24/05/2016 BBC Business Live


24/05/2016

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This is Business Live from BBC News with Ben Thompson and Sally Bundock.

:00:00.:00:07.

Shell's boss in the hot seat as shareholders say they will vote

:00:08.:00:10.

With an investor pay revolt looming, are we about to see another

:00:11.:00:19.

shareholder rebellion? Unrest at Shelter as the company

:00:20.:00:42.

comes to blows with shareholders over executive pay and climate

:00:43.:00:47.

change -- unrest at Shell. How will it deal with new regulations?

:00:48.:00:54.

Singapore Boots said this was bound BSI as to what it says serious

:00:55.:00:57.

breaches of anti-money-laundering requirements.

:00:58.:01:04.

-- boots out the Swiss bank BSI. The global markets are heading

:01:05.:01:06.

south, we will explain why. And selling wine to China -

:01:07.:01:07.

we'll get the Inside Track on how New Zealand's most successful

:01:08.:01:10.

wineries is making a move into China and why the boss thinks Americans

:01:11.:01:13.

could double their wine And as a new study shows the French

:01:14.:01:15.

have the shortest working week - just 30 hours 50 minutes a week -

:01:16.:01:20.

those in Beijing and We want to know what's your

:01:21.:01:23.

typical working week? Just use the hashtag BBCBizLive,

:01:24.:01:30.

and let us know where you live. We're less than 30 minutes away

:01:31.:01:40.

from Shell's annual general meeting. Shareholders are expected to vote

:01:41.:01:46.

against a ?7. 6 million pay packet for company's

:01:47.:01:47.

boss Ben van Beurden after Shell saw its earnings fall 83%

:01:48.:01:52.

in the first three So could we now be looking

:01:53.:01:54.

at a shareholders spring? Some serious anchor store on their

:01:55.:02:08.

part? -- and cost on their part? Last month BP shareholders rejected

:02:09.:02:15.

a pay package of over $20 million for chief executive Bob Dudley

:02:16.:02:17.

after the oil giant recorded its biggest ever operating

:02:18.:02:20.

loss in history. And only last week almost 40%

:02:21.:02:22.

of Deutsche Bank shareholders refused to support the performances

:02:23.:02:24.

of the co-chief executives after sluggish profit growth

:02:25.:02:29.

and mounting regulatory fines. -- refuse to support the pay deal of

:02:30.:02:34.

the co-Chief Executive 's. Dissatisfaction with pay packets

:02:35.:02:38.

that don't reflect performance are expected to reach a high point

:02:39.:02:40.

next month when shareholders in the advertising giant WPP

:02:41.:02:43.

will vote on the on the latest pay deal for the company's

:02:44.:02:46.

CEO Sir Martin Sorrell. His 2015 pay packet totalled more

:02:47.:02:55.

than $100 million, making him That is a lot of sea rose on that

:02:56.:03:19.

pay packet! -- that is a lot of zeros.

:03:20.:03:20.

Joining me now is Catherine Howarth, chief executive of the Share

:03:21.:03:22.

There is a revolt against pay, the Shell AGM gets under way, there is a

:03:23.:03:35.

fall in profit, the boss is getting a big pay deal, investors are not

:03:36.:03:40.

happy? Not happy, and I expect a revolt, not on the scale of what

:03:41.:03:45.

happened up the peak six weeks ago, but ?4.4 million for years workers

:03:46.:03:49.

more than most of us would consider acceptable. -- for a year's work.

:03:50.:03:56.

The votes are in the hands of institutional investors, pension

:03:57.:03:59.

funds and fund managers, who act on the behalf of all of us. Everyone

:04:00.:04:04.

with a pension fund in Britain as a shareholder in Shell, lots of us

:04:05.:04:07.

will probably say no to the deal today, but it will probably go

:04:08.:04:11.

through. Correct me if I'm wrong, they are looking at how they will

:04:12.:04:15.

tackle climate change? It is not just the idea that we have to deal

:04:16.:04:18.

with it, there are strict targets in place. The big oil firms need to lay

:04:19.:04:24.

out how they will deal with those targets, and in Shell 's case they

:04:25.:04:29.

have not done that? Lestienne was a shareholder resolution, an

:04:30.:04:32.

opportunity to put something to the board of the company themselves --

:04:33.:04:37.

last year that was 99% of shareholders voted macro for this

:04:38.:04:40.

resolution calling for a clear disclosure about how the board would

:04:41.:04:43.

handle future risks to climate regulations and so on. These high

:04:44.:04:47.

carbon companies are becoming enormously risky. They have made a

:04:48.:04:52.

lot of money for us in the past, their business model is deeply

:04:53.:04:54.

threatened by the agreement struck in Paris last year. This is becoming

:04:55.:04:58.

a major issue between shareholders and these companies around the

:04:59.:05:04.

world. Tomorrow, we have Exxon and Chevron, the two biggest oil

:05:05.:05:08.

companies in the US market, they have their AGMs, I think there will

:05:09.:05:12.

be huge amount of dissent and a big shareholder rebellion. Shell is not

:05:13.:05:19.

yet delivering the kind of clear strategy for a low carbon future

:05:20.:05:24.

that shareholders want to see. On the issue of Chevron and Exxon, that

:05:25.:05:29.

begins tomorrow. They have been most resistant to laying out the strategy

:05:30.:05:32.

about how they will respond and what they will do, which is exactly what

:05:33.:05:38.

investors want to hear? Of course. These are enormously valuable

:05:39.:05:41.

companies, they perform an important role in our pension funds pots, we

:05:42.:05:46.

depends on them for our rink in old age. Everyone watching this

:05:47.:05:49.

programme who has a pension fund at all, which is everyone working in

:05:50.:05:52.

Britain and many around the world, they want to retire on something

:05:53.:05:56.

that they can live on, and that depends on companies having smart

:05:57.:06:00.

strategies that deal of the future. Most of us will not draw our

:06:01.:06:05.

retirement incomes for 20 or 30 years, we need a really long-term

:06:06.:06:10.

focus, not a backward looking, we knew is to make a lot of money by

:06:11.:06:13.

drilling from the ground and we can do it any more. Thank you Brexit

:06:14.:06:18.

Lane in Best, Catherine Howarth, the chief executive of the Share Action

:06:19.:06:21.

campaign. Revenues at Spotify have hit

:06:22.:06:22.

$2.2 billion for the past year, but the Swedish music streaming

:06:23.:06:26.

service still hasn't Those revenues were up 80%,

:06:27.:06:28.

almost doubling the The site offers a paid

:06:29.:06:31.

for subscription service Toyota is recalling nearly

:06:32.:06:36.

?1.6 million vehicles in the US to replace potentially faulty air

:06:37.:06:43.

bag inflators made by Takata. The Japanese auto-maker said

:06:44.:06:49.

the latest recall includes some but not all models of the Corolla,

:06:50.:06:52.

Sienna, and Lexus manufactured American firm Coca-Cola has stopped

:06:53.:06:55.

producing soft drinks in Venezuela, because of a sugar shortage

:06:56.:07:03.

in the country. Sugar cane production has been

:07:04.:07:06.

falling, because of rising costs. The company said it would continue

:07:07.:07:08.

producing sugarless drinks The firm's announcement comes

:07:09.:07:10.

after Venezuela's biggest brewer closed ITS plants due

:07:11.:07:16.

to a barley shortage. -- closed its plants. Let's take you

:07:17.:07:31.

to the BBC website and a story that we are following, strikes that have

:07:32.:07:36.

hit French oil refineries. This is coming through to us. This is as a

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result of new labour law is spreading to all eight oil

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refineries in the country, an ongoing dispute which has escalated.

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20% of petrol stations have either run dry when it comes to their

:07:50.:07:54.

supplies or are very, very low on supplies. This is a strike against

:07:55.:07:58.

changes to labour laws which is spreading. We have been covering it

:07:59.:08:03.

as a story and will keep an eye on that development.

:08:04.:08:04.

The Swiss bank BSI has been forced to close its branch in Singapore

:08:05.:08:07.

after being linked to a scandal at Malaysia's troubled

:08:08.:08:09.

Swiss authorities also began criminal proceedings

:08:10.:08:12.

against the bank over serious breaches of anti-money

:08:13.:08:14.

It's the first time in 32 years that the Singapore Central Bank

:08:15.:08:20.

Leisha, talk us through what's happened here and why?

:08:21.:08:30.

It is quite unprecedented, 32 years since they did anything like this,

:08:31.:08:35.

they are getting tough on the bank for alleged misdemeanours? That's

:08:36.:08:40.

right. Singapore is taking a really tough stance on money-laundering in

:08:41.:08:45.

the City, so BSI has really had an incredibly bad day. In the past

:08:46.:08:50.

couple of hours, the Swiss have also announced they are launching

:08:51.:08:54.

criminal proceedings into the bank over these allegations of

:08:55.:08:56.

money-laundering, bribery and other offences. Singapore took the step of

:08:57.:09:02.

shutting down the operation here, but BSI is domiciled in Switzerland

:09:03.:09:06.

and so regulators in both countries have been examining the firm over

:09:07.:09:11.

its dealings with this elation state firm. Over these dealings that they

:09:12.:09:16.

have examined, they have find it several million dollars -- dealings

:09:17.:09:21.

with this Malaysian firm. Following the decision, the group's CEO will

:09:22.:09:28.

step down with immediate effect. Who is this Malaysian firm? It is state

:09:29.:09:32.

funded and it has faced allegations that more than $4 billion years was

:09:33.:09:38.

misappropriated. They have said there is no wrongdoing, but

:09:39.:09:40.

ultimately it looks like authorities are still chasing this very, located

:09:41.:09:46.

money Trail. Thank you for making sense of that, Leisha Chi in

:09:47.:09:49.

Singapore. The king of the markets in Asia,

:09:50.:09:55.

will get you up to date with what's was happening, Japan is down 1%,

:09:56.:10:02.

Hong Kong by 0.33%. That is how the Dow closed on Wall Street.

:10:03.:10:06.

Some of these issues dogging investors are happening. Oil prices

:10:07.:10:10.

falling, lots of uncertainty about what is happening in the month of

:10:11.:10:15.

June, the US Federal Reserve meeting and the UK referendum on membership

:10:16.:10:18.

of the European Union. That is really on the mine of investors. We

:10:19.:10:22.

could see sterling on the move. The governor of the Bank of England,

:10:23.:10:28.

Mark Carney, is before the Treasury. He could be drilled on his views on

:10:29.:10:32.

how a decision on our membership of Europe will affect our economy. Keep

:10:33.:10:37.

an eye on the pound, keep an eye on those issues. Losses

:10:38.:10:41.

across-the-board. Also deliver stories, like Deutsche Bank, Moody

:10:42.:10:46.

's downgrading its outlook again. Its shares are on the move.

:10:47.:10:48.

And Samira Hussain has the details about what's ahead

:10:49.:10:50.

American electronics giant Best Buy will report earnings and choose day.

:10:51.:11:02.

This is the biggest US consumer electronics chain. But falling sales

:11:03.:11:07.

of mobile devices will mean that profits have taken a hit for the

:11:08.:11:10.

quarter, and it has already said that first half quarter sales have

:11:11.:11:16.

declined. It will be interesting to see if they make any changes to

:11:17.:11:21.

expectations. Hewlett-Packard Enterprises also

:11:22.:11:26.

reporting. Back in November 2015, it split into two separate companies.

:11:27.:11:32.

Each sells computers and printers -- HP sells computers and printers,

:11:33.:11:35.

Hewlett-Packard Enterprises deals with software and servers. Analysts

:11:36.:11:43.

believe that the reshuffle will help the enterprise company's resources.

:11:44.:11:44.

Joining us is Richard Hunter, head of research at Wilson King

:11:45.:11:46.

Nice to see you, Richard. A month from now, we will know, In or Out,

:11:47.:11:56.

by the 24th of June we will know. Hopefully! If it is really close,

:11:57.:12:00.

you never know explanation I am optimistic that it will all be over

:12:01.:12:03.

by the 24th. We will hear from Mark Carney today,

:12:04.:12:08.

giving evidence to MPs about the inflation report. Likely to be a

:12:09.:12:11.

question about the impact of Brexit or otherwise on the UK economy? The

:12:12.:12:17.

market has been fairly nervous about this, there will be volatility,

:12:18.:12:20.

whatever happens, even if we stay in. There has been a period of

:12:21.:12:28.

underperformance, which we have had before the UK election and the

:12:29.:12:32.

Scottish referendum. If we should leave, there will doubtless be

:12:33.:12:35.

volatility downwards. But at least it will be out of the way. Positives

:12:36.:12:39.

and negatives in terms of whatever the outcome might be. This is really

:12:40.:12:45.

becoming front and centre now. The problem we have got, I think, in

:12:46.:12:48.

terms of the electorate as much as the market, is that there is a lot

:12:49.:12:53.

of vitriol beginning to come out from both sides now. This really has

:12:54.:12:58.

to be put to one side to focus on the real arguments of In or Out.

:12:59.:13:03.

Without question, we will know in a month. How friends and Central is it

:13:04.:13:08.

for the US Federal Reserve? Two issues in terms of the US market. At

:13:09.:13:13.

the moment, there are the US elections. Whoever may get in as the

:13:14.:13:17.

president. Also the fact that the markets deems to be suggesting that

:13:18.:13:22.

we might be getting a June rate high after all. Their decision is before

:13:23.:13:27.

the UK referendum, will that hold them back at all, or are they not

:13:28.:13:32.

that fussed? It is a possibility, but in terms of market movement, I

:13:33.:13:37.

think the referendum is probably more at the forefront of investors'

:13:38.:13:41.

minds, because even if the Fed hike, and they have said this before, it

:13:42.:13:47.

will be fairly small. It will not really affect whatever we're doing

:13:48.:13:51.

in Europe. Thank you for now, Richard. We will talk about working

:13:52.:13:56.

weeks later. The French have the shortest, Hong Kong has the longest.

:13:57.:14:01.

Let us know at BBCBizLive, we will talk to Richard later.

:14:02.:14:04.

It's been a record harvest for vineyard's in the Marlborough

:14:05.:14:08.

We will hear from the man behind Cloudy Bay, one of the biggest

:14:09.:14:26.

wineries. Stay with us. It is a very important day for Greece, in

:14:27.:14:28.

Brussels European leaders are grappling with a decision on Greek

:14:29.:14:31.

debt and the relief of it. Finance ministers are meeting today

:14:32.:14:36.

to reveal a new deal which would lock more bailout for Greece and

:14:37.:14:39.

resolve the row with the IMF over debt relief for Athens.

:14:40.:14:47.

Andrew Walker has the details. Demonstrators outside Parliament

:14:48.:14:55.

over the weekend. Lawmakers have proved another batch of reforms

:14:56.:14:57.

which could pave the way for bailout funds. They could include more

:14:58.:15:02.

taxes, setting up a bailout fund and making it easier for banks to deal

:15:03.:15:06.

with problem loans. But the mechanism for cutting spending a

:15:07.:15:09.

financial targets are missed. The Greek finance minister needs two

:15:10.:15:13.

things, a long, delayed bailout payment, and debt relief. He needs

:15:14.:15:20.

the bailout cash ahead of bailout payments,...

:15:21.:15:25.

Eurozone finance ministers will also debate debt relief. Something the

:15:26.:15:30.

International Monetary Fund insists is needed to make Greece's debt

:15:31.:15:34.

burden sustainable. That would likely mean lower interest rates and

:15:35.:15:38.

more time to repay debt. But no one ducks and or hack at to the amount

:15:39.:15:41.

that Athens must pay back. there Some of the other stories we

:15:42.:15:56.

are trying to squeeze in. S Nationwide reporting a 23% rise in

:15:57.:16:01.

profits. Up from as it says ?1 billion a year earlier. The story

:16:02.:16:05.

for Nationwide is mortgage lending. There has been a rise in net

:16:06.:16:11.

mortgage lending. It was up significantly, but repayments too.

:16:12.:16:16.

Clearly, watch closely given the impact it has on the housing market.

:16:17.:16:27.

If you are a Severn Trent customer. It says it is expecting to save ?670

:16:28.:16:34.

million between 2015 and 2020 as it locks in its efficiencies. The

:16:35.:16:39.

company supplies water across the UK Midlands and says the savings are

:16:40.:16:46.

about ?260 million a head of their expenditure target. So they seem to

:16:47.:16:47.

be hitting their targets. Our top story: The rebellion

:16:48.:16:54.

against multi-million pound Today, it's Shell executives

:16:55.:16:57.

who face a shareholder backlash. Top investor groups are opposing

:16:58.:17:05.

the firms multi-million dollar pay You know we're fond

:17:06.:17:08.

of discussing drink on this We're getting the inside track

:17:09.:17:26.

on how a New Zealand based business is taking on the traditional

:17:27.:17:36.

French vineyards. Cloud Bay is based in Marlborough

:17:37.:17:39.

on the Southern Island of New Zealand and the company

:17:40.:17:42.

is best known for its In 2003, Cloudy Bay Vineyards

:17:43.:17:44.

were bought by the luxury goods firm LVMH who also own Louis Vuitton

:17:45.:17:58.

and Moet and their wines are now Well, Victoria met

:17:59.:18:01.

the man behind the brand, Ian Morden who is in London

:18:02.:18:12.

for the Chelsea Flower show She started by asking him how

:18:13.:18:14.

they cope when there That's one of the interesting things

:18:15.:18:18.

about being in wine, but you can do a couple

:18:19.:18:24.

of things to hedge. One of the things we do

:18:25.:18:27.

is we are taking more grapes than we need and call it the policy

:18:28.:18:30.

buffer and that's important because then we can deliver

:18:31.:18:33.

the quality as much as the quantity. As a New Zealand wine,

:18:34.:18:36.

your biggest market not surprisingly is Australia,

:18:37.:18:38.

but it is not your biggest The US is the biggest

:18:39.:18:40.

growing market. One of the reasons is the US came

:18:41.:18:43.

very late to drinking wine. If you look at the numbers,

:18:44.:18:47.

they drink 11 litres In Australia or here,

:18:48.:18:51.

it is more like 22. So there is absolute potential

:18:52.:18:54.

there. Why where do you see growth in

:18:55.:18:55.

the medium-term for your business? I think in the medium-term,

:18:56.:18:58.

the growth will be in China and it will be Pinot Noir as much

:18:59.:19:03.

about Sauvignon blanc. And why China because a lot

:19:04.:19:05.

of luxury companies have been really Well, I think the next generation

:19:06.:19:08.

of wine drinkers in China is moving from Bordeaux to the lighter style

:19:09.:19:12.

of reds like Pinot Noir. The other thing that is happening,

:19:13.:19:14.

is people want wines that have a story, that

:19:15.:19:17.

have good provenance. You have been owned by the luxury

:19:18.:19:19.

goods company for 13 years now. How does that dictate the style

:19:20.:19:22.

and the strategy of the company? Well, we work in a Matrix

:19:23.:19:25.

organisation. So we share ideas.

:19:26.:19:28.

We collaborate. But what it gives us

:19:29.:19:31.

is access to capital. It gives us access to the luxury

:19:32.:19:34.

marketing skills that come with being part of that company

:19:35.:19:38.

and it gives us a long-term view. You need long-term thinking

:19:39.:19:45.

to make good wine. Cloudy Bay owns a lot of its supply

:19:46.:19:50.

chain, doesn't it and acquiring land How much of your day

:19:51.:19:53.

does that take up? Well, for me it takes up a lot

:19:54.:19:59.

of my time and there is a race on at the moment to secure the best

:20:00.:20:02.

sites for quality wine. Our style is a particular style

:20:03.:20:05.

and that means we're limited So yes, it takes up a lot of

:20:06.:20:08.

my time. Why is that? Why is there a scarcity

:20:09.:20:20.

factor around land? When you fly into Marlborough, we have two

:20:21.:20:24.

mountain ranges and we have only got so much land and then there is the

:20:25.:20:28.

sea. There are 25 hectares. Most of which is planted. A lot of which is

:20:29.:20:32.

not of anymore interest to us anyway. So there is scarcity and on

:20:33.:20:38.

the other side, we've got growing demand in the US and China so it is

:20:39.:20:40.

driving value up. That's not necessarily a bad thing.

:20:41.:20:43.

Increasingly the data shows that people are spending more on

:20:44.:20:46.

experiences and less on products for example. So how does that translate

:20:47.:20:50.

into your business? Well, let's come back to the idea of natural will

:20:51.:20:53.

besry. We are using the natural assets. This is why the garden is so

:20:54.:20:57.

good. It evokes what we have in New Zealand. New Zealand is like a big

:20:58.:21:01.

garden. Wine is a cultural connector. It is as much about the

:21:02.:21:06.

wine as it is about the context, the place, history, culture, it is true

:21:07.:21:11.

in Bordeaux and it is true 234 inn Marlborough. In the last 12 months

:21:12.:21:15.

or so, I have seen an increase in visitors coming from China to New

:21:16.:21:20.

Zealand and I think it is part of the rediscovery of some of the lost

:21:21.:21:24.

nature for them in New Zealand. When you fly into some parts of the

:21:25.:21:29.

world, you see how heavily industrialised it is and you see

:21:30.:21:33.

pollution. The wines come from a pristine place and that's attractive

:21:34.:21:36.

to people and they want to come to the source. I see that side just

:21:37.:21:40.

growing and growing for us. You are still as a wine, a luxury. It is not

:21:41.:21:45.

the same as clean water. So how do you position yourself to make sure

:21:46.:21:48.

that people do still spend when times are tight? As a simple

:21:49.:21:52.

pleasure, you know, the current marketing campaign that we have is

:21:53.:21:56.

based around the idea of escapism, sailing away and it is not really

:21:57.:22:00.

that complicated to take a glass of wine into the park, if you are in

:22:01.:22:04.

Paris, here it is Hyde Park and right here, it is the Cloudy Bay

:22:05.:22:06.

Garden. A simple pleasure. That was the Chief Executive of

:22:07.:22:18.

Cloudy Bay. Richard is back with us. We're going

:22:19.:22:23.

to discuss working weeks. The French, unsurprisingly, have the

:22:24.:22:29.

shortest working week. In Hong Kong it is the longest. In France they

:22:30.:22:33.

are in the process of banning out-of-hours e-mails. In terms of

:22:34.:22:38.

the 50 hours for Hong Kong, it is the fact that you can work from

:22:39.:22:43.

anywhere. You are always on-call. That includes the time you spend

:22:44.:22:46.

doing work at home? I would have thought so. I guess that's one of

:22:47.:22:49.

the reasons the French are doing this in an effort to restrict the

:22:50.:22:53.

amount of hours you can... How long is your working week? It is probably

:22:54.:22:58.

about ten hours a day I would have thought. Five days a week? Five days

:22:59.:23:05.

a week. So you're hitting 50, not the age, I mean the number of hours

:23:06.:23:10.

a week! Yes. I think the Monday to Friday is the main thing. You've got

:23:11.:23:16.

those two days to recharge. Gavin points out, a lot of you getting in

:23:17.:23:23.

touch with us about this. Gavin says, "From what I've read

:23:24.:23:26.

productivity in France, they are the most productive per hour in the EU."

:23:27.:23:29.

That's the issue, it is not necessarily about how many hours

:23:30.:23:32.

you're putting in, it is how much work you do while you're there?

:23:33.:23:38.

There is the other issue that the work-life balance, whilst it might

:23:39.:23:42.

be the case that there are countries in Europe which have the occasional

:23:43.:23:50.

seest ta and shorter working weeks, it is different culturally. Zac

:23:51.:23:54.

says, "My average working week is 35 hours." Another viewer in Nairobi,

:23:55.:24:00.

"My working week is equivalent to 55 hours." Zac in New York, hello.

:24:01.:24:05.

You're up very late. That might be an indication. Maybe you've been

:24:06.:24:11.

working in the office late! There is statistics about how much we're

:24:12.:24:16.

spending on our phones. 29 extra days a year on hand-held devices? As

:24:17.:24:23.

the article points out for UK managers doing the 29 days, that's

:24:24.:24:28.

wiped out your holiday entitlement. The crowd funding project when it

:24:29.:24:32.

came to solar panels in the UK, they got the money, but the company has

:24:33.:24:37.

not really made it. No, they did get the money quickly and the management

:24:38.:24:41.

team at the time said that was more than we would need, our investment

:24:42.:24:46.

requirements are fairly modest and 18 months later unfortunately, the

:24:47.:24:51.

company has collapsed into insolvency. They are making the

:24:52.:24:54.

point that the majority of people who invested in the company

:24:55.:24:58.

self-certified, they were professional investors, but

:24:59.:25:00.

nonetheless, it is likely they'll get... This reminds us of the risk.

:25:01.:25:07.

High risk, high reward. And these companies that manage to raise money

:25:08.:25:11.

very, very quickly in an alternative way, yet, there is the risk there

:25:12.:25:19.

still? Yes, it follows in June 2015 a claims management, that went under

:25:20.:25:27.

with around ?800,000 funding. I'm sure there will have been successes

:25:28.:25:32.

and start-ups in general have their backs against the wall. Crowd

:25:33.:25:36.

funding is untried and untested, people getting into that market, but

:25:37.:25:42.

it is a little bit still a grey area when it comes to regulation. The

:25:43.:25:47.

regulator doesn't know how to monitor it? There will be other

:25:48.:25:51.

things. Peer-to-peer lending should they really gain traction and gain

:25:52.:25:57.

popularity, the regulators will be all over it, I'm sure. Richard,

:25:58.:26:01.

thank you. Nice to have you with us too. Enjoy the rest of your day. We

:26:02.:26:03.

will see you soon. Hello again. For some a chilly start

:26:04.:26:16.

and for others a foggy start. But

:26:17.:26:18.

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