Browse content similar to 06/09/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon. Welcome to The Daily Politics. Planning a | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
conservatory? Fancy a fancy car gadge? David Cameron and Nick Clegg | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
hope you are. Also on the table, plans for more affordable homes. We | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
will ask if it is enough. Labour don't think so, they have been | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
talking about their own plans for economic growth this morning - roll | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
on the wealth tax. They have flown the flag for Britain and inspired a | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
nation. Have our Paralympians changed our opinions towards | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
disabled people. Nicola Sturgeon will fly the flag for Scotland, | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
hoping to win the argument for Scottish independence. We will talk | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
to her later. Giles is enjoying the sunshine outside. I am. I am | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
looking on the bright side. I am looking for economic growth. I will | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
talk to three entrepreneur, that despite the recession, are leading | :01:35. | :01:44. | |
the way. Who would have thought it - it was down to flooring, phone | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
apps and fruit cakes. With me is the journalist and author Melanie | :01:49. | :01:53. | |
Phillips. Welcome to the show. First today, let's start with a | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
question - are burglars brave? Yes, brave! That is what a judge said | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
yesterday when sentencing a burglar at Teesside Crown Court. He | :02:05. | :02:09. | |
reportedly told the criminal it took a huge amount of courage to | :02:09. | :02:16. | |
burgle a house, and he said that prison rarely does anybody any good. | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
This morning the Prime Minister gave his reaction. It is a | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
despicable crime. You know, I am very clear that people who | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
repeatedly burgle should be sent to prison. I have not seen this | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
specific case. Judges sometimes say things - you have to read the full | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
context. It is not bravery, burglary is a hateful crime. People | :02:42. | :02:48. | |
sometimes say it is not a violent crime, but if you have been burgled, | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
you feel it is violent. This is high the Government is changing the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
law, to toughen the rules on self- defence, saying householders do | :02:56. | :03:01. | |
have the right to defend themselves. We had a case the other day. I will | :03:01. | :03:11. | |
:03:11. | :03:13. | ||
have to look at what the judge said. Well the Prime Minister in no doubt | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
about what should happen to burglars - what do you think about | :03:18. | :03:25. | |
what the judge said? It was a comment so dafr you had to read it | :03:25. | :03:31. | |
three times. As the Prime Minister said, burglary is never brave. One | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
cannot imagine what was in this judge's mind. The judge was within | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
his rights not to send the guy to prison. The sentencing guidelines | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
allow him not to improz a -- impose a custodial sentence. He was | :03:47. | :03:52. | |
impressed by the fact the guy has turned around his life, apparently. | :03:52. | :04:01. | |
Well, the judge is entitled to his opinion, but the rest of us are | :04:01. | :04:09. | |
within our rights to be cynical. Pretty damning about the whole | :04:09. | :04:15. | |
prison service? For the hapless populous who is being burgled is it | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
takes a burglar out of the environment. If he explained the | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
burglary about this man being able to turn his life around, would a | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
community sentence, a fine and being monitored ever be enough to | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
substitute a jail sentence? cannot put wupbs in the position of | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
the judge. He did set out those reasons to some extent. It is a | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
matter of judgment. If you have a serial burglar, I am afraid I am | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
cynical about someone turning their life around. Many people would | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
agree with you. The other issue is self-defence. We had the other | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
issue on intruders. The law says reasonable force can be used. Was | :04:57. | :05:03. | |
that reasonable force? I believe so. Again one does not know the full | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
detail, but as far as one could see the householder in question | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
encountered burglars breaking into his house. He happened to have a | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
shotgun. He used what came to hand to defend himself, his property and | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
his life, as far as he was concerned, against intruders. That | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
is a perfectly reasonable supposition for him to make that he | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
was at risk. The law allows him to make that assumption. Therefore he | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
did not commit a crime. Should he have been arrested and held? | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
don't think so. I think that was a heavy reaction by the police, who | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
seemed not to have understood quite what had happened in this | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
circumstance. It obviously it stiblgs in the core for someone who | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
has been -- sticks to the core for someone who has been burgled. The | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
law is very clear - you must not assault, attack or fire upon a | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
burglar, if for example he has turned his back and is fleeing, | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
because that is revenge. If you genuinely think your life, limb and | :06:04. | :06:10. | |
property are under attack you are entitled to take whatever | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
reasonable defence is at hand. David Cameron and Nick Clegg want | :06:14. | :06:22. | |
you to add a conservatory to your house. They want to boost it by | :06:22. | :06:28. | |
easing planning. The Prime Minister and his deputy have been setting | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
out the proposed changes. Under the new rules, homeowners would be able | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
to make more changes to their homes without planning permission. | :06:36. | :06:44. | |
Conservatives and other single -- conservatorys rather than | :06:44. | :06:48. | |
Conservatives! They can be built four metres away | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
from detached houses. From 2015 they will be doubled. Bigger | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
extensions will be doubled though. The Government wants more new | :06:56. | :07:01. | |
houses to be built. They are reducing obligations on some | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
developers to build affordable homes. There'll be more money for | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
the FirstBuy scheme. The aim - to kick-start the | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
building of 75,000 new homes. The boost is needed because the | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
construction sector is the worst performing part of the economy. It | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
shrunk by 9% in the first half of the year. This is what the Deputy | :07:21. | :07:25. | |
Prime Minister said this morning. What we are doing today is we're | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
doing a bunch of things to create more homes, more affordable homes | :07:29. | :07:37. | |
and more jobs. We are doing that by removing some of the bureaucracy | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
and hassle - and getting house builders to put shovels in the | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
ground. We are helping people with their first time mortgages. We are | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
putting up �300 million to build up to 15,000 affordable homes to. | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
Bring 5,000 empty homes back into use and really importantly, we are | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
putting up �10 billion worth of Government guarantees to house | :07:57. | :08:03. | |
builter sos they can lower the cost that they face and get them | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
building again. Nick Clegg explaining the plans. Will it be as | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
simple as the coalition hopes? The Government will find out changing | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
the planning system does not always work as as plans. Eric Pickles is | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
being taken to court by a council who says he has broken his own | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
rules by letting local people say what gets built where. The site for | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
a decisive battle between the war of the roses, now Teweksbury is | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
fighting the Conservative Community Secretary. It is over proposals to | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
develop a nearby village. Two different builters want to | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
build two new developments, side by side, right here. Overall, it is | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
about 1,000 new houses, a couple of offices, a community centre and | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
some sport pitches. It it's all in the shadow of the highest point in | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
the Cotswold. Locals are furious. There's been enough building going | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
on here. It is time to put a halt on it. The village has grown so | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
much over the past 20 years and the facilitys can not take any more. | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
Objections like that led Teweksbury Borough Council to oppose the | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
application last spring. The developers then won an appeal, | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
which Eric Pickles backed in July this year. Now the council are | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
going to the High Court to challenge the Government's decision. | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
The case should be heard in a few months' time. Councillors didn't | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
want to talk to us for legal reasons. The local MP was happy to | :09:37. | :09:42. | |
vent his theory. I want to see it change so local people who know the | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
area, who know how many houses are necessary, they actually have | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
something to say. I thought we were going down that road. I think the | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
Government indicated I wanted to go down that road. We have to push it | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
in that direction. If Eric Pickles was here now, what would you say? | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
would perhaps better not repeat it. There is the issue. The Government | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
wants more stuff built, yet at the same time has told communities they | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
have more power to stop things being built. Planning experts can | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
see trouble on the horizon. I think a lot of people I speak to do | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
realise you cannot just say, no I do not want any development, but | :10:19. | :10:25. | |
clearly you will have NIMBYism, you will have banana build nothing and | :10:25. | :10:30. | |
nothing near me any time. That is the problem. That is kind of what I | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
found here. You know who the biggest bananas are here? The | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
people who have moved into brand new houses which have just been | :10:39. | :10:49. | |
:10:49. | :10:51. | ||
built. We like that, "Banana." With me is Clyde Loakes, we are | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
joined also by Stephen Littlechild from the Institute of Economic | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
Affairs. Welcome to both of you. Starting with you, the planning | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
process has been the block on building new homes? That is not so. | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
We are a ten-year high with councils planning planning | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
applications for new houses: We have 400,000 new homes ready to get | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
off the blocks. We have enough for the next three years if we didn't | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
do any more planning applications. Why aren't they being built? | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
Developers are sitting on their hands. I think they are waiting for | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
the Government to make the announcement, like today, where | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
they can maximise and get more profit out of their schemes, rather | :11:30. | :11:37. | |
than reflexing on the mixed, sustainable communities we at local | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
councils want build. Is ate a myth that they have been the -- it has | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
been a myth that they have been the block to reform. There will be a | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
range of different reasons why they would not have been developed yet. | :11:51. | :11:57. | |
We have in Britain one of the most complex planning systems you could | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
design. In other European countries you can almost move from the | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
drawing board to the first shovel in the ground in a number of weeks. | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
Here it can take years. We have to be realise tick about the lands we | :12:09. | :12:14. | |
have available. It is all right if you are on the property ladder, you | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
are sitting pretty. If you are not on it there is not enough stock. We | :12:18. | :12:24. | |
only have about 10% of the entirety of this country developed. We can | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
do a lot more building without any worries that all our green and | :12:28. | :12:34. | |
pleasant land is not destroyed. Isn't that the point, successive | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
Governments have not built enough homes. Shouldn't there been a | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
quicker planning process? We have a good planning process in this | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
country. 400,000 plots ready to go. The real issue here is what | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
developments are not doing. They are stalling. They are waiting to | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
maximise profits. The issue is about the liquidity of the mortgage | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
and finance markets that allow people to get that first step on | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
the ladder. We are here, as local councils, long after the developers | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
have gone. We know the sorts of developments we want to have built. | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
We should have every justification. We are accountable to local people | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
to make those decisions and take those schemes forward. We have a | :13:14. | :13:21. | |
system which encourages nimbyism. It is rational to be a NIMBY, as in | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
that exact. If you own a �500 million house you will be against | :13:27. | :13:36. | |
the low -- �500,000 house you will be against it. The choice is not, | :13:36. | :13:45. | |
do you want this field built on or not, it is, if you do we'll lower | :13:45. | :13:52. | |
your council tax. We have to have a better compensation culture. What | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
do you think in terms of a case of lack of demand, rather than | :13:57. | :14:02. | |
planning - blocking the process, before we get on to the question of | :14:02. | :14:08. | |
NIMBYism? Well, I think that planning laws may well need | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
reforming, may need streamlining. I cannot really see that the planning | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
issue is the key issue. As I understand it, as we have heard, | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
there are many other issues which are preventing house builders from | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
building. For example, the commitment they have to build | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
affordable housing. It is a good thing? It may or may not. It is | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
holding them up. The comparison with France - France is very | :14:34. | :14:39. | |
ruthless, but France can afford to be ruthless. It is an enormous | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
country. We have an overcrowded country. This lady in Teweksbury. | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
Look at that wonderful scenery, look at that fantastic environment | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
they have. There is a limit to house building beyond which one | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
loses ameem knittys. We don't have enough homes because there are | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
400,000 plots which have been designated for homes which are not | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
built on. There is also brownfield development, which is not happening, | :15:05. | :15:15. | |
:15:15. | :15:17. | ||
for a variety of reasons. Will this We are not going to see enormous | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
GDP growth because a handful of people start building | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
conservatories in their back garden. It smells of panic by the | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
Chancellor. He is desperate to get the economy kick started. He | :15:30. | :15:38. | |
doesn't want to take the moves he has to take to do that. So he is he | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
is encouraging house building, a few conservatories will kick start | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
house building, it is crackers. Even if people are able to build | :15:47. | :15:52. | |
conservatories and extensions is the demand there? Is there a | :15:52. | :15:58. | |
backlog of people saying, "We don't want to move, we want to invest in | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
our homes?". There is a reason why permitted development is as it is | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
and that's to protect the eye the amenity of neighbours. That's to | :16:08. | :16:15. | |
ensure quality in the pllds and to stop -- bllds -- bllds and to stop | :16:15. | :16:21. | |
our gardens being developed in a fluffy way. It is a naive view to | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
suggest that's going to stimulate growth. | :16:25. | :16:29. | |
The Government introducing the national policy framework this year. | :16:29. | :16:35. | |
The fact that the new prosals are come come -- proposals are coming, | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
is that an admission that didn't work? This is, I think for a | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
Conservative dominated Government an extremely difficult issue. We | :16:45. | :16:51. | |
have seen Tewkesbury, that's Tory heartland where the whole issue | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
surrounding Heathrow and the third runway goes to the same issue. You | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
have You have got two problems, it is not just that people don't want | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
a load of building next to them, if we build the houses we need in the | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
United Kingdom, you will see property prices fall. If you own a | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
descent property, you could suffer as a result. | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
That brings us to another point. The Bank of England is keeping | :17:13. | :17:18. | |
interest rates at the same level at 0.5%. You just raised the point if | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
outside London particularly in the South East, house prices start to | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
fall, is it the right strategy of the Government to be encouraging | :17:25. | :17:30. | |
first-time buyers to take on deposits even if they are getting | :17:30. | :17:35. | |
help with paying mortgages for the first few years. If prices come | :17:35. | :17:39. | |
down, these people could find themselves in difficulty? First- | :17:39. | :17:46. | |
time buyers are in difficulties and that is an unfortunate fact and we | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
need more affordable housing. We need ways in which first-time | :17:51. | :17:59. | |
buyers can be encouraged to buy houses. Because the way people, | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
families are splitting up. More people are living alone. What was | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
one household becomes two or three households and there is the issue | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
of immigration and all these things feed into this housing problem. You | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
can't isolate housing problems. The lack of housing and say, "We just | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
reformed the planning laws." You have a bunch of very controversial | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
social policies wrapped up in this. I am going to have to say goodbye | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
to you two. Thank you very much. | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
Ed Miliband and the Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, have been | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
setting o out their ideas on the idea. They have been arguing that | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
the recession demands a new look. This is what Ed Miliband had to say | :18:40. | :18:50. | |
:18:50. | :18:50. | ||
earlier. It was harder for New Labour to be | :18:51. | :18:56. | |
the party to reform it. And that is the key for us in the future. Today, | :18:56. | :19:06. | |
:19:06. | :19:07. | ||
clear about the role of markets, we can more confidently with the | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
people who see that the rules need to change. Urgent if we are to | :19:12. | :19:21. | |
tackle the issue of redistribution. We We won't compete if we remain a | :19:21. | :19:27. | |
low wage, low skill economy. Joining me now is Shadow Treasury | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
Minister, Chris Leslie. This morning, we have been hearing terms | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
from the Labour leadership about moving from redistribution to | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
predistribution, what is that? you have got to look at it through | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
the prism of the current environment we're in. We are in an | :19:44. | :19:49. | |
economic climate where clearly growth is not coming to fruition. | :19:49. | :19:53. | |
We are worried that we are not going to have the revenues coming | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
into the exchequer in the way that they used to do and in those | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
circumstances as Labour politicians, we want to create a fairer society. | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
How do we do that? It won't be as simple as using tax receipts in | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
order to distribute those to create a fairer society. | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
So Labour are moving away from a tax credit system? No, we want to | :20:14. | :20:19. | |
still do that. If we get a return to economic growth, we want to make | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
society as fair as we can. The question we have to ask is - are | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
there ways of looking at other aspects of society, for example? | :20:26. | :20:32. | |
Descent quality skilled jobs that pay well. That have descent quality, | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
circumstances for employees... Everyone wants that? They do. | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
What are you going to do? What's the magic bullet that Labour has | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
got? The point the leader of the Labour Party is making this morning, | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
it is not just about the Government spending money, it is about | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
industry. It is about employers changing behaviour, having a better | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
relationship with their staff, and improving the quality of the | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
workplace for example. Whether that will create jobs, I | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
don't know, it sounds like Labour has come to the conclusion there is | :21:01. | :21:05. | |
no money left to spend. Also you are considering a wealth tax on | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
high value properties, very much the Liberal Democrats policy. What | :21:07. | :21:13. | |
is a high value property? Where would you put it at? You are a few | :21:13. | :21:19. | |
steps ahead. Vince Cable was speculating about whether we should | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
have a mansion tax. Ed Balls says this is something you | :21:23. | :21:26. | |
have sympathy. Ed was asked and we want to see the | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
details. It is an interesting proposition. We don't have the | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
details of whether it will be one off or whether it is something he | :21:33. | :21:37. | |
thinks needs to think. The Shadow Chancellor would like it | :21:37. | :21:47. | |
:21:47. | :21:50. | ||
to be a a permanent tax? Poor old Vince has various various lasus | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
thrown around him. The Shadow Chancellor put an offer to Vince | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
Cable, let's discuss these things. What do you like about it? | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
thing we have got to do is recognise we would keep the 50 | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
pence top rate of income tax as a prefer rable way of having a fairer | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
tax system. You would keen the 50 pence top | :22:11. | :22:15. | |
rate of tax and you would be sympathetic to the idea of tax on | :22:15. | :22:20. | |
unearned wealth? Because the Government have cut that 50 pence | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
rate to 45p and they are looking to other people to pay the gap, | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
pensioners and ordinary working people. And we think that's unfair. | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
If the Business Secretary has got a suggestion about other fairer ways | :22:33. | :22:39. | |
of raising taxes, well we'll hear what he has got to say. | :22:39. | :22:46. | |
The suggestion is on properties above �2 million. Well... With the | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
greatest respect, we don't know. Would that be palatable? We will | :22:49. | :22:53. | |
look at the details, but there are disadvantages to sometimes looking | :22:53. | :22:57. | |
at what you might called fixed assets. You can find people who | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
have high value capital assets, but don't have liquid income in order | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
to pay charges upon that. This was one of the arguments had about | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
council tax banding. If you end up with circumstances where a widow | :23:11. | :23:16. | |
who perhaps had a family background with great income, finds herself in | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
a family property, but can't pay the tax, you have got to be | :23:20. | :23:27. | |
sensitive to circumstances where some people... This is politically | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
motivated. It looks as if you read it and this is an overt flirtation | :23:31. | :23:36. | |
with the Liberal Democrats at a time Labour thinks the coalition is | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
in trouble because you are not putting your money where your mouth | :23:40. | :23:47. | |
is? We have put our money where our mouth is saying we want a bank | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
bonus levy. We think it is wrong to have changed the 50 pence, if the | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
Government ministers want to propose tax changes, put the things | :23:54. | :24:03. | |
on the table. It is an odd way to make tax changes. Has Vince Cable | :24:03. | :24:07. | |
had talks with Ed Balls? The phone is there. We are waiting to see | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
what he has to say. So you have asked the department | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
department to have the meeting with Vince Cable? I haven't, but the | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
invitation is a very public one. There was good news for the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
coalition Government, the World Economic Forum World Economic Forum | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
survey said the UK has risen from tenth to eighth in the terms of | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
global competitiveness. It is an indication that the supply reforms | :24:33. | :24:38. | |
are working? The evidence is scant. We saw the OECD change their | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
prediction today about what the growth is going to be in the UK. | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
They thought it was going to be plus... On a competitive... They | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
are saying the economy is going to shrink by 0.7%. This is the biggest | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
fall that they are predicting of any developing country. | :24:58. | :25:01. | |
It would be dangerous when the figures come out? The Government | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
will try their best to find evidence to the contrary. The facts | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
are that the economy is in recession and that we really need | :25:08. | :25:11. | |
action now. They are blaming the planning planning system. They are | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
blaming other changes, but the stimulus that we need now to the | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
economy that's missing. It is interesting to to hear Chris | :25:21. | :25:27. | |
Leslie saying that the tax system is not right way of redistributing | :25:27. | :25:32. | |
wealth. That they are looking at the idea of a wealth tax? | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
Government is correct, they are all over the shop and there is | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
incoherence. But I am confused about where Labour is at the moment | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
because they seem to be trying to argue different things at the same | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
time, but the thing that leaps out, whether it is redistribution or | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
predistribution or tax credits or a wealth tax, Labour is still hung up | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
on this business of fairness, equalling taking money away from | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
people who are wealthy, or wealthy to people and giving it to people | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
who are poorer. I am in favour of a fair society, but for a fair | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
society, everyone starts at the same level. The problem is they | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
don't all start at the same level and we don't have a fair society. | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
The problem our country faces is we need wealth to be created and I | :26:22. | :26:25. | |
can't hear from the Labour Party at the moment how they're going to | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
help create that wealth. I can't hear it from the Government either | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
actually, but I want to hear it from the Labour Party. | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
When Vince Cable returns the call do let us know. | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
After a summer of Olympic glory, we're revelling in the success of | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
our Paralympic champions who've been raking in the gold medals and | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
changing the way we view disability - well that's the hope. But should | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
the achievements of Paralympic athletes change the way we approach | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
the cuts to disability benefits? Susana Mendonsa has been finding | :26:53. | :27:01. | |
out. They are impressive achievements that have been | :27:01. | :27:10. | |
transforming perceptions. Britain's gold rush brought questions about | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
cuts to benefits. They have been able to fulfil their | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
aspirations. Without these, who knows what could have happened. | :27:17. | :27:22. | |
People need to understand that the people they are seeing on the front | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
of papers or on the TV screens are just one group of disabled people. | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
People would just think anyone can be the next whoever wins the | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
athletics. Around this table in a South London | :27:36. | :27:39. | |
cafe, a group of people with muscular dystrophy are here to | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
debate the changes. First up, Incapacity Benefit. Over two | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
million people who used to claim that have been getting reassessed | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
for the employment and support allowance which you only receive in | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
full if you are deemed unfit for work. The estimated saving �2 | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
billion a year. Those assessments led to protests like this one | :27:59. | :28:07. | |
outside the IT firm, ATOS, 38% of people who appealed had their fit | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
for work assessments overturn. There are concerns about who is | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
conducting the assessments. Isn't it right that people who can | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
do some work should be encouraged into work which is what the | :28:19. | :28:24. | |
Government wants to see? Yes. If disabled people can work, they | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
should work and that should be something that's encouraged, but it | :28:27. | :28:34. | |
is making sure that the transition procedure is right. | :28:34. | :28:39. | |
It has got to get a good approach to get people to work if they can | :28:39. | :28:46. | |
and that's the crucial word, "If they can." Because many disabled | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
people need assistance. The other change will be to the | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
Disability Living Allowance which will be replaced by the Personal | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
Independence Payment at an estimated saving to the Treasury of | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
�2 billion. An issue the Prime Minister was questioned about at | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
PMQs this week. His decision to cut Disability | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
Living Allowance will prevent disabled people participating in | :29:09. | :29:12. | |
sport and threaten the legacy of the London Games. | :29:12. | :29:16. | |
We are not cutting the money that's going into supporting disability. | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
We are reforming the system and replacing Disability Living | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
Allowance with a Personal Independence Payment and it is | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
about recognising people's needs. We know it will be more means- | :29:27. | :29:32. | |
tested. The burden of disability shouldn't be on everyone around | :29:32. | :29:36. | |
them. It almost stops people from wanting to be successful. | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
Now the Disability Living Allowance has been around for 20 years, | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
unchanged. The cost has trebled during that period. Isn't it right | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
that the Government should replace it with something more affordable? | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
Cost is going to increase and due to the natural increase in | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
population and numbers of disabled people. So it is not - that's not | :29:57. | :30:00. | |
the right argument to bring down the cost. | :30:00. | :30:04. | |
The Paralympics reignited the debate, but what will the legacy | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
We're joined now by the Labour MP, Dame Anne Begg. Welcome to the | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
programme. Do you think first of all, watching the achievements of | :30:14. | :30:24. | |
Paralympians has changed people's I hope so. I hope it will be long- | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
lasting. We've all been amazed at the abilities they have shown. I | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
think, because there has been an increase in disability hate crime | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
over recent years, that those sort of things, the assumptions made | :30:37. | :30:44. | |
about disabled people, they must be scroungers and must not be trying | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
are dissipated. I hope they see the person beyond the disability. | :30:49. | :30:55. | |
a taboo subject - disability and benefits? I think it has given the | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
people a vow cab bri to use. One problem was people were making sure | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
they would not offend anybody and were rendered inarticulate. The | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
Channel 4 coverage has busted a lot of those kind of myths. It has | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
allowed people just to talk to people with disabilities and say | :31:17. | :31:24. | |
the sort of things, they could say to a blind person, gosh, you should | :31:24. | :31:34. | |
:31:34. | :31:35. | ||
have seen that, or stay to someone who cannot walk, "Step over here." | :31:35. | :31:41. | |
Do you think that? I hope so. I think it has changed people east | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
perceptions in a very dramatic way. I think that most people had no | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
idea that very seriously disabled people could be capable of such | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
feats of strength and courage and achievement. And as Anne says, I | :31:58. | :32:04. | |
think it certainly for the period of the Paralympics it has enabled | :32:04. | :32:11. | |
people to talk about disability. Once the Paralympics, whether this | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
mood fades away, we'll have to see. What about it makes people think, | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
well look at these people achieving these amazing things in sport, they | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
don't need that much help? I think that is an absolute danger. On the | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
other hand there is an element of truth in it. It is a danger because | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
many, if not most disabled people could do those things. I could not | :32:37. | :32:42. | |
do those things. The Paralympians themselves, one forgets they live | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
with appalling levels of hardship, frustration and physical infirmty. | :32:47. | :32:54. | |
But on the other hand it does tell us that with the will to overcome | :32:54. | :32:59. | |
the demoralising belief that we are victims of life rather than taking | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
life by the horns and we can make something of it, it does tell us | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
that with the right attitude it is possible in certain circumstances | :33:07. | :33:12. | |
to overcome that. And through that prism the Government may be | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
struggling to sell its message then on disability reforms, but seeing | :33:16. | :33:21. | |
it the way it has just been outlines there, are they as | :33:21. | :33:28. | |
controversial as some people say? It is more than attitudes, it is | :33:28. | :33:35. | |
physical barriers. So David Weir - I don't know if he gets Disability | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
Living Allowance - he is qualified for it. He needs an adapive car. He | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
still cannot get on to most of the London Underground. He has an | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
adapted house. All that costs money. It is not cheap. The fear for most | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
disabled people is the money they get now which allows them to travel | :33:53. | :34:01. | |
to the training grounds, that money will stop. When it stops, their | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
independence stops. It is so emotive... It is all about the | :34:05. | :34:12. | |
assessment, isn't it? That is right. Even Paralympians have needs that | :34:12. | :34:15. | |
cost money. The position the Government come from is they are | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
troubled by people who don't have that degree of need and | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
nonetheless... Are we talking about a lot of people here? Are we | :34:23. | :34:28. | |
talking about that many people? think a lot of that - the fallacy | :34:28. | :34:32. | |
around disabled people, things like Disability Living Allowance is paid | :34:32. | :34:37. | |
to those out of work and some of the confusion comes with the | :34:37. | :34:39. | |
employment support allowance, which is the benefit changing at the | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
moment which has caused a great deal of anger. In that case it is | :34:44. | :34:51. | |
often the assessment. I had a constituent who had motor neurone | :34:51. | :35:00. | |
disease, lost his job and then was assessed as being fit for work. | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
That is why many feel persecuted, they think the system is there to | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
take the money away from them. All the talk about cuts makes them | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
think the Government is coming after the benefit they depend on to | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
lead an independent life. That is the group of people there is focus | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
on in terms of taking away potentially some of their | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
allowances on the basis of an assessment, where there are clearly | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
mistakes being made because of the types of people carrying out the | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
assessments don't have the qualifications. What are you asked | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
to do to find out if you are eligible? The last thing it does is | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
assess your capability for work. That is done by a work provider if | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
you are found you are fit for some work. That is where it gets | :35:49. | :35:56. | |
complicated. You talk about the different groups. But it's - | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
despite changes the Government claim to have put in place, it is | :36:00. | :36:07. | |
still very musm a tick box. It -- much a tick box. It asks if someone | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
can move an empty box across a distance. Therefore in the | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
assumption if you do it once you can work 40 hours a week in a low- | :36:16. | :36:19. | |
paid job. The two don't go together. That is part of the problem. It is | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
not assessing people's ability to get work, hold down a job and be | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
employed. Because employers very often discriminate against people | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
as well. Thank you for joining us. We have now been joined by viewers | :36:33. | :36:40. | |
in Scotland who have been watching First Minister's questions from | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
Holyrood. The Scottish political editor joins us now. It has been | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
reshuffle up in Scotland too, hasn't it? And new bills brought | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
in? The legislative programme announced including a bill for a | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
referendum - the legislation will go ahead. The referendum will be in | :36:57. | :37:04. | |
2014. It is that which has caused controversy. Nicola Sturgeon moved | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
from health to infrastructure, with a remit on the constitution and | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
questions to the First Minister today, it was said to be | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
downgrading the economy. It was an obsession of the SNP. Salmond | :37:19. | :37:24. | |
taking a different tack, saying the economy was the number one priority | :37:24. | :37:27. | |
for every single member of the Government, but at the same time, | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
within that, they believed it was legitimate to argue economic | :37:32. | :37:37. | |
priority is advanced by going down the road to independence. In terms | :37:37. | :37:40. | |
of the economy, George Osborne, the Chancellor, I understand, is | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
speaking to the CBI in Scotland this evening. What sort of | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
reception will he receive? I think good. The CBI are saying in a | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
statement, that they are issuing this afternoon, that they believe | :37:50. | :37:55. | |
that independence will be damaging, that the very fact of a debate | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
taking place they would regard as an aspect which causes worry and | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
concern to business. I am sure George Osborne will emphasise that | :38:04. | :38:08. | |
point as well. He will face some criticism and question marks over | :38:08. | :38:12. | |
his own conduct of the economy - a point that Alex Salmond was keen to | :38:12. | :38:16. | |
draw. He is saying to Labour, who were challenging on the business of | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
independence, saying what is so wonderful about the situation in | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
Scotland? Claiming the Scottish Government had claimed to mitigate, | :38:24. | :38:29. | |
in his view, some of the damaging aspects and arguing they could do | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
more if they had full control of the economy. Alex Salmond, as you | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
say may want to focus on the economy at the moment, but we've | :38:37. | :38:40. | |
had the latest in referendum talks, haven't we? Nicola Sturgeon has | :38:40. | :38:49. | |
just come out of those. Have we any news? Nicola Sturgeon meeting Mr | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
Mundell. A statement says they were construction, there was momentum | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
and further talks next week between the Secretary of State and Nicola | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
Sturgeon. My guess is we are heading towards a deal where there | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
is a single yes or no to independence. I guess that is the | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
situation. My belief is it is only that that the Government will give | :39:12. | :39:19. | |
sanction to. Having another question on the ballot paper. | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
you very much. I believe we can talk now to Nicola Sturgeon, who in | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
the reshuffle, has been given the job of heading up that independence | :39:27. | :39:33. | |
campaign. Can you hear us here? can hear you, yes. You have come | :39:33. | :39:40. | |
out of talks with David Mundell is one question agreed? We have not | :39:40. | :39:43. | |
got to the point of agreeing anything yet. We had good | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
discussions this morning. I will meet next week with the Secretary | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
of State for Scotland. I hope we'll make further progress in those | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
discussions to pave the way for a meeting that we hope will take | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
place between the first minister and the Prime Minister in the next | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
few weeks. I am very confident that we can reach agreement. I think | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
there is a will on both sides to get the process issues out of the | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
way so we can get on with the debate that really matters. That is | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
the debate about why Scotland would be better off as an independent | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
country. Is it right that in that meeting the argument now has been | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
criticised that if you agree to one question on the ballot paper, then | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
you will get that legal basis that you need to hold that referendum | :40:25. | :40:30. | |
and make it binding. That is the argument. If you agree to that it | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
is sorted? With respect. I am not trying to evade your question. I | :40:33. | :40:38. | |
will not go into the detail of the negotiations under way live on | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
television. That would be discourteous and not helpful to the | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
process. Give us a hint of where it is going? We are focusing on issues, | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
for example issues around the timetable that we would require to | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
agree for a section 30 order to go through. Both Parliaments, there | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
are issues around the franchise. There are issues around the timing | :40:57. | :41:04. | |
of the referendum. So we are discussing all these issues, | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
including issues around the question or questions. So, all | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
these things are being discussed. We have always been very clear that | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
a fundamental principal is that there should be no strings attached | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
by Westminster. Referendum should be made and built in Scotland. But | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
I was pleased with the nature and the tone of the discussions this | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
morning. I look forward to continuing to pick up the pace of | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
these discussions, make further progress and pave the way for the | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
meeting between Alex Salmond and David Cameron. It sound from your | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
tone at least, even if you cannot tell us about the negotiations, | :41:37. | :41:41. | |
that some progress is being made. One of the other issues is giving | :41:42. | :41:46. | |
the vote to 16 and 17 year olds in Scotland. Now, the signals over the | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
summer in the papers that Westminster were alive to that - is | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
that true? Well, again I was very pleased with the nature of the | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
discussion. So it is a yes? It is one of the issues we are making | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
progress on. I have to be clear that nothing, as yet, is agreed. It | :42:04. | :42:08. | |
would be wrong for me to go into the detail yes, that is one of the | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
issues where I think we are making progress. We have always argued | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
that 16 and 17 year olds should be able to vote, not just in this | :42:16. | :42:20. | |
referendum, but all elections. you have any doubt about taking | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
this job. If you lose the referendum, you'll have to quit? | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
believe for my entire adult life that Scotland should be an | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
independent country. If we are to have a strong economy we need | :42:31. | :42:36. | |
access to resources F we are to make people more prosperous, we | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
need to have control over the levers that determine that. To | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
tackle poverty we need tax and benefits. I am thoroughly looking | :42:43. | :42:47. | |
forward to this. The key part of my responsibilities is economic | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
recovery. There is a big link between getting our economy growing | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
and the powers we have as a Parliament. We are talking about | :42:55. | :43:01. | |
the Paralympics. Did you feel proud to be part of Team GB? I thoroughly | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
enjoyed watching and cheering on team bb. The debate about | :43:06. | :43:13. | |
independence -- Team GB. The debate about independence is not just | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
about identity. I thought it was all about identity. The social | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
union between Scotland and England is beyond any doubt. This is a | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
debate about the economic and political powers that we need in | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
Scotland to have a stronger economy, to be more prosperous and to be a | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
fairer society. That is what the debate is about. The SNP and Alex | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
Salmond and you have always framed your arguments in this idea of | :43:40. | :43:47. | |
identity. This idea - wasn't that dented by the idea that Sir Hoy and | :43:47. | :43:56. | |
Andy Murray draped in the Union Jack,? I don't think they... I am a | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
proud and patriotic Scot. I believe two things - I believe you can be a | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
proud Scot and not support independence. I believe you can | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
feel British and support independence because independence | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
is about political and economic powers. It is about forging a | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
relationship of equals between Scotland and the rest of the UK. | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
That is the debate we'll have in the next couple of years. I am | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
determined it will be an honest and positive debate, an upbeat debate. | :44:24. | :44:30. | |
I am thoroughly looking forward to it. Which can tell. Enjoy your new | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
job. In terms of what the Government wants to do, in terms of | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
defending the union, do you think they have a difficult job? They may | :44:37. | :44:43. | |
be making it easier if the SNP is going to put its money where its | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
mouth is and have a question on the ballot paper. Something they have | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
tried to avoid. They feel given the choice independence or no, the | :44:51. | :44:57. | |
Scots will say "No." What a lot of inco-her rant rubbish from Nicola | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
Sturgeon. She is proud to be Scottish and British. The whole | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
point about the SNP is they wish to divide Scotland from England. They | :45:04. | :45:09. | |
wish to dissolve the union of Scotland and England. That is what | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
Britain is. So they want it both ways. They cannot potszable in | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
today's climate bring -- possibly in today's climate bring themselves | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
there - it is rubbish. It is complete nonsense. My overall point | :45:24. | :45:28. | |
is, the underlining point was not brought up, obviously by Nicola | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
Sturgeon, is it's not simply for the Scots, the right of the Scots | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
to vote on independence - English voters should. What they will vote | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
on is not independence for Scotland, it is the break-up of the United | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
Kingdom. Well, we have a another couple of years to talk about this. | :45:46. | :45:50. | |
The Government wants to build its way out of recession. Labour thinks | :45:50. | :45:54. | |
a wealth tax might do the trick. Some businesses are doing very well | :45:54. | :46:04. | |
:46:04. | :46:11. | ||
We spent so much of our time trying to get time trying to get out of | :46:11. | :46:18. | |
politicians how to stimulus growth. Your company makes phone apps and | :46:18. | :46:22. | |
has a fantastic bakery and you restore floors. You started your | :46:22. | :46:32. | |
:46:32. | :46:32. | ||
place, what is it sex million downloads a -- -- six million | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
downloads. We felt the the smartphone market | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
was booming, even though the economy was in downturn, the phone | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
market was in upturn. It has been a great experience. | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
What's the secret to setting something like that up? Was it the | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
fact that you had experience of industry, but you hadn't done it | :46:53. | :47:00. | |
yourself or was it this is a country where entrepreneurism is | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
fostered? Every experience is a good experience. You just need to | :47:03. | :47:09. | |
have the bravery and the courage to take your ideas and believe in your | :47:09. | :47:14. | |
concepts and push it through. It is to have the courage to set-up | :47:14. | :47:19. | |
on your own. You are so busy baking cup karks, | :47:20. | :47:25. | |
it is -- cakes, it is almost, "Recession, what recession?". | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
were always busy from almost day one and we didn't realise there was | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
a recession. It sounds silly. We were always busy. | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
With a �5 million turnover, that's successful stuff. Of the other two, | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
you are employing a huge number of people, that's 120 people. Every | :47:43. | :47:50. | |
time you put on a new shop, you can say, "I'm generating employment. ". | :47:50. | :48:00. | |
Each new shop will have 0 to 5 new -- 20 to 25 new hires. | :48:00. | :48:04. | |
There is nothing like the employment on that scale? No, we | :48:04. | :48:09. | |
have five people that we employ, but we've reached our capacity. We | :48:09. | :48:13. | |
have grown over the last couple of years. We are at that stage now | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
where we need to make the next step up. Is that where your business is | :48:19. | :48:23. | |
or is the climate as such that means you couldn't employ more? | :48:23. | :48:27. | |
it is a bit of both. We are taking on as much work as we can do. It is | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
not because there is not work out there. It is because we have | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
reached our capacity. We are at that stage where we need to look at | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
employing more people. You played a lot of football and | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
then you went to university and you set-up a flooring company. As you | :48:42. | :48:52. | |
:48:52. | :48:54. | ||
Yes. Do you think this country is somewhere that fosters entra | :48:54. | :49:03. | |
present entrepreneurism? I think so. Where are this? It is looking at | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
the risk and getting help with the finance. | :49:06. | :49:12. | |
Is that because we have created a climate where the risk is dangerous | :49:12. | :49:16. | |
and real or we are fairly cautious? There is a little bit of concern | :49:16. | :49:23. | |
and it is funding. It takes a a lot of money to start a business, but | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
the more the Government can help will be beneficial. | :49:27. | :49:34. | |
One thing the Government can do for someone like you that would make | :49:34. | :49:37. | |
life easier? Business rates are really, really high if you have | :49:37. | :49:41. | |
shops. What about you two, National | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
Insurance Contributions? We employ a small number of people. There is | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
employers National Insurance Contributions we have to pay every | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
time we take on a new member of staff. We have to factor that into | :49:55. | :50:00. | |
our budget. Because we deal a lot with the consumer, is the level of | :50:00. | :50:07. | |
VAT at moment. Would you agree VAT is a problem? It is. NI is | :50:07. | :50:13. | |
important. I think small companies should have no NI for companies | :50:13. | :50:19. | |
with less than ten people. Good growth stories. Good messages | :50:19. | :50:23. | |
to politicians about what they can. We are not awash with cup cakes and | :50:23. | :50:29. | |
that's because somebody forgot! Never mind, Jo. | :50:29. | :50:32. | |
After the excitement of the reshuffle died down, in the House | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
of Commons ministers started getting their feet under the table | :50:36. | :50:40. | |
and got down to business in their new departments. Patrick McLoughlin | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
the new Transport Minister was in position yesterday for a Labour-led | :50:43. | :50:46. | |
debate on rail fares. For nearly 20 years he has been a whip and by | :50:47. | :50:49. | |
convention, whips don't speak in debates so he finally got to break | :50:50. | :50:59. | |
his silence. The rising cost of rail travel is now adding to the | :50:59. | :51:03. | |
financial pressures facing many households, that's a fact. I would | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
hope there can be agreement on that. It is something we are all hearing | :51:06. | :51:14. | |
from our constituents. I also hope that we can agree on a second basic | :51:14. | :51:18. | |
proposition the level by which rail fares increase should not be left | :51:18. | :51:24. | |
to the private train companies to determine. It is why we have | :51:24. | :51:30. | |
regulated and unregulated fares o those tickets which most people | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
rely having their annual increase capped, but the reality is the so- | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
called cap on annual fare rise isn't a cap at all. When the | :51:40. | :51:44. | |
Chancellor stands up as he does and says that fares won't rise by more | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
than 1% above inflation or whatever percentage it might be, he can't | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
deliver that chitment in ticket -- commitment in ticket offices | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
because the cap is an average and train companies have the | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
flexibility as they like to call it to increase fares by up to 5% above | :52:02. | :52:05. | |
the called cap. I would like to tell the House what | :52:05. | :52:10. | |
a great honour and privilege it is to return to the dispatch box in a | :52:10. | :52:13. | |
proper speaking role after some 18 years. | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
Although I have to say to the honourable lady, I haven't expected | :52:17. | :52:23. | |
to make my first transport speech quite so quickly. Can I add one | :52:23. | :52:25. | |
thing to the list of things he should worry about and think about | :52:25. | :52:30. | |
which is the fact that often we think of commuters as being wealthy | :52:30. | :52:33. | |
people going in and out of the commuter districts outside London | :52:33. | :52:38. | |
to jobs in banks. Many in my constituency are actually people on | :52:38. | :52:46. | |
the minimum wage and for them, the �5.10 or �5.20 maybe prohibitive | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
for them going to work. Can you work with the Department of Work | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
and Pensions to make sure those people have a real opportunity to | :52:53. | :52:58. | |
work? I will accept that there is a lot of people who commute in are on | :52:58. | :53:02. | |
small wages and the transport part of the cost of transport is a very | :53:02. | :53:08. | |
large part of their income. And we do have to bear that in mind. The | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
honourable member is, of course, supporting a motion today which | :53:12. | :53:19. | |
would remove the flexibility of rail prices for the rail companies. | :53:19. | :53:24. | |
How confident is he that the Government will be able to electify | :53:24. | :53:28. | |
more of the railways than the nine nine miles managed in three | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
parliaments previously? honourable gentleman must not under | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
estimate the achievements of the last Government. He said they | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
electified nine miles. He is wrong. They electified 13 and I am coming | :53:38. | :53:44. | |
on to that a little later on in my speech. I wonder what he would say | :53:44. | :53:50. | |
to one of my constituents who told he had to give up his job in London | :53:50. | :54:00. | |
:54:00. | :54:00. | ||
because he could no longer afford the rail fare to get there. More | :54:00. | :54:06. | |
people are using the railways than at any time since 1929 as I said on | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
a lesser network. But the honourable lady is right to express | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
those concerns and I am concerned about people who are having to | :54:13. | :54:16. | |
spend so much of their income on their transport costs and it is | :54:16. | :54:24. | |
something which I hope we can look at and hopefully in some areas see | :54:24. | :54:33. | |
some improvements in due course. Yes, I wonder how Patrick | :54:33. | :54:43. | |
:54:43. | :54:47. | ||
McLoughlin will enjoy his new job. We're joined now by the Green MP, | :54:47. | :54:49. | |
Caroline Lucas and by the Conservative MP, who also spoke in | :54:49. | :54:51. | |
the debate, Brian Binley. Your constituency is Northampton South. | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
What's the annual cost for somebody coming into London? It is just | :54:54. | :54:58. | |
under �6,000 if you take in the annual rail fare, the Underground | :54:58. | :55:03. | |
addition and the parking fee. Of course, many people will have to | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
park at the railway station before they get on to a train. The train | :55:07. | :55:13. | |
will go to the villages. That's in many cases over 25% of their | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
disposable income. It is high. If the fares go up | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
another 11%, what effect will have that? It will have a massive effect. | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
The Government want us to build more houses to cater for those | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
people who can't afford houses in London and the South East. That | :55:29. | :55:32. | |
means people who haven't got a great deal of money. | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
So should they cap the fares? drive out inefficiency in the rail | :55:37. | :55:44. | |
services. It is not only a case of consumer or taxpayer, McNulty made | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
it clear there was a lot of inefficiency that we haven't driven | :55:48. | :55:52. | |
out and the franchising process has helped them increase fares rather | :55:52. | :55:55. | |
than drive them down. The idea is to increase fares to | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
pay for improved services. Is that happening? I don't think it is | :55:59. | :56:02. | |
happening and it is interesting to listen to Brian because we agree | :56:02. | :56:05. | |
about the problem, the high fares that are pricing people off the | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
railways and making it difficult for people to find jobs, but when | :56:09. | :56:12. | |
Brian says the solution is to make private companies more efficient, | :56:12. | :56:17. | |
it is the privatisation process which has become inefficient. Lots | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
of money has been drained out of the system in profits and in | :56:20. | :56:26. | |
dividends and come complexity. Are there certain operators that | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
are worse than others? It is across-the-board because of the | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
nature of the privatised system that you have to have so much back | :56:33. | :56:43. | |
:56:43. | :56:47. | ||
room process. The back room costs have gone up 56%. If you look at | :56:47. | :56:51. | |
train companies they are putting the profit into the business. | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
Why are there foreign State owned railways being able to take profits | :56:55. | :57:01. | |
out of our system and plough them into our own? I thought your | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
comments were eloquent yesterday, but you have got a problem because | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
that's part of the problem of the European Union and the very open | :57:07. | :57:15. | |
market. May I say something? It is raised | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
that the EU wouldn't let us do it. As long as you allow other train | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
companies use the tracks, you certainly can have your railways in | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
100% public ownership. The Dutch are doing it. The irony is on this | :57:32. | :57:35. | |
issue we are, you know, stopping ourselves from having a really good | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
rail system. We are allowing other companies from other countries to | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
get the the profits out of our system. | :57:44. | :57:50. | |
Do you think we should put it back in public ownership? Of course not. | :57:50. | :57:57. | |
The EU liberalisation programme introduced in 2010 was based very | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
much on the British privatisation programme and that's where | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
Caroline's problem lies. I go with McNulty. We have allowed through | :58:07. | :58:15. | |
the franchising process to allow franchiseees to increase prices | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
higher than they should have been increased and I want to see the | :58:19. | :58:22. | |
Government drive inefficiency out and have the prices lower. | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
I'm going to have to stop you there because we have run out of time. We | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
didn't have time to give you the answer to Guess The Year yesterday. | :58:30. | :58:40. | |
The year was 1971 and the winner chosen at random is Andrew Ellmore. | :58:40. | :58:47. | |
Congratulations, Andrew. Thanks to all our guests. | :58:47. | :58:50. |