The North Korean Defector BBC News Special

The White House hasn't released details but a draft called for a 30

day suspension on visas for people from countries including Syria and

Iraq has been put in place. In August, 2016, Thae Yong-ho became

one of the highest ranking officials ever to defect from North Korea. He

had been a diplomat for Tongan in London. He has been speaking to our

sole correspondent. I'm Steve Evans and this is Seoul,

one of the most prosperous and bustling cities in Asia. It is only

100 miles from Pyongyang, but in terms of atmosphere and attitude it

is 1 million miles away. This is now the home of Thae Yong-ho, the North

Korean diplomat who defected from London. He lives here in secret,

accompanied by a body guards, often in disguise. North Korea called him

human scum and that's because he was so central to North Korea's

diplomatic effort. I will be talking to him in a moment. He lived in

London with his family and the families of two other North Korean

diplomats in the embassy. Outwardly a bush while suburban house. Thae

Yong-ho escorted Kim Jong-un's brother to a rock concert in the

Royal Albert Hall. -- outwardly a Rouge was. He summed the praises of

socialism. And now in South Korea where I met him. He won't say how he

got here. The secret services of the United States or Britain, or South

Korea helped? Hao Wei you getting on in Seoul? But he did talk about how

his family turned him against the regime in Tom Young. -- how are you

getting on. Me and my family, my sons and my wife, did not come to

that kind of conclusion just in one day. At the first stage there is a

kind of ideological debate inside the family, especially between me

and my son is, when my son is entered the UK's university, the

education they received was quite different to what they got in North

Korea. It was something totally different. So at first they started

to ask me questions, why, when they learned history in high school, then

my son after school he came to me and asked which is right, about the

Second World War, the First World War. So there was quite a different

explanation about the same thing in the UK and North Korea. So first of

these questions started to come up to me and then these questions

pushed me into a very difficult situation, e-commerce as a father I

have to tell the truth. -- because as a father. And if I tell the truth

then my explanation would be quite different to what the North Korean

regime, you know, so far brainwashed. But as a father I can't

tell them liars, so I started to tell them the truth. Meanwhile, the

environment of my sons was a little bit difficult for my sons to cope

with. For instance, when my son had long hair, then his friends may ask

questions like, aren't you afraid of being arrested by Kim Jong-un

because you have long hair? In North Korea, if anyone has long hair, that

is the subject of these kinds of questions. They always make my son

is very difficult when they mingle with British friends. And his

friends asked my son questions like why there is no internet, why North

Korea and are forbidden to access internet. My sons asked me, wiry

doesn't the North Korean regime allowed the internet? These very

simple questions. I have to tell them the long story wire, why are

politically. So these kinds of questions and debate is started

inside my family. At that time I thought my sons deserve the truth.

But the truth is very dangerous, isn't it? Because if you were then

putting the party line out in public, but the truth to your

sons... There was a danger that your sons were going to say, my dad

doesn't believe all that stuff, and then your life was in danger. That's

right. I always have to remind my son that they should keep what I

told them in their mind. They should not tell anyone. As a diplomat, I

have to pretend to be loyal to the regime. So all these things put me

in a very difficult condition inside the family and, meanwhile, I learnt

that since my sons knew the truth it would be very difficult for them in

their future to survive in North Korea. Was it gradual? It was a very

long process. Because a year ago even you are going to public

meetings with the Communist Party and singing the praises of Kim

Jong-un and socialism. So did you believe it when he said that? No,

because actually to be honest my doubt on the North Korean regime and

North Korean society started even in the late 1990s. Making the decision

was that I was lucky to bring both of my sons to London, because

diplomats of North Korea should leave one of his children in

Pyongyang, to abuse this to a love between parents and children as a

kind of tool to control the diplomats. But I was lucky. You

still have family in North Korea. Will you ever see them again, will

you ever talk to them again? You have any indication about how they

feel? So far now iambic target of the organisation by the North Korean

regime. -- now I am the target. I am sure that my relatives, my brother

at and sisters, family, by now are all sent to either removed, closed

areas or prison camps. So that really breaks my heart. If you could

imagine your rather shouting at you, why did you do this to me? --

brother. Why did you put me in this place? What would you say? That is

really, you know, a question which I do not like to even think about.

Yes. But that's why I am very much now determined to do everything

possible to pull down the North Korean regime, in order to save not

only my family members but the whole North Korean people from slavery.

The think you will ever see your brother again? I am absolutely sure

and this is my dream, to walk back to my hometown. Lots of people

outside say there is a prison camp system in North Korea, Gulag system.

The regime in Pyongyang emphatically denies that. What's the truth of it

as you see it? All North Korean people know that there is a prison

camps. It is common knowledge inside North Korea. And it is the kind

of... One part of everyday life in North Korea, that if you commit any

crime is which is the threat to the system, then you will be sent to

these prison camps. Thousands of families in Pyongyang were all sent

to the prison camps. Not one or two, thousands of families were sent to

prison camps. There is a new president in Washington with a very

different tone and many policy. And your former country is much closer

to having nuclear weapons. What do you think should be done? The Trump

administration should not acknowledge the status of North

Korea as a nuclear power, because Kim Jong-un and the regime want to

achieve a kind of compromise between North Korea and America. So the

American administration should not fall in this trap. Don't do deals?

To do deals, and they should continue to push the sanctions and

they should continue the concerted effort to sanction North Korea, the

North Korea should give up the nuclear weapons programme itself.

If, when, Kim Jong-un gets the bomb properly, and missiles to deliver,

is he capable of pressing that Hutton and destroying Los Angeles?

Kim Jong-un knows quite well that nuclear weapons are the only

guarantee for his rule. Kim Jong-un, I think, will press the button of

this dangerous weapon when he thinks that his rule and his dynasty is

threatened to collapse. He would destroy Los Angeles, even though the

retaliation would kill him? Yes, because he knew that if... He lose

the power, then it is his last day. So he may do anything... To attack

Los Angeles, because once the people know that in any way he will be

killed, then you can do anything. That is the human beings' normal

reaction. How do you assess Kim Jong-un? He is sometimes painted

outside as a buffoon, as not very bright, and sometimes as well as

being very devious. How do you assess him? You know, North Korean

society can only be held in place by idolising or raising the leader as a

god. So we have to remove the image and the process of idealisation of

Kim Jong-un insight North Korean society. He rules by fear, clearly.

But also I watched three girls in Pyongyang. They didn't know they

were being watched by me. They went up to a statue of his father and

grandfather and they came away with moist eyes. So there's more than the

going isn't there? Explained this complexity.

the children, from the age of three, are brainwashed to bow in front of

the statue of the Kim family, and then when they have lunch or dinner

in kindergarten, they were taught to thank, for the meal. So North Korean

people are growing up in this kind of, you know, idolising process. So

I think the tears which you have seen during your stay in Pyonyang

may be, might be, the true feeling. But the majority of the ruling class

in North Korea, high officials or elites, they now learnt that this

kind of a red entry system has nothing to do with the true

communism -- hereditary. The Kim family only built North Korea for

the Kim family's prosperity alone. And now that people, most of the

people, and especially the elite group, learned that the current

system is nothing but only serves the Kim family alone. That is the

point. So I am sure that one day those elites will turn their back on

Kim Jong-un, and they will also rise up, together with a popular

uprising, yes. In this country, in South Korea, there is sometimes talk

of decapitation. In effect, assassinating Kim Jong-un, if that

were possible. What do you think of that? I think that is unlikely.

Because, you know, even North Korean people do not know the whereabouts

of Kim Jong-un. Myself, I've never seen car, even, in Pyonyang city.

Even the high officials in North Korea do not know where is his

office, where is his house, no. He is a kind of leader in the air.

Whenever he visits some places, or whenever he holds some meetings, it

is already, you know, preset. The process, and even myself, and even

the high officials don't know where he is. Let me talk about how North

Korean diplomats work. What were the kinds of things that you would do to

raise money, or just to please the regime? I'm thinking you escorted

Kim Jong-un's rather to an Eric Clapton concert. Tell me about that,

what happened? Kim Jong-un's brother is a really good musician, at my

impression. He plays guitar very well, and he actually... Actually he

has met Eric Clapton, you know. He watched Eric Clapton's performance

twice in London, and whenever he was at that, you know, in the Albert

Hall to watch Eric Clapton, I can see the tears, even, in his eyes.

And he is only interested in music, nothing else. I took a good many

places, like Parliament Square, you know, Trafalgar Square, and all the

nice, you know, top ten sites and places. But he never asked even a

single question, you know, about these other places, or even the

history, about Britain. He is not interested at all. So I kept on

telling him this and that, you know, and I soon learnt that he is not

interested in those, you know, sightseeing, or history, or

important people. He is only interested in music. Eric Clapton.

Eric Lupton. Did you do anything that you are ashamed of, and did you

do anything criminal? Did you break the law, British law -- Clapton. As

a diplomat of the DPRK? No. I didn't break any law. Not one to do with

making money for the regime, or raising money for the regime?

Because there are all kinds of stories that DPRK diplomats have to

engage in crime to raise money for Pyonyang. Yes, but not all

countries, you know, allow that kind of thing. For instance, the North

Korean diplomats in Europe, you know, especially like Britain and

France where there is a really high level of securities, you know, and

also with the intelligence services, it is really dangerous for not only

North Korean diplomats, or even the other foreign diplomats as well, to

do this kind of illicit activities. In terms of law, we didn't pay, for

instance, the condition charges, you know, the parking fees, North Korean

members in London. So far I think the outstanding parking

accommodation and parking fines are around, to my memory, so around

?100,000. What do you miss about Britain? Your life in Britain seemed

to me to be very English and lots of ways. You played tennis in a rather

nice suburban tennis club. What do you miss about your life that? I

really miss that kind of, you know, life, you know, especially in

dealing. And even now I am really sorry for not saying goodbye to my

tennis club -- Ealing. You know, the members, because they are really

nice, and you know, gentle. And so, if possible, I want to say, you

know, the official goodbye to my old tennis club members. We have been

the member of this club for eight years. My youngest son even joined

this club when he was at the age of eight, you know. And we had a

really, really wonderful coach that, you know? He was an old man and he

thought all members of my family had to play tennis. Me, my kids, my

wife. You know, so the whole tennis club members were just one family

members. And we had... Really still miss English, the spring, the

autumn, where you have this wonderful tennis. So now I really

want to say goodbye and thank you to all my club members. Finally, how do

you think Kim Jong-un will end his days? Is he going to die peacefully

in his own bed? No. Or how? I'm sure that Kim Jong-un regime will one day

collapse by people's uprising. Thank you very much. Thank