London Tower Fire: Part 1 BBC News Special


London Tower Fire: Part 1

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temperatures rise once again, turning warmer, with parts of

:00:00.:00:00.

south-east England by Sunday near 30 Celsius. That is the latest

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forecast, back to you. Thank you very much. Before we end

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the programme, let's go to one of the community centres that has been

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opened to help people who have lived here and lost everything, lost their

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homes. Lucy Manning is there. What is so

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striking is that there still seem to be so many people, missing so many

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people being searched for? Unfortunately, that is right. You

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walk around the streets here today and it goes without saying that

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there is a real sense of grief. Everybody is talking about who they

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know that was in the block and where they might be now. Frankly, not

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everybody is accounted for and they expect that there will be more

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deaths. I have spent most of the afternoon and all morning in the

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community centre behind me, in the basement in the hall, tables are set

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out. Families at each table. Some of the families are telling me they

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felt very lucky. They have lost everything, their homes, all of

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their possessions, but they had at least made it out alive. On other

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tables, families more quiet, on phones, trying to speak to relatives

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that they had sent around the hospital is looking for other

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relatives. We kept popping back and saying, any news? There was a sad

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shake of the head. They just want information. Unfortunately, that is

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the one thing that there isn't at the moment. Along with the grief and

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sadness, there is also anger. Speaking to some of the residents,

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they are some of the same people that raised concerns, as they think,

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about the safety in the tower block. The residents are angry that nothing

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was done and a fire happened, that this has happened to them. Also, a

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real sense of community here. People are helping out. There has been an

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amazing response at the community centre. People here, I think, it has

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been a very, very difficult day for them. People on the street want

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answers. It is the one thing that can't be given to them. I think it

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is true, very unfortunately, that some of the people that are missing,

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perhaps many of them, the death toll is going to rise and we will not

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have any good answers for them at all. Lucy Manning, thank you. What

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we know now is that at least 12 people have died. Dozens have been

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injured. The death toll, we are being told, is expected to rise. We

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will have an -- continuing coverage throughout the afternoon.

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block which you can see smoke is still coming from the building on

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the 15th floor. You can see flames depending on when the wind turns

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this way, flames and letting the side of the building, which is why

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we've been told to wear these facemasks, because there is debris,

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cert and dirt on the air. Their rockets flying around, this is

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directly from the building itself. These are on the streets. They have

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taken days -- it will take days to clear up. A bird's eye view of the

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building, this level of devastation has been caused, the fire began at

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1am this morning, and it has claimed lives. Currently 12 lives is the

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official total, but the Metropolitan Police tell us that number is likely

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to go up. Reporters have been on the ground and around the area all day

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from early this morning. We will be hearing from them later in the

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programme. We will hear from Karl Mercer at a nearby mosque which

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opened its doors to help those in need tonight, who were evacuated

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from the tower block itself. Alice has a different vantage point of the

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one I've got now. Firstly, I think we should hear from those affected

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most. People who tonight are counting themselves lucky to escape

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alive. People who lost their homes and in many cases, people who have

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lost just about everything they own... Today is the 14th of June...

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2am, I was woken up by the siren noise.

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We ran downstairs, it took us a solid four minutes to get out,

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just as I was entering the ground floor, the fire

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I looked down and there was fire on the left side.

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Every minute, it was getting worse and worse.

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People were in the building after an hour.

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The people screaming, the worst thing.

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People were calling out and asking what floor they were on.

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There were people on the tenth and 11th floors, where

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they were actually using the fire hoses, and they saw people waving

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from the windows and a woman screaming that she had

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Already, she's out, but her brother and wife

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We don't know if they are safe or not.

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For me, the one image that sticks in my mind was seeing a family

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waving what appeared to be a towel for around an hour.

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There was a helicopter coming about 400 metres from their window,

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For me, the thing I took from this was how agonising must that have

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been for that family, when they were there.

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We watched them stop moving from the street.

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This is one of my main concerns about living in a tower block.

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On Saturday, we did have the fire brigade team come around and speak

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They told us that the protocol was to close your door

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because the fire door will withstand the heat for a duration of time.

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But I think what has happened is they haven't understood

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that the fire had spread around the building.

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That is wrong information for that building and

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If you are staying in your house, you could still be trapped.

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If you had stayed... If I listen to the advice given to me by the fire

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brigade and by the TMO management team, we could be dead. You've got

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family on the 18th floor, and you spoke to them last night? What were

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they saying? Smoke. They couldn't get out because of the smoke. I

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asked... I don't know what I would do if I was him. He just stayed in

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the room, hoping the fire brigade would get up there. That is what

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they were told? Yeah, they stayed in there to follow the instructions.

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Not much you could do from the 80th floor and they cannot fly. -- 18th.

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He was like an older brother, always looking after me. What is the

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latest? Apparently it has been confirmed that he has passed, due to

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the chemicals from the building, in the hospital... I just... I don't

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know what to think. The moment that building went up, how, why? There

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are a lot of questions to be asked. The

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voices of those affected by the tower block fire in the early hours

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of the morning. I noticed as soon as I came to the area this afternoon to

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see the fire myself, people were approaching me immediately and

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asking if we had heard from their loved ones,

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one of those people is Ray Fiasco, tell us about them? A good friend of

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mine. Her and her mother, the last we heard from them was at 3:30am.

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Did you hear from them on the phone? No, they were messaging a friend on

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Twitter. As soon as he heard, he got there and from 2:30am to 3:30am,

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they lost contact. I woke up to a phone call saying to check the news,

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Khadija is in there. I could not get through. I turned to social media

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and I thought, you know what? Maybe someone has seen her. You are

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handing out leaflets in the area. All the best of luck. I hope you do

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find Khadija. That is typical of a number of people in the area. It

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seems to me, London is a huge city with millions of people inside. When

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it comes to a tragedy, Londoners behave like one community, as you

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would expect in a small village somewhere, of people coming together

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and supporting those in need. Karl Mercer is in a mosque a short

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distance from where I am now. He's been looking to see how people are

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doing just that, and coming together. Karl? Yes, we've seen it

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across west London all afternoon, people coming with bags and bringing

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food. Here we are, just about half a mile from the scene. You can see

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just how busy it is. If you take a walk inside, when we arrived at 12

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o'clock this afternoon, there was hardly anything here. Hardly anybody

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here. But, take a look at what has happened since. This room has been

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full, a lot of water and food from here has already been taken to those

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in need. If we swing to the other side of the room, we've got a lot of

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clothes donated and a lot of bedding as well. As I say, it is something

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that's been happening across West London this afternoon. People have

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been approaching us as well and offering us assistance. We are now

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joined by the chief executive of the cultural centre and mosque here.

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Abdul-Rahman Kassig Ede, a very difficult day for you and many

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worshippers he would also have suffered? Yes, people worried about

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their loved ones. People do not know what happened to their loved ones.

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They do not have any information but in the meantime, we are doing our

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best to offer all the help people need. We've been inundated with the

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generosity of the community. People have called us from as far as Luton

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and Gatwick to offer us assistance, supplying us with food and blankets.

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And it has been very personal for the cultural centre and mosque as

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well, some of your staff have family and many of the worshippers would

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have worshipped here? Yes, some worshippers have family in the

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building and don't know what happened to them. Worshippers as

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well. It is a difficult situation we are in but we are trying to cope by

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providing emotional and material support the community needs, as a

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centre. We have deleted there. Thank you very much. As you can see, the

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effort continues here -- we have to leave it there. It's been a

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difficult day for people who have been losing their homes, and our

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correspondence Catherine Carpenter has been finding out their stories

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of the day. Thank you very much. A neighbour brings 88 of Mary Dennis a

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chair, she's been awake since the early hours when she fled her home

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afraid and confused. I heard banging on my door, bang, bang. I did not

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get up. But what happened, when they banged it and I got up... They said

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to evacuate out, out. There is fire. I rang in my nightie. There was

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enough screaming, children screaming, everybody screaming.

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Another neighbour offers food and water. Thiago says he needs to keep

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busy so he does not dwell on what he heard and what he saw. I could hear

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people from the tower, there were a lot of casualties, and they said

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people were jumping from the building... Overnight, Saint Clement

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's Church became his century. Here and at every rescue centre,

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donations have flooded in all day -- sanctuary. We are Londoners.

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Everybody is a London. We had to help each other. I've been here all

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morning. I have older clothes for older people this time... I will

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help you. Thank you, darling. This morning it was kids clothes. I've

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seen loads of locals coming down. This mosque counts many Grenfell

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Tower residence among its worshippers. Today they were sorting

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clothes and cooking, for those breaking fast tonight or in need

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after the longest of days. Other members of the community took people

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into their homes. At least three families crammed into this terrace

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in the early hours. My son is asthmatic and was having an asthma

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attack. As soon as she saw us, this woman took as an here. If not, we

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would have been out all night. Also taken in, this four-month-old. Her

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bed for the night is a stranger's sober while her mother waits for

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news of missing friends. -- sofa. Catherine Carpenter, BBC London

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news. As you can see, the charity effort

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continues and will continue late into the night. My colleague has

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been out today talking to people living in the area about their fears

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of living in high-rise blocks. That's right. I've been here all

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day. I am now on the balcony of a low-rise block, just on Bromley

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Road, as you can see right in front of the Grenfell Tower. I've been in

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the area all day, speaking to people. Some local residents and

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some from outside the area, who have come to offer their help and

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support. I've also been speaking to firefighters, I spoke to some this

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morning coming off shift. They've been here for 12 hours. They told me

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when they arrived at this fire it was too dangerous to go in. Debris

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was falling. It was only when riot police were able to make a tunnel

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out of shields that they were able to enter the building. As you can

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imagine, people living in this block saw exactly what happened next door,

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as well as people living in all of these tower blocks. There are plenty

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around here. The fire raises questions about the safety of

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London's tower blocks. In 2009 there were recommendations made after a

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similar fire in Southwark, but critics say some of the

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recommendations haven't been followed, and lessons have not been

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learned. Here is our correspondence Tom Edwards. Knowing full well, when

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you are watching this that people are not going to be OK, that this

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isn't going to be OK, this isn't going to end well... Yeah, it's

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heartbreaking. REPORTER: Angela lives on the 90th

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floor in the block opposite Grenfell Tower. After last night, she is now

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extremely concerned about the fire risk in her own building -- 19th

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floor. What came to mind at 3am this morning is what is the security

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protocol in this building, if something similar were to happen?

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What would I do and where would my parents go? How would we leave

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quickly? This fire raises questions about London's housing stock. The

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last major fatal fire was in Southwark in 2009 where six people

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died. The coroner made recommendations,

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there should be clarity of residents should stay put or get out.

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Councils should retrofit sprinklers and simplify building regulations

:17:18.:17:20.

about what can be changed. The chances of getting a fire are very

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low... In 2010 the London assembly also highlighted concerns about the

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capital's high-rise housing stock. We found that there was a relatively

:17:31.:17:35.

low risk of actually having a fire in a tall loading. Really, you are

:17:36.:17:40.

fairly safe but the problem is if there is a fire, advice is often not

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given about the right way to behave and information not being given to

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tenants by landlords and councils not giving advice to landlords.

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According to city hall, 8% of London's population live in

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high-rise flats, blocks over 11 stories tall.

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Lessons have not been learned. Today is an absolute tragedy and it is

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caused by the lack of proper regulation of refurbishment

:18:39.:18:40.

standards. The government have been pressed for a number of years by the

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all-party and to committee on safety to do a review of the building

:18:46.:18:51.

regulations to test the integrity of the tools that are used in

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refurbishment and they have continually put this off. The

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government says that work is still ongoing and checks will now be

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carried out on blocks going through similar refurbishment. But there is

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now anger and questions. What happened in luck in our house, after

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it had been refurbished, the verve furbish and had of the fire -- the

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refurbishment had compromised the fire compartmentalised age and and

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it didn't compartmentalised. It seems like that is what has happened

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in Grenfell Tower and people lost their lives. There has been a lot of

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talk around external cladding, making sure that tower blocks of

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fire proofed inside properly and compartmentalised, meaning that a

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buyer should not be spread from within a flat where it breaks out,

:19:46.:19:49.

enabling the fire brigade to get there and deal with the incident.

:19:50.:19:54.

It's difficult to see why this has happened and there are no excuses

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for it. This man also lives in the block opposite. He hasn't been able

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to contact a friend who lived in Grenfell Tower. Where the claims

:20:04.:20:08.

are, it if you move to the right, there is a gap there by the smoke,

:20:09.:20:15.

that is where she used to live. While it isn't clear why this fire

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happened, it is very clear that safeguards failed.

:20:20.:20:28.

As we have been hearing, this tower block, Grenfell Tower, underwent a

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?10 million refurbishment that was completed last year and tonight, the

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fire minister has said they will be carrying out emergency

:20:37.:20:43.

investigations on every tower block undergoing similar refurbishment.

:20:44.:20:47.

Part of the refurbishment included new cladding so questions are now

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being asked about the risks posed by that cladding as Gareth Burbidge

:20:51.:20:57.

reports. Arnold tiling is a fire safety expert and he's about to

:20:58.:21:05.

carry out a test. The reason he is doing this is because he has a

:21:06.:21:09.

theory about why the fire spread so rapidly at the Grenfell Tower. And

:21:10.:21:13.

it's to do with the material that may have been used when cladding was

:21:14.:21:19.

fitted. The actual rigid board installation that I believe is most

:21:20.:21:24.

likely to have been used is made from the same material,

:21:25.:21:28.

polyurethane. I am now setting fire to this and this is the rate at

:21:29.:21:33.

which it burns. That is very, very rapid and this is a typical material

:21:34.:21:38.

used for insulating the external part of buildings. This test was put

:21:39.:21:44.

out easily but he thinks terms of similar materials could have quickly

:21:45.:21:48.

burned out of control. A baby that I have is that the building has been

:21:49.:21:53.

clad with a flammable insulation material on the exterior. Of course,

:21:54.:21:58.

there is no official statement yet on the cause of the fire and the

:21:59.:22:03.

reason for its rapid spread. But three years ago, at a safety

:22:04.:22:08.

conference, Arnold tiling publicly warned that cladding high-rise

:22:09.:22:12.

buildings could end in disaster and now he fears he may have been proved

:22:13.:22:18.

right. Yes, it looks typical of a cladding related fire on the

:22:19.:22:23.

exterior of the property. All the external cladding has completely

:22:24.:22:26.

gone, which is what you would expect if you have got flammable materials.

:22:27.:22:31.

The principle of the design of the cladding is that it's there to allow

:22:32.:22:36.

rain to effectively get in and run down that cavity. The problem is

:22:37.:22:40.

that it will also allow fire to spread up and what will happen is it

:22:41.:22:45.

will actually create a path for the fire to spread and encourage the

:22:46.:22:49.

fire to spread faster and more intensely. A spokesperson for the

:22:50.:22:53.

contractors who completed the refurbishment last year said it met

:22:54.:22:58.

all required building control by regulation and health and safety

:22:59.:23:04.

standards. -- by regulation and health and safety standards. Another

:23:05.:23:10.

company involved said it would not be appropriate to comment or for

:23:11.:23:15.

others to speculate on any aspect of the fire or its courses in advance

:23:16.:23:18.

of the enquiries. At this time, the company said it was not aware of any

:23:19.:23:25.

link between the buyer and -- between the fire and the exterior

:23:26.:23:32.

cladding. Back here across the road from Grenfell Tower, I am joined by

:23:33.:23:36.

Jim Fitzpatrick, MP, a former firefighter himself, and Archbishop

:23:37.:23:42.

Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury. What we are seeing is a

:23:43.:23:50.

real coming together of people, of communities, Archbishop, helping

:23:51.:23:54.

each other? It has been the most extraordinary sight around here.

:23:55.:23:59.

People filling out churches but people from all faiths using the

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church buildings, using holes, using whatever centres they can find,

:24:06.:24:10.

working together, huge teams of volunteers together working

:24:11.:24:15.

effectively. As someone said to me earlier, it's the community of

:24:16.:24:18.

Christ in hospitality, in partnership with everybody else and

:24:19.:24:23.

everyone can just get stuck in. And then of course this extraordinary

:24:24.:24:26.

work by the emergency services. I've been with them, talking to them, and

:24:27.:24:33.

just exhaustion written across their faces. Stress and yet courage. And

:24:34.:24:38.

this is what is becoming typical of London, the way people come

:24:39.:24:40.

together. They forget their differences. Ed Smith -- its

:24:41.:24:47.

mosques, synagogues, all areas taking in people as well as

:24:48.:24:52.

churches. Absolutely. As we have seen, and we saw in Manchester as

:24:53.:24:56.

well, everyone coming together when there is a tragedy on this scale and

:24:57.:25:01.

just an outpouring of the most extraordinary love and generosity

:25:02.:25:07.

and people just getting stuck in. Putting their own interests aside.

:25:08.:25:12.

It's incredible. Jim Fitzpatrick, you were firefighter yourself. What

:25:13.:25:16.

were your first thoughts when you heard about the fire? I turned on my

:25:17.:25:23.

TV and saw the pictures coming from here and I was totally shocked and

:25:24.:25:27.

images. There was awareness growing images. There was awareness growing

:25:28.:25:34.

of a state that thought, where some people say they were told to stay

:25:35.:25:41.

put in the tower block in case of a fire. What do you say about that?

:25:42.:25:44.

That is normally advice given to people because every flat is

:25:45.:25:49.

self-contained and the fire doors, if they are up to specification,

:25:50.:25:53.

should give an hour to everyone inside. You normally advice would be

:25:54.:25:57.

to stay indoors, the fire brigade turn up and they can take control

:25:58.:26:00.

and make a decision. Clearly when they turned up here at 1am, the fire

:26:01.:26:06.

had a hold, the rapidity of spread meant that advice changed and

:26:07.:26:09.

firefighters were trying to get people out of the building. There is

:26:10.:26:13.

different advice for different circumstances, but normally it is

:26:14.:26:17.

safer to stay in the building, inside the flat you worrying if the

:26:18.:26:21.

building does catch fire until you are advised by the emergency

:26:22.:26:25.

services what you should do. What is your thought on how we can stop

:26:26.:26:29.

something like that happening again? We can stop this happening.

:26:30.:26:34.

Sprinkler systems would have prevented this fire going further

:26:35.:26:37.

than one room and one flat. The tower block in Southwark where six

:26:38.:26:44.

people died in 2009, recommendations were made and we have been asking

:26:45.:26:52.

for a review since 2013, asking the government when they are going to

:26:53.:26:56.

issue the review of standards, because buildings are different now

:26:57.:27:01.

from when this was built in 1974. London's skyline is showing

:27:02.:27:04.

different structures, different materials. There are different risks

:27:05.:27:08.

and we need to stay ahead of the curve and that is not what has

:27:09.:27:12.

happened here. We could have prevented this. What is your advice

:27:13.:27:15.

to people who are still looking for missing loved ones this evening? Get

:27:16.:27:21.

help, be alongside with other people, don't be by yourself,

:27:22.:27:25.

because the pressure is so extreme. Find someone, there are so many

:27:26.:27:29.

people around, go to one of the community centres, one of the

:27:30.:27:35.

churches and say, I am looking. There are grief counsellors,

:27:36.:27:38.

doctors, all sorts of people. They will help you. Don't be by yourself.

:27:39.:27:43.

That's the main advice. Secondly, to know that the whole country is

:27:44.:27:47.

standing at your side and grieving and worrying with you. Archbishop,

:27:48.:27:52.

that is good advice. We are sadly out of time. For those people who

:27:53.:27:57.

are looking for loved ones, the Metropolitan Police have opened up a

:27:58.:28:01.

dedicated line to help those people. It's on your screen now. It's the

:28:02.:28:06.

Metropolitan Police casualty bureau, oh 800 0961 26 -- too creepy.

:28:07.:28:25.

Welcome to west London. This is the scene this evening, still

:28:26.:28:35.

smouldering, home to some 600 people, 24 floors of accommodation

:28:36.:28:41.

now reduced to a black and Hulk. Through the day we have heard all

:28:42.:28:44.

sorts of accounts from residents. Spare a thought for those who left

:28:45.:28:49.

the building last night in the early hours of the morning, coming out of

:28:50.:28:53.

their apartments into thick smoke and coming through today knowing

:28:54.:28:58.

they have lost their worldly possessions and tonight they must

:28:59.:29:02.

find emergency accommodation. It has been a very difficult day for the

:29:03.:29:06.

residents here, but at least the community have rallied around them.

:29:07.:29:10.

We will hear stories of how people are helping. Accommodation, showers,

:29:11.:29:14.

really helping in any way they can after what people have been three.

:29:15.:29:18.

In the last short while, we have heard from the London Fire Brigade.

:29:19.:29:21.

We know the firefighters have made it to the top of the building. That

:29:22.:29:26.

doesn't mean they have done a research of the upper apartments but

:29:27.:29:29.

they have managed to get to the top to assess the situation up there.

:29:30.:29:33.

Structurally, it is still standing but obviously there are structural

:29:34.:29:37.

engineers here, taking a view of the property as it continues to burn and

:29:38.:29:43.

ensuring that the firemen who are working around it, and there are

:29:44.:29:46.

still plenty of them here, that they are safe. There is plenty of debris

:29:47.:29:50.

and masonry still falling off the building, so it is a very unsafe

:29:51.:29:54.

atmosphere. You will see from the pictures of the building that they

:29:55.:29:57.

have managed to get a hydraulic crane up. They are targeting water

:29:58.:30:01.

into the centre of the building remotely said that they don't have

:30:02.:30:04.

to put officers in danger's way. Let's speak to someone who has been

:30:05.:30:06.

involved today. His aunt was in the building last

:30:07.:30:15.

night. Did you manage to get out safely? Where was she? Luckily, she

:30:16.:30:20.

managed to get out safely. She was on the second floor of the Grenfell

:30:21.:30:24.

Tower. When I arrived at 1am, the whole of one side of the facade was

:30:25.:30:29.

engulfed in flames. I have been there ever since. I haven't at the

:30:30.:30:33.

site, haven't gone home yet. Within four hours, the whole building had

:30:34.:30:38.

gone up. As each hour went on, I think the exterior, the power -- the

:30:39.:30:44.

panels, the cladding, that was catching fire and spreading the

:30:45.:30:47.

inferno around the building. But it was definitely on one side. I was in

:30:48.:30:51.

east London at the time that I got the phone call about the tower being

:30:52.:30:57.

on fire and as I drove down the a 40, you could see it for miles.

:30:58.:31:04.

Where was your aunt when you got the call? When I got the call, she was

:31:05.:31:11.

at home. Thankfully, someone had alerted her before I called her, so

:31:12.:31:19.

she takes it has something, I'm OK. She left promptly, as clean as she

:31:20.:31:25.

could. -- as soon as she could. She does suffer with arthritis but luck

:31:26.:31:29.

she believed she was on a lower level, so it was easy for her to get

:31:30.:31:35.

out. I think anyone above a certain flaw in that tower block either

:31:36.:31:38.

struggled or didn't get out. How long has your aunt lived here? Many

:31:39.:31:44.

I've imagine she has been here about I've imagine she has been here about

:31:45.:31:49.

the same. Did she have concerns about the building? This area, it is

:31:50.:31:55.

close around here and when people talk, word gets around and everyone

:31:56.:31:58.

gets involved in other peoples business. Grenfell Tower has a bit

:31:59.:32:03.

of history of issues in the past. It's something we've always been

:32:04.:32:07.

aware of. Something was done about it, I'm not too sure. I don't live

:32:08.:32:11.

in the block myself. I live across from it. It was only refurbished

:32:12.:32:15.

about a year ago, so you would have thought if there were safety

:32:16.:32:19.

concerns, they would have been taken care of when work was done. Was she

:32:20.:32:23.

asleep when the render -- when the fire began? It was 2am, so she would

:32:24.:32:28.

have been asleep. Most people would have been. Where these stairwells

:32:29.:32:42.

full of smoke? She ran out. So she ignored the advice to stay?

:32:43.:32:47.

Absolutely. In that instance, you go into survival mode and luckily I saw

:32:48.:32:54.

her safe and well. I could say that I could put my worries to rest but

:32:55.:32:59.

there are friends of ours that we still haven't heard from. Presumably

:33:00.:33:03.

she knows many of the people here because she has lived in for so

:33:04.:33:07.

long? Absolutely. Some of the people in that have lived there for 30 plus

:33:08.:33:11.

years. It's affected not only the people in that building but everyone

:33:12.:33:16.

around it. If you look around here, there are people from other places

:33:17.:33:21.

that have come just to help, for food, from all religions, all races.

:33:22.:33:25.

Everything has been put aside for today and it's a matching -- it's

:33:26.:33:29.

amazing to watch. The police, the fire brigade, all the emergency

:33:30.:33:34.

services helping. It's absolutely amazing, breathtaking. Finally,

:33:35.:33:37.

where is she going to go tonight? Are you housing her? I will house

:33:38.:33:44.

her by all means if necessary. She is a very strong woman, my aunt, and

:33:45.:33:48.

will do all she can to sort this out for herself. We will always be there

:33:49.:33:52.

for her. At the moment, she has got to lovely sons, my cousins, and they

:33:53.:33:56.

are doing a good job of looking after her. Thank you for speaking to

:33:57.:34:01.

us. His aunt was in the building last night but glad to say she got

:34:02.:34:07.

out safely. There has been an extraordinary effort, as he said,

:34:08.:34:18.

today. Some people have showered locally and giving them closer they

:34:19.:34:22.

can get to the end of the day. Tonight, of course, people looking

:34:23.:34:26.

for emergency accommodation. Some hotels in the area offering

:34:27.:34:33.

accommodation and some concerns that Kensington and Chelsea Council are

:34:34.:34:35.

doing enough for neighbouring council blocks that have had to

:34:36.:34:40.

vacate. We will hear more about that in a second but let's hear most --

:34:41.:34:43.

first from our correspondent, Lucy Manning.

:34:44.:34:49.

The air was punctuated with the sound of crying.

:34:50.:34:50.

They gathered outside the community centre.

:34:51.:34:57.

The one thing nobody could offer was good news.

:34:58.:35:05.

For this family, it was, understandably, too much.

:35:06.:35:10.

My mum, my sister, her daughters and husband.

:35:11.:35:12.

I don't know if they are out, we don't have any information.

:35:13.:35:21.

She gave us this picture of her three smiling neices.

:35:22.:35:23.

You haven't been able to contact them?

:35:24.:35:35.

I phoned my sister, all I could hear was screaming.

:35:36.:35:38.

I was trying to tell her, get out, get to the nearest fire exit.

:35:39.:35:42.

The police officers heard me shouting on the phone.

:35:43.:35:56.

I really just wanted to go in there, basically, do something.

:35:57.:35:59.

In the last hour, she heard news that someone might have

:36:00.:36:11.

After the panic of the night, the day brought only silence.

:36:12.:36:17.

I haven't seen my brother-in-law, his wife and three children.

:36:18.:36:20.

The children are aged 20, the boy is 20.

:36:21.:36:23.

He spoke to them as they were trapped.

:36:24.:36:31.

She said her husband was talking to the emergency people.

:36:32.:36:42.

They said, they are coming to get us, but the heat

:36:43.:36:45.

I said, get a wet blanket, but the kids on the floor

:36:46.:36:50.

She said, we can't do it, because the smoke is killing us,

:36:51.:36:55.

The smoke is coming through the doors.

:36:56.:36:59.

She is keeping covering it, but it is heavy.

:37:00.:37:01.

That was the last time we have heard from her.

:37:02.:37:03.

For those on the lower floors that did make it out,

:37:04.:37:06.

I woke up at about 12.45, hearing, help me, a woman screaming, my baby,

:37:07.:37:16.

The police were knocking on the doors, evacuate, evacuate.

:37:17.:37:31.

We thought we had to get the hell out of here, it is going up.

:37:32.:37:35.

Ed was saved by his friend calling him and telling him to leave.

:37:36.:37:39.

The smoke was so thick, you couldn't see anything.

:37:40.:37:42.

I got three quarters of the way and then I was using my hands

:37:43.:37:46.

I began thinking to myself, this is going to be me, you know?

:37:47.:37:52.

I'm going to die of smoke inhalation.

:37:53.:37:56.

There was actually a fireman lying on the ground.

:37:57.:37:57.

He just touched my foot and led me to wear the fire exit was.

:37:58.:38:10.

Ed was instrumental in raising concerns about the safety

:38:11.:38:13.

This accident never needed to happen.

:38:14.:38:19.

If people had listened to what we were saying,

:38:20.:38:25.

what the blog was saying, what members of the

:38:26.:38:27.

This accident never needed to happen.

:38:28.:38:38.

Inside the centre, those waiting for news or that have

:38:39.:38:40.

lost their homes are covered downstairs in the hall.

:38:41.:38:43.

As you can imagine, it is a fairly distressing situation.

:38:44.:38:46.

At times, people are sobbing as they wait for news.

:38:47.:38:52.

News that, at this stage, will possibly not be good news.

:38:53.:38:55.

They are getting help with housing, with food, and the medical help.

:38:56.:38:58.

Now, it is not just the burned-out building that looms over this

:38:59.:39:04.

community, but the fear that they will hear that many more

:39:05.:39:07.

No doubt we are going to be facing, I think, some sad use in the hours

:39:08.:39:26.

ahead because that recovery and -- that recovery operation is still

:39:27.:39:29.

going on. Let's speak to somebody who has been helping today,

:39:30.:39:32.

providing spiritual help as well as a shoulder to climb on -- a shoulder

:39:33.:39:42.

to cry on, the local bishop. You have been providing some help to the

:39:43.:39:45.

firemen and the emergency service crews who have been in there. We

:39:46.:39:48.

often overlook the fact they have to deal with this traumatic situations

:39:49.:39:55.

as well. Exactly, right around the tower block there are Fire Service,

:39:56.:39:59.

ambulance, police, all of whom are dealing with the immediate issue

:40:00.:40:04.

themselves, trying to put out the fire and to see what can be done

:40:05.:40:08.

with the fire antibodies that are inside. I have been spending the day

:40:09.:40:14.

along with quite a lot of the clergy locally being around them, giving

:40:15.:40:17.

them someone to talk to, and I think I have appreciated someone giving

:40:18.:40:22.

their time to listen to their stories and allowing them to

:40:23.:40:24.

unburden themselves of some of the things they have had to do today. A

:40:25.:40:26.

lot of the people in the early hours lot of the people in the early hours

:40:27.:40:34.

work on adrenaline, trying to get themselves to safety. Tonight, they

:40:35.:40:36.

will be processing what they have been through. Tell us of some of the

:40:37.:40:41.

stories you have heard and what people are doing? Some of them are

:40:42.:40:45.

pretty grim stories, firefighters going into the building, not only

:40:46.:40:49.

coping with the heat and the water jets are there on the hottest day of

:40:50.:40:54.

the year, but also having to step over bodies and having to manage the

:40:55.:41:01.

trauma of that kind of thing. Many of them are used to it. They are

:41:02.:41:06.

extraordinarily professional and one of the things that struck me was how

:41:07.:41:10.

Carmel. But also I think many of them realised that in the days to

:41:11.:41:13.

come a lot of the memories that have affected them to day will come back.

:41:14.:41:18.

They have been through this, not on this scale before, firefighters who

:41:19.:41:21.

have been firefighters for 30 years and have never seen this before.

:41:22.:41:25.

Indeed, we heard from the commander in charge of the London Fire Brigade

:41:26.:41:33.

today and she said she has been in the service for 29 years and have

:41:34.:41:35.

never seen anything like this in a never seen anything like this in a

:41:36.:41:39.

high-rise building. What about accommodation? There are concerns

:41:40.:41:40.

that there is not enough accommodation for people. I have

:41:41.:41:43.

just been down to Saint Clement Church which has been open all day,

:41:44.:41:52.

since 3am, and they have been providing people with space but most

:41:53.:41:55.

of the people that have been there have been taken to the Westway

:41:56.:41:58.

Centre and two other places for accommodation. A lot of other

:41:59.:42:03.

churches locally have set themselves up as places that people can stay.

:42:04.:42:07.

St John's in Notting Hill have set aside 40 beds in the body of the

:42:08.:42:12.

church will people to stay in. My hope is, the council have told us

:42:13.:42:15.

that accommodation has been found. Whether we actually, whether that is

:42:16.:42:22.

actually true, I guess we will know tomorrow morning. Of course, it is

:42:23.:42:27.

not only those in the block. It is people around as well. It is mostly

:42:28.:42:33.

that, actually. Most of the people who need a bed are those who have

:42:34.:42:37.

been evacuated from the local area. I was speaking to one family who

:42:38.:42:40.

were evacuated in the middle of the night last night, came out with no

:42:41.:42:45.

clothes, no anything, the mother had to leave her medication in the flat

:42:46.:42:48.

and they are beginning to worry about what happens when the

:42:49.:42:51.

medication wears off tomorrow. There are a lot of distrust people around.

:42:52.:42:58.

Of course, you get to know the -- there are a lot of distressed people

:42:59.:43:04.

around. Of course you get to know the local community. I was speaking

:43:05.:43:09.

to one of our Filipino priest 's early today and he is anxious about

:43:10.:43:18.

a lot of his people who he knows where in the building that he hasn't

:43:19.:43:21.

spoken to. There are also good news stories, speaking to a fireman who

:43:22.:43:27.

brought out a survivor at 9am, up on one of the upper floors, the door

:43:28.:43:31.

opens and an elderly gentleman walks out, sounded like he was blind and

:43:32.:43:34.

they were able to take him out and get him out safely. One of the last

:43:35.:43:39.

out of the building. So there are good news stories like that but I

:43:40.:43:42.

suspect there will be a lot worse to come. Thank you for ending on a good

:43:43.:43:48.

news story. Thank you for talking to us. I should just say, if you do

:43:49.:43:52.

want to know anything about anyone who was trapped in the building,

:43:53.:43:53.

there is a number. Well, obviously we have heard from

:43:54.:44:16.

people who have been helping out here today. There will be an awful

:44:17.:44:20.

lot of questions as well about buildings of this nature, high-rise

:44:21.:44:23.

buildings, particularly old buildings. This one was built in

:44:24.:44:28.

1973 and only has one stairwell in and out, one exit route for those

:44:29.:44:33.

people on the upper floors, and there will be a lot of questions

:44:34.:44:36.

asked about building regulations in the wake of this. David Shankman has

:44:37.:44:40.

been looking at what might be discussed in this about.

:44:41.:44:46.

The wreckage of Grenfell House stands amid a cluster

:44:47.:44:48.

Like many cities around the world, London has seen

:44:49.:44:50.

Homes and offices, perched high above street level,

:44:51.:44:54.

with a host of safety rules designed to resist fire.

:44:55.:44:57.

But eight years ago, a blaze at this tower block in south

:44:58.:44:59.

Southwark Council was fined for breaching fire regulations.

:45:00.:45:05.

And there are plenty of expert voices today saying

:45:06.:45:08.

that the lessons of what happened here at Lakanal House

:45:09.:45:10.

Lakanal House demonstrated that people were at risk

:45:11.:45:15.

The fire in west London last night, this morning, as demonstrated

:45:16.:45:20.

that they are still at risk in their own homes.

:45:21.:45:23.

These fires shouldn't be happening in 21st-century London.

:45:24.:45:25.

We've got the ability to stop them from happening,

:45:26.:45:31.

and when fires do break out, to restrict them to small areas

:45:32.:45:34.

One key question in the spotlight today is about the design of tower

:45:35.:45:38.

blocks, and how they are meant to keep people safe

:45:39.:45:40.

Normally, a fire hose can only reach about 15 metres.

:45:41.:45:45.

Grenfell Tower stands 67 metres high.

:45:46.:45:48.

In America, they rely on what is called "active safety".

:45:49.:45:51.

Sprinklers fight fires in every room, but that can be expensive.

:45:52.:45:54.

The basic principle here, until recently, has been passive

:45:55.:45:57.

safety, designing the building to confine any blaze

:45:58.:45:59.

Another focus will be on the cladding fitted

:46:00.:46:08.

to the outside of the building panels to improve insulation

:46:09.:46:10.

and the look of older buildings like Grenfell Tower.

:46:11.:46:13.

But dozens of fires have been linked to cladding around the world.

:46:14.:46:20.

Two years ago, a skyscraper in Dubai caught fire,

:46:21.:46:24.

New rules there have tightened up on the kind

:46:25.:46:29.

Investigators here will explore what role the cladding might have played.

:46:30.:46:35.

In the UK, it has to be what we call of limited combustibility.

:46:36.:46:40.

I am sure that is going to be questioned now, after this fire.

:46:41.:46:43.

What exactly that means, and what these types of cladding

:46:44.:46:45.

systems are adding to the fire load on the building.

:46:46.:46:53.

It was after the Second World War that councils and said

:46:54.:46:57.

by moving away from old terraced homes coming to new

:46:58.:47:00.

But their safety from fire depends on good design and care for.

:47:01.:47:04.

London their says people living in tower blocks will now

:47:05.:47:28.

-- The London Mayor says people living in tower blocks

:47:29.:47:30.

need to be reassured, and fire professionals are shocked

:47:31.:47:33.

Literally every single floor was on fire, internally.

:47:34.:47:36.

You see one floor, two floors, and then a hopping

:47:37.:47:40.

from floor to floor, maybe, over a period of time.

:47:41.:47:42.

You would not normally see an entire facade on fire,

:47:43.:47:44.

then all of the interior on fire at the same time.

:47:45.:47:47.

So, the fire overcame whatever safety features were in place.

:47:48.:47:50.

Last year, the Government promised a review into fire

:47:51.:47:53.

safety in tower blocks, but then delayed it.

:47:54.:47:54.

This disaster now makes that work a priority.

:47:55.:47:56.

Let's speak to Simon Lay - he's the UK Representative

:47:57.:48:00.

for the Council on Tall Buildings - which is an international

:48:01.:48:03.

He joins us from our studio in Salford.

:48:04.:48:10.

What do you think went wrong? It is really too early to say. Any tragedy

:48:11.:48:18.

like this tends to be the result of a combination of a number of

:48:19.:48:24.

factors. There is a lot of talk about things like the facade but

:48:25.:48:28.

really it is too early to tell what has gone wrong. Not jumping to

:48:29.:48:35.

conclusions but many people are talking about this rental planning.

:48:36.:48:39.

Has there been a debate about this cladding, have they been other fires

:48:40.:48:45.

worldwide where concerns have been raised? With cladding systems, they

:48:46.:48:50.

are incredibly complicated. They may look simple on the outside but the

:48:51.:48:54.

details behind it and how they attach to a building is very

:48:55.:48:58.

complex. These types of cladding systems, using aluminium panels,

:48:59.:49:05.

composite panels, are common around the world. In some cases there have

:49:06.:49:11.

been issues with them and in other cases they can be designed to be

:49:12.:49:17.

safe. It comes down to the details. Many people perhaps who do not live

:49:18.:49:23.

in high-rise blocks but who work in high-rise office buildings would be

:49:24.:49:26.

quite surprised that there is only one exit out of a building like this

:49:27.:49:32.

and no sprinkler system. It is perfectly normal until a few years

:49:33.:49:37.

ago in the UK to design a high-rise building without sprinklers. They

:49:38.:49:39.

were introduced in other buildings around the world for many reasons

:49:40.:49:44.

but the data in the UK just did not supported, did not suggest there was

:49:45.:49:49.

a need to introduce sprinklers. Also having a single sack -- staircase in

:49:50.:49:56.

a building in the UK is normal practice, and what we have done for

:49:57.:49:59.

a long time. It had not shown any significant impact on fire safety. I

:50:00.:50:08.

can see two or three other apartment blocks and I dare say many people

:50:09.:50:11.

living in those will be nervous this evening. I'm sure people will feel

:50:12.:50:17.

nervous. I would say each building is different, each building is an

:50:18.:50:23.

individual. And people really should not feel nervous. Living in a

:50:24.:50:27.

high-rise building in the UK whether old or new is one of the safest

:50:28.:50:31.

places to live. Simply because we spend a lot of time and attention

:50:32.:50:35.

looking after them, looking at them and worrying about how they are

:50:36.:50:40.

designed from a fire point of view. Thank you very much. Andy Slaughter

:50:41.:50:48.

is the MP for Hammersmith, the neighbouring constituency. This

:50:49.:50:53.

constituency is Kensington. So you're in Hammersmith and you have

:50:54.:50:58.

had an issue like this yourself on Shepherd's Bush Green just a year

:50:59.:51:03.

ago, what kind of things were discussed after that fire that might

:51:04.:51:06.

appertain to what has happened here? We looked at three main issues, the

:51:07.:51:13.

cause, it was unsafe electrical appliances. And secondly whether

:51:14.:51:19.

there were specific issues to this particular tower block, here I know

:51:20.:51:25.

they had been concerns raised by the residents. But I do not want to

:51:26.:51:29.

speculate about both. Then you look at the longer term issues and the

:51:30.:51:32.

defining characteristic of this terrible tragedy is the way that the

:51:33.:51:40.

fire spread. Although there were a number of flats damaged in the

:51:41.:51:44.

Shepherd's Bush via last August, it was contained by the Fire Services

:51:45.:51:51.

and thankfully we only had minor injuries. He clearly a number of

:51:52.:52:00.

fatalities. Just to ask about that stay put instruction, historically

:52:01.:52:04.

that was in place to stop people filling up stairwells and enable

:52:05.:52:07.

fire officers to get up the stairs as quickly as possible. But at some

:52:08.:52:12.

point during a fire like this they have to change the instructions? The

:52:13.:52:16.

received wisdom for the 30 years I have been involved is that tower

:52:17.:52:21.

blocks are inherently safe because if a fire starts then it can be

:52:22.:52:31.

contained within one or two flats. So the Fire Services can get there

:52:32.:52:34.

and deal with it. That is why I think that advice is given. Clearly

:52:35.:52:40.

hear the spread was so intense and so fast, the emergency services

:52:41.:52:43.

could not get up to those flaws and people simply did not have time to

:52:44.:52:48.

do anything. And without an intercom system to change and instructions

:52:49.:52:52.

officers would have to go door-to-door and tell people to

:52:53.:52:56.

clear out. All that will no doubt come out in what will be a

:52:57.:53:00.

substantial enquiry because this is a national tragedy on a huge scale.

:53:01.:53:05.

The whole of London is in shock. This is a very close and diverse

:53:06.:53:11.

community. And people have come together today fantastically. And

:53:12.:53:14.

people in my constituency just 200 yards away have been here offering

:53:15.:53:20.

help. But many questions to be asked and so much uncertainty amongst

:53:21.:53:25.

people living in similar blocks. I know Hammersmith Council has put out

:53:26.:53:30.

a letter to many living in similar blocks nearby today to give them

:53:31.:53:33.

some reassurance. That will have to happen, inspections but also the

:53:34.:53:40.

investigation into whether there are inherent problems with either the

:53:41.:53:45.

construction or cladding of whenever it is that about this tragedy to

:53:46.:53:50.

happen. You were with me earlier when one resident from a

:53:51.:53:53.

neighbouring block said he had nowhere to go and there are some

:53:54.:53:59.

frustration it would seem that Kensington and Chelsea Council are

:54:00.:54:01.

not providing the accommodation people need. I know you have made

:54:02.:54:06.

some phone calls so what can you tell us? What I have been told is

:54:07.:54:10.

also the most vulnerable are being put up in hotels, people with young

:54:11.:54:16.

children or elderly or sick, otherwise people are only being

:54:17.:54:20.

offered resting centres. If that is right, I do not think that is

:54:21.:54:28.

sufficient. I spoke to my own counsel, Hammersmith, and they have

:54:29.:54:32.

helped to source accommodation. Many people are out of their homes for

:54:33.:54:35.

perhaps a couple of nights, the homes that had not been damaged but

:54:36.:54:40.

considered not to be saved as a precaution to return to tonight. So

:54:41.:54:44.

I would say to Kensington Council, one of the richest councils and the

:54:45.:54:49.

country, that those offers are there and they should have the resources

:54:50.:54:52.

to offer a decent bed to everyone put out of their homes tonight. And

:54:53.:54:57.

I hope they will do that. There has been some political finger-pointing

:54:58.:55:00.

already but just briefly, Jeremy Corbyn saying they will look at

:55:01.:55:05.

preventative measures, look at fire staffing of cause and also building

:55:06.:55:10.

regulations and it is especially those building regulations, there

:55:11.:55:13.

was supposed to be a review of that since 2010 and it has not happened.

:55:14.:55:17.

I think there has been, all public services have been dramatically

:55:18.:55:23.

reduced in the past seven years. Local authorities and the Fire

:55:24.:55:25.

Service and many other bodies. People are looking not to take on

:55:26.:55:30.

responsibilities that they would have in the past. That has to stop.

:55:31.:55:36.

It is not just responding to fire, I think the fire brigade did

:55:37.:55:40.

brilliantly last night but it is all those inspections, making sure there

:55:41.:55:44.

are the right materials and sprinkler systems, if nothing else

:55:45.:55:50.

comes from this tragedy I hope we will do that and provide those

:55:51.:55:54.

resources to do that now. There will be a public clamour for that. Thank

:55:55.:56:02.

you very much. Just to tell you a bit about the casualties. 12 people

:56:03.:56:15.

confirmed to have died and more than 70 treated at six hospitals nearby.

:56:16.:56:21.

A major incident has been declared. 100 medical staff have been working

:56:22.:56:26.

flat out through the course of the day helping people who the bus

:56:27.:56:32.

hospitals. 18 of them still we are told in critical condition.

:56:33.:56:34.

Our Medical Correspondent Fergus Walsh reports

:56:35.:56:35.

from St Mary's Hospital in Paddington.

:56:36.:56:43.

I think we're struggling to bring about package. Let's talk about Tom

:56:44.:56:54.

Symons, he has Bolivia reports as to what the investigation into Grenfell

:56:55.:56:56.

Tower might be looking at. That is what some residents

:56:57.:56:58.

believe Grenfell Tower was. Friends and relatives dead,

:56:59.:57:02.

injured fighting for their lives. They say, we told you

:57:03.:57:09.

something was going to The proof of that

:57:10.:57:11.

was not hard to find. This is a blog by

:57:12.:57:18.

the tower's residents We have repeatedly

:57:19.:57:21.

reported concerns to the Tenant Management Organisation of

:57:22.:57:52.

the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, including fire safety

:57:53.:57:55.

concerns that were not investigated Management Organisation in

:57:56.:57:57.

the 1990s, but complaints followed. They included concerns

:57:58.:58:10.

about this advice to residents, to stay put inside

:58:11.:58:13.

a flat if there was a fire outside. There were also reports of faulty

:58:14.:58:17.

safety equipment, power surges and Following what happened here,

:58:18.:58:20.

the management was issued with an enforcement order

:58:21.:58:44.

by the fire brigade. It set out a string of failings,

:58:45.:58:45.

failings to ensure preventative measures

:58:46.:58:48.

to properly assess the risk. Failure to offer a well

:58:49.:58:51.

marked escape route. People were angry then,

:58:52.:58:57.

now they are furious. Some of his friends lived

:58:58.:59:03.

at the Grenfell Tower. They changed the doors,

:59:04.:59:13.

the fire doors, which they He has a smoke alarm

:59:14.:59:29.

in his flat but he's central fire alarm, a concern also

:59:30.:59:38.

raised at the Grenfell fire. It was last given

:59:39.:59:47.

a comprehensive fire risk assessment 18 months ago

:59:48.:59:51.

during its refurbishment when it was covered

:59:52.:59:54.

with new cladding, a common process, so the government has ordered

:59:55.:59:59.

wider checks tonight. We discussed with local authorities

:00:00.:00:10.

and the Fire Service of process where we seek to identify towers

:00:11.:00:14.

that might have had a similar process of refurbishment. And do

:00:15.:00:19.

that as quickly as possible to give reassurance to people. The

:00:20.:00:23.

investigation will begin once the exhausting task of putting out the

:00:24.:00:27.

inferno at the Grenfell Tower is complete. Getting to the bottom of

:00:28.:00:31.

why it spread so fast could take months.

:00:32.:00:45.

200 fire officers responded within minutes. And they were the people

:00:46.:00:51.

running up the stairs and we sometimes overlook their bravery.

:00:52.:00:57.

Bob Parkinson is a former fire officer and joins us from our

:00:58.:01:02.

Blackburn studio. Give us an idea of what firefighters face when they go

:01:03.:01:05.

into a building that is burning like this. It is difficult to move

:01:06.:01:13.

around, basically, going into an area that is full of black fog. This

:01:14.:01:21.

black smoke. If you imagine fog, very heavy fog, but it is black, you

:01:22.:01:28.

cannot see a thing. So when you move around unless you have imaging

:01:29.:01:31.

cameras then you can only feel your way around very often. And obviously

:01:32.:01:36.

you cannot breathe in that smoke, it is quite poisonous. And so

:01:37.:01:40.

firefighters wearing breathing apparatus to be able to go into the

:01:41.:01:44.

atmosphere to carry a search and rescue and firefighting. And it is

:01:45.:01:49.

arduous and the breathing apparatus has a limited life depending on the

:01:50.:01:57.

size of the air cylinder. And also on how hard the firefighter is

:01:58.:02:03.

working if he's having to go ten flights, 25 to stairs through the

:02:04.:02:06.

smoke with breathing apparatus on, then that is going to use up a

:02:07.:02:10.

considerable amount of air. So by the time they arrived at the droid

:02:11.:02:17.

they need to be at, sometimes or often they cannot stay long because

:02:18.:02:22.

of insufficient air to carry out whatever procedures they are going

:02:23.:02:25.

to carry out. And then they have to get out of there before the air runs

:02:26.:02:31.

out or at least before what is called the time of the whistle which

:02:32.:02:35.

basically is a safety margin with a small amount of reserve air. And

:02:36.:02:42.

getting water to the top floor is obviously is the biggest problem. We

:02:43.:02:45.

know they could get watered last night to the 12 floors, the first

:02:46.:02:50.

12, but after that point, what do you do to get water onto the fire in

:02:51.:02:56.

the upper floors? In the current build situation there are what they

:02:57.:03:03.

call risers, dry and wet risers, you would find dry risers in their

:03:04.:03:08.

buildings and wet risers in higher buildings and basically a wet writer

:03:09.:03:14.

is a pipe going up through the staircase through each floor. And it

:03:15.:03:18.

is permanently charged with water. At each level you have landing

:03:19.:03:24.

valves were firefighters can connect their homes into that at each level.

:03:25.:03:29.

So the system should be designed to provide water to every level in the

:03:30.:03:36.

flats. And so they do not need to carry heavy hoses and drag those up

:03:37.:03:42.

staircases and things like that. Thank you very much for talking to

:03:43.:03:48.

us. Another fire officer has direct experience of what happened here,

:03:49.:03:53.

Wayne Brown is deputy assistant chief of the London Fire Brigade.

:03:54.:03:57.

There has obviously been much gratitude for your men and what

:03:58.:03:59.

they've done in the past 20 hours. What can you tell us about the

:04:00.:04:04.

building at the moment? Currently the fire crews are working hard to

:04:05.:04:08.

damp down any small pockets of fire that remain within the block. We're

:04:09.:04:12.

working closely with the local authority and other partners to make

:04:13.:04:18.

sure we go through systematically as part of the fire investigation into

:04:19.:04:22.

what might have been the cause. And the structural integrity of the

:04:23.:04:26.

building is of utmost importance to us. We're working closely with local

:04:27.:04:29.

authorities structural engineers to make sure the structural integrity

:04:30.:04:34.

of the building is such that our crews can carry on working in the

:04:35.:04:39.

building. When we look at helicopter pictures we can see there are still

:04:40.:04:42.

pockets of fire still burning. Yes, a building of this size, a fire of

:04:43.:04:47.

this magnitude, there are still pockets of fire remaining. We have

:04:48.:04:53.

got that under control and we are currently working hard to make sure

:04:54.:04:58.

any small pockets of fire are extinguished as soon as possible.

:04:59.:05:03.

Earlier the commander said you have been able to take advantage of

:05:04.:05:07.

drones supplied by I think the Kent Fire Brigade. What did they enable

:05:08.:05:12.

you to do? Will work closely with all bluelight partners and other

:05:13.:05:16.

Fire And Rescue Services around the country. Kent Fire and Rescue

:05:17.:05:19.

Service kindly offered the use of their drones which means we can get

:05:20.:05:22.

close to the building and get some good images of the damage or any

:05:23.:05:27.

small pockets of fire or phrases were someone could be still within

:05:28.:05:30.

the building that we could not see from the ground. We have images from

:05:31.:05:37.

the police helicopter but also because of downdraught we cannot get

:05:38.:05:41.

too close with a helicopter itself. So the drones gamers some footage.

:05:42.:05:45.

The residents told us you were incredible, your men will hear

:05:46.:05:51.

within just under six minutes. But some of them said there was a

:05:52.:05:55.

problem getting all the trucks working, sourcing water. Was that an

:05:56.:06:02.

issue? All the firefighters both men and women have worked tirelessly to

:06:03.:06:05.

date since the early hours of the morning to extinguish the fire. The

:06:06.:06:10.

fire spread rapidly and developed throughout the building, at that

:06:11.:06:15.

stage we tried to supplement the water supplies. As part of that we

:06:16.:06:18.

draw on the water mains from around the local area and sometimes that

:06:19.:06:22.

can cause a bit of pressure within the mains. But we had no reports of

:06:23.:06:26.

any issues with water. We managed to get water to the incident and

:06:27.:06:30.

because the size of the building is difficult at the higher you go, to

:06:31.:06:34.

get good water pressure. But the fire crews worked really hard in

:06:35.:06:38.

really difficult circumstances and carried out some fantastic work

:06:39.:06:42.

today. Rescuing many members of the public. We just heard from a former

:06:43.:06:47.

fire officer what it is like to go up the stairwell is when they're

:06:48.:06:51.

filled with smoke. You reach the top floor of the building but that does

:06:52.:06:54.

not necessarily mean you have been able to search the top floors. That

:06:55.:06:56.

is correct, it is a building of 24 floors, many flats within

:06:57.:07:15.

that. We managed to get to the top of the building working in difficult

:07:16.:07:17.

conditions and smoke and heat. There has obviously been a lot of debris

:07:18.:07:20.

in the building itself is a part of the ongoing work will be to make

:07:21.:07:22.

sure we systematically searched all the remaining floors that are

:07:23.:07:25.

contained within the building. Would it be the case that in a building

:07:26.:07:27.

like this and particularly on the upper floors, the windows would not

:07:28.:07:30.

open fully and does that make it difficult to escape and difficult

:07:31.:07:33.

for you to get in and help? Usually within a building of this size, we

:07:34.:07:37.

do not, the local fire engineering solutions to the building to not

:07:38.:07:41.

allow for upper floor windows to fully open for obvious reasons. The

:07:42.:07:47.

fire development is something that will be part of the investigation

:07:48.:07:50.

and we cannot really comment on whether anything that was within the

:07:51.:07:54.

building has played a part in the actual fire development itself. That

:07:55.:07:57.

will be part of the ongoing investigation. Your men have been a

:07:58.:08:01.

credit to the service. Thank you very much. Well there has been

:08:02.:08:10.

plenty of political reaction today. Alex Forsyth is at Westminster. What

:08:11.:08:15.

are they saying that are once again politicians finding themselves

:08:16.:08:18.

paying tribute to the work of the emergency services because they're

:08:19.:08:21.

having to deal with another significant incident. In a statement

:08:22.:08:25.

this morning the Prime Minister said her thoughts were with those working

:08:26.:08:28.

tirelessly in very difficult circumstances. She said she was

:08:29.:08:32.

deeply saddened by the loss of life. As you would expect she's been kept

:08:33.:08:36.

briefed throughout the day, there was a cross government meeting to

:08:37.:08:41.

coordinate the government response and make sure the emergency services

:08:42.:08:43.

are getting the support they need. That was chaired by the police and

:08:44.:08:47.

Fire Minister Nick Hurd and he gave an update on what happened at that

:08:48.:08:50.

meeting just as it concluded earlier. There are people out there

:08:51.:08:55.

who will need reassurance. We have discussed with local authorities and

:08:56.:09:00.

the Fire Service a process whereby we seek to identify towers that

:09:01.:09:04.

might be in a similar process of refurbishment, and run a system of

:09:05.:09:09.

checks as quickly as possible to give reassurance to people. The

:09:10.:09:13.

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has already suggested they may be

:09:14.:09:17.

questioned over whether enough preventative measures were taken in

:09:18.:09:20.

the past and whether or not local authorities, some of whom have

:09:21.:09:23.

responsibility for these tower blocks in the UK, had adequate

:09:24.:09:27.

resourcing to make sure all the relevant fire regulations were in

:09:28.:09:31.

place. But he said questions would come tomorrow because the focus now

:09:32.:09:34.

is on getting the support to those who needed. This is Jeremy Corbyn.

:09:35.:09:41.

Totally shocked by, this is the worst nightmare anyone can think of,

:09:42.:09:47.

fire in a tower block and sympathy, support, solidarity to all those

:09:48.:09:51.

stuck in the tower or who have managed to be rescued or who have

:09:52.:09:56.

lost loved ones or do not know what has happened to their friends and

:09:57.:09:58.

family. And a huge thank you to the Fire Service, police and ambulance

:09:59.:10:03.

and all other emergency services that got there so quickly. We are

:10:04.:10:07.

likely to hear more questions about what could or should have been done

:10:08.:10:11.

in the coming days but for now the focus from politicians is on those

:10:12.:10:15.

who in the immediate aftermath of this huge incident are needing great

:10:16.:10:20.

support. The fire brigade just moving in,

:10:21.:10:25.

another control unit behind us there. On its way to the perimeter

:10:26.:10:31.

at Grenfell Tower. Just to return to politics for a second because Tim

:10:32.:10:35.

Farron was under a certain amount of political pressure after the

:10:36.:10:39.

election result and today we understand he has stood down and

:10:40.:10:41.

made a statement. Let's have a listen to that. Journalists have

:10:42.:10:48.

every right to ask what they see fit. The consequences of focus on my

:10:49.:10:52.

face is that I found myself torn between living as a faithful

:10:53.:10:58.

Christian and serving as a leader. A better, wiser person than me may

:10:59.:11:04.

have been able to deal with this war successfully, to remain faithful to

:11:05.:11:07.

Christ while leading a political party in the current environment. To

:11:08.:11:13.

be a political leader especially a progressive, liberal party in 2017

:11:14.:11:17.

and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the

:11:18.:11:20.

teachings of the Bible has felt impossible for me.

:11:21.:11:27.

Tim Farron speaking earlier. Standing down as the leader of the

:11:28.:11:31.

Liberal Democrats. And leadership battle will now pursue. Let's return

:11:32.:11:35.

to local politics. There will be a big debate about the kind of social

:11:36.:11:39.

housing that we should provide in cities like London. Professor Peter

:11:40.:11:43.

Reid 's is the city planning officer for the City of London. Good evening

:11:44.:11:51.

to you. Good evening and can I start by adding my sympathy to those

:11:52.:11:54.

affected by this tragedy and my admiration for those of the

:11:55.:11:57.

emergency services who have put themselves in danger to help. Let's

:11:58.:12:03.

just talk a little bit about high-rise buildings. Many people

:12:04.:12:09.

might be in high-rise buildings in London tonight and will feel very

:12:10.:12:13.

nervous. I shall be returning after this interview and going to bed on

:12:14.:12:17.

the 27th floor of a high-rise block in the City of London and I will

:12:18.:12:22.

sleep soundly tonight. Because high-rise buildings are not

:12:23.:12:28.

inherently dangerous. Why are buildings like this, someone told me

:12:29.:12:33.

it was built in 1973 so it is quite old but had it been built a few

:12:34.:12:37.

years earlier there been concerns about its structural integrity. This

:12:38.:12:40.

is still standing despite the intensity of the fire, why is that?

:12:41.:12:45.

The method of construction has a lot to do with this, if you have a

:12:46.:12:50.

building with a concrete core which are good building should have

:12:51.:12:52.

because that concrete shaft in the middle protect both were escaping

:12:53.:12:56.

through the stairs from the fire around them, it also reinforces the

:12:57.:13:02.

building and allows it to stand. Buildings have for considerable

:13:03.:13:06.

length of time been designed so they do not collapse even in an intense

:13:07.:13:08.

fire like this. But of course many other things can be improved in

:13:09.:13:14.

buildings and as technology has progressed, so buildings have become

:13:15.:13:16.

even safer. For instance the building I live in, even though it

:13:17.:13:23.

is a residential, is fitted with sprinklers which is something quite

:13:24.:13:25.

rare in residential buildings. And has only been quite a recent

:13:26.:13:33.

introduction. Grenfell Tower for those who have been watching us this

:13:34.:13:37.

evening, this is how it looks, blackened, a shell of what it was.

:13:38.:13:41.

And of course structural engineers will need to keep an eye on it over

:13:42.:13:45.

the course of the next 24 hours at and at the moment is structurally

:13:46.:13:49.

safe. You're watching BBC News. We're going to be continuing with

:13:50.:13:54.

our coverage here from Kensington this evening. Plenty more reaction

:13:55.:13:59.

on why this fire happened and what kind of things can be changed in the

:14:00.:14:01.

future to stop it happening again. I think we can bring Professor Rhys

:14:02.:14:22.

Bacchin. -- back in. We were just talking about these older buildings.

:14:23.:14:27.

But a high-rise building like this if it was being built today, would

:14:28.:14:31.

it just have one stairwell exit? Yes, the building that I live in

:14:32.:14:34.

which was completed about three years ago and has 280 apartments,

:14:35.:14:40.

has only one staircase. Of course the staircase is contained within a

:14:41.:14:44.

concrete shaft to protect it from fire and smoke doors are fitted to

:14:45.:14:48.

keep the smoke out of the escape stairs. What perhaps might be

:14:49.:14:51.

different these days is to have special fire lit, taken over by the

:14:52.:15:00.

Fire Service in an emergency. -- Fire lifts. Of course people must

:15:01.:15:05.

not use lifts an emergency but a lift is often provided these days

:15:06.:15:08.

for the Fire Service to get the building quickly without having to

:15:09.:15:11.

run against the flow of people trying to escape down the staircase

:15:12.:15:15.

which is often a great impediment to emergency services and to those

:15:16.:15:21.

trying to escape. Good to get your thoughts, thank you. And plenty more

:15:22.:15:27.

reaction from here in North Kensington. The building behind me

:15:28.:15:31.

continuing to smoulder and the fire brigade still working on the

:15:32.:15:34.

building. Let's get some weather news with Matt Taylor.

:15:35.:15:41.

It has been a day of above average temperatures across much of western

:15:42.:15:48.

Europe. And here in the UK 27 achieved at Heathrow Airport. Across

:15:49.:15:51.

Spain and France the heat remains tomorrow but in the UK the cold

:15:52.:15:55.

front is heading our way to the west. That pushes into Northern

:15:56.:16:00.

Ireland through the night with outbreaks of rain and breeze. But

:16:01.:16:04.

away from that most bases drive. And it will be quite humid for the vast

:16:05.:16:10.

majority tonight. Not dropping much below the mid-teens if at all. So

:16:11.:16:16.

into Thursday morning, the far west of Wales, West of Scotland, cloudy

:16:17.:16:21.

with outbreaks of rain but brighter skies moving in quickly through the

:16:22.:16:25.

morning. Then showers returning for Scotland and Northern Ireland.

:16:26.:16:30.

Temperatures pushing up quite quickly through the east of England.

:16:31.:16:37.

It is a fresher day compared with today across the Channel Islands,

:16:38.:16:40.

south-west England and Wales but it should be dry and sunny in the

:16:41.:16:47.

afternoon and pleasant. 22 degrees by mid afternoon around London but

:16:48.:16:54.

temptress picking at 25 of four things turn fresher later on.

:16:55.:16:58.

Through Northern Ireland and Scotland the shower is more

:16:59.:17:00.

widespread and pushing through on that breeze. As we go through

:17:01.:17:12.

Thursday night and into Friday, most dry, slightly fresher night than the

:17:13.:17:15.

night were about to have but temperatures still in double figures

:17:16.:17:20.

for the majority. A bright start with good sunny spells, clouding

:17:21.:17:23.

over in Northern Ireland, Scotland and the North of England. Some rain

:17:24.:17:29.

around in Scotland. Some brighter skies into the east of Northern

:17:30.:17:33.

Ireland, lifting temperatures to around 20 degrees through the

:17:34.:17:39.

afternoon. Into the weekend high pressure is building from the south,

:17:40.:17:43.

still some cloud and occasional rain in the west of Scotland, perhaps

:17:44.:17:48.

north-west England. Elsewhere sunny and pleasant. And some spots of rain

:17:49.:17:53.

around on Sunday but getting hotter. We could have first 30 degrees in

:17:54.:17:57.

the South East of England. I'm Christian Fraser in West London,

:17:58.:18:04.

where a huge fire has swept through a tower block killing 12

:18:05.:18:09.

people - many residents Up to 600 people may have been

:18:10.:18:12.

in the flats when the blaze broke out in the early hours

:18:13.:18:19.

of the morning. They read to ring 999, there is a

:18:20.:18:26.

dedicated line for this incident. Eyewitnesses say they saw people

:18:27.:18:32.

trapped in their flats, shouting from their windows,

:18:33.:18:34.

trying to throw their There was smoke everywhere,

:18:35.:18:36.

literally everywhere. There was people downstairs,

:18:37.:18:40.

there was bits of the cladding falling off the block

:18:41.:18:43.

that was on fire. The London Fire Brigade desperately

:18:44.:18:45.

struggled to reach the upper floors, but were repelled by the heat

:18:46.:18:57.

and falling debris. Around 70 people are being treated

:18:58.:19:00.

in six London hospitals, 18 of them Residents are sheltering in nearby

:19:01.:19:03.

community centres, while others The Archbishop of Canterbury praises

:19:04.:19:07.

the response of people who've offered food,

:19:08.:19:15.

water and clothes to those People filling out churches using

:19:16.:19:30.

the buildings, using horse, whatever centres they can find, bringing

:19:31.:19:32.

things, working together. Fire crews say it will still be some

:19:33.:19:37.

hours before it's out. We'll bring you full

:19:38.:19:41.

details in moment. The plumes of smoke are still rising

:19:42.:20:16.

into the sky this evening. This is Glenn Foot shower, a shadow of what

:20:17.:20:19.

it once was, a black and charred carcass. It is structurally sound

:20:20.:20:26.

for the moment but engineers are keeping an eye on that and the

:20:27.:20:29.

firefighters who have been here through the course of the day are

:20:30.:20:32.

still working tirelessly on the building to put up a small pockets

:20:33.:20:36.

of fire you can see burning in the middle of the building. It will be,

:20:37.:20:42.

I would think, a day or so before they will be able to work through

:20:43.:20:46.

the various apartments that are, at the moment unreachable in that

:20:47.:20:51.

apartment block. We know 12 people have been killed. Over 70 people

:20:52.:20:55.

were taken to hospital and we have been told by the London Ambulance

:20:56.:21:00.

Service, 18 people remain in critical condition. The police are

:21:01.:21:04.

warning us there may be more victims in the hours ahead. So more sad news

:21:05.:21:10.

expected here at North Kensington. Let's take a look at the

:21:11.:21:14.

surroundings and bring you up to speed with where we are in North

:21:15.:21:19.

Kensington. This is Grenfell Tower, part of a housing complex near the

:21:20.:21:26.

Westfield shopping centre. It is 24 stories high and in it where 120

:21:27.:21:32.

flats which were arranged over 20 residential floors. Up to 600 people

:21:33.:21:37.

may have been inside when the fire broke out. Most would have been

:21:38.:21:41.

asleep because the fire broke out just before 1am. The cause of the

:21:42.:21:48.

fire isn't known but we know it the alarm was raised just before 1am and

:21:49.:21:53.

the fire crews were on the scene six minutes after being called. Over 200

:21:54.:21:58.

firefighters working around the clock since then. Up to 20 hours

:21:59.:22:02.

they have been working to put out the fires.

:22:03.:22:08.

It is a tragedy that plays to our darkest fears.

:22:09.:22:14.

There was people downstairs, bits of cladding falling off the block.

:22:15.:22:22.

The fire started between midnight and 1am.

:22:23.:22:29.

The screams from the flats and the acrid smell of burning,

:22:30.:22:32.

It was just people jumping out, literally.

:22:33.:22:41.

And putting sheets down to try to get out of the building.

:22:42.:22:44.

Windows exploding, big, massive pieces of debris

:22:45.:22:46.

We came here, saw people jumping off.

:22:47.:22:53.

People had jumped off because they had no other option.

:22:54.:22:56.

Someone was on fire and he jumped too.

:22:57.:23:02.

Some people picked up their children and threw them out for the police

:23:03.:23:09.

to pick them up because there was no other way out of the building.

:23:10.:23:12.

I saw kids at the window shouting, help me, help me, I can't breathe.

:23:13.:23:17.

And all these people have lost people in their lives and I know

:23:18.:23:24.

The fire raced through the 24 storey council block in this deprived part

:23:25.:23:38.

On the seventh floor, this family were led to safety

:23:39.:23:41.

when a fire officer made it up to their flat.

:23:42.:23:44.

There was smoke everywhere, people screaming.

:23:45.:23:46.

There was a fireman there going, get out, get out.

:23:47.:23:50.

I ran back in in my boxer shorts, grabbed the little girl,

:23:51.:23:53.

put her under my dressing gown to cover her face from the smoke,

:23:54.:23:56.

got my girlfriend up, running down, got to the fourth floor

:23:57.:23:59.

This mother and her six-year-old son were also trapped

:24:00.:24:03.

For a moment, she thought her best option was to jump

:24:04.:24:07.

through the window with her child in her arms.

:24:08.:24:10.

For a split second, I had that temptation to jump over

:24:11.:24:14.

You actually thought about jumping from the building?

:24:15.:24:22.

And then your husband grabbed you and took you out?

:24:23.:24:27.

Yes, otherwise, my second thought was to jump.

:24:28.:24:33.

Many residents have complained to me that the fire alarm was too quiet

:24:34.:24:38.

to hear and that the blaze raced from the bottom to the top of

:24:39.:24:41.

All the time we have lived here, they have said if there is a fire,

:24:42.:24:48.

you have to stay in the flat, the fire can't penetrate

:24:49.:24:51.

If we had done that, we would have perished.

:24:52.:24:54.

There was no way that was stopping no fire.

:24:55.:24:56.

Residents told me that they had complained to the authorities

:24:57.:24:58.

that the recently refurbished building was a disaster

:24:59.:25:00.

We tried to take a lot of things to our local MP.

:25:01.:25:07.

Because if one fire happened, we knew that this would happen.

:25:08.:25:25.

Deep poverty and extraordinary wealth live by side-by-side in this

:25:26.:25:28.

The block was home to some of Kensington's poorest families.

:25:29.:25:35.

With dawn, grim, is expected news, that lives have been lost.

:25:36.:25:38.

Many people, numb with shock, frantically searched to find missing

:25:39.:25:44.

This woman's sister and 12-year-old nephew were unaccounted for.

:25:45.:25:47.

As well as the smoke and the smell of burning,

:25:48.:26:07.

numb, shock and tension hangs over this area.

:26:08.:26:09.

In the 21st century, in a country with some

:26:10.:26:12.

of the strictest fire regulations in the world, a desperate tragedy

:26:13.:26:14.

Well into the morning, the crowds watching the horror

:26:15.:26:32.

unfolding in front of them reported seeing people still

:26:33.:26:34.

A man was eventually brought out by the emergency services at noon.

:26:35.:26:48.

This off-duty nurse helped tend to some of the injured

:26:49.:26:51.

I have seen some things, but today...

:26:52.:26:53.

There are mothers that have come out and lost their children.

:26:54.:27:01.

There are firefighters that have come out injured.

:27:02.:27:04.

We don't know if they are even going to come out safe.

:27:05.:27:07.

People have lost their homes, children have seen things,

:27:08.:27:14.

We just need to rebuild as a community now.

:27:15.:27:18.

As the community realised the enormity of what had happened,

:27:19.:27:21.

This woman went to her wardrobe, grabbed a bag of her own clothes

:27:22.:27:25.

A bag of clothes, to me, is nothing, when I can help somebody else.

:27:26.:27:35.

This is a community where a lot of people don't have a lot.

:27:36.:27:39.

We are heartbroken for our community.

:27:40.:27:48.

This is a disaster for this community.

:27:49.:27:56.

But we are pulling together, the people that have nothing,

:27:57.:27:59.

we are giving things to people that have nothing.

:28:00.:28:03.

Sadly I can confirm that there are now 12

:28:04.:28:05.

people that have died, that we know of.

:28:06.:28:09.

This will be a long and complex recovery operation.

:28:10.:28:14.

I do anticipate that the number of fatalities will, sadly,

:28:15.:28:17.

This is a neighbourhood that feels ignored.

:28:18.:28:23.

We have a number of high-rise buildings here and in

:28:24.:28:35.

We do have to meet stringent safety standards, and in a refurbishment

:28:36.:28:49.

there will be a thorough inspection by the fire authorities.

:28:50.:28:51.

It clearly hasn't, we will have to get the bottom

:28:52.:28:55.

The Mayor of London promised there will be a thorough

:28:56.:28:58.

and independent investigation into what happened.

:28:59.:29:00.

My thoughts and prayers, as I am sure the thoughts

:29:01.:29:02.

and prayers the entire country, with the family and friends of those

:29:03.:29:05.

in the building and affected by this and horrific fire.

:29:06.:29:07.

I would also pay tribute to the amazing emergency services,

:29:08.:29:11.

from the Fire Service, we have more than 250 firefighters,

:29:12.:29:15.

many of whom have been here since the beginning.

:29:16.:29:18.

The streets of North Kensington are littered with ashes.

:29:19.:29:24.

The charred ashes of homework of a school child.

:29:25.:29:27.

But the neighbourhood is also scarred by grief that will not

:29:28.:29:30.

Quite a lot of activity here tonight. Many of the Fire Services

:29:31.:29:51.

are changing over. You did point out in my interview with the deputy fire

:29:52.:29:56.

chief, I did refer to firemen, but there have been men and women,

:29:57.:30:00.

firefighters going into the building. I am happy to correct

:30:01.:30:02.

that. Here with me now is Carrie Hirst

:30:03.:30:05.

from the Kensington She manages a project called

:30:06.:30:07.

Community Champions in the local area and they've been

:30:08.:30:11.

helping out today. We are funded by public health and

:30:12.:30:22.

we are based in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster. We are

:30:23.:30:28.

community hubs so the project I manages for the Notting Dale Ward,

:30:29.:30:32.

which is here and we work with the residents who live on the estates.

:30:33.:30:36.

Obviously today, the news has been very upsetting. Tell us about some

:30:37.:30:43.

of the people you have come across, they have lost everything? They

:30:44.:30:48.

have, but community spirit, as ever is an incredible thing. All the

:30:49.:30:53.

local organisations in the area have been inundated with donations and

:30:54.:30:58.

offers of support. We had so many volunteers are all desperate to help

:30:59.:31:02.

however they can. It has been incredible. Are you comfortable that

:31:03.:31:08.

the night everybody has a bed? There are lots of different centres in the

:31:09.:31:13.

area offering space. I am sleeping at the Westway tonight, where we

:31:14.:31:17.

have a whole group of people bear. The James Hunt and ruby Portobello.

:31:18.:31:27.

You have camp beds? Yes, mattresses, pillows, sleeping bags. We are not

:31:28.:31:32.

sure what to expect. They are being referred to as by housing

:31:33.:31:37.

organisations and friends and family who went affected by the fire, but

:31:38.:31:45.

they were inside the cordoned. Hundreds of people but don't have a

:31:46.:31:49.

home the night, so we will be working through the night. Are there

:31:50.:31:54.

people coming from centre to centre still looking for people? There are.

:31:55.:32:00.

But I think by now, the majority of people have an answer or at least

:32:01.:32:04.

they know what to do in order to find that missing person. There is a

:32:05.:32:08.

number they can call, the centres have information and there is people

:32:09.:32:13.

in the street to help. Lots of people around the country want to

:32:14.:32:17.

help. It sounds like you have what you need in the immediate term,

:32:18.:32:20.

food, drink and clothing, what can they do? Keep updated with what is

:32:21.:32:28.

going on through social media, to Kensington town Hall website, the

:32:29.:32:34.

volunteer Centre will be updating Twitter. And we will be here on the

:32:35.:32:40.

ground updating what's necessary, what the organisations need, what

:32:41.:32:44.

the residents need. But for now, we have a lot of donations and a lot of

:32:45.:32:52.

manpower. Thank you for talking to us. It is good work you are doing

:32:53.:32:57.

and I'm sure you will be busy in days ahead.

:32:58.:33:01.

Well, throughout the night stories emerged of people who'd

:33:02.:33:04.

escaped the tower block and watched the fire as it swept

:33:05.:33:06.

Many are now being sheltered in nearby community centres.

:33:07.:33:13.

And that's where family and friends of those

:33:14.:33:17.

who are missing are also heading, going from centre to centre

:33:18.:33:20.

Our Special Correspondent Lucy Manning has been talking

:33:21.:33:24.

to the families caught up in the tragedy.

:33:25.:33:26.

The air was punctuated with the sound of crying.

:33:27.:33:29.

They gathered outside the community centre.

:33:30.:33:40.

The one thing nobody could offer was good news.

:33:41.:33:44.

For this family, it was, understandably, to much.

:33:45.:33:51.

My mum, my sister, her daughters and husband.

:33:52.:33:54.

I don't know if they are out, we don't have any information.

:33:55.:34:04.

Susan gave us this picture of her three smiling neices.

:34:05.:34:09.

You haven't been able to contact them?

:34:10.:34:22.

I phoned my sister when she was in, all I could hear was screaming.

:34:23.:34:25.

I was trying to tell her, get out, get to the nearest fire exit.

:34:26.:34:28.

The police officers heard me shouting on the phone.

:34:29.:34:39.

I really just wanted to go in there, basically, do something.

:34:40.:34:42.

In the last hour, she heard news that someone might have

:34:43.:34:49.

After the panic of the night, the day brought only silence.

:34:50.:34:59.

I haven't seen my brother-in-law, his wife and three children.

:35:00.:35:05.

The children are aged 20, the boy is 20.

:35:06.:35:07.

He spoke to them as they were trapped.

:35:08.:35:15.

She said her husband was talking to the emergency people.

:35:16.:35:25.

They said, they are coming to get us, but the heat

:35:26.:35:28.

I said, get a wet blanket, put the kids on the floor

:35:29.:35:36.

She said, we can't do it, because the smoke is killing us,

:35:37.:35:40.

The smoke is coming through the doors.

:35:41.:35:44.

She is keeping covering it, but it is heavy.

:35:45.:35:46.

That was the last time we have heard from her.

:35:47.:35:48.

For those on the lower floors that did make it out,

:35:49.:35:51.

I woke up at about 12.45, hearing, help me, a woman screaming, my baby,

:35:52.:36:01.

The police were knocking on the doors, evacuate, evacuate.

:36:02.:36:16.

We felt we had to get the hell out of here, it is going up.

:36:17.:36:20.

Ed was saved by his friend calling him and telling him to leave.

:36:21.:36:23.

The smoke was so thick, you couldn't see anything.

:36:24.:36:27.

I got three quarters of the way and then I was using my hands

:36:28.:36:31.

I began thinking to myself, this is going to be me, you know?

:36:32.:36:36.

I'm going to die of smoke inhalation.

:36:37.:36:39.

There was actually a fireman lying on the ground.

:36:40.:36:42.

He just touched my foot and led me to wear the fire exit was.

:36:43.:36:53.

He just touched my foot and led me to where the fire exit was.

:36:54.:36:59.

Ed was instrumental in raising concerns about the safety

:37:00.:37:01.

This accident never needed to happen.

:37:02.:37:08.

If people listened to what we were saying,

:37:09.:37:10.

what the blog were saying, what members of the

:37:11.:37:12.

Inside the centre, those waiting for news or have

:37:13.:37:25.

lost their homes are gathered downstairs in the hall.

:37:26.:37:28.

As you can imagine, it is a fairly distressing situation.

:37:29.:37:30.

At times, people are sobbing as they wait for news.

:37:31.:37:36.

News that, at this stage, will possibly not be good news.

:37:37.:37:39.

They are getting help with housing, with food, and the medical help.

:37:40.:37:45.

Now, it is not just the burned-out building that looms over this

:37:46.:37:50.

community, but the fear that they will hear that many more

:37:51.:37:52.

There may be plenty of sad days ahead but there is anger as well.

:37:53.:38:10.

There were concerns about the safety of this building as far back as

:38:11.:38:14.

November. Some of you may have seen on social media, excerpts from a

:38:15.:38:25.

blog. The grand fell action group said there were problems with entry

:38:26.:38:30.

and exit, they have problems with the improvement works, the

:38:31.:38:35.

evacuation procedures, emergency lighting and access for emergency

:38:36.:38:40.

vehicles. After the fire, the group posted today, all our warnings fell

:38:41.:38:44.

on deaf ears and we predicted a catastrophe like this was inevitable

:38:45.:38:48.

and just a matter of time. The criticism was aimed at the group who

:38:49.:38:58.

manages the block. It is managed by the Kensington and Chelsea

:38:59.:39:01.

management organisation and on behalf of them, Robert Blake has

:39:02.:39:06.

given this statement. It is hard for me to comment about anything at the

:39:07.:39:11.

moment because of the investigation. If you listen to the police and the

:39:12.:39:15.

fire brigade, just before I came here, they are saying the same

:39:16.:39:20.

thing. They are still putting the fire out, still trying to find homes

:39:21.:39:24.

for people to go to the night. Still trying to find everybody. What we

:39:25.:39:31.

are trying to do is on the ground, put support in place to address

:39:32.:39:35.

these things. That is my key focus. All the rest we will be addressing

:39:36.:39:41.

in the mastication. Do you think the stay in the flat instruction was

:39:42.:39:46.

partly to blame for the loss of life? I don't know how to answer

:39:47.:39:50.

that because I don't know the consequences, where or how the lives

:39:51.:39:55.

were lost. All I am saying is, across London and other places, you

:39:56.:39:59.

have a staple policy because that is what the fire brigade advise. There

:40:00.:40:08.

was a message to inside housing about the blog not being inspected

:40:09.:40:13.

for 18 month well the inspection took place, were certain things

:40:14.:40:18.

behind schedule, do you think? I cannot mention specifics because

:40:19.:40:21.

they will be looked into. It doesn't sound like anything I know. I know

:40:22.:40:28.

some of the alarms had to be hard-wired in the flats, I just

:40:29.:40:31.

wonder if that work had been completed? Any work that was done

:40:32.:40:37.

during the refurbishment was completed and signed off and that is

:40:38.:40:41.

our position. That is what we will be able to show as we go through

:40:42.:40:46.

this enquiry. So there were all hard-wired, the alarms? I cannot

:40:47.:40:52.

really answer at the moment. I don't know the details. I am just trying

:40:53.:40:56.

to provide assurance and make sure people are safe. Do you know how

:40:57.:41:03.

many people were in at the time? We wouldn't know that, 140 flats,

:41:04.:41:08.

people come and go. We still try to find out where these people are

:41:09.:41:12.

because they were in different places. That was Robert Black from

:41:13.:41:16.

the Kensington and Chelsea tenant management organisation. We are

:41:17.:41:21.

expecting to hear from the Prime Minister in the next few minutes. I

:41:22.:41:28.

can tell you she is promising a full and proper investigation. She has

:41:29.:41:32.

been kept abreast of events here through the course of the day. So a

:41:33.:41:36.

full and proper investigation is what the Prime Minister is

:41:37.:41:38.

promising. Here with me now is

:41:39.:41:39.

Professor Tony Travers We have just been listening to

:41:40.:41:49.

Robert Black from the management organisation which tells us how

:41:50.:41:54.

these blocks are run, it is a complex organisational structure?

:41:55.:42:00.

Yes, people will remember councils running council houses. In some

:42:01.:42:04.

cases, local authorities gave over the housing to housing associations,

:42:05.:42:09.

not-for-profit companies and in this case and a number of others, to a

:42:10.:42:15.

tenant management organisation, arms length from the council, separate

:42:16.:42:21.

and responsible for the work on it. Nevertheless, running the housing as

:42:22.:42:25.

if for the Council. So there is still a link back to the council

:42:26.:42:30.

because it is their property. It is them who are responsible for

:42:31.:42:33.

nominating tenants into the building. OK, but where does the

:42:34.:42:39.

book fall? It is complicated and too early to draw any conclusions

:42:40.:42:44.

because in an incident like this, the Fire Brigade will have

:42:45.:42:46.

responsibilities for giving advice on how a building like this should

:42:47.:42:52.

be protected against fire. The organisation that runs it, the

:42:53.:42:57.

management organisation will be responsible for reacting to that and

:42:58.:43:00.

then the Fire Brigade to inspecting that. All of this within central

:43:01.:43:05.

government setting rules to do with building standards. When the Prime

:43:06.:43:08.

Minister promises an enquiry, it will have to look at all of these

:43:09.:43:12.

aspects of it, because you have different levels of government

:43:13.:43:21.

involved. Obviously, there have been concerns expressed by the residents,

:43:22.:43:23.

which we were just talking about. What happens if a group like this

:43:24.:43:28.

just ignores them? We mustn't prejudge any of this because I am

:43:29.:43:32.

sure any group of tenants living in a block like this will have

:43:33.:43:36.

complaints from time to time. An enquiry would have to look at the

:43:37.:43:41.

complaints made and see whether there was an appropriate response to

:43:42.:43:46.

the concerns as expressed. That is why an enquiry, first by the Fire

:43:47.:43:51.

Brigade I am guessing, and then, as the Prime Minister has announced, is

:43:52.:43:54.

essential to get to the bottom of what happened. We need to look at

:43:55.:44:02.

this over a short time, but with detailed enquiries so it is possible

:44:03.:44:05.

to see where the responsibility lies. The MP for Hammersmith, who

:44:06.:44:09.

was with me earlier was saying it is going to get more complex in social

:44:10.:44:14.

housing blocks like this because of the Right to Buy scheme. When you

:44:15.:44:17.

have an organisation which manages the block, they do renovations for

:44:18.:44:23.

the whole block but when you have somebody who has their own

:44:24.:44:28.

apartment, maybe they don't do the same renovations as the organisation

:44:29.:44:35.

might? It is possible. In other homes, there will be different

:44:36.:44:37.

safety standards than there would be inside a council house. It is all

:44:38.:44:43.

these aspects of this complex issue which will have to be reviewed in

:44:44.:44:49.

order to get to the bottom of why such a tragedy could possibly occur.

:44:50.:44:53.

Different parts of government and their responsibilities will have to

:44:54.:44:58.

be investigated. On a huge renovation project we saw a year

:44:59.:45:03.

ago, who is it ultimately that approves the renovation and signs it

:45:04.:45:08.

off? Is it the group of the council? I cannot answer that for 100%, I

:45:09.:45:19.

thought it would be the tenant's group, the tenant management group

:45:20.:45:26.

would do that. But again, that is something that will be investigated.

:45:27.:45:29.

OK, thank you very much. Obviously there will be lessons

:45:30.:45:47.

learned and to see if it could be avoided. There have been reviews

:45:48.:45:51.

taken place in the past and we hoped lessons would be learned. Tom

:45:52.:45:54.

Edwards has been looking back. Knowing full well this isn't going

:45:55.:46:08.

to end well, it is heartbreaking. Angela lives on the 19th floor in

:46:09.:46:13.

the block opposite Grenfell Tower. After last night she is concerned

:46:14.:46:19.

about the fire risk in her own building. The first thing that came

:46:20.:46:25.

to my mind at 3am what is that security protocol for this building

:46:26.:46:30.

it some other similar happen? What would he do, word with the go? This

:46:31.:46:34.

raises questions about London's housing stock. The last major fatal

:46:35.:46:41.

fire was a Lakanal House in Southwark in 2009. Six people died.

:46:42.:46:45.

After that the coroner made recommendations that the government

:46:46.:46:49.

should clarify if residents should stay put a get out if there is a

:46:50.:46:55.

fire. Councils should retrofit sprinklers and simplify building

:46:56.:46:58.

regulations about what can be changed. The chances of getting a

:46:59.:47:04.

fire are very low... In 2010 the London assembly also highlighted

:47:05.:47:09.

concerns about the capital's high-rise housing stock. We found

:47:10.:47:13.

there is a relatively low risk of having a fire in a tall building.

:47:14.:47:19.

You are fairly safe. But the big problem is, if there is fired then

:47:20.:47:22.

advise is often not given about the right way to behave. Landlords are

:47:23.:47:27.

probably not giving enough information to their tenants and

:47:28.:47:29.

perhaps councils not giving enough advice to the landlords. According

:47:30.:47:37.

to City Hall, about 8% of London's population live in blocks of flats

:47:38.:47:42.

over 11 stories tall, around 690,000 people. Most were built in the late

:47:43.:47:47.

60s and early 70s, but more are now being planned for the future as the

:47:48.:47:54.

capital grows. There have been changes, Southwark Council says it

:47:55.:47:58.

gives a regular fire risk assessment to its blocks. The fire unions and

:47:59.:48:02.

campaigners have, for many years, been calling for the government to

:48:03.:48:07.

review building regulations. Lessons have not been learned. Today is an

:48:08.:48:11.

absolute tragedy and it is caused by the lack of proper regulation of

:48:12.:48:16.

refurbishment standards. The government have been pressed for a

:48:17.:48:19.

number of years by the all-party Parliamentary committee on safety.

:48:20.:48:26.

To do a review of the building regulations to test the integrity of

:48:27.:48:30.

materials that are used in refurbishment is and they have

:48:31.:48:34.

continually put this off. The government says that work is still

:48:35.:48:37.

ongoing and checks will now be carried out on blocks going through

:48:38.:48:41.

similar refurbishment. But there is now anger and questions. What

:48:42.:48:48.

happened in Lakanal House, after it had been refurbished, the

:48:49.:48:52.

refurbishment had compromised the fire compartmentalised nation and

:48:53.:48:55.

the fire spread. It looks like that is what has happened in Granville

:48:56.:49:00.

house, it has been refurbished and the compartmentalisation of the fire

:49:01.:49:04.

has been compromised so it has spread and people have lost their

:49:05.:49:08.

lives. There has been a lot of publicity around what should be done

:49:09.:49:13.

about external cladding and what should be done about tower blocks

:49:14.:49:19.

being fire proved inside properly and a fire should not be spreading

:49:20.:49:24.

beyond the flat where it breaks out. People should be able to be

:49:25.:49:28.

evacuated and wait for the Fire Brigade to do with the incident. It

:49:29.:49:31.

is difficult to see why this has happened and there is not many

:49:32.:49:36.

excuses for it. This man lives in the block opposite and hasn't been

:49:37.:49:40.

able to contact a friend who lives in Grunfeld tower. If you move to

:49:41.:49:46.

the right, you can see where the smoke is about now. That is where

:49:47.:49:51.

she used to live. While it is unclear why this fire happened, it

:49:52.:49:54.

is very clear that safeguards failed.

:49:55.:50:03.

There has been plenty of finger-pointing,...

:50:04.:50:08.

Let's speak now to Graham Fieldhouse, a consultant fire safety

:50:09.:50:10.

expert for social housing and was also in the London Fire Brigade high

:50:11.:50:13.

Why'd you think lessons perhaps have not been learned? One of the issues,

:50:14.:50:24.

and our condolences go out to the families, one of the issues that

:50:25.:50:28.

came up was the surface spread of fire from the outside of the

:50:29.:50:32.

building and it would appear something similar is the case so why

:50:33.:50:39.

checks done, what fire testing certification was in place and did

:50:40.:50:42.

the people who are looking at the testing did they have the necessary

:50:43.:50:46.

skills and expertise to understand what they were looking at? The other

:50:47.:50:52.

questions is the fire doors. Even if the fire hit a flat, each of the

:50:53.:50:56.

flats is like a shoe box, they should have given you a 30 minute

:50:57.:51:00.

protection so when you've stuck next to each other, each should be

:51:01.:51:04.

protected 30 minutes so the flat front doors should have given

:51:05.:51:12.

protection. Witness reports say it was full of smoke, where did that

:51:13.:51:16.

come from, what the Windows on the floor is causing the smoke to get

:51:17.:51:19.

there was at the doors themselves and the other question is people

:51:20.:51:25.

saying they did not hear any alarms or have alarms. That should have

:51:26.:51:29.

been a minimum LD grade three F system. That is the typical one you

:51:30.:51:35.

might have at home, battery operated stuck on the ceiling. The

:51:36.:51:37.

recommendations would be for an elderly Grade II, grade D system

:51:38.:51:44.

which would have been a heat in the kitchen and smoke in the hallway so

:51:45.:51:50.

if we had those. We will come back to but we are expecting a statement

:51:51.:51:55.

from May which will come in about now I think. She says she wants a

:51:56.:52:00.

full investigation so let's listen to what Theresa May have to say.

:52:01.:52:14.

We have some technical problems with that. We will crash into that if and

:52:15.:52:22.

when it happens. While we are waiting for the Prime Minister, I

:52:23.:52:26.

might interrupt you again, what do you think, you alluded to it, you

:52:27.:52:30.

think it was the panels on the side of this building that made the fire

:52:31.:52:34.

jump as quickly as it did from floor to floor? The concrete as we can

:52:35.:52:42.

see, does not really burn. Something has to have set the fire in the

:52:43.:52:46.

manner it did and the ferocity it did and one would think either the

:52:47.:52:50.

panelling that was used or the packing behind the panelling was not

:52:51.:52:55.

too required fire spread standard and that is what we need to look at.

:52:56.:52:59.

Is it acceptable for a building like this behind us to not have water

:53:00.:53:03.

sprinklers because we all working big office blocks and above my desk

:53:04.:53:08.

at the BBC there is a sprinkler system that will kick in if there

:53:09.:53:12.

was a fire, why does a building like this not have one? In some countries

:53:13.:53:19.

in Scotland, it insists on sprinkler systems now, the UK has been

:53:20.:53:24.

encouraging sprinkler systems for quite some time although sprinklers

:53:25.:53:28.

themselves will not stop a fire from killing someone in the flat of

:53:29.:53:31.

origin because they do not usually go off until the heat in the flat is

:53:32.:53:39.

raised to a level. It would give firefighters more time to get to the

:53:40.:53:43.

upper floors and save more people. Absolutely. Why are we not insisting

:53:44.:53:50.

on proper fire doors because that may have been an issue, it is an

:53:51.:53:53.

issue I have come across were people remove the door closes so doors with

:53:54.:54:00.

integral closes and have the certification, that is what we want,

:54:01.:54:04.

not global certification which people use which means the door has

:54:05.:54:14.

been tested individually. With your consultant fire safety hat on, what

:54:15.:54:19.

would the investigators look at and where might they look when they

:54:20.:54:23.

start investigating? One of the thing you need to investigate, under

:54:24.:54:32.

an approved document regulation, the government document in relation to

:54:33.:54:36.

fire safety in building works, one of the requirements is for you to

:54:37.:54:40.

hand over suitable information about the systems you have used unsuitable

:54:41.:54:43.

certification so I would want to look at was it handed over, was the

:54:44.:54:47.

person who looked at that competence to look at that and would they get

:54:48.:54:52.

the advice from and somebody like Sir Ken Knights who has done a

:54:53.:54:55.

number of investigations in the past would be an ideal candidate to get

:54:56.:54:58.

to the bottom of that and other factors. There is a requirement for

:54:59.:55:03.

within blocks of flats to be checked annually, was that happening, what

:55:04.:55:08.

adores working and door closes working properly? Fire alarm

:55:09.:55:13.

systems, wage a fire risk assessment you should do a sample of the flats.

:55:14.:55:23.

More regular than 2015? The judge in a recent case suggested annually or

:55:24.:55:26.

though there was no specific statement when it should be done but

:55:27.:55:29.

I would recommend in a tower block this ilk you should be done

:55:30.:55:32.

annually. Interesting thoughts. Thank you for being with us. I think

:55:33.:55:38.

we do have control of the Theresa May tape so let's play it.

:55:39.:55:43.

I have received the latest update on the tragedy at Grenfell Tower, 12

:55:44.:55:47.

people have been confirmed dead in this terrible fire that has taken

:55:48.:55:53.

place and sadly the police expect that number to rise further and my

:55:54.:55:57.

thoughts are with the victims, their families and all of those who had

:55:58.:56:01.

their homes destroyed. It is impossible to comprehend the horror

:56:02.:56:04.

of what they have been going through. The response of people

:56:05.:56:07.

living nearby who have provided help, compassion and support has

:56:08.:56:13.

once again shown fantastic spirit of London. Earlier today I ordered

:56:14.:56:17.

cross government meeting to ensure that every assistance was given to

:56:18.:56:21.

manage the emergency service response and that group will meet

:56:22.:56:25.

again tomorrow and once again our emergency services, the Fire

:56:26.:56:31.

Service, ambulance, NHS and police, have shown incredible bravery

:56:32.:56:35.

working in truly appalling conditions and their work will

:56:36.:56:38.

continue for some time and I know everybody will want to join me in

:56:39.:56:42.

thanking them for their amazing bravery. Many people will be working

:56:43.:56:47.

around the clock in the NHS to treat those who have been injured and

:56:48.:56:51.

working elsewhere to provide help and support to those who have no

:56:52.:56:57.

home to return to. Of course, once the scene is secure, once the

:56:58.:57:01.

recovery is complete, an investigation will take place into

:57:02.:57:04.

the cause of the fire and if there are any lessons to be learnt but

:57:05.:57:09.

until then our focus must be on ensuring emergency services have

:57:10.:57:13.

what they need to continue with their harrowing work and help and

:57:14.:57:17.

support is provided to all those who have suffered as a result of this

:57:18.:57:23.

tragedy. At the meeting of the civil contingencies Secretariat it was

:57:24.:57:25.

agreed further checks will be carried out on similar tower blocks.

:57:26.:57:30.

What would you say to those who say perhaps this should have happened

:57:31.:57:34.

before and there are some claims also that the government last year

:57:35.:57:37.

promised to bring in tougher regulations and that has not

:57:38.:57:42.

happened. Our focus today is on ensuring there is every support

:57:43.:57:46.

available to the emergency services and in their typical worker Ms

:57:47.:57:50.

terrible conditions but also in providing help and support to those

:57:51.:57:54.

who have been victims. We must remember there are people today are

:57:55.:58:04.

a who have no home to go to. Our focus must be on providing support

:58:05.:58:07.

to them. In due course when the scene is secure and it is possible

:58:08.:58:13.

to identify the cause of this fire then there will be proper

:58:14.:58:15.

investigation and if there any lessons to be learnt they will be

:58:16.:58:22.

and action be taken. The Prime Minister speaking a short time ago.

:58:23.:58:25.

There will be a proper investigation and if lessons need to be learned,

:58:26.:58:28.

they will be and action will be taken. This time we would normally

:58:29.:58:32.

be tuning into outside source. Let's cross to Ros Atkins

:58:33.:58:39.

in our central London studio for a closer look at

:58:40.:58:41.

what we know about the cause We will take a few minutes to look

:58:42.:58:49.

at what we never Grenfell Tower. It is in west London in an area called

:58:50.:58:57.

North Kensington. You can see it marked that with football pitches

:58:58.:59:02.

nearby. This is what is happening to the tower just half an hour after

:59:03.:59:06.

the first calls went into the emergency services just before one

:59:07.:59:10.

o'clock in the morning but almost the entire building became engulfed

:59:11.:59:14.

very quickly which raises questions about the construction of the tower.

:59:15.:59:19.

This is an architectural design of the building, we have marked the

:59:20.:59:21.

fourth floor in green because that is where we believe the fire

:59:22.:59:26.

originated but there are 24 stories in total, 20 of which are

:59:27.:59:30.

residential. As you can see in this diagram which is one floor it is

:59:31.:59:43.

divided into six flats and that makes up 120 in the building in

:59:44.:59:45.

total. This council flats were managed by the Kensington and

:59:46.:59:47.

Chelsea tenant management organisation on behalf of the royal

:59:48.:59:49.

borough of Kensington and Chelsea. We know this but recently underwent

:59:50.:59:54.

refurbishment which cost in the region of ?10 million. He is one

:59:55.:59:57.

councillor talking about the refurbishments. It has been recently

:59:58.:00:03.

refurbished and clad, they replaced the kitchens and the heating system

:00:04.:00:07.

so I would have thought it would have been the safest tower block in

:00:08.:00:11.

the borough. We have had fires in tower blocks before but nothing like

:00:12.:00:15.

this. The counsellor talked about new cladding and there are questions

:00:16.:00:19.

being asked about whether the new cladding contributed to the speed at

:00:20.:00:23.

which the fire spread. Clearly, something went catastrophically

:00:24.:00:27.

wrong here, the BBC spoke to one fire and building expert who said

:00:28.:00:29.

this block didn't perform in the way you would expect a building

:00:30.:00:45.

to perform, you would expect the fire to be contained to an

:00:46.:00:48.

individual apartment but he goes on to say something has gone

:00:49.:00:50.

dramatically wrong here. We know the company that carried out the

:00:51.:00:52.

refurbishment work has put out a statement saying its work met all

:00:53.:00:54.

fire regulation and health and safety standards. We also know

:00:55.:00:58.

residents had raised safety concerns back in November last year, this is

:00:59.:01:04.

a blog post from the Grenfell Tower action group. In this post, the

:01:05.:01:10.

group raises fire safety concerns analytic uses the towers landlord,

:01:11.:01:15.

the same talent management organisation of failing to address

:01:16.:01:21.

those concerns. The action group predicts it will not be long before

:01:22.:01:25.

the words of this blog come back to haunt the management. So many

:01:26.:01:36.

concerns, locations of heating interface units, concerns about

:01:37.:01:41.

escape and getting in and out and lighting and I heard the firearms

:01:42.:01:46.

did not go off in the building. I was not surprised. I was not

:01:47.:01:52.

surprised, shocked, terrified at the people living here but not

:01:53.:01:56.

surprised. And these signs were posted all over the tower, the signs

:01:57.:02:02.

advise residents, there is a staple policy residents unless the fire is

:02:03.:02:06.

in or affecting your flat. In other words, you are not directly

:02:07.:02:11.

impacted, stay put. This is a policy that applies to lots of these types

:02:12.:02:16.

of tower blocks in the UK since the 1950s, based on the assumption which

:02:17.:02:21.

we had a moment ago that when a fire starts it can be contained in one

:02:22.:02:26.

part of the building. Evidently in this case tragically that did not

:02:27.:02:31.

happen. The role of this kind of advice in the amount of loss of life

:02:32.:02:34.

we have seen will be one many policies and decisions that are

:02:35.:02:44.

being very urgently reviewed. That is very useful, thank you.

:02:45.:02:49.

I'm joined now by Luke Barratt, who is the business

:02:50.:02:51.

editor at Inside Housing, which is a publication

:02:52.:02:53.

The building was being refurbished between 2015 and 2016 and as part of

:02:54.:03:10.

that refurbishment the heating was replaced in the building and the

:03:11.:03:14.

building is heated by pipes that run through each of the floors and in

:03:15.:03:18.

order to replace the heating, they had to change all of the pipes, take

:03:19.:03:23.

at the old pipes and put in new pipes to do that they had to replace

:03:24.:03:27.

the fire stopping in between the floors and those are fire safety

:03:28.:03:31.

systems intended to stop fire spreading from floor to floor. Plan

:03:32.:03:36.

was temporarily replace the fire stopping and put it back in but at

:03:37.:03:42.

this point questions have to be raised about what safeguards there

:03:43.:03:46.

were to ensure it was replaced properly. Furthermore, according to

:03:47.:03:50.

information released by Kensington and Chelsea Council and a Freedom of

:03:51.:03:54.

Information, the last fire risk assessment was carried out on the

:03:55.:04:01.

building in December 2015 which was before the further Schmidt was

:04:02.:04:03.

completed so one would have thought you would want to assess the

:04:04.:04:09.

building after the refurbishment. That is the point I put to the LSE,

:04:10.:04:13.

who ultimately would be responsible for that, Kensington and Chelsea

:04:14.:04:16.

tenant management organisation or the borough council? Per hour range

:04:17.:04:24.

of people involved with the refurbishment and it would be wrong

:04:25.:04:27.

to speculate who would be responsible for it. Or indeed

:04:28.:04:31.

whether fire stopping was replaced at all. For all we know, it was

:04:32.:04:36.

replaced but the question is around the safeguards as to how it was

:04:37.:04:41.

replaced. The construction company have issued a brief statement saying

:04:42.:04:46.

that when they handed building over passed all its building regulations

:04:47.:04:50.

and the tenants Organisation was quite satisfied with how it was

:04:51.:04:54.

done. Indeed. And that is why we should not jump to any conclusions

:04:55.:04:58.

at this stage about how the fire stopping was replaced. It is

:04:59.:05:07.

relevant to point out that it was not assessed fully after the

:05:08.:05:12.

refurbishment. Finally, for your report you must have spoken to the

:05:13.:05:17.

action group and residents in the block, was it clear to you they were

:05:18.:05:20.

unhappy with some of the safety measures? I did not speak to a

:05:21.:05:24.

non-personally but reading their blogs it is clear they were

:05:25.:05:29.

highlighting their concerns about the building in terms of fire and

:05:30.:05:33.

whether or not those match up to the things that we have highlighted in

:05:34.:05:40.

our articles is not certain. OK, thank you. Interestingly, tee-macro

:05:41.:05:47.

reports written on whether there should have been more fire reports

:05:48.:05:49.

after the refurbishment was done. The community here have been helping

:05:50.:05:58.

out and people going through with bags of food and water and clothing

:05:59.:06:02.

and anything they can do to help. There are lots of community centres

:06:03.:06:07.

and churches but also mosques and Ladbroke mosque is playing quite a

:06:08.:06:10.

significant role this evening. Karl Mercer has been to see them.

:06:11.:06:17.

People coming with bags and bringing food and here we are at the mosque

:06:18.:06:23.

and cultural centre just half a mile from the scene and you can see just

:06:24.:06:28.

how busy it is and if we walk inside when we arrived at 12pm there was

:06:29.:06:34.

hardly anything here, hardly anybody here but take a look at what has

:06:35.:06:38.

happened since then. Come on in. This room has been full, water and

:06:39.:06:44.

food has been taken out to those in need and if we swing around to the

:06:45.:06:47.

other side of the room, we have lots of clothes that have been donated

:06:48.:06:52.

and bedding as well. As I say, something that has been happening

:06:53.:06:56.

across west London this afternoon, people walking up to us and offering

:06:57.:07:01.

us assistance but we are joined by the Chief Executive of the cultural

:07:02.:07:07.

centre and the mosque. A difficult day for the community. That is the

:07:08.:07:16.

situation, unfortunately, many people are worried about their loved

:07:17.:07:20.

ones, there are people who do not know what happened to their loved

:07:21.:07:24.

ones, they have no information. In the meantime, we are trying to do

:07:25.:07:29.

our best to offer every help people need, we have been inundated with

:07:30.:07:34.

the generosity of the community people have been calling us from

:07:35.:07:38.

Gatwick and Luton to offer any assistance we need, supplying us

:07:39.:07:45.

with food, blankets, everything. Some of your staff have families and

:07:46.:07:52.

many worshippers will worship here? Yes, staff members have family

:07:53.:07:55.

members in the building and we do not know what happened to them.

:07:56.:08:00.

Worshippers as well, so it is quite a difficult situation we are in but

:08:01.:08:04.

who are trying to cope by providing all the emotional and material

:08:05.:08:09.

support the community needs. Thank you very much. The effort continues

:08:10.:08:16.

here and it will continue through the night. And across other parts

:08:17.:08:17.

close to the fire. We heard from Luke Barrett, who

:08:18.:08:30.

raised concerns that a fire check was not done after the refurbishment

:08:31.:08:32.

is on Grenfell Tower,... speak to Tony Devenish

:08:33.:08:36.

is the Conservative London Assembly Member for West Central and sits

:08:37.:08:39.

on the Housing, Planning Listening to the interview with Luke

:08:40.:08:49.

Barrett who works for inside housing saying his concern was a fire check

:08:50.:08:53.

was not done after the refurbishment, with that concern

:08:54.:08:58.

you? I think I would start by saying it is amazing what the emergency

:08:59.:09:02.

services have done today and how the community has come together. All the

:09:03.:09:07.

issues you are talking about are valuable issues but they offer

:09:08.:09:11.

tomorrow and the Greeks going forward about a focus on the good

:09:12.:09:15.

news in terms of the community getting together this is a serious

:09:16.:09:20.

loss of life and clearly we cannot jump to conclusions on the technical

:09:21.:09:26.

aspects you were discussing earlier. No, quite right. It is too early to

:09:27.:09:31.

jump to conclusions. There will be a lot of people in housing blocks, not

:09:32.:09:36.

just in London were to run the country who will be concerned about

:09:37.:09:39.

renovations done on their blocks, should they be worried and do we

:09:40.:09:43.

need to look closer at some of the renovations that have been done?

:09:44.:09:48.

They should not be worried, we do not want to get wild speculation but

:09:49.:09:52.

I know local authorities all that is looking into this as of this morning

:09:53.:09:55.

and my local authority is doing so and I'm sure many others across the

:09:56.:10:01.

country are so, yes, we need to be going into the detail and they will

:10:02.:10:04.

be reviewed but we do not want to worry people unnecessarily. I accept

:10:05.:10:10.

that that while the review is taking place, will you have to take extra

:10:11.:10:15.

precautions, fire wardens at some of these blocks around the country? I

:10:16.:10:19.

was in a meeting earlier and we are looking at various measures, I do

:10:20.:10:23.

not want to speculate on specifics but I can assure you a lot of work

:10:24.:10:27.

is all ready and away across London, I cannot speak to the rest of the

:10:28.:10:34.

country. When you sit in the London assembly and talk about housing,

:10:35.:10:38.

there is huge pressure on housing, of these kind of housing blocks, are

:10:39.:10:44.

they still valid option? Will need a real mix of housing, the mayor... It

:10:45.:10:49.

is a cross-party issue, we all agree we need more housing and a mixture

:10:50.:10:54.

so yes, tower blocks in certain parts are part of the solution but

:10:55.:10:59.

not across all parts of London. I had a great believer in democratic

:11:00.:11:04.

accountability and local authorities and each have their own community

:11:05.:11:07.

aspects and are looking at the issue, some areas do like tower

:11:08.:11:10.

blocks as part of the mix, some do not. Yes, after an incident like

:11:11.:11:18.

this, would there be a review about some of the emergency provisions in

:11:19.:11:22.

a housing block like this, many people have talked about the one

:11:23.:11:29.

exit, one stairwell out of the building, presumably it is possible

:11:30.:11:31.

to build buildings that are more modern with proper exits, maybe two

:11:32.:11:38.

and buildings with water sprinklers fitted? Or those aspects will be

:11:39.:11:43.

looked at in due course, absolutely as crucial things we should look at

:11:44.:11:48.

after this serious loss of life. I will not speculate on a point by

:11:49.:11:55.

point basis, that would be wrong. OK, good of you to join us. Thank

:11:56.:12:00.

you very much. Plenty of people are milling around. Whereabouts do you

:12:01.:12:11.

live, Ben? A kilometre away in another block tower and I can tell

:12:12.:12:15.

you it is very disconcerting to walk out of my front door, I'm a

:12:16.:12:18.

film-maker and used to work in Hollywood and it looked like a

:12:19.:12:22.

disaster movie. It was crazy. Were you woken in the night were you

:12:23.:12:27.

aware of what was going on? Not until this morning when I have a

:12:28.:12:33.

helicopter circling. And your first instinct is take a photo but then

:12:34.:12:38.

see what you can do to help. We had from Tony Devenish from the London

:12:39.:12:41.

assembly saying people do not need to panic, Richard remain calm about

:12:42.:12:45.

the blocks they live in adage is any natural after something like that

:12:46.:12:49.

that you start to think about how would I get out of my block and is

:12:50.:12:53.

my blocks safe and what provisions are there? Yeah, it is important to

:12:54.:12:57.

be prepared for the situations and to look around your block of flats

:12:58.:13:01.

and plan an escape route if something were to happen. We have

:13:02.:13:06.

two stairwells and I know with the dry rises are and I'm aware of it, I

:13:07.:13:10.

live on the seventh floor and I think if I had to jump I might

:13:11.:13:15.

survive. That is the horrifying thing that we heard, people had to

:13:16.:13:19.

make that decision. Yeah, that is something I would not want to do. If

:13:20.:13:25.

anyone is up on the top, they really do not stand a chance. It was fully

:13:26.:13:30.

involved. Have you been getting involved with people today? I made a

:13:31.:13:36.

movie about what is going on, seeing the firemen who had been their first

:13:37.:13:41.

responders completely devastated, people offering them water, streets

:13:42.:13:47.

are full of locals and all I saw was compassion for what had happened and

:13:48.:13:50.

people trying to help in they could. I went and offered at one of the

:13:51.:13:55.

local centres to let them know I have a spare room. OK, we will pause

:13:56.:13:59.

for a moment. The reaction of the community has

:14:00.:14:13.

been quite extraordinary. I have watched people come and go with all

:14:14.:14:17.

sorts, bags of shopping, clothes, toiletries, toothbrushes. It looked

:14:18.:14:23.

like a parade, people were pulling up with bags and unloading boxes and

:14:24.:14:32.

blankets and food and that outpouring of desire to pitch in, I

:14:33.:14:36.

have never seen anything like that and I have a great admiration for

:14:37.:14:39.

London in general and the British people that they just immediately

:14:40.:14:43.

step in and want to do the right thing. I saw one picture of the

:14:44.:14:48.

firefighters, the men and women who been up and down the tower all-day,

:14:49.:14:54.

in incredible conditions, the smoke in the stairwells, a hot day as

:14:55.:14:59.

well, your hat goes off to them. Indeed, I had a chat with some of

:15:00.:15:03.

them and some of them had been there since one o'clock in the morning and

:15:04.:15:06.

this was at eight o'clock that they had done a full shift, they were

:15:07.:15:10.

drenched with sweat, some had tears in their eyes, some had to sit down

:15:11.:15:14.

and I was giving them their space and letting them process this but

:15:15.:15:20.

they were devastated. Then, thank you for coming to talk to us. We

:15:21.:15:25.

will be here in the next few minutes, will carry on our coverage

:15:26.:15:31.

down here at tower but for the moment will pause and get some

:15:32.:15:32.

weather. Temperatures reached 27 degrees this

:15:33.:15:41.

afternoon falling short of other parts of Western Europe where there

:15:42.:15:48.

is a real summer heatwave, 34 degrees in Toulouse

:15:49.:15:49.

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