28/10/2016 BBC Business Live


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with Victoria Fritz and Jamie Robertson.


Are Uber drivers being taken for a ride?


A UK court is set to rule on demands for paid leave and pensions,


in a major test case for the gig economy.


Live from London, that's our top story on Friday the 28th of October.


Drivers for the cab-hailing firm Uber


will learn later whether they are entitled


to holiday pay, rest breaks and the national living wage.


booming ad sales spell out big profits for Google owner, Alphabet.


European markets have been open about half an hour.


A lot happening in the banking sector.


Royal Bank of Scotland shares up strongly.


And we'll be getting the inside track on a huge trade deal


that was on and then off - and then back on again,


a global economy that seems to be getting back on track


Today we want to know, would you be prepared to pay more


for your Uber if the money went to the driver?


We start here in London where a court is due to rule


on what's being called the employment case of the year.


Taxi hailing app Uber is being sued by 19 of its drivers


demanding the right to holiday and sick pay and a pension.


It could have major implications for the wider gig economy,


where companies use apps to employ people on a freelance basis,


for everything from deliveries to baby-sitting.


For Uber, there is a huge amount at stake.


In just six years, it has ballooned from a tiny start up to a company


spanning 70 countries and valued at $66 billion.


Uber has always maintained that its drivers are self-employed.


They get to work as little or often as they wish


but without the benefits of staff employees.


However, the plaintiffs argue they are employed by the company,


so it owes them paid leave and a pension.


If the judge agrees, tens of thousands


of other UK Uber drivers could claim the same benefits.


That could push up the cost of booking an Uber ride here in the UK.


Uber is fighting similar challenges around the world.


In August, a US judge rejected a $100 million deal


saying that the settlement was not fair,


But not everyone who drives for Uber is unhappy with the way it operates.


Here are two London drivers who have very different views.


I am not self-employed. The definition of self-employed is that


I create the business, where I do not. I follow the app, and that gets


me access to the job, and I do not get paid. Uber get paid, and they


control all these things. I was always a creative person, I run


different projects, a tech start-up, we are very busy. Sometimes I cannot


drive for days, OK, all week I am going to drive on Uber and make some


cash. All the benefits, they are enjoying it, and I left all alone


just to fulfil the responsibility. With the responsibility there comes


a price, holiday pay, pension, all these things. I don't want to be


owned by it, I don't want to be ruled by a company. I want to be


able to build my own business, or when I go away, I don't need to ask


for permission, is it OK if I am not working this week? I cannot do that.


Anna McCaffrey is an employment lawyer at Taylor Wessing.


You can take us through some of the details, why do the drivers say they


want to be treated as employees? What is the ultimate? They're


adamant is essentially around control, in that they say whilst


Uber acts as an app, they control how drivers pick people up, the fact


that they can give and take feedback on the ride and the driver, and also


in relation to how Uber sets prices, that means that they are not really


acting at arms length, as Uber have claimed. Really, they are under


control and are real workers and should therefore get workers'


rights. As an employment lawyer, is their case a strong one? It is


definitely very interesting. Employment status has always been a


grey area, and since the days of master and servant, we have tried to


figure out who is self-employed and who is an employee, but now we are


trying to apply this to different situations, and technology has


really changed that. They do have a good case, but equally I think the


company, Uber, have a lot of valid points to make. What is their main


point? Uber's case is that they are not a taxi company, they are a


technology company, and they act as a platform to connect freelancers,


the drivers, with customers, and that they are not controlling those


people, they are the facilitator rather than an employer. It is a


little rich, isn't it? In terms of the spirit and the letter of the


law, ask any consumer what Uber is, it is a taxi hailing app. That is


the thing about the gig economy, the new way of getting surfaces, their


argument is they are just providing a platform for taxi companies. Even


traditionally black taxi tarmac cab drivers have been self-employed.


What could be knock-on effects be? There is a cost to Uber itself of


having to pay holiday pay, sick pay, pensions - that could be phenomenal


and could potentially affect the viability of the business model. On


a wider scale, there are a lot of companies in the digital economy


that have similar platforms, they are looking very carefully at the


outcome to see what it might mean for them. The third reason is that


there is a lot of political focus on this, the Government are looking at


Venice, whether we have got the right balance between self-employed


and the rights of companies. Thank you very much indeed.


the company behind search giant Google.


Its shares have been on the rise in after hours trade,


after a 27% jump in quarterly profit.


It made more than $5 billion in the three months to September.


It's mostly down to booming advertising sales.


But Alphabet has also been spending a fortune


gambling on new technology what it calls other bets.


Here's the BBC's tech reporter in San Francisco, Dave Lee.


Google's success in this quarter has been largely down


Compared to this time last year, interactions with mobile apps


has gone up by around 33%, which is quite something


given that many people thought Google's Achilles heel


a few years ago might have been making the transition from desktop


advertising to interactions when we are on the move.


Also interesting from Alphabet's earnings


These are things that are not related to the core Google business,


but are slightly more outlandish or experimental ideas.


The other bets include things like the Nest thermostat


that Google sells, and also fibre, an effort to install


superfast broadband in cities all across the US.


We know these are the bets that have made a bit more money,


compared to $141 million this time last year.


While Google's core business is search and advertising


at the moment, who knows which one of these other bets


will end up being Google's main business in the feature?


It could take time and patience, but Google and Alphabet


for the time being seem to be very much on the right track.


There has been some surprisingly downbeat news from Amazon


The last three months produced lower profits than expected,


and it says the Christmas season, which is vital to its business,


is not going to be as profitable as it hoped.


On top of that, it's investing heavily in new ways


of shipping parcels by drones and in video productions.


UPS has ordered 14 Boeing 747s in a deal worth around $5.3 billion.


and Boeing had said it was thinking of stopping production altogether -


But this may breathe new life into the iconic old jet.


Another casualty of the falling pound.


The airline operator IAG, which owns British Airways and Iberia,


managed to report a small rise in profits


to $1.22 billion in the third quarter.


But the chief executive, Willie Walsh,


of the pound had cost it $177 million.


The world's largest brewing company, AB InBev, has reported an unexpected


drop in profit following declining sales in Brazil.


It made a downward revision to its earnings forecast. EU member that


earlier in the month it completed its $100 billion acquisition of its


rival brewer SABMiller. Shares in Chinese internet giant


Baidu slipped on Thursday after it reported an unprecedented


quarterly drop in revenue. Tell us what happened. Well, Baidu


is known as China's version of Google, they dominate the search


market, but their numbers definitely were not as good as Google's, shares


falling by as much as 4% in extended US trading because of its first-ever


quarterly fall in revenue. Investors quarterly fall in revenue. Investors


were unnerved by the warning that the numbers are going to get worse.


In the third quarter, revenue fell by 0.7% down to $2.7 billion, but


the forecast is that it will fall by 4.6% in the October to December


period, the next quarter. So this is largely due to a plunge in


advertising after a medical scandal in China caused the government to


crack down on the sector. So earlier this year, a student with a rare


form of cancer accused Baidu promoting adverts that directed into


this treatment that did not work, and the student later died. Because


of the huge outcry around this, the government has basically enacted a


new law that bans online promotion of things like prescription


medication and tobacco on the internet. So that is hurting Baidu,


and it is going to hurt them for the next few quarters. Amazing that just


one company can do that, thank you for your time.


This is how the Asian markets fared, a very choppy session, pretty mixed,


and we can see the Nikkei is up a little bit, a bit of a weakening


when it comes to the yen. Markets have been open 42 minutes in Europe,


and it is a bit of a down day, some earnings really dragged down some of


these big indices across the world. Michelle Fleury is in Wall Street,


and she is talking about what is going on with economic growth in the


US. Investors and the presidential campaigns will be paying close


attention to the new GDP data on Friday morning. Overall, the US


economy has struggled to post any decent growth of late. In the second


quarter, the annual growth rate was a mere 1.4%. If the data for the


next quarter shows equally slow growth, that will be picked up on


Italy by Republican candidate Donald Trump, as evidence that the economy


is broken. -- most economists, however, are expecting a more


respectable growth rate of 2.5%. On the stock market, Hernanes season is


in full swing, the latest quarterly accounts are released by Exxon and


Chevron, as well as MasterCard. investment director


at Aberdeen Asset Management. We are going to do RBS in more


detail later, but a big week for banks. Western banks have done well,


revenues have been better than expected, a difficult time for


banks, low interest rates are not conducive to high profitability, so


they have produced better profits than expected. Bad debts have been


better than expected given the economies in which the banks have


been operating in have been doing better than we thought. Capital


position are strong, a good season so far. One big move in health care


and pharmaceuticals, mounting competition, continued pricing


pressures, yet we are seeing the biggest rise in the FTSE 100 in


pharmaceuticals. God of the company question is we're going to be


talking later about the papers, see you in a second! Still to come, our


economic screw will be clearing the fog of complexity hanging over this


week's biggest business stories, growth, global trade deals and a


little bit more and banking as well. Lets talk about Royal


Bank of Scotland. There are different ways of looking


at this story. On the one hand, the bank continues


to face a range of large conduct And it has swung to a ?469 million


loss in the third quarter, not to mention that it confirmed


that it will miss a 2017 deadline to sell off its Williams


Glyn branch network. hand, there are parts


of this business that Lets talk to James Hughes -


investors clearly liking In 2016 but other are doing


particularly well. When you eat, it is not necessarily an ideal time for


the banks to profitable. There are other areas within the retail side


of banking that are doing pretty well or RBS and why you are doing OK


today. We cannot look away from the downside, the five runs in aside for


litigation costs. They have lost Santander air and now they are


looking of them as well, so it is they have to sell the end of 2017


and the EU says they have to do it, but they say they cannot. What will


happen? You Santander would look to be buying this part of the business,


Williams and Glynn, and it will be a massive challenge for anyone who


comes in. I look at this as well. But it has to be done by the end of


2017 of them look like it will be done. I'm what is going on on the


tablet the tablet can do and to stay in here. They say no cheque-book was


involved. They were knowing there was no


They were knowing there was no cheque paid.


Our top story: An employment tribunal in London is expected


to rule today on whether Uber drivers are entitled


to basic workers' rights such as paid holiday,


The taxi app company regards them as self-employed


We're expecting to hear the verdict on this case around 2pm UK time.


Plenty more in the meantime on the website.


A quick look at how markets are faring.


UK 10-year gilt yield climbs to highest since Brexit vote.


Is this the eye of the storm for inflation?


We will be talking about that because there are some interesting


Lets turn our minds to the bigger picture, by which we mean global


We have got Andrew Walker in the studio with us. Justin Trudeau must


be upset, packing his bags and then being told it was not going to


happen. This is the agreement between the EU


and Canada to remove a lot of the trade barriers, an agreement that


both sides say it will be a boost to trade and incomes on both sides of


the Atlantic. It was supposed to be signed at a ceremony in Brussels


yesterday, but in the end Belgium could not consent to it because


there were objections from one regional parliament. What happened


in the end is that is now an agreement, Wallonia has accepted a


kind of interpreted the statement. A fudge? It is a bit of a fudge and we


have to see whether the Canadians are happy with what has been added


to this agreement. What does it mean for other trade agreements? It is


important because the Canada deal in relation to the EU was seen as


either a path breaker or a stalking horse for a much bigger deal which


is being negotiated with the US. It is really controversial politically.


I think what has been happening with this back and forth over Belgium is


an indication of the fact it will be really difficult to nail that


agreement down with the United States and even more difficult to


get ratified if it does happen. Another big story is what is going


on with global growth. We heard from some of the world's biggest


economies and we have had from France that we have got the OS a bit


later. How is the picture coming together in your view? They are


telling different stories. The French figure was a bit


disappointing, it was 0.2%. It was fairly decent growth from Spain,


0.7, although it was below the previous quarter. Spain still has


not got back to its precrisis levels of economic activity, that is going


back to 2008, although it is getting closer. The United States looks as


if it will pick up a little bit after a sluggish second quarter. It


is broadly in line with the general picture we have seen of the rich


countries continuing to recover after the financial crisis, but


still not getting any convincing momentum. The US economy has been a


political football in the run-up to the US elections and this is the


last amount of data we get beef for those voters go to the polls. How


will they be interpreted? I am sure they will be interpreted in two


different ways by two different parties. If we get a figure of 2.5%


as an annual figure, which is what we are expecting, President Obama


will say it is is a sign that we are getting ahead and will hand the bat


until Hillary Clinton. Donald Trump says we will be harmed. Donald Park


will say there is no growth. It is true there has not been much growth


and people on medium incomes have not seen the benefit to the extent


that they should have done. There is no question that Donald Trump is


In a moment we'll take a look through the Business Pages but first


here's a quick reminder of how to get in touch with us.


The live aid its way and they are with all that


are in all on the BBC web page. We are also on which you find on


We are also on which you find on Facebook.


What other business stories has the media been


Joining us again is Richard Dunbar, Investment Director


In. The idea that because inflation has been going up the bond markets


are going down. Bond markets have only one in one direction for


decades. It has been part of my career. They are very sensitive to


the levels of inflation. Rising bond yields to an extent a sign that


things are getting back to normal, but the way they go from the lower


levels they are focusing on at the moment. If you make a four and are


ideal and more from a safer's is that you, it is good news. There is


a story in the Financial Times and France's deepening problems in the


nuclear sector, threatening the potentially increase the bills of


customer prices. At the 18th of nuclear reactors? Energy system,


like a lot in the West, is creaking at the seams. We have had a lot of


debate on Hinkley Point and we are trying to add two our site, but


until that point is, we do rely on others. The Philippines president


says he is going to stop swearing because he was talking to God on an


aeroplane. There are a few global politicians who would do well to


stop swearing. He is very popular, but his manner is not one that is


There will be more business news throughout the day on the BBC Live


webpage and on World Business Report.


Weekend weather is looking very deep and it should they largely dry and


myself, do not expect a huge amount of


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