07/06/2013 Daily Politics


07/06/2013

Andrew Neil with the latest political stories including shadow health minister Liz Kendall and Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservatives.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 07/06/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Daily Politics. As evidence grows that the Syrian regime is using

:00:43.:00:46.

chemical weapons against its own people, so does pressure on Britain

:00:46.:00:52.

and the West to help the rebels. We'll talk to one MP urging the

:00:52.:00:57.

Prime Minister to seek Parliamentary approval before we do. Who's right

:00:57.:01:04.

about A&E in England? Ed Miliband or David Cameron? After their spat at

:01:04.:01:09.

Prime Minister's Questions we'll try to establish the facts. After a big

:01:09.:01:12.

week for the two Eds, is Labour on the road to economic credibility or

:01:12.:01:16.

has it just stopped digging the hole it's in? We'll put that to rising

:01:16.:01:25.

Labour star Liz Kendall. Take a look at this little beauty. Top speed?

:01:25.:01:29.

49mph! Fast! But what's happened to Government plans to raise the limit

:01:29.:01:39.
:01:39.:01:43.

Queen might have visited New Broadcasting House this morning but

:01:43.:01:48.

here in Millbank. We've got Fleet Street royalty. Polly Toynbee of The

:01:48.:01:55.

Guardian. And Anne McElvoy, of The Economist. Welcome to you both.

:01:55.:02:00.

Let's start with the lobbying scandal. The BBC Panorama

:02:00.:02:02.

investigation that started it all was finally broadcast last night.

:02:02.:02:06.

Controversy has raged all week with one MP and three peers alleged to be

:02:06.:02:11.

implicated in wrong-doing. And the announcement that the government

:02:11.:02:19.

would introduce a long-awaited lobbying register. Conservative MP

:02:19.:02:21.

Patrick Mercer resigned the Tory whip after claims that he broke

:02:21.:02:25.

Parliament's lobbying rules. Here's a clip of Mr Mercer, talking to a

:02:25.:02:34.

fake lobbyist, in the BBC sting. mention something about getting

:02:34.:02:44.
:02:44.:03:20.

traction with the FCO? Well it all could do for what he thought was a

:03:20.:03:25.

lobbyist. I mean, what is guilty of, no doubt, will come out in time, but

:03:25.:03:29.

shouldn't he really be charged under that the trades description act for

:03:29.:03:34.

making out that all-party groups of MPs matter at all? That is possibly

:03:34.:03:39.

true, but it's still an unpleasant and greasy site to see that.

:03:39.:03:44.

Basically, hawking his wares. Whether or not they are as he

:03:44.:03:49.

describes, he put his hand up to his ear when the guy says it's not that

:03:49.:03:55.

easy when clearly he's not sure what is talking about but, nonetheless,

:03:55.:03:58.

the appearance you are trading favours is bad enough, and the

:03:58.:04:03.

preparedness to do so is certainly contravention of his duties as an

:04:03.:04:06.

MP. Whether he could bring home the bacon would've been a problem for

:04:06.:04:11.

him. He would have had the money in the bank by then. And that's the

:04:11.:04:15.

problem. I think he should be done for crass stupidity. Anybody that

:04:15.:04:22.

stupid should not be allowed to enter the Commons. That's a high bar

:04:22.:04:25.

there. For 20 years now, any lobbyist going into the Commons with

:04:25.:04:32.

loads of money is certainly from the Sunday Times. Certainly. A fake

:04:32.:04:35.

somebody from somewhere. Wouldn't you say that coming from 1 million

:04:35.:04:43.

miles away? He had not even bothered to look it up to see if it existed

:04:43.:04:46.

or not? That would be the real purpose of a register. If you had a

:04:46.:04:51.

register and somebody approached you, you could check it on the

:04:51.:04:57.

register. That's the reason why the register never get off the ground

:04:57.:04:59.

because it really helps people trying to do a deal. It doesn't help

:05:00.:05:05.

the rest of us very much. government, which is do nothing

:05:05.:05:08.

about the register for three years, now Russia is one outcome and then,

:05:08.:05:16.

from its own point of, quite cleverly links to bashing union

:05:16.:05:18.

financing of the Labour Party. Extraordinary because when Labour

:05:18.:05:26.

was in partly dashed party, Jack Straw and others were determined

:05:26.:05:31.

this would be done fairly in a cross-party agreement and it never

:05:31.:05:35.

happened because they could not get that and now suddenly, this

:05:35.:05:39.

government says, let's wallop labour and leave it at that. It is at the

:05:39.:05:44.

unfair. If we are going to have a fair and decent and clean system of

:05:44.:05:48.

party financing, it ought to be state funded. It is the lesser of

:05:48.:05:55.

many evils. I think we have to go for that and a great between the

:05:55.:05:59.

parties. I'm told Mr Clegg is happy to go along with this bit of union

:05:59.:06:03.

bashing because he's fed up when he goes back to Sheffield being

:06:03.:06:08.

constantly verbally beaten up by the local government public sector

:06:08.:06:13.

unions there. It's turned into a kind of anti-unionist. It's amazing

:06:13.:06:20.

what too much contact with the trade unions can do to the left. I'm not a

:06:20.:06:23.

fan of state funding and I think it has a lot of head and looks and

:06:23.:06:27.

crannies of its own which can become problematic, but I'm not sure the

:06:27.:06:36.

register as it is conceived will stop this thing happening again.

:06:36.:06:39.

Let's see what happens. I suspect people are disappointed Mr Mercer

:06:39.:06:42.

gets to stay in the House of Commons for another two years. And does not

:06:42.:06:45.

have to resign his seat straightaway and can carry on doing its own

:06:45.:06:48.

expenses. Last month the EU lifted its arms embargo on Syria with

:06:48.:06:51.

Britain and France making the case that they should open up the

:06:51.:06:54.

possibility of arming Syrian rebels. And the argument for that is growing

:06:54.:06:57.

stronger as more evidence emerges that the Assad regime has used

:06:57.:07:03.

chemical weapons against its own people. But MPs from all parties who

:07:03.:07:06.

fear the consequences of any such intervention are putting pressure on

:07:06.:07:09.

the Government to commit to a vote in the House of Commons before a

:07:09.:07:15.

decision is taken. Here's one of them, Conservative Julian Lewis,

:07:15.:07:18.

asking David Cameron about the issue at Prime Minister's Questions on

:07:18.:07:28.
:07:28.:07:34.

Can the Prime Minister confirmed that he will recall Parliament

:07:34.:07:39.

before any action is taken to arm the Syrian opposition during the

:07:39.:07:45.

recess? I have never been someone who is wanted a stand against the

:07:45.:07:49.

house having to say on any of these issues, and I've always been someone

:07:49.:07:53.

early on to make sure that Parliament is recalled to discuss

:07:53.:07:57.

important issues, let me stress, as I did on Monday, no decision has

:07:57.:08:01.

been taken to arm the rebels, so I don't think this issue arises, but,

:08:01.:08:06.

as I say, I support holding that vote on Iraq. In my premiership,

:08:06.:08:09.

Wenger was the issue of Libya, I recall the issue of Libya, I

:08:09.:08:19.

recalled as soon as I possibly could and I know it has to have a vote,

:08:19.:08:21.

but this issue does not arise at present because we have made no

:08:21.:08:23.

decision to arm the rebels. Well, that the Minister yesterday

:08:23.:08:27.

answering Julian Lewis who joins us now. Andrew Lansley added a bit.

:08:27.:08:33.

Tell us, Julian, as we sit here this morning, on the issue of arming the

:08:33.:08:39.

rebels, what have you got? I am wholly opposed to arm in the rebels

:08:39.:08:42.

and that is for the same reason I was in favour of previous military

:08:42.:08:50.

intervention. I didn't mean on the subject but what have you got in

:08:50.:08:52.

Parliamentary terms? Do you believe the government cannot do it unless

:08:52.:08:57.

it puts it before the house and gets a vote? I believe the government

:08:57.:09:02.

could proceed without a vote but they would be unwise to do so and I

:09:03.:09:07.

also believe that if they put it to a vote, the portability if they

:09:07.:09:11.

would lose. What did you get from the leader of the house yesterday?

:09:11.:09:16.

The implication from David Cameron was I will recall the house if we

:09:16.:09:21.

are in the summer recess. Andrew Lansley, the leader of the house,

:09:21.:09:25.

suggesting there would be a vote. How bankable are these commitments?

:09:25.:09:30.

I don't know, I wasn't at that session yesterday. But my

:09:30.:09:36.

understanding is we are slowly decreasing the wriggle room of the

:09:36.:09:38.

government. If the government thought they were going to be able

:09:38.:09:40.

to get this through behind Parliament 's back, during the

:09:40.:09:45.

recess, they will have to think again. The implication is that the

:09:45.:09:50.

government could still have some wriggle room? I think they could

:09:50.:09:55.

proceed to give the arms to the rebels and then seek Parliamentary

:09:55.:10:04.

approval after it was a say to complete -- once it was done.

:10:04.:10:11.

this becomes a major issue in the summer recess, when Parliament is

:10:11.:10:17.

down, should Parliament be recalled before the government proceeds to

:10:17.:10:22.

arm the rebels? Yes, that was the point of my question to the Prime

:10:22.:10:25.

Minister on Wednesday. But you don't think you have a clear answer to

:10:25.:10:30.

that? He is moving closer to the position I want to take wishes to

:10:30.:10:36.

say the rebels will not be sent arms by the British unless and until

:10:36.:10:40.

Parliament has voted in favour of it. But he has not said it

:10:40.:10:45.

explicitly yet. Why should Parliament be called for arming the

:10:45.:10:54.

rebels? It's in a different category from Britain sending troops to Iraq

:10:54.:10:58.

or Afghanistan or even troops to Syria. I think on the president of

:10:58.:11:03.

what happened in Libya, you can see what was presented parliament them,

:11:03.:11:10.

as a no-fly zone, turned out in reality to be an active air to

:11:10.:11:13.

ground campaign on behalf of one side in a civil war and we had a

:11:13.:11:20.

vote on that. No one so far is suggesting that the British armed

:11:20.:11:26.

forces get involved in Syria either from the air or on the ground.

:11:26.:11:31.

that case, the government is dammed if it does or doesn't. If it

:11:31.:11:36.

proposes simply to hand over arms without having any sort of presence

:11:36.:11:40.

as to how the people will be instructed to use them, how they

:11:40.:11:44.

will be used in conflict, and who will get their hands on them, if

:11:44.:11:49.

they simply say, we are going to parachute a great supply of lethal

:11:50.:11:53.

military equipment and let them get on with it, I think you would

:11:53.:11:58.

typically find it didn't work out like that. This would be the foot in

:11:58.:12:01.

the door towards military intervention or otherwise it's even

:12:01.:12:05.

more stupid than I think the government's declared policy at the

:12:05.:12:11.

moment is. A lot of people wouldn't argument that a lot of people would

:12:11.:12:15.

not argue, if we went to war, they need arms, but I'm sure the Foreign

:12:15.:12:21.

Office sees it this way, that this is the commons trying to determine

:12:21.:12:26.

foreign policy. I think they need to express a view and have an

:12:26.:12:32.

opportunity to express it on a proposal to assist one side in a

:12:32.:12:36.

Civil War where our deadliest enemies, Al-Qaeda, are fighting on

:12:36.:12:40.

the side we are proposing to assist and the people who they are trying

:12:41.:12:45.

to overthrow, have got a stock of deadly nerve gases, which would more

:12:45.:12:51.

likely than not, fall into the hands of Al-Qaeda. A lot of Conservative

:12:51.:12:55.

backbenchers agree with you? Definitely. You could join the

:12:55.:13:00.

labour this came to a vote. If you join Labour and some Liberal

:13:00.:13:04.

Democrats, too, the government may not get this policy through

:13:04.:13:10.

Commons. That is exactly my view. I believe what is going to happen is

:13:10.:13:15.

that Labour, if the government is unwise enough to try and circumvent

:13:15.:13:21.

Parliament, Labour will probably make some of its opposition day time

:13:21.:13:26.

available and then we could have a debate on the basis that this should

:13:26.:13:30.

not proceed without Parliament being recalled first and what's more, I,

:13:30.:13:34.

and I know plenty of other people in the Conservative and Liberal

:13:34.:13:38.

Democrat parties, would be happy to co-sponsor a motion of that sort.

:13:38.:13:44.

Brought by the Labour Party and before the summer recess? On a

:13:44.:13:48.

cross-party basis, simply that the Labour Party would facilitate it as

:13:48.:13:52.

having the time to have the debate, which Parliament should certainly

:13:52.:13:56.

have anyway and which I'm sure the government would want to do if it

:13:56.:14:01.

thought Parliament was on its side. It seems to me that the Prime

:14:01.:14:07.

Minister is room for manoeuvre is getting more confined. Events have

:14:07.:14:10.

made it so it's hard to avoid bringing this before Parliament,

:14:10.:14:16.

even in a recess and it's by no means clear he could win a vote if

:14:16.:14:20.

it did go before the Commons. think you properly wouldn't and what

:14:20.:14:24.

he said in the Commons was merely a pledge. It's interesting because it

:14:25.:14:27.

opens up a whole lot of questions which you suggested. Should we have

:14:27.:14:33.

a vote in Parliament every time we sell weapons to anybody? We sell

:14:33.:14:37.

weapons to everybody, Saudi Arabia. If we had a proper open discussion

:14:37.:14:42.

about that, I think a lot of our arms sales would come a stop. What's

:14:42.:14:45.

being proposed now, I totally understand and I completely

:14:45.:14:52.

sympathise with Cameron's feelings. We must do something when we see

:14:52.:14:54.

appalling things happen and go in there and support the good guys but

:14:54.:15:01.

I agree with Julian, it's not practical. This is an interesting

:15:01.:15:03.

Parliamentary technicality. It's important but does not answer the

:15:03.:15:07.

question which is really the vital one, which is what to do about

:15:07.:15:12.

Syria, the situation with President Assad. Coming from the American

:15:13.:15:18.

perspective, the leaders in all this, Barack Obama is looking like

:15:18.:15:22.

Clinton in Bosnia, allowing a budget on a massive scale, and the rise of

:15:22.:15:27.

Al-Qaeda and this it seems to me, seems to be the more important

:15:27.:15:31.

point. I'm worried about binding the hands of the executive and

:15:31.:15:36.

Parliament is not staffed with experts on this and related issues.

:15:36.:15:43.

Like these Arabian experts who told us about the Arab Spring. And a

:15:43.:15:46.

great game in Afghanistan. OK, we have to leave it there. This issue

:15:46.:15:53.

will obviously be important. It remains unresolved, Syria, and I

:15:53.:15:58.

reserve the argument. Will you come back and tell us of development?

:15:58.:16:04.

Yes, of course I will. I'd be happy to do that but I want to make this

:16:04.:16:09.

one thing clear, in the case of a rock, the whole point was to keep

:16:09.:16:14.

chemical weapons away from Al-Qaeda. If we assist them to take over in

:16:14.:16:17.

Syria, we will be bringing them closer to having chemical weapons.

:16:17.:16:27.
:16:27.:16:30.

That worked in a block because they did not have any. Thank you. Too

:16:30.:16:35.

many of us find ourselves cruising along the motorway over the speed

:16:35.:16:42.

limit. The government announced in 2011 it would consider setting a

:16:42.:16:47.

limit at 80. Since then, they have gone very quiet about it. We have

:16:47.:16:53.

been finding out if history can tell us why that might be.

:16:53.:16:58.

There was a time when going for a drive was an expensive luxury, done

:16:58.:17:05.

for the sheer hell and fun of it. An age when life wasn't about traffic

:17:05.:17:12.

wardens and congestion. What hasn't changed almost from the start of

:17:12.:17:18.

motoring is our habit of driving fast and the political rows about

:17:18.:17:24.

controlling our need for speed. This is a 114-year-old speeding ticket

:17:24.:17:34.
:17:34.:17:41.

issued for the crime of clocking over four miles an hour. By 1903,

:17:41.:17:49.

cars were more powerful and 14 mile an hour limit was raised to 20.

:17:49.:17:53.

There was a terrific fight. The fight was an interesting one, a

:17:53.:17:59.

class fight. These rich aristocrats, for the first time, came into

:17:59.:18:04.

conflict with the police who were their natural allies. Suddenly they

:18:04.:18:09.

were breaking the law. The police were imposing speed traps.

:18:10.:18:16.

This conflict wasn't just between motorists and the law, but between

:18:16.:18:20.

motorists who have always been split over speed.

:18:20.:18:27.

I divide it into, on the one hand, the Jeromy Clarkson s of the world

:18:27.:18:33.

who want to go as fast as they can. And, those who believe that, yes,

:18:33.:18:38.

indeed, they are drivers and with light the road to suit them, but

:18:38.:18:43.

they also realise they are citizens and they do not want to mow down

:18:43.:18:51.

children. They feel responsible. This 1901 French car can go a

:18:51.:18:58.

surprising lack, 49 miles an hour. When it was in use, what kept the

:18:58.:19:03.

speed gun wasn't the law as the state of the road. Today, that is

:19:03.:19:07.

still true, despite ever more powerful cars, congestion on

:19:07.:19:12.

overloaded roads and motorways is a bigger deterrent to speeding down

:19:12.:19:16.

the law. Politicians today are no more inclined to enter the speeding

:19:16.:19:22.

debate than in 1903. Being the Minister of death is the

:19:22.:19:28.

last thing any politician wants to do. You have to be a bold or foolish

:19:28.:19:33.

position to advocate raising the speed limit on motorways -- foolish

:19:33.:19:38.

politician. There could be an appalling crash by large numbers of

:19:38.:19:42.

people will be killed and you will be in the firing line.

:19:42.:19:47.

Coming up hard against facts like that, you can see why ministers and

:19:47.:19:57.

the motorist might rather hanker for driving along at 20 in the sunshine.

:19:57.:20:00.

Joining us in the studio is former Top Gear presenter and motoring

:20:00.:20:05.

journalist Sue Baker. Welcome. Should the speed limit to be raised

:20:05.:20:11.

to 80? It is sensible it should be. Any law which is disregarded by 50%

:20:11.:20:16.

of the population is bad law. It would bring us into line with most

:20:16.:20:21.

of the rest of Europe where 81 mph is the permitted speed limit on

:20:21.:20:27.

motorways. But wouldn't more people die?

:20:27.:20:32.

There is the fear of that. The reason cars crash is because they

:20:32.:20:38.

are too close to one another, speed in itself is not dangerous. Cars in

:20:38.:20:45.

close books imitate, that is dangerous. We need to enforce the

:20:45.:20:49.

suggested new law. Correction-macro cars in close proximity, that is

:20:49.:20:55.

dangerous. We need to get more discipline in lanes.

:20:55.:21:05.

You say speed doesn't cause crashes. But 1.4% of all crashes in Britain

:21:05.:21:11.

result in a fatality, but 2% on the motorways. I would suggest that is

:21:11.:21:18.

because cars are going faster. Faster, but in close proximity.

:21:18.:21:23.

You don't want people tailgating, holding lanes, getting other drivers

:21:23.:21:32.

frustrated. I like the nanny state. When did

:21:32.:21:40.

that happen? The petrol heads are libertarians, seat belts and speed

:21:40.:21:45.

limits are dreadful. Very few politicians who have made an impact,

:21:45.:21:50.

they have brought in speed limits and seat belts which have saved

:21:51.:21:55.

lives and made a real difference to huge numbers of people. Anyone who

:21:55.:22:00.

wants to be the Minister of death, I don't recommend it.

:22:00.:22:07.

I am sceptical. People ignoring driving at 80 when there is a 70

:22:07.:22:15.

speed limit. Then if you raise the speed limit, people will chance it,

:22:15.:22:18.

that is what behavioural psychology tells us. In Germany where there is

:22:19.:22:28.
:22:29.:22:30.

a higher speed limit, this is a regulated general society. The

:22:30.:22:36.

modern car can go very fast and people will do that. The idea you

:22:36.:22:40.

can enforce people not driving in the middle lane sufficient to offset

:22:40.:22:44.

this is a dream. We are better off where we are.

:22:44.:22:50.

The difference in Germany is many motorways have no top speed limit.

:22:50.:22:54.

The speed differential between people doing a comfortable speed of

:22:54.:23:02.

80 miles an hour, and 150 in supercars, that is the problem.

:23:02.:23:08.

Most of the crashes are around the 80 mph.

:23:08.:23:13.

A lot of people drive between 70 and 80 on the motorways because they

:23:13.:23:17.

have a feeling the police will let them do it. That you have to be

:23:17.:23:22.

above 80 before the police will call you over. What is to stop the idea,

:23:22.:23:29.

if AT is the official limit, then 80-90 is acceptable.

:23:29.:23:34.

Let us enforce a sensible law. We are cutting police numbers now.

:23:34.:23:42.

The report today is talking about speed cameras. The libertarian press

:23:42.:23:46.

were against speed cameras but they have done very well. The RAC says

:23:46.:23:53.

the king at data, crashes were cut by more than a quarter after cameras

:23:53.:24:02.

were put in place. Those 20 -- but those figures, in

:24:02.:24:09.

those counties, accident rates have gone up. You can draw what you like

:24:09.:24:19.
:24:19.:24:20.

from those statistics. I am sure if it was 80... I would

:24:20.:24:25.

try not to exceed the limit. I don't use the car very much, I nearly

:24:25.:24:35.
:24:35.:24:37.

always go by train. What about you? My worry is with a higher speed

:24:37.:24:44.

limit, I would want to go slower. I must confess I have gone over the 70

:24:44.:24:54.
:24:54.:25:00.

speed limit. Why aren't you on Top Gear? Because I am not Jeromy

:25:00.:25:05.

Clarkson! We had better leave it there.

:25:05.:25:07.

Now, no question which party has dominated politics this week. For

:25:07.:25:13.

the last seven days, it's been all about Labour. This week was a double

:25:13.:25:16.

"Edder" as we were treated to big speeches from Balls and Miliband,

:25:16.:25:20.

with the same broad underlying message: Labour won't be lax with

:25:21.:25:26.

your tax. On Monday, the Shadow Chancellor talked about the need for

:25:26.:25:29.

"an iron discipline" on spending control and hinted that Labour's

:25:29.:25:31.

would not be radically alter George Osborne's "very tough spending plans

:25:31.:25:34.

from this year's Spending Review". Adding: "They will be our starting

:25:34.:25:44.

point." On welfare, Mr Balls stated that wealthy pensioners should no

:25:44.:25:47.

longer receive the winter fuel allowance, which critics saw as a

:25:47.:25:53.

move away from the principle of universal benefits.

:25:53.:25:55.

On Wednesday, it emerged that Labour would not reverse the Government's

:25:55.:25:59.

decision to means test child benefit.

:25:59.:26:02.

Yesterday, it was his leader's turn to sell the tough message announcing

:26:02.:26:05.

a three-year cap on structural welfare spending.

:26:05.:26:09.

Exactly how the cap will work in practice, its level, and who might

:26:09.:26:19.
:26:19.:26:22.

be directly affected, remains to be seen.

:26:22.:26:31.

What do we make of this? Is this a significant week for Labour? Has it

:26:31.:26:36.

moved in a different direction or has it done some major U-turns? It

:26:36.:26:40.

is a pretty significant week for Labour.

:26:40.:26:50.
:26:50.:26:50.

We can see from your headlines, cat welfare spending. Universal

:26:50.:26:55.

benefits, no longer in favour of those, after resistance to George

:26:55.:27:00.

Osborne and getting rid of child benefits for higher earners. We can

:27:00.:27:07.

see repositioning here. At launching his weakness particularly on

:27:07.:27:13.

benefits, the welfare system and spending. Whatever he said, he has

:27:13.:27:17.

not been able to address. He is moving in a different direction. How

:27:17.:27:24.

far can he take his own party? And make it coherent?

:27:24.:27:27.

How significant? Very significant they have accepted what was

:27:27.:27:37.

inevitable, on spending. Within that, they can move plenty of things

:27:37.:27:42.

around, they can put more into benefits, whatever they want within

:27:42.:27:49.

that year. Also, it is important to remember, it doesn't include

:27:49.:27:56.

investment. Gordon Brown is important role on that.

:27:56.:28:00.

Borrow for capital investment. I am sure they will come in with

:28:00.:28:05.

something like 1 million new homes over the period of the parliament,

:28:05.:28:10.

still less than Harold Macmillan built. Huge investment for growth,

:28:10.:28:15.

jobs, apprenticeships. You worry about the chipping away of

:28:15.:28:21.

the universal benefit principle. The winter fuel allowance was never

:28:21.:28:30.

universal. The idea of giving someone like me in winter fuel

:28:30.:28:35.

allowance is plainly daft. As for child benefit, for better off

:28:35.:28:40.

families. If you were coming in now, what government in its right mind

:28:40.:28:46.

would say, the first �2.3 billion I spent would be giving it to a

:28:46.:28:50.

handful of the richest families. It is straightforward.

:28:50.:28:53.

Not just the richest families but the middle.

:28:53.:28:58.

The top 10%. In London and the south-east, it

:28:58.:29:03.

affects a lot of people who are on �50,000 a year.

:29:03.:29:09.

They are still the top 10%. Because we live in the bubble we do, we

:29:09.:29:18.

forget the medium is now 21,000 -- the median.

:29:18.:29:28.

How much do you think this was focus group driven? The polls show Labour

:29:28.:29:38.
:29:38.:29:47.

consistently ahead, but not kind to welfare, benefits, which tend to get

:29:47.:29:52.

people going in the run-up to elections, people were not sure

:29:52.:29:58.

about what Ed Miliband's position worth. It's interesting that Polly

:29:58.:30:02.

says he has room for manoeuvre on benefits. I think it leaders

:30:02.:30:08.

manoeuvre too much, he's back where he started. If he says, I'd take

:30:08.:30:12.

this on board and I will put a cap on things but I want to move things

:30:13.:30:16.

around and raise benefits, I think he loses the political edge of this

:30:16.:30:21.

message which is, I am realistic about public finances. Housing

:30:21.:30:28.

benefit is the one benefit... needs to build a lot more homes.

:30:29.:30:33.

He's not going to bring in rent control, is he? They probably will

:30:33.:30:40.

have to do. I think you could say, no rent can rise for a few years

:30:40.:30:43.

above inflation. And that, over time, would bring down housing

:30:43.:30:51.

benefit. And then you would stop building builder to let. No one has

:30:51.:30:54.

ever managed to get the money out of pension funds to do that. It never

:30:54.:31:02.

happens. But to building?The government. As shoot a social

:31:02.:31:06.

programme, not directly, directly, authorities, housing associations.

:31:06.:31:12.

They are the people... There will have to be a rise in the housing

:31:12.:31:16.

stock. Labour and the Tories can come up with different ways but that

:31:16.:31:21.

seems to be the only way to get out of the housing shortage. It's one of

:31:21.:31:23.

the things people will cast their vote. Probably not the last

:31:23.:31:31.

election. Even though Labour's record is poor. This government

:31:31.:31:36.

managed to build even fewer. That's extraordinary. Public opinion is in

:31:36.:31:41.

favour of borrowing for growth. They are in favour of borrowing for

:31:41.:31:51.

growth in housing. This week, a poll says Labour are only 4% behind on

:31:51.:31:57.

who is best to manage the economy. When Tony Blair went into the 1987

:31:57.:32:04.

election, he was 7% behind. Also 30 points ahead in the polls. Lots of

:32:04.:32:12.

other compensatory policies. Are you clear that, hasn't Labour actually

:32:12.:32:19.

said that they will accept the 2015 current spending tax? I'm pretty

:32:19.:32:23.

sure about it. I have not seen it in black-and-white. They don't know

:32:23.:32:31.

what they're going to get. We have got Ed Balls on the Sunday Politics.

:32:31.:32:36.

On your behalf, all will be crystal clear. No doubletalk of there.A

:32:36.:32:41.

sense of irony there, I don't know. I think he was clear this week on

:32:41.:32:45.

more than it has been in the past. was hoping to interview Liz Kendall

:32:45.:32:51.

today. The up-and-coming Labour star, but it doesn't look like we

:32:51.:32:58.

have her, but we will continue because economic policy was not Ed

:32:58.:33:00.

Miliband's argument of choice at Prime Minister's Questions this

:33:00.:33:05.

week. I wonder why? Instead, the Labour leader went on the attack

:33:05.:33:07.

over waiting times in Accident and Emergency departments in England

:33:07.:33:11.

which hit a nine-year high in the first quarter of this year. Here's a

:33:11.:33:16.

reminder of Wednesday's argument about the issue.

:33:16.:33:19.

Two years ago, during the Prime Minister's listening exercise on

:33:19.:33:23.

health service he said this, "I refuse to go back to the days when

:33:23.:33:29.

people had to wait for hours on end to be seen in A&E, so let me be

:33:29.:33:35.

absolutely clear, we won't. " what is gone wrong? We are now meeting

:33:35.:33:39.

targets for accident and emergency. There was a problem in the first

:33:39.:33:45.

quarter this year which is why the medical director of the NHS will be

:33:45.:33:48.

holding an investigation. The crucial factor is this. Over the

:33:48.:33:52.

last three years, there is 1 million more people walking into accident

:33:52.:33:58.

and emergency unit every year. independent King 's fund says the

:33:58.:34:03.

number of people waiting more than four ours is higher than at any time

:34:03.:34:08.

for nine years. Can he explain to the countrywide A&E waiting times

:34:08.:34:13.

fell under Labour and have gone up under his watch? The fact is, we are

:34:14.:34:20.

now meeting our targets. That's what happened in the House of Commons

:34:20.:34:25.

over A&E. We are joined now by someone who can shed a light on all

:34:25.:34:32.

of this. Ruth Dalby, a senior fellow at the Nuffield trust who knows a

:34:32.:34:36.

thing about this. Welcome to the programme. Ed Miliband has talked

:34:36.:34:41.

about a crisis in A&E. Is there one? I think the A&E department across

:34:41.:34:45.

the country are under severe pressure. We know that they have

:34:45.:34:50.

been struggling to meet their four-hour A&E waiting times since

:34:50.:34:56.

last summer, so it's to the same that this peaked between January and

:34:56.:34:59.

March this year and they failed to meet the target. They went from 5%

:34:59.:35:06.

of people waiting longer than five hours and went up to 6%. It's true

:35:06.:35:10.

to say that since the 12th of May, it has improved dramatically so the

:35:10.:35:16.

big question is, can this be sustained? Would it be fair to say

:35:16.:35:23.

it was a cold winter? Wintertime, more people use A&E. And as

:35:23.:35:28.

stretched into spring, winter, and there's been a seasonal problem but

:35:28.:35:33.

now the seasonal problem seems to be largely over? That is possibly true.

:35:33.:35:39.

I think the underlying factor is that, over time, more people have

:35:39.:35:44.

been gradually using A&E for a whole variety of reasons. It is not true

:35:44.:35:50.

to say that this is simply down to the GP contract which was

:35:50.:35:54.

renegotiated in 2004. Some have claimed this meant out-of-hours care

:35:54.:35:59.

suddenly collapsed and everybody poured into A&Es but it's not true.

:35:59.:36:03.

Out of hours in some areas have been a problem and people feel at easier

:36:03.:36:08.

to get A&E departments, but it's a whole complex set of reasons behind

:36:08.:36:12.

this. Including factors like older people who inevitably have more

:36:12.:36:18.

health problems who can't have it sold in primary care. A lot of young

:36:18.:36:22.

children come into A&E and that's because parents are worried and need

:36:22.:36:27.

reassurance and also 30-year-olds coming in for all sorts of reasons

:36:27.:36:30.

as well. The underlying trend is more people are coming in and the

:36:30.:36:39.

real challenge is they are having to be treated with flat budgets.

:36:39.:36:43.

Another explanation is immigration, a lot of immigrants to this country

:36:43.:36:45.

who come from countries where they don't have a doctor, and they

:36:45.:36:51.

haven't arranged their own GPs, so when something goes wrong with them

:36:51.:36:56.

and their families, the natural place for them to go is A&E. Is that

:36:56.:37:00.

a factor? There's no evidence to suggest not happening on a major

:37:00.:37:04.

scale in the NHS. Locally, in some areas, it could be a problem where

:37:04.:37:08.

people are not registered with GPs or may find it hard and, in some

:37:08.:37:14.

hospitals, in areas, they will put GP services inside A&E departments

:37:14.:37:20.

to improve it but on the whole, it's just not true. The Prime Minister

:37:20.:37:24.

has made a great deal of how bad things are in Wales on waiting times

:37:24.:37:30.

and so on. Wales is run by Labour, obviously, and hasn't done most of

:37:31.:37:34.

the reforms the English health services gone through. Are things

:37:34.:37:41.

bad in Wales? It's under pressure, it's also got financial problems,

:37:41.:37:45.

and problems in its A&E departments. It's difficult to make

:37:45.:37:48.

direct comparisons. They have an older population, more deprived

:37:48.:37:53.

population, and in many parts of Wales, it's quite rural, so they

:37:53.:37:57.

have different problems but whether you can pin it on a specific flavour

:37:57.:38:03.

of government, I'm not sure. Thank you very much for marking our card

:38:03.:38:10.

on that. We have sold the technical problem, partly and let's have a

:38:10.:38:14.

look at Liz Kendall in Leicester. There has been a sound problem.

:38:14.:38:20.

She's having to hold an earpiece to her ear. Can you hear me? I can, as

:38:20.:38:27.

long as I held it like this. Let me begin on the waiting times. It was a

:38:27.:38:32.

cold winter, more people went to the A&E departments, breaching of the

:38:32.:38:37.

targets, but it's back on track again for some it has come down

:38:38.:38:43.

again to the target, so it's not a crisis, is it? A&E is a barometer as

:38:44.:38:49.

to how the rest of the NHS is doing and if you listen to independent

:38:49.:38:54.

experts like the Nuffield trust and the NHS Confederation, they say

:38:54.:38:57.

there are real stresses and strains on the system which has been caused

:38:57.:39:02.

a lot by the pressures on social care, so elder people who could be

:39:02.:39:05.

capped at home healthy and independent, are ending up in

:39:05.:39:12.

hospital. Real problems with the new 111 number and issues around

:39:12.:39:16.

staffing cuts, specifically nurses. In Leicester we've had real problems

:39:16.:39:21.

in A&E. My local clinical commissioning groups say those are

:39:21.:39:25.

the reasons for those problems and my concern has been that we were

:39:25.:39:29.

warned the government back in January about the pressures on it

:39:29.:39:33.

and it was only on the 9th of May that the government wrote to people

:39:33.:39:39.

saying, where are your action plans? It's too little too late. But it's

:39:39.:39:45.

back on target now. Well, we will see. We have been speaking to people

:39:46.:39:52.

and we'll see. We will see whether those improvements are sustained and

:39:52.:39:56.

also when we come to the next winter, whether the real changes we

:39:56.:40:00.

need, to put much more support in the community under home, joining a

:40:00.:40:09.

social care, has been done. Do you have any evidence anybody died?

:40:09.:40:12.

have not talked about people who may have suffered from the A&E crisis,

:40:12.:40:18.

but what we do know is waiting in A&E are at their highest for nine

:40:18.:40:22.

years, cancelled operations and trolley waits are the highest for

:40:22.:40:29.

nine years. Given that the A&E target is only 5% of people should

:40:29.:40:32.

have to wait more than four hours, what happened at the worst period

:40:32.:40:39.

was 5.9%, it increased, you say no one died but as the party presided

:40:39.:40:48.

over the mid-Staffs tragedy, don't you do more humble on this matter?

:40:48.:40:51.

300,000 people are waiting more than four hours in A&E and that is not

:40:51.:40:58.

acceptable. How many died mid-Staffs? What happened in

:40:58.:41:00.

mid-Staffs was utterly appalling and unacceptable and we need to learn

:41:00.:41:04.

lessons from that. I think there were things from there which are

:41:04.:41:09.

also relevant to the A&E crisis. You need enough properly trained staff

:41:09.:41:14.

but ultimately, what you need is to transform the system so we have more

:41:14.:41:17.

support for elderly and vulnerable people at home and if the government

:41:17.:41:21.

has spent the last three years focused on proper forms instead of

:41:21.:41:26.

this wasteful talk down reorganisation, we would be in a

:41:26.:41:36.
:41:36.:41:41.

better place now. What is different for Labour's policy position today

:41:41.:41:47.

than it was last weekend? I think we have set out some really fundamental

:41:47.:41:51.

reforms to the Social Security system. It will help people work, to

:41:51.:41:55.

reform housing benefit, to tackle issues in incapacity benefit, and

:41:55.:41:58.

encourage more parents of young children to get work ready before

:41:58.:42:02.

their children are aged five. We are really looking at the root causes of

:42:02.:42:07.

the increase in the welfare bill. And trying to set forward some

:42:07.:42:11.

proper reforms that will make it better for people to work and have

:42:11.:42:14.

the opportunities to have a good living standard for their families

:42:14.:42:21.

and to tackle low pay. I think Ed sent out some really... Give me an

:42:21.:42:25.

example of where you are different last weekend. Housing is a real

:42:25.:42:32.

issue. Ed said before we came too late to the housing issue in

:42:32.:42:36.

government and we have set forward some strong proposals about how we

:42:36.:42:40.

can start shifting spending money on housing benefit into house-building.

:42:40.:42:45.

Investing in the future rather than... I don't know what that means

:42:45.:42:51.

in terms of policy. What it means is, we want to get new powers to

:42:51.:42:54.

local councils to negotiate better deals of landlords, see proper

:42:54.:43:00.

affordable housing for people, I also think we have put forward some

:43:00.:43:04.

clear proposals on it. Something the government has failed to do. We also

:43:04.:43:09.

want to look at reforming incapacity benefit and the tests that there are

:43:09.:43:12.

for people with disabilities who can work and we have said we want to

:43:12.:43:18.

take action on low pay. That's what the government is doing.

:43:18.:43:25.

government is never done that. talking about incapacity benefit.

:43:25.:43:30.

Their tests are not working. When 40% of people who repeal those

:43:30.:43:32.

decisions are people with disabilities and they are being

:43:32.:43:36.

repealed and they are upheld, the system is not working. We want to

:43:36.:43:40.

work with disability groups to focus on the people who can work and what

:43:40.:43:44.

skills they can offer and having a proper work programme. Here in

:43:44.:43:49.

Leicester, we had a great work programme which was scrapped. The

:43:49.:43:53.

new work programme here is not working for people locally. It's a

:43:53.:43:57.

big change. Can you clarify something for me because it's not

:43:57.:44:05.

quite clear. Will Labour accept current spending plans for 2015-16?

:44:05.:44:10.

They have got to be our starting point. So you will accept them?They

:44:10.:44:16.

have got to be our starting point. Will you accept them? They're 30

:44:16.:44:19.

colonic policy means they are borrowing much more than they

:44:19.:44:23.

originally planned. We have got to take difficult decisions and they

:44:23.:44:27.

will be our starting point. interested in this phrase, "

:44:28.:44:37.

starting point". So will you accept the 2015-16 spending plans you will

:44:37.:44:44.

inherit? It's got to be our starting point. As the shadow... Can't you

:44:44.:44:50.

say the word accept? Why can't you say the word accept? Maybe you

:44:50.:44:57.

don't? You seem to have picked on a formulation of words to try and get

:44:57.:45:01.

you off the hook of saying you actually accept the spending plans.

:45:01.:45:05.

You will understand, Andrew, what the government predicted what would

:45:05.:45:09.

happen to the economy two years ago is fundamentally different to what

:45:09.:45:12.

we have now. What they predict in June could be the reality of the

:45:12.:45:17.

economy in two years time but as a shadow health minister for older

:45:17.:45:21.

people, we have to do take what the government said as a starting point

:45:21.:45:24.

and look at how we make different decisions about priorities and

:45:24.:45:27.

spending within those limits and that's what we have said and that's

:45:27.:45:37.
:45:37.:45:39.

what we'll to do. You have now accepted the winter fuel payment

:45:39.:45:45.

should be means tested, and child benefit should be means tested.

:45:45.:45:50.

Anything else you have in mind which should be means tested?

:45:50.:46:00.
:46:00.:46:02.

I really agree, further 5% of the that. We will come forward with more

:46:02.:46:10.

detailed Persaud 's goals -- proposals but this shows if you had

:46:10.:46:14.

to make a decision, in terms of the winter fuel payment, with all the

:46:14.:46:19.

other pressures in the system, payment to the richest 5%, is an

:46:19.:46:26.

indication of our approach. I don't think you are in a position

:46:26.:46:33.

to tell me. If you promise to come back to tell us first, we promise to

:46:33.:46:40.

get you a proper sound system! So, lots going on this week. In case

:46:40.:46:43.

you missed any of it, here's a reminder of the week in just 60

:46:43.:46:53.
:46:53.:46:53.

seconds. The week began with allegations of

:46:53.:46:59.

three lords lobbying. Claims of wrongdoing were denied but to be on

:47:00.:47:04.

the safe side the government announced plans to introduce a new

:47:04.:47:09.

register. And they thought it was time to look at union membership and

:47:09.:47:15.

political donations. Again. Ed Miliband and Ed Balls sketched out

:47:15.:47:21.

some new ideas on the economy. The idea of axing winter fuel payments

:47:21.:47:26.

for pensioners. And ruling out bringing back child benefit for the

:47:26.:47:35.

better. The House of Lords that the government gave marriage plans.

:47:35.:47:39.

There will be increased pressures for polygamy.

:47:39.:47:48.

There were tantrums after Nick Clegg through his plans to relax rules on

:47:48.:47:58.
:47:58.:47:59.

child out. Nick Clegg got his way on childcare,

:47:59.:48:07.

is that a surprise? That is a surprise in one. The

:48:07.:48:17.
:48:17.:48:17.

deregulation of childcare did run a very long time. In the end, it has

:48:17.:48:25.

been batted out of court. What does it tell us about the state

:48:25.:48:32.

of the coalition? It shows you the Lib Dems are good at putting a brake

:48:32.:48:36.

on bonkers ideas. The idea one childminder could look

:48:36.:48:42.

after six under two-year-old children.

:48:42.:48:51.

There is a real problem. All he has done, there is not another solution

:48:51.:49:01.
:49:01.:49:03.

for childcare. That wasn't a solution. The problem

:49:03.:49:10.

has not been sold but one thing has been stopped.

:49:10.:49:14.

It wasn't a solution. This will be a good battle ground at the next

:49:14.:49:21.

Now, you might have thought that was your lot for this week, but no,

:49:21.:49:23.

because there's more. You lucky people. This morning, the Prime

:49:23.:49:27.

Minister has been to sunny Stirling. Hardly Ibiza but, by the look of it,

:49:27.:49:30.

he'll still be topping up the tan. His companion this time, not Sam

:49:30.:49:33.

Cam, but Ruth Davidson, the embattled leader of the Tories in

:49:33.:49:35.

Scotland. Mr Cameron has been addressing the party this morning,

:49:35.:49:42.

and here's what he had to say. Our United Kingdom 's history has

:49:42.:49:46.

always been one of shared endeavour. Proud in our individual

:49:46.:49:51.

identities but working together for a common good. We saw it when our

:49:51.:49:55.

soldiers brought together under one flag on the beaches of Normandy.

:49:55.:50:00.

When our doctors came together to build our NHS. In the scientific

:50:00.:50:04.

breakthroughs we have made together, through television and

:50:04.:50:07.

penicillin. And last summer as athletes around Britain, no matter

:50:07.:50:12.

where they were from, draped themselves in one flag. There is so

:50:12.:50:17.

much more still to come. Why wouldn't we want to face the future

:50:17.:50:21.

together? There is no challenge we face together where breaking up

:50:21.:50:29.

Britain is the right answer. David Cameron. I'm delighted to say

:50:29.:50:32.

that Ruth Davidson, Tory leader in Scotland, joins us now from

:50:32.:50:38.

Stirling. Why won't you give the party

:50:38.:50:41.

faithful a debate on whether or not the Scottish Parliament should have

:50:41.:50:46.

more powers? We have asked Lord Strathclyde to

:50:46.:50:54.

bring forward proposals and asking the party to feed into. When those

:50:54.:51:00.

proposals are brought forward, they can be the focus for debate.

:51:00.:51:04.

Wouldn't he have liked to hear the party faithful with their views at

:51:04.:51:10.

conference, so he could sweep up the mood of your party?

:51:11.:51:14.

We have invited people within the party.

:51:14.:51:20.

Why no debate? There is an open question Time

:51:20.:51:24.

session so people can ask anything they like. Presumably the

:51:24.:51:32.

constitution will come in that. In terms of a debate, you need emotion,

:51:32.:51:39.

firm proposals. Tom Strathclyde has not completed his work. Those

:51:39.:51:42.

proposals will be taken to our members.

:51:42.:51:47.

Don't you owe it to the Scottish Conservative members? You won the

:51:47.:51:51.

leadership of your party campaigning against further powers for Scottish

:51:51.:51:54.

Parliament. You have now set up a commission to look at further

:51:54.:51:58.

powers. You have changed your mind, shouldn't your members have their

:51:58.:52:04.

say? They are having their say. Not a

:52:04.:52:14.
:52:14.:52:20.

debate. Are you afraid? Not at all. What is important to remember is,

:52:20.:52:25.

between now and the referendum, we will have a report from Tom

:52:25.:52:31.

Strathclyde, serious proposals brought forward to debate. We have

:52:31.:52:35.

three conventions each year for our members to bring forward things.

:52:35.:52:43.

have you changed your mind? In terms of, the last few years, we have seen

:52:43.:52:49.

the constitutional debate live on. The stresses majority government has

:52:49.:52:54.

put on. And in terms of someone in the Scottish Parliament every day,

:52:54.:53:01.

we see where those stressors show the Parliamentary system are

:53:01.:53:10.

wanting. In terms of Post a referendum, if we win it, we need to

:53:10.:53:14.

have a constitutional settlement which people in Scotland are happy

:53:14.:53:20.

with. Stable, devolved government. Sir Alex Salmond does not come back

:53:21.:53:28.

in five years or ten years agitating for another referendum. We need to

:53:28.:53:31.

make sure it is a settlement which meet the aspirations of people in

:53:32.:53:39.

Scotland. A stable settlement. When your party voted your leader on the

:53:39.:53:44.

visible you wouldn't draw a line in the sand on any more powers being

:53:44.:53:47.

transferred to Scotland, it turned out that line was actually in the

:53:47.:53:53.

sand and easily washed away. When people were voting in the

:53:53.:53:59.

Parliamentary and leadership elections, it was a lot more on

:53:59.:54:08.

other issues as much as the situation at issue. Correction-macro

:54:08.:54:17.

constitutional issue. We saw the Prime Minister arguing for a United

:54:17.:54:23.

Kingdom but without a united party. A lot of things were discussed will

:54:23.:54:30.

stop a lively leadership campaign. What I am doing is bringing forward

:54:30.:54:32.

a mechanism for people from different parts of the spectrum in

:54:32.:54:39.

our party to feed into Tom Strathclyde. I look forward to the

:54:39.:54:47.

work his commission is doing. You say you have kept the Scottish

:54:47.:54:53.

Conservative party going. It has had some stability. The stability of the

:54:53.:54:56.

graveyard. You are dead in the water.

:54:56.:55:02.

When I took over, we had 19 years of decline, that is difficult to turn

:55:02.:55:11.

around overnight. The party is in better shape to fight elections. We

:55:11.:55:18.

are building a policy platform, with an energy review policy. Rural

:55:18.:55:27.

policy. Bringing in all of the talents we have in the party. And

:55:27.:55:31.

seeing improvements in terms of polling and research.

:55:31.:55:41.
:55:41.:55:42.

Let me give you the figures. 1997, you had 18% of the vote, lost every

:55:42.:55:52.
:55:52.:55:53.

seat in Scotland. 2005, 16%. 2010, 17%. The latest shows you around

:55:53.:55:58.

16%. I repeat, you are dead in the water, this is the end.

:55:58.:56:03.

I took over in November 2011. To build a strong policy platform to

:56:03.:56:12.

take our message to the people of Scotland. In 2011, we got 12.9% in

:56:12.:56:17.

the first, 13% in the second. worse than the 1997 general

:56:17.:56:24.

election. As I say, when I took over, we wanted to build for the

:56:24.:56:29.

future to change the face of the Scottish Conservatives. A third of

:56:29.:56:33.

our councillors elected had never been involved in councils before. We

:56:33.:56:43.

are bringing in new people, new candidates for future elections.

:56:43.:56:49.

There is a lot of structural reform. I don't see any difference on the

:56:49.:56:55.

ground. You have got no MPs in 1997. Since then, you have added one. In

:56:55.:57:04.

other words, in 15 years, you have added one MP. Leading Tory

:57:04.:57:08.

strategists here say you are only targeting three seats at the next

:57:08.:57:11.

election in Scotland for Westminster and you have hopes of winning only

:57:11.:57:20.

two. You have gone from zero, 21, Tattoo by 2015. At this rate you

:57:20.:57:26.

will end up with an overall majority in Scotland by 21-80.

:57:26.:57:34.

Correction-macro 2180. There hasn't been a UK general

:57:34.:57:39.

election since I took over. We are laying the groundwork. How many

:57:39.:57:45.

seats? I want to win as many as I possibly can. I have worked that one

:57:45.:57:55.

out. We need to see what happens in the referendum, in terms of bringing

:57:55.:57:59.

forward new faces in the party to fight the election for us, and to

:57:59.:58:07.

bring this blog -- policy platform. So we have a party which is fit to

:58:07.:58:12.

fight. Do you think you will face a

:58:12.:58:19.

leadership challenge? That is up for someone else. I am the first given a

:58:19.:58:24.

mandate by the members of our party, one member, one vote. A

:58:25.:58:29.

lively leadership election. The people of my party wanted me to be

:58:29.:58:37.

here. We are confident in the future.

:58:37.:58:40.

Thank you for joining us. That's all for today. Thanks to our

:58:40.:58:44.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS