London Tower Fire: Part 2 BBC News Special

south, more the breeze further north with further rain in western areas

but by Sunday we could see our first 30 degrees day of the so far. You

are watching BBC News, you are watching BBC News. A huge blaze has

ripped through a tower block killing 12 people with many still

unaccounted for. The fire broke out just before

1.00am the morning local time - fire crews were on the scene

within six minutes. You need to ring 999, there is a

dedicated line for this incident. The fire was still

raging as dawn broke. It's feared many are

still unaccounted for. The London Fire Brigade desperately

struggled to reach the upper floors, but were repelled by the heat

and falling debris. This is a completely unprecedented

fire. In my 29 years in the London Fire Brigade I have never seen a

fire of this nature and I have seen many high-rise fires.

Around 70 people are being treated in six London hospitals, 18 of them

In the US, a gunman opens fire on Republican members

of Congress during a baseball practice in Virginia.

The attacker is killed by police officers.

We are united in our shock. We are united in our anguish. An attack on

one of us is an attack on all others. -- of us.

21 hours after this fire started in Grunfeld tower, the fire is still

blazing. The Fire Service had been working tirelessly to put the fire

out. They have managed to get a hydraulic crane imposition and they

are firing water remotely into the upper floors of the apartment block,

but the state of it at the moment, this wreckage of a building tells

you it will take them some time to get in there and fully account for

the people that are missing. Let me remind you of where this apartment

block is in relation to west London. Grenfell Tower is part of a social

housing complex of nearly 1,000 homes near the Westfield shopping

centre in West London. Our Home Editor Mark Easton now

reports and a warning, there are distressing images,

from the start of his piece. It is a tragedy that plays

to our darkest fears. The fire started

between midnight and 1am. The screams from the flats

and the acrid smell of burning, It was just people

jumping out, literally. And putting sheets down

to try to get out of the building. Windows exploding, big,

massive pieces of debris We came here, saw

people jumping off. People had jumped off

because they had no other option. Someone was on fire

and he jumped too. Some people picked up their children

and threw them out for the police to pick them up because there was no

other way out of the building. I saw kids at the window shouting,

help me, help me, I can't breathe. And all these people have lost

people in their lives and I know The fire raced through the 24 storey

council block in this deprived part On the seventh floor,

this family were led to safety when a fire officer made it up

to their flat. There was smoke everywhere,

people screaming. There was a fireman there

going, get out, get out. I ran back in in my boxer shorts,

grabbed the little girl, put her under my dressing gown

to cover her face from the smoke, got my girlfriend up, running down,

got to the fourth floor With dawn, grim, is expected news,

that lives have been lost. Many people, numb with shock,

frantically searched to find missing This woman's sister and 12-year-old

nephew were unaccounted for. As well as the smoke

and the smell of burning, numb, shock and tension

hangs over this area. In the 21st century,

in a country with some of the strictest fire regulations

in the world, a desperate tragedy Well into the morning,

the crowds watching the horror unfolding in front of them reported

seeing people still A man was eventually brought out

by the emergency services at noon. This off-duty nurse helped tend

to some of the injured I have seen some

things, but today... There are mothers that have come out

and lost their children. There are firefighters that

have come out injured. We don't know if they are even

going to come out safe. People have lost their homes,

children have seen things, We just need to rebuild

as a community now. This is a neighbourhood

that feels ignored. We have a number of high-rise

buildings here and in We do have to meet stringent safety

standards, and in a refurbishment there will be a thorough inspection

by the fire authorities. It clearly hasn't,

we will have to get the bottom The Mayor of London promised

there will be a thorough and independent investigation

into what happened. My thoughts and prayers,

as I am sure the thoughts and prayers the entire country,

with the family and friends of those in the building and affected

by this and horrific fire. I would also pay tribute

to the amazing emergency services, from the Fire Service,

we have more than 250 firefighters, many of whom have been

here since the beginning. The streets of North Kensington

are littered with ashes. The charred ashes of

homework of a school child. But the neighbourhood is also

scarred by grief that will not We must prepare ourselves for the

eventuality that the death toll will rise. It is 12 at the moment but

they haven't been able to search all of the upper floors of this

apartment block and there are many people missing and accounted for. We

must be prepared for that. Let me introduce you to Chris Myers. He is

a forensic architect. My specialist areas in is looking into how things

go wrong in buildings, and stop them going wrong. In the case of a fire I

would often be involved after the fire, understanding what happened,

how was it constricted and design. Looking at some of the remnants we

have, looking at the drawings and working out why it was the fire

occurred and spread in the way it did. With the necessary caveats, we

cannot jump to conclusions because we do not know the whole story, but

if you were to cast your professional eye on that, what would

you say happened? Firstly, I am surprised to see the extent of the

fire, how widely it burned through the building and as I understand it,

rapidly as well. We would expect to see less fire spread and that allows

the Fire Brigade to attend and bring it under control before it spread so

widely round the building. We need to understand how it was built and

constructed to the exterior. We have seen how that burned. But we should

not forget about the interior. Because the spread of smoke within

the building can be very damaging and ultimately fatal to people as

well. So if smoke escapes through corridors and escapes staircases,

that can put people at risk. We have become amateur experts on rainproof

cladding. There were incidents in Dubai earlier in the year at a hotel

where this cladding proved to be a problem. What went wrong there? We

have not yet seen the full forensic report on the address in Dubai. The

cladding there was a different type of cladding from that which is

permitted here. It was a more compost above cladding with a higher

risk of burned. That was permitted in Dubai and the UAE up until 2012,

so the older stock there had a higher risk of burning. What you see

on the outside is a three layer sandwich with two layers of

aluminium and then it is the call between the layers of aluminium

which is critical in terms of fire resistance. But what we see on the

outside is part of the external cladding system. So behind that we

have a void which is normally ventilated and then insulation as

well. Does it work like a flue? That is the risk. If it doesn't work

behind the cladding, we could have a chimney, in fact. Which is why we

saw, in the space of half an hour, we saw the smoke and flames leaping

from one floor to another. If you take these cladding systems, if the

horizontal subdivision is not installed, the fire can spread

quickly behind the facade, so it is behind the cladding and breaking out

higher up the building. But we are speculating because we don't know

fully. The point about the state put instruction that exists in a

building like this where residents are supposed to stay in their

apartment blocks, is because those units are supposed to be fireproof

for an hour. That certainly didn't happen? We will have to look at the

reports, but that is certainly the case. We have to look at fire and

smoke, because the people may have been affected by smoke as much as

fire. They should be fireproof, they have fire resistant construction and

fireproof doors. As well as staying put you have a protected means of

escape. Once you are in the corridor and the escape stairs, you should be

in a place of safety. Somebody told me that if this building had been

built three years earlier, it might have collapsed. They changed the

building structures in the 1970s after a similar incident, so how is

this building difference? This building was built in 1974 and the

regulations changed in order to allow for the sacrificial element in

the structure. The structure is designed to accommodate this. Having

said that, I would expect as part of the investigation, the structure in

this building will have to be carefully reviewed to see if it can

still withstand the loads required because the fire may have affected

the steel? Surely they will have to demolish it? It is a wreck on the

outside, I cannot say for certain. Spare a thought this evening for

those hundreds of people who have lost everything, their worldly

possessions and they don't have a place to stay in the weeks ahead.

They will have some emergency accommodation the night, but they

will have to plan in the days and weeks ahead and it will be

difficult, bearing in mind what they have been to. Many are being put up

at community centres, churches and mosques around this area. Lucy

Manning has been taking a look at that and meeting the people

searching for their loved ones. The air was punctuated

with the sound of crying. They gathered outside

the community centre. The one thing nobody

could offer was good news. For this family, it was,

understandably, to much. My mum, my sister, her

daughters and husband. I don't know if they are out,

we don't have any information. Susan gave us this picture

of her three smiling neices. You haven't been able

to contact them? I phoned my sister when she was in,

all I could hear was screaming. I was trying to tell her, get out,

get to the nearest fire exit. The police officers heard me

shouting on the phone. I really just wanted to go in there,

basically, do something. In the last hour, she heard news

that someone might have After the panic of the night,

the day brought only silence. I haven't seen my brother-in-law,

his wife and three children. The children are aged

20, the boy is 20. He spoke to them

as they were trapped. She said her husband was talking

to the emergency people. They said, they are coming

to get us, but the heat I said, get a wet blanket,

put the kids on the floor She said, we can't do it,

because the smoke is killing us, The smoke is coming

through the doors. She is keeping covering

it, but it is heavy. That was the last time

we have heard from her. For those on the lower floors

that did make it out, I woke up at about 12.45, hearing,

help me, a woman screaming, my baby, The police were knocking

on the doors, evacuate, evacuate. We felt we had to get the hell out

of here, it is going up. Ed was saved by his friend calling

him and telling him to leave. The smoke was so thick,

you couldn't see anything. I got three quarters of the way

and then I was using my hands I began thinking to myself,

this is going to be me, you know? I'm going to die

of smoke inhalation. There was actually a fireman

lying on the ground. He just touched my foot and led me

to where the fire exit was. Ed was instrumental in raising

concerns about the safety This accident never

needed to happen. If people listened to

what we were saying, what the blog was saying,

what members of the Inside the centre, those

waiting for news or have lost their homes are gathered

downstairs in the hall. As you can imagine, it is a fairly

distressing situation. At times, people are sobbing

as they wait for news. News that, at this stage,

will possibly not be good news. They are getting help with housing,

with food, and the medical help. Now, it is not just the burnt-out

building that looms over this community, but the fear

that they will hear that many more The fire investigation will begin in

earnest and they will look at where the fire began and write it spread

so quickly. Plenty of anger in this community. Theresa May has promised

a full investigation and were lessons need to be learned, they

will be learned. I have just received the latest

update. 12 people have been confirmed dead in this terrible fire

that has taken place and sadly the police expect that number to rise

further. My thoughts are with the victims, their families and all of

those who have had their homes destroyed. It is impossible to

comprehend the horror of what they have been going through. The

response of people living nearby who have provided help, compassion and

support has shown the fantastic spirit of London. Earlier today I

ordered a cross government meeting to manage the emergency service

response and back group will meet again tomorrow. Once again, our

emergency services, our Fire Service, ambulance, NHS and police

have shown incredibly bravery working in appalling conditions. In

their work will continue for some time and everybody will want to join

me in thanking them for their amazing bravery. Many people will be

working round-the-clock in the NHS to treat those who have been injured

and working elsewhere to provide help and support to those who have

no home to home to return to. Of course, once the scene is secure,

once the recovery is complete, then an investigation will take place

into the cause of the fire and if there are any lessons to be learned.

Until then, our focus must be on ensuring the emergency services have

what they need to continue with their harrowing work and that help

and support is being provided to all those who have suffered as a result

of this tragedy. Prime Minister, Theresa May speaking

a short time ago. Let's remind ourselves how events the day.

Let's cross to Ros Atkins in our central London studio

for a closer look at what we know about the cause

Let's find out what we know about the tower. It is in North Kensington

in the west of London. You can see that next door to the tower are a

number of football pitches, and number of other residential

properties as well. The first time emergency services knew about this

fire was via a telephone call at just before 1am but the situation

was escalating and the entire building became engulfed in flames

very quickly. It has raised concerns about the structure of this tower.

This is an architectural design of the building. We have marked the

fourth floor in green because that is where it is believed the fire

originated. We note 20 stories are residential. Each floor typically

has six flats. Making 120 in the building in total. We know these

Council flats are managed by the Kensington and Chelsea tenant

management organisation. They act on behalf of the Royal Borough of

Kensington and Chelsea. We note the borough funded refurbishments to the

cost of ?10 million. He is a council are talking about that. It has been

recently refurbished and clad. They replaced the kitchens and the

heating system. I would have thought it would have been the safest tower

block in the borough. We have had fires in tower blocks before, but

nothing like this. You heard about the council are talking about new

cladding and there is a lot of attention on this cladding and it

may have contributed to the speed at which the fire spread. This building

did not burn as experts would have expected it to. One expert speaking

to the BBC saying they didn't perform in the way you expect the

building to perform. The expected to be contained to an individual

department, but something has gone dramatically wrong.

We have heard from the company who carried out these building works. We

know several months ago, residents raised the latest in a long line of

safety concerns they had about living in this building. This is a

blog post from November 2016 written by the Grenfell action group and it

raises specific spire safety concerns and accuses the landlord of

the tower, the same management organisation I mentioned a little

while ago, and it signs off by saying the action group predicts it

won't be long before the words of this post come back to haunt the

management. Here is a former member of that group speaking earlier. So

many concerns, concerns about the locations of heat interface units.

Concerns about escaping and getting in and out. Concerns about lighting.

I have heard the fire alarms did not go off in the building. To tell you,

I wasn't surprised. Shocked, terrified, all the people living

here, but not surprised. This is fire action advise in Grenfell

Tower. It is posted all over the building. It tells residents there

is a state put policy unless the fire is in or affecting your flat.

If there is a fire within the tower, unless it is immediately affecting

your situation, stayed put. It is a policy applied to many tower blocks

in the UK since the 1950s. It is based on the assumption when we had

the fire experts talking a moment ago, if a fire does begin it can be

contained in its place of origin within the building. Evidently and

tragically, that didn't happen last night. And the role this advice

played in the loss of life, along with many other policies and

decisions that have led up to this fire, Christian, are certainly to be

urgently reviewed in the coming days, weeks and months.

The light is starting to fade here in West London. As it does, we can

see the fire is still burning. Six or seven floors down from the top of

the building. Some quite fierce fires still burning. Obviously under

control now, not raging in the way they were earlier in the day, but

there are pockets in the building that firefighters, the men and women

who have been tackling those blazers, won't be able to reach. I

did say they have got a hydraulic crane in place next to the tower and

they firing water into pockets of the building to try and dampen down

those flames. It is a treacherous environment for the firefighters

because there is all manner of debris and masonry falling off this

building, as there has been throughout the day. We saw

firefighters going into the area around the building with plastic

shields over their heads. Let's talk about the building itself. It is

still standing and it is, we believe, structurally secure. Why

might that be? Let's talk to a civil engineer. I did mention earlier, had

this building being constructed a few years earlier, it might not

still be standing? That is correct. What happened, the Roman point

collapse, a partial collapse of one corner of a building, all of the

kitchens in one corner collapse because of an explosion in one

kitchen. Although each element of the building was strong enough, they

weren't properly connected together. It was almost like a pack of cards.

So one incident in one apartment was always going to run the risk of

building the whole building down. After that, building regulations

were changed and by 1971, we had introduced systems of putting ties

through the building, from top to bottom and across each floor in two

directions and then peripheral ties running round the building, to tie

the whole thing together so that should there be an issue at one

place in the building, it wasn't going to affect anywhere else. And

that is why the building hasn't collapsed in the way the twin towers

did in 9/11 collapsed. Just to be clear, this block of flats you were

talking about, it was a block of flats back court fire in East London

in 1968. After that, they change the regulations? Yes, and it took three

years, until 1971 to get those regulations in force. This block was

built in 1974, so we presume it complied with those more robust

building regulations. We had Chris Myers, a forensic architect a few

minutes ago. He said he wasn't aware of what the structural integrity of

the building is at the moment, but maybe it won't have to be pulled

down. I presumed it would be demolished. Is that not the case? I

would be astonished if it wasn't demolished. The cost of refurbishing

that building would be greater than the cost of demolition and starting

again. OK. We are looking at some of the fire is still burning on the

upper floors this evening, is there anything about the construction of

the building that concentrates the fire in the centre of the building

and keeps it burning so long? Not really, I think what has happened

here, something unusual in that I think the fire seems to have started

around the perimeter of the building. From the fourth floor,

initial explosion, the fire spread very, very rapidly. It cannot do

that really through the building, because as we said earlier, each of

the apartments has won our fire resistance. So if a fire was going

to rise through 20 stories, it is essentially going to take 20 hours.

That didn't happen. And I think the reason it didn't happen was the fire

spread of the external walls of the building and the reason it is

burning now internally is because I think the original fire burned away

all the parts of the building near its perimeter and it progressively

spread towards the poor of the building, where it is now burning.

Thank you very much, very interesting. There are a lot of

people looking back historically at these fires in high-rise flats.

There was one in Camberwell and we hoped lessons would be learned from

that and people have been asking questions whether there was a

sufficient review. David Shipman has been taking a look at some of these

historical incidents and whether lessons should have been learned.

The wreckage of Grenfell House stands amid a cluster

Like many cities around the world, London has seen

Homes and offices, perched high above street level,

with a host of safety rules designed to resist fire.

But eight years ago, a blaze at this tower block in south

Southwark Council was fined for breaching fire regulations.

And there are plenty of expert voices today saying

that the lessons of what happened here at Lakanal House

Lakanal House demonstrated that people were at risk

The fire in west London last night, this morning, as demonstrated

that they are still at risk in their own homes.

These fires shouldn't be happening in 21st-century London.

We've got the ability to stop them from happening,

and when fires do break out, to restrict them to small areas

One key question in the spotlight today is about the design of tower

blocks, and how they are meant to keep people safe

Normally, a fire hose can only reach about 15 metres.

Grenfell Tower stands 67 metres high.

In America, they rely on what is called "active safety".

Sprinklers fight fires in every room, but that can be expensive.

The basic principle here, until recently, has been passive

safety, designing the building to confine any blaze

Another focus will be on the cladding fitted

to the outside of the building panels to improve insulation

and the look of older buildings like Grenfell Tower.

But dozens of fires have been linked to cladding around the world.

Two years ago, a skyscraper in Dubai caught fire,

New rules there have tightened up on the kind

Investigators here will explore what role the cladding might have played.

In the UK, it has to be what we call of limited combustibility.

I am sure that is going to be questioned now, after this fire.

What exactly that means, and what these types of cladding

systems are adding to the fire load on the building.

It was after the Second World War that councils and said

by moving away from old terraced homes coming to new

But their safety from fire depends on good design and care for.

London mayor says people living in tower blocks will now

need to be reassured, and fire professionals are shocked

Literally every single floor was on fire, internally.

You see one floor, two floors, and then a hopping

from floor to floor, maybe, over a period of time.

You would not normally see an entire facade on fire,

then all of the interior on fire at the same time.

So, the fire overcame whatever safety features were in place.

Last year, the Government promised a review into fire

safety in tower blocks, but then delayed it.

This disaster now makes that work a priority.

We can speak to Baroness Jenny Jones who wrote a report on the state of

social housing in 2010. I understand you did look into this fire in an

apartment block in Camberwell in 2009, what do you think we learned

from that and Steve think we did come lessons were applied over the

last few years, having missed something? The fire was that Lakmal

house which was a few yards from where I lived and so I took an

extreme interest and the London assembly looked at the fire and had

lots of evidence and what we found was it was the fire risk assessment

that was so lacking in so many places, not just there but in other

buildings and high-rise buildings over London. Something like one in

five was inadequate and the fire risk assessments are crucial because

they dictate how you convey the risk and safety measures to the tenants.

What we found was the advice given by the councils and by the assessors

but also the examinations and investigations by the assessors were

all often inadequate. Was there something in that report that we had

in 2009 that might apply to what we have seen here with Grenfell Tower?

Well, there were two big recommendations, we made several to

the Department for Communities and Local Government but the two big

ones where they should give national guidance to all owners of tower

blocks so they could do the right sort of fire risk assessments and

take everything into account and the other big recommendation was that

all social landlords should publish a register of their fire risks, what

we found again and again was the information was not getting through

to tenants, there is often a big turnover in his tower blocks of

people and if you do not give every single new president enough

information then it is likely they will not know what to do in the

event of a fire. Essentially, the fire risk safety recommendations we

made have never been implemented except by individual councils that

chose to do it. There has been strong words from the Grunfeld tower

action group in one of their blogs saying they were treated like vermin

by the tenant management organisation. Do you think the

social housing stock in London is of the right quality and does the need

to be big improvements? I live in an ex-local authority block myself and

I think it is superb so of course there are some buildings that are

not going to come up to safety standards but in London we

absolutely need social housing, we are not building enough and the

thought that people do not feel safe in them is fairly horrendous. I

think that there has to be a public enquiry now, I hate recommended

public enquiries, they say take man, they are expensive but there is no

choice here because we never want to see this again. No, indeed. Thank

you very much for being with us. 12 people are confirmed to have been

killed but the police are warning that the death toll may well rise.

The BBC has confirmed the identities of six of the missing.

HE READS LIST OF NAMES There are another six and it is entirely

possible that the death toll will rise as the police are warning. The

London Ambulance Service took over 60 people at hospital.

Paramedics, trauma teams and the London ambulance were all involved

in a highly coordinated response. The key was to stabilise patients

and get them to one of six hospitals where specialist teams were on stand

by. At St Marys we are caring for 16 patients, three of whom are in

critical condition. At Charing Cross Hospital we have four patients none

of whom are critical. We are continuing to care for patients who

are primarily suffering from the effects of smoke inhalation.

Inhaling smoke can damage the lungs and airways and may also cause

carbon monoxide poisoning. Specialist burns teams were on stand

by but it is understood they did not treat any casualties. 12 hours after

it broke out, a toxic cloud was still billowing from Grenfell Tower

leading to concerned residents handing out facemasks donated by

local firms. There are toxic substances in the building that we

aware of. And everywhere you look in the surrounding area, these black

suttee fragments. This children's playground is littered with pieces

of debris which floated down from the building and are pieces of

installation from the outside of the tower block and you can taste the

soot at the back of your throat. Everyone's main concern is for the

residents of Grenfell Tower. But there are worries to for those

living nearby. We found it hard to breathe and it felt like tasting the

smoke so do not know the effect on our lungs. We have elderly

vulnerable residents, people with severe disabilities, little children

as well, under five. St Mary's and Charing Cross hospitals say the

Accident and Emergency departments remain very busy and ask the public

to use walk-in centres or their GP unless it is an emergency. Allowing

them to focus on those injured in this appalling tragedy.

Within just a few hours of the fire breaking out -

people were arriving at the shelters that have been set up

here in churches, sports and community centres.

Some people in the stairwell in their dressing gowns and boxer

shorts, no clothes, lost their worldly possessions and what is

extraordinary is that the people from the community have pulled

together through the day, people going through the course with bags

of shopping, toothbrushes, toiletries and food and water,

anything they can supply to help. And also facemasks because up until

the last few hours the smoke in the air was pretty acrid and difficult

to move around without filling it in the back of your throat.

They have been overwhelmed with donations. Today we have bought the

phone chargers and we have given people the phone chargers to help

them call loved ones and to make sure they are safe and everyone

knows where everybody is. We have also donated some money, to

families, Darren withdraw ?1000 out of his account and we have been

giving families ?100 to see them over the next couple of days. It is

amazing how I've run has come out in the community, people will stick

together in a time like this. And how caring people are. This hall is

full of provisions from shoes to toiletries, people are sharing their

homes and others are offering their time. I see that Londoners together

and regardless of your background, I am from Brazil, everybody got

together, and amazing feeling. This hall is full of clothes, baby stuff

and food and water it is amazing. On another corner, just moments away

from where people have lost their lives, and others all their

possessions, there are more supplies. Bedding, headscarves,

toiletries, everything you can think of that people might want. This is

food, texts are coming in, new centres are opening where people can

take donations. I happened to be nearby. I have a seven-year-old

daughter and I took her to school and on that road there was a clear

view of the tower and what was going on and the fire was really going at

that point early in the morning and she understands what is going on and

so after school we came by here and she went to help low donations from

this box into the van taking them on to the shelters. This is an area

where there is wealth and those who have very little. People from all

backgrounds trying to do their best. This community is strong, it is not

about rich and poor, you see people with suits and people with

tracksuits just helping and doing what they can do. There are also

people here from different castes and colours. Yeah, we from the sea

community are doing our best make sure there is WaterAid. Such has

been the response centres in North Kensington say they now enough

supplies but for those who have lost everything, the need has only just

begun. Incredibly difficult day for the

firefighters here, the men and women who have been here out of the

building, it has been hot here in London and have worked tirelessly to

put out fires in a building although tonight you can see behind me there

are still some fires which are burning in the upper floors. Paul

Fuller is in Dunstable for us. For those of us who are joining us,

explain what it is like for a firefighter going into a building

that is ablaze like this one was last night? Well, extremely arduous.

Firstly, my eye for all of our thoughts to those people who are

affected by this dreadful incident and also respect to the women and

men of London Fire Brigade who have have worked so hard to hard to try

to help them. In conditions which, as you identified, must be awful.

Hot, very difficult, full of anxiety and certainly a very difficult

operation for them. Can I get your thoughts on the state put message

that was given to residents in the block, do you think it is still

valid, should it still be in place in these apartment blocks? State put

has been and will continue to be a very successful policy. In effect it

means that we are using the design of the building to create safety

compartments to which people can remain so the fire can be dealt with

on another floor and once the fire is dealt with than the people are

safely kept in their fire compartment which is their own home.

It does depend on the way the fire behaves and the way the building

behaves. And an incident commander will make a decision based on

whether the fire is behaving as expected or not to decide whether to

stay with the state put policy for that specific incident or move to

evacuation. The problem is that when you change the instructions, the

only way to get it out of the building when there is no intercom

system is to firefighters to go door-to-door and tell people to

leave and that in a situation like that is not possible. And that is

what London Fire Brigade have been doing so well today to evacuate

people out of the building but clearly if people do not remain in

the safety of their flats, then you have the problem of large numbers

moving to the building potentially to a hazardous environment and say

that decision has to be made at some point during the operation but that

is an operational decision which would be made by officers at the

scene according to their local policy. In terms of the fires that

are still burning here tonight, I expect that is pretty common after a

blaze as intense as this one, what to firefighters doing a situation

like this, do you target those flames or can you let them burn out?

Each fire is different but clearly in this case the London Fire

Commissioner and her officers will be trying to determine those best

strategies for that incident. OK, thank you very much indeed for that.

I did tell you a short while ago that we have confirmed the

identities of six of the missing. They are missing and not confirmed

dead at this stage. HE READS LIST OF NAMES They at six of the missing but

I want to stress, they are not confirmed dead, they are at this

stage only missing. If there are viewers in the UK who are concerned

about loved ones who might have been in the apartment block there was an

emergency number that has been for anyone concerned. The casual to

bureau number.