04/03/2018 BBC News Special


04/03/2018

Karin Giannone reports live from Rome with election results and analysis.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 04/03/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Hello and welcome to BBC News. We

are going to bring you a special

0:00:210:00:29

programme tonight, to bring you the

very latest on the elections that

0:00:290:00:34

have been going on in Italy. It is a

general election and Italians are

0:00:340:00:39

waiting to find out who will form

their new government. Of course,

0:00:390:00:45

Italy is famous for its coalitions

and this time it is even more

0:00:450:00:49

uncertain than ever, partly because

of the populist groups like a Five

0:00:490:00:53

Star Movement, who are predicted to

do well today, and partly due to

0:00:530:00:59

changes in the whole voting system.

These are pictures of today, Matteo

0:00:590:01:03

Renzi casting his vote. And, of

course, the polls are about to

0:01:030:01:11

close. The former Prime Minister

Silvio Berlusconi has re-emerged as

0:01:110:01:17

a political force, even though he

cannot stand and become Prime

0:01:170:01:21

Minister as yet because of a fraud

charge. He is frame much seen as a

0:01:210:01:27

power. This is Matteo Renzi casting

his vote today. It is expected there

0:01:270:01:34

could again be a coalition. Let's

get the very latest on the

0:01:340:01:40

background to this whole election.

Italians are electing members of

0:01:400:01:48

both Houses of Parliament. 630 in

the lower house of deputies and 315

0:01:480:01:55

in the upper house, the Senate but

at this time the system has been

0:01:550:02:00

tweaked so that seeds of first past

The Post, the candidate with most

0:02:000:02:04

votes in the district wins. The

other ones are chosen by

0:02:040:02:09

proportional representation, based

on the share of the vote nationally.

0:02:090:02:12

This election sees some new faces

and not so new battling it out for

0:02:120:02:19

supremacy. The keeper is likely to

be Silvio Berlusconi. Yes, here's

0:02:190:02:24

back. -- a key player. If fraud

conviction bars him from holding

0:02:240:02:29

office at least until next year. He

is teamed up with two parties on the

0:02:290:02:34

hard right, including La Lega. The

Five Star Movement could gain at the

0:02:340:02:49

expense of Matteo Renzi's ruling

Democratic Party who are trailing in

0:02:490:02:52

the polls. Italian politics is all

about coalitions. Which combination

0:02:520:02:58

could come out on top? One

possibility is a right-wing

0:02:580:03:03

coalition with Fortson Italia and my

league joined by the brothers of

0:03:030:03:12

Italy. The other centre-left party

Free And Equal have refuse the idea

0:03:120:03:21

of a coalition for that there could

be a German star grand coalition

0:03:210:03:26

between centre-left and centre right

foot of it is all very uncertain. --

0:03:260:03:30

a German style coalition between

centre-left and centre right. That

0:03:300:03:41

was an explanation of the background

to the election. Let's get the

0:03:410:03:44

latest now. Katya has been following

the build-up to today's vote. In

0:03:440:03:52

polling stations across Italy today

there was a sense of uncertainty.

0:03:520:03:57

Voters told us they wanted change

but were not sure which political

0:03:570:04:01

party to trust.

TRANSLATION:

Italians are abused and

0:04:010:04:10

frustrated. Logicians need to hear

our boys today.

I am so worried

0:04:100:04:14

about Italy, I said a prayer before

coming to vote. -- our voice today.

0:04:140:04:23

The current government is preparing

for a bruising at the polls.

0:04:230:04:27

Italians say top concern is the

insecure job market, concerned with

0:04:270:04:33

the Euro and mass migration from

Africa. Luigi Di Maio is the leader

0:04:330:04:40

of the Five Star Movement, tipped

tonight to become Italy's largest

0:04:400:04:45

political party. I caught up with

him in Naples before he cast his

0:04:450:04:49

vote.

Traditional politicians have

been telling Italians everything is

0:04:490:04:53

fine when it is not. I want to be

amongst the people.

The political

0:04:530:05:00

system here favours coalitions. His

controversial party could be left

0:05:000:05:03

out in the cold. Meaning this a

million face could be kingmaker

0:05:030:05:10

instead. Naples and the South of

Italy will swing today's vote.

0:05:100:05:17

Silvio Berlusconi campaigned here

this weekend on behalf of a

0:05:170:05:21

right-wing coalition peppered with

populists, like this rising star

0:05:210:05:27

anti-immigration politician voting

today in Milan. So, what does this

0:05:270:05:34

rather chaotic political picture

mean for Italy and Europe? After all

0:05:340:05:39

this is the Eurozone's third largest

economy. Confusion is went

0:05:390:05:46

essentially Italian. Rascals is used

to it, the financial markets seemed

0:05:460:05:54

prepared for it. -- Brussels they

believe a coalition government with

0:05:540:05:58

watered-down populist policies on

offer. How does that help Italians

0:05:580:06:02

get to grips with the problems?

There is a civilian protest party in

0:06:020:06:08

Naples.

These days, Italy's Leticia

's blame everything on immigration

0:06:080:06:13

but that is a life of the youth

unemployment and precarious

0:06:130:06:17

contracts are our problem. That is

why Italians feel badly.

Votes now

0:06:170:06:24

passed, all Italians can do is wait.

Today's election will be followed by

0:06:240:06:30

weeks of political horse trading.

Change does not come fast in Italy.

0:06:300:06:36

We are indeed getting details of the

first projections from the Italian

0:06:360:06:40

general election. Local media is

predicting now be no overall

0:06:400:06:45

majority in the new parliament. One

report saying the Five Star Movement

0:06:450:06:49

will be the largest single party.

Let us get more now live from Rome.

0:06:490:06:59

Welcome to Rome. Absolute deluge

cheer. The polls have just closed

0:06:590:07:05

but as the polls closed, the first

exit polls came out. We had to treat

0:07:050:07:11

them with caution. There is a

significant margin of error. You

0:07:110:07:16

outlined the main headlines. The

Five Star Movement is coming out by

0:07:160:07:20

far the largest single party. The

exit poll also pointing to a hung

0:07:200:07:27

parliament, no block or single party

has managed to secure the necessary

0:07:270:07:32

majority. What we would expect now

is a process of discussions and

0:07:320:07:39

talks for the forming of a coalition

government. Let's talk to the

0:07:390:07:47

director of the centre of

formulations and an editor, Antonio.

0:07:470:07:53

What does this mean in practice? In

practice, it is not going to be

0:07:530:07:58

really different from what we have

been seeing in the last weeks with

0:07:580:08:02

the previous polls. Actually, the

big difference is, as you said, the

0:08:020:08:09

Five Star Movement is going to be

the first party but it is going to

0:08:090:08:13

be over the 30% ratio, so it is

quite interesting. The outcome,

0:08:130:08:18

according to these numbers and if

they will stay the same until

0:08:180:08:21

tomorrow morning, the outcome is

almost the same we don't have a

0:08:210:08:26

majority, so you will start

mediation. We will be having

0:08:260:08:29

negotiations. The most interesting

thing is that Forza Italia, and La

0:08:290:08:40

Lega, they are on the same level, so

we will see.

We're looking at

0:08:400:08:46

pictures of the Five Star Movement

election event. This is a really

0:08:460:08:49

significant achievement. They were a

force that did not exist a few years

0:08:490:08:56

ago.

Absolutely right foot if this

is confirmed it means that almost

0:08:560:09:00

one out of three people in Italy

voted for the Five Star Movement.

0:09:000:09:05

Definitely. When we started the

negotiations, because nobody has

0:09:050:09:10

reached the 40% threshold that is

required by this law in order to

0:09:100:09:15

rule the country, I think the head

of state will have to start with the

0:09:150:09:20

Five Star Movement.

No doubt about

that. It would be very strange if a

0:09:200:09:24

party with a far smaller share of

the vote were allowed to start to

0:09:240:09:31

try forming a government.

We cannot

ignore it. It is such a bold

0:09:310:09:36

statement by the Italians. No doubt

about that. As we said before, there

0:09:360:09:41

is another indication, I think,

which is particularly interesting.

0:09:410:09:45

If this is confirmed, and if Matteo

silvery ani -- Salvini is ahead, if

0:09:450:09:59

it is confirmed this is the end of

Silvio Boase Coney's leadership in

0:09:590:10:04

the centre right and the North

league will have a strong say in

0:10:040:10:09

that coalition.

-- Silvio

Berlusconi. What difference do think

0:10:090:10:14

the new electoral system will have

made question papers looked at being

0:10:140:10:20

something to keep the Five Star

Movement down.

We need to consider

0:10:200:10:24

that these figures can change very

much during the night. This

0:10:240:10:28

electoral system is very difficult

in this scheme. First the

0:10:280:10:38

proportional vote and then the first

past The Post votes. It is difficult

0:10:380:10:46

now. It is up to the president of

the Republic to decide how to start

0:10:460:10:52

this negotiation. The first

milestone we have to consider is

0:10:520:10:56

that, on the 23rd of March, the

Senate and the chamber will appoint

0:10:560:11:02

President. We will see if we have a

kind of majority balance between the

0:11:020:11:07

groups and then we can understand

how the negotiation will go.

The

0:11:070:11:13

left, the centre-left coalition, is

really trailing 20% to 23%,

0:11:130:11:21

according to the X8 poll.

I am just

looking at the Democratic Party now.

0:11:210:11:29

-- the X8 poll. It is around 23%,

not a huge score. I would also put

0:11:290:11:38

in question the leadership of the

current secretary. Altogether...

0:11:380:11:45

Matteo Renzi, the former Prime

Minister.

The coalition together,

0:11:450:11:51

they will have to start compromising

and accepting conditions proposed by

0:11:510:11:55

others.

Do we have any idea what the

main, or the most likely,

0:11:550:12:05

possibilities for a coalition

combination might be? At the moment

0:12:050:12:09

you could just take your pick.

Exactly. It is like that you can

0:12:090:12:17

take any party. Trying to find if

you can reach a majority. Actually,

0:12:170:12:22

I think it is too soon to go like

that. In the previous days there

0:12:220:12:28

have been talks about negotiation

between the Democratic Party and the

0:12:280:12:34

Forza Italia. It appears to be on

the model of the broad coalition,

0:12:340:12:38

like in Germany, for example. Then

we start to think about the Five

0:12:380:12:44

Star Movement with the Northern

League.

That would be the populist

0:12:440:12:49

apocalypse that some people were

scared of.

Populist, exactly will

0:12:490:12:58

stop

How many days, weeks and months

to rethink... It is hard to guess,

0:12:580:13:04

isn't it? Will it be as long as

Germany? Will we see the same thing

0:13:040:13:12

in Italy?

We have to wait at least

until three o'clock in the morning,

0:13:120:13:19

if not much longer, maybe six, seven

o'clock, to have secured data that

0:13:190:13:24

we can say something will stop in

any case you can have any kind of

0:13:240:13:30

scenario and we will see a period of

speculation and negotiations. The

0:13:300:13:37

most Eurosceptic scenario of course

will be the Five Star Movement

0:13:370:13:41

together with the North league. That

would be the scariest one of those

0:13:410:13:45

who believed in the European

project. As we were mentioning

0:13:450:13:51

before, there have been rumours of

negotiations between the Democratic

0:13:510:13:55

Party and Silvio Berlusconi's is a

Italia. But we have to see the

0:13:550:14:02

numbers.

How much caution should we

have? -- Forza Italia.

A lot of

0:14:020:14:10

caution. She was saying until three

in the morning, maybe later, we do

0:14:100:14:17

not know. We are not secure about

what we are seeing. It is really

0:14:170:14:24

difficult to make a call at this

moment, especially if there is a gap

0:14:240:14:29

between the weakest part and the

strongest one. I want to come back

0:14:290:14:35

to the other question. You ask how

long it will take will stop at least

0:14:350:14:44

a month before the parliament has

selected its president and then we

0:14:440:14:50

start the negotiation.

The new MPs,

the new government were they all

0:14:500:14:54

have to sit down in the building

behind us and in the Senate before

0:14:540:14:58

the President can actually give a

mandate to try to form a coalition

0:14:580:15:02

to the chosen party?

Exactly. It

will be like that. You'll be April

0:15:020:15:09

at least we will see within two

months if we can have a government.

0:15:090:15:15

-- it will be April.

Two months.

Can

we guess? I don't really know. Let's

0:15:150:15:25

see what happens.

I am wondering

about your thoughts about the

0:15:250:15:30

campaign and how it has compare the

previous election campaigns fought

0:15:300:15:34

at the last general election was in

2013. Has this seemed more bitter

0:15:340:15:41

because of the migrant crisis which

has reared since the last election?

0:15:410:15:46

It has. It has been a strange

campaign in my opinion. We have seen

0:15:460:15:52

so many different items on the

agenda. Maybe sometimes, not really

0:15:520:16:00

going into details, but I think this

is the same for all electoral

0:16:000:16:06

campaigns. This time I think the

real difference was the fact that at

0:16:060:16:12

least one political party with the

news at the end of the campaign with

0:16:120:16:18

the thing about presentation and the

Five Star Movement and the list of

0:16:180:16:24

ministers. This was seen from

outside is something really new and

0:16:240:16:28

interesting, maybe unusual according

to this parliament but it was

0:16:280:16:35

different. Interesting to see if it

has an impact on the outcome of the

0:16:350:16:40

vote.

Stay with us. We will be

speaking a lot more. We are here in

0:16:400:16:48

Rome, the capital. There is a

Northern powerhouse in Milan, of

0:16:480:16:54

course. James Reynolds is there. How

are things looking?

People here are

0:16:540:17:00

waiting to see whether or not the

exit polls we confirmed, and really

0:17:000:17:07

the league party, formerly known as

the Northern League, whether or not

0:17:070:17:11

it really has made as a national

force, capable of having an

0:17:110:17:17

influential say in the Government.

The party founded here in 1991 was

0:17:170:17:22

the secessionist party. It wanted to

leave Italy. Now it wants to lead

0:17:220:17:29

the country. It will wait to see

whether or not its support holds up

0:17:290:17:36

when the real results come in.

How

great, James, are the economic

0:17:360:17:44

differences between North and South

in Italy?

In some ways, they are two

0:17:440:17:51

different countries, bolted together

by the geography of Italy. When you

0:17:510:17:57

look around Milan, and you take the

train six hours to the south and you

0:17:570:18:01

look around the south, you realise

there is a huge golf in the GDP in

0:18:010:18:06

the standard of living. Bearing in

mind that was the fuel for the

0:18:060:18:10

Northern League when it was a

regional secessionist party. It

0:18:100:18:15

said, why should we have to

subsidise the South? Now it wants to

0:18:150:18:20

lead the South. It has brought in a

new enemy, migrants, illegal

0:18:200:18:26

migrants. I put that to the leader

of the party week or so ago. He

0:18:260:18:32

corrected me when I said migrants.

He wants to be a national voice. The

0:18:320:18:38

party has to reconcile the fact that

for many years the rhetoric was

0:18:380:18:42

aimed against the South making it

difficult for Southerners to vote

0:18:420:18:45

for a party which has had its

loudest voice in the North will stop

0:18:450:18:51

James, you have been travelling the

country, as you mentioned was

0:18:510:18:54

speaking to all sorts of keep

layers.

How has the election

0:18:540:18:58

campaign fell to you?

-- players.

Angry and divisive. A lot of

0:18:580:19:06

Italians when they look back on it

will look back at one town to be

0:19:060:19:13

symbolic of the election. In January

there was a story about the murder

0:19:130:19:17

of a young Italian woman. Italian

authorities have been looking at a

0:19:170:19:24

migrants as a possible suspect.

Shortly after that and Italian far

0:19:240:19:30

right sympathiser shot at six

migrants in that town. It came to

0:19:300:19:37

symbolise a very bitter and very

divisive campaign.

Thank you very

0:19:370:19:43

much. James Reynolds reporting live

from Milan. Back here in Rome, I am

0:19:430:19:52

joined by someone from force Italia,

the party of the centre-right in the

0:19:520:19:59

coalition -- Forza Italia. Thank you

for joining us. How disappointed are

0:19:590:20:04

you with the exit poll results so

far?

I am waiting for the final

0:20:040:20:08

results. It is more or less the

intention of the voting but I'm

0:20:080:20:15

waiting for the final results. I am

happy because now my organisation is

0:20:150:20:22

in last position.

We are waiting for

that. Just looking at the Forza

0:20:220:20:34

Italia figures, 12.5% to 15% at the

same as the coalition partners to

0:20:340:20:43

the right of view. Is this the end

of Silvio Berlusconi?

Absolutely

0:20:430:20:48

not. We will check at the end but

the result is good for us. We also

0:20:480:20:57

have the original campaign in

Lombardi and in Lazio. It is

0:20:570:21:04

important, the Forza Italia results

in this region. It is important to

0:21:040:21:08

understand what has happened

tomorrow. At the moment, nobody is

0:21:080:21:15

able to organise and to create a

government.

If you have your

0:21:150:21:19

coalition partners on the same or

greater share of your block vote,

0:21:190:21:25

then your party, there will be a

power struggle surely. Mateas

0:21:250:21:31

Salvini surely wants to be in a

position of being in charge.

Pay

0:21:310:21:37

attention. Jawing his campaign, he

made it clear he didn't and doesn't

0:21:370:21:42

want to go out to Europe and, about

this argument, we have the same

0:21:420:21:50

line. We need to have ten clear

points in the programme. This is the

0:21:500:22:00

rule. He seems to have softened his

line on Europe a little. In the past

0:22:000:22:05

he said the Euro was a crime against

humanity. No, no. I know very well

0:22:050:22:13

the value. If you check the last

declaration of Mateas Salvini --

0:22:130:22:21

Mateas Salvini, you know he will

want to stay in Europe. He has said

0:22:210:22:27

things like Mussolini obtained great

things for Italy. Mussolini is one

0:22:270:22:35

of my colleagues. I think Benito may

have been the person he was talking

0:22:350:22:42

about. I think the past is the past

and the present is the present. We

0:22:420:22:47

would like to discuss about jobs,

about the young unemployment and

0:22:470:22:53

about the real problem that we have,

not about the past. The past is

0:22:530:22:57

closed for us. If you consider the

period of Mussolini, the period of

0:22:570:23:03

the Communists, it is another era.

Is it time for a big change in Forza

0:23:030:23:09

Italia question that we have seen

Silvio Berlusconi trying to reinvent

0:23:090:23:13

himself, trying to win the Hearts of

the Italians who see him as a safe

0:23:130:23:18

pair of hands.

Some words and ideas,

that are not Italian but European

0:23:180:23:32

and American newspapers. Not only

say about other skinny before the

0:23:320:23:35

election. We are happy that Silvio

Boesky only is present. --

0:23:350:23:50

Berlusconi. Also in the UK or in

America, they declared that

0:23:500:23:57

Berlusconi is the solution of this

problem.

I think it is right. Thank

0:23:570:24:04

you very much. We shall see what

happens. Let's move to the new force

0:24:040:24:10

in Italian politics that we have

been hearing so much about, the Five

0:24:100:24:16

Star Movement, which has really done

incredibly well, according to the

0:24:160:24:20

exit polls over 30% of the vote. My

colleague is at the Five Star

0:24:200:24:26

Movement election event, just across

town from where we are. Just tell us

0:24:260:24:29

what the atmosphere is like.

Well,

the atmosphere here is both of

0:24:290:24:37

celebration and great expectation.

That is because everyone is waiting

0:24:370:24:41

to see how accurate the exit polls

really will be. If the margin

0:24:410:24:46

between the centre-right coalition

is really narrow, the president will

0:24:460:24:52

have to choose the Five Star

Movement to give them the mandate to

0:24:520:24:58

form a government. This is an

historic result. We are talking of

0:24:580:25:02

the party that ten years ago did not

exist. It started as a protest

0:25:020:25:08

movement, a movement against

political corruption, efficiencies

0:25:080:25:12

of the Public Administration. Ten

years later it is confirming itself

0:25:120:25:16

as the first largest party in the

Italian parliament. It is a great

0:25:160:25:21

result, undoubtedly.

Many people

wonder what exactly does the Five

0:25:210:25:29

Star Movement stand for? You have

told us what they often say they are

0:25:290:25:33

against the how they want to change

things, but are they able to be

0:25:330:25:38

defined by left, right or centre or

none of the above?

Well, that is the

0:25:380:25:46

novelty of the Five Star Movement.

When they presented themselves as a

0:25:460:25:51

party, they said they were neither

right nor left wing. That is

0:25:510:25:57

something of the past. The Five Star

Movement looks at the democracy.

0:25:570:26:01

They think that the web and intranet

is the new way to give a voice to

0:26:010:26:07

all voters and they are looking at

good things for Italy and the

0:26:070:26:16

interests of the country. Their

candidates are people who do not

0:26:160:26:20

have political experience. They say,

we are honest people and that should

0:26:200:26:24

be enough as to lead the country. It

is difficult to define what the Five

0:26:240:26:29

Star Movement stands for. Many of

their policies are agreed online.

0:26:290:26:35

They just published their proposals

and people can vote what they prefer

0:26:350:26:39

to do and that is how they define

their political agenda will stop

0:26:390:26:45

even on issues like immigration or

the European Union, the Five Star

0:26:450:26:49

Movement listens to what people

want. That is also part of the

0:26:490:26:53

reason why they have been so

successful. They really are

0:26:530:26:57

listening to what voters want. For

the good side and the bad things as

0:26:570:27:03

well.

Thank you very much for the

moment. Let's bring in the BBC put

0:27:030:27:15

back Europe editor, who is with me

and has been following things

0:27:150:27:19

closely. You have been in Naples.

What do you do have from the figures

0:27:190:27:24

we have at the moment of the scene?

Two main ideas. What a slap in the

0:27:240:27:31

face for the ruling centre-right.

They say they have started to

0:27:310:27:35

implement reforms and that the

Italian economy after the double-dip

0:27:350:27:39

recession is slowly getting on its

feet again. Voters were not with

0:27:390:27:44

them today. He were they with? The

Five Star Movement. The young

0:27:440:27:51

upstart party looks to be Italy's

largest party. It is not big enough

0:27:510:27:55

to govern on its own. There will be

weeks now of horse trading ahead and

0:27:550:28:01

the Five Star Movement may not make

it into government. The fact that in

0:28:010:28:05

the lower and upper house of

parliament, the upper house of

0:28:050:28:09

parliament is key. The age you can

vote is from 25 upwards. The Five

0:28:090:28:14

Star Movement has been seen as

something for the young and ignorant

0:28:140:28:19

he wants something exciting. If the

over 25 voted today, it means they

0:28:190:28:25

are onto something and it is a very

big nose thumb to the traditional

0:28:250:28:30

parties in Italy. The kind of upsets

we have seen from Germany to Denmark

0:28:300:28:34

to Sweden. There is a movement in

politics and things are changing. In

0:28:340:28:40

Italy things will not change fast

enough.

The Five Star Movement have

0:28:400:28:45

said they would be a pillar of the

next government. How will Europe be

0:28:450:28:51

looking at this?

It is interesting.

From a European perspective, it is

0:28:510:28:55

not long ago that European leaders

pretty much forced out Silvio

0:28:550:29:00

Berlusconi. This was at the height

of the problems in Italy for W is

0:29:000:29:04

seen as a laughing stock because he

was surrounded by scandal and was

0:29:040:29:09

convicted of tax fraud that means he

cannot stand for Parliament. His

0:29:090:29:15

party could be a kingmaker and

surrounded by populist figures, the

0:29:150:29:19

Five Star Movement on the one side

and La Lega on the other. Europe

0:29:190:29:24

looks to Sylvia both go only as an

elder statesman and a calming

0:29:240:29:29

figure. -- Silvio Berlusconi. It

shows what a state of turmoil

0:29:290:29:35

Italian politics is in. Turmoil

tonight. I was in Milan before,

0:29:350:29:41

Naples, and now in Rome for the many

feel they are cynical. After all the

0:29:410:29:45

horse trading, whether things really

will change.

You have been all over

0:29:450:29:52

the country, as you have mentioned.

How much has the ideology of the far

0:29:520:29:58

right filtered into the mainstream

in people's use, particularly with

0:29:580:30:05

immigration?

The anti-immigration

rhetoric was a bandwagon that most

0:30:050:30:07

parties jumped on in the election

campaign. It was divisive and people

0:30:070:30:12

had to think, what can we use to get

extra votes? It was a cheap trick.

0:30:120:30:18

For many Italians, not at all, it is

something they are worried about.

0:30:180:30:25

Many African migrants have come by

vote to Italy. Most of them wanted

0:30:250:30:27

to go north into the rest of Europe.

They got stuck in Italy and even

0:30:270:30:33

though the amount of non-Italians

living in Italy is only around 10%,

0:30:330:30:37

in voter polls they think it is

three to four times more than that

0:30:370:30:42

and they feel threatened by

globalisation, unemployment and

0:30:420:30:47

migration as well. I think you can

see a European theme. The parties at

0:30:470:30:52

the centre, like Berlusconi pulse

like party are stealing rhetoric

0:30:520:30:57

from the right because they know it

is a vote winner, anti-immigration,

0:30:570:31:02

also things like security is high as

well.

You mentioned the left. Where

0:31:020:31:08

are they? The centre-left, we have

Matteo Renzi, the former Prime

0:31:080:31:13

Minister put in charge but they have

taken a beating.

0:31:130:31:21

Chris Jericho was supposed to

0:31:210:31:22

with the centre-left, it is a

European team, where is the centre

0:31:320:31:36

left across Europe? Today they

agreed to join a coalition with

0:31:360:31:39

Angela Merkel in Germany but on the

back of a performance that was its

0:31:390:31:43

worst ever in modern German history.

I think across Europe waters are

0:31:430:31:49

punishing the centre-left for the

economic crisis. There are

0:31:490:31:52

traditional base of workers saw the

centre-left

0:31:520:31:55

traditional base of workers saw the

centre-left propping up government

0:31:550:31:56

decisions to bail out the banks

before the people and that is

0:31:560:32:00

something voters will not forgive

them for and I think it's a mixture

0:32:000:32:03

of reasons here in Italy but that

will be in the next night.

What can

0:32:030:32:08

we expect now? Over the forthcoming

hours we will get exit polls

0:32:080:32:12

becoming slightly clearer and when

is the definitive result of what is

0:32:120:32:16

not very definitive at all in the

election going to be with us?

We can

0:32:160:32:21

do an Italian gesture here, who

knows? This is Italian politics. We

0:32:210:32:26

don't know what kind of horse

trading is going to go ahead. Silvio

0:32:260:32:30

Berlusconi will try to push for his

right-wing coalition and I take

0:32:300:32:32

issue with it being cold centre

right because it's some very far

0:32:320:32:36

right elements in the. He's going to

try to go for the mathematics of

0:32:360:32:41

that one. Tonight we are in the

lower house of parliament but in

0:32:410:32:45

buildings all over Italy politicians

will be huddled together as Italians

0:32:450:32:49

will be in front of their TV

screens, worrying and wondering

0:32:490:32:53

about the mathematics. You will pull

it off and who is going to lead the

0:32:530:32:57

next time government? Right now we

cannot predict but it will be hard

0:32:570:33:02

for the new biggest party to make

coalition friends in government. It

0:33:020:33:08

will be interesting to watch.

We

talked about immigration being such

0:33:080:33:15

a important thing, and unemployment.

It's the same problem as brands,

0:33:150:33:25

youth unemployment, Marine Le Pen

did very well, youth unemployment is

0:33:250:33:29

chronic in Italy particularly in the

south, in parts of Sicily it's up to

0:33:290:33:35

50%, Italy wide it can be 30%. This

is unacceptable for young people and

0:33:350:33:40

their parents to tolerate. So that

is the kind of picture we are

0:33:400:33:43

seeing.

Thank you very much. Let's

go back to Milan. James, talking to

0:33:430:33:53

summon the people in Rome, I often

got the same answer, complete and

0:33:530:33:59

utter exhaustion with the

politicians in charge. A lot of

0:33:590:34:02

people telling me today they were

not going to bother voting, how is

0:34:020:34:05

the situation up there?

Here the

funny thing, people say that but

0:34:050:34:12

then turn out in Italy is usually

reasonably high. In other words

0:34:120:34:17

people grumble but they grumble on

the way by and large to the Polling

0:34:170:34:22

Station. Older people tend to come

out and vote more than younger

0:34:220:34:25

people. Silvio Berlusconi knows

that, he knows older people watch TV

0:34:250:34:31

which is why a lot of his campaign

was based on TV, hoping for a strong

0:34:310:34:36

turnout amongst older voters to try

to counteract as you have been

0:34:360:34:40

discussing the potentially strong

showing of the 5-star movement among

0:34:400:34:43

young people. One point from the

land which applies to Rome, you do

0:34:430:34:49

not get a rosette in this election

for being the biggest single party.

0:34:490:34:53

That does not get you anywhere, you

have got to find coalition partners.

0:34:530:34:58

If Five Star Movement is the biggest

single party it's an enjoyable

0:34:580:35:04

evening for them, but they would

have to find coalition partners to

0:35:040:35:07

get into government.

Thank you James

for the moment. Still with me,, I am

0:35:070:35:20

wondering how much patience you

think Italians have while they wait

0:35:200:35:27

for government, the talks could go

on for so long.

I think some people

0:35:270:35:33

are saying also that there might be

re-election, I do not think this is

0:35:330:35:38

a likely scenario because that would

be a revelation. Think about the 5

0:35:380:35:47

Star movement arriving first, I

don't think they are happy with the

0:35:470:35:50

possibility of going for election. I

think then the Leave they will have

0:35:500:35:56

to wait until it is done. We will

have to learn to be patient in this

0:35:560:36:04

regard.

Yes I think she's right,

they have to have some extent of

0:36:040:36:09

patients this time. It happened

already in 2013 with the forming of

0:36:090:36:18

the government, it's not really news

for Italy, the thing is this time we

0:36:180:36:25

don't really know if the first

coalition is going to find other

0:36:250:36:29

allies in the other coalition with

the parliament. I think this will be

0:36:290:36:35

the biggest? The role of the Five

Star Movement to ally with other

0:36:350:36:44

parties if other parties are going

to ally with Five Star Movement.

I

0:36:440:36:51

think this is a delicate question

because the Five Star Movement has a

0:36:510:36:57

big chance to rule the country but

at the same time the one they decide

0:36:570:37:00

to go with will determine their fate

I think. Because if the goal with

0:37:000:37:09

Northern League, not necessarily the

electorate will be happy with that.

0:37:090:37:12

It would be very interesting how the

Five Star Movement will move.

0:37:120:37:18

We are joined by an author and

entrepreneur, thank you for

0:37:220:37:25

squeezing in under our tent, what

are you making of it?

I am not

0:37:250:37:30

surprised at all to tell you the

truth, everyone knew already in the

0:37:300:37:33

palaces these would have been the

numbers especially because they made

0:37:330:37:38

this electoral law with the purpose

to not let the Five Star Movement

0:37:380:37:41

win too much so everybody knew it

already. The real disgrace is the

0:37:410:37:46

electoral law but to tell you the

truth I am not worried. People

0:37:460:37:52

should not be worried because

actually in this Italy I think it's

0:37:520:37:54

better to have a coalition

government than any Five Star

0:37:540:37:59

Movement full government or a

populous government led by Matteo

0:37:590:38:05

Salvini. I am hopeful. At the

beginning they thought less, but now

0:38:050:38:17

they think even four eventually, she

is an amazing politician. She did

0:38:170:38:23

everything we have now, the divorce,

abortion, all this liberalist, we

0:38:230:38:31

had to thank her that so maybe she

could be a good one to rule the

0:38:310:38:35

country.

I totally agree, I think

our marriage was to put Europe in

0:38:350:38:43

the elections, we always complain

that Europe is not in the discussion

0:38:430:38:47

of the elections, she had a double

merit, the first was also influence

0:38:470:38:56

people to talk more about Europe, to

be less shy about it, to be strong

0:38:560:38:59

on that, like Emmanuel Macron. On

the other hand you could see really

0:38:590:39:06

the difference between those who

have a European project in their

0:39:060:39:10

minds and have a vision on that and

those who are very, very sceptical

0:39:100:39:15

about Europe. What has been said

before is true, the language of the

0:39:150:39:21

Northern League has soft and, even

the language of Five Star Movement

0:39:210:39:25

has softened towards Europe but

let's face it, everybody wants to

0:39:250:39:29

strong Italy, Europe, but how you go

to Europe, the method you use, the

0:39:290:39:36

instrument you use will make the

difference. There you will see a

0:39:360:39:42

huge difference between those who

want a European finance minister,

0:39:420:39:45

meaning the Democratic Party, and

those who absolutely think OK, let's

0:39:450:39:52

have a say in Europe but be very

sceptical.

I think it's true that

0:39:520:40:04

more Europe is interesting, first of

all because if it's going to score

0:40:040:40:13

more than 3% it's going to take some

seats away from the Democratic Party

0:40:130:40:18

and this will be interesting in the

formation of Parliament. On the

0:40:180:40:21

other side it true, it puts on the

agenda the European topic, even in

0:40:210:40:27

the name which is quite, I'm not

sure about what they can do about

0:40:270:40:37

the formation of the government,

this we will have to see again.

0:40:370:40:47

Italy has defined a government cope

with some financial obligations in

0:40:470:40:50

Europe within this year, within

2018, within the European semester.

0:40:500:40:55

So to some regards I think Europe

will be a driver for the formation

0:40:550:41:00

of a government but I am not really

sure it's going to have an influence

0:41:000:41:06

as with so before with Jean-Claude

Juncker making decorations that are

0:41:060:41:11

not appreciated in Italy.

Stay with

us, to remind those of you just

0:41:110:41:17

joining us, we have got the exit

polls which come out over an hour

0:41:170:41:21

ago as the polls closed here in

Italy, what it shows is that no

0:41:210:41:26

majority for any party, the largest

party now according to the exit

0:41:260:41:32

polls is the Five Star Movement with

possibly over 30% of the vote.

0:41:320:41:37

That's a remarkable achievement from

a party, it does not even call

0:41:370:41:43

itself a party, it is a movement

which came out of nowhere just a few

0:41:430:41:47

years ago as an antiestablishment

tide. Let's go to its election event

0:41:470:41:52

and talk to my colleague across the

city, how are they reacting?

Well we

0:41:520:42:02

are still waiting for the leader of

the movement to arrive, Luigi Di

0:42:020:42:09

Maio, but the atmosphere is here of

celebration, they have been talking

0:42:090:42:12

of an

INAUDIBLE

This party was not even a party, now

0:42:120:42:19

it is Italy's largest political

formation. To talk more about that I

0:42:190:42:23

am joined by a journalist, what is

the key of the success of the Five

0:42:230:42:34

Star Movement?

They give hope to the

people that this country can change.

0:42:340:42:39

They identify themselves with the

leaders because the leaders are

0:42:390:42:44

normal people like you and me. Luigi

Di Maio was a student five years

0:42:440:42:50

ago. Another was a normal person and

everything. The normality is the key

0:42:500:43:01

of their success. The fact that this

country can become normal.

How

0:43:010:43:09

likely do you think it is now that

the president will give Five Star

0:43:090:43:17

Movement the mandate to form a

government? They are still under a

0:43:170:43:21

centre-right coalition but they are

under the largest party in

0:43:210:43:25

parliament.

At the moment they are

the first party in Italian

0:43:250:43:29

parliament so it will be difficult

but this electoral law gives power

0:43:290:43:37

to the coalitions. So the

centre-right coalition is now the

0:43:370:43:40

first coalition in Italy. But there

is a problem inside the centre-right

0:43:400:43:45

coalition because there is a

challenge between Silvio Berlusconi

0:43:450:43:50

and Matteo Salvini tonight. It will

be difficult to choose because

0:43:500:44:02

otherwise if the Five Star Movement

decides it can join other parties to

0:44:020:44:07

have a government like the

constitution says then the mandate

0:44:070:44:13

could be given to form a new

government but I think it would

0:44:130:44:20

rather be centre-right.

Thank you

very much for joining us, we have to

0:44:200:44:30

wait and see. I have been talking to

some politicians from the Five Star

0:44:300:44:36

Movement here and what they are

telling me is that whoever the Prime

0:44:360:44:39

Minister designated will be he will

not be able to ignore the fact that

0:44:390:44:44

the Five Star Movement tonight is

Italy's largest party in parliament.

0:44:440:44:48

Back to you. Fight back

0:44:480:44:51

extraordinary, the Five Star

Movement making such waves during

0:44:570:44:59

the campaign and it will be

interesting to see how its voice of

0:44:590:45:05

opposition will translate into being

a pillar of government as it says it

0:45:050:45:09

will be in the next government, that

is what it said since the exit poll

0:45:090:45:14

came out. Let's show you a graphic,

we have to be a little bit cautious

0:45:140:45:20

with these figures because in

previous elections I think the last

0:45:200:45:24

election it was a 5% margin of error

but what it does show is if you put

0:45:240:45:28

these into three main blocks, the

centre-right is out in front with up

0:45:280:45:34

to 36%, the three parties combining

in that. That's in the lead but

0:45:340:45:42

still far short of the 40% needed to

form a government by itself. The

0:45:420:45:48

Five Star Movement, that remarkable

result, 29.5 to 32.5% and this is

0:45:480:45:56

the governing party's coalition, the

centre-left coalition is trailing.

0:45:560:46:07

All in all over 20 parties in this

rather complicated election, we were

0:46:070:46:13

talking earlier about the new

election system, it's been

0:46:130:46:16

completely untested which makes

everything even more unpredictable

0:46:160:46:18

because it's a hybrid first past the

post and proportional representation

0:46:180:46:27

system so Italy has been a difficult

thing to predict. Final thoughts,

0:46:270:46:33

you have found this, this has been

interesting in all sorts of ways,

0:46:330:46:36

this election.

Absolutely

interesting and scary of course but

0:46:360:46:41

this is Italy. Either of you

remember but our first Republic and

0:46:410:46:45

the first governments were like

this. We have a real proportional

0:46:450:46:50

electoral law and we are changing

governments all the time but

0:46:500:46:54

actually it was tabled, Italy was

tabled. I know outside Italy people

0:46:540:46:58

don't quite understand that. I don't

know, times are made like this. I

0:46:580:47:04

also respect a lot people who voted

for Five Star Movement, I did not

0:47:040:47:08

because I don't think they are right

for government but I respect them

0:47:080:47:11

because it means actual politicians

failed and especially Matteo Renzi,

0:47:110:47:18

he is a big loser of these

elections. We have to admit that

0:47:180:47:21

because he called this kamikaze

referendum and you know what I mean?

0:47:210:47:28

I must get a final word?

I think the

picture is precisely this, we have

0:47:280:47:35

to wait until late in the morning. I

think tomorrow and let's see.

We are

0:47:350:47:42

out of time, thank you all three of

you for being with us in these

0:47:420:47:45

rather challenging weather

conditions here in Rome. We were

0:47:450:47:51

expecting the couple more exit polls

which will become a bit clearer in

0:47:510:47:54

the coming of hours and in the

middle of the night we should get

0:47:540:47:58

the definitive

0:47:580:47:59

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS