16/01/2013 Daily Politics


16/01/2013

Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn present live coverage of Prime Minister's Questions. The Guess the Year competition closes during the live broadcast of this programme.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks, welcome to the Daily Politics. Spare a thought for

:00:42.:00:46.

call me Dave, the poor PM is being shouted at for more sides about,

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you've guessed it, Europe. This morning the so-called Fresh Start

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group of Conservative MPs told Mr Cameron they wanted the complete

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repatriation of key powers from the EU and would not settle for

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anything else. Fighting talk. Ken Clarke is a bit worried. He is

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concerned the PM may accidentally open the door to a British exit.

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His medical innovation being stifled by the law? Maurice Saatchi

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will explain why he thinks so. Hold your horses for PMQs, when we

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will be examining the contents of the 12 o'clock Westminster Stakes -

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or should that be Shergar burgers?! If that has -- if that is not

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enough to whet your appetite, we have a bookie on hand to spice

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things up. For the first time I will be taking

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bets on the number of times Speaker Bercow interrupts PMQs.

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We are all waiting for Speaker Bercow! We speak of nothing else.

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That is coming up in the next 90 minutes. We are joined for the

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duration by Shadow Foreign Secretary Douglas Alexander and

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Health Minister Dan Poulter. If you have just joined us on BBC Two this

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morning, Scotland Yard have confirmed that two people died

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early after a helicopter crashed at rush-hour just across the river

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from our studio in Westminster in the Vauxhall area. It is a very

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misty morning in Central London. Police say it appeared the

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helicopter hit a crane on top of a new block of high-rise flats. It is

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not yet complete. That was at about 8am. As well as two fatalities,

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nine injured people have been taken to hospital, one is said to be in a

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critical condition. If there are any more developments we will keep

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you up-to-date. In a speech this evening, Health

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Secretary Jeremy Hunt will say he wants the NHS to be paperless by

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2018. The first step would be to give people online access to health

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records by 20th March 15. By April 2018, any crucial health

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information should be able to staff at the touch of a button. It is a

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lovely idea, but in terms of IT revolutions, haven't we heard this

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before and why would this be more successful? There was a very good

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idea to set up, if you like, a national database for NHS IT.

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Unfortunately that did not work well for a number of reasons, we

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did not involve front line professionals in designing the

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service -- it did not involve. Jeremy this morning is making sure

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the database will be driven at a local level so that different parts

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of local health care can talk together effectively, so someone

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being picked up in an ambulance, patient details will be available

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to the paramedics, saving the time of a lot of my medical colleagues

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and also it will mean that patients are treated in a more timely and

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effective manner, particularly in emergencies. Looking at the Labour

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record and NHS IT projects, it has not been amazing and does not

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inspire confidence. My first reaction would be, I would not take

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the risk? Of course we want the NHS to innovate, but we need to make

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difficult choices about priorities, especially given how tight budgets

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are. The Care Quality Commission said that there were 17 hospitals

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with unsafe staffing levels, so I am sure viewers would think that

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would be a priority. Isn't that more of an issue for patients,

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rather than trying to make it paperless? As a doctor, I know

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paperless records will make it better for patient care. I will

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have more time to spend with patients rather than chasing around

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the hospital corridors where the paper records are in different

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apartments or phoning up the GP, I will have them in front of me and

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it will save a lot of time and I can affect patients more

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effectively and quickly, especially in an emergency. On staffing, it

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has always been the case that some hospitals are managed very well,

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the vast majority are managed exceptionally well and have very

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high quality staff, and the right number. But the CQC flag up that

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there are problems and concerns in 17 hospitals. Those hospitals need

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to to be flagged up, the directors of those hospitals need to make

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sure that patient care is achieved. Surely Labour supports the idea of

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saving money in terms of what you might call back of his style

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operations? It could save �4.4 billion. -- back office style

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operations? This Government is spending billions on an unwanted,

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indeed, a reorganisation of the NHS from the top down that was

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explicitly denied before the election. If you want real savings,

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surely the priority is not spending billions on an unwanted

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organisation, it is ensuring safe levels of staffing. There are 7000

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less nurses today than in 20th May 10. We should consider how the NHS

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can innovate and be strengthened for the future, but the priority

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must be safe staffing in the NHS and making sure that patients are

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getting the care that they need. it much more widespread than you

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said? The CQC have five to problems of local hospitals in the past. The

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Labour government made it a requirement that you must use a

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Freedom of Information request to get information, we want to see

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more transparency in the NHS. At a local level, where we are seeing

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Chief Executives not prioritising frontline care, it is right we

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should expose those hospitals and pressure should be brought to bear.

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This IT project is about to delivering savings to the NHS. It

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is �4 billion of savings. A big challenge was set under the

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previous government, just to continue to deliver the same high

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quality of patient care, we need to make savings and put that into the

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front line. It will save �1.5 billion a year, these IT savings

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will save �4 billion and allow doctors to spend more time with

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patients. Let me ask you about something broadcast in the news

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this morning, traces of horsemeat found in value beefburgers. Tesco

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was named. What is your reaction? It was very concerning foreign

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number of reasons. It is also the fact that there is potentially pork

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found in beefburgers, and we know people for religious reasons may

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not wish to eat pork. That was another concern. We know as we

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understand at the moment there are no soap... No public safety

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concerns, but the Food Standards Agency are investigating and we

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must make sure that they investigate quickly. It is

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important that consumers can make an informed choice, that is what we

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all want to do, particularly for groups affected. Why did it take

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the Irish to discover this? Why didn't the British Food Standards

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Authority identified that this was a problem in the supply chain,

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ending up in stores like Tesco and ASDA in the United Kingdom? Serious

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questions must be asked of the Food Standards Authority.

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If you have been an underground bunkers and Christmas you may not

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know that the Prime Minister is about to make a key, key, key

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speech about our relationship with our European cousins across la

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Manche. Ahead of his speech on Friday you may not be surprised to

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learn that the Prime Minister has been lobbied by every Conservative

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Tom, Dick and Harry about what to say. The Deputy Prime Minister has

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stuck his oar in. Let's go to Captain JoCo, who can preview.

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Here is David Cameron's battle plan. Tomorrow evening the Prime Minister

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will drop quietly into Holland as Operation Common Market Garden gets

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under way. Then Addo 900 hours on Friday morning the action begins. -

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- then acts 0900 hours. David Cameron's trips include the Fresh

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Start group of MPs, who are in no mood to take prisoners, demanding a

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complete repatriation of social and employment law, an opt-out from all

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existing policing and criminal justice measures, an emergency

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brake on any new regulation of financial services and changes to

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the EU agricultural, fishing and regional policies. Ken Clarke has

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described David Cameron's raid on the EU as a gamble. Can the Prime

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Minister link-up with friendly forces and deliver a tactical

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withdrawal from Europe in these areas, or is the plan overly

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ambitious? Let's go to the Central lobby in

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Parliament, where -- where the chair of the conservative Fresh

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Start group Andrea Leadsom joins us. Good morning. Let me ask you this,

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you're not calling for Britain to withdraw from the EU? Correct, we

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think Britain should be in the EU, but we want a better settlement for

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Britain. You have outlined a number of areas where you want power was

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repatriated. Have you spoken to any of your political counterparts in

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the other 26 member states about how they may react to these

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demands? Yes, we've had a number of conversations over many months.

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What not many people in this country ever see reported is people

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like the Dutch Prime Minister is already talking about doing a

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balance of competencies review in the Netherlands to look at areas

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where perhaps the EU is doing stuff it should not, and where it should

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perhaps be repatriated to member states. I don't think we are alone

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by any means. Are you saying the Dutch want the complete

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repatriation of all social and employment law, a complete opt out

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of existing policing and criminal justice measures? Are you claiming

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that is the Dutch position? No. But the Fresh Start manifesto is a

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culmination of 18 months of research into 11 EU policy headings.

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We are trying to set out what would be a significant renegotiation from

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Britain's point of view, but what could also get some support from

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other EU member states who also have problems with the particular

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areas highlighted. We have limited our calls to five treaty

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negotiations, but another raft of reforms that could be achieved

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within existing treaties. This is a huge piece of research we are

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giving to the Prime Minister and other thinkers in this area which

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has a contribution to the debate about what sort of renegotiation we

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want. And I am sure he is very grateful! You have admitted it

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would require a number of treaty changes, some quite substantial.

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That requires the unanimous support of the other 26 countries, so it

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would only take one to say no, we are not going down this road, and

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you are stymied? Yes, but the status quo is not an option. The

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eurozone has to move down the path of ever greater fiscal union

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because of the financial crisis. They have set themselves off on

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that journey. Britain as a non-Euro member, along with other non-Euro

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members, has to articulate what sort of relationship we wanted

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going forward with the EU. This is a contribution to that. What are

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you prepared to trade at to get you demand? What will you give? Britain

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is a major EU contributor, one of the big three contributors to the

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Budget. We have lead in a number of areas, particularly in moves

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towards... What will you give in negotiations? The eurozone needs to

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move be -- moves towards fiscal union. As and when there is another

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treaty, which Barroso says is soon and other politicians say they will

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avoid, if another treaty negotiation happens, the eurozone

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will be looking to Britain to support their need, which we do

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support, for greater fiscal union. Bad at the same time Britain should

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look for what will work better as a new settlement for British people.

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Supposing British Government goes to Europe and tries to meet your

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agenda and repatriate most of what you have in this document and comes

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back and says, actually, they are not interested, they don't want to

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give us anything, it is the status quo or nothing, what would your

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attitude be? I I don't accept the premise. Why would they say that?

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Indulge me, what would you do? not really inclined to indulge you.

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You are suggesting they would say get lost, we are happy for Britain

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to leave the EU. They would not discuss anything. Would you be up

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for leaving if you can't get this agenda? I don't believe it would

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come to that. But if it did? think it is extremely unhelpful to

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talk about leaving. Precisely what Nick Clegg said this week, the Big

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Chill. We are in a position now where the Conservative Party is

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very united behind the need for reform, we don't want to leave the

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European Union, it would be a disaster for the British economy so

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we don't want to go there. Discussing it when there is no need,

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I don't think that is helpful. will leave it there.

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Let's come back into the studio. Dan Poulter, David Cameron once

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warned Conservative MPs to stop banging on about Europe, these are

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his exact words. How is that going? At the moment we have a situation

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where we have a party that is broadly of a mind that we believe

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that our interests are best served being in Europe. There are lots of

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benefits we have. We need to be part of the trading bloc in Europe.

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Do you support all these things that she wants to repatriate?

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not looked into it in great detail. Social and employment law, existing

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police and criminal justice measures, any new legislation

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affecting financial services. are legitimate concerns. On

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employment law I have seen in the NHS the previous government signed

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up to the European Working Time Directive, which has badly affected

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the continuity of care. So there are things, and the Prime Minister

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has made clear, that we want to renegotiate with Europe. The Prime

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Minister will set that out very clearly. He has been telling us for

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weeks, six weeks, it feels like six months. Do you support the Fresh

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I fully support the fact we need to look at what powers are in Europe

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and which powers... That's your Government's policy. I am asking if

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you support the powers that Fresh Start have said they want

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repatriated? There are some things they have outlined and I have given

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you an example of the European work time directive where there are

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concerns that we have expressed as a Government - we have expressed. I

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haven't seen the full list and in detail but there are clearly issues

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that have been raised by that group. It's been in the papers for days,

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what have you been doing? I do read the papers, but until it was

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outlined properly, I have have to analyse it, as you will later on.

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have read it. Look into detail at what they've said and we will take

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a judgment. But the point is that there are things within that group

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have outlined which the Prime Minister has highlighted, this

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Government has highlighted. We fully agree... I understand that.

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How often do your constituents raise the common fisheries policy?

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I have had letters about the fisheries policy. How often? I am

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not a coastal constituency so I haven't had in the past very many

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representations about that. Would you tell us one other country of

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the remaining 26 members of the European Union that supports the

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British approach? We just heard from Andrea that in other countries

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in the European Union, the Dutch, for example, agree that there are

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powers that need to be repatriated. They don't agree with the full list

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of Fresh Start. Mr Rutt, I think his name is, isn't even going, we

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understand, to listen to Mr Cameron, even though he will be in the

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Netherlands. It's clear there are a number of countries in Europe that

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have concerns that too many powers have been centralised, that there's

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been too much centralisation of powers too fast and too quickly and

:17:35.:17:38.

that's not in the interest, not just of Britain but other nation

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states. Name me one other than the Dutch? We said Holland. Another?

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Other countries that have raised concerns. Almost every country...

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Name one! Every country in Europe has politicians who have raised

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concerns absolutely about the fact that there are - that Europe has

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had too many centralised powers and that we need to - all countries

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realise that there is a legitimate debate about having more powers in

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the British national centre back... You just can't tell me one. Douglas

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Alexander, if you don't want a referendum on Europe, you should

:18:15.:18:19.

vote Labour? You should vote Labour for a number of reasons. On that

:18:19.:18:22.

issue? Well, we will set out our manifesto in due course but we are

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clear and we stand along with senior business leaders actually on

:18:26.:18:29.

this point with Michael Heseltine, and Nick Clegg and others in saying

:18:29.:18:34.

to commit now to an in-out referendum is not just bad for

:18:34.:18:38.

British investment, creating economic uncertainty but bad for

:18:38.:18:41.

influence within Europe. Change is coming to Europe, on that there is

:18:41.:18:45.

common ground between Andrea and myself. Will Labour rule out a

:18:45.:18:48.

referendum at the next election? Well, we do not believe now is the

:18:48.:18:52.

time to commit to an in-out referendum. Are you saying there is

:18:52.:18:57.

any circumstances in the future? He is announcing as we anticipate,

:18:57.:19:00.

depending on whether the speech is delivered on Friday, that he will

:19:00.:19:06.

commit to an in-out referendum we expect around 2018. Will you commit

:19:06.:19:09.

to a referendum at the next election? We are saying what Ed

:19:09.:19:12.

Miliband said on Sunday, we do not believe now is the time to commit

:19:12.:19:16.

to an in-out referendum in 2018 or beyond. You rule out a referendum

:19:16.:19:21.

for the foreseeable future? We are clear that in the present

:19:21.:19:24.

circumstances we do in the believe that a referendum is justified.

:19:24.:19:28.

What about another kind of referendum? Is Labour in favour of

:19:29.:19:32.

repatriating any powers. In terms of other referendums, it's the law

:19:32.:19:35.

of the the land and reaccept that, if there is any significant

:19:35.:19:38.

transfer of sovereignty from Britain to Brussels under the

:19:38.:19:43.

referendum act there will be a referendum. You won't repeal that

:19:43.:19:46.

legislation. We will see how the legislation operates. We have given

:19:46.:19:50.

no commitment to repeal that legislation. If there is a new

:19:50.:19:55.

treaty which involves a substantial movement of power from London to

:19:55.:19:57.

Brussels, you will have a referendum? Well, the Government of

:19:57.:20:02.

the day would have a referendum, yes. Not if you repeal the law.

:20:02.:20:09.

have not given a commitment. That's different from saying you won't

:20:09.:20:11.

repeal the law. We will look at how that legislation operates in

:20:11.:20:15.

practice, that's what we said when the legislation passed. If you are

:20:15.:20:22.

asking me to commit to repeal the legislation... The only way you can

:20:22.:20:25.

see the legislation in operation is by having a referendum. You can see

:20:25.:20:28.

how it affects Britain's capacity to answer some of the questions you

:20:28.:20:31.

were asking Andrea. Are we in a position where we can have a

:20:31.:20:34.

genuine negotiation with other European partners about how Europe

:20:34.:20:38.

changes? My real concern is that notwithstanding the reasonableness

:20:38.:20:43.

of how Andrea presents the case, there is still still an unbridgable

:20:43.:20:46.

gap between what the Conservative Party will insist upon and what

:20:46.:20:51.

other European leaders can concede. What powers would Labour

:20:51.:20:55.

repatriate? In relation to state aids, for example, in relation to

:20:55.:21:00.

regional policies there are grounds to look at whether those powers

:21:00.:21:03.

better held within individual states. In the last Government we

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made the case in relation to regional policy there was a case

:21:05.:21:09.

for powers coming back to the United Kingdom and in that sense we

:21:09.:21:12.

will take a pragmatic view. We are not saying no to any powers coming

:21:12.:21:17.

back from Brussels. We are saying if you set this up... It's not a

:21:17.:21:21.

big issue, is it? If you set it up as an agenda for what we can take

:21:21.:21:24.

back from Brussels you are left with a question that you posed,

:21:24.:21:28.

which is what if other nations say no? If you have a broad agenda of

:21:28.:21:32.

reform rather than a narrow agenda of repatriation you are more likely

:21:32.:21:37.

to get an outcome that works for Britain and is accepted. Is no

:21:37.:21:40.

repatriation and no referendum. have given you an example, regional

:21:40.:21:46.

policy and state aids. That would be part of a general agreement.

:21:46.:21:48.

any reckoning, even David Cameron would accept this there are broader

:21:49.:21:52.

changes coming to Europe. repatriation initiative and no

:21:52.:21:55.

referendum. I have given you two examples of where we said that we

:21:55.:21:59.

would be willing and indeed support powers coming back. It's not true

:21:59.:22:05.

to say no repatriation. I am still not clear on that, but that's

:22:05.:22:09.

probably just me. Only a few more days to go until the great speech!

:22:09.:22:13.

The pain will be over, temporarily. Now, Prime Ministers questions is

:22:13.:22:20.

often described as a lottery for Mr Cameron and Miliband, each man's

:22:20.:22:22.

political future balancing on the turn of a question. Apparently

:22:22.:22:27.

that's not enough of a gamble for some. A well-known book-maker is

:22:27.:22:33.

placing bets on today's questions questions. Being the BBC, we take

:22:33.:22:37.

our values seriously, but we are not going to tell you which bookie,

:22:37.:22:42.

but I can tell you that we have someone called Paddy in the studio.

:22:42.:22:45.

Other book-makers are available. What are you doing? Taking bets the

:22:45.:22:55.

number of times The Speaker interruts. -- interpruts. We have -

:22:55.:22:57.

- interrupts questions. We have come up with the idea that we

:22:58.:23:01.

reckon it will be between two or three interruptions that will

:23:01.:23:06.

happen today in PMQs. It might make watching questions more interesting.

:23:06.:23:11.

Right. A huge talking point most weeks in this studio, John Bercow

:23:11.:23:14.

interventions. How are you going to define an intervention? Obviously,

:23:14.:23:19.

it's not easy, he has to stop proceedings to be considered an

:23:19.:23:22.

intervention. So a significant stop and if he is watching this he might

:23:22.:23:28.

want to have a bet himself and he can affect the outcome of that.

:23:28.:23:36.

will be watching closely. Not wanting - - do you think this is

:23:36.:23:39.

treuflising parliament? It makes it more engaging for people who want

:23:39.:23:43.

to watch and it's what people are talking about and speculating. Some

:23:43.:23:47.

people think he likes the sound of his own voice too much. This is a

:23:48.:23:52.

chance for people to put their money where their mouth is. What do

:23:52.:23:58.

you think of the idea? I am afraid I can say I have never placed a bet

:23:58.:24:02.

in my life. Could this be the first time? I wouldn't know thousand fill

:24:02.:24:06.

in a betting slip if I walked into a bookies. I am sure we could find

:24:06.:24:12.

someone to help you. What about you, Dan Dan Poulter? I am not a betting

:24:12.:24:16.

man either. I am a great man of John Bercow but I would be going

:24:16.:24:21.

for three or more. Exactly how many times do you think? Two sounds

:24:21.:24:28.

fairly modest. How many times do you go for? Three. That's quite a

:24:28.:24:34.

lot. He always does one because he likes the sound of his own voice.

:24:34.:24:39.

Sour sin sale -- you are so cynical, Andrew. What are you going for? I

:24:39.:24:48.

think he only does one. One, three and more than three. He can't

:24:48.:24:52.

interrupt more than three times! We will be speaking to you later.

:24:52.:24:57.

It's hard to know what to trust these days. HMV gift vouchers that

:24:57.:25:01.

won't buy you a Lembit Opik DVD. Beefburgers that may have more than

:25:01.:25:07.

a passing acquaintance with the winner of the 2.30 at Doncaster.

:25:07.:25:10.

It's good to know there's always something you can that rely on. Yes

:25:10.:25:17.

you have guessed it, the Daily Politics mug, crafted lovingly by

:25:17.:25:23.

little BBC elves and fired in the kiln of free-flowing political

:25:23.:25:30.

discourse. It's free from ekwaeupb -- equine DNA, I am told. It can be

:25:30.:25:35.

euros if you can answer just -- it can be yours if you can answer one

:25:35.:25:42.

question. You would be a horse's derriere to miss. It. -- to miss it.

:25:42.:25:52.
:25:52.:26:05.

Let's see if you can remember when # I don't feel like dancing

:26:05.:26:11.

# My heart could take a chance #. Storming to victory in Labour's

:26:11.:26:14.

heartlands, there's hardly any seat in the country that will be safe

:26:14.:26:24.
:26:24.:26:26.

and Gordon Brown must be quaking in # Does that make me crazy

:26:26.:26:36.
:26:36.:27:04.

To be in with a chance of winning a Daily Politics mug you can send

:27:04.:27:14.
:27:14.:27:15.

your answer to our special e-mail address. You can see the full terms

:27:15.:27:20.

and conditions on our website. It's coming up to midday. There's Big

:27:20.:27:25.

Ben behind me. It's a cold winter's day here but quite bright. Prime

:27:25.:27:31.

Ministers questions are on the way and Nick Robinson is here. We have

:27:31.:27:34.

been talking about Europe. Think we are going to hear more about it in

:27:34.:27:37.

and in a way it's dominated this week and it's worth pausing to

:27:37.:27:42.

think how cure curious this is. We are debating, and I think they will

:27:42.:27:45.

debate in a few minutes, a speech that's yet to be delivered about a

:27:45.:27:48.

decision that will be taken for an election that hasn't yet been

:27:48.:27:51.

called, about a treaty change that may not happen, because other

:27:51.:27:55.

European countries may not agree to it, about a negotiation that hasn't

:27:55.:27:58.

been started that Britain might not succeed in and what might then

:27:58.:28:03.

happen in that referendum. It is a pretty curious position we have

:28:03.:28:06.

ourselves into. It seems all parties have a problem on this. The

:28:06.:28:10.

Tories have the biggest problem, of course, because of the danger of

:28:10.:28:13.

disappointing one faction or another. That's why David Cameron

:28:13.:28:17.

for so long said he wouldn't talk about this subject at all. William

:28:17.:28:21.

Hague refers to the issue of Europe as a ticking timebomb underneath

:28:21.:28:25.

the Conservative Party. But forgive me, I was watching Douglas

:28:25.:28:28.

Alexander, too. The Labour Party don't want to tell you whether they

:28:28.:28:31.

will have a referendum or not, whether they're ruling it out or in.

:28:31.:28:36.

They want to essentially watch the Government's difficultying and say

:28:36.:28:40.

-- difficulties, and say, on you go, why don't you make a mess of it and

:28:40.:28:43.

we will tell you what we will do in a couple of years. Given there is

:28:43.:28:48.

not a majority in the Commons for a big repatriation strategy because

:28:48.:28:53.

Lib and the Lib Dems won't vote against it why does Mr Cameron not

:28:53.:28:56.

just wait until the election manifesto? Why does he have to lay

:28:56.:29:00.

out a stall now? Why doesn't he say I am with you, chaps and lasses, I

:29:01.:29:06.

am on your side on the Tory Party in this but we haven't got a

:29:06.:29:13.

majority. Let's get it right in the manifesto? One word answer - trust.

:29:13.:29:16.

Three-word, lack of trust. His party doesn't trust him because the

:29:16.:29:22.

fact he posed as a eurosceptic and - remember that row about who the

:29:22.:29:25.

Tories sat with in Europe in parliament, because he said let's

:29:25.:29:28.

have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty and said actually I didn't

:29:28.:29:32.

mean now have a referendum on the treaty. The truth is his own party

:29:32.:29:36.

don't trust him on it. So there would be a strategy that any Prime

:29:36.:29:38.

Minister would want to follow, which is we are not sure how things

:29:38.:29:41.

are going to change, we are sure they are, we will get back to you

:29:41.:29:44.

in a while. Is that all right? The reason he can't do that, the reason

:29:44.:29:49.

he has to give a speech is because at his back are backbenchers saying,

:29:49.:29:52.

we need to know and if you don't give us something we want, we will

:29:52.:29:56.

put our own motion down in the House of Commons and will force it.

:29:56.:30:00.

His His activists are saying, do you know how many of my friends

:30:00.:30:04.

have joined the UK Independence Party? He has twin pressures and

:30:04.:30:08.

his attempt will be to say OK, here is a rationale picture of what the

:30:08.:30:13.

next five years might look like but if he listened to John Major or

:30:13.:30:17.

Margaret Thatcher he might remind himself that it's quite hard to do

:30:17.:30:21.

that, to draw a line in the sand on this issue. All my sources tell me

:30:21.:30:25.

he is not going to give them enough red meat, that he will end up not

:30:25.:30:28.

satisfying anybody. He won't satisfy the remaining pro-Europeans

:30:28.:30:33.

in the Tory Party, because he has raised the issue, they don't want

:30:33.:30:37.

it raised at all and he won't go down the repatriation road that

:30:37.:30:44.

others... I think that group was effectively set up to put the

:30:44.:30:47.

Cameron and Hague strategy... think that's the moderate strategy?

:30:47.:30:51.

They're saying is you create space for us. So the things that I think

:30:51.:30:55.

David Cameron thinks could be and I emphasise could be achievable, is

:30:55.:30:59.

for Britain to say, we will not be part of judicial co-operation, we

:30:59.:31:04.

will get back things like the Working Time Directive, and we will

:31:04.:31:07.

have some protections which even a a Labour Government would fight for

:31:07.:31:10.

if they were there for the City of London and the financial services.

:31:10.:31:15.

Now, issue, question, - would that ever be enough? Answer for some of

:31:15.:31:21.

course, because there is a great spectrum between people who want

:31:21.:31:24.

some protections, and those who have had enough of it and want to

:31:24.:31:27.

get out. The big change since I first started reporting on this, it

:31:27.:31:31.

was the first story I really did as a young producer at the BBC 25

:31:31.:31:36.

years ago, is the split in the Tory Party, it's no longer between pro-

:31:36.:31:41.

Europeans and eurosceptics, it's between eurosceptics and those who

:31:41.:31:46.

want out and those figures who regard themselves as public pro-

:31:46.:31:55.

Europeans, the older generation. he undervails -- veils the stall

:31:55.:32:01.

and it goes quiet for two years. We have had our say. Let's hear what

:32:01.:32:11.

Can I pay tribute to suburb Richard Walker. But it is clear to see from

:32:11.:32:14.

the tributes paid that he was an outstanding soldier and hugely

:32:14.:32:17.

respected, and our deepest sympathies are with his family and

:32:17.:32:21.

friends at this difficult time. I would also like to mention a

:32:21.:32:24.

helicopter crash in Central London this morning. The whole house wish

:32:24.:32:29.

to join me in thanking the emergency services for their rapid

:32:29.:32:32.

and professional response to this situation. This morning I had

:32:32.:32:35.

meetings with ministerial colleagues and others, and in

:32:35.:32:38.

addition to my duties in the House I will have further such meetings

:32:38.:32:43.

today. For too long many women and

:32:43.:32:48.

especially hard-working stay-at- home mums have been penalised by

:32:48.:32:53.

the country's pension system for having interruptions to their

:32:53.:32:58.

National Insurance contributions. After 13 years when the previous

:32:58.:33:04.

government did nothing to redress first, does the Prime Minister

:33:04.:33:09.

think that the announcement this week of a single tear pension will

:33:09.:33:15.

find a league deal with this grave injustice? -- will finally deal

:33:15.:33:21.

with? I think the single deer pension is excellent. I think it

:33:21.:33:26.

will have all-party support, because it holds out the prospects

:33:26.:33:32.

in 2017 of having a basic state pension of over �140 rather than

:33:33.:33:37.

�107, taking millions of people out of the means test, giving them

:33:37.:33:42.

dignity in retirement and particularly, as he said, helping

:33:42.:33:44.

low-paid people, self employed people and, above all, women who

:33:44.:33:49.

have not been able to have a full state pension in the past, to have

:33:49.:33:55.

one. It is an excellent reform. Mr Speaker, can I join the Prime

:33:55.:34:00.

Minister in paying tribute to Sapper Richard Reginald Walker,

:34:00.:34:07.

attached to 21 Engineer Regiment. He showed the utmost courage and

:34:07.:34:11.

bravery. I also joined him in passing on condolences to the

:34:11.:34:16.

families of those who lost their lives in a helicopter crash in

:34:16.:34:23.

London, and paying tribute to the emergency services. When the Prime

:34:23.:34:25.

Minister first became leader of the Conservatives, he said their

:34:25.:34:31.

biggest problem was spending too much time banging on about Europe.

:34:31.:34:37.

Busy but those days are over? LAUGHTER. -- is he glad those days

:34:37.:34:46.

are over? LAUGHTER. I think even the leader of the

:34:46.:34:50.

Labour Party should accept a massive change taking place in

:34:50.:34:55.

Europe. A change driven by the changes in the eurozone. Frankly,

:34:55.:34:59.

this country faces a choice and political parties in this country

:34:59.:35:05.

face a choice, do we look at these changes and see what we can do to

:35:05.:35:08.

maximise Britain's national interest, and do we consult the

:35:08.:35:12.

public about that, or do we sit back, do nothing and tell the

:35:12.:35:17.

public to go hang? I know where I am this party stand, in the

:35:17.:35:27.
:35:27.:35:30.

national interest of this country. I should congratulate him on having

:35:30.:35:36.

decided on the date of his speech. Well done. Another example of the

:35:36.:35:40.

Rolls Royce operation of Number Ten Downing Street. Now, Mr Speaker, in

:35:40.:35:45.

advance of his speech, what is his answer to this question, which

:35:45.:35:49.

investors need to know? Will Britain be in the European Union in

:35:49.:35:54.

five years' time? On important decisions, can I firstly

:35:54.:35:58.

congratulate him on his important decision this week, to keep the

:35:58.:36:05.

Shadow Chancellor in place until 2015. Rarely do we see so much

:36:05.:36:09.

cross-party support. My view is that Britain is better off in the

:36:09.:36:15.

European Union, but I think it is right for us to use... It is right

:36:15.:36:20.

for us to see the changes taking place in Europe and make sure we

:36:20.:36:25.

are arguing for the changes Britain needs, so therefore we had a better

:36:25.:36:29.

relationship between Britain and Europe, a better organised European

:36:29.:36:33.

Union and the full-hearted consent of the British people. Those are

:36:33.:36:41.

our choices, what are his? Maybe we are making progress. In October

:36:41.:36:44.

2011, I am sure you will remember, he and I walked shoulder to

:36:44.:36:51.

shoulder through the lobby against the 81 members of his party who

:36:51.:36:55.

voted for and in/out referendum. You might call it two parties

:36:55.:37:02.

working together in the national interest, Mr Speaker! The Foreign

:37:02.:37:06.

Secretary said at the time, I think he was on his way to Australia to

:37:06.:37:09.

get as far away as possible from the Prime Minister's speech, he

:37:09.:37:14.

said, the reason for our boat was that an in/out referendum would

:37:14.:37:18.

create additional economic uncertainty at a difficult economic

:37:18.:37:24.

time. Was he right? He was entirely right. It is interesting that the

:37:24.:37:28.

leader of the opposition only wants to talk about process, because he

:37:28.:37:35.

dare not debate the substance. I don't think it would be right for

:37:35.:37:39.

Britain to have an in/out referendum today, because I think

:37:39.:37:44.

we would be given the British people a false choice. -- would be

:37:44.:37:49.

giving the British people. Millions, myself included, want Britain to

:37:50.:37:53.

stay within the European Union but believe there are chances to

:37:53.:37:57.

negotiate a better deal. Countries are looking at forthcoming treaty

:37:58.:38:02.

change and thinking, what can I do to maximise my national interest?

:38:02.:38:06.

That is what the Germans and the Spanish will do, that is what the

:38:06.:38:09.

British should do. Let's get to the substance and give up the feeble

:38:09.:38:19.
:38:19.:38:20.

First of all, Mr Speaker, I thought the jokes were pretty good. But I

:38:20.:38:29.

am talking about the substance. His position appears to be this, and

:38:29.:38:35.

in/out referendum now would be destabilising, but promising one-

:38:35.:38:41.

in-five years' time is just fine for the country. -- but promising

:38:41.:38:47.

one in five years' time. That is five years of businesses seeing a

:38:47.:38:51.

closed for business sign hanging around Britain. What did Lord

:38:51.:39:01.
:39:01.:39:01.

Heseltine say? He said, to commit... Dear Lord Heseltine, one mainstream

:39:01.:39:05.

conservative voice, to commit to a referendum about a negotiation that

:39:05.:39:10.

has not begun, and a timescale you can't predict, on an outcome that

:39:10.:39:16.

is unknown, seems to me like an unnecessary gamble. Isn't he right?

:39:16.:39:20.

It is no secret that there are disagreements between myself and

:39:20.:39:24.

Michael Heseltine when it comes to Europe. I have a huge amount of

:39:24.:39:27.

time for Michael, he was one of the leading voices for Britain joining

:39:27.:39:31.

the single currency, and I am delighted we have been joined, and

:39:31.:39:37.

we should not, and under my prime ministership we never will. -- I am

:39:37.:39:42.

delighted we have not joined. What business wants in Europe is what I

:39:42.:39:46.

want, to be part of Europe but a more flexible and competitive

:39:46.:39:50.

Europe, a Europe that can take on the challenge of the global race

:39:50.:39:55.

and the rise of nations in the south and east. I put it to him

:39:55.:39:58.

again, when there is change taking place in Europe, when the single

:39:58.:40:03.

currency is driving change, isn't it in the British national interest

:40:03.:40:06.

to argue for changes that will make the European Union more competitive

:40:06.:40:10.

and flexible, that will strengthen and sort out the British

:40:11.:40:14.

relationship between Britain and the European Union, then to ask the

:40:14.:40:18.

British people for their consent? That is our approach. Apart from

:40:18.:40:23.

coming out with what he considers very amusing jokes, what is his

:40:23.:40:27.

approach? The biggest change we need in Europe is to move from

:40:27.:40:32.

austerity to growth and jobs. And he has absolutely nothing to say

:40:32.:40:39.

about that. And here is the reality, the reason he is changing his mind

:40:39.:40:43.

is nothing to do with the national interest, it is because he has lost

:40:43.:40:48.

control of his party. And the problem is this, he thinks his

:40:48.:40:53.

problems on Europe will end on Friday. They are just beginning.

:40:53.:40:56.

They are just beginning. Can he confirm that he has now given the

:40:56.:41:03.

green light to Conservative cabinet ministers to campaign on different

:41:03.:41:06.

positions on whether they are for or against being in the European

:41:06.:41:12.

Union? He tries to make the point that Europe should somehow be

:41:12.:41:17.

moving off the policy of deficit reduction, he is completely

:41:17.:41:21.

isolated in Europe. There is not one single government, not even

:41:21.:41:25.

socialists in Europe, who believe you should be pushing up borrowing

:41:25.:41:30.

and borrowing more. That is the simple truth. What is in Britain's

:41:30.:41:34.

interest is to seek a fresh settlement in Europe that is more

:41:34.:41:37.

flexible and competitive, that is in our interest and that is what we

:41:38.:41:46.

will seek. I must ask him, doesn't he understands -- understand that

:41:46.:41:49.

what has happened over the last decade, where a Labour government

:41:49.:41:54.

signed treaty after treaty, gave away power after power, saw more

:41:54.:41:57.

centralisation after more centralisation had never consulted

:41:57.:42:01.

the British people is what has made this problem so big in the first

:42:01.:42:10.

place? The Prime Minister did not answer the question about whether

:42:10.:42:13.

he gave the green light to his Conservative colleagues in Cabinet,

:42:13.:42:17.

for some of them to concern being in the European Union and some of

:42:17.:42:22.

them getting out of the European Union. -- for some of them to

:42:22.:42:27.

campaign about being in the European Union. When there are 1

:42:27.:42:30.

million young people out of work and businesses are going to the

:42:30.:42:35.

wall, he spends six months creating a speech to create five years of

:42:35.:42:39.

uncertainty for Britain. When it comes to Europe, it is the same old

:42:39.:42:45.

Tories, a divided party and a weak Prime Minister.

:42:45.:42:49.

He has absolutely nothing to say about the important issue of

:42:49.:42:54.

Britain's relationship with Europe. What is his view? Order, order. The

:42:54.:42:58.

response from the Prime Minister must be heard, and it will be.

:42:58.:43:02.

There will be a very simple choice at the next election. If you want

:43:02.:43:06.

to stay out of the single currency, you vote Conservative, if you want

:43:06.:43:10.

to join it, you boots Labour. If you want to take power back from

:43:10.:43:15.

Britain, you vote Conservative, if you want to give power to Brussels,

:43:15.:43:21.

you vote Labour. That is the truth. He wants absolutely no change in

:43:21.:43:24.

the relationship between Britain and Europe and he does not believe

:43:24.:43:33.

the British people should be given a choice. Mark Causey!

:43:33.:43:38.

The Prime Minister has very rightly focus the Government on growth and

:43:38.:43:41.

the development of new housing plays a key part in providing that

:43:41.:43:45.

growth, as well as providing much- needed new homes. In my

:43:45.:43:49.

constituency we have two developments of the combined size

:43:49.:43:54.

of 8000 new homes. Will the Prime Minister joined meet in praising

:43:54.:43:59.

the Council's attitude towards new development? He might come to rugby

:43:59.:44:05.

to see how we are going about it. would be delighted to visit him in

:44:05.:44:09.

Rugby. He is right in saying we need to build more houses, because

:44:09.:44:13.

right now, unless you have help from your parents, the average age

:44:14.:44:17.

of a first-time buyer is in their 30s. We need to build more homes to

:44:17.:44:21.

make sure we can allow people to achieve the dream that so many

:44:21.:44:27.

people have done, getting on the housing ladder. David Lammy.

:44:27.:44:30.

2010 the Prime Minister and his party said it was, I quote, lying

:44:30.:44:34.

and scaremongering to suggest that they would reduce family tax

:44:34.:44:39.

credits for families earning less than 31,000. We found out last week

:44:39.:44:45.

that the threshold will in fact be �26,000. Will he now apologised to

:44:45.:44:51.

families that he has failed to protect.

:44:51.:44:54.

This Government has had to make difficult decisions on public

:44:54.:44:58.

spending and welfare. But throughout that we have protected

:44:58.:45:02.

those on the lowest incomes and Major, particularly with the child

:45:02.:45:06.

tax credit, that we have increased it. That is what we have done with

:45:06.:45:11.

child tax credits, it is a record we should support.

:45:11.:45:15.

The residents of Thanet both enjoyed burgers but also love

:45:15.:45:22.

horses. This morning they will be shocked to hear that they might

:45:22.:45:26.

have been eating horsemeat. I wonder whether the Prime Minister

:45:26.:45:29.

can reassure us that he and the Government is doing enough to

:45:29.:45:34.

reassure the diners of Thanet? honourable lady raises a very

:45:35.:45:42.

important issue. It is an extremely serious issue. People in our

:45:42.:45:45.

country would have been very concerned to read this morning that

:45:45.:45:48.

when they thought they were buying beefburgers they were buying

:45:48.:45:53.

something that had horsemeat in it, that is extremely disturbing news.

:45:53.:45:56.

I've asked the Food Standards Agency to conduct an urgent

:45:56.:46:00.

investigation. They have made clear there is no risk to public safety

:46:00.:46:04.

because there is no food safety was, but this is a completely

:46:04.:46:08.

unacceptable state of affairs. They will be meeting retailers and

:46:08.:46:12.

processes this afternoon, working with them to investigate the supply

:46:12.:46:15.

chain, but it is worth making the point that ultimately retailers

:46:15.:46:23.

must be responsible for what they Could I thank the Prime Minister

:46:23.:46:26.

and the leader of the opposition for their condolences and could I

:46:26.:46:30.

add my condolences and sympathy to those people who died, the families

:46:30.:46:34.

of those who have died in my constituency this morning in the

:46:34.:46:40.

helicopter crash. Would he share with me the absolute amazing work

:46:40.:46:43.

that was done by particularly the fire services this morning, the

:46:43.:46:49.

firefighters who came from Clapham station were there in a short time.

:46:49.:46:52.

Would he also recognise at some stage, not for today, but some

:46:52.:46:56.

stage we do need to look at whether now with a changing skyline of

:46:56.:47:01.

London we need to look much more closely at where and how and why

:47:01.:47:04.

helicopters fly throughout our central city?

:47:04.:47:08.

I think the honourable lady is absolutely right again to praise

:47:08.:47:11.

the emergency services. Everyone could see from those terrifying

:47:11.:47:14.

pictures on our screens this morning just how quickly the

:47:14.:47:17.

emergency services responded and how brave and professional they

:47:17.:47:20.

were in the way in which they responded. I think the point she

:47:21.:47:24.

makes about the rules for helicopter flights and other

:47:24.:47:28.

flights over our capital city, I am sure they will be looked at as part

:47:28.:47:32.

of the investigations that will take place. That's not an issue for

:47:33.:47:36.

today but tpheft plea something -- inevitably it's something to be

:47:36.:47:42.

looked at. Last week I organised an entrepreneurship seminar for women

:47:42.:47:45.

wanting to set up their own businesses and one of the questions

:47:45.:47:47.

they asked was about the cost of child care. Given that this

:47:47.:47:53.

Government has extended 15 hours of care to two-year-olds for the most

:47:53.:47:55.

disadvantaged, quarter of a million two-year-olds and extended it to

:47:56.:47:59.

three and four-year-olds, does it not show this Government is

:47:59.:48:03.

supporting families and women who want to work? I think my honourable

:48:03.:48:07.

friend makes an important point. We have seen over the last couple of

:48:07.:48:11.

years one of the fastest rates of new business creation in our

:48:11.:48:15.

history. But we do need to encourage particularly female

:48:15.:48:18.

entrepreneurship, if we had the same rate as other countries we

:48:18.:48:21.

could help wipe out unemployment altogether. We do help families as

:48:21.:48:25.

she said, in terms of two, three and four-year-olds with childcare.

:48:25.:48:28.

We also help through the tax credit system, but as the House will know,

:48:28.:48:31.

we are looking at how we can help even further for hard-working

:48:31.:48:36.

people that want to go out to work, that need help for childcare, to

:48:36.:48:38.

make sure they can do the right thing for their children and

:48:38.:48:45.

families. Thank you, Mr Speaker. When will the Prime Minister visit

:48:45.:48:55.
:48:55.:48:55.

a food bank? He is welcome to come to Rother hpl? -- -- Rotherham.

:48:55.:48:58.

should welcome the work they do. It was the last Government I think

:48:58.:49:03.

that quitely actually recognised that through giving food banks an

:49:03.:49:06.

award. As honourable members have asked this question, and shout out

:49:06.:49:10.

a lot about food banks, let me remind them of one simple fact -

:49:10.:49:14.

the use of food banks went up ten- fold under the last Labour

:49:14.:49:20.

Government. So before they try to use this as some political weapon,

:49:20.:49:27.

they should recognise this started under their own Government.

:49:27.:49:31.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The national star college in my constituency

:49:31.:49:34.

provides well renowned care for some of our disabled youngsters

:49:34.:49:38.

with the most profound and complex learning difficulties to enable

:49:38.:49:43.

them to lead an independent life. Sadly, it and a few similar

:49:43.:49:47.

colleges' future is being placed in jeopardy by a decision not to

:49:47.:49:50.

ringfence the funding. As I am sure my right honourable friend will

:49:50.:49:53.

wish to solve this problem, may I invite him to come to the college

:49:53.:49:57.

to see this wonderful care for himself.

:49:57.:50:01.

As my constituency neighbour, I am happy to discuss this issue with

:50:01.:50:05.

him. He praises the fantastic work carried out by the college. It does

:50:05.:50:09.

do an excellent job in improving the life chances of young people. I

:50:09.:50:12.

know the college has concerns over the new funding system. I know that

:50:12.:50:15.

he has contacted the Minister responsible. We are changing the

:50:15.:50:18.

way that funding is allocated but this does not necessarily mean that

:50:19.:50:22.

the funding will be cut. I am happy to discuss this with him but the

:50:22.:50:26.

new funding system does allow local authorities to have more say in how

:50:26.:50:29.

the funding is distributed but I am sure they'll want to recognise

:50:29.:50:33.

excellent work including from this college.

:50:33.:50:38.

Is the Prime Minister aware of the trauma facing thousands of families,

:50:38.:50:41.

particularly in London, who live in private represented accommodation

:50:42.:50:45.

where the housing benefit payments do not meet the rapidly increasing

:50:45.:50:50.

rents and they are forced out of their homes, out of their boroughs

:50:50.:50:53.

and the community suffers as a result and children's education

:50:53.:50:57.

suffers? Does he not think it's time to regulate private sector

:50:57.:51:01.

rents and bring in a fair rents policy in this country so that

:51:01.:51:05.

families are not forced out of the communities where they have lived

:51:05.:51:10.

for a very long time? I would say is he does have to

:51:10.:51:14.

recognise that we inherited a situation in terms of housing

:51:14.:51:18.

benefit in London that was completely out of control. Some

:51:18.:51:24.

families were getting as much as �104,000 for one family for one

:51:24.:51:29.

year. Even today we are still spending something like �6 billion

:51:29.:51:33.

on housing benefit in London. I think we have to recognise that

:51:34.:51:37.

higher levels of housing benefit and higher rents were chasing each

:51:37.:51:43.

other up in a spiral. I don't support the idea of mass rent

:51:43.:51:48.

controls because what we would see a massive decline in the private

:51:48.:51:50.

rented sector which is what happened last time we had such

:51:50.:51:54.

controls. We need proper regulation of housing benefit and making sure

:51:54.:51:58.

we have a competitive system for private sector renting and also

:51:59.:52:06.

making sure we build more flats and houses. The deficit has to be

:52:06.:52:10.

brought down, but if tax credits and benefits are capped now for the

:52:10.:52:14.

next three years at 1%, people on low incomes will be vulnerable to

:52:14.:52:19.

increases in food and energy prices. If prices go up by more than

:52:19.:52:22.

expected what contingency plans does the Government have for

:52:22.:52:25.

benefits and tax credits? The most important thing is to make sure

:52:25.:52:28.

people are getting a good deal in terms of energy prices. That's why

:52:28.:52:32.

we are going to be ledge lating to make -- legislating to make

:52:32.:52:35.

companies put people on the lowest available tariffs, that's something

:52:35.:52:40.

on this side of the House we are doing that will help all families.

:52:40.:52:44.

As a diabetic, can I welcome the fact that last year the Prime

:52:44.:52:50.

Minister lit up Number 10 for the first time on World Dine Day. One -

:52:50.:52:56.

- Diabetes Day. One third of all school leavers, are either obese or

:52:56.:53:02.

overweight, yet they consume cans of coke and Pepsi that contain up

:53:02.:53:05.

to eight teaspoons of sugar. What steps is the Prime Minister

:53:05.:53:08.

proposing to take to engage manufacturers in a war against

:53:08.:53:14.

sugar? If we don't act now, the next generation will be overwhelmed

:53:14.:53:20.

by a diabetes epidemic. I think the gentleman is absolutely right to

:53:20.:53:23.

raise this issue. It's one of the biggest health challenges that we

:53:23.:53:26.

face in our country, a public health challenge that we face. He

:53:26.:53:30.

is right to highlight the problem of accessive eating of sugar.

:53:30.:53:33.

That's why we challenged business through our responsibility deal to

:53:33.:53:37.

try and reduce levels of sugar and that has had some effect. What we

:53:37.:53:42.

have in place now is a diabetes action plan which is about how we

:53:42.:53:47.

improve early diagnosis, how we better spwe care and -- integrate

:53:47.:53:50.

care and provide better support. It's one of of those challenges not

:53:50.:53:53.

just for the health service, it's a challenge for local authorities,

:53:53.:53:57.

schools and for parents, as well. As someone trying to bring up three

:53:57.:54:02.

children without excessive amounts of coca-cola, I know exactly how

:54:03.:54:11.

big the challenge is. 20 years ago this week Claire Tiltman, a 16-

:54:11.:54:14.

year-old girls school pupil was stabbed to death in my constituency.

:54:14.:54:19.

Nobody has ever been convicted of this crime. Both of her parents

:54:19.:54:22.

subs subsequently died never knowing who had actually taken

:54:22.:54:25.

their only child from them. Mr Speaker, could the Prime Minister

:54:25.:54:29.

assure the House that this government will continue to provide

:54:29.:54:34.

full assistance to Kent Police to help bring justice for one of

:54:34.:54:41.

Britain's most brutal and unsolved murders? He is absolutely right to

:54:42.:54:44.

raise this case. It is a particularly tragic case because as

:54:44.:54:50.

he says, the parents of this girl have both died. What Wye say is of

:54:50.:54:52.

course we will do everything we can but above all, it's for other

:54:53.:54:55.

people, anyone who knows anything about this case to talk to the Kent

:54:55.:54:58.

Police because in the end it is their responsibility to try and

:54:58.:55:02.

solve this case. In terms of taking action to deal with appalling knife

:55:02.:55:06.

crimes like this one, as he knows the Government has taken a set of

:55:06.:55:12.

important actions. 39 people suspected of serious child sex

:55:12.:55:16.

offences who fled the country have been brought back quickly to

:55:17.:55:21.

Britain under the European Arrest Warrant to face justice. Sadly,

:55:21.:55:26.

many of these backbenchers want to scrap the European Arrest Warrant

:55:26.:55:31.

making it easier for paedophiles to escape justice. Will he today

:55:31.:55:36.

categorically rule that out? As the honourable gentleman knows, we have

:55:37.:55:40.

the opportunity to work out which of the home affairs parts of the

:55:40.:55:44.

European Union we want to opt out of and which ones we want to opt

:55:44.:55:47.

back into. That's being rightly discussed in the Government. It's

:55:47.:55:49.

being discussed in this House. I am sure they'll listen carefully to

:55:49.:55:59.

his arguments. Great progress is being made in improving the rights

:55:59.:56:04.

of park oepl owners, many of whom are are vulnerable on low incomes.

:56:04.:56:08.

Currently they're not eligible for the green deal. Will he ask his

:56:08.:56:11.

civil servants to investigate this mat tore make sure that assistance

:56:11.:56:16.

with energy efficiency is available to everybody who really needs it?

:56:16.:56:20.

I will look carefully at what my honourable friend says. This

:56:20.:56:24.

Government has taken some steps forward in terms of the rights of

:56:24.:56:28.

park home owners. I have some of these in my own constituency and I

:56:28.:56:32.

know how important it is we get the balance of law right. Specifically

:56:32.:56:35.

her point on the green deal, I will look at that because the green deal

:56:35.:56:39.

is a very important measure to try and help people with their energy

:56:39.:56:41.

efficiency and keep their bills down. We want that obviously to be

:56:41.:56:48.

available to as many people as possible. Yesterday Sir Bruce Keel

:56:48.:56:54.

the medical director of the NHS, told the Public Accounts Committee

:56:54.:56:59.

GPs were imposing unjustified restrictions on cataract operations.

:56:59.:57:02.

It seems the Prime Minister and his reorganisation is taking the NHS

:57:02.:57:07.

back to the 1980s when it was - when the NHS was the sick man of

:57:07.:57:10.

Europe. Will he take this opportunity to apologise to elderly

:57:10.:57:13.

people who are waiting unnecessarily for their cataract

:57:13.:57:18.

operations? First of all, can I make the point that compared with

:57:18.:57:24.

2010-11 last year there were 400,000 extra operations in our NHS.

:57:24.:57:31.

If you look across our NHS, there are 5,000 more doctors and 5,000

:57:31.:57:37.

fewer administrators. We have the level of mixed sex wards right down.

:57:37.:57:41.

The level of infections - the point I am making, I know the the party

:57:41.:57:44.

opposite don't want to hear, the NHS is improving under this

:57:44.:57:46.

Government because we are putting money in and they take the money

:57:46.:57:54.

out. Many of us were inspired by the Prime Minister's speech on

:57:54.:57:59.

political reform delivered in kaoepbs kaoepbs kaoepbs -- Milton

:57:59.:58:04.

Keynes when we were in opposition. To make that happen, we were

:58:04.:58:07.

promised a system of open primary selection which has already had

:58:07.:58:12.

such a refreshing effect in the constituencies of Totnes. When does

:58:12.:58:15.

the Prime Minister expect open primaries to be in place more

:58:15.:58:21.

widely as promised in the coalition agreement? I do support using open

:58:21.:58:24.

primaries. On this side of the House - sorry in this party we had

:58:24.:58:28.

a number of open primaries. I hope that all parties can look at this

:58:28.:58:33.

issue and debate and see how we can encourage maximum participation,

:58:33.:58:37.

including in the selection of candidates. Let's talk about Europe

:58:37.:58:42.

and the national interest. Millions of British women would be hit by

:58:42.:58:47.

the post in today's Conservative Fresh Start report to opt out of

:58:47.:58:52.

the EU law on equal pay. Will the Prime Minister rule out this opt-

:58:52.:58:58.

out today? What this Government has done is we explained at the

:58:58.:59:02.

beginning of Prime Ministers questions, is massively helped

:59:02.:59:05.

women through the single tier pension. I will look carefully at

:59:05.:59:13.

the proposal he mentioned and I will write to him. I know my right

:59:13.:59:17.

honourable friend is aware of the extreme flooding suffered in the

:59:17.:59:21.

West Country in November and December of last year, impacting

:59:21.:59:25.

many homes and businesses and also sweeping away the rail link between

:59:25.:59:28.

the West Country and London, leaving us cut off for several days.

:59:29.:59:32.

Would he please ensure our Government will take every step

:59:32.:59:35.

necessary to impoef the resilience -- improve the resilience of this

:59:35.:59:42.

sraoeut afl link to -- vital hreurpbg so we -- link to we never

:59:42.:59:52.
:59:52.:59:54.

get cut off again? I went to see myself how badly one town had been

:59:54.:59:58.

-- flooded. He is going to be visiting the area soon to look at

:59:58.:00:02.

this. We are working with Network Rail to improve the resilience of

:00:02.:00:05.

the overall network and we will do everything to make sure these

:00:05.:00:10.

important services are maintained even when they're challenged by

:00:10.:00:14.

floods like last year. Does the Prime Minister accept that a

:00:14.:00:19.

statement on Europe designed to be populist runs the risk of

:00:19.:00:24.

polarising this House, undermining key UK UK relations with America,

:00:24.:00:29.

confusing and alienating our friends in Europe and starting a

:00:29.:00:34.

process that sleep-walks the UK out of Europe? I think the most

:00:34.:00:37.

dangerous thing for this country would be to bury our head in the

:00:37.:00:41.

sand and pretend there isn't a debate about Britain's future in

:00:41.:00:44.

Europe. The most dangerous thing for this country would be to see

:00:44.:00:48.

the changes that are taking place in Europe because of the single

:00:48.:00:51.

currency and stand back and say, we are going to do nothing about it.

:00:51.:00:54.

What Britain should be doing is getting in there, fighting for the

:00:54.:00:57.

changes that we want, so then we can ask for the consent of the

:00:58.:01:05.

British people to settle this issue once and for all. Can the Prime

:01:05.:01:07.

Minister tell the House what the Government is doing to keep

:01:07.:01:14.

pensioners warm in this cold weather and will he join me in

:01:14.:01:19.

congratulating the Suffolk Foundation for the great success of

:01:19.:01:23.

their surviving winter campaign? What this Government has done is

:01:23.:01:28.

first of all give the biggest increase in the basic state pension

:01:28.:01:31.

of �5.30 a week last year. We have kept the winter fuel payments, we

:01:31.:01:35.

kept the cold weather payments at the higher level and we are

:01:35.:01:38.

replacing the Warm Front Scheme with the energy company obligation

:01:38.:01:42.

and while the Warm Front Scheme helps something like 80,000 houses

:01:42.:01:47.

a year, the eco could help up to 230,000 houses a year. So that is

:01:47.:01:50.

what we are doing. That's how we are helping old people and it's a

:01:50.:01:55.

record we should be proud of. Prime Minister should know that the

:01:55.:02:01.

ONS have recently released figures which show there were 24,000 extra

:02:01.:02:06.

cold weather deaths over the winter of 2011-12. The majority of those

:02:06.:02:10.

who perished were over the age of 75. Mr Speaker, can I ask the Prime

:02:10.:02:13.

Minister if he thinks his Government should do more to help

:02:13.:02:18.

the elderly and vulnerable and less to help millionaires with tax cuts?

:02:18.:02:21.

As I just said, we are doing more to help the elderly and the

:02:21.:02:26.

vulnerable. A record increase in the basic state pension. Bigger

:02:26.:02:30.

than what the party opposite would have done with their rules. Keeping

:02:30.:02:34.

the cold weather payments at the higher level that the last party

:02:34.:02:38.

only - last Government introduced before the election. Keeping our

:02:38.:02:42.

promise on winter fuel payments, taking all of those steps and

:02:42.:02:45.

making sure again something never done by the party opposite, that

:02:46.:02:48.

energy companies will have to put people on the lowest tariffs.

:02:48.:02:55.

That's a record we can be proud of. Mr Speaker, a business in my

:02:55.:03:00.

constituency is enduring a hideous regulatory farce, thanks to the

:03:00.:03:04.

Health and Safety Executive and the European Union. Will my right

:03:04.:03:08.

honourable friend remind the CBI that the British economy is very

:03:08.:03:11.

reliant and small and medium businesses, businesses far less

:03:11.:03:15.

able to cope with bad regulation, particularly when it's badly

:03:15.:03:20.

administered in the UK? He is absolutely right. Businesses large

:03:20.:03:24.

and small are complaining about the burden of regulation, not just the

:03:24.:03:28.

pwurtd of regulation -- burden of regulation from Europe but more

:03:28.:03:31.

generally and that's why we should be fighting in Europe for a more

:03:31.:03:34.

flexible, more competitive Europe and a Europe where we see

:03:34.:03:37.

regulations come off, rather than always go on. The sraouf of the

:03:37.:03:41.

party -- view of the party opposite is sit back and do nothing and

:03:41.:03:50.

never listen to the British people The big news is that the speaker

:03:50.:03:55.

interrupted only once. Who said he would interrupt only once? Are a

:03:55.:04:01.

forgotten! That would be me. How much do I get? Nothing.

:04:01.:04:07.

In other news, a Europe dominated the frontbench exchanges, just as

:04:08.:04:12.

they dominated the first part of our programme. PMQs now follows the

:04:12.:04:15.

so carefully that the leader of the opposition even began with the same

:04:15.:04:18.

question I began the programme with. He is obviously watching the show

:04:18.:04:24.

and taking notes as he heads into the chamber. We saw a debate about

:04:24.:04:28.

Europe that will take place over the next three years. Just get used

:04:28.:04:34.

to it. An interesting thing that was not mentioned, there was no

:04:34.:04:39.

question about Mali, a major intervention by one of our European

:04:39.:04:43.

allies in which the British are providing logistical support. Al-

:04:43.:04:47.

Qaeda will now use northern Mali as a new base to launch terrorist

:04:47.:04:51.

attacks on Western Europe and the United States, it is said, and yet

:04:51.:04:55.

no one in the House of Commons, the mother of parliaments, I asked a

:04:55.:04:59.

question about it. That may be a sign of increasing parochialism in

:04:59.:05:04.

British politics. 99% of our viewers commented on

:05:04.:05:08.

Europe and the debate between the two leaders. John in Leeds said

:05:08.:05:12.

that history is to date repeating itself, a Conservative PM digging a

:05:12.:05:17.

hole for himself over Europe. David Cameron even made a non-existent

:05:17.:05:24.

Labour policy on Europe look viable. Diane in Truro, David Cameron has

:05:24.:05:28.

dug himself into a massive hole and is committing political suicide as

:05:28.:05:33.

a result. The issue of Europe will be an irrelevance in a general

:05:33.:05:37.

election, but party unity and competence is always crucial.

:05:37.:05:42.

Peter in the Wirral, an incredibly weak performance from Cameron but

:05:42.:05:46.

Europe is an open goal for Miliband. One viewer says that the electorate

:05:46.:05:50.

cannot forget the way in which Labour handed over power was to the

:05:50.:05:55.

European Union, I shed our thinking of Gordon Brown is signing the back

:05:55.:06:03.

door and going -- going in the back door and signing the Lisbon Treaty.

:06:03.:06:07.

Chris in Berkshire says Ed Miliband's attempt to embarrass the

:06:07.:06:11.

Prime Minister by suggesting that Tory cabinet members would be given

:06:11.:06:16.

the right to campaign in a referendum campaign from -- for a

:06:16.:06:20.

withdrawal from the EU, does he not recall that is what Harold Wilson

:06:20.:06:30.
:06:30.:06:32.

did in 1975? Was he... Yes, he was Prime Minister in 1975, I was just

:06:32.:06:36.

checking. They call it the hokey-cokey

:06:36.:06:41.

referendum. In, out, shake it all about!

:06:41.:06:47.

I know exactly where we are. Let me ask you this, Nick, is it the view

:06:47.:06:57.

of Mr Cameron and those around 10 that Europe is a vote winner? -- Mr

:06:57.:07:00.

Cameron and those around him. It is not an issue which resonates every

:07:00.:07:05.

day, and this country is more Euro- sceptic than it has ever been. So

:07:05.:07:09.

do they think for him to be, quote, banging on about it in a Euro-

:07:09.:07:14.

sceptic way, is that a helper in the run-up to the election or not?

:07:14.:07:18.

What do they think? Coup I think they did this beach not because

:07:18.:07:22.

they thought it was a bold winner, but because the pressure was coming

:07:22.:07:28.

from within and outside his party, from UKIP and others. But you could

:07:28.:07:33.

see the strategy. In his last words, and the Prime Minister always gets

:07:33.:07:37.

the last word, he said if you want to go into the single currency you

:07:37.:07:42.

vote Labour. They looked amazed, because Ed Balls was the person who

:07:42.:07:46.

told Gordon Brown under no circumstances should Britain go...

:07:46.:07:51.

No, he just told Gordon Brown that Tony Blair was in favour! Tony --

:07:51.:07:56.

Gordon Brown said, that was not happening! But clearly the tactic

:07:56.:08:00.

was to say that Labour were in favour of more powers. If in favour

:08:00.:08:05.

of getting rid of the pound. If you want to keep the pound you have to

:08:05.:08:10.

vote for the Conservatives. They are trying to turn it around into a

:08:10.:08:13.

vote-winner. Sometimes it is worth looking at faces in the House of

:08:13.:08:19.

Commons. Did the Tories look like they were having a good time?

:08:19.:08:22.

Whereas the Labour backbenchers looked like they were. I think Ed

:08:22.:08:26.

Miliband can scarcely believe his luck. The reminder that he summed

:08:26.:08:32.

up of a divided Conservative Party, people just hear a noise in the

:08:32.:08:35.

Conservatives, an argument about something which does not appear to

:08:35.:08:40.

be the priority of the day. That is so valuable foreign opposition

:08:40.:08:44.

party. It does not mean that Labour will not face difficult questions

:08:44.:08:52.

that they are not answering... did this morning. Perish the

:08:52.:08:56.

thought! That has never happened before, when Douglas did not answer

:08:56.:09:00.

the question! I suspect he does not feel any pressure to answer the

:09:00.:09:04.

question at the moment. He will do one day, before the election, but

:09:04.:09:10.

not now. It is clear that Mr Maher but -- Mr Miliband knew what he was

:09:10.:09:18.

doing... Because he asked your question! We will send the invoice.

:09:18.:09:22.

And his and your backbenchers seemed to like it. There must be

:09:22.:09:27.

concern that Labour gets its positioning rights in a country

:09:27.:09:33.

where all the polls show there is very little appetite for Europe.

:09:33.:09:37.

have to recognise the legitimate concerns expressed by the British

:09:37.:09:41.

public. Europe needs to change. But the central point, as Mix suggested,

:09:41.:09:48.

the promise is being driven by this position not by strength but by a

:09:48.:09:52.

weakness. I expect you'll get some good headlines out of the speech.

:09:52.:09:55.

The suggestion you up -- will be that he will push around other

:09:55.:09:59.

European leaders. But he is being pushed around by his own

:09:59.:10:05.

backbenchers, which might be good for Labour but not for the country.

:10:05.:10:10.

As Nick outlined earlier, the Prime Minister has always maintained a

:10:10.:10:14.

pragmatic Euro-scepticism and a pragmatic year-old involvement, we

:10:14.:10:17.

must be involved as trade in Europe is important to the country, we

:10:17.:10:23.

must be part of Europe, but there is widespread agreement among so

:10:23.:10:26.

Conservative Party that where we are now is not in a good position,

:10:26.:10:33.

it is not in the British national interest. The European Working Time

:10:33.:10:36.

Directive and the powers highlighted this morning by Andrea.

:10:36.:10:40.

It is right that we look to bring back powers that are in the British

:10:40.:10:44.

interest back to Britain. That is the broad consensus of the

:10:44.:10:49.

Conservatives. I thought the most significant moment for the history

:10:49.:10:54.

books today was when he said, Ed Miliband, will you give your

:10:54.:10:58.

Cabinet permission to campaign on either side during the referendum?

:10:58.:11:02.

Because going back to 1975 when Harold Wilson did that, you have

:11:02.:11:07.

the extraordinary spectacle of two cabinet members in the Panorama

:11:07.:11:11.

studio, Roy Jenkins on one side, Tony Benn on the other, at each

:11:11.:11:19.

other's throats on the issue of Europe. That was 1975. By 1981, Roy

:11:19.:11:23.

Jenkins was leading the SDP, an alternative political party, and I

:11:23.:11:27.

think the row about Europe and the Labour Party in the mid-70s

:11:27.:11:31.

generated the anger that produced the Social Democratic Party, which

:11:31.:11:34.

generated the split on the centre- left which meant the Tories were in

:11:34.:11:42.

power for 18 years. It was written last week that this European

:11:42.:11:48.

Business has the ability to split the Tories like corn rows. Forgive

:11:48.:11:53.

me if I'm wrong, the referendum happens in this context, as Mr

:11:53.:11:56.

Cameron would wish it, that he gets a deal from Europe in some form

:11:56.:12:00.

that you think amounts to a repatriation of certain powers.

:12:00.:12:04.

Probably not his wish-list or anything like it, but something to

:12:04.:12:08.

come back. Then the choice he plans to put before us if re-elected is

:12:08.:12:15.

that we both for this may be a bit more semi-detached relationship

:12:15.:12:21.

with Europe, and if we both know, we are voting to leave? We won't

:12:21.:12:25.

know until he delivers the speech. We know he wants to renegotiate and

:12:26.:12:31.

thinks he can do it. What is the vote on? One possibility is to say

:12:31.:12:34.

to the British public, do you support to the new negotiated

:12:34.:12:39.

position of the Government on Europe? If they vote yes, we know

:12:39.:12:45.

what that means. Voting no could mean a boat to try a bit harder,

:12:45.:12:48.

have another negotiation in the sense that the Irish referendum did

:12:48.:12:52.

not mean they got out of Europe, the Dutch referendum, the French

:12:52.:12:56.

referendum, these were all no votes over different treaties in recent

:12:56.:13:01.

years. That is the ambiguity which we will see if it is resolved on

:13:01.:13:11.
:13:11.:13:13.

Friday. And does it mean, please try again, all, off we go? -- or

:13:13.:13:18.

off we go? Is it true, as I have read in the papers, that Downing

:13:18.:13:24.

Street and those around Mr Cameron ARC all his mates from Eton who are

:13:24.:13:33.

around him? -- are all his mates? don't recognise that at all. All of

:13:33.:13:39.

their cabinets and Mr Tenham regularly engaged. I mean what we

:13:39.:13:44.

used to call the kitchen cabinet? It is not something I recognise.

:13:44.:13:50.

How many did not go to Eton? I am sure you will tell me. But it

:13:50.:13:55.

depends on who you describe as the inner circle. I always found him

:13:55.:14:00.

very receptive to me when I was a backbench MP, from all members of

:14:00.:14:06.

the party he is receptive. He has shown very good engagement with our

:14:06.:14:13.

backbenchers and with ministers. I think that is the case. You up for

:14:13.:14:23.

promotion, I can see it! -- you are up for promotion. Tell us about it.

:14:23.:14:27.

His Chief of Staff, Ed Llewellyn, was at Eton with him. Craig Oliver

:14:27.:14:32.

used to work at the BBC, he is not an Old Etonian, and Andrew Cooper.

:14:32.:14:36.

There are lots of exceptions. But what angers a lot of Conservatives,

:14:36.:14:40.

let alone people outside, is they feel they can't break into a circle

:14:41.:14:45.

which is as much about what's anything-goes end of the Times

:14:45.:14:51.

called it not at the Notting Hill set, but the research department

:14:51.:14:59.

set. A group of people began in the -- began in politics working in the

:14:59.:15:03.

research department under John Major, George Osborne and David

:15:03.:15:07.

Cameron included. The reason they became so-called Tory modernisers

:15:07.:15:11.

and said our generation should lead, they look at what happened to John

:15:11.:15:15.

Major and said, never again to our party. The reason today is

:15:15.:15:19.

significant is they will go back to their office and say, does that

:15:19.:15:26.

feel just a bit familiar? Maastricht rebels, who were seen as

:15:26.:15:30.

the extreme Euro-sceptics, are now the mainstream of the

:15:30.:15:36.

Conservatives? And the mainstream of the country, in some respect.

:15:36.:15:41.

The gamble the Prime Minister is taking is that Europe is bound to

:15:41.:15:44.

change after the Euro crisis, that it is, therefore, perfectly

:15:44.:15:49.

possible to negotiate a new deal and that no government - Labour,

:15:49.:15:53.

Tory or Coalition - could drive that a new deal through Parliament

:15:53.:15:58.

like the Maastricht treaty was, without consulting the public. The

:15:58.:16:02.

gamble is let's get brownie points now for stating what he regards, we

:16:02.:16:05.

know he regards this, as the completely obvious - there will be

:16:05.:16:10.

a new deal, there will have to be a referendum. Does he get brownie

:16:10.:16:15.

points or do the parties say, it is not enough, or it is too far, and

:16:15.:16:20.

drag him around? There is a rather more significant, powerful and some

:16:20.:16:30.

will say significance arrangement of chums, it is the Paisley

:16:30.:16:37.

arrangement. We have always seen it as a conspiracy! I was not brought

:16:37.:16:47.
:16:47.:16:56.

up in Paisley, just for the No one wants to join! Touche! 15-

:16:56.:17:01.

all! Writing a letter of complaint as we speak!

:17:01.:17:04.

I really must not lower my standards!

:17:04.:17:09.

He is best known as an advertising guru, but now Lord Saatchi says he

:17:09.:17:13.

knows how to cure cancer and it's all by changing the law. 18 months

:17:13.:17:16.

ago, Lord Saatchi lost his wife to a rare form of the disease. He has

:17:16.:17:24.

put what he learnt into his Medical InOvation Bill -- Innovation Bill

:17:24.:17:27.

which aims to prevent doctors from being held liable for clinical

:17:28.:17:30.

negligence if they innovate during cancer treatment. Here he explains

:17:30.:17:40.
:17:40.:17:50.

Cancer is relentless, remorseless, merciless. Its treatment is

:17:50.:17:56.

medieval, degrading and ineffective. There is no more distressing thing

:17:56.:18:03.

in the whole world than a beautiful woman being reduced to a sparrow.

:18:03.:18:08.

That's why I have introduced the Medical Innovation Bill into the

:18:08.:18:13.

House of Lords. Will this Bill cure cancer? No, but it will encourage

:18:13.:18:21.

the man or woman who will. The treatment regime for such cancers

:18:21.:18:29.

are 40 years old. For the woman, the good news is hair loss. The

:18:29.:18:35.

less good news is that the drugs mimic the disease. Nausea,

:18:35.:18:39.

diarrhoea, vomiting, fatigue. That's before we get to the bad

:18:39.:18:46.

news. That's that the drugs do such damage to the immune system,

:18:46.:18:50.

allowing fatal infections to enter the body, that the woman is as

:18:50.:18:56.

likely to die from the infections as from the cancer. Current law is

:18:56.:19:04.

a barrier to progress in curing cancer. Under present law, any

:19:04.:19:12.

tkaoef -- divation by a doctor will result in a verdict of guilt of

:19:12.:19:15.

medical negligence. Fear of litigation is sa barrier to

:19:15.:19:21.

progress in curing cancer. We don't want human beings being treated

:19:21.:19:26.

like mice, but on the other hand, we do want bold scientific

:19:26.:19:36.
:19:36.:19:38.

discovery. This Bill achieves both. One man or woman with an idea will

:19:38.:19:45.

cure cancer. That person has to be encouraged, not frightened. Only a

:19:45.:19:51.

change in the law can solve that problem because the law is the

:19:51.:19:55.

problem. And Lord Saatchi joins us now.

:19:55.:19:59.

Welcome to the programme. Before I come to you, Dan Poulter, do you

:19:59.:20:02.

tkpre with Maurice Saatchi that current law is a barrier to

:20:02.:20:07.

progress in terms of cancer care? think we are sympathetic to the

:20:07.:20:11.

points that Lord Saatchi has raised. Do you think it's a barrier, the

:20:11.:20:16.

law is a barrier to progress can cancer care? One thing that was a

:20:16.:20:21.

problem in the past was getting quick access to drugs and we

:20:21.:20:24.

introduced as a Government the cancer drugs fund which has meant

:20:24.:20:28.

25,000 more people are getting access to drugs but there are

:20:28.:20:31.

concerns certainly that some medical professionals have that

:20:31.:20:34.

sometimes when they bring forward or have new ideas about what can

:20:34.:20:38.

improve care for patients, that sometimes they're not able to bring

:20:38.:20:40.

that forward as quickly as they would like to do and this is

:20:40.:20:45.

something we do need to have a look at. We are sympathetic to the ideas

:20:45.:20:49.

and would like to engage further. I think Jeremy Hunt has already

:20:49.:20:53.

spoken to Lord Saatchi and I know I will be keen to continue

:20:53.:20:57.

discussions because we have to do everything we can to improve

:20:57.:21:01.

patient care. Certainly as far as cancer treatment. Let me ask you

:21:01.:21:06.

then, do you think it really could lead to a cure in the way that you

:21:06.:21:10.

outlined, that by releasing doctors or giving them the freedom to be

:21:10.:21:15.

more innovative, that it could then lead to a proper cure for cancer?

:21:15.:21:20.

Well, I thank Dan very much for what he has just said. It sounds

:21:20.:21:26.

surprising, doesn't it, that... sounds quite dramatic. Yes, how can

:21:26.:21:30.

an skwrablt of parliament -- skwrablt of parliament cure cancer?

:21:30.:21:33.

The answer is the analysis which has taken place over the course of

:21:33.:21:38.

the last year with a great deal of consultation with medical

:21:38.:21:42.

practitioners and academics and lots of people in Dan's department,

:21:42.:21:47.

if the analysis is correct there is an ever present fear in the mind of

:21:47.:21:53.

a doctor who is treating a patient, that only the well worn path of the

:21:53.:22:01.

status quo is safe and that to deviate from the status I do, from

:22:01.:22:06.

-- status quo, from that path is a risk to the patient, never mind the

:22:06.:22:13.

patient, a risk to the doctors' lifelyhood and -- livelihood.

:22:13.:22:17.

you advocating experimentation? You don't want patients to be treated

:22:17.:22:22.

like mice, isn't that the risk? What this Bill does, and there is a

:22:22.:22:27.

debate in the House of Lords today on the general subject of medical

:22:27.:22:30.

innovation and the Bill will take its course and probably there will

:22:30.:22:33.

be a second reading when the particular clauses can be debated

:22:33.:22:38.

in detail. But those of us who have been involved in the preparation of

:22:38.:22:44.

this Bill believe that by defining responsible innovation in law for

:22:44.:22:51.

the first time that you will do more to discourage quackery and

:22:51.:22:54.

reckless experimentation which puts patients' lives at risk than the

:22:54.:22:58.

present law. Let's put that to Dan Poulter, who is a doctor, a

:22:58.:23:01.

hospital doctor, of course, still practising. I tried to retire you

:23:01.:23:04.

last time you were on the programme! I am going this

:23:04.:23:09.

afternoon. Do you agree that you could actually minimise risk by

:23:09.:23:14.

defining what being innovative is in law? That still sounds like not

:23:14.:23:19.

a huge guarantee to being being experimented on? It's right that we

:23:19.:23:25.

have safeguards in place so people can't - you won't have ad hoc

:23:26.:23:28.

experimentation with medical drugs and with procedures. We do know in

:23:28.:23:35.

some areas in medicine advances happen very quickly. But at the

:23:35.:23:40.

same time Lord Saatchi is right, in other areas, for example,

:23:40.:23:44.

particularly in the field of drugs, things have not been as quick as we

:23:44.:23:48.

would like. Where we know that a drug potentially has worked and

:23:48.:23:51.

there are clinical evidence and trials that's worked we need to

:23:52.:23:56.

bring on stream more quickly and continue to do more quickly

:23:56.:24:02.

medications that are effective. Douglas Alex and tkrer, do --

:24:02.:24:06.

Alexander, do you agree? Of course you want to strike the right

:24:06.:24:10.

balance between established protocols and innovation. Dan is a

:24:10.:24:15.

doctor, I am a lawyer by training. My instinct is to establish on

:24:15.:24:19.

statute a legal water-tight definition. It's a tough ask of the

:24:19.:24:23.

legal draftsman. That being said, my own mother was a leukaemia

:24:23.:24:26.

specialist for many years in the NHS. There recall clearly

:24:26.:24:29.

established protocols for cancer treatment. But if we encounter

:24:29.:24:32.

situations where there are patients who if they follow established

:24:32.:24:34.

protocols, inevitably are not going to respond to that treatment, we

:24:34.:24:38.

need to look, for example, at the named patient procedure in place at

:24:38.:24:41.

the moment and see if there is further scope for innovation

:24:41.:24:44.

because we have an interest in finding right balance between

:24:44.:24:47.

innovation and safety. Because some patients would like to try, if

:24:47.:24:52.

they're coming towards the end of their life, you may think I will

:24:52.:24:56.

try anything, why not, I have not very much to lose? To take

:24:56.:25:02.

Douglas's point, he is a lawyer and he understands that in the court of

:25:02.:25:06.

-- course of the drafting of this Bill by senior draftsmen with

:25:06.:25:10.

support and advice from the judiciary, that the point that the

:25:10.:25:16.

Bill takes in law is to follow, for example, the law in relation to

:25:16.:25:22.

abortion or law in relation to sectioning under the Mental Health

:25:22.:25:25.

Act both of which involve activities not permitted by the

:25:25.:25:29.

signature of one doctor alone. Two doctors are required in both those

:25:29.:25:34.

cases, for very good reasons. In this Bill what the safeguards that

:25:34.:25:39.

appears is a definition of a process which has to be followed in

:25:39.:25:45.

order for the innovation to be legal. That process is very

:25:45.:25:49.

restrictive in that the multidisciplinary teams that Dan

:25:49.:25:53.

has put in place who deal with all cancer patients will have to

:25:53.:25:57.

approve the innovation. I have to stop you there, thank you very much.

:25:57.:26:06.

Because we need to move, we are getting the word from the betting.

:26:06.:26:11.

Let's get back to our friend, Paddy. As you said yourself, before and

:26:11.:26:16.

after, one interruption from the Speaker today. A little bit

:26:16.:26:19.

disappointing. Probably should have been offering odds on how many

:26:19.:26:28.

times the Prime Minister said "you are absolutely right ask that

:26:28.:26:34.

question". To be fair, you were correct. Exactly. What are the odds

:26:35.:26:39.

on the next election? Labour majority is favourite at 5-4. A

:26:39.:26:43.

Conservative majority 11-4. Between the two of them is probably the

:26:43.:26:51.

outcome. What odds on a hung parliament? Would be, I suppose,

:26:51.:27:00.

probably around 8 or 10-1 shot. What odds by still being in Europe

:27:00.:27:06.

by 20? There is talk about a referendum. It's 5-1 that he

:27:06.:27:10.

actually - the Prime Minister says he has an intention of having an

:27:10.:27:13.

in-out referendum on Friday. What odds of Dan Poulter being the next

:27:13.:27:16.

leader of the Conservative Party? This is a difficult one because he

:27:16.:27:23.

is here. You want to pitch this in such a way... 100-1?! We want to

:27:24.:27:29.

offer good value but not be insulting. 80-1. What about Douglas

:27:29.:27:34.

Alexander the next leader of the Labour Party? Well, Douglas, 12-1

:27:34.:27:43.

shot. Better news. Who is ahead of him? Ed Miliband! How very helpful

:27:43.:27:47.

there. I like this one, odds on the first MP to go topless in a

:27:47.:27:52.

photoshoot? I think I - most appropriate thing to do is probably

:27:52.:27:55.

offer 20-1 for either of your guests to do it right now. Because

:27:55.:28:05.
:28:05.:28:07.

we have a fine example of this, you will be pleased to know. Let's have

:28:07.:28:10.

a look. Dan. Is that you having a flu jab? I am disturbed about the

:28:10.:28:14.

Mail on Sunday reporter's interest in spending time in researching

:28:14.:28:18.

this. But I am pleased it's raised awareness for the campaign. We need

:28:18.:28:28.
:28:28.:28:28.

to do The Guess The Year. The answer was David Cameron was - the

:28:28.:28:38.

husky photoshoot, remember? It was 2006. Dan, press that red button.

:28:38.:28:42.

Paul Rees in Hampshire. You won, you got 2006. That's it for today.

:28:42.:28:48.

Health minister Dr Dan Poulter and shadow foreign secretary Douglas Alexander review Prime Minister's Questions and discuss the latest political news with Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn. The Guess the Year competition closes during the live broadcast of this programme.


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