27/09/2012 Daily Politics


27/09/2012

Jo Coburn with the latest political news, interviews and debate including Sutton Trust chairman Sir Peter Lampl and David Cameron's appearance on the David Letterman Show.


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Transcript


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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. The worst floods in

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30 years in some parts in country end a very soggy summer and leave

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an insurance headache for homeowners and businesses. The

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Prime Minister lands in Rio to sell the UK's wares. Could exporting to

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these fast growing economies get us out of recession? They get the best

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A-levels, GCSEs and their pupils dominate the top jobs. But what's

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to be done about the great education divide between private

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and state schools? The Prime Minister's been taking a Latin test

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live on TV in New York. So, how did he do? And the literal translation

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was...? Again you are testing. would be good if you knew this.

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would be. Glad it was not me. All that in the next hour. And, with me

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for the whole programme today, is the philanthropist and

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educationalist, chairman of the Sutton Trust, Sir Peter Lampl.

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Let's start with a terrible flooding that has hit so many parts

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of the country. One of the worst affected areas is Yorkshire and in

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York itself where river levels peaked. Our Correspondent is there.

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Yes, it looks pretty terrible behind you. It is not raining. Has

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it been saved by the fact the weather has changed for the better?

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Lovely blue skies here. What we have is fire and rescue officers

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who have been ferrying people, medical personnel in particular, to

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and from one of the buildings behind me - a residential care home

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- to check that people all the -- have all the medicine they need. It

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is a busy lunchtime in York. Behind the noise of the traffic, you can

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hear the faintly audible sigh of relief. The feeling is that your

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has escaped the worst of it. The flood defences can take 5.5 metres

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above the normal river level. Repeat this morning at around 8

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o'clock. On the other side of that building, the river used winds its

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way through the city with such a mess. The defences have managed to

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keep most riverside properties clear of water. There is still

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quite a bit of flooding here. People are having to be rescued by

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the fire service. People are breathing a sigh of relief. That is

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not much comfort for those who did in this area thinking, if more rain

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comes, we will be hit. I think, had there been a couple of hours of

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heavy rain yesterday, we could have been looking at an entirely

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different story. Either speaking to the Environment Agency and they

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were saying that there is no rain forecast for today. -- I was

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speaking. The picture will remain rosy. These will to should

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gradually recede. It is clear that hundreds of homes across the

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country, and especially in the north, have been affected. In the

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next year or so, the arrangement that has been put in place to

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ensure that people who are in blood affected areas - blood prone areas

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- can still get insurance. That is due to come to an end before next

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June. There are still questions and matters of policy that need

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hammering out. The feeling is it will not just happen this year, we

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will see it again and again. we're joined now by Nick Starling

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from the Association of British Insurers. What is the agreement?

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is called the statement of principles. He was put into place

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as a temporary measure. It means that our members keep people

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covered in high-risk areas. That is in return to the Government

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investing in flood defences, sorting out planning, so we no

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longer have unwise development in higher risk areas and greatly

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improving the flow of information to people. Why is it temporary?

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Wires are not permanent? Those people will worry about what will

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happen to those premiums. -- why is it not permanent? We said it was

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unsustainable. That is partly because it distorts the market. New

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entrants can cover people in lower areas for lower prices. It does not

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guarantee price. Some people in high risk areas are paying higher

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premiums. You say you will not insure homes in high-risk areas

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without a premium being paid over and above what is being paid at the

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moment. They are saying for about 200,000 households in the country,

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insurance will become unaffordable or unavailable. No other country in

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the world has property wrapped up in flood insurance. We need to

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share the risk between policyholders and governments so

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people can be assured of getting colour. What do you mean, share the

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risk? -- getting cover. Does that mean I have to pay a high premium?

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What we are discussing with government is a range of issues

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around this. The Government itself has talked about a very small levy

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across the industry as being part of this. Also, looking at what the

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right premium is for someone living in a high risk area. The risk is

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increasing all the time. People here in an area which was not high

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risk are now at a high risk of flooding. All of us are. I am as

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well, probably. The situation is there is enough money in the

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industry to offer money to people in high-risk homes. They think

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you're trying to squeeze more money out of the Government cut the state,

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or other policyholders. I do not recognise that. If you have a

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very... Let's say there is a very major flood event - an East Coast

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flood event. There will be a huge hit on government spending if that

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happens. There would not be enough money in the system and we would

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need shared liability. Do you think we are looking at the levy being

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imposed right across the country, in order to help to pay for these

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areas? I want to say that I really feel for all these people. It is

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absolutely dreadful. I have a home in Florida and, regularly, we get

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tropical storms and hurricanes coming through. I know what it is

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like to be flooded - not completely flooded. With insurance, in the

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United States, we have separate flood insurance - federal flood

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insurance. That is separate from a household insurance. Nevertheless,

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it is a traumatic experience, when your home gets flooded. I have

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never been flooded. This is water coming through windows and... The

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other thing I want to say is, of them are so much government can do

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to help people. Do you think they are not doing that? They are.

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Nature takes its own course. We will see increasing amounts of this

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happening. The whole insurance... My insurance in Florida goes up.

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The cost of insurance is getting out of hand. It must be affordable.

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What is dramatic is people warring they were not be covered in future

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years. Would you put a cap on the premiums that people pay? Where

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would you put that cap? That is something we are discussing with

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the Government. Affordability is the key issue. It will depend on

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your own circumstances. Some properties are virtually

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uninsurable. If you are flooded every two or three years, that is

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not insurable. What will happen to them? We need to talk about theirs.

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I think there is a real point here. There is an issue about whether

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people should be building houses in those places. The number of places

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that are becoming increasingly difficult to prevent flooding is

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becoming bigger all the time. You say 200,000 and that is a huge

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number. You are right on that. The flood risk is increasing. The

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Environment Agency says if we spend �1 billion a year on flood defences,

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which we welcome, that is only enough to keep pace with existing

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risk and not reduce it. Thank you very much. Now, fasten your

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seatbelts for the latest instalment of our jet setting Prime Minister's

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travels. Yesterday, it was New York and today it is Brazil - home of

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carnival, the 2016 Olympics but also one of the world's fastest-

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growing economies. And so, our Dave has just arrived in Sao Paulo, not

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just to do the samba but also to try and boost trade. He's

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accompanied by a 40-strong business delegation. And, it is no wonder

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that the Prime Minister wants to dance close - so close to the

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Brazilians. Last year, Brazil overtook the UK to become the

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world's sixth largest economy. As we crept out of an economic

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hangover in 2010, Brazil celebrated growth of 7.5%. Even last year, the

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country had 2.7% growth compared to the UK's 0.8%. Brazil is one of the

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four so called BRIC countries, thought to be at similar stage of

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newly advanced development. The others being Russia, India and

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China. We saw a similar push from the UK, with India, at the

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beginning of David Cameron's premiership. The Prime Minister is

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keen for the UK to set out its stall because, according to the

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Department for Business, Brazil is yet to become one of the UK's top

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trade partners. It is the 27th largest destination for UK goods

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exports and the 41st market for UK services exports. Our entry onto

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the Brazilian scene has been slow compared to our neighbours.

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According to the Department for Business, the UK accounted for 1.8%

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of Brazil's goods imports in 2010, compared to 6.5% from Germany and

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2.6% from France. The question for Dave now is whether the UK can

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dance to the right beat when we have been so far behind. With us

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now is the Business Minister, Matthew Hancock, and with his

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folding bike is Emerson Roberts of Brompton Bicycle, who visited

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Brazil himself on a trade delegation in 2010. You did not

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cycle there, I presume. More exports to those countries. That

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has been the emphasis and focus in the last few years. With this visit,

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who is David Cameron trying to attract to buy our stuff? It is the

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largest prime ministerial delegation in history, we

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understand. Does that make a difference? Yes. You take lots of

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businessmen with you. Several ministers are going in order to try

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to reach as many parts of the Brazilian economy that we can.

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There is a special focus on sports infrastructure. They have the World

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Cup in 2014 and then the Olympics in 2016. There are British

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companies like a con, who designed the master plan for the London Park,

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who have similar contracts in Rio. There is that to capitalise on.

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Also the energy sector. There is offshore oil and gas off the shore

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of Brazil. We are the world experts in offshore. Do these charm

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offensives work? Yes. Everything helps. Your opening bit, showing

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where we are in relation to Germany and France... We are quite a long

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way behind. Absolutely! We are playing catch-up. Anything the

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Prime Minister can do to raise the profile of British businesses, all

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to be good. Catch up here because the focus was too much on

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financial-services, is that right? We did not do enough in those years

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looking outside the EU and now we are suffering. I think that is a

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fair criticism. The first foreign visit by the Prime Minister when he

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came into office was India. That was in recognition of the fact the

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fastest growing markets are outside of the EU. There are outside of

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North America as well. Over the last 12 months, and exports to

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Brazil have gone up by 24% - by a quarter. This is good news but it

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is from a low base and we need to do much more. The trade deficit has

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been reduced from July. It could say it is a spike rather than

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anything sustainable. We have not moved into surplus, why not? Coming

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back to Brazil, Germany are way ahead of us. They used -- I used to

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work in Germany and own businesses there. They have a lot more to

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offer Brazil then we do, in terms of engineering and manufacturing.

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It will be very difficult for us to play catch-up. Yours is a wonderful

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company but there are hundreds of companies like cures. Privately

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owned German companies. -- like yours. That is why they're so far

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ahead of us and it will be tough for us to catch up. I agree with

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that to an extent. The onus should be much more on companies than

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expecting the Government to come in and sort it all out. I think what

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the German companies, with government support, they were

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already looking ahead. Where were the next big markets? They did not

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just rely on the EU. Why has Britain failed so much? They are

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talking about looking out sides of the EU but Germany and France are

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doing much better than ourselves. Historically they have focused much

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more on the rest of the world. is said we do not have the export

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here to do that. If we do not have the goods to offer, what is the

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point? I wish the size of our manufacturing sector had not halved

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under the Labour years. It also was by the Conservative government was

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we are trying to turn that around. The point is, do you focus on

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trying to get the best links we can with the rest of the world? No one

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disputes that. Even if we do, are we ever going to really be able to

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have an export-led recovery in the way we have been talking about?

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Should we be looking still at our financial services industry? We do

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not want to have a balanced economy. What you're saying will not change

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the terms of trade. Of if you argue that because we cannot do

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everything we should do nothing at all, I do not think people would

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agree with that. There was too much of a focus on financial services.

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They remain something Britain is good at. We should continue to push

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them. We must have a more balanced approach. Not only balanced in

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terms of the sectors but also in terms of... It comes back to my

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main thing - education. We do not have enough kids doing what they

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call stem subjects - science, technology, engineering and mask.

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We do not have enough capability in that area compared with Germany and

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France. It is a long-term thing to try to build up our capability in

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science, engineering. The Government has a big push on that

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which we are supporting. It is not something that will happen

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What can government do to help companies like yours? There is a

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particularly good use of funds, but I would put the onus more on

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companies to make use of what is already available. The cornerstone

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of any export strategy should be getting legal advice, advice on

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logistics. I also think we shouldn't do it ourselves down, we

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are still a married -- major manufacturing economy. There are

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many products are which would be very welcome in the high streets of

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Rio, across the countries. consumer demand is still so

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dampened, we are struggling to make it up in terms of export. It is

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vital we do what we can for exports. For businesses that are watching,

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the trade promotion body has been turned around and really advanced.

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They are there to help businesses to export. They will have local

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knowledge of all markets. In your position in the business department,

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if the trade picture is getting better, can we expect growth in the

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third quarter? I am not a forecaster, bid is difficult to

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make predictions. But you optimistic? There are more positive

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signs than there have been. I would rather be cautious. Our job is to

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do as much as we can to support British businesses both here and

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overseas. In terms of help, his business being hampered by the lack

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of connectivity between our airports in London and second

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cities in places like Brazil and China. If you look at the

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statistics, the number of flights to Shanghai, to Sao Paulo, we are

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way behind Frankfurt and Charles de Gaulle. Two weeks ago, I was in

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Shanghai, no difficulties getting between London and there. This is

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not something I want to give an answer to. What do you think?

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Business save time and again we are hampered. That may be an issue. I

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want to come back to Brazil. I was a consultant in Sao Paulo. I am now

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invested in agricultural land in Brazil. It is a fantastic country.

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Huge, growing. Safe? No. I can to walk outside the hotel. The family

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I was working for, a wealthy Sao Paulo family, they couldn't go

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anywhere without a machine guns in their car. Security is a major

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issue in Brazil. You are nodding your head? It has got better. I was

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there a couple of years ago. I walked around quite happily in the

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evenings without feeling in any danger. Did you cycle around?

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course. Isn't connectivity an issue raised by business groups, the lack

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of Heathrow being a centre of transport links to those countries?

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It has been a debate. A review will look into airport capacity in the

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south east. One reason why business has been pushing hard on this is

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partly because all the other things, this government is doing, to make

:21:37.:21:42.

it easier to grow a business and create jobs, and export. We are

:21:42.:21:47.

extremely receptive to ideas from any quarter of what needs to happen

:21:47.:21:53.

to create jobs and improve the environment for enterprise. There

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is one successful export, Margaret Thatcher, to China. She is being

:21:58.:22:04.

used as part of the Shanghai chain Executive Leadership Academy, her

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philosophy, in crisis management. How does David Cameron match that?

:22:11.:22:18.

She is a great lady. Britain has a two-nation education

:22:18.:22:21.

system, according to the Sutton Trust, the educational charity run

:22:21.:22:25.

by our guest Sir Peter Lampl. The performance of private schools far

:22:25.:22:27.

outstrips outcomes for pupils in state schools. The current

:22:27.:22:31.

government believes free schools might be one of the answers. They

:22:31.:22:34.

are state-funded independent schools, free of local authority

:22:34.:22:39.

control. The idea, borrowed from Sweden, is to make it easier for

:22:39.:22:42.

parents, teachers, charities and businesses to set up their own

:22:42.:22:45.

schools. This September, 55 new free schools opened. A further 114

:22:45.:22:55.
:22:55.:23:02.

have been approved to open in 2013 and beyond.

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Only 7% of young people in the UK attend fee-paying schools. Yet 40%

:23:05.:23:10.

of students at Oxford and Cambridge went to private school. And

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independent schools dominate the professions too. 35% of MPs are

:23:13.:23:18.

educated privately, with 13 private schools providing 10% of all MPs.

:23:18.:23:28.
:23:28.:23:32.

And 54% of the country's top journalists were privately educated.

:23:32.:23:37.

Let us start with the inequality and poor performance, seen as

:23:37.:23:41.

hallmarks of England's school system. Why do think it is there is

:23:41.:23:48.

this big divide? Between private and state? It boils down to

:23:48.:23:53.

teaching. Private schools have better-qualified teachers. They go

:23:53.:24:00.

about hiring those. They pay more? That is part of it. You are

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:24:10.:24:11.

teaching smaller classes, teaching your subject. If you have children,

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they get free or subsidised places were two schools. If you are a

:24:15.:24:20.

teacher. If you look at the ratio, there are far less pupils to

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teacher in private schools. It is a resource issue, there is much more

:24:24.:24:31.

money spent in private schools. you agree? They have all money but

:24:31.:24:37.

there is plenty of evidence to show when you strip out the class

:24:37.:24:41.

background, state school teachers actually do a better job. I am sure

:24:41.:24:46.

they do have good teachers, they have fantastic resources, selective

:24:46.:24:53.

intake. You are starting with a different group of what children

:24:53.:25:03.
:25:03.:25:06.

clutching macro group of children. -- CORRECTION. We conducted

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research on children who all qualified for assisted places. That

:25:10.:25:15.

was got rid of by Labour. Half took the assisted places, half went to

:25:16.:25:22.

comprehensives. We have looked at outcomes, how well did they do in

:25:22.:25:29.

their exams. What are they doing now? The kids who went to

:25:29.:25:36.

independent schools have done far better. Wouldn't the answer be

:25:36.:25:39.

raising the Standard and putting that money into the state

:25:39.:25:43.

comprehensive system, rather than try to take a certain number of

:25:43.:25:47.

pupils and putting them into the independent system? I think you

:25:47.:25:55.

have to do both, raise standards in the state system. That boils down

:25:55.:26:00.

to improving teaching. It is not free schools or academies. That is

:26:00.:26:04.

structural change. We have to focus on what goes on in the class room

:26:04.:26:11.

and teaching. What would raise standards in state comprehensive

:26:11.:26:17.

schools? Some do extremely well. If you want to use the benchmark of

:26:17.:26:22.

Oxford and Cambridge, some local schools are getting higher numbers

:26:22.:26:27.

of children into those universities. What makes the difference? Pupils

:26:27.:26:31.

from middle-class families need to stay in the state school system?

:26:31.:26:36.

Why is it down to the background of children? Schools that have a

:26:36.:26:41.

balanced intake tend to do better. What worries me about open access

:26:42.:26:47.

schemes, you would take out what able children from the state sector.

:26:47.:26:54.

I agree with everything almost that Peter says, the key is quality of

:26:54.:27:00.

teaching and school leadership. Explained open access? It is based

:27:01.:27:05.

on the way the top American universities select pupils. It says

:27:06.:27:11.

the school will take children based on merit alone. We can debate what

:27:11.:27:17.

merit is. Whether they can pay or not. The whole school is available

:27:17.:27:22.

based on merit. Then, you means test parents, some can pay the full

:27:22.:27:28.

fee, some pay partially. This is not a theoretical thing, we took

:27:28.:27:34.

one of the best schools in Liverpool and over seven years, the

:27:34.:27:42.

whole school was opened access. We ended up with 30% of schools on --

:27:42.:27:46.

schoolgirls on free places. A terrific social mix. The academic

:27:46.:27:52.

standards went up because more able schoolgirls were going in. Who paid

:27:52.:28:02.

for it? We paid threat, we are the owners of the school. -- we paid

:28:02.:28:10.

for it. The creaming off argument, we took 50 schoolgirls every year

:28:10.:28:17.

who would have gone to comprehensives, out of 10,000, into

:28:17.:28:24.

the school. One problem I have with this, you assume the displaced

:28:24.:28:29.

private school parents would come back into the state school sector.

:28:29.:28:37.

Some of them well. A subsidised expansion of that sector, it is a

:28:37.:28:44.

curse on our education system, it gives unfair advantage. In much of

:28:44.:28:50.

the Sutton Trust work, you put the problems of the English education

:28:50.:28:57.

system down to social divide. Before 1970 six, 70% of these

:28:57.:29:02.

schools were state funded, and there was much more opportunity. If

:29:02.:29:10.

you were reported you could go to one of these schools. Why should

:29:10.:29:15.

taxpayers subsidise places at independent schools? Because it

:29:15.:29:22.

will get kids into good schools and access to good teachers. It will

:29:22.:29:29.

prevent, we have 80% of judges privately educated, it would

:29:30.:29:36.

actually open up social mobility at the top. It would allow very small

:29:36.:29:40.

numbers of children from disadvantaged backgrounds possibly

:29:40.:29:46.

to get into independent schools. My worry is it would end up with an

:29:46.:29:51.

expansion of the fee-paying sector. You talk about the couple. In my

:29:51.:29:55.

local area, if you expanded that scheme where there is a high number

:29:55.:30:05.
:30:05.:30:12.

of private schools, it would impact Now we have got over 80 independent

:30:12.:30:17.

day schools. They say if the Government will fund it, we will do

:30:17.:30:25.

it. They will not do that, will they? Do you speak to them? All the

:30:25.:30:28.

time. There may be covert support for this but official policy is

:30:28.:30:33.

that it will not be done. We're in this for the long haul and we will

:30:33.:30:37.

keep pushing. He previously said you would not be a private if you

:30:37.:30:46.

paid me. My children have left school now anyway. You can get a

:30:46.:30:49.

very good education in your local state school. That has been my

:30:50.:30:55.

personal experience. We should do many things suggested by the Sutton

:30:55.:31:01.

Trust in terms of raising prospects for children. We spend most of our

:31:01.:31:04.

time focused on the state sector and improving the state sector and

:31:04.:31:10.

improving provision in the state sector. Fiona is right. That has to

:31:10.:31:15.

be the main thrust. Opening up private schools is really important.

:31:16.:31:19.

We will come back to this if the Government holds you secretly it

:31:19.:31:27.

will fund all of theirs. David Cameron was in New York to talk to

:31:27.:31:35.

the United Nations. He found time to appear on the David Letterman

:31:35.:31:39.

Late Show. He set the Prime Minister a test on British

:31:39.:31:46.

political history. Let's have a look at some of his answers. Rule

:31:46.:31:52.

Britannia, written by whom? It is the iconic association with the

:31:52.:31:58.

British Empire. Who wrote that? are testing me there. Elgar, I will

:31:58.:32:07.

go for. Edward Elgar. Rule Britannia, which is a beautiful

:32:07.:32:13.

refrain, based on a poem by James Thomson. Are you familiar with him?

:32:13.:32:21.

I am now! It was set to music in 17 balti pied Thomas Arne. The literal

:32:21.:32:31.
:32:31.:32:33.

translation was what? -- 1745 Thomas Arne. Magna Carta means

:32:33.:32:39.

Great Charter. As we pointed out, the seeds of democracy. Before we

:32:39.:32:42.

move on, a welcome to viewers in Scotland who have been watching

:32:42.:32:50.

First Minister's Questions from Holyrood. Back to David Letterman.

:32:50.:32:54.

I'm joined in studio by Clive Anderson and from America by Mike

:32:54.:33:00.

Hale of the New York Times. What did you think? How did he do?

:33:00.:33:07.

thought he did very well. He did you primal. He was charming and

:33:07.:33:14.

intelligent. -- did you proud. He showed the ability of taking a joke.

:33:14.:33:20.

He was very graceful last night. You like to it. What did the

:33:20.:33:27.

American audience make of it? will be finding out today. From

:33:27.:33:34.

what I saw, Americans will be quite taken with him. I have to say, to

:33:34.:33:38.

be perfectly honest, there are other new stories going on that

:33:38.:33:42.

might be a bit bigger than his appearance on the David Letterman

:33:42.:33:49.

Show last night. Overall he did very well. Why would he want to go

:33:49.:33:53.

on the David Letterman Show? probably likes it and wants to up

:33:53.:33:59.

his profile. His decision to go one was bad timing. He would do better

:33:59.:34:06.

at another time. It upstages his own appearance at the United

:34:06.:34:16.
:34:16.:34:22.

Nations. He is not well established On that basis, how does he compare

:34:22.:34:29.

with people like Tony Blair and Boris Johnson? I have only seen

:34:29.:34:34.

some of the David Letterman interview. They're a bit stingy and

:34:34.:34:43.

releasing the information. It was quite odd, the information. It is

:34:43.:34:48.

odd for him to know what Magna Carta means. He knew when it was

:34:48.:34:53.

signed am broadly speaking what it was about. I do not think he was

:34:53.:35:00.

aware there were several copies. It was all right. I know a little bit

:35:00.:35:05.

about this. I was once going to be on that show a few years ago and I

:35:05.:35:09.

talked myself out of it. A thought it would be the wrong time for me

:35:09.:35:16.

to be on there. Were you worried about being humiliated? Not really.

:35:16.:35:23.

I was in the making a programme - and improvisation programme. I

:35:23.:35:29.

spoke to the segment producer and we had the discussion. In a rather

:35:29.:35:32.

bad, diffident British way, I explained all the reasons a might

:35:32.:35:38.

be a bad choice to go on. You can try to get a second chance to go on

:35:38.:35:43.

the show. Do you think they were the right questions to ask him? It

:35:43.:35:49.

was odd trying to test him on his knowledge. I think they wanted to

:35:49.:35:52.

do a comedy bit and that is what they came up with. What the

:35:53.:35:58.

questions were 20 there here nor there, I don't think American

:35:58.:36:04.

viewers really cared if he knew where the Magna Carta was held or

:36:04.:36:09.

not. I thought after the comedy portion, he came of looking better

:36:09.:36:13.

than David Letterman. The comedy part have not been thought through

:36:13.:36:21.

that well. Funnily enough, up one of the viewers after its said, he

:36:21.:36:27.

seemed quite nice. WKM up on Wikipedia. To Americans know who he

:36:27.:36:36.

is? -- I will look him up. They had not got this close a look of him

:36:36.:36:43.

before. What they got on the show last night was a great opportunity

:36:43.:36:51.

to hear a campaign speech by David Cameron. He was given a series of

:36:51.:36:56.

softball questions, allowing him to boast about the Olympics, set out

:36:56.:37:01.

his theories about monetary policy and the euro, pretty much without

:37:01.:37:08.

interruption. He did pretty well. The problem is for something like -

:37:08.:37:14.

- someone like David Cameron, the fact he had a long time, it does

:37:14.:37:19.

not go around the world. It was not one of his best interviews. They

:37:20.:37:25.

were reduced by the end it to showing a picture of the Downing

:37:25.:37:31.

Street cat. Where they are struggling for material? They were

:37:31.:37:36.

doing British things. I tried to predict what the questions would be.

:37:36.:37:41.

I got it completely wrong. We got it wrong yesterday. We thought it

:37:41.:37:46.

might be something on class, on plebs. Because he is not quite

:37:46.:37:51.

famous enough, it takes too much effort to explain the background. I

:37:51.:37:56.

thought he might have said, what about you leaving your kid in a

:37:56.:38:02.

British pub? He might have been prepared for that. He can't have

:38:02.:38:07.

possibly expected, who wrote Land of Hope and Glory? Who wrote rule

:38:07.:38:12.

Britannia? And what has struggled with that. You'll be pleased to

:38:12.:38:19.

know I'm not going to ask you any questions about that. When I am in

:38:19.:38:29.
:38:29.:38:33.

the States, I do not watch David Letterman. J Lenno is a bid

:38:33.:38:39.

comedian. -- a good comedian. What made the David Letterman Show ask

:38:39.:38:46.

for him to come on? I can only speculate about that. My guess is

:38:46.:38:51.

that his people approached the David Letterman Show. They probably

:38:51.:38:56.

said, why not have the British Prime Minister on this show? I

:38:56.:39:05.

agreed there was feeling throughout that segments -- that segment that

:39:05.:39:14.

he and his producers have not quite belt have to play it. They felt

:39:14.:39:21.

constrained. They could not make fun of him. Basically they let him

:39:21.:39:25.

talk. Do you think Ed Miliband could go on that show? They are not

:39:25.:39:28.

particularly good at dealing with leaders of the opposition. Could

:39:28.:39:38.
:39:38.:39:41.

you imagine it? Once he was in office, if you could imagine that.

:39:41.:39:47.

-- if you could imagine that Dom I do not know my British politicians

:39:47.:39:57.
:39:57.:39:57.

that well. One of the best interviews with the British

:39:57.:40:04.

politician -- with a politician was Carla Bruni Sarkozy. He has an

:40:04.:40:14.
:40:14.:40:18.

entirely different reaction to those guests. It was rather cosy.

:40:18.:40:23.

did an interview with Mikhail Gorbachev. He was very entertaining.

:40:23.:40:29.

He was warm and engaging. Do you think the J-Lo no-show would have

:40:29.:40:35.

been better? He would have any remorse of Paul -- soft ball

:40:35.:40:40.

questions. That is one of the many things that makes him interesting.

:40:40.:40:45.

You cannot work out what was going on. I do not think David Letterman

:40:45.:40:52.

is very funny. Some of his interviews are weird. I want to

:40:52.:40:59.

make a serious point. Of course you can. We have been promoting, his

:40:59.:41:05.

whole specialisation at 15 and 16 and doing three subjects, we should

:41:05.:41:09.

have a Baccalaureate. I guarantee that David Cameron dropped history

:41:09.:41:14.

at GCSE. If he had kept studying history until he was 18, he might

:41:14.:41:24.
:41:24.:41:25.

have known the answer about the Magna Carta. He has more bread some

:41:25.:41:30.

most people in this country. In every other advanced country,

:41:30.:41:37.

people steady eight subjects until they're 18 pretty much. Finally,

:41:37.:41:42.

before we go, what is the UK equivalent of the Late Show? There

:41:42.:41:52.
:41:52.:42:00.

is not an exact equivalent. about this week? -- This Week.

:42:00.:42:06.

Thank you very much. Good luck - a rugged good luck for the appearance

:42:06.:42:14.

on the David Letterman Show of. Now, while we've spent most of the week

:42:14.:42:17.

talking about an angry minister on his bike, and the Lib Dem party

:42:17.:42:20.

conference, elsewhere in the world, there may be more pressing concerns

:42:20.:42:23.

- in particular the threat of nuclear war. Iran's president

:42:23.:42:25.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad made his final address to the UN General Assembly

:42:25.:42:28.

yesterday before he steps down, and accused the West of nuclear

:42:28.:42:38.
:42:38.:42:41.

intimidation. About the pledge to disclose armaments, and dude time

:42:41.:42:49.

is now being used as a new language of threat into accepting a new era.

:42:49.:42:55.

A continued threat by the uncivilised Zionist to resort to

:42:55.:43:00.

military action against a great nation is big it example of this

:43:00.:43:10.
:43:10.:43:10.

bitter reality. To discuss the effect that speech will have on the

:43:10.:43:15.

Middle East and the likelihood that Israel will attack Iran, I am

:43:15.:43:21.

joined by Ben Wallace and Douglas Murray. Douglas Murray, how likely

:43:21.:43:29.

to think it is that Israel will attack Iran? Very likely, indeed

:43:29.:43:31.

inevitable, unless the international community -

:43:31.:43:36.

particularly America - makes it extremely clear that there is no

:43:36.:43:41.

doubt to Iran that the idea of the combination of the Islamic

:43:41.:43:46.

revolutionary government in Iraq gaining a nuclear device - gaining

:43:46.:43:50.

the capability to build a nuclear device - is completely intolerable

:43:50.:43:56.

to us. Unless that is made entirely clear, the Israelis will feel it is

:43:56.:44:00.

only them that truly feel threatened by this and fruity

:44:00.:44:06.

recognise the magnitude of this threat to world peace. -- truly

:44:06.:44:11.

recognise. Only the Israelis will act. Do you agree with that?

:44:11.:44:15.

quite. They will only act if they believe they will get the support

:44:15.:44:20.

of countries like America and, wider afield, Europe and Britain,

:44:21.:44:25.

etc. They will only act if they can achieve the destruction of the

:44:25.:44:31.

nuclear programme. That is one of that challenges ahead. Even within

:44:31.:44:34.

Israel, both Ministry of Defence sources and the ex head of Mossad

:44:34.:44:39.

are split on whether Israel would be able to achieve that. Should

:44:39.:44:49.
:44:49.:44:51.

more be done in the West to prevent The US has already made unilateral

:44:51.:45:01.
:45:01.:45:02.

sanctions. Through financial sanctions and oil sanctions. The

:45:02.:45:08.

problem is, this is not just about Israel. What people forget,

:45:08.:45:14.

actually, this is much more about Saudi and Iran and the rivalries

:45:14.:45:20.

within the region and who will be the dominant partner in that area.

:45:20.:45:27.

The worry for the west is that Israel may trigger something that

:45:27.:45:34.

America, Britain and others do not want to happen. And caused a real

:45:34.:45:39.

problem in that region. Are you saying that the threats from

:45:39.:45:43.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad have been just playing to the audience in terms of

:45:43.:45:53.
:45:53.:45:55.

his frail macro, and Israel takes it far too seriously? -- Israel.

:45:55.:46:03.

There is a huge history of rhetoric. In the 80s, the last supreme

:46:03.:46:11.

leader's rhetoric against the state that shouldn't be, it was is bell

:46:11.:46:21.
:46:21.:46:23.

macro up arming Iran, not the -- it was Israel. We have two separate

:46:23.:46:29.

rhetoric from often the reality. Doesn't Britain have to do that?

:46:29.:46:34.

This is not about rhetoric only, it would be a great mistake to think

:46:34.:46:43.

that. The President of Iran, the Supreme Leader, all of the senior

:46:43.:46:48.

figures have for 30 years desired a desire to wipe out the state of

:46:48.:46:55.

Israel. Among other things, they are doing what they can with their

:46:55.:47:05.
:47:05.:47:08.

current spread of capabilities. They farm and fund his father. --

:47:08.:47:17.

arm Hizbollah. If you like what Iran is doing without a nuclear

:47:17.:47:22.

bomb, you'll love what they will do when they have got one. The idea

:47:22.:47:26.

this is solely about rhetoric is a mistake. But, the rhetoric does

:47:26.:47:32.

matter. A world leader like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is able to continuously

:47:32.:47:36.

claim that the last Holocaust did not happen whilst calling for the

:47:36.:47:44.

next one to occur. You are underestimating the be a threat --

:47:44.:47:50.

the threat? I agree that Iran has used its third parties and

:47:50.:48:00.
:48:00.:48:06.

terrorist links to wage war on his role -- Israel. Let us remember,

:48:06.:48:10.

only in March this year, they said they did not believe the Iranian

:48:10.:48:20.
:48:20.:48:23.

people were rational when it came to Mitchell destruction. Let us

:48:23.:48:32.

take this on. His role is a democracy with many voices --

:48:32.:48:42.
:48:42.:48:45.

Israel. There are many Israelis, not just the Prime Minister

:48:45.:48:51.

Binyamin Netanyahu. One other point is very important. This is a

:48:51.:49:01.
:49:01.:49:06.

problem for his role -- Israel, first. But only first. For the

:49:06.:49:11.

region and the world, what happens after Iran goes nuclear, we already

:49:11.:49:17.

know, all the international bodies known. Sadly, Egypt, all the other

:49:17.:49:26.

countries in the region will themselves be armed with the most

:49:26.:49:33.

genocidal weapons. If anyone thinks this is solely about Israel, they

:49:33.:49:42.

are mistaken. Pakistan has a nuclear weapon. I am not glad that

:49:42.:49:48.

Israel has a nuclear weapon. The Middle East nuclear arms race

:49:48.:49:52.

started with Israel and they did not comply with the directive. We

:49:52.:49:58.

have to recognise that the real issue here, let us remember, I

:49:58.:50:04.

fully defend their right to defend themselves, that is not Britain's

:50:04.:50:10.

national interest. Hoop is blowing up twin towers? Plotting to kill

:50:10.:50:15.

and murdered in this country? It is not Shia Iranian sponsored

:50:15.:50:24.

terrorism. It is Saudi sponsored. What is in Britain's interest? In

:50:24.:50:33.

terms of foreign policy? assault entire run was done with

:50:33.:50:41.

the backing of that government. Britain's interest in how they

:50:41.:50:48.

handle this? First of all, Israel is an ally of us, the only thriving

:50:48.:50:52.

democracy in the region. It is in our national interest that the

:50:52.:51:02.

Middle East does not go nuclear across the board. We want to take

:51:02.:51:09.

nuclear weapons out of the Middle East. Gentle men, I have to stop

:51:09.:51:15.

you both. Just how much should we rely on

:51:15.:51:18.

philanthropy? The government says it wants us all giving more to

:51:18.:51:21.

charity. That was the basis of the Giving white paper launched last

:51:21.:51:24.

year. But, in tough economic times, just how generous are the

:51:24.:51:33.

wealthiest in society being? We sent Susana Mendonca to find out.

:51:33.:51:37.

The boys in this school are a mixture, seven parts fee paying,

:51:37.:51:41.

one part scholarship funded. It is the money donated by rich

:51:41.:51:44.

philanthropists which makes it possible for private schools to

:51:44.:51:48.

bring in pupils from less privileged backgrounds.

:51:48.:51:57.

overwhelming majority operate a out of parental fee income but when be

:51:57.:52:01.

able to do it without philanthropic input. Here are two of the lucky

:52:01.:52:08.

ones who have their �13,000 fees paid for in part by wealthy donors.

:52:08.:52:12.

Isolate her that person. Without that money I would not be able to

:52:12.:52:17.

come to this school. I owe it to the person who sponsored me, to

:52:17.:52:24.

work hard. It is a small group of donors who make the biggest impact.

:52:24.:52:30.

In 2009, just 8% of the population provided 47% of all charitable

:52:30.:52:35.

donations. Despite tough economic times, the number of people giving

:52:36.:52:45.

is holding up. But there are questions. It is often education,

:52:45.:52:51.

higher education in particular. arts institutions are often the big

:52:51.:52:56.

ones based in London. The things that tend to lose out a little bit

:52:56.:53:04.

are issues like drugs, alcohol, disability. Around 133,000

:53:04.:53:09.

charities, three-quarters of them, have received no government funding.

:53:09.:53:16.

Private donors gave �13.1 billion to charity, 37% of all the income

:53:16.:53:26.
:53:26.:53:29.

to charities. Just 833 of the charities in the UK received more

:53:29.:53:39.
:53:39.:53:41.

than half of all the charitable sector income in 2009. The Royal

:53:41.:53:44.

Opera House is giving families the chance to watch Swan Lake at

:53:44.:53:50.

cheaper prices, using the money it gets from philanthropists to

:53:50.:53:55.

subsidise the tickets. After that is his �25 million a year in

:53:55.:53:59.

government arts funding. Less than it used to get. They are clear that

:54:00.:54:04.

philanthropy isn't enough. He it's not enticing to fill a government

:54:04.:54:10.

gap. We couldn't exist without that government support. I do not

:54:10.:54:14.

foresee the day that it will be entirely funded by philanthropic

:54:14.:54:19.

organisations. Maybe it will be different if we were Americans.

:54:19.:54:25.

People who weren't over �150,000 a year donate organs six times the

:54:25.:54:35.
:54:35.:54:38.

amount their British counterparts What are the limits of

:54:38.:54:46.

philanthropy? They do a good job. Even in the UK, we may not give as

:54:46.:54:51.

much as in the States. If you take out there giving in the States to

:54:51.:54:53.

higher education, people giving back to their university, or

:54:53.:55:00.

religious giving, the difference isn't as big. People do give a lot.

:55:00.:55:08.

It is particularly important as the state is spending less. This raises

:55:08.:55:14.

lots of issues. Can philanthropists fill that gap left by the state,

:55:14.:55:21.

and should they? Of course they can't. 0.7% of GDP being given.

:55:21.:55:28.

2.1% in the States. Coming on to higher education, this is a huge

:55:28.:55:33.

issue. There are 100 universities in America where they have an

:55:33.:55:40.

annual giving away off 50%, 50% of graduates give them money every

:55:40.:55:49.

year. We have to. How do you make it happen? The culture of given --

:55:49.:55:55.

giving, we do not have here. There is a tax issue. In America you get

:55:55.:56:01.

a straight deduction from look income. Here, we have a gift Aid

:56:01.:56:04.

scheme where the charity claims that some, you claim that sum. It

:56:04.:56:11.

is complicated. If we change that system, is that what should be done

:56:11.:56:17.

to encourage people to give? tax system does influence giving.

:56:17.:56:23.

Actually, our tax system, there have been a lot of differences, but

:56:23.:56:28.

it could be simpler. I am not sure I want to see all of this money

:56:28.:56:35.

disappearing into universities. There are a lot of good causes.

:56:35.:56:38.

Universities are getting better at asking for money. Will they now

:56:39.:56:44.

give it to Oxford and Cambridge but not a mental health charity?

:56:44.:56:50.

would go to other charities as well. If you change the way. Why should

:56:50.:56:55.

wealthy philanthropists choose? When I was in New York, making a

:56:55.:57:00.

reasonable amount of money, by tax advisers said, you are paying too

:57:00.:57:08.

much, why not give some money to good causes? Homeless. You're all

:57:08.:57:12.

to university. That goes on in the States. No one would ever say that

:57:12.:57:21.

here. Tax is really important, to stop people giving once they are

:57:21.:57:26.

earning money. Delight said they would start giving to their pet

:57:26.:57:33.

project, not the spread of smaller charities, less fashionable. They

:57:33.:57:40.

would suffer. I think people give to all kinds of charities. Some

:57:40.:57:46.

want to give to universities, some too early years centres. We would

:57:46.:57:51.

find the whole level of charitable giving, if we change the tax, we

:57:51.:57:56.

change the culture of giving, we would approach American levels,

:57:56.:58:02.

which would be highly desirable. Tax does matter but I don't want

:58:02.:58:05.

rich people giving because they want a tax break. I want them to

:58:05.:58:12.

give because they want to do some good. We work with a lot of

:58:12.:58:20.

philanthropists, to help them do the best they can. At the moment,

:58:20.:58:25.

there are people in need around the country, where statutory services

:58:25.:58:30.

are being withdrawn, were you are an unemployed young person, we want

:58:30.:58:39.

this to be funded. At 0.7% of GDP, you won't make a big difference on

:58:39.:58:46.

that. That's all for today. Thanks to our guest of the day, and all

:58:46.:58:50.

our guests. The one o'clock news is starting over on BBC One now.

:58:50.:58:53.

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