John Williams at the BBC

Hello!

Hello, it's John W here.

Williams.

The guitar player.

John Williams is able to sort of enrapture you,

and wrap himself

and the sound of the guitar around you.

I've known John since he was about 11.

He is a complete enigma to me as a person.

But that doesn't mean to say we don't make good music together.

One of the finest guitar players, ladies and gentlemen,

in the world today - Mr John Williams.

APPLAUSE

This guy, there's nothing like it.

I definitely think it was a kind of magic.

I was voted something like 12th best electric guitarist,

which is totally ridiculous.

JW, what a man.

John Williams? Brilliant guitarist.

He liked a joke.

I love it. And, you know, hopefully, if one is lucky,

one can be good at something one loves doing.

I remember it well.

Because my father was more or less responsible for the huge

popularity in the mid-'50s of the classical Spanish guitar,

as opposed to all the other, you know, skiffle, pop, jazz etc.

And his guitar school was quite a focal point.

But it's far too fast.

I've known John since he was about 11.

I thought he was a remarkable player.

But he'd been playing a long time.

He'd been playing since six.

He was taught beautifully and his father was a very fine teacher.

Len.

'The teacher, Mr Williams, is a dedicated man. His method is strict.

'He stands no nonsense.'

Yes, that's very good. Don't hurry from one phrase to another.

You see, you did this.

My father was actually very circumspect about

sort of exploiting me.

'A rock and roll guitarist can be turned out in 12 hours flat.

'The classical player must devote at least 12 solid years to

'patient study.

'You pays your money and you takes your pick.'

He was totally against the idea of the young so-called prodigy,

or talented young person, whatever,

being put out, you know, to do concerts.

Seeing yourself, like, from 50 years ago - I mean, I'm 74 now -

is, you know, a bit daunting, to be honest, you know.

It's like, almost, seeing someone else.

Will you please meet John Williams? Thank you!

APPLAUSE

The fantastic John Williams. And of course everybody knows

that's Eric Clapton's father.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr John Williams.

Thank you very much.

We came together. I think it was my idea but it may have been John's.

I certainly wanted us to play some duets

because, over number of years, there were two camps.

There was the Williams camp and the Bream camp, you see.

It was... It wasn't very pleasant, really.

And I thought the best thing John and I could do were to play duets.

That would disperse them.

And it duly did.

With Julian it was great, because we're very different.

And we mutually respect that.

It's better than being, like, two people who play the same.

But we used to feel, because we play differently,

it gave it a real dynamic, you know.

We'd have a phrase and we'd have to repeat it.

Then it would come out differently. It would still be together, we hope.

We were never a great duo, as such.

We were just rather good players, who played well together.

I liked the difference of our approach.

Well, you're no good playing table tennis without a bit of competition.

And I like the spontaneity.

Spontaneity is very important when there are two of you.

# Some of my best friends are songs. #

I just loved the opportunity of getting the guitar over, you know.

And a popular music show on Saturday night, for a classical musician,

so-called classical musician, to agree to go on it.

I mean, it's extraordinary to think nowadays, because no-one

would dream of saying...

Everyone's sort of... if there was a show like that,

there'd be sort of queueing up to try and get on it.

One of the finest guitar players, ladies and gentlemen,

in the world today, Mr John Williams.

APPLAUSE

I just thought, "Oh, what an opportunity," you know,

to play to 18 million people, live on a Saturday night.

APPLAUSE

Val loved the guitar.

I think the popularity of the guitar itself, of the classical guitar,

has a lot to do with me having been a guest on Val's show.

I mean, he did an enormous amount, quite apart from the

people that loved watching him every Saturday night.

A lot of people whose shows I was on that were in popular entertainment,

I was so impressed by their attitudes,

their ease of personality, the way they related to people.

The way they did their act.

Can I have a chair, please?

That's all I ask. Thank you.

Eric Sykes was a real musician's comedian, you know.

All the musicians loved him because of his timing.

Something very close to music in miming.

I was going to play a little piece, by Bach.

And then I thought, why?

He never plays any of mine.

LAUGHTER

It's a little piece called Amour, and it goes like this.

LAUGHTER

APPLAUSE

LAUGHTER

Our act started with him doing a Bach gavotte.

GUITAR MUSIC CONTINUES

APPLAUSE

And he would be playing something on guitar, which he could do.

He could play quite well.

Enough to mime something. And it would fool you.

It would even fool another guitarist, you know.

I've got to be honest,

that everybody mimes to records.

Well, I don't mime to records.

I have the real guy here, who's round the back.

The greatest guitarist in the world, and we're going to play you a duet,

John Williams.

APPLAUSE

I told you it was a classy act!

It's all right.

Fine, yes.

-OK, John.

-Same piece or...

Lovely.

-This one.

-Yes.

-HE CHANGES TUNE

-Yes. That one?

That one, yes.

LAUGHTER AND APPLAUSE

B.

-E?

-B.

C.

APPLAUSE

# Kiss today goodbye. #

Hello.

Hello.

'I think the word jazz is bandied around a lot, you know.

'Especially these days. By people who sort of play AT it.

'They play at jazz.'

They like the jazzy feeling, but generally when classical

people play anything popular or jazz,

they don't get quite the right feel, I think.

I'm not being conceited here.

I say it's a little bit in my blood,

'because my father was a 1930s, '40s session guitarist,

'jazz guitarist.'

We met him at Ronnie Scott's.

We went to see him

because we had heard that he was interested in doing something.

He liked to know and learn from

all these different people that we threw him into.

Of course at first one didn't feel that he was particularly funny or

had a sense of humour or something,

and he needed someone like...

say, like, John Dankworth, who had a great sense of humour

and they brought each other out.

Whereas I was never as good as them two.

I would like to have been, but I never achieved it!

I would like to introduce somebody

who is an old friend of ours.

Somebody who actually needs no introduction at all.

I'd heard him playing it on the guitar.

And I was quite happy to just sit and listen to it.

And I said, oh, I love that.

And there were no words to it then.

And I thought, that really is very beautiful.

# He was beautiful

# Beautiful

# To my eyes

# From the moment

# I saw him

# Sun filled the skies

# He was so, so beautiful

# Beautiful

# Just to hold

# In my arms

# He was springtime

# Winter was cold

# How could I tell him

# What I so clearly could see. #

I wrote that lyric in less than a week.

It just came very, very easily.

I didn't have to think about those lyrics whatsoever and a lot people

say to me, they nudge me in the ribs and say, "Come on, girl, tell me."

Who was he?

It wasn't anybody!

Except my husband and John Williams.

He is a complete enigma to me as a person.

But that doesn't mean to say we don't make good music together.

We're very different performers.

But that, I think, is good.

There is a tendency for people to want to make

a more uniform sound between two instruments,

but I think that the difference is very important

because, amongst other things, it adds a bit of pepper and salt.

We had ideas.

Not arguments.

Discussion.

And we put them in a hat and eventually it came out in the wash.

Until we got something halfway decent by way of a programme.

We were of our time.

And that was the sort of thing people wanted to hear.

Two good guitar players playing duets.

And then, finally, we didn't do anything very much more.

It...it...

it had come to an end.

We had said what we wanted to say as eloquently as we could.

And that was it.

It's very interesting.

You see, when you're with someone else on stage,

what you're communicating to the audience,

and it can be in a room with friends or it can be in a public,

you know, space, is you're communicating

the togetherness of the two of you and the music you're making.

Which is... OK, which seems obvious.

But when you're on your own,

a lot of the attention is on how well you are doing on your own.

To...to express yourself.

And, um... I'm sort of in two minds about that.

POUNDING ROCK BEAT

I met John on a recording session.

I think it was for Stanley Myers.

It was Francis Monkman on keyboard and we had such a rapport

going between us that Stanley Myers said, "You lot should form a band.

"You have a nice groove together when you're playing."

I think John thought the idea of playing a different

sort of music was quite... interesting.

MUSIC: GIGUE FROM FRENCH SUITE No 5 by BACH

I didn't want to be the only guitarist

and we needed someone who could do different styles.

I can only do the so-called classical style.

And I'd already met Kevin Peek,

an Australian guitarist who used to play backing for the Shadows

and used to do session work like the Val Doonican show, etc.

John was playing electric guitar with his fingers, which I think...

that in itself was a huge jump, especially for John.

I found with electric guitar, I thought

at first I could use my classical, so-called classical technique

on electric strings and then I found out later on that I couldn't.

I did it, and I was voted something like, I think,

12th best electric guitarist by Melody Maker one year,

which is totally ridiculous.

I mean, I wouldn't have been in the top thousand.

I thought, I sensed a look of puzzlement.

He was smiling, but I know he was out of his comfort zone,

but often, you have to be if you're doing something that is original.

Sky was... It was fantastic.

I mean, we gelled terrifically.

You know, we were very different,

some of us from totally different backgrounds

but we found a language of music.

For us, there aren't any barriers.

Were not actually consciously trying to do anything beyond doing

what we ourselves like playing and believe in.

We're not actually consciously trying to break down a barrier

but we recognise that we are, in fact,

probably helping people break down barriers.

We were kind of confident and comfortable with, er,

the music that we had to play, so we didn't need an image.

I had a red and blue jumper that I used to wear

because my mum knitted it.

I think there was a gap between the classical guitar

and the jazz guitar or the rock guitar,

and suddenly, for John Williams to...

lift over into another area,

was brilliant for young guitarists.

JW - what a man!

Why is one of Britain's most celebrated classical guitarists

suddenly becoming a rock guitarist?

Well, I don't know that I'm that successful at actually

becoming a complete rock guitarist.

You know, when things get too rocky and sort of heavy

and really rocky, I pass it all over to Kevin here, you see.

Ultimately, with Sky, it really did, from the guitar point of view,

break boundaries.

I think it was a real trailblazer.

It didn't mean that I stopped in any way my classical playing.

In fact, later on I was doing many other things and people said,

"Oh, you've, you know, you've switched horses.

"You're doing the popular thing.

"You're doing it for money, you're doing it for blah-blah-blah,"

all of which is rubbish.

Er... Because, it's quite an embarrassing thing to say.

I didn't want to say it at the time but actually...

if it was a financial thing, I would have been earning much more

just sticking to my classical playing, you know.

Please welcome a master of music.

We are so proud to have on the show Mr John Williams!

APPLAUSE

'I did a Les Dawson guest bit.

'Of course, it was Cavatina,

'the Deer Hunter tune.'

What better for him, you know?

You know, it's strange, when you think of it,

how two musical giants have never actually worked together.

-It would be nice, though, wouldn't it?

-I would love it.

Actually, do you like Cavatina?

I prefer Bolognese, myself.

LAUGHTER

He was naturally funny, naturally friendly.

Now, don't be nervous

because I do get a bit intricate in certain parts.

-We do it in E, do we?

-Pardon?

-In E?

-No, we'll do it in here.

LAUGHTER

So...just follow what I do.

All right? I'll just limber up the digits.

HE PLAYS A FEW NOTES

THEY START TO PLAY CAVATINA

LES PLAYS A WRONG NOTE

LAUGHTER

And to actually do it...

do it wrong is actually quite difficult and make it funny as well.

-Shall I show you?

-If you think it's better.

It's the B, then the...

and then the C sharp...

CRUNCH!

I knew that would happen!

I knew you'd get your thumb fast.

I knew it. Thank God you didn't have it on your knee.

So wait a minute.

LAUGHTER

You're totally wrong.

Look, this is the way it was written. Please, John.

I mean, I'm very embarrassed now.

LES PLAYS A WRONG NOTE

LAUGHTER

Les, Les.

Les, it really is not a C natural there.

It sounds crazy.

Look, I know you're supposed to know your business

but quite frankly, I know it's not much but this is my show.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm giving you no more support.

If I did, you wouldn't wear it.

As far as I'm concerned, Williams, you're on your own

but just remember one thing.

There's others available.

You're not just on your own, you know.

I can get anybody for that money.

Be it on your own head, Williams.

APPLAUSE

HE STARTS TO PLAY

APPLAUSE

Thank you, the fantastic John Williams.

And of course, everybody knows that's Eric Clapton's father.

APPLAUSE

I had a chance to collaborate with John Williams,

accompanying him in the second movement

of the Concerto de Aranjuez of Rodrigo,

the quintessential guitar piece that everybody knows.

The Rodrigo concerto is one of the great pieces of the 20th century.

I mean, it's the one that's captured the public imagination,

quite apart from the guitar public.

And rightly so, because that slow movement is a wonder.

It's a stroke of genius, the tune.

To have it with just guitar chords

and hearing it on the cor anglais, the tune, to start with,

guitar is a great instrument for playing just chords.

No other instrument plays chords that sound so nice.

I was... really, really scared of,

first of all, to... to play with him.

I mean, he practically wrote this piece.

And just because the music was so well known, I thought, well,

I can't screw this up.

But he made me feel so at ease and so comfortable and he said,

"Just lay the tempo down.

"Conduct, and I'll work around it."

Now, I'm used to following singers all around

and doing all kinds of cartwheels and I didn't have to with him.

I was just, like, working with a great musician

and with that instrument that creates intimacy

like no other instrument.

John is able to sort of enrapture you

and wrap himself and the sound of the guitar around you.

It was a unique experience for me

because I haven't worked with him since, unfortunately.

And I miss that.

HE PLAYS FINAL NOTE AND MUSIC FADES

LOUD APPLAUSE

I enjoy the guitar in a huge space.

I love it.

And hopefully, if one's lucky,

one can be good at something one loves doing.