Browse content similar to 04/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Hello and welcome to BBC News. We
are going to bring you a special | 0:00:21 | 0:00:29 | |
programme tonight, to bring you the
very latest on the elections that | 0:00:29 | 0:00:34 | |
have been going on in Italy. It is a
general election and Italians are | 0:00:34 | 0:00:39 | |
waiting to find out who will form
their new government. Of course, | 0:00:39 | 0:00:45 | |
Italy is famous for its coalitions
and this time it is even more | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
uncertain than ever, partly because
of the populist groups like a Five | 0:00:49 | 0:00:53 | |
Star Movement, who are predicted to
do well today, and partly due to | 0:00:53 | 0:00:59 | |
changes in the whole voting system.
These are pictures of today, Matteo | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
Renzi casting his vote. And, of
course, the polls are about to | 0:01:03 | 0:01:11 | |
close. The former Prime Minister
Silvio Berlusconi has re-emerged as | 0:01:11 | 0:01:17 | |
a political force, even though he
cannot stand and become Prime | 0:01:17 | 0:01:21 | |
Minister as yet because of a fraud
charge. He is frame much seen as a | 0:01:21 | 0:01:27 | |
power. This is Matteo Renzi casting
his vote today. It is expected there | 0:01:27 | 0:01:34 | |
could again be a coalition. Let's
get the very latest on the | 0:01:34 | 0:01:40 | |
background to this whole election.
Italians are electing members of | 0:01:40 | 0:01:48 | |
both Houses of Parliament. 630 in
the lower house of deputies and 315 | 0:01:48 | 0:01:55 | |
in the upper house, the Senate but
at this time the system has been | 0:01:55 | 0:02:00 | |
tweaked so that seeds of first past
The Post, the candidate with most | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
votes in the district wins. The
other ones are chosen by | 0:02:04 | 0:02:09 | |
proportional representation, based
on the share of the vote nationally. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
This election sees some new faces
and not so new battling it out for | 0:02:12 | 0:02:19 | |
supremacy. The keeper is likely to
be Silvio Berlusconi. Yes, here's | 0:02:19 | 0:02:24 | |
back. -- a key player. If fraud
conviction bars him from holding | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
office at least until next year. He
is teamed up with two parties on the | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
hard right, including La Lega. The
Five Star Movement could gain at the | 0:02:34 | 0:02:49 | |
expense of Matteo Renzi's ruling
Democratic Party who are trailing in | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
the polls. Italian politics is all
about coalitions. Which combination | 0:02:52 | 0:02:58 | |
could come out on top? One
possibility is a right-wing | 0:02:58 | 0:03:03 | |
coalition with Fortson Italia and my
league joined by the brothers of | 0:03:03 | 0:03:12 | |
Italy. The other centre-left party
Free And Equal have refuse the idea | 0:03:12 | 0:03:21 | |
of a coalition for that there could
be a German star grand coalition | 0:03:21 | 0:03:26 | |
between centre-left and centre right
foot of it is all very uncertain. -- | 0:03:26 | 0:03:30 | |
a German style coalition between
centre-left and centre right. That | 0:03:30 | 0:03:41 | |
was an explanation of the background
to the election. Let's get the | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
latest now. Katya has been following
the build-up to today's vote. In | 0:03:44 | 0:03:52 | |
polling stations across Italy today
there was a sense of uncertainty. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
Voters told us they wanted change
but were not sure which political | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
party to trust.
TRANSLATION: Italians are abused and | 0:04:01 | 0:04:10 | |
frustrated. Logicians need to hear
our boys today. I am so worried | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
about Italy, I said a prayer before
coming to vote. -- our voice today. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:23 | |
The current government is preparing
for a bruising at the polls. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
Italians say top concern is the
insecure job market, concerned with | 0:04:27 | 0:04:33 | |
the Euro and mass migration from
Africa. Luigi Di Maio is the leader | 0:04:33 | 0:04:40 | |
of the Five Star Movement, tipped
tonight to become Italy's largest | 0:04:40 | 0:04:45 | |
political party. I caught up with
him in Naples before he cast his | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
vote. Traditional politicians have
been telling Italians everything is | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
fine when it is not. I want to be
amongst the people. The political | 0:04:53 | 0:05:00 | |
system here favours coalitions. His
controversial party could be left | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
out in the cold. Meaning this a
million face could be kingmaker | 0:05:03 | 0:05:10 | |
instead. Naples and the South of
Italy will swing today's vote. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:17 | |
Silvio Berlusconi campaigned here
this weekend on behalf of a | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
right-wing coalition peppered with
populists, like this rising star | 0:05:21 | 0:05:27 | |
anti-immigration politician voting
today in Milan. So, what does this | 0:05:27 | 0:05:34 | |
rather chaotic political picture
mean for Italy and Europe? After all | 0:05:34 | 0:05:39 | |
this is the Eurozone's third largest
economy. Confusion is went | 0:05:39 | 0:05:46 | |
essentially Italian. Rascals is used
to it, the financial markets seemed | 0:05:46 | 0:05:54 | |
prepared for it. -- Brussels they
believe a coalition government with | 0:05:54 | 0:05:58 | |
watered-down populist policies on
offer. How does that help Italians | 0:05:58 | 0:06:02 | |
get to grips with the problems?
There is a civilian protest party in | 0:06:02 | 0:06:08 | |
Naples. These days, Italy's Leticia
's blame everything on immigration | 0:06:08 | 0:06:13 | |
but that is a life of the youth
unemployment and precarious | 0:06:13 | 0:06:17 | |
contracts are our problem. That is
why Italians feel badly. Votes now | 0:06:17 | 0:06:24 | |
passed, all Italians can do is wait.
Today's election will be followed by | 0:06:24 | 0:06:30 | |
weeks of political horse trading.
Change does not come fast in Italy. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:36 | |
We are indeed getting details of the
first projections from the Italian | 0:06:36 | 0:06:40 | |
general election. Local media is
predicting now be no overall | 0:06:40 | 0:06:45 | |
majority in the new parliament. One
report saying the Five Star Movement | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
will be the largest single party.
Let us get more now live from Rome. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:59 | |
Welcome to Rome. Absolute deluge
cheer. The polls have just closed | 0:06:59 | 0:07:05 | |
but as the polls closed, the first
exit polls came out. We had to treat | 0:07:05 | 0:07:11 | |
them with caution. There is a
significant margin of error. You | 0:07:11 | 0:07:16 | |
outlined the main headlines. The
Five Star Movement is coming out by | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
far the largest single party. The
exit poll also pointing to a hung | 0:07:20 | 0:07:27 | |
parliament, no block or single party
has managed to secure the necessary | 0:07:27 | 0:07:32 | |
majority. What we would expect now
is a process of discussions and | 0:07:32 | 0:07:39 | |
talks for the forming of a coalition
government. Let's talk to the | 0:07:39 | 0:07:47 | |
director of the centre of
formulations and an editor, Antonio. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
What does this mean in practice? In
practice, it is not going to be | 0:07:53 | 0:07:58 | |
really different from what we have
been seeing in the last weeks with | 0:07:58 | 0:08:02 | |
the previous polls. Actually, the
big difference is, as you said, the | 0:08:02 | 0:08:09 | |
Five Star Movement is going to be
the first party but it is going to | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
be over the 30% ratio, so it is
quite interesting. The outcome, | 0:08:13 | 0:08:18 | |
according to these numbers and if
they will stay the same until | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
tomorrow morning, the outcome is
almost the same we don't have a | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
majority, so you will start
mediation. We will be having | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
negotiations. The most interesting
thing is that Forza Italia, and La | 0:08:29 | 0:08:40 | |
Lega, they are on the same level, so
we will see. We're looking at | 0:08:40 | 0:08:46 | |
pictures of the Five Star Movement
election event. This is a really | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
significant achievement. They were a
force that did not exist a few years | 0:08:49 | 0:08:56 | |
ago. Absolutely right foot if this
is confirmed it means that almost | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
one out of three people in Italy
voted for the Five Star Movement. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:05 | |
Definitely. When we started the
negotiations, because nobody has | 0:09:05 | 0:09:10 | |
reached the 40% threshold that is
required by this law in order to | 0:09:10 | 0:09:15 | |
rule the country, I think the head
of state will have to start with the | 0:09:15 | 0:09:20 | |
Five Star Movement. No doubt about
that. It would be very strange if a | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
party with a far smaller share of
the vote were allowed to start to | 0:09:24 | 0:09:31 | |
try forming a government. We cannot
ignore it. It is such a bold | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
statement by the Italians. No doubt
about that. As we said before, there | 0:09:36 | 0:09:41 | |
is another indication, I think,
which is particularly interesting. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
If this is confirmed, and if Matteo
silvery ani -- Salvini is ahead, if | 0:09:45 | 0:09:59 | |
it is confirmed this is the end of
Silvio Boase Coney's leadership in | 0:09:59 | 0:10:04 | |
the centre right and the North
league will have a strong say in | 0:10:04 | 0:10:09 | |
that coalition. -- Silvio
Berlusconi. What difference do think | 0:10:09 | 0:10:14 | |
the new electoral system will have
made question papers looked at being | 0:10:14 | 0:10:20 | |
something to keep the Five Star
Movement down. We need to consider | 0:10:20 | 0:10:24 | |
that these figures can change very
much during the night. This | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
electoral system is very difficult
in this scheme. First the | 0:10:28 | 0:10:38 | |
proportional vote and then the first
past The Post votes. It is difficult | 0:10:38 | 0:10:46 | |
now. It is up to the president of
the Republic to decide how to start | 0:10:46 | 0:10:52 | |
this negotiation. The first
milestone we have to consider is | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
that, on the 23rd of March, the
Senate and the chamber will appoint | 0:10:56 | 0:11:02 | |
President. We will see if we have a
kind of majority balance between the | 0:11:02 | 0:11:07 | |
groups and then we can understand
how the negotiation will go. The | 0:11:07 | 0:11:13 | |
left, the centre-left coalition, is
really trailing 20% to 23%, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:21 | |
according to the X8 poll. I am just
looking at the Democratic Party now. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:29 | |
-- the X8 poll. It is around 23%,
not a huge score. I would also put | 0:11:29 | 0:11:38 | |
in question the leadership of the
current secretary. Altogether... | 0:11:38 | 0:11:45 | |
Matteo Renzi, the former Prime
Minister. The coalition together, | 0:11:45 | 0:11:51 | |
they will have to start compromising
and accepting conditions proposed by | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
others. Do we have any idea what the
main, or the most likely, | 0:11:55 | 0:12:05 | |
possibilities for a coalition
combination might be? At the moment | 0:12:05 | 0:12:09 | |
you could just take your pick.
Exactly. It is like that you can | 0:12:09 | 0:12:17 | |
take any party. Trying to find if
you can reach a majority. Actually, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:22 | |
I think it is too soon to go like
that. In the previous days there | 0:12:22 | 0:12:28 | |
have been talks about negotiation
between the Democratic Party and the | 0:12:28 | 0:12:34 | |
Forza Italia. It appears to be on
the model of the broad coalition, | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
like in Germany, for example. Then
we start to think about the Five | 0:12:38 | 0:12:44 | |
Star Movement with the Northern
League. That would be the populist | 0:12:44 | 0:12:49 | |
apocalypse that some people were
scared of. Populist, exactly will | 0:12:49 | 0:12:58 | |
stop How many days, weeks and months
to rethink... It is hard to guess, | 0:12:58 | 0:13:04 | |
isn't it? Will it be as long as
Germany? Will we see the same thing | 0:13:04 | 0:13:12 | |
in Italy? We have to wait at least
until three o'clock in the morning, | 0:13:12 | 0:13:19 | |
if not much longer, maybe six, seven
o'clock, to have secured data that | 0:13:19 | 0:13:24 | |
we can say something will stop in
any case you can have any kind of | 0:13:24 | 0:13:30 | |
scenario and we will see a period of
speculation and negotiations. The | 0:13:30 | 0:13:37 | |
most Eurosceptic scenario of course
will be the Five Star Movement | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
together with the North league. That
would be the scariest one of those | 0:13:41 | 0:13:45 | |
who believed in the European
project. As we were mentioning | 0:13:45 | 0:13:51 | |
before, there have been rumours of
negotiations between the Democratic | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
Party and Silvio Berlusconi's is a
Italia. But we have to see the | 0:13:55 | 0:14:02 | |
numbers. How much caution should we
have? -- Forza Italia. A lot of | 0:14:02 | 0:14:10 | |
caution. She was saying until three
in the morning, maybe later, we do | 0:14:10 | 0:14:17 | |
not know. We are not secure about
what we are seeing. It is really | 0:14:17 | 0:14:24 | |
difficult to make a call at this
moment, especially if there is a gap | 0:14:24 | 0:14:29 | |
between the weakest part and the
strongest one. I want to come back | 0:14:29 | 0:14:35 | |
to the other question. You ask how
long it will take will stop at least | 0:14:35 | 0:14:44 | |
a month before the parliament has
selected its president and then we | 0:14:44 | 0:14:50 | |
start the negotiation. The new MPs,
the new government were they all | 0:14:50 | 0:14:54 | |
have to sit down in the building
behind us and in the Senate before | 0:14:54 | 0:14:58 | |
the President can actually give a
mandate to try to form a coalition | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
to the chosen party? Exactly. It
will be like that. You'll be April | 0:15:02 | 0:15:09 | |
at least we will see within two
months if we can have a government. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:15 | |
-- it will be April. Two months. Can
we guess? I don't really know. Let's | 0:15:15 | 0:15:25 | |
see what happens. I am wondering
about your thoughts about the | 0:15:25 | 0:15:30 | |
campaign and how it has compare the
previous election campaigns fought | 0:15:30 | 0:15:34 | |
at the last general election was in
2013. Has this seemed more bitter | 0:15:34 | 0:15:41 | |
because of the migrant crisis which
has reared since the last election? | 0:15:41 | 0:15:46 | |
It has. It has been a strange
campaign in my opinion. We have seen | 0:15:46 | 0:15:52 | |
so many different items on the
agenda. Maybe sometimes, not really | 0:15:52 | 0:16:00 | |
going into details, but I think this
is the same for all electoral | 0:16:00 | 0:16:06 | |
campaigns. This time I think the
real difference was the fact that at | 0:16:06 | 0:16:12 | |
least one political party with the
news at the end of the campaign with | 0:16:12 | 0:16:18 | |
the thing about presentation and the
Five Star Movement and the list of | 0:16:18 | 0:16:24 | |
ministers. This was seen from
outside is something really new and | 0:16:24 | 0:16:28 | |
interesting, maybe unusual according
to this parliament but it was | 0:16:28 | 0:16:35 | |
different. Interesting to see if it
has an impact on the outcome of the | 0:16:35 | 0:16:40 | |
vote. Stay with us. We will be
speaking a lot more. We are here in | 0:16:40 | 0:16:48 | |
Rome, the capital. There is a
Northern powerhouse in Milan, of | 0:16:48 | 0:16:54 | |
course. James Reynolds is there. How
are things looking? People here are | 0:16:54 | 0:17:00 | |
waiting to see whether or not the
exit polls we confirmed, and really | 0:17:00 | 0:17:07 | |
the league party, formerly known as
the Northern League, whether or not | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
it really has made as a national
force, capable of having an | 0:17:11 | 0:17:17 | |
influential say in the Government.
The party founded here in 1991 was | 0:17:17 | 0:17:22 | |
the secessionist party. It wanted to
leave Italy. Now it wants to lead | 0:17:22 | 0:17:29 | |
the country. It will wait to see
whether or not its support holds up | 0:17:29 | 0:17:36 | |
when the real results come in. How
great, James, are the economic | 0:17:36 | 0:17:44 | |
differences between North and South
in Italy? In some ways, they are two | 0:17:44 | 0:17:51 | |
different countries, bolted together
by the geography of Italy. When you | 0:17:51 | 0:17:57 | |
look around Milan, and you take the
train six hours to the south and you | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
look around the south, you realise
there is a huge golf in the GDP in | 0:18:01 | 0:18:06 | |
the standard of living. Bearing in
mind that was the fuel for the | 0:18:06 | 0:18:10 | |
Northern League when it was a
regional secessionist party. It | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
said, why should we have to
subsidise the South? Now it wants to | 0:18:15 | 0:18:20 | |
lead the South. It has brought in a
new enemy, migrants, illegal | 0:18:20 | 0:18:26 | |
migrants. I put that to the leader
of the party week or so ago. He | 0:18:26 | 0:18:32 | |
corrected me when I said migrants.
He wants to be a national voice. The | 0:18:32 | 0:18:38 | |
party has to reconcile the fact that
for many years the rhetoric was | 0:18:38 | 0:18:42 | |
aimed against the South making it
difficult for Southerners to vote | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
for a party which has had its
loudest voice in the North will stop | 0:18:45 | 0:18:51 | |
James, you have been travelling the
country, as you mentioned was | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
speaking to all sorts of keep
layers. How has the election | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
campaign fell to you? -- players.
Angry and divisive. A lot of | 0:18:58 | 0:19:06 | |
Italians when they look back on it
will look back at one town to be | 0:19:06 | 0:19:13 | |
symbolic of the election. In January
there was a story about the murder | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
of a young Italian woman. Italian
authorities have been looking at a | 0:19:17 | 0:19:24 | |
migrants as a possible suspect.
Shortly after that and Italian far | 0:19:24 | 0:19:30 | |
right sympathiser shot at six
migrants in that town. It came to | 0:19:30 | 0:19:37 | |
symbolise a very bitter and very
divisive campaign. Thank you very | 0:19:37 | 0:19:43 | |
much. James Reynolds reporting live
from Milan. Back here in Rome, I am | 0:19:43 | 0:19:52 | |
joined by someone from force Italia,
the party of the centre-right in the | 0:19:52 | 0:19:59 | |
coalition -- Forza Italia. Thank you
for joining us. How disappointed are | 0:19:59 | 0:20:04 | |
you with the exit poll results so
far? I am waiting for the final | 0:20:04 | 0:20:08 | |
results. It is more or less the
intention of the voting but I'm | 0:20:08 | 0:20:15 | |
waiting for the final results. I am
happy because now my organisation is | 0:20:15 | 0:20:22 | |
in last position. We are waiting for
that. Just looking at the Forza | 0:20:22 | 0:20:34 | |
Italia figures, 12.5% to 15% at the
same as the coalition partners to | 0:20:34 | 0:20:43 | |
the right of view. Is this the end
of Silvio Berlusconi? Absolutely | 0:20:43 | 0:20:48 | |
not. We will check at the end but
the result is good for us. We also | 0:20:48 | 0:20:57 | |
have the original campaign in
Lombardi and in Lazio. It is | 0:20:57 | 0:21:04 | |
important, the Forza Italia results
in this region. It is important to | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
understand what has happened
tomorrow. At the moment, nobody is | 0:21:08 | 0:21:15 | |
able to organise and to create a
government. If you have your | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
coalition partners on the same or
greater share of your block vote, | 0:21:19 | 0:21:25 | |
then your party, there will be a
power struggle surely. Mateas | 0:21:25 | 0:21:31 | |
Salvini surely wants to be in a
position of being in charge. Pay | 0:21:31 | 0:21:37 | |
attention. Jawing his campaign, he
made it clear he didn't and doesn't | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
want to go out to Europe and, about
this argument, we have the same | 0:21:42 | 0:21:50 | |
line. We need to have ten clear
points in the programme. This is the | 0:21:50 | 0:22:00 | |
rule. He seems to have softened his
line on Europe a little. In the past | 0:22:00 | 0:22:05 | |
he said the Euro was a crime against
humanity. No, no. I know very well | 0:22:05 | 0:22:13 | |
the value. If you check the last
declaration of Mateas Salvini -- | 0:22:13 | 0:22:21 | |
Mateas Salvini, you know he will
want to stay in Europe. He has said | 0:22:21 | 0:22:27 | |
things like Mussolini obtained great
things for Italy. Mussolini is one | 0:22:27 | 0:22:35 | |
of my colleagues. I think Benito may
have been the person he was talking | 0:22:35 | 0:22:42 | |
about. I think the past is the past
and the present is the present. We | 0:22:42 | 0:22:47 | |
would like to discuss about jobs,
about the young unemployment and | 0:22:47 | 0:22:53 | |
about the real problem that we have,
not about the past. The past is | 0:22:53 | 0:22:57 | |
closed for us. If you consider the
period of Mussolini, the period of | 0:22:57 | 0:23:03 | |
the Communists, it is another era.
Is it time for a big change in Forza | 0:23:03 | 0:23:09 | |
Italia question that we have seen
Silvio Berlusconi trying to reinvent | 0:23:09 | 0:23:13 | |
himself, trying to win the Hearts of
the Italians who see him as a safe | 0:23:13 | 0:23:18 | |
pair of hands. Some words and ideas,
that are not Italian but European | 0:23:18 | 0:23:32 | |
and American newspapers. Not only
say about other skinny before the | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
election. We are happy that Silvio
Boesky only is present. -- | 0:23:35 | 0:23:50 | |
Berlusconi. Also in the UK or in
America, they declared that | 0:23:50 | 0:23:57 | |
Berlusconi is the solution of this
problem. I think it is right. Thank | 0:23:57 | 0:24:04 | |
you very much. We shall see what
happens. Let's move to the new force | 0:24:04 | 0:24:10 | |
in Italian politics that we have
been hearing so much about, the Five | 0:24:10 | 0:24:16 | |
Star Movement, which has really done
incredibly well, according to the | 0:24:16 | 0:24:20 | |
exit polls over 30% of the vote. My
colleague is at the Five Star | 0:24:20 | 0:24:26 | |
Movement election event, just across
town from where we are. Just tell us | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
what the atmosphere is like. Well,
the atmosphere here is both of | 0:24:29 | 0:24:37 | |
celebration and great expectation.
That is because everyone is waiting | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
to see how accurate the exit polls
really will be. If the margin | 0:24:41 | 0:24:46 | |
between the centre-right coalition
is really narrow, the president will | 0:24:46 | 0:24:52 | |
have to choose the Five Star
Movement to give them the mandate to | 0:24:52 | 0:24:58 | |
form a government. This is an
historic result. We are talking of | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
the party that ten years ago did not
exist. It started as a protest | 0:25:02 | 0:25:08 | |
movement, a movement against
political corruption, efficiencies | 0:25:08 | 0:25:12 | |
of the Public Administration. Ten
years later it is confirming itself | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
as the first largest party in the
Italian parliament. It is a great | 0:25:16 | 0:25:21 | |
result, undoubtedly. Many people
wonder what exactly does the Five | 0:25:21 | 0:25:29 | |
Star Movement stand for? You have
told us what they often say they are | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
against the how they want to change
things, but are they able to be | 0:25:33 | 0:25:38 | |
defined by left, right or centre or
none of the above? Well, that is the | 0:25:38 | 0:25:46 | |
novelty of the Five Star Movement.
When they presented themselves as a | 0:25:46 | 0:25:51 | |
party, they said they were neither
right nor left wing. That is | 0:25:51 | 0:25:57 | |
something of the past. The Five Star
Movement looks at the democracy. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
They think that the web and intranet
is the new way to give a voice to | 0:26:01 | 0:26:07 | |
all voters and they are looking at
good things for Italy and the | 0:26:07 | 0:26:16 | |
interests of the country. Their
candidates are people who do not | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
have political experience. They say,
we are honest people and that should | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
be enough as to lead the country. It
is difficult to define what the Five | 0:26:24 | 0:26:29 | |
Star Movement stands for. Many of
their policies are agreed online. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:35 | |
They just published their proposals
and people can vote what they prefer | 0:26:35 | 0:26:39 | |
to do and that is how they define
their political agenda will stop | 0:26:39 | 0:26:45 | |
even on issues like immigration or
the European Union, the Five Star | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
Movement listens to what people
want. That is also part of the | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
reason why they have been so
successful. They really are | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
listening to what voters want. For
the good side and the bad things as | 0:26:57 | 0:27:03 | |
well. Thank you very much for the
moment. Let's bring in the BBC put | 0:27:03 | 0:27:15 | |
back Europe editor, who is with me
and has been following things | 0:27:15 | 0:27:19 | |
closely. You have been in Naples.
What do you do have from the figures | 0:27:19 | 0:27:24 | |
we have at the moment of the scene?
Two main ideas. What a slap in the | 0:27:24 | 0:27:31 | |
face for the ruling centre-right.
They say they have started to | 0:27:31 | 0:27:35 | |
implement reforms and that the
Italian economy after the double-dip | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
recession is slowly getting on its
feet again. Voters were not with | 0:27:39 | 0:27:44 | |
them today. He were they with? The
Five Star Movement. The young | 0:27:44 | 0:27:51 | |
upstart party looks to be Italy's
largest party. It is not big enough | 0:27:51 | 0:27:55 | |
to govern on its own. There will be
weeks now of horse trading ahead and | 0:27:55 | 0:28:01 | |
the Five Star Movement may not make
it into government. The fact that in | 0:28:01 | 0:28:05 | |
the lower and upper house of
parliament, the upper house of | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
parliament is key. The age you can
vote is from 25 upwards. The Five | 0:28:09 | 0:28:14 | |
Star Movement has been seen as
something for the young and ignorant | 0:28:14 | 0:28:19 | |
he wants something exciting. If the
over 25 voted today, it means they | 0:28:19 | 0:28:25 | |
are onto something and it is a very
big nose thumb to the traditional | 0:28:25 | 0:28:30 | |
parties in Italy. The kind of upsets
we have seen from Germany to Denmark | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
to Sweden. There is a movement in
politics and things are changing. In | 0:28:34 | 0:28:40 | |
Italy things will not change fast
enough. The Five Star Movement have | 0:28:40 | 0:28:45 | |
said they would be a pillar of the
next government. How will Europe be | 0:28:45 | 0:28:51 | |
looking at this? It is interesting.
From a European perspective, it is | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
not long ago that European leaders
pretty much forced out Silvio | 0:28:55 | 0:29:00 | |
Berlusconi. This was at the height
of the problems in Italy for W is | 0:29:00 | 0:29:04 | |
seen as a laughing stock because he
was surrounded by scandal and was | 0:29:04 | 0:29:09 | |
convicted of tax fraud that means he
cannot stand for Parliament. His | 0:29:09 | 0:29:15 | |
party could be a kingmaker and
surrounded by populist figures, the | 0:29:15 | 0:29:19 | |
Five Star Movement on the one side
and La Lega on the other. Europe | 0:29:19 | 0:29:24 | |
looks to Sylvia both go only as an
elder statesman and a calming | 0:29:24 | 0:29:29 | |
figure. -- Silvio Berlusconi. It
shows what a state of turmoil | 0:29:29 | 0:29:35 | |
Italian politics is in. Turmoil
tonight. I was in Milan before, | 0:29:35 | 0:29:41 | |
Naples, and now in Rome for the many
feel they are cynical. After all the | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
horse trading, whether things really
will change. You have been all over | 0:29:45 | 0:29:52 | |
the country, as you have mentioned.
How much has the ideology of the far | 0:29:52 | 0:29:58 | |
right filtered into the mainstream
in people's use, particularly with | 0:29:58 | 0:30:05 | |
immigration? The anti-immigration
rhetoric was a bandwagon that most | 0:30:05 | 0:30:07 | |
parties jumped on in the election
campaign. It was divisive and people | 0:30:07 | 0:30:12 | |
had to think, what can we use to get
extra votes? It was a cheap trick. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:18 | |
For many Italians, not at all, it is
something they are worried about. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:25 | |
Many African migrants have come by
vote to Italy. Most of them wanted | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
to go north into the rest of Europe.
They got stuck in Italy and even | 0:30:27 | 0:30:33 | |
though the amount of non-Italians
living in Italy is only around 10%, | 0:30:33 | 0:30:37 | |
in voter polls they think it is
three to four times more than that | 0:30:37 | 0:30:42 | |
and they feel threatened by
globalisation, unemployment and | 0:30:42 | 0:30:47 | |
migration as well. I think you can
see a European theme. The parties at | 0:30:47 | 0:30:52 | |
the centre, like Berlusconi pulse
like party are stealing rhetoric | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
from the right because they know it
is a vote winner, anti-immigration, | 0:30:57 | 0:31:02 | |
also things like security is high as
well. You mentioned the left. Where | 0:31:02 | 0:31:08 | |
are they? The centre-left, we have
Matteo Renzi, the former Prime | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
Minister put in charge but they have
taken a beating. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:21 | |
Chris Jericho was supposed to | 0:31:21 | 0:31:22 | |
with the centre-left, it is a
European team, where is the centre | 0:31:32 | 0:31:36 | |
left across Europe? Today they
agreed to join a coalition with | 0:31:36 | 0:31:39 | |
Angela Merkel in Germany but on the
back of a performance that was its | 0:31:39 | 0:31:43 | |
worst ever in modern German history.
I think across Europe waters are | 0:31:43 | 0:31:49 | |
punishing the centre-left for the
economic crisis. There are | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
traditional base of workers saw the
centre-left | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
traditional base of workers saw the
centre-left propping up government | 0:31:55 | 0:31:56 | |
decisions to bail out the banks
before the people and that is | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
something voters will not forgive
them for and I think it's a mixture | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
of reasons here in Italy but that
will be in the next night. What can | 0:32:03 | 0:32:08 | |
we expect now? Over the forthcoming
hours we will get exit polls | 0:32:08 | 0:32:12 | |
becoming slightly clearer and when
is the definitive result of what is | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
not very definitive at all in the
election going to be with us? We can | 0:32:16 | 0:32:21 | |
do an Italian gesture here, who
knows? This is Italian politics. We | 0:32:21 | 0:32:26 | |
don't know what kind of horse
trading is going to go ahead. Silvio | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
Berlusconi will try to push for his
right-wing coalition and I take | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
issue with it being cold centre
right because it's some very far | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
right elements in the. He's going to
try to go for the mathematics of | 0:32:36 | 0:32:41 | |
that one. Tonight we are in the
lower house of parliament but in | 0:32:41 | 0:32:45 | |
buildings all over Italy politicians
will be huddled together as Italians | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
will be in front of their TV
screens, worrying and wondering | 0:32:49 | 0:32:53 | |
about the mathematics. You will pull
it off and who is going to lead the | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
next time government? Right now we
cannot predict but it will be hard | 0:32:57 | 0:33:02 | |
for the new biggest party to make
coalition friends in government. It | 0:33:02 | 0:33:08 | |
will be interesting to watch. We
talked about immigration being such | 0:33:08 | 0:33:15 | |
a important thing, and unemployment.
It's the same problem as brands, | 0:33:15 | 0:33:25 | |
youth unemployment, Marine Le Pen
did very well, youth unemployment is | 0:33:25 | 0:33:29 | |
chronic in Italy particularly in the
south, in parts of Sicily it's up to | 0:33:29 | 0:33:35 | |
50%, Italy wide it can be 30%. This
is unacceptable for young people and | 0:33:35 | 0:33:40 | |
their parents to tolerate. So that
is the kind of picture we are | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
seeing. Thank you very much. Let's
go back to Milan. James, talking to | 0:33:43 | 0:33:53 | |
summon the people in Rome, I often
got the same answer, complete and | 0:33:53 | 0:33:59 | |
utter exhaustion with the
politicians in charge. A lot of | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
people telling me today they were
not going to bother voting, how is | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
the situation up there? Here the
funny thing, people say that but | 0:34:05 | 0:34:12 | |
then turn out in Italy is usually
reasonably high. In other words | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
people grumble but they grumble on
the way by and large to the Polling | 0:34:17 | 0:34:22 | |
Station. Older people tend to come
out and vote more than younger | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
people. Silvio Berlusconi knows
that, he knows older people watch TV | 0:34:25 | 0:34:31 | |
which is why a lot of his campaign
was based on TV, hoping for a strong | 0:34:31 | 0:34:36 | |
turnout amongst older voters to try
to counteract as you have been | 0:34:36 | 0:34:40 | |
discussing the potentially strong
showing of the 5-star movement among | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
young people. One point from the
land which applies to Rome, you do | 0:34:43 | 0:34:49 | |
not get a rosette in this election
for being the biggest single party. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
That does not get you anywhere, you
have got to find coalition partners. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:58 | |
If Five Star Movement is the biggest
single party it's an enjoyable | 0:34:58 | 0:35:04 | |
evening for them, but they would
have to find coalition partners to | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
get into government. Thank you James
for the moment. Still with me,, I am | 0:35:07 | 0:35:20 | |
wondering how much patience you
think Italians have while they wait | 0:35:20 | 0:35:27 | |
for government, the talks could go
on for so long. I think some people | 0:35:27 | 0:35:33 | |
are saying also that there might be
re-election, I do not think this is | 0:35:33 | 0:35:38 | |
a likely scenario because that would
be a revelation. Think about the 5 | 0:35:38 | 0:35:47 | |
Star movement arriving first, I
don't think they are happy with the | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
possibility of going for election. I
think then the Leave they will have | 0:35:50 | 0:35:56 | |
to wait until it is done. We will
have to learn to be patient in this | 0:35:56 | 0:36:04 | |
regard. Yes I think she's right,
they have to have some extent of | 0:36:04 | 0:36:09 | |
patients this time. It happened
already in 2013 with the forming of | 0:36:09 | 0:36:18 | |
the government, it's not really news
for Italy, the thing is this time we | 0:36:18 | 0:36:25 | |
don't really know if the first
coalition is going to find other | 0:36:25 | 0:36:29 | |
allies in the other coalition with
the parliament. I think this will be | 0:36:29 | 0:36:35 | |
the biggest? The role of the Five
Star Movement to ally with other | 0:36:35 | 0:36:44 | |
parties if other parties are going
to ally with Five Star Movement. I | 0:36:44 | 0:36:51 | |
think this is a delicate question
because the Five Star Movement has a | 0:36:51 | 0:36:57 | |
big chance to rule the country but
at the same time the one they decide | 0:36:57 | 0:37:00 | |
to go with will determine their fate
I think. Because if the goal with | 0:37:00 | 0:37:09 | |
Northern League, not necessarily the
electorate will be happy with that. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
It would be very interesting how the
Five Star Movement will move. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:18 | |
We are joined by an author and
entrepreneur, thank you for | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
squeezing in under our tent, what
are you making of it? I am not | 0:37:25 | 0:37:30 | |
surprised at all to tell you the
truth, everyone knew already in the | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
palaces these would have been the
numbers especially because they made | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
this electoral law with the purpose
to not let the Five Star Movement | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
win too much so everybody knew it
already. The real disgrace is the | 0:37:41 | 0:37:46 | |
electoral law but to tell you the
truth I am not worried. People | 0:37:46 | 0:37:52 | |
should not be worried because
actually in this Italy I think it's | 0:37:52 | 0:37:54 | |
better to have a coalition
government than any Five Star | 0:37:54 | 0:37:59 | |
Movement full government or a
populous government led by Matteo | 0:37:59 | 0:38:05 | |
Salvini. I am hopeful. At the
beginning they thought less, but now | 0:38:05 | 0:38:17 | |
they think even four eventually, she
is an amazing politician. She did | 0:38:17 | 0:38:23 | |
everything we have now, the divorce,
abortion, all this liberalist, we | 0:38:23 | 0:38:31 | |
had to thank her that so maybe she
could be a good one to rule the | 0:38:31 | 0:38:35 | |
country. I totally agree, I think
our marriage was to put Europe in | 0:38:35 | 0:38:43 | |
the elections, we always complain
that Europe is not in the discussion | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
of the elections, she had a double
merit, the first was also influence | 0:38:47 | 0:38:56 | |
people to talk more about Europe, to
be less shy about it, to be strong | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
on that, like Emmanuel Macron. On
the other hand you could see really | 0:38:59 | 0:39:06 | |
the difference between those who
have a European project in their | 0:39:06 | 0:39:10 | |
minds and have a vision on that and
those who are very, very sceptical | 0:39:10 | 0:39:15 | |
about Europe. What has been said
before is true, the language of the | 0:39:15 | 0:39:21 | |
Northern League has soft and, even
the language of Five Star Movement | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
has softened towards Europe but
let's face it, everybody wants to | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
strong Italy, Europe, but how you go
to Europe, the method you use, the | 0:39:29 | 0:39:36 | |
instrument you use will make the
difference. There you will see a | 0:39:36 | 0:39:42 | |
huge difference between those who
want a European finance minister, | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
meaning the Democratic Party, and
those who absolutely think OK, let's | 0:39:45 | 0:39:52 | |
have a say in Europe but be very
sceptical. I think it's true that | 0:39:52 | 0:40:04 | |
more Europe is interesting, first of
all because if it's going to score | 0:40:04 | 0:40:13 | |
more than 3% it's going to take some
seats away from the Democratic Party | 0:40:13 | 0:40:18 | |
and this will be interesting in the
formation of Parliament. On the | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
other side it true, it puts on the
agenda the European topic, even in | 0:40:21 | 0:40:27 | |
the name which is quite, I'm not
sure about what they can do about | 0:40:27 | 0:40:37 | |
the formation of the government,
this we will have to see again. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:47 | |
Italy has defined a government cope
with some financial obligations in | 0:40:47 | 0:40:50 | |
Europe within this year, within
2018, within the European semester. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:55 | |
So to some regards I think Europe
will be a driver for the formation | 0:40:55 | 0:41:00 | |
of a government but I am not really
sure it's going to have an influence | 0:41:00 | 0:41:06 | |
as with so before with Jean-Claude
Juncker making decorations that are | 0:41:06 | 0:41:11 | |
not appreciated in Italy. Stay with
us, to remind those of you just | 0:41:11 | 0:41:17 | |
joining us, we have got the exit
polls which come out over an hour | 0:41:17 | 0:41:21 | |
ago as the polls closed here in
Italy, what it shows is that no | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
majority for any party, the largest
party now according to the exit | 0:41:26 | 0:41:32 | |
polls is the Five Star Movement with
possibly over 30% of the vote. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:37 | |
That's a remarkable achievement from
a party, it does not even call | 0:41:37 | 0:41:43 | |
itself a party, it is a movement
which came out of nowhere just a few | 0:41:43 | 0:41:47 | |
years ago as an antiestablishment
tide. Let's go to its election event | 0:41:47 | 0:41:52 | |
and talk to my colleague across the
city, how are they reacting? Well we | 0:41:52 | 0:42:02 | |
are still waiting for the leader of
the movement to arrive, Luigi Di | 0:42:02 | 0:42:09 | |
Maio, but the atmosphere is here of
celebration, they have been talking | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
of an INAUDIBLE
This party was not even a party, now | 0:42:12 | 0:42:19 | |
it is Italy's largest political
formation. To talk more about that I | 0:42:19 | 0:42:23 | |
am joined by a journalist, what is
the key of the success of the Five | 0:42:23 | 0:42:34 | |
Star Movement? They give hope to the
people that this country can change. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:39 | |
They identify themselves with the
leaders because the leaders are | 0:42:39 | 0:42:44 | |
normal people like you and me. Luigi
Di Maio was a student five years | 0:42:44 | 0:42:50 | |
ago. Another was a normal person and
everything. The normality is the key | 0:42:50 | 0:43:01 | |
of their success. The fact that this
country can become normal. How | 0:43:01 | 0:43:09 | |
likely do you think it is now that
the president will give Five Star | 0:43:09 | 0:43:17 | |
Movement the mandate to form a
government? They are still under a | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
centre-right coalition but they are
under the largest party in | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
parliament. At the moment they are
the first party in Italian | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
parliament so it will be difficult
but this electoral law gives power | 0:43:29 | 0:43:37 | |
to the coalitions. So the
centre-right coalition is now the | 0:43:37 | 0:43:40 | |
first coalition in Italy. But there
is a problem inside the centre-right | 0:43:40 | 0:43:45 | |
coalition because there is a
challenge between Silvio Berlusconi | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
and Matteo Salvini tonight. It will
be difficult to choose because | 0:43:50 | 0:44:02 | |
otherwise if the Five Star Movement
decides it can join other parties to | 0:44:02 | 0:44:07 | |
have a government like the
constitution says then the mandate | 0:44:07 | 0:44:13 | |
could be given to form a new
government but I think it would | 0:44:13 | 0:44:20 | |
rather be centre-right. Thank you
very much for joining us, we have to | 0:44:20 | 0:44:30 | |
wait and see. I have been talking to
some politicians from the Five Star | 0:44:30 | 0:44:36 | |
Movement here and what they are
telling me is that whoever the Prime | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
Minister designated will be he will
not be able to ignore the fact that | 0:44:39 | 0:44:44 | |
the Five Star Movement tonight is
Italy's largest party in parliament. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
Back to you. Fight back | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
extraordinary, the Five Star
Movement making such waves during | 0:44:57 | 0:44:59 | |
the campaign and it will be
interesting to see how its voice of | 0:44:59 | 0:45:05 | |
opposition will translate into being
a pillar of government as it says it | 0:45:05 | 0:45:09 | |
will be in the next government, that
is what it said since the exit poll | 0:45:09 | 0:45:14 | |
came out. Let's show you a graphic,
we have to be a little bit cautious | 0:45:14 | 0:45:20 | |
with these figures because in
previous elections I think the last | 0:45:20 | 0:45:24 | |
election it was a 5% margin of error
but what it does show is if you put | 0:45:24 | 0:45:28 | |
these into three main blocks, the
centre-right is out in front with up | 0:45:28 | 0:45:34 | |
to 36%, the three parties combining
in that. That's in the lead but | 0:45:34 | 0:45:42 | |
still far short of the 40% needed to
form a government by itself. The | 0:45:42 | 0:45:48 | |
Five Star Movement, that remarkable
result, 29.5 to 32.5% and this is | 0:45:48 | 0:45:56 | |
the governing party's coalition, the
centre-left coalition is trailing. | 0:45:56 | 0:46:07 | |
All in all over 20 parties in this
rather complicated election, we were | 0:46:07 | 0:46:13 | |
talking earlier about the new
election system, it's been | 0:46:13 | 0:46:16 | |
completely untested which makes
everything even more unpredictable | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
because it's a hybrid first past the
post and proportional representation | 0:46:18 | 0:46:27 | |
system so Italy has been a difficult
thing to predict. Final thoughts, | 0:46:27 | 0:46:33 | |
you have found this, this has been
interesting in all sorts of ways, | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
this election. Absolutely
interesting and scary of course but | 0:46:36 | 0:46:41 | |
this is Italy. Either of you
remember but our first Republic and | 0:46:41 | 0:46:45 | |
the first governments were like
this. We have a real proportional | 0:46:45 | 0:46:50 | |
electoral law and we are changing
governments all the time but | 0:46:50 | 0:46:54 | |
actually it was tabled, Italy was
tabled. I know outside Italy people | 0:46:54 | 0:46:58 | |
don't quite understand that. I don't
know, times are made like this. I | 0:46:58 | 0:47:04 | |
also respect a lot people who voted
for Five Star Movement, I did not | 0:47:04 | 0:47:08 | |
because I don't think they are right
for government but I respect them | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
because it means actual politicians
failed and especially Matteo Renzi, | 0:47:11 | 0:47:18 | |
he is a big loser of these
elections. We have to admit that | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
because he called this kamikaze
referendum and you know what I mean? | 0:47:21 | 0:47:28 | |
I must get a final word? I think the
picture is precisely this, we have | 0:47:28 | 0:47:35 | |
to wait until late in the morning. I
think tomorrow and let's see. We are | 0:47:35 | 0:47:42 | |
out of time, thank you all three of
you for being with us in these | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
rather challenging weather
conditions here in Rome. We were | 0:47:45 | 0:47:51 | |
expecting the couple more exit polls
which will become a bit clearer in | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
the coming of hours and in the
middle of the night we should get | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
the definitive | 0:47:58 | 0:47:59 |