Browse content similar to 21/01/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Westminster is as pretty as a picture under a blanket of snow | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
today, but it takes more than a couple of inches of the white stuff | :00:15. | :00:25. | |
:00:25. | :00:52. | ||
to stop the Daily Politics from It is certainly warmer inside! | :00:52. | :01:00. | |
Coming up: From plebgate to plodgate, now Downing Street's most | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
senior civil servant gets it in the neck. Was the former Chief Whip | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
Andrew Mitchell the victim of rough justice? | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
The Prime Minister warned that North African militants represent | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
the next essential threat which could take years to of off -- and | :01:16. | :01:20. | |
existential threat. The same big speech on Europe | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
waiting to be delivered by the Prime Minister. After the long | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
build-up, will anyone be satisfied. Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
Snow. It looks pretty, but could the transport chaos be putting the | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
brakes on the UK economy? All that in the next hour, and with | :01:40. | :01:44. | |
us for the first half is Ben Summerskill, chief executive of the | :01:44. | :01:50. | |
gay rights organisation Stonewall. Welcome. Let's start with Obama's | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
public an operation for his second term as president, which will take | :01:53. | :01:58. | |
place later. Hundreds of thousands are expected for the event, which | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
will feature music from pop stars, Parade, black-tie balls and tight | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
security. He is expected to follow the recent edition of walking | :02:08. | :02:16. | |
through the crowds fired least some of the way back. -- for at least. | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
He was officially inaugurated in a small White House ceremony on | :02:20. | :02:26. | |
Sunday, as the US constitution requires the President be sworn in | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
by the 20th January. He bowed to preserve, protect and defend the | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
constitution of the United States. What are your hopes for his second | :02:35. | :02:45. | |
:02:45. | :02:48. | ||
term? I hope one of the things he will do it is embed Obama care. If | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
you have a family in America, and I spent some time there, if you judge | :02:55. | :02:58. | |
politicians on what you might call the thatcher Attlee test of whether | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
they left something behind, making sure that 100 million people have | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
health care who did not otherwise is a pretty huge achievement. I | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
hope he will keep America and, consequently, the rest of us, out | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
of war with Iran. And if you wanted some more stuff about hope and | :03:18. | :03:24. | |
change, then possibly doing something at last about gun control, | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
which is something where there is a lot of support from ordinary | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
Americans. Let's look at gun- control. Do you think he will take | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
on the gun lobby which is so powerful in America? My instinct, | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
having seen the way he is setting out his stall, is that is what he | :03:41. | :03:49. | |
might be thinking about. Will he succeed? I think he will probably | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
get further than he might otherwise have -- otherwise have done. I was | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
in New Hampshire at the time of the Connecticut shooting three or four | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
weeks ago. People at home in America are starting to feel deeply | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
uncomfortable and they are reflecting, which is perfectly | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
reasonable, but the second announcement -- the Second | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
Amendment was designed to give people the right to have a single | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
ball rifle to protect them in the outback. It was not designed to | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
give unstable teenagers the right to carry an AK-47. Is it a battle | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
that you think he can make real progress on? You say attitudes may | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
have changed in the living rooms across America, but they always do | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
after an atrocity like this. Will it be enough to change any laws? | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
think if he seeks to do it incrementally, so at the very least | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
people start having to register in order to hold weapons like AK-47s, | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
he will make significant progress. I don't think he will abolish the | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
individual holding of weaponry altogether. | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
A now it is time for away daily quiz. We are staying with re- | :05:02. | :05:09. | |
inauguration. Which artist is performing? Is it Meatloaf, Beyonce, | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
Psy of Gangnam Style fame or Lady GaGa? At the end of the show we | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
will give you the correct answer. The Public Administration Committee | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
has said the most senior civil servant in Jennings Street, Sir | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
Jerry Hayward, failed to resolve key questions about the plebgate | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
affair -- in Downing Street. Mr Mitchell allegedly called officers | :05:31. | :05:36. | |
plebs in an altercation in December. He admits swearing but always says | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
he did not use the words attributed to him. Doubts have subsequently | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
been asked about -- past about the claims against him, including | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
claims to his deputy allegedly written by a policeman posing as a | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
member of the public. When the Prime Minister asked Jeremy Heywood | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
to investigate the e-mails, he concluded they did not prove | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
conclusive for reliable evidence against Mr Mitchell. At the Public | :06:04. | :06:07. | |
Administration Committee, a cross- party group of MPs, say that Sir | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
Jeremy should have pursued the matter further, saying he was | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
surprised -- they were surprised that he did not seek to verify the | :06:16. | :06:19. | |
authenticity of a document purported to be the police. -- | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
police log. They also think he should have advised the PM to refer | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
the police account to the authorities. The report from the | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
Public Administration Committee comes 11 days after MPs heard | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
evidence from Sir Jeremy on the Mitchell affair. What I am | :06:38. | :06:44. | |
wondering here is what actually happened? He did not occur to | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
anyone that it would be possible they could be a massive fabrication | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
at the time. -- it did not occur to anyone. Nobody thought it could | :06:52. | :06:58. | |
happen. Is that part of what underpins the thinking? No, I think | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
we accepted there were unanswered questions, including the | :07:01. | :07:08. | |
possibility of a gigantic conspiracy, or small conspiracy. We | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
decided, on balance, to let matters rest as they were, to stick by | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Andrew Mitchell, keep him in post and move on. With first is the | :07:17. | :07:20. | |
chairman of the Public Administration Committee, Bernard | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
Jenkin. What was the biggest mistake, Cameron's decision to ask | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
Sir Jeremy to investigate all the investigation itself? We were keen | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
to learn from this experience, asking the question are there | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
lessons to learn from how this investigation is conducted, should | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
it be done better and differently in the future? The committee I | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
chair, in the previous parliament it recommended that the Prime | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
Minister's adviser on ministerial interests should conduct these | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
matters. The Civil Service says it is not for the Cabinet Secretary to | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
enforce the code. Last summer we recommended he should be able to | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
instigate his own investigations, the adviser, and the obvious truth | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
is the Cabinet Secretary is not the right person to conduct this sort | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
of inquiry, he is under enormous pressure of time. He does not | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
necessarily have the skills. Inevitably, people will feel he is | :08:20. | :08:25. | |
conflicted. Therefore automatically these inquiry should be run by the | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
adviser and not the Cabinet Secretary. He was the wrong man for | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
the job, which you have said, but that was up to David Cameron who | :08:33. | :08:38. | |
appointed him? He obviously felt he was the right man for the job? | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
There is a habit in Downing Street that somehow with something get | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
referred to the adviser, then it is really ramping up and the minister | :08:45. | :08:50. | |
has to be suspended. I understand all that. In the heat of the moment | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
it is very easy to say things should have been done differently | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
in retrospect, but this investigation failed to uncover the | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
truth. There must be a better way of handling these investigations. | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
You think Sir Alex Allan would have uncovered the truth? I don't know, | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
but he is appointed for the purpose of conducting these investigations | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
and it is far more likely he would give it his full-time, independent | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
judgment likely he would get and that he would have commanded the | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
public confidence necessary for such an investigation. Sir Jeremy | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
Hay, the most senior civil servant in the country, does not inspire | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
that confidence? His remit covers so many other things. Let's look at | :09:34. | :09:40. | |
the weekend he has had. As well as dealing with the response to this | :09:40. | :09:45. | |
report he has been dealing with the Algerian hostage crisis. The | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
hangover of the non-EU speech which has to be handled later. All these | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
things and many others are crowding on his time and putting him under | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
enormous pressure. How is he meant to conduct a dispassionate | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
investigation into the Andrew Mitchell fire at the same time? It | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
is asking too much. Why has this Government repeatedly failed to act | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
on your recommendation, and the previous government, too, to let | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
Sir Alex Allan Duke -- do his job? We are still waiting for a | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
government response to a recommendation we made 10 months | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
ago, usually the deadline is two months. Prime ministers | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
understandably do not want to lose control of things that have a | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
bearing on how the Government is perceived. But the lesson of this | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
is how much better it would have been for the Prime Minister and | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
Cabinet Secretary if they handed his old that as a matter of course, | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
that the adviser handled the investigation. Do you think it was | :10:46. | :10:50. | |
not a good enough investigation by Sir Jeremy Heywood? It looks | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
incomplete, but two things strike me about the issue. One is that I | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
don't think plebgate played as badly in the country as people | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
thought it did, because it was people you would expect trying to | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
exploit it. And if people have prejudices about what MPs think | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
about the voters they will have them anyway. I don't think that was | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
assisted by the Christchurch MP referring to wait is in the House | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
of Commons last week as servants. - - referring to waiters. I suspect | :11:22. | :11:27. | |
that Bernard Jenkin will agree, and I have only picked this up socially | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
from Conservative MPs, another thing really interesting is while | :11:31. | :11:35. | |
there might be MPs who was Liberal Democrat and say they think the | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
police might have made things up or framed people, there are | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
Conservative MPs who are genuinely aghast at the very possibility that | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
a police officer might have invented a claim about a government | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
minister or, indeed, might have fabricated a complaint. Are you | :11:55. | :12:00. | |
aghast? We have been very careful not to go that lot -- not to go | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
there. It is not in our remit. bit like Sir Jeremy Heywood! | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
might say that. The Home Affairs Select Committee is looking at this | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
matter. But there is a criminal investigation in progress. And I | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
think commenting too much on that might endanger a future trial. | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
Absolutely. But I think it, subject to all the qualifications, it being | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
a matter in progress, if this were found to be the case, I think the | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
tectonic plates will shift slightly between the police and many | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
Conservative backbenchers, who would have been instinctively quite | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
supportive of them hitherto. remain instinctively supportive of | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
the police. Their rotten apples in every barrel. Dealing with the | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
diplomatic Protection Group, we are acutely aware that these people | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
would throw themselves in front of a bullet for us, for you, for | :12:53. | :12:59. | |
whoever happens to be standing there. Not for me. They would. I | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
think talking to the police around the Palace who look after us, I | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
have not discussed this with any of them, but I think a lot of them are | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
aghast at what might or might not have happened. Thank you, Bernard. | :13:11. | :13:16. | |
It has been more than four decades since the government of the day | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
decriminalised homosexual acts in private between two men, and the | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
gay rights movement has come up -- come a long way, with several | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
ceremonies parts of everyday life. But it is not so long ago that | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
newspapers thrived an outing gay MPs, and those kinds of stories | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
about public figures still make the headlines. Has the taboo been | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
lifted on being gay in public life? A public display of private life, | :13:40. | :13:45. | |
the annual Gay pride march is a time where gay or lesbian people | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
celebrate their sexuality. But what if you live a public life? How | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
accepting has society come's become when it comes to politicians? | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
much more acceptable than five years ago. David Cameron's | :13:59. | :14:03. | |
government has a lot of work and it is a good atmosphere to be a gay | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
politician. And before that Tony Blair's government and attitude | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
towards gay ministers. It is still not easy, I think they still face | :14:12. | :14:17. | |
more difficulties than heterosexual politicians, because their | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
sexuality is deemed by some not to be the so-called norm. They're just | :14:21. | :14:26. | |
over 20 are openly gay MPs. The first openly lesbian MP says that | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
moves towards make a rights legislation over the past decade | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
has been the result of changes in society. The last Labour government | :14:34. | :14:38. | |
legislated for equal rights in so many areas for LGBT people. It has | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
reflected a change which was already going on in people's | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
attitudes and it has reinforced those attitudes. The gay rights | :14:46. | :14:52. | |
activist teak -- activist Peter Tatchell complained of a senior | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
camp bed mattress near campaign against him when he stood in an | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
election in 1983. Their accusations of homophobia after the term a | :15:01. | :15:05. | |
straight choice was used. The world may have moved on since then, but a | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
study by the gay rights group Stonewall last year said that three | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
in five people think there is public prejudice against gay, | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
lesbian and bisexual people in Britain today. Just under two- | :15:16. | :15:20. | |
thirds of those aged 18 to 29 SEP- there was homophobic bullying in | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
their school and more than three- quarters of people felt that the | :15:23. | :15:29. | |
media relied heavily on cliched stereotypes of gay, lesbian and | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
bisexual people. In 2010, former cabinet minister David Laws was | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
forced to reveal his sexuality during a row about his expenses | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
leading to his resignation. But the author of a book about gay | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
politicians and the press said that the media is changing. People like | :15:46. | :15:50. | |
David Laws and Alan Duncan, while their sexuality is the subject of | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
press coverage, it is more the issues behind it which are bigger, | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
so expenses or being the first openly gay Tory MP. Those are | :15:59. | :16:04. | |
bigger issues. Their sexuality is still an issue. Does geography | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
affect perceptions? More than 20 years since she was first elected, | :16:08. | :16:14. | |
Angela Eagle says not. When I came out in 1998 I think that I was | :16:14. | :16:19. | |
probably the first woman, and I was also one of the first that was not | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
a London member. It did not make any difference, you know? My | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
constituents, thank goodness, judge me for who I was and the job I was | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
doing rather than my sexual orientation. So attitudes are | :16:32. | :16:41. | |
changing, but is that change Ben Summerskill of Stonewall is | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
here, and we are joined by Ian Stewart. You would agree it is | :16:45. | :16:50. | |
easier, is it not to be gay in public life these days? Oh, yes, if | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
you look at when I first became interested and active in politics | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
in the late 1980s, it was unquestionable for me to think | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
about being open about who I was at that time, so we have made enormous | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
progress in the last couple of decades. And as we saw in the | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
interview, even in the last five years, there has been a step change. | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
Why do you think that has been, particularly in the last five | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
years? What has driven that step change? Well, I think there has | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
been a sea-change in society, too. It is not just about | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
representatives in public life, you think it has gone deeper than that? | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
I think so, and the more people see people in all walks of life being | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
open about their sexuality, and it not being an issue, you know, we | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
are seeing more sports stars coming out, and they are not regarded for | :17:41. | :17:48. | |
their sexuality, and there are still problems, areas where there | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
is not enough progress, but the more we see role-models in all | :17:51. | :17:58. | |
walks of life, the more, I think, society will change. Do think the | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
public has a right to know their representatives' sexuality, or is | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
it none of their business? someone wants to keep their private | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
life entirely private, I think that is their matter. If they were | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
starting to talk about family values, while keeping their | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
sexuality secret, I think that is then an issue. But ultimately, I | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
think it is up to each individual to decide for themselves. Do you | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
agree with that, or do you think that public officials have a right | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
to be open about their sexuality? think people have a right to be | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
open about their sexuality. They also have a right not to be, and I | :18:35. | :18:41. | |
think the point about what people say in public and a dissonance with | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
what they might be doing in private, so people talk about family values | :18:44. | :18:49. | |
but keep a mistress, that is a matter of public interest. But the | :18:49. | :18:56. | |
important thing, too, is that across the piece in representation, | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
the quality of politics is improved just occasionally when someone is | :19:00. | :19:05. | |
able to stand up in relation to a particular piece of legislation and | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
say, as someone gay, as someone black, as a woman, this is my lived | :19:10. | :19:14. | |
experience of these issues. It improves the quality of politics, | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
and that is why it is important. mean, traditionally, one might have | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
been able to argue that Labour was a more natural home for gay voters. | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
The thing that has changed now? what I hope is that gay issues are | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
not party political. -- do you think. The Conservative Party, | :19:33. | :19:37. | |
David Cameron has apologised for Section 28, and I think he was | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
right to, not a proud period of my party's history. But what I want | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
the debate to be now is how we tackle the remaining homophobia in | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
schools and elsewhere, and that should not be, whether left-wing or | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
right-wing, we should be looking at the evidence and coming up with | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
sensible ideas. Actually, it is not pointing out that the Conservatives | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
have more openly game of parliamentarians now that all the | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
other parties but together. -- openly gay parliamentarians. There | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
is no openly gay Liberal Democrat peer, only two MPs. So you would | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
encourage people to come out. Absolutely, and on the whole, | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
politicians who have done that say they feel more comfortable, but it | :20:21. | :20:25. | |
is a sign of how the Conservative Party is changing that they are | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
selecting these MPs right across Britain, not just in metropolitan | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
areas. Let's talk about metropolitan areas, because Ian | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
Stuart said that you felt society had changed, it was not just a | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
public face against homophobia. What about attitudes outside of | :20:40. | :20:45. | |
London? His there a geographical divide? I think it can be | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
overestimated. One of the moments of the month of me, if I am | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
permitted such a thing and this programme, was the Any Questions | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
audience on Friday in Barnstaple being asked whether they supported | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
equal marriage, and four out of five of them responded Yes. You | :21:06. | :21:11. | |
know, that is in the heart are the middle Britain, and we are seeing | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
MPs has selected by the Conservative Party, winnable seats, | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
not just in Brighton, Bournemouth or the inner-city areas, but in | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
Milton Keynes, in Pudsey. Glasgow? Yes, well last year the | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
election of Ruth Davidson as election of the Scottish | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
Conservatives, the first openly lesbian lead of any political party | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
in the country, and I know from growing up in central Scotland in | :21:34. | :21:39. | |
the 1980s, you know, that is a phenomenal change that has taken | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
place in a relatively short period of time. What about in schools? You | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
mentioned homophobia that might exist in the school playground. How | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
big a problem is that? We said that Stonewall carried out last year | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
found that 55% of secondary school pupils who identify as lesbian or | :21:58. | :22:03. | |
gay are routinely bullied at school, and research into the experience of | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
Teachers confirms that incidents of bullying, so it is still quite a | :22:08. | :22:14. | |
serious issue. So, again, not wanting to be -- to labour the | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
point on geography, is this across the country? Oh, yes, interestingly, | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
that research is always sliced by region, and we did not see huge | :22:23. | :22:29. | |
discrepancies between London and some parts of the country. | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
Similarly, there are also schools, faith schools in rural areas, that | :22:33. | :22:38. | |
are taking huge steps to tackle homophobic bullying at school, and | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
fashionable comprehensives in metropolitan areas that are not. | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
Thank you very much. How much do you know about the | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
texts and internet messages of your children? You feel you have a right | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
to check what they are sending and receiving on their mobiles or | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
through social networking? According to David Cameron's new | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
adviser on childhood, Claire Perry, parents should insist on seeing | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
their kids' computer and phone exchanges. And she believes society | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
has been complicit in allowing youngsters in appropriate contact | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
with strangers. Well, the government is preparing to respond | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
to a report, and she joins us from College Green. Thank you for | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
standing out in the snow, I hope you're not freezing! No, all right. | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
I have not been preparing a report, since I was appointed in his role, | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
I have been responding to a lot of work that the government has been | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
doing around the report that Reg Bailey prepared, and we will hear | :23:33. | :23:37. | |
more about that next week. One of the things that was quite clear in | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
all of the discussions we have been having on this issue for the last, | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
I suppose, two years, really, is that parents have this feeling of | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
powerlessness in their kids' lives. When we were growing up, if someone | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
was phoning our houses or sending letters to the home, parents would | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
feel they had a responsibility to intervene, that somehow we have | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
ceded that responsibility and feel very nervous about getting involved | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
in their online lives. I have got three children, this is not an easy | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
thing to do, but I think it is right that parents should feel they | :24:07. | :24:12. | |
have got a responsibility to get involved. We are usually paying for | :24:12. | :24:15. | |
these mobile phone contracts and devices, we have a responsibility | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
to monitor what is going on. Just before we continue, what about the | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
issue of privacy? If you are a young gay person, you do not want | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
your parents to know at that stage perhaps, do not want to have a | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
little bit of privacy? There are often weighs four people in those | :24:32. | :24:37. | |
circumstances to make contact with appropriate support systems, but I | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
am old enough, I am in the departure lounge of life now! | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
Hardly! I remember when you were put in detention for putting a note | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
on a paper aeroplane that you sent across the classroom, let alone | :24:49. | :24:56. | |
telephoning people from your desk. And I think it is perfectly proper, | :24:56. | :25:01. | |
while children are still vulnerable, to be thinking quite hard about how | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
they are contacting other people. What are you suggesting, Claire | :25:05. | :25:11. | |
Perry, happens here? How are you going to know and encourage more | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
parental supervision on this issue? I think if we go back to the | :25:15. | :25:19. | |
recommendations of the Bailey Review, one of which was about | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
having more family friendly access to the internet, and that is | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
something that we have campaigned on, and indeed we are working on a | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
process now to implement that with the big internet service providers. | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
But I think it is almost educating parents, and thank you for covering | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
this, because there has been a huge amount of interest in this, to say | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
that actually you have got a responsibility, we cannot leave | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
this up his cause of the government. We have all got to get involved, | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
there is a partnership here, and you should feel he while on the | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
front foot in your conversations with your children. You remember | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
your horror when your mother threatened to read your diary? Of | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
course, children should have privacy in Shard, but we have | :25:58. | :26:04. | |
exposed them to a lot of third- party dangers. -- Chris Eakin | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
childhood. Let's get back a bit of pair of Boris Bond's ability, we | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
can all work together. -- a bit of parental responsibility. | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
wanting to be too cynical, you could argue that is just common | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
sense. You need to have government work done on something that most | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
parents will agree with? I agree, and this is simply an expression, I | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
think, of what is underpinning a lot of the work, which is we need a | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
return to common sense, but with the focus of Number Ten and the | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
Government and the Industry and parents getting involved, we would | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
get to a place where Britain is the safest place to grow up as a child | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
in an online world, and that is a good thing. Yes, we do not want to | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
discourage people from becoming technically savvy, but I think that | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
would be pretty hard, my kids are already way ahead of me. In terms | :26:57. | :27:02. | |
of what the Government can do, a crackdown on raunchy music videos, | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
children's access to lads' mags, what are you suggesting? These were | :27:07. | :27:10. | |
front and centre in the Bailey report, and excellent progress has | :27:10. | :27:16. | |
been made, but there is still things to be done. We were chatting | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
people -- chatting about people not -- we were chatting about people | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
watching fairly explicit music videos on MTV, and many others | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
would like to see a proper age rating system, so that parents can | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
choose what their kids are actually watching. The technology gets | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
clever if you can embed those ratings in an online video, and | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
family-friendly builders can pick them up and scream that material. | :27:41. | :27:45. | |
All the technological solutions are there, we are finally focusing on | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
this, and I think parents have a right of responsibility. You can | :27:49. | :27:55. | |
always turn the internet off. People say, Mike kids are on the | :27:55. | :28:03. | |
internet or might, you can switch it off. -- Mike kids. On that issue, | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
the government is limited on what it can do here. Is it a question of | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
holding back the tide? Raunchy music videos are everywhere, on the | :28:12. | :28:15. | |
television, advertising on billboards, how are you going to | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
stop your children being exposed to it? Acting sometimes it can be a | :28:19. | :28:27. | |
question of taking an interest,. -- I think. We should not forget that | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
mobile phones and social media can be used as a network for bullying. | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
Schools have done a lot of work on that. Some of it is about | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
discussing with young people and educating them. The other thing | :28:39. | :28:43. | |
that is sometimes overlooked in his conversation which causes me very | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
great anxiety is, at the same time as thinking about his use of | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
sexualisation as sex, very little seems to be said about the violence | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
that appears on so much readily accessible media, and probably | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
young people are every bit as impressionable in that area as they | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
are around sex, and we possibly need to do some better thinking | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
about how that can be synthesised to make sure that it is reaching | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
people of an appropriate age. Princess Diana, famously, took her | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
children to a film for which they were under-age, and it was regarded | :29:23. | :29:27. | |
as a little bit of a food. Well, that raises the question of whether | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
we are thinking hard enough about these things in the first place. | :29:31. | :29:40. | |
Thank you for being a guest of the Not everything stops when it snows. | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
Not this programme, and we have a busy week in politics. President | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
Obama begins his second term officially this afternoon with his | :29:48. | :29:52. | |
public re-inauguration. The Prime Minister will make a statement in | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
the House of Commons this afternoon on the hostage crisis in Algeria. | :29:56. | :30:02. | |
On Wednesday we will get his long awaited speech on Europe. On Friday | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
the GDP figures are out which could show that the economy is back in | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
negative territory. Joining me now from snowy College | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
Green are Helen Lewis, the deputy editor of the New Statesman, and | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
Kieran Lewis of the -- and Kiran Stacey of the Financial Times. | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
Three British hostages still unaccounted for, it seems the | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
number of foreigners killed will almost certainly go up? Overnight | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
we thought around 23 hostages or people in total may have been | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
killed, the number is now looking much, much high as they go through | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
the gas plant and see how heavy the damage was both to the hostages and | :30:43. | :30:48. | |
hostage-takers. What about the rhetoric coming out of Number Ten? | :30:48. | :30:52. | |
We have heard from David Cameron and William Hague. I mean the | :30:52. | :30:56. | |
rhetoric in terms of how Britain should respond. William Hague has | :30:56. | :31:00. | |
pointed to Somalia as an example of what might happen in Whalley and | :31:00. | :31:07. | |
has said that Britain is not omnipotent, which is something we | :31:07. | :31:11. | |
need to reminding of occasionally - - he has pointed to Somalia as an | :31:11. | :31:21. | |
:31:21. | :31:26. | ||
example of what might have been in mania. -- Mali. We have heard about | :31:26. | :31:31. | |
the next essential threat, there must be a global response? -- and | :31:31. | :31:36. | |
existential threat? The Prime Minister has come -- compared the | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
situation to that in Afghanistan and says it could take decades to | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
sort out. What we will be doing there for decades is really unclear. | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
Talking to defence officials yesterday they were talking about | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
organising conferences and helping regimes, dealing with their own | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
people. Organising conferences for the next 10 years will not clear | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
Al-Qaeda out. The next question is whether we will have troops | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
involved, as they have been in Afghanistan and large parts of the | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
at least, in North Africa for the next 10 years. -- Afghanistan and | :32:11. | :32:16. | |
large parts of the Middle East. long awaited speech is scheduled | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
for Wednesday this week. Do you think it will be an anti-climax | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
after all this time? It has to be, it has been months and months and | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
months that we have been waiting for it. With it being heavily | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
trailed in advance, I don't see what Cameron can save which will be | :32:35. | :32:41. | |
exciting red meat to the Euro- sceptic wing of his party. But he | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
is promising a referendum. It is too late, we have already been told | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
that, he needs to offer something else! It has all been taken into | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
account now, the backbenchers will want to see something else entirely. | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
I have been told there will be some other kind of red meat, something | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
else for Euro-sceptic backbenchers, but I struggle to see what it is. | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
Any ideas? Anything short of rolling tanks into Brussels will be | :33:11. | :33:17. | |
slightly anti-climactic. There is a simple lesson in terms of marching | :33:17. | :33:23. | |
people to the top of the hill and massaging expectations. Helen, how | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
likely do you think the latest GDP figures will show the economy has | :33:27. | :33:36. | |
shrunk? Very likely. People are saying 0.3%, that does not | :33:36. | :33:40. | |
technically put us in a triple dip but it puts us close to one, which | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
is devastating for a government which has pinned its reputation on | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
economic recovery, it will overshadow politics for the next | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
couple of weeks. Kiran Stacey, in terms of the talk about a triple | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
dip recession, it is dangerous territory for George Osborne? | :33:58. | :34:04. | |
But he has become a real tough love chance and everything bounces off | :34:04. | :34:12. | |
him.... Tough love Chancellor. He still seems to be OK. Labour are | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
struggling to get a lead on the crucial test of economic competence. | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
People generally believe that the Government is doing the right thing, | :34:20. | :34:25. | |
even if it is not quite working it will work eventually and, besides, | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
those Labour lot, we don't really trust them on the economy. So I | :34:30. | :34:34. | |
think he has quite a lot of credit with voters and will do even if we | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
are going to triple dip. Do you agree? Absolutely not. I think a | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
lot of the changes this year will be felt in people's pockets, the | :34:44. | :34:47. | |
austerity. We have had a squeeze a living standards for years and the | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
worst pain has not happened yet. When it does, we will see whether | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
he really is Teflon or not. When the UK loses its triple A credit | :34:57. | :35:02. | |
rating, which almost certainly happen, George Osborne has made a | :35:02. | :35:06. | |
huge deal out of the credit rating so that will be a massive blow to | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
his credibility. Thank you both out in the snow. Get | :35:11. | :35:17. | |
back inside. The Conservative MP and chairman of | :35:17. | :35:22. | |
the Foreign Affairs Select Committee Richard Ottaway, a Labour | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
MP and the former Lib Dem leader Ming Campbell joined me for the | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
rest of the programme. Let's talk about Algeria and Mali. The Prime | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
Minister yesterday warned that Islamic terrorism in the north and | :35:34. | :35:37. | |
west of Africa was an ongoing threat which would take years to | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
will become. This is a stark reminder once again off the threat | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
we face from terrorism the world over. We have had successes in | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
recent years in reducing the threat from some parts of the world, but | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
the threat has grown, particularly in North Africa. This is a global | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
threat which will require a global response. It will require a | :36:00. | :36:05. | |
response which is about years, even decades, rather than months, and it | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
requires a response that his patient and painstaking and tough | :36:09. | :36:15. | |
but also intelligent, but above all has an absolutely iron resolve. | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
Richard Ottaway, has he ramped up the rhetoric too much talking about | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
a global threat needing a global response and that North African | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
militants are existential threat, presumably to the West. I don't | :36:29. | :36:33. | |
think so. If you look at the report of the 9/11 Commission after the | :36:33. | :36:38. | |
Twin Towers attacks 12 years ago, they forecast that a growing | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
population across the Middle East and North Africa would lead to | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
social turbulence. I think what we have seen in the last few weeks, | :36:46. | :36:50. | |
the social turbulence has arrived. Hundreds of millions of kids are | :36:50. | :36:54. | |
out of work without proper jobs, no ambition or aspiration, and they | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
are seduced by the jihadist militants. Actually if there is a | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
challenge here now, it is one of they'd rather than military. The | :37:03. | :37:09. | |
focus has to go on to how to redress the social turbulence we | :37:09. | :37:17. | |
are seeing in the region. David Cameron made a loose comparison in | :37:17. | :37:20. | |
the response, like the response he made in Afghanistan, up that there | :37:20. | :37:25. | |
should be so military involvement. Do you think he will rule that out? | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
I would be surprised if we saw blips on the ground. I think you'll | :37:30. | :37:35. | |
see support and aid like we have in Mali, providing logistics support, | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
I think that is what he will be saying this afternoon. Ming | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
Campbell, what do you want to hear from David Campbell? More about | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
tough but intelligent. When you are assessing the rhetoric, you have to | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
listen to the whole of it. The Prime Minister has been in back-to- | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
back meetings of COBRA for the last four days, it is inevitable that | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
you will have a sense of relief, you might begin stronger and more | :38:04. | :38:11. | |
dramatic terms. I think a lot will depend on the intelligence and | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
foreign policy analysis. This is an area where the United Kingdom has | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
not been particularly prominent for quite a long time, and in that | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
respect we will have to work in close co-operation with the French, | :38:23. | :38:27. | |
because they know this part of the world rather better than we do. I | :38:27. | :38:35. | |
also hope that he will talk about operating, along with our lives. -- | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
along with allies. Have we been slow off the mark in dealing with | :38:41. | :38:45. | |
the North African jihadist threat? We are still out of Afghanistan and | :38:45. | :38:51. | |
will not be out of there until 2014, although there are suggestions, and | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Obama might talk about it today, that the Americans would come out | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
earlier. We might then come out earlier two. We have a very | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
substantial cuts to the defence budget, we are going from 98,000 | :39:04. | :39:09. | |
members of the army to 82,000. When people are talking about pits on | :39:09. | :39:14. | |
the ground, it might not be choice, it might be a necessity -- bids on | :39:14. | :39:22. | |
the ground. Gisela Stuart, bearing in mind the terms that David | :39:22. | :39:26. | |
Cameron used, should we be providing a more robust response? | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
Number 10 have reiterated there will be no combat role for British | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
forces in Mali, but does the British Government need to be | :39:33. | :39:39. | |
upping its game? It needs to say something this afternoon about the | :39:39. | :39:44. | |
security of these workers working in oil and gas installations. But | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
he needs to show a sense of how this happened. The first | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
international arrest warrant for Osama Bin Laden was requested in | :39:52. | :39:57. | |
the mid- 90s by Gaddafi. There has been an awareness in North Africa | :39:57. | :40:01. | |
of a fundamental threat, which I think the West has ignored, to some | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
extent. Secondly, how does he think the NATO Lycett allies will work | :40:07. | :40:15. | |
together? It is the intelligent approach I am looking for, rather | :40:15. | :40:20. | |
than tough language, which could be applied to any conflict. Richard, | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
there is a difference between criminal gangs of Islamic militants | :40:24. | :40:33. | |
and jihadi is, Mokhtar Belmokhtar was one of those. And also over- | :40:33. | :40:37. | |
reacting and saying it is a global threat from Al-Qaeda. Should it be | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
left more internally to some of the North African countries to deal | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
with because there is a risk of escalating the conflict? A around | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
the world, Al-Qaeda is being driven out of its traditional heartlands | :40:50. | :40:57. | |
of Pakistan and Afghanistan and moving into Somalia, Algeria, Mali, | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
Nigeria. It needs an international response. The effort lies primarily | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
in intelligence, reassessment of the strategic role that the West | :41:05. | :41:10. | |
will play. They have been driven out of Pakistan and Afghanistan in | :41:10. | :41:16. | |
part because of drone attacks. That is why they have gone. Does it not | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
need to be matched in the same way in these other parts of north and | :41:19. | :41:24. | |
west Africa? They have been driven out but not destroyed. They moved | :41:24. | :41:27. | |
to other countries where governments is weak in the hope of | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
exploiting it. If you go through the Middle East, starting with | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
Egypt, where the outcome of the most recent election as a matter of | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
some dispute, going to Syria, where we don't know what the outcome is | :41:39. | :41:44. | |
likely to be at all, in the Middle East there are lots of | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
opportunities forced Dutch opera for instability and potential | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
instability. If you just drive them from one country to another you are | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
not dealing with the problem and you might be adding to the very | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
instability in these countries. you think this is just a group of | :41:59. | :42:05. | |
roaming criminals? They are criminals... It is money, drug | :42:05. | :42:11. | |
running? It is cigarettes. Mokhtar Belmokhtar was making money out of | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
illegal cigarettes. They are very important thing is not to call this | :42:15. | :42:20. | |
a war. If you call it a war, you are using their language and | :42:20. | :42:26. | |
adopting or endorsing their moral justification. Name mentioned Syria, | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
but we have to be careful who we work with. -- Ming Campbell | :42:31. | :42:37. | |
mentioned Syria. Some of the Syrian opposition needs to take a closer | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
look... The Prime Minister himself, clearly being the left, one way or | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
another, out of what was going on and what the Algerian government | :42:48. | :42:54. | |
was doing, do you think David Cameron's language, and William | :42:54. | :42:58. | |
Hague's, changed, in the way they were talking about the Algerians? | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
For they were clearly frustrated at being excluded but I don't think it | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
made much difference to the end result, they just wanted | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
information, which is understandable. I think their | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
response has been and continues to be pretty mature. I don't read | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
anything into this. Let's turn to the Prime Minister's | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
big speech on Europe. We have turned to it so awful lot of times! | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
We have learned this morning we will get to hear what David Cameron | :43:26. | :43:36. | |
:43:36. | :43:37. | ||
has to say on Wednesday, we hope! A UKIP MP joins us now. We have a | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
vexed tracks from the speech, are you satisfied? -- we have extracts | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
from the speech. I am looking forward to a firm commitment from | :43:47. | :43:51. | |
David Cameron that he believes the British role remains within the | :43:51. | :43:56. | |
European Union as a leading player. That will be the important part. | :43:56. | :44:04. | |
an in-out referendum crucial to satisfy your colleagues? I think he | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
quite clearly wants to give it his best shot at achieving a new | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
relationship with the rest of Europe and, let's face it, the rest | :44:12. | :44:17. | |
of Europe needs a new -- a new relationship with itself at the | :44:17. | :44:21. | |
moment. And he will probably put back to the British people in a | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
referendum. Will it satisfy some of your colleagues? Some of my | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
colleagues would never be satisfied unless we were outside of the | :44:29. | :44:33. | |
European Union. But I think it will satisfy the broad middle ground of | :44:33. | :44:41. | |
the Conservative Party and Britain as a whole. David Cameron will move | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
into your territory, taking away the reason for disaffected Tories | :44:43. | :44:49. | |
to vote for you? The only referendum that would make any | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
sense would be an in-out referendum very soon. He cannot renegotiate | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
our relationship with the EU. If you are going to change that you | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
need a new treaty with unanimous consent of the 27 member states, 28 | :45:02. | :45:07. | |
when Croatia joins. I think the whole thing as a Conservative Party | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
con trick to try to get voters back onside before the 2014 Euro- | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
elections and the general election in 2015. If he wants to renegotiate | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
he can do that now and it would put him in a strong position if he | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
renegotiated now and brought that before the general election, but he | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
can't do that because it is not on offer. Richard Ottaway, it is a | :45:31. | :45:37. | |
conservative con-trick? Rubbish. This is a very serious policy and | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
UKIP obviously have their own agenda. We are not in a position to | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
have a referendum anyway because there is not a majority in | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
parliament that wants to have a referendum. A sensible, measured | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
approach is the right way forward. There would be if the Liberal | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
Democrats came on board. In 2010 make promised an earn-out | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
referendum in their manifesto. Where has that on? If if further | :46:03. | :46:09. | |
powers were to be transported to Brussels, and that is in the | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
Conservative -- the coalition agreement. If further powers were | :46:13. | :46:17. | |
transported to Brussels, there would be a referendum. In 2010 the | :46:18. | :46:23. | |
Liberal Democrat said we will have a fundamental... I think you did! | :46:23. | :46:27. | |
certainly did not campaign and it. The Liberal Democrats therefore | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
remain committed to end in out referendum the next time a British | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
government signs up to a fundamental change... The fact you | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
are committed to end in out referendum, not just a referendum. | :46:37. | :46:41. | |
Why has that changed? We have the coalition agreement. It is the | :46:41. | :46:48. | |
measure of an agreement between the two parties. It is not a con trick, | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
it is an effort to square a circle, to set us by Angela Merkel adopt | :46:52. | :46:58. | |
the same time Gisela Stuart. The fact of the matter is... This is | :46:58. | :47:04. | |
all my fault?! I am just pointing out how difficult it is. If you go | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
into Europe and say we know there is a crisis in the eurozone, we | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
know you need stability but we are not going to help unless you do a, | :47:13. | :47:17. | |
b and c, you are likely to get a favourable response. If we say, we | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
know there is a crisis, the stability of the eurozone is in our | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
financial and economic interest, we will help. But, by the way, here | :47:25. | :47:30. | |
are some other things we would like to consider. A you think there is a | :47:30. | :47:40. | |
:47:40. | :47:41. | ||
good chance of repatriating powers? Should then be a referendum now? | :47:41. | :47:46. | |
what is the question? The European Union will fundamentally change, | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
those within the eurozone will have deeper integration, and that means | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
those countries outside, including the UK, needs to look at how they | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
relate to it. That is what can and ought to address, whereas he | :47:57. | :48:01. | |
created... It will be interesting to see how he does, because he is | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
giving a speech for internal party political reasons, not because he | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
has got something useful to say, and unless you tell us what the out | :48:08. | :48:14. | |
would mean, it really is a con, and he ought to address... How is it a | :48:14. | :48:19. | |
con? She is saying that the outbid of the referendum is a con to the | :48:19. | :48:25. | |
British people. The only thing that makes sense, is do you want to be | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
part of the United States of Europe? That is where it is heading, | :48:29. | :48:33. | |
it is almost there anyway. Do you want to reassert just status as an | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
independent nation? There is no other choice on offer. You were | :48:37. | :48:41. | |
talking about further powers being taken by the EU, and it is very | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
difficult from my position in the parliament, where I see this | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
legislation coming through, to see what powers they could still take. | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
There's very little now that the House of Commons has power over. | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
According to a German study in 2006, about 84% of our new laws come from | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
the European Union, covering every aspect of national life. OK, let me | :49:03. | :49:09. | |
put that to Gisela Stuart, that is the only choice. No, it is not. We | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
will always have to have a relationship with our neighbours. | :49:12. | :49:15. | |
But you could come out of the European Union had just be like | :49:15. | :49:22. | |
Norway? But we are not Norway, we are the sixth largest... It is | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
crazy, that is not the choice, but there is a fundamental question for | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
those countries within the geography of Europe who will not | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
join the single currency and how they will relate to each other and | :49:33. | :49:38. | |
how they will relate to the core of Europe, and that is the work that | :49:38. | :49:44. | |
camera needs to do. Let me explode the myth about Norway. It sits at | :49:44. | :49:47. | |
side of the room when decisions are being taken, but in order to trade | :49:47. | :49:52. | |
with... They still have access to the markets. It has to sign up to | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
all the protocols, and edition, often forgotten, it has to | :49:55. | :50:01. | |
contribute money to the European Union which, if scaled up, would be | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
equivalent to �3.5 billion for the UK. So this notion that somehow | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
Norway is a paradigm that we should aim for makes no sense whatsoever. | :50:10. | :50:16. | |
It gives you obligations, but it does not give you openings. Gerard | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
Butler, you are going to say something. We are much bigger and | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
more powerful than Norway. Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
they both have higher per-capita incomes than Britain. Switzerland | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
did a study in 2006 on its possible relationship with the EU, and they | :50:32. | :50:37. | |
worked out it would cost them six times more to actually be a member | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
of the European Union than stay outside. Both of those countries to | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
trade with the EU. Britain is a much bigger economy than they are. | :50:45. | :50:49. | |
We could still trade with the EU and the rest of the world, but what | :50:49. | :50:52. | |
is important is that Britain is a global trading nation, and we do | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
not want to restrict ourselves just to the European Union. What should | :50:56. | :51:03. | |
Ed Miliband be saying now? Something! At the moment there is a | :51:03. | :51:07. | |
lot of prevarication from Labour in terms of what they would offer. | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
and a half years away from a general election... No, it is no | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
good, no... It is for the Government to propose. This beaches | :51:17. | :51:20. | |
of David Cameron's choosing, and if he does not have something useful | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
to say, he should not have talked it up. This is the same Labour | :51:24. | :51:29. | |
Party that joined with the Euro- sceptics on the backbenches of the | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
Conservative Party in order to defeat the Government's proposal | :51:34. | :51:37. | |
about the budget of the European Union. If we are cutting everything | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
including welfare, we cut this as well. This is an opportunity to say | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
that and then say we are committed Europeans. We never have | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
opportunism in politics, of course! Thank you very much. | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
For easing weather and snow across many parts of the UK, have you | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
noticed? It has brought transport to a standstill in some parts of | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
the country. Nearly 5,000 schools have been closed and passengers are | :52:01. | :52:09. | |
facing delays to journeys by road, Heathrow has cancelled more than 10 | :52:09. | :52:14. | |
design sign of its schedule, 187 fights, while flights at Leeds, | :52:14. | :52:18. | |
Manchester and East Midlands have been suspended. -- more than 10% of | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
its schedule. Jo main roads in North Yorkshire have been closed | :52:22. | :52:30. | |
because of snow. -- two. Up to eight inches of snow is forecast to | :52:30. | :52:34. | |
fall in some areas. West Yorkshire has been at the centre of today's | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
snow for, and Ed Thomas is in Bradford. Ed, how did you get to | :52:40. | :52:46. | |
where you are? With a lot of difficulty, but I did get here, | :52:46. | :52:52. | |
that is the good thing! It has just started to slow down, the snow here, | :52:52. | :52:56. | |
but this is the picture in West Yorkshire now, Bradford today. When | :52:56. | :53:01. | |
people walk up on the street this morning, they saw all this no, and | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
then they decided to go back to bed again. A lot of these cars have not | :53:05. | :53:11. | |
moved today. This one behind he is a taxi, and this has had an impact | :53:11. | :53:17. | |
on people's lives. -- behind me. This is how much snow as fallen in | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
Bradford, not scientific, but it would give you some idea. I am told | :53:21. | :53:24. | |
it is up to five inches. Four streets like this, it has meant a | :53:24. | :53:29. | |
lot of people have had to stay indoors. Because of that, a lot of | :53:29. | :53:34. | |
schools have closed in Yorkshire, over 750 have had to shut their | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
doors to children, which has had an impact on people's lives because it | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
stops parents from going to work. We can just about walk on the | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
streets here, but take a look at the main A-roads. They are passable, | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
they have been gritted by the local council, as have many across the | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
North of England, and they are passable with care. This road takes | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
you into Bradford from the M60 to in that direction, so it is looking | :53:59. | :54:05. | |
OK on the main roads. -- the M62. The back roads are passable with | :54:05. | :54:11. | |
care. Problems also at Manchester Airport, Leeds-Bradford, Robin Hood | :54:11. | :54:16. | |
airport, delays and cancellations. On the trains, the East Coast | :54:16. | :54:20. | |
mainline has delays of half an hour, as on the West Coast Main Line. We | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
have had delays and that as well. It all goes to show that the snow | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
is not the heaviest it has been in the North of England, but it is | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
having any impact on people's lives. It is dying down here now, but more | :54:31. | :54:36. | |
is expected later in the north-east of England and Scotland. Check your | :54:36. | :54:41. | |
local weather forecast to see how it will affect you. Ed, thank you | :54:41. | :54:45. | |
for telling us in! Keep warm and the safe. It seems that the roads | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
have fared better this year, because for a few years we have had | :54:49. | :54:53. | |
this kind of snow, but is this more efficient gritting, cars have been | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
able to pass, the trains have not been too bad, but the transport | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
network, is enough being done to make sure that it functions? I grew | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
up in southern Bavaria, where this would not even...! What I would say | :55:07. | :55:12. | |
is, yes, they are getting better, any driver should ring the nearest | :55:12. | :55:16. | |
driving school and get themselves lessons in driving in these kind of | :55:16. | :55:20. | |
conditions. The thing which strikes me, even when the roads have been | :55:20. | :55:26. | |
gritted, drivers are not used to it, they start using... It is not the | :55:26. | :55:29. | |
snow tyres, it is winter tyres, which are more effective if the | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
temperature falls below seven degrees, one-fifth of the year. | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
Your garage will store it for you of a winter, just to learn to drive. | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
Ming Campbell, Heathrow, is it acceptable that an international | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
airport flight Heathrow can cancel 190 flights, as it has done today, | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
and hundreds over the weekend? took me 10 hours from the centre of | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
Edinburgh to my flat in Pimlico yesterday, because I went to | :55:57. | :56:01. | |
Edinburgh airport for a flight which continued to be described on | :56:01. | :56:06. | |
the internet as leaving at 5 o'clock. I got there, I was still | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
there at seven, when they said it was cancelled, and then through the | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
good grace of the people I know, because I am a regular traveller, I | :56:14. | :56:19. | |
was put on to another flight. Contacts! Eventually, we got to | :56:19. | :56:24. | |
Gatwick, not even Heathrow, at just after 12 o'clock. And the point is, | :56:24. | :56:28. | |
we know that this is going to happen at some stage. Why on earth | :56:29. | :56:32. | |
are we ready? It is like one of the slow-moving car crashes, you can | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
see what is going happen four days ahead, but nothing is done to avert | :56:36. | :56:44. | |
it. Isn't the problem specifically at Heathrow? Gatwick fared better. | :56:44. | :56:50. | |
Because his eyes at 97% capacity, I heard the woman from BAA saying we | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
have a plane landing every 45 seconds, there is no room to | :56:54. | :56:57. | |
manoeuvre, to space them out. Don't we need to do something about | :56:57. | :57:04. | |
expansion? The debate about expansion, of course, is enormously | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
controversial, Boris putting his all in... The Liberal Democrats | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
ruling it out. At Heathrow. Shouldn't that be the international | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
airport? I think we have to look at other opportunities. Of course, if | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
you have other opportunities in respect of airports, you have got | :57:20. | :57:24. | |
to have the fast links to the centre of London, which are | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
complementary to that. What about the impact this is having on the | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
economy? Well, it is bound to have an impact on the economy, and what | :57:32. | :57:37. | |
is more... The government cannot afford that at this stage. If it is | :57:37. | :57:41. | |
any consolation, I was in Moscow a few weeks ago, when they get snow | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
all the time, and there was just as much chaos, notably shut, airports | :57:45. | :57:53. | |
closed. Is that a justification? but the point is, stuff happens, Jo, | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
we just get on with it. But we ought to be looking ahead, and | :57:57. | :58:01. | |
there is a serious issue about capacity. We have had this sort of | :58:01. | :58:05. | |
snow every year for the last few years, George Osborne blamed it for | :58:05. | :58:08. | |
the lack of growth, and no doubt we will have a shrinking of the | :58:08. | :58:12. | |
economy and it is going to happen again. Can we allow the weather to | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
have that much of an impact? As we say, it happens, and we have to | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
learn to live with it. You know, we are struggling with the economy, it | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
is bumping along, as you were saying earlier, possibly going into | :58:24. | :58:29. | |
a corrugated bottom. On a corrugated bottom, we will finish | :58:29. | :58:37. | |
there! The answer to our quiz, he was performing at President Obama's | :58:37. | :58:43. | |
ceremony? Who knows the answer? Beyonce! Well done, Richard Ottaway. | :58:43. | :58:46. |