Afghanistan: The Karzai Years

The Afghan President Hamid Karzai is preparing to step down and our chief

international correspondent Lyse Doucet has been given special access

to him to talk about the country's turbulent recent history. The worst

of attacks in 2001 brought the best chance for peace in Afghanistan. The

US led invasion in the wake of September the 11th toppled the

Taliban, and Afghans hoped it would end 30 years of war. From their

shattered nation, Hamid Karzai was chosen to lead. Then came the years

of soaring hope, searing pain, and fear of the Taliban's return. Now

Hamid Karzai blames his allies for much of his country's continuing

violence. 13 years on he is preparing to step down. And we gain

rare access to the palace to hear the President's reflections and

regrets. Nice to see you, Mr President. A

father lingers with his daughter before he heads to work. Hamid

Karzai has taken care of Afghanistan for a decade and more and now has

three young children. She is happy to say goodbye and not hello. She is

not used to the cameras. That her father has been in the spotlight

since the Taliban was toppled in 2001. My dear son, please go home,

he urges the eight`year`old. But the grounds of this heavily fortified

presidential palace are home, and almost every day for nearly 13 years

the President has walked to work. With AIDS, bodyguards and armoured

vehicles. Do you remember 13 years ago I stood outside there, December

2001, and you had just come back from Kandahar and this is where you

went. Your arrival to be the new leader of Afghanistan and the

Taliban had just fallen. Yes, we went over there. Hello? Can we have

your reaction to the news that you are the new chairman of the interim

council? So it was the BBC who told you this

news? A week later, Afghanistan's new

leader made it to the capital. Once the fight in the Taliban in the

South was over. What is your first priority, your most urgent one? The

first priority is total peace and security for the people of

Afghanistan. Together with that, to work very hard to provide our people

as soon as possible and economic opportunity so that people earn a

decent living. Also to continue to fight against terrorism, to make

Afghanistan a country ruled by law. We will need help from international

community the stability of Afghanistan. It was a sudden turn of

fate for a man who had 20 years as a manager Dean spokesman during the

war of Soviet occupation, who became a tribal chief after his father was

murdered. `` mujahideen spokesman. Now Hamid Karzai symbol to the hopes

of an entire generation. Suddenly there was change. Girls denied

schooling by the Taliban could return to class. And Afghans could

now decide their political future. In 2002, delegates descended on

Kabul to attend a traditional assembly. They confirmed Hamid

Karzai as leader of the year after he had been selected at a US

conference. In these early, emotional moments, Afghans looked

forward to a better future. Even if the men of the past, the warlords,

still took up the front rows. Many Afghans asked why they were still

there and still acting with impunity. There isn't a pervasive

environment of fear. There are some people that may intimidate people.

Human rights watch says people are literally afraid for their lives.

They are wrong to say that. Some people may be afraid but the whole

country is very enthusiastic. You should trust the Afghan nation, not

the few outsiders who come here for a day or two. Everyone had a place

in the new Afghanistan. It was Hamid Karzai's approach from the start. At

the first ever popular elections in 2004, Afghans gave him a new mandate

and they voted for him again in 2009. But by then doubts and

discontent were setting in. So has Hamid Karzai been able to keep the

promises he made to his people? We sit down together to look back at

his time in power. In the past 13 years, what was your proudest

moment? Well, plenty. Quite a few. Afghanistan became the home of all

Afghans. We practised democracy. We voted. Education. Freedom of speech.

Freedom of expression. Afghanistan's flag flying all over

the world. Too many happy children. But sadly also too many children

that became sad and lost their families and their own lives. You

don't feel you have failed the Afghan people? I have served where I

could in a great possible way. Where I have not been able to provide the

Afghan people with what they needed, I hope the next President

will. But so many Afghans are disappointed. When you leave power,

Afghanistan will have an economy that is worsening. Taliban threats

are still here and rising. Afghanistan for the past three years

has been described as the most corrupt country in the world. Well,

we still have problems. We are better country but we are still a

poor country, among the poorest countries in the world. We have a

long journey ahead of us as a nation to complete and the Taliban threat

will be there and we will continue to seek peace. Some of the job is

done and some of it is undone and left for the next President to be

done. When Hamid Karzai took on this job, Afghanistan was broke. Even a

new currency was launched. In 2002, we watched the President record a

video to introduce the new Afghan notes. So did his top advisers,

including the two men now vying to succeed him. Afghans asked where did

all the money go? Billions in aid are said to have been lost to

corruption. And in 2010, Kabul bank nearly collapsed, the place where

poor Afghans were depositing their money made hefty loans to the

well`connected, including the President's own family. Afghans say

that one of the biggest problems has not been foreign forces but

corruption and you have not done enough personally to fight against

corruption. Your country is now regarded as the most corrupt in the

world. Why did you look the other way? Depends on who you talk to. The

surveys say it. Surveys by who? Western organisations, sure, they

say that. So he refused to recognise corruption in Afghanistan? I don't

refuse. Corruption is there in Afghanistan but who is behind it?

Who brought the private security firms? Not Afghans. Who funded the

private security firms? The British and Americans. Who brought in

billions of dollars into those private security organisations that

not only brought corruption but in security to Afghanistan? You blame

everybody else. As the President you will not take responsibility for not

taking action? Hang on. I have things to say. Who brought the

contract? The Afghan Government did not bring any contracts. I did not

sign any contract. It was the United States that did that and Afghanistan

cannot be blamed for that. Of course Afghanistan has a complaint there.

Afghanistan is responsible, my Government is responsible and I will

take responsibility for the corruption in the day`to`day

administration and delivery of services. The big money is neither

ours nor did we have control of it. When outsiders look at the wealth

that has been accumulated by members of your Government, by prominent

people in your country, they ask how that can happen when so many people

are living in poverty. They did not earn that through Government

salaries. Exactly. Where did it come from? From contracts. Why did you

not hold any of these people accountable? I did. A lot has been

done. Hamid Karzai began as a leader who wanted to be close to his

people. So close his admirers and would`be assassins could reach him.

We filmed these exclusive pictures in Kandahar less than a year after

he came to power. The Taliban were blamed for this attempt. They came

close. I did not even know who was firing where so... I am safe and

sound. Do you feel shaken? No, I am fine. I expect things like that. I

have been through it before. Attacks by the Taliban and other armed

groups have grown over the years. In strength and sophistication. Suicide

bombings are reaching even the heart of the heavily protected capital.

Despite efforts at peace talks, Taliban violence is killing more and

more Afghans. Many Afghans are worried that once foreign combat

troops leave that you will be in the same situation as Iraq, and in your

case it will be the rise of the Taliban, that they could make a

comeback. Do you also share that concern? No, I don't. The Afghan

Taliban want peace. They are in contact with us every day. In my

opinion... If they want peace why are they continuing to attack the

vast majority of civilians? In my opinion, the Afghan Taliban want

peace and I know this. I also know that peace in Afghanistan, to the

extent of power here, is in the hands of Pakistan. If they cooperate

with us for peace, we will be peaceful. The Taliban alone will not

be able to bring peace to us because there is a different hand at play

and that and is not the Taliban. Worth their missed opportunities to

talk to the Taliban? `` were there? I worked very, very hard. No Afghan

President has ever done so much to bring our allies, the Americans and

others, to work for peace with us. Somehow they didn't want it. They

didn't want it? The Taliban didn't want it? Nobody wanted it. The

Taliban, as I told you before, they do want peace, they are just not in

charge. They said they did not want to talk to you because they called

to an American puppet. But they do talk to me. A spokesman says that

and we don't know where they speak from. The Afghan Taliban are in

contact with me every day. International forces came to

Afghanistan after the Taliban was toppled. First to Kabul and then

across the country. I have a son his age, his size. At their peak in

2011, US`led NATO forces amounted to 140,000 troops from 50 nations. But

the Taliban, with sanctuaries in neighbouring Pakistan, still

exhibited strength. From his first years in power, Hamid Karzai urged

his allies to tackle terrorism at its source. It has been one of the

main issues that strained his relationship with Washington, almost

to breaking point. When you accused the West of not wanting to carry out

a genuine war on terror, a war against violence, they find that

incomprehensible, that she would not believe they were here because they

are also suffering from this war on terror. They are suffering, as I

said earlier, as I said jawing this interview, `` juror in this

interview, the war on terror was not to be found in the Afghan villages.

They agreed with me time and again that, yes, there are sanctuaries

beyond Afghanistan, training places beyond Afghanistan, and that is

where the troubles are. They never tried to go and address that. So

that makes my conviction that there was no real effort at a genuine

campaign against terrorism. The West finds it outrageous that you would

want to cause instability across the region. The consequences are what we

see. Our intention is a different issue. I can't say whether they

intended it this way or not. The intentions are hidden from us. But I

see the results. The result is that there is a lot more instability.

There is a lot more violence across the region will stop I hope that can

be reversed and I hope that I am found out to be wrong one day by the

West, by their good work to bring more stability to the region, and to

the entire international community. Afghanistan and Iraq are different

countries but both had billions of dollars of investment from the

United States and other countries and both have significant training

of their Armed Forces. What we are seeing in Iraq is that it is just

crumbling. There is a risk it could also happen here. Iraq was a solid

country before the Americans went in. Exactly. It's Afghanistan in a

weaker position? Afghanistan has been a solid country for thousands

of years. Foreign forces have not brought instability to Afghanistan.

`` brought stability. Afghanistan will be kept by the Afghans as it

was in the past kept by Afghans. Yes, we need international support

where we do not have the means to sustain ourselves. That is welcome

and for that we are grateful. For a president who promised his people

peace there is still much suffering, so many civilian casualties. He has

been powerless to stop it and it pains him.

And now the Karzai years are coming to an end. As he begins the day he

asks his aides for the latest on the vote count in the presidential

election. Are you worried that the peaceful transfer of power could be

at risk. Tensions are already rising with both sides alleging there was

fraud. There are even accusations against you. The elections, as you

know, all over the world, they have emotions involved. Afghanistan will

be no exception. There will be emotions involved, there will be

demands of the election body and certainly on the president of the

country. I understand that perfectly well. And we will deal with those

difficulties and those emotions as they arise, as they come across our

way. But we should make sure, all of us, that the vote of the Afghan

people is respected. And good vote is separated from bad vote. Where

there are a irregularities, they are addressed. 13 years ago Hamid Karzai

took the world by storm with his charm and charisma and that

distinctive silk cloak. Rebuilding a shattered land turned out to be far

more difficult than anyone expected. Mr President, you say Afghanistan

has changed, but what about you? How have you changed since you came here

on September the 13th 2001. More experienced, more realistic and

hardened. Baked. Baked? Baked into becoming hard. Exhausted? Fed up?

Exhausted, yes. Fed up, no. What will you do with when you leave

office? I will be a retired president, stay in my country. The

government has built me a very nice house and I will keep advising

Afghans to have good relations with the West, good relations with

America, to learn from what they have offered the world, to educate

our children. But to sustain ourselves and stand on our own feet,

not be reliant on anybody but on our own hard work and toil. Many say you

will leave the office but you will not quite leave power. You will

still have influence and live right next door to your office. Influence

is one thing but power is another thing. I was not interested in power

even when I was a president. I did not exercise the same power as

someone else would. Power is not a good thing for me. Influence is

different. It is accepted. If the Afghans feel I have contributions to

make to the country to make it better, to provide advice to the

next president, I will be there. If the next president asks me for

advice I will offer it. I will back him and support him. I will be a

loyal subject to the next president. Does it hurt you that you went from

being the darling of the West, to now being in a situation where in

the West many find it very difficult to say anything good about you? I

would like to be the darling of the Afghan people. I'm an Afghan, the

president of Afghanistan, I will be living in Afghanistan. I would like

to be the darling of the Afghan people, I would like to be liked by

the Afghan people. I would like to be seen as having served the cause

of the Afghan people, having spoken up for them. I might not even visit

the West if the need to does not arise. I respect the West. It is a

great society. While considering myself a citizen of the world, a

fellow human being, and in the category of... You know... Of

belonging, I first belonged to Afghanistan, and then to this

region, and then perhaps to the world. What is your greatest regret?

My greatest regret... There would be many, many... Do you wish you'd done

things differently? Lack of peace is a regret I will take with me. I wish

Afghanistan had peace. I wish there was not so much loss of life in

Afghanistan and I wish the war on terror was fought genuinely in the

right place. For many years Hamid Karzai has had

a routine. Within these palace walls, surrounded by aids and

security barriers. Mr President, it is so beautiful

here, some might say it is the most beautiful prison in the world. You

have hardly been able to leave the palace. It is not a prison. It is a

house. President Karzai, for nearly 13

years you took care of an entire nation and now it is time to take

care of your family. Sure. She should go to a good school and study

and learn the languages. STUDIO: Your impression of this

weekend's weather will depend on where you live. Contrast today under

clear skies for the east of the UK, and it has been warming up a lot.

Further west we have