31/05/2016 BBC News at Ten


31/05/2016

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Tonight at Ten - the missed opportunities to save the little boy

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murdered by his mother and her partner.

:00:09.:00:11.

Liam Fee was found dead at his home in Fife after suffering two years

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of sustained physical and emotional abuse.

:00:15.:00:18.

His mother and her civil partner have been convicted of murder.

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There were several missed opportunities that could

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You can't call it anything other than a failure, can you?

:00:24.:00:27.

I think it's important that we allow the Significant Case Review

:00:28.:00:30.

to consider the circumstances of what's happened with

:00:31.:00:33.

Social workers have admitted that Liam's case had 'fallen off

:00:34.:00:38.

This city wouldn't be what it is without immigrants.

:00:39.:00:45.

Leave campaigners say that Britain outside the EU

:00:46.:00:50.

Special services in Orkney to mark the 100th anniversary of Jutland -

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the biggest naval battle of the First World War.

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Marcus Rashford - who's still a schoolboy -

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is named in England's final squad for Euro 2016.

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And the writer who brought us the Liver Birds -

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and many other television hits - Carla Lane - has died.

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Coming up in Sportsday on BBC News: We will have details of the Wales

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squad for Euro 2016, which includes Joe Ledley,

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even though he break his leg less than a month ago.

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Social workers in Fife have admitted that they lost sight of a vulnerable

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young boy who suffered two years of sustained abuse before

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being murdered by his mother and her civil partner.

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Liam Fee was found dead at home in March 2014.

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His mother, Rachel Fee, and her civil partner, Nyomi Fee,

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were both convicted of murder and will be sentenced next month.

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During the two years when Liam and two other boys

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were being physically and emotionally abused,

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This report by our Scotland correspondent Lorna Gordon contains

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Liam Fee, an affectionate two-year-old, witnesses said,

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who became increasingly withdrawn as he suffered unyielding, heartless

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His attackers, the two women who should have

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His mother, Rachel Fee, on the left, and her civil partner, Nyomi Fee.

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One neighbour said the couple went to great lengths to keep

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You didn't see Liam, you wouldn't know he existed.

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Did you see him out in the street n the buggy?

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Never saw him sit up and look or that.

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In police interviews, the two were asked about text

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messages they had sent which showed they were more concerned for each

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They were also questioned about the little boy's

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appalling injuries - the blow which ruptured Liam's heart

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and killed him, a fractured arm and broken thigh bone

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which would have left him in agony in the days before his death.

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At their house, police discovered evidence pointing to the prolonged,

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depraved abuse they had inflicted on two other young children.

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He had been locked naked in a makeshift cage made

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His hands bound behind his back with cable ties.

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On other occasions the couple tied the other young boy they abused

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to a chair and left him alone in a darkened room

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It's a horrific case, the abuse and neglect they had

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suffered and when Liam dies, one to have boys is blamed for his

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It is only through our detailed investigation with our partner

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services that we could tease out the truth and discredit Rachel

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Concerns were raised by people who feared Liam was being abused

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A childminder who looked after him said she was having sleepless nights

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She contacted the authorities, as did a woman who saw him covered

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And the staff at his nursery catalogued numerous

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Health visitors, social workers and the police all had

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contact with the couple, but Liam remained in their care.

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A committee representing those organisations has commissioned

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a Significant Case Review to examine the circumstances leading up

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There were a range of agencies involved in supporting Liam

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and his family and the details of that will be looked

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after through the Significant Case Review.

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You can't call it anything other than a failure, can you?

:05:01.:05:05.

I think it is important that we allow the Significant Case Review

:05:06.:05:07.

to consider the circumstances of what's happened with Liam.

:05:08.:05:10.

Rachel and Nyomi's Fee's callous indifference to Liam's suffering

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was said, one former friend, evident even after his death.

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There was like no emotion in them, they weren't bothered.

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They were sort of laughing and joking on that they were going

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Liam's father, Joseph Johnson, sobbed in court as the two

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women who killed his son were finally found guilty

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If Liam had lived, he would have been turning five and starting

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But instead, he will be remembered for these rare smiles which hid

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Lorna joins us outside the High Court in Livingston now.

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You mentioned this Significant Case Review. What things will it need to

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be considering in the weeks ahead? This independent investigation will

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look into the circumstances leading up to Liam's death. It will examine

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the files, the records, the policies and procedures that were in place at

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the time. It will interview the staff that were involved with the

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couple and with Liam and it will look closely at the evidence

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presented here at the High Court in Livingston that appears to show that

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time and time again concerns were raised about Liam's welfare and yet

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the little boy remained in the couple's care. One person I spoke

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to, who took the stand here, said that when she phoned the

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authorities, she was given the brush-off, told that her story, made

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to feel that her story wasn't taken seriously. This investigation will

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undoubtedly take a considerable amount of time. As to the women who

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carried out those appalling crimes, which culminated in Liam's murder,

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they will be sentenced in July. Lorna Gordon there with that case in

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Livingston. Leaving the European Union

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would allow Britain to remove VAT from energy bills,

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according to those campaigning They say it would help

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the poorest households. But those who favour Remaining said

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it was yet another example of as many as 20 uncosted policies

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from Vote Leave. Our deputy political editor,

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John Pienaar, has the latest on the day's campaigning

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ahead of the referendum Why don't all of you together

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take them all in?! You were a refugee once!

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No, I wasn't! Getting heated, this referendum -

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not always like today, they were waiting for

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Nigel Farage to show up. But reaching vital working-class

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voters, that's the aim There's no need, I know,

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there's no need. And for the many who aren't too

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excited yet, what about a promise Would any Chancellor spend over

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?1.5 billion on that Yes, we would,

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say the Leave campaign. At the moment, inside the EU,

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you can't vary VAT, and that means there is an unfair

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tax burden on the very poorest. I believe that if we leave

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the European Union, we should remove VAT

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on domestic fuel, and that would save

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households ?60 a year. And there he was, telling his own

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side just what they want to hear. All we want to do

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is make our own laws But what would be Leavers serve up

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to the country, given the chance, The other side have taken every

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morsel of policy Leavers have The bill is ?111 billion for each

:08:39.:08:42.

and every tempting item on the menu. The Stronger in Europe campaign say

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the Leavers are promising ?150 million extra on better

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railways, though no-one's They say tax cuts promised

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by the Leave side would cost nearly ?8 billion - if they took 2p

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off the basic tax rate - but there's been no specific pledge

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to do that. What we've heard over the last few

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weeks are people that want to leave suggesting that they would spend

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money on this and that, and it does add up to billions and billions

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of pounds of commitments. But as we've seen, with economists

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almost all in consensus that the economy would be hit,

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we have less revenue, I think that the Leave campaign do

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need to explain where this magic Take all the Leavers' ideas

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as promises and they're spending The claims and counterclaims

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are getting more aggressive, condemned as misleading

:09:33.:09:37.

or, worse, outright lies. The economic claims

:09:38.:09:40.

from the Remainers Now we'll see whether the tough

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warnings on migration and the promises

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of lower household bills outside the EU put the Leavers

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back in front. This city wouldn't be

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what it is without immigrants... Nigel Farage always gets a reaction,

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but the Leavers need to get out their vote,

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and he fires up the faithful The Remainers can't fall behind,

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so the volume's getting higher. Protesters in Northampton

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stopped him turning up, but it'll get noisier -

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there are 23 days to go. Our political editor,

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Laura Kuenssberg, is at Westminster. Notably different tack from the

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Leave campaign, cam paping on this one issue of energy today --

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campaigning on this one issue of energy today. I don't think there

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will be any let-up. They have saved one of their biggest pushes for

:10:37.:10:40.

tomorrow. The Out campaign will outline tomorrow how they actually

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want to control immigration. And what they will be setting out would

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be a change, a very big change for the country. While we have been in

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the EU, there's no limit on the numbers of people who can come and

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live and work here from the rest of the Union, whether from Poland,

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Portugal, Bulgaria, Romania or Italy. They will be outlining they

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want to end that automatic right so those people will no longer be able

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to come here if they wish. Instead, they will expand what's known as the

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points system. This is the immigration system that already

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applies to everyone else from the rest of the world. So, your skills,

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your circumstances are the things that determine whether you are

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allowed to come and live in the UK. Vote Leave tomorrow will announce

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that they want that system to apply to everyone, whatever country from

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around the world they come from. Instead of it being membership of

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the EU, or not that decides your fate, it will be universities,

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business, people in this country who determine who can come in. That

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would be a very major change for the country and something Vote Leave

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believes will get widespread public support. It is worth noting, how it

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appears to be that senior Tories like Boris Johnson and Michael Gove,

:11:58.:12:02.

who will appeal together tomorrow, are starting to enjoy announcing

:12:03.:12:09.

policies for a hypothetical post-Brexit Government, something

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that doesn't yet exist but given how this is all mashed up with Tory

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leadership ambition, it is not that hard to imagine what is on their

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minds. Laura Kuenssberg there, our political editor at Westminster.

:12:22.:12:23.

Special services have been held to mark the centenary of the biggest

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More than 6,000 British servicemen and 2,500 Germans died in the Battle

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of Jutland when the Royal Navy confronted the German fleet

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The Prime Minister David Cameron - and the President of Germany -

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joined relatives of some of those who lost their lives

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Our correspondent, Robert Hall, is there.

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Orkney had a long association with the Royal Navy. Today, the sound of

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bands and the glint of bayonets took islanders back to that historic past

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and to May 1916 when the British fleet sailed from here to meet the

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enemy in what it hoped would be a conclusive encounter. Today's

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ceremonies at the most northerly cathedral in the British Isles and

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on Hoy recalled the events of that day and the cost of a battle from

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which there was no clear victor. The old cemetery

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high above Scapa Flow, two navies march in memory of

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a dark day which cost them dear. These deep, sheltered

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waters were a perfect From here, Admiral Jellicoe

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led his Grand Fleet to deal Germany what he hoped

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would be a crippling blow. The armada included

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the dreadnoughts, huge battleships

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dubbed castles of steel, but the clash proved

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catastrophic and inconclusive. 25 ships had been

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destroyed and sunk. 8,000 men, British and German,

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would not be going home on. When I saw the Invincible,

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after the explosion, she was just, to me,

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one flaming letter V. There was a smell of cordite,

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a smell of gas from shells, At Lyness, the Princess Royal

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and the German president led tributes

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at the cross of remembrance. The last eyewitness to Jutland

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has long gone, but their memories

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are still being passed on. How long I was in the water I

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do not know. but not without hope

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of being picked up. The stretcher parties

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worked splendidly. The cries of the wounded and burned

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men were very terrible to listen to. I think it's important,

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just because we need to know that these people gave their lives

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for the country that we live in, and it might not have been the same

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if they hadn't done what they did. Eight bells, the end of a watch,

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the end of so many lives. So many men who still lie beneath

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the dark waters of Jutland Bank. 90 miles east, Denmark has marked

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this anniversary. Here, one personal story has taken an unexpected turn.

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What we are looking at is a digital version of the original church

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records... Bob has led a team trying to identify one British sailor

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buried in a local cemetery. Parish records have provided a name - Harry

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Gasson. It is very hard to see a 32-year-old man who has given his

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life... Harry was probably thinking he did his duty. You found him? We

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found him. 100 years to the day since his loss, patience and

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perseverance have paid off. Harry's family can finally say their

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farewells. Robert Hall, BBC News. A brief look at some

:16:21.:16:25.

of the day's other news stories. Iraqi forces are meeting strong

:16:26.:16:28.

resistance as they continue their efforts to retake the city

:16:29.:16:30.

of Fallujah, seized by the Islamic State

:16:31.:16:32.

militant group over two years ago. Iraqi commanders say their forces

:16:33.:16:34.

have now begun challenging the city's defences,

:16:35.:16:37.

but there's concern for the 50,000 is to close after administrators

:16:38.:16:39.

failed to find a buyer. The brand name and

:16:40.:16:55.

five concessions have been sold but there weren't any viable offers

:16:56.:16:59.

for the rest of the business. Pre-tax profits at Volkswagen

:17:00.:17:04.

fell by 20% in mainly due to the impact

:17:05.:17:06.

of the diesel-emissions scandal. It's faced high costs

:17:07.:17:12.

recalling and re-fitting cars, but still made nearly

:17:13.:17:14.

?2.5 billion before tax. There's been a further fall

:17:15.:17:19.

in maths skills Carla Lane - one of Britain's most

:17:20.:17:22.

successful television writers - She was born in Liverpool

:17:23.:17:25.

and rose to fame after creating including The Liver Birds,

:17:26.:17:30.

Butterflies and Bread. She was also a keen

:17:31.:17:33.

animal-rights activist. Our arts correspondent David Silito

:17:34.:17:35.

looks back at her life. The Mona Lisa -

:17:36.:17:40.

she never changes, does she? Of course she doesn't,

:17:41.:17:51.

that's how Leonardo painted her. Even the great scholars

:17:52.:17:54.

can't answer that one, Beryl. when she's soaking her feet

:17:55.:17:59.

in a bowl of hot water. Sandra, who was slightly posher

:18:00.:18:03.

than Beryl, was, to a degree, based

:18:04.:18:05.

on one of the Liver Birds' writers, had met at a writers' group

:18:06.:18:08.

and sent a script to the BBC. The next they knew,

:18:09.:18:16.

they were in a meeting. We thought we were in a dream,

:18:17.:18:19.

you know, because we'd done nothing in particular,

:18:20.:18:22.

and we both said, well, he said, well, you are women, write

:18:23.:18:25.

about two women living together. And we said, well, OK,

:18:26.:18:29.

we could do flat sharing. This young mother from Liverpool

:18:30.:18:32.

had a hit on her hands. a gentle comedy

:18:33.:18:37.

of middle-class midlife crisis, And following the inedible

:18:38.:18:46.

sponge was Bread. # Got to get up, grab the world

:18:47.:18:57.

by the world and shout... # I don't see why we have

:18:58.:19:00.

to have prayers... The Boswell family

:19:01.:19:04.

had laughs but no work, Dynamic, beautiful,

:19:05.:19:06.

she looked 16 all the time, and we loved her, and she would be

:19:07.:19:16.

there to help direct us and loved, loved us,

:19:17.:19:20.

because we loved her. As the years went by,

:19:21.:19:24.

Carla Lane increasingly devoted her time to animals,

:19:25.:19:32.

but her legacy was television, in which the laughs were centred,

:19:33.:19:35.

unusually, on the lives of women. Carla Lane, 30 years of some of

:19:36.:19:40.

TV's best loved bittersweet comedy. The writer Carla Lane,

:19:41.:19:46.

who has died at the age of 87. An inquiry into historical child

:19:47.:19:59.

sexual abuse in Northern Ireland relating to a former boys' home

:20:00.:20:01.

in East Belfast. At least 29 boys were thought

:20:02.:20:07.

to have been abused at Kincora Boys' Home between

:20:08.:20:10.

the late 1950s and the early 1980s. The inquiry is expected

:20:11.:20:13.

to look at claims that a paedophile network had links

:20:14.:20:17.

to the intelligence services. Our Ireland correspondent

:20:18.:20:20.

Chris Buckler has more details. The sexual abuse that took place

:20:21.:20:23.

at the Kincora Boys' Home But decades later,

:20:24.:20:27.

there are persistent claims that all the secrets of this house

:20:28.:20:35.

have not been revealed and that people in positions of power

:20:36.:20:38.

were involved in a cover-up. Today, Northern Ireland's Historical

:20:39.:20:42.

Institutional Abuse Inquiry began examining whether the police,

:20:43.:20:46.

MI5 and MI6, among others, knew the boys were being groomed

:20:47.:20:50.

at Kincora and abused. You will also hear me refer to,

:20:51.:20:55.

and you will read claims, of state-sponsored

:20:56.:21:00.

child prostitution, paedophile rings,

:21:01.:21:03.

blackmail and cover-ups. Many of the allegations

:21:04.:21:09.

relate to the 1970s, a time of turmoil

:21:10.:21:13.

in Northern Ireland. Some have alleged the security

:21:14.:21:17.

services knew of the abuse at Kincora and used that knowledge

:21:18.:21:20.

to blackmail or coerce, And it's been claimed

:21:21.:21:23.

that the late William McGrath, who was one of the paedophiles

:21:24.:21:28.

who ran the home, We were just little boys,

:21:29.:21:31.

and we just... Clint Massey was one

:21:32.:21:40.

of those abused by McGrath. somebody up there knew and said,

:21:41.:21:44.

"Right, we'll let this run." When you say the authorities,

:21:45.:21:52.

who do you mean? There have already been

:21:53.:21:55.

investigations and inquiries

:21:56.:22:00.

into what happened here at Kincora. However, many of those

:22:01.:22:05.

who were abused insist they have

:22:06.:22:13.

never revealed the full truth. Lives were scarred at Kincora,

:22:14.:22:15.

but this latest inquiry faces a significant challenge

:22:16.:22:18.

in finding the facts The US State Department

:22:19.:22:20.

has warned of the risk of terrorist attacks across Europe

:22:21.:22:28.

over the coming three months. It said tourist sites, restaurants,

:22:29.:22:31.

commercial centres and transport facilities

:22:32.:22:33.

were possible targets, such as the Euro 2016

:22:34.:22:34.

football tournament in France, Our North America editor,

:22:35.:22:38.

Jon Sopel, is in Washington. Jon, tell us more about the one and

:22:39.:22:51.

whether they are advising people to stay away from certain places or not

:22:52.:22:56.

travel. Huw, this is a travel alert, rather than a travel warning, which

:22:57.:23:01.

is altogether more serious, and the State Department says it does not

:23:02.:23:04.

have any credible, specific threat to warn people of, but it does go

:23:05.:23:09.

one, we are a leading US citizens to potential terrorist attacks

:23:10.:23:13.

throughout Europe, targeting major events, tourist sites, restaurants,

:23:14.:23:16.

commercial centres and transportation. In other words, they

:23:17.:23:20.

think there is a possibility that things like the Euro 2016, the Tour

:23:21.:23:25.

de France, even World Youth Day for the Roman Catholic Church in Poland

:23:26.:23:29.

could be targeted. Do they have a specific threat? No. Is there a

:23:30.:23:33.

widespread worry that there will be another terrorist attack in Europe?

:23:34.:23:39.

Yes. Jon, thank you for the update, Jon Sopel in Washington.

:23:40.:23:42.

Well, England and Wales have named their squads

:23:43.:23:44.

for the European Championships , which begin in ten days' time.

:23:45.:23:47.

who's recovering after breaking his leg four weeks ago.

:23:48.:23:50.

And England have selected the teenage striker Marcus Rashford

:23:51.:23:53.

just a few months after making his debut for Manchester United,

:23:54.:23:55.

as our sports correspondent Andy Swiss reports.

:23:56.:23:58.

COMMENTATOR: Rashford, lovely feet, brilliant goal.

:23:59.:24:03.

Barely three months ago, he was Marcus who?

:24:04.:24:06.

Now he's the teenager that everyone's talking about.

:24:07.:24:09.

But Marcus Rashford's journey began a long way from the limelight

:24:10.:24:13.

at Fletcher Moss Rangers in Manchester.

:24:14.:24:17.

His photos still adorn the dressing-room walls,

:24:18.:24:21.

and the man who coached him as a five-year-old

:24:22.:24:23.

He started scoring 12 goals in this particular game

:24:24.:24:28.

and started to set his team-mates up because he got bored.

:24:29.:24:32.

He was just kind of phenomenal on that pitch,

:24:33.:24:35.

and I described him as like the mini Messi of football.

:24:36.:24:40.

Here at this small, grass-roots club,

:24:41.:24:41.

But when he was eight, he came to the attention of another team

:24:42.:24:47.

just a few miles down the road - Manchester United.

:24:48.:24:52.

For all his promise, though, no-one was prepared for this.

:24:53.:24:55.

In February, on his Premier League debut, he scored twice.

:24:56.:24:59.

COMMENTATOR: Oh, would you believe it?!

:25:00.:25:01.

That started a remarkable rise, an England call-up,

:25:02.:25:09.

a goal on his international debut last week,

:25:10.:25:11.

I don't think it is a risk, I think he's done incredibly well.

:25:12.:25:16.

He offers something a little bit different.

:25:17.:25:19.

He's in very, very good form. Why wouldn't you take him?

:25:20.:25:21.

Rashford has already lifted one trophy this year - the FA Cup.

:25:22.:25:25.

The question now is whether a player still studying at sixth-form college

:25:26.:25:28.

can teach Europe a footballing masterclass.

:25:29.:25:31.

And you can find more details of the England and Wales squads

:25:32.:25:37.

With just over three weeks to the EU referendum on June 23rd,

:25:38.:25:51.

we're looking at some of the main issues for voters.

:25:52.:25:53.

Last night, we looked at the issues facing farmers.

:25:54.:25:55.

Tonight, for the latest in our series on the issues,

:25:56.:25:58.

has been to Peterhead in Aberdeenshire,

:25:59.:26:01.

one of Britain's biggest fishing ports,

:26:02.:26:03.

to hear from an industry that's fighting for a vote to leave.

:26:04.:26:10.

Fishing has been a way of life for generations

:26:11.:26:13.

on Scotland's north-east coast, but it's never been easy

:26:14.:26:16.

making a living at sea, and trawlermen say it has been made

:26:17.:26:21.

much harder by rules imposed by the European Union.

:26:22.:26:24.

Since the introduction of the Common Fisheries Policy,

:26:25.:26:27.

hundreds of boats have been scrapped, thousands of jobs lost.

:26:28.:26:32.

20 years ago, his harbour would have been packed with fishing boats -

:26:33.:26:35.

they would have been stacked three, four deep.

:26:36.:26:37.

Now the fleet is just a fraction of the size it used to be,

:26:38.:26:41.

that is all the fault of the European Union.

:26:42.:26:44.

because they feel they have lost control of their own waters.

:26:45.:26:51.

The Common Fisheries Policy sets quotas,

:26:52.:26:54.

telling fishermen exactly what they can and can't catch.

:26:55.:26:58.

as well as allowing equal access to the fishing grounds

:26:59.:27:04.

for boats from other EU countries, like France and Spain.

:27:05.:27:08.

Round about our coast is very, very rich fishing grounds,

:27:09.:27:13.

and the EU fishermen get really good use of it, you know.

:27:14.:27:16.

If we were to leave the EU, there would still be French

:27:17.:27:23.

and Spanish boats in the waters that you fish, wouldn't there?

:27:24.:27:25.

Yes, of course there would be, but they would be under our rules.

:27:26.:27:28.

I mean, we are not saying that there's got to be

:27:29.:27:31.

we might have to let some of them in to get access to their markets.

:27:32.:27:36.

But they would be under our rules and our quotas, and we would get,

:27:37.:27:41.

hopefully, a bigger share out of the fish that's in our waters.

:27:42.:27:44.

Right, three here, I've got three here at 65!

:27:45.:27:46.

Brisk business at the fish market in Peterhead doesn't ease

:27:47.:27:48.

the bitterness most of the fishing industry feel towards the EU.

:27:49.:27:52.

They're convinced they're getting a raw deal.

:27:53.:27:55.

But many admit the much-hated quotas have helped fish stocks

:27:56.:27:57.

and a few fear that could be put at risk.

:27:58.:28:04.

My fear of leaving the European Union would be

:28:05.:28:08.

that we end up with a European free for all, which would devastate

:28:09.:28:11.

the stocks and knock the industry back ten years while legal arguments

:28:12.:28:14.

were going on about who had access to where, what and how.

:28:15.:28:18.

You know, if we have a European fishing fleet that thinks

:28:19.:28:20.

they're going to get thrown out of the rich British fisheries,

:28:21.:28:24.

they could have a massive impact on destroying it

:28:25.:28:26.

before any agreement was put in place.

:28:27.:28:30.

As with so much of the EU debate, no-one really knows

:28:31.:28:33.

what the future of fishing would look like if there is a Brexit.

:28:34.:28:38.

What would it mean for the exports of fish to France and Spain,

:28:39.:28:44.

or the large number of EU immigrants

:28:45.:28:46.

who work processing the fish ready for sale?

:28:47.:28:52.

Whatever happens, the industry is convinced

:28:53.:28:53.

it has to be better than the status quo.

:28:54.:29:00.

This industry is not so much a job but a way of life,

:29:01.:29:03.

and to see your whole heritage and your whole way of life, I mean,

:29:04.:29:06.

devastated for a political project, we are ultimately being made to beg

:29:07.:29:09.

for our own fish from Brussels' table, and it's a national tragedy,

:29:10.:29:12.

what happened to the fishing industry,

:29:13.:29:14.

and it's what's happening to the country as a whole.

:29:15.:29:17.

British trawlermen feel they've been cheated out of fishing rights

:29:18.:29:22.

and they believe only by leaving the EU

:29:23.:29:28.

can they regain control of the waters

:29:29.:29:29.

As part of our series talking to people

:29:30.:29:37.

about how they'll vote in the EU referendum,

:29:38.:29:42.

and what's likely to influence their decision,

:29:43.:29:44.

tonight it's the turn of Samuel Gittings,

:29:45.:29:46.

I've been working here, Sheffield Caribbean Sports Club,

:29:47.:29:56.

I'm undecided one way or the other, because if you listen

:29:57.:30:06.

to the debates, some saying it'd be good if we leave,

:30:07.:30:09.

others saying it'd be better if we stay.

:30:10.:30:11.

At present, I'm not sure which way or who to really believe.

:30:12.:30:14.

Immigration, it's always been an issue.

:30:15.:30:22.

but we don't have all the skills for everything.

:30:23.:30:28.

Even if we leave, I don't think that we will close the borders

:30:29.:30:31.

to prevent other Europeans from coming in.

:30:32.:30:38.

A positive is that we can trade easier

:30:39.:30:40.

with the other European countries.

:30:41.:30:42.

more often than we join with the other European countries.

:30:43.:30:51.

So I can't see staying in Europe or leaving Europe

:30:52.:30:56.

is going to make any difference with our defence.

:30:57.:30:58.

It is an important decision, so you weigh up all the facts,

:30:59.:31:04.

all the benefits, the advantages, disadvantages,

:31:05.:31:09.

That was cricket groundsman Samuel Gittings,

:31:10.:31:23.

Newsnight is coming up on BBC Two. What to know what a Donald Trump

:31:24.:31:35.

residency would be like for us and the rest of the world? We will be

:31:36.:31:39.

talking to one of its foreign policy advisers. Is it going to be

:31:40.:31:44.

stability or stupidity? Join me on BBC Two, 11pm in Scotland. On BBC

:31:45.:31:47.

One, time

:31:48.:31:48.

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