Conference Special: Part 1 Daily Politics

Afternoon, folks. The sun is out and the sky is blue and the

economic backdrop is grim and getting grimmer. Maybe that is why

the Lib Dems have voted to create a National Institute of well-being.

For all of you cynics out there, -- before you scoff, I wanted to know

that I feel better already, even We will be talking to Danny

Alexander. That is not all, because Jo is here in Birmingham as well,

so it must be an important day. What a welcome. I am here as well,

I will be looking back at what a turbulent year the Liberal

Democrats have had. It has not been plain sailing for Nick Clegg. What

with tuition fees, the a be a referendum and health. If you are a

member of the party, you may not want to watch our review of the

year, a health warning for you. And Yes, all that coming up in the next

hour of political pantomime. Sorry, I mean public service broadcasting

at its finest. We have the former Chief Secretary to the Treasury,

David Laws MP. Welcome back. How is life outside the cabinet? Not bad,

I am a strong supporter of the coalition, -- government. What have

you been up to? I have my job to do as a Member of Parliament and I am

supporting the government involved in the parliamentary services bill.

Sometimes you seem to be supporting the government more than some of

the members of the government? not sure about that but I believe

it is important that the Liberal Democrats should play a

constructive role in the coalition. Sometimes we need to act as a

breaker in particular areas. But our role in the coalition

government is to be partners and to pursue a constructive partnership

and make sure we get as much of foreign policy agenda implemented

in government. I understand that, it is true of any party in a

coalition. But constructive relationship, it hasn't exactly

been the hallmark of speeches. Are you comfortable with this Tory

bashing? I think the party has been trying to find the right balance in

coalition, between making clear to the electorate that there is

distinction between the Liberal Democrats, in the case of values

and policies, many of them, but demonstrating something that the

public were sceptical about in May 2010, that two parties with

different traditions could work together. I think in the first year

we got the balance wrong, the public felt we were not hearing

enough from the Liberal Democrats - - they were not hearing enough. In

the second year, we have tried to get the balance right and I am sure

that we will do. The party has been trying to re-establish its identity,

that is part of the motive for the Tory bashing. In most areas, your

policy, the party's policy, is the policy of the coalition government.

You haven't got a separate defence policy from the coalition

government, or do you? We have our own policies as Liberal Democrats,

but we have agreed with the Conservatives, a plan for coalition

government. Sometimes a very big issues like tax, the Conservatives

have made concessions, so we are delivering. You have not got

policies in the main areas, because they are the combine compromised

policies of the coalition. There is not a separate Lib Dem policy on

growth, or is there? That is the nature of coalition, that you come

together, and agree while you are governing together, to make those

compromises. At the next general election, we will still have all of

the parties competing between themselves with our own policy

agendas. It will then be up to the public to decide which of those to

support. The Lib Dems' policy for growth is the same as the

coalition's, at the moment? That's right, we are working within the

coalition government to make sure we have strong support for the

deficit reduction strategy, that we were part of shipping, but to make

sure, in a very challenging year for the whole of the developed

world economy, that we are doing everything we can to support growth,

which is critical to the deficit reduction strategy, and there is a

lot we can do one grows. Why isn't it working -- on growth. We have

had international developments that have been unfavourable. Oil prices

going up 50%, food prices doubling, chaos in the eurozone, the US

economy slowing down, the Japanese tsunami. All of those are

international events, some of those we can help to correct in the

future, we need to be working in the eurozone to sort out the

problems. Some are outside the power of the British Government in

the short term. We can obviously do things, and that debate is

happening within the government at the current time, to support growth.

I understand it is difficult time for everybody. The IMF poss

downgrade of growth forecast was worse for us than for Europe or the

United States, we are barely going to grow by 1%. So we are worse.

next year, we are forecast to grow in line with all of the major

developed economies. In fact, faster than a number of developed

countries. But not this year? year we are forecast, and the other

major economies are forecast to be growing in the 1%, to 1.5% zone, so

all very similar. The problems we have in the United Kingdom are not

some particular aspect of the way the government is conducting

economic policies, they come as a consequence of international

problems, including the very big squeeze on purchasing power,

because of the rise in inflation due to the oil price and food price

shocks. The IMF said it activity were to undershoot current

expectations, and this is me, that is certainly true in Britain, you

have undershot your growth forecasts, countries that face

historically low yields, and that is also Britain, should also

consider delaying some of their planned adjustments. In other words,

budget cuts. Why did you follow the IMF's and vice? -- advice.

should be sticking with our deficit-reduction plan. It doesn't

say that. That is what they have said clearly about Britain,

yesterday and in all of their statements over the last few months.

They have been absolutely clear they don't want us to change.

page 79 of the World economic Outlook, they say that countries

like Britain... They don't say if you have got a big deficit, you

shouldn't... They are saying if you can borrow cheaply, you should

consider delaying budget cuts. Why wouldn't you do that? They were

asked this question about Britain yesterday and they made clear they

support the existing strategy of the government. It is that strategy

that is keeping interest rates low, helping businesses and mortgage

payers, and potentially giving scope to the Bank of England to

carry out further measures to ease monetary policy, if they think that

is necessary. That would not happen if they talk it up. If the Vince

and -- tore it up. If Vince Cable called for a new style fiscal

stimulus, he is wrong and not going to get it question are he is

He is absolutely supporting that he believes the government's deposit

reduction strategy should stay in place. He has pointed out sensibly

that the Bank of England, when inflation comes down next year as

we believe it will do, has the scope to do more quantitative

easing. Why did he not call for a fiscal stimulus? He is supporting

the policies that Danny Alexander has implemented this week, for

example, where we have found an additional half a billion pounds to

put into capital expenditure. you seriously looking me in the

face and saying that half a billion pounds of a trillion pound economy

is a new deal style fiscal stimulus? Tell me. I am saying it

is one of a whole series of things that the government is doing, and

can be going along with the Bank of England, to support growth. Danny

Alexander has made it clear there will be no extra fiscal stimulus. A

new deal style stimulus is not saying, we will bring something

sport, we will change the money and spend it here rather than there.

The key is in the world stimulus. It is extra, and that is not going

to happen, is that right? There are other ways of delivering a stimulus

to the economy that don't simply rely upon the government breaking

public expenditure plans. The CBI has described a number of ways in

which the private sector could play a bigger role in supporting growth

in infrastructure spending. It is not investing because it doesn't

really... It hasn't got confidence in the coalition government to

provide the economic framework that would make investment sensible.

don't think that is right. I have spoken to the head of the CBI, is

supportive of what the government is doing. He doesn't have money to

invest. He is looking for the government, which is what the

government is also seeking to do, to support private business

investment, and talking about the role in infrastructure. Why isn't

business investing? Business is reliant on the general state of the

economy, and we have been buffeted in the United Kingdom by the same

pressures... We have considered that. And we need to look at doing

the things we can do to support the businesses that have got the money,

but also potentially, to get additional credit through to the

small and medium-sized business centre, where we know there are

genuine credit constraints. There is a crisis building up in the

wholesale money markets, that any banks with substantial sovereign

debt exposure can't even borrow now, or they borrow a very high rates

and a very short term. It is of a big concern in the United Kingdom

there we have this crisis of confidence in the eurozone, that

To we have a big stake, even though we are not members of the euro, to

solve those problems out. Dee's be a lot to Nick Clegg, David Cameron?

-- do you speak a lot? I don't believe in phoning up the

leadership 10 times a day and giving them my advice. What about

once a day? When I have something to say that I think maybe useful, I

feed it in. When they think I have anything to say, they may ask my

views. But they have plenty of other very good advisers. Danny

Alexander is over there now. He is doing a damn good job. Waiting in

the wings, he is joining us in a minute. He is doing a damn good job.

You have to say that. He is. Many people in the media were throwing

stones original, they are not throwing them now. The Daily

Politics has never thrown a stone at Danny Alexander, I want that on

the record. We have not thrown one and you either, maybe the odd

pebble, or a Chucky. Do you know what that is? Danny will tell you

what that is. David Lloyds likes plan A, at least that is what he

told us -- David Laws likes. What about you? Are you a A, or B

person? We sent Adam off with his box of tricks to find out.

This conference is taking place against a backdrop of grim news

about the economy. The most recent piece being the IMF downgrading its

forecast for Britain's growth this year. Do the Lib Dem delegates

thinks the government should stick to its plan a on the economy, or is

it time for a Plan B? It is very difficult. We don't know if the

plan is working or not. There is no Plan B. I would like to put it in

plan B, but I can't see a credible, coherent alternative, so I'll have

to go with plan A, against my best wishes. You have gone for plan A,

why? It is difficult, but it is slowly moving in the right

direction. I think we ought to stick with it. If we change

direction, it will undermine the markets. Let's -- it is time for

Plan B. Plan A is looking... Affecting the low-paid, the

underprivileged only. We now need to speed up the tackling of the

rich. One thing you can say about the Conservatives, it does hurt and

sometimes the cuts are not fair, but they usually do saw the economy

out to an extent. I hope it is the crude way of judging economic

policy. I would not take part in that because I am a plan A plus

person. I am not trying to be difficult. If you were Michael

Crick, I would give the same answer. Your menu choice is to be expanded,

it is never that simple. What do you think of this as a polling

method? As long as you choose the sampled the cricket, this is

precisely the method as the one we used to predict the general

election in our exit poll -- as long as you choose the sample

correctly. That is the seal of approval from the experts. I will

probably go for plan B at the Vince Cable, right up your street,

Plan A or plan B on the economy? No, perhaps he does not have a view.

Let's see who is in the lead, it is planning by a mile. But a lot of

people have said they are voting for Plan A plus. Vince Cable, do

you want to pick up one of the balls? You have got it control on

the interest rates on sovereign debt. Plan B leads to greater cuts

in the long term. Are you confident that pioneers working? I am apply

any person, but not with any joy, and no one really knows how it is

going to pan out. The Liberal Democrats should not be helping the

Conservatives so much. The reason there is not much in Plan B is

possibly, what is plan B? Labour need to tell us what they would do.

Below loads of delegates have voted and it is clear there are singing

from the same hymn sheet. Most people are in favour of planning.

Like David Laws, the rank-and-file were on message for Plan A,

although some without much enthusiasm. As if by magic, we get

two for the price of one, the former Chief Secretary to the

Treasury, David Lodge, and now we have his successor. -- David Laws.

It is Danny Alexander. My worry is that I will not get a cigarette

paper between the two of you. Let me try. Has Vince Cable ever

suggested that he wants more capital spending? What we have

discussed is what I have been describing today, how do we make

sure that the capital spending we have set aside, which we prioritise,

how do we make sure that happens on schedule? Bureaucracy often holds

these things up in government and we cannot afford for that to happen.

Can we use our spending more effectively to help the private

sector and bring forward developments. The thing I announced

on Sunday was a fund specifically aimed at unlocking local

development sites that have been stalled. That is intelligent use of

the money. We're committed to the spending plans we have set out

because it is important to our nation's credibility. So it is

fiddling, moving around the deck chairs, but not adding to the

number of deckchairs? I am not sure I want to pursue the deck chairs

analogy. It is in the context of the massive work going on in

government to identify the things we can do to help economic growth.

I would argue that our deficit reduction plan is the foundation of

growth, but many things, like the regulation, the planning sector,

these are all there to lift the productive potential of our economy.

Words mean nothing if we cannot agree that that does not amount to

a new deal style fiscal stimulus. It is not a fiscal stimulus, it is

sticking within our existing spending plans. We're spending �700

billion of public money this year. 50 % of GDP. Over the course of

this financial period, 2.8 trillion pounds will be spent by government.

We cannot spend �700 million and -- if we cannot spend �700 million and

do some good, we need to try something else. He cannot comment

because he is the Treasury minister, but you are not, should the Bank of

England going for more quantitative easing? Provided we hold course on

the deficit reduction plan, which is what we're going to do, if the

economy remains weaker than we would like because of international

pressures, the bank will be in a position to consider different

sorts of quantitative easing. Particularly as we know that it is

likely that the uncomfortable inflation we have had this year is

likely to come back down next year, because the increase in food and

energy prices will not feed through again. You can comment on this

because you are a backbencher. Is it not inevitable that giving

Greece's public debt is now heading for 200 % of its GDP, and the

economy is declining by 6%, that Grease defaults as night follows

day? I think that the fault is not the word I would use. -- a

defaulting. The Eurozone governments need to come together

with the Greek government to do two things. To have a serious strategy

for deficit reduction in Greece and to look at where there the debts

they have got, which are difficult to manage, can be re scheduled to

make them bearable. How can you ask the Greeks to do more when as the

schools went back last week they did not even have textbooks? We can

ask them to deliver on the promises they may can be serious about that,

and secondly, if they do those things they can expect assistance

from the other EU governments, which could include re scheduling

their dead so that the burden is bearable. If we put to march on

Grease, we will create problems. You can answer this question but I

am not sure that you will. When we will look at what is happening in

the money markets, for the financial system to work, banks

need to borrow from the wholesale market, then they lent to us. That

is drying up in the way it did before the collapse of Lehman

Brothers. The banks are not able to earn because they have Greek debt

on their balance sheets. Are we not on the brink of another major

financial meltdown? I would not necessarily draw those parallels

myself but there is a lot of uncertainty in the market. That is

fuelled by doubts about the ability of politicians to get to grips with

the problems they have. People like it the United States and see the

Congress and the President not been able to agree. People look at the

Eurozone and see those governments not coming up with solutions as

quickly as they need to. markets and are acting in a way...

The reason why the markets are not lending money to the banks is

because they see the politicians are not doing anything to sort the

problem and that in itself will create a financial crisis. We need

to see those steps taken in those countries. Are you nervous about

the current situation? It is extremely challenging. It has a

real effect on the economy of this country and people in every corner

of the United Kingdom. That is why we're working with our partners in

the Eurozone to encourage them to take steps that need to be taken,

and make sure that each country does the right thing in terms of

its own economic situation. It is not often you get two chief

secretaries, one former and one current, so I have a quiz for you

both. Who said in January 2009, printing money is the last resort

to desperate governments when all other policies have failed? Was if

you, Andrew. No. I need to spend more time listening to my

colleagues' speeches! It is your current boss, George Osborne, the

Chancellor. He said that printing money is the economics of Mugabe?

think that was Vince Cable. You are correct. Do we have a bigger

structural deficit than we thought, because the Financial Times report

this week came out with a structural deficit of 12 billion

more than what you calculations are based on? We set up an independent

Office For Budget Responsibility to take the judgment of those things

out of the hands of politicians. I will wait for their forecast rather

than relying on speculation. was borrowing at a record in

August? I thought you were meant to be cutting borrowing? You have been

in power for 17 months and you had to borrow �16 billion in August.

That has never happened in our history. There were special factors.

The previous month, borrowing had been much lower than it had been

the previous year. We have one of the largest deficits of any

developed country. When we came into office, borrowing 150 billion,

we're bringing it down this year. That is still greater than the cost

of funding the entire National Health Service. This is why you

think you have to bring it down? Correct. The target is 122 billion

this year? Yes. That is what was set out. We are on target for this

year. The Office For Budget Responsibility's calculations

assumed a higher growth rate and we're currently experiencing, so

are you not going to have lower tax rates and higher welfare payments

to make? A inflation has an impact on those kind of cost, feeding

through in future years. That is what the last will be are forecast

showed. We will see what they came out with in November. -- the last

Office For Budget Responsibility forecast. People need to have

confidence in Britain's ability to pay off her debts. Would you like

your old job back? Sadly, I think Danny Alexander is doing too good a

job. When will we see you back in government? I do not know. I am a

strong supporter of the coalition but we have very good ministers,

including at the Treasury. You were a Business Secretary? If you were a,

you would be more on message than the current one? Despite your

mischief-making attempts, we have a very good Business Secretary.

rank-and-file Want You Back, let's look at the audience. They are

mostly journalists. I think they have come to see the current Chief

Secretary. That is The Daily Politics audience. They have come

here to see you today. Thank you to board if you for being such good

sports and for being here on The Daily Politics. Let's go to Jo.

It is time now for some hacks, not me, of course. There was a time

that discussing leader trip troubles was as much part of party

conferences as nursing a hangover. -- leadership troubles. Not that

this one, everyone seems to be solidly behind Nick Clegg, but if

that changes, how do you get rid of Liberal Democrat leader? Here is

Giles. There are a number of circumstances

that can provoke a Liberal Democrat leadership election and there are

all covered in article 10 of the party's constitution. The triggers

for such a contest are if the leader calls an election, such as

Charles Kennedy did, or resigns, such as Menzies Campbell did, or

resigns or dies or is incapacitated. That involves the leader but the

only way for the party to force a leadership election is if there is

a vote of no confidence colt by a majority of MPs are request for a

leadership election by at least 75 local parties. You cannot just put

your hat in the ring, you need at least 10 % of the parliamentary

party to support you, 200 party members, and they have got to be

from at least 20 different local parties. That is a lot of telephone

bashing. But things are rosy-ish for the current leader. Bound

though he is by being in a coalition with the Conservatives,

which some Liberal Democrats do not like, it is unlikely for the time

being that anyone will use these rules to challenge Nick Clegg.

Charles reporting there. Keeping the company, we have Simon Hoggart

from the Guardian and Andrew Pierce from the Daily Mail. Andrew, you

could say that Nick Clegg has survived? There has not been a

leadership challenge which is an achievement in itself? If you

consider where the party was after the AV referendum, when they were

crushed, a blow for her Nick Clegg's authority, it was a success

for him. Byatt I am surprised he has not died of boredom this week

because this has been uninteresting. Really? Yes, it is flat. The

problem is that this conference hall is too big for the Liberal

Democrats. They need a smaller venue because they are a small

party. There is not a lot of policy in terms of announcements? No.

know we should not say these things, but if Nick Clegg were to fall

under the proverbial bus, who would replace him? It would be between

Chris Huhne, and Tim Farron, the party president, who is a

Lancashire lad. He said yesterday, the economy is barbered. I do not

think he will fall under a bus. There would be a great dividing

point between the Liberal Democrats and the Tories if that Nick Clegg

had to go back and say, our people will not change their view on this

one. People keep raising the subject of divorce, but if you do,

your spouse may take the hint after a while. I think that is what Tim

Isn't it a synthetic cardamom, marriage, divorce, distancing --

synthetic argument? We sound like relationship counsellors. They are

in a dysfunctional relationship because they loathe each other.

all of them. A lot of it, or they want to beat the Tories when they

campaign. It is an unlikely pressure, they have done incredibly

well to keep it together and I think it will continue. Nick Clegg

seems more relaxed at this conference, which is slightly

bizarre, if you think the calculation when they came into the

coalition was that fears of austerity, economic upturn and we

will get back in next I -- a few years of austerity. What happens to

the party? It is descending into Death Valley. I did gather a report

of Nick Clegg smiling once. There is a whole website of Nick Clegg

looking sad! That missing puppy that his children lost has not

turned up yet. He reminds me of an exasperated headmaster with the

recalcitrant school assembly. In the question and answers session he

was tetchy with those Liberal Democrat members, because he wants

to make this work and he is fed up with them complaining and moaning.

He should talk to Vince Cable who complained and moaned all through

his speech. Do you think that needs to change? Does there need to be

more uplifting? Truth and honesty, it fair enough but you have to have

something to be uplifting. You have to talk about the sunny uplands

even if they are not going to happen. Every study of politics

shows that it is the optimism that wins. Ronald Reagan it knew nothing

about the role of government but he was an optimist. You need a smack

of that. Why do you think Nick Clegg is more relaxed? Is it

because they feel the rock bottom was tuition fees, that has gone,

and the AV referendum was I think that is it. He has displayed what

is called muscular liberalism. It is a way of trying to have a

different narrative, he feels he has pitched it right and he is

cheering up his activists. If you Conservatives watching this, will

they be interested, will they be put off? You have the realists who

might say, we have got to stick with these people, at least until

the next election. You have the head bangers who are saying, these

appalling people are holding us back from going Britain what it

really needs. Whenever Paddy Ashdown specs, the conference is a

little bit electrified. -- speaks. I don't think they're going to be

excited this afternoon. Talking of excitement, you can have a badge.

Which one would you like? I love mansion tax, Andrew Pierce? I think

I will have don't panic. I have already pinched, I love the

EU, but it is ironic! Is it? -- I love the euro. The Liberal

Democrats used to La for the euro, it is very much in the past.

used to love the euro. Has it been a good or bad year for the Liberal

Democrats. Can you remember the ups and downs? This will jog your

We confounded those who said that coalition government was impossible.

The Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives are, and always will

be, separate parties with distinct history is and different futures.

But for this Parliament, we work together. To raise the cap on

tuition fees is wrong. We will resist, vote against, campaign

against any lifting of that cap. course, I feel really bad. It is

one of the most difficult things I have ever had to do, to own up to

the fact that I signed a pledge which I feel I can't deliver.

Graduates should make some contribution for the benefit of

going to university, the question is how. The road to Westminster are

covered with the skid marks of different political parties

changing direction on this issue. The waiting is over, this was to be

the day of the cuts. The day when people would learn what they meant

for their jobs, their pensions, to their services. Today is the day

when Britain steps back from the brink. We are picking on the week

is society -- you are picking on the week is people in this society

and it is completely unfair, how you have applied this budget.

the real world, the richest are paying the most. There is no doubt

Getting up early, what I call a lot of Britain, working hard, we are on

AV would be wrong for Britain. It is obscure, it is unfair, it is

expensive. This is a campaign built on lies and a deeply personal

attack on the Deputy Prime Minister. If you thought it was all over, it

is now. By well over two to one, Britain voted not to change its

This is a bitter blow for those people like me to believe in the

need for political reform. We are seeing a repeat pattern of northern

cities where the Liberal Democrats are losing not just one or two, but

virtually all of their This is not the moment to embark

upon the reorganisation of the most trusted public service in the whole

of the United Kingdom. Pause. Listen. To reflect. We are not

afraid to disagree, to have the debate and bring together the best

of our ideas. You will see a strong liberal

identity in a strong coalition government. You might even call it

You can't smash a window and grabbed a BlackBerry, a pair of

shoes, a T-shirt that you like the look of and sometimes you think you

The idea that we are going to shift of focus to the wealthiest in the

country when everyone is under pressure is cloud-cuckoo-land.

is right to privatise the help to millions of people who need it the

most, and not to a small minority of people who don't need as much

help. In other words, the people at That was the year, and I am joined

now by Lorely Burt, the chair of the Liberal Democrat party. We have

seen that the party has been battered over the past year to some

extent, by tuition fees, the drubbing at the local elections,

the AV referendum. Are you in denial about the state of the party,

Alan? No. One of the reasons that your previous commentator found it

boring is that there is no great row or bust-up. For me, the

highlight of the year was 5th April when 1 million people came out of

income tax because Liberal Democrat policy had been carried out. People

have things they want the coalition to do, but there are things they

are delighted it has done. suppose I am thinking more about

where the party is at. There may have been no big bust ups, but it

is a sort of, we haven't got an alternative, cross our fingers,

everyone is looking cheerful. Should they be? Yes, because they

are doing what is right, supporting a party into coalition. We have

been arguing that we should change our political system to one in

which parties work together. you lost on the AV referendum, it

is gone for a generation? We have a coalition now in the present system.

The present system will deliver governments that do not have a

majority, that have to form coalitions. The old loyalties to

the old parties have dissipated and it is a much more fluid politics.

This conference has been all about differentiation. We have heard that

word endlessly. But the latest poll says 68% of the public don't know

what Nick Clegg stands for, that is a big problem. We have always been

branded as, the nice Liberal Democrats. That is because you were

never in powerful top yeah, we like to vote for you but we are not sure

what you stand for. -- that was because you're never in power

before. Now they know that we are standing for working for the good

of the country. That is a very broad thing. What is it that Nick

Clegg stands for? Fairness, improving the tax system, so that

the least well are able to pay benefit most. He stands for green

ness, the Green Bank, we are going to be the greenest government ever.

We have restored the earnings link, we have done so many things since

we have been in government. suppose the issue of the green tax

is a number one concern, energy prices, these are not things that

people support. Energy prices are rising, not because of things that

we are putting into place but because of what is happening

elsewhere in the world. We have got to take action to get our own

economy, based on our own energy. Lorely Burt has listed the

achievements, why is the party at rock bottom? Doldrums in the polls,

popularity at the bottom. If you have done so much wonderful stuff,

why aren't you doing better? We had to take difficult decisions which

involved cutting back on things we would prefer not to do. The tuition

fees decision is one we would not have chosen to make. We are in a

much worse financial position than we expected. We have produced a

fair position for people on lower incomes. We have a message to

deliver to people. In a conference like this, the coverage will start

to tell people what we stand for. Do you agree with Vince Cable that

it is time for a stand at -- time for a stimulus? We already

delivering a stimulus, we can't increase the amount we are spending

over and above what we do. We could see the Bank of England putting

more money into the economy, the famous quantitative easing. Vince

Cable can't say that sort of thing publicly. What about a stimulus,

what about growth? Do you agree with Vince Cable, even if what he

said isn't going to happen? Would you like to see more money come in

now? I would love to see more money, but we haven't got the money. So

much of it is going on redressing If we don't get that right, we

asked daft as a country. Name one thing you would like to see the

Liberal Democrats claim credit for in the rest of this Parliament --

we are staffed as a country. fairness agenda. Meaning what?

Fairness to pensioners... What specific policy would you like to

see? I would like to see more to do with... My area is business. I

would like to see fairness between working people and companies as

well, giving companies what they need to be able to grow, but

insuring people get their fair rewards as well. The 50p tax rate,

shouldn't the Liberal Democrats be more worried about what happens at

the other end rather than at the We are not going to touch the 50p

tax rate and less, and until we have raised the threshold for

people on low incomes, and found better ways of making sure the

richest people pay their share. Take a bad, what would you like? --

take a badge. I love high-speed rail. That would bring a great

economic stimulus to the West Midlands, so I will take this on.

back the coalition. What a loyalist Party members have been taking part

in an emergency debate on the NHS. It is probably fair to say that

Nick Clegg has taken a bit of a pasting by some of the speakers.

Listen to this. He has done an enormous amount of work, as have

many in our parliamentary party to get these concessions, but we

should never have been made in the first place, Nick Clegg should not

have put his name to it because it was not what we agreed. Nick Clegg

has had massive publicity saying that no one would be able to make a

profit out of our children's education. But what I do not

understand is why eight days or Kate... Sorry, why is it not OK to

make a profit out of our children's education, but it is OK to make a

profit out of our bad health? For my real concern, speaking to people

in the youth and children's sector is the impact of this at the sharp

end, the fragmentation of services which will have an impact on

children. How many more children will end up being taken into care

or even been a missed, like Baby P? I am worried that we are

fragmenting services that are so important for every single one of

us. That is not about party politics, but about why we came

into politics, caring for our nation. Let's get the thoughts of a

man who apparently, party president, Tim Farron, wants to be like when

he grows up. I speak of the deputy leader, Simon Hughes. Who do you

want to be when you grow up? Do not say Tim Farron. I think I am past

thinking about this. But these health reforms, they are not

popular with your members? How did you end up down this road? There is

a simple answer, and there is a lot of work to do on the bill in the

Lords. Our members there are clear about that. I thought the party

leadership wanted to close that down, you had your rebellion in

March? No, what we did not want was a full-scale debate to open up

everything. To answer your first question, how we are here, this was

not a Bill that came from the coalition agreement. It seemed to

surprise everybody, including David Cameron. That may be true but I

have no problem of following the coalition agreement that was

negotiated. But the Forestry thing, that was another thing that came

that was not negotiated. But we now have good procedures in place, we

now have a system that unless something was in our manifest or

the coalition agreement, we will only supported if the parliamentary

party considerate and vote in favour. That is our safeguard for

the country. A colleague -- at colleagues of yours, Andrew George

MP, he says that will allow support the coalition I want to do my best

to save the NHS from what I believe may be a catastrophic train crash

which I believe may take the party with it. Is he representative?

There are people that share his view. Let me get this clear, the

argument over the health reforms is by no means over? It is not over.

We made it clear at our conference in March, and the bill was stopped.

Large numbers of amendments were put in at committee stage and

report stage. It has gone to the House of Lords and there are some

significant things that need to be done, in my view. I believe that

because our Piers are clear about that... Gave me the most

significant change you want to see? We need to tie down the private

work of the NHS, so that they cannot become the dominant or

financial practical activity. It's are you still suspicious of private

activity in the NHS? We have got to make sure it cannot become the

driver of any part of NHS activity. That is very interesting. We will

keep an eye on that in the weeks ahead, when Parliament comes back.

On the broader picture of your party, you lost the AV referendum

in style, voting reform is probably off the agenda for regeneration,

your last 700 seats in local government, you are 11 % in the

opinion polls, less than half what you wear at the election, the

students hate you and the economy is in the tank, what has been the

good news this year? You can lay cat one side of the picture. We had

a difficult six months from November, I know that we handled

tuition fees badly. I was clear about that at the time. And you are

right, the referendum was not a great success. Since then we have

started picking up seats at local government level. One or two. John

Major used to tell me how many local government seats he was

winning and I think he lost by 160 seats. I am trying to compare

before and after. We have been taking up supporters and donors,

and most importantly we have been taking upper mac position in the

opinion polls. I have seen 13 %. -- our position. We need to make sure

that our economy does not go the way of the States and the other

major economies. This city will not see manufacturing on its feet again

if the whole economy is not under control and that is why we have got

to be tough about that. You have heard that there will be an

acceleration of the end it is putting activity back into the

economy. Not a stimulus, and acceleration of existing plans?

Absolutely. Transport infrastructure needs to be brought

forward. As soon as there is the capacity we can do it. Do you think

that this song that you have been singing is representative? We have

a leader who has hung as out to dry. He made us a break air pledge, but

we will stick with him because we loved him, because we love him.

That was nearly a wrap, Andrew. that what date has come to? He hung

a side to dry. The official Lib Dems song book. -- hung us out to

dry. Have you not heard of Satar? We are joined by Nick Robinson. We

have got the speech but we're not allowed to speak about the contents

because it is under embargo. What do you think about it? It is an

argument rather than a series of policy announcements. Does he try

and says here are some new things I am unveiling, does he try and say,

let me give you a vision of where we will be in 2015, to chew you up,

or does he have an argument? I think that is basically what he

will be doing. Without breaking the embargo, the phrase he will be

using his, it is not easy, but it is right. Many people once loved

him, Cleggmania, but the hard decisions were the right decisions.

In a sense, his key argument to the country is that the Government is

fair because Liberal Democrats are at the heart of it. He will say

that is worth keeping. Is this an unusual speech in the sense that

the messages the same for the party faithful in the hall and the wider

audience watching at home. Sometimes they have got to give two

messages? There are parts of the speech that will be significant in

the hall which I suspect will not naked in two television reporter

the newspapers, and in them he will say to his party it is not good

enough to carry on being the opposition. The party was used to

being the opposition for years. There is a danger that he continues

to be the opposition party in government. His message to the

people that think that, is that you can stand up on health, but you

need an agenda for what you positively want to do, not what you

want to stop. The mood of this conference has been quite upbeat.

Is that because you are naturally an optimistic party are totally in

denial? Neither of those things. thought my kit had to be one or the

other. The options before me are not those. It is a serious

conference. It is a serious conference for serious times by a

serious party. Make Robinson made the point, quite rightly, that

we're going to be judged on whether we have delivered and it is a five-

year plan. It will last for the whole of five years. We knew that

the first couple of years would be difficult and we have taken some

heads, but it is no good going back. You have got to keep scoring

Liberal Democrat victories, taking poor people lighted tax, and we

will go on, within the coalition, tilting the Government away from

what it would have been if it was Tory only, to a fairer outcome, so

that we have recovery but it is fair because we are there.

important thing is that what the Liberal-Democrats have done by

coming first is that they have tried to tilted in the other

direction. There will be Conservative MPs at their

conference next week he will say that we do not like that killed

very much. Let's get our own party leadership to bring it back, and

Europe, tax cuts, crime, and this conference may cheer up Liberal-

Democrats but it will also mean that there are Tories that say we

are in for a fight. The good news for the country is that on the key

issues there is an agreement. We need to stick to it. On law and

order and Europe? There is no consensus on that? There is

consensus. Even on stimulus, you seem to be divided. There has been

a very pragmatic view on Europe taken by the Prime Minister. It is

important that the Eurozone survives because we do 40 % of our

business over the water. Ipsos MORI have introduced some new things

from the opinion poll at the weekend. The Liberal Democrats are

now seen as the most divided of the three men -- the three main Lidl --

the three men national parties. This is the legacy of the tuition

fees debate. That has clouded all sorts of things. In the end we

tried to explain that we were not the Government on our own and the

Tories did not agree with us. We could not win that argument

internally. In terms of being divided, the political researchers

have said over the last few years that we are the most united. The

job has to be to make sure that this Government has things that

matter to Liberals and Liberal Democrats. The answer is a fairer

Britain. We have 10 seconds. It is a lot more cheaply than we thought

my cake would be. Let's give them credit. We have to go for the

moment. We will be back at 2:30pm. Not to o'clock, 2:30pm, for live