27/04/2012 Daily Politics


27/04/2012

Andrew Neil with the latest on calls for an inquiry into the behaviour of culture secretary Jeremy Hunt. There are interviews with Michael Fallon, Tom Watson and Brian Paddick.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. Did Culture Secretary

:00:46.:00:51.

Jeremy Hunt break the ministerial code or not? Now a senior Liberal

:00:51.:00:54.

Democrat has backed calls for an immediate inquiry into Jeremy

:00:54.:00:56.

Hunt's dealings with Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.

:00:56.:01:01.

Wanted. Big hitter to defend the Tories. Who on earth would want to

:01:01.:01:06.

be their man on the front line? Or woman?

:01:06.:01:09.

And speaking of big hitters, will this former policeman be fighting

:01:09.:01:13.

his way to City Hall? The Lib Dem candidate for London Mayor, Brian

:01:13.:01:21.

Paddick, will be appearing. We need to identify a degree of

:01:21.:01:24.

authenticity and compassion in the way we deal with this, otherwise

:01:24.:01:28.

you just seem like you don't know what you or talking about.

:01:28.:01:32.

Rupert Murdoch wasn't the only star of the show this week. We'll be

:01:32.:01:34.

taking a look back at some glittering moments in the

:01:34.:01:44.

Westminster village. All that in the next hour, coming up, public

:01:44.:01:49.

service broadcasting in its -- at its finest.

:01:49.:01:54.

With us for the duration veteran political journalist, Julia Langdon.

:01:54.:01:58.

And the young whipper-snapper from the Times, Sam Coates. We will take

:01:58.:02:04.

him down a peg or two! Welcome to you both. Now without further ado

:02:04.:02:07.

lets talk about Rupert Murdoch, who apparently has no power and if he

:02:07.:02:15.

had he wouldn't know how to use it. He knew nothing about phone hacking

:02:15.:02:18.

and was the helpless victim of the phone hacking cover-up at the News

:02:18.:02:25.

of the World. Poor fellow. And he was under oath! Hardly worth

:02:25.:02:28.

mentioning at all in fact, but let's talk about him anyway. But

:02:28.:02:32.

first here's some choice clips from the evidence he gave to the Leveson

:02:32.:02:38.

Inquiry this week. There is no question in my mind that maybe even

:02:38.:02:46.

the editor but certainly beyond that, someone took charge of a

:02:46.:02:51.

cover-up. Some might say that all this picture is consistent with one

:02:51.:02:59.

of a desire to cover up rather than a desire to expose. In minds like

:02:59.:03:08.

yours, yes, perhaps. I am sorry. I take that back. Excuse me. Did you

:03:08.:03:15.

have any discussions with Mr Jeremy Hunt about the bid? I don't believe

:03:15.:03:22.

I have ever met him. I am not sure he didn't come to a dinner once a

:03:22.:03:27.

couple of years ago. I certainly did not discuss it. When your son

:03:27.:03:35.

told you about the replacement of Dr Vince Cable, did he tell you, we

:03:35.:03:40.

have got someone better now? Words to that effect? I don't know if he

:03:40.:03:45.

used those words. We couldn't have had anyone worse. I am sure he

:03:45.:03:51.

didn't use those words precisely. I am communicating the gist of the

:03:51.:03:56.

idea. He had Vince Cable, he was dead against News International.

:03:56.:04:01.

You knew that on that 20 -- on December 21st, when it came out on

:04:01.:04:07.

the BBC, so it must have passed through your mind. He has been

:04:07.:04:11.

replaced by Jeremy Hunt, what is Jeremy Hunt like? Didn't you ask

:04:11.:04:19.

your son? I may have. I don't remember. You must have done.

:04:19.:04:26.

mustn't have done anything. I explained to you yesterday, I never

:04:26.:04:30.

saw anything wrong in what we were doing, that it was a commonplace

:04:30.:04:35.

transaction. A large one but a commonplace one. That was not the

:04:35.:04:40.

question, Mr Murdoch. So why would I be worried about the politics of

:04:40.:04:46.

it? Probably the last time Rupert Murdoch will be interrogated live

:04:46.:04:49.

on British television. And we've got a couple of deputy

:04:50.:04:54.

dogs with us now as well. For a first in British television ever,

:04:54.:04:59.

appearing together, Deputy Chairman of the Conservative Party, Michael

:04:59.:05:03.

Fallon, and the Deputy Chairman of the Labour Party, Tom Watson.

:05:03.:05:07.

Welcome. This unique and ground- breaking piece of television.

:05:07.:05:13.

Jeremy Hunt said he will give all the Leveson Inquiry e-mails between

:05:13.:05:18.

himself and Adam Smith to Lord Leveson, isn't that enough? He has

:05:18.:05:25.

obviously not sent any e-mails to him then. Are you that cynical? Yes.

:05:25.:05:30.

You don't think he would want to put into the record any potentially

:05:30.:05:34.

embarrassing communications? This is a ridiculous charade where the

:05:34.:05:41.

Tory party are trying to stop a proper investigation. Michael will

:05:41.:05:47.

have a row about it, he will defend the Tory line, and then in a couple

:05:47.:05:52.

of weeks they will have to do it. The inquiry into Jeremy Hunt's

:05:52.:05:57.

behaviour has gone to Lord Leveson, whose terms of the inquiry do not

:05:57.:06:02.

cover the ministerial code. I think Tom Watson would be more cynical if

:06:02.:06:07.

the government would doing its own inquiry. This inquiry is under way

:06:07.:06:14.

by a senior judge. Jeremy Hunt was already due to appear before it.

:06:14.:06:19.

Other politicians will appear later on, including politicians from that

:06:19.:06:23.

side of the House, the previous government, and we will get to the

:06:23.:06:28.

bottom of what happened. Lord Leveson was not a high it to judge

:06:28.:06:33.

on the ministerial code, he is not an expert on that -- was not

:06:33.:06:37.

employed to judge. You have someone who is an expert on the ministerial

:06:37.:06:43.

code, who is paid to adjudicate on the ministerial code, and you have

:06:43.:06:47.

not referred it to him. The because Lord Justice Leveson said the

:06:47.:06:51.

better course was to allow the inquiry to proceed and he will be

:06:51.:06:55.

able to weigh up the evidence and if anything comes from that that

:06:55.:07:00.

needs to be investigated under the ministerial code, that will be done.

:07:00.:07:04.

I have got the terms of reference for Lord Leveson. Where does it say

:07:04.:07:09.

he should pass judgment on whether a minister has bridged the

:07:09.:07:12.

ministerial code? Your Prime Minister raised the bar on

:07:12.:07:18.

ministerial standards. He said, we will clear this up. Now you have a

:07:18.:07:21.

guy whose adviser has Leeds these e-mails to a lobbyist for James

:07:21.:07:27.

Murdoch and now you a say we are too scared to have an investigation.

:07:27.:07:32.

-- you are saying. Do you think that will hold him up mind of the

:07:32.:07:37.

people in the country? There is an investigation that is going on.

:07:37.:07:41.

This Prime Minister set up the Leveson Inquiry. But he did not

:07:41.:07:47.

give them the terms of reference to adjudicate on the ministerial code.

:07:47.:07:51.

What the Prime Minister has done is set up an independent adviser on

:07:51.:07:55.

the ministerial code, he is called Alex Allan, simple name,

:07:55.:07:59.

straightforward man. Why he's been not allowed to rule on the

:07:59.:08:08.

ministerial code? There is an inquiry... A but not on the

:08:08.:08:13.

ministerial code, which Jeremy Hunt has been accused of breaking!

:08:13.:08:18.

they are central to what Lord Leveson is inquiring into. If it

:08:18.:08:23.

follows from this evidence that there is the specific issue under

:08:23.:08:28.

the ministerial code that requires further explanation and examination

:08:28.:08:33.

by Alex Allan, that will be done, but the first in is to let Jeremy

:08:33.:08:40.

Hunt put forward the information... Why not to Alex Allan? The

:08:40.:08:43.

ministerial code states clearly that ministers are responsible for

:08:44.:08:48.

the behaviours and actions of their special advisers. Jeremy Hunt's

:08:48.:08:52.

special adviser has resigned so therefore to work out why it and if

:08:52.:08:57.

there has been a breach, why do we not ask the man that the people are

:08:57.:09:02.

paying to police this ministerial code? Because we already have an

:09:02.:09:05.

inquiry into the relationship between government and BSkyB under

:09:05.:09:10.

way, headed by a senior judge, and he himself has said that the best

:09:10.:09:14.

course would be to allow that inquiry to proceed, to see the

:09:14.:09:17.

evidence and test Jeremy Hunt on the evidence and for him to give

:09:17.:09:22.

his side of the story, and if it transpires there has been a breach,

:09:22.:09:28.

that can be looked at. This is preposterous. The Conservative

:09:28.:09:31.

chairman of the Public Administration Committee was the

:09:31.:09:35.

independent adviser to see it. Simon Hughes of the Lib Dems wants

:09:35.:09:39.

him to see it. The only person who does not want it is the prime

:09:39.:09:44.

minister. The truth about this, everybody is running absolutely

:09:44.:09:49.

terrified because they know they will be exposed for being a tied to

:09:49.:09:52.

Rupert Murdoch, and that will happen to people in my party as

:09:52.:09:57.

well by the way, but you are defending the indefensible today

:09:57.:10:01.

and it is unacceptable and ludicrous. This government set up a

:10:01.:10:06.

full inquiry, you never bothered to do that. I am not answering for my

:10:06.:10:14.

predecessors. He was quite keen on the inquiry. This Prime Minister

:10:14.:10:17.

have to take responsibility. A minister may have breached the

:10:17.:10:21.

ministerial code and there is a procedure and you of running away

:10:21.:10:26.

from it and even your own backbench Tory MPs and important members

:10:26.:10:32.

within the Conservative Party say you were wrong. Let's go on to the

:10:32.:10:37.

border story of Rupert Murdoch and his relationship with politics in

:10:37.:10:43.

the UK. What did we learn this week, or what do we know now that we did

:10:43.:10:48.

not know on Monday? We know that Rupert Murdoch has admitted there

:10:48.:10:52.

was a cover-up at News International. We know he

:10:52.:10:55.

disregarded parliament, the blackmail allegation was raised

:10:55.:10:58.

with him when he gave evidence in July and he had forgotten about it

:10:59.:11:03.

by the time he got in front of the judge this week. We know they are

:11:03.:11:07.

fighting like rats and they are shooting each other left, right and

:11:07.:11:12.

centre. What we don't know, what other contexts of the Burton

:11:12.:11:20.

Copeland report...? News International have not given up

:11:20.:11:25.

their privilege of that glory at report. Yes and if that report

:11:25.:11:29.

identified wrong doing at the company in 2006, that might mean

:11:29.:11:35.

the directors at News Corp are potentially questionable under an

:11:35.:11:41.

act in the United States, and they may also be responsible for not

:11:41.:11:44.

letting their shareholders no price-sensitive information so the

:11:44.:11:48.

one thing he has got to do is published that Burton Copeland

:11:48.:11:54.

report. Is it not significant that the two people Mr Murdoch appeared

:11:54.:12:01.

to implicate him the cup a ruck, Colin Myler and Tom Crone, they

:12:01.:12:06.

said they had briefed Mr Murdoch's son -- implicated in the cover-up.

:12:06.:12:13.

Should we not see something thinner step in that? Everybody regards

:12:13.:12:20.

anything to do with that Mr Murdoch as sinister. -- should we not see

:12:20.:12:24.

something sinister in that? judge has got to look at this and

:12:24.:12:34.

draw on it. His every Allsopp of the Conservatives for the -- is

:12:34.:12:37.

every answer from any Conservative in the foreseeable future going to

:12:37.:12:42.

be that we have to wait for the opinion of Lord Leveson? Are you

:12:42.:12:47.

hiding behind Lord Leveson's robes or will you answer the question, of

:12:47.:12:51.

what do you think the significance is of picking Tom Crone and Colin

:12:51.:12:59.

Myler as the people responsible for the cover-up? Nobody is hiding from

:12:59.:13:04.

Lord Leveson. On the contrary, all the politicians and key people from

:13:04.:13:10.

News Corporation will be in front of him. Nobody is hiding. You off.

:13:10.:13:15.

No. The Prime Minister will be appearing in front of him. It is

:13:15.:13:21.

far better done, with great respect, by a judge inquiry than us

:13:21.:13:25.

speculating on various bits of the evidence which we have not heard.

:13:25.:13:33.

quite right so that's continued to speculate. -- so let's continue.

:13:33.:13:38.

think it is enormously significant that the minister in question's

:13:38.:13:41.

Permanent Secretary yesterday refused 10 times to say that the

:13:41.:13:47.

man we had never heard of, Adam Smith, had behaved properly. He

:13:47.:13:53.

refused to comment. I think it is enormously significant that Ofcom

:13:53.:13:58.

is also dusting down the way it is looking at the BSkyB bid. They want

:13:58.:14:04.

to look at hacking out to see if there is evidence to see if they

:14:04.:14:13.

are not fit and proper persons... And if I was a better -- a betting

:14:13.:14:19.

woman, which I am thank the Lord, to say that Jeremy Hunt will not be

:14:19.:14:25.

there next week. Absolutely. Tuesday afternoon, the Prime

:14:25.:14:29.

Minister decided that he wanted to keep Jeremy Hunt and a lot of stuff

:14:30.:14:33.

that has flowed from that, comes from that decision. It is

:14:33.:14:38.

significant that for instance people in government do not think

:14:38.:14:42.

there will be a Jeremy Hunt Amex in the Levison report, there might not

:14:42.:14:51.

be a section on him. It is unclear that it is his job to go into the

:14:51.:14:55.

line by line details of a Minister's relationship with his

:14:55.:15:01.

special adviser. That does not seem to cut it. I take a different view.

:15:01.:15:04.

I do not think Jeremy Hunt will necessarily go. I think the

:15:04.:15:08.

government have done an effective political and backroom job to make

:15:08.:15:14.

sure there are not any unexploded bombs. Next week they will hand

:15:14.:15:19.

over e-mails and texts which will not contain anything dangerous,

:15:19.:15:24.

Downing Street Arkley on that. Actually I think there are not any

:15:24.:15:28.

problems on Jeremy Hunt and he will probably end up staying in his job.

:15:28.:15:34.

We shall see. What usually happens is the unknown bit. These stories

:15:34.:15:44.

go places you never think so we Now we admire and love the

:15:44.:15:48.

Financial Times on this programme. Daily Politics researchers are seen

:15:48.:15:55.

scrapping over bits of pink paper from an early hour. Nothing to do

:15:55.:15:59.

with the fact that the editor has been mentioned as a future director

:15:59.:16:04.

general of the BBC, we have always just loved the Financial Times. But

:16:04.:16:07.

we had to take umbrage at one article this week, that dubbed

:16:07.:16:10.

Michael Fallon here, Minister for the Today Programme. Writers of the

:16:10.:16:19.

FT, he's ours. The Daily politics! And Mr Fallon has certainly been

:16:19.:16:28.

busy, batting for the government from dawn to dusk. Like one of

:16:28.:16:32.

these Test-match opening batsman who you cannot get out. After all

:16:32.:16:37.

it's not been the best of months for Mr Cameron. Some have asked,

:16:38.:16:43.

where is Baroness Warsi, Mr Fallon's boss? After all, you can

:16:43.:16:46.

be party chair, or you can be camera shy, you can't surely be

:16:47.:16:56.
:16:57.:17:10.

What is your reaction to those to resign? Two out of two isn't bad.

:17:10.:17:16.

Though a charitable man, I find it... I find it harder to feel

:17:16.:17:26.
:17:26.:17:40.

sorry for Mr Kinnock. The more he That is a second Tory victory being

:17:40.:17:47.

announced. So we have a rival for the leadership. I as party chairman

:17:47.:17:53.

have enjoyed it because most party chairman end up with sniping and

:17:53.:18:03.
:18:03.:18:15.

So, why do we always get the monkey and not the organ grinder? You had

:18:15.:18:20.

Baroness Warsi on this programme just two weeks ago, she was on

:18:20.:18:23.

Newsnight, she did Question Time last week. She is up and down the

:18:23.:18:29.

country. A rich you are on much more than her! Why is that? If all

:18:29.:18:33.

the ministers worked as hard as her getting over the government's

:18:33.:18:37.

message, we wouldn't be as far behind in the polls as we are. She

:18:37.:18:41.

was on this programme last week. you were asked to take the

:18:41.:18:47.

chairman's job, would you accept? We have got a party chairman.

:18:47.:18:53.

if she was to fall on her sword, follow the ways of Adam Smith, I

:18:53.:18:58.

don't mean the 18th century economy, if she was to do that, and her

:18:58.:19:02.

position was to become vacant, would you be up for this? It is not

:19:02.:19:08.

a yes or no, we have got a party chairman. So the answer is No. She

:19:08.:19:12.

has these huge advantage at not being an MP, so she can get out in

:19:12.:19:17.

the country, talking to activists, I saw her on Question Time last

:19:17.:19:24.

week. I don't know if it has quite a big audience... Don't you slag

:19:24.:19:30.

off this programme! She has been on all these programmes, putting the

:19:30.:19:35.

government's message over. They pull the other cabinet minister --

:19:35.:19:38.

if all the other cabinet ministers worked as hard as her, the

:19:38.:19:44.

government would be better shape. Part of your party organisers

:19:44.:19:48.

fundraisers, and it is beamed around the titanic event. Did you

:19:48.:19:54.

serve the same food as on the night of the Titanic went down? You

:19:54.:19:58.

invite Baroness Warsi and you hold it on Friday 13th. What could

:19:58.:20:04.

possibly go wrong?! I wonder. I hadn't heard of that won't. But

:20:04.:20:11.

there have been a lot of a titanic commemoration dinners. They need a

:20:11.:20:18.

strong chairman? They have got two, actually. They are doing a good job.

:20:18.:20:24.

It is a very typical, Sam Coates might agree, but governments get

:20:25.:20:29.

rough periods, and people stop blaming the chairman. They take the

:20:29.:20:36.

incoming fire, and you get this Corus. I'm glad you mentioned Sam

:20:36.:20:44.

Coates. I will just refresh his memory. "he works 25 hours a day,

:20:44.:20:49.

defending the indefensible, he gives a withering looks to certain

:20:49.:20:54.

questions. He is what they need, not a crony. Baroness Warsi is

:20:54.:21:02.

sackable. Please continue. course Michael is chairman in all

:21:02.:21:06.

but name, because few people are willing... All of us want you to

:21:06.:21:12.

get a pay rise, I don't know why you're resisting it! You should get

:21:12.:21:17.

the chairman's salary. The point about this government is that it is

:21:17.:21:24.

interesting how few are prepared... How few cabinet ministers come out

:21:24.:21:28.

and make the core argument about why this government is doing while

:21:28.:21:34.

it is doing. I'm thinking about the charity changes, explaining in

:21:34.:21:39.

public why the change was made in the Budget, or the NHS changes.

:21:39.:21:44.

There is always a bit missing in the speeches, justifying why the

:21:44.:21:49.

changes are being made. So there is a bigger shyness about this crop of

:21:49.:21:53.

politicians, about exploding to the public are difficult things they

:21:53.:21:58.

are doing, they don't want to be boxed in and say difficult things,

:21:58.:22:03.

but Michael is one of the few who does. One of the things going wrong

:22:03.:22:09.

with this government, and is a reason why it is in trouble is

:22:09.:22:15.

because they have not got the strategic situation sorted out of

:22:15.:22:20.

who is doing what and where. George Osborne is in charge of policy

:22:20.:22:25.

making, and bring the economy into the ground. Who is the chairman of

:22:25.:22:32.

the Labour Party? I know my place. Harriet Harman. I don't want her

:22:32.:22:40.

job, she is in charge, I do what she tells me. But he is the general

:22:40.:22:49.

secretary? Ian McNicol. We used to have people in these executive

:22:49.:22:53.

position to which stand up to the leadership of the party. That is

:22:53.:22:58.

not happening at Central Office. used to have general secretary is

:22:58.:23:00.

attacking their leader from there rostrum of the Labour Party

:23:00.:23:05.

conference, we have moved beyond that. Michael Fallon, you have been

:23:05.:23:10.

a good sport, so you will have the last word. I was trying to say, I

:23:10.:23:15.

think Sam makes a good point, it is up to all ministers to defend the

:23:15.:23:20.

government commission be left to Baroness Warsi ought to me. We saw

:23:20.:23:25.

Michael go out on Wednesday defending the decision over Leveson,

:23:25.:23:30.

and ministers have got to do that. It cannot be left to David Cameron

:23:30.:23:35.

or George Osborne or Baroness Warsi. You have a train to catch. The

:23:35.:23:41.

Harry Potter Express. constituency. Tom Watson, Michael

:23:41.:23:45.

Fallon, thank you for being with us. Now, the last few days have seen

:23:45.:23:48.

allegations of widespread postal fraud and vote harvesting in the

:23:48.:23:50.

London borough of Tower Hamlets. Labour and Conservative councillors

:23:50.:23:52.

have written to the Electoral Commission detailing instances

:23:52.:23:57.

where they believe postal fraud may have occurred. The Electoral

:23:57.:23:59.

Commission has passed the allegations on to the Metropolitan

:23:59.:24:06.

Police who are now investigating. To find out more we can speak to

:24:06.:24:08.

one of the MPs for the Tower Hamlets area, Labour's Jim

:24:08.:24:18.

Fitzpatrick. Mr Fitzpatrick, thank you for joining us. Tell us what do

:24:18.:24:22.

you know has been happening in Tower Hamlets? We have been

:24:22.:24:26.

concerned for some time about allegations of voting

:24:26.:24:32.

irregularities, there was a council by-election in the Spitalfields

:24:32.:24:38.

ward, last week, and as a result of that, residents have registered a

:24:38.:24:41.

number of concerns with some of my councillor colleagues over

:24:41.:24:48.

potential voter fraud, coast applications, people suggested who

:24:48.:24:53.

had voted, who had moved away or had died. Somebody who apparently

:24:53.:24:59.

supposed to be in prison. I have got no idea ability -- the validity

:25:00.:25:03.

of these allegations, but what we thought was appropriate to do was

:25:03.:25:08.

pass on these concerns to the authorities, and the matter has

:25:08.:25:12.

been referred to the Electoral Commission and the police, they are

:25:12.:25:16.

investigating. It is up to the operative to examine the

:25:16.:25:21.

allegations and see if there is any truth in them. In the working have

:25:21.:25:25.

been giving, and the work of your colleagues in the local Labour

:25:25.:25:30.

Party, do you have any sense, I know this is just anecdotal, but

:25:30.:25:35.

any sense of how widespread you think this is? No, we haven't.

:25:35.:25:42.

Tower Hamlets, as you know, is a dynamic, exciting political

:25:42.:25:48.

landscape. We got rid of the BNP in 1993, we have got rid of the

:25:48.:25:54.

Respect party, he has been resurrected in Bradford West, sadly,

:25:54.:25:59.

but a lot of dynamism in Tower Hamlets politics. They're always a

:25:59.:26:03.

distant and stories and anecdotes, but when a residents raised

:26:03.:26:11.

concerns which to us seemed worth reporting, it is our duty to report

:26:11.:26:15.

them to the authorities. It is a complicated political position in

:26:15.:26:22.

Tower Hamlets. Let me summarise it for our viewers, and see if it is

:26:22.:26:26.

relevant to potential fraud, but you have a Mayor who was in the

:26:26.:26:33.

Labour Party, but isn't any more. He was backed by Ken Livingstone

:26:33.:26:41.

against the Labour candidate to become a Mayor, and Mr Rahman is

:26:42.:26:46.

now backing Mr Livingstone to be Mayor? Is that the situation,

:26:46.:26:50.

roughly, and is that relevant? Could Livingstone didn't endorse

:26:50.:26:57.

his candidature Je, but I understand Mr Rahman is supporting

:26:57.:27:04.

can's campaign. He is looking at the two differences between Boris

:27:04.:27:08.

and Ken Livingstone, and the Tower Hamlets, the biggest issue is

:27:08.:27:13.

housing. Ken Livingstone's has a policy when he was Mayor was much

:27:13.:27:18.

better for Tower Hamlets -- housing policy. So it is night and day

:27:18.:27:23.

between the two on that core policy, so why would be surprised if people

:27:23.:27:31.

in Tower Hamlets didn't support Ken Livingstone. But the London mayoral

:27:31.:27:37.

election could be close, polls suggest it might be close, so

:27:37.:27:41.

electoral irregularities become very serious. Should we be

:27:41.:27:45.

suspicious, all right to be suspicious that so many people have

:27:45.:27:50.

recently applied for postal votes in Tower Hamlets? Well, as I said

:27:50.:27:55.

at the beginning, we have been concerned for some time, we monitor

:27:55.:27:59.

the situation very carefully, we know that we have problems with

:27:59.:28:02.

people joining the Labour Party over a number of years to have been

:28:02.:28:05.

signed up, there are suggestions that their membership has been paid

:28:05.:28:09.

by people who needed their boats to suggest candidates for local

:28:09.:28:16.

government. We have worked very hard with the council and the

:28:16.:28:18.

Electoral Registration Office declined Tower Hamlets's act up,

:28:18.:28:23.

and when we get allegations such as those, we obviously want to make

:28:23.:28:28.

sure that these are examined very closely. So if there is fraud, and

:28:28.:28:34.

I am saying it if, it can be nailed, and those responsible can be held

:28:34.:28:38.

to account and prosecuted vigorously, because this is the

:28:38.:28:44.

essence of our democracy, to have openness, transparency and honesty.

:28:44.:28:48.

I understand that, but we know the way it works with postal votes, it

:28:48.:28:53.

ends up in a particular household, these postal votes are then

:28:53.:28:56.

harvested, the people who have the bird macro are not the ones are

:28:56.:29:03.

filling it in, NGC are all sorts of boats being filled in by the same

:29:03.:29:07.

person or group. Is it the best way to make sure that doesn't happen is

:29:07.:29:11.

to go back to the old system, you only got a postal vote if you were

:29:11.:29:17.

not in the country at the time of the election? If you were going to

:29:17.:29:22.

be in Tower Hamlets, you didn't have. This is dynamic democracy,

:29:22.:29:26.

and there are changes all the time. The tightening up of the rules of

:29:26.:29:31.

postal voting, making sure the applications are valid, and now the

:29:31.:29:35.

requirements for signatures and date of birth, to validate the

:29:35.:29:41.

forms, means they are more easily identifiable if they are fraudulent.

:29:41.:29:45.

So if there are fraudulent forms being used, that should be able to

:29:45.:29:49.

be demonstrated much more easily than previously, when people to

:29:49.:29:55.

harvest them, and could send them in. So checking to see if the voter

:29:55.:29:59.

still lives at the address, is alive, not in prison, if these

:29:59.:30:05.

allegations can be checked by the authorities, that would clean the

:30:05.:30:09.

act up, and in that instant, postal voting can be convenient for people,

:30:09.:30:14.

especially those working, with children, shift workers. I did in

:30:14.:30:19.

postal voting itself is a bad thing, -- I don't think postal voting

:30:19.:30:29.
:30:29.:30:33.

Sam Coates. Let me come to you first. In Tower Hamlets, if there

:30:33.:30:38.

is an irregularity, the beneficiary is Ken Livingstone. That would seem

:30:38.:30:43.

to be clear. If the election is very close, this is potentially a

:30:43.:30:50.

huge story. We have seen during ministers make exactly that point.

:30:50.:30:56.

-- Tory ministers. Postal fraud has been prevalent in Britain in

:30:56.:31:02.

different parts of the country. Done by different groups. It is a

:31:02.:31:06.

very serious matter and if the result is close, we could be

:31:06.:31:11.

heading for the court. Eventually what is happening in Tower Hamlets

:31:11.:31:15.

is there are two distinct parts of the Bangladeshi community and you

:31:15.:31:19.

have different politicians using different tactics to try to get one

:31:19.:31:23.

and the other side on board. You see this in Birmingham and you

:31:23.:31:29.

probably saw it in Bradford with George Galloway, how reluctant

:31:29.:31:33.

politicians are to spell out the claims of tactics they use when

:31:33.:31:38.

they are in those areas, as opposed to how they talk about how they try

:31:38.:31:43.

to attract those voters. Jim Fitzpatrick just said, I think they

:31:43.:31:47.

preferred Ken Livingstone's manifesto. I suspect they have

:31:47.:31:50.

specific techniques they use in Tower Hamlets that they do not want

:31:50.:31:57.

to tell us about. Not only is postal voting a problem but

:31:57.:32:01.

personification is also easy to do once you have people registered as

:32:01.:32:06.

living in your house, and one of the allegations it there was seven

:32:06.:32:10.

people registered living in one room in Tower Hamlets, and in this

:32:10.:32:17.

recent by-election, someone in prison was on the register. The BBC

:32:17.:32:23.

has been doing quite a lot of this in Tower Hamlets. Had the media,

:32:23.:32:27.

have we not been alive enough to the corruption of our electoral

:32:27.:32:33.

system? Quite right. It is very easy to do. I have a number of

:32:33.:32:39.

people registered in my house who live abroad, I am met on it, and

:32:39.:32:48.

they have a British address. -- I am their Auntie. No, I am not come

:32:48.:32:52.

to personify them, if you are watching, officer! Personified,

:32:52.:32:56.

that means you fill in the ballot papers of all the people

:32:56.:33:03.

registered? Yes. Jim said to they can check signatures. How do they

:33:03.:33:09.

know what people's signatures look like? People signed, yes, I am this

:33:09.:33:15.

person. I could sign my niece's a dress if we wanted to. There is

:33:15.:33:22.

more to go on this. We are talking about London, although it is

:33:22.:33:29.

happening in other parts of the country. Tower Hamlets. Time now to

:33:29.:33:32.

speak to another candidate for London Mayor and today it's the

:33:32.:33:34.

turn of the Liberal Democrat contender, Brian Paddick. First,

:33:34.:33:40.

let's take a look at some of his The former police commander wants

:33:40.:33:43.

an increased emphasis on community sentencing and is proposing the

:33:43.:33:46.

creation of a pay-back programme where criminals are made to do

:33:46.:33:49.

community work like cleaning up graffiti.

:33:49.:33:52.

Mr Paddick wants more training for police to help deal with rape

:33:52.:33:54.

victims and more funding for support groups.

:33:54.:33:57.

He wants a large house building programme and pledges to build

:33:57.:34:03.

360,000 homes in a decade. And there are proposals for cheaper

:34:03.:34:05.

fares for commuters travelling before 7.30am in the morning, as

:34:05.:34:09.

well as a one-hour bus ticket so people can hop on and off busses

:34:09.:34:19.
:34:19.:34:21.

Brian Paddick joins me now. Welcome to the Daily Politics. Thank you.

:34:21.:34:26.

Can I get your reaction to these allegations in Tower Hamlets?

:34:26.:34:31.

moved address six months ago, because my post has been redirected

:34:31.:34:37.

and I used to have a postal ballot, I now have a postal ballot at home

:34:37.:34:42.

and a polling card for me to go in person and vote. It would be very

:34:42.:34:49.

easy for unscrupulous people to vote often and vote early. So you

:34:49.:34:55.

are sure of two! Of course I shall only be using one of those! These a

:34:55.:35:00.

serious allegations about Tower Hamlets. Are we right to take them

:35:00.:35:05.

seriously? Is this an endemic problem in parts of the country?

:35:05.:35:09.

There is a serious problem that needs to be investigated if we are

:35:09.:35:14.

to have confidence in the voting system that we have. The in Athens,

:35:14.:35:19.

you are in a good position in with the election -- in a sense of. You

:35:19.:35:23.

can, is what you want in the pretty certain knowledge that he will

:35:23.:35:29.

never be asked to deliver. A similar question was put to George

:35:29.:35:35.

Galloway a week before he won a by- election in Bradford. This could be

:35:35.:35:42.

the year of four much reality TV show's stars, you never know! --

:35:42.:35:50.

former. He wasn't on 5% of the opinion polls. You are out of date.

:35:50.:35:55.

Has there been a late surge? A poll in the Telegraph today shows me on

:35:55.:36:03.

10.3%. These postal votes really are working! When we did the BBC

:36:03.:36:09.

London debate. Which you did very well, I have to say. Thank you, you

:36:09.:36:15.

have more votes now. We spoke about housing with you and the other

:36:15.:36:20.

candidates and I put a question to you that in a sense, our ambition

:36:20.:36:24.

for house building in the capital has been quite limited. Even the

:36:24.:36:30.

promises are not enough. You are promising more but 360,000 houses

:36:30.:36:34.

over ten years in a city that many people think is already crowded.

:36:34.:36:39.

Where will you put them? That number was not plucked out of thin

:36:39.:36:45.

air. It is because we have identified brownfield sites, not

:36:45.:36:49.

back gardens and green spaces, but brownfield sites, where you can

:36:49.:36:55.

build these homes. Am I right in thinking that one of the powers

:36:55.:37:02.

that is now coming to the London mayor is that the mayor's office is

:37:02.:37:06.

responsible for the land bank, which is about 350 hectares, and

:37:07.:37:14.

has a budget of over �3 billion? It is a big deal, housing policy?

:37:14.:37:18.

mayor effectively have the same powers that the GLC used to have to

:37:18.:37:23.

build social housing. The majority of that land we are talking about

:37:23.:37:30.

are owned by the mayor. So we have the land already. 60% of the cost

:37:30.:37:36.

of building homes in London is the land cost. Take that out of the

:37:36.:37:42.

equation, you can build a 40% and therefore rent of 40% of the value.

:37:42.:37:48.

But how can you pay? We can borrow from the City. Pension funds in

:37:48.:37:52.

Europe and America invest in social housing. In the past it has been

:37:52.:37:58.

office blocks. In this country it has been yet another Westfield

:37:58.:38:03.

shopping centre. But economic times are tough. I would have thought

:38:03.:38:08.

pension funds would have seen this as a much better bet financially to

:38:08.:38:13.

invest in social housing and in the commercial sector. You say you will

:38:13.:38:17.

be tough on crime, and have been a police background obviously helps

:38:17.:38:24.

in that regard, but you have also said that police are wasted on

:38:24.:38:31.

cannabis. It may be right, it may be wrong, but doesn't it undermine

:38:31.:38:36.

your position as, I am a tough guy on crime and I know more about it

:38:36.:38:42.

than you? People misunderstand this. When I was police commander in

:38:42.:38:47.

Lambeth, local people said, crack cocaine and heroin is destroying

:38:47.:38:51.

young people, we are not interested in them being arrested for small

:38:51.:38:56.

amounts of cannabis for their own use. So we concentrated on

:38:56.:39:01.

arresting people for hard drugs. I want the police concentrating on

:39:01.:39:06.

local people's priorities. I was the police commander in Merton in

:39:06.:39:11.

south London before I went to Lambeth. The crime was fairly low.

:39:11.:39:16.

There was no question of not arresting people for cannabis

:39:16.:39:22.

because we had a time to do that. In Lambeth, we had too much crime,

:39:22.:39:27.

we will 100 police of his short, so it was priorities, and that is what

:39:27.:39:36.

this campaign is about -- we were 100 police officers short. It all

:39:36.:39:41.

seems so blue skies and apple pie and it all sounds wonderful, and it

:39:41.:39:47.

isn't going to happen because it is Ken against Boris. Has that been

:39:48.:39:54.

frustrating? The media particularly. Because we right personalities.

:39:54.:40:00.

These are enormous personalities. - - we like personalities. And you

:40:00.:40:04.

like a fight! But the public are fed up with these two scrapping.

:40:04.:40:11.

You will benefit a bit from that but 10.3%, you know. It is not

:40:11.:40:20.

gonna happen. That is what they said to George Galloway! I think

:40:20.:40:26.

the Independent will do very well... Not according to the opinion polls.

:40:26.:40:35.

She is behind the BNP and UKIP. is the media candidate. Sam Coates?

:40:35.:40:40.

I was fascinated about what you said about Tower Hamlets. Do you

:40:40.:40:45.

think if the result between Ken and Boris is very close and there is a

:40:45.:40:49.

big amount of postal fraud in Tower Hamlets, do you think the election

:40:49.:40:54.

could end up in the courts? That is always a possibility. Ken

:40:54.:40:57.

Livingstone desperately wants it because he can't think of anything

:40:57.:41:02.

else to do with his time. He has got his tax returns to do.

:41:02.:41:08.

Boris Johnson is very, very ambitious. If it comes very close

:41:08.:41:12.

and there is a possibility that borrowers can get it by taking up

:41:12.:41:18.

this issue of voter fraud, it could end up in the court. Are you giving

:41:18.:41:21.

any guidance to supporters on where they should put their second

:41:21.:41:26.

preference? No, only on where they should put their first preference,

:41:26.:41:31.

which is to vote Liberal Democrat. You may have a private one but you

:41:31.:41:35.

will not say that. Is it true you go home at lunchtime to watch the

:41:35.:41:40.

Daily Politics? Of course! It is essential viewing! I don't get to

:41:40.:41:45.

do that every day obviously but I am very lucky because the campaign

:41:45.:41:48.

headquarters is around the corner from where I live. They do allow me

:41:48.:41:55.

to feed occasionally on this campaign, which is good. Your

:41:55.:41:59.

campaign can afford it TV! I don't want to interrupt these very busy

:41:59.:42:03.

people who have hard work to do so I would rather go home and watch it

:42:03.:42:09.

there while I eat my sandwich. Brian Paddick, thank you.

:42:09.:42:17.

Now, more elections. We go from London to Scotland. Voters are

:42:17.:42:21.

being asked to choose who they want as their local councillor. But a

:42:21.:42:24.

year after their sweeping victory in the Scottish Parliament in

:42:24.:42:29.

Holyrood, will the SNP still manage to win new supporters? Or are they

:42:29.:42:32.

now the incumbents? And how is Scottish Labour planning to fight

:42:32.:42:38.

back? BBC Scotland's reporter, Laura Bicker, has been looking at

:42:38.:42:44.

the battleground of Glasgow. This local election campaign needs

:42:44.:42:49.

to be the fight back for Labour. But on the Clyde, they are bruised

:42:49.:42:54.

and broken. Splits within the Glasgow party have led to a

:42:54.:42:58.

breakaway group and Scottish Labour's new leader finds herself

:42:58.:43:03.

with a real battle on her hand it's. Our test, not to presume that

:43:03.:43:07.

people will vote, but to go and argue for every vote and that is

:43:07.:43:11.

what has happened across Scotland. Labour members right across

:43:12.:43:16.

Scotland, determined to get the message across that we will put the

:43:16.:43:21.

priorities of people first. fight in Scotland is for more than

:43:21.:43:26.

Glasgow's City Hall. 1200 council seats, all of them, up for grabs.

:43:26.:43:31.

Most of the 32 local authorities are coalitions. The nationalists

:43:31.:43:37.

take the lead in 14 of them. They want at least two more. If the F M

:43:37.:43:45.

B do really well and pick -- if the SNP do really well and pick up

:43:45.:43:50.

control of a couple more councils, then certainly Alex Salmond will be

:43:50.:43:55.

able to say, the people of Scotland are still behind me, that mandate I

:43:55.:43:58.

have got in terms of taking the country forward towards a

:43:58.:44:04.

referendum has been reaffirmed. Westminster politics still cast a

:44:04.:44:08.

long shadow over Scotland. The Liberal Democrat vote in some areas

:44:08.:44:15.

collapsed. But they are hoping to win back at least some support.

:44:15.:44:19.

are coming across a lot of people who voted SNP last year and are

:44:20.:44:24.

worried about them using this as a stepping stone to independence, and

:44:24.:44:28.

as a result, they will not vote for them. They do not want their

:44:29.:44:33.

council services to be used as a tool to get the SNP their stated

:44:33.:44:38.

policy of independence. That has changed since last year. But the

:44:38.:44:43.

Conservatives say they offer something different. The other main

:44:43.:44:48.

party manifestos are fairly similar. The Tories also think they could

:44:48.:44:54.

win votes at the expense of their UK coalition partners. We have been

:44:54.:44:58.

the fourth body of local government in Scotland since 1992. We expect

:44:58.:45:02.

we will be the third and we will increase our voting share so we are

:45:02.:45:07.

looking to improve. But it is the nationalists who on the march,

:45:07.:45:11.

fielding more candidates than ever before. But can they really win

:45:11.:45:16.

Glasgow? The SNP is fighting to win local elections in every single

:45:16.:45:22.

part of Scotland, not just Glasgow. We believe people want good and

:45:22.:45:25.

competent local government, in the same way they want competent

:45:25.:45:31.

national government. The SNP is all about jobs, families and fairness.

:45:32.:45:36.

Even if the SNP do not manage to take Glasgow, the fact that they

:45:36.:45:40.

are being listened to in this city is a sign of how the political

:45:40.:45:45.

landscape has changed. If the nationalists vote across Scotland

:45:45.:45:50.

increases with them -- with a referendum looming, it could have

:45:50.:45:53.

implications for Westminster and it is a voice that David Cameron and

:45:53.:45:58.

the coalition cannot avoid. We can speak to our Scotland

:45:58.:46:07.

It seems to me that the question in Scotland is whether the SNP are

:46:07.:46:11.

still the insurgents or the incumbents, and whether they will

:46:11.:46:16.

make huge gains. Let me start with Glasgow, what is the latest

:46:16.:46:22.

thinking on how that will go? have to go back to 2007, it is one

:46:22.:46:30.

of only two local authorities are where Labour won with an outright

:46:30.:46:33.

majority, but they wouldn't have done so if the SNP had bothered to

:46:34.:46:38.

field more candidates in a proportional election under the

:46:38.:46:42.

single transferable vote. So you can be sure that the nationalists

:46:42.:46:46.

are bothering to field more candidates this time, in the

:46:46.:46:49.

meantime, they have won another national election, and have the

:46:49.:46:54.

momentum of that behind them. So they certainly expect to pick up

:46:54.:46:59.

extra seat, but in truth, under the system, no one party should have an

:46:59.:47:04.

outright majority. A Labour hoped it will still finish as the largest

:47:04.:47:09.

party, the SNP hope that they will finish in that position in the end.

:47:09.:47:15.

It may be that there needs to be some haggling in Glasgow, and some

:47:15.:47:19.

kind of coalition formed to run the city in the future. That in itself

:47:19.:47:23.

will be a big change, because it has been a Labour-dominated city

:47:23.:47:27.

for so many years. Have you the impression that in terms of the

:47:28.:47:31.

campaigning, it is still the Scottish nationalists who have the

:47:31.:47:36.

verve and the drive, and Labour is still very much on the defensive,

:47:36.:47:42.

trying to repair itself on its -- from its recent miserable years?

:47:42.:47:47.

think the Labour Party expect to be the second party of local

:47:47.:47:51.

government after these elections this year, that is the position

:47:51.:47:56.

they are in, and they don't expect this time around to get back into

:47:56.:48:02.

first place. The SNP certainly broke the mould of Scottish

:48:02.:48:06.

politics with the results they achieved in the Scottish parliament

:48:06.:48:10.

last year, people will be looking at these elections are not just to

:48:10.:48:15.

see what happens in each of the 32 local authorities, but the that

:48:15.:48:20.

overall national picture, is the SNP juggernaut still chugging ahead

:48:20.:48:26.

or it is starting to stall? Certainly for nationalists expect

:48:26.:48:29.

to pick up extra council seats across the country, that is

:48:29.:48:33.

important for them for another reason, because they are aiming for

:48:33.:48:38.

the referendum on independence in 2014, and dump more councillors

:48:38.:48:46.

they have locally, the less other parties have. -- de Mort

:48:46.:48:53.

councillors that they have a locally. Just finally, what is the

:48:53.:48:57.

revelation that not only is Alex Salmond of the only major

:48:57.:49:01.

politician who will now be seen in public with Rupert Murdoch, but was

:49:01.:49:07.

prepared to lobby on behalf of Mr Murdoch's company to get BSkyB,

:49:07.:49:11.

what has been the implication of that for the campaigning for him?

:49:11.:49:17.

Alex Salmond has had a bad week, trouble with two tycoons, Donald

:49:17.:49:21.

Trump, who he has previously been close to, turning against him. I

:49:21.:49:26.

don't think these dealings do him any favours, I don't think they

:49:26.:49:31.

would in any vote, but we are talking about local government

:49:31.:49:34.

elections, when the most motivated people are the only ones who tend

:49:34.:49:39.

to turn out, and I guess different people in different places

:49:39.:49:43.

Northwest Airlines Flight 253 for different reasons. In Edinburgh,

:49:43.:49:48.

there is one big local election, with the runaway tram project,

:49:48.:49:52.

people saying they were used polling day to punish the

:49:52.:49:55.

politicians and parties they believe are responsible for that

:49:55.:50:01.

particular mess. Thank you for that. The problem is that the trams do

:50:01.:50:09.

not even work yet. After several hundred million pounds! There we go,

:50:09.:50:16.

Glasgow, an important battleground, just as London is. We will be here

:50:16.:50:21.

on the BBC on May 3rd. So, it's been a week of ups and downs. Two

:50:21.:50:24.

penguins in Scarborough are said to be making a full recovery after a

:50:24.:50:32.

break-in left them depressed. The Huddersfield MP, Barry Sheerman got

:50:32.:50:35.

upset over a bacon butty and Prince William gave a passionate speech

:50:35.:50:38.

demanding protection for endangered cats. Yes, it's been a busy few

:50:38.:50:43.

days. Other things may have happened as well! Here's Susannah

:50:43.:50:53.
:50:53.:50:53.

It is official, we're in a double dip, but the government isn't

:50:53.:50:57.

budging on austerity, recession or no recession. Was this the week of

:50:57.:51:03.

the Murdoch's revenge? He told us Gordon Brown was an balanced, and

:51:03.:51:08.

we found out how close the media mogul is to his papers. If any

:51:08.:51:12.

politician wanted my opinions on major matters, they only had to

:51:12.:51:17.

read the editorial in The Sun. other Murdoch put the culture

:51:17.:51:23.

secretary in the firing line over the BSkyB bid. Jeremy Hunt has

:51:23.:51:27.

dodged the bonnet so far. A rare bit of glitz and glamour at the

:51:27.:51:33.

select committee, when Russell Brand Through in a gag about Abu

:51:33.:51:39.

Qatada. We cannot run out of time. And his next, Theresa May? She may

:51:39.:51:46.

not show up! And the baker's descended to tell the government is

:51:46.:51:52.

a shambles of a budget was half- baked.

:51:52.:51:58.

I knew other things had been happening, thanks! When the froth

:51:58.:52:03.

has settled over Murdoch and the pastiche, and the charity tax and

:52:03.:52:08.

so on, one thing doesn't go away, and may not for some time. The fact

:52:08.:52:12.

we are in recession, and even if technically we come out of it again,

:52:12.:52:17.

the best you can say is it this economy is flat mining, and the

:52:17.:52:23.

political implications for coalition are enormous. When you

:52:23.:52:26.

consider this government is in place and set itself up as the

:52:26.:52:29.

government that will deal with the deficit, and recession means that

:52:29.:52:34.

the deficit is not going to go away, they're not going to clear it by

:52:34.:52:39.

the next election, I think there is a real political problem. The

:52:39.:52:45.

politics over what to do about the deficit is becoming a rictus, they

:52:45.:52:54.

have ossified between the stick with a Plan B -- plan a or not. I

:52:54.:52:58.

think they're a lot of things you can be half way in between. But

:52:58.:53:04.

undoubtedly come when you get to 2015, you will see the

:53:04.:53:06.

Conservatives are attack from the right for not bringing down public

:53:06.:53:09.

spending more, and attacked by Labour for not dealing with the

:53:09.:53:14.

deficit. All of this is mounting up to be a significant political

:53:14.:53:18.

challenge. The position they could find themselves in is, if it sticks

:53:18.:53:26.

with Plan A, it is staffed, and did it doesn't, it is stuffed. Discuss!

:53:26.:53:31.

Attic or probably find the government -- will probably find

:53:31.:53:36.

the government coming up against it before then, this government will

:53:36.:53:42.

not be hugely enthusiastic about these policies. In a way it is

:53:42.:53:47.

lucky for Cameron that there has been at the Murdoch distraction of

:53:47.:53:52.

this week, it hasn't played well for them either, but it has taken

:53:52.:53:57.

away from this, which is by far the at standing political issue of our

:53:57.:54:04.

day. -- the outstanding. It is in a sense, in terms of the fall-out,

:54:04.:54:10.

which is why I emphasised Glasgow and London, because if Labour

:54:11.:54:18.

cannot win with Mr Livingstone and his glass go to the SNP, on a 4th,

:54:19.:54:22.

despite the ways of the government, the story becomes Ed Miliband again.

:54:22.:54:27.

I think there is a national story to tell, but it is more mixed than

:54:27.:54:33.

that. The Labour Party may never recover in Scotland and will find

:54:33.:54:36.

it hard to form an overall government for the foreseeable

:54:36.:54:39.

future, but also that the Conservatives in the North of

:54:39.:54:43.

England and some parts of the South West are going backwards as well

:54:43.:54:48.

for, and will not themselves be able to form a government. So I

:54:48.:54:52.

suspect that what next Thursday will tell us is there isn't any

:54:52.:54:56.

great queue and cry from one side or another, there is more of what

:54:56.:55:01.

we saw in 2010 and we may be muddling through to another

:55:01.:55:11.

coalition. And huge into the Peter both major parties. Which Mr Galic

:55:11.:55:16.

capitalised on. And now for something completely different.

:55:16.:55:20.

Being arrested isn't a lesson, it is just an AD appears to dig a blip.

:55:20.:55:25.

You need to demonstrate an awareness of the situation. The

:55:25.:55:30.

disease and condition of addiction does exacerbate it, if you were

:55:30.:55:35.

taking expensive drugs, you will end up committing picking --

:55:35.:55:39.

committing a crime, but we need to identify a degree of compassion,

:55:39.:55:44.

otherwise you look what you don't know what you're talking about. You

:55:44.:55:49.

can tell what party they are in from their questions. What about

:55:49.:55:53.

the victims of the crime! I think all the parties are interested in

:55:53.:56:01.

that. Of course we are, we're not saying, ignore the victims. We are

:56:01.:56:05.

running out of time. Time is in for that, we cannot run out of time.

:56:05.:56:14.

Who is next, Theresa May, she may not show up! It is not quite a

:56:14.:56:17.

variety show have fostered the EU are providing a bit of variety,

:56:18.:56:27.

making it more like Dad's Army. You have a 4.5 million twitter dollars,

:56:27.:56:32.

having gone through addiction and Rehabilitation, what is your

:56:32.:56:36.

message to young people who want to get involved in drugs, what could

:56:36.:56:40.

you say to them about the effect it has? My message isn't for young

:56:40.:56:44.

people, it is by people who have this condition up addiction. If you

:56:44.:56:49.

have that condition, there is help available for you, and I recommend

:56:49.:56:53.

abstinence based recovery. I think some people can safely take drugs,

:56:53.:56:57.

as long as it doesn't turn them into criminals, I did feel it is

:56:57.:57:06.

any of my business. -- I don't feel. His parliament right to reach out

:57:06.:57:12.

to these figures, or is it making a fool of itself? I think he

:57:12.:57:17.

delivered an important message there, and a touch -- it is

:57:17.:57:23.

probably a good thing. Do you people listen to Russell Brand any

:57:23.:57:29.

more than Keith Vaz on drugs? don't think that Keith Vaz has 4.5

:57:29.:57:34.

million twitter far worse. Following and listening are

:57:34.:57:42.

different things. But we are assuming that if Bristol branch

:57:42.:57:45.

does say things, people do pay attention, do we have evidence for

:57:45.:57:53.

that -- Russell Brand. I do think making Parliament relevant to the

:57:53.:58:00.

next generation... He was grandstanding. But I do think that

:58:00.:58:03.

politicians are always seen as a money permitting things like drug

:58:03.:58:07.

addiction for their own ends, and playing to their audiences, rather

:58:07.:58:11.

than helping those who were suffering, so I think there are

:58:11.:58:16.

gains on both sides. We will leave it there. Thank you very much, it

:58:16.:58:23.

was good to see you both. It has been a busy week. We are going to

:58:23.:58:28.

prepare for the weekend. Thanks to all our guests. If you want to see

:58:28.:58:31.

the full list of candidates standing for the election of the

:58:31.:58:40.

London Mayor, just got to the BBC website a. I will be back on BBC

:58:40.:58:46.

Andrew Neil with the latest political news including calls for an inquiry into the behaviour of culture secretary Jeremy Hunt. There are interviews with Conservative MP Michael Fallon, Labour's Tom Watson and the Liberal Democrat London mayoral candidate, Brian Paddick.


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