Browse content similar to 13/07/2011. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good morning and welcome to the Daily Politics, as the Prime | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
Minister prepares to name a judge to lead two inquiries into phone | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
hacking. MPs of all parties unite to urge Rupert Murdoch to drop his | :00:28. | :00:34. | |
bid for BskyB. We'll have the latest. | :00:34. | :00:37. | |
Up to 2,000 rank and file police officers will be descending on | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
Westminster to protest against budget cuts and a pay freeze. But | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
how much has the phone hacking scandal eroded any public sympathy | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
for their position? And what about those issues which | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
usually make the political weather? Could weak growth blow the | :00:51. | :00:57. | |
Government's plans for the economy off course? | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
And is a lack of runways in the South East putting the brakes on | :01:00. | :01:10. | |
:01:10. | :01:12. | ||
And before we all pack off on our hols, with us for the duration for | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
the this last Daily Politics of the summer is the man who'll be getting | :01:15. | :01:20. | |
us there, Transport Secretary, Phillip Hammond. And hitching up | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
her Bailey Pegasus 514 is former Labour Minister and keen caravaner, | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
:01:33. | :01:34. | ||
Margaret Beckett. I thought that was a motorbike! | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
The Prime Minister will attempt to get on the front foot over the | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
phone hacking scandal. He'll be making a statement to MPs just | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
after Prime Minister's Questions, on how the inquiry into phone | :01:43. | :01:53. | |
:01:53. | :01:53. | ||
hacking will be set up. That will be just after 12:30pm. | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
And then later today, MPs will support en masse a Labour motion | :01:56. | :02:03. | |
calling on Rupert Murdoch's News Corp to abandon its bid for BskyB. | :02:03. | :02:13. | |
:02:13. | :02:15. | ||
That will probably be in the early evening. If there is a vote. There | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
will be about a three-hour debate. The government are having to run | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
fast to keep up with public opinion and the opposition, isn't it? | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
are very clear where public opinion is, and what our own feelings are. | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
The government, unlike the opposition, and to some extent the | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
media, is constrained by what the law requires it to do, what the | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
legal processes are. We are now in a position, because Rupert Murdoch | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
withdrew the assurances he had given around the BSkyB bid, we are | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
in a position to refer that to the Competition Commission and that has | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
been done. You will vote for the Labour motion tonight? If there is | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
a vote, absolutely. I suspect all Members of Parliament will agree on | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
this and nobody will be willing to shout no, and therefore it will go | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
through by unanimity. That is by acclamation, but it doesn't count | :03:08. | :03:13. | |
the votes. If you want to let Mr Murdoch know what our parliament | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
really thinks of him, and his desire to get the rest of BSkyB, | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
shouldn't you count the votes? think it is a really interesting | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
question that you have put your finger on. There won't be anybody | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
who wants to say, by shouting no, that there will be a vote. | :03:29. | :03:35. | |
don't you shout no? Thanks! not? It would be a matter of | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
twisting somebody's arm. People will be discussing whether that is | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
the best way to go, or whether to say, there is so much unanimity, | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
nobody wants to go, might be an even more powerful message -- | :03:47. | :03:51. | |
nobody wants to vote. The premise that has changed his tune several | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
times, it took him a while to agree to having a judge lead inquiry. It | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
was only when the story became too horrific to ignore that he agreed | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
on that. He initially told the BBC he would do the debate tonight, | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
then he said he wouldn't. He doesn't really know what he is | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
doing. The Prime Minister said very clearly from the outset, there | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
would have to be a judge Legg inquiry, he made that very clear | :04:14. | :04:19. | |
last week. Excuse me, he made it clear last week but there have been | :04:19. | :04:22. | |
calls for an inquiry long before last week. Once the story started | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
to break, the Prime Minister was very clear there would have to be a | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
judge lead inquiry. The question tonight, won the debate today, is | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
about how best for everybody to have their say. -- on the debate. | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
The Prime Minister will make a statement and that is the proper | :04:39. | :04:41. | |
way for prime ministers to set out the Government's plans. There will | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
then be a debate which is primarily a chance for Parliament to have its | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
say, for backbenchers to have its say. Many more speakers have put | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
their names forward than will be able to speak, so I don't think it | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
will be helpful for a prime minister to again repeat what he | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
has already said in his statement, chewing up time when backbenchers | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
could be debating this issue. Miliband is having a bit of a field | :05:05. | :05:09. | |
day. Most commentators think he has set the pace. He has led on this, | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
completely. It is not through courage, is it? He only turned on | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
Mr Murdoch after he was already doubtful but two weeks ago, he was | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
paying obeisance at Mr Murdoch's summer party. He never raised any | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
of that. He is kicking Mr Murdoch because he is not powerful. I have | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
heard you say enough things about the Murdoch empire and about Rupert | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
Murdoch's attitude to things. I thought that when Ed came out and | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
said what he did about the BSkyB bid and the hacking, I thought it | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
was a classic Yes Minister moment. You could hear Sir Humphrey in the | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
background going, that is very brave. It was. It would have been | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
braver to do it too was three years ago. Some of us were critical of Mr | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
Murdoch when he had the power to strike back. Your leader has been | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
critical now he has not got the power to strike back for a Ed was | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
not the leader two or three years ago, he is now. He stepped forward | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
when it was not clear how this was going to go. It was a very bold | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
thing that he did and everybody else has had to follow. If he | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
hadn't stepped forward, I doubt we would be in the position we are in | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
today. What do you say to that? If Mr Miliband hadn't set the pace, | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
even though the going was Elia -- was easier, we wouldn't be here | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
today. I don't think this is getting us anywhere. Whether it is | :06:33. | :06:38. | |
a lot, the viewers is -- will decide, what is the answer? I think | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
the viewers will have decided, all politicians were too close to the | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
Murdoch empire. We know the previous Labour administration were | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
very close. David Cameron has been clear, he now sees that we were too | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
close to the Murdoch empire, and we all now need to distance ourselves | :06:54. | :06:58. | |
from the media. Would you like to answer this question or have 30 | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
seconds silence to contemplate? When Gordon Brown says, he never | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
had a good relationship with News International. I think that is | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
probably right, actually. Why did he go to Rebekah Wade's wedding? | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
Let me give you a slightly different example. I have heard | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
repeatedly, look how Tony Blair flew to Australia. I have always | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
thought that was an issue that should be turned on its head. If | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
you have an invitation to go to something and you say, certainly | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
not, when you are in a position of being a political leader, whatever | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
your party, you are uttering a deliberate public snub. Why did Mrs | :07:40. | :07:44. | |
Brown invite Rebekah Wade to Chequers for a sleep over? Well... | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
That sentence, never had a good relationship, cannot stand. He is | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
talking about with News International, not individual | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
journalists. He has said he had huge respect for Rupert Murdoch. | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
Rupert Murdoch was at Chequers over the weekend that Gordon Brown made | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
the decision to pull the 2007 election. If that isn't indicative | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
of the closeness of the relationship, I don't know what is. | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
Sometimes, 30 seconds silence works well stop lots of people go to | :08:12. | :08:18. | |
up to 2,000 police officers are descending on Westminster this | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
lunchtime. No, they're not all being questioned by MPs, but | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
protesting at cuts to the police and a Government imposed pay freeze. | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
I'm joined from their day of action by Simon Reed, who's vice-chairman | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
of the Police Federation, who represent rank and file police | :08:29. | :08:37. | |
officers. Thank you for taking time out for us. I wonder, in the light | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
of this tacking scandal, how much it has heard your cause. Your | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
reputation as the police is not flying very high -- hurt your cause. | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
There are three profession to have been harmed by this. Journalists, | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
politicians, police officers. We have a very few number of reach. I | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
hear what you are saying, -- of each. I think you will find it is a | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
very few number at the moment. It affects all three professions are. | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
Do you know of any police officers who have taken money from | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
journalists? No, I don't, not at all. Are you surprised that the | :09:15. | :09:23. | |
practice went on? Yes, I am surprised. I imagine that | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
yourselves as journalists are surprised, and politicians are | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
surprised at their own professions. We are where we are. We have | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
investigations going on. We can't speculate, we have to let those | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
inquiries happen and see what outcomes they are. I won't ask you | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
to speculate but react. Maybe you saw Andy Hayman, you could not have | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
avoided hearing his submissions to the select committee. Were you a | :09:47. | :09:54. | |
bit embarrassed by the kind of South we have certain views about | :09:54. | :10:00. | |
what was said by all of them. are those views? We would love you | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
to share them with us. What did you make of what you heard senior | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
police officers saying to the select committee? Some of us were | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
quite surprised at how inadequate some of the responses were. We have | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
also got to accept, they are speaking from memory, they don't | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
have notes, they have left the service. We have to put it in | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
context. The majority of people I have spoken to were surprised at | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
how poor Andy Hayman was. Let's talk about the protest today. | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
Everybody is facing cuts, surely the police have got to take their | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
fair share as well? Indeed, we have always accepted that. We said from | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
a year ago, the 12% cut that Her Majesty's Inspectorate was saying | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
is possible over four years, we accepted that, and we were prepared | :10:45. | :10:51. | |
to help the government to do the 12% cut. But we have seen 20%, an | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
additional �1 billion out of policing. That is what our concerns | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
are. I wonder if it is wise to take such an aggressive stance. You are | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
meant to be neutral but taking a very aggressive stance when it | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
comes to the government. During a Police Federation conference in May, | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
Theresa May had to sit through a video talking about cuts, and you | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
had the music from the Kaiser Chiefs's I predict a riot, it is | :11:14. | :11:20. | |
hardly a neutral stance. Why would it be a neutral stance? We work in | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
a vacation we are proud to be part of. We know what is happening in | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
terms of policing and what the cuts will mean. We know that there is an | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
issue of crime and public safety. We need to get our message across, | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
sometimes we do it in a robust way. We don't make any apologies for how | :11:36. | :11:44. | |
Philip Hammond, they don't like you very much, and it is an odd and | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
peculiar situation for a Conservative minister to be in, | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
when you hear a policeman having such antipathy towards a | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
Conservative-led coalition government. I should start by | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
saying, we do like them, are great admirers and respecters of the | :11:58. | :12:04. | |
police. They don't feel like to, they feel you are cutting service | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
to the bone for us that they have to change, as other parts of the | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
public service have to change. are talking about a 14% real terms | :12:12. | :12:20. | |
change in police funding -- real- terms cut. We are talking about a | :12:20. | :12:26. | |
service which still has some very considerable changes that it can | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
make, in labour practices, in the amount of overtime used, that will | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
make it more efficient and effective. Get more police officers | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
out onto the front line and deliver a better service to the public. | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
There is some fog over how many cuts will go into front line | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
services and there was a leaked memo to the Guardian, predicting a | :12:48. | :12:57. | |
:12:58. | :13:04. | ||
That is assuming there would be no contribution from local precepts. | :13:04. | :13:10. | |
On the wider issue, how has the image of the police force been | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
damaged by hack date, or as others are saying, everything gate. I hope | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
that the public are drawing a distinction between the bobby on | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
the beat, and the small Quatre of officers that appear to be | :13:27. | :13:33. | |
implicated in this kind of activity. I don't think this will dent public | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
confidence in their local police forces, who they see as | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
tremendously important and part of their community. Are there a few | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
rotten apples or is this endemic? think we are talking about rotten M | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
-- rotten apples. I am sure the policeman hate that when someone is | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
pulling out with the police, they will throw this in their face. -- | :13:55. | :14:01. | |
falling out. I also agree that most people won't think it is the police | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
they deal with day-to-day. One of the most excellent things that has | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
come out of our period in office is that we have this neighbourhood... | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
People know the local police who on the beach, they have their mobile | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
numbers and so on. They are not going to put those people in the | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
same category. On the of it face of it, some good | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
news on the economy this morning, with unemployment falling by some | :14:22. | :14:32. | |
26,000. That is a measure which most economists -- economists think | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
is the most accurate way of measuring unemployment. But at the | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
same time, the number claiming Job Seekers' Allowance increased by | :14:39. | :14:41. | |
almost the same amount and the Employment Minister, Chris Grayling, | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
warned that the "road to recovery would be choppy." It's it may be | :14:45. | :14:55. | |
:14:55. | :14:58. | ||
because of the government's welfare Questions about the growth of the | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
economy, rather than unemployment or prices, are now taking centre | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
stage. If there isn't growth, it could wash away the Chancellor's | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
plans for reducing the deficit and getting the economy going. Anita | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
has the details. Yes, just as Andrew is getting | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
ready to hit Magaluf for the summer, the Chancellor of the Exchequer is | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
also off to the seaside. But the ominous waves on the horizon | :15:21. | :15:28. | |
threaten to destroy all his pretty work of rebuilding the economy. | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
First, there's the growth problem. Last November, the Office for | :15:31. | :15:37. | |
Budget Responsibility said growth for 2011 would be 2.1%. In March, | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
they revised this down to 1.7%. But the average independent forecast | :15:41. | :15:48. | |
has now fallen to 1.5%, and shows no sign of stopping there. And | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
looking at the last three months, the NIESR think tank thinks the | :15:51. | :15:59. | |
economy grew by just 0.1%. The Chancellor will get the official | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
figure on 26 July, but with the economy stagnating over the | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
previous six months, that would mean growth of just 0.1% in nine | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
months - raising questions over how the Government can possibly cut the | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
deficit. And the Chancellor will also be concerned about | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
manufacturing. The accountancy firm BDO's optimism index has fallen by | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
26 points from February to June. The problems in UK manufacturing | :16:22. | :16:23. | |
have become synonymous with the Derby-based train-builder, | :16:23. | :16:31. | |
Bombardier. They have said they will shed 1,400 jobs after missing | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
out on the Thameslink contract. Today, union leaders met with the | :16:36. | :16:46. | |
:16:46. | :16:51. | ||
Transport Secretary, Philip Hammond, Philip Hammond, starting with | :16:51. | :16:57. | |
Bombardier, on how did the meeting go? A meeting with the unions was | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
primarily to discuss the reform agenda and the McNulty report. They | :17:01. | :17:08. | |
asked if they could raise the Bombardier issue. I answered their | :17:08. | :17:16. | |
questions. So there is no joy? procurement carried out was carried | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
out properly within the narrow confines of what was set out in the | :17:22. | :17:27. | |
procurement that Labour started in 2008. I did not have, and it does | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
not matter how many opposition politicians assert that I did have, | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
I did not have the flexibility to award... Just for clarification, | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
the union meeting this morning has changed nothing as far as the | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
contract is concerned? That is right. I wanted to talk with the | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
unions about how I think, going forward, we can and must look at | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
the way that we procure these big public contracts, to make sure that | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
we give British business a fair chance. Margaret Beckett, my right | :18:00. | :18:06. | |
in thinking that Bombardier is inure constituency? It is a big | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
issue for the British economy and a big issue for your area, given the | :18:09. | :18:17. | |
jobs and the skills involved. The Government's case is that the way | :18:17. | :18:20. | |
in which the contract was constructed under the Labour | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
government meant that it was a narrow contract and they could not | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
take wider considerations into account, and they had to give it to | :18:30. | :18:36. | |
Siemens in Germany. That is their case. But as Philip is well aware, | :18:36. | :18:40. | |
there are quite a number of questions around that argument. | :18:40. | :18:48. | |
From my point of view, I do not agree that this was done and dusted, | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
cut-and-dried and there was no choice. Why not? Partly because it | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
appears that the argument is that a lot of this was because of the | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
finance. Siemens is now a bank. I have only recently realised this. | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
It was able to put its balance sheet of behind this order and that | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
may, rather than the quality of the trains, have been the thing that | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
caused it. Was it? It was a factor. One of the things I have said to | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
Margaret and publicly is that I do not think the way the procurement | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
was structured was most helpful. Why should Siemens being a bank | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
affect the decision? Because Siemens is a company with a very | :19:32. | :19:35. | |
strong credit rating. It has a massive balance-sheet and it is | :19:35. | :19:41. | |
able to borrow money more cheaply than Bombardier. Is that not an | :19:41. | :19:46. | |
unfair situation? The contract was structured as a requirement for | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
somebody to build the trains, or one and finance them over 30 years. | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
The cost of financing was part of the structure. I am not blaming | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
Labour politicians. I think this is about a culture in the public | :20:01. | :20:07. | |
sector,... You don't blame them but to make it clear that the hands -- | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
your hands were tied, is that not right? We do not think it is. | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
is what he is saying. I understand that. Philip is in the position all | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
ministers are run. He is being given information by civil servants. | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
If you look at the tender as it was drawn up, you can argue that was a | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
poor process, and I agree we need a different one for the future, but | :20:29. | :20:37. | |
within that, the Department for Transport kept explicitly the | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
decision to handle financing separately. They had two | :20:40. | :20:46. | |
opportunities to actually trigger that separate decision. Let me | :20:46. | :20:50. | |
answer that. I have specifically looked at this issue. The ability | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
for asked to intervene is only at the preferred bidder stage. We | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
could say to Siemens that having appointed the preferred bidder, we | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
do not like the package and we want to nominate banks to provide 50% of | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
the financing. But that would not run to the preferred bidder status. | :21:06. | :21:13. | |
I have looked at this. Certainly, it is a tragedy for the people at | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
bomb RDA. A tragedy we are trying to avert. -- Bombardier. Let me | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
look at the economy. Economic data out this week. If you look at what | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
is happening in the Eurozone, the reason why the right these massive | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
downgrades on the debt of Greece, Portugal and Ireland, and now Italy | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
in trouble too, they have this massive debt but there are | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
economies are barely growing. Some are actually declining, so the | :21:44. | :21:47. | |
markets have concluded that they will not make the money to be able | :21:47. | :21:52. | |
to pay back the debt. Britain has Floodline for six months, and a | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
quarter that has just ended looks like it is going to be weak. | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
Minister, are we not in danger of ending up in the same position? -- | :22:02. | :22:08. | |
Britain has a flat wind. There are two major differences. First of all, | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
we are not in the Eurozone. We are able to adjust the value of our | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
currency for. We have done that already. It is already down 25%. | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
may happen again. You think it should go more? We do not make | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
predictions on the exchange rate but Britain has a currency. The | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
exchange rate can change to reflect the reality we are in. Greece, | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
Ireland, Portugal, Italy, Spain do not. They are locked into a fixed | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
exchange rate mechanism. The second point is that we have taken clear | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
and decisive action to resolve the problems in the public finances in | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
a way that the markets find satisfactory. Right now, Britain | :22:53. | :22:59. | |
has a level debt which is similar to Portugal's in relation to GDP, | :22:59. | :23:03. | |
yet we have interest rates very similar to Germany's. The market | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
has given Britain the benefit of the doubt because they have seen | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
that we have a credible plan and that we are determined to deliver | :23:09. | :23:15. | |
it. If we waver in that determination, then the markets | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
will start to struggle. So the position is there is still no Plan | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
B. Regardless of the Kroll problems, what the minister says about the | :23:24. | :23:31. | |
markets have been sunk confidence in the deficit reduction plan, | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
based at bended judgment in the election campaign. -- they | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
suspended judgement. They suspended judgment to wait until the campaign | :23:39. | :23:47. | |
was over. The race no alternative to deficit reduction. Everybody | :23:47. | :23:54. | |
agrees that there is no alternative. But by their scale? We do not | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
accept that. Then you could end up in trouble. Well, if you look at | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
sales of long-term gilts before the election, it was perfectly clear. | :24:02. | :24:06. | |
Every time I hear this conversation about George Osborne, I think he | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
was hoisted by his own petard. He was very responsible and | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
competition -- in opposition. All that rubbish about us being in the | :24:14. | :24:19. | |
same position as Greece, it was not true, but if the markets start to | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
believe it, we will all suffer. markets would have believed George | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
Osborne rather than Gordon Brown, who would have thought? Last night, | :24:28. | :24:38. | |
:24:38. | :24:39. | ||
some lucky person here in the UK hit the jackpot. They did not win a | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
Daily Politics mug, but they would have wanted to. They won �161 | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
million on the EuroMillions lottery. Isn't it good to live in a country | :24:50. | :24:58. | |
where effort and hard work and application gets you on in society? | :24:58. | :25:08. | |
:25:08. | :25:09. | ||
There are, however, some things which money cannot buy. | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
Unless you go on eBay! I knew she was going to say that! To be in | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
with a chance of winning, he will have to enter our Guess The Year | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
competition. We will remind you how in just a | :25:21. | :25:31. | |
:25:31. | :25:40. | ||
moment. First, can you remember We hope to create a shield against | :25:40. | :25:50. | |
:25:50. | :25:55. | ||
aggression, and the fear of We shall also show that we are not | :25:55. | :26:05. | |
:26:05. | :26:13. | ||
just the nation of shopkeepers. -- In these 49 cars is the heart of | :26:13. | :26:23. | |
:26:23. | :26:49. | ||
A flurry of guesses here. To be in with a chance of winning, just send | :26:49. | :26:57. | |
your answer to our special e-mail address: Full terms and conditions | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
on our website. I think it was a very important | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
year. Very important in my household. A very, very important | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
here. Coming up to midday, Big Ben behind | :27:13. | :27:16. | |
us. It can only mean one thing, Prime Minister's Questions is on | :27:16. | :27:21. | |
its way. It is the final PMQs of the summer season. There will be no | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
more until September, which means that we will not be seen Nick | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
Robinson at this time of the day, but we do today. We were all | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
assuming that PMQs will be dominated by the Murdoch scandal, | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
but it does not end there. At 12:30pm, the Prime Minister will | :27:38. | :27:44. | |
stand up again and tell us? We will get a statement from him and, in a | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
sense, it battle for the control of the agenda. Ed Miliband has led the | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
way with the motion that we will see afterwards, emotion which | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
everyone will support. The Prime Minister is desperate. It looks | :27:57. | :28:00. | |
like he, and not a Labour leader, is in the driving seat. He will | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
announce the name of the judge who will lead this inquiry. It will be | :28:05. | :28:15. | |
:28:15. | :28:15. | ||
one, not two inquiries. Two faces. The new approach to transparency in | :28:15. | :28:20. | |
Minister's meetings with media moguls. At the moment, you only get | :28:20. | :28:23. | |
that information if they have met on official premises but from now | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
on, I think we will get something that suggests that even a meeting | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
in the Prime Minister's flat for his constituency or a form of | :28:32. | :28:39. | |
meeting at a party will be revealed publicly. That will be interesting. | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
In Piers Morgan's diaries, it came out that the Prime Minister, Mr | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
Blair at the time, had seen the editor of the miniature -- the | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
editor of the male I think 65 times, which made a lot of people wonder, | :28:51. | :28:56. | |
why are you seeing Piers Morgan 65 times? Is that has to become public, | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
you will think about that. Not only that, but how will journalism work | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
if every meeting asked to be made public? Things are said | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
confidentially to journalists. What I do not know is whether there will | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
be a distinction between people who control newspaper groups or own a | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
newspaper groups and the journalists. The reason the Prime | :29:16. | :29:18. | |
Minister did not spell this out is because instantly civil servants | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
pointed out these problems, say if you see the economics editor, if | :29:25. | :29:31. | |
you're the Chancellor, and you reveal that you had been meeting... | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
You were after reveal that you saw the Chancellor of the day before, | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
it is quite easy to work out where the story came from. Exactly. It is | :29:41. | :29:47. | |
likely to be limited to executives but the trick that says, well, we | :29:47. | :29:51. | |
met at a party or a country house, I think they will have to find a | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
way of saying that that is dealt with as well. The political contest, | :29:55. | :29:59. | |
who is in the driving seat? The truth is it is Ed Miliband. He will | :29:59. | :30:04. | |
want to make questions about David Cameron. I expect we will see the | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
question saying, what did you know and when about Andy Coulson? This | :30:09. | :30:14. | |
business of two inquiries, two for the price of one, there is going to | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
be an inquiry... I will have to hold that question because we can | :30:19. | :30:27. | |
go straight over to Prime I had meetings with ministerial | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
colleagues and others ant in addition to to my duties, I will | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
have further such meetings today. Secretly deleting voice mails left | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
for a missing teenager, buying the silence of public figures who would | :30:40. | :30:43. | |
incriminate your business, and publishing confidential medical | :30:43. | :30:47. | |
details of a disabled child who just happens to have a famous | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
father. I ask the Prime Minister, I any of these the actions of a fit | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
and proper person? My honourable friend makes an extremely powerful | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
point in a powerful way. We have to be clear about what is happening | :31:01. | :31:08. | |
here. There is a firestorm that is engulfing parts of the media, parts | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
of the police, and our political system's ability to respond. What | :31:13. | :31:17. | |
we must do, in the coming days and weeks, is think of the victims, | :31:17. | :31:21. | |
like the Milly Dowler family, who are watching this today, and make | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
doubly sure we get to the bottom of what happened and prosecute those | :31:25. | :31:35. | |
:31:35. | :31:36. | ||
Mr Speaker, yesterday, I met the family of Milly Dowler, who have | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
shown incredible bravery and strength in speaking out about what | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
happened to them, the hacking of their daughter's phone, and their | :31:45. | :31:49. | |
terrible treatment at the hands of the News of the World. I am sure | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
the whole House will want to pay tribute to their courage and | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
bravery. Does the Prime Minister now agree with me that it is an | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
insult to the family, that Rebekah Brooks, who was editor of the News | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
of the World at the time, is still in her post at News International? | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
I made very clear, she was right to resign, that resignation should | :32:09. | :32:15. | |
have been accepted. There needs to be root and branch change at this | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
entire organisation. I think it is now becoming increasingly clear | :32:18. | :32:24. | |
that while everybody, to start with, wanted to separate what was | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
happening at News International and what is happening with BSkyB, that | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
is simply not possible. What has happened at this company is | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
disgraceful, it has got to be addressed at every level and they | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
should stop thinking about mergers when they have got to sort out the | :32:38. | :32:44. | |
mess they have created. Mr Speaker, I it thanked the Prime Minister for | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
that answer and he is right to take the position that Rebekah Brooks | :32:47. | :32:51. | |
should go. When such a serious cloud hangs over at News | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
Corporation, and when the more systematic pattern of deceit we | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
have seen, does he agree with me, and he clearly does, that it will | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
be quite wrong for them to expand their stake in the British media. | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
Does he further agree that if the House of Commons speaks with one | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
voice today, and I hope he will come to the debate, that Rupert | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
Murdoch should drop his bid for BSkyB, should recognise the world | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
has changed, and he should listen to this House of Commons. I agree | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
with what the right honourable gentleman said and I think it is | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
good that the House of Commons is going to speak with one voice. As | :33:29. | :33:34. | |
he knows, the government has a job to do, to act at all times within | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
the law. My right honourable friend, the Culture Secretary, has to obey | :33:38. | :33:43. | |
every aspect of the law, laws that were on the whole put in place by | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
the last government. Yes, as the honourable member says, we should | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
look at amending the laws. We should make sure the fit and proper | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
test is right, we should make sure the competition and Enterprise acts | :33:55. | :34:01. | |
are right. I think it is perfectly acceptable, perfectly -- to obey | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
the law as a government but to send a message that this business has | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
got to stop the business of mergers and get on with cleaning its | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
stables will stop I look forward to debating these issues with the | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
Leader of the House, who will be speaking for the government later | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
in the debate. I know he is making a statement shortly about the | :34:23. | :34:27. | |
inquiry, but can he confirm something we agreed last night? | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
That we need to make sure we get to the bottom not just of what | :34:30. | :34:35. | |
happened at our newspapers, but also of the relationships between | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
politicians and the press. Does he agree with me that if we expect | :34:39. | :34:43. | |
editors and members of the press to give evidence under oath, so should | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
current and past politicians? agree with that. On this issue of | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
the debate, we are debating now, and that is right. We will have a | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
statement in the House of Commons. I will stand here and answer | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
questions from as many Members of Parliament as want to ask them. I | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
think we should focus on the substance. As the Leader of the | :35:04. | :35:07. | |
Opposition said, we had an excellent meeting last night, we | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
discussed the nature of the inquiry that need to take place, we discuss | :35:11. | :35:15. | |
the terms of reference. I send those to his office this morning, | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
we have had some amendments, we are happy to accept those amendments. | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
They will still be draft terms of reference and I want to hear what | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
the Dowler family and others have to say, so we can move ahead in a | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
way that takes the whole country with us, as we deal with this | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
problem. I also think, if we are going to say to the police, you | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
must be more transparent and cut out corruption, if we are going to | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
say to the media, you must be more transparent and cut out malpractice, | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
yes, the relationship between politicians and the media has | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
changed and we must be more transparent as well, about meetings, | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
particularly with executives, editors and proprietors. I will be | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
setting out proposals for precisely that in a minute or two. I want to | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
thank the Prime Minister for those answers and they answers the whole | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
country will have wanted to hear. Can I also ask him to clear up one | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
specific issue. It has now been confirmed that his chief of staff | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
and his director of strategy were given specific information before | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
the general election by the Guardian newspaper. The information | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
showed that while he was editing the News of the World, Andy Coulson | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
had hired Jonathan Rhys, a man jailed for seven years for a | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
criminal conspiracy, and who made payments to police on behalf of the | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
News of the World. Can the Prime Minister tell us what happened to | :36:33. | :36:40. | |
that significant information that was given to his chief-of-staff. | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
would like to answer this in full and I need to give a very full | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
answer. All these questions relate to the fact I hired a tabloid | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
editor. I did so on the basis of assurances he gave me, that he did | :36:52. | :36:54. | |
not know about the phone hacking and he was not involved in | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
criminality. He gave those same assurances to the police, a select | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
committee of this house, and under oath to a court of law. If it turns | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
out he lied, it won't just be that he shouldn't have been in | :37:06. | :37:10. | |
government, it will be that he should be prosecuted. But I do | :37:10. | :37:14. | |
believe that we must be to the principle that you are innocent | :37:14. | :37:21. | |
until proven guilty. Let me deal directly about the information | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
given to our office by figures from the Guardian newspaper in February | :37:24. | :37:30. | |
last year. This information was not passed on to me. Let me be clear, | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
this was not some secret stash of information. Almost all of it was | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
published in The Guardian in February 2010, at the same time my | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
office was approached. It contained no allegations directly linking | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
Andy Coulson to illegal behaviour, it did not shed any further light | :37:47. | :37:52. | |
on the issue of phone hacking. It was not drawn to my attention by my | :37:52. | :37:58. | |
office. What is more... I met the editor of The Guardian the very | :37:58. | :38:03. | |
next month and he didn't raise it with me once. I met him a year | :38:03. | :38:07. | |
later, he didn't raise its them either. I would ask, if this | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
information is soap significant, why have I not been asked one | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
question about it at a press conference, or in this house? The | :38:17. | :38:22. | |
reason why, Mr Speaker, it didn't add anything to the assurances that | :38:22. | :38:27. | |
I was given. Let me say once more, if I was like to, if the police | :38:27. | :38:31. | |
were lied to, if the select committee was lighted, it will be a | :38:31. | :38:41. | |
:38:41. | :38:47. | ||
matter of deep regret and a matter Order, order. Any body might think | :38:47. | :38:54. | |
that there is orchestrated Nye's. Order! Order! The house will come | :38:54. | :39:00. | |
to order. -- orchestrated noise. These exchanges will continue in an | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
orderly way. Mr Ed Miliband. Speaker, the Prime Minister has | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
made a very important admission. He has admitted that his chief of | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
staff was given information before the general election, that Andy | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
Coulson had hired a man jailed for seven years for a criminal | :39:19. | :39:25. | |
conspiracy, who made payments to the police on behalf of the News of | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
the World. This evidence casts serious doubt on Mr Coulson's | :39:31. | :39:34. | |
assurances that the phone hacking over which he resigned was an | :39:34. | :39:40. | |
isolated example of illegal activity. The Prime Minister says | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
his chief of staff did not pass on this very serious information. Can | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
he now tell us what information he proposes to take against his cheek | :39:48. | :39:55. | |
of staff? -- is chief of staff. have given the fullest possible | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
answer I could to the honourable gentleman. He can ask questions | :39:59. | :40:09. | |
:40:09. | :40:12. | ||
about Andy Coulson. I can ask He can ask questions about my | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
private office. I can ask questions about Damien McBride. Do you know | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
what, Mr Speaker? I think the public, and the victims of this | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
appalling scandal, want us to rise above this and deal with the | :40:27. | :40:37. | |
problems that this country faces? Mr Speaker, he just doesn't get it. | :40:37. | :40:47. | |
:40:47. | :40:51. | ||
I say this to the Prime Minister. He was warned by the Deputy Prime | :40:51. | :40:57. | |
Minister about hiring Andy Coulson. He was warned by Lord Ashdown about | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
hiring Andy Coulson. He has now admitted in the House of Commons | :41:02. | :41:08. | |
today that his chief of staff was given complete evidence which | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
contradicted Andy Coulson's previous account. The Prime | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
Minister must now publish the fullest account of all the | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
information that was provided, and what he did, and why those warnings | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
went unheeded. What he should do most of all, he should apologise | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
for the catastrophic error of judgment he made in hiring Andy | :41:28. | :41:35. | |
Coulson. I am afraid, Mr Speaker, the person who is not getting it is | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
now the Leader of the Opposition. What the public want us to do is | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
address this firestorm. They want us to sort out bad practices at the | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
media, they want us to fix the corruption in the police, they want | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
a proper public inquiry, and they are entitled to ask, when these | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
problems went on for so long, for so many years, what was it that | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
happened in the last decade? When was the police investigation that | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
didn't work? Where was the public inquiry over the last 10 years? We | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
have now got a full un police investigation that will see proper | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
prosecutions and I hope, proper convictions. We will have a proper | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
inquiry, run by the judge, to get to the bottom of this issue. That | :42:20. | :42:27. | |
is the leadership I am determined to provide. Order! Order! Order! Or | :42:27. | :42:37. | |
:42:37. | :42:41. | ||
I say to the Children's Minister, tried to calm down, and behave like | :42:41. | :42:46. | |
an adult. If you can't, if it is beyond you, leave the chamber, it | :42:46. | :42:51. | |
get out, we will marriage without due. Mr David Ward -- we will | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
manage without you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. Order, order. This is | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
intolerable behaviour as far as the public... It is not fund it. Only | :43:03. | :43:10. | |
in your mind, Mr Lawton, is it funny. It is disgraceful. Mr David | :43:10. | :43:17. | |
Ward. Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. In a case of the pot | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
calling the kettle black, if we could have a pantomime interval for | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
a moment. Is the Prime Minister aware that there are young people | :43:24. | :43:31. | |
in Bradford being quoted, without convictions or claims, �53,000 to | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
insure their first car. These ridiculous premiums are being | :43:36. | :43:45. | |
driven by insurance companies selling fresh details of personal | :43:45. | :43:52. | |
injuries. He my honourable friend is making a very good point about | :43:52. | :43:56. | |
the problem of referral fees, that are driving up the cost of | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
insurance for many people. right honourable gentleman, the | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
Member for Blackburn, has made very powerful points about this. There | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
was a report to the government calling for refer all fees to be | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
banned. I am very sympathetic to this, the Justice Secretary is as | :44:11. | :44:18. | |
well, and we hope to make progress. Will the Prime Minister, if asked, | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
give evidence to the judge lead public inquiry that he is setting | :44:22. | :44:28. | |
up today? Of course. The point about the inquiry, which I will be | :44:28. | :44:30. | |
announcing in a moment or two, it will be judged lead, it will take | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
its powers from the inquiries Act, it will be able to call people | :44:34. | :44:40. | |
under oath. His there is the issue of police corruption, the issue of | :44:40. | :44:45. | |
what happened at the media, and questions for politicians, past, | :44:45. | :44:55. | |
:44:55. | :44:55. | ||
My constituents are increasingly concerned about the deepening | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
problems in the Eurozone. Will the Prime Minister reassure me that he | :44:59. | :45:05. | |
is doing everything he can to keep us out of it and to urge the | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
Eurozone to Act? I think my Honourable Friend his right. We | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
have to stay out of the Eurozone. A think being a member of the Euro | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
would take away the flexibility we currently have, but we have to | :45:18. | :45:23. | |
remember that 40% of our exports go to Eurozone countries, so we have | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
to make constructive suggestions about stress tests for their banks, | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
backed up with the recapitalisation involving the private sector, and | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
earning fiscal credibility through concrete action to reduce excessive | :45:36. | :45:39. | |
deficits. Basically, Eurozone countries have to recognise that | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
they have got to do more together and faster. They have to get ahead | :45:43. | :45:50. | |
of the market, rather than responding to the next crisis. | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
Ashdown said he warned Number Ten last year of the terrible damage | :45:55. | :46:00. | |
that it would suffer if Andy Coulson was appointed. Can the | :46:00. | :46:06. | |
Prime Minister see how precisely he reacted to this powerful warning? | :46:06. | :46:11. | |
The point I made before, of course, the decision to employ a tabloid | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
editor meant that there were a number of people who said it was | :46:14. | :46:19. | |
not a good idea, particularly when that tabloid editor had been at the | :46:19. | :46:22. | |
News of the World when bad things had happened. The decision I made | :46:22. | :46:26. | |
was to accept the assurances he gave me. As I have said, those | :46:26. | :46:30. | |
assurances were given to the police, to a Select Committee and the court | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
of law. If I or others were like two, that will be a matter of deep | :46:34. | :46:39. | |
regret. We must make sure that we judge people at innocent -- as | :46:39. | :46:45. | |
innocent until proven guilty. week I received another e-mail from | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
a constituent regarding Meckel and cable theft, although this time it | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
told me of an elderly lady who was at home and unable to raise the | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
alarm because she had had a fall and the cables from the village had | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
been stolen for the second time in as many weeks. This is a growing | :47:01. | :47:06. | |
problem. The legislation relating to this dates back to 1964, please | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
can we have a review to ensure that those scrap-metal dealers to accept | :47:11. | :47:13. | |
the Still to come: Will are prevented from doing so and | :47:13. | :47:23. | |
:47:23. | :47:25. | ||
prosecuted? I have every sympathy. I am being -- I'm trying to make | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
sure that these crimes are taken very seriously by the police | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
because they put massive costs on to voluntary services and charities | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
and businesses. We must make sure it is not seen as a second order | :47:36. | :47:44. | |
crime. It is a worrying crime. debate this afternoon will be vital | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
because it shows that the House will be united in its revulsion at | :47:48. | :47:52. | |
what has been done to Milly Dowler's family. Can I ask the | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
Prime Minister to make urgent inquiries as to whether the | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
families of the victims of 9/11 were similarly targeted by | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
criminals and News International, and if they were, well you raised | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
it with his counterparts in the United States? -- will he raised it. | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
In the statement I will make, I will give figures for the amount of | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
phones that the Metropolitan Police think were hacked. They pledge they | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
will contact every single one. Paul Stephenson and thyme last night, | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
and I sought further reassurances of -- about the scale of the | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
operation. In what was a mixed appearance by police officers at | :48:33. | :48:36. | |
the Home Affairs Select Committee last night, I thought that Sue | :48:36. | :48:40. | |
Akers, leading the investigation, acquitted herself extremely well. | :48:40. | :48:44. | |
We should have confidence that the Metropolitan Police will get to the | :48:44. | :48:49. | |
bottom of this. With ambitions of being the greenest County, Suffolk | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
is committed to a low carbon world with offshore wind farms, nuclear | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
power and the recycling rate of over 60%. He is always welcome to | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
visit but will he give his backing to our ambitions to enhance skills | :49:02. | :49:07. | |
training so we can build a new job opportunities to be created locally. | :49:07. | :49:10. | |
I think the honourable lady makes a good point and I congratulate her | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
on branding Suffolk as the green coast. I think there is a big | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
opportunity in light of what the Energy and Climate Change Secretary | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
has sat, in terms of green jobs, renewable energy and nuclear. One | :49:24. | :49:27. | |
of the things to encourage the inward investment we want is to | :49:27. | :49:30. | |
demonstrate that we are going to build up our skills base, and that | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
is where local Enterprise partnerships can create such a | :49:33. | :49:39. | |
valuable role of. Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether he | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
had any conversations about phone hacking with Andy Coulson at the | :49:42. | :49:47. | |
time of his resignation, and will he place in the elaborate a lot of | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
any meetings and phone calls between him and Andy Coulson | :49:52. | :49:58. | |
discussing his resignation? As I said, perhaps before she wrote or | :49:58. | :50:05. | |
had written her questioned, of course I sought assurances from | :50:05. | :50:10. | |
Andy Coulson and I received those assurances. Those assurances were | :50:10. | :50:17. | |
not just given at the time to me, but also given subsequently to the | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
Select Committee and to a criminal case under oath. These were | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
repeatedly given. Let me say, for the avoidance of any doubt, if | :50:24. | :50:27. | |
these assurances turn out not to be true, then it is not just that he | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
should not have worked in government, it is that he should, | :50:31. | :50:39. | |
like others, face the full force of law. Can I raise a different case | :50:39. | :50:43. | |
of hacking. The computer hacker Gary McKinnon. Whilst I recognise | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
the Home Secretary has legal process to follow, does he share | :50:47. | :50:52. | |
the concern for my constituent's nine-year nightmare as he feels his | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
life is hanging on a thread, waiting to be cut by extradition? | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
recognise the seriousness of this case. The Deputy Prime Minister and | :51:02. | :51:05. | |
I raised it with permanent -- President Obama when he visited. It | :51:06. | :51:10. | |
is not about the alleged offence, which everyone knows is very | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
serious, and you can understand why the Americans feel so strongly | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
about it, REALLY is in front of the Home Secretary, who has to consider | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
reports about Gary McKinnon's Health and well-being. It is right | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
that she does that in a proper, effectively and quartzite judicial | :51:26. | :51:36. | |
:51:36. | :51:41. | ||
way. -- and the case really is. Can I ask the Prime Minister to | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
justify the following expenditure, at the beginning of last month a | :51:45. | :51:50. | |
servicemen from Northern Ireland a asked for a non urgent pair of | :51:50. | :51:57. | |
boots. �45. They were dispatched from defence based best by private | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
courier to Northern Ireland at a cost of �714. Is it not time that | :52:02. | :52:10. | |
he got a grip of this? I know that former health ministers wanted to | :52:10. | :52:14. | |
hear the rattle of every bedpan and maybe I should see the order of | :52:14. | :52:17. | |
every pair of boots, but to recognise the point. One of the | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
things we're trying to do in the Ministry of Defence is recognised | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
that there is a huge amount of cost in terms of back-office costs and | :52:24. | :52:28. | |
logistics. We want to make that more efficient so that we can spend | :52:28. | :52:32. | |
money on the front line. The example he gives is a good one and | :52:32. | :52:40. | |
I shall check it out. Can the Prime Minister assure the | :52:40. | :52:42. | |
House that all the legal press activity under the last government | :52:42. | :52:47. | |
will be investigated now, and that this will include the criminal | :52:47. | :52:50. | |
conspiracy between the highest levels in that last government, | :52:50. | :52:57. | |
with parts of the Murdoch empire, including blagging of bank accounts | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
of Lord Ashcroft in a bid to undermine him and his positions, as | :53:03. | :53:10. | |
laid out in dirty politics, dirty times. The point about the inquiry | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
is that it will look at the relationship between politicians | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
and media groups over the whole issue of that relationship as it | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
relates to media policy. I think this is extremely important. The | :53:21. | :53:26. | |
inquiry will have the ability to call serving politicians, previous | :53:26. | :53:29. | |
Prime Ministers, to get to the bottom of what happened and how on | :53:29. | :53:36. | |
healthy this relationship was. That is what needs to happen. One Monday, | :53:36. | :53:42. | |
the MoD Permanent Secretary told the Public Accounts Committee that | :53:42. | :53:47. | |
the Prime Minister himself locked the National Audit Office from | :53:47. | :53:53. | |
accessing relevant Security Council documents. The audit is considered | :53:53. | :53:57. | |
essential to assess whether decisions on the aircraft carrier | :53:57. | :54:01. | |
in the Defence Review represent value for money. That refusal is | :54:01. | :54:07. | |
unprecedented. In the interests of full transparency and | :54:07. | :54:11. | |
accountability, will be Prime Minister now agree to immediately | :54:11. | :54:18. | |
release the information? The short answer is we were following | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
precedent, but a long answer is, if she wants me to come to a committee | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
and explain what an appalling set of decisions by last government | :54:27. | :54:33. | |
made on aircraft carriers, the delay alone by the government she | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
worked for added �1.6 billion to the cost of aircraft carriers! If | :54:38. | :54:42. | |
she wants me to turn up and not just tell you what we discussed in | :54:42. | :54:46. | |
Cabinet, but lay out the full details of the waste that her | :54:46. | :54:55. | |
government was responsible for, name the day. Following a question | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
from me three-and a-half years ago, his predecessor, the right | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
honourable member for Dunfermline and Cowdenbeath set up pilot | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
schemes to provide sign language support for deaf parents and their | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
children in Devon and Merseyside. These have now been completed and | :55:09. | :55:14. | |
have been a success. Will he meet a delegation of deaf parents and | :55:14. | :55:18. | |
children to discuss how this sign language support can be extended to | :55:18. | :55:24. | |
all children and parents across the United Kingdom? We do a lot to | :55:24. | :55:27. | |
support different languages throughout the United Kingdom and | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
signing is an incredibly valuable language for many people in our | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
country. These pilot schemes have been successful and I looked at | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
what the last Prime Minister said when asked this question. I will | :55:38. | :55:47. | |
certainly arrange a meeting for him. My question to the Prime Minister | :55:47. | :55:51. | |
concerns the Translink real programme and the contract. He will | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
be aware that with 20,000 manufacturing jobs at risk, it is | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
right that it should be of concern. Can the Prime Minister confirm that | :56:00. | :56:05. | |
no contract has been signed and that no contract can be signed | :56:05. | :56:15. | |
:56:15. | :56:15. | ||
until the funding package itself is determined. --? Given that the | :56:15. | :56:25. | |
:56:25. | :56:28. | ||
funding package... 20,000 jobs are at stake. Given that 20,000 jobs | :56:28. | :56:33. | |
are at risk, will be Prime Minister look at holding the competition for | :56:33. | :56:41. | |
that funding package... I think we have got it. What I would same to | :56:41. | :56:45. | |
the honourable gentleman, I know he cares deeply about this issue, and | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
bombard BAA is a great country if - - Bombardier is a great company. In | :56:49. | :56:54. | |
this case, the procurement process was designed and initiated by the | :56:54. | :56:59. | |
previous government. We were bound by the criteria they set, and | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
therefore we have to continue with the decision made according to that | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
criteria. We are looking at all EU procurement rules to see whether we | :57:06. | :57:12. | |
can make better for the future issues like this. Will the Prime | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
Minister join me in calling for the electrification of the crew Mach 2 | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
Chester realign? -- Crewe took Chester rail line, which will link | :57:23. | :57:30. | |
us to High Speed Two? I am well aware of this campaign. I remember | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
spending a lot of time at Crewe station during the last Parliament, | :57:35. | :57:41. | |
normally accompanied by people dressed in top hat and tails. It is | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
not in the current programme but we will look sympathetically. We know | :57:45. | :57:50. | |
we want to see more electrification of railway lines in our country. | :57:50. | :57:55. | |
His government said that university tuition fees would average 7005 | :57:55. | :58:03. | |
under pounds. In actual fact, the average �8,400. -- �7,500. How can | :58:03. | :58:09. | |
you open the taxpayer to such a liability during this Parliament? | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
There are only nine universities charging �9,000 for every student. | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
There are 58 universities that will not charge �9,000 for any of their | :58:18. | :58:24. | |
courses. If you look at further education courses, 108 out of 124 | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
will charge less than �6,000 for all their courses. But the point I | :58:29. | :58:33. | |
make is that university degrees have not suddenly started costing | :58:33. | :58:39. | |
7000, 8000 or �9,000. They have always cost that. The question is, | :58:39. | :58:42. | |
do you last successful graduates to pay or do you ask the taxpayer to | :58:42. | :58:48. | |
pay? We have made our choice and I think that the party opposite, that | :58:48. | :58:54. | |
introduced tuition fees, has got to come up with an answer. Amid the | :58:54. | :59:00. | |
turmoil in other European economies, is it not essential that this | :59:00. | :59:04. | |
country should continue to take steps to reduce its debt and Steer | :59:04. | :59:13. | |
clear of paying for any future EU bail-outs? It is not only the | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
restrictions of the Euro, it is also the building up of | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
unsustainable levels of debt. Although we are out of the Euro, it | :59:20. | :59:24. | |
does not mean that we do not have to deal with debt. We do. But we | :59:24. | :59:28. | |
have the opportunity of being a safe haven for people. You can see | :59:28. | :59:31. | |
our market interest rates coming down because of the action this | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
government has taken. We have to keep that up but recognise that the | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
Euro is sorting out its own problems and that is in our edition | :59:39. | :59:43. | |
-- that is in our best interests. We have to be helpful and | :59:43. | :59:49. | |
constructive. Last week, I was approached regarding a fee paying | :59:49. | :59:52. | |
debt management company that wanted to advise their clients to take out | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
a remortgage to pay debts. The company paid �11,000 to creditors | :59:56. | :00:01. | |
and went out of business, taking the rest of his money. I have many | :00:01. | :00:06. | |
other examples like this. Self- regulation is not working with his | :00:06. | :00:10. | |
industry. Will the Prime Minister look at regulating this sector and | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
provide the OFT with the resources to take action swiftly so that | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
vulnerable people are not continuing to be ripped off? I know | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
that the honourable lady has not just constituency experience of | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
this but managed a Citizens Advice Bureau centre herself, so has | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
experience of seeing people coming in with debt problems. I would say | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
that the Citizens' Advice Bureau was probably the finest | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
organisation in our country for helping people with debt. I will | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
certainly look at the suggestion she makes about whether the sector | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
can be better regulated. And also, looking at the issue of credit | :00:47. | :00:55. | |
unions and how we can lead to their expansion. The House will share the | :00:55. | :00:59. | |
out rage that the right honourable member for Kirkcaldy and | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
Cowdenbeath Express this week about the publication of private medical | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
information relating to his son. He said when he was Prime Minister, he | :01:07. | :01:15. | |
tried to set up a investigation into phone hacking. Can my -- can | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
be Prime Minister save what detailed preparatory work he | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
received? I have sympathy with the former Prime Minister about the | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
blagging of his details. In public life, we are all subject to extra | :01:29. | :01:35. | |
scrutiny. It is not fair one laws are broken. The fact is, we have | :01:35. | :01:41. | |
suffered and we have been too silent. That is the problem. You | :01:41. | :01:46. | |
hold back from dealing with these situations because you want good | :01:46. | :01:54. | |
relations with the media. I did not inherent any work about the public | :01:54. | :02:04. | |
inquiry. But the one we have set up will get the job done. The 45th | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
International Children's Games will come to lecture at the start of | :02:07. | :02:14. | |
August. When hundred 1012 to 15- year-old will participate in nine | :02:14. | :02:19. | |
sports across the county. Will the Prime Minister congratulate two | :02:19. | :02:28. | |
Labour authorities in Olsson the games and will he set a -- send a | :02:28. | :02:38. | |
:02:38. | :02:41. | ||
representative of the Government to It sounds like an excellent | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
initiative and I wish everyone the best of luck. Would the Prime | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
Minister confirm that all witnesses will be required to give evidence | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
under oath? As I will explain in a minute, it is going to be one | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
inquiry with two parts, but led by a judge, and the judge will | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
eventually agree the terms of reference, set out the terms it is | :03:03. | :03:13. | |
:03:13. | :03:18. | ||
going to work, and be responsible In recent days, the whole country | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
has been shocked by the revelations of the phone hacking scandal. What | :03:22. | :03:26. | |
this country and this house has to confront is an episode that is | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
frankly disgraceful. Accusations of widespread law-breaking by parts of | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
our press, alleged corruption by police officers and as we have just | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
discussed, a failure of our political system over many years, | :03:38. | :03:43. | |
to tackle a problem that has been getting worse. We must, I think, at | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
all times, keep front and centre, the real victims of this. Relatives | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
of those who died at the hands of terrorism, war heroes, murder | :03:53. | :03:56. | |
victims, people who have already suffered in ways that we can barely | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
imagine. They have been made to suffer all over again. I believe we | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
all want the same thing. We want press, police and politicians that | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
serve the public. Last night, the Deputy Prime Minister and I met | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
with the Leader of the Opposition. I also met with the chairs of | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
Culture, Media and Sport, home affairs and justice and select | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
committees to discuss the best way forward. I want to set out how we | :04:22. | :04:26. | |
intend to proceed. First on the public inquiry, second on the | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
issues surrounding News International's proposed takeover | :04:29. | :04:33. | |
of BSkyB, and third on ethics in the police service and its | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
relationship with the press. Before I do that, let me update the house | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
on the current criminal investigation into phone hacking. I | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
met with Sir Paul Stevenson last night. Be assured me the | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
investigation is fully resourced, it is one of the largest currently | :04:48. | :04:52. | |
under way in this country and it is being carried out by a completely | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
different team than the one that carried out the original | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
investigation. It is being led by Sue Akers, who I believe impress | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
the select committee yesterday. Her team is looking through 11,000 | :05:04. | :05:11. | |
pages containing 3870 names, including around 4,000 mobile and | :05:11. | :05:16. | |
5,000 landline phone numbers. They have contracted 170 people so far | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
and they will contact every person named in those documents. The | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
commissioner's office informed me that the team have made eight | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
arrests and undertaken numerous interviews. Let me turn to the | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
action that the government is taking. I set out our intention to | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
establish an independent public inquiry into phone hacking and | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
other illegal practices in the British press. We have looked | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
carefully at what the nature of this inquiry should be. We want it | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
to be one that is as robust as possible, that can get to the truth | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
fastest, and get to work the quickest. And one that vitally | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
commands the full confidence of the public. There are two pieces of | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
work that have to be done. First, we need a full investigation into | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
wrong doing in the press and police, including the failure of the first | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
police investigation. Second, we need a review of regulation of the | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
press. We would like to get on with both of these elements as quickly | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
as possible, while being mindful of the ongoing criminal investigations. | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
After listening carefully, we have decided the best way to proceed is | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
with one inquiry, but in two parts. This inquiry will be led by one of | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
the most senior judges in our country, Lord Justice leavers and. | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
He will report to both the Home Secretary and the Secretary for | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
Culture, Media and Sport. The inquiry will be established under | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
the 2005 inquiries Act, which means it will have the power to summon | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
witnesses including newspaper reporters, management, proprietors, | :06:43. | :06:51. | |
policemen and politicians of all parties, to give evidence under | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
oath. Starting as soon as possible, Lord Justice leaders and, assisted | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
by a panel with relevant expertise in media, broadcasting, regulation | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
and government, will inquire into the culture, practices and ethics | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
of the press, their relationship with the police, the failure of the | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
current system of regulation, the contacts made and discussions had | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
between national newspapers and politicians. Why previous warnings | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
about press misconduct were not heeded. And the issue of cross- | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
media ownership. He will make recommendations for a new, more | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
effective way of regulating the press, one that supports their | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
freedom, plurality and independence from government, but which also | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
demands the highest ethical and professional standards. He will | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
also make recommendations about the future conduct of relations between | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
politicians and the press. This part of the inquiry, we hope will | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
report within 12 months. The second part of the inquiry will examine | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
the extent of unlawful or improper conduct at the News of the World or | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
other newspapers. And the way in which management failures may have | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
allowed this to happen. This part of the inquiry will look into the | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
original police investigation and the issue of corrupt payments to | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
police officers. And it will consider the implications for the | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
relationships between newspapers and the police. Lord Justice has | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
agreed to these draft terms of reference. I am placing them in the | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
library today and we will send them to the devolved administrations. No | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
one should be in any doubt of our intentions to get to the bottom of | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
the truth and learn the lessons of the future. Next, the issue of News | :08:27. | :08:32. | |
International's bid to take over BSkyB. By the day, we are hearing | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
shocking allegations. Allegations that royal protection officers were | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
in the pay of the News of the World and they handed over the contact | :08:39. | :08:43. | |
details of the Royal Family for profit. Allegations that the former | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
prime minister, Gordon Brown, had his personal details black by | :08:46. | :08:56. | |
:08:56. | :08:57. | ||
another News International title. - Serious questions must be asked | :08:57. | :09:02. | |
about News Corporation's proposed takeover of BSkyB. News Corporation | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
has withdrawn his proposed undertakings in lieu of reference | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
to the Competition Commission. That is why on Monday, my right | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
honourable friend, the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
referred their bit to the Competition Commission. The | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
relevant independent authorities will have the time to take an | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
exhaustive look at all the relevant issues and come to an consider | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
decision on whether this takeover should proceed. -- considered | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
decision. It will be up to the Secretary of State to make the | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
final decision, in his quasi- judicial capacity. We must follow | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
the law in respect of News International's proposed | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
acquisition of BSkyB. Let me repeat what I said on Monday. In my view, | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
this business should not be focused on mergers and takeovers but on | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
tearing up the mess and getting their house in order. That is what | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
the house will be voting on tonight -- Clearing up. The people involved, | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
whether they were directly responsible for wrong doing, | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
whether they sanctioned it all covered it up, however high or low | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
they go, they must not only be brought to justice but also have no | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
future role in running a media company in our country. Now let me | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
turn to the issue of ethics in the police and their relationship with | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
the press. Of course, it is important that there is a good | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
relationship between the media and the police. Police often used | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
newspapers and other media to hunt down wanted criminals and appeal | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
for information. However, allegations have been made that | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
some corrupt police officers may have taken payments from newspapers. | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
There are wider concerns that the relationship between the police and | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
the press can also be too close. When I spoke to Sir Paul Stephenson | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
yesterday, he made clear that he is as determined as I am to -- that | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
all aspects of the police Russia should with the media should be | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
beyond reproach. Want -- police relationship. On the issue of | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
improper payments, the Met Police immediately referred the case to | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Since then, the IPCC's | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
most senior commissioner has been supervising the Met's work to | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
identify officers we may have taken payments. As soon as any officers | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
are identified, the commission has made clear that it will move to | :11:15. | :11:18. | |
wear full independent investigation, drawing on all the available | :11:18. | :11:28. | |
expertise necessary, so the public is reassured. -- moved to a full. | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
It has the resources and full powers to investigate any | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
wrongdoing they might uncover. The Home Secretary has commissioned a | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
report from the IPCC on their experience of investigating | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
corruption in the police service, and any lessons that can be learned. | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
Their initial findings will be delivered by the end of the summer. | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
I can also tell the House that in addition to the work of the | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
judicial requiring, the -- inquiry, Sir Paul Stephenson is looking to | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
invite a senior figure to advise him on the ethics that should | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
underpin the relationship for his own force, the Metropolitan Police. | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
This figure will advise him on how to ensure maximum transparency in | :12:07. | :12:13. | |
public confidence on how the arrangement works. If we are | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
calling for greater transparency from the police, it is only right | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
we provide it in government and too. As I have said, one of the reasons | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
we got into this situation, is that over the decades, politicians and | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
the press have spent time courting support, not confronting the | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
problems. I will be consulting the Cabinet Secretary on an amendment | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
to the ministerial code, to require ministers to record all meetings | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
with newspapers and proprietors, senior editors and executives, | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
regardless of the nature of the meeting. Permanent secretaries and | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
special advisers will also be required to record such meetings. | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
This information should be published quarterly. It is a first | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
for our country and alongside the other steps we are taking, will | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
help make the UK Government one of the most transparent in the world. | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
I will also discuss this with the opposition and perhaps we can adopt | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
this on a cross-party basis. After this statement, I will be meeting | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
the family of Milly Dowler. None of us can imagine what they have gone | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
through, but I do know this. They, like everyone else in this country, | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
want their politicians, all of us, to bring this ugly chapter to a | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
close and ensured that nothing like it can never happen again. It is in | :13:26. | :13:35. | |
that spirit that I commend this Can I start by thanking the Prime | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
Minister for his statement, and the meeting last night? The revelations | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
of the past week have shocked the whole country. The public now | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
rightly expects those of us in this house that represent them, to | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
provide not just an echo for that shock but the leadership necessary | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
to start putting things right. That is why it is in the interest of the | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
whole house that we move forward swiftly, comprehensively and | :13:58. | :14:01. | |
wherever possible, on an agreed basis. Let me ask him about the | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
timing, the nature and scope of the inquiry. Can I welcome the | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
establishment of the inquiry today, and can the Prime Minister | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
confirmed it will be staffed, and up and running, before the recess? | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
Can he also confirm that from the moment the judge is appointed today, | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
it will be an offence to destroy documents relating to this inquiry, | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
and can he tell us was that he will be taken to preserve documents at | :14:27. | :14:32. | |
Downing Street which might be relevant to the judge's inquiry. We | :14:32. | :14:38. | |
welcome a number of aspects of the announcement today that we have | :14:38. | :14:44. | |
been clearly dealing -- calling for. It must be judged lead if it is to | :14:44. | :14:48. | |
get to the bottom of what happened, and when. Can he confirm it has | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
been set up under the inquiries Act 2005, and will have the power to | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
compel witnesses? Can he explain how he envisages the judge and the | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
panel operating together? Turning to the scope of the inquiry, the | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
Prime Minister set out a number of areas he envisaged being covered in | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
his press conference last Friday, and he has gone further today. A | :15:09. | :15:15. | |
think it is right the government had decided to follow our advice, | :15:15. | :15:22. | |
and the Curia views... -- the Clear the use of the hacked off campaign | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
:15:32. | :15:32. | ||
and the Dowler inquiry in acting And we come out of that exchange at | :15:32. | :15:36. | |
the House of Commons. You can continue to follow it on the BBC | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
Parliament shall. On a day where British politics is now totally | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
dominated by what happened at the News of the World and the fall-out | :15:47. | :15:50. | |
from that. Prime Minister's Questions, the front bench exchange | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
was all about that subject. And the Prime Minister has just made a | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
statement which means that for the foreseeable future, although it may | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
not be in the headlines to the extent it is now, this issue will | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
continue to rumble on for two, three, possibly four years as the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
inquiries that the Prime Minister has announced into the behaviour of | :16:09. | :16:15. | |
the press over hacking and the police, and then they brought some | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
inquiry into the nature of press regulation and press standards in | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
this country takes place. -- a broad. One that will take place | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
under a judge, under oath and in public with proprietors having to | :16:28. | :16:34. | |
turn up as well as everybody else. Legal obligations to do so. We have | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
15 minutes on this programme to go. These are big events. Your reaction | :16:39. | :16:46. | |
first and then that of our panel. Strong reactions from you. John | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
from Garden City: "Ed Miliband started with a strong hand but now | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
he seems to be concentrating solely on Andy Coulson. He is in danger of | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
posturing. The key issue is standards. It looks like David | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
Cameron made just begin to start leading on this issue." Annie in | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
Manchester: "David Cameron has demonstrated he will throw anyone | :17:06. | :17:13. | |
to the wolves to say his -- save his own face.'s another | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
viewer,"Presumably Andy Coulson was vetted before taking his position. | :17:16. | :17:21. | |
Interesting to know whether the betting was completely done. If it | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
was, did the Prime Minister ignored the advice? If not completely done, | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
it needs to be looked into."Jacqueline Korn"David Cameron | :17:29. | :17:36. | |
has been forthright. If Ed Miliband tries to make a with this, he | :17:36. | :17:43. | |
should be demoted."Another one,"I wonder why Mr Clegg and Mr Osborne | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
are not joining in the roars of the backbenches."And it would not be | :17:48. | :17:55. | |
PMQs if we did not have a comment on the Speaker. Andrew:"The Speaker | :17:55. | :18:01. | |
needs to come down."A full advice. I'm sure the Speaker will help it - | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
- helpful advice. I'm sure the Speaker will take it. When are we | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
now, Nick Robinson? On the one hand, we have the Prime Minister urging | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
the opposition to come with him, saying that any future meeting | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
between senior politicians and not only -- not ordinary journalists | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
but their editors, managers or proprietors will have to be | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
recorded. We do not know how. I suspect that they will give us the | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
dates -- they will not give us the Danes, but I expect they will say | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
that there were two meetings in the last quarter or so on. When you say | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
recorded, not take it? It will be published, entered into the log | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
book. Later, not bad day, but we will be told that the Prime | :18:45. | :18:49. | |
Minister had a meeting with the likes of Rebekah Brooks, Rupert or | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
James Murdoch or their equivalents in other organisations including | :18:53. | :19:00. | |
the BBC. That is a very significant change. If you speak to the Prime | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
Minister, will bat now be -- well that's now be out? I think he means | :19:07. | :19:14. | |
the people who run the newspapers, so whether it would be the BBC's | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
head of news or the Director General, who knows? It is not yet | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
clear but it seems to me those meetings would be recorded along | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
with those from newspapers as well. There does not seem to be a great | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
problem with that but it is an important change. We will be able | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
to see a pattern of whether politicians are seeing a particular | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
paper or a particular -- particular proprietor in advance of important | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
news stories and business decisions. In addition, we will get under off | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
from a judge the exposure of what happened in the past between | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
politicians and the media. And both Ed Miliband and David Cameron have | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
now publicly said that there is quite a lot in their party's pasts | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
that they regret and in David Cameron's case, his personal past. | :19:59. | :20:03. | |
As it happens, Ed Miliband has had rather limited contact, something | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
that was seen as a problem two weeks ago. Suddenly, having no | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
friends and the media comes -- becomes an asset. That process of | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
exposing who did what, who knew what. One other thing was not said | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
in the statement, which are thought was terribly important. The Prime | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
Minister said"We must look at amending the laws. The fit and | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
proper test, the test that can be applied by the media regulator as | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
to whether anyone is a fit and proper holder of the and | :20:36. | :20:41. | |
broadcasting licence."The problem with that, politicians tell me, is | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
that until there is a conviction, you cannot say someone is not fit | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
and proper. The problem in this case is that the timetable for the | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
takeover of BSkyB is quicker than the timetable for any prosecutions. | :20:53. | :20:56. | |
Therefore, the decision has to be taken before you know whether they | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
are fit and proper. One other thing, he suggested that competition law | :21:00. | :21:06. | |
might have to be changed. The law was set up precisely to stop | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
politicians picking and choosing between which businessmen they | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
liked and which they did not like. Yet it leaves the Prime Minister | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
and the Culture Secretary in a problem, saying, we do not want | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
this to happen but we cannot stop it happening. That leaves | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
Parliament in the extraordinary situation of voting, if there is | :21:24. | :21:32. | |
every vote, and there may not be a vote because of procedural things, | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
voting to stop things happening, but being unable to do so. Margaret | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
Beckett, it looks like the Government has given Mr Miliband | :21:39. | :21:47. | |
what he wanted. It sounds like it. If you go back a week or 10 days, | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
we were calling for evidence on oath and a judge-led inquiry. You | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
name it, and it appears to be all there. If there are any nooks and | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
crannies, it will no doubt come out later. There may be an argument | :22:00. | :22:06. | |
about Heinen -- timing issues. looks as though we have got 80 or | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
90% of what we asked for. Were you struck by what I was struck by? | :22:13. | :22:17. | |
thought there was a personal thing and will the Prime Minister | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
said."The search your bins,"He said,"And you do not complain | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
because you want a good relationship."I thought that was | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
something that anybody on any side of the Commons could have agreed | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
with. It seemed to go beyond the political. I was muttering that | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
that was completely right. We have heard these changes. David Miliband | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
-- Ed Miliband challenged David Cameron to publish retrospective | :22:42. | :22:46. | |
details of meetings with newspaper proprietors. I expect that is | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
because he is assuming that Mr Cameron has had more than Mr | :22:51. | :22:56. | |
Miliband has had. It is confession day. Some people watching this will | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
say that we are effectively in war -- at war in Libya, there is a | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
European sovereign debt crisis gathering momentum and perhaps | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
coming to the boil, and that there is no sign that growth is returning | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
any time soon to this economy. But our political system is going to be | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
dominated by investigations into the media. It is the wrong priority, | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
some people will say. I do not think it is the wrong priority. It | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
is clear the public feels a sense of outrage about what has happened. | :23:30. | :23:36. | |
Listening to Nick, My senses that there is two parts to this. There | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
is looking at the relationship between the police and the media | :23:39. | :23:45. | |
and there is looking at the hacking episode. But there is also a | :23:45. | :23:48. | |
broader context, the relationship between the media and the | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
politicians, going back into the past. I expect that that will give | :23:53. | :24:00. | |
you and your colleagues in the media many, many hours of copy and | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
interview time over the years. It will dominate the political agenda | :24:04. | :24:09. | |
far more than the Iraq Inquiry did. There is also we reason why it is | :24:09. | :24:13. | |
not irrelevant when it comes to talking about Libby and the economy. | :24:13. | :24:18. | |
Nick Robinson made the point about the thing of people going through | :24:18. | :24:23. | |
bins, but the fact is that in any government, for as long as I can | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
remember, making the right decisions about your policy choices | :24:27. | :24:33. | |
is also influenced by how well the meatier -- influenced by how the | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
media treats it and you. Anything that makes that healthier is good | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
for politics. Well that every change, do you seriously think it | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
will? Does it not happen in every democracy in the world you might | :24:45. | :24:50. | |
yes, but it might become less poisonous. In a way, your policy | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
was hijacked by Mr Murdoch and News International. Perhaps that will | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
come out. I would suggest, Nick Robinson, that in the nest -- Nick | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
Robinson, but in the rest of the media, the non National newspapers, | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
they will be saying to Mr Murdoch, look what you have done to us, look | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
what your behaviour has done. agree. I have a personal view, if | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
you permit me. I have met people who were not in the News | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
International empire who have been saying,"Isn't this great?". I have | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
said, be careful what you wish for. This is an investigation that will | :25:30. | :25:34. | |
expose practices that could empower people who want to hamper the press | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
and the media, which could mean that people come for other people | :25:38. | :25:42. | |
in the media. It is all that well to say, let us open it out, but no | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
one knows quite where it will end. What is interesting is that when | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
you go back to wide this was not reopened, John Yates has had lot of | :25:52. | :25:56. | |
criticism but let us be honest, journalists like myself have had | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
criticism for not taking it seriously enough a few months ago. | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
Part of why I believe the police did not reopen the case, as well as | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
other things that may be exposed, it comes to the root of your | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
question, which is, or do not better things to be doing? There | :26:14. | :26:17. | |
was a frustration that the political classes were dragging the | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
police into dealing with their own dirty business and the view of the | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
police was, sort yourself out, politicians. I have to stop you | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
there because I have news for more important than anything you have | :26:31. | :26:41. | |
:26:41. | :26:41. | ||
been talking about. Far more important and rather sad. Sad for | :26:41. | :26:46. | |
us and our regular viewers. After three years, Anita is departing. | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
She leaves behind a treasure trove of memories and great times but we | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
have enjoyed together with the team. Here are some of them. -- that we | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
have enjoyed. Let us see if you can remember when | :27:00. | :27:10. | |
:27:10. | :27:10. | ||
this happened. Bon jour! That is French, don't you | :27:10. | :27:15. | |
know? Repeat after me, argued David | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
Lambie, happy to share a platform with me, Jo Swinson? Why you, David | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
Lambie, happy to share a platform with me, Jo Swinson? -- are you, | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
David Lambie. A healthy body needs a healthy mind. | :27:30. | :27:40. | |
:27:40. | :27:44. | ||
A healthy body, needs a healthy mind. | :27:44. | :27:54. | |
:27:54. | :27:55. | ||
I will do it again. Take two! I am talking nonsense. | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
Are you taking over this interview, David? Let me answer another | :28:00. | :28:10. | |
:28:10. | :28:14. | ||
question. Don't do that, it is not nice. | :28:14. | :28:20. | |
Salut! How can you not be sad after seeing | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
all of that. The flowers on the film was when Anita went off to | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
have a baby. These are flowers for you, my darling. For our last | :28:31. | :28:32. | |
programme. Thank you. | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
What are you going to do now? I have a new show on Radio 5 Live | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
and I will be popping up on Radio 4. You get to pick a winner. | :28:40. | :28:48. | |
It is Josie. You were getting a mug. -- a Daily Politics mug. | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
1945, the Euro was born. We will be back tomorrow night. I will be | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
joined by Michael Portillo, Quentin Letts, Diane Abbott and Jon Snow. | :28:58. | :29:02. |