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This programme contains scenes which some viewers | 0:00:02 | 0:00:07 | |
may find upsetting. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:14 | |
It is our national game, an obsession. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
And the dream of millions of kids is to make it in the sport, | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
just like their heroes. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
But since last November, football has been in crisis. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:31 | |
Hundreds of young people might have suffered from historical sexual | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
abuse in the world of football. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
More men come forward to say they were assaulted as children. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
The Scottish Football Association have met Police Scotland. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
Police say they've received 109 referrals of cases | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
of child sexual abuse. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
Police forces say around 350 people have now come forward. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:52 | |
The abuse could be on the scale of the Jimmy Savile scandal. | 0:00:52 | 0:01:02 | |
Did you have any idea what was happening to you? | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
At that age I hadn't a clue what was going on. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:09 | |
Roughly, do you know how many times this happened? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
Oh, time after time after time. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
Tonight, BBC Scotland's investigations unit uncovers | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
new evidence about child sex abuse in football. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:23 | |
He said well, you can't ever discuss this with anybody. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
I'm telling you as a pal in confidence. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
And I've held that confidence until recently. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:34 | |
The men said to have abused boys in their care for years - | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
moving from club to club, and child to child. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:48 | |
And we reveal the untold story of the most notorious sex abuse case | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
in the history of Scottish football. | 0:01:51 | 0:02:01 | |
Football ? the beautiful game. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
But for the last six months, BBC Scotland | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
has been investigating a hidden, darker, side. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:15 | |
We've uncovered new testimony that lays bare the scale of allegations | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
of sexual abuse against children - boys who just wanted | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
to play football. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
None of the former players you'll hear from has | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
ever spoken out before, so tonight, for the first time, | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
we give them a voice. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:33 | |
In a quiet corner of south-west Edinburgh sits a piece | 0:02:33 | 0:02:40 | |
of football history, the base of Hutchison Vale FC. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
It might not look like much, but for decades, this clubhouse has | 0:02:44 | 0:02:47 | |
been a place where youngsters have come to realise their dreams. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:53 | |
Tam. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
It's run by Tam Smith, who's been nurturing | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
talent here since 1986. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
This place is amazing. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
Aye, well, there's a lot of history in it. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:10 | |
The walls are lined with photo after photo of teams of smiling | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
kids, faces full of hope, proud to wear the yellow | 0:03:14 | 0:03:19 | |
and black of Hutchie Vale. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Many went on to make it in the senior game. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
It's like a who's who of Scottish football. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:33 | |
There's not everybody that's played and went to the senior game's | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
represented up on the wall, but we've got John Collins, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
who's in this photograph. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:39 | |
John Collins, Hibs, Celtic, Scotland. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
Steven McLean there. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
Still playing, at St Johnstone. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:48 | |
He was really a fantastic goal-scorer. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:49 | |
Used to score about 100 goals every season. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
There's Kenny Miller there. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:52 | |
How old will he be there? | 0:03:52 | 0:03:54 | |
He'll be about 13 there. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:55 | |
Leigh Griffiths was here for a few years. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
These two young guys are down at senior clubs the now, doing well. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
Regan Hendry and Ethan Hamilton, Regan's at Celtic, | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
and Ethan's at Man United. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
Is that a younger version of you? | 0:04:06 | 0:04:07 | |
That's a younger version of me. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
You must be very proud? | 0:04:09 | 0:04:10 | |
Yeah, very proud, of course. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
Yeah, very proud of all the kids that's played here. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:19 | |
I think it's just important that the kids are healthy and happy | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
and we provide an environment from which, that they can | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
thrive in, really. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
Among the photographs that line the walls is one | 0:04:30 | 0:04:32 | |
of a team from 1982. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
In the bottom row of the picture, wearing number four, | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
is a boy called Jon. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:43 | |
Football was always a big interest in my life. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:47 | |
From an early age, my father encouraged me to kick a football. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:56 | |
Jon was just like most boys he knew ? he dreamt | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
of being a professional footballer. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:04 | |
We went on an exchange trip and we had a small football | 0:05:04 | 0:05:10 | |
tournament and I seemed to be, I seemed to play at such a higher | 0:05:10 | 0:05:17 | |
level than everyone else. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:27 | |
He soon caught the attention of a man there called Gordon Neely, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
who would go on to coach and scout at the highest level | 0:05:35 | 0:05:38 | |
of the Scottish game. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
But this, Jon says, is when his abuse started. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:47 | |
He took me into a room at the back of our hall and told me | 0:05:47 | 0:05:54 | |
to take my shorts down and he put me over his knee and he proceeded | 0:05:54 | 0:06:00 | |
to spank me, which I felt I had done something wrong | 0:06:00 | 0:06:08 | |
and it was my punishment. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
Did you tell anyone? | 0:06:11 | 0:06:12 | |
Didn't tell anyone. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
Jon's silence seemed to be Neely's cue to escalate the abuse. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:23 | |
Said I looked like I had had an injury. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:31 | |
And same kind of thing, put me over his knee | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
and started to spank me, then he asked me to lean over a desk. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:39 | |
And that's when I was raped. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:45 | |
Did you have any idea what was happening to you? | 0:06:45 | 0:06:47 | |
Hadn't a clue. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
At that age, hadn't a clue what was going on. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:59 | |
You were 11. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
11. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
Could you tell anyone about that? | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
No, I couldn't have possibly at that age. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:22 | |
I thought it was my fault. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
I thought I had done something wrong. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:35 | |
Jon says, with Neely, he was never safe - | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
even in Hutchie Vale's clubhouse. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:46 | |
There was a massage table in the room and a cabinet on the wall, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
which I vividly remember. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:55 | |
And he would start to rub my legs and it would progress | 0:07:55 | 0:08:01 | |
from that to the point where I was getting raped. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
How many times did he do this to you? | 0:08:04 | 0:08:10 | |
I can't be 100% sure, but it was at least eight to ten | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
times over the space of 18 months. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:23 | |
The town of Dunkeld in Perthshire, near to Dalguise Activity Centre. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:33 | |
This was a place where, for at least 20 years, | 0:08:33 | 0:08:35 | |
Gordon Neely took promising young footballers on outdoor activity | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
weekends away from their parents. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:43 | |
I'm coming here with Jon. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
He says he was one the boys brought here - | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
and abused - by Neely. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:48 | |
When was the last time you drove down this road? | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
36 years ago. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:57 | |
A trip here, Jon says, will be part of the healing process. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:01 | |
I'm kind of guessing it's got a lot of history to it, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
but the history that I remember isn't a very good one. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:14 | |
I actually feel very emotional. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
In the main part of the building on the right hand side, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
I don't know if you can see the window's open. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
That's where the dormitories were. | 0:09:22 | 0:09:30 | |
Yeah, I'm done. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:38 | |
OK, let's go. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:46 | |
We've uncovered a catalogue of abuse claims involving | 0:09:46 | 0:09:51 | |
Gordon Neely at Hutchison Vale, some other Edinburgh youth | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
teams, and at Dalguise. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:59 | |
But somehow, he progressed to senior youth development positions | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
at several top-flight Scottish clubs - firstly Dundee United, | 0:10:01 | 0:10:11 | |
where, we're told, the abuse continued. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
We've spoken to several men who've told us about abuse by Neely. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
Their verbatim accounts are voiced by actors. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:29 | |
Gordon Neely's MO was about power. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:31 | |
Punishment spankings too. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
Lots of us youth players got them. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
He would make up stories that you'd done something wrong. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
He'd say, "We can sort this out in two ways. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:43 | |
"Either we kick you out or you come and see me | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
"and we sort this out privately." | 0:10:45 | 0:10:55 | |
Sometimes he'd wait for the manager to go out, take me into his office. | 0:10:55 | 0:11:05 | |
He'd have me over his knee, bare backside, spanking me. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:19 | |
By age 12, Jon - like Chris - was training at Hibs, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:25 | |
even picked to play for a Scotland youth team, under former national | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
manager Andy Roxburgh. | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
But what should have been the time of his young life | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
was actually a nightmare, endured in silence. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
Was Neely taking you to training? | 0:11:36 | 0:11:38 | |
Yeah. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:43 | |
He would always stop in the car park first. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:49 | |
And again, he would always talk about football-related things. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:56 | |
That was always the start of knowing that something would happen. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:06 | |
And then I would have to go and train with Hibs after that. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
After he'd abused you? | 0:12:11 | 0:12:12 | |
Yeah. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
It was at that point that I couldn't do it, | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
I couldn't face going to football training. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
I lost interest in football. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:32 | |
And your dad couldn't work out why? | 0:12:32 | 0:12:37 | |
Dad thought I'd thrown everything away. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
I could have been this and I could have been that. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:43 | |
And you were carrying all this inside you? | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
Yeah. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:47 | |
Alone. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:48 | |
I didn't have the confidence to tell my parents. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:58 | |
away in the background. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:08 | |
He was front and centre, even sitting in the dugout | 0:13:08 | 0:13:10 | |
alongside the manager. | 0:13:10 | 0:13:11 | |
So was anyone at Hibs aware of Neely's abuse? | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Ray Hepburn, a sports reporter, was one of those around | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
the club at the time. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
He had a close friendship with the late Hibs chairman Kenny Waugh. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:24 | |
He says Waugh confided in him about Neely's abuse. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
He was a bit agitated and unsettled and he said, | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
"We've got a big problem at Hibs." | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
And I said, "What is it?" | 0:13:35 | 0:13:36 | |
And he said, "Well, you can't ever discuss this | 0:13:36 | 0:13:40 | |
"with anybody, I'm telling you as a pal, in confidence." | 0:13:40 | 0:13:46 | |
He said we've had complaints by two sets of parents about Gordon Neely | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
and his behaviour with some of the boys. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
And of course it was quite devastating news. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:56 | |
He went on to explain that he had sacked him that day, | 0:13:56 | 0:14:03 | |
had reassured the parents by dealing with it in a very speedy | 0:14:03 | 0:14:05 | |
and decisive way. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:15 | |
No police. No police, though? | 0:14:15 | 0:14:16 | |
No police, no. No. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:26 | |
Some might say that this was a missed opportunity | 0:14:27 | 0:14:29 | |
to put an end to Neely's abuse. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
It clearly was. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
But football clubs have to be pragmatic and practical and deal | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
with it in a way that perhaps protects their ongoing operations. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:43 | |
The manager of Hibs at the time Neely was there was John Blackley. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:52 | |
involving Gordon Neely, and that Kenny Waugh and the club | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
were fully aware of it. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:55 | |
He says the police were never involved. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
Hibs told us the club was co-operating fully with the police. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
In a statement, the club said it was: | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
"saddened to be told" that personnel at the club at the time | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
were "allegedly made aware of concerns" about Neely and, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
again allegedly, "did not contact the police with the concerns." | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
This is something which "current policies and practices" | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
would "prevent from happening today". | 0:15:19 | 0:15:24 | |
It was a missed opportunity to stop Neely in his tracks. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:28 | |
Instead, he landed an even bigger job. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
This time, as head of youth development at Rangers. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
Apparently, no-one at Ibrox was warned about Neely's | 0:15:33 | 0:15:36 | |
criminal behaviour. | 0:15:36 | 0:15:40 | |
Under the new regime of Graeme Souness and Walter Smith, | 0:15:40 | 0:15:42 | |
in 1986, Neely was given responsibility for turning Rangers | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
into a powerhouse for young talent. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
But we've been told his abuse continued at Ibrox. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
I mean, he had his own office inside Ibrox and he'd call | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
you in and he'd make you close the door. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:01 | |
And he'd pull your shorts and pants down and then he'd spank | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
you with like this kind of, like, rubber shoe. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:13 | |
I mean, I wasn't the only one. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
He'd give you ten or 20 whacks for anything. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
I was only about 13. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:28 | |
Rangers told us it was aware of an alleged incident | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
more than 25 years ago. | 0:16:30 | 0:16:31 | |
In a statement the club said: "It is understood" the individual | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
was "dismissed immediately" and that the "police were informed." | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
"All employees adhered" to the "strictest codes of conduct..." | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
And the club "would always cooperate fully" with the authorities. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
Police Scotland say they can't confirm whether Rangers | 0:16:42 | 0:16:51 | |
made a complaint or not. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
We've asked just about every surviving senior person | 0:16:53 | 0:16:56 | |
who was at Rangers at that time for more details, | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
but they've given none. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
And we can find no trace of a police report being sent | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
to the Procurator Fiscal. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
Neely was put out of senior football, but like so many abusers, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
he simply changed tactics. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
I was playing with one of the Edinburgh clubs at the time, | 0:17:12 | 0:17:19 | |
and a guy came up to me after a match. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
It was Gordon Neely. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:23 | |
And he said he could make me a better player, and I needed some | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
one-to-one coaching. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:33 | |
Said he knew all the big players and managers. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
So every other weekend I'd go up to Dunkeld. | 0:17:36 | 0:17:39 | |
He told me I had a condition that was hampering me. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:47 | |
And that he could help me with it. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:52 | |
So he would examine my back side, and then he would put | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
his fingers inside me. | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
Looking back, he was basically raping me with his fingers. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:05 | |
I knew it was wrong. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:10 | |
It went on for about ten minutes each time, | 0:18:10 | 0:18:16 | |
but I couldn't do anything. I just froze. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:19 | |
I didn't want to complain because I thought it would ruin | 0:18:19 | 0:18:23 | |
the chances of me getting the trial he'd promised me. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:33 | |
"Paul's" alleged abuse took place around a decade after complaints | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
about Neely were made to Hibs, and more than five years after | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
a complaint was made at Rangers. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
Neely had simply reinvented himself by organising outdoor activities | 0:18:49 | 0:18:59 | |
and one-to-one training either here at Dalguise, or nearby Dunkeld. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
Over three decades, hundreds, if not thousands of boys would have | 0:19:04 | 0:19:10 | |
passed through there under his care. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
Opportunities to put an end to Neely's abuse ? | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
either by the football clubs or by the police ? were squandered. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:21 | |
Police Scotland is now investigating Gordon Neely. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
But that's come too late for his victims. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
In 2014, at the age of 62, Neely died - | 0:19:30 | 0:19:34 | |
without ever having to face justice. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
who is still alive. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
Someone who operated as a senior scout for years | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
at the biggest clubs in the UK. He can't be named for legal reasons. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:58 | |
At that age you think it's your own fault, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
or people won't believe you. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:04 | |
This is John Burgess, who knew the man as a high-profile scout. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:17 | |
His reputation was, you know, highly thought of. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:19 | |
He was a scout for Rangers, he knew Jock Wallace. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
And he was pretty well respected. | 0:20:22 | 0:20:27 | |
As a 17-year-old who'd had too much to drink one night | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
in a local social club, John says he had a lucky escape. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:32 | |
He says, look at the state of you, what would your mother think? | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
He says, you can't go home in that state, can you? | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
So I got in the car. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:42 | |
I felt a bit queasy and he said, well, I'll put you to bed. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
So still thinking nothing of it, I went through to one of the rooms. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:53 | |
I remember saying to him, is that not your room? | 0:20:53 | 0:20:56 | |
He said, oh, no, I'll sleep in the spare room. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
So not thinking anything of it again, you know, full of trust. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
He says what happened next has lived with him since then. | 0:21:03 | 0:21:07 | |
Woke up with a bit of a fright. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
He was next to me, pressing himself into me. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
Telling me you know, telling me what he wanted to do to me, | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
which was quite frightening. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:20 | |
I thought if there is a race to the door, I'm going to win. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
So I got my clothes and got to the door and fumbled | 0:21:24 | 0:21:27 | |
with the locks and heard footsteps behind me, but I managed to get | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
out and into the street and made a bee-line home. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
It's something that never leaves you. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
I feel guilty about it, not doing anything about it then. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
Because, you know, I'm older. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
I should have known better. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
We've been told the abuse became increasingly serious. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
We know of three men who now allege the scout | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
assaulted them as children. One of them was Levi Stephen. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:09 | |
He represented Scotland at youth level and had a career | 0:22:09 | 0:22:11 | |
in the professional game, playing for Rangers, and Clydebank. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
As a 13-year-old, he was considered to be one of the most promising | 0:22:15 | 0:22:21 | |
players of his generation. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
It was at this time he came to the attention of the scout, | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
who'd allegedly assaulted John Burgess. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
He was now working for Liverpool ? then, | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
the most successful club in the UK. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
Levi's mum remembers the call from the scout. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:36 | |
Liverpool, her son's favourite team, wanted him to come down | 0:22:36 | 0:22:40 | |
from Aberdeen for a trial. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
He sounded very nice on the phone. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
But I think maybe not only Levi, but I was star-struck. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
Like, you trust. Och, it's like, Liverpool. | 0:22:47 | 0:22:53 | |
You know, like. Wow. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
He convinced me that Levi would be in safe hands. | 0:22:56 | 0:23:00 | |
I just wanted to play football. | 0:23:00 | 0:23:06 | |
You just want to play and play to the best | 0:23:06 | 0:23:08 | |
of your ability and impress people. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
Over the weekend of the trial, Levi was to stay with | 0:23:12 | 0:23:15 | |
the scout at his flat. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:16 | |
He would be captain, wearing the coveted number seven ? | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
the same as his hero, Kenny Dalglish, who'd | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
invited him to the trial. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
I played the game and then we got back after the game in his living | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
room and he said, oh, there's a thing you can do | 0:23:28 | 0:23:31 | |
to relax your muscles, do you want to try it? | 0:23:31 | 0:23:36 | |
And I'm like that, well yeah anything that will, | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
ken, help me recover and improve the game. | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
Levi says the scout gave him a massage, but he soon felt faint | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
and had to be helped to a bedroom. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:52 | |
So it ended up I'm on the bed lying on my back, | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
and obviously I was naked, and I had a towel on my chest | 0:23:55 | 0:23:59 | |
and he just, out of nowhere, he just flicked, flicked my private. | 0:23:59 | 0:24:07 | |
And the next thing I know he's abusing me and | 0:24:07 | 0:24:13 | |
things were going through my mind, just like, what's going on? | 0:24:13 | 0:24:21 | |
Then obviously I climaxed and then he just says I'll go and help | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
clean it up for you, left the room, came back with toilet roll, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:31 | |
cleaned it off his hands and whatever and then just says, | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
"Oh, see you in the morning," and he shut the door. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:36 | |
So I'm like that, what, what just happened, you know? | 0:24:36 | 0:24:39 | |
And it's like, well, was that right? | 0:24:39 | 0:24:49 | |
How old were you, Levi? | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
I think it was two weeks shy of my 14th birthday. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
Levi says he believes the scout was grooming him for what lay | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
ahead, the next day. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:02 | |
We went to a market and we got back to the flat. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:12 | |
And I opened the door, and I opened the door | 0:25:13 | 0:25:23 | |
and he tripped me up and then he, I landed face first and he got | 0:25:24 | 0:25:34 | |
and he tripped me up and then he, I landed face first and he got | 0:25:37 | 0:25:43 | |
on top of me and he's trying to take my pants down and that. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:50 | |
You could feel his erection, ken, in the back of my leg | 0:25:50 | 0:25:55 | |
so I fought him off. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:56 | |
I says, "It ain't happening," and he just accepted it. | 0:25:56 | 0:26:01 | |
And nothing else was said. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
How long did you have to stay in his company for after that? | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
A whole day. A whole day. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:15 | |
Levi says the scout simply dropped him off at the train station | 0:26:15 | 0:26:18 | |
as if nothing had happened. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
Do you remember the train journey home? | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
I was wrestling in my mind whether to tell my mother. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
Cos we're quite an open family. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:35 | |
Did you tell her? | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
How do you tell your mum, though? | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
I couldn't speak, I was just in shock. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:07 | |
I didn't know what to do. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
So I was frantic, I just says, well, we have to tell the police, | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
we have to do something about this. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:14 | |
But he's only like, oh, it's Liverpool, can't, | 0:27:14 | 0:27:19 | |
don't say anything, Mum, it's fine, I'll be fine. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
But he wasn't. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
I was so scared of jeopardising his career. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:30 | |
Because he was up and coming. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
I mean, all the premier teams were after him. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:36 | |
I think my mum had my best interests at heart. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:39 | |
She didn't want to affect my future prospects, I think. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:46 | |
I felt weak, I felt a bad mother. I felt I let him down. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
Because I didn't do anything at the time. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:56 | |
were told about this scout. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
Remember Tam Smith from Hutchie Vale? | 0:28:03 | 0:28:07 | |
Tam became aware of allegations when a former Rangers youth player | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
told him that he had been abused in the 80s by the same scout. | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
told him that he had been abused in the' 80s by the same scout. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
I said, you need to go to the police with this. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:19 | |
And he was a wee bit hesitant about doing that. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:23 | |
He was only 24, and never told anybody ever before that. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:27 | |
After giving a statement, Tam says the boy never heard | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
back from the police. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
Around a decade later, Tam says he got a shock | 0:28:32 | 0:28:37 | |
when watching a TV documentary. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
I want to see if you recognise this. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
Oh, aye, I recognise him all right. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
The scout was still working with boys - | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
this time, at one of Britain's biggest clubs, Chelsea. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:53 | |
When I saw it I was, incredulous with rage. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:56 | |
Had been to the police in '92 about him, | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
with a lad who told me he'd been abused. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
A lad I've known since he was 11 years old. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
Tam says he phoned Chelsea to warn them he believed the scout | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
was a danger to children. | 0:29:08 | 0:29:09 | |
And he phoned me back the next day and says he'd never had any | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
complaints about him and didnae see any reason why he shouldnae continue | 0:29:12 | 0:29:16 | |
working with Chelsea, so that was that. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:19 | |
I just felt that, do you know what I felt? | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
I felt like nobody's really cared, nobody was bothered, | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
that's what I felt. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:26 | |
It makes me feel angry and it makes me feel helpless as well, | 0:29:26 | 0:29:29 | |
actually, that nothing was done. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
Chelsea said it was "fully supporting" police investigations | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
on this issue, and "encouraged anyone to come forward" | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
by contacting either the "club or the police". | 0:29:39 | 0:29:42 | |
More than 80 men involved in football are being investigated | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
by police across the UK, including this scout. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:51 | |
Among them: John Hart, former physiotherapist at Partick Thistle. | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
Jim McCafferty, ex-youth coach and kitman at Celtic, Hibs and Falkirk. | 0:29:55 | 0:30:00 | |
And Hugh Stevenson, who was a youth coach and referee. | 0:30:00 | 0:30:05 | |
And, the Scottish Youth FA has become embroiled in safety | 0:30:05 | 0:30:09 | |
concerns over its vetting procedures for coaches. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
Since November, Police Scotland has received more than 130 | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
claims of child sex abuse within Scottish football. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:21 | |
It's not the first time Scottish football has been rocked | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
by child abuse allegations. | 0:30:28 | 0:30:34 | |
The founder of Celtic Boys' Club James Torbett has been jailed | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
for two years for sexually abusing three young players | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
between 1967 and 197. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
between 1967 and 1974. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:43 | |
In 1998, three former Celtic Boys' Club players, | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
including ex-Scotland international Alan Brazil testified | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
against their former coach. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
Another former Celtic Boys' Club coach, Frank Cairney, | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
was acquitted of similar charges. | 0:30:56 | 0:30:59 | |
Although officially a separate entity, Celtic Boys' Club's history | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
has been inextricably linked with the senior club. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
Founded by Torbett in 1966 with the permission of legendary | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
former manager, the late Jock Stein, the Boys' Club took Celtic's | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
name and club crest. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
Over the next four decades, it would produce some of the club's | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
finest players, including Charlie Nicholas, Paul McStay, | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
Tommy Burns, and many others. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:35 | |
Torbett's conviction for offences committed up to 1974 cast a shadow | 0:31:35 | 0:31:40 | |
over the Boys Club's trophy-laden history. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:48 | |
Rumours have persisted | 0:31:48 | 0:31:52 | |
since Torbett was jailed that the full extent | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
of his offending has never been revealed. | 0:31:54 | 0:32:00 | |
I had to go back to the Daily Record's breaking | 0:32:00 | 0:32:02 | |
of the story in the 1990s. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
Its chief reporter was Anna Smith. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
Well, the very first whispers were a very long time ago. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:15 | |
There was things you heard but nobody had been able to prove | 0:32:15 | 0:32:18 | |
anything because nobody would talk about it. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:20 | |
So nobody ever really got to grips with it. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:22 | |
Then, former players came forward to tell of their abuse | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
at the hands of Torbett. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:29 | |
And the one particular guy that I spoke to. | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
I could see the effect that had on him. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
That ruined his life. | 0:32:33 | 0:32:34 | |
All he wanted to do was play football for Celtic. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:37 | |
And when you're getting taken away and, tournaments abroad, | 0:32:37 | 0:32:42 | |
you're being groomed for stardom, but he was grooming | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
people for other things. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
But were there more stories out there waiting to be told? | 0:32:48 | 0:32:55 | |
This is more than 30 years of bound copies of the Celtic View, | 0:32:55 | 0:32:59 | |
the official in-house magazine for Celtic Football Club | 0:32:59 | 0:33:03 | |
and what they contain is effectively a comprehensive account | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
of everything to do with Celtic over the years, but not just | 0:33:07 | 0:33:11 | |
about the big team - also about Celtic Boys' Club. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
And anything I need to find out about the Boys' Club | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
is bound to be in here. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
Some of the photos in here | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
were taken by this man, Hugh Birt, who had been a Celtic photographer. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
Birt's evidence was crucial in the case against Torbett - | 0:33:32 | 0:33:35 | |
telling the jury Torbett had been kicked out of the boys' club | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
in 1974 by Jock Stein over child abuse claims. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
And we've spoken to three other former Celtic Boys' Club officials ? | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
there at the time ? who also say they were told Torbett was sacked | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
by Stein after complaints Torbett had abused boys. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:50 | |
The police were never called. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:57 | |
But here, buried in the archives of the Celtic View, is the official | 0:33:57 | 0:34:01 | |
account of how Torbett left Celtic Boys' Club in 1974. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:05 | |
It says he's leaving because of business reasons, | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
time constraints and is full of praise for Torbett. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:13 | |
It makes no mention of course of any allegations of sexual abuse. | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
Which means, if Hugh Birt was telling the truth to a Glasgow | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
court 24 years later about the real reason for Jim Torbett | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
exiting Celtic Boys' Club, it was indeed a massive cover-up. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:33 | |
Three years after he was allegedly kicked out by Jock Stein, | 0:34:33 | 0:34:38 | |
Torbett was presented with an award for services to the boys' club - | 0:34:38 | 0:34:43 | |
by its honorary president, Stein. According to Birt's evidence | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
to court, and to other sources spoken to by the BBC, | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
some of those on the board of Celtic FC, including Kevin Kelly, | 0:34:50 | 0:34:56 | |
would learn exactly why Torbett had been kicked out in the '70s. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
Kelly took over as honorary president of Celtic | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
Boys' Club in 1977. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
And yet Torbett had managed by 1980 to return to the boys' club | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
and stay there till 1996. | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
Why would you ever bring him back? | 0:35:09 | 0:35:14 | |
If I was them I'd be searching my conscience | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
because perhaps they should have asked more questions. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:25 | |
The reporting of the Torbett trial suggested he had only returned | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
the club in a fundraising capacity ? but what these reveal | 0:35:28 | 0:35:33 | |
is that he returned to a central position within the club where once | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
more he was coaching boys and managing teams, | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
throughout the '80s and some of the '90s. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:47 | |
Torbett had friends on the Celtic board. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:48 | |
Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn, for instance. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
The club gave a lucrative contract to Torbett's | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
company, the Trophy Centre, which opened in 1984. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
Kelly became a director of the business in 1986 and remained | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
on its board until 2005. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
From around 1998 ? the year Torbett was jailed ? | 0:36:05 | 0:36:10 | |
Jack McGinn was an employee, of the Trophy Centre. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:12 | |
Kelly and McGinn's association with Torbett's business continued - | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
even after he was jailed for child abuse. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:19 | |
Kevin Kelly and Jack McGinn declined to be interviewed | 0:36:19 | 0:36:21 | |
for this programme. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:26 | |
In letters to the BBC, Mr Kelly and Mr McGinn said to draw | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
an inference they knew of Mr Torbett's conduct | 0:36:29 | 0:36:33 | |
is totally without foundation. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
Both said they would have done all they could to prevent the return | 0:36:36 | 0:36:42 | |
of Mr Torbett to the Boys' Club had they known of, | 0:36:42 | 0:36:45 | |
or had been provided | 0:36:45 | 0:36:46 | |
with evidence of any historic abuse. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
Remember, Torbett was only ever convicted for crimes | 0:36:49 | 0:36:51 | |
committed up to 1974. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
And we know he returned to Celtic Boys' Club by the early | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
'80s, apparently with the blessing of the Celtic board. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:03 | |
No-one has yet spoken out about abuse during Torbett's second | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
spell at the boys' club. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
But what if he simply carried on offending? | 0:37:07 | 0:37:13 | |
We'd heard about a number of boys who had apparently | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
been close to Torbett. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:17 | |
The same names kept popping up. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:20 | |
One of them was Kenny Campbell. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:25 | |
We tracked him down, and nearly 30 years on, | 0:37:25 | 0:37:31 | |
he was ready to talk. Is that you there? | 0:37:31 | 0:37:38 | |
Kenny had joined Celtic Boys' Club in 1985 as a 13-year-old sensation. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
Tell me what it was like pulling on a Celtic jersey | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
for the first time. Unbelievable. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:46 | |
Words probably couldn't describe it. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:47 | |
To be honest with you, that's how much it meant | 0:37:47 | 0:37:50 | |
to me like, you know. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:51 | |
Absolutely amazing. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:53 | |
One of the best days of my life, still is to this day. | 0:37:53 | 0:38:03 | |
One day you were at school and the next day you were talking | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
to Paul McStay, just for example, or Frank McAvennie | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
or somebody like that. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:09 | |
I was like a rabbit in the headlights. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:11 | |
How do you think your mum and dad felt about you playing for Celtic? | 0:38:11 | 0:38:14 | |
Incredibly proud. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:16 | |
Definitely. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
My dad especially, because he was a mad Celtic fan and all. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
It was always his ambition for me to run out of the tunnel at Parkhead. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:25 | |
Kenny moved up to the senior team in 1989 after three years | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
with the boys' club. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
He made around 20 appearances for the reserves but never broke | 0:38:32 | 0:38:34 | |
through to the first team. | 0:38:34 | 0:38:36 | |
But from under-14s right through to the senior team, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:38 | |
Kenny says everything he did, was under the spell of Jim Torbett. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:44 | |
Pretty quickly he became a hero of mine, pretty quickly. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:53 | |
In my mind he was doing good things for us and that. | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
What was he doing? | 0:38:56 | 0:39:06 | |
Cos he pushed the chief scout at Celtic to get me signed. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
He pushed and pushed and pushed. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:10 | |
It was between me and a boy called Paul from Eastercraigs, and I'm | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
going to be honest in front of the camera and say | 0:39:13 | 0:39:16 | |
he was a better player than what I was, but I got signed | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
and he didn't. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:20 | |
And that was mainly down to Jim pushing. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:22 | |
I'd have jumped in front of a bus for him if he had | 0:39:22 | 0:39:25 | |
asked me, guaranteed. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:26 | |
So it was as if he had a hold over us. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
He must have had a reason for doing what he did but I know | 0:39:30 | 0:39:33 | |
what his reasons were. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:40 | |
Torbett won the trust of Kenny's parents, even spending | 0:39:40 | 0:39:42 | |
a Christmas Day with them. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
So no questions were asked when Kenny spent most | 0:39:44 | 0:39:46 | |
weekends at Torbett's flat. | 0:39:46 | 0:39:52 | |
I was just sitting on the couch one night with him and he started | 0:39:52 | 0:39:55 | |
rubbing my leg. | 0:39:55 | 0:39:56 | |
He must have been trying to see how it | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
would go, I don't know. | 0:39:59 | 0:40:00 | |
And you were 14? | 0:40:00 | 0:40:01 | |
Aye, 14, aye. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:02 | |
Just a boy. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:03 | |
Just a kid, know what I mean, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
I just wanted to play football. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:13 | |
Kenny says this was start of three years of sexual abuse ? continuing | 0:40:13 | 0:40:16 | |
into his time at Celtic's senior team ? at the hands of the man | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
he regarded as a hero. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:27 | |
It would be him, masturbating himself in front of you. | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
He wanted to talk dirty and things like that, you know? | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
He would be saying things to you? | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
Aye, aye, aye. | 0:40:34 | 0:40:35 | |
I mean dirty to me was a dirty window. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:39 | |
I just presumed it was normal ? just, you know what I mean, | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
but again, today I know it's not. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:52 | |
What did he make you do? | 0:40:58 | 0:40:59 | |
He used to get my hand, and he used to wrap his penis - | 0:40:59 | 0:41:02 | |
call it that - in a white handkerchief and he used | 0:41:02 | 0:41:05 | |
to get your hand and get you to masturbate him. | 0:41:05 | 0:41:07 | |
I didn't realise at the time that it must have been his way of trying | 0:41:07 | 0:41:11 | |
to clear his conscience. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
Then he would, he would touch away to you and kiss away until you had | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
an erection and then he would just take it from there. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:27 | |
Roughly, do you know how many times this happened? | 0:41:29 | 0:41:31 | |
Time after time after time. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:33 | |
That was just the start. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:34 | |
It progressed from there to then he would be giving | 0:41:34 | 0:41:36 | |
you money and all that. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:37 | |
It must have been | 0:41:37 | 0:41:38 | |
turning him on. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:39 | |
He would give you a ?50 note. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
While he was abusing you? | 0:41:41 | 0:41:42 | |
Aye, aye, aye, aye. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:43 | |
I think the most money I left his house with was 530 quid. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:46 | |
Either 520 or 530. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:47 | |
Did you tell anybody about this? | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
No. | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
No, I just thought it was natural. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:52 | |
I just thought that's was what happened. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:58 | |
Did you witness Jim Torbett abusing any other boys? | 0:41:58 | 0:42:00 | |
Aye. | 0:42:00 | 0:42:01 | |
Same scenario as with myself. | 0:42:01 | 0:42:06 | |
It was like a queue at the side of his bed, there would be two | 0:42:06 | 0:42:10 | |
of you there, or maybe three there, and everybody | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
would get their turn. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:13 | |
You moved up, and you're waiting to be served | 0:42:13 | 0:42:15 | |
like a butcher's or something, something like that, | 0:42:15 | 0:42:17 | |
you know what I mean? | 0:42:17 | 0:42:18 | |
It's shocking, absolutely shocking. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:19 | |
And he would be touching each boy in turn? | 0:42:19 | 0:42:22 | |
Aye, aye, as well as himself. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:28 | |
Kenny is the first person to speak out claiming he was abused | 0:42:28 | 0:42:32 | |
at Celtic Boys' Club during Torbett's second spell. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:34 | |
But he's not the only one to come forward. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:37 | |
I was contacted by another former player. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:42 | |
Not yet ready to speak publicly, we tell his story through an actor. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:47 | |
I went to a tournament in Noyon, France. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:51 | |
I hardly kicked a ball. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:57 | |
I'd been ill, but I went along anyway to the trip, | 0:42:57 | 0:42:59 | |
because Jim asked me to. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:04 | |
Somehow, when they were handing out the awards for the trip, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:08 | |
I won boy of the tournament. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:15 | |
I was confused by that, because I know I didn't deserve it. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:20 | |
I feel I can now see what that was about. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:27 | |
Jim Torbett abused me for the next three years, dozens of times. | 0:43:27 | 0:43:34 | |
Touching me in his car, in his flat. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:42 | |
He had a hold over me ? and I never told a soul till a few months ago. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:52 | |
Jason's experience mirrors what Kenny says happened to him. | 0:43:57 | 0:44:02 | |
Which brings me to a story about Player of the Year. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
Torbett used to keep marks out of five and it was the last | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
game of the season, and it was neck-and-neck | 0:44:08 | 0:44:10 | |
between Brian O'Neil and me, for player of the year. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:12 | |
And rightly so in the last game, | 0:44:12 | 0:44:16 | |
Brian got a five and I got a four, | 0:44:16 | 0:44:18 | |
and he beat me by one point. | 0:44:18 | 0:44:20 | |
Now obviously, I've lost Player of the Year, right, but, | 0:44:20 | 0:44:22 | |
there was a mad trumped-up thing called Boy of The Year, | 0:44:22 | 0:44:27 | |
Billy McNeil, presented me with the big trophy. | 0:44:27 | 0:44:31 | |
Now when I think back to it, it's as if it's tarnished, | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
you know what I mean, it's tarnished, it's no good, | 0:44:34 | 0:44:36 | |
it's no good, because it wasn't done for the right reasons, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
know what I mean? | 0:44:39 | 0:44:45 | |
Kenny's Celtic career was effectively ended by illness, | 0:44:45 | 0:44:47 | |
before his life spiralled downwards into drink and drugs. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
He's now clean and sober. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:55 | |
But how does he feel knowing Torbett was allegedly allowed to return | 0:44:55 | 0:44:57 | |
to Celtic Boys' Club, despite previous child abuse claims? | 0:44:57 | 0:45:04 | |
I feel aggrieved at that. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:05 | |
If they had never let him back in it | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
would have never happened in the first place, | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
I could have had a normal life, normal people round about me. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
If Celtic had done their due diligence, as they always say. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
Best club in the world and all that. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:18 | |
Aye, cheers(!) | 0:45:18 | 0:45:19 | |
Know what I mean, he should never have been allowed near it, eh? | 0:45:19 | 0:45:23 | |
And it wouldn't have happened to me. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:30 | |
I wanted to confront Torbett to put these allegations to him. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:33 | |
Neighbours told me he hadn't been seen for two months. | 0:45:33 | 0:45:41 | |
Mr Torbett? | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
Mr Torbett, Mark Daly from the BBC ? can we have a word please? | 0:45:44 | 0:45:47 | |
I tried calling his mobile. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:52 | |
Foreign ringtone. | 0:45:52 | 0:46:02 | |
But I did hear from his lawyer, who told me Mr Torbett | 0:46:02 | 0:46:05 | |
vehemently denies these completely false allegations. | 0:46:05 | 0:46:15 | |
The lawyer said it would be inappropriate for Mr Torbett | 0:46:15 | 0:46:18 | |
to provide an interview with the BBC and that | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
due process of the law must be followed. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:22 | |
A spokesman for Celtic FC said the Boys' Club was a separate | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
and distinct organisation from Celtic Football Club. | 0:46:25 | 0:46:26 | |
It was vital that justice was served at that time, | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
due to the extremely serious nature of this issue. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:33 | |
Celtic asks anyone with any concerns to contact them. | 0:46:33 | 0:46:39 | |
The Scottish FA has launched a major inquiry into historical abuse. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:47 | |
But our investigation has revealed fresh claims of abuse ? stretching | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
back decades ? and repeated missed opportunities to stop it. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
The BBC is prepared to assist police in any inquiries. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:58 | |
The reputation of football and those within it, | 0:46:58 | 0:47:02 | |
who play the sport. | 0:47:02 | 0:47:09 | |
And to those children ? who as men have found the courage to speak out | 0:47:09 | 0:47:13 | |
? the beautiful game will be forever in debt. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:18 | |
If you spend too much time dwelling on it, | 0:47:18 | 0:47:20 | |
it's going to destroy you. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:21 | |
That's the thing. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:25 | |
Talk to someone ? anyone. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
Get it off your chest. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:31 | |
Tell your best friend. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:33 | |
Just talk to somebody you trust. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:36 | |
Why is now the time? | 0:47:36 | 0:47:39 | |
Just so I can sleep at night better. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
The knot's away out my stomach. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:43 | |
I've had a knot in my stomach for 20 years. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:45 | |
I didn't know what it was. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
It's away now. | 0:47:47 | 0:47:49 | |
You wouldn't believe it, wouldn't believe it. | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
For a long, long time I've felt like I've been standing at the edge | 0:47:54 | 0:48:03 | |
of a bridge but having spoke to the people that matter | 0:48:03 | 0:48:08 | |
in my life, I've been able to get onto that bridge. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:18 | |
I'm not quite over the other side yet. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
But I'm on the bridge. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:30 |