Browse content similar to 07/02/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
Afternoon folk, welcome to the Daily Politics. Floodwaters continue to | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
rise and so does the anger of people, as houses and fields have | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
been under water now for weeks. Are they paying the price for | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
Government and agencies too slow to act? | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
To clear your -- declare your love for Scotland the Prime Minister | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
tells the tens of millions of Brits without a vote in September's | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
Independence Referendum. Do the people of England, Wales and | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
Northern Ireland share the Prime Minister's passion? | :01:06. | :01:10. | |
A senior US diplomat in Ukraine apologises following an apparent | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
four letter outburst about the European Union. Just undiplomatic | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
language or signs of a deeper rift? And to infinity and beyond. Are the | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
billions ploughed into the European Space Agency money well spent? | :01:28. | :01:35. | |
So all that in the next hour, with us for the next half hour and firmly | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
on planet earth is the journalist and broadcaster Anne McElvoy, fresh | :01:42. | :01:51. | |
from her skiing last night. I am happy to be in a warm studio. Your | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
legs are intact? Just about. We sent her to hemle help stead, we couldn't | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
afford Sochi. The National Union of Teachers have announced a one day | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
strike in England and Wales over pay and conditions. It will be held on | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
the 26th mar. The other big teacher union the NASUWT is considering | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
whether to support the action. We are joined by the General Secretary | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
of the NUT Christine Blower. Welcome to the programme. Good afternoon. | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
You have been in talks with Michael Gove to try and avoid this strike | :02:24. | :02:26. | |
but it is a three year running dispute, is that right? We haven't | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
been in talks with Michael gov Gove, we had a meeting with imon October, | :02:32. | :02:36. | |
with civil servants or October 14th when we were offered Taub, since | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
then there have been no meetings and no talks. We would very much like | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
there to be talks, in order to resolve this dispute, because | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
clearly it has been going on much too long, and obviously things are | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
not good for teacher, so we would like to be involved in the talks at | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
the moment there maybe the offer only so talks for the unions but as | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
Francis O'Grady said, you, you resolve a dispute with the parties | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
to the dispute, so we need talks with Michael Gove, with ourselves | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
and the NASUWT. At the moment they are not on offer. It is about | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
performance-related pay. Am I not right in thinking that is a mer of | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
principle, you are against that? It is not all about that, it is about | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
workload and pension, the fact is many aspects of teacher's pay are | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
performance-related, but we are opposed to the linking of the new | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
appraisal scheme with the fact national pay arrangements have been | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
demolished. The fact 74% of teachers say morale has declined suggest they | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
are not happy either. So it is important that Michael Gove gets | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
round the table with ourself, and talks with us to resolve these | :03:48. | :03:53. | |
disputes. Are you in a position to negotiate over performance-related | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
pay? We are in a position to negotiation over what pay should | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
look like, as I say to you, the fact that teachers already have to pass | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
an induction year, in order to stay in the profession, so there is an | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
element of performance in there. What we cannot have is teachers' pay | :04:08. | :04:11. | |
linked to individual student performance, and the reason reason | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
we can't have that is there is no interhagsal evidence suggesting that | :04:17. | :04:19. | |
improves things for individual students. So there is no point in | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
having that -- international. What does the Education Secretary have to | :04:25. | :04:28. | |
do get you to call off the strike, at least temporarily? Well, of | :04:29. | :04:31. | |
course we have already called off strike action. When we went into the | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
initial phase of talks on October 14 th with civil servant, we didn't go | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
on strike, on November 27th. We thought talks were forthcoming. What | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
the Secretary of State has to do is engage in serious talks with us | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
about pay, pensions and conditions of service, but also, he has to not | :04:51. | :04:56. | |
make any damaging changes to teachers' conditions in the | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
forthcoming STRV report. We are prepared to stand down strike | :05:01. | :05:03. | |
action, but I think the Secretary of State needs to know that teachers' | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
morale is poor at the moment and they need to see quite a lot of | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
changes. If Mr Gove was here, is this, this strike, what he would | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
call the behaviour of the blob? I don't know what he would, there are | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
a lot of people included in the blob. Are you in the blob? I think | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
you are. Sometimes I am, sometimes I am not. I am actually very pleased | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
to be associated with a lot of people who are in the blob, but I | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
have to say, it is not the case that in other jurisdictions that | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Education Ministers go round insulting people who are really | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
engaged and enthusiastic about education. Professors of education, | :05:43. | :05:47. | |
leaders of teachers' unions and so on. Thank you, we will keep an eye | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
and see what happens. Now we did obviously have to speak | :05:53. | :05:58. | |
to an Education Minister but none was available. They probably got | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
lost in the blob. I suspect that Mr Gove, I mean, he thinks, he clearly | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
thinks the NUT is part of the problem, not the solution. And isn't | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
that interesting -- interested in negotiating. He thinks they are tout | :06:14. | :06:17. | |
stop everything he wants to do, as they attempted to stop much of what | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
Mr Blair wants to be He think think are the enemy. Also he think, this | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
is a difficult question, he doesn't think they really, intend to prevail | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
any way, they throw up strikes which are hugely inconvenient for parents, | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
they disrupt children's education but they tend not to get what they | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
want. I think he thinks they won't this time. All this talk about pay | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
and performance pay, British teacher, teachers in England because | :06:47. | :06:50. | |
we are in different situations in Scotland and Wales, they are pretty | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
well paid, and they have got better paid, rightly, in my view, I should | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
say, in the last ten years, and if you look at the OECD, you break down | :06:59. | :07:05. | |
the amount of pay for time spent actually teaching in the classroom, | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
Britain, England I keep saying Britain, I am into the next debate | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
about Scotland already, England scores well, comes in about fourth | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
place in the international league tables so it is not as if there is a | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
major pay problem, one understands while unions will try to get the | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
best deal for their member, but if they link it to resisting bigger | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
changes to reforms they won't have a lot of purchase on the Secretary of | :07:30. | :07:31. | |
State. Let us see what happens. Now on the | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
eve of the Winter Olympics in Sochi, the opening ceremony is tonight, | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
David Cameron has been at the Olympic Park in London, the scene of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
our wonderful opening Olympics in the summer of 2012. He was making a | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
speech designed to encourage those on these islands who are not | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
Scottish to let the Scots know they don't want a divorce. The haven't | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
use chosen because at the Olympics we all compete as Brits and the | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
Prime Minister has been invoking the spirit of Team GB to argue the case | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
for the union. This is what he has had to say. | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
This is our country, and we built it together. Brick by brick. Scotland, | :08:11. | :08:17. | |
England, Wales, Northern Ireland. Brick by brick. This is our home, | :08:18. | :08:22. | |
and I could not bear to see it torn apart. | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
I love this country. I love the United Kingdom, and all it stands | :08:27. | :08:30. | |
for. And I will fight with everything I have to keep us | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
together. Passionate defence of the union from | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
the Prime Minister. No sooner had he finished than Alex Salmond gave his | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
response. This is it. The main thing is this a speech delivered from | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
London, telling people in England what to do, but arguing against | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
Scottish independence, instead of a debate that the Prime Minister must | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
do in Scotland, a debate with me, as First Minister of Scotland about the | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
pros an cons of his argument against independence. Well, that was the | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
First Minister saying things. We are joined by Rory Stewart. The Prime | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
Minister has been criticise for not delivering this speech in Scotland, | :09:12. | :09:14. | |
but this was a speech to the non-Scot, so I understand why he did | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
this in England. But at some sage he has to go to Scotland. At some | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
stage, she the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, he has to get | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
involved, if he wants to defend the union, he has to go there, and | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
defend it. Yes, the Prime Minister I think will be going to Scotland but | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
the main thing is the grass roots emotion of this whole thing. It is | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
about showing that the English, the Welsh, the Irish are committed to | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Scotland, love Scotland, care about Scotland. Do they? What is the | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
evidence? I am hoping to gather thousands of people linking arms | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
along the forkeder. I would like a chain of lights and I would like do | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
you join us. Show affection for the union. We cover political | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
demonstrations. In what way in your view would the rest of the UK be | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
diminished if Scotland left? In almost every way, to lose a third of | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
your country. To loose Edinburgh, the Highlands, hundreds of years of | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
shared history will make us embarrassed in the face of the | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
world. You don't think it matters or you think the rest of the UK might | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
be better off if Scotland left? I am sure if the appeal is to economics | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
than motion, and it seems the Prime Minister was appealing to emotion, | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
Rory is talking about our sense of history, if you are a boring | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
economist like me and you want to crunch the number, I am certain it | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
would be in England's very narrow self-interest. Where is the evidence | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
for that? If you look at transfers from the relatively more affluent | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
English to the poorer Scot, the high levels of public spending, the | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
Barnett Formula, it is clouded by oil, and the price of oil going up | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
and down. It is not slightly clouded by oil revenue, it is almost exactly | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
matched by oil revenues. Yes, but the question is when do you measure | :11:04. | :11:08. | |
the oil revenues? The oil price goes up so much. Take oil at $100s a | :11:09. | :11:15. | |
barrel which is lower than now. You have to decide how much belongs to | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
the Scots. Under international law that is clear. It is about 90%. If | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
you look at the size of the public sector in England and certainly in | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
London and the south, comparing to that in Scotland, it is | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
substantially smaller in England, if you look at the... The public sector | :11:31. | :11:39. | |
in Scotland is no bigger than in the north-west or the North East It is | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
away beyond London and the south-east, so I think the English | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
would be Bert off. I am not sure narrow self-interest should be the | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
ace of trumps. Scotland could be better off. Being less depeb dent on | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
England than it is at the moment. More in control of their... What do | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
you say to that? In the end everything comes down to identity | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
and confidence. More serious economists than I could be, my sense | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
is it very difficult over 100, 200 years to think about what nation go, | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
a lot is to do with confidence, your commitment to your country. The US | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
doesn't sit round thinking we would be richer if we lost Texas or if a | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
few years. Or Alabama I think there is a divergence in political | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
culture, south and north of the border. I was looking at the figures | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
today, without Scotland the Labour Party would not have one a UK | :12:36. | :12:41. | |
general election between 1950 and 1997. They would not have won, they | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
would have won in 1997. That is not true. Your figures are wrong. Labour | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
won England in 199 -- 1966. I don't think they would have formed a | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
majority. They would have done. In 1966 they won England. We would have | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
had a Conservative majority Government, the majority of about 19 | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
or so. How many Tory MPs are there in Scotland? One. It used to be | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
half. Things can change. What you have seen is a divergence. Scotland | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
wants a centre-left approach, and England generally leans to a centre | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
right approach. If you have divery gent view, perhaps splitting... We | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
have to let Rory in. One of the great channels is to get out of | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
conversation between politicians and with respect economist, it is | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
interest you said people linking arms along the border would be a | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
political statement, I think it is not really politics, this is the | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
whole identity of your nation. One of the things that is making me very | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
tructed at the moment, is -- troubled at the moment, is the sense | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
no up ins in Britain are prepared to come fourth the UK, in the US if | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
Texas wanted to separate I would imagine you would get ten million | :13:57. | :14:01. | |
people joining arms to hold the country together. I think there is | :14:02. | :14:05. | |
other than the Sunday herald, which has a small circulation there is not | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
a single paper coming out for independence in Scotland. They are | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
remaining neutral. Even come to a general election, the editorial | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
endorsement don't come until a couple of days before. This is the | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
whole future of the United Kingdom. It is very strange that, and this is | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
clever the Scottish Nationalists have done, made it seen as if it's a | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
party political issue. It is the whole of the United Kingdom. The | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
most important constitutional question for 400 years. It is | :14:37. | :14:40. | |
certainly true that it is more likely to get a Labour Government if | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
Scotland remains part of the United Kingdom, I mean there wouldn't have | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
been a Labour Government in 64, there would in 66. There probably | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
wouldn't have been a majority Labour Government in 2005, either. That bit | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
is true, as well. But you know, if you are a Republican sitting in | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
Washington, you would say without California and without New York, and | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
without new England and without Massachusetts we would have a | :15:08. | :15:10. | |
permanent Republican majority, but no American is going to say that. | :15:11. | :15:20. | |
The USA is much more dotted around. Some states will always vote | :15:21. | :15:27. | |
Democrat. Maybe London and the south-east should go independent. It | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
would be the Richard Prince in Europe! -- richest province. They | :15:31. | :15:40. | |
could be a rather different build-up. The distinction between | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
two different nations, two different nations, is that stark. It used to | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
be, certainly foremost the 20th century, the political culture of | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
Scotland and England were a light it. They were similar. In 1955, the | :15:58. | :16:06. | |
Tories got a majority of the vote in Scotland. It was only 50.1%, but it | :16:07. | :16:11. | |
was a majority. It is clear they have been going in separate | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
directions in recent decades. Absolutely. That is true, of | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
course, of parts of northern England and parts of other cities. We have | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
got to accept there are different national cultures. We are not | :16:25. | :16:28. | |
denying that. It is what makes the UK great. We have diversity. It also | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
would be mistake if people fantasised that Scotland leaving | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
would lead to a 1-party government. People hate 1-party governments. | :16:38. | :16:42. | |
That would last for a few years. He is just saying it would be less | :16:43. | :16:48. | |
likely, a Labour government. The you should not support the constitution | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
of your country to favour one party or another. My observation would be | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
that typically the English, over recent decades, are voting towards | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
the centre right. Typically, the Scots are voting to the centre-left. | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
That can cause tensions if one of them enormously outweighs the other. | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
When Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister, you got a lot of animist | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
in Scotland. The potentially build-up English animus if the | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
English Labour Party in winning elections. To somebody with her | :17:20. | :17:31. | |
Scottish name. I am a Borders girl! Do you think it matters to how | :17:32. | :17:39. | |
Scotland will vote if, if as Mr Cameron says, the English say, don't | :17:40. | :17:46. | |
go. It depends if you can put that across. It is a sense that this | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
really is something we all feel something together about, other than | :17:53. | :18:00. | |
nationalists. I noticed the Prime Minister's tone, which was almost a | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
Hugh Grant moment, this is a real sign of worry in number ten that | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
there is desiccated discussion, led by Alistair Darling, on fiscal pros | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
and cons, is not going home and doing the job. He has got the | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
difficult task. You can get up and say, as a Southerner and a | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
Conservative, please, don't go. People might say, why should I | :18:25. | :18:28. | |
listen to you? If you want to hold the UK together, you have to do | :18:29. | :18:32. | |
that. I am sceptical about linking arms. That is my idea of hell. The | :18:33. | :18:41. | |
borders are beautiful place! Yes, but we barely linked arms with our | :18:42. | :18:48. | |
own families. The idea is right, if not the device. The majority of the | :18:49. | :18:54. | |
rest of the UK once Scotland to stay. That figure gets higher in the | :18:55. | :19:02. | |
North of England. Absolutely. I am on the border. We would be | :19:03. | :19:10. | |
heartbroken. These are family, not just neighbours. We would like them | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
to remain that. We want to show that we think that by linking arms on the | :19:15. | :19:24. | |
19th of July. Fair enough. It was one of those moments when | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
politics was briefly put on hold: the death of the popular Labour MP | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
Paul Goggins at the start of the year. But normal service has been | :19:33. | :19:34. | |
resumed now that there's a by-election underway in his seat of | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
Wythenshawe and Sale East. Adam's been to the enormous housing estate | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
in the South of Manchester to see what's going on. | :19:42. | :19:51. | |
What is within sure famous for? At one point it was the largest housing | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
estate in the whole of Europe. At another, part of it was declared the | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
most deprived council ward in the whole of England and Wales. At yet | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
another, it is a place where pre-prime minister real David | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
Cameron had a photo opportunity ruined by a guy doing this. | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
Yes, that's the one. Now for this by-election the media has descended | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
again from all over the place. Is Britain going to get out of the | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
European Union? Any indication that UKIP can do in a Labour area would | :20:24. | :20:33. | |
be very interesting. What are your first impressions of Wythenshawe? It | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
is a beautiful place. Here is the source of the excitement, the UKIP | :20:39. | :20:46. | |
candidate is a local businessman. Last time, the party were beaten | :20:47. | :20:50. | |
into forth by the BNP. Now they are aiming much, much higher. Talk me | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
through the leaflet. We want to point out to voters that the Labour | :20:56. | :21:01. | |
front bench is made up of people who are paper millionaires or actual | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
millionaires. Most of them have never had a real job. They went to | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
use a real job. They went to use it -- University, got a job in the | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
research department of the party, got parachuted into a safe seat and | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
now they are on the front bench trying to claim they represent the | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
working class. Labour's candidate stresses his local roots, too. | :21:21. | :21:26. | |
Manchester City's season ticket is proof. They rest in -- reckon UKIP | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
aren't in the same league. We are talking about the A crisis at the | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
hospital. We are talking about the cost of living. We are talking about | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
the unfair council tax -- cuts. Cuts are on the minds of the month at the | :21:46. | :21:53. | |
toddler group. I'm a local mum. I value these services. I stood there | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
and I protest it and I'm a speech after speech at the council in | :21:58. | :22:05. | |
Manchester against Labour's cuts. Here, the Tory candidate is focusing | :22:06. | :22:13. | |
on dog mess and potholes. Your party is in turn down the street and you | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
are talking about these things. I believe if you get the small things | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
right, you can get the big things right. There is a national | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
responsibility as an MP. But I want to be a local champion. I want to | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
represent them on the issues they are talking to me about. If I am | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
honest, the streets of Wythenshawe are not in the grip of by-election | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
fever, but the result will tell us whether UKIP can take votes from | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
Labour. Until now, they have mainly been holding a gun to the heads of | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
the Tories. Sorry, couldn't resist seeing the picture one wartime. | :22:47. | :22:50. | |
Add us to indulge himself. And a full list of candidates | :22:51. | :22:54. | |
standing in the Wythenshaw Sale East by-election is on your screen | :22:55. | :22:55. | |
now. For analysts, the only thing of | :22:56. | :23:13. | |
interest is who comes second. We'll UKIP beat the Tories into second | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
place? Indeed. It is not just a question of whether they edge one | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
way or another, although that is important. Also commit to the manner | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
in which they do so. Does it look like this is part of an unstoppable | :23:28. | :23:34. | |
UKIP march the type that... And I would say, some Labour politicians | :23:35. | :23:39. | |
have woken up to the fact that UKIP is eating into their territory, too. | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
It doesn't look like being a problem for the Labour successor in | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
Wythenshawe. But it could impact on the next general election. But it | :23:51. | :23:55. | |
could be we have got too excited. The UKIP bubble could burst and we | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
will see them doing OK but it will not be the next big thing. We shall | :24:01. | :24:09. | |
see. Let's turn to the flooding because, | :24:10. | :24:12. | |
with more heavy rain overnight, the flood waters have continued to rise. | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
Let's get the latest now from Chris Eakin, who's in the Village of | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
Burrowbridge on the Somerset Levels. What is happening there? | :24:19. | :24:24. | |
Hello. This is one of the approach roads to the village, which is again | :24:25. | :24:31. | |
flooded by water. It has become a veritable island. It was one that | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
was put on for several days, one which became almost the heart of the | :24:36. | :24:38. | |
political battle as to whether enough was being doing -- done on | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
the Somerset Levels. A phenomenal 24/7 operation to build temporary | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
barriers around the village, but some of those were breached in the | :24:48. | :24:53. | |
night. It has cut off all but larger vehicles. Overall, the Somerset | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
Levels are struggling very hard to contain the flood water. Don't be | :24:59. | :25:01. | |
fooled by the respite in the weather. It takes about ten hours | :25:02. | :25:06. | |
from when it rains for the rivers. A very worrying weekend ahead. | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
Chris, we only see the pictures. It never seems to get better for the | :25:14. | :25:17. | |
people there. In all of these flooded areas and we see houses | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
either flooded or surrounded by water, have the people being | :25:22. | :25:24. | |
evacuated? Or are they still having to stay in situ? They are living | :25:25. | :25:30. | |
through this, living, essentially, in the middle of a lake. It is not | :25:31. | :25:37. | |
everybody. Until yesterday, the Environment Agency were saying that | :25:38. | :25:44. | |
around 40 properties had actually been flooded. So, a relatively small | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
number given the many miles of flooding. One of the problems is the | :25:48. | :25:54. | |
threat to people. If you take the village I was talking about, you are | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
right, because two days ago, the police helicopter was up in the air | :25:59. | :26:03. | |
like something from a Hollywood movie, instructing people to leave. | :26:04. | :26:07. | |
Around half of the village, about 300 people, decided to stay. In the | :26:08. | :26:14. | |
early hours of this morning, they went out in a dramatic fashion. Now | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
we estimate about 20 or 30 remain there. It is not just the fact you | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
are flooded. It is the stress of watching the water just get closer | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
and closer to your property and the temporary barriers trying to hold | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
back the force of nature and then eventually succumbing. We have | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
spoken to a lot of people the tree into yesterday, and not just house | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
owners but farmers, too. Over my left shoulder, a farmer was close to | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
tears, saying he would have to give it all up. Do people feel abandoned | :26:44. | :26:50. | |
by central government, by the powers that be down there? You have used | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
the exact words. A lot of people say they feel forgotten. At the moment, | :26:55. | :27:01. | |
we have got Chris Smith, Lord Smith, the Minister and Labour government | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
chair of the Environment Agency. He is at a wetland Centre a few miles | :27:09. | :27:13. | |
away. It is a very controlled environment, this meeting. The can | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
understand why. There is a huge amount of anger in the Somerset | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
Levels. If we have got time, I can show you why. Here are two rivers | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
that keep coming up in the House of Commons. This is the River Tone full | :27:27. | :27:30. | |
stop behind this grass corner is the River parrot. We are at the | :27:31. | :27:38. | |
confluence. The argument is... If you look behind me you can see the | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
flood plain isn't -- is lower than the river. The Environment Agency is | :27:45. | :27:47. | |
not dredging enough, that is the argument. They have at the limit | :27:48. | :27:53. | |
since the mid-90s. You will struggle to find a single person on the | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
Somerset Levels who agrees with that policy. They all say dredging should | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
be carried out. Chris, thank you very much with that. At the end | :28:01. | :28:13. | |
there, he explained what has been the difference between the experts | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
in London and the people who are also expert on the ground. Because | :28:19. | :28:26. | |
this is below the flood plain, it was originally dredged by Dutch | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
engineers all these years ago. They think, as they do in Holland, it has | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
to be costly dredged. But the Environment Agency and others in | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
London say no, no, we are not going to do that. That is the problem. It | :28:39. | :28:45. | |
was interesting to see that Mr Cameron will take all possible steps | :28:46. | :28:49. | |
and nothing should be ruled out. Frankly, I think he would love a | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
reversal of policy by the Environment Agency. Whether that is | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
forthcoming, we don't know. If people really feel they are at the | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
sharp end... It is becoming a national trauma. Mr Cameron doesn't | :29:01. | :29:08. | |
look like he was on it. Tony Lee, he was late. There is sent he is | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
playing catch up. I don't think Christmas will be the most popular | :29:17. | :29:19. | |
man in that part of the world. If you have one of these agencies, it | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
is unlikely you are the only person who has pushed it through. But you | :29:24. | :29:27. | |
are right to put your finger on this point about dredging. In the end, | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
this is something government is going to have to take a view on. | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
Simply saying, well, it is a funny quango who put it in somebody's | :29:36. | :29:47. | |
hands, that won't do. Now, if you're a Liberal Democrat | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
supporter, you're probably a fan of TV shows like this. | :29:52. | :30:18. | |
That was Red Dwarf, how we do know that Liberal Democrats like sci-fi? | :30:19. | :30:26. | |
Well YouGov have done the research, and Freddie Sayers who is part of | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
the YouGov, he joins us now. So there are distinct programmes that | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
Tory, Labour and Liberal Democrats like? There are. We did analysis | :30:36. | :30:42. | |
involving over 70,000 people, comparing their favourite TV | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
programmes with their political affiliation. Let us put the Tory | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
list up. The results, what a surprise Downton Abbey. They are on | :30:52. | :30:58. | |
stereotype there. Spook, that is modern. Hawaii 5-0. Why should | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
Tories like that? That is a good yes. What does that tell us, if you | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
were a Tory strategist, what is the lesson from that? As we will see | :31:10. | :31:12. | |
from the Labour list, the two main parties came up pretty much on | :31:13. | :31:18. | |
stereotype there. I mean... Coronation Street. For Labour. | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
Coronation Street and Peter Kay's Phoenix Nights. | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
Mad men, that is very interesting as a Labour top ten: They have been | :31:30. | :31:38. | |
full of it for years. Frazier. It is more unVarnished vision of Britain: | :31:39. | :31:44. | |
It is kind of slightly more Britain 21st century. There is something | :31:45. | :31:50. | |
kind of acceptia tinted about the Tory top ten list. -- sepia. There | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
we go. This is striking, the others were pretty much as you would | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
expect. But it is hard sometimes to know what a stereo typical Liberal | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
Democrat looks like. It is all over the place. Looking at the top one | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
hundred, there are two strong themes that come through, the first is this | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
bizarre connection to sci-fi. Or perhaps not! Fully 17 of the top 100 | :32:18. | :32:23. | |
Liberal Democrat programmes are in some way sci-fi or future risty | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
while only two for the kith, so there is a sense of a kind of | :32:27. | :32:34. | |
alternative future, other worldly. They have got Have I Got News For | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
You. That shows they have a bit of a sense of humour. That is the second | :32:39. | :32:43. | |
important thing about that. They like futurarama. A cartoon. We count | :32:44. | :32:50. | |
that as sci-fi. What do you make of it? It is fascinating. I love the | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
Liberal Democrats are other worldly creatures from the planet X. They | :32:55. | :33:00. | |
have a sense of humour. Mock The Week, The IT Crowd. I wouldn't mind | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
staying in with the Liberal Democrat selection. The Tory one is very | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
backward looking, nothing wrong with a nice night in with Downton and a | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
large glass of something, but it is didn't things to be marvellous, when | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
Duchesses were Duchesses, Labour, the interesting thing you said, they | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
are picking apart at the early 21st century, trying to make sense of it. | :33:23. | :33:29. | |
And for reassurance they want to watch Coronation Street, and... To | :33:30. | :33:34. | |
show their roots. I think that is interesting. There is something | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
about all three parties that is nicely categorised in this. The | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
response we got. We published it a few days ago, the response from | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
Liberal Democrats has not been you are taking the mickey, there has | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
been a enthusiasm, saying yes we do like sci-fi, we are Liberal | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
Democrat, it is a a real better different future we want to believe | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
in, an alternative. Here is the question. Where did the Daily | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
Politics appear? It is not identified with any of the three | :34:06. | :34:11. | |
parties. Don't you think that is a triumph? We would not want to be on | :34:12. | :34:17. | |
any party list. Your recredentials have held up. It will be interesting | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
to see if the party managers get any campaigning line-out of that. That | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
is a fascinating poll. Now, it has just gone 12.30. Coming up our | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
regular look at what is going on in European politics, time to say | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
goodbye to Anne McElvoy. So, for the next half hour, we are | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
going to be focussing on Europe, we will be discussing EU relations with | :34:43. | :34:45. | |
the US UK, whether the eurozone crisis is over, and the role of the | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
European Space Agency. First, here is our guide to the latest from | :34:51. | :34:59. | |
Europe, in just 60 seconds. Italy's President was given a hard | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
time in the European Parliament in Strasbourg by Italian MEPs. Members | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
of the Northern League said where to stick the euro. Handbags of a | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
different sort. In addition to carry on luggage innow includes, a coat, | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
duty free and a handbag. Italy joined Britain in having some truly | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
dreadful weather. The river burst its banks causing | :35:30. | :35:36. | |
flooding in floor rans. Gasps as the Home Affairs commissioner described | :35:37. | :35:39. | |
European Union corruption as breathtaking. She put it at more | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
than 120 billion euros, or the size of the EU's entire annual budget, | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
and as attention turns to the Winter Olympics in Sochi, MEPs have been | :35:50. | :35:54. | |
having a gay old time debating relations with Russia, they want | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
Vladimir Putin to chill out and leave the Ukraine alone. | :35:58. | :36:08. | |
And with us for the next 30 minutes are var are Ludford and David | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
Martin. Let us start by talking about the flooding, because you have | :36:13. | :36:18. | |
for want the European Union to get involved with funds to help, tell me | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
what would you would like them to do There is an EU Solidarity Fund. We | :36:23. | :36:31. | |
have called op the UK Government to make an application for these funds, | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
because you know, what is not to like about getting some EU support | :36:37. | :36:42. | |
for our hard-pressed citizens and taxpayers? I am told that the, you | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
can only get help from this fund if the direct costs exceed three | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
billion euros or 0.6% of our gross national income, and that is, we are | :36:55. | :36:59. | |
not there. That is a national threshold. You can get money | :37:00. | :37:04. | |
regionally, and the, there are hoops to jump through, but the obviously | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
the thresholds are lower for a region. The government has declined | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
to do that, which is disappointing, and I hope that Owen Paterson will | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
change his mind on that, but we are encouraging local councils to apply | :37:18. | :37:23. | |
for another pot of EU money which commissioners confirm they could do, | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
so it seems to us why look a gift horse in the mouth? A lot of people | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
in the Somerset Levels will say that Europe has been part of the problem, | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
why they are in this mess, because a long with the Environment Agency | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
they have been anti-dredging, they have made it more difficult to | :37:38. | :37:41. | |
dredge. European rules have made it more difficult. What do you do with | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
the soil once you dredge it? They would like the money but they are | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
not feeling very warm. Firstly on the money issue, Labour in 2007 got | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
164 million out of the European Union for if floods we had in that | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
year. The reason we are not applying and the Liberals can't escape | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
responsibility for this, Danny Alexander is the Treasury minister | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
and it affects the rebate and we lose a third of that through the | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
rebate, so they are nervous about anything that detract trs the | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
rebate, but in terms of European responsibility, I don't think you | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
can blame Europe for the rain and floods. No, that is an aunt Sally, | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
that is not what I said. Will is a huge argument over dredging policy | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
and the EU has backed the line of the Environment Agency... I don't | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
think it prescribes to national and regional agencies how they might, | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
they don't micro manage in that way. What do you do with the soil? That | :38:38. | :38:44. | |
is a different matter. You have to do an environmental impact study. It | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
is the Environment Agency that decided this study, their view, that | :38:50. | :38:52. | |
dredging shouldn't happen, not the EU. Right. OK. Now, a year since the | :38:53. | :39:00. | |
Secretary of State -- a Secretary of State has apologise apologised after | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
using less than diplomatic language about the role of the EU. | :39:07. | :39:16. | |
Pro EU protestors have been demonstrating, for months after the | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
Ukrainian Government decided odd a deal with Russia, instead of | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
pursuing closer ties with the EU. Catherine Ashton has taken a | :39:26. | :39:29. | |
prominent role in attempting to diffuse the crisis and she met with | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
the Ukrainian President just yesterday. In the telephone | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
conversation between the Americans it seems to have leaked from a | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
Russian source, there is a surprise! The US diplomat appears unimpressed | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
with the EU's efforts So than great, I think to help glue this thing and | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
have the UN help glue it and (BLEEP) the EU. Exactly, I think we have to | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
do something to make it stick together, because you can be sure if | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
it does start to gain altitude, the Russians will be working behind the | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
scenes to try to torpedo it. Now the US has refused to confirm or deny | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
the authenticity of recording but a State Department spokeswoman said "I | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
didn't say it was inauthentic." Victoria Nuland has been in touch | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
with her EU counterparts to apologise for "The reported | :40:22. | :40:27. | |
remarks." So why would you apologise if you haven't done something, what | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
is your reaction? It is unfortunate wording, but obviously the Russians | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
are trying to divide the US and the EU. I think a bit of cursing, | :40:36. | :40:42. | |
sometimes happens between... Diplomacy Particularly in diplomacy, | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
I think what we need to do is to reinforce working together between | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
the EU and the US and to as the European Parliament has called for | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
this week, to offer a financial assistance dependent on political | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
dialogue, constitutional change, prospect of free election, to be | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
prepared to take targeted sanctions against the thugs of the regime and | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
the oligarchs who are supporting them, and to, you know, reinforce | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
the work of the citizens of the Ukraine, it is their choice to make, | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
we don't, we can't determine what they choose, but it does show that | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
the EU and its values of democracy and human rights have pulling power | :41:25. | :41:28. | |
and we should support that. ? We knew the Bush administration didn't | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
take the EU seriously as a diplomatic entity. This suggests | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
that maybe the Obama administration isn't that different. I think what | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
it suggests is while the EU is trying to bring the two sides | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
together the US is playing power politics, what she said was stuff | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
the EU in more graphic ways, but basically she was trying to say we | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
have to get some credit for any solution there, and that is a very | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
narrow minded attitude when we are facing major crisis. And a difficult | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
one too. Do the. U and the US do they have the same goals? The | :42:08. | :42:12. | |
Ukraine? I believe, so fundamentally, there is always, I | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
enmean, you know, no-one is pure in all of this, I suppose we all | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
political forces want to get some credit for, for a accident outcome, | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
but I think, you know, broadly we are on the same page, which is to | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
get peaceful political transition in Ukraine, to allow the Ukrainian | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
people to make their own choices and not be bullied by Russia and a very | :42:37. | :42:45. | |
unpleasant regime, and to, and to prevent violence and you know, | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
prospect of civil strife. I believe we are on the same page, but of | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
course there is a bit of rivalry. I think we are broadly, in terms of | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
sopping the violence, bringing the sides together. I think the US shows | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
an attitude they want to liberate the Ukraine, I don't think that is | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
the European Union role or the US's role. It is not Russia's job to | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
colonise it. Our job is to bring the two sides together. It is ANSA | :43:12. | :43:18. | |
asymmetric dispute. Even the US has only soft power to bring to this | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
whereas you get the impression that it wouldn't be, it is not beyond the | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
bounds of possibility that Mr Putin could use hard power? Yes, died. We | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
had a couple of Ukrainian MPs in the Parliament two weeks' ago and | :43:34. | :43:36. | |
firstly on the hard power against soft power they made the point, you | :43:37. | :43:41. | |
can never guarantee Russian tanks won't roll over the board, they said | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
they came with 16 billion in aid, they said their words was 600 | :43:47. | :43:50. | |
thousand, that is a big difference. It is probably more than that. Would | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
you want to get into a bidding war? What the EU can offer, which the US | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
can't is the prospect of trade relationship, and eventually, who | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
know, we should not close the door on membership for Ukraine, that is | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
something which the US can't offer. It is Moscow's worst nightmare. It | :44:13. | :44:19. | |
shouldn't be. We are no doubt it is authentic. Are we agreed on that? | :44:20. | :44:26. | |
Yes Some predicted the the mice, the eurozone is still in one piece | :44:27. | :44:31. | |
though. So have the nay says been proved wrong or are there still | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
dangers ahead. Jo Coburn has been talking to MEPs in Strasbourg. | :44:37. | :44:42. | |
The financial storm that hit Europe in 2008 wreaked havoc in the region. | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
Even the most drastic action couldn't protect economies from the | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
continual batter of a European downturn. | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
A few years on, though, the euro is still here, and talk of a euro | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
crisis has subsided. So are there blue skies ahead? Opinion is | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
divided. The European Commission said last week that there are | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
encouraging signs that the economy is strengthening. Ittests growth in | :45:09. | :45:16. | |
eurozone of 1.1% for 2014, couple I paired toon estimated 0.4% | :45:17. | :45:19. | |
contraction for 2013. But unemployment in the euro area is | :45:20. | :45:25. | |
expected to remain a record 12.2% this year. Globalisation is bringing | :45:26. | :45:37. | |
a lot of opportunities and a lot of problems. If there's a chance, then | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
I think Europe has a lot of power to be a strong contender in the next | :45:43. | :45:50. | |
decades. But for some countries the storm clouds never went away. The | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
four crossed for Greece is still very gloomy. The opposition say the | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
Greek people are running out of patience. | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
I don't see any hope of these politicians. They don't see the | :46:06. | :46:16. | |
future and they don't believe in better days for our country. Key | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
figures in the EU believe the only solution is deep integration of the | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
euro zone to protect it from future turbulence. Common currency creates | :46:26. | :46:32. | |
stability, normally, and the common currency is almost -- also the main | :46:33. | :46:42. | |
engine for growth. I am optimistic about that. It doesn't mean that we | :46:43. | :46:48. | |
have already overcome this crisis. This crisis needs more reforms than | :46:49. | :46:55. | |
we have already done today. The main reforms we need is to establish an | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
economic and fiscal union because you need cooperation if you have a | :47:00. | :47:07. | |
single currency. There are still voices forecasting storms ahead. But | :47:08. | :47:13. | |
the idea of a single currency designed for countries with such | :47:14. | :47:15. | |
economic outlooks is fundamentally flawed. The plaster has been stuck | :47:16. | :47:22. | |
and they are not tackling the underlying problems. Member states | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
are different and they are different in the way they run their economies | :47:29. | :47:32. | |
are different in their cultures, and different in the expectations of | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
people. The European Union has a lot to offer Europeans and member | :47:37. | :47:42. | |
states. But I don't think economic unity is one of those things. Things | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
may be looking brighter, at least on the surface. But the long-range | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
forecast for Europe is still very uncertain. With the region still | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
vulnerable to any changes in the economic weather. Politicians here | :47:55. | :48:00. | |
hope the sun has finally set on the crisis that many thought could end | :48:01. | :48:04. | |
the whole European project. But they have yet to find agreement on the | :48:05. | :48:16. | |
best way to more prosperous times. And joining Sarah and David is | :48:17. | :48:20. | |
Patrick O'Flynn, who is director of communications for UKIP and a | :48:21. | :48:22. | |
candidate in the forthcoming European elections 2012, Nigel | :48:23. | :48:25. | |
Farage. We are entering the endgame of the | :48:26. | :48:30. | |
political project. This is going to come to the dramatic head over the | :48:31. | :48:33. | |
course of the next two years. Turned out to be wrong, didn't he? In time | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
frames, he is wrong, but I am certain he is right about the | :48:40. | :48:43. | |
conclusion. We need some basic economics. If you paid your economy | :48:44. | :48:48. | |
to Germany's, you are in trouble. We learn that with Britain and White | :48:49. | :48:53. | |
Wednesday, when we could do what we've should do, which is to | :48:54. | :48:58. | |
depreciate... Last I looked, the eurozone is still intact. | :48:59. | :49:04. | |
unemployment, living standards are falling, falling, after year, | :49:05. | :49:08. | |
throughout southern Europe. Eventually the people there will | :49:09. | :49:10. | |
decide that is announced assignable way of carrying on. -- and | :49:11. | :49:19. | |
unsustainable way of carrying on. But we have economic stagnation. | :49:20. | :49:27. | |
Now, particularly for the Club Med countries, the real serious problem | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
of deflation. It is absolutely true that we're not out of the woods. | :49:34. | :49:40. | |
Needs to be further reform. We are still stuck in the forest! A lot of | :49:41. | :49:47. | |
of work has been done to get us to this stage. What I find absurd from | :49:48. | :49:54. | |
UKIP is it is so unpatriotic to want the eurozone to implode. We rely on | :49:55. | :50:02. | |
it for economic links and 3 million jobs in the UK. George Osborne once | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
stability in the eurozone because he knows that it is no good to the UK. | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
In fact, UKIP is showing itself to be unpatriotic. That is ludicrous! | :50:14. | :50:22. | |
Let him respond. We would love the countries of Europe to be | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
successful. Do you watch the eurozone to break up? I say it | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
cannot work. If you are not on the same long-term productivity part as | :50:33. | :50:36. | |
Germany, you need to depreciate against its currency or becoming | :50:37. | :50:39. | |
activity gets sucked into Germany. One economist called it a giant | :50:40. | :50:44. | |
vampire squid if that. You are a Labour MEP. The eurozone before | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
summoning of its members, has in mass unemployment, of the kind we | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
have not seen this is the 1930s. Now we have this problem in the southern | :50:57. | :51:05. | |
countries of deflation. Once you get into deflation, the Japanese -- | :51:06. | :51:14. | |
prices continue to fall. People think, I won't buy that today, | :51:15. | :51:17. | |
because it will be cheaper tomorrow. But to use a Scottish expression, | :51:18. | :51:28. | |
you never get out of the Hubble. We have muddled through the crisis. The | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
challenge now is to sort out the model. It is economic, not | :51:33. | :51:40. | |
financial. Exactly. The unemployment level is not acceptable. We have | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
called for a youth creation scheme to get the youth working at the | :51:44. | :51:49. | |
European level. We have suggested sharing borrowing costs so that | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
Greece and Italy can borrow better, get the economy moving again. Remove | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
some of the debt by sharing of pulling the cost. Germany is sharing | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
some of the benefits from the Europe with other member states. But you | :52:04. | :52:11. | |
could go back to the same problem of overindebtedness that created the | :52:12. | :52:17. | |
problem. What is needed as well is to tackle uncompetitive markets and | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
to have investment in productivity and Labour market reforms, like in | :52:21. | :52:25. | |
France. Francois Hollande has spoken about it but he is not delivering on | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
it. You pay over 40% of salary to employ somebody in France. That is a | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
huge deterrent. If you leave a generation unemployed, which we are | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
in danger of doing, you store up enormous problems for the whole of | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
the European Union. You are allied with France. The idea that some | :52:47. | :52:55. | |
countries are going to be able to compete in a locked rate with | :52:56. | :52:59. | |
Germany, long-term, is for the birds. It is never going to happen. | :53:00. | :53:03. | |
Germany has the scale, the brands, the infrastructure, the technical | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
education, the industrial relations all on its side. You have been to | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
Greece on holiday. It is siesta country. It is not in the culture. | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
They are not going to be able to do it. The economic activity is going | :53:17. | :53:19. | |
to be sucked away from them for good. Every year, they are going to | :53:20. | :53:24. | |
get smaller and poorer. Is the European government going to put | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
pressure on the central bank to become more activist? There are a | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
lot of calls that it starts to bomb Europe with the money. That they | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
need to put a lot more money into the system. It needs to go around | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
the major European banks and by their loan books and put cash onto | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
the ballot sheets of European banks so they can start to lend again. We | :53:46. | :53:56. | |
discussed this on Thursday. The parliament has argued strongly for | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
it. The British Conservatives voted against it but we argue for more | :54:01. | :54:06. | |
activist ECB. We need quantitative easing. We need shared borrowing | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
costs and lending. That would avoid the indebtedness that you talk | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
about. But only sharing under strict conditions. We have to move on. It | :54:17. | :54:25. | |
is an economic issue, not a financial one. | :54:26. | :54:33. | |
So the continent's still crippled by debt and struggling to emerge from | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
financial crisis, but European countries are still ploughing | :54:37. | :54:38. | |
billions of euros into the European Space Agency. Here's Adam with his | :54:39. | :54:46. | |
latest A-Z of Europe. Europe's Rover calls over the | :54:47. | :54:50. | |
surface of the red planet. Except it is really the Netherlands, where you | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
will find the research and technology centre of a European | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
Space Agency. It is where most of the agency's missions are planned | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
and built. This one takes off in 2018, and will have robotic design | :55:04. | :55:09. | |
by an engineer from Greece. Better not crash. It is costing 1 billion | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
euros. What would you say to your fellow Greeks who are struggling | :55:15. | :55:17. | |
financially to convince them this is worth investing in? This is | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
investing in research and development. It is creating jobs, | :55:23. | :55:26. | |
high-tech jobs for Europe. It crates intellectual capital. -- creates. | :55:27. | :55:34. | |
This is important for progress. Missions are launched in French | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
Guiana in South America. Astronauts get trained in Germany, and a new | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
lab has opened in the UK. Back in Holland, I'd done some fashionable | :55:43. | :55:47. | |
space where to meet one of the senior Brits here. -- I put on. | :55:48. | :55:54. | |
Here, they similar to the conditions up there. One of Mark's pet projects | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
is the resident probe, which later this year will land on a comet. | :55:59. | :56:07. | |
Hopefully. -- the Rosetta probe. I think it is a great example of | :56:08. | :56:14. | |
European cooperation. The badges come off at that point. When we are | :56:15. | :56:17. | |
sitting in a control room waiting for the results from one of our | :56:18. | :56:22. | |
missions, we are all European. It is great. Although, walking around this | :56:23. | :56:26. | |
place, there are no EU flags. That is because the agency is | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
independent. It is funded and run by its 20 member states, which come | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
confusingly, include Canada. In several countries, the fourth | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
largest contributor behind France, Germany and Italy. A few years ago, | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
we upped our contributions, making the UK lots of friends around here. | :56:48. | :56:52. | |
Each memo pays a sort of basic subscription based on their national | :56:53. | :56:56. | |
income, and the more you pay in, the more work gets sent your country's | :56:57. | :57:01. | |
way. Member states, then, pick and choose which missions to invest in. | :57:02. | :57:10. | |
Some countries have specific interest in launchers. They will | :57:11. | :57:12. | |
invest more in launches than other areas. Other countries don't have | :57:13. | :57:20. | |
such an interest. They don't have to put money into that programme. | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
Having said it is not part of the EU, the agency does when Europe's | :57:25. | :57:29. | |
equipment of the GPS system, Galileo, which the EU pays a lot of | :57:30. | :57:33. | |
awful of the Lisbon Treaty also gave Brussels the power to have its own | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
space policy for the first time. And prepare for Britain to go space mad. | :57:40. | :57:43. | |
Next year, Major Tim Peake will become the first British astronaut | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
to head into orbit on the European mission. You have both got 30 | :57:47. | :57:53. | |
seconds to give us your impressions. A good thing? It is. It is a great | :57:54. | :57:59. | |
example of European co-operation. You get more bang for your bucks by | :58:00. | :58:03. | |
cooperating. There is going to be a new centre in Oxfordshire. We have | :58:04. | :58:07. | |
got 30,000 people in Britain in pride in space related technology. | :58:08. | :58:15. | |
-- employed. It is good for jobs and good for the future prosperity. That | :58:16. | :58:22. | |
is your 30 seconds. Now yours. I also agree. It is a good thing. This | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
is not about putting a man on the moon. It is about the cutting edge | :58:28. | :58:30. | |
of technology, which is all good for keeping Britain as an advanced | :58:31. | :58:34. | |
industrial economy. And we get some payback for this. It might be | :58:35. | :58:41. | |
disproportionate, in fact. All credit to the Coalition government, | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
if I may say, by putting more money into the European Space Agency. This | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
is not a party political programme That's all for today. | :58:52. | :58:54. | |
! Thanks to my guests, David Martin and Sarah Ludford. Bye bye. | :58:55. | :59:03. |