08/07/2013 Daily Politics


08/07/2013

Jo Coburn is joined by Geraldine Bedell, editor of Gransnet, to discuss the latest political news, including a look at whether the baby boomers have had things all their own way.


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Daily Politics. Times tables, fractions, Cromwell and Queen

:00:38.:00:43.

Victoria. Michael Gove unveils a new curriculum for England - but most

:00:43.:00:51.

secondary schools won't have to follow it.

:00:51.:00:57.

A nation delights - but which nation, Britain or Scotland?

:00:57.:01:01.

And has he got what it takes to win? Ed Miliband prepares to take on the

:01:01.:01:08.

unions in a big speech in the next few days.

:01:08.:01:17.

And is this what passes for grown up debate in the mother of parliaments?

:01:17.:01:23.

I'm sorry, Mr Speaker, the opposition don't want... It is very

:01:23.:01:25.

discourteous of the house to issue a collective groan.

:01:25.:01:30.

All that in the next hour. And with us for the whole programme

:01:31.:01:33.

today is Geraldine Bedell, the editor of gransnet. At least there's

:01:33.:01:37.

one job you haven't got to be old to do these days! Welcome to the

:01:37.:01:40.

programme. First today, the mansion tax could cost an average �36,000 a

:01:40.:01:43.

year - that's according to Treasury study that's been looking at

:01:43.:01:46.

proposals supported by Lib Dems and Labour to raise up to �2 billion

:01:46.:01:56.

from a levy on properties worth more than �2 million. Treasury officials

:01:56.:02:06.
:02:06.:02:06.

estimate it would apply to about 55,000 properties. Geraldine, a good

:02:06.:02:11.

idea? It is quite difficult to argue against it, from a fairness point of

:02:11.:02:19.

view. If you have a �2 million house, the chances are that you are

:02:19.:02:21.

beneficiary of the incredibly over-heated south-eastern property

:02:21.:02:25.

market, and it is a windfall, in a way. But it will be difficult for

:02:25.:02:32.

older people with houses as assets but no income. �36,000 a year is an

:02:32.:02:36.

awful lot of money for people on retirement incomes. I suspect what

:02:36.:02:41.

is behind this is an attempt to get people to downshift. It will be

:02:41.:02:45.

successful because people won't be able to afford it. Using that as the

:02:45.:02:51.

basis of the argument, can we be talking about a lot of old people

:02:51.:02:55.

sitting in houses worth more than �2 million who do not have quite a lot

:02:55.:03:03.

of money themselves? It is very possible to own at house in London

:03:03.:03:07.

worth �2 million and not to have a very high income. Lots of older

:03:07.:03:10.

people want to stay in their houses because they say they use them for

:03:10.:03:15.

family gatherings, they look after grandchildren there, they have a

:03:15.:03:18.

network of support and relationships in that area that they don't want to

:03:18.:03:25.

leave. Properties in the area are very expensive. It will affect a

:03:25.:03:31.

minority, but affect them severely. Isn't downsizing a good idea in the

:03:31.:03:35.

main? I'm not saying people should dictate what people should do, but

:03:35.:03:40.

perhaps more elderly people should consider it? It is a great idea when

:03:40.:03:46.

you are ready. It is people being given the opportunity to choose.

:03:46.:03:49.

What about a wholesale re-evaluation? It looks as if that

:03:49.:03:55.

would have to take place on, maybe, most properties in order to find out

:03:55.:04:00.

which ones are worth more than �2 million? That would be a lot of work

:04:00.:04:06.

and expense. And it probably would not go down well. Do you think it

:04:06.:04:12.

will be a runner. Possibly, but it depends who wins the next election.

:04:12.:04:15.

If Labour got in, it is very possible.

:04:15.:04:19.

Now it's time for our daily quiz. The question today is, Fred Perry

:04:20.:04:28.

was the last Brit to win Wimbledon 77 years ago. -- the last British

:04:28.:04:31.

man. Which of the these facts about life in Britain in 1936 is not true

:04:31.:04:34.

- university graduates had two votes, a loaf of bread cost

:04:34.:04:37.

four-and-a-half pence, women had to have a licence to wear trousers in

:04:37.:04:47.
:04:47.:04:48.

public or the average house price was �550? At the end of the show,

:04:49.:04:56.

Geraldine will give us the correct answer. No, Geraldine won't be here

:04:56.:05:02.

at the very end, you don't need to worry! It is our MPs. The Department

:05:02.:05:07.

of Education has published details of Michael Gove 's plan for a new

:05:07.:05:10.

National Curriculum covering primary and secondary schools in England. It

:05:10.:05:13.

will be the biggest shake-up since the original document was first

:05:13.:05:16.

introduced by Kenneth Baker in 1988. Michael Gove wants a more

:05:16.:05:18.

traditional curriculum to be taught in England's schools. Five-year-olds

:05:18.:05:20.

will be taught fractions and nine-year-olds will have to learn

:05:20.:05:28.

their times tables all the way up to 12. I thought they did already!

:05:28.:05:32.

There will be more focus on English history, with pupils learning about

:05:32.:05:35.

Oliver Cromwell, Queen Victoria and Winston Churchill - though Mr Gove

:05:35.:05:39.

has conceded that all pupils should also learn about world history. He

:05:39.:05:41.

says the reforms are about getting basic skills right, and David

:05:41.:05:49.

Cameron says the new curriculum will be rigorous, engaging and tough. But

:05:49.:05:52.

the majority of secondary schools will not have to implement it. There

:05:52.:05:55.

are now over 3000 academies in England which have the freedom to

:05:55.:05:59.

choose their own curriculum. And coming on top of the changes to

:05:59.:06:02.

exams announced last month, which will see GCSEs scrapped, teaching

:06:02.:06:05.

unions have complained that too many reforms are being rushed through too

:06:05.:06:15.
:06:15.:06:17.

quickly. None of the government's current ministers were available to

:06:17.:06:21.

explain the new proposals. But we have the former Schools Minister,

:06:22.:06:27.

thank goodness, Nick Gibb, and Mary boasted, Secretary-General of the

:06:27.:06:32.

Association of and lecturers. Nick, did you accept that too many changes

:06:32.:06:38.

are being made to the education system at once? The government is

:06:38.:06:42.

unapologetic. There is a rush to make sure our education system is on

:06:42.:06:46.

a par with the best in the world. Young people leaving education will

:06:46.:06:52.

be challenging in a -- competing in a challenging global race for jobs,

:06:52.:06:57.

therefore they need to be literate, have good maths skills and

:06:57.:07:00.

understand science. We need to make sure that our school leavers compete

:07:00.:07:07.

for those jobs and get them in a very competitive market. But if it

:07:07.:07:11.

is done in a rush and the system can't cope, we will not get the

:07:11.:07:16.

success and improvement that you want? I say in a hurry, not in a

:07:16.:07:19.

rush. There is still a year before this is implemented in primary

:07:19.:07:27.

schools. It is not that different, frankly. Maths is maths. It is just

:07:27.:07:34.

a skewing of how not up location tables are taught at the age of

:07:34.:07:37.

nine, not at 11. GCSE 's don't come in until September 2015, so there is

:07:38.:07:41.

plenty of lead time. That it is essential that we have a rigorous

:07:42.:07:49.

and demanding curriculum. Can you do it in a year? I don't think it is

:07:49.:07:54.

possible to do it well in a year. Schools will make every effort to do

:07:54.:07:59.

it, but not to do it well. To give you one example of more haste, less

:07:59.:08:05.

speed. Children starting this curriculum in 2014 will be tested in

:08:05.:08:10.

2015 on the old curriculum, because there isn't time to bring in new

:08:10.:08:15.

tests. That might be the case in 2016. We don't know what the new

:08:15.:08:20.

GCSEs will look like. The new curriculum has very little relation

:08:20.:08:24.

to the foundation curriculum that children do before they start

:08:24.:08:30.

school, so these are very rushed changes on a very poorer base. The

:08:30.:08:34.

first proposals for changing the National Curriculum were so poor

:08:34.:08:38.

that only Michael Gove could say they were worth anything. They were

:08:38.:08:43.

not accepted by teachers, academics, employers, parent, they were roundly

:08:43.:08:47.

condemned and criticised. They are starting from a very low base and we

:08:47.:08:52.

will need to see if these proposals are real improvement? Do you agree?

:08:52.:08:59.

No, the curriculum was of a very high standard... Did anybody except

:08:59.:09:04.

them? They were based on a curriculum from around the world.

:09:04.:09:07.

There was criticism of the history, too much was being put into the

:09:07.:09:15.

primary school. Only up to 1066 in the primary years, and then

:09:15.:09:18.

secondary education afterwards. There have been changes to design

:09:18.:09:22.

and technology so that we are sure that our children can be the

:09:22.:09:26.

designers of the future, they can use 3D printers, they can use

:09:26.:09:30.

robotics and understand the basics of leavers, wheels and cogs and so

:09:30.:09:37.

on. It is robust. So you will have a system where children will be tested

:09:37.:09:41.

at GCSE while a new curriculum is being introduced that won't be part

:09:41.:09:47.

of our testing. It makes no sense. Schools and understand the syllabus

:09:47.:09:53.

for the GCSEs they will be taking before 2017. In terms of the primary

:09:54.:09:57.

curriculum and what is tested at the end of Key stage two, teachers

:09:57.:10:02.

clearly understand what is in the syllabus now and what will be tested

:10:02.:10:07.

next year. The syllabus comes in September 2014. Because it is more

:10:07.:10:12.

rigorous, if schools are teaching to this new curriculum and getting

:10:12.:10:16.

children learning that tables are earlier, not later, if they become

:10:16.:10:20.

fluent readers earlier than before, they will do just as well, if not

:10:20.:10:26.

better, in the current test than if they were teaching the old

:10:26.:10:32.

curriculum. Is merrymaking too much fuss? I think so. Unions need to say

:10:32.:10:36.

something about government proposals, but I think Mary will be

:10:36.:10:39.

supportive of this curriculum. Children will be fluent in

:10:39.:10:43.

arithmetic, they will understand fractions... You keep reciting these

:10:43.:10:49.

lists, they are just statements. I am profoundly unhappy by the way

:10:49.:10:53.

this government does education policy. We have had three

:10:53.:10:55.

announcements about GCSEs and massive backtracking, proposals for

:10:55.:11:01.

a primary curriculum which were roundly condemned. You do not

:11:01.:11:06.

involve the profession, you don't listen to experts. More so than the

:11:06.:11:12.

previous system which was produced by quangos. Even the teacher expert

:11:12.:11:15.

groups which were hand-picked by the National College to talk about

:11:15.:11:20.

teacher training and resources, they said in essence that they were

:11:20.:11:28.

unteachable. That is a very low base. They are teachable in other

:11:28.:11:32.

countries, successful countries. We are dropping down the international

:11:32.:11:37.

league tables. What about Finland? You start school at seven, they are

:11:37.:11:41.

top of the league tables, they are moving towards a more skills -based,

:11:42.:11:48.

practical curriculum. They are... They have a much simpler language in

:11:48.:11:53.

Finland than we do. It is not rigorous to introduce concepts to

:11:53.:11:58.

children before they are ready to learn them. Bee we are making sure

:11:58.:12:03.

they are ready... How?Teaching the algorithms, teaching children how to

:12:04.:12:07.

do maths and learn to read is the key thing. So they are not

:12:07.:12:13.

struggling with this concept is. you think they will be ready at a

:12:13.:12:17.

younger age to deal with some of the concepts in maths and evolution

:12:17.:12:21.

which have been talked about, doing fractions at perhaps the ages of

:12:21.:12:26.

seven and eight? I think parents and grandparents want to see children

:12:26.:12:30.

learning things as soon is they are able to, but this all seems a little

:12:30.:12:34.

bit irrelevant to me. Free schools and academies will not be forced to

:12:34.:12:39.

follow this curriculum, secondly, this is not really what parents are

:12:39.:12:43.

interested in. They want inspiring teaching. I don't think most of us

:12:43.:12:46.

care very much whether our children are taught about Nelson Mandela or

:12:47.:12:50.

Winston Churchill. We want our children to have the resources and

:12:50.:12:55.

enthusiasm and creativity to do something with their learning and to

:12:55.:13:02.

go on to learn more. It is about the teachers, you cant we can change the

:13:02.:13:07.

system, and the previous government did just as much. If you just rely

:13:07.:13:10.

on teachers to do their job and find the best teachers, which I know

:13:11.:13:16.

Michael Gove has focused on, isn't that more important? Two the changes

:13:16.:13:23.

to the curriculum one part of an overall reform. We need inspiring

:13:23.:13:27.

teachers. We have raised the bar of entry into teaching. We want to

:13:27.:13:33.

raise the status of teaching as a profession. This is the government

:13:33.:13:36.

which has dropped the requirement for qualified teacher status and

:13:37.:13:40.

schools. It talks about higher status for teachers, but then it

:13:40.:13:48.

says they do not need a qualification. This curriculum is

:13:48.:13:51.

far less prescriptive than the national strategy, which told

:13:51.:13:57.

teachers how to teach a 3-part lesson, group teaching etc. It has

:13:57.:14:02.

all been swept away to use that professional experience...

:14:02.:14:07.

Unqualified teachers. We will come back to the qualifications very

:14:07.:14:12.

briefly. As Geraldine said, if the National Curriculum is so great, why

:14:12.:14:16.

don't academies have to follow it? We are giving them the same

:14:16.:14:21.

regulatory structure as independent schools. It will inform the exams

:14:21.:14:28.

they take, the Key stage two tests, the GCSEs. Parents will be able to

:14:28.:14:32.

look at the curriculum and say, why don't my children know about the

:14:32.:14:35.

civil war? Why haven't they understood about long division? If

:14:35.:14:44.

their school isn't to Burke that are delivering, they can challenge it.

:14:44.:14:48.

Three of the first round of free schools have been told they are

:14:48.:14:50.

virtually in special measures. This freedom equal in quality does not

:14:51.:14:56.

exist. The fact you have a National Curriculum applying to some schools

:14:56.:14:59.

and not others is nonsense. The government can't get off the feet

:14:59.:15:07.

about that. There are Key stage two tests. Most schools will be teaching

:15:07.:15:10.

the National Curriculum, as a main. Some academies and free schools

:15:10.:15:14.

might be teaching beyond it. That is a good thing. But this curriculum is

:15:15.:15:20.

being informed by experts, it has been based on successful

:15:20.:15:25.

jurisdictions around the world. If it is successfully in fermented and

:15:26.:15:28.

schools, as I think it will be, it will put this country pulls-macro

:15:28.:15:33.

educational system on a par with the best in the world, which is where

:15:33.:15:39.

education needs to be. What about unqualified teaching? Won't it lead

:15:39.:15:43.

to further problems? Schools have the freedom to employee who they

:15:43.:15:47.

choose to, most will employ qualified teachers. But if you want

:15:47.:15:51.

to employ a professor of chemistry from a university in his later

:15:51.:15:55.

years, or somebody who has taught throughout their life in an

:15:55.:15:59.

independent school who does not have qualified teacher status, to attract

:15:59.:16:05.

them, you have the freedom. It is about having the best communicators,

:16:05.:16:09.

as well as people who know their subject. A teaching qualification

:16:09.:16:14.

may well be essential for some people but not everybody? It is a

:16:14.:16:17.

guaranteed you have been through appropriate training. Not that you

:16:17.:16:24.

will be a good teacher. The standard for qualifying is very high. To have

:16:24.:16:28.

another tree, no, you don't need to be qualified, lowers the status of

:16:28.:16:34.

the profession. We are talking about excellent teachers who are involved

:16:34.:16:38.

in curriculum development. There is no such requirement in the

:16:38.:16:48.
:16:48.:16:51.

independent sector. They have a very Speaking of history... It is 77

:16:51.:16:54.

years since Fred Perry won the men's title. Yesterday, of course,

:16:54.:16:58.

Andy Murray finally did it again for Britain. Or was it Scotland?

:16:58.:17:01.

Union flags and Saltires were waved amongst the throngs camped out on

:17:01.:17:04.

Murray mound and, in defiance of a ban on large flags on Centre Court

:17:04.:17:06.

itself, Scotland's First Minister controversially unfurled a Scottish

:17:06.:17:16.
:17:16.:17:31.

Andy Murray himself described his victory as a British win.

:17:31.:17:36.

understand how much everyone wanted to see a British winner at

:17:36.:17:45.

Wimbledon. I hope you guys enjoyed. I tried my best. That was Andy

:17:45.:17:51.

Murray celebrating the big win. It was an amazing match and a

:17:51.:17:57.

beautiful day to go with it. Celebrations have been continuing.

:17:57.:18:00.

With me now is the Conservative MP and vice chair of the all party

:18:00.:18:03.

tennis group - Mark Pritchard - and the SNP Member of the Scottish

:18:03.:18:09.

Parliament Keith Brown, who is in his constituency in Dunblane.

:18:09.:18:14.

Welcome to both of you. First of all, why shouldn't Alex Salmond

:18:14.:18:22.

waive the sole tyre? He can. He is the master of the political stunt.

:18:22.:18:26.

I do not think the future of the United Kingdom should be viewed as

:18:26.:18:32.

a stunt. It is serious. People can be very proudly Scottish, Welsh,

:18:32.:18:37.

English will come from Northern Ireland and still be proudly

:18:37.:18:41.

British. They can be very complimentary. I do not have issued

:18:41.:18:51.

with people waving around francs. - - flags. I think it should unite

:18:51.:18:57.

the nation. Those trying to detract away from that and wanting to just

:18:57.:19:04.

unite the nation - I think it is unfortunate. It was unfortunate and

:19:04.:19:10.

a political stunt. It is unfortunate it is seen to be

:19:10.:19:16.

politicised. In Dunblane, people were glued to the televisions. It

:19:16.:19:21.

was testament to the long years of sacrifice he made. It is nothing to

:19:21.:19:31.
:19:31.:19:35.

do with politics. Why did he unfurled the Scottish flag? Alex

:19:35.:19:39.

Salmond is the first minister of Scotland. He has followed the

:19:39.:19:47.

career of Andy married for 10 years. He wanted to celebrate. -- Andy

:19:47.:19:53.

Murray. Had his opponent won, and the Serbian Prime Minister unfurled

:19:53.:20:02.

the Serbian flag, there would be none of this. First of all, it is a

:20:02.:20:06.

great achievement for him and for Scotland and for the United Kingdom.

:20:06.:20:11.

The great achievement for tennis in this country. I hope we will seek

:20:11.:20:16.

other people coming up through the ranks and then on to win future

:20:16.:20:21.

Wimbledons. Let's hope he wins next year as well. I take the view the

:20:22.:20:27.

United Kingdom is a stronger country when all the countries are

:20:27.:20:32.

united together. Scotland is more prosperous and safer. That is very

:20:32.:20:38.

much part of being the United Kingdom. It is unfortunate that

:20:38.:20:43.

this incident has overshadowed what should be a personal and national

:20:43.:20:47.

victory for tennis in this country. To believe the Daily Mail's outrage

:20:47.:20:53.

is more likely to drive a wedge between the nations instead of

:20:53.:20:58.

encouraging unity you have talked about? I do not think so. The Daily

:20:58.:21:02.

Mail is a very good newspaper. It is right they highlight the

:21:02.:21:07.

political mischief of people like Alex Salmond. He is the master of

:21:07.:21:15.

the political stunt. Some in tennis might be frustrated at what he did.

:21:15.:21:21.

Yesterday should have been about Mr Murray, rather than tennis, rather

:21:21.:21:30.

than political statements. -- and tennis. Andy Murray himself talked

:21:30.:21:35.

about a win for Britain and not a win for Scotland. Of course, people

:21:35.:21:40.

across Britain will take huge satisfaction. As well people in

:21:40.:21:46.

Scotland and Dunblane. Nothing wrong with that. Whether it it is

:21:46.:21:55.

Union flags, sold tyres, St Georges crosses. People are entitled to

:21:55.:21:59.

celebrate. The only person talking about politics is Mr Pritchard. I

:21:59.:22:02.

would rather talk about Andy Mario Mandzukic and his achievement and

:22:02.:22:08.

the ultimate success, which must be the ambition of every tennis player

:22:08.:22:15.

in the world. -- Andy Murray. Alex Salmon did not have politics

:22:15.:22:25.
:22:25.:22:27.

on his mind at all. -- Alex Salmond. Of course he wanted to celebrate.

:22:27.:22:32.

He will not be thinking about constitutional politics. The

:22:32.:22:37.

children are thinking about, how can I get the same kind of shots

:22:37.:22:42.

and baseline controlled that Andy Murray had? Apart from wanting to

:22:42.:22:45.

improve their tennis, it is difficult to believe that

:22:45.:22:49.

politicians were not thinking about how it would help them. I'm sure

:22:49.:22:56.

David Cameron was thinking, we have had a few good weeks of weather and

:22:56.:23:01.

Andy Murray has won for Britain. The Prime Minister is probably the

:23:01.:23:09.

best tennis player in Parliament. He could have taken advantage and

:23:09.:23:14.

pulled out the Union flag. He was dignified and realised it was a day

:23:14.:23:20.

of British tennis. We have to really go at our loins. There may

:23:20.:23:26.

be other political stunts from Alex Salmond as he sees the polls

:23:26.:23:31.

increasing in favour of Scotland staying within the United Kingdom -

:23:31.:23:36.

upsetting the Catholic Church in Scotland - even the BBC in Scotland.

:23:37.:23:45.

He had the golden touch of politics and he has made strategic error

:23:45.:23:50.

after strategic error. They realise they're making mistake after

:23:50.:23:55.

mistake after mistake. The argument has been seen through by the

:23:55.:24:00.

Scottish people. They're probably likely to see further political

:24:00.:24:04.

stance in desperation by the SNP. What about the Commonwealth Games

:24:04.:24:11.

next year? Will it be used to boost the referendum campaign? Of course

:24:11.:24:15.

not. The Commonwealth Games is about the whole of the Commonwealth.

:24:15.:24:20.

They're very proud of the fact we hosted in Glasgow, just as London

:24:20.:24:26.

is that it hosted an Olympics last year. The only person scoring

:24:26.:24:31.

political points is Mark Pritchard. Every time he has brought it back

:24:31.:24:35.

to constitutional politics. It is about Andy Murray. Let's not

:24:35.:24:41.

detract from that. It is a huge achievement. It says more about the

:24:41.:24:45.

Conservative Party than the people of Scotland or indeed the people of

:24:45.:24:51.

Britain. They are basking in the glory of a fantastic achievement by

:24:51.:24:56.

Andy Murray, let that be the story today. I want to see you pick up a

:24:56.:25:01.

tennis racket and have a game behind me. Thank you very much.

:25:01.:25:07.

am happy to play. We are all in this together. That was George

:25:07.:25:10.

Osborne's mantra when the belt- tightening began in 2010. But one

:25:10.:25:14.

section of society has come-off relatively unscathed from the cuts.

:25:14.:25:16.

Pensioners have been promised healthy increases in their pensions

:25:16.:25:20.

and winter fuel payments continue to be made even to the better off.

:25:20.:25:24.

Fair play, or have pensioners been shown a distinct advantage? Adam

:25:24.:25:34.
:25:34.:25:40.

Missing Wimbledon, don't worry, I've come to Rhyd tennis club in

:25:40.:25:47.

Tottenham to talk to people about the welfare state. Right now, at

:25:47.:25:52.

roughly �80 billion a year is spent on a state pension, alone in

:25:52.:25:57.

pension credits. A further �2.1 billion is spent on the annual

:25:57.:26:02.

Winter Fuel Allowance. 578 million is spent giving free television

:26:02.:26:08.

licences to those over 75. We have not mentioned bus passes yet.

:26:08.:26:13.

think pensioners have a bad deal actually. I know some pensioners

:26:13.:26:18.

are frightened to put the heating on in winter. That is sad. They and

:26:18.:26:22.

the people can work and the older people cannot always work. They

:26:22.:26:27.

have given their lives to this country and they need to be looked

:26:27.:26:35.

after. The country fields broadly the same. -- feels broadly the same.

:26:35.:26:40.

Politicians are engaged in a rally over been less generous. Ed Balls

:26:40.:26:44.

said that Labour would take away the Winter Fuel Allowance from the

:26:44.:26:49.

richest 5% of pensioners. The Lib Dem said they could not guarantee

:26:49.:26:54.

the existence of the so-called triple-lock, which means pension

:26:54.:26:59.

rise by 2.5% a year. A couple of weeks ago, George Osborne said the

:26:59.:27:04.

Tories would have to look at the affordability of universal pension

:27:04.:27:10.

benefits at some point in the future. Our tennis-playing pm

:27:10.:27:20.
:27:20.:27:24.

promised they would be safe with him in charge. -- Prime Minister.

:27:24.:27:31.

Once you break down... It you drive a wedge into the universal

:27:31.:27:35.

principle. You have to look at fuel allowance for wealthy pensioners

:27:35.:27:44.

and other areas. All three parties have coalesced around the fact we

:27:44.:27:51.

cannot do this universe he had to. There is another freebie for older

:27:51.:27:58.

people. -- universality. I take it as fighting for the National Health

:27:58.:28:05.

Service. Are they going to say at a certain point, if you earn �42,000,

:28:05.:28:10.

you have to pay for your medical care? Are they going to say that?

:28:11.:28:17.

It is not a big step. Tough choices lie ahead on welfare. Who will have

:28:17.:28:21.

the balls to make them? Geraldine Bedell, editor of Gransnet, is

:28:21.:28:25.

still with me. And to take her on, Ed Howker, author of Jilted

:28:25.:28:35.
:28:35.:28:35.

Generation. Do you think pensioners get too much? That is a harsh way

:28:35.:28:41.

of characterising it. As the cuts have fallen, they have fallen on

:28:41.:28:46.

younger sections of the population - insulating rather wealthy, older

:28:46.:28:51.

people, who continued to get a lot of welfare benefits and they do not

:28:51.:28:58.

need them. Is that fair? It is not unfair. We do not have results but

:28:58.:29:03.

what we're going to find his responses of quite nuanced. Older

:29:03.:29:08.

people are not implacably opposed to being part of the solution and

:29:08.:29:13.

recognise there is a fairness issue here. Including universal benefits

:29:13.:29:19.

been taken away... When George Osborne announce the suspension of

:29:19.:29:22.

winter fuel payments to people living abroad, there was not a

:29:22.:29:28.

great deal of protest. No one will argue that Mick Jagger meets winter

:29:28.:29:33.

fuel payments. Only 10% of pensioners have incomes of over

:29:33.:29:39.

�30,000 a year. We're not talking about fast groups of greedy people.

:29:39.:29:43.

50% of pensioners are living entirely on the state pension.

:29:43.:29:48.

not have to be careful what you wish for? You could be causing more

:29:48.:29:58.
:29:58.:30:04.

deal with these things than others? It is not an argument, young people

:30:04.:30:09.

have been more adversely affected, in terms of the job opportunities

:30:09.:30:13.

they have and the fact that they might become more dependent on

:30:13.:30:19.

parents and grandparents. If you look at how the cuts have fallen,

:30:19.:30:23.

they have fallen towards young people. One of the things I find

:30:23.:30:27.

most offensive about the arguments made by the likes of that woman in

:30:27.:30:31.

that film who said that older people say they are slicing away at the

:30:31.:30:37.

universal principle by tackling pensioner benefits. That universal

:30:37.:30:41.

principle has disappeared entirely by young people, who have been

:30:41.:30:47.

targeted through DMA, the shared room rate, university fees in a way

:30:47.:30:49.

that is disproportionate. I don't think there is a world of difference

:30:49.:30:55.

between the argument that we would have about this. I think it is wrong

:30:55.:30:58.

to characterise pensioners as greedy, that is not necessarily the

:30:58.:31:04.

case. A lot of electoral sweeteners given to them turn out not to be

:31:04.:31:09.

worth it, I think. I think if you were to dismantle the universal

:31:09.:31:14.

principle, you have to look at the cost and benefits. The benefits

:31:14.:31:18.

would not be huge, there are not that many people involved in paying

:31:18.:31:23.

higher rates of tax. The cost would be high. It is an inefficient way of

:31:23.:31:28.

going about things and it creates a new set of unfairness is. One of the

:31:28.:31:32.

things that bothers me about this argument is the stigmatisation of

:31:32.:31:38.

older people as somehow sitting comfortably when, in fact, older

:31:38.:31:43.

people are net contributors to the economy. Huge amounts of

:31:43.:31:46.

grandparents are neighbouring young people to work. Run parents feel

:31:46.:31:52.

strongly about this because they see first-hand what it is like to be a

:31:52.:31:57.

young person out of work or trying to buy a house. But do you accept

:31:57.:32:01.

that some older people have had it good in a way that their children

:32:01.:32:05.

will never have, because of house prices, their children would have

:32:05.:32:15.

had free University education and their pensions are index-linked?

:32:15.:32:20.

There is inequality, and we are prepared to accept that, but it is a

:32:20.:32:26.

minority of people. What have you done in terms of making wealthy

:32:27.:32:32.

pensioners pay more? -- what can be done in terms of bastion muck the

:32:32.:32:35.

House of Lords about ageism was the best way to divvy up how government

:32:35.:32:45.
:32:45.:32:46.

assistance is handed out. If you look at the Winter fuel payment,

:32:46.:32:53.

free television licences, the fact that a chunk of pensioners work and

:32:53.:32:57.

pay no national insurance. If you look at those wings, in a very

:32:57.:33:01.

straightforward way, there are questions to be answered about

:33:01.:33:07.

whether we can afford those. Can we, and should they be looked at?

:33:07.:33:15.

is no harm in looking. Over 75s is still the group most likely to live

:33:15.:33:21.

in poverty. And I agree, and we need to do more for them. Age is not

:33:21.:33:26.

necessarily the best way at divvying things up. We need to think much

:33:26.:33:30.

more constructively about the whole life course and opportunities. To be

:33:30.:33:36.

old in Glasgow is very different than to be old in Kensington. There

:33:36.:33:39.

are many people who are able to go on working for much longer and

:33:39.:33:44.

should probably not be retiring at 50 and living on the state for 30

:33:44.:33:48.

years. Is there a worried that there is an intergenerational tension

:33:48.:33:55.

being built up by this sort of discussion? No. I think people talk

:33:55.:34:00.

about young people waging a war against their parents. In reality,

:34:00.:34:05.

that is not how the cuts and the crisis affecting poorer sections of

:34:05.:34:10.

society is operating. When young people get poorer, they are much

:34:10.:34:17.

angry with their parents, they are reliant on them. -- they are not

:34:17.:34:17.

angry with their parents. Thank you both.

:34:17.:34:21.

It's the last full week for MPs here in Westminster. The sun is out and

:34:21.:34:25.

no doubt one or two will have half an eye on a Mediterranean beach - I

:34:25.:34:28.

mean, British seaside holiday! - but first there's a busy few days ahead.

:34:28.:34:32.

In the next few days, Labour leader Ed Miliband will set out his plans

:34:32.:34:35.

for the unions following the recent row with Unite over candidate

:34:35.:34:37.

selection. Then on Wednesday, the Privy Council

:34:37.:34:40.

will meet to discuss the alternative draft Royal Charter on press

:34:40.:34:45.

regulation put forward by newspaper bosses a few weeks ago.

:34:45.:34:48.

Also on Wednesday, BBC bosses Chris Patten and Tony Hall are being

:34:48.:34:51.

grilled by the Public Accounts Committee on big payoffs for

:34:51.:34:57.

managers. And on Thursday, MPs will find out

:34:57.:35:01.

if they've been awarded the pay rise that, supposedly, none of them want.

:35:01.:35:04.

IPSA, the body now responsible for MPs' pay have hinted that our

:35:04.:35:11.

politicians could be in line for a 15% hike in their salary.

:35:11.:35:14.

To discuss all that I'm joined now from the heat of College Green by

:35:14.:35:17.

two of Westminster's big hitters - Joe Watts from the London Evening

:35:17.:35:27.
:35:27.:35:28.

Standard and Craig Woodhouse from The Sun. Welcome to you both.

:35:28.:35:32.

Craig, what does Ed Miliband need to say in his speech about Labour 's

:35:32.:35:37.

future relationship with the unions? Something, big, bold and radical

:35:37.:35:42.

which we have not heard before. Two years ago there was a document which

:35:43.:35:49.

was seeking to recast this entire relationship. Team Edwards breaching

:35:49.:35:54.

fairly heavily that he would water down the influence of the unions. Lo

:35:54.:36:02.

and behold, we have another union height on our hands. Joe, could it

:36:02.:36:08.

be turned to Miliband 's advantage? It is a crisis, the worst scandals

:36:08.:36:13.

for a political party play into people 's pre-existing fears, and

:36:13.:36:18.

this goes right to the heart of fears about Labour. Ed Miliband sees

:36:18.:36:22.

this as an opportunity to be seen to be standing up to the unions. He can

:36:22.:36:26.

only capitalise on that opportunity if his actions match his rhetoric

:36:26.:36:33.

tomorrow. There will be lots of Tory MPs waiting to see if it doesn't.

:36:33.:36:39.

Craig, Joe is right, Tory MPs will want to capitalise on this as much

:36:39.:36:45.

as possible. Is there a danger for him? There is a danger if it looks

:36:45.:36:50.

to the public like it is a party political row and David Cameron

:36:50.:36:55.

shoehorned in the words Unite and Len McCluskey last week to the

:36:55.:36:59.

delight of his backbenchers. If it looks like they are crowing, there

:36:59.:37:04.

is a danger. But Joe was right, this is a fantasy for the Conservative

:37:04.:37:13.

Party, to have a caricature Labour leftie taking an someone may have

:37:13.:37:19.

been trying to portray as the puppet of the unions. Let move on to press

:37:19.:37:24.

regulation. John Prescott has said the Privy Council could talk about

:37:24.:37:30.

this for up to nine months or so. A bit more prevarication, it will be

:37:30.:37:34.

kicked into the next Parliament. What do you think are the chances of

:37:34.:37:39.

a new royal charter being in place before the next election? I would

:37:39.:37:44.

highlight that, this morning, the newspaper industry has published a

:37:44.:37:48.

draft constitution for a new press Watchdog. For their part, at least,

:37:48.:37:52.

it shows they can is to get moving despite the ongoing discussions of

:37:53.:37:58.

the Royal Charter. Craig, do you think that is the case? If the Privy

:37:59.:38:02.

Council is discussing an alternative Royal Charter put forward by

:38:02.:38:07.

newspaper bosses, which will delay any system being put into place,

:38:07.:38:11.

even if the Prime Minister says he wants to make sure they have gone

:38:11.:38:18.

through it with a fine tooth comb, will it be the Son what won it

:38:18.:38:26.

again? I would not like to say that. We are where we are, and due to the

:38:26.:38:30.

slightly arcane laws of the way in which the Privy Council works, they

:38:30.:38:33.

can only discuss one charter regulating one industry at any one

:38:33.:38:39.

time stop this is one being discussed first, which has upset

:38:39.:38:43.

Lord Prescott, no longer the right honourable. Those arcane rules are

:38:43.:38:49.

pain! Do you think the new royal charter for press regulation will be

:38:49.:38:55.

placed by the next election? There will need to be a way of getting

:38:55.:38:59.

some sort of consensus and agreement which suits everybody. It is not a

:38:59.:39:08.

question I am suitably qualified to answer. MPs' pay rise, does the

:39:08.:39:15.

Government stop it? That is an interesting question and it is a

:39:15.:39:19.

nightmare for the party leaders. The only god send for them is that it is

:39:19.:39:23.

a nightmare for all three, not just one. They will hide behind this

:39:23.:39:28.

theory that it is out of their hands and it has been passed to the

:39:28.:39:36.

Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority. The government sets the

:39:36.:39:40.

guidelines for IPSA to calculate an MPs' pay, so we will have to wait

:39:40.:39:47.

and see how David Cameron handles it. One interesting point is how we

:39:47.:39:50.

move is on this. They benefit from protest votes so it will be

:39:50.:39:55.

interesting to see how they benefit. It could be barred for David

:39:55.:40:02.

Cameron. Craig, if you work Cameron, how would you deal with it? I would

:40:02.:40:07.

make clear that I want nothing to do with it, but I could do nothing

:40:07.:40:10.

about the rules. Thank you. With me now are three MPs, all of

:40:10.:40:13.

whom have tried to get their own private members' bills through

:40:13.:40:15.

Parliament. James Wharton, whose EU Referendum Bill got its second

:40:15.:40:18.

reading on Friday, Labour MP Lisa Nandy had wanted to see a crackdown

:40:19.:40:22.

of zero hours contracts but lost out in the ballot and Lib Dem Julian

:40:22.:40:25.

Huppert had a bill on local planning but it didn't get beyond a first

:40:26.:40:33.

reading. Welcome to all of you. But let's start with Labour's woes. As

:40:33.:40:36.

we've heard, Ed Miliband is preparing to make a speech about the

:40:36.:40:39.

party's relationship with the unions. On the Sunday Politics

:40:39.:40:41.

yesterday, former Labour Home Secretary John Reid warned of the

:40:41.:40:51.
:40:51.:40:52.

seriousness of the crisis. I have no doubt that the leader of

:40:52.:40:56.

Unite wants to impose an ideological direction on the Labour Party that

:40:56.:41:03.

with leaders into political oblivion, as it did in the 1970s and

:41:03.:41:08.

1980s. That is why this is a political struggle. Lisa Nandy,

:41:08.:41:12.

funnily enough, I will come to you first. He says Len McCluskey wants

:41:12.:41:17.

to take Labour back to the 70s and 80s, to impose an ideological

:41:17.:41:22.

direction which would lead us into political oblivion. With respect to

:41:22.:41:28.

John Reid, it sounds like he is talking about 1990, not 2013. Ed

:41:28.:41:33.

Miliband was right to recognise that this is a bigger issue than Falkirk,

:41:33.:41:36.

wherever you have a small number of people exerting a great deal of

:41:36.:41:41.

influence on a political party, you have a problem, as we have seen with

:41:41.:41:45.

wealthy donors in the Conservative Party. There are 6.5 million working

:41:45.:41:48.

people in this country who joined trade unions because they recognise

:41:48.:41:53.

that without that they would not have the minimum wage, maternity and

:41:53.:41:56.

paternity leave, the weekend and other rights that we take for

:41:56.:42:00.

granted. What I think you will see from Ed Miliband tomorrow is a

:42:00.:42:04.

speech looking at how we rebuild democracy in the Labour Party. I

:42:05.:42:09.

hope we will see something similar from the other political parties who

:42:09.:42:12.

have, rightly, been criticised for having a small number of people

:42:12.:42:18.

exerting influence. Are they wrong for exerting that level of

:42:18.:42:22.

influence? The strength of the Labour Party has been being a

:42:22.:42:25.

grassroots organisation drawing strength from the communities that

:42:25.:42:30.

we live and work on. The difficulty with parliamentary selection is they

:42:30.:42:35.

are extremely long and expensive and difficult to navigate. Should Unite

:42:36.:42:42.

be trying to control them? It is right and proper that they play a

:42:42.:42:47.

part, and I would support that, but ordinary members have to look at

:42:47.:42:51.

candidates across the board, including those who have not played

:42:51.:42:55.

an insider role in political life, the trade unions or any other

:42:55.:43:01.

movement. Len McCluskey says he can no longer go on with the activities

:43:01.:43:06.

of a Labour Party in which I can face no trust. Do you back the

:43:06.:43:15.

general secretary or Ed Miliband? have been a member of Unite, or the

:43:15.:43:20.

T7G, as it was then, as long as I have been a member of the Labour

:43:20.:43:29.

Party. -- or the T&G. Will Ed Miliband have to resign? The truth

:43:30.:43:34.

is that the people who have to win the members of our party, many whom

:43:34.:43:39.

are trade unionist as well, all of whom have a lot to contribute and

:43:39.:43:44.

offer. They have a right to decide what happens in their own party.

:43:44.:43:50.

your sympathies lie with Len McCluskey or Ed Miliband? With the

:43:50.:43:55.

trade union movement and the Labour Party, both of which have worked 400

:43:55.:44:01.

that 100 years to get rights for people in this country. We have just

:44:01.:44:05.

had the 65th birthday of the NHS, the coalition wants rid of it. We

:44:05.:44:11.

need to stick together. McClusky said that Shadow Cabinet was in the

:44:11.:44:17.

lead in initiating this attack. have not seen the Falkirk report and

:44:17.:44:20.

I am not in the Shadow Cabinet. I don't know why the police were

:44:20.:44:25.

called in, I have not seen the report. If that was the decision, it

:44:25.:44:29.

would have been made for a reason. What law is alleged to have been

:44:29.:44:35.

broken? I have not seen the Falkirk report, I do not expect the leader

:44:36.:44:40.

of the Labour Party would call the police in likely, now it is up to

:44:41.:44:43.

the police to investigate without interference. What you have seen

:44:43.:44:48.

over the last few days is that this party takes this sort of thing

:44:48.:44:52.

really seriously. You will seize on concrete recommendations from Ed

:44:52.:44:57.

Miliband about how we will rebuild democracy within our party. Without

:44:57.:45:00.

ending the link with ordinary working people across this country

:45:00.:45:04.

who rely on both the Labour Party and the unions for a better life. I

:45:04.:45:08.

wish we could say the same from other political parties. We have not

:45:08.:45:12.

been that openness or acceptance from the Conservatives about their

:45:12.:45:22.
:45:22.:45:31.

It is true that if you're going to reduce unions' of undue political

:45:31.:45:35.

influence and been s'like selection, you are going to have to clear up

:45:35.:45:45.
:45:45.:45:45.

your own house? -- in things like. It is overriding Ed Miliband

:45:45.:45:51.

because he is too weak. Many of these people may go on to become

:45:51.:45:56.

MPs. The local Labour Party is very weak on the ground. It shows

:45:56.:46:05.

effectively between two Unite candidates and one of them won. The

:46:05.:46:13.

a list was given by Central Office. There is no mention of impropriety.

:46:13.:46:19.

The unions tell Labour MPs how to vote. The Labour Party is

:46:19.:46:23.

controlled by the unions and they're giving parliamentary passes

:46:23.:46:29.

to union representatives. How do you explain the fact that Michael

:46:29.:46:36.

Gove recently made John Nash - one of the biggest donors and minister

:46:36.:46:41.

in the House of Lords - he put one of the biggest Tory Party donors

:46:41.:46:51.
:46:51.:46:52.

into education? I work with him. Both parties have links with donors.

:46:52.:46:58.

John Nash is hoping to secure a new free school. I am grateful for the

:46:58.:47:07.

expertise he brings to the role. is about exerting influence.

:47:07.:47:12.

accept that. Which donors make donations to all the political

:47:12.:47:20.

parties. -- rich donors. There is no suggestion that rich donors in

:47:20.:47:27.

the Conservative Party are choosing the MPs. Unions are not rich donors.

:47:27.:47:31.

They are made up of individuals paying an individual levy to the

:47:31.:47:36.

trade union. They have a ballot about whether they want to donate

:47:36.:47:43.

to the Labour Party. All the money they give is to the Labour Party.

:47:43.:47:50.

There is a ballot. There is a huge issue here. It comes partly to

:47:50.:47:57.

political funding. I think the real problem with the influence within

:47:57.:48:01.

Labour - unions do some fantastic work - I am very pleased with some

:48:01.:48:07.

of it. They are getting too big and too powerful. They have incredibly

:48:07.:48:13.

well-paid bosses. It is really tricky for Ed Miliband. He did not

:48:13.:48:19.

win the vote among MPs. He did not win the vote among the Labour Party.

:48:20.:48:25.

Allegations work it was the unions that gave them victory. I really

:48:25.:48:31.

hope one of the things we can do is that we can change how party

:48:31.:48:37.

funding works. It should have been bowled together for them,

:48:37.:48:47.
:48:47.:48:48.

particularly when Unite accept the majority of members vote Labour.

:48:48.:48:55.

is a very important issue. Is that why he is doing it? It is very

:48:55.:49:02.

important. When I first came out, we all thought when Labour Party is

:49:02.:49:06.

controlled by the unions. More and more has been revealed. They are

:49:06.:49:12.

controlling individual selection. It has been revealed the number of

:49:12.:49:18.

union officials which have been given parliamentary passes coast to

:49:18.:49:28.
:49:28.:49:31.

the heart of the Labour Party. -- goes to the heart. In terms of

:49:31.:49:36.

retaining grassroots support, it is failing. It is about keeping

:49:36.:49:42.

grassroots Tories on board. A survey shows a 19% of Tory members

:49:42.:49:49.

are seriously considering poking UKIP and others think they're not

:49:49.:49:59.
:49:59.:49:59.

being respected by the leadership. I do not know how many members were

:49:59.:50:03.

polled. I accept it on the face of it but this Bill is about the

:50:03.:50:09.

commitment made by David Cameron about negotiating the relationship

:50:09.:50:13.

again with the European Union. It would be put to a boat and it would

:50:13.:50:23.
:50:23.:50:27.

be an inn/apt choice. -- 8 vote. Youth -- you accept this? I do not

:50:27.:50:33.

think so. It was long before this issue really arose. I am pleased to

:50:33.:50:38.

be bringing it forward. Over a generation of people have not had a

:50:38.:50:43.

say in membership. It has been painful to see the Conservatives

:50:43.:50:47.

try to cope with this. It really is a desperate attempt to tried to

:50:47.:50:56.

play Kate UKIP. That is a great shame. -- tried to placate UKIP.

:50:56.:51:02.

There should be a referendum when there is a transfer of power. But

:51:02.:51:10.

does what we passed into law in the European Union Act of 2011. I think

:51:10.:51:17.

that is right. I wanted to be an in/out referendum. We benefit

:51:17.:51:20.

massively from being within Europe. That has to be when there was

:51:20.:51:27.

something to be discussed. It was incredibly damaging. It hits the

:51:27.:51:32.

economy and confidence. We see that obsession throughout the

:51:32.:51:35.

Conservatives. Police say if we get rid of the European arrest warrant,

:51:35.:51:42.

it will be harder for people to get justice. Ates a simple concession

:51:42.:51:50.

with the Conservatives. the survey demonstrates people do not believe

:51:50.:51:55.

David Cameron when he says at some point there will be a referendum.

:51:55.:52:05.
:52:05.:52:08.

The number of Liberal Democrats campaigned against the referendum.

:52:08.:52:11.

The Liberal Democrats campaigned for it. They have changed their

:52:11.:52:16.

mind. People do not trust politicians of all parties. It is a

:52:16.:52:22.

good thing to show intent. This is meant to be Conservative Party

:52:22.:52:27.

policy, whether it is successful or not. It is not about to enshrining

:52:27.:52:31.

in law the guarantee the British people will be given a say on and

:52:31.:52:40.

in/out for it. No parliament can bind its successor. It is not a

:52:40.:52:47.

complete guarantee? It is as close as it can be. Will Labour off and

:52:47.:52:53.

in/out referendum? I agree with what Julian said about offering a

:52:53.:52:57.

referendum at point where there is a transfer of powers. It is the

:52:57.:53:01.

wrong priority at the wrong time. We have 1 million people in this

:53:01.:53:06.

country who cannot get a job, who were desperately trying because the

:53:06.:53:11.

economy is in such a mess. It is about the Tory Party talking about

:53:11.:53:15.

their own priorities. They should concentrate on rebuilding the

:53:15.:53:19.

economy. An increasing number of Labour MPs are calling for an

:53:19.:53:25.

in/out referendum. Discussions privately article 4 and in/out

:53:25.:53:35.

election before the next election. -- are for and in/out election.

:53:35.:53:40.

colleague is also drawn in the private member's ballot. He has

:53:40.:53:44.

brought in a cap on excessive charges from legal loan sharks.

:53:44.:53:49.

That issue was huge in Wigan and across the country. We should make

:53:49.:53:55.

these things a priority. Do you think Labour will often this?

:53:55.:54:00.

have not ruled it out but there is the real issue about the economy in

:54:00.:54:07.

getting it back on track. That has to be the top priority. Stay with

:54:07.:54:10.

us. Now, it may be called the mother of parliaments but sometimes

:54:10.:54:12.

the behaviour of its members is less than edifying. And Julian

:54:12.:54:15.

Huppert here has been on the receiving end of some their more

:54:15.:54:25.
:54:25.:54:26.

childish outbursts There is just The energy bill is legislating to

:54:26.:54:34.

force energy companies to give people the lowest tariffs. I am

:54:34.:54:40.

sorry, Mr Speaker. It is very discourteous of the house to issue

:54:40.:54:50.
:54:50.:54:51.

a collective groan. -- the House. Notably, on the opposition benches.

:54:51.:54:56.

It is quite inexplicable. I have called the good doctor. Let's hear

:54:56.:55:05.

from him. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is National carers

:55:05.:55:12.

Week. Will the Prime Minister join me in paying tribute...? If the

:55:12.:55:15.

session has to be extended to accommodate the democratic rights

:55:15.:55:22.

of members, it will be extended. The Honourable Gentleman will - are

:55:22.:55:32.
:55:32.:55:35.

repeat will - be heard. Thank you. Two days ago it saw the start of

:55:35.:55:43.

independent retailers month. How do you characterise that behaviour?

:55:43.:55:49.

is clearly inappropriate - Beatty's bullying. It moves around. The

:55:49.:55:57.

Elizna Naude sexist behaviour and deeply rude behaviour. -- deeply

:55:58.:56:04.

rude. I have made comments it was bullying. It is fine. I will keep

:56:04.:56:08.

going. It must make you feel pretty dreadful. And number of people have

:56:08.:56:13.

come up to me and thanked me for commenting on it. They choose not

:56:13.:56:18.

to stand up on speed because of the atmosphere. To get more women into

:56:18.:56:24.

Parliament, we have to show it is a mature place. Do you agree with

:56:24.:56:30.

that? It does seem extremely pathetic. I would say PMQs is a

:56:30.:56:35.

national embarrassment. It shows the worst of politics. One thing I

:56:35.:56:40.

have been surprised about since I got elected is how much the party's

:56:40.:56:43.

work cross-party and with other people from other size to get

:56:43.:56:47.

through things in the national interest. Parties what we need to

:56:47.:56:54.

be showing. Not that childish behaviour. There is a difference

:56:54.:57:01.

between that sort of cheering for an individual - at the Theatre of

:57:01.:57:07.

PMQs - it is quite interesting and entertaining. It is an

:57:07.:57:13.

embarrassment. There will be those who can see it differently. This

:57:13.:57:19.

barracking of individual MPs is totally unacceptable, isn't it?

:57:19.:57:23.

is. I do not entirely agree that Prime Minister's Questions is a

:57:23.:57:28.

national embarrassment. The mood of the House is important. You get a

:57:28.:57:32.

feel of what other people think by what is happening around you. It is

:57:32.:57:40.

quite isolated. What breaks through is the feeling as to how the House

:57:40.:57:45.

reacts. It should not be aimed at an individual. That aspect is wrong.

:57:45.:57:55.
:57:55.:57:58.

Theatre of Parliament is part of it. Has John Bercow helped matters?

:57:58.:58:02.

think it is a very tough job for the Speaker to try to control

:58:02.:58:06.

things. He has not always done things I consider most helpful. We

:58:07.:58:11.

want to keep energy but it should be about responding to what people

:58:11.:58:21.
:58:21.:58:26.

say. It needs to stop for everybody. . The question was Fred Perry was

:58:26.:58:29.

the last Brit to win Wimbledon 77 years ago. Which of these facts

:58:29.:58:32.

about life in Britain in 1936 is not true? A) university graduates

:58:32.:58:36.

had two votes. B) a loaf of bread cost 4.5 pence. C) Women had to

:58:36.:58:39.

have a licence to wear trousers in public. Or d) the average house

:58:39.:58:42.

price was �550. Probably the women. Well done. You are right. Thank you

:58:42.:58:47.

to my three guests - the three MPs. For 1 o'clock News is starting over

:58:47.:58:54.

Jo Coburn is joined by Geraldine Bedell, editor of Gransnet, to discuss the latest political news. There is a look at whether the baby boomers have had things all their own way with the author of Jilted Generation, Ed Howker.


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