Browse content similar to 11/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Afternoon, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics, on the day when the | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
prospects of Rupert Murdoch taking over the whole of BSkyB are getting | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
slimmer and slimmer. Labour is threatening a Parliamentary vote on | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
the matter on Wednesday, and Culture Secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
this morning written to Ofcom and the Office of Fair Trading to ask | :00:36. | :00:43. | |
for further advice on allowing the takeover. Almost everybody thinks | :00:43. | :00:49. | |
the Government is looking for a way to stop the takeover. What will Mr | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
Murdoch's next move be? After months of wrangling, the Government | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
is finally about to release its public services white paper, | :00:54. | :01:02. | |
promising power to the people. We'll examine the details. | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
And we'll bring you tales of drunkeness and debauchery from the | :01:05. | :01:15. | |
:01:15. | :01:19. | ||
Why don't we get invited to those parties? | :01:19. | :01:24. | |
I have never seen that! All that in the next half hour. With us for the | :01:24. | :01:26. | |
duration, journalist Simon Jenkins, welcome to the show. Rupert Murdoch | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
has flown into the country to give his support to Rebekah Brooks, who | :01:30. | :01:33. | |
is likely this week to be interviewed by the police. | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
Meanwhile, it has emerged this morning that Culture Secretary, | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
Jeremy Hunt, is writing to Ofcom and the Office of Fair Trading to | :01:39. | :01:46. | |
ask for further advice on whether there should be an inquiry. I also | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
heard yesterday that they've just commissioned a new series of Dallas. | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
I don't know why they bothered. There's much more intrigue, double- | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
dealing and corporate bad behavious at Wapping. | :01:58. | :02:01. | |
-- bad behaviour. Here's Adam Fleming with a round up of the | :02:01. | :02:06. | |
story so far. Here are the comings and goings | :02:06. | :02:10. | |
since your last tuned into The Daily Politics. Gone, the News of | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
the World, 5 million copies were printed of the last ever edition. | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
Coming, Rupert Murdoch touched down in the UK for a show of support for | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
his top executive and former News of the World editor, Rebekah Brooks, | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
and to see what effect his -- the scandal is having on his bid for | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
the trunk of the satellite broadcaster BSkyB, which he doesn't | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
already own -- the truck. Walking into Nick Clegg's office, the | :02:36. | :02:41. | |
family of Milly Dowler, whose firm was allegedly hacked. The Deputy | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
Prime Minister had this message for Mr Murdoch. I would say, look how | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
people feel at honest. Look out the country has acted with revulsion to | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
the revelations. So do the decent and sensible thing, and reconsider, | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
think again about your bid for BSkyB. | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
Arriving in the Commons on Wednesday, a motion to that effect | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
from Labour, which is getting support from many Lib Dem MPs and | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
some Tories. But potentially tromping that is a letter winging | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
his way to the communications regulator of Comp, from the Culture | :03:13. | :03:19. | |
Secretary, Jeremy Hunt -- Ofcom. Asking for fresh advice which could | :03:19. | :03:25. | |
put the kibosh on that takeover. The advice I already have is that I | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
should allow this deal to go ahead. But obviously in the last week, we | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
have had some horrific revelations which I think have shocked everyone. | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
I am writing back to them and saying, do you still stand behind | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
the advice you gave me before, that this deal should be allowed to go | :03:41. | :03:46. | |
ahead, or are there some new facts which have emerged that will cause | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
you to change that advice? knows what the next headline will | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
be in a story that's changing by the minute. | :03:56. | :04:02. | |
It is indeed. Simon Jenkins has worked for News International, he | :04:02. | :04:07. | |
knows the media scene back to front. It is pretty clear that if the | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
government can find any possible way of stopping or delaying this | :04:10. | :04:15. | |
together, they will do it. Yeah. ain't going out and if they can | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
stop it. The politics is all over it now. They will do that and there | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
are ways of doing it. Whether it matters is a different matter. It | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
has become so toxic politically that they have got to do it. | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
Labour Force did to a vote, it probably won't go to that, I would | :04:34. | :04:38. | |
suggest Mr Cameron would have difficulty whipping his own side -- | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
forced it to a vote. He would lose This is increasing his shareholding | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
in a company he already runs. A bigger story than famine in East | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
Anglia -- East Africa? It is leading every news channel in | :04:56. | :05:04. | |
Britain. You don't think we should? This is a commercial rival. The | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
media are not dispassionate in this story, it is a masher -- matter of | :05:09. | :05:15. | |
commercial rivalry. It is a watershed. Since Harold wasn't, | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
prime ministers, or those who have wanted to be Prime Minister, have | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
paid abeyance to Mr Murdoch -- since Harold Wilson. That ain't | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
going to happen again. Yes, it will. Insofar as papers have power, media | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
groups have power. They will do it again. Nothing will change. | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
don't think that Mr Murdoch has become such a toxic figure that a | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
politician would be better to try to get elected by saying he has got | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
nothing to do with him? We can remember when he was a toxic vigour | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
before, he has been all his life. He has never been a toxic figure in | :05:52. | :05:56. | |
the way that it is because of the phone hacking. This week, yeah. And | :05:56. | :06:01. | |
last week. We will see. I am not sure you are right on that. Tessa | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
Jowell, good to see you. At what point did you and Labour decide | :06:07. | :06:13. | |
that Mr Murdoch's ownership of so much media was maligned? I think it | :06:13. | :06:19. | |
has been a continuing preoccupation, and when I was Culture Secretary, I | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
made sure that the Communications Act had a provision in it to | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
safeguard plurality, in the light of convergence, and to address | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
precisely the kind of situation that we are in today, with News | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
International wanting to acquire BSkyB. As Culture Secretary, you | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
relaxed the rules on media ownership in this country. No, I | :06:44. | :06:52. | |
made it easier for local newspapers to own up local radio stations. | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
relaxed the laws, you made it easier for mergers and cross | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
ownership of different kinds of media to happen. That was one of | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
the purposes of the bill. I remember covering it at the time, a | :07:04. | :07:11. | |
lot of people didn't like it. we safeguarded the fact of | :07:11. | :07:17. | |
convergence, that people would read newspapers online. The threat to | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
local newspapers. With the plurality provisions, to ensure | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
that the number of voices and the range of views still predominated. | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
An interesting rewriting of history. I don't think so. You were | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
presented by the Information Commissioner with a report that | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
showed the illegal gathering of information was rife in British | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
newspapers, it was endemic, and the News of the World was not anywhere | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
near the worst. Why did the last Labour government do nothing about | :07:46. | :07:55. | |
that? We certainly should have done. Why didn't you? I don't think there | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
is any good reason to explain why we didn't do anything about it. We | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
certainly should have done. Because you were in bed with Rupert | :08:02. | :08:11. | |
Murdoch? No. I think this is overstated. The focus now is on a | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
news organisation which appears to have committed, in a pretty | :08:15. | :08:21. | |
systematic way, a number of criminal acts. I think you have got | :08:21. | :08:27. | |
to create a bit of sense of proportion about the inevitability | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
that politicians like me and Bonn will have relationships, with | :08:32. | :08:38. | |
newspaper editors. But will continue. It should be motivated by | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
the public interest and not other interests. The relationships that | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
New Labour had with Rupert Murdoch and his people were on a different | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
level to relationships I have with various governments. Let me bring | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
in Don Foster. You have got clean hands because Rupert Murdoch never | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
thought you mattered and didn't want to waste his time dealing with | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
the Lib Dems, who he thought were useless. You now have a free hand | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
to do what you want. Am I right in saying, in so far as I can divine | :09:08. | :09:13. | |
it, it is your party's policy that this takeover must not happen? | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
don't want it to go ahead, that is certainly true. I am concerned | :09:18. | :09:23. | |
about this rewriting of history about the Labour Party. 1996, John | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
Major tried to control ownership of the media, when in opposition, the | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
Labour Party opposed that, and Tony Blair flew over to America, to see | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
Murdoch. We then had... Tessa says in 2003, they wanted to put | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
plurality rules in. You didn't, it was only your backbenchers in the | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
House of Lords who forced that upon you. You have done some rewriting | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
of history as a, it was Australia he flew to, but never mind. -- | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
history yourself. I think events may make the vote below -- | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
irrelevant, but if it is a vote, will the Lib Dems vote against it | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
one last? The real problems we all face is we all know what we want to | :10:06. | :10:14. | |
achieve, the question is how you can do that. The issues to do with | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
the competition arrangements in relation to the takeover are dealt | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
with by the European Commission. The issues to do with fit and | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
proper persons are dealt with an independent regulator, Ofcom. The | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
issues to do with plurality, the range of voices, is in the hands of | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
one person in a quasi judicial role, the Secretary of State. The | :10:33. | :10:38. | |
question is, what can Parliament do that will achieve the end that we | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
and the public want. I understand all that. Just be clear from the | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
Lib Dems, you will split from your coalition partners, if need be, on | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
this issue. We will do what we can, to prevent this merger going ahead, | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
and to all of the inquiries have taken place, if we can do it | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
legally. We can't go round and say other people have been acting | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
illegally... I understand that. If it need be, you will vote with | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
Labour? If the motion is one that delivers what we want and provides | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
a legal route of doing it, that is likely to be... I haven't talked to | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
my parliamentary colleagues yet, we have got to have those discussions, | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
but I imagined that is what we are likely to do. All right. Your | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
leader, Mr Miliband, has taken quite a lead in this and set the | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
pace. Is he not running a huge risk, having Tom Baldwin as his press | :11:37. | :11:46. | |
secretary? Of News International. He was recruited from The Times, as | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
Bob Roberts was recruited from The Mirror. It is a good thing to have | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
as your head of communications, somebody with frontline media | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
experience. The mayor has also been up to quite a few dodgy ways of | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
getting information -- The Mirror has also been. Is it sensible for | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
someone who would like to be Prime Minister to surround themselves | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
with red-top tabloid journalists? Tom Baldwin was not a red-top | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
tabloid journalist. The chap from The Mirror was a. He was a | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
journalist of repeat from The Times. Who has been accused of using | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
someone to break into Lord Ashcroft's bank account. | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
allegation which he has emphatically and categorically | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
denied. So did Andy Coulson. think that this is a very | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
dangerous... If I can say, improper line of questioning. An allegation | :12:38. | :12:43. | |
was made in the newspaper yesterday. Tom Baldwin has flatly denied it, | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
he has denied it to me and to the leader of the Labour Party. We put | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
the same 0.2 the Tories about the employment of Andy Coulson. -- the | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
same point to the Tories. Where does this line of questioning take | :12:55. | :13:00. | |
us? When the truth comes out... are saying that in denying this | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
allegation, Tom Baldwin is not telling the truth. I am saying that | :13:05. | :13:15. | |
:13:15. | :13:18. | ||
Mr Coulson denied many allegations And journalists shouldn't work for | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
government. I have always thought that. It always ends in tears. It | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
ended in tears with Alastair Campbell. The people who should | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
work for government are civil servants. Bernard Ingham was a good | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
press officer. He was a civil servant. We are on one side of the | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
fence, they are on another side. And we should not jump over the | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
fence. It always leads to this kind of mess. I think the whole thing | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
has blown way out of proportion. The Andy Coulson affair was clearly | :13:48. | :13:53. | |
sad, a lot of people are advised Cameron, including myself, don't | :13:53. | :13:57. | |
get a red top editor in your office. I am afraid, I just think they have | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
all got mud on their hands. We are going to have to leave it there. We | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
have run out of time. We asked for someone from the government to talk | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
about this, including from the Department of Culture, Media and | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
Sport, but surprise, surprise, nobody wanted to come on. I don't | :14:14. | :14:20. | |
know why. This afternoon, David Cameron will | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
unveil his long-awaited plan to reform public services. I say long- | :14:23. | :14:26. | |
awaited - in fact, this white paper has been delayed for months because | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
of furious rows within government about the plans. Despite all this, | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
the Prime Minister says he remains committed to transforming the way | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
public services are delivered and ending the "top-downm "take what | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
you're given" culture. So, Anita, will he get his way? | :14:39. | :14:42. | |
Citizen Cameron wants to give "power to the people" with his new | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
public services white paper. In a speech this afternoon, he will say, | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
"The old dogma that Whitehall knows best - it's gone. There will be | :14:48. | :14:55. | |
more freedom, more choice and more local control." The white paper | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
will mean that the state is no longer the default provider for | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
public services. Instead, outside organisations, like charities, | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
community groups and private companies, will be able to bid to | :15:04. | :15:10. | |
run things like local health services, parks and libraries. The | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
plans will also allow personal budgets so individuals can buy | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
their own services. And there will be more payment by results, to | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
encourage markets to develop across the public sector. The white paper | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
was supposed to have been published in February, but the initial plan | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
provoked a huge backlash from the unions, who accused Cameron of | :15:29. | :15:37. | |
driving a Thatcherite-style privatisation agenda. The initial | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
plans also sparked rows within government, between Cameron's | :15:39. | :15:42. | |
policy guru, Steve Hilton, and some senior Conservatives and Lib Dems | :15:42. | :15:52. | |
:15:52. | :15:55. | ||
who had doubts. Andrew. Tessa Jowell, the Shadow Cabinet | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
Office Minister, is still with us and I'm also joined by the | :15:58. | :16:08. | |
:16:08. | :16:10. | ||
Given the difficult birth of this White Paper, will it be stillborn? | :16:10. | :16:14. | |
I do not think so. This creates a blueprint for the way we want | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
public services to work in the future, to create an opportunity | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
for diversity of provision and the people to take responsibility for | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
running their own services. There are two nurses in my constituency | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
who set up a community health partnership and are running a lot | :16:30. | :16:33. | |
of community services in Mid Surrey better than was the case previously. | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
That kind of model offers a blueprint for the way we can | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
continue to deliver public services. But we entrust the poet -- | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
professionals to do it for us. can you assure us that your Lib Dem | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
colleagues in the coalition are 100% behind these plans? Absolutely. | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
We are bringing forward the white paper together this afternoon. It | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
has the endorsement of both coalition partners. So the Lib Dems | :17:01. | :17:06. | |
have not been kicking back in the formation of this White Paper? | :17:06. | :17:10. | |
Lib Dem philosophy has always been about decentralisation. They have | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
always been about local control and devolution. That did not work with | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
health reform. I know what they stand for, but are you telling our | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
viewers today that this comes with the wholehearted endorsement of | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
your Lib Dem coalition partners? Yes, if you look at the things we | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
are doing with the free schools policy and the work programme, the | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
devolution of responsibility of welfare to work to third-party | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
organisations, saying to them, you deliver what works, and we will pay | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
you. Why did it take so long to see the light of day? It is a | :17:45. | :17:51. | |
complicated policy. You want to make sure you get it right. There | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
has been plenty of discussion on that. The two parties have one | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
thing in common, which is a desire to devolve and decentralise, and a | :18:02. | :18:04. | |
belief that the old adage of government knowing best is not | :18:04. | :18:09. | |
quite. Tessa Jowell, your party in government was in favour of | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
competition. Mr Blair used to complain that he was not allowed to | :18:13. | :18:18. | |
do enough devolution. Why have you changed your mind? We have not | :18:18. | :18:26. | |
changed our mind. However, I have not seen the white paper yet. There | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
are three things that concern us about this. Firstly, there may be a | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
lot in the rhetoric on which we can agree. But the test will be in the | :18:38. | :18:43. | |
detail of how this is applied, specifically, perhaps Chris can | :18:43. | :18:49. | |
give us assurances on this, that competition by price will not | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
feature in the White Paper. Not at all? That it will not feature as | :18:56. | :19:04. | |
the defining criteria for decentralising services to third | :19:04. | :19:11. | |
sector organisations. Price is a factor, but so is quality. We look | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
to both the quality of provision, not dictating what it should be, | :19:15. | :19:25. | |
but seeing what people's ideas are, and then looking at price. But the | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
reason the health service reform had to be knocked back was the | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
insistence on competition by price being the driving force for | :19:34. | :19:43. | |
commissioning healthcare. In the health service, you want both | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
quality and price. Within the health service now, some hospitals | :19:47. | :19:50. | |
operate more efficiently and can offer a comparable service at a | :19:50. | :19:57. | |
lower price. We do not want to see a third party commercial | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
organisations coming in and exploiting the health service for | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
profit. And similarly community services? But within the health | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
service, if you have a group of nurses who can take over the | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
community service they operate and deliver it at a lower price, that | :20:13. | :20:22. | |
is a good thing. I had a second question. You have already had two! | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
Let's see what Simon says. It is probably the same thing. I am a | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
fanatical localist and I have read the same document from both parties | :20:31. | :20:40. | |
for year after year. Hazel Blears' White Paper was identical. The nub | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
of it is privatisation, not localisation, and there you have | :20:44. | :20:52. | |
problems. PFI has been a mess. Some of it has worked. Serco do good | :20:52. | :21:00. | |
work running the congestion charge and so on. But other services are | :21:00. | :21:03. | |
not benefited by privatisation. There are two different concepts. | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
In focusing on the cliche power to the people, what does it mean? It | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
does not mean power to local government. It does not mean | :21:14. | :21:19. | |
devolving power to raise taxes locally. It is a vague concept of | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
the community and neighbourhood, which hazel Blears had the concept | :21:25. | :21:31. | |
of, and Tony Blair and Gordon Brown liked it. Let the localist - it | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
does not mean anything. And your third question? My third question | :21:37. | :21:45. | |
is about the stuff that was briefed yesterday, that schools and | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
hospitals, under this new set of proposals, would be allowed to fail. | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
Can you assure us that schools and hospitals will not be allowed to | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
fail because of their commercialisation? Simon is asking | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
what is different. Free schools are something we have already started. | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
That is a radical new departure, saying to parents, if you believe | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
you can run a school better than the school down the road, you can | :22:15. | :22:19. | |
do that. I expect that the free schools to take pupils away from | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
the failing schools if they are good. And will the other school | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
therefore close? I am confident that we will see improvements in | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
standards across the board. But logically, if a failing school | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
comes under pressure from a school that is doing well, that may happen. | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
You have run out of questions. will have my chance later. Both of | :22:44. | :22:52. | |
you should come back again. All this arguing is enough to drive | :22:52. | :22:59. | |
you to drink. That seems to be the case for MPs and their researchers. | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
In the bowels of Parliament, there is a place, a bar called the Sports | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
and Social, where they do not play sports. And sometimes things are | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
anti-social. It is a place where the hard working parliamentary | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
staff can let off a bit of steam. But it seems they might have been | :23:19. | :23:23. | |
overdoing it a bit, and in a bid to stop raucous behaviour, Black Rod, | :23:23. | :23:33. | |
no less, has limited the number of guests allowed in. | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
In the Palace of Westminster, that icon of sober democracy, trouble | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
has been brewing. In Parliament's Central lobby, you get what he | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
expect, the guilt, the grandeur, the statues of past politicians. | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
But right under my feet is a part of hidden Parliament, the Sports | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
and Social bar. And down there, things have been going a little | :23:56. | :24:04. | |
awry. # But all I found was cigarettes | :24:04. | :24:13. | |
and alcohol. The Sports and Social baris in the bowels of the building, | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
behind the trash compared to, to give you an idea of what it is like. | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
It is like an old working man's club. It smells of booze. It has a | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
trophy cabinet and boards telling you who is the darts champion. | :24:26. | :24:32. | |
There are MPs' researchers, about 3000 of them. The rest are staff of | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
the house, maintenance workers, cleaners, catering staff. They make | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
up the largest client base. It is a place where the researchers can go | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
and bring their friends. What went wrong? They became a bit too | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
enthusiastic about bringing their friends in. In the last Parliament, | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
there was a bar where the Tory researchers used to drink. And the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
Sports and Social was whether Labour researchers would drink. | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
of the staff bars was closed down recently, so it was an issue of too | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
many groups of people using the same bar. There was a problem with | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
the researchers having a bit too much to drink, forgetting that | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
their guests were only guests, and they were leaving people without | :25:17. | :25:24. | |
passes to wander around full of drink. Blackwood has ruled only two | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
guests per member of staff on certain nights. There is an urban | :25:28. | :25:33. | |
myth that it is a subsidised bar. It is not. They have lower | :25:33. | :25:39. | |
overheads, but prices are set at market rates. It is important for | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
both researchers and MPs that they have places they can go and relax | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
with colleagues without the public listening over their shoulder. | :25:49. | :25:54. | |
her Black Rod's rules observed, that allows insiders to continue to | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
drink for Britain. As Chris Grayling was leaving, he | :25:59. | :26:05. | |
said, I do not even know where it is. Two people who do know where it | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
is are two Westminster veterans known to have the odd swift half in | :26:09. | :26:13. | |
the parliamentary bars, Labour's Austin Mitchell and Kevin Maguire | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
from the Mirror. Austin Mitchell, what kind of bad behaviour has | :26:17. | :26:26. | |
there been? Very occasional fights. In my time, two MPs fell down the | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
steps going home. One suffered brain damage, and that was | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
noticeable -- not noticeable, of course, in the Commons. One of the | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
Tory whips was something of an alcoholic. We used to get a | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
uproariously drunk. But drinking happens far less now. We do not | :26:47. | :26:57. | |
:26:57. | :26:59. | ||
have all-night sittings any more. And there are more women. Some have | :26:59. | :27:09. | |
:27:09. | :27:10. | ||
died of alcoholism. Allegedly! Kevin, it begs the question, why is | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
there a drinking club in the bowels of Westminster? You are meant to be | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
working. They are supposed to be off duty when they are there. | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
Whether they are is another matter. It is to keep them on site. Do you | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
think pubs want these parliamentary researchers? You get the sense that | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
there is a lot of pressure and they need a place to let off steam. Was | :27:31. | :27:37. | |
it a mistake to close down one of the bars? De new Tory lot are very | :27:37. | :27:46. | |
thirsty. One of them collapsed and could not vote. Allegedly. He was | :27:46. | :27:55. | |
poured into a taxi. I know he did admit it. But it is nothing like it | :27:55. | :27:59. | |
used to be. I do not know why they do not ban drinking altogether. | :27:59. | :28:04. | |
They have banned smoking. A male guest collapsed recently. His wife | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
came to pick him up, and she collapsed. There was a lot of | :28:08. | :28:14. | |
drunkenness. There was less drinking when I arrived at the | :28:14. | :28:21. | |
House of Commons, a long time ago, than there was at the BBC. Nobody | :28:21. | :28:26. | |
drinks now. We have no hospitality here. We did not even give you | :28:26. | :28:32. | |
water today. The main drinking used to be where the journalists went. | :28:32. | :28:35. | |
Tony Blair used to have a whisky and half a bottle of wine, and | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
thought he was becoming an alcoholic. They are sadly out of | :28:39. | :28:49. | |
time. I say thanks to all our guests. | :28:49. | :28:54. |