12/06/2013 Daily Politics


12/06/2013

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Politics. Do you feel squeezed? And I know I do. I blame Jo.

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Unemployment is down, but only by a little. And if you have got a job,

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the top boffins say the value of your pay packet has fallen more in

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the current economic downturn than ever before. William Hague is off to

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Washington to talk about Syria. Could relations with Russia get

:01:01.:01:11.
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chilly? Will it be colder at PMQs or will it be hot, hot, hot? We will

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have the actioned at midday. We will have grunting, shunting and sweaty

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MPs on the programme too! I can hardy wait!

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All that and more in the next 90 minutes of value for money TV. There

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is no danger of closing us down! Don't hold your breath.

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I hope it doesn't give anyone ideas, Made in Chelsea and Towie eat your

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hearts out. We have Michael Howard joining us today and current Shadow

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Foreign Secretary, Douglas Alexander. Welcome to both of you.

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Thank you. Let's take a look at the economy

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because the latest unemployment figures were released this morning.

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They show the unemployment rate effectively unchanged at 7. 8%.

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There were 2. 51 million unemployed people in the quarter to April. Down

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5,000 from the previous year so only a little. But down 88,000 from a

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year earlier. A report today however by the Institute of Fiscal Studies

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says that UK workers have experienced an unprecedented fall in

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wages. They mean in real terms. A third of workers in the same job saw

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a wage cut or a freeze between 2010 and 2011. The IFS says that's

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because some people have been willing to accept less money in

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order to hold on to their jobs. And it has been a feature of this

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recession and current economic circumstances that wages have been

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flat, but unemployment has not risen by as much as many expected. Michael

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Howard, putting aside the economics of the pain of these freeze in

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living standards or cut in living standards causes, is it not a big

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political headache for the coalition to go into an election period with

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living standards still not rising? Well, we've two years to go before

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the election, but people understand what is happening all over the world

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and if you look at the figures today, of course, unemployment is

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far too high and we want it to come down, but compared with what is

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happening in the rest of Europe, we are doing relatively well and people

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understand that and 1. 3 million jobs have been recrated in the

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private sector since the last election. Three jobs in the public

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sector for every one lost in the public sector and I think people

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understand that there is a trade-off between accepting a real terms cut

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in wages and keeping your job or losing your job and for most people,

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it is a better deal to keep their job.

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What do you say to that, Douglas Alexander? I don't think it is a

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trade-off between willing to cut your wages and getting employment

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back. Of course, times are tough. And I felt when I looked at the

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figures they confirmed what we know. Both families are struggling to get

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by. But that we continue to have a significant unemployment crisis in

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the country. Of course, we welcome any small drop in unemployment, but

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unemployment today is higher than it was in 2010 and so we need to see

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measures that will get the economy moving forward because there is a

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correlation between a stagnant economy and the fact that

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unemployment is high. Compared to our European partners, the situation

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is not that bad? Well, it depends which countries you look at.

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Name me one and let's do it. The eurozone is facing difficulties.

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Even Germany, the IMF is saying we will grow twice as fast as gerpany

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this year -- Germany this year. no one is saying we are off to the

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races. This is the weakest recovery since economic statistics were

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invented. It is the politics of it that interests me. Labour has been

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able to do comparisons with other countries in which unfavourable to

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the record of the coalition. I'm just wondering if the terms of trade

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are beginning to change now and that comparisons in a general sense that

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recovery is underway are going to be to Labour's disadvantage.

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When Michael started, he said all around the world. From 20007 to

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2010, the Conservatives want wanted to imply this was the responsibility

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of Gordon Brown. So tough are the economic circumstances confronting

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George Osborne, every Conservative spokesman says, " It is difficult

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everywhere." Are global conditions tough? Of course, they are. But on

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the other hand, I would say if you look at the level of growth of the

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United States economy since the crash that there are lessons in

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terms of what is the right balance You know America as well as I do.

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Unemployment has not gone as high because of the flexibility of the

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labour market. I have never said it was all created

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by Gordon Brown. Of course, there was a worldwide economic crisis. Our

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problem was we were in a much less strong position to deal with it

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because of the situation over which Gordon Brown presided. Had we

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started saving during the good times asked in, I suggested we should in

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the 2005 general election, we would have been better erequest ipd to

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deal with the -- better equipped to deal with the downturn.

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Let me put this to you, Douglas Alexander - when the pollsters ask

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the question do you mean Ed Miliband and Ed Balls could manage the

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economy better than Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne, only 24% said they

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could. This month, it is down to 19%. What's happening? These numbers

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move around... They do, but always down. Of course, it will be tough

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for any leader or Shadow Chancellor to build confidence. Margaret

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Thatcher's numbers were below Jim Callaghan's. It didn't stop Margaret

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Thatcher becoming Prime Minister. Even Gordon Brown's numbers before

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1997 were below that of Ken Clarke's. So you are not worried?

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I'm not complacent. I am giving you two examples.

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I am not complacent. I have given you two examples of where one party

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has taken over in both cases because of the authority of Government is

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judged to be in a position of having credibility, but can lose the

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election. I the want to show you a clip from

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an interview I did on the Sunday Politics, don't worry, it is no the

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Alex Jones. This was an interview. George Osborne is going to announce

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his cap in two weeks time. Our plan is to include it.

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So pension spending would be included in the welfare cap? That's

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our plan. A straightforward answer. We were

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taken back because we don't often get them. Since then Labour said

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they would keep the pensions triple-lock which is a way of

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ensuring by various metrics that pensions go up by a descent amount,

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if not by one metric you chose a higher metric. Of how can you have

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pensions capped and support the triple-lock? Well, because pensions

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are going to be part of your long-term fiscal planning and you

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can set pensioners policy, but you need to have regard to the long-term

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fiscal sustainability. So the cap doesn't preclude you from having

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policy specific in relation to aspects of Government expenditure,

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but in that sense, that's the job of the Government which is to manage

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both your short-term commitments against your long-term

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sustainability. Mr Miliband told us the caps for the

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first three years, he with would cap welfare spending over three years.

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If you put a cap on welfare spending and it includes pensions, but you

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are obliged to increase pensions by about 2. 3%, if you are hitting the

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cap and you are obliged to increase pensions by it. T.5%, pensions are

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not included in the cap and you can have one or the other? The first

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year, the election will take place in year. Ed said we would accept the

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starting point of the Conservative numbers for the first year. In terms

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of the three year cap that follows, there is a process we will follow,

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not least to hear what George Osborne says when he brings forward

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his own cap, but we will set how to reconcile commitments that we make

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in relation to pensions and other areas of public expenditure in due

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course with a longer term fiscal horizon.

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Let me try one more time. I don't understand how you can say, " We

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will cap welfare spend ing and pensions will be included, but we

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will increase pensions by 2. 5% even if it means breaking the capmed."

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Well, in what circumstances did Ed say even if it means breaking the

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cap. He said we hold on to the triple-lock at present.

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:10:49.:10:52.

At present? Well, that remains our policy. We will set out our policy

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position in the manifesto. Part of the manifesto will contain that cap

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which will take a three year horizon and these can be reconciled.

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You haven't reconciled this clear conflict and you will do that by the

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manifesto? You are not in a position to say individually as a policy,

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include policies on pensions. Michael Howard, there is pit falls

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in the road Labour is going down because all politicians are

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frightened of the grey vote because people vote, the older they are. But

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actually, isn't Labour being more realistic in saying if we are going

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to have overall caps, we are going to reduce public spending and old

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aged pensioners will have to be included? Well, Labour's numbers

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don't add up for the reasons you explained. But what Ed Balls and Ed

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Miliband have said, there is an interesting article in the Times in

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which what they have said has been analysed and says they have accepted

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the fundamental Conservative argument that you can't spend your

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way out of these difficulties. You can't spend your way out of the

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downturn and everything they have been saying over the last three

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years is nonsense when they have opposed every cut put forward.

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Yous don't agree. That's not an authoritarian voice on

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Labour's policies. Chief Executive of the NHS is up in

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front of the Public Accounts Committee today. He looks to have a

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tough time. Figures obtained by Steve Barclay, show hospital chefs

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paid a total of �2 million to 52 people in secret severance payments

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to whistle-blowers. This could contradicts sir David's evidence to

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the committee previously when he said he only knew of a one off

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payment. Well, joining me from the lobby is the MP who uncovered the

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figures, Steve Barclay. Thank you for coming on to the programme,

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Steve Barclay. Is this incompetence or conspiracy on the part of Sir

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David Nicholson? Well, it begs the question either he should have known

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and why didn't he? His deputy, lots of hospitals making these payments

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were aware of this. So why did the boss not know? Or he did know and it

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is even more worrying because it appears he hasn't been straight with

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Parliament and when he appeared before the committee last time he

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said he wasn't aware the garaway Walker case was a whistle-blower

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case and he had to correct his evidence because he admitted he had

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been told. Do you think this is a case hes can't remember? Well, it is

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not just that because he gave a commitment to investigate this and

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what the Department of Health statement last night confirmed was

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despite telling Parliament he would take this seriously, he would

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investigate whether indeed it was a one off, he did nothing about it. So

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why didn't he investigate it when he gave a commitment to part to do so?

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And on what basis did he ignore that undertaking. Jeremy Hunt decided the

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gagging clauses are going to be no longer, but in this particular case

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these were judicially mediated settlements and they go outside the

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remit of what the Government was talking about banning. How big do

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you think the problem is? Secretary of State deserves credit

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because he has put these within the remit. The loophole has been closed.

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Oh, he has? Jeremy Hunt acted quickly. The statement for

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Parliament which was not followed up. But the culture associated with

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Sir David Nicholson. The 2 million spds is a -- the �2 million is the

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tip of the iceberg. Seven hospitals are refusing to say how much they

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paid out through the secret payments. So the Secretary of State

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deserves credit. If we want to change the cull do you remember of

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the NHS -- culture of the NHS and have a culture where people are open

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and willing to speak out on patient safety issues, we have to look at

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the behaviour of Sir David and whether he is right for that new

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culture. Do you think his position is

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untenable? I thought it was untenable after Mid Staffs and I

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thought he should have gone then. He is in today before Parliament for

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the NHS IT programme, a programme that wasted billions of pounds of

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your viewers money and he was not just the accounting officer for that

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programme, he was the senior responsible owner for it. There is a

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catalogue of errors linked to Sir David and if we are going to change

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the culture of the NHS and take on board the lessons on Mid Staffs and

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the question is, is he the right man for another year to remain in his

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post? Steve Barclay, thank you very much. Michael Howard, should he just

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go now? I think we should wait to see what and says he has, if any, to

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the questions that Steve Barclay has eloquently post. Very serious

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questions, very serious situation. I have no idea what Sir David

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Nicholson would say in answer to those questions but we will see what

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he does. The two choices are either he didn't know and he should have

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known or he is part of the conspiracy. Let's wait and see what

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he says? What is your reaction? I agree with Michael, he should be

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able to give his cancers on the substantive issue on whether public

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money should be spent in terms of gagging orders --his cancers. We

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tried through the NHS Constitution to write in the prevention of this,

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but at the Francis report touched on this, at a local level and in

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individual trusts, there was a culture where this was acceptable,

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and there was a case put to us for Jeremy Hunt to look at how

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individual trusts are open to this and how much is being paid. Is it

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rather he didn't know about it and contradicted his own evidence? If

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you don't know, you don't know, you don't say there was a 1-off payment

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and then it is subsequently revealed there were 52 of these sorts of

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orders. Should the man at the top who presided over this, should he

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stay? I believe in the old maxim that she should afford somebody the

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opportunity to and set those questions before passing judgement.

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He will be before Parliament, let's hear what he has to say.

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Thank you. Now, William Hague, the Foreign Secretary, has been meeting

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the US Secretary of State John Kerry today to discuss the conflict in

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Syria. The UK Government has said President Bashar Assad must give up

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power to bring an end to the violence that has seen 80,000 people

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killed in the last two years and want to pave the way for a political

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transition. Washington is still struggling to organise a peace

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conference and President Obama has at his team to look at all the

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options. Michael Howard, should the West on the Syrian rebels? -- arm.

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It is a desperately difficult situation. I think we sometimes have

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to recognise that not every problem has a solution. I am not in a

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position to make the judgements that are necessary to give a yes or no

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answer to that question. I think William Hague was right to press for

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a European embargo to be lifted, so that arming the rebels is an

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option, and there may well be circumstances in which it would be

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right to use that option. Whether those circumstances have yet arisen,

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I just am not, I think, qualified to judge. It is a very, very difficult

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situation and the risk of broadening this conflict, of bringing in other

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states in the region, of having a kind of proxy war between Russia and

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the West, the risks are enormous, so this is an area where we have to be

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cautious. It might at some point be the right option but I can't judge

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whether we have reached that point. Your position, Douglas Alexander, is

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that we should not on the rebels. I'm not convinced by the arguments

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the Government has made. This is an appalling situation of human

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suffering and there are no easy options for William Hague, or in

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Washington back here in London, so I do not question the motives of the

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Government but I do the judgement of lifting the arms embargo at that

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point, because we were weeks away from this Geneva two conference, as

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it is called. One of the consequences of lifting the embargo

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is uncertainty in the mind of the rebels, if they don't turn up at the

:19:32.:19:37.

peace conference, they will be unable to secure Western arms in the

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future. There are concerns from the Russians themselves, and the kind of

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questions that we need and insisted that we have not heard, how can we

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guarantee these weapons and do we know the intents and the tactics of

:19:53.:19:59.

the rebels? How do we avoid a proxy war with Russia or Iran, fought out

:19:59.:20:02.

in Syria? And even worse to contemplate, sectarian war across

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the Middle East, because there is a sectarian aspect of this conflict

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now. But already they are worried in Jordan. Israel is beginning to feel

:20:12.:20:19.

the heat on the border. So we are there, aren't we? So I struggle to

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answer the question that the Prime Minister will need to answer in

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these circumstances, which is how will the provision of more

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sophisticated weaponry de escalate rather than escalate the conflict?

:20:30.:20:34.

And nobody doubts the seriousness of the situation. I have for many

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months argued that ultimately Russia is the key to this. Resident Assad

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is hugely reliant on Russia, not just in terms of diplomatic support

:20:45.:20:50.

but military as well. So I welcome the steps that John Kerry has taken

:20:50.:20:54.

in flying to Moscow. At the end of the day, if were going to see this

:20:54.:20:56.

conference happen, we need about the Russians and the Americans

:20:57.:21:00.

delivering both sides to this conflict. But people like you have

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been saying that for over two years and while you have gone on and on

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about diplomacy, it has failed 100% and 80,000 people have died. What do

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you say to a Syrian family that have been beleaguered by the dictator

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President Assad that you are not going to help them defend

:21:17.:21:24.

themselves? Syria is awash with arms at the moment, the idea that there

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are no weapons for the rebels in Syria is not true. You have to ask

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the question, do you want to be providing service to and missiles,

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anti-tank artillery and other equipment to a group of rebels --

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surface to air missiles push up today's good guys can all too easily

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come -- become tomorrow's wrongdoers. There seems to be two

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problems about sending arms, one is what Douglas Alexander just said, we

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are not sure who they might end up with and the second, I would suggest

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that the Kremlin has made it quite clear they will match whatever we

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send. Those difficulties are there. So I think there is only one point

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we all agree on, and we're not going to answer, the only point I disagree

:22:20.:22:25.

with Douglas on is I still think it was right to lift the EU embargo so

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the option remains, because all of the difficulties to which you refer

:22:29.:22:34.

are absolutely there and they are horrendous, but this is a rapidly

:22:34.:22:39.

changing situation, and there may be circumstances in which helping

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supply arms, some arms, to the rebels would be the right thing to

:22:43.:22:48.

do. I am not saying we have reached it yet. What would those

:22:48.:22:53.

circumstances be? Give me a sense, in your mind, what they would be?

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Hypothetically, you could arrive at a situation where a particular need

:22:58.:23:01.

was identified for a particular set of weapons which would actually help

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the rebels from being crushed. I am not saying it will exist, but it

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could. Let's follow the logic of that position. Even if Bashar

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al-Assad goes, and we all want him to go, the likely scenario is the

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continuation of the Civil War and the next chapter beginning. In that

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sense, we cannot get away from the fact that the only way you can have

:23:23.:23:26.

a sustainable Syrian state is ultimately through politics. The

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only way you can have any hope of getting to that politics is to bring

:23:30.:23:35.

the external factors in. You may never get to back to politics until

:23:35.:23:44.

the civil war has run its course. Bashar al-Assad was to go, it may

:23:44.:23:50.

transform the situation. It may not bring complete peace over tonight --

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overnight, but it may bring about change. But the Alawite will just

:23:54.:24:03.

fight the dead? They nowhere to go. I would hope they wouldn't. I am not

:24:03.:24:06.

saying all of the problems would disappear overnight, but it would be

:24:06.:24:14.

a huge change. It is a really difficult situation. It really is.

:24:14.:24:21.

He is rich, he is good-looking and they call him the Special one. Jose

:24:21.:24:25.

Mourinho arrived back at Chelsea this week and said he wanted a new

:24:25.:24:30.

nickname, the Happy one. But answer me this, is he really happy? How

:24:30.:24:37.

much more happy would he be with this? Yes, with this mug. You could

:24:37.:24:44.

look tanned, gorgeous, Portuguese and happiness. I think you need to

:24:44.:24:49.

read it over your head! There are still some copy in it. All you need

:24:49.:24:55.

to do is listen carefully to Jo. You can enter the Guess The Year

:24:55.:24:58.

competition in a minute but let's see if you can remember when this

:24:58.:25:08.
:25:08.:25:17.

North Sea gas. The one pure stroke of luck the British economy has had

:25:17.:25:27.
:25:27.:25:30.

in a century. Drop out of school, school education

:25:30.:25:40.
:25:40.:26:19.

Per pound here in Britain and in # This is dedicated to the one I

:26:19.:26:24.

love. To be in with a chance of winning

:26:24.:26:29.

the Daily Politics mug, send your entry into the email address. You

:26:29.:26:35.

can see the full terms and conditions on the website.

:26:35.:26:40.

It is coming up to midday, let's have a look at the Big Ben. It is a

:26:40.:26:43.

grey day in London, it has been all week. Prime ministers questions is

:26:43.:26:52.

on its way and Nick Robinson is welcomed back. I noticed that they

:26:52.:26:58.

are now raising this issue of select committee chairman, which has come

:26:58.:27:06.

up because of Tim Yeo's position. Putting aside the Sunday Times

:27:06.:27:09.

sting, hasn't it has been the case that this man who chairs the

:27:09.:27:12.

renewable energy committee of the House of Commons also has full

:27:12.:27:17.

directorships in renewable energy. You may say that. I couldn't

:27:17.:27:20.

possibly comment. That is exactly what the Speaker and other people

:27:20.:27:24.

have been talking about, which is is it right that select committee

:27:25.:27:28.

chairs, who have a higher status than I did a few years ago, they get

:27:29.:27:33.

paid as well, is it right they should have external interests? It

:27:33.:27:39.

is not against the rules, but it is a conflict of interest. These are

:27:39.:27:42.

influential figures both in the questioning they can do people in

:27:42.:27:50.

business and in public life and the of subjects that are for select

:27:50.:27:56.

committees -- the choice of subjects. We are likely to see a

:27:56.:28:01.

change, Tim Yeo may be the last to have that many business interest.

:28:01.:28:04.

the last Labour Government, John McFall was chairman of the Treasury

:28:04.:28:09.

select committee, one of the most powerful select committees in the

:28:09.:28:13.

House of Commons. If he had been a director of Goldman Sachs at the

:28:13.:28:17.

same time, it would have been rather strange. Perfectly reasonably, it

:28:17.:28:24.

would have seemed strange. Having previously served as a minister, the

:28:24.:28:30.

ministerial code is extremely tough in terms of conflict and everything

:28:30.:28:33.

else and my senses the Speaker and others may look at the code of

:28:33.:28:40.

conduct the ministers, given the significant status and influence of

:28:40.:28:45.

chairs. Michael? I hope it is not an overreaction. I think the key point

:28:45.:28:49.

is there shouldn't be outside interest related to the select

:28:49.:28:52.

committee. The chairman of the select committee is a director of a

:28:52.:28:55.

company that has nothing to do with his select committee, I don't see

:28:56.:28:59.

anything wrong with that as long as it is properly declared, but I do

:28:59.:29:02.

think it is difficult for the chairman of a select committee, or

:29:03.:29:05.

perhaps even a member of a select committee, to have an outside

:29:05.:29:12.

interest which is directly related to that. And for which they are

:29:12.:29:19.

remunerated? Well, the members are not the chairman. No, I mean

:29:19.:29:21.

remunerated by the outside interest. Prime Minister's Questions coming

:29:22.:29:26.

up, we don't have many these days, two in a row, like a London bus!

:29:26.:29:32.

are being spoiled. I think it will be intriguing to see if it is the

:29:32.:29:36.

opposition leader's questions, David Cameron used the last one to try and

:29:36.:29:38.

question Ed Miliband on child benefits and what Labour were saying

:29:38.:29:43.

about their spending priorities. I won't be surprised if the Prime

:29:43.:29:46.

Minister raises the interview you did with the shadow Chancellor Ed

:29:46.:29:51.

Balls in which he seemed to suggest he would cap pension spending. The

:29:51.:29:57.

Tories see that as an own goal and I think what David Cameron would like

:29:57.:29:59.

to exploit is that, with unemployment going down, he will

:29:59.:30:07.

raise the fact that one of the reasons it might be under control is

:30:07.:30:14.

the fact that people are taking a real hit in their pay packets and

:30:14.:30:16.

people are having their real income squeezed and their standards of

:30:16.:30:23.

living squeezed, and therefore it might not be so such good news for

:30:23.:30:26.

people. It is difficult for politicians on the right and the

:30:26.:30:34.

left, to say we should have more rise in wages, but there might be

:30:34.:30:36.

more unemployment. Or people should actually take a cut in living

:30:37.:30:42.

standards. But more people will be in jobs, it is a Catch-22. It is,

:30:42.:30:51.

but Labour will want to say, that is hurting people and if there are

:30:51.:30:56.

additional things Government are doing, row prices and energy prices

:30:56.:31:03.

and so on, which are adding to that sense of a squeeze on peoples

:31:03.:31:07.

standards of living, that is uncomfortable for them and bad for

:31:07.:31:17.
:31:17.:31:20.

incompetent management of the NHS, 256,000 patients were forced to wait

:31:20.:31:24.

in the back of ambulances as accident and imagine departments

:31:24.:31:28.

couldn't admit them. Why does the Prime Minister think the best way to

:31:28.:31:34.

deal with this is to fine hospitals �90 million for his Government's

:31:34.:31:39.

failure? But what this Government is doing is putting �12. 7 billion

:31:39.:31:43.

extra into the NHS, money that would be cut by the party opposite and

:31:43.:31:46.

because of that extra money and because of the reforms, waiting

:31:46.:31:52.

times are down, waiting times for inpatients and outpatients are both

:31:52.:31:56.

down, hospital acquired infections are down, a mixed sex wards have

:31:56.:32:06.
:32:06.:32:14.

been abolished in our NHS, that's a record we can be proud of.

:32:14.:32:17.

INAUDIBLE Can he confirm that the Conservative

:32:17.:32:27.
:32:27.:32:33.

Party's commitment to renegotiation and a referendum and has he...

:32:33.:32:34.

and a referendum and has he... and a referendum and has he...

:32:34.:32:43.

INAUDIBLE On behalf of the whole House can I

:32:43.:32:48.

welcome my honourable friend back to the House of Commons? And it is good

:32:48.:32:51.

to see him making a strong recovery and being in such strong voice

:32:51.:32:56.

today, as well, Mr Speaker. He makes an important point, on this side of

:32:56.:33:03.

the House, well in this party, we are committed in an in/out

:33:03.:33:06.

referendum before the end of 2017, but there has been a staggering

:33:06.:33:09.

silence from the party opposite. Half of the Shadow Cabinet support a

:33:09.:33:14.

referendum and the other half the don't. Well, they will have their

:33:14.:33:20.

chance on 5th July, they can turn up and vote for a referendum in the

:33:20.:33:23.

United Kingdom. THE SPEAKER: Mr Ed Miliband.

:33:23.:33:28.

On Syria, the Prime Minister has our support to use the G 8 to push all

:33:28.:33:33.

members to provide humanitarian assistance to alleviate the crisis

:33:33.:33:37.

that is happening there, but on the arms embargo, he said last week and

:33:37.:33:42.

I quote "if we help to tip the balance in that way, there is a

:33:42.:33:47.

greater chance of political transition succeeding." Given that

:33:47.:33:50.

Russia seems ready to supply more weapons to Syria, does the Prime

:33:50.:33:54.

Minister think it is in any sense realistic for a strategy of tipping

:33:54.:33:59.

the balance to work? Well, first of all, can I thank him for raising

:33:59.:34:04.

this issue and say he is right, we should use the G 8 to try and bring

:34:04.:34:07.

pressure on all sides to bring about what we all want in this House which

:34:07.:34:12.

is a peace conference, a peace process and a move towards a

:34:12.:34:16.

transitional Government in Syria. I am delighted to tell the House

:34:16.:34:21.

President Putin will be coming in advance of the he G 8 for meeting in

:34:21.:34:23.

Downing Street when we can discuss this. It is important because we

:34:23.:34:28.

have recognised that the Syrian national opposition are legitimate

:34:28.:34:32.

spokes people for the Syria people. It is important we help them. We

:34:32.:34:36.

give them technical assistance and training and advice and assistancele

:34:36.:34:41.

all those things we are doing and that does tip the balance to make

:34:41.:34:45.

sure that President Assad can see he cannot which this by military means

:34:45.:34:49.

alone and he should be at the negotiations which should take place

:34:49.:34:54.

for a transitional Government. My question was specifically on the

:34:54.:34:57.

liftings of the arms embargo and the supply of weapons to the Syrian

:34:57.:35:03.

rebels. How, last week, he also told this House, and I quote, " Clr

:35:03.:35:08.

safeguards to ensure that any such equipment would only be supplied for

:35:08.:35:13.

the protection of civilians." Can he tell us what safeguards those are?

:35:13.:35:16.

And how in Syria, they would be enforced? Well, first of all, let me

:35:16.:35:22.

try and say again about the arms embargo, the point about lifting the

:35:22.:35:25.

arms embargo which applied to the both the regime and the official

:35:25.:35:29.

Syrian opposition is to send a message about our intentions and

:35:29.:35:34.

about our views to President Assad, but we have not made a decision to

:35:34.:35:41.

supply the Syrian opposition reque -- with weapons, we are giving them

:35:41.:35:45.

advice and technical help and we have systems in place to answer his

:35:45.:35:49.

second question to make sure that sort of non-lethal equipment like

:35:49.:35:51.

transport and things like that doesn't get into the wrong hands. Of

:35:51.:35:56.

course, we do. THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband.

:35:56.:36:00.

things. Look, first of all, we all support the idea that he we should

:36:00.:36:07.

focus on the peace conference and making the peace conference happen.

:36:07.:36:11.

The Government has put its energy into the lifting of the arms embargo

:36:11.:36:16.

and not in the peace conference. I quoted hisses words, no the about

:36:16.:36:21.

non-lethal equipment, but about the supply of lethal equipment. Now, he

:36:21.:36:25.

gave an assurance to this House, in the circumstances of supplying

:36:25.:36:29.

lethal equipment there would be safeguards and the question was what

:36:29.:36:32.

would those safeguards be and I didn't hear an answer and maybe he

:36:32.:36:37.

can tell us that and will he when he replies confirm that if he takes a

:36:37.:36:41.

decision to arm the rebels in Syria, there will be a vote of this House

:36:41.:36:45.

on a substantive motion in Government time with a recall of

:36:45.:36:51.

Parliament from recess if necessary? First of all, on this issue of the

:36:51.:36:55.

peace conference, we all want to see a peace conference come about, the

:36:55.:37:00.

question is how are we most likely to put pressure on the parties to

:37:00.:37:03.

attend the peace conference? Going back to the first thing he said

:37:03.:37:06.

about the Russian decision to arm the regime, the Russian regime has

:37:06.:37:11.

been arming this regime for decades and frankly, it is naive to believe

:37:11.:37:17.

anything else. That, I think, is important. On the issue of

:37:17.:37:20.

safeguards, we are not supplying the opposition with weapons. We are

:37:20.:37:24.

supplying them with technical assistance and non-lethal equipment.

:37:24.:37:28.

We made no decision to supply the opposition with weapons, so that is

:37:28.:37:34.

the answer to that issue. On the issue of this House of Commons, as

:37:34.:37:38.

the Foreign Secretary made clear, as I have made clear, I have always

:37:38.:37:41.

believed in allowing the House of Commons to say -- a say on these

:37:41.:37:45.

issues. I think that was right when it came to Iraq. It was right when

:37:45.:37:50.

we made the decision to help the opposition in Libya and it would be

:37:50.:37:56.

right in the future for that to it to happen. We have made no decision

:37:56.:38:00.

to arm the rebels in Syria. On the Government plan to double the

:38:00.:38:05.

size of our reserve forces, has the Prime Minister considered the role

:38:05.:38:09.

retired Ghurkhas might play in this? How they are allowed to settle here,

:38:09.:38:13.

many gush cas said they would welcome an ongoing connection with

:38:13.:38:17.

the British Army, but there is no tradition of recruiting them. It

:38:17.:38:25.

won't happen by magic, would he authorise an initiative to cre cut

:38:25.:38:29.

them? One of the p ways we can build up this larger reserve we want to

:38:29.:38:34.

see funded and fully equipped at 30,000, is to make sure those who

:38:34.:38:38.

served in the regular Army, that we have better opportunities for them

:38:38.:38:43.

to serve in the reserves and the point he made about the gur das cas,

:38:43.:38:46.

I am -- Ghurkhas, I am sure the Defence Secretary will look at that

:38:47.:38:51.

and see what can be donement of I don't know if the Prime Minister

:38:51.:38:54.

watched Panorama's programme on Monday night, but I'm sure he will

:38:54.:39:00.

be aware of the subject. The programme confirmed what many of

:39:00.:39:03.

youing us already knew that thousands of people in this country

:39:03.:39:08.

have been subjected to blacklisting. It has been compared to McCarthyism.

:39:08.:39:12.

I think it is worse Than that. It is secretive and it is behind closed

:39:12.:39:18.

doors and many people who run a -- who are on a blacklist don't know

:39:18.:39:22.

they are on a blacklist. Can I ask the Prime Minister to call for an

:39:22.:39:28.

urgent inquiry into this practise which I refer to not as McCartism,

:39:28.:39:31.

but as McAlpinism. I didn't see the Panorama on Monday

:39:31.:39:35.

night. I will ask for a report on it, but the Government not only does

:39:35.:39:44.

not support blacklisting, but has taken action against it.

:39:44.:39:49.

Can I thank the Prime Minister for his recent visit to my constituency

:39:49.:39:55.

to support the furniture making industry. The hard-working staff he

:39:55.:39:59.

made are best helped into these tough times by protecting their

:39:59.:40:04.

pensions and capping benefits rather than by protecting benefits and

:40:04.:40:11.

cutting pensions as the party opposite would do. I well remember

:40:11.:40:14.

my visit to my honourable friend's constituency. What people want to

:40:14.:40:18.

know in this country is we're going to cap welfare and get on top of

:40:18.:40:21.

welfare bills, but protect pensioners who have worked hard all

:40:21.:40:28.

their lives and I've done a little bit of due diligence on the the

:40:28.:40:31.

party opposite's policy. They announced they wanted a welfare cap

:40:31.:40:35.

and I thought that's interesting, that's progress. Would they cap the

:40:35.:40:41.

welfare bill for those in work? they would not. Would they cap

:40:41.:40:45.

housing benefit? No, they wouldn't. The one thing they want to cap

:40:45.:40:51.

pensions is pension -- the one thing theys want to cap is pensions. Of

:40:51.:40:54.

more of the something for nothing culture that got this country in a

:40:54.:41:04.

mess in the first place. THE SPEAKER: Mr Ed Miliband.

:41:04.:41:07.

Speaker, today's fall in unemployment of 5,000 is welcome.

:41:07.:41:13.

But can the Prime Minister explain why today's figures also show that

:41:13.:41:16.

three years into his Government, living standards are continuing to

:41:16.:41:20.

fall? Well, first of all, I think it is

:41:21.:41:24.

worth actually announcing to the House what the unemployment figures

:41:25.:41:28.

today show because they show employment, the number of people in

:41:28.:41:33.

work, in our country going up. They show unemployment going down. And

:41:33.:41:37.

they show, I know the party opposite don't want to hear good news, but I

:41:38.:41:43.

think it is important we hear it. And the claimant count, the number

:41:43.:41:46.

of people qlaming unemployment benefit -- claiming unemployment

:41:47.:41:50.

benefit has fallen for the seventh month in a row. What is interesting

:41:50.:41:55.

is over the last year, while we've lost 100,000 jobs in the public

:41:55.:42:00.

sector, we've gained five times that amount in private sector employment.

:42:00.:42:05.

The figures do show some increase in wages, but obviously, real wages

:42:05.:42:12.

have been under huge pressure ever since the boom and bust under which

:42:12.:42:15.

his presided. Bau what is good for people is that under this

:42:15.:42:19.

Government, we're cutting their income tax this year.

:42:19.:42:23.

THE SPEAKER: Ed Miliband. There speaker, he is into his fourth year

:42:23.:42:26.

as Prime Minister and his excuse for falling living standards is don't

:42:26.:42:30.

blame me, I am only the Prime Minister! It is not good enough and

:42:30.:42:36.

if he doesn't understand that because of his failure to get growth

:42:36.:42:40.

in the economy, wages are falling for ordinary people. He wants to

:42:40.:42:45.

tell them they are better off, butle actually they are -- but they are

:42:45.:42:49.

worse off. Can he confirm that today's figures show after

:42:49.:42:54.

inflation, since he came to power, people's wages have fallen on

:42:54.:43:00.

average by over �1300 a year? you might have noticed the figures

:43:00.:43:05.

announced by the institute Institute for Fiscal Studies are from 2008

:43:05.:43:12.

when he was sitting in the Cabinet. While he was Energy Secretary, the

:43:12.:43:16.

economy got smaller. This shrank month after month after month. Under

:43:16.:43:21.

this Government, we see over 1. 25 million more private sector jobs. A

:43:21.:43:26.

good growth in private sector employment this year. That is what

:43:26.:43:30.

is happening. Of course, living standards are under pressure and

:43:30.:43:36.

that is why we are freeze freezing council tax. Look, the Shadow

:43:36.:43:42.

Chancellor is shouting away as ever. Perhaps...

:43:42.:43:47.

THE SPEAKER: Excessive noise in the chamber. Members must not shout at

:43:47.:43:52.

the Prime Minister anymore that anyone should shout at the Leader of

:43:52.:43:57.

the Opposition. There are 1. 25 million more private sector jobs

:43:57.:44:00.

under this Government and that's a good record.

:44:00.:44:04.

No answer from this Prime Minister on the living standards crisis that

:44:04.:44:07.

is facing families up and down the country. And you know, it is no

:44:07.:44:11.

wonder what his side are saying about him. This is what the

:44:12.:44:15.

honourable member for Leicestershire north-west wrote about him at the

:44:15.:44:19.

weekend. I know they don't want to hear it, it is like being in an

:44:19.:44:23.

aeroplane. The pilot doesn't know how to land it. We can either do

:44:23.:44:29.

something about it or sit back, watch the inflight movies and wait

:44:29.:44:33.

for the inevitable." I couldn't have put it better myself about this

:44:33.:44:41.

Prime Minister. The reality is this - day in, day out, what people

:44:41.:44:48.

see... Just calm down. Just calm down. Day in, day, the crimson tide

:44:48.:44:53.

is back. What people see is prices rising, wages falling, while the

:44:54.:44:58.

Prime Minister tells them they are better off. Hes claims the economy

:44:58.:45:01.

is healing, but for ordinary families, life is getting harder.

:45:01.:45:08.

They are worse under the Tories. Only someone who wants to talk down

:45:08.:45:14.

our economy could pick a day like today. More people in work.

:45:14.:45:17.

Unemployment down. Youth unemployment down. The claimant

:45:17.:45:22.

count down, not one word of respect for that good agenda on jobs. Now,

:45:22.:45:30.

he talks about aeroplanes, he talks about aeroplanes, the former Home

:45:30.:45:33.

Secretary, never mind getting on aeroplanes, this is what he said

:45:33.:45:36.

about the right honourable gentleman's leadership. He said

:45:36.:45:42.

this. "We are going nowhere. He hasn't got on the aeroplane because

:45:42.:45:52.
:45:52.:45:53.

he hasn't got a clue. Last December, the whole lot

:45:53.:45:58.

Shropshire welcomed the Government support for a new direct rail link

:45:58.:46:04.

from Shropshire to London. However, this week, network rail have blocked

:46:04.:46:09.

virgin's bid. Does the Prime Minister agree with me that Network

:46:09.:46:16.

Rail should not get in the way of Shropshire people and economic

:46:16.:46:21.

progress. We want to see more direct links like the one who speaks and

:46:21.:46:26.

more direct links to Lancashire and Blackpool. One of the issues the

:46:26.:46:33.

rail network is battling with is a short bus of capacity and that will

:46:33.:46:36.

bring more capacity to make more of these direct links possible and I

:46:36.:46:38.

was discussing this with the transport secretary yesterday and we

:46:38.:46:44.

should make progress. Last week, the Prime Minister could not confirm

:46:44.:46:47.

that taxpayers would not subsidised foreign buyers property in the UK.

:46:47.:46:52.

Perhaps he could instead clarify whether his help to buy scheme will

:46:53.:47:00.

see taxpayers help fund purchases of second homes on holiday cottages?

:47:00.:47:03.

Let me try and give the honourable lady some satisfaction. First of

:47:03.:47:08.

all, this scheme is for people's only home, it will have a mechanism

:47:08.:47:12.

in place to make sure that is the case. The second thing is, of

:47:12.:47:19.

course, which is important, is that in order to take part in this

:47:19.:47:29.
:47:29.:47:31.

scheme, you have to have a As a former pensions manager, I was proud

:47:31.:47:39.

that this Government announce... THE SPEAKER: This is very

:47:39.:47:44.

discourteous, let's see what the honourable gentleman has to say.

:47:44.:47:52.

Thank you Mister Speaker. As a former pensions minister, I was very

:47:52.:47:54.

proud when this Government introduced a triple lock on the

:47:54.:48:00.

state pension which increased by �234 in its first year to every

:48:00.:48:03.

pensioner in the land. Does the Prime Minister share my concern that

:48:03.:48:07.

under the shadow Chancellor's plans to cut or cap pensions, all of our

:48:07.:48:12.

pensioners will lose that increase and their standard of living will

:48:12.:48:17.

fall sharply? I think my honourable friend is absolutely right. What we

:48:17.:48:20.

have done under this Government is but a cap on welfare that families

:48:20.:48:23.

can receive but have been as generous as we can with pensioners

:48:23.:48:26.

who have worked hard during their lives and want to have dignity and

:48:26.:48:31.

security in old age, that is why we have the triple lock. And because we

:48:31.:48:34.

now know that the party opposite want to cut the pension, because

:48:34.:48:39.

they are putting a cap on pensions but not welfare, just this morning,

:48:39.:48:45.

the shadow Foreign Secretary was on television this morning challenged

:48:45.:48:51.

about the triple lock and said it was their policy at present. At

:48:51.:48:55.

present. Given all of the U-turns we have had in the last week from the

:48:55.:49:01.

party opposite, I don't think that will last a very long. Wilbur Prime

:49:01.:49:07.

Minister congratulate Bolton Wanderers football club for doing

:49:07.:49:14.

the right thing by rejecting sponsorship from a payday loan firm?

:49:14.:49:21.

And will he also joining and do the right thing --join in and do the

:49:21.:49:24.

right thing and give local authorities the power to ban these

:49:24.:49:29.

predatory loan sharks from our high streets? I hear absolutely what he

:49:29.:49:33.

says and I wish Bolton Wanderers well for their future. What I would

:49:33.:49:37.

say we need to do is give more support to credit unions in this

:49:37.:49:40.

country and that is one of the best ways of addressing this whole

:49:40.:49:44.

problem of payday loans and payday lending. I also hope he will welcome

:49:44.:49:47.

the fact that over the last year, unemployment has fallen fastest in

:49:47.:49:55.

the north-west of our country. is National carers week, Wilbur

:49:55.:49:59.

Prime Minister join me in paying tribute -- Wilbur Prime Minister

:50:00.:50:04.

join the... THE SPEAKER: Order. If the session

:50:04.:50:14.
:50:14.:50:14.

has to be extended to accommodate the rights of members, it will be

:50:14.:50:18.

extended. Thank you, Mister Speaker. Wilbur

:50:18.:50:23.

Prime Minister join me in paying tribute to the huge commitment that

:50:23.:50:28.

carers make day in day out for caring for frail family members,

:50:28.:50:32.

friends and partners, often without financial assessment and sign up to

:50:32.:50:40.

the recommendations of Prepared To Care? I think the honourable member

:50:40.:50:44.

speaks for the whole house and the whole country in embracing

:50:44.:50:48.

Britain's carers, they did an amazing job and if they stopped, the

:50:48.:50:52.

cost to the taxpayer would be phenomenal, so we should do what we

:50:52.:50:55.

can to support our carers and make sure they get the proper respite

:50:55.:51:01.

breaks they need to carry on doing the wonderful work they do. Why have

:51:01.:51:04.

the numbers of supply teachers in secondary schools in the last year

:51:05.:51:12.

increased by a staggering 17%? not have the figures for that, but

:51:12.:51:17.

what I would say is that we have protected the amount of money that

:51:17.:51:20.

goes into schools per pupil so that schools do have the money to employ

:51:20.:51:28.

the teachers they need. Since 2010, unemployment and Brentford and I of

:51:28.:51:38.
:51:38.:51:40.

work has fallen by 6.9%. And youth unemployment has fallen by 19%. Does

:51:40.:51:47.

this not show that our economic plan is working? I think the honourable

:51:47.:51:51.

lady is absolutely right. We see today a growth in employment, a fall

:51:51.:51:56.

in youth unemployment and most importantly, yes, we are losing jobs

:51:56.:52:00.

in the public sector, because we had to make cuts to the public sector,

:52:00.:52:05.

but while we lost over 100,000 jobs in the last year, we have gained

:52:05.:52:09.

five times as many as that in the private sector. The shadow

:52:09.:52:12.

Chancellor as ever wants to give a running commentary. Let me just

:52:12.:52:16.

remind the House what he said, because I think this is one of the

:52:16.:52:20.

most important quotations in the last ten years of British politics.

:52:20.:52:22.

Quote-macro do I think the last Labour Government was profligate and

:52:22.:52:31.

spent too much? No, I don't think there is any evidence about". That

:52:31.:52:39.

phrase will be hung around his neck forever. 500 homes in my

:52:39.:52:43.

constituency were flooded in November. Residents in my

:52:43.:52:47.

constituency are terrified that their homes and businesses are now

:52:47.:52:50.

worthless because this Government has failed to replace the flood

:52:50.:52:55.

insurance scheme. It is also cutting over �200 million from flood defence

:52:55.:52:59.

works. Why is this Prime Minister selling my constituency down the

:52:59.:53:05.

river? I can give the honourable gentleman some welcome news, which

:53:05.:53:09.

is we had to extend the period of the scheme so we could continue

:53:09.:53:13.

negotiations, but I am confident that we will put in place a proper

:53:13.:53:16.

successor to that scheme and an announcement will be made quite

:53:16.:53:26.
:53:26.:53:29.

soon. The company in my constituency made lava lamps and have been making

:53:29.:53:33.

them for 50 years and make very large exports to Germany. They have

:53:33.:53:36.

run into a problem with a reclassification of the product and

:53:36.:53:39.

I wonder if I could send all of the information to the Prime Minister

:53:39.:53:45.

and end list his support for this very innovative company operating so

:53:45.:53:50.

well within our country? I am very happy to receive the information

:53:50.:53:54.

from my honourable friend. It is important that we get British

:53:54.:54:01.

exports up. If we move from one in five of our small businesses to one

:54:01.:54:11.
:54:11.:54:12.

in four exporter, that will wipe out the trade deficit. The accident and

:54:12.:54:15.

emergency at Ealing Hospital is one of four he is closing in north-west

:54:15.:54:19.

London, so I welcome the Health Secretary's review, but with waiting

:54:19.:54:27.

times at a nine-year high, ambulances being diverted and the

:54:27.:54:29.

risk of death, will he acknowledged that these closures are not a

:54:29.:54:37.

serious option if the NHS is safe in his hands? The point I would make,

:54:37.:54:46.

as he knows, the Health Secretary has asked the IRP to submit a full

:54:46.:54:51.

review of the proposals. Whatever decision is reached, these proposals

:54:51.:54:55.

are not due to a lack of central Government funding, because

:54:55.:54:59.

north-west London will receive �3.6 billion this year, that is �100

:54:59.:55:03.

million more than a year before, and if we had listened to the Labour

:55:03.:55:08.

Party, who said that more NHS spending was irresponsible, then his

:55:08.:55:18.
:55:18.:55:19.

hospitals will be having �100 million less. Will the the Prime

:55:19.:55:22.

Minister join me in congratulating the China Britain business Council

:55:22.:55:29.

and its inspirational vice-chairmen for organising a seminar which more

:55:29.:55:32.

than 60 businesses in Watford attended last Friday about exporting

:55:32.:55:37.

to China? I think they should be congratulated on this initiative.

:55:37.:55:42.

am very happy to extend my praises to the business Council. If we look

:55:42.:55:46.

at the evidence over the last few years, there is a significant

:55:46.:55:50.

increase of British exports to China and a big increase of Chinese direct

:55:50.:55:54.

investment into the UK, and all of this is welcome and we need to see

:55:54.:56:00.

it grow even further. Will the Prime Minister confirm that he understands

:56:00.:56:04.

the importance of the creative industries to the economy of this

:56:04.:56:08.

country, and that they need to be buttressed by adequate intellectual

:56:09.:56:14.

property rights? Is he also aware that his intellectual property

:56:14.:56:24.
:56:24.:56:29.

minister, that tourney handed sons of toil the fifth Viscount Younger

:56:29.:56:36.

of Leckie recently said in relation to Google, " I am very aware of

:56:36.:56:41.

their power, I am also very aware that they have access for whatever

:56:41.:56:50.

reason to higher levels at Number Ten than do I". Isn't that a

:56:50.:56:57.

disgraceful comment? THE SPEAKER: Order! Order! The

:56:57.:57:02.

honourable gentleman's question, which refers to a distinguished

:57:02.:57:05.

constituent of mine suffered from the disadvantage of being too long.

:57:05.:57:11.

The Prime Minister. First of all, I agree that the creative industries

:57:11.:57:14.

are very important for Britain's future. If we take the music

:57:14.:57:20.

industry, it has had a record year in terms of sales. One in every four

:57:20.:57:24.

album sold in Europe is made in the UK, and it is something we can be

:57:24.:57:29.

very proud of. We do have to get the intellectual property regime right,

:57:29.:57:32.

that is why we are legislating and we have taken action to extend the

:57:32.:57:36.

life of copyright protection to 75 years, which has been welcomed

:57:36.:57:39.

across the industry and I simply don't accept what he says about my

:57:39.:57:44.

ministers. Indeed, the minister most responsible for this is the

:57:44.:57:49.

honourable member for Wantage, whose father was a noble by Harold Wilson.

:57:49.:57:59.

So that doesn't fit. Will the Prime Minister join me in praising the

:57:59.:58:04.

hard work of the honourable member for South Holland and the deep

:58:04.:58:12.

things -- the things for ensuring that the kind of decisions taken at

:58:12.:58:16.

local level concerning wind turbines remain local. However, many of my

:58:16.:58:20.

constituents in south-east Cornwall are becoming increasingly concerned

:58:20.:58:23.

that our green fields are becoming solar fields. Should decisions

:58:23.:58:28.

regarding solar fields be subjected to the same planning laws as wind

:58:28.:58:34.

turbines? First of all, I join her in praising the excellent work done

:58:34.:58:43.

by The Right Honourable member, carried on by the Minister, The

:58:43.:58:47.

Right Honourable member for Sevenoaks, they have done a good job

:58:47.:58:53.

of bringing some sanity on the issue of onshore wind. On solar panels,

:58:53.:58:55.

this Government did substantially reduce the feed-in tariffs to make

:58:55.:59:03.

sure that this industry was not over subsidised, because all of these

:59:03.:59:09.

subsidies end up you will's bills. Glenfield Hospital has the second

:59:09.:59:13.

best survival rates for children's heart surgery in the country. Will

:59:13.:59:18.

the Prime Minister ensure that the quality of care, including survival

:59:18.:59:22.

rates, which is what matters most to parents, is central to any decision

:59:22.:59:27.

about the future of these services? I think the honourable lady is

:59:27.:59:30.

absolutely right. The Health Secretary will make an announcement

:59:30.:59:35.

shortly about the issues safe and secure, children's heart operations.

:59:35.:59:41.

We have to be frank that we cannot expect really technical surgery like

:59:41.:59:44.

children's heart operations to be carried out at every hospital in the

:59:44.:59:49.

country. As the parent of a desperately ill child wanting to get

:59:49.:59:51.

the best care for that child, you need to know you're getting

:59:51.:59:56.

something that is the world best for technical operations. You cannot get

:59:56.:00:00.

that everywhere but clearly the conclusion that this process,

:00:00.:00:03.

started in 2008, hasn't been carried out properly, so we need to make a

:00:03.:00:11.

restart. Is the Prime Minister aware that last year, Britain became an

:00:11.:00:20.

exporter of cars for the first time since 1976. If this trend continues,

:00:20.:00:26.

the UK will produce an all-time record of 20 million cars by 2017.

:00:26.:00:31.

Isn't this an example of a high value upscaling and putting the

:00:31.:00:35.

great back into British manufacturing and exports?

:00:36.:00:39.

honourable friend is absolutely right, this is a good example of a

:00:39.:00:43.

British industry that is succeeding. If you look at Honda, Nissan and

:00:43.:00:48.

Jaguar Land Rover, there is really good news in the automotive sector.

:00:48.:00:51.

What we now need to do is make sure we get behind that sector and

:00:51.:00:55.

encourage them to have as much as their supply chain onshore as

:00:55.:01:00.

possible. That is beginning to happen and I'm hoping the progress

:01:00.:01:10.
:01:10.:01:10.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 47 seconds

:01:10.:01:57.

change? After all of the talk of the last few weeks, the iron discipline

:01:57.:02:01.

we were going to hear about, the welfare cap they were telling us

:02:01.:02:11.
:02:11.:02:11.

about, test one, failure. avoidance is rightly at the heart of

:02:11.:02:15.

the G8 agenda, could my right honourable friend tell the House

:02:15.:02:18.

what advice he might have received on this issue from either the leader

:02:18.:02:25.

of the Labour Party or the international lobbying shadow

:02:25.:02:28.

Chancellor? It is this Government that is putting aggressive tax

:02:28.:02:32.

avoidance at the heart of the G8 agenda and what do we hear this week

:02:33.:02:37.

from the Labour Party? They give tax avoidance advice to their donors.

:02:37.:02:44.

That is what they have been doing. �700,000 of tax avoided because of

:02:44.:02:48.

what Labour advised their donor to do. He asked me to calm down and

:02:48.:02:51.

frankly I cannot, because this is money that ought to be going into

:02:51.:02:56.

the health service, into education, it ought to be going into training

:02:57.:03:02.

young people, so let me challenge him. Will you give the money back?

:03:02.:03:11.

Yes or no? Will you give... It is very simple. This is what the Labour

:03:11.:03:18.

leader said. In the Guardian, so it must be true. The 2nd of April. "

:03:18.:03:25.

tax avoidance is a terrible thing. He said that if everybody approaches

:03:25.:03:27.

their tax affairs as some of these companies have approached their tax

:03:28.:03:32.

affairs, we would not have health service. We would not have an

:03:32.:03:35.

education system. That is the shameful state of the Labour Party

:03:35.:03:45.
:03:45.:03:49.

today. This week is parents week, but the Prime Minister show support

:03:49.:03:53.

for the 7 million unpaid carers across the country and invest one

:03:54.:04:01.

billion from last year's underspend into social care, as we have placed

:04:01.:04:06.

we will do, so averting the Government made prices in a Andee

:04:06.:04:11.

and social care? We could start with the money from Labour's tax

:04:11.:04:15.

avoiding. That is money that should be going into the care system and

:04:15.:04:20.

into the National Health Service. This Government has put 12 points �7

:04:20.:04:27.

billion extra into our NHS. That is how we are supporting carers and

:04:27.:04:34.

hospitals -- club one 7 billion. She can have a word with her leader.

:04:34.:04:37.

we approach the 25th anniversary of the Piper Alpha disaster, will the

:04:37.:04:43.

Prime Minister join with me in recognising the challenges we face

:04:43.:04:47.

in continuing to bring oil and gas ashore from the North Sea, the

:04:47.:04:52.

skills and dedication of those who do it, and the paramount importance

:04:52.:04:55.

of safety in ensuring we can continue to exploit these

:04:55.:04:58.

resources? I certainly join my honourable friend in praising the

:04:58.:05:03.

North Sea oil and gas industry. It is a real jewel in the crown of the

:05:03.:05:07.

United Kingdom economy. I think what is encouraging is that this year, we

:05:07.:05:11.

are seeing a growth in production as a number of new fields and projects

:05:11.:05:16.

come on stream, but he is absolutely right to say that at all times,

:05:16.:05:26.
:05:26.:05:33.

safety and security are absolutely and on and on.

:05:33.:05:37.

Then Ed Miliband went on living standards and the fact they are

:05:37.:05:41.

still being squeezed. We have discussed that too. Ireland not sure

:05:41.:05:46.

what we are going to -- I am not sure what we are going to do for the

:05:46.:05:50.

next 25 minutes. The e-mails were on those subjects. On Syria, all three

:05:50.:05:55.

party leaders need to avoid unnecessary procast nation on Syria,

:05:55.:06:01.

the hottest place is in hell are reserved for those who in times of

:06:01.:06:05.

great moral crisis maintain their neutrality.

:06:05.:06:11.

This is from James. " We heard we would not interfere in Syria. Please

:06:11.:06:16.

do not arm these people. It will make things worse. Do we never

:06:16.:06:23.

learn?" Ian White Whitely, "The first clash was statesmanlike and

:06:23.:06:27.

the second clash was more like it. The flash of temper from David

:06:27.:06:30.

Cameron showed him under pressure on the xwhe. Xh Ed Miliband recovered

:06:30.:06:35.

from last week's disaster and won. There were no answers from David

:06:35.:06:39.

Cameron." Ed Miliband, this is from Helen Manning, "Ed Miliband would

:06:39.:06:46.

rather talk about Syria today, Ed Balls' faux pas at the weekend about

:06:46.:06:50.

pensions being capped. Even Ed Balls couldn't believe what his lips were

:06:50.:06:56.

saying by the look on his face." That's according to Helen. This is

:06:56.:07:01.

from Alan, item I am and sick and tired of hearing Conservative

:07:01.:07:03.

politicians making up that pensioners are hard workers and

:07:03.:07:09.

people receiving benefits are getting something fromming in --

:07:09.:07:16.

something for nothing. I worked hard as a children 's nurse until I

:07:16.:07:21.

became ill and I paid into the pot too." Le, the Prime Minister was

:07:21.:07:27.

watching the programme or at least one of his people were. The Prime

:07:28.:07:35.

Minister said, " We know the party opposite want to cut the pension."

:07:35.:07:40.

Douglas Alexander was on TV there are morning. That would be the Daily

:07:40.:07:46.

Politics! Challenged about the triple-lock, that would be me, he

:07:46.:07:52.

said, it was... Shall we go?He said the triple-lock was their policy at

:07:52.:07:56.

present. This is a the Prime Minister, quoting you saying at

:07:56.:08:00.

presentmed. Given all the U-turns we have had said the Prime Minister in

:08:00.:08:04.

the past week from the party opposite, I don't think at present

:08:04.:08:13.

it will last long. He is just trying to make mischief. The Prime Minister

:08:13.:08:19.

might have cate better served preparing his answers on Syria.

:08:19.:08:23.

Why did you say at present? Because you were implying the position has

:08:23.:08:27.

changed or was going to change and I was saying clearly our position

:08:27.:08:31.

remains the same. I challenged to you could reconcile

:08:31.:08:37.

having a cap on pensions spending and support for the triple-lock?

:08:37.:08:41.

is possible that you can set out specific policies in relation to

:08:41.:08:45.

pensions while recognising that you need over a longer time to have a

:08:46.:08:49.

fiscal framework thatting you can defend, explain and that keeps the

:08:49.:08:52.

public finances in order. But when you say the triple-lock is

:08:52.:08:57.

your policy at present, does that mean it could change? Well, it

:08:57.:09:01.

remains our policy. I believe it will remain our policy, but I'm not

:09:01.:09:06.

going to write a manifesto this morning, you wouldn't expect me to.

:09:06.:09:10.

We are committed to providing the same level of support that we have

:09:10.:09:14.

on many areas and we want to do that within that fiscal framework.

:09:14.:09:17.

It is the conversation that no one in politics wanted to happen for

:09:17.:09:22.

years. The driver of welfare costs in Britain are pensions. Pensioners

:09:22.:09:27.

don't want to hear it. People are the writing the e-mails as I speak

:09:27.:09:31.

telling me they paid all their lives, the thing that is

:09:31.:09:34.

unaffordable is the cost of old people. No one wants to talk about

:09:34.:09:38.

it, but it is true. There is more and more of them. The cost is going

:09:38.:09:44.

up. The triple-lock is costing them much, much money than they budgeted

:09:44.:09:54.

for. That's the lock that said that he pensions would rise either

:09:54.:10:00.

inflangs or 2. 5%. Remember the argument that Gordon Brown was

:10:00.:10:05.

locked in this argument with Barbara Castle and she was a fighter for

:10:05.:10:12.

pensioners rights whether the link that Margaret Thatcher broke between

:10:12.:10:17.

pensions and earnings should be restored. The coalition decided to

:10:17.:10:24.

go one step further, not just restoring the link with earnings.

:10:24.:10:30.

The problem they have got that they don't like talking about because it

:10:31.:10:37.

deep deeply -- it is deeply, deeply unpopular, this does look

:10:37.:10:40.

unaffordable. With the size of the population, the growing size of the

:10:40.:10:44.

elderly population. Michael Howard, what do you make of

:10:44.:10:48.

Douglas Alexander's formulation? The formulation of triple-lock at

:10:48.:10:54.

present? I don't think Nick is right in saying that no one wanted to talk

:10:54.:10:58.

xw this ard or do anything about. What the Government has done is

:10:58.:11:01.

raise the retirement age and that's an important element of this

:11:01.:11:06.

problem. And Mr Miliband mentioned that

:11:06.:11:12.

Labour would have to continue to look at this? The IFS produced

:11:12.:11:15.

figures today, the number of pensioners who are working. The

:11:15.:11:20.

number of people over 60. Four million people over 65 are

:11:21.:11:28.

working or have come back into work which is a record number? As I am a

:11:28.:11:32.

pensioner pensioner! I am still working. I disclose my interests...

:11:32.:11:38.

You are doing all these young people out of a job. Touch wood, stay

:11:38.:11:45.

vigorous in their 60s and 70s, it is a good thing. I think that's an

:11:45.:11:49.

important element and that's the Government doing something right.

:11:49.:11:55.

had a policy statement from the Prime Minister on the help to buy

:11:55.:12:00.

homes, but he has been criticised that it could be used to buy second

:12:00.:12:03.

homes or frorners to use it to buy homes. The Prime Minister said the

:12:03.:12:09.

scheme is for people's only home which I rather complicated, but he

:12:09.:12:13.

must mean that you can only have one home, you can't use it it for a

:12:13.:12:17.

second one. To take part in the scheme you have to have a credit

:12:17.:12:22.

record and a credit record in this country which I guess he is counting

:12:22.:12:26.

out people from abroad coming here to do this? When the Chancellor

:12:26.:12:30.

announced this in his Budget, the potential of a subsidy to people's

:12:30.:12:36.

mortgages up to purchases of �650,000. He was asked by Ed Balls,

:12:36.:12:42.

the Shadow Chancellor, "Are you going to use this to subsidise

:12:42.:12:46.

second homes?" You could see people's eyes lighting up and George

:12:46.:12:50.

Osborne hadn't got an even and week after week in Prime Minister's

:12:50.:12:53.

Questions David Cameron has not had an answer. They have used this

:12:53.:12:58.

formula of only home. I have been tweeting George Osborne's spokesman

:12:58.:13:03.

who seems to imply that have you had two homes you couldn't apply for it,

:13:03.:13:07.

not just buy a second home, you couldn't use it to apply for a new

:13:07.:13:13.

first home. You would be ruled out if there are two home-owners or a

:13:13.:13:17.

three or four home-owners, you couldn't apply for this or indeed

:13:17.:13:20.

somebody from a... The devil will be in the detail.

:13:20.:13:26.

Why is it taking a it so long? devil is in the detail. How do you

:13:26.:13:32.

prove whether someone has one or two homes? Last week at Prime Minister's

:13:32.:13:35.

Questions, the formulation was it is a statement that's going to come

:13:35.:13:41.

from George Osborne and I think they realised they the didn't want to go

:13:41.:13:44.

through another week with the Prime Minister looking as if he didn't

:13:44.:13:47.

understand what is a key part of the Government's agenda.

:13:47.:13:54.

significance of this, Andrew, there are some economists now referring to

:13:54.:14:03.

the possibility of a housing back to boom like the boom in the 80s or the

:14:03.:14:08.

Barber boom by were intib rattly I think neared booms ahead of general

:14:09.:14:13.

elections. The The reason this is controversial

:14:14.:14:17.

is not simply whether money might be given to people who don't need it,

:14:17.:14:22.

but whether money is being used to artificially engineer a boom. Of

:14:22.:14:25.

will follow up on this, but it sounds like he hasn't answered the

:14:26.:14:30.

questions on this. Well, are until you know how it works. It maybe the

:14:30.:14:32.

intention. I mean what was interesting, when words are used

:14:32.:14:38.

that are words that you wouldn't normally use because some civil

:14:39.:14:46.

servant... Like only home.I keep hearing the word "intention". It is

:14:46.:14:49.

the intention Or at present. LAUGHTER

:14:49.:14:53.

Sorry! At present we are going to have to move on! Nick, thank you

:14:53.:14:58.

very much. Jo. We are heading to Dover, sadly

:14:58.:15:04.

not or a booze cruise, but Europe is on the mind of councillor Suzanne he

:15:04.:15:08.

Evans who defected from the Conservatives to UKIP. Here is her

:15:08.:15:18.
:15:18.:15:34.

take on why Britain needs to say p A place that needs no introduction,

:15:34.:15:40.

a symbol of British independence and freedom. I'm at the lighthouse in

:15:40.:15:45.

Dover just 21 miles from France and Europe. For centuries, the English

:15:45.:15:49.

Channel defended us against invasion in the threat and of control by

:15:49.:15:55.

major powers in Europe, but today, politics has rendered it all but

:15:55.:16:00.

irrelevant. I find it appalling that we give �55 million to Europe every

:16:00.:16:06.

day more than we get back. Here in our own country, 2. 5 million of us

:16:06.:16:09.

are unemployed. Hundreds of thousands of us are relying on

:16:09.:16:14.

foodbanks to survive. And we are still �900 billion in debt. That

:16:14.:16:17.

money should be spent sorting out money should be spent sorting out

:16:17.:16:24.

money should be spent sorting out our own problems. But it is not just

:16:24.:16:30.

the money, it is the interference. I sometimes think there must be a

:16:30.:16:36.

group of bureaucrats thinking, " What can we do to screw up people's

:16:36.:16:39.

lives today?" Often their schemes are laughable, but when they

:16:39.:16:44.

threatened to take us to court because we insist that EU migrants

:16:44.:16:51.

should prove they live in Britain before they can claim benefits then

:16:51.:16:57.

it goes beyond a joke. We have given away too much power. Yes, a

:16:57.:17:01.

referendum it promised by the Tories in four years time and only then if

:17:01.:17:05.

we vote them in as a majority Government in 2015 and talk of

:17:05.:17:10.

trying to repatriate powers is just that. Existing treaties make this

:17:11.:17:14.

impossible. I think we are better off out of Europe and that's why I

:17:14.:17:18.

have joined UKIP. The inability of the Conservative Party leadership to

:17:18.:17:21.

connect with issues on the doorstep just made the decision all that

:17:21.:17:26.

easier. I know there are plenty of other people voters and politicians,

:17:26.:17:36.
:17:36.:17:36.

who are sick of the Lib/Lab Con and they are ready to make a similar

:17:36.:17:46.
:17:46.:17:47.

journey. Suzanne is with us, who else in your

:17:48.:17:53.

old party is greater Falla? Councillor Rod Scott has resigned

:17:53.:17:57.

from the party and has announced he is joining UKIP. Any others? Not so

:17:57.:18:02.

far, but I live in hope. Why have you left the party that is in power

:18:02.:18:06.

and can actually make a difference and job to a fringe party that

:18:06.:18:10.

hasn't got a single MP and is probably never going to be in power?

:18:10.:18:13.

I don't think the current Government, the Conservative party,

:18:13.:18:17.

has the will to make a difference. A referendum in four years' time,

:18:17.:18:25.

2017, if David Cameron really wanted to get out of Europe, he would put

:18:25.:18:27.

the legislation on the table now, whether he thought he was going to

:18:27.:18:32.

win or not. The truth is, he's not interested and want us to stay in.

:18:32.:18:38.

Michael Howard, are you sad to see people like Suzanne leave the

:18:38.:18:41.

Conservative party? I am sad to see anyone leave the Conservative party.

:18:41.:18:46.

I agree that the way in which the EU works at the moment is

:18:46.:18:50.

unsatisfactory in many respects. you agree that the Conservative

:18:50.:18:55.

party no longer has the will to make a difference? Of course I don't,

:18:55.:19:01.

David Cameron has indicated clearly a determination to change the way we

:19:01.:19:05.

trade with Europe to make it a better European Union not only for

:19:05.:19:10.

us, but for every other member states of the European Union. And I

:19:10.:19:13.

think he should be given the opportunity to try and negotiate

:19:13.:19:18.

that. And in 2017, we can all make up our own minds as to whether we

:19:18.:19:23.

want to stay in or not. I think the question is how realistic is it

:19:23.:19:27.

going to be to renegotiate those treaties? We will all have the

:19:27.:19:30.

opportunity to make a judgement of whether he has succeeded or not. I

:19:30.:19:34.

don't know how we will vote. If we haven't made some significant

:19:34.:19:42.

changes, I may well vote no. But I think it is reasonable for the Prime

:19:42.:19:45.

Minister to be given the opportunity to see whether he can make those

:19:45.:19:48.

changes and we are the only party that is promising to give the

:19:48.:19:54.

British people a say on this issue. But the gamble hasn't worked has it?

:19:54.:19:58.

That promise has been made and UKIP has done better than at any other

:19:58.:20:02.

time in recent election results. all know that at this stage in

:20:02.:20:06.

parliament, parties like UKIP do very well for all sorts of different

:20:06.:20:10.

reasons. If the Liberal Democrats went in Government, they would be

:20:10.:20:14.

hoovering up by-election after by-election. That is the way our

:20:14.:20:18.

politics works in the mid-term. I think when it comes to the general

:20:18.:20:22.

election, and we do conservatives will be able to say very clearly,

:20:22.:20:29.

vote us back, we will do our best to renegotiate and you will then decide

:20:29.:20:32.

in 2017 whether on those terms you want to stay in or leave. I think

:20:32.:20:38.

that is a compelling argument. even, in your own backyard if you

:20:38.:20:41.

like, the county council elections in Folkestone and hide, there were

:20:41.:20:51.
:20:51.:20:52.

three UKIP gains and one Green game. What should you do? How would you

:20:52.:21:00.

woo back Suzanne? The one thing I would like to see is a legislated

:21:00.:21:04.

commitment to holding that referendum. I would very much like

:21:04.:21:09.

to see the Private members Bill, which is going to have its second

:21:09.:21:12.

reading next month, on the statute book. Because you don't believe it

:21:12.:21:16.

will happen without it? I believe it will happen without it but I am

:21:16.:21:20.

aware there are a number of people who are sceptical about that and do

:21:20.:21:24.

not trust what politicians say, and I think it would be a very good

:21:24.:21:28.

thing indeed if that commitment is on the statute book before the

:21:28.:21:32.

general election. Would that make a difference question mark now, if you

:21:32.:21:36.

want to woo me back, and that is unlikely, you would have to get it

:21:36.:21:42.

through now. Let's have it on the same day as the General Election.

:21:42.:21:46.

Douglas Alexander, is Labour going to offer the British people and

:21:46.:21:49.

in-out referendum at the next General Election? We are not

:21:49.:21:53.

convinced that it is in the national interest, so we have taken the

:21:53.:21:58.

position we have taken. Can you rule it out question mark can you rule

:21:58.:22:05.

out for us here, bearing in mind -- can you rule it out? It is never

:22:05.:22:09.

wise to say never. We will never rule out the possibility of a

:22:09.:22:12.

referendum in the future, dependent on changes we have not yet seen and

:22:12.:22:17.

circumstances that we don't at present envisaged. We are on the

:22:17.:22:19.

other hand clear that the sovereignty act on the table at the

:22:19.:22:24.

moment, part of the statue, which allows for a referendum if there is

:22:24.:22:30.

a significant transfer of sovereignty, so it is not in

:22:30.:22:34.

principle an objection to referendum but the priority has to be economic

:22:34.:22:40.

recovery and the biggest issue of the General Election is going to be

:22:40.:22:43.

the economy. You are not united on this. I have had several Labour

:22:43.:22:48.

senior figures say we need a referendum. Of course there are some

:22:48.:22:52.

in the party's ranks who have supported a referendum but I would

:22:52.:22:55.

argue that even they overwhelmingly see a referendum as a mechanism of

:22:55.:22:59.

securing fresh consent for British membership. It is not, as we have

:22:59.:23:06.

seen a game from Michael's comments, because our party split as well,

:23:06.:23:11.

Michael says he would vote against, Philip Hammond says he would vote

:23:11.:23:14.

against, Michael Gove said he would vote against, the Prime Minister

:23:14.:23:18.

cannot tell us how he would vote. And I am not that surprised that

:23:18.:23:22.

Suzanne and many other former Conservative colleagues are deeply

:23:22.:23:28.

unconvinced that the strategy the Tories are choosing to pursue.

:23:28.:23:32.

Red-faced, puffing politicians, they were out in force last night. Some

:23:32.:23:35.

of them were dragging their colleagues to the left, others

:23:35.:23:40.

desperately pulling to the right. What is new, I hear you cry? This

:23:40.:23:45.

time, it was the annual Charity tug of war. Giles Dilnot grabbed the end

:23:45.:23:53.

of a rope and he joined in. Westminster is traditionally fall of

:23:53.:23:57.

�1 ceremony, it is not short of a few people blowing their own trumpet

:23:57.:24:01.

too, but this event is neither of these things -- full of pomp and

:24:01.:24:07.

ceremony. The annual Parliamentary tug of war pits teams of the fit and

:24:07.:24:11.

healthy, or the unfit and foolhardy in my case, in one of life's less

:24:11.:24:17.

dignified sporting endeavours. My back might never recover, but let's

:24:17.:24:22.

see how this goes. In short, not very well. We lost

:24:23.:24:26.

2-1, but nobody was really there to watch us.

:24:26.:24:31.

Here is the contest they have been waiting for, your elected

:24:31.:24:34.

representatives against unelected representatives of the Lords. MPs,

:24:34.:24:39.

cross-party, all pulling together. And now they go. As in Parliament,

:24:39.:24:43.

the upper chamber has less power than the Commons and first blood

:24:43.:24:48.

went a bit predictably to the MPs, but second round and suddenly their

:24:48.:24:52.

Lordships showing the strain fought back.

:24:52.:24:57.

Not for many a year have the Lords actually won any of the tug of wars

:24:57.:25:01.

they have done. This could be important, they actually won one. It

:25:01.:25:06.

is 1-1. But despite a titanic effort from certain peers, it was

:25:06.:25:10.

eventually the MPs that one, although the mean were gracious in

:25:10.:25:17.

defeat. We were waiting for the final Paul and suddenly it was over.

:25:17.:25:21.

We came a close second. There is a cover for winners to drink to the

:25:21.:25:24.

only occasion where it is OK for politicians to pull a few strings

:25:24.:25:31.

for money. We are joined now by people who were

:25:31.:25:34.

both there last night. Just tell the nation, what was the result last

:25:34.:25:41.

night? Alex? It was 2-1 to the House of Commons. In previous years, it

:25:41.:25:49.

has been 2-0, so things have slipped. You looked as though you

:25:49.:25:54.

were praying to the heavens for strength, it didn't work. We were

:25:54.:25:57.

trying every technique and the best is to look straight up into the sky

:25:57.:26:00.

but we were slightly disadvantaged, because the Commons weighed in at

:26:00.:26:09.

one time, and we weighed in 130 kilograms less. A tonne?But all is

:26:09.:26:17.

fair in love and tug of war. Commons team weighed a tonne, that

:26:17.:26:19.

is what subsidised dining does for you. They are normally the

:26:20.:26:26.

lightweights. Once again bringing wait to reduce politics. But most

:26:26.:26:31.

importantly, we raised almost �150,000 for Macmillan cancer.

:26:31.:26:37.

everybody thinks is a great cause. Did the Commons team actually

:26:37.:26:43.

intentionally put weight on for this? Actually, the team captain's

:26:43.:26:46.

face dropped to the ground when he found out I have lost weight since

:26:46.:26:50.

last year but he still put me in as the anchorman, but he wasn't happy.

:26:50.:26:57.

What training did you do for this great event? A few pints and a pie.

:26:57.:27:01.

That is tough. They even put beer into the trophy and they were very

:27:01.:27:10.

gracious in allowing us to share it with them. Was it your beer?It was

:27:10.:27:12.

COBRA. Andrew, you can take part next year.

:27:12.:27:21.

I have been there and I have been one of those shouting. They have

:27:21.:27:27.

teams of cheerleaders. Alex, what do you put your unusual victory down

:27:27.:27:33.

to? Grit and determination. That can't be true. Either that or the

:27:34.:27:39.

Cobra beer. Another plug for the Cobra beer. Is

:27:39.:27:43.

this the first time you to have taken part? No, I have been in

:27:43.:27:46.

Parliament for seven years and have taken part every year and we did win

:27:46.:27:52.

one year, I can remember that. let you down? No one lets us down,

:27:52.:27:56.

this is a simulation of what happens between the houses in real life,

:27:56.:27:59.

when we defeat the Government in the House of Lords, it goes back to the

:27:59.:28:03.

House of Commons and it comes back to us and we send it back again.

:28:03.:28:06.

we always win. Very diplomatic. You don't always

:28:06.:28:11.

win, it was unusual. We were to let you go, you need to get in training

:28:11.:28:14.

for next year. That we better.

:28:14.:28:18.

More pints and pies. Now to put you out of your misery with the answer

:28:18.:28:23.

to Guess The Year. The answer was 1967. Douglas, if you press the red

:28:23.:28:32.

button. And look behind. There you go, Philip Thomson. From a beautiful

:28:32.:28:36.

part of the world. That is it for today, thank you to all of our

:28:36.:28:40.

guests. The news is starting over on BBC One, I will be back tomorrow at

:28:40.:28:43.

noon with all of the big political stories of the day. Where will you

:28:43.:28:49.

Prime Minister's Questions, and all your political news, on Daily Politics, with Andrew Neil and Jo Coburn. They are joined by guests-of-the-day Douglas Alexander and Lord Howard. The Guess the Year competition closes at 12.30pm during the live broadcast of this programme.


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