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temperatures rise once again, turning warmer, with parts of | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
south-east England by Sunday near 30 Celsius. That is the latest | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
forecast, back to you. Thank you very much. Before we end | :00:00. | :00:11. | |
the programme, let's go to one of the community centres that has been | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
opened to help people who have lived here and lost everything, lost their | :00:16. | :00:16. | |
homes. Lucy Manning is there. What is so | :00:17. | :00:25. | |
striking is that there still seem to be so many people, missing so many | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
people being searched for? Unfortunately, that is right. You | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
walk around the streets here today and it goes without saying that | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
there is a real sense of grief. Everybody is talking about who they | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
know that was in the block and where they might be now. Frankly, not | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
everybody is accounted for and they expect that there will be more | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
deaths. I have spent most of the afternoon and all morning in the | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
community centre behind me, in the basement in the hall, tables are set | :00:57. | :01:01. | |
out. Families at each table. Some of the families are telling me they | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
felt very lucky. They have lost everything, their homes, all of | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
their possessions, but they had at least made it out alive. On other | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
tables, families more quiet, on phones, trying to speak to relatives | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
that they had sent around the hospital is looking for other | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
relatives. We kept popping back and saying, any news? There was a sad | :01:23. | :01:28. | |
shake of the head. They just want information. Unfortunately, that is | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
the one thing that there isn't at the moment. Along with the grief and | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
sadness, there is also anger. Speaking to some of the residents, | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
they are some of the same people that raised concerns, as they think, | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
about the safety in the tower block. The residents are angry that nothing | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
was done and a fire happened, that this has happened to them. Also, a | :01:51. | :01:55. | |
real sense of community here. People are helping out. There has been an | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
amazing response at the community centre. People here, I think, it has | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
been a very, very difficult day for them. People on the street want | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
answers. It is the one thing that can't be given to them. I think it | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
is true, very unfortunately, that some of the people that are missing, | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
perhaps many of them, the death toll is going to rise and we will not | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
have any good answers for them at all. Lucy Manning, thank you. What | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
we know now is that at least 12 people have died. Dozens have been | :02:30. | :02:34. | |
injured. The death toll, we are being told, is expected to rise. We | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
will have an -- continuing coverage throughout the afternoon. | :02:44. | :02:58. | |
block which you can see smoke is still coming from the building on | :02:59. | :03:06. | |
the 15th floor. You can see flames depending on when the wind turns | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
this way, flames and letting the side of the building, which is why | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
we've been told to wear these facemasks, because there is debris, | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
cert and dirt on the air. Their rockets flying around, this is | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
directly from the building itself. These are on the streets. They have | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
taken days -- it will take days to clear up. A bird's eye view of the | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
building, this level of devastation has been caused, the fire began at | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
1am this morning, and it has claimed lives. Currently 12 lives is the | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
official total, but the Metropolitan Police tell us that number is likely | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
to go up. Reporters have been on the ground and around the area all day | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
from early this morning. We will be hearing from them later in the | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
programme. We will hear from Karl Mercer at a nearby mosque which | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
opened its doors to help those in need tonight, who were evacuated | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
from the tower block itself. Alice has a different vantage point of the | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
one I've got now. Firstly, I think we should hear from those affected | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
most. People who tonight are counting themselves lucky to escape | :04:20. | :04:25. | |
alive. People who lost their homes and in many cases, people who have | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
lost just about everything they own... Today is the 14th of June... | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
2am, I was woken up by the siren noise. | :04:37. | :04:38. | |
We ran downstairs, it took us a solid four minutes to get out, | :04:39. | :04:53. | |
just as I was entering the ground floor, the fire | :04:54. | :04:55. | |
I looked down and there was fire on the left side. | :04:56. | :05:06. | |
Every minute, it was getting worse and worse. | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
People were in the building after an hour. | :05:10. | :05:18. | |
The people screaming, the worst thing. | :05:19. | :05:52. | |
People were calling out and asking what floor they were on. | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
There were people on the tenth and 11th floors, where | :05:57. | :05:58. | |
they were actually using the fire hoses, and they saw people waving | :05:59. | :06:01. | |
from the windows and a woman screaming that she had | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
Already, she's out, but her brother and wife | :06:05. | :06:14. | |
We don't know if they are safe or not. | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
For me, the one image that sticks in my mind was seeing a family | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
waving what appeared to be a towel for around an hour. | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
There was a helicopter coming about 400 metres from their window, | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
For me, the thing I took from this was how agonising must that have | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
been for that family, when they were there. | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
We watched them stop moving from the street. | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
This is one of my main concerns about living in a tower block. | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
On Saturday, we did have the fire brigade team come around and speak | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
They told us that the protocol was to close your door | :06:58. | :07:08. | |
because the fire door will withstand the heat for a duration of time. | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
But I think what has happened is they haven't understood | :07:12. | :07:13. | |
that the fire had spread around the building. | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
That is wrong information for that building and | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
If you are staying in your house, you could still be trapped. | :07:18. | :07:24. | |
If you had stayed... If I listen to the advice given to me by the fire | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
brigade and by the TMO management team, we could be dead. You've got | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
family on the 18th floor, and you spoke to them last night? What were | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
they saying? Smoke. They couldn't get out because of the smoke. I | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
asked... I don't know what I would do if I was him. He just stayed in | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
the room, hoping the fire brigade would get up there. That is what | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
they were told? Yeah, they stayed in there to follow the instructions. | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Not much you could do from the 80th floor and they cannot fly. -- 18th. | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
He was like an older brother, always looking after me. What is the | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
latest? Apparently it has been confirmed that he has passed, due to | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
the chemicals from the building, in the hospital... I just... I don't | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
know what to think. The moment that building went up, how, why? There | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
are a lot of questions to be asked. The | :08:32. | :08:31. | |
voices of those affected by the tower block fire in the early hours | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
of the morning. I noticed as soon as I came to the area this afternoon to | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
see the fire myself, people were approaching me immediately and | :08:42. | :08:42. | |
asking if we had heard from their loved ones, | :08:43. | :08:56. | |
one of those people is Ray Fiasco, tell us about them? A good friend of | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
mine. Her and her mother, the last we heard from them was at 3:30am. | :09:02. | :09:14. | |
Did you hear from them on the phone? No, they were messaging a friend on | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
Twitter. As soon as he heard, he got there and from 2:30am to 3:30am, | :09:21. | :09:28. | |
they lost contact. I woke up to a phone call saying to check the news, | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
Khadija is in there. I could not get through. I turned to social media | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
and I thought, you know what? Maybe someone has seen her. You are | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
handing out leaflets in the area. All the best of luck. I hope you do | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
find Khadija. That is typical of a number of people in the area. It | :09:47. | :09:51. | |
seems to me, London is a huge city with millions of people inside. When | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
it comes to a tragedy, Londoners behave like one community, as you | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
would expect in a small village somewhere, of people coming together | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
and supporting those in need. Karl Mercer is in a mosque a short | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
distance from where I am now. He's been looking to see how people are | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
doing just that, and coming together. Karl? Yes, we've seen it | :10:12. | :10:18. | |
across west London all afternoon, people coming with bags and bringing | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
food. Here we are, just about half a mile from the scene. You can see | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
just how busy it is. If you take a walk inside, when we arrived at 12 | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
o'clock this afternoon, there was hardly anything here. Hardly anybody | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
here. But, take a look at what has happened since. This room has been | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
full, a lot of water and food from here has already been taken to those | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
in need. If we swing to the other side of the room, we've got a lot of | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
clothes donated and a lot of bedding as well. As I say, it is something | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
that's been happening across West London this afternoon. People have | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
been approaching us as well and offering us assistance. We are now | :11:00. | :11:05. | |
joined by the chief executive of the cultural centre and mosque here. | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
Abdul-Rahman Kassig Ede, a very difficult day for you and many | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
worshippers he would also have suffered? Yes, people worried about | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
their loved ones. People do not know what happened to their loved ones. | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
They do not have any information but in the meantime, we are doing our | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
best to offer all the help people need. We've been inundated with the | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
generosity of the community. People have called us from as far as Luton | :11:36. | :11:42. | |
and Gatwick to offer us assistance, supplying us with food and blankets. | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
And it has been very personal for the cultural centre and mosque as | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
well, some of your staff have family and many of the worshippers would | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
have worshipped here? Yes, some worshippers have family in the | :11:57. | :11:58. | |
building and don't know what happened to them. Worshippers as | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
well. It is a difficult situation we are in but we are trying to cope by | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
providing emotional and material support the community needs, as a | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
centre. We have deleted there. Thank you very much. As you can see, the | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
effort continues here -- we have to leave it there. It's been a | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
difficult day for people who have been losing their homes, and our | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
correspondence Catherine Carpenter has been finding out their stories | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
of the day. Thank you very much. A neighbour brings 88 of Mary Dennis a | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
chair, she's been awake since the early hours when she fled her home | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
afraid and confused. I heard banging on my door, bang, bang. I did not | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
get up. But what happened, when they banged it and I got up... They said | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
to evacuate out, out. There is fire. I rang in my nightie. There was | :13:00. | :13:06. | |
enough screaming, children screaming, everybody screaming. | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
Another neighbour offers food and water. Thiago says he needs to keep | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
busy so he does not dwell on what he heard and what he saw. I could hear | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
people from the tower, there were a lot of casualties, and they said | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
people were jumping from the building... Overnight, Saint Clement | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
's Church became his century. Here and at every rescue centre, | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
donations have flooded in all day -- sanctuary. We are Londoners. | :13:39. | :13:45. | |
Everybody is a London. We had to help each other. I've been here all | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
morning. I have older clothes for older people this time... I will | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
help you. Thank you, darling. This morning it was kids clothes. I've | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
seen loads of locals coming down. This mosque counts many Grenfell | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
Tower residence among its worshippers. Today they were sorting | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
clothes and cooking, for those breaking fast tonight or in need | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
after the longest of days. Other members of the community took people | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
into their homes. At least three families crammed into this terrace | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
in the early hours. My son is asthmatic and was having an asthma | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
attack. As soon as she saw us, this woman took as an here. If not, we | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
would have been out all night. Also taken in, this four-month-old. Her | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
bed for the night is a stranger's sober while her mother waits for | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
news of missing friends. -- sofa. Catherine Carpenter, BBC London | :14:46. | :14:47. | |
news. As you can see, the charity effort | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
continues and will continue late into the night. My colleague has | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
been out today talking to people living in the area about their fears | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
of living in high-rise blocks. That's right. I've been here all | :14:58. | :15:08. | |
day. I am now on the balcony of a low-rise block, just on Bromley | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
Road, as you can see right in front of the Grenfell Tower. I've been in | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
the area all day, speaking to people. Some local residents and | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
some from outside the area, who have come to offer their help and | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
support. I've also been speaking to firefighters, I spoke to some this | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
morning coming off shift. They've been here for 12 hours. They told me | :15:29. | :15:35. | |
when they arrived at this fire it was too dangerous to go in. Debris | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
was falling. It was only when riot police were able to make a tunnel | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
out of shields that they were able to enter the building. As you can | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
imagine, people living in this block saw exactly what happened next door, | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
as well as people living in all of these tower blocks. There are plenty | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
around here. The fire raises questions about the safety of | :15:57. | :16:02. | |
London's tower blocks. In 2009 there were recommendations made after a | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
similar fire in Southwark, but critics say some of the | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
recommendations haven't been followed, and lessons have not been | :16:12. | :16:14. | |
learned. Here is our correspondence Tom Edwards. Knowing full well, when | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
you are watching this that people are not going to be OK, that this | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
isn't going to be OK, this isn't going to end well... Yeah, it's | :16:27. | :16:28. | |
heartbreaking. REPORTER: Angela lives on the 90th | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
floor in the block opposite Grenfell Tower. After last night, she is now | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
extremely concerned about the fire risk in her own building -- 19th | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
floor. What came to mind at 3am this morning is what is the security | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
protocol in this building, if something similar were to happen? | :16:47. | :16:57. | |
What would I do and where would my parents go? How would we leave | :16:58. | :17:00. | |
quickly? This fire raises questions about London's housing stock. The | :17:01. | :17:02. | |
last major fatal fire was in Southwark in 2009 where six people | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
died. The coroner made recommendations, | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
there should be clarity of residents should stay put or get out. | :17:13. | :17:17. | |
Councils should retrofit sprinklers and simplify building regulations | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
about what can be changed. The chances of getting a fire are very | :17:21. | :17:26. | |
low... In 2010 the London assembly also highlighted concerns about the | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
capital's high-rise housing stock. We found that there was a relatively | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
low risk of actually having a fire in a tall loading. Really, you are | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
fairly safe but the problem is if there is a fire, advice is often not | :17:41. | :17:47. | |
given about the right way to behave and information not being given to | :17:48. | :17:50. | |
tenants by landlords and councils not giving advice to landlords. | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
According to city hall, 8% of London's population live in | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
high-rise flats, blocks over 11 stories tall. | :18:01. | :18:30. | |
Lessons have not been learned. Today is an absolute tragedy and it is | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
caused by the lack of proper regulation of refurbishment | :18:39. | :18:40. | |
standards. The government have been pressed for a number of years by the | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
all-party and to committee on safety to do a review of the building | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
regulations to test the integrity of the tools that are used in | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
refurbishment and they have continually put this off. The | :18:56. | :18:59. | |
government says that work is still ongoing and checks will now be | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
carried out on blocks going through similar refurbishment. But there is | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
now anger and questions. What happened in luck in our house, after | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
it had been refurbished, the verve furbish and had of the fire -- the | :19:13. | :19:21. | |
refurbishment had compromised the fire compartmentalised age and and | :19:22. | :19:26. | |
it didn't compartmentalised. It seems like that is what has happened | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
in Grenfell Tower and people lost their lives. There has been a lot of | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
talk around external cladding, making sure that tower blocks of | :19:35. | :19:42. | |
fire proofed inside properly and compartmentalised, meaning that a | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
buyer should not be spread from within a flat where it breaks out, | :19:46. | :19:49. | |
enabling the fire brigade to get there and deal with the incident. | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
It's difficult to see why this has happened and there are no excuses | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
for it. This man also lives in the block opposite. He hasn't been able | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
to contact a friend who lived in Grenfell Tower. Where the claims | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
are, it if you move to the right, there is a gap there by the smoke, | :20:09. | :20:15. | |
that is where she used to live. While it isn't clear why this fire | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
happened, it is very clear that safeguards failed. | :20:20. | :20:28. | |
As we have been hearing, this tower block, Grenfell Tower, underwent a | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
?10 million refurbishment that was completed last year and tonight, the | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
fire minister has said they will be carrying out emergency | :20:37. | :20:43. | |
investigations on every tower block undergoing similar refurbishment. | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
Part of the refurbishment included new cladding so questions are now | :20:48. | :20:50. | |
being asked about the risks posed by that cladding as Gareth Burbidge | :20:51. | :20:57. | |
reports. Arnold tiling is a fire safety expert and he's about to | :20:58. | :21:05. | |
carry out a test. The reason he is doing this is because he has a | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
theory about why the fire spread so rapidly at the Grenfell Tower. And | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
it's to do with the material that may have been used when cladding was | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
fitted. The actual rigid board installation that I believe is most | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
likely to have been used is made from the same material, | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
polyurethane. I am now setting fire to this and this is the rate at | :21:29. | :21:33. | |
which it burns. That is very, very rapid and this is a typical material | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
used for insulating the external part of buildings. This test was put | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
out easily but he thinks terms of similar materials could have quickly | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
burned out of control. A baby that I have is that the building has been | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
clad with a flammable insulation material on the exterior. Of course, | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
there is no official statement yet on the cause of the fire and the | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
reason for its rapid spread. But three years ago, at a safety | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
conference, Arnold tiling publicly warned that cladding high-rise | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
buildings could end in disaster and now he fears he may have been proved | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
right. Yes, it looks typical of a cladding related fire on the | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
exterior of the property. All the external cladding has completely | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
gone, which is what you would expect if you have got flammable materials. | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
The principle of the design of the cladding is that it's there to allow | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
rain to effectively get in and run down that cavity. The problem is | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
that it will also allow fire to spread up and what will happen is it | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
will actually create a path for the fire to spread and encourage the | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
fire to spread faster and more intensely. A spokesperson for the | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
contractors who completed the refurbishment last year said it met | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
all required building control by regulation and health and safety | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
standards. -- by regulation and health and safety standards. Another | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
company involved said it would not be appropriate to comment or for | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
others to speculate on any aspect of the fire or its courses in advance | :23:16. | :23:18. | |
of the enquiries. At this time, the company said it was not aware of any | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
link between the buyer and -- between the fire and the exterior | :23:26. | :23:32. | |
cladding. Back here across the road from Grenfell Tower, I am joined by | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
Jim Fitzpatrick, MP, a former firefighter himself, and Archbishop | :23:37. | :23:42. | |
Justin Welby, the Archbishop of Canterbury. What we are seeing is a | :23:43. | :23:50. | |
real coming together of people, of communities, Archbishop, helping | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
each other? It has been the most extraordinary sight around here. | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
People filling out churches but people from all faiths using the | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
church buildings, using holes, using whatever centres they can find, | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
working together, huge teams of volunteers together working | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
effectively. As someone said to me earlier, it's the community of | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
Christ in hospitality, in partnership with everybody else and | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
everyone can just get stuck in. And then of course this extraordinary | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
work by the emergency services. I've been with them, talking to them, and | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
just exhaustion written across their faces. Stress and yet courage. And | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
this is what is becoming typical of London, the way people come | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
together. They forget their differences. Ed Smith -- its | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
mosques, synagogues, all areas taking in people as well as | :24:48. | :24:52. | |
churches. Absolutely. As we have seen, and we saw in Manchester as | :24:53. | :24:56. | |
well, everyone coming together when there is a tragedy on this scale and | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
just an outpouring of the most extraordinary love and generosity | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
and people just getting stuck in. Putting their own interests aside. | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
It's incredible. Jim Fitzpatrick, you were firefighter yourself. What | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
were your first thoughts when you heard about the fire? I turned on my | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
TV and saw the pictures coming from here and I was totally shocked and | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
images. There was awareness growing images. There was awareness growing | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
of a state that thought, where some people say they were told to stay | :25:35. | :25:41. | |
put in the tower block in case of a fire. What do you say about that? | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
That is normally advice given to people because every flat is | :25:45. | :25:49. | |
self-contained and the fire doors, if they are up to specification, | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
should give an hour to everyone inside. You normally advice would be | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
to stay indoors, the fire brigade turn up and they can take control | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
and make a decision. Clearly when they turned up here at 1am, the fire | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
had a hold, the rapidity of spread meant that advice changed and | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
firefighters were trying to get people out of the building. There is | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
different advice for different circumstances, but normally it is | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
safer to stay in the building, inside the flat you worrying if the | :26:18. | :26:21. | |
building does catch fire until you are advised by the emergency | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
services what you should do. What is your thought on how we can stop | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
something like that happening again? We can stop this happening. | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
Sprinkler systems would have prevented this fire going further | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
than one room and one flat. The tower block in Southwark where six | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
people died in 2009, recommendations were made and we have been asking | :26:45. | :26:52. | |
for a review since 2013, asking the government when they are going to | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
issue the review of standards, because buildings are different now | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
from when this was built in 1974. London's skyline is showing | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
different structures, different materials. There are different risks | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
and we need to stay ahead of the curve and that is not what has | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
happened here. We could have prevented this. What is your advice | :27:13. | :27:15. | |
to people who are still looking for missing loved ones this evening? Get | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
help, be alongside with other people, don't be by yourself, | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
because the pressure is so extreme. Find someone, there are so many | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
people around, go to one of the community centres, one of the | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
churches and say, I am looking. There are grief counsellors, | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
doctors, all sorts of people. They will help you. Don't be by yourself. | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
That's the main advice. Secondly, to know that the whole country is | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
standing at your side and grieving and worrying with you. Archbishop, | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
that is good advice. We are sadly out of time. For those people who | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
are looking for loved ones, the Metropolitan Police have opened up a | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
dedicated line to help those people. It's on your screen now. It's the | :28:02. | :28:06. | |
Metropolitan Police casualty bureau, oh 800 0961 26 -- too creepy. | :28:07. | :28:25. | |
Welcome to west London. This is the scene this evening, still | :28:26. | :28:35. | |
smouldering, home to some 600 people, 24 floors of accommodation | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
now reduced to a black and Hulk. Through the day we have heard all | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
sorts of accounts from residents. Spare a thought for those who left | :28:45. | :28:49. | |
the building last night in the early hours of the morning, coming out of | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
their apartments into thick smoke and coming through today knowing | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
they have lost their worldly possessions and tonight they must | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
find emergency accommodation. It has been a very difficult day for the | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
residents here, but at least the community have rallied around them. | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
We will hear stories of how people are helping. Accommodation, showers, | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
really helping in any way they can after what people have been three. | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
In the last short while, we have heard from the London Fire Brigade. | :29:19. | :29:21. | |
We know the firefighters have made it to the top of the building. That | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
doesn't mean they have done a research of the upper apartments but | :29:27. | :29:29. | |
they have managed to get to the top to assess the situation up there. | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
Structurally, it is still standing but obviously there are structural | :29:34. | :29:37. | |
engineers here, taking a view of the property as it continues to burn and | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
ensuring that the firemen who are working around it, and there are | :29:44. | :29:46. | |
still plenty of them here, that they are safe. There is plenty of debris | :29:47. | :29:50. | |
and masonry still falling off the building, so it is a very unsafe | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
atmosphere. You will see from the pictures of the building that they | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
have managed to get a hydraulic crane up. They are targeting water | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
into the centre of the building remotely said that they don't have | :30:02. | :30:04. | |
to put officers in danger's way. Let's speak to someone who has been | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
involved today. His aunt was in the building last | :30:07. | :30:15. | |
night. Did you manage to get out safely? Where was she? Luckily, she | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
managed to get out safely. She was on the second floor of the Grenfell | :30:21. | :30:24. | |
Tower. When I arrived at 1am, the whole of one side of the facade was | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
engulfed in flames. I have been there ever since. I haven't at the | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
site, haven't gone home yet. Within four hours, the whole building had | :30:34. | :30:38. | |
gone up. As each hour went on, I think the exterior, the power -- the | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
panels, the cladding, that was catching fire and spreading the | :30:45. | :30:47. | |
inferno around the building. But it was definitely on one side. I was in | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
east London at the time that I got the phone call about the tower being | :30:52. | :30:57. | |
on fire and as I drove down the a 40, you could see it for miles. | :30:58. | :31:04. | |
Where was your aunt when you got the call? When I got the call, she was | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
at home. Thankfully, someone had alerted her before I called her, so | :31:12. | :31:19. | |
she takes it has something, I'm OK. She left promptly, as clean as she | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
could. -- as soon as she could. She does suffer with arthritis but luck | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
she believed she was on a lower level, so it was easy for her to get | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
out. I think anyone above a certain flaw in that tower block either | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
struggled or didn't get out. How long has your aunt lived here? Many | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
I've imagine she has been here about I've imagine she has been here about | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
the same. Did she have concerns about the building? This area, it is | :31:50. | :31:55. | |
close around here and when people talk, word gets around and everyone | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
gets involved in other peoples business. Grenfell Tower has a bit | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
of history of issues in the past. It's something we've always been | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
aware of. Something was done about it, I'm not too sure. I don't live | :32:08. | :32:11. | |
in the block myself. I live across from it. It was only refurbished | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
about a year ago, so you would have thought if there were safety | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
concerns, they would have been taken care of when work was done. Was she | :32:20. | :32:23. | |
asleep when the render -- when the fire began? It was 2am, so she would | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
have been asleep. Most people would have been. Where these stairwells | :32:29. | :32:42. | |
full of smoke? She ran out. So she ignored the advice to stay? | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
Absolutely. In that instance, you go into survival mode and luckily I saw | :32:48. | :32:54. | |
her safe and well. I could say that I could put my worries to rest but | :32:55. | :32:59. | |
there are friends of ours that we still haven't heard from. Presumably | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
she knows many of the people here because she has lived in for so | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
long? Absolutely. Some of the people in that have lived there for 30 plus | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
years. It's affected not only the people in that building but everyone | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
around it. If you look around here, there are people from other places | :33:17. | :33:21. | |
that have come just to help, for food, from all religions, all races. | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
Everything has been put aside for today and it's a matching -- it's | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
amazing to watch. The police, the fire brigade, all the emergency | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
services helping. It's absolutely amazing, breathtaking. Finally, | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
where is she going to go tonight? Are you housing her? I will house | :33:38. | :33:44. | |
her by all means if necessary. She is a very strong woman, my aunt, and | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
will do all she can to sort this out for herself. We will always be there | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
for her. At the moment, she has got to lovely sons, my cousins, and they | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
are doing a good job of looking after her. Thank you for speaking to | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
us. His aunt was in the building last night but glad to say she got | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
out safely. There has been an extraordinary effort, as he said, | :34:08. | :34:18. | |
today. Some people have showered locally and giving them closer they | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
can get to the end of the day. Tonight, of course, people looking | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
for emergency accommodation. Some hotels in the area offering | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
accommodation and some concerns that Kensington and Chelsea Council are | :34:34. | :34:35. | |
doing enough for neighbouring council blocks that have had to | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
vacate. We will hear more about that in a second but let's hear most -- | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
first from our correspondent, Lucy Manning. | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
The air was punctuated with the sound of crying. | :34:50. | :34:50. | |
They gathered outside the community centre. | :34:51. | :34:57. | |
The one thing nobody could offer was good news. | :34:58. | :35:05. | |
For this family, it was, understandably, too much. | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
My mum, my sister, her daughters and husband. | :35:11. | :35:12. | |
I don't know if they are out, we don't have any information. | :35:13. | :35:21. | |
She gave us this picture of her three smiling neices. | :35:22. | :35:23. | |
You haven't been able to contact them? | :35:24. | :35:35. | |
I phoned my sister, all I could hear was screaming. | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
I was trying to tell her, get out, get to the nearest fire exit. | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
The police officers heard me shouting on the phone. | :35:43. | :35:56. | |
I really just wanted to go in there, basically, do something. | :35:57. | :35:59. | |
In the last hour, she heard news that someone might have | :36:00. | :36:11. | |
After the panic of the night, the day brought only silence. | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
I haven't seen my brother-in-law, his wife and three children. | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
The children are aged 20, the boy is 20. | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
He spoke to them as they were trapped. | :36:24. | :36:31. | |
She said her husband was talking to the emergency people. | :36:32. | :36:42. | |
They said, they are coming to get us, but the heat | :36:43. | :36:45. | |
I said, get a wet blanket, but the kids on the floor | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
She said, we can't do it, because the smoke is killing us, | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
The smoke is coming through the doors. | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
She is keeping covering it, but it is heavy. | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
That was the last time we have heard from her. | :37:02. | :37:03. | |
For those on the lower floors that did make it out, | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
I woke up at about 12.45, hearing, help me, a woman screaming, my baby, | :37:07. | :37:16. | |
The police were knocking on the doors, evacuate, evacuate. | :37:17. | :37:31. | |
We thought we had to get the hell out of here, it is going up. | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
Ed was saved by his friend calling him and telling him to leave. | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
The smoke was so thick, you couldn't see anything. | :37:40. | :37:42. | |
I got three quarters of the way and then I was using my hands | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
I began thinking to myself, this is going to be me, you know? | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
I'm going to die of smoke inhalation. | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
There was actually a fireman lying on the ground. | :37:57. | :37:57. | |
He just touched my foot and led me to wear the fire exit was. | :37:58. | :38:10. | |
Ed was instrumental in raising concerns about the safety | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
This accident never needed to happen. | :38:14. | :38:19. | |
If people had listened to what we were saying, | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
what the blog was saying, what members of the | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
This accident never needed to happen. | :38:28. | :38:38. | |
Inside the centre, those waiting for news or that have | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
lost their homes are covered downstairs in the hall. | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
As you can imagine, it is a fairly distressing situation. | :38:44. | :38:46. | |
At times, people are sobbing as they wait for news. | :38:47. | :38:52. | |
News that, at this stage, will possibly not be good news. | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
They are getting help with housing, with food, and the medical help. | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
Now, it is not just the burned-out building that looms over this | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
community, but the fear that they will hear that many more | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
No doubt we are going to be facing, I think, some sad use in the hours | :39:08. | :39:26. | |
ahead because that recovery and -- that recovery operation is still | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
going on. Let's speak to somebody who has been helping today, | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
providing spiritual help as well as a shoulder to climb on -- a shoulder | :39:33. | :39:42. | |
to cry on, the local bishop. You have been providing some help to the | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
firemen and the emergency service crews who have been in there. We | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
often overlook the fact they have to deal with this traumatic situations | :39:49. | :39:55. | |
as well. Exactly, right around the tower block there are Fire Service, | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
ambulance, police, all of whom are dealing with the immediate issue | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
themselves, trying to put out the fire and to see what can be done | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
with the fire antibodies that are inside. I have been spending the day | :40:09. | :40:14. | |
along with quite a lot of the clergy locally being around them, giving | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
them someone to talk to, and I think I have appreciated someone giving | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
their time to listen to their stories and allowing them to | :40:23. | :40:24. | |
unburden themselves of some of the things they have had to do today. A | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
lot of the people in the early hours lot of the people in the early hours | :40:27. | :40:34. | |
work on adrenaline, trying to get themselves to safety. Tonight, they | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
will be processing what they have been through. Tell us of some of the | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
stories you have heard and what people are doing? Some of them are | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
pretty grim stories, firefighters going into the building, not only | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
coping with the heat and the water jets are there on the hottest day of | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
the year, but also having to step over bodies and having to manage the | :40:55. | :41:01. | |
trauma of that kind of thing. Many of them are used to it. They are | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
extraordinarily professional and one of the things that struck me was how | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
Carmel. But also I think many of them realised that in the days to | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
come a lot of the memories that have affected them to day will come back. | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
They have been through this, not on this scale before, firefighters who | :41:19. | :41:21. | |
have been firefighters for 30 years and have never seen this before. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
Indeed, we heard from the commander in charge of the London Fire Brigade | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
today and she said she has been in the service for 29 years and have | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
never seen anything like this in a never seen anything like this in a | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
high-rise building. What about accommodation? There are concerns | :41:40. | :41:40. | |
that there is not enough accommodation for people. I have | :41:41. | :41:43. | |
just been down to Saint Clement Church which has been open all day, | :41:44. | :41:52. | |
since 3am, and they have been providing people with space but most | :41:53. | :41:55. | |
of the people that have been there have been taken to the Westway | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
Centre and two other places for accommodation. A lot of other | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
churches locally have set themselves up as places that people can stay. | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
St John's in Notting Hill have set aside 40 beds in the body of the | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
church will people to stay in. My hope is, the council have told us | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
that accommodation has been found. Whether we actually, whether that is | :42:16. | :42:22. | |
actually true, I guess we will know tomorrow morning. Of course, it is | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
not only those in the block. It is people around as well. It is mostly | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
that, actually. Most of the people who need a bed are those who have | :42:34. | :42:37. | |
been evacuated from the local area. I was speaking to one family who | :42:38. | :42:40. | |
were evacuated in the middle of the night last night, came out with no | :42:41. | :42:45. | |
clothes, no anything, the mother had to leave her medication in the flat | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
and they are beginning to worry about what happens when the | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
medication wears off tomorrow. There are a lot of distrust people around. | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
Of course, you get to know the -- there are a lot of distressed people | :42:59. | :43:04. | |
around. Of course you get to know the local community. I was speaking | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
to one of our Filipino priest 's early today and he is anxious about | :43:10. | :43:18. | |
a lot of his people who he knows where in the building that he hasn't | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
spoken to. There are also good news stories, speaking to a fireman who | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
brought out a survivor at 9am, up on one of the upper floors, the door | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
opens and an elderly gentleman walks out, sounded like he was blind and | :43:32. | :43:34. | |
they were able to take him out and get him out safely. One of the last | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
out of the building. So there are good news stories like that but I | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
suspect there will be a lot worse to come. Thank you for ending on a good | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
news story. Thank you for talking to us. I should just say, if you do | :43:49. | :43:52. | |
want to know anything about anyone who was trapped in the building, | :43:53. | :43:53. | |
there is a number. Well, obviously we have heard from | :43:54. | :44:16. | |
people who have been helping out here today. There will be an awful | :44:17. | :44:20. | |
lot of questions as well about buildings of this nature, high-rise | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
buildings, particularly old buildings. This one was built in | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
1973 and only has one stairwell in and out, one exit route for those | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
people on the upper floors, and there will be a lot of questions | :44:34. | :44:36. | |
asked about building regulations in the wake of this. David Shankman has | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
been looking at what might be discussed in this about. | :44:41. | :44:46. | |
The wreckage of Grenfell House stands amid a cluster | :44:47. | :44:48. | |
Like many cities around the world, London has seen | :44:49. | :44:50. | |
Homes and offices, perched high above street level, | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
with a host of safety rules designed to resist fire. | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
But eight years ago, a blaze at this tower block in south | :44:58. | :44:59. | |
Southwark Council was fined for breaching fire regulations. | :45:00. | :45:05. | |
And there are plenty of expert voices today saying | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
that the lessons of what happened here at Lakanal House | :45:09. | :45:10. | |
Lakanal House demonstrated that people were at risk | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
The fire in west London last night, this morning, as demonstrated | :45:16. | :45:20. | |
that they are still at risk in their own homes. | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
These fires shouldn't be happening in 21st-century London. | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
We've got the ability to stop them from happening, | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
and when fires do break out, to restrict them to small areas | :45:32. | :45:34. | |
One key question in the spotlight today is about the design of tower | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
blocks, and how they are meant to keep people safe | :45:39. | :45:40. | |
Normally, a fire hose can only reach about 15 metres. | :45:41. | :45:45. | |
Grenfell Tower stands 67 metres high. | :45:46. | :45:48. | |
In America, they rely on what is called "active safety". | :45:49. | :45:51. | |
Sprinklers fight fires in every room, but that can be expensive. | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
The basic principle here, until recently, has been passive | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
safety, designing the building to confine any blaze | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
Another focus will be on the cladding fitted | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
to the outside of the building panels to improve insulation | :46:09. | :46:10. | |
and the look of older buildings like Grenfell Tower. | :46:11. | :46:13. | |
But dozens of fires have been linked to cladding around the world. | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
Two years ago, a skyscraper in Dubai caught fire, | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
New rules there have tightened up on the kind | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
Investigators here will explore what role the cladding might have played. | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
In the UK, it has to be what we call of limited combustibility. | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
I am sure that is going to be questioned now, after this fire. | :46:41. | :46:43. | |
What exactly that means, and what these types of cladding | :46:44. | :46:45. | |
systems are adding to the fire load on the building. | :46:46. | :46:53. | |
It was after the Second World War that councils and said | :46:54. | :46:57. | |
by moving away from old terraced homes coming to new | :46:58. | :47:00. | |
But their safety from fire depends on good design and care for. | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
London their says people living in tower blocks will now | :47:05. | :47:28. | |
-- The London Mayor says people living in tower blocks | :47:29. | :47:30. | |
need to be reassured, and fire professionals are shocked | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
Literally every single floor was on fire, internally. | :47:34. | :47:36. | |
You see one floor, two floors, and then a hopping | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
from floor to floor, maybe, over a period of time. | :47:41. | :47:42. | |
You would not normally see an entire facade on fire, | :47:43. | :47:44. | |
then all of the interior on fire at the same time. | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
So, the fire overcame whatever safety features were in place. | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
Last year, the Government promised a review into fire | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
safety in tower blocks, but then delayed it. | :47:54. | :47:54. | |
This disaster now makes that work a priority. | :47:55. | :47:56. | |
Let's speak to Simon Lay - he's the UK Representative | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
for the Council on Tall Buildings - which is an international | :48:01. | :48:03. | |
He joins us from our studio in Salford. | :48:04. | :48:10. | |
What do you think went wrong? It is really too early to say. Any tragedy | :48:11. | :48:18. | |
like this tends to be the result of a combination of a number of | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
factors. There is a lot of talk about things like the facade but | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
really it is too early to tell what has gone wrong. Not jumping to | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
conclusions but many people are talking about this rental planning. | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
Has there been a debate about this cladding, have they been other fires | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
worldwide where concerns have been raised? With cladding systems, they | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
are incredibly complicated. They may look simple on the outside but the | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
details behind it and how they attach to a building is very | :48:55. | :48:58. | |
complex. These types of cladding systems, using aluminium panels, | :48:59. | :49:05. | |
composite panels, are common around the world. In some cases there have | :49:06. | :49:11. | |
been issues with them and in other cases they can be designed to be | :49:12. | :49:17. | |
safe. It comes down to the details. Many people perhaps who do not live | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
in high-rise blocks but who work in high-rise office buildings would be | :49:24. | :49:26. | |
quite surprised that there is only one exit out of a building like this | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
and no sprinkler system. It is perfectly normal until a few years | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
ago in the UK to design a high-rise building without sprinklers. They | :49:38. | :49:39. | |
were introduced in other buildings around the world for many reasons | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
but the data in the UK just did not supported, did not suggest there was | :49:45. | :49:49. | |
a need to introduce sprinklers. Also having a single sack -- staircase in | :49:50. | :49:56. | |
a building in the UK is normal practice, and what we have done for | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
a long time. It had not shown any significant impact on fire safety. I | :50:00. | :50:08. | |
can see two or three other apartment blocks and I dare say many people | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
living in those will be nervous this evening. I'm sure people will feel | :50:12. | :50:17. | |
nervous. I would say each building is different, each building is an | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
individual. And people really should not feel nervous. Living in a | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
high-rise building in the UK whether old or new is one of the safest | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
places to live. Simply because we spend a lot of time and attention | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
looking after them, looking at them and worrying about how they are | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
designed from a fire point of view. Thank you very much. Andy Slaughter | :50:41. | :50:48. | |
is the MP for Hammersmith, the neighbouring constituency. This | :50:49. | :50:53. | |
constituency is Kensington. So you're in Hammersmith and you have | :50:54. | :50:58. | |
had an issue like this yourself on Shepherd's Bush Green just a year | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
ago, what kind of things were discussed after that fire that might | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
appertain to what has happened here? We looked at three main issues, the | :51:07. | :51:13. | |
cause, it was unsafe electrical appliances. And secondly whether | :51:14. | :51:19. | |
there were specific issues to this particular tower block, here I know | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
they had been concerns raised by the residents. But I do not want to | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
speculate about both. Then you look at the longer term issues and the | :51:30. | :51:32. | |
defining characteristic of this terrible tragedy is the way that the | :51:33. | :51:40. | |
fire spread. Although there were a number of flats damaged in the | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
Shepherd's Bush via last August, it was contained by the Fire Services | :51:45. | :51:51. | |
and thankfully we only had minor injuries. He clearly a number of | :51:52. | :52:00. | |
fatalities. Just to ask about that stay put instruction, historically | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
that was in place to stop people filling up stairwells and enable | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
fire officers to get up the stairs as quickly as possible. But at some | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
point during a fire like this they have to change the instructions? The | :52:13. | :52:16. | |
received wisdom for the 30 years I have been involved is that tower | :52:17. | :52:21. | |
blocks are inherently safe because if a fire starts then it can be | :52:22. | :52:31. | |
contained within one or two flats. So the Fire Services can get there | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
and deal with it. That is why I think that advice is given. Clearly | :52:35. | :52:40. | |
hear the spread was so intense and so fast, the emergency services | :52:41. | :52:43. | |
could not get up to those flaws and people simply did not have time to | :52:44. | :52:48. | |
do anything. And without an intercom system to change and instructions | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
officers would have to go door-to-door and tell people to | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
clear out. All that will no doubt come out in what will be a | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
substantial enquiry because this is a national tragedy on a huge scale. | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
The whole of London is in shock. This is a very close and diverse | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
community. And people have come together today fantastically. And | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
people in my constituency just 200 yards away have been here offering | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
help. But many questions to be asked and so much uncertainty amongst | :53:21. | :53:25. | |
people living in similar blocks. I know Hammersmith Council has put out | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
a letter to many living in similar blocks nearby today to give them | :53:31. | :53:33. | |
some reassurance. That will have to happen, inspections but also the | :53:34. | :53:40. | |
investigation into whether there are inherent problems with either the | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
construction or cladding of whenever it is that about this tragedy to | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
happen. You were with me earlier when one resident from a | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
neighbouring block said he had nowhere to go and there are some | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
frustration it would seem that Kensington and Chelsea Council are | :54:00. | :54:01. | |
not providing the accommodation people need. I know you have made | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
some phone calls so what can you tell us? What I have been told is | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
also the most vulnerable are being put up in hotels, people with young | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
children or elderly or sick, otherwise people are only being | :54:17. | :54:20. | |
offered resting centres. If that is right, I do not think that is | :54:21. | :54:28. | |
sufficient. I spoke to my own counsel, Hammersmith, and they have | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
helped to source accommodation. Many people are out of their homes for | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
perhaps a couple of nights, the homes that had not been damaged but | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
considered not to be saved as a precaution to return to tonight. So | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
I would say to Kensington Council, one of the richest councils and the | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
country, that those offers are there and they should have the resources | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
to offer a decent bed to everyone put out of their homes tonight. And | :54:53. | :54:57. | |
I hope they will do that. There has been some political finger-pointing | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
already but just briefly, Jeremy Corbyn saying they will look at | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
preventative measures, look at fire staffing of cause and also building | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
regulations and it is especially those building regulations, there | :55:11. | :55:13. | |
was supposed to be a review of that since 2010 and it has not happened. | :55:14. | :55:17. | |
I think there has been, all public services have been dramatically | :55:18. | :55:23. | |
reduced in the past seven years. Local authorities and the Fire | :55:24. | :55:25. | |
Service and many other bodies. People are looking not to take on | :55:26. | :55:30. | |
responsibilities that they would have in the past. That has to stop. | :55:31. | :55:36. | |
It is not just responding to fire, I think the fire brigade did | :55:37. | :55:40. | |
brilliantly last night but it is all those inspections, making sure there | :55:41. | :55:44. | |
are the right materials and sprinkler systems, if nothing else | :55:45. | :55:50. | |
comes from this tragedy I hope we will do that and provide those | :55:51. | :55:54. | |
resources to do that now. There will be a public clamour for that. Thank | :55:55. | :56:02. | |
you very much. Just to tell you a bit about the casualties. 12 people | :56:03. | :56:15. | |
confirmed to have died and more than 70 treated at six hospitals nearby. | :56:16. | :56:21. | |
A major incident has been declared. 100 medical staff have been working | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
flat out through the course of the day helping people who the bus | :56:27. | :56:32. | |
hospitals. 18 of them still we are told in critical condition. | :56:33. | :56:34. | |
Our Medical Correspondent Fergus Walsh reports | :56:35. | :56:35. | |
from St Mary's Hospital in Paddington. | :56:36. | :56:43. | |
I think we're struggling to bring about package. Let's talk about Tom | :56:44. | :56:54. | |
Symons, he has Bolivia reports as to what the investigation into Grenfell | :56:55. | :56:56. | |
Tower might be looking at. That is what some residents | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
believe Grenfell Tower was. Friends and relatives dead, | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
injured fighting for their lives. They say, we told you | :57:03. | :57:09. | |
something was going to The proof of that | :57:10. | :57:11. | |
was not hard to find. This is a blog by | :57:12. | :57:18. | |
the tower's residents We have repeatedly | :57:19. | :57:21. | |
reported concerns to the Tenant Management Organisation of | :57:22. | :57:52. | |
the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, including fire safety | :57:53. | :57:55. | |
concerns that were not investigated Management Organisation in | :57:56. | :57:57. | |
the 1990s, but complaints followed. They included concerns | :57:58. | :58:10. | |
about this advice to residents, to stay put inside | :58:11. | :58:13. | |
a flat if there was a fire outside. There were also reports of faulty | :58:14. | :58:17. | |
safety equipment, power surges and Following what happened here, | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
the management was issued with an enforcement order | :58:21. | :58:44. | |
by the fire brigade. It set out a string of failings, | :58:45. | :58:45. | |
failings to ensure preventative measures | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
to properly assess the risk. Failure to offer a well | :58:49. | :58:51. | |
marked escape route. People were angry then, | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
now they are furious. Some of his friends lived | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
at the Grenfell Tower. They changed the doors, | :59:04. | :59:13. | |
the fire doors, which they He has a smoke alarm | :59:14. | :59:29. | |
in his flat but he's central fire alarm, a concern also | :59:30. | :59:38. | |
raised at the Grenfell fire. It was last given | :59:39. | :59:47. | |
a comprehensive fire risk assessment 18 months ago | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
during its refurbishment when it was covered | :59:52. | :59:54. | |
with new cladding, a common process, so the government has ordered | :59:55. | :59:59. | |
wider checks tonight. We discussed with local authorities | :00:00. | :00:10. | |
and the Fire Service of process where we seek to identify towers | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
that might have had a similar process of refurbishment. And do | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
that as quickly as possible to give reassurance to people. The | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
investigation will begin once the exhausting task of putting out the | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
inferno at the Grenfell Tower is complete. Getting to the bottom of | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
why it spread so fast could take months. | :00:32. | :00:45. | |
200 fire officers responded within minutes. And they were the people | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
running up the stairs and we sometimes overlook their bravery. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
Bob Parkinson is a former fire officer and joins us from our | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
Blackburn studio. Give us an idea of what firefighters face when they go | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
into a building that is burning like this. It is difficult to move | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
around, basically, going into an area that is full of black fog. This | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
black smoke. If you imagine fog, very heavy fog, but it is black, you | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
cannot see a thing. So when you move around unless you have imaging | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
cameras then you can only feel your way around very often. And obviously | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
you cannot breathe in that smoke, it is quite poisonous. And so | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
firefighters wearing breathing apparatus to be able to go into the | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
atmosphere to carry a search and rescue and firefighting. And it is | :01:45. | :01:49. | |
arduous and the breathing apparatus has a limited life depending on the | :01:50. | :01:57. | |
size of the air cylinder. And also on how hard the firefighter is | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
working if he's having to go ten flights, 25 to stairs through the | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
smoke with breathing apparatus on, then that is going to use up a | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
considerable amount of air. So by the time they arrived at the droid | :02:11. | :02:17. | |
they need to be at, sometimes or often they cannot stay long because | :02:18. | :02:22. | |
of insufficient air to carry out whatever procedures they are going | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
to carry out. And then they have to get out of there before the air runs | :02:26. | :02:31. | |
out or at least before what is called the time of the whistle which | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
basically is a safety margin with a small amount of reserve air. And | :02:36. | :02:42. | |
getting water to the top floor is obviously is the biggest problem. We | :02:43. | :02:45. | |
know they could get watered last night to the 12 floors, the first | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
12, but after that point, what do you do to get water onto the fire in | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
the upper floors? In the current build situation there are what they | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
call risers, dry and wet risers, you would find dry risers in their | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
buildings and wet risers in higher buildings and basically a wet writer | :03:09. | :03:14. | |
is a pipe going up through the staircase through each floor. And it | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
is permanently charged with water. At each level you have landing | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
valves were firefighters can connect their homes into that at each level. | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
So the system should be designed to provide water to every level in the | :03:30. | :03:36. | |
flats. And so they do not need to carry heavy hoses and drag those up | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
staircases and things like that. Thank you very much for talking to | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
us. Another fire officer has direct experience of what happened here, | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
Wayne Brown is deputy assistant chief of the London Fire Brigade. | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
There has obviously been much gratitude for your men and what | :03:58. | :03:59. | |
they've done in the past 20 hours. What can you tell us about the | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
building at the moment? Currently the fire crews are working hard to | :04:05. | :04:08. | |
damp down any small pockets of fire that remain within the block. We're | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
working closely with the local authority and other partners to make | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
sure we go through systematically as part of the fire investigation into | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
what might have been the cause. And the structural integrity of the | :04:23. | :04:26. | |
building is of utmost importance to us. We're working closely with local | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
authorities structural engineers to make sure the structural integrity | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
of the building is such that our crews can carry on working in the | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
building. When we look at helicopter pictures we can see there are still | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
pockets of fire still burning. Yes, a building of this size, a fire of | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
this magnitude, there are still pockets of fire remaining. We have | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
got that under control and we are currently working hard to make sure | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
any small pockets of fire are extinguished as soon as possible. | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Earlier the commander said you have been able to take advantage of | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
drones supplied by I think the Kent Fire Brigade. What did they enable | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
you to do? Will work closely with all bluelight partners and other | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
Fire And Rescue Services around the country. Kent Fire and Rescue | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
Service kindly offered the use of their drones which means we can get | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
close to the building and get some good images of the damage or any | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
small pockets of fire or phrases were someone could be still within | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
the building that we could not see from the ground. We have images from | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
the police helicopter but also because of downdraught we cannot get | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
too close with a helicopter itself. So the drones gamers some footage. | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
The residents told us you were incredible, your men will hear | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
within just under six minutes. But some of them said there was a | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
problem getting all the trucks working, sourcing water. Was that an | :05:56. | :06:02. | |
issue? All the firefighters both men and women have worked tirelessly to | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
date since the early hours of the morning to extinguish the fire. The | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
fire spread rapidly and developed throughout the building, at that | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
stage we tried to supplement the water supplies. As part of that we | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
draw on the water mains from around the local area and sometimes that | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
can cause a bit of pressure within the mains. But we had no reports of | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
any issues with water. We managed to get water to the incident and | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
because the size of the building is difficult at the higher you go, to | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
get good water pressure. But the fire crews worked really hard in | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
really difficult circumstances and carried out some fantastic work | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
today. Rescuing many members of the public. We just heard from a former | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
fire officer what it is like to go up the stairwell is when they're | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
filled with smoke. You reach the top floor of the building but that does | :06:52. | :06:54. | |
not necessarily mean you have been able to search the top floors. That | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
is correct, it is a building of 24 floors, many flats within | :06:57. | :07:15. | |
that. We managed to get to the top of the building working in difficult | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
conditions and smoke and heat. There has obviously been a lot of debris | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
in the building itself is a part of the ongoing work will be to make | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
sure we systematically searched all the remaining floors that are | :07:23. | :07:25. | |
contained within the building. Would it be the case that in a building | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
like this and particularly on the upper floors, the windows would not | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
open fully and does that make it difficult to escape and difficult | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
for you to get in and help? Usually within a building of this size, we | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
do not, the local fire engineering solutions to the building to not | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
allow for upper floor windows to fully open for obvious reasons. The | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
fire development is something that will be part of the investigation | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
and we cannot really comment on whether anything that was within the | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
building has played a part in the actual fire development itself. That | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
will be part of the ongoing investigation. Your men have been a | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
credit to the service. Thank you very much. Well there has been | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
plenty of political reaction today. Alex Forsyth is at Westminster. What | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
are they saying that are once again politicians finding themselves | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
paying tribute to the work of the emergency services because they're | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
having to deal with another significant incident. In a statement | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
this morning the Prime Minister said her thoughts were with those working | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
tirelessly in very difficult circumstances. She said she was | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
deeply saddened by the loss of life. As you would expect she's been kept | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
briefed throughout the day, there was a cross government meeting to | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
coordinate the government response and make sure the emergency services | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
are getting the support they need. That was chaired by the police and | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
Fire Minister Nick Hurd and he gave an update on what happened at that | :08:48. | :08:50. | |
meeting just as it concluded earlier. There are people out there | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
who will need reassurance. We have discussed with local authorities and | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
the Fire Service a process whereby we seek to identify towers that | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
might be in a similar process of refurbishment, and run a system of | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
checks as quickly as possible to give reassurance to people. The | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has already suggested they may be | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
questioned over whether enough preventative measures were taken in | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
the past and whether or not local authorities, some of whom have | :09:21. | :09:23. | |
responsibility for these tower blocks in the UK, had adequate | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
resourcing to make sure all the relevant fire regulations were in | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
place. But he said questions would come tomorrow because the focus now | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
is on getting the support to those who needed. This is Jeremy Corbyn. | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
Totally shocked by, this is the worst nightmare anyone can think of, | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
fire in a tower block and sympathy, support, solidarity to all those | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
stuck in the tower or who have managed to be rescued or who have | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
lost loved ones or do not know what has happened to their friends and | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
family. And a huge thank you to the Fire Service, police and ambulance | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
and all other emergency services that got there so quickly. We are | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
likely to hear more questions about what could or should have been done | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
in the coming days but for now the focus from politicians is on those | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
who in the immediate aftermath of this huge incident are needing great | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
support. The fire brigade just moving in, | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
another control unit behind us there. On its way to the perimeter | :10:26. | :10:31. | |
at Grenfell Tower. Just to return to politics for a second because Tim | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
Farron was under a certain amount of political pressure after the | :10:36. | :10:39. | |
election result and today we understand he has stood down and | :10:40. | :10:41. | |
made a statement. Let's have a listen to that. Journalists have | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
every right to ask what they see fit. The consequences of focus on my | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
face is that I found myself torn between living as a faithful | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
Christian and serving as a leader. A better, wiser person than me may | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
have been able to deal with this war successfully, to remain faithful to | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
Christ while leading a political party in the current environment. To | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
be a political leader especially a progressive, liberal party in 2017 | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
and to live as a committed Christian, to hold faithfully to the | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
teachings of the Bible has felt impossible for me. | :11:21. | :11:27. | |
Tim Farron speaking earlier. Standing down as the leader of the | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
Liberal Democrats. And leadership battle will now pursue. Let's return | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
to local politics. There will be a big debate about the kind of social | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
housing that we should provide in cities like London. Professor Peter | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
Reid 's is the city planning officer for the City of London. Good evening | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
to you. Good evening and can I start by adding my sympathy to those | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
affected by this tragedy and my admiration for those of the | :11:55. | :11:57. | |
emergency services who have put themselves in danger to help. Let's | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
just talk a little bit about high-rise buildings. Many people | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
might be in high-rise buildings in London tonight and will feel very | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
nervous. I shall be returning after this interview and going to bed on | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
the 27th floor of a high-rise block in the City of London and I will | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
sleep soundly tonight. Because high-rise buildings are not | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
inherently dangerous. Why are buildings like this, someone told me | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
it was built in 1973 so it is quite old but had it been built a few | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
years earlier there been concerns about its structural integrity. This | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
is still standing despite the intensity of the fire, why is that? | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
The method of construction has a lot to do with this, if you have a | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
building with a concrete core which are good building should have | :12:51. | :12:52. | |
because that concrete shaft in the middle protect both were escaping | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
through the stairs from the fire around them, it also reinforces the | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
building and allows it to stand. Buildings have for considerable | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
length of time been designed so they do not collapse even in an intense | :13:07. | :13:08. | |
fire like this. But of course many other things can be improved in | :13:09. | :13:14. | |
buildings and as technology has progressed, so buildings have become | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
even safer. For instance the building I live in, even though it | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
is a residential, is fitted with sprinklers which is something quite | :13:24. | :13:25. | |
rare in residential buildings. And has only been quite a recent | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
introduction. Grenfell Tower for those who have been watching us this | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
evening, this is how it looks, blackened, a shell of what it was. | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
And of course structural engineers will need to keep an eye on it over | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
the course of the next 24 hours at and at the moment is structurally | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
safe. You're watching BBC News. We're going to be continuing with | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
our coverage here from Kensington this evening. Plenty more reaction | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
on why this fire happened and what kind of things can be changed in the | :14:00. | :14:01. | |
future to stop it happening again. I think we can bring Professor Rhys | :14:02. | :14:22. | |
Bacchin. -- back in. We were just talking about these older buildings. | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
But a high-rise building like this if it was being built today, would | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
it just have one stairwell exit? Yes, the building that I live in | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
which was completed about three years ago and has 280 apartments, | :14:35. | :14:40. | |
has only one staircase. Of course the staircase is contained within a | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
concrete shaft to protect it from fire and smoke doors are fitted to | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
keep the smoke out of the escape stairs. What perhaps might be | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
different these days is to have special fire lit, taken over by the | :14:52. | :15:00. | |
Fire Service in an emergency. -- Fire lifts. Of course people must | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
not use lifts an emergency but a lift is often provided these days | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
for the Fire Service to get the building quickly without having to | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
run against the flow of people trying to escape down the staircase | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
which is often a great impediment to emergency services and to those | :15:16. | :15:21. | |
trying to escape. Good to get your thoughts, thank you. And plenty more | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
reaction from here in North Kensington. The building behind me | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
continuing to smoulder and the fire brigade still working on the | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
building. Let's get some weather news with Matt Taylor. | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
It has been a day of above average temperatures across much of western | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
Europe. And here in the UK 27 achieved at Heathrow Airport. Across | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
Spain and France the heat remains tomorrow but in the UK the cold | :15:52. | :15:55. | |
front is heading our way to the west. That pushes into Northern | :15:56. | :16:00. | |
Ireland through the night with outbreaks of rain and breeze. But | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
away from that most bases drive. And it will be quite humid for the vast | :16:05. | :16:10. | |
majority tonight. Not dropping much below the mid-teens if at all. So | :16:11. | :16:16. | |
into Thursday morning, the far west of Wales, West of Scotland, cloudy | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
with outbreaks of rain but brighter skies moving in quickly through the | :16:22. | :16:25. | |
morning. Then showers returning for Scotland and Northern Ireland. | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
Temperatures pushing up quite quickly through the east of England. | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
It is a fresher day compared with today across the Channel Islands, | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
south-west England and Wales but it should be dry and sunny in the | :16:41. | :16:47. | |
afternoon and pleasant. 22 degrees by mid afternoon around London but | :16:48. | :16:54. | |
temptress picking at 25 of four things turn fresher later on. | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
Through Northern Ireland and Scotland the shower is more | :16:59. | :17:00. | |
widespread and pushing through on that breeze. As we go through | :17:01. | :17:12. | |
Thursday night and into Friday, most dry, slightly fresher night than the | :17:13. | :17:15. | |
night were about to have but temperatures still in double figures | :17:16. | :17:20. | |
for the majority. A bright start with good sunny spells, clouding | :17:21. | :17:23. | |
over in Northern Ireland, Scotland and the North of England. Some rain | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
around in Scotland. Some brighter skies into the east of Northern | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
Ireland, lifting temperatures to around 20 degrees through the | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
afternoon. Into the weekend high pressure is building from the south, | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
still some cloud and occasional rain in the west of Scotland, perhaps | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
north-west England. Elsewhere sunny and pleasant. And some spots of rain | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
around on Sunday but getting hotter. We could have first 30 degrees in | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
the South East of England. I'm Christian Fraser in West London, | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
where a huge fire has swept through a tower block killing 12 | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
people - many residents Up to 600 people may have been | :18:10. | :18:12. | |
in the flats when the blaze broke out in the early hours | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
of the morning. They read to ring 999, there is a | :18:20. | :18:26. | |
dedicated line for this incident. Eyewitnesses say they saw people | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
trapped in their flats, shouting from their windows, | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
trying to throw their There was smoke everywhere, | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
literally everywhere. There was people downstairs, | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
there was bits of the cladding falling off the block | :18:41. | :18:43. | |
that was on fire. The London Fire Brigade desperately | :18:44. | :18:45. | |
struggled to reach the upper floors, but were repelled by the heat | :18:46. | :18:57. | |
and falling debris. Around 70 people are being treated | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
in six London hospitals, 18 of them Residents are sheltering in nearby | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
community centres, while others The Archbishop of Canterbury praises | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
the response of people who've offered food, | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
water and clothes to those People filling out churches using | :19:16. | :19:30. | |
the buildings, using horse, whatever centres they can find, bringing | :19:31. | :19:32. | |
things, working together. Fire crews say it will still be some | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
hours before it's out. We'll bring you full | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
details in moment. The plumes of smoke are still rising | :19:42. | :20:16. | |
into the sky this evening. This is Glenn Foot shower, a shadow of what | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
it once was, a black and charred carcass. It is structurally sound | :20:20. | :20:26. | |
for the moment but engineers are keeping an eye on that and the | :20:27. | :20:29. | |
firefighters who have been here through the course of the day are | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
still working tirelessly on the building to put up a small pockets | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
of fire you can see burning in the middle of the building. It will be, | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
I would think, a day or so before they will be able to work through | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
the various apartments that are, at the moment unreachable in that | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
apartment block. We know 12 people have been killed. Over 70 people | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
were taken to hospital and we have been told by the London Ambulance | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
Service, 18 people remain in critical condition. The police are | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
warning us there may be more victims in the hours ahead. So more sad news | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
expected here at North Kensington. Let's take a look at the | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
surroundings and bring you up to speed with where we are in North | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
Kensington. This is Grenfell Tower, part of a housing complex near the | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
Westfield shopping centre. It is 24 stories high and in it where 120 | :21:27. | :21:32. | |
flats which were arranged over 20 residential floors. Up to 600 people | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
may have been inside when the fire broke out. Most would have been | :21:38. | :21:41. | |
asleep because the fire broke out just before 1am. The cause of the | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
fire isn't known but we know it the alarm was raised just before 1am and | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
the fire crews were on the scene six minutes after being called. Over 200 | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
firefighters working around the clock since then. Up to 20 hours | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
they have been working to put out the fires. | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
It is a tragedy that plays to our darkest fears. | :22:09. | :22:14. | |
There was people downstairs, bits of cladding falling off the block. | :22:15. | :22:22. | |
The fire started between midnight and 1am. | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
The screams from the flats and the acrid smell of burning, | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
It was just people jumping out, literally. | :22:33. | :22:41. | |
And putting sheets down to try to get out of the building. | :22:42. | :22:44. | |
Windows exploding, big, massive pieces of debris | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
We came here, saw people jumping off. | :22:47. | :22:53. | |
People had jumped off because they had no other option. | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
Someone was on fire and he jumped too. | :22:57. | :23:02. | |
Some people picked up their children and threw them out for the police | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
to pick them up because there was no other way out of the building. | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
I saw kids at the window shouting, help me, help me, I can't breathe. | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
And all these people have lost people in their lives and I know | :23:18. | :23:24. | |
The fire raced through the 24 storey council block in this deprived part | :23:25. | :23:38. | |
On the seventh floor, this family were led to safety | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
when a fire officer made it up to their flat. | :23:42. | :23:44. | |
There was smoke everywhere, people screaming. | :23:45. | :23:46. | |
There was a fireman there going, get out, get out. | :23:47. | :23:50. | |
I ran back in in my boxer shorts, grabbed the little girl, | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
put her under my dressing gown to cover her face from the smoke, | :23:54. | :23:56. | |
got my girlfriend up, running down, got to the fourth floor | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
This mother and her six-year-old son were also trapped | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
For a moment, she thought her best option was to jump | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
through the window with her child in her arms. | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
For a split second, I had that temptation to jump over | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
You actually thought about jumping from the building? | :24:15. | :24:22. | |
And then your husband grabbed you and took you out? | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
Yes, otherwise, my second thought was to jump. | :24:28. | :24:33. | |
Many residents have complained to me that the fire alarm was too quiet | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
to hear and that the blaze raced from the bottom to the top of | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
All the time we have lived here, they have said if there is a fire, | :24:42. | :24:48. | |
you have to stay in the flat, the fire can't penetrate | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
If we had done that, we would have perished. | :24:52. | :24:54. | |
There was no way that was stopping no fire. | :24:55. | :24:56. | |
Residents told me that they had complained to the authorities | :24:57. | :24:58. | |
that the recently refurbished building was a disaster | :24:59. | :25:00. | |
We tried to take a lot of things to our local MP. | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
Because if one fire happened, we knew that this would happen. | :25:08. | :25:25. | |
Deep poverty and extraordinary wealth live by side-by-side in this | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
The block was home to some of Kensington's poorest families. | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
With dawn, grim, is expected news, that lives have been lost. | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
Many people, numb with shock, frantically searched to find missing | :25:39. | :25:44. | |
This woman's sister and 12-year-old nephew were unaccounted for. | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
As well as the smoke and the smell of burning, | :25:48. | :26:07. | |
numb, shock and tension hangs over this area. | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
In the 21st century, in a country with some | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
of the strictest fire regulations in the world, a desperate tragedy | :26:13. | :26:14. | |
Well into the morning, the crowds watching the horror | :26:15. | :26:32. | |
unfolding in front of them reported seeing people still | :26:33. | :26:34. | |
A man was eventually brought out by the emergency services at noon. | :26:35. | :26:48. | |
This off-duty nurse helped tend to some of the injured | :26:49. | :26:51. | |
I have seen some things, but today... | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
There are mothers that have come out and lost their children. | :26:54. | :27:01. | |
There are firefighters that have come out injured. | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
We don't know if they are even going to come out safe. | :27:05. | :27:07. | |
People have lost their homes, children have seen things, | :27:08. | :27:14. | |
We just need to rebuild as a community now. | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
As the community realised the enormity of what had happened, | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
This woman went to her wardrobe, grabbed a bag of her own clothes | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
A bag of clothes, to me, is nothing, when I can help somebody else. | :27:26. | :27:35. | |
This is a community where a lot of people don't have a lot. | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
We are heartbroken for our community. | :27:40. | :27:48. | |
This is a disaster for this community. | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
But we are pulling together, the people that have nothing, | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
we are giving things to people that have nothing. | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
Sadly I can confirm that there are now 12 | :28:04. | :28:05. | |
people that have died, that we know of. | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
This will be a long and complex recovery operation. | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
I do anticipate that the number of fatalities will, sadly, | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
This is a neighbourhood that feels ignored. | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
We have a number of high-rise buildings here and in | :28:24. | :28:35. | |
We do have to meet stringent safety standards, and in a refurbishment | :28:36. | :28:49. | |
there will be a thorough inspection by the fire authorities. | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
It clearly hasn't, we will have to get the bottom | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
The Mayor of London promised there will be a thorough | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
and independent investigation into what happened. | :28:59. | :29:00. | |
My thoughts and prayers, as I am sure the thoughts | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
and prayers the entire country, with the family and friends of those | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
in the building and affected by this and horrific fire. | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
I would also pay tribute to the amazing emergency services, | :29:08. | :29:11. | |
from the Fire Service, we have more than 250 firefighters, | :29:12. | :29:15. | |
many of whom have been here since the beginning. | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
The streets of North Kensington are littered with ashes. | :29:19. | :29:24. | |
The charred ashes of homework of a school child. | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
But the neighbourhood is also scarred by grief that will not | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
Quite a lot of activity here tonight. Many of the Fire Services | :29:31. | :29:51. | |
are changing over. You did point out in my interview with the deputy fire | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
chief, I did refer to firemen, but there have been men and women, | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
firefighters going into the building. I am happy to correct | :30:01. | :30:02. | |
that. Here with me now is Carrie Hirst | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
from the Kensington She manages a project called | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
Community Champions in the local area and they've been | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
helping out today. We are funded by public health and | :30:12. | :30:22. | |
we are based in Kensington and Chelsea and Westminster. We are | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
community hubs so the project I manages for the Notting Dale Ward, | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
which is here and we work with the residents who live on the estates. | :30:33. | :30:36. | |
Obviously today, the news has been very upsetting. Tell us about some | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
of the people you have come across, they have lost everything? They | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
have, but community spirit, as ever is an incredible thing. All the | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
local organisations in the area have been inundated with donations and | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
offers of support. We had so many volunteers are all desperate to help | :30:59. | :31:02. | |
however they can. It has been incredible. Are you comfortable that | :31:03. | :31:08. | |
the night everybody has a bed? There are lots of different centres in the | :31:09. | :31:13. | |
area offering space. I am sleeping at the Westway tonight, where we | :31:14. | :31:17. | |
have a whole group of people bear. The James Hunt and ruby Portobello. | :31:18. | :31:27. | |
You have camp beds? Yes, mattresses, pillows, sleeping bags. We are not | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
sure what to expect. They are being referred to as by housing | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
organisations and friends and family who went affected by the fire, but | :31:38. | :31:45. | |
they were inside the cordoned. Hundreds of people but don't have a | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
home the night, so we will be working through the night. Are there | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
people coming from centre to centre still looking for people? There are. | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
But I think by now, the majority of people have an answer or at least | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
they know what to do in order to find that missing person. There is a | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
number they can call, the centres have information and there is people | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
in the street to help. Lots of people around the country want to | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
help. It sounds like you have what you need in the immediate term, | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
food, drink and clothing, what can they do? Keep updated with what is | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
going on through social media, to Kensington town Hall website, the | :32:29. | :32:34. | |
volunteer Centre will be updating Twitter. And we will be here on the | :32:35. | :32:40. | |
ground updating what's necessary, what the organisations need, what | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
the residents need. But for now, we have a lot of donations and a lot of | :32:45. | :32:52. | |
manpower. Thank you for talking to us. It is good work you are doing | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
and I'm sure you will be busy in days ahead. | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
Well, throughout the night stories emerged of people who'd | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
escaped the tower block and watched the fire as it swept | :33:05. | :33:06. | |
Many are now being sheltered in nearby community centres. | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
And that's where family and friends of those | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
who are missing are also heading, going from centre to centre | :33:18. | :33:20. | |
Our Special Correspondent Lucy Manning has been talking | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
to the families caught up in the tragedy. | :33:25. | :33:26. | |
The air was punctuated with the sound of crying. | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
They gathered outside the community centre. | :33:30. | :33:40. | |
The one thing nobody could offer was good news. | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
For this family, it was, understandably, to much. | :33:45. | :33:51. | |
My mum, my sister, her daughters and husband. | :33:52. | :33:54. | |
I don't know if they are out, we don't have any information. | :33:55. | :34:04. | |
Susan gave us this picture of her three smiling neices. | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
You haven't been able to contact them? | :34:10. | :34:22. | |
I phoned my sister when she was in, all I could hear was screaming. | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
I was trying to tell her, get out, get to the nearest fire exit. | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
The police officers heard me shouting on the phone. | :34:29. | :34:39. | |
I really just wanted to go in there, basically, do something. | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
In the last hour, she heard news that someone might have | :34:43. | :34:49. | |
After the panic of the night, the day brought only silence. | :34:50. | :34:59. | |
I haven't seen my brother-in-law, his wife and three children. | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
The children are aged 20, the boy is 20. | :35:06. | :35:07. | |
He spoke to them as they were trapped. | :35:08. | :35:15. | |
She said her husband was talking to the emergency people. | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
They said, they are coming to get us, but the heat | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
I said, get a wet blanket, put the kids on the floor | :35:29. | :35:36. | |
She said, we can't do it, because the smoke is killing us, | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
The smoke is coming through the doors. | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
She is keeping covering it, but it is heavy. | :35:45. | :35:46. | |
That was the last time we have heard from her. | :35:47. | :35:48. | |
For those on the lower floors that did make it out, | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
I woke up at about 12.45, hearing, help me, a woman screaming, my baby, | :35:52. | :36:01. | |
The police were knocking on the doors, evacuate, evacuate. | :36:02. | :36:16. | |
We felt we had to get the hell out of here, it is going up. | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
Ed was saved by his friend calling him and telling him to leave. | :36:21. | :36:23. | |
The smoke was so thick, you couldn't see anything. | :36:24. | :36:27. | |
I got three quarters of the way and then I was using my hands | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
I began thinking to myself, this is going to be me, you know? | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
I'm going to die of smoke inhalation. | :36:37. | :36:39. | |
There was actually a fireman lying on the ground. | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
He just touched my foot and led me to wear the fire exit was. | :36:43. | :36:53. | |
He just touched my foot and led me to where the fire exit was. | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
Ed was instrumental in raising concerns about the safety | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
This accident never needed to happen. | :37:02. | :37:08. | |
If people listened to what we were saying, | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
what the blog were saying, what members of the | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
Inside the centre, those waiting for news or have | :37:13. | :37:25. | |
lost their homes are gathered downstairs in the hall. | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
As you can imagine, it is a fairly distressing situation. | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
At times, people are sobbing as they wait for news. | :37:31. | :37:36. | |
News that, at this stage, will possibly not be good news. | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
They are getting help with housing, with food, and the medical help. | :37:40. | :37:45. | |
Now, it is not just the burned-out building that looms over this | :37:46. | :37:50. | |
community, but the fear that they will hear that many more | :37:51. | :37:52. | |
There may be plenty of sad days ahead but there is anger as well. | :37:53. | :38:10. | |
There were concerns about the safety of this building as far back as | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
November. Some of you may have seen on social media, excerpts from a | :38:15. | :38:25. | |
blog. The grand fell action group said there were problems with entry | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
and exit, they have problems with the improvement works, the | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
evacuation procedures, emergency lighting and access for emergency | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
vehicles. After the fire, the group posted today, all our warnings fell | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
on deaf ears and we predicted a catastrophe like this was inevitable | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
and just a matter of time. The criticism was aimed at the group who | :38:49. | :38:58. | |
manages the block. It is managed by the Kensington and Chelsea | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
management organisation and on behalf of them, Robert Blake has | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
given this statement. It is hard for me to comment about anything at the | :39:07. | :39:11. | |
moment because of the investigation. If you listen to the police and the | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
fire brigade, just before I came here, they are saying the same | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
thing. They are still putting the fire out, still trying to find homes | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
for people to go to the night. Still trying to find everybody. What we | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
are trying to do is on the ground, put support in place to address | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
these things. That is my key focus. All the rest we will be addressing | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
in the mastication. Do you think the stay in the flat instruction was | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
partly to blame for the loss of life? I don't know how to answer | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
that because I don't know the consequences, where or how the lives | :39:51. | :39:55. | |
were lost. All I am saying is, across London and other places, you | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
have a staple policy because that is what the fire brigade advise. There | :40:00. | :40:08. | |
was a message to inside housing about the blog not being inspected | :40:09. | :40:13. | |
for 18 month well the inspection took place, were certain things | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
behind schedule, do you think? I cannot mention specifics because | :40:19. | :40:21. | |
they will be looked into. It doesn't sound like anything I know. I know | :40:22. | :40:28. | |
some of the alarms had to be hard-wired in the flats, I just | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
wonder if that work had been completed? Any work that was done | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
during the refurbishment was completed and signed off and that is | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
our position. That is what we will be able to show as we go through | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
this enquiry. So there were all hard-wired, the alarms? I cannot | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
really answer at the moment. I don't know the details. I am just trying | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
to provide assurance and make sure people are safe. Do you know how | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
many people were in at the time? We wouldn't know that, 140 flats, | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
people come and go. We still try to find out where these people are | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
because they were in different places. That was Robert Black from | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
the Kensington and Chelsea tenant management organisation. We are | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
expecting to hear from the Prime Minister in the next few minutes. I | :41:22. | :41:28. | |
can tell you she is promising a full and proper investigation. She has | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
been kept abreast of events here through the course of the day. So a | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
full and proper investigation is what the Prime Minister is | :41:37. | :41:38. | |
promising. Here with me now is | :41:39. | :41:39. | |
Professor Tony Travers We have just been listening to | :41:40. | :41:49. | |
Robert Black from the management organisation which tells us how | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
these blocks are run, it is a complex organisational structure? | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
Yes, people will remember councils running council houses. In some | :42:01. | :42:04. | |
cases, local authorities gave over the housing to housing associations, | :42:05. | :42:09. | |
not-for-profit companies and in this case and a number of others, to a | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
tenant management organisation, arms length from the council, separate | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
and responsible for the work on it. Nevertheless, running the housing as | :42:22. | :42:25. | |
if for the Council. So there is still a link back to the council | :42:26. | :42:30. | |
because it is their property. It is them who are responsible for | :42:31. | :42:33. | |
nominating tenants into the building. OK, but where does the | :42:34. | :42:39. | |
book fall? It is complicated and too early to draw any conclusions | :42:40. | :42:44. | |
because in an incident like this, the Fire Brigade will have | :42:45. | :42:46. | |
responsibilities for giving advice on how a building like this should | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
be protected against fire. The organisation that runs it, the | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
management organisation will be responsible for reacting to that and | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
then the Fire Brigade to inspecting that. All of this within central | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
government setting rules to do with building standards. When the Prime | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
Minister promises an enquiry, it will have to look at all of these | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
aspects of it, because you have different levels of government | :43:13. | :43:21. | |
involved. Obviously, there have been concerns expressed by the residents, | :43:22. | :43:23. | |
which we were just talking about. What happens if a group like this | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
just ignores them? We mustn't prejudge any of this because I am | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
sure any group of tenants living in a block like this will have | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
complaints from time to time. An enquiry would have to look at the | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
complaints made and see whether there was an appropriate response to | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
the concerns as expressed. That is why an enquiry, first by the Fire | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
Brigade I am guessing, and then, as the Prime Minister has announced, is | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
essential to get to the bottom of what happened. We need to look at | :43:55. | :44:02. | |
this over a short time, but with detailed enquiries so it is possible | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
to see where the responsibility lies. The MP for Hammersmith, who | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
was with me earlier was saying it is going to get more complex in social | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
housing blocks like this because of the Right to Buy scheme. When you | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
have an organisation which manages the block, they do renovations for | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
the whole block but when you have somebody who has their own | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
apartment, maybe they don't do the same renovations as the organisation | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
might? It is possible. In other homes, there will be different | :44:36. | :44:37. | |
safety standards than there would be inside a council house. It is all | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
these aspects of this complex issue which will have to be reviewed in | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
order to get to the bottom of why such a tragedy could possibly occur. | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
Different parts of government and their responsibilities will have to | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
be investigated. On a huge renovation project we saw a year | :44:59. | :45:03. | |
ago, who is it ultimately that approves the renovation and signs it | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
off? Is it the group of the council? I cannot answer that for 100%, I | :45:09. | :45:19. | |
thought it would be the tenant's group, the tenant management group | :45:20. | :45:26. | |
would do that. But again, that is something that will be investigated. | :45:27. | :45:29. | |
OK, thank you very much. Obviously there will be lessons | :45:30. | :45:47. | |
learned and to see if it could be avoided. There have been reviews | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
taken place in the past and we hoped lessons would be learned. Tom | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
Edwards has been looking back. Knowing full well this isn't going | :45:55. | :46:08. | |
to end well, it is heartbreaking. Angela lives on the 19th floor in | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
the block opposite Grenfell Tower. After last night she is concerned | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
about the fire risk in her own building. The first thing that came | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
to my mind at 3am what is that security protocol for this building | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
it some other similar happen? What would he do, word with the go? This | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
raises questions about London's housing stock. The last major fatal | :46:35. | :46:41. | |
fire was a Lakanal House in Southwark in 2009. Six people died. | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
After that the coroner made recommendations that the government | :46:46. | :46:49. | |
should clarify if residents should stay put a get out if there is a | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
fire. Councils should retrofit sprinklers and simplify building | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
regulations about what can be changed. The chances of getting a | :46:59. | :47:04. | |
fire are very low... In 2010 the London assembly also highlighted | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
concerns about the capital's high-rise housing stock. We found | :47:10. | :47:13. | |
there is a relatively low risk of having a fire in a tall building. | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
You are fairly safe. But the big problem is, if there is fired then | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
advise is often not given about the right way to behave. Landlords are | :47:23. | :47:27. | |
probably not giving enough information to their tenants and | :47:28. | :47:29. | |
perhaps councils not giving enough advice to the landlords. According | :47:30. | :47:37. | |
to City Hall, about 8% of London's population live in blocks of flats | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
over 11 stories tall, around 690,000 people. Most were built in the late | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
60s and early 70s, but more are now being planned for the future as the | :47:48. | :47:54. | |
capital grows. There have been changes, Southwark Council says it | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
gives a regular fire risk assessment to its blocks. The fire unions and | :47:59. | :48:02. | |
campaigners have, for many years, been calling for the government to | :48:03. | :48:07. | |
review building regulations. Lessons have not been learned. Today is an | :48:08. | :48:11. | |
absolute tragedy and it is caused by the lack of proper regulation of | :48:12. | :48:16. | |
refurbishment standards. The government have been pressed for a | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
number of years by the all-party Parliamentary committee on safety. | :48:20. | :48:26. | |
To do a review of the building regulations to test the integrity of | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
materials that are used in refurbishment is and they have | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
continually put this off. The government says that work is still | :48:35. | :48:37. | |
ongoing and checks will now be carried out on blocks going through | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
similar refurbishment. But there is now anger and questions. What | :48:42. | :48:48. | |
happened in Lakanal House, after it had been refurbished, the | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
refurbishment had compromised the fire compartmentalised nation and | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
the fire spread. It looks like that is what has happened in Granville | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
house, it has been refurbished and the compartmentalisation of the fire | :49:01. | :49:04. | |
has been compromised so it has spread and people have lost their | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
lives. There has been a lot of publicity around what should be done | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
about external cladding and what should be done about tower blocks | :49:14. | :49:19. | |
being fire proved inside properly and a fire should not be spreading | :49:20. | :49:24. | |
beyond the flat where it breaks out. People should be able to be | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
evacuated and wait for the Fire Brigade to do with the incident. It | :49:29. | :49:31. | |
is difficult to see why this has happened and there is not many | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
excuses for it. This man lives in the block opposite and hasn't been | :49:37. | :49:40. | |
able to contact a friend who lives in Grunfeld tower. If you move to | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
the right, you can see where the smoke is about now. That is where | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
she used to live. While it is unclear why this fire happened, it | :49:52. | :49:54. | |
is very clear that safeguards failed. | :49:55. | :50:03. | |
There has been plenty of finger-pointing,... | :50:04. | :50:08. | |
Let's speak now to Graham Fieldhouse, a consultant fire safety | :50:09. | :50:10. | |
expert for social housing and was also in the London Fire Brigade high | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
Why'd you think lessons perhaps have not been learned? One of the issues, | :50:14. | :50:24. | |
and our condolences go out to the families, one of the issues that | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
came up was the surface spread of fire from the outside of the | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
building and it would appear something similar is the case so why | :50:33. | :50:39. | |
checks done, what fire testing certification was in place and did | :50:40. | :50:42. | |
the people who are looking at the testing did they have the necessary | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
skills and expertise to understand what they were looking at? The other | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
questions is the fire doors. Even if the fire hit a flat, each of the | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
flats is like a shoe box, they should have given you a 30 minute | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
protection so when you've stuck next to each other, each should be | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
protected 30 minutes so the flat front doors should have given | :51:05. | :51:12. | |
protection. Witness reports say it was full of smoke, where did that | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
come from, what the Windows on the floor is causing the smoke to get | :51:17. | :51:19. | |
there was at the doors themselves and the other question is people | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
saying they did not hear any alarms or have alarms. That should have | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
been a minimum LD grade three F system. That is the typical one you | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
might have at home, battery operated stuck on the ceiling. The | :51:36. | :51:37. | |
recommendations would be for an elderly Grade II, grade D system | :51:38. | :51:44. | |
which would have been a heat in the kitchen and smoke in the hallway so | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
if we had those. We will come back to but we are expecting a statement | :51:51. | :51:55. | |
from May which will come in about now I think. She says she wants a | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
full investigation so let's listen to what Theresa May have to say. | :52:01. | :52:14. | |
We have some technical problems with that. We will crash into that if and | :52:15. | :52:22. | |
when it happens. While we are waiting for the Prime Minister, I | :52:23. | :52:26. | |
might interrupt you again, what do you think, you alluded to it, you | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
think it was the panels on the side of this building that made the fire | :52:31. | :52:34. | |
jump as quickly as it did from floor to floor? The concrete as we can | :52:35. | :52:42. | |
see, does not really burn. Something has to have set the fire in the | :52:43. | :52:46. | |
manner it did and the ferocity it did and one would think either the | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
panelling that was used or the packing behind the panelling was not | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
too required fire spread standard and that is what we need to look at. | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Is it acceptable for a building like this behind us to not have water | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
sprinklers because we all working big office blocks and above my desk | :53:04. | :53:08. | |
at the BBC there is a sprinkler system that will kick in if there | :53:09. | :53:12. | |
was a fire, why does a building like this not have one? In some countries | :53:13. | :53:19. | |
in Scotland, it insists on sprinkler systems now, the UK has been | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
encouraging sprinkler systems for quite some time although sprinklers | :53:25. | :53:28. | |
themselves will not stop a fire from killing someone in the flat of | :53:29. | :53:31. | |
origin because they do not usually go off until the heat in the flat is | :53:32. | :53:39. | |
raised to a level. It would give firefighters more time to get to the | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
upper floors and save more people. Absolutely. Why are we not insisting | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
on proper fire doors because that may have been an issue, it is an | :53:51. | :53:53. | |
issue I have come across were people remove the door closes so doors with | :53:54. | :54:00. | |
integral closes and have the certification, that is what we want, | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
not global certification which people use which means the door has | :54:05. | :54:14. | |
been tested individually. With your consultant fire safety hat on, what | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
would the investigators look at and where might they look when they | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
start investigating? One of the thing you need to investigate, under | :54:24. | :54:32. | |
an approved document regulation, the government document in relation to | :54:33. | :54:36. | |
fire safety in building works, one of the requirements is for you to | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
hand over suitable information about the systems you have used unsuitable | :54:41. | :54:43. | |
certification so I would want to look at was it handed over, was the | :54:44. | :54:47. | |
person who looked at that competence to look at that and would they get | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
the advice from and somebody like Sir Ken Knights who has done a | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
number of investigations in the past would be an ideal candidate to get | :54:56. | :54:58. | |
to the bottom of that and other factors. There is a requirement for | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
within blocks of flats to be checked annually, was that happening, what | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
adores working and door closes working properly? Fire alarm | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
systems, wage a fire risk assessment you should do a sample of the flats. | :55:14. | :55:23. | |
More regular than 2015? The judge in a recent case suggested annually or | :55:24. | :55:26. | |
though there was no specific statement when it should be done but | :55:27. | :55:29. | |
I would recommend in a tower block this ilk you should be done | :55:30. | :55:32. | |
annually. Interesting thoughts. Thank you for being with us. I think | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
we do have control of the Theresa May tape so let's play it. | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
I have received the latest update on the tragedy at Grenfell Tower, 12 | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
people have been confirmed dead in this terrible fire that has taken | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
place and sadly the police expect that number to rise further and my | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
thoughts are with the victims, their families and all of those who had | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
their homes destroyed. It is impossible to comprehend the horror | :56:02. | :56:04. | |
of what they have been going through. The response of people | :56:05. | :56:07. | |
living nearby who have provided help, compassion and support has | :56:08. | :56:13. | |
once again shown fantastic spirit of London. Earlier today I ordered | :56:14. | :56:17. | |
cross government meeting to ensure that every assistance was given to | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
manage the emergency service response and that group will meet | :56:22. | :56:25. | |
again tomorrow and once again our emergency services, the Fire | :56:26. | :56:31. | |
Service, ambulance, NHS and police, have shown incredible bravery | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
working in truly appalling conditions and their work will | :56:36. | :56:38. | |
continue for some time and I know everybody will want to join me in | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
thanking them for their amazing bravery. Many people will be working | :56:43. | :56:47. | |
around the clock in the NHS to treat those who have been injured and | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
working elsewhere to provide help and support to those who have no | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
home to return to. Of course, once the scene is secure, once the | :56:58. | :57:01. | |
recovery is complete, an investigation will take place into | :57:02. | :57:04. | |
the cause of the fire and if there are any lessons to be learnt but | :57:05. | :57:09. | |
until then our focus must be on ensuring emergency services have | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
what they need to continue with their harrowing work and help and | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
support is provided to all those who have suffered as a result of this | :57:18. | :57:23. | |
tragedy. At the meeting of the civil contingencies Secretariat it was | :57:24. | :57:25. | |
agreed further checks will be carried out on similar tower blocks. | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
What would you say to those who say perhaps this should have happened | :57:31. | :57:34. | |
before and there are some claims also that the government last year | :57:35. | :57:37. | |
promised to bring in tougher regulations and that has not | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
happened. Our focus today is on ensuring there is every support | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
available to the emergency services and in their typical worker Ms | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
terrible conditions but also in providing help and support to those | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
who have been victims. We must remember there are people today are | :57:55. | :58:04. | |
a who have no home to go to. Our focus must be on providing support | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
to them. In due course when the scene is secure and it is possible | :58:08. | :58:13. | |
to identify the cause of this fire then there will be proper | :58:14. | :58:15. | |
investigation and if there any lessons to be learnt they will be | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
and action be taken. The Prime Minister speaking a short time ago. | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
There will be a proper investigation and if lessons need to be learned, | :58:26. | :58:28. | |
they will be and action will be taken. This time we would normally | :58:29. | :58:32. | |
be tuning into outside source. Let's cross to Ros Atkins | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
in our central London studio for a closer look at | :58:40. | :58:41. | |
what we know about the cause We will take a few minutes to look | :58:42. | :58:49. | |
at what we never Grenfell Tower. It is in west London in an area called | :58:50. | :58:57. | |
North Kensington. You can see it marked that with football pitches | :58:58. | :59:02. | |
nearby. This is what is happening to the tower just half an hour after | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
the first calls went into the emergency services just before one | :59:07. | :59:10. | |
o'clock in the morning but almost the entire building became engulfed | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
very quickly which raises questions about the construction of the tower. | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
This is an architectural design of the building, we have marked the | :59:20. | :59:21. | |
fourth floor in green because that is where we believe the fire | :59:22. | :59:26. | |
originated but there are 24 stories in total, 20 of which are | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
residential. As you can see in this diagram which is one floor it is | :59:31. | :59:43. | |
divided into six flats and that makes up 120 in the building in | :59:44. | :59:45. | |
total. This council flats were managed by the Kensington and | :59:46. | :59:47. | |
Chelsea tenant management organisation on behalf of the royal | :59:48. | :59:49. | |
borough of Kensington and Chelsea. We know this but recently underwent | :59:50. | :59:54. | |
refurbishment which cost in the region of ?10 million. He is one | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
councillor talking about the refurbishments. It has been recently | :59:58. | :00:03. | |
refurbished and clad, they replaced the kitchens and the heating system | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
so I would have thought it would have been the safest tower block in | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
the borough. We have had fires in tower blocks before but nothing like | :00:12. | :00:15. | |
this. The counsellor talked about new cladding and there are questions | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
being asked about whether the new cladding contributed to the speed at | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
which the fire spread. Clearly, something went catastrophically | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
wrong here, the BBC spoke to one fire and building expert who said | :00:28. | :00:29. | |
this block didn't perform in the way you would expect a building | :00:30. | :00:45. | |
to perform, you would expect the fire to be contained to an | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
individual apartment but he goes on to say something has gone | :00:49. | :00:50. | |
dramatically wrong here. We know the company that carried out the | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
refurbishment work has put out a statement saying its work met all | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
fire regulation and health and safety standards. We also know | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
residents had raised safety concerns back in November last year, this is | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
a blog post from the Grenfell Tower action group. In this post, the | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
group raises fire safety concerns analytic uses the towers landlord, | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
the same talent management organisation of failing to address | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
those concerns. The action group predicts it will not be long before | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
the words of this blog come back to haunt the management. So many | :01:26. | :01:36. | |
concerns, locations of heating interface units, concerns about | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
escape and getting in and out and lighting and I heard the firearms | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
did not go off in the building. I was not surprised. I was not | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
surprised, shocked, terrified at the people living here but not | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
surprised. And these signs were posted all over the tower, the signs | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
advise residents, there is a staple policy residents unless the fire is | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
in or affecting your flat. In other words, you are not directly | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
impacted, stay put. This is a policy that applies to lots of these types | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
of tower blocks in the UK since the 1950s, based on the assumption which | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
we had a moment ago that when a fire starts it can be contained in one | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
part of the building. Evidently in this case tragically that did not | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
happen. The role of this kind of advice in the amount of loss of life | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
we have seen will be one many policies and decisions that are | :02:35. | :02:44. | |
being very urgently reviewed. That is very useful, thank you. | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
I'm joined now by Luke Barratt, who is the business | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
editor at Inside Housing, which is a publication | :02:52. | :02:53. | |
The building was being refurbished between 2015 and 2016 and as part of | :02:54. | :03:10. | |
that refurbishment the heating was replaced in the building and the | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
building is heated by pipes that run through each of the floors and in | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
order to replace the heating, they had to change all of the pipes, take | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
at the old pipes and put in new pipes to do that they had to replace | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
the fire stopping in between the floors and those are fire safety | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
systems intended to stop fire spreading from floor to floor. Plan | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
was temporarily replace the fire stopping and put it back in but at | :03:37. | :03:42. | |
this point questions have to be raised about what safeguards there | :03:43. | :03:46. | |
were to ensure it was replaced properly. Furthermore, according to | :03:47. | :03:50. | |
information released by Kensington and Chelsea Council and a Freedom of | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Information, the last fire risk assessment was carried out on the | :03:55. | :04:01. | |
building in December 2015 which was before the further Schmidt was | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
completed so one would have thought you would want to assess the | :04:04. | :04:09. | |
building after the refurbishment. That is the point I put to the LSE, | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
who ultimately would be responsible for that, Kensington and Chelsea | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
tenant management organisation or the borough council? Per hour range | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
of people involved with the refurbishment and it would be wrong | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
to speculate who would be responsible for it. Or indeed | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
whether fire stopping was replaced at all. For all we know, it was | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
replaced but the question is around the safeguards as to how it was | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
replaced. The construction company have issued a brief statement saying | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
that when they handed building over passed all its building regulations | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
and the tenants Organisation was quite satisfied with how it was | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
done. Indeed. And that is why we should not jump to any conclusions | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
at this stage about how the fire stopping was replaced. It is | :04:59. | :05:07. | |
relevant to point out that it was not assessed fully after the | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
refurbishment. Finally, for your report you must have spoken to the | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
action group and residents in the block, was it clear to you they were | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
unhappy with some of the safety measures? I did not speak to a | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
non-personally but reading their blogs it is clear they were | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
highlighting their concerns about the building in terms of fire and | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
whether or not those match up to the things that we have highlighted in | :05:34. | :05:40. | |
our articles is not certain. OK, thank you. Interestingly, tee-macro | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
reports written on whether there should have been more fire reports | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
after the refurbishment was done. The community here have been helping | :05:50. | :05:58. | |
out and people going through with bags of food and water and clothing | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
and anything they can do to help. There are lots of community centres | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
and churches but also mosques and Ladbroke mosque is playing quite a | :06:08. | :06:10. | |
significant role this evening. Karl Mercer has been to see them. | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
People coming with bags and bringing food and here we are at the mosque | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
and cultural centre just half a mile from the scene and you can see just | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
how busy it is and if we walk inside when we arrived at 12pm there was | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
hardly anything here, hardly anybody here but take a look at what has | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
happened since then. Come on in. This room has been full, water and | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
food has been taken out to those in need and if we swing around to the | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
other side of the room, we have lots of clothes that have been donated | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
and bedding as well. As I say, something that has been happening | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
across west London this afternoon, people walking up to us and offering | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
us assistance but we are joined by the Chief Executive of the cultural | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
centre and the mosque. A difficult day for the community. That is the | :07:08. | :07:16. | |
situation, unfortunately, many people are worried about their loved | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
ones, there are people who do not know what happened to their loved | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
ones, they have no information. In the meantime, we are trying to do | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
our best to offer every help people need, we have been inundated with | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
the generosity of the community people have been calling us from | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
Gatwick and Luton to offer any assistance we need, supplying us | :07:39. | :07:45. | |
with food, blankets, everything. Some of your staff have families and | :07:46. | :07:52. | |
many worshippers will worship here? Yes, staff members have family | :07:53. | :07:55. | |
members in the building and we do not know what happened to them. | :07:56. | :08:00. | |
Worshippers as well, so it is quite a difficult situation we are in but | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
who are trying to cope by providing all the emotional and material | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
support the community needs. Thank you very much. The effort continues | :08:10. | :08:16. | |
here and it will continue through the night. And across other parts | :08:17. | :08:17. | |
close to the fire. We heard from Luke Barrett, who | :08:18. | :08:30. | |
raised concerns that a fire check was not done after the refurbishment | :08:31. | :08:32. | |
is on Grenfell Tower,... speak to Tony Devenish | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
is the Conservative London Assembly Member for West Central and sits | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
on the Housing, Planning Listening to the interview with Luke | :08:40. | :08:49. | |
Barrett who works for inside housing saying his concern was a fire check | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
was not done after the refurbishment, with that concern | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
you? I think I would start by saying it is amazing what the emergency | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
services have done today and how the community has come together. All the | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
issues you are talking about are valuable issues but they offer | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
tomorrow and the Greeks going forward about a focus on the good | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
news in terms of the community getting together this is a serious | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
loss of life and clearly we cannot jump to conclusions on the technical | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
aspects you were discussing earlier. No, quite right. It is too early to | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
jump to conclusions. There will be a lot of people in housing blocks, not | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
just in London were to run the country who will be concerned about | :09:37. | :09:39. | |
renovations done on their blocks, should they be worried and do we | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
need to look closer at some of the renovations that have been done? | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
They should not be worried, we do not want to get wild speculation but | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
I know local authorities all that is looking into this as of this morning | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
and my local authority is doing so and I'm sure many others across the | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
country are so, yes, we need to be going into the detail and they will | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
be reviewed but we do not want to worry people unnecessarily. I accept | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
that that while the review is taking place, will you have to take extra | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
precautions, fire wardens at some of these blocks around the country? I | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
was in a meeting earlier and we are looking at various measures, I do | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
not want to speculate on specifics but I can assure you a lot of work | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
is all ready and away across London, I cannot speak to the rest of the | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
country. When you sit in the London assembly and talk about housing, | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
there is huge pressure on housing, of these kind of housing blocks, are | :10:39. | :10:44. | |
they still valid option? Will need a real mix of housing, the mayor... It | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
is a cross-party issue, we all agree we need more housing and a mixture | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
so yes, tower blocks in certain parts are part of the solution but | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
not across all parts of London. I had a great believer in democratic | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
accountability and local authorities and each have their own community | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
aspects and are looking at the issue, some areas do like tower | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
blocks as part of the mix, some do not. Yes, after an incident like | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
this, would there be a review about some of the emergency provisions in | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
a housing block like this, many people have talked about the one | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
exit, one stairwell out of the building, presumably it is possible | :11:30. | :11:31. | |
to build buildings that are more modern with proper exits, maybe two | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
and buildings with water sprinklers fitted? Or those aspects will be | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
looked at in due course, absolutely as crucial things we should look at | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
after this serious loss of life. I will not speculate on a point by | :11:49. | :11:55. | |
point basis, that would be wrong. OK, good of you to join us. Thank | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
you very much. Plenty of people are milling around. Whereabouts do you | :12:01. | :12:11. | |
live, Ben? A kilometre away in another block tower and I can tell | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
you it is very disconcerting to walk out of my front door, I'm a | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
film-maker and used to work in Hollywood and it looked like a | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
disaster movie. It was crazy. Were you woken in the night were you | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
aware of what was going on? Not until this morning when I have a | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
helicopter circling. And your first instinct is take a photo but then | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
see what you can do to help. We had from Tony Devenish from the London | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
assembly saying people do not need to panic, Richard remain calm about | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
the blocks they live in adage is any natural after something like that | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
that you start to think about how would I get out of my block and is | :12:50. | :12:53. | |
my blocks safe and what provisions are there? Yeah, it is important to | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
be prepared for the situations and to look around your block of flats | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
and plan an escape route if something were to happen. We have | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
two stairwells and I know with the dry rises are and I'm aware of it, I | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
live on the seventh floor and I think if I had to jump I might | :13:11. | :13:15. | |
survive. That is the horrifying thing that we heard, people had to | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
make that decision. Yeah, that is something I would not want to do. If | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
anyone is up on the top, they really do not stand a chance. It was fully | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
involved. Have you been getting involved with people today? I made a | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
movie about what is going on, seeing the firemen who had been their first | :13:37. | :13:41. | |
responders completely devastated, people offering them water, streets | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
are full of locals and all I saw was compassion for what had happened and | :13:48. | :13:50. | |
people trying to help in they could. I went and offered at one of the | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
local centres to let them know I have a spare room. OK, we will pause | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
for a moment. The reaction of the community has | :14:00. | :14:13. | |
been quite extraordinary. I have watched people come and go with all | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
sorts, bags of shopping, clothes, toiletries, toothbrushes. It looked | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
like a parade, people were pulling up with bags and unloading boxes and | :14:24. | :14:32. | |
blankets and food and that outpouring of desire to pitch in, I | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
have never seen anything like that and I have a great admiration for | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
London in general and the British people that they just immediately | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
step in and want to do the right thing. I saw one picture of the | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
firefighters, the men and women who been up and down the tower all-day, | :14:49. | :14:54. | |
in incredible conditions, the smoke in the stairwells, a hot day as | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
well, your hat goes off to them. Indeed, I had a chat with some of | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
them and some of them had been there since one o'clock in the morning and | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
this was at eight o'clock that they had done a full shift, they were | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
drenched with sweat, some had tears in their eyes, some had to sit down | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
and I was giving them their space and letting them process this but | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
they were devastated. Then, thank you for coming to talk to us. We | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
will be here in the next few minutes, will carry on our coverage | :15:26. | :15:31. | |
down here at tower but for the moment will pause and get some | :15:32. | :15:32. | |
weather. Temperatures reached 27 degrees this | :15:33. | :15:41. | |
afternoon falling short of other parts of Western Europe where there | :15:42. | :15:48. | |
is a real summer heatwave, 34 degrees in Toulouse | :15:49. | :15:49. |