Browse content similar to 28/01/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics. | :00:39. | :00:43. | |
Economic growth returns to the UK, with figures out this morning | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
showing Britain's economy growing at the fastest rate since 2007. But | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
Vince Cable is still gloomy, warning the recovery could be short-lived. | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
The Royal Household is criticised by MPs for not doing enough to save | :00:58. | :01:00. | |
taxpayers' money. The Public Accounts Committee wants Buckingham | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
Palace to be opened to more paying visitors, to fund improvements to | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
the royal estate. How much energy could we produce | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
from renewable sources? The leader of the Green Party, Natalie Bennett, | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
joins us live. And, what's the best way for MPs to | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
connect with voters? We'll debate whether TV appearances or | :01:19. | :01:20. | |
old-fashioned door-knocking are better for getting in touch with the | :01:21. | :01:22. | |
electorate. All that in the next hour. | :01:23. | :01:33. | |
And, with us for the whole programme today is the Conservative | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
backbencher Nadine Dorries. Welcome to the Daily Politics. | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
First, it seems that no-one in the country is safe from a ticking off | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
from the Labour MP Margaret Hodge, not even Her Majesty. The chair of | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
the Public Accounts Committee has criticised Buckingham Palace for not | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
managing its finances properly, after overspending the Sovereign | :01:51. | :02:06. | |
Grant by almost ?2.5 million. The balance is at an all-time low of | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
?1 million. At the same time they are spending more than they are | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
getting, the condition of many of the royal buildings means you have | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
got to invest. The boilers in Buckingham Palace are 60 years old | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
which means bills are very high. You look at the Victoria and Albert | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
mausoleum, we have known for 18 years that structure needs | :02:33. | :02:34. | |
investment yet they have done nothing. The bathrooms in Windsor | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
Castle, the rain coming through in the art gallery in Buckingham | :02:40. | :02:45. | |
Palace. All of these are serious issues which need to be addressed. | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
We've been joined by Graham Smith from the pressure group Republic, | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
which campaigns for an end to the monarchy. Welcome to the Daily | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
Politics. Spending above their means, not | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
making the necessary savings, it is the Royal Household worth it? | :03:03. | :03:08. | |
I felt embarrassed listening to this list of repairs to Royal buildings | :03:09. | :03:12. | |
that we have not funded as a country. What the Royal family does | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
for us is beyond explanation. They bring in investment, tourism, they | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
put this little island of England on the world map. They are something we | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
should be proud of. I love the Royal family. I am embarrassed that a | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
60-year-old boiler exists in Buckingham Palace which has not been | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
repaired and they have huge heating bills. | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
Do they not take responsibility for that themselves? | :03:42. | :04:01. | |
If they decided to undertake that schedule of repairs, people on this | :04:02. | :04:03. | |
programme and the media would be in Opera at the expenditure. We have to | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
take it on the chin. Lots of people in this country think they are worth | :04:07. | :04:09. | |
it and have no objection with the investment we need to put in. | :04:10. | :04:11. | |
We need to separate two issues, the historic Royal buildings which | :04:12. | :04:13. | |
belong to the British people, we have a responsibility to maintain | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
them. Clearly the Royal Household isn't up to that job, it is time for | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
the government to take them off their hands. To make them revenue | :04:19. | :04:25. | |
neutral at the Tower of London is so the taxpayer doesn't need to stump | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
up more cash. The other costs. The cost every year of the monarchy is | :04:32. | :04:37. | |
well over ?200 million. You include things like the income from the | :04:38. | :04:40. | |
duchies of Cornwall and Lancaster which belong to the nation but given | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
to the Royal family, security costs, the cost of police forces, taxes | :04:46. | :04:53. | |
unpaid. A large amount of money. Equivalent to thousands of nurses or | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
doctors. Nadine says they are worth it, because of the attractiveness. | :04:58. | :05:05. | |
It is beyond explanation, because it is not true. There is no evidence. | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
If we get rid of the monarchy, is there any evidence tourism would go | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
down? It is not a little family put on the map by the Royal family. This | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
is a big, exciting country which we have put on the map ourselves. Where | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
we promote tourism and businesses. This has nothing to do with the | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
people who live in Buckingham Palace. Is your evidence is | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
anecdotal? Look at our movie industry alone. The number of | :05:37. | :05:43. | |
visitors to Buckingham Palace, Windsor. They go there because of | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
the history associated with them. We have thousands of years of royal | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
history that other countries have abandoned. They don't have it. We | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
can get rid of the Royal family which is what many families have | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
done. Do they have the amount of tourism and interest? France has a | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
huge tourism industry. Not based around their Royal Family. This | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
isn't actually about politics and power, it is an institution part of | :06:18. | :06:28. | |
our political system. Powers are invested in the Royals. These issues | :06:29. | :06:39. | |
of power and politics, it makes the tourism argument vacuous. There is | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
no evidence we would lose tourism revenue if the Royals did not live | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
in those houses. The history would still be there. The crowds would | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
still be there. We're not going to get a Republic | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
any time soon. Because the British people don't want it. So you say. If | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
we look at the Royal Household, Nadine, you said, to posh boys who | :07:00. | :07:05. | |
didn't know the price of milk. Shouldn't they cut their crop -- cut | :07:06. | :07:13. | |
their cloth in the same way others have. | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
They have been come every time there has been a report or analysis of | :07:16. | :07:21. | |
their budget, they make savings. In terms of their costs, they are going | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
up. The cost of keeping the Royal family secure and protected, I have | :07:27. | :07:31. | |
no complaint with that. I am sure there are many millions of British | :07:32. | :07:43. | |
people have no complaint. These figures are hugely inflated because | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
there are costs for people we do not know of, like Princess Alexandra. | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
The PAC has said there had been savings but not enough. The | :07:55. | :08:01. | |
Sovereign Grant will always go up because it is paid to property | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
values. If you look at Prince Charles who spent ?30,000 of public | :08:07. | :08:09. | |
money on a four-day private holiday to Scotland, that is the waste, if | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
an MP did that, they would be in jail. Why do we challenge them in | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
the same way? What about opening up Buckingham Palace more, one | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
suggestion. You mentioned the Tower of London which is open most of the | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
year. Couldn't the palace be opened significantly more to raise | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
much-needed funds to repair it? I have no issue with that. That is a | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
discussion based around practicalities, security when the | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
Royal Family are in residence. Something for those... So you say | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
they could generate more money. But I am against again -- this attack | :08:51. | :08:58. | |
against the Royal Family. Look at the wedding. Nine years ago, MPs | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
said they wanted the palace to be open all year round, and they said | :09:06. | :09:11. | |
no. But it is their home. It is ridiculous. It is the headquarters, | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
in the same way as the Vatican is the headquarters of the Pope. Those | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
buildings are open all year round to tourists. We could have millions | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
paying for the upkeep through ticket sales. How much do you think Britain | :09:24. | :09:28. | |
benefited from the Jubilee, the royal wedding? How many people do | :09:29. | :09:36. | |
think indirectly benefited? The CBI said an extra public holiday wipes | :09:37. | :09:43. | |
off billions of pounds from the Jewish economy. So there is no | :09:44. | :09:49. | |
evidence. Tourism figures on an annual basis. I think... Hang on, we | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
have to leave it there. It's time for our daily quiz. The | :09:53. | :09:59. | |
question for today is: What has been spotted in the tea room in the House | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
of Commons? Was it: A cockroach. A snake. | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
A mouse. A tarantula? | :10:07. | :10:11. | |
At the end of the show, Nadine will give us the correct answer. | :10:12. | :10:16. | |
The growth figures are out, and are being pored over by politicians and | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
economists up and down the country. Napoleon said we were a nation of | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
shopkeepers, so how is UK Ltd doing? David Cameron and George Osborne can | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
point to some pretty good figures. In the last quarter of 2013, | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
Britain's economy grew by 0.7%. That compares with 0.8% from the previous | :10:35. | :10:43. | |
quarter. And it will mean in total the economy grew by 1.9% in 2013, | :10:44. | :10:46. | |
the best annual performance since 2007. However, there's still a lot | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
more work to do for the managers of UK Ltd. The economy is still 1.3% | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
smaller than in the beginning of 2008 when the economic crisis began. | :10:57. | :10:59. | |
What's more, some commentators are raising concerns that the recovery | :11:00. | :11:07. | |
is too concentrated in London. A report published yesterday by the | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
Centre For Cities think tank found that 79% of private sector jobs were | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
created in London, nearly ten times more than the next best area. There | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
are also fears it's the wrong kind of growth. Whilst the service sector | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
is doing well, manufacturing is still 8.2% lower than it was before | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
recession hit. Then, there are fears of a housing bubble. | :11:28. | :11:34. | |
Speaking to the BBC last night, the Business Secretary Vince Cable said | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
that, whilst we're on the right track, he does have concerns. | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
It hasn't yet got the shape of recovery that we want. We are | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
beginning to see a real revival, and that is really positive, good news. | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
I don't want to minimise that in any way. To be sustainable and last in | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
the long term, we need strong, consistent growth of exports, we | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
haven't got that. Businesses investing in large amounts of money | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
in the long term. At the moment, a lot are discouraged by over the | :12:09. | :12:15. | |
European Union and what the Labour Party is saying about stifling | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
energy investment. We need investment confidence. And to stop a | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
repetition of the property boom and bust of the past. | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
With us now is the economist and financial journalist Liam Halligan. | :12:27. | :12:28. | |
And, joining us from Merseyside is Joe Anderson, the Mayor of | :12:29. | :12:35. | |
Liverpool. Nadine, it is the government, within | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
government, Vince Cable, already warning despite great figures, we | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
could be running into the same problems and conditions that got us | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
into this mess. I don't know what it will take to make Vince Cable smile. | :12:50. | :12:56. | |
It is good news, it is growing faster than we thought. Unemployment | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
is down at an all-time low, down to 2.3 million. More people in work | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
today than we have ever had in work in the UK ever. It is a good news | :13:08. | :13:13. | |
story and a developing story. The economy has grown the fastest since | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
2007 in terms of GDP. It is part of the developing good news story. | :13:21. | :13:26. | |
Are you feeling it in Merseyside? It would be easy for me to dismiss | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
those figures and talk about part-time work, zero hour contracts | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
within the city. We are a city that is growing, we | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
are doing a great deal to make that happen, creating conditions, | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
confidence. My argument is, this is a government that came to power, | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
promising it would devolve powers and more resources, and | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
decentralised, create localism, and it is not. For me, I want our city | :13:57. | :14:03. | |
to be able to have more of its own resources to spend, in a way that | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
creates the regeneration, infrastructure, the right conditions | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
for growth for businesses to come. I guess, it is both parties, not just | :14:13. | :14:17. | |
the Conservatives who are in control, but labour previously have | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
not accepted that cities in themselves have a right to grow and | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
are part equally with the capital. Like a car with a pristine engine | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
but flat tyres. Liverpool can actually play a better role -- role | :14:34. | :14:41. | |
in helping the UK grow. The Chancellor always talks about | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
trickle-down economics. If London is booming in the south-east, it will | :14:47. | :14:50. | |
be a driver for the rest of the country. But there are problems, | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
Vince Cable talks about the economy remaining 1.3% smaller than the | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
prerecession peak in 2008. Various parts of the coming are not faring | :15:01. | :15:07. | |
well. Relying on the service sector, not manufacturing. | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
There's a lot in that. We've had the best performance for six years. | :15:14. | :15:19. | |
Let's see it within ourselves to celebrate that. But any objective | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
observer has to say that the eat -- the economic recovery has been | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
rather in balanced. The manufacturing sector remains almost | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
7% lower than it was at its pre-crisis peaked. The construction | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
sector is over 11% below where it was in balanced. The manufacturing | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
sector remains almost 7% lower than it was at its precrisis peak. The | :15:38. | :15:39. | |
construction sector is over 11% below where it was and it precrisis | :15:40. | :15:42. | |
peak. A lot of this growth we are seeing as financial services, which | :15:43. | :15:44. | |
is generally a London centric activity. There are some pretty big | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
blots on the landscape. The latest trade figures have a big loud. They | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
show September to November, our trade deficit widening. It strikes | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
me also that bank lending, and I think this is really where Vince | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
Cable is probing, it has continued to contract. Yes, mortgage lending | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
has been higher, driven by Funding for Lending and so on, but housing | :16:08. | :16:17. | |
demand... Housing supply has been stagnant and even contracting. It is | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
a rather in balanced recovery, despite these good headline numbers. | :16:24. | :16:27. | |
It is imbalanced, there are weaknesses, it's not the economy | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
that the Government promised. What we have is the risk of an | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
overheating housing market concentrated again in London and the | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
south-east, and the risk of it not being sustainable. We promised a | :16:39. | :16:43. | |
rebalanced economy by 2018. We've only been in power for almost four | :16:44. | :16:47. | |
years. That's because George Osborne failed on every single measure that | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
he put in place in his emergency budget in 2010. You may say that the | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
things are doing much better now. You are right about the banks and | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
lending. One of the problems is we've seen many more small and | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
medium businesses growing and creating more jobs. If we could get | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
the part blow to those businesses from the banks, one of the problems | :17:08. | :17:11. | |
is the banks are still reticent to lend to business. That's almost like | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
a cork in the bottle that has to go, to get even more growth coming | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
through the other end. It is a good news story, we mustn't talk down. | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
Are better now than they have been for a long time. And they are | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
especially better in Liverpool. Liverpool is the most fantastic city | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
on the planet. But your city is growing, you have a massive Hummer | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
flagship store that has taken on almost 1000 people there. What about | :17:39. | :17:46. | |
making some things we can export? If you visited Liverpool ten years | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
ago, I remember growing up in Liverpool, the difference to what it | :17:51. | :17:56. | |
is today. Your city is rocking. Isn't it all about our resumption of | :17:57. | :18:00. | |
consumer spending? That's all that's happening, and they are adding to | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
their own private debt. Wii absolutely, that's the point. When | :18:05. | :18:09. | |
Nadine talks about promising it in 2018, everyone can see it's a | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
trajectory. Wii it will continue to fail. If you look at Liverpool and | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
the regeneration that has taken place in Liverpool, it's as a result | :18:20. | :18:23. | |
of my investment, as a result of the city's investment. . We have a | :18:24. | :18:31. | |
fantastic dock. We have an arena and Convention Centre. We are borrowing | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
?40 million and investing it in a new exhibition Centre. It is | :18:36. | :18:41. | |
bringing in a 4-star hotel. They are creating 300 jobs. We are doing that | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
in other parts of the city. What my argument is that if government | :18:46. | :18:48. | |
allows cities to do more themselves, I know better than Whitehall | :18:49. | :18:55. | |
ministers what is best for my city and where the growth is. The | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
government thinks that councils like yours need to be cut back, they need | :18:59. | :19:01. | |
to spend less, they need to be able to do these things with less money | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
because there is too much waste. . We are both on the same page in | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
terms of councils and cities becoming more sustainable. I accept | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
that. What my point is if they want that, and I want that, then they've | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
got to allow us to achieve that. The way to do that is by allowing us to | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
spend the money and taxes. The government take probably a 78% of | :19:27. | :19:32. | |
the funding, the taxes, all of the taxes we generate in Liverpool away | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
from us and then deposit back. We want to be able to control a lot | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
more of that, so we can create the economic conditions for growth and | :19:40. | :19:42. | |
getting new businesses into our city. We are doing that, but we can | :19:43. | :19:48. | |
do much, much more. Is it true to say that this recovery, if it | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
continues, is only benefiting one area of the country, and that cities | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
like Liverpool, although they are doing better, are not going to be | :19:57. | :20:04. | |
able to reach their full potential on the basis of the policies that | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
are in place at the moment? I think that is fair. I was up in the | :20:08. | :20:10. | |
north-east at the end of last year and I met some of the most | :20:11. | :20:12. | |
impressive entrepreneurs I've ever met anywhere in the world. And yet | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
it's very difficult for them to raise capital because banks don't | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
want to lend, and a lot of long-term capital in this country is rather | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
unimaginative. Here are some numbers that aren't in the ONS press | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
release, these are from the World Bank database. Gross investment in | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
advanced countries around the world between 2009 to 2000 ten. Spain and | :20:32. | :20:41. | |
France up. Autonomy is we deride, Germany 18%. The UK, 13%. Our | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
investment in this country is at the lowest as it's been as a share of | :20:48. | :20:54. | |
GDP since 1952. Wide? Because the banking sector continues to be | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
broken. RBS have made a provision of biblical proportions last night. I'm | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
sorry, Nadine, it's great to have you on the show, Rocard fuelling the | :21:03. | :21:09. | |
economy, good for you, but I don't think our political leaders are | :21:10. | :21:11. | |
getting in there and getting stuck in and really fixing our banking | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
sector. Its casting an enormous Powell across the British economy | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
and the eurozone economy. Our biggest export destination is the | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
eurozone. It is tremendously difficult to get investment going in | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
the eurozone because they've got these huge banking stress tests | :21:27. | :21:29. | |
coming down the track this coming autumn. Until that happens, and the | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
danger of systemic spasms is over, people won't invest. In the | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
meantime, Labour is gaining credit for cost of living crisis that they | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
are putting to the Government. I don't think they are gaining credit | :21:44. | :21:50. | |
for it. They certainly have taken that agenda forward because the | :21:51. | :21:52. | |
Government has been accused of following it. Any political argument | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
which lands on the kitchen table of any home in Britain has resonance. | :21:59. | :22:07. | |
George Osborne has frozen fuel tax, so by 2015, people will be ?11 | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
better off every time they develop their tanks with fuel. That | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
resonance. That is a policy where you can see the cash in your hand | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
that you are saving, from policies that are happening now from a | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
government that promises for the future. But be no real wages have | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
fallen and are continuing to fall, despite these patents that the | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
Government are putting forward, which are all out of borrowed money. | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
They are predicting it will come up in terms of wages versus prices. As | :22:38. | :22:42. | |
long as we can keep the lid on inflation. Inflation is at 2%. You | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
are quite right over the banks. I get it in the neck for highlighting | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
it constantly but I'm not going to stop. We will be talking to Chris | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
Leslie a little later in the programme. Now for today's big | :22:59. | :23:05. | |
political news. Yes, it's the Lib Dem deputy leadership election, with | :23:06. | :23:08. | |
Lib Dem MPs voting for someone to replace Simon Hughes as the party's | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
number two. Vicky Young is outside Parliament and can tell us more. Is | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
everyone on the edge of their seats at Westminster? They are talking of | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
little else. This election going on today, very small but select band of | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
electorate, just the 56 Lib Dem MPs get to vote on all of this. It is | :23:29. | :23:34. | |
single transferable vote, you wouldn't expect any less from the | :23:35. | :23:38. | |
Liberal Democrats. There are some art can bruise, and MP for more than | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
30 years, although he is standing down at the next election. He is | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
also the chair of the International development committee. Gordon | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
Birtwistle, he is the MP for Burnley. But the bookies' | :23:50. | :23:57. | |
favourite, Lori Birt. She is the front runner. The eagle eyed amongst | :23:58. | :24:03. | |
you will notice she is a woman. She has said that the Lib Dems very much | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
need a woman in a top team. Some will say she's perfectly qualified. | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
Her first job was as assistant governor at Holloway prison. She's | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
also got a degree in economics. She's got an award-winning training | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
company and is used to fighting hard against the Tories. The majority in | :24:21. | :24:26. | |
her seat of Solihull is just 175 votes. So she is a tough fighter. | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
The serious point is as deputy leader of the Liberal Democrats, | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
they would have quite a high profile, being in the media a lot | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
more. The Lib Dems very much under the cosh about not having much | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
diversity in their party, certainly not many female MPs, only seven, and | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
none of them really in high profile positions. The result is due at 6pm. | :24:48. | :24:54. | |
They might put a press release out. So you can't even go to the grand | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
unveiling. What is the mood like amongst Lib Dem MPs at the moment, | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
bearing in mind it has been difficult for the party in recent | :25:02. | :25:07. | |
times? They have been criticised for the way they have reacted to those | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
accusations against Chris Rennard and Mike Hancock, both of whom | :25:11. | :25:14. | |
denied the allegations against them. I think it is a bit of a | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
symptom of the party, the way it works. They have this democratic | :25:19. | :25:23. | |
process. Very much that people on councils make their own decisions, | :25:24. | :25:27. | |
and that has made it difficult for Nick Clegg to be seen to get a grip | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
of this. They are facing a very difficult time come the next | :25:32. | :25:33. | |
election. But they very much be all they do have to get more women in | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
winnable seats, if there are many of those left for the Lib Dems. | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
Certainly they feel it would help to have a high profile woman on that | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
leadership team, which they just don't have. It looks very white and | :25:45. | :25:50. | |
very male at the moment. How much of our electricity could come from | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
renewable sources? Today a new offshore wind farm in the Irish Sea | :25:54. | :25:56. | |
will start generating electricity for the first time. When it reaches | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
full-strength, the wind farm, eight miles off the Cumbrian coast, will | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
have more than 100 turbines and generate enough electricity for | :26:04. | :26:04. | |
almost 300,000 homes. Britain currently leads the field in | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
offshore wind. Across the UK there are 3,400 turbines in total at 342 | :26:14. | :26:20. | |
different sites. Around 700 of the turbines are offshore, like those | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
which have started today. But wind power is not the only source of | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
renewable energy on the up in the UK, there's solar and tidal energy | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
as well. In fact, renewable energy accounted for 11.3% of UK | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
electricity generation in 2012. And it looks set to get bigger. At the | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
end of last year the Scottish government granted permission for | :26:45. | :26:47. | |
work to begin on the largest tidal energy project in Europe. But the | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
renewable energy companies now want to see the Government commit to | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
long-term offshore targets beyond 2030. This, they claim, will provide | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
real cost savings and allow for more investment in new technologies. | :27:02. | :27:07. | |
We're joined now by the Green Party leader, Natalie Bennett. We seem to | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
be making progress with green energy. Some would say that because | :27:16. | :27:19. | |
we've invested a lot of money in it. What price is it for consumers? We | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
are paying subsidies, companies are paying subsidies and people are | :27:25. | :27:28. | |
having their bills increased as a result. We have to remember that | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
this is a tiny percentage of the increase. The hugely -- leap we've | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
seen over the past decade, that is due to the rising price of gas. That | :27:38. | :27:40. | |
is a reflection of the fact we have to move away from fossil fuels. That | :27:41. | :27:53. | |
is the high cost, risky energy option. The thing about renewables | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
is certainly at the moment, per unit it is higher cost. But what we need | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
is a reliable energy source that we know the cost of. The question is | :28:00. | :28:01. | |
reliability. We are paying an average ?112 a year just for green | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
subsidies. Even if the main bit of the cost comes from rising energy | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
prices, you can understand the bitter taste people are left with | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
when that section of ?112 on average a year is just for green subsidies. | :28:14. | :28:19. | |
Green subsidies, about a third of that is for social subsidies, people | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
who are unable to afford their bills, so that help them. About a | :28:23. | :28:38. | |
further third of that is going into insulating our homes. That is the | :28:39. | :28:40. | |
real area of total Government policy failure, in that we are not moving | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
fast enough. By far the cheapest, as well as the greenest energy, is that | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
which you don't use. The green deal has been a disaster. What we need to | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
do to save people 's money and the long runners make sure they've got | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
energy efficient, affordable to heat homes. And that means well | :28:52. | :28:53. | |
insulated, well-prepared homes. We need a decent standard of homes we | :28:54. | :28:56. | |
haven't got at the moment. People have accused the Government of mixed | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
messages on this. Renewables are now providing 11% of our energy, is that | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
good news? The reason why the Government has pulled back on | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
insulating is because most homes are now insulated. The only ones that | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
aren't other difficult to reach and treat homes. Currently about a third | :29:15. | :29:20. | |
of our homes are in GE, H or F energy bands, which means they are | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
basically impossible to heat. A third of our homes are extremely | :29:25. | :29:29. | |
pour. I just know I had a meeting with the minister responsible for | :29:30. | :29:34. | |
this recently with an installation company in my constituency. My | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
insulation company agreed that most homes now insulated, apart from the | :29:38. | :29:47. | |
difficult to treat and reach. I think, on renewable energy, is the | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
reason we are here is because we have a European target that we have | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
to reach by 2020, of having 20% of our energy derived from renewables. | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
I think in 50 years time, generations in the future will look | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
back at pictures of those wind turbines and laugh. They will wonder | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
what on earth we were doing. We should be investing in nuclear power | :30:07. | :30:12. | |
and fusion power. Unfortunately, all our energy and investment is | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
diverted away from that former power because we have to reach this | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
arbitrary target set by the European Union. Do the government never | :30:20. | :30:23. | |
really believed in those targets, did they never really have a green | :30:24. | :30:29. | |
agenda? All of that boat blew, get green, is all a myth? We have to | :30:30. | :30:35. | |
meet the directive which has been set. I very much think we should be | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
channelling our thoughts, energy and investment towards a far cheaper, | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
far cleaner type of energy, which is far more efficient. Every time you | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
talk about fusion power someone tells you it's only four years away. | :30:49. | :30:53. | |
It's about 20 years away, as it has been for the past three or four | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
decades. The problem with renewables is the reliability. | :30:59. | :31:05. | |
The European point is important. We have the climate change bill which | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
demands we reduce our carbon emissions. The three large parties | :31:12. | :31:17. | |
agreed to that, recognising its importance to tackle climate change. | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
That is set in law by the European Union. This is the law agreed by the | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
British Parliament. Running in parallel with the directive, we | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
can't do anything else. If the EU says this, we have to pass a bill. | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
The physics also says we have to do that. The Green Party does state | :31:43. | :31:53. | |
that, but... There are other options now. Looking at shale gas, the | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
nuclear option. You could plug the gap, without investing more, without | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
asking consumers to pay more on their bills for further investment | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
in offshore, onshore wind and other renewables. In terms of wind, the | :32:10. | :32:15. | |
government has agreed a good strike price. Nuclear, there are issues | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
around safety, no plan for dealing with waste. The people of Cumbria | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
had strong words on that. Germany has turned its back. Indeed, as has | :32:26. | :32:33. | |
Japan. I have just been reading about Chernobyl. I am happy to park | :32:34. | :32:44. | |
all of those arguments and simply come to one point. The last two | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
plants have taken on average 14 years to build and 16 years to bring | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
online. Nuclear is way too slow to fill our energy gap now. It doesn't | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
provide any answers. The government prevaricated over its commitment to | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
nuclear, whether there should be a subsidy. Every government has | :33:06. | :33:11. | |
prevaricated. But they won't be online, on time. By the time the | :33:12. | :33:18. | |
nuclear power stations are finished building, we will need renewables, | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
there will be a gap. The only advantage from wind turbines is a | :33:26. | :33:29. | |
small amount of wind energy. Tidal wave power is doing better, I | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
believe, providing energy. What is the percentage from offshore wind? | :33:36. | :33:47. | |
About 5%. Barrow will provide an extra amount. We have rich offshore | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
resources. Look at Germany, China, the US. Racing ahead. They don't | :33:55. | :34:02. | |
have the wonderful wind resources and tidal resources. We are a tiny | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
island. We do not want our skyline blighted by these turbines? 64% of | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
UK adults according to one research, said they wanted | :34:17. | :34:20. | |
renewables installed between now and 2020, clean alternatives. If you | :34:21. | :34:28. | |
have specified, wind turbine? It depends how the question was asked. | :34:29. | :34:34. | |
I have not heard from anybody who lives within sight of a wind turbine | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
who is happy. Our population is growing. We have enough challenges, | :34:40. | :34:49. | |
we have very little... We do not want this blighted -- blighting our | :34:50. | :34:59. | |
views. There is an answer in terms of why we need to change the way we | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
build our renewable resources. The government has introduced a small | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
but good community energy policy this week. We need to recognise that | :35:10. | :35:16. | |
on the continent, communities compete to get wind farms, because | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
they are community owned and they see the benefit. Where people feel a | :35:22. | :35:33. | |
multinational company is imposed on them, they feel different. We will | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
have to leave it there. What would you do if you lived under | :35:37. | :35:46. | |
a repressive and unjust regime? In his new book, the former Labour | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
Cabinet Minister Peter Hain tells the story of his parents who were | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
forced to leave South Africa in the 1960s for their stand against | :35:54. | :35:56. | |
apartheid. In a moment, we'll be talking to Peter. | :35:57. | :36:43. | |
I'm joined now by Labour MP Peter Hain. Welcome. | :36:44. | :36:53. | |
How did your parents become involved in activism in South Africa? They | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
didn't start off political at all, there was nothing in the | :36:59. | :37:03. | |
background. Not members of parties or involved in local politics. | :37:04. | :37:07. | |
Nothing to suggest they would end up notorious and expelled from their | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
country. It was a sense of fairness, due to their upbringing, they | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
treated their fellow black countrymen and women more generously | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
and equally. What did they do? They began by simply joining the Liberal | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
party of South Africa, one of the anti-apartheid organisations. They | :37:31. | :37:34. | |
then leafleted, wrote letters to the newspapers, joined in meetings and | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
organised. We used to have black friends come through the front door | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
of our house. Which was unusual, I presume. Almost unknown, last -- and | :37:45. | :37:52. | |
then it led to their house being raided, they were arrested and | :37:53. | :38:00. | |
jailed being charged. Then, they were banned. My mother was issued | :38:01. | :38:04. | |
with a banning order which meant she couldn't take part in political | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
activity or even a social gathering. When we had diplomats at parties in | :38:10. | :38:13. | |
our house, I used to have to take them one by one into the kitchen. | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
She could only meet one diplomat at a time. The party was going on next | :38:18. | :38:25. | |
door. But she could only see one person at a time. Amazing they | :38:26. | :38:29. | |
allowed the party to take place. That wasn't illegal. Then, they | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
banned my dad. And he couldn't communicate with another band | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
person. When I asked, what did they do, you said they had a sense of | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
fairness, to treat their black staff fairly. I am sure there were quite a | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
lot of people like that. What drove them then to make more of a stand | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
over the issue of fairness and wanting equal rights for blacks? It | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
is a very good question and I don't entirely answered it in the book. | :39:02. | :39:08. | |
They were one of a tiny group of white South Africans, almost alone | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
among their relatives and friends, with the exception of my mother 's | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
younger sister, Joan. A lot of whites would say, we don't really | :39:17. | :39:21. | |
approve of apartheid but we are benefiting from it. We get on with | :39:22. | :39:28. | |
our lives. They took a stand and it led to progressively more | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
intimidation, threats against them, restrictions, and to ultimately they | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
stopped my father working as an architect, there was no income for | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
us and we had to leave in 1966. What was it likely you? It became part of | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
our lives. We had security police officers raiding in the early hours | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
of the morning. My parents subject to restrictions. Security police | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
cars sitting outside the front gates. It became part of the of | :39:55. | :40:01. | |
life. My brother and my two younger sisters were very supportive of my | :40:02. | :40:06. | |
parents, very proud of them. Obviously, we were different from | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
our friends. You had an understanding at an early stage of | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
your life of apartheid and its wrongs is to knock yes. I was | :40:17. | :40:20. | |
brought up to believe regardless of the colour of your skin, faith | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
politics, you should be treated equally. It was part of our DNA. | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
That was not the case for every one of my friends and virtually all our | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
relatives. Nadine, are you surprised there weren't more white activists | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
in South Africa. The books and films do chronicle the stories of people | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
who did fight against apartheid, but there weren't that many, are you | :40:46. | :40:52. | |
surprised? I lived in Central Africa for a while. It was such an | :40:53. | :40:57. | |
oppressive... Your parents were incredibly brave. It was such an | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
oppressive atmosphere from what I have heard. I remember getting my | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
first flat in London, and the couple are shared with had fled South | :41:08. | :41:13. | |
Africa and were of mixed race. Because it was impossible for them | :41:14. | :41:19. | |
to have been together in that country. Probably the white | :41:20. | :41:25. | |
community that... There was also a culture of, a long-term South | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
African white culture, imbued with apartheid. It was the best standard | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
of living in the world for the white community so why would they want to | :41:35. | :41:40. | |
change it? But there is another point. You take great risks when you | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
do this. The most interesting question about my parents is, why | :41:45. | :41:50. | |
they risked everything? Their lives, they had to flee the country of | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
their birth which they loved, risk the future of their family, their | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
jobs. Very few of us would do that to something we believe in. If you | :42:01. | :42:05. | |
look across the world, whether it is resistance to tyranny anywhere, very | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
few people actually take a stand. Even if the majority are suffering | :42:11. | :42:14. | |
from the very same. I am proud of my parents did so. Hence, I have | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
written the book. An ordinary couple who did extraordinary things. And | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
faced a lifetime of consequences. It was their values and sense of duty, | :42:27. | :42:33. | |
not big politics or ideology. That is the point about it. That makes it | :42:34. | :42:35. | |
a poignant story. Let's go back to our top story | :42:36. | :42:44. | |
today. The latest growth figures out this morning show the UK economy | :42:45. | :42:48. | |
grew in the last three months of 2013. In the last hour, the | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
Chancellor has been taking questions in the House of Commons. He was | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
understandably pleased with the figures. | :42:56. | :42:58. | |
These numbers are a boost for the economic security of hard-working | :42:59. | :43:02. | |
people. Growth is broadly based with manufacturing growing fastest of | :43:03. | :43:08. | |
all. It is more evidence that our long-term economic plan is working. | :43:09. | :43:13. | |
But the job is not done. And it is clear the biggest risk... He has | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
finished already! We've been joined by the Shadow | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Chris Leslie. | :43:22. | :43:31. | |
So, difficult for Labour, more good news, continual good economic news. | :43:32. | :43:37. | |
It is good we have 0.7%. The same figure, the level of | :43:38. | :43:44. | |
quarterly growth we had back in the second quarter of 2010 after the | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
general election, when the economy was beginning to recover. We know | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
the story, we had three years of stagnation. Let us hope these | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
statistics translate into real, meaningful improvements in living | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
standards the people. Our worry is, though, that so far the people who | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
are benefiting tend to be those who are the wealthier. Most people | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
watching will be waiting and saying, I am not feeling the | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
benefit. Do you think a 50p top rate of tax will help? | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
Yes. The wealthiest in society should pay a fairer share. To look | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
at some of the reactions from the right-wing press, you'd think this | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
was an astonishing change. But what we are talking about is on those | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
pounds that people learn, if they are lucky enough to earn ?150,000 | :44:38. | :44:43. | |
the amounts of money above that, instead of 45 pH should be 50p in | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
the pound, I don't think it's an unreasonable thing to ask, to make | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
sure we have the ability to protect some of those services and the most | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
vulnerable in society. But it's not just the right wing press, its | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
business leaders. Some of your own donors said it was extreme socialist | :45:02. | :45:06. | |
nonsense. Across the board in the city, enemy of business, labour is | :45:07. | :45:11. | |
anti-aspiration, punishing people earning lots of money. Is it your | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
intention to alienate the business community? No, it's not. All of the | :45:15. | :45:21. | |
people criticising tend to be beneficiaries of a tax cut if you | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
are on ?1 million income, for example, you get a tax cut of | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
?40,000. It's a very nice thing of you could have a tax cut of | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
?40,000, I just don't think it's fair at the same time you've got the | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
bedroom tax, cuts to tax credit, the rising VAT, where red is lower and | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
middle income people... George Osborne today wouldn't rule out | :45:46. | :45:52. | |
cutting it even further to 40p. Would you like to see it cut to 40p? | :45:53. | :45:59. | |
Can I just address the hypocrisy? I would like to see it cut. Can I just | :46:00. | :46:08. | |
say, all credit to you, is that New Labour is dead. Labour, when they | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
came in and 97, didn't introduce a 50p tax rate. They didn't do it in | :46:14. | :46:18. | |
2001, they didn't do it in 2005. They did it 100 days before the 2010 | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
election to appeal to your core vote. It was political and | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
ideological. For you to sit here now and talk about the 50p tax rate and | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
pulling it back, when you only put it in 100 days before the 2010 | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
election is so rich. I know that in the partisan world it is tempting | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
for the government to say that it was spending on schools and | :46:42. | :46:44. | |
hospitals that caused the deficit. The banking crisis came along... It | :46:45. | :46:52. | |
caused a deficit which needed to be repaired. It was only right to ask | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
the very wealthiest in society, the richest 1%. You do agree they should | :46:58. | :47:03. | |
be contributing something? You can understand why your constituents | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
don't want you obsessing about cutting their incomes, the richest | :47:08. | :47:11. | |
people 's tax take even more. Why shouldn't people... Why shouldn't | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
people, in this situation, as the recovery is trying to take hold, why | :47:20. | :47:23. | |
shouldn't people earning more than 150,000, less than 1% of the | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
population, pay more in tax? There's no proof that works. There's no | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
evidence that the Treasury receives any more money by doing that. That | :47:33. | :47:37. | |
comes back to the issue that this is bad economics. The ISS, I know you | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
dispute this, the figure that was raised, but the IDF S, very | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
respected Institute, says it only raised something in the region of | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
100 million a year. There's no proof of that. There is proof of 100 | :47:54. | :47:59. | |
million at least. The OBR say 3 million. -- 3 billion. The reason I | :48:00. | :48:10. | |
think it was so low, if George Osborne telegraphed to the | :48:11. | :48:13. | |
millionaires a year or maybe more that he was going to cut that | :48:14. | :48:16. | |
operate, what he has said to them is, if you can avoid paying your | :48:17. | :48:19. | |
bonuses till the day the tax cut comes in, you will do very well. | :48:20. | :48:24. | |
What did the statistics show about bonuses? They went up 82% the month | :48:25. | :48:31. | |
after that top rate came from 50p to 45p. There's a lot of staving off. | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
People avoiding that tax rate. Shouldn't be temporary or permanent? | :48:38. | :48:41. | |
We've said it should be for the lifetime of the next Parliament. | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
This government couldn't eradicate the deficit so we will finish the | :48:47. | :48:50. | |
job. There is a debate, in terms of the money raised, whether you would | :48:51. | :48:54. | |
make a big enough dent in the deficit on that alone. Let me come | :48:55. | :48:57. | |
back to the issue, why is Labour wanted to kill off business | :48:58. | :49:02. | |
investment and job creation at a time when growth has just returned? | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
I don't think that raising the top rate of tax the -- about ?150,000 to | :49:08. | :49:14. | |
50p would have that effect on business investment. For restart, | :49:15. | :49:18. | |
we're not seeing business investment exactly flourishing now. The GDP | :49:19. | :49:23. | |
figures show consumer fuel, not export or business investment | :49:24. | :49:25. | |
driven. If you look at the period, the three years when we did have the | :49:26. | :49:30. | |
50p rate in place, actually, the earnings of those above that | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
?150,000 level were up by 10 billion more than the Treasury expected. | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
Actually, there's no proof that it was that deterrent. Its popular. | :49:40. | :49:45. | |
Topline announcement sounds popular. I have to take issue on the fact | :49:46. | :49:48. | |
that you've said we live in different times and it was a result | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
of the banking crisis. You brought it in 100 days before the 2010 | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
election. The banking crisis and problems happened a long time before | :49:58. | :50:00. | |
that. What you did was political. I think what you are doing now was | :50:01. | :50:03. | |
political and I think you will pay for it. The attitude now that your | :50:04. | :50:07. | |
party is embracing as one of the days of Kinnock and extreme | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
left-wing politics. I think you will find you are losing the centre | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
ground, you've lost the New Labour project and you will pay for that in | :50:16. | :50:21. | |
the election. I would strongly advise you to do what George Osborne | :50:22. | :50:24. | |
did today. We didn't want to talk about the 50p rate at all, because | :50:25. | :50:29. | |
he knows the public want, guess, deficit reduction, but fair deficit | :50:30. | :50:34. | |
reduction. Can I ask about an adviser to Labour, Mr Arnie Graf? | :50:35. | :50:40. | |
Priti Patel, a Tory backbencher believes he may be working in the UK | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
illegally. What is the status of this man? I'm not party to his | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
immigration status. I only heard the story in passing on the news today. | :50:51. | :50:55. | |
Will you find out? And more than happy to look at it. The party has | :50:56. | :50:59. | |
already put out statements he has made. There's a bit of mischief | :51:00. | :51:06. | |
going on here by Priti Patel. When Conservative MP is start picking on | :51:07. | :51:12. | |
Labour advisers and so full, you can probably sense there's a little bit | :51:13. | :51:16. | |
of bias in what they are suggesting. Is she wrong to write to the UK | :51:17. | :51:21. | |
Border Agency? That's what Conservative MP 's do about Labour. | :51:22. | :51:26. | |
Labour would do -- never do it, would they? According to this, Mr | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
Graf advises the party on campaigning and visits the UK on a | :51:33. | :51:37. | |
business Visa. Party say they reimburse him for lost earnings and | :51:38. | :51:40. | |
expenses. It sounds like they pay him. Is there something that needs | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
to be investigated? So nobody is allowed to talk to anybody from | :51:47. | :51:49. | |
other countries? Lynton Crosby had quite a number of dealings in | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
Australia. Are we not supposed to have those conversations? I don't | :51:56. | :52:00. | |
think this is going to go very far. We've made them eat bugs, we've seen | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
them pretend to be pussycats - it seems as though some MPs will stop | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
at nothing to make the voters like them. Those, like our guest of the | :52:08. | :52:11. | |
day, Nadine Dorries, say they go on shows like I'm A Celebrity because | :52:12. | :52:15. | |
it helps them get their message across to an increasingly apathetic | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
public. Not all of her colleagues agree, to put it mildly, but where | :52:18. | :52:22. | |
they do concur is on the need for a greater connection between | :52:23. | :52:24. | |
politicians and the people. So what works, and what leaves a nasty taste | :52:25. | :52:37. | |
in the mouth? Here's David. If there's one thing politicians | :52:38. | :52:41. | |
really like, it's connecting with the lovely voters. If they could, | :52:42. | :52:45. | |
they'd shake everyone occupied the hand, preferably while kissing your | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
babies at the same time. The problem is they can't, so they are coming up | :52:50. | :52:53. | |
with ever more inventive ways of reaching out and showing they are | :52:54. | :53:01. | |
just like you and me. No politician worth his or his salt is now without | :53:02. | :53:05. | |
a Twitter account, holding forth on everything from the deficit to | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
Strictly Come Dancing. Talking of reality TV shows, here's an early | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
example of the genre, with Michael Portillo trying life as a single mum | :53:14. | :53:17. | |
in the 90s. Since then, do trips to the Big Brother house or the jungle | :53:18. | :53:21. | |
is all part of the plan to get down with voters. Do they work? Those | :53:22. | :53:26. | |
shows are entertainment based around a concept that you humiliate and | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
embarrass people. Politicians face more humour lesion and embarrass | :53:32. | :53:34. | |
anyway, they don't need more of that. What works well is where | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
politicians are talking about themselves as human beings and the | :53:38. | :53:40. | |
issues they are dealing with as politicians. It doesn't work well | :53:41. | :53:43. | |
when they are doing things like having to eat cockroaches live on | :53:44. | :53:48. | |
TV. Could that be more preferable to taking your chances every week on a | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
live phone in with voters? Do you approve of MPs using 10,000 pounds | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
of taxpayers' money for acting lessons? You Low we've seen how it | :53:59. | :54:02. | |
completely dominates the political news agenda for that morning or | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
sometimes all the way through the day. It allows Nick Clegg to set out | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
his position on issues, in a position where he is not completely | :54:10. | :54:13. | |
in control of the agenda because anyone can ring up and ask him any | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
question. But if there's a message she wants to get out, he can get it | :54:17. | :54:22. | |
out. Daewoo out the old school ways of keeping in touch. I like meeting | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
people in the street, knocking on doors. It humanises you and reminds | :54:28. | :54:31. | |
you where you came from and who you are. Holding an advice bureau, being | :54:32. | :54:35. | |
in the constituency is absolutely crucial to keeping your feet on the | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
ground and illustrating to people locally that you still care and are | :54:40. | :54:46. | |
still there. So what's next? Things like virtual town halls, if you run | :54:47. | :54:51. | |
MP in London representing a constituency many hundreds of miles | :54:52. | :54:54. | |
away, you could be in Parliament voting and debating, then in the | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
evening in the virtual town hall you can engage with your constituents, | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
even though they are at the other end of the country. That technology | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
is the future. It looks like MPs will continue to use methods, old, | :55:07. | :55:11. | |
new and, frankly, bizarre, to connect with you lucky voters, | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
whether you like it or not. And we've been joined by Michael White | :55:18. | :55:25. | |
from the Guardian. He's not wearing a tiger onesie, thank goodness! Do | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
you have any regrets about your time on reality TV? Gosh, no. Penny | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
Mordaunt doing splash recently, I don't think she is an MP in a | :55:38. | :55:45. | |
marginal seat. So it is about self-promotion? Yes, and then | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
looking what you does behind. More people know who she is, will be | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
interested and look at what she's doing as an MP. Therefore she is | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
being able to reach out to many voters. Somebody said on the film | :55:58. | :56:00. | |
just now, you've got to go and knock on the doors. We do that anyway, we | :56:01. | :56:04. | |
kissed the babies, we knock on the doors and talk to people, but we can | :56:05. | :56:17. | |
do other things as well. Because it clearly isn't enough on its own. I | :56:18. | :56:20. | |
agree with Nadine Dorries on most of that. It's not for the | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
faint-hearted, reality TV and live phone-ins. Should politicians be | :56:23. | :56:24. | |
doing it? Why not, if you're an extrovert. Michael Portillo, | :56:25. | :56:29. | |
introverted figure. The difference between Gordon Brown and Tony | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
Blair, won an extrovert... If you can carry it off, I didn't see | :56:35. | :56:39. | |
Nadine on I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here... The wonders of | :56:40. | :56:51. | |
YouTube! If you can carry it off and if the voters don't mind, if they | :56:52. | :56:55. | |
think she's doing a good job, they will re-elect her. Did she carry it | :56:56. | :57:01. | |
off? I don't know. The best person to judge that, it's not my kind of | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
show. If she gets re-elected, it's all part of the process, like social | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
media, tweeting, but it's dangerous. If you are not good at it, people | :57:11. | :57:15. | |
won't like it. Being voted off early on... On another programme, voted | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
off air, if you are a politician you will be voted off first. For me, | :57:24. | :57:28. | |
that was taken in to the whole process. Was an Widdicombe voted off | :57:29. | :57:35. | |
first? She stayed on for ages. Would you do another reality TV show? Not | :57:36. | :57:44. | |
while I'm an MP. There are two aspects to this. There is the media | :57:45. | :57:49. | |
and your constituents. All I can say is, if you'd read the media you | :57:50. | :57:53. | |
would have thought my constituents... I don't know the | :57:54. | :57:57. | |
exact figure, but somebody got a nationwide campaign up while I was | :57:58. | :58:01. | |
in the jungle to get me removed as an MP. 65 million people could vote. | :58:02. | :58:07. | |
There are 80,000 people in my constituency. I think they got | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
something like 400 signatures. The people loved it. So you are not | :58:12. | :58:15. | |
against them being on reality TV shows, it's just got to be the right | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
person? It's very risky. It sounds as if she got away with it, but | :58:22. | :58:25. | |
she's not doing it again. There's just time before we go to find out | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
the answer to our quiz. The question was... What has been spotted in the | :58:30. | :58:31. | |
tearoom in the House of Commons? I've seen a mouse on a daily basis. | :58:32. | :58:46. | |
It's so bold, it runs over your feet. You've seen it? I photographed | :58:47. | :58:58. | |
it, I put it on Twitter. I'll be back tomorrow. Goodbye. | :58:59. | :59:00. |