal tap, anyway. -OK. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:56 | |
It's early days for the business, | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
but such interest from a major chain of pubs | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
is bound to be of interest to an investor. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
Former football club chairman Theo Paphitis | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
is next to question the confident trio. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
Guys, hello, I'm Theo. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
I've had to manage a business where you only had a very short window | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
to get all your customers through, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
half time, just before the game, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:29 | |
and the biggest problem was speed of delivery of the beer. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:34 | |
Now, really, how much time are you saving? | 0:06:34 | 0:06:37 | |
If you look at managed pubs, when you have very busy times, you might have four deep at the bar, | 0:06:37 | 0:06:42 | |
someone walks up and asks for five pints of lager, | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
they hold the first pint, they put it down, | 0:06:45 | 0:06:48 | |
they hold the second... This is a long process. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
It takes, on average, 19 seconds to pour a pint. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
That's minutes. It frees the barman up to do other things. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:59 | |
Nick, Richard, Sebastian, hi, I'm Deborah. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:01 | |
This £90, how far have you got with establishing how that would be made, the material it would be made in? | 0:07:01 | 0:07:07 | |
We've a complete quote for its manufacture | 0:07:07 | 0:07:09 | |
and we've made allowances for the cost of shipping, VAT. | 0:07:09 | 0:07:14 | |
And of the £90, there's also a cut for distribution. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
We've worked out that gives us a good gross profit. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
What are they going to cost you to make? | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
We'd have a gross profit of 75 percent on the £90. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
-Sorry? -We'd have a gross profit of 75 percent on the £90. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:31 | |
Poised responses and a potentially profitable product, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
the entrepreneurs are putting on a good performance in the Den. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
But Hilary Devey looks to have something on her mind. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
Guys, I've been in and out of pubs all my life, | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
and I was pulling pints, | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
illegally, from the age of six, seven years of age! | 0:07:54 | 0:07:57 | |
To be honest, if I'd got bar staff that couldn't add up the order in their head, | 0:07:57 | 0:08:03 | |
open a bottle, put it on the counter, | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
pour a spirit or a glass of wine and then deliver the pint, | 0:08:06 | 0:08:11 | |
frankly, I'd think they were badly trained bar staff. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:15 | |
I've got to say, I'm out. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
It's a first blow for the trio. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
Will Duncan Bannatyne agree with his rival's concerns? | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
I think you guys are great and I'd love to invest with you, | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
but if this really does work, | 0:08:36 | 0:08:38 | |
all you need is to get one of the big brewery chains involved, work with them, | 0:08:38 | 0:08:42 | |
giving them first advantage where they get the first order | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
or give them a licence, I'm sure they'll snap your hand off. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
But it's not for me and for that reason, I'm out. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
Thank you. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
Guys, I think it's a great, inventive product. | 0:08:54 | 0:08:57 | |
I think it's nicely designed. | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
I'm concerned about the cost. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
I think that when you go into negotiations to replace the taps, | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
you'll end up almost having to give it away at cost. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
I'm going to decline the investment because of the margin pressure I think it will come under | 0:09:08 | 0:09:14 | |
when you try to put it into the market. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
I wish you the best of luck, but I'm going to say I'm out. | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
Two more Dragons out. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
Can leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
find a reason to invest? | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
One of the issues with speed pouring is, you get an awful lot of wastage. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
-How does this affect that? -You don't have wastage because you set the level the pint stops at. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:43 | |
So if you happen to have a barrel at a slightly different pressure | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
and you find it's frothing over, you can adjust it. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
Where do you adjust that? | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
It's a simple ring to adjust the pressure that it comes out at. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
-Have you got a patent? -We do. -Patent granted. -Yes. -For what? | 0:09:55 | 0:10:01 | |
It's a UK patent and it covers the notion of a device | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
which holds a glass at an angle, which declines as you fill it, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:09 | |
and activates a valve to stop the filling. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
-And who owns the patent? -I do. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
-And would you be prepared to transfer that into the company? -Yes. | 0:10:15 | 0:10:20 | |
Guys, has anybody said | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
they will give you an order if this works? | 0:10:24 | 0:10:26 | |
We have a pub chain who's willing to trial it. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
-How many? -There's 15 pubs. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
Obviously, they'd start with a smaller number to test it, | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
and roll it out if it was successful. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:37 | |
Wetherspoons said they would trial it in their headquarters on site. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:41 | |
Listen, I think it's, erm... | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
It's a good idea and I could see the minute you showed it, | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
I could see how it would work with the weight and everything else. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
Erm... I'm going to make you an offer. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
The full money, but I'd want 25 percent. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
At last, Nick, Richard and Sebastian have the offer they came in for, | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
but for nearly twice as much as they initially wanted to give away. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
With one Dragon remaining, | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
will they be able to negotiate themselves a better deal? | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
I consider this quite a punt. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
It's early. You take it out there and somebody says, | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
"We've got one of these that does that." | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
But I am going to make you an offer. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
I'm going to make you an offer for half of the money, | 0:11:52 | 0:11:55 | |
actually on the same terms that Theo was talking about. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
So we've now got two decisions to be made. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
Does the Dragon to my right, would he consider taking a partner? | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
And would you consider taking that offer? | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
We'd quite like to go into a huddle and talk about the offer. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
Thank you. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
It's an unusual occurrence in the Den. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:21 | |
The entrepreneurs still only have one full offer on the table for 25 percent. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:27 | |
THEY WHISPER | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
Will they choose Theo Paphitis on his own, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:35 | |
try and convince him to partner with Deborah, | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
or will they choose to go with no Dragons at all? | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
(My legs hurt!) | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
Er... If you were to share your investment with Deborah, | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
so that there's less capital at risk for either of you, | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
we would like to suggest that you both invested £25,000 each for 10 percent each, | 0:12:56 | 0:13:01 | |
so overall, 20 percent rather than 25 percent. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:05 | |
That's really good logic, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
but it's such a small percentage to have. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
My logic says, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
if you've got two Dragons, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
especially with Deborah's experience in pubs, clubs and marketing, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:23 | |
maybe the right figure should be 30 percent... | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
..so we've got 15 percent each. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
Think about that. If you've got two Dragons, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
what that gives you is a lot more firepower. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:42 | |
Deborah, how would you feel about that? | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
Absolutely. I'd be happy with that. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:50 | |
-I preferred our huddle! -You preferred...! -It was nicer. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
Is your original offer still on the table? | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
-Yes. -Thank you very much. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
(They could come down with the equity because they're sharing the risk.) | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
-(I think we should take it.) -(Which one?) | 0:14:11 | 0:14:15 | |
THEY WHISPER INAUDIBLY | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
(We didn't come just for the money.) | 0:14:19 | 0:14:22 | |
We would like to take the offer of 30 percent, split between Theo and Deborah. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:32 | |
-We didn't come just for the money. -Fabulous! -Excellent! | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
Well done, fella. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
-Thank you. -We didn't want to be home-wreckers! | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
Nick, Richard and Sebastian have done it. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
For 30 percent of their business, they've gained £50,000 | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
and two multi-millionaire business partners. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
It seemed counter-intuitive to give away more, | 0:14:54 | 0:14:56 | |
but we got two Dragons and that's got to be better than one! | 0:14:56 | 0:15:00 | |
I think we might go for a drink! | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
-Then Seb's got to make the production version. -I have. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
Incorporate a company for the five of us. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
There's five in this marriage! | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
Many entrepreneurs believe the key to success in the Den | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
is to get the Dragons to experience at firsthand their business, service or product. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:24 | |
This was true of Jacqui Thompson from Lincolnshire, | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
who wanted a £50,000 investment | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
in her police-themed educational workshops. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
Pulse was created in 2008 | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
as a way to engage children into liking science in a fun way. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:42 | |
What I would like to do is to take you into my world of CSI. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:47 | |
With all five Dragons turning into crime-scene investigators... | 0:15:47 | 0:15:51 | |
Heads up! | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
..the Den found itself embroiled in a different kind of enquiry. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
This is our crime scene. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
What we've got is, a fatality has happened in the Den. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:05 | |
Duh, duh, duhh! | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
It looks like somebody had an ice cream, whilst the attacker had a cigarette. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
They tried to rob them of their CD information. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
They missed the £10, but hit them over the head with a bottle. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
THEO: Who sells ice cream? | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
Or who sold ice cream? | 0:16:21 | 0:16:22 | |
-Upon initial inspection... -Got prints. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
..Theo Paphitis applauded Jacqui's business concept. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
I think the theory of it is excellent. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:33 | |
Teaching kids to learn through things that they're interested in, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
as opposed to sitting in class, would've done me the world of good at school. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
But problems soon arose | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
as the Dragons forensically examined the business model. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
-Can I ask what you charge for this? -Based on a year group of about 120, | 0:16:48 | 0:16:53 | |
it works out at 1,495. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
Can you talk me through the mechanics, | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
what turnover you're expecting? | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
Er... First year, | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
I turned over £16,000. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
Last year, £34,000 | 0:17:05 | 0:17:07 | |
with a net profit of £13,000. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:10 | |
The maximum you made is £13,000. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
How am I ever going to see any of my £50,000 back? | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
It's not a scalable business at all. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
It's wholly dependent on yourself, and if you get knocked down by that proverbial bus tomorrow, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
bang goes our investment. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
I'm out. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:30 | |
The Dragons have been asked to invest in some very large products in the past, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:38 | |
but Bola Lafe, who was a finance manager for a global bank, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
is offering up one of the smallest. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
Of course, as long as the profits are big enough, the Dragons won't mind. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:48 | |
Hello, I'm Bola Lafe, managing director of Opus Innovations Ltd. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
I'm the inventor of the Cleebo baby and kids nasal mucus tweezers. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:27 | |
I'm here to ask for £50,000 in exchange for 10 percent of the business. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:33 | |
The pitch won't be based on the tweezers, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:36 | |
although I have another number of products, | 0:18:36 | 0:18:40 | |
but the first thing is the tweezers. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
We've got two children. When the first was about four months old, | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
she often had a blocked nose and an uneasy time at night trying to breathe. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:50 | |
We were paranoid about putting her to bed. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
Children and small babies cannot blow their noses, as we all know, | 0:18:53 | 0:18:57 | |
and these are a way of removing the solid and semi-solid mucus. | 0:18:57 | 0:19:02 | |
Once it's blocked, a lot of parents, and I know most of you are parents, | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
they actually stick dangerous implements up their noses. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
To demonstrate them... | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
And because of the shape of them, you can't go up too far. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
The main thing with these is safety. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:22 | |
Our plan is to make this global | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
and make sure every parent with a small child | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
has a pair of Cleebo tweezers in the changing bag | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
or in the bathroom cabinet. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
Thank you. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:35 | |
Big aspirations from father-of-two Bola Lafe, from Kent. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:43 | |
-Can I see those tweezers? -Sure. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
He needs £50,000 to establish his range of baby accessories | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
and is willing to part with 10 percent of his new company. | 0:19:50 | 0:19:54 | |
Collectively, the Dragons have 17 children. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
What will Theo Paphitis make of Bola's invention? | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
-Bola, hello. -Hi, Theo. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
OK, I've got five kids | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
and I'm sure we've all nursed a child that's been poorly and has had a blocked nose. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:12 | |
-Yes. -So, what have we done | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
to clear that congestion? | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
The top five things, and we surveyed 2,000 parents, | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
the first thing they did was fingernails. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
They just used that. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:25 | |
The second thing was cotton buds. If you slip, that goes straight up the nose. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
The third thing, believe it or not, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
-people use metal tweezers, which is what prompted this. -Never! | 0:20:33 | 0:20:38 | |
I have seen the fingernail. Do you know what? I think it's safe. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:43 | |
-Fingernail was number one. -A mother's fingernail just seems to manage. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
I've seen them do it so many times. I can't do it. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
Women just do it with their finger. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:53 | |
The problem is, their nasal lining is very thin. That's why we've got the doctors involved - | 0:20:53 | 0:20:58 | |
A fingernail doesn't really go up. The snot is there | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
and you just go "weakey, weakey, weakey, weakey, whoo!" | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
A rather un-Dragon-like response perhaps, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
but at least the multi-millionaires are engaging with the problem at hand. | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
Can Peter Jones bring a little order back to proceedings? | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
Bola, I'm praying that you've got something else, apart from bogey tweezers. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:26 | |
I'll show you the others. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:28 | |
These products haven't been commercialised yet. These are concepts and prototypes. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
This first product here... | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
..is our take on the new wet-wipe holders. | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
Babies move around a lot, they need distracting, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
so the different components come off. That could be a rattle. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
-Wet wipes in the middle. -Got it. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
This one is a game that doubles up as a learning aid. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
The idea is that, once you've studied the pack, you can take a card away | 0:21:54 | 0:21:58 | |
and whoever's playing has time to guess what card's gone. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
-Do you have any products that you currently sell? The tweezers? -Yes. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:08 | |
-What price do you sell them for? -£5.99. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:11 | |
-What's your revenue since you started? -About £8,000. -And your profit? | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
The profit, er, year one | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
would be an 80,000 loss. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
OK. So, you've tested the concept and you've sold £8,000? | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
-Is that why you've gone to other products? -Not at all. I've not been focused full time. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:29 | |
I've been doing it in my spare time. | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
-You've had a job up until now. -Yes. -What was the day job? | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
I was a managing director at one of the global investment banks. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:40 | |
-Which bank? -Citibank. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
-Managing director at Citibank? -Expense management. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
-Expense management. -For Europe and Asia, so I ran two regions. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:48 | |
-How many people reported to you? -About 50. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
Any thoughts of baby talk are long gone | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
as Bola's impressive credentials come to the fore. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
Deborah Meaden is next to interrogate the former banker. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:06 | |
How much money have you put into this business? | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
-With everything, just over 200,000. -Oh, my God. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
OK. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:17 | |
-So, is that 200,000 already spent? -It is, yes. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
When you put your £200,000 in, what was your business plan? | 0:23:21 | 0:23:26 | |
When did you think you were going to get cash back from that? | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
We saw that as being from about the fourth year. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
We're looking at numbers of 1.4 million. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
And after that, the following year, 3.5. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
Sorry. In four years, you're going to be making 1.4 million profit? | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
Yes. Because we've based this on kind of global numbers. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
OK. Erm... You've already spent 200,000. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
-Yes. -How much more money are you going to have to spend before you get into profit? | 0:23:51 | 0:23:56 | |
About 100,000. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
-But we're still trying to get the word out there. -Bola, Bola, I've made my mind up. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:04 | |
I cannot imagine that you are ever going to see | 0:24:04 | 0:24:10 | |
any part of your £200,000 recouped | 0:24:10 | 0:24:13 | |
through one very small product. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
-And the trouble is, your follow-up products, I don't think, are very good. -OK. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:21 | |
I think you've been pretty foolhardy with your 200,000. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:26 | |
Right. OK. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:27 | |
I'm out. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
A frank exchange and an early loss. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:34 | |
Bola's contrasting revelations | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
are eliciting strong responses from the Dragons. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:40 | |
Will Hilary Devey see an opportunity to invest? | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
Bola, you're obviously a family man, you obviously love your children, | 0:24:45 | 0:24:50 | |
but why would you give up a job as managing director to pursue that? | 0:24:50 | 0:24:56 | |
I'm passionate about it. I made sure the family is protected for the next two years | 0:24:56 | 0:25:01 | |
while we explore these products. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
And at the end of the day, if this doesn't work, I've got the ability to go back to the City. | 0:25:04 | 0:25:09 | |
I think people are underestimating the problem. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
-I don't blame you for - -Well, no, I am a mother | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
and I brought my own child up and... | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
We've done the research. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
Like we've all said, you'd use your finger or a tissue. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:23 | |
-Doctors recommend not to use a finger. -He's now 25 years of age | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
and a big handsome lad! | 0:25:27 | 0:25:29 | |
I do respect people's views, but the experts have looked at it | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
and they have a different view because they see what goes on in the real world. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:38 | |
You may have different views on this, but I'll prove you wrong. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
No question about it on this, because we know this is a problem. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
I've never failed at anything I've done. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
I would not give up my career to fail at this. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:52 | |
I wouldn't waste anyone's money if you decided to invest. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
What you're getting is... I will make it work. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:59 | |
Erm... It's just... It's who I am. | 0:25:59 | 0:26:03 | |
A valiant plea from the assured entrepreneur. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:10 | |
But will it be enough to salvage his dreams of investment? | 0:26:10 | 0:26:14 | |
Duncan Bannatyne is now ready to have his say. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
OK, Bola, I would never, ever recommend | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
anyone use conventional tweezers or hair pins, | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
but I have seen parents using fingernails, cotton buds and twisted tissue. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:32 | |
Whether or not these things are right to use, I don't know, | 0:26:32 | 0:26:37 | |
but I would rather use any of these three things than use this. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
-But why would - -Nothing you have there is new or innovative or can't be copied. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:47 | |
So for that reason, I have to say where I am and that is out. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
OK. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
Bola, the business, | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
as much as I know you're hoping on the next innovation, and there's nothing wrong with hoping, | 0:26:54 | 0:26:59 | |
I don't see anything here. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
I wish you the best of luck on your journey, | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
but as an investor, I think I'd lose my shirt. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
-I'm out. -OK. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:12 | |
Two more Dragons walk away from the deal | 0:27:15 | 0:27:17 | |
and Bola's initial confidence is starting to wane. | 0:27:17 | 0:27:21 | |
And it doesn't look as though Hilary Devey | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
is about to change his fortunes either. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
I don't think I can invest my money in this. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:31 | |
I don't believe I'd get my money back. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
And I think you will end up back in the City. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:37 | |
So I wish you all the luck in the world, | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
but I'm out. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
Bola, I've been listening because you've got such a credible background, | 0:27:44 | 0:27:49 | |
you're incredibly well presented, you're articulate. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:54 | |
Now, you've got a product there, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:58 | |
is it a horrendous product that's never going to sell? | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
Actually, I don't think it is. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
You'll sell some. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:07 | |
Not enough to pay me back my 50 grand, that's for certain. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
So for that reason, I'm going to say to you that I'm out. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:14 | |
OK. | 0:28:14 | 0:28:17 | |
Pitching to the Dragons can be a chastening experience | 0:28:18 | 0:28:22 | |
for even the most impressive of entrepreneurs. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
Bola leaves with nothing. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
Many businessmen and women who enter the Den | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
start off their entrepreneurial journey | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
while still holding down a day job. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
This was true of serving officer in the airborne infantry Paul Blair... | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
He's lovely! | 0:28:47 | 0:28:49 | |
..who needed £80,000 for his canine safety accessory. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:54 | |
When I was taking my dog for a walk, I threw a stick for him to chase | 0:28:54 | 0:28:58 | |
and as it was tumbling, he ran onto it and injured his mouth. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
After seeing a gap in the market, I created Safestix. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:06 | |
Having recently completed a charity skydive, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
Duncan was more interested in Paul's other occupation. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:13 | |
-Where are you serving? -In the Parachute Regiment. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
-The Parachute Regiment. -Yes. -Where? -Netheravon. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
-Are you? -Yes. -Did I meet you when I sky-jumped? -No. I made a point to avoid you. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:26 | |
But the Dragons weren't so impressed by the details of his business. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:32 | |
-How much have you invested in this? -To date, £46,000. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
Wow. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:38 | |
-Can I speak my mind? -Please do. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:40 | |
I think you've been so stupid. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
I don't really think you need investment. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
Why not go back to the manufacturers, | 0:29:46 | 0:29:49 | |
say, "You manufacture it", | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
let them sell them to retailers, and then take your royalties? | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
OK, they'll then get a mark-up. | 0:29:55 | 0:29:57 | |
However, Paul did achieve one thing in the Den, | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
and that was to divide the Dragons about the best way forward for his business. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
So Paul rings him and says, | 0:30:05 | 0:30:07 | |
"I want you to make more of these things, but I'm not going to pay you. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:12 | |
"I want you to sell them and send me some money." | 0:30:12 | 0:30:17 | |
-Is that what you're telling Paul to do? -That'd be great if it works. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
-That's a fantastic model! -OK. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:22 | |
I totally disagree with Hilary's comment that what you've done is stupid. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:28 | |
The reason I want to make that clear is because you might be packing my parachute! | 0:30:28 | 0:30:34 | |
Get that in now! | 0:30:34 | 0:30:36 | |
It's not an investable business because it's never going to make enough money. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
I'm out. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:42 | |
So far tonight, only one business has secured an investment offer from the Dragons. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:49 | |
Fabulous! | 0:30:49 | 0:30:50 | |
If you'd like to hear from Theo and Deborah | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
about why they chose to invest in the entrepreneurial trio... | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
-We didn't want to be home-wreckers! -..press the red button at the end of the programme. | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
It's never too late to pursue a business idea. | 0:31:03 | 0:31:06 | |
Our next entrepreneur is developing a concept that she first had in the 1960s. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:11 | |
71-year-old inventor Wendy Thompson, from the Isle of Wight, | 0:31:11 | 0:31:15 | |
hopes the Dragons will think it's worth the wait. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:18 | |
Hello. My name's Wendy Thompson. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
I'd like to offer you 40 percent of my business | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
in return for £50,000. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
Erm... Many years ago, when I was in my early 20s, | 0:31:48 | 0:31:53 | |
I specialised in the treatment of children. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:57 | |
I couldn't get the equipment I needed to, er, augment my treatment. | 0:31:57 | 0:32:02 | |
So I invented some. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
But there was one piece of equipment that I never designed and developed, | 0:32:05 | 0:32:09 | |
the Health Swing. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
The Ancient Greeks got there first | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
because they used to use swinging as a magical transformational activity. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:20 | |
So with the Health Swing, you've got the ancient but with a modern twist. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:25 | |
Coming fast-forward to about 15 months ago, | 0:32:25 | 0:32:30 | |
my husband had a stroke | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
and we both had to adjust. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
And I thought, "Right, I'd better sell my cattle." | 0:32:36 | 0:32:41 | |
I had two lovely herds of cattle. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
And then I thought I wanted to use the money in designing the swing. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:51 | |
It's a progressive, whole body exerciser. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:55 | |
It strengthens and it mobilises. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:58 | |
I'd just like to demonstrate the swing now. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:02 | |
It is only a prototype. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
Elizabeth is going to demonstrate it without any resistance. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:12 | |
Right, now, I'm going to... THEY LAUGH | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
I'm going to put up the resistance. Er... | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
Right, off you go. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:22 | |
I've put the resistance up quite a lot, so she's having to work at it. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:27 | |
She's burning up more calories, | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
she's using her cardiovascular system, | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
her respiratory system, as well. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:37 | |
Thank you. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:41 | |
After nearly 50 years with it on the drawing board, | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
physiotherapist and lecturer Wendy Thompson | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
believes the time is right to launch her new therapeutic rehabilitation swing. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:54 | |
She needs £50,000. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
It seems to have brought back memories for one Dragon. | 0:33:56 | 0:34:01 | |
-Hello. I'm Theo. -Hello, Theo. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:04 | |
As a kid, I used to always like to be on a swing. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:08 | |
-Yes. -OK? And it really is therapeutic. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
But the minute you put the resistance up, it became a workout. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:16 | |
And do you know what? | 0:34:16 | 0:34:18 | |
It didn't look very nice. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
Well, I'm sorry you didn't like it, but you don't have to have it as an exercise machine. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:27 | |
You can just get on it and go. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:29 | |
I've been to gyms... You see, in our world, | 0:34:29 | 0:34:33 | |
not everybody can go to the gym. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
If they had this in their home, they can watch TV, | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
they can actually increase their blood supply. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:42 | |
I know! But we're going to get it down! | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
This was just made to prove the concept. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
Could it be adjusted to hang from a ceiling or a door frame? | 0:34:48 | 0:34:54 | |
-Yes. This was just made for the prototype. -OK. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
Authoritative responses from the likeable entrepreneur. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:05 | |
So what of her background? Peter Jones wants to know. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:10 | |
Wendy, you mentioned caring, you've done amazing things, but have you ever set a business up? | 0:35:11 | 0:35:17 | |
I was born on a farm and, you know, farming is business. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:23 | |
I worked before I went to school, milked a cow, that sort of thing. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
So that really, I suppose, | 0:35:27 | 0:35:29 | |
was where I became resilient and I'd sort of solve things. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:34 | |
Then, er, then I had a career in chartered physiotherapy. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:40 | |
Then I took a degree in rehabilitation at Southampton, which was research. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:46 | |
But it's not until now that I've been able to say, | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
"Right, this is what I'd like to do more of." | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
-Wendy. -Yes? | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
-How much is it? -What I thought was, there's three markets, | 0:35:56 | 0:35:59 | |
a home market, the gym market and the rehabilitation. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:04 | |
-The home market is perhaps the most valuable. -Yes. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
So I'd have a small version made for the home. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:11 | |
-How much would it cost? -That would be retailing at £500. -OK. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:16 | |
Tell me about the people who can't get the gym. Who are they? | 0:36:16 | 0:36:20 | |
Well, just take my bank manager. He comes back home - | 0:36:20 | 0:36:25 | |
Why can't he drive to the gym and walk in the front door? | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
Because actually, there's not too many gyms on the Isle of Wight, which is where I come from. | 0:36:29 | 0:36:34 | |
-You live on the Isle of Wight? -I do. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:36 | |
-Have you not got a gym there? -No, I haven't, no. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:40 | |
-OK, let's put the Isle of Wight to one side. -OK. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:45 | |
Because you said that you'd been to gyms. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
Which gym have you been to with this that said they would buy one? | 0:36:48 | 0:36:54 | |
Freshwater. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:55 | |
Never heard of it. Where is that? | 0:36:55 | 0:36:57 | |
-On the Isle of Wight. -OK. | 0:36:57 | 0:36:59 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
-Wendy...! -HILARY LAUGHS | 0:37:01 | 0:37:04 | |
-Wendy. -But actually - | 0:37:04 | 0:37:08 | |
-Can I get back to why you came in here? -Yes. -OK. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
-Wendy... -HILARY LAUGHS | 0:37:11 | 0:37:15 | |
Do you know my Auntie Joyce on the Isle of Wight? | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
THEY LAUGH LOUDLY | 0:37:18 | 0:37:20 | |
The Dragons are clearly beguiled by Wendy | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
and the atmosphere is far from Den-like. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
But Hilary Devey wants to bring it back to business. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:34 | |
Wendy, hi. I'm Hilary. | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
Erm... Have you spoke to | 0:37:39 | 0:37:42 | |
neurologists and neuro physios about this product? | 0:37:42 | 0:37:46 | |
-No. -Why? -Because, to be honest, Hilary, I don't really need to, | 0:37:46 | 0:37:51 | |
-because I'm the one - -Yes, you do. -Right. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
-A few years ago, I had a stroke. -Did you? -Quite a serious stroke. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:59 | |
-Yes. -I couldn't even spell the word "the". | 0:37:59 | 0:38:01 | |
I went from running a £100 million- turnover business one day | 0:38:01 | 0:38:06 | |
-to not even being able to put pyjamas on the next. -That's terrible. | 0:38:06 | 0:38:11 | |
And at the time, they didn't have the right equipment in the hospital | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
to give me the right physio for the type of stroke that I had, | 0:38:16 | 0:38:20 | |
and I ended up with a paralysed hand, arm and leg. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
And to this day, I'm still experiencing that. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
-Right. -Because there is definitely a shortage of this equipment. -Yes. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
Both in the private sector and the NHS. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
So if it works and you've got neurologists on side to say it works for post-stroke victims, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:42 | |
I definitely think you have a market in the health sector. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
Hilary, I know I've got a market. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
A candid exchange | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
and one that ends with a passionate defence of her product. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
Now, will Deborah Meaden be tempted to invest in Wendy? | 0:38:57 | 0:39:02 | |
In terms of the market, | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
have you talked to anybody at all about supplying these to them? | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
No, I haven't. I need some money to put it to production design. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
I guess what I'm looking for here is some indication | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
of anybody you would supply it to being interested in buying it. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:24 | |
I actually went on a cruise, | 0:39:24 | 0:39:27 | |
and so I have spoken to other therapists and sort of said, | 0:39:27 | 0:39:32 | |
"What would your reaction be to this sort of equipment?" | 0:39:32 | 0:39:37 | |
OK. I'm going to be very short on my questioning. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
Before you go to all of that expense, | 0:39:41 | 0:39:43 | |
finalising it and then going to a market and the market saying, "No, not interested," | 0:39:43 | 0:39:49 | |
find somebody who thinks it's such a good solution to the problem | 0:39:49 | 0:39:55 | |
that they will either invest in you, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
or at very least say, "When it is produced, | 0:39:57 | 0:40:02 | |
"I'll buy one, preferably some." | 0:40:02 | 0:40:05 | |
I won't be investing. I'm out. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:08 | |
Thank you. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:10 | |
Heartfelt advice, but no cash. | 0:40:11 | 0:40:15 | |
Theo Paphitis looks to have made up his mind, too. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:19 | |
Wendy, you're fabulous, | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
but I don't actually think this is a money-making venture, and that's what I'm here to do. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:28 | |
I'm going to say to you thanks for giving us the opportunity, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
but it's not for me. I'm out. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:35 | |
Erm, it's not something that any gym owner | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
is going to buy and put in his health clubs or gyms, | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
because it doesn't add anything. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
So for that reason, I'm going to say where I am. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
-I'm out. -Thank you. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
Wendy, I don't see this product getting into the domestic home. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:56 | |
In terms of the swing, it's fantastic, but the swing has been around for a long time. | 0:40:56 | 0:41:01 | |
So I don't see that as a real scalable business opportunity | 0:41:01 | 0:41:05 | |
because I'm not convinced that people would want to buy one. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:10 | |
-I'm going to say I'm out. -Thank you. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:14 | |
Three Dragons out in quick succession. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
Now only Hilary Devey can rescue Wendy's investment dreams. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:25 | |
Wendy, because you're so lovely, | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
I'm tempted to say, "There's 50 grand." | 0:41:28 | 0:41:31 | |
But that would be my heart ruling my head. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
Commercially, that would be totally the wrong thing for me to do, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:39 | |
because 50 grand will go nowhere. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
I can't invest any money, | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
but what I will invest is time with The Stroke Association | 0:41:44 | 0:41:49 | |
and some top neuro physios that I know | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
to see whether or not they think there's an opening for this | 0:41:51 | 0:41:55 | |
in the private medical sector or in the NHS. | 0:41:55 | 0:41:59 | |
-I'm more than happy to spend time with you. -Thank you very much. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:04 | |
So, unfortunately, from a business perspective, I've got to say I'm out. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:09 | |
But the offer is there. Please do contact me. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
Thank you. Thank you all. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
Charmed as they were, none of the Dragons could find enough of a reason to invest. | 0:42:17 | 0:42:22 | |
Wendy leaves with nothing. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the Den | 0:42:32 | 0:42:36 | |
included Gareth and Brian Smith from Derbyshire, | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
with their low-fat snack company. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
Mature cheddar and spring onion. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:45 | |
They wanted £250,000 | 0:42:45 | 0:42:47 | |
and were offering just a ten-percent stake. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:51 | |
I'm here with Dad | 0:42:51 | 0:42:53 | |
to talk to you about our unique baked snack called Crips. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:58 | |
Brian revealed a credible past. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
I'm a consultant food technologist. I developed the sog-resistant crouton | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 | |
which goes into soups. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
But it was the current state of their business that concerned Theo. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:14 | |
-You've come in with a real racy valuation. -But pragmatic. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
It's only going to be pragmatic | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
if Gareth has got some incredible sales figures. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
Last year, we turned over £227,000. A net loss of £80,000. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:31 | |
The year before, as well, that was minus 93. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
-There was a year before that. -OK. -And we had a 165 net loss. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:39 | |
It was a disclosure that marked the end for the father and son's hopes of investment. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:45 | |
A company that loses money every year and has been valued at £2.5 million | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
is quite ridiculous. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
Not if you have the vision of a brand and a product which is unique. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
You have this vision? | 0:43:57 | 0:43:58 | |
I don't have the vision, and for that reason, I'm out. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:03 | |
Warrington-based Ian Wilson needed £50,000 | 0:44:04 | 0:44:08 | |
to launch his new greener bicycle accessory. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
Hello, Dragons. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:13 | |
I'm here today to show you my revolutionary product. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:18 | |
As the bicycle moves along, the airflow turns the fan. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:23 | |
I'd like to try it on the bike. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:25 | |
-Can you tell if this is working? -PETER: Faster! -It's working. | 0:44:26 | 0:44:32 | |
With proof of concept achieved, Deborah Meaden wanted proof of market potential. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:38 | |
What's the closest alternative? | 0:44:38 | 0:44:41 | |
There's solar ones, but they're quite expensive. They're about £80. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:45 | |
-And how much do you think yours would sell at? -About 25. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:49 | |
The pushbike has got lots of moving parts that you can harness. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:55 | |
There's other things that are out there that do the same job, | 0:44:55 | 0:44:59 | |
from solar, to dynamos, to batteries, | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
and they don't cost anything like this. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:06 | |
This is not an investable business. I'm out. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:10 | |
Thank you. | 0:45:10 | 0:45:11 | |
Motorbike enthusiast and former milkman | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
Simon Booth, from Somerset, is next into the Den. | 0:45:18 | 0:45:20 | |
He's one of the lucky entrepreneurs who's transformed a personal passion into a money-making business | 0:45:20 | 0:45:26 | |
and he hopes the Dragons will recognise its potential. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
Hello. My name's Simon Booth. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
I'm here today looking for £75,000 for 10 percent of my business. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:09 | |
Kiddimoto, since 2004 | 0:46:09 | 0:46:13 | |
is the award-winning designer, developer, distributor, manufacturer | 0:46:13 | 0:46:19 | |
of unique wooden balance bikes for two to five year olds. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:26 | |
Balance bikes are the perfect way | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
to start children onto cycling. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:33 | |
Customers include John Lewis, | 0:46:33 | 0:46:37 | |
Evans Cycles, Honda, Suzuki, | 0:46:37 | 0:46:42 | |
Triumph, to name but a few. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:44 | |
We project that sales revenues | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
will hit the £5 million mark in 2014. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:51 | |
Thank you. | 0:46:51 | 0:46:53 | |
Now Ruby's going to give you a demonstration. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:57 | |
Grand claims from Simon Booth, who's brought along his three-year-old daughter | 0:47:00 | 0:47:04 | |
to demonstrate his pedal-free children's balance bikes. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:08 | |
In return for a ten percent stake, | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
the Somerset entrepreneur needs £75,0000 to expand his company. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:16 | |
-Well done, Ruby. -DRAGONS: Bye-bye, Ruby! | 0:47:16 | 0:47:20 | |
Theo Paphitis looks impressed. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
-Simon. Hello, I'm Theo. -Hello, Theo. | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
-It looks a great product. -Thank you. -Looks a quality product. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
I just want some quick numbers so I can tune into what you do. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
It started at trade shows, or consumer shows, selling direct. | 0:47:38 | 0:47:43 | |
-It's the numbers I'm after. -We sold in the first year 300 units, and that was mostly direct. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:48 | |
-I'd go and knock on doors - -It's the numbers I'm after. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:52 | |
£30,000 first year. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
-Good. -£50,000. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:57 | |
£100... Er, £265,000. | 0:47:57 | 0:48:02 | |
Then it went up to... Er, last year it was 490. | 0:48:02 | 0:48:08 | |
-Do you make any profit? -Yes. -How much did you make last year? -£30,000. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:12 | |
-So, you made a clear profit of £30,000? -Yes. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
-How much do they cost to make? -£20. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:18 | |
-And you sell them to the retailer for how much? -For an average of £50. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:23 | |
-And they retail at what price? -About £100. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:27 | |
Impressed by the figures and impressed with the product, | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
Simon has made a good impression on the Dragons. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:36 | |
But Duncan Bannatyne looks distracted. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
Simon, I'm confused as to why the motorbike's here. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
Because that's where the initial idea came from. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:47 | |
These are replicas of motorcycles. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:49 | |
-But do you own it? -That's my bike, yes. -OK. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
Where did you say you're selling these? | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
Independently-owned bicycle shops, motorcycle shops, toy stores. | 0:48:56 | 0:49:01 | |
So this is what I would do if I was in your position. | 0:49:01 | 0:49:05 | |
I would sell my motorbike, borrow money on credit cards, | 0:49:05 | 0:49:10 | |
-and do everything I could to buy stock to keep 100 percent of my company. -OK. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:14 | |
-Why don't you do that? -The reason I've come to Dragons' Den | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
is really because it's not just the investment. | 0:49:17 | 0:49:21 | |
It would possibly be the help that comes with an investment, | 0:49:21 | 0:49:27 | |
that has got an incredible amount of business background and acumen | 0:49:27 | 0:49:32 | |
that I can bounce ideas. | 0:49:32 | 0:49:35 | |
-THEO: So, you've come in here to find a friend? -Kind of, I guess! | 0:49:35 | 0:49:39 | |
Give us a look at one. They look really good. | 0:49:39 | 0:49:43 | |
A heartfelt plea from the entrepreneur. | 0:49:45 | 0:49:49 | |
But how will he fair under the scrutiny of Deborah Meaden? | 0:49:49 | 0:49:54 | |
Erm, I've got to say, I think you've done really well. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:59 | |
-Thank you. -You've generated half a million pounds of turnover. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:02 | |
I sat up and listened then! And then I thought, "Ooh, that only translated to £30,000 profit." | 0:50:02 | 0:50:08 | |
-What's your take on that? -We just had a late delivery of stock, | 0:50:08 | 0:50:13 | |
so that went in the books as... | 0:50:13 | 0:50:15 | |
That doesn't affect your profit, because you paid, what, £100,000 for your stock, | 0:50:15 | 0:50:21 | |
-you've got £100,000 worth of stock, so that doesn't affect profit. -OK. -I'm purely focusing on profit. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:26 | |
I just want to understand why half a million | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
-turns to 30,000. -Yes. Sure. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:31 | |
-What are your overheads? Go through that. -OK. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
Key overheads will be exhibitions... | 0:50:35 | 0:50:38 | |
Put some numbers against those. How much do you spend on exhibitions? | 0:50:38 | 0:50:42 | |
-Exhibitions is in the region of 45 to 50,000. -OK. | 0:50:42 | 0:50:47 | |
-Wages and salaries? -I think £45,000. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
-OK, and what about your rent? -It's about £15,000, I guess. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:56 | |
At the moment, you've managed to explain 100,000 to me. | 0:50:56 | 0:50:59 | |
Right. | 0:50:59 | 0:51:01 | |
I must apologise, I can't pull those figures out of my head. | 0:51:01 | 0:51:05 | |
You need to! | 0:51:05 | 0:51:07 | |
-Do you know how important this is? -Sure. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
This is the whole business model. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
You've explained half of your costs, | 0:51:13 | 0:51:17 | |
-and half you're really struggling to explain. -Sure. | 0:51:17 | 0:51:20 | |
Which... | 0:51:20 | 0:51:22 | |
It doesn't sound good, does it, Simon? | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
Right now, your track record is telling me | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
your net profit ratio is diabolical. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
OK, Simon, I'm really sorry, | 0:51:33 | 0:51:36 | |
-you've failed to explain to me the business model. -I appreciate that. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
There's clearly a market! You've got half a million in sales. | 0:51:40 | 0:51:44 | |
I'm out. | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
A failure to make the numbers add up rarely goes down well in the Den. | 0:51:49 | 0:51:54 | |
Simon loses his first Dragon. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
Peter Jones looks to have made his mind up, too. | 0:51:57 | 0:52:01 | |
I'm going to be quite quick. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:05 | |
You've taken a product to market, you've designed it yourself, | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
that is to be congratulated, | 0:52:08 | 0:52:11 | |
but I think it would be very difficult for me to invest... | 0:52:11 | 0:52:15 | |
..in somebody that is going to require | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
and expect a lot of assistance and mentoring and time. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:23 | |
Erm... That's something that, unfortunately, | 0:52:23 | 0:52:26 | |
-I have very little of - time. -Sure. | 0:52:26 | 0:52:29 | |
-It's not an investment for me. I'm out. -OK, thank you. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:33 | |
Simon, I'm not a million miles away from that. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
I love the product. | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
Difficult to come here and spout numbers, but you should've been better prepared. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:45 | |
I'd love to be your friend, but I'm not going to make any money. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:49 | |
-I'm out. -Thank you very much. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
Two more Dragons walk away from investing in Simon and his business. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:59 | |
Can logistics expert Hilary Devey | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
find a reason to throw him the financial lifeline he badly needs? | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
-Simon, you say they actually cost £20 to make? -Yes. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:14 | |
-Is that shipped? -We've got some shipping costs in there, as well. | 0:53:14 | 0:53:17 | |
What about distribution costs in the UK? | 0:53:17 | 0:53:19 | |
Coming from our warehouse to the customer has to be included in the overhead, as well. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:24 | |
-Right. -So there is courier costs. -So that, I would think, with a product like this, | 0:53:24 | 0:53:28 | |
-would easily account for at least £40,000. -Yes. | 0:53:28 | 0:53:33 | |
Answer me this. How did you manage to get John Lewis to promote them, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:40 | |
to sell them in their stores? | 0:53:40 | 0:53:43 | |
I met the buyer at the Nuremberg Toy Fair. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
They've just placed a nice order, their first order, | 0:53:46 | 0:53:50 | |
£35,000 worth for their autumn collection. | 0:53:50 | 0:53:56 | |
Er... We also talked to Harrods. | 0:53:56 | 0:54:00 | |
Why have you not done it with House of Fraser, Selfridges, Mothercare? | 0:54:00 | 0:54:04 | |
We will be approaching those, as well. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
Most of my customers are independent retailers. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
But I'd have thought, with a product like this, | 0:54:09 | 0:54:12 | |
what you should've been aiming for, what your vision would've been was brand awareness. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:17 | |
Sure. That's probably why I need a friend to give me some guidance! | 0:54:17 | 0:54:22 | |
The confidence returns. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:28 | |
Has the West Country entrepreneur got his pitch back on track? | 0:54:28 | 0:54:33 | |
Duncan Bannatyne is now ready to show his hand. | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
Simon, I'm not going to be your best friend | 0:54:40 | 0:54:43 | |
and go out drinking with you every Friday night, erm, | 0:54:43 | 0:54:46 | |
and sit in an office with you, | 0:54:46 | 0:54:49 | |
but I quite like it, in actual fact, when... | 0:54:49 | 0:54:53 | |
..somebody hasn't got the costings quite right, because that's something I can add. | 0:54:53 | 0:54:58 | |
I can analyse exactly the costs. | 0:54:58 | 0:55:01 | |
Because I like the product so much, I'm going to make you an offer. | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
I'm actually going to make you two offers. | 0:55:07 | 0:55:10 | |
I'll offer you the full amount you're asking for, £75,000, | 0:55:10 | 0:55:15 | |
-but I want for that 30 percent of the company. -OK. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:19 | |
I'll make you a second offer. I'm going to offer half the money, | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
that's £37,500, for 15 percent. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:26 | |
-With the second offer, you could get another Dragon to come in. -OK. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:30 | |
-With the first offer, you can just accept me. -Thank you very much. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
At last, Simon has received an offer of the £75,000 he needs | 0:55:37 | 0:55:43 | |
but at a level of equity three times the amount he initially intended to give away. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:48 | |
Will Hilary Devey now choose to undercut her rival's offer, | 0:55:48 | 0:55:52 | |
join forces with him or walk away from the deal altogether? | 0:55:52 | 0:55:57 | |
OK, Simon... | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
I also think it's a good product and I can see mileage in it. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
I can also help with my own marketing team and my own IT team. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:12 | |
What I've also got is a logistics company throughout Europe to ship it | 0:56:12 | 0:56:17 | |
-for a lot less than what you would pay. -Of course. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:21 | |
So I would like to offer you half the money | 0:56:22 | 0:56:26 | |
for 15 percent. | 0:56:26 | 0:56:30 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:56:32 | 0:56:34 | |
Well, thank you all very much. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:40 | |
I've learnt an incredible amount about the fact that I don't know | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
as much as I thought I knew about my business. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
And there's a lot more to learn. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:50 | |
I really do need some friends | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
and it would be good to have two friends. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:57 | |
-What I'd like to do is accept your offer. -Well done, Simon. Very good move. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:03 | |
Thanks very much. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:07 | |
Simon's done it. It wasn't a smooth ride, | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
but for two of the Dragons, the potential outweighed the risk. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:16 | |
Simon, did you think at the end that you would walk away with the investment? | 0:57:19 | 0:57:23 | |
Once I started getting a grilling, | 0:57:23 | 0:57:25 | |
especially when Deborah started getting into the numbers, I felt like I didn't have a clue! | 0:57:25 | 0:57:30 | |
It was established that I was looking for not only an investment, | 0:57:30 | 0:57:34 | |
I was looking for friends. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:37 | |
So Duncan and Hilary became my rich friends, if you like! | 0:57:37 | 0:57:41 | |
A dramatic end to the day. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:52 | |
It's important to get the numbers right in the Den, not just to impress the Dragons, | 0:57:52 | 0:57:57 | |
but because if you understand the figures, you usually understand the business. | 0:57:57 | 0:58:01 | |
Simon Booth was lucky to have two allies in Hilary Devey and Duncan Bannatyne | 0:58:01 | 0:58:05 | |
who helped him find clarity where there was confusion. | 0:58:05 | 0:58:09 | |
If you'd like to know why the Dragons invested in Simon, | 0:58:09 | 0:58:12 | |
press the red button now. | 0:58:12 | 0:58:14 | |
You can also apply to the programme if you think you have what it takes to face the multi-millionaires. | 0:58:14 | 0:58:20 | |
Just visit bbc.co.uk/dragonsden. Goodbye. | 0:58:20 | 0:58:25 | |
Next time on Dragons' Den... | 0:58:26 | 0:58:29 | |
-Where's your company based? -At my home. -So, your bedroom? | 0:58:29 | 0:58:32 | |
Basically, yes! | 0:58:32 | 0:58:34 | |
-I'm not finished. -Neither was I, but go ahead. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:37 | |
I was talking. | 0:58:37 | 0:58:38 | |
-You're just too confusing. -I know. | 0:58:38 | 0:58:42 | |
I don't want to invest in the world's most expensive beehive. | 0:58:42 | 0:58:46 | |
Frankly, the beast doesn't change. When that beast is hungry, it wants feeding. | 0:58:46 | 0:58:52 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:52 | 0:58:56 | |
E-mail [email protected] | 0:58:56 | 0:59:00 |