Football Abuse: Players Speak Out

Now on BBC News, time for a special programme about the revelations of

abuse in football with Victoria

Derbyshire. Three former youth players have told us about the abuse

they say they suffered at the hands of their coach Barry Bennell, a

paedophile. Andy Woodward told us about it in his first broadcast

interview, that he had been raped hundreds of times while at Crewe

Alexandra. In total, six others have come forward to waive their right to

anonymity. I spoke earlier to Chris Unsworth who says he was raped

between 50 and 100 times by Bennell at Manchester City and Crewe youth

teams. He didn't tell a single person about if abuse for over 30

years until in fact he saw our interview with Andy Woodward last

week. Jason Dunford says he was abused once by Bennell at the

Manchester City youth team and, when he told him to "get off" him,

Bennell forced him out of the club. They both spoke publicly for the

very first time today. We also spoke to Steve Walt, who says he was

repeatedly abused by Bennell whilst at Crewe. This is his first TV

interview. And with them was Andy Woodward, the player whose

revelations have inspired others to speak out. As you would expect, our

conversation with them was frank, open and covered details of sexual

abuse. First of all, let me thank you so

much for coming on the programme today. We really, really appreciate

you talking to our audience. Chris, I'm going to start with you. When

you first watched the interview with Andy last week, what effect did it

have on you? A massive effect really. Just watching Andy on TV, I

was just at home with my girlfriend who actually watched the TV

interview and brought it home and we sat down and watched it. I didn't

say anything, apart from, I knew Andy, I used to play with Andy. We

had a little chat. She asked me if I was OK then I came home and I sat at

home and thought about this and I thought, I've got to come forward.

Got to come forward and help everybody.

You had never told a soul? No. Never told anyone. Kept it locked away

right in the back of my head. And still, I'm reliving things, having a

chat with the boys, and reliving it. No, never told a soul.

You were first introduced to Bennell when he was a scout at Manchester

City. How did his abuse of you begin?

It began, he used to pick me up. I was probably one of the closest lads

that lived near to his house. In the Peak District? In the Peak District.

He used to pick me up and the abuse started in the car. He used to

touch, he used to play games in the car and that's when it all started.

And that would be on the way to training? On the way to training and

on the way back. Right. And then he invited you to stay over at his

house? Yes. That happened a little bit later but not long after. At

first there was, you know, two, three, four lads that used to stay

there and there was always two or three in the bed.

I'm going to ask you, Chris, what he did to you? Er... At first it

started, you know, the games used to start and it was hands everywhere,

then down the pants. And then later, it got more serious in the bedroom

where there was penetration, things like that.

And what age were you? I was about nine. And what did you, as a little

boy, think was going on? I didn't know what was going on, to be fair.

I just, I knew where I wanted to get and I thought, this is obviously

what I've got to go through. Did you know it was wrong, what he was doing

was wrong? I knew it was wrong, but I just went with it. Just went with

it. Did you ever consider telling a friend, a team-mate, another adult?

No, never. Why? It just wasn't the in-thing to do, it just wasn't the

in this have thing to do. When you set your goals where you want to get

to, it was never brought up, never. He stopped after a few years, as you

got older, sort of 13, 14? Yes. When you get a bit older and you know

you're growing up, you're a young adult, your body changes. That's

when your time really is it with him. He'll move on to fresh blood,

as they say. To younger boys effectively? Yes, to younger boys.

When you got to 15, 16, you turned your back on football? I did, yes. I

turned my back on football and I was lucky, saying lucky, is that the

right word - I had other sports to pursue. And I turned professional

golfer, so I had a sight and I had a goal and that was my escape route.

Right. And you turned your back on football because you were -- because

you associated it with this horror? Yes, somebody asked me that

yesterday. I don't know. Was I good enough? I don't know. Looking back,

I would say yes, I probably term football... I'd just had enough,

that was it. I can't imagine what it's like for a young boy growing up

through adolescence into adulthood and for decades keeping this kind of

cataclysmic secret. No. I chatted with my friend the other night about

this and you just get on with your life and you forget everything that

has happened. As I say, luckily, I had my golf to go to and that guided

me through I think. But I think... Both my parents have died and that

hurts me. Yes. Not telling them. Does it? Yes. But I don't know if

it's a good thing that I didn't tell them because they would have blamed

themselves, so... Chris, thank you for telling us

such, I mean such personal intimate and also horrific details. I want to

bring in Steve, if I may. I wonder, Steve, what the effect on you has

been of revealing this secret? It's been like a massive relief

after seeing Andy, how brave he's been last week, you know, the

article in The Guardian. I was in the house on my own and I read it, I

was inconsolable, I thought I was going to have a panic attack because

it was virtually the same scenario as me. It was just... Somehow I

picked the phone up and phoned the newspaper because I was that angry

andup set. But in another way, it was like the biggest relief, like I

said to Andy, it was like 100 tonnes lifted off my shoulders. Really?

Yes, because I've been carrying this all my life, my career's been ruined

and my relationships have been ruined. Just... I had to get it out

there because, you know, I've got children that this could never ever

happen to any more children. You had a reputation as being one of the

finest young footballers in the country as a teenager? That's right,

yes. People say to me, you know, what happened to you, Steve. In a

football environment, it's full of bravado and men and like, we've all

met last night, you know, and our stories, you know, we are all the

same. I can't believe how brave we've all been and it's just... You

think he effectively snatched your footballing career away from you?

Yes, that's what happened, you know. I suppose what's disappointed me

really is, craics, you know, I -- Crewe Alexandra, you know, Plymouth,

my dad's dead now but he ended up working at Crewe as well and my

parents put trust into that football club and basically they've let us

down. All of us.

Can you explain to our audience, Steve, why you were afraid to tell

anyone? I've always had... I've had problems

with relationships with men because I've always thought that, you know,

am I gay, you know. What's happened to us, he's made us feel like that,

you know, that's not right, you know. It's affected every single

relationship I've had with anybody but it's just so hard to explain.

It's so difficult, honestly. In the early 90s, the police did

talk to you didn't they, when they started to investigate Barry

Bennell? Yes, that's correct, yes. They came to my house on three

separate occasions and my career was, you know, I got told I was

never going to play football again so somehow I managed to carry on and

ended up playing in the conference but I still wanted that dream. I

wanted to fight this and beat this. If I did come out, would people

believe you, you know, if you come out with the accusations, so to

speak, would anybody believe you and would you get the support that we've

had at the moment. Back then you just did not know.

No. Jason, compared to Andy, Steve and Chris, you describe yourself as

lucky. Explain to our audience why you say that? I feel lucky because,

at the moment of what is determined now as sexual assault, I told him

where to go. I confronted him and, as I told the boys last night, I'll

never forget the deathly stare. And this was in his house? No, no, no,

this was in a holiday camp at Butlins. Yes. And that stare was one

of, I can never ever forget that stare, but from that day forward I

knew my life was going to be really difficult with this guy. Because you

told him to effectively told him where to go? I told him to F-off. I

remember physically hitting him. Of which there was no retaliation from

the guy. As a 13-year-old boy, 14, you know, nearly 14 years of age, I

was the same as every boy in the city. I had a dream of being a

footballer and every child who has a dream to me should be able to try

and achieve that dream without having to go through sexual abuse or

being around sexual predators. Barry Bennell to me was not only a

dangerous man and he still is a dangerous man, but most of the lads

that were involved in his coaching and being involved in the squads

that he coached over the years, will find this very difficult and

hopefully by what's going on, we are going to get some results.

When you told him where to go, he then started the mind games, said he

was going to play you, drop you, you would turn up at games on Sunday,

your mum would drive however many miles and you would be standing on

the sidelines and never get on and that was the start of him trying to

isolate you. What else did he do, Jason? Yes, he detached me from the

group by playing mind games with me. But like the lads have said, because

you're following a dream, you're prepared to go through with it. The

difference of why I feel different to these lads is that I wasn't

prepared to put up with that. I loved the game of football, I

thought to myself, there's other ways around this, Barry Bennell is

the be-all-and-end-all of getting me to where I want to two and, if I

have to go round the houses, I'll go to another team, I'll try something

a bit different because, as he tried to detach me from the group by

fabricating stories of me amongst my team-mates... Well, he said you

stole money from one of your team-mates didn't he? Yes, he took

us to Norfolk for a Canary Cup tournament when, at the time my dad

was a working class man, he had to pay for this, there was no trophy at

the end, the team had been dropped, defeated and my father said to me,

why haven't you played and I said, well, do you really want to tell

your parents that you have been accused of a thief. I want to ask

you guys if Andy hadn't spoken out, would you have ever come forward?

Not in a million years. I keep telling Andy this, what he's done is

so brave, inspirational. In my opinion, in our opinion, for what

he's done now, it's absolutely fantastic what he's done. So brave,

you know. I'll call him like my new brother, you know. What would you

say, Chris? It was locked way back in my mind

and I'd forgotten about it. I would never have come forward if I hadn't

have seen Andy on telly. But what was it about him speaking about his

experiences that inspired you to do the same? Just because I know what

he has been through because I've been through exactly the same and

all the lads have been through the same. This has got to stop. The only

way that I could help is to come forward. You seem quite strong,

Chris, if you don't mind me saying? Yes, a lot of people have said that.

But I don't know if I'm that strong, I don't know. Deep down I don't

think I am, but I'm now, I'm a funeral director, I see lots of

horrible things, so that's probably made me a little bit stronger than

the rest of the lads. What would you say to Andy? I love Andy to bits and

I'm here because of him. Andy, you've done a quite remarkable

thing, you know. I'm just totally overwhelmed, you

know. Last week, I was on here, I was on my own and I was so scared. I

knew that they were here. Honest to God, Victoria, I can't thank the

public enough and the media. And more importantly, the lads for

backing me up, you know. I'm just totally overwhelmed. Yes. I want to

ask you all about parents, your parents letting you stay over at a

coach's house. I would like to think that would never happen today. What

was different about back then? From my perspective, I'll come

together now, from my perspective, I've said it before in other

interviews that the parents didn't know, they didn't know. They are

also victims in this, you know. Absolutely. I had mum and dad in

tears last night because they actually realised for the first time

that they're actually victims as well in this. And they are. Is it

feasible that other adults at the time really didn't know what was

happening? Impossible. Football clubs I don't believe it for one

minute. I believe there was a conspiracy, there was a paedophile

ring and there was people at those football clubs that had duty to look

after the welfare of young boys coming through their system. This is

their potential future stars and their future stars are being

sexually abused and sexually assaulted by a member of their

staff. Steve, what do you think? Is it

possible other adults really didn't know? I don't honestly know. Until

Bennell's arrest? I honestly don't know, to be honest with you. Chris?

I think members of the club, they knew what was going on. They knew

what was going on. Are you talking about senior players? Senior

players. Senior management? Senior management. And the top as well. Is

this as big as Savile? I think Savile looks like a choir boy

compared to this fella and what's going on right now, let me tell you.

This is so big. As I said on Channel 4 last night, I'll tell you a story

that this is chilling this. Somebody rang me up and said, do you remember

going to Gran Canaria and I did it myself as well and he said, there

was seven of us that went away and he said, do you know what, we went

for seven days, with seven of us and he had one every night. Do you know

why you didn't talk to each other as boys? Back then? It wasn't the thing

to be done, was it, lads? No. From being 11 years of age, you didn't

discuss things like that. Because the dream would have burst. Lads

just concentrated on improving football. There is one Victoria, to

show you that this is how it was, a written rule. I remember being on a

train at the age of 13 and I've spoken to this lad and he's 25 --

it's 25 years since he's come out. We were sat on a train and he said,

do you remember Woody, do you remember and he looked at me and I

looked at him and we both knew and we eye contacted and he said you

knew didn't you and I said yes, I knew, but the rest, we didn't talk

to each other. Could it have been prevented?

Yes. Chris? I think yes, it could have been prevented, but way back

then, there was no laws. No. You just went with it. Up until 1990

whenever it was when he was first arrested, if you would have done a

background check in those days as it is today, it might have been OK

because he wasn't caught so what we are saying is, is we have got a

system in place at the moment whereby one of trust until you

become an offenders which obviously carries victims, then you can get

away with whatever you want to do. After Bennell's conviction in 1998

and George Ormond in 2002, that's the Newcastle United connection, as

far as I can see there was no effort made by any club or the FA to try to

investigate whether there were other alleged victims, whether there were

other offenders. What do you think of that?

Chris? I think it's shocking. Shocking. It's like everything that

we'd been through has been brushed under the carpet. And this is why we

are here today, to bring it out and to make people aware and hopefully

others will come out and join us. Yes. Steve, what do you think about

the fact that there was no wider inquiry from those within football

to try to find out if others had been affected? To be honest, I'm

gobsmacked really. All the organisations that are supposed to

be responsible for football and looking after children, they've got

a duty to protect us so all the appropriate authorities, you know,

down to the police and everybody, the whole of football just needs

ripping apart and, as I said before, this can never, ever happen to any

young footballer again. You know, us four, we have been

brave enough to come out now. We are all going through a lot of pain at

the moment, but if we can prevent anything else happening to any other

young children, you know, me personally, I'll die a happy man.

What do you want to happen now, Andy? I've got this endeavour to go

with this and I'm not going to stop. I've spoke to the FA and it's a

passion inside my stomach that I'm going to do everything I can to help

those young kids. I won't stop. It's like Steve said, I will die a happy

man now and I'm going to do everything I can possibly to help

people and all I've ever wanted in life was to help people. You know,

for me as well, I'm so emotional because last week I was sat in here

on my own and now I've got these guys and I've got so many people

that have worked so hard this last week and I just encourage, I know

there's more out there, Victoria, I