Browse content similar to 05/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Good afternoon and welcome to the Daily Politics. The party | :00:41. | :00:44. | |
conference bandwagon enters the home straight as the Conservatives | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
prepare for their little shindig in Birmingham next week. But can David | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
Cameron rally the troops like Ed Miliband did? He has a bus on his | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
hands. Behind in the polls and facing criticism from all sides | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
about his leadership. We will speak to one of his ministers. | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
The got a spare 10 billion euros? De EU has a past be run out of cash. | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
We will speak to the French MEP who thinks it is time to cough up. | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
Thousands of BBC employees as well as other public sector workers have | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
been helped to pay less tax. MPs issued a damning report. | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
And who is up, who is down? We will have a round-up of the last seven | :01:24. | :01:33. | |
:01:34. | :01:34. | ||
All that in the next hour. With us is Rachel Sylvester from the Times | :01:34. | :01:38. | |
and Steve Richards on the Independent. Welcome to both of you. | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
Let's start with the news that tax arrangements for some public sector | :01:42. | :01:47. | |
workers have been criticised by MPs. A Public Accounts Committee report | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
says too many make their own arrangements to pay tax and | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
national insurance, which could allow them to pay less. The chair | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
of the committee, Margaret Hodge, says public sector workers have to | :01:58. | :02:02. | |
be whiter than white. If you work in the public service, | :02:02. | :02:08. | |
it is upon you to lead by example. Hard-working families up and down | :02:08. | :02:13. | |
the country are paying a lot in tax, and it is wrong that individuals | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
working in the public service, whose money comes from the tax | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
those families pay, are not paying their share. | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
Margaret Hodge. Rachel Sylvester, at what point does it become | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
immoral to try to reduce the amount of tax that you pay? It is not | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
illegal. The Times has had a huge reaction | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
to its campaign on tax avoidance. There is a difference between | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
something illegal and something immoral. There is a grey area, but | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
I think there are times when you are within the law that it is not | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
right. Interestingly, politicians have cottoned on to this. It is a | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
way in which the Tory party can be criticising wealthy billionaire's | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
who are avoiding tax, and their way of making themselves seem not just | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
on the side of the rich. Labour get to hit at them, too. | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
What about it being targeted at public sector workers or those who | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
work in the public sector? Somehow they should not be allowed to | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
reduce their tax rate, even within the law? | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Margaret Hodge summed it up when she said that they are being paid | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
through the taxation system. Therefore they have a moral | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
obligation. I think others do as well, actually. I can't see the | :03:36. | :03:44. | |
case why some should pay 40% or whatever and others 21%. There is | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
no logical moral argument justifying it. Also, now, we need | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
the money. Where do you draw the line? You | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
agree with it in principle, saying it was a populist campaign. Where | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
do you draw the line on avoidance? How do you legislate for people not | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
to have accountants who can reduce tax? | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
There are mechanisms that are clearly aggressively designed to | :04:11. | :04:16. | |
avoid paying tax. It is not just using the system in a way that is | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
clearly fair and above board. It is aggressively going out and trying | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
to avoid paying tax. That is wrong. Let's move on to our quiz. Today is | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
the 50th anniversary of the release of the first James Bond film, Dr No. | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
The question for today is which Cabinet minister has a Bond poster | :04:36. | :04:46. | |
:04:46. | :04:46. | ||
of themselves? David Cameron, William Hague, Theresa May, or Eric | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
Pickles? What a fine bunch! At the end of | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
the show, our guests will try to give us the right answer. | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
As David Cameron... Something for you to think about! As David | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
Cameron packs for Birmingham, he may think that the backdrop to the | :05:03. | :05:07. | |
conference is not all he would have hoped for. The blunder over the | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
West Coast rail franchise has revived claims that his government | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
is incompetent, perhaps it is still in the grip of the budget | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
omnishambles we started back in the sprint. It Miliband's pitch to | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
represent One Nation at his conference has caught some movement | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
in the polls, with 27% of people in one survey saying the Labour leader | :05:26. | :05:32. | |
would make the best Prime Minister. Only just behind Mr Cameron, who is | :05:32. | :05:37. | |
on 31%. And Mr Cameron has got friends like Boris Johnson | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
challenging the way he is leading the party. The London mayor has | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
accused the government of complacency over airport capacity | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
in the south-east of England. Liam Fox from the right of the party | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
says today that the Tories are being ban by a metropolitan elite. | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
Wonder who he could have in mind! Believes Mr Cameron with a tricky | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
balancing act. Does he defend the coalition or find some red meat for | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
the party faithful? Let's be to our political correspondent, Chris | :06:07. | :06:12. | |
Mason. Let's look at the slogan. Britain can deliver. Is it an | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
attempt to reclaim the One Nation idea from Ed Miliband? | :06:16. | :06:20. | |
To an extent. The banner has just been unveiled in the last hour or | :06:20. | :06:28. | |
so. The security sweep is under way before people start to arrive. | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
Britain can deliver - the response to all of the Labour stuff we had | :06:34. | :06:41. | |
earlier in the week. The emphasis is on a job that is continuing to | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
be done. That is the subtext of the slogan. The emphasis is that 25% of | :06:46. | :06:51. | |
the deficit has been paid down. There is big reform going on in | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
education in England, in the welfare state and the benefits | :06:54. | :06:59. | |
system, and there is more to achieve. They say, they will argue, | :06:59. | :07:02. | |
that the Conservatives can achieve it in coalition and even more | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
quickly if there was a Conservative majority government after 2015. The | :07:07. | :07:14. | |
party chairman started off a few days of banging the Conservative | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
trump. He has given an interview to the Evening Standard. He was asked, | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
will be Conservatives show mercy to the Lib Dems at the election? | :07:23. | :07:33. | |
:07:33. | :07:33. | ||
Answer? Absolutely not. Lord Ashcroft, the former chairman, | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
has carried out some polling to find out why certain groups are not | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
voting Conservative. Interesting reading? | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
Very interesting. What he has done, and of course, any attempt to | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
conduct a poll and then trunk up segments of society into categories | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
and attach a label, that runs a risk of being lampooned as quiet | :07:55. | :08:03. | |
that people, it be like in the sitcoms. It is a thoughtful piece | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
of work, though. It also about suspicious strivers. It seems a bit | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
like the Labour idea of the squeeze to mid-off. He feared that the | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
Conservatives have alienated those people who fear that there are | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
those who are reliant on the state, who are helped by government, and | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
there are those at the top of the pecking order who are helped by the | :08:25. | :08:35. | |
:08:35. | :08:36. | ||
state as well. But there are those suspicious drivers -- strivers who | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
have Conservative ideals but fear the state does not help them | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
sufficiently. He fears those people have peeled off in the direction of | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
Labour in the last couple of years. If the Conservatives can secure the | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
majority, they need to win them back before 2015. | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
With us now is the Conservative Home Office minister James | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
Brokenshire. Welcome back to the Daily Politics. We just discussed | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
the slogan. If you can't deliver the West Coast Mainline, the at | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
said the government has earned irritation for incompetence? | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
-- do you accept the government has earned a reputation for | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
incompetence? The mood of the conference will be | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
how we need to continue to deliver for Britain, supporting those | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
people who are striving in difficulty to ensure that we are | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
helping those in to work. Some things we have already done, like | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
cutting the deficit, the work programmes supporting 330,000 | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
people into employment. It is that Focus that we will have during the | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
conference. But what will be at the forefront | :09:45. | :09:54. | |
will be the tax bill of a least �40 million because of this West Coast | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
Mainline fiasco. It is right Bedi Transport | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
Secretary is taking the steps in terms of the two reviews being | :10:00. | :10:08. | |
taken. -- it is right that the Transport Secretary. That is the | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
right thing for him to do. He is taking clear action in this regard. | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
Clearly, we need to sort the issue out. | :10:15. | :10:21. | |
As a Home Office minister, you must be pleased the focus is not on your | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
department for once. Are you relieved? | :10:27. | :10:34. | |
The Home Office is always an interesting place. But no, our | :10:34. | :10:39. | |
focus is on securing the public, making sure we have the police | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
doing the job we want them to do, free of the bureaucracy of the last | :10:43. | :10:49. | |
government. That is our focus, and clearly, the issues that the Home | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
Secretary and also the Justice Secretary will be taking forward, | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
they are how we can deliver the scent of safety. The Justice | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
Secretary has met an interesting comments about how we can get | :11:00. | :11:04. | |
community punishment. We will come onto that. Do the | :11:04. | :11:13. | |
comments attributed to be Andrew -- to Andromede due -- to be to do | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
Andrew Mitchell will be harmful? That was utterly wrong. | :11:19. | :11:22. | |
It was right for him not to go to the conference? | :11:23. | :11:28. | |
That is a matter for Andrew. He has made that decision. That is for him | :11:28. | :11:36. | |
to decide. We do respect our police at this time, when we have seen of | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
the real dangers that they can be involved in. I understand that. | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
That is why we want to support the police, ensuring that government | :11:46. | :11:56. | |
:11:56. | :12:02. | ||
itself, central government, is His Boris Johnson... | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
I think people will vote for the Conservatives. They will understand | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
the power people will have over law and order on their streets. | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
Somebody else who talks about that in London is the mayor, Boris | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
Johnson. He is a friend of the government, or an enemy? | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
He is a fantastic advocate of the Conservative Party and of London. I | :12:27. | :12:33. | |
worked alongside him during the Olympics, as well as the Prime | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Minister. It is a powerful show they can bring to the fore. I think | :12:36. | :12:40. | |
he will be a great advocate for the party. He is doing his bit for | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
London, in his way. It is right that he should do so. | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
But do you agree with his comments criticising the government over the | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
aviation capacity? He has criticised them a lot of what he | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
called a timetable for economic catastrophe, unless a deal with the | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
lack of capacity in the South East. I think we need to base this on the | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
evidence. That is what the government is doing, looking at the | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
various capacities. Is that helpful to the government? | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
Boris has got to do his job as Mayor of London, seeing what he | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
thinks is the right thing for him to be putting forward. That is his | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
own perspective. What we need to do is to look at the evidence. But | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
what the Government is intending to do. We need to get this decision | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
right, understanding what the aviation industry needs. | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
His Boris Johnson going to be a help or a hindrance at this | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
conference? I think he will be a hindrance. He | :13:46. | :13:51. | |
is going to show people an alternative. There is a tetchy mood | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
in the party because of the polls. People will have a different | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
analysis about the ratings, and Boris has his. The interesting | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
thing coming out of the Labour conference, when Ed Miliband to be | :14:04. | :14:14. | |
:14:14. | :14:14. | ||
a One Nation label, is whether David Cameron can come back. -- | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
went Ed Miliband took the One Nation label. You have got people | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
like Boris in the wings. If Cameron can put a stamp on the party, that | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
will put an end to it. A what does David Cameron need to | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
do, then? Dusty answer the question that has been outlined or does he | :14:33. | :14:43. | |
:14:43. | :14:57. | ||
To be honest, he cannot do anything. Governments have set their course | :14:57. | :15:03. | |
by now. Budgets, Queen's speeches, autumn reports were the course is | :15:03. | :15:10. | |
set. As Rachel suggested, after an early flirtation with the centre | :15:10. | :15:16. | |
ground, one nation Toryism, whether you disagree with it or agree with | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
it, on the right, whether it is the economic policies or the public | :15:20. | :15:25. | |
service reforms. It has been closer to that part of the political | :15:25. | :15:29. | |
spectrum in recent years. I don't think a speech on Wednesday morning | :15:29. | :15:36. | |
will change very much. What do you say to that? I think we have the | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
opportunity which I think will be taken, to set out the tough | :15:40. | :15:47. | |
decisions we need to take to get the economy right. We have cut the | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
deficit by a quarter already. deficit that is going back up again. | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
We have created 1.2 million private sector jobs. Also things on welfare | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
reform as well. If you are in work, work will always pay. We have a | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
culture that is the hand of to assist people into work, rather | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
than the handout dependency culture we had under Labour. We have fancy | :16:17. | :16:22. | |
rhetoric from the Labour Party setting out some slogans, but very | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
light on substance. You will see in the coming week, a real substance | :16:26. | :16:33. | |
on what is happening. The back empty rhetoric has delivered its 14. | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
Lead for Labour and even more worrying, David Cameron's poll | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
ratings are starting to slide against Ed Miliband. Do you see Ed | :16:43. | :16:51. | |
Miliband as an s it? My focus is ensuring we get the country right. | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
We are going to underline the lack of vision, lack of focus and the | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
fact that the Labour leader has been looking to the past in terms | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
of trying to draw upon a previous Conservative Prime Minister. If he | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
wants to use Conservative slogans, it is up to him. But he is not | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
learning, accepting the mistakes the last Labour Government made. So | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
how can he offer the future? It is an important message to give on the | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
mistakes that were made, how we are dealing with those problems and | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
delivering for Britain. Thanks very much, have a good conference. Now, | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
have you got a spare ten billion euros? No? Well we might be asked | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
to help out a bit after a warning this week that the European Union | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
needs some extra cash to tide it over until Christmas. Alain | :17:38. | :17:40. | |
Lamassoure, the French MEP who chairs the European Parliament's | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
Budget Committee, says the EU is running out of money and needs an | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
extra ten billion euros to finance its projects up to the end of the | :17:47. | :17:54. | |
year. Monsieur Lamassoure joins us now from Paris. | :17:54. | :18:00. | |
Are you saying the EU's 10 billion euros overspends the this year? It | :18:00. | :18:08. | |
is an awful lot of money. It is an order of magnitude, the European | :18:08. | :18:13. | |
Commission will be able to precise the figure. The problem is, we lack | :18:13. | :18:23. | |
:18:23. | :18:26. | ||
cash. As you know, in every Budget, we make this thing wishing between | :18:26. | :18:33. | |
money we have to commit ourselves to those services. It is commitment | :18:33. | :18:41. | |
appropriation. And when the services are delivered, we pay and | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
we need payments appropriations. We have had enough commitments, but | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
now when money is committed and the service delivered, we have to pay | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
and we lack the cash. People say you have not budgeted properly, you | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
have spent the money frivolously and now you are expecting nation- | :19:02. | :19:08. | |
states, who come a lot of them are struggling in recession, too strong | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
up the extra cash? responsibility for that is not the | :19:15. | :19:22. | |
European Parliament it is budget ministers. Every year when we | :19:22. | :19:28. | |
negotiate the amount and structure of the EU budget, the budget | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
ministers on one side and Parliament on the other side. We | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
discuss commitments. When you commit money, it is not an election | :19:38. | :19:43. | |
promise, it is a legal obligation. On commitments, ministers don't | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
care, they don't even discuss it. They are only interested on | :19:49. | :19:57. | |
payments. So they are generous on commitments, but they are very | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
Mauritius on payments. Now we are in this contradiction. If we have | :20:02. | :20:09. | |
to pay, it is not due to the extravagance of the Eurocrats, it | :20:09. | :20:17. | |
is due to the contradiction of budget ministers between what they | :20:17. | :20:23. | |
commit and what they don't want to pay. There is an argument that says | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
are you making a fuss about this now, highlighting this | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
contradiction, as you set out, in order to increase pressure on the | :20:33. | :20:43. | |
:20:43. | :20:47. | ||
nation states to put up the EU budget beyond 2013? My arguments -- | :20:47. | :20:55. | |
argument is to demonstrate, to oblige governments to avoid double | :20:55. | :21:03. | |
talk, to be candid and to say what they want really. Last June, there | :21:03. | :21:12. | |
was a European Council. As you know, the European summits is taking | :21:12. | :21:20. | |
unanimously. And they decided unanimously that 120 billion euros | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
more would be dedicated to sustain growth and competitiveness in the | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
European Union. And it was agreed by everybody, including the British | :21:32. | :21:39. | |
Prime Minister. And, a few weeks later when we start of fulfilling | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
this decision, we realise all finance ministers want to cut the | :21:45. | :21:55. | |
payments. Instead of increasing them. Things have to be clear. We, | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
as you mention, we are preparing for talks on the framework of the | :22:00. | :22:08. | |
EU budget for the next seven years. But things have to be clear. Who | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
wants to increase the EU budget? He wants to freeze or cut the EU | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
budget? But, when you decide to raise it, you have to pay. When you | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
commit you have to deliver. have made that clear, I will put | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
that to members of the European Parliament. | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
We can talk now to the UKIP MEP, Marta Andreasen, who's in our | :22:30. | :22:40. | |
:22:40. | :22:42. | ||
Southampton studio. Hasn't he got a point? He says they want to do all | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
these things, he says they had committed the nations to these | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
things and now they don't want to pay up? This is the same Commission | :22:51. | :22:58. | |
that told us in February that they had a shortfall for 2011 of 11 | :22:58. | :23:07. | |
billion euros. But in April, two months later they had a surplus for | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
2011 of 1.5 billion euros. This has no reliable information or evidence | :23:11. | :23:17. | |
they need the money. He talks about the commitments, but the | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
commitments that are recorded on the books of the Commission are not | :23:21. | :23:26. | |
legal commitments. It is a setting a part of some money for certain | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
projects. The initiative that comes from the Commission and from the | :23:30. | :23:34. | |
Parliament committees, it does not come actually from the member | :23:34. | :23:42. | |
states. I was voting for one day and a half for the Budget in 2013. | :23:42. | :23:47. | |
A lot of initiatives are put on by the political parties in the | :23:47. | :23:52. | |
Parliament without actually knowing if there is any need. Let me tell | :23:52. | :23:59. | |
you, cohesion funding requires Co financing by the member states. | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
Member states have no money to do this. How can they do this if they | :24:04. | :24:12. | |
need more money for cohesion funding now? There are two points | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
made by Alleyne. He said the projects need to be paid for and | :24:16. | :24:21. | |
there is a legal obligation, he says it is legally binding those | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
nation-states to have asked for those projects to be completed, | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
have now been completed and the payments must be there. Are you | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
saying, just because they have not got any money because of the | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
economic situation, they shouldn't be obliged to pay up? Or are you | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
saying they have got their sums wrong? I am saying the need to pay | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
is not there. The calculation of 10 billion came up after a meeting | :24:49. | :24:55. | |
with the budget commissioner. He came to support the need for 10 | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
billion, just saying at the end of September 2012, 80% of the | :25:01. | :25:08. | |
commitments have been paid. Well as at the end of September 2011, only | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
3% of the commitment has been paid. He deals because of the rate of | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
payments is higher at the end of September, it is in need of cash. | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
This is the only evidence he provides. He does not list to us, a | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
list of legal commitments the countries are asking to pay but. | :25:28. | :25:34. | |
Thank you very much. Listening to both sides of the argument, how | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
much chance do you think David Cameron has in terms of arguing for | :25:37. | :25:43. | |
a freeze in terms of the EU budget? I have no idea. He won't win that | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
because he has no power to impose VAT on himself. They suppose he | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
would get some cosmetic victory in terms of Britain's contribution | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
because he needs to do that. What is interesting is, at the next | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
election, the three major party leaders will go into the election | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
offering a referendum on Europe. None of them will personally | :26:06. | :26:12. | |
believe it or want to hold it. don't think they personally won't | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
believe it, why not? The Lib Dems always said they would hold the | :26:16. | :26:23. | |
referendum. There is a risk now, been made that pledge years ago, | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
and the risk is now they would lose it. One of the other two will win | :26:28. | :26:35. | |
and will be obliged to hold this nightmarish thing. It David Cameron | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
is the Prime Minister, it will split his party. It Ed Miliband it | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
is the Prime Minister, he risks losing it. None of them will want | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
to hold the referendum but all three will go into the next | :26:48. | :26:55. | |
election offering it. The main threat to the main parties is UKIP. | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
This is the sort of argument they are continuing to present to the | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
British people, saying costs have been and are running out of control. | :27:03. | :27:09. | |
There will benefit from this row? It taps into the idea of out of | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
touch bureaucrats making decisions about our money. It is the small | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
person against the machine. And small parties like UKIP and the | :27:19. | :27:24. | |
Green Party can tap into because of the disillusionment with wider | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
politics. In the end, we have talked before about any deal that | :27:28. | :27:36. | |
could be done between UKIP and David Cameron. If the parties do a | :27:36. | :27:43. | |
further referendum, it will shoot their thought? He depends what the | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
referendum is. David Cameron will have to do what Harold Wilson did | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
in 1974 and renegotiate our terms of membership. And then say on the | :27:52. | :27:57. | |
basis of that we will offer a referendum. But also David Cameron | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
will have to campaign for staying in. He won't go into a referendum | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
campaign to take Britain out. he has resisted going for the | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
referendum in the first place because it puts him in a difficult | :28:09. | :28:11. | |
position. The North of England hasn't exactly | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
been a happy hunting ground for the Conservatives of late. They lost | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
more than 100 councillors in the last set of local elections and | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
there are 25 fewer MPs in the region now than there were at the | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
height of Thatcherism. As a consequence, a great deal of | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
thought and energy is being expended on how to restore the | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
party's fortunes in the region. But is the North a lost cause, or can | :28:30. | :28:39. | |
the Tories turn things round? David Thompson reports. | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
Tynemouth, a few miles outside Newcastle, the kind of place you | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
might end of it you have made it in the North East. Conservative, but | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
not necessarily with a big sea. If this street was a few hundred miles | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
to the south, chances are it would be in a safe Tory seat. Because it | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
is in the north, it isn't. It feels like it should have Conservative | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
written all over it, but yet places like this all over England, the | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
party is failing and struggling to get its message across. What would | :29:12. | :29:17. | |
it take to get you to vote Conservative? Nothing, I wouldn't | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
vote Conservative. Why not? It is how I had been brought up. Have you | :29:22. | :29:27. | |
ever thought about voting Conservative? Yes, it in the last | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
time when Margaret Thatcher was in. I voted Conservative last time | :29:31. | :29:36. | |
because I thought Labour had lost the plot. But now they have been in | :29:36. | :29:42. | |
power couple of years, I am not so certain. What we did get you to | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
vote Conservative? You have not got enough money in the world. A loaded | :29:46. | :29:53. | |
gun! Those attitudes are being felt on the ground. His place hasn't had | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
a Conservative MP since 1977. The local council does have a Tory | :29:57. | :30:03. | |
mayor, but the party has gone from having 31 councillors in 2010 to | :30:03. | :30:09. | |
just 12 now. And his former group leader, himself a casualty, reckons | :30:09. | :30:19. | |
:30:19. | :30:27. | ||
this was created down south. Are very few people were affected | :30:27. | :30:35. | |
by the tax relief, but it played badly with the public. Conservative | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
voters decided to stay at home. They say 1,000 miles Jenny start of | :30:40. | :30:46. | |
a single step. Guy Opperman did not do that but he tried to work out | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
how to find friends for his party in the north. | :30:49. | :30:59. | |
:30:59. | :31:00. | ||
I walked over 200 miles, from Sheffield to Scotland. The events | :31:00. | :31:05. | |
were in suburban places, and I was trying to listen to people, talk to | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
people and get a better understanding of the problems we | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
face and what we need to do to win in the north. | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
The problem is the communication of the message. | :31:15. | :31:19. | |
The policies we are coming up with, they are very good. They are | :31:19. | :31:23. | |
positive. But we have not been getting the message across, and we | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
have not been getting it across locally or nationally. | :31:28. | :31:34. | |
According to policy experts, like this one, the process could begin | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
with a single word - you know, the hardest one. | :31:39. | :31:45. | |
Tories have to say they understand why people haven't been voting Tory. | :31:45. | :31:52. | |
They have to say, look, sorry, now is it time to give us a second | :31:52. | :32:02. | |
:32:02. | :32:02. | ||
chance. Now is the time to listen to the message. Especially if the | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
message is a blue-collar narrative about opportunity and job creation, | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
and about helping people who are affected by squeezing living | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
standards. Attitudes can take a long time to | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
turn around, especially in politics. But if the Conservatives want | :32:17. | :32:21. | |
another term in power, they need the North of England. Perhaps more | :32:21. | :32:28. | |
than the North needs them. Guy Opperman joins us. How long was | :32:28. | :32:35. | |
the walk? 275 miles, from just outside | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
Sheffield, through County Down, six days in my constituency, and over | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
the border into Scotland. Did it rain? | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
All the time! At it was interesting listening to people. | :32:49. | :32:56. | |
It was good to hear what people were saying. We talk about what we | :32:56. | :33:02. | |
were doing on immigration. People like that. They did not know that | :33:02. | :33:10. | |
is what they were -- we were doing. In my area, in the summer, we had a | :33:10. | :33:15. | |
local election. We increased our vote by 10%, and won a seat from | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
the Lib Dems. If you were talking to David | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
Cameron, what we do ask him to do to turn it around? What two or | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
three things would be done to get the votes. | :33:27. | :33:32. | |
It would not happen just like that. It would not be immediately. We | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
need to communicate the message, get out there, actually tell people | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
what we are doing. If you do that, and you explain the immigration cap, | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
explain what we are doing on benefits, those things resonate | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
with voters. What about things like petrol | :33:48. | :33:52. | |
prices? Ave is the sort of issues that would appeal to northern | :33:52. | :33:58. | |
voters? -- are these. The petrol price has been frozen 10 | :33:58. | :34:08. | |
times. 10 times it went up under Labour. That is a stark message. We | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
make that point to Labour voters and they understand. | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
A do you think the leadership gets it, though? | :34:15. | :34:20. | |
I think they understand the north. Eric Pickles is from Bradford. You | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
can see the work we have done in Yorkshire. The Foreign Secretary is | :34:24. | :34:29. | |
from Yorkshire. It is not the case that they are not from the north. | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
We have got to start from the basis, when locally, which is what we are | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
doing in Northumberland and Yorkshire. | :34:36. | :34:40. | |
Is the North going the same way for the Tories as Scotland? | :34:40. | :34:44. | |
It was interesting to be at the Labour Party Conference. I did not | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
understand they have not got a single councillor in Scotland, for | :34:48. | :34:57. | |
example. There is a real danger, and it is interesting when you ask | :34:57. | :35:04. | |
if David Cameron gets the serious nature of it. Yes, he does. I spoke | :35:04. | :35:09. | |
to him in the leadership conference -- competition. He said he wanted | :35:09. | :35:18. | |
to make inroads in Scotland. Since then, as we were discussing earlier, | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
the policy direction he has taken has alienated too many of the | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
voters. What do you say to that? I disagree. | :35:29. | :35:34. | |
It must be about policy. Look at the caps on immigration and | :35:34. | :35:39. | |
benefits. They are robust conservative policies that are | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
popular. Look at successes like Yorkshire. We took a dozen seats at | :35:43. | :35:51. | |
the last election. Look at Bradford, with a 23% Kashmiri constituency, | :35:51. | :35:57. | |
and it was one away from Labour. We heard from some people that you | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
have not got enough money to make them vote Conservative. But there | :36:02. | :36:10. | |
is a problem with image. That is always going to be the case. | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
The North South divide is something that Ed Miliband is trying to make | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
something out of. Are the Tories on a hiding to | :36:18. | :36:23. | |
nothing? I think there is a perception of a | :36:23. | :36:29. | |
metropolitan elite in Number Ten. You have a big number of Old | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
Etonians, friends of Dave and George from Oxford in the machine | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
and in government. That does alienate people. The problem is, | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
that is compounded by things like cutting the top rate of tax. The | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
image problem that the Tories have has been exacerbated by decisions | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
they have made in power, which appeared to favour the rich over | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
the poor. That is a decision, not just an image. | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
When I was selected I was better known as a jockey than a politician. | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
It is true that you need to be more local and you need to work much | :37:03. | :37:08. | |
harder on the ground, and that message needs to get across. You | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
are a local represent the first and foremost. You're not a northerner. | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
How did you get elected? I was better known as a jockey than | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
a politician. That is how you made the connection? | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
I was also up there running a business. | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
But you are now representing a northern constituency. Has it open | :37:27. | :37:36. | |
your eyes to the real concerns? It has. Also, going on the walks. | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
22 days later we talking to people, chatting away, it was a good | :37:42. | :37:48. | |
process. -- literally talking to people. | :37:48. | :37:52. | |
Labour can't take anything for granted. | :37:52. | :37:57. | |
You are right about that. They saw Scotland as there has and took it | :37:57. | :38:06. | |
for granted. -- as theirs. In the current situation, no party can | :38:06. | :38:11. | |
take anything for granted. However, I think it is about image, of | :38:11. | :38:17. | |
course, but to do better policy, the recession, and we are still in | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
recession, is affecting the Northmoor. | :38:21. | :38:31. | |
:38:31. | :38:34. | ||
That is simply not the case. But presumably it is countered by a | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
drop in the public sector. A Yes, but jobs are going up. | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
Apprentices are over 50%. These are good messages. What you have just | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
said is wrong. Well, thank you for coming in. I | :38:48. | :38:55. | |
hope you next walk is sunnier. you were a factor jockey, you have | :38:55. | :39:01. | |
lost it all! Thank you. This week, far from River -- living | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
up to its reputation, the Civil Service has looked like a Robin | :39:08. | :39:10. | |
Reliant. Civil servants have been getting it in the neck from | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
ministers accusing them of gross incompetence in the wake of the | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
West Coast Mainline fiasco. It is expected to cost the taxpayer �40 | :39:18. | :39:22. | |
million at least. The new Transport Secretary has made it clear who he | :39:22. | :39:32. | |
:39:32. | :39:33. | ||
Then, in a speech on Tuesday, the minister for the Cabinet Office, | :39:33. | :39:43. | |
:39:43. | :39:48. | ||
Not all mandarins have taken this lying down. The former cabinet | :39:48. | :39:58. | |
:39:58. | :40:00. | ||
secretary, Lord O'Donnell, warned I have been joined by Siobhan | :40:00. | :40:05. | |
Benita, the former London mayor candidate and former civil servant, | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
and Douglas Carswell, the Tory backbencher. Siobhan Benita, is it | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
unreasonable for ministers to assume that civil servants, | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
supposedly intelligent people, can get their sums right? | :40:16. | :40:24. | |
That is not unreasonable. What is unreasonable to blame them -- is to | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
blame them when things go wrong. Ministers are quick to take the | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
credit when things go well. We have had the Olympics, politicians from | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
all parties quick to associate themselves with that. You did not | :40:35. | :40:38. | |
see civil servants getting credit for those things. When something | :40:38. | :40:42. | |
goes wrong, this is a shared responsibility. You do have | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
ministers as well as civil servants being held to account. | :40:47. | :40:51. | |
Even though in this case, they are qualified civil servants looking at | :40:51. | :40:55. | |
technical spreadsheet and matters in terms of passenger numbers and | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
pressures that would have come up in the next few years to deal -- to | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
do with these franchises. I take your point that they should take | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
responsibility because they are accountable. It but -- but it can't | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
be a minister's fault, can it? A contract as they as this, | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
ministers would have known this comes under a lot of scrutiny. Sure, | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
the junior officials would have had to do their part in this. But it | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
would have had to go through the board, and the board is chaired by | :41:28. | :41:31. | |
the Secretary of State for Transport. You have an internal | :41:31. | :41:37. | |
audit process, which non executives chair. They have to have various | :41:37. | :41:44. | |
responsibilities. Douglas Carswell, do you think that | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
if Theresa Villiers and Justine Greening, if they were still in | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
post, would they have to resign? I don't think anybody thinks the | :41:52. | :41:57. | |
minister should look at the figures and be able to work out whether the | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
civil servants have factored in inflation. But there's a lot of | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
sense in what should Vaughan says. We should never have a situation | :42:06. | :42:15. | |
when SL7 can hide behind a mandarin. -- when a minister. What we needed | :42:15. | :42:19. | |
to make sure that civil servants and mandarins are accountable. I | :42:19. | :42:23. | |
have been in the House of Commons for five or six years, and I have | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
been shocked at how little accountability there is among the | :42:28. | :42:33. | |
white will mandarins. It is not just that they seem to be | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
incompetent at times with catastrophic effects of the tax | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
payer. The Civil Service is more of a self- service. They are | :42:42. | :42:46. | |
interested in of strutting policy. Let's get back to the calibre of | :42:46. | :42:56. | |
:42:56. | :43:00. | ||
the civil servant. Who recruits them? Have cuts made a difference? | :43:00. | :43:04. | |
If you ask a civil servant for the answer is, surprise, surprise, they | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
are going to say, pay them more and train them more. Perhaps the | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
problem is in the fact that it does not matter how expendable are, if | :43:13. | :43:19. | |
the government is so big it is beyond any Western, the government | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
cannot get it right. -- any wisdom. | :43:24. | :43:31. | |
I would be surprised if any of those civil servants were not | :43:31. | :43:41. | |
:43:41. | :43:42. | ||
bought in from the private sector. They have a revolving door. Do we | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
have the skilled staff that we need in the Civil Service? Shutters have | :43:47. | :43:53. | |
been put in place now which mean it is so difficult to sign of training | :43:53. | :43:56. | |
in the Civil Service. -- structures. Even if you want to grow skills, it | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
is hard to do that. We have a lot of civil servants were doing | :44:01. | :44:11. | |
:44:11. | :44:11. | ||
complex jobs that, years ago, they did not do. | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
If in the private sector somebody made a decision costing millions of | :44:15. | :44:24. | |
pounds, there would be no attempt to excuse them. But civil servants | :44:25. | :44:34. | |
:44:35. | :44:36. | ||
can't as easily make their case in the way that ministers do. | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
Maybe the way to answer this is to accept that the point -- doctrine | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
of accountability to Parliament is broken. We need Congressional | :44:45. | :44:53. | |
accountability. Visible seven needs to come before the committee and | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
explain themselves. -- the civil servant. | :44:58. | :45:07. | |
Are ministers without criticism here was -- criticism here? | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
We are getting into a war of attrition. It is damaging for the | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
way the country is run. If you listen to some ministers, they are | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
excoriating about the civil servants. It is like something out | :45:19. | :45:29. | |
:45:29. | :45:33. | ||
of a TV show. They hate each other. We live in a democracy. | :45:33. | :45:38. | |
Why not make both ministers and mandarins accountable to the | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
people? Would that work, Steve? | :45:42. | :45:46. | |
I agree with that and the accountability of civil servants. | :45:46. | :45:56. | |
:45:56. | :45:59. | ||
His analysis and his remedy, I agree with that. He is right. I | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
disagree with his broader analysis that this is about to much | :46:03. | :46:07. | |
government, in the sense that getting these franchises right is | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
almost impossible because if you say have been for five years, it is | :46:15. | :46:24. | |
too short term. In 15 years, it is impossible to predict. You cannot | :46:24. | :46:34. | |
:46:34. | :46:45. | ||
assume the private sector is always Douglas cars will is and all that. | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
We decided to put him in the hot seat to ask him about his | :46:51. | :47:01. | |
:47:01. | :47:03. | ||
specialist subject. Douglas cars will, Member of | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
Parliament Clacton. It is over, the Government way of doing things is | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
coming to an end. Bloated Government as outgrown its capacity, | :47:11. | :47:16. | |
outgrown the rest of us to be able to pay for it. It has outgrown | :47:16. | :47:20. | |
Democratic accountability. It is hard be surprising voters are | :47:20. | :47:27. | |
disillusioned. We are in debt and Miss governed. Should we disband? | :47:27. | :47:32. | |
No, the digital revolution comes a long. The digital revolution | :47:32. | :47:37. | |
creates a world of what you might call hyper personalisation. Think | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
of Twitter, your personalised news feed. Or your eye pad. Soon we will | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
seek the same level in public services. Instead of a National | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
Curriculum, what if every child had a personalised one. What it you had | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
a personalised health care plan stalled on your records. | :47:57. | :48:02. | |
Politicians will have less control over us. That is a thought to shoot | :48:02. | :48:09. | |
us up. I will ask for a score of that performance. -- cheers us up. | :48:09. | :48:16. | |
Are you being dramatic towards the end of politics as we know it, | :48:16. | :48:25. | |
surely it is about reinventing and rejuvenating us? Look at the banks. | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
We are in a recession. But the Government has shown cheap credit. | :48:30. | :48:38. | |
I think we are at the end of the road, and the digital revolution | :48:38. | :48:42. | |
will create change. It does not matter what the politicians want, | :48:42. | :48:50. | |
it is over. He is a brilliant politician. He is a brilliant | :48:50. | :48:53. | |
politician who is anti-politics. Who will pay for the personalised | :48:53. | :48:59. | |
budgets? It means the Government remains accountable for the money. | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
20 years ago, it we were sitting here in this studio and I tried to | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
explain the concept of Google, you could type anything you want your | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
first question would have been, who will pay for it? If I said they | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
private company would create millions in revenue by creating it | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
free, you would have lacked. Health care is going to be provided for | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
free? We will always need a taxpayer funded system will stop | :49:28. | :49:32. | |
that mean central Government should be involved. You can have | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
collectors and without the state. You can allocate resources paid for | :49:36. | :49:40. | |
by the state without officials doing the allocation. It is | :49:40. | :49:44. | |
possible for people to have a personalised health or education | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
budget by the Government is providing the resources, but you | :49:48. | :49:52. | |
and your doctor, parents are deciding about where it is being | :49:52. | :49:59. | |
spent. Would you like that situation? I think Douglas is on to | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
something where people want more individual services and want | :50:03. | :50:07. | |
greater control over their lives. But they what security and safety | :50:07. | :50:14. | |
at a time of recession. And they get that now? The NHS provides a | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
safety net. You know you can turn up with your child at 3am and you | :50:18. | :50:23. | |
get treated. You don't have to worry about the right budget a | :50:23. | :50:28. | |
credit card on your system. Under my system, the state would pay. But | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
instead of standing in line and waiting what the state did you, you | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
can decide what is right for you. There are catchment areas that | :50:36. | :50:42. | |
decide the education you get. Why not allow people have the decision? | :50:42. | :50:46. | |
What if I waste the money, what if I choose to spend thousands of | :50:47. | :50:53. | |
pounds on cosmetic surgery. state is still paying for that? | :50:53. | :50:56. | |
People's self Commission's social care without people spending it on | :50:56. | :51:04. | |
cigarettes and drink. At 3am, 300 people could choose the same A&E | :51:04. | :51:10. | |
clinic and find they are queuing through the night. I do not see how | :51:10. | :51:18. | |
your theory solves this problem. It you know there is a good hospital | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
near you, we all go there and we wait for months to see the people. | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
I don't see how this magically removes all the issues, the | :51:26. | :51:33. | |
problems we have with state owned delivery. Why is it when you queue | :51:33. | :51:38. | |
up as some think the Government provides, you are having to queue. | :51:38. | :51:41. | |
If you are a parent looking for a GP open on a Saturday, it is hard | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
to find it. You can go to the supermarket 20 var hours a day and | :51:46. | :51:52. | |
watch a film late into the evening. -- 24 hours a day. We need the same | :51:52. | :51:57. | |
choice and freedom over public services that things we enjoyed in | :51:57. | :52:02. | |
our own lives. Do you want people to make those decisions all of the | :52:02. | :52:06. | |
times in our busy lives and busy jobs. Do the research, find the | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
best doctor, but a school and everything? A few weeks ago I | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
bought it technically, a sophisticated electronic device. We | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
would have taken me weeks to research it. But I managed to buy | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
my mobile phone in a few minutes because thousands of other | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
Londoners had collectively allowed me to make an informed choice. If I | :52:29. | :52:33. | |
was making that choice in isolation, but through branding and the price | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
mechanism, I could make the choice right away. Soon collected | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
intelligence will allow us to make a decision about our whole lives. | :52:42. | :52:48. | |
Looking at their faces, you have a bit of convincing to do. Nine out | :52:48. | :52:51. | |
of 10 for the Mastermind performance. It's Friday, so it | :52:51. | :52:55. | |
must be time for our weekly roundup of who's up and who's down. Here's | :52:55. | :53:01. | |
Giles with the political Week in 60 Seconds. | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
A good week for Ed Miliband in what they called a barnstorming leader's | :53:05. | :53:12. | |
speech. One nation. A vision of one nation. One nation. What was it | :53:12. | :53:22. | |
about again? According to Ed Balls, the Conservatives are no match to | :53:22. | :53:27. | |
the Labour bandwagon. Let me pay tribute to our leader, the next | :53:27. | :53:33. | |
Prime Minister of Great Britain, Ed Miliband. Let staff take the strain. | :53:33. | :53:39. | |
Ministers have placed the blame on civil servants for the bidding | :53:39. | :53:46. | |
fiasco on the West Coast Main Line. Round one to Mitt Romney, here and | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
expected the out John President Obama. And Andrew Mitchell won't be | :53:50. | :53:53. | |
attending the Conservative Party conference in Birmingham next week. | :53:53. | :53:58. | |
Considering he is a Birmingham MP, you would have thought he could | :53:58. | :54:05. | |
have made it. And we've been joined by the | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
psychotherapist, Lucy Beresford, author of a book called "happy | :54:08. | :54:16. | |
relationships", to talk about the psychology of party conferences. As | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
a doormat, what is your view about party conferences and what they are | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
set up to do? It's is about tribal loyalty and group stroking. That | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
sounds worrying! It is incredibly confidence boosting, it makes | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
people feel heard and understood. It is a huge triumph. But it brings | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
out the worst in us, that sense of them and us. We become bright | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
fighters and everything we say is right, and everything everybody | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
else says is wrong. It is an unsavoury, moral superiority about | :54:53. | :55:01. | |
it. Does it last? So if they go away, everyone goes back to their | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
normal lives and everything is forgotten? It lasts until the next | :55:05. | :55:11. | |
one comes along and then it happens again. It is a bit like a family | :55:11. | :55:15. | |
wedding, we know it is staged, it has to look immaculate. But in the | :55:15. | :55:21. | |
corner, there is someone plastered and probably having a fight. If you | :55:21. | :55:26. | |
are lucky! How we do put re Ed Miliband in his role, his | :55:26. | :55:32. | |
paternalistic role? You do get the dimension to political conferences, | :55:32. | :55:38. | |
which is an Infanta lies since the audience are looking at mummy and | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
Daddy on the stage. That is the power we had given them. I felt | :55:42. | :55:51. | |
David Miliband... Ed Miliband. huge Freudian slip! Sibling rivalry. | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
Something in his narrative was possibly the Cinderella figure or | :55:56. | :56:01. | |
the ugly duckling who then becomes a swan. The potential was there was | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
something quite magical to happen. Did he turn into a swan? He did | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
have a breakthrough moment were people thought they could look | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
again at him. Then he has to deliver if he is a One nation | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
politician or whether it was rhetoric. I know you arguing these | :56:20. | :56:23. | |
conferences as something of the past, they are so stage-managed. | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
Are they on their way out in the form they are in at the moment? | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
they go on for too long. Basically, all that matters is the leader's | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
speech, perhaps a one or two of the set-piece events on the stage. The | :56:40. | :56:45. | |
fringe meetings are very dull. You could watch them from anywhere. | :56:45. | :56:50. | |
They don't need these few days. Be on the fact that a busy, but few | :56:50. | :56:55. | |
party members who can still afford to go get a buzz out of it. That | :56:55. | :56:59. | |
point is worth making. Talking about morale-boosting, it doesn't | :56:59. | :57:04. | |
make people feel good? In makes them feel good, feeling part of the | :57:04. | :57:09. | |
family. You have lots of nice things happening and mutual | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
stroking and attachment, but underneath there is this a motion | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
simmering. We will get to see that in every single political week. | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
it a case of people looking up to the politicians at these | :57:20. | :57:27. | |
conferences? Only the party faithful look up to them. We are | :57:27. | :57:30. | |
also in vandalised because we are happy to give the power to the | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
politicians, otherwise we would stand of this ourselves. It is a | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
danger of the politicians talking to their own tribe, when now unique | :57:40. | :57:45. | |
to win people over away from you tried. Just like Mick Ronnie, you | :57:45. | :57:51. | |
have to draw them into your party. Will they go on? This year seemed | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
worse than ever. It seemed an old- fashioned way of doing politics in | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
this age of Twitter and blog and everything. We may not have many to | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
look forward to and analyse if it goes on. | :58:03. | :58:06. | |
There's just time before we go to find out the answer to our quiz. | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
Today is the 50th anniversary of the release of the first Bond film, | :58:10. | :58:16. | |
Dr No. So the question was: Which Cabinet minister has a mocked-up | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
Bond poster of themselves? Is it: David Cameron, William Hague, | :58:19. | :58:27. | |
Theresa May, or Eric Pickles? I think it is David Cameron because | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
I know he is a James Bond fan. Steve? It cannot be William Hague, | :58:33. | :58:42. | |
he would have read Hansard as a teenager. I like Theresa May. | :58:42. | :58:48. |