13/03/2014 Daily Politics


13/03/2014

Jo Coburn with the latest political news and debate from Westminster. Jo is joined by former MEP Stanley Johnson, father of Boris Johnson.


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Afternoon, folks. Welcome to the Daily Politics. The economy might be

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growing but there's no early cheer for public sector workers. Only a 1%

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rise for most. That's about half the rate of inflation. David Cameron

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says it's a fair deal. Some unions are already gunning for industrial

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action. I have taken over the Daily Politics big board today and will

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explain how the Liberal Democrats are trying to make taxes fairer. Is

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this now the World's most famous dynasty? Is it the most talented?

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We'll be talking to the Godfather. And want to know what MPs get up to

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after dark? Adam's been to the Parliamentary Variety Show. Which

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party do you think is more showbiz, more entertaining? I think they both

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have a long way to go to reach a popular audience.

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The mind boggles. All that in the next hour. With us for the whole

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programme today is the former Conservative MEP, Stanley Johnson.

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Welcome to the programme. Stanley also used to work for the World Bank

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and the EU Commission. He's the father, I'm sure you know, of Boris

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Johnson, the Mayor of London. He also used to be Chairman of the

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Gorilla Organisation and is a keen environmentalist. And he also writes

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books. He says about 24 of them. Anyway, colourful life. Anyway,

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welcome to the programme. Now first today let's turn our attention to

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Europe, because let's face it it's never out of the news these days.

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Patrick O'Flynn from UKIP is also here. Welcome to the programme,

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Patrick. Stanley Johnson, do we now know where we are in terms of what's

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on offer from the parties? If the Tories win, there will be an in out

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referendum, if Labour wins, there won't be apart from in exceptional

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unlikely circumstances. That is a very fair, I think, explanation. The

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Tories are committed to an in out referendum. I don't regard that with

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any alarm at all and I am a committed European. I worked in the

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commission. I have been a member of the European Parliament. I was a

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member in the first election of 1979, when the Conservative Party

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was gung ho for Europe and we had 61 Conservative MEPs. It's good for

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David Cameron. It's high time we had an in out referendum. We have been

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40 years waiting for it and, as far as I am concerned, we will win it to

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stay in Europe. UKIP's Fox will be shot. The voters have a clear

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choice. With the Tory offer, I think is used to say, terms and conditions

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apply. The cast-iron guarantee of a referendum on Lisbon Treaty was

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broken and voters are crossed Europe are used, if they get the wrong

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result, two referendums and having to vote all over again. Are you

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saying David Cameron, if he is Prime Minister again, it's not going to

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happen? I don't trust him to keep the promise, let me make that

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absolutely clear, but I can tell you I remember when I was a journalist

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looking down at Prime Minister 's questions, and Eurosceptic

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Conservative MPs asking him for an in out referendum, and him saying

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it's not in the national interest. It was UKIP thumbscrews on David

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Cameron which changed his mind and we are about but the thumbscrews on

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Ed Miliband as well. I do think you can credit UKIP for the referendum.

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You have to go back to Jimmy Goldsmith, frankly. He played an

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enormous role. Keeping is out for the you talk about terms and

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conditions applying. The Prime Minister said he will have

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discussions with Europe, but go back to 1975 when Wilson had a

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referendum. That change the perspective on the Labour Party

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totally. The Labour Party came on board and the referendum was won by

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a 2-1 vote. We can do that again. I'm not at all worried about these

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negotiations Cameron has to have. Do you think they add up to a row of

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beans? Do you think anything will be achieved or it's a bit of succour to

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the Eurosceptics? Of course it is. Going back to 1975, Wilson went in,

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the renegotiated, came back with a couple of things. Can anybody

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remember what they wear? No, the fundamental issue was, was bred and

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then a member of the European Union? The fundamental issue in 2017 is

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going to be, will Britain stay in? By the way, there is an error in

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people 's understanding. You don't have to have IGC negotiation before

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you have the referendum. We never had that. You think there shouldn't

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be that much reform? No, you don't have to pin down the camera on offer

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in terms of something... That might be just as well because it clearly

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doesn't want to be pinned down at all. You don't believe there's

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anything in this renegotiation. Are you worried by businesses who've

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come out quite strongly over the past few months saying the

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referendum is causing uncertainty and they are worried it's also

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preventing investment? Peter Mandelson and Roland Rudd have their

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powers in the massive multinational corporations. They wanted Britain to

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join the euro, and benefit from the endless stream of cheap labour,

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despite often not paying much tax into the system themselves, and the

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public are being fleeced. We cannot control our borders inside the

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European Union. And that's why the UKIP message is spreading way

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outside the Tory shires to the blue-collar workers and would-be

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workers. It may be interesting to see what happens after the European

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elections because, in terms of the consumer and the voter being

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fleeced, we never get the concrete figures on what they are being

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fleeced by in terms of money by the European Union. What do you say when

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UKIP say it costs us billions of pounds to sign up to a unnecessary

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regulation in Europe? I don't buy that argue didn't at all. I remember

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a time when the British rebate was a really big issue and Mrs Thatcher

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got the rebate and it is still in place. Yes, we... Nearly half of it

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given away. We get huge amount back. Lord Ashcroft has done significant

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polling saying the issue of Europe is just not that big a deal, which,

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for you, is obviously clearly very disappointing. People are interested

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in the economy. Good the Lord Ashcroft. Key member of the

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Conservative Party. Since the last election, we have more than doubled

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our membership, quadrupled our poll rating, and eightfold increase in

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real elections, so something we are offering the British public is

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clearly chiming and our membership figure is at an all-time record,

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34,300. One thing you can't do is deliver on a referendum. That

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presupposes the result of the next election and I'm telling you,

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fundamental changes are happening. The Tories will deliver on it for

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the Labour might. UKIP can't for them I think we can force Ed

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Miliband to changes mind. That would be interesting to see. Stories that

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Nigel Farage Barca boss private life have been all over the papers. How

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damaging is that, to your campaign -- Nigel Farage's private life? Not

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a lot, people are responding to our messages, principally, you can't

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control your borders inside the European Union. Why are we giving

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?55 million every single day to the European Union? How are you

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responding to those stories? We are making the big issues available to

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the British public. Large part of the establishment don't want that to

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happen. Nigel Farage and Annabel Fuller had said these stories, made

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by an embittered former MEP, whenever I see Nicky Sinclair's name

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mentioned, I keep them peeled. We didn't Metallica news on the BBC

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last night. I want to know why it was on the BBC Ten O'Clock News? I

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don't think there would have them at any other political leader. That

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would be arguable for them how are you going to persuade Ed Miliband?

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We are going to put the UKIP thumbscrews on him, just like we did

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to David Cameron, by taking loads and loads of people he has taken for

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granted as Labour voters from him and loads of people he has taken for

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granted as Labour voters from feminist party at the European

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elections on May 22. Let's leave it there. Watch out, Ed Miliband! Now

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it's time for our daily quiz. Regular viewers of the Daily

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Politics will know we've taken a keen, some might say excessive,

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interest in the rodent infestation over the road in the Palace of

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Westminster. I mean, real rodents, of course. Some MPs thought the

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answer was to get a cat. And we even had one of the contenders for the

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job here in the studio. She was called Phoebe. But this morning we

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learned that the House of Commons Commission, the committee that runs

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the place, has banned Pheobe or any other cat from becoming mouser in

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residence. But what's the reason? Stanley Johnson, I hope you are

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listening. Is it: A) MPs were worried the cat would steal their

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thunder? B) Speaker Bercow is allergic to cats? C) The cat might

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get too fat on all the leftover food? Or D) The cat might scratch

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the Queen's throne in the House of Lords At the end of the show Stanley

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will give us the correct answer. Now according to the head of the British

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Army, a moral disarmament in the West has resulted in a reluctance

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for us to engage in conflicts. Speaking to the Foreign Affairs

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think tank, Chatham House General Sir Peter Wall says that reluctance

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will be exploited by Britain's enemies. So what is Britain's role

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in the world and does our rhetoric outstrip our capability? Let's

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listen to the Labour MP, John Woodcock, at yesterday's Prime

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Ministers Questions. This week marks three years since the bloodshed

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began in Syria. More than two-and-a-half million people have

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fled the country and the dead can no longer even be counted. We must all

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bear responsibility for our shameful failure to intervene. But they are

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supposed to be the ones... They are the supposed be the ones running the

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country. So what renewed effort will his Government make to end the

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slaughter before all hope fails? Mr Speaker, he knows my own views. I

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felt there was a case for intervention at the time when we

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voted on this. And, of course, his party voted against it but if he now

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wants to speak with his own party leadership upon that matter, he is

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more than welcome to do so. I agree with him. The humanitarian

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catastrophe there is of an unimaginable scale. We must do

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everything we can to help. That is why I think I'm right in saying our

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humanitarian effort there is now the largest this country has ever

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delivered. And why also, the Home Secretary and others in Government

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are administering, in conjunction with the United Nations, a new

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programme where we allow the most destitute and desperate refugees

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some refuge in this country, as well. Nick Clegg from the Deputy

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Prime Minister 's questions yesterday. With us now is John

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Woodcock. I was slightly surprised to hear raise the issue in the House

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of Commons yesterday. What prompted you to do it? We are now entering

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the fourth year of what is being a horrific conflict. We are in a

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situation where Syria has faded from the musicals there was a flash point

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at the vote, but the killing is going on daily, and I was privileged

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to be part of a Parliamentary briefing where British Syrians came

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in and talked about the horror in that country and I do think it

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shames all of us that this has gone on for so long with such a level of

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killing and we have not been prepared to do sufficient to shift

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the balance. My surprises because Labour is very much blamed by the

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Government, your leader's tactics as they were described, by Nick Clegg

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David Cameron at the time, for blocking the motion that could pave

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the way military action by Britain. Well, I don't think Parliament and

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the Parliamentary process came out of that very well. Ed Miliband was

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wrong, do you think? I did not oppose the Government motion. Like

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most of the members of my party. But, actually, the person who I'm

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most angry with is the British prime and is the British primers to David

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Cameron because when you're in a position of leadership like that,

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you have a responsibility to Marshall this through Parliament.

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I'm afraid it was a cataclysmic failure of his process and

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leadership which left us in a situation where we were not able to

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leave the option even on the table, which Ed Miliband and the Labour

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Party wanted. I have got to say, I truly disagree. I disagree because,

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as a result of your party's decision, we actually got a very

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good result. And a very good result was we were not forced to

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intervene. We were not forced to line up behind the Americans and, as

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a result of Cameron not getting that vote in the House of Commons, Barack

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Obama felt he did not have to go to Congress and we did not have a

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conflict... Was that the wrong decision? I think it was the right

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decision. This was an achievement Cameron got by accident. He came in

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from Cornwall, failed to get the vote, and now he has the luck to

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have not got it. We can get embroiled in a discussion about the

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intricacies of Parliamentary tactics, but I don't think anyone

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can describe what is happening as a good result. It is appalling. You

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are asking for intervention for that why can't intervene, in your mind

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question there are far too many interventions without the cover of

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international law. Afghanistan, Iraqi, Kosovo. You wouldn't have

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liked the Government to have gone into Kosovo? No, under NATO mandate.

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I believe in classic international law which says you go with votes of

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the Security Council, you get your vote, and you move on that. They

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would never have got away with it in Russia. That's life, you don't get

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it. So what are you hoping for now, boots on the ground in Syria? There

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was no question of that, and that was one of the failings that the

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Government and the military were not able to give enough of a sense that

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this was, partly, it ought to have been and could still be about taking

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proper steps in the face of a leader using chemical weapons, for which

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there was compelling evidence. But the other big failing that we have

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allowed to happen is President Assad has been able to successfully

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portray this, but Ray the opposition forces as even worse than what was

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coming. -- portray. There are extremists, but they are not all the

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same, and there are moderate forces who we should have been and could

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still be supporting. Does it contribute to the idea that we are

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weaker as a foreign policy powers that the quote from General Sir

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Peter Wall, chief of the general staff, that there is a moral

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disarmament, war weary Britain puts us at risk to our enemies? I would

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rather hear him talk about the need for international backing when we

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have intervention. It is absolutely fundamental, and it is really

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worrying, the way the world and Britain has moved away from that. I

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blame Tony Blair quite a lot for that, the speech he made in Chicago

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and so on. On the chemicals point, let's face it, Vladimir Putin has

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played a blinder. He has played a blinder. He put the chemicals offer

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on the table in the press conference in Moscow, we picked it up, and it

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has saved, I think, another conflict. There is a suggestion that

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there is only 5% of the chemical weapons in Syria that have been

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destroyed as a result of this. The idea that we have got rid of the

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problem is bonkers. Well, let's look at how much weight we do have on the

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international arena, with Ukraine, for example. Is William Hague doing

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a good enough job in terms of appearing tough to stop that

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escalating further? It is not going to be a boot on the ground

:17:32.:17:37.

situation. Go back to 1994, we had the Budapest agreement, Britain and

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the United States guaranteed, in some sense, Ukraine after it handed

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back its nuclear weapons to Russia, so we have a real interest in

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Ukraine. Realistically, you cannot have a war situation. I go slightly

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back to the point I just made - it is all very well saying what Putin

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is doing is illegal, it probably is, but many of the things we did

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were totally illegal in international law. David Cameron is

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in Israel, do think there has been enough coverage of that in terms of

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quite a big set piece event, addressing the message to a standing

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ovation? Lots of missiles! That short of overshadowed the news

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agenda. We not interested enough in what Britain is doing on the foreign

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stage because we do not count? I do not think it is because we do not

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count. I can understand why, after a decade of war in Afghanistan,

:18:36.:18:38.

without troops in the line of fire and many, many casualties, the

:18:39.:18:42.

shadow of Iraq hangs over the political process here in

:18:43.:18:46.

Westminster and the wider country. People are tired of what they see as

:18:47.:18:52.

intervention, but we have so much to lose as a country if the lasting

:18:53.:18:57.

effect of that is to diminish our influence. Briefly. Quick as a flash

:18:58.:19:02.

on this one, I have just been to Colombia, I happened to have dinner

:19:03.:19:09.

with William Hague in the embassy, he talked about what he was

:19:10.:19:13.

interested in, he was getting on to Brazil. There is a wider dimensions,

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there is a Latin American dimensions, and I would say William

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Hague has been a brilliant Foreign Secretary. Thank you very much, John

:19:21.:19:26.

Woodcock. The Daily Politics is a traditional programme, we cannot

:19:27.:19:30.

afford not to be, so tight is the budget, and in the spirit of

:19:31.:19:33.

tradition, we are bringing back something we have not seen for

:19:34.:19:36.

donkeys years, the celebrity big board! I am delighted, because it

:19:37.:19:41.

gives me a break! In a moment we will be hearing from the president

:19:42.:19:44.

of the Liberal Democrats, Tim Farron, but first a spot of

:19:45.:19:49.

nostalgia. The crisis in some secondary schools

:19:50.:19:55.

is obvious to anyone who looks. Just take a few facts. The Government is

:19:56.:20:00.

continually missing its own targets. Only half of young people achieve a

:20:01.:20:05.

five good GCSEs. The Government target is for 16 sent pupils to

:20:06.:20:13.

achieve five good GCSEs by 2008. -- 60%.

:20:14.:20:16.

If you want to offer every child the potential to fulfil, you have to

:20:17.:20:21.

start early, so our aim is simple, to give a helping hand to parents

:20:22.:20:26.

and create a society where every young person, no matter what their

:20:27.:20:29.

background, get a decent start in life.

:20:30.:20:35.

How we provide education and opportunity for children with

:20:36.:20:38.

learning difficulties and disabilities is a vitally important.

:20:39.:20:42.

These children include some of the most vulnerable in the country.

:20:43.:20:45.

Their families often struggle to bring them up and get what they

:20:46.:20:48.

need. Well, that takes you back! That

:20:49.:20:53.

kick-started a certain Prime Minister's rapid rise through the

:20:54.:20:59.

ranks. David Cameron, Ed Davey, Ruth Kelly performing their education big

:21:00.:21:03.

boards, and now Tim Farron has this message on tax ahead of the Budget.

:21:04.:21:10.

Back in 2010, one of Nick Clegg's key election promises was to raise

:21:11.:21:15.

the income tax threshold to ?10,000 per year, a tax cut of ?700 for 25

:21:16.:21:20.

million people. At the time, David Cameron said the idea was

:21:21.:21:24.

unaffordable, but from next month it becomes a reality. In fact, the

:21:25.:21:27.

Conservatives liked the policy so much, they like to pretend it was

:21:28.:21:32.

their idea in the first place. The Liberal Democrats have fought hard

:21:33.:21:35.

for this and taken 2.7 million of the lowest paid workers out of

:21:36.:21:40.

income tax altogether. 25 million people have received a cut. And

:21:41.:21:45.

there is more to come. Ahead of the Budget next week, the Lib Dems want

:21:46.:21:50.

to go even further and turn this ?700 into ?800, a worker's bonus,

:21:51.:21:55.

meaning you would only start paying tax over ?10,500 per year.

:21:56.:21:59.

Meanwhile, the Tories came into government arguing for a tax cut for

:22:00.:22:03.

married couples and a reduction in inheritance tax for millionaires.

:22:04.:22:07.

Labour is still a blank sheet of paper. Let's not forget, in

:22:08.:22:12.

government they scrap the 10p rate. Ultimately, the Liberal Democrats

:22:13.:22:15.

want to see no-one paying income tax on the first 12 -- ?12,500. Someone

:22:16.:22:24.

currently earning minimum wage would not pay any income tax at all. How

:22:25.:22:29.

was that, Jo? Very good, you will put me out of a

:22:30.:22:33.

job! Tim Farron, come and sit down with the rest of us, we are also

:22:34.:22:38.

joined by Pat McFadden of the Treasury Select Committee. Just to

:22:39.:22:42.

say, the Tories and Labour will be delivering their big boards next

:22:43.:22:46.

week. I do not know if it is you, it may fall to some other lucky person!

:22:47.:22:52.

It is your idea, is it, raising the threshold? Your idea entirely, the

:22:53.:22:57.

Liberal Democrats, the Conservatives 42 and nail? It is true! I remember

:22:58.:23:05.

the debates before the last election when Nick Clegg proclaimed the

:23:06.:23:07.

policy, David Cameron said, do not be silly, you cannot afford it. Lord

:23:08.:23:13.

Ashcroft spend his money on polling rather than supporting the Tory

:23:14.:23:16.

party, and he has discovered it is a popular policy, so the Conservatives

:23:17.:23:22.

tried to claim it. We have to accept that is how it is in coalition, we

:23:23.:23:26.

are pleased we managed to get this through. You can probably claim it

:23:27.:23:30.

was your policy bearing in mind those debates, but once in

:23:31.:23:34.

coalition, did they fight you choose and nail not to have it as a policy?

:23:35.:23:43.

Yes, during the Budget that was known by a phrase, the

:23:44.:23:50.

omnishambles, the subtext was a scrap over the Tories wanting to cut

:23:51.:23:56.

the top rate of income tax to 40p, and the Lib Dems wanting to up the

:23:57.:24:00.

threshold. And we fought very hard for that to the extent that Osborne

:24:01.:24:07.

demanded that reduction of the top rate. It serves you well to claim

:24:08.:24:10.

you have to fight for it, it has been denied by Iain Duncan Smith and

:24:11.:24:16.

Matt Hancock yesterday. You can just show the video of David Cameron

:24:17.:24:23.

saying, we are not doing it, it is a daft idea. I think it is help for

:24:24.:24:27.

the low paid, but you have to consider more than one tax rate. The

:24:28.:24:32.

IFS, when they add all the tax and benefit changes together, have said

:24:33.:24:38.

families are ?900 was off. You cannot take one tax and say that is

:24:39.:24:42.

the only thing that affects incomes. When I looked at the figures in the

:24:43.:24:47.

presentation about ?700 better off, ?800, as anyone on a minimum wage if

:24:48.:24:53.

they feel ?800 better off. It is polling very well according to Tim

:24:54.:24:57.

Farron. They will not because of the combined effect of the tax and

:24:58.:25:01.

benefit changes, and the big priority for the government, Tim

:25:02.:25:05.

mentioned a bust up over the top rate, but it was reduced, a ?3

:25:06.:25:14.

billion tax cut for people earning over ?150,000 per year. I know there

:25:15.:25:18.

is a disagreement over how much tax that will make. We have said,

:25:19.:25:24.

looking back on our experience in government, we would reintroduce the

:25:25.:25:28.

10p rate. We think it is a good way to help the low paid, and what we

:25:29.:25:32.

would want to be judged on us all the tax and benefit changes put

:25:33.:25:36.

together, not just taking one tax change and not taking into account

:25:37.:25:40.

everything else that has been done on VAT, tax rate and all the rest of

:25:41.:25:45.

it. I would like to kick in, far be it from me to question the coalition

:25:46.:25:48.

partners are anything like that, but there is another aspect of this,

:25:49.:25:53.

which is you do not want to finance everything through hitting the

:25:54.:25:55.

middle classes more. I think what we are seeing now gets a bit technical,

:25:56.:26:02.

fiscal drag, and actually, if you don't lower the limit at which you

:26:03.:26:08.

kick in with the 40% tax rate, more and more people are going to be

:26:09.:26:14.

hitting it. Let's talk about that, why isn't that being looked at?

:26:15.:26:18.

There is a big call from a number of MPs, more people are being dragged

:26:19.:26:23.

into that 40% bracket. That is going to make them worse off. Including

:26:24.:26:31.

the Tube train drivers, Bob Crow, should they be paying that? Any

:26:32.:26:38.

government is going to have difficult choices in this. To help

:26:39.:26:46.

one group, it is more difficult to help another. This fiscal drag is

:26:47.:26:50.

happening, the not particularly wealthy are being dragged into it,

:26:51.:26:55.

but if you are going to prioritise a tax cut for somebody, it cannot be

:26:56.:27:01.

everybody, it is about choices. So you would see more people included

:27:02.:27:06.

in that 40% bracket? I am not saying that, but the more you pile on to a

:27:07.:27:09.

tax cut in one area, the more difficult it is to give one

:27:10.:27:13.

elsewhere. In a weight we are quibbling about a mouse, because if

:27:14.:27:19.

you look at the report from the Institute of economic affairs, there

:27:20.:27:22.

is no way at all that you can fund the current anticipated pensions out

:27:23.:27:29.

of current earnings, so you have huge things ever view and the

:27:30.:27:33.

government has to do have major spending commitments. -- ahead of

:27:34.:27:41.

you. The cost of raising the allowance was said to cost ?3.2

:27:42.:27:48.

billion, very expensive. But it has been very impactful in terms of an

:27:49.:27:52.

uplift in the economy, because if you give people more money in their

:27:53.:27:57.

pockets, they tend to spend it. That is why consumer spending has

:27:58.:28:01.

increased? It is part of the reason, and the reality is we have to get

:28:02.:28:05.

the balance right. We were right not to do what Ed Balls told us to do

:28:06.:28:09.

and ignore the deficit. We would have been wrong to do what George

:28:10.:28:13.

Osborne wanted to do, cut more money out than was necessary. We were

:28:14.:28:17.

right to put money into the pockets of people on low and middle

:28:18.:28:21.

incomes. What about the mansion tax? You are both in favour, so if it

:28:22.:28:26.

came to another coalition with the Conservatives, would it rule you

:28:27.:28:30.

out? Would you insist on it or would it be debatable? One of the things

:28:31.:28:34.

we learned from the last coalition agreement... You do not get what you

:28:35.:28:39.

want! You have to go into the coalition knowing what you want,

:28:40.:28:43.

knowing that if you get 100% of your manifesto through and you have only

:28:44.:28:47.

got a quarter of the money, that would be unfair. The mansion tax,

:28:48.:28:53.

the Tories do not like the idea. I think you have got to rebrand it.

:28:54.:28:56.

There is a case for having another look at the banding... You would

:28:57.:29:02.

have to do that in order to introduce a mansion tax. You might

:29:03.:29:08.

have do. Is it a local governments tax or a national tax? It is

:29:09.:29:14.

probably not right that a house costing ?84 million should be paying

:29:15.:29:20.

the same tax as a house costing ?800,000. That doesn't seem to be

:29:21.:29:24.

right to me. That does not mean I am in favour of a mansion tax, it would

:29:25.:29:29.

not out hundreds or thousands of property owners in London who have a

:29:30.:29:33.

property, saved up to bite, could not conceivably pay that tax. We are

:29:34.:29:39.

going to turn to public sector pay will stop oh, right! Public sector

:29:40.:29:44.

staff will get a below inflation pay rise, the Government says it is to

:29:45.:29:49.

keep more people employed, but Unison say they are appalled at the

:29:50.:29:58.

decision. Here is David Cameron. For NHS staff are worth the 1% pay rise

:29:59.:30:01.

and everybody will get at least 1%. Either through the rays or through

:30:02.:30:05.

the progression payments that they otherwise receive. Let's look at the

:30:06.:30:11.

big picture here. It is right to make difficult decisions about

:30:12.:30:13.

public sector pay. It's good that it's increasing and not frozen but

:30:14.:30:17.

it's right to take these difficult decisions because it means we can

:30:18.:30:21.

keep more people employed. More people in work and we can make sure

:30:22.:30:26.

we spend money on vital treatments, on hospitals and on delivering

:30:27.:30:29.

services which is what patients so desperately want. It apply to

:30:30.:30:35.

continue with public sector pay restraint? It is. The question of

:30:36.:30:40.

whether it is fair or not, it deserves more than 1%, ensure they

:30:41.:30:45.

do, and it can come at a time like this, can we afford it? I thought

:30:46.:30:50.

things were looking up? We are told endlessly by your colleagues and the

:30:51.:30:53.

Conservatives the economy is going to start to recover for the why

:30:54.:30:58.

can't everybody else have a pay rise? It would be stupid to be

:30:59.:31:02.

complacent about that. In inflation and unemployment is coming down.

:31:03.:31:07.

Great signs but we still owe ?1 trillion. We are not out of the

:31:08.:31:11.

woods at all. So the public sector will suffer? We can't end up in a

:31:12.:31:18.

situation where there will be run on markets, a lack of confidence, 7%

:31:19.:31:23.

interest rates. When a slightly higher pay rise result in that?

:31:24.:31:28.

Public expenditure and that's the case. You agreed with freezing

:31:29.:31:31.

public sector pay and were continuing with it. You are signed

:31:32.:31:37.

up to this policy. I think, if you got a choice between jobs or pay

:31:38.:31:44.

rises, jobs is the way to go. We're in the position of continued

:31:45.:31:47.

restraint because the Government has found much more difficult than they

:31:48.:31:50.

predicted to get the deficit down. It has lasted a lot longer through

:31:51.:31:55.

this Parliament, still higher than they predicted, and they've also

:31:56.:31:59.

spent billions on an NHS reorganisation that no one wanted,

:32:00.:32:03.

so if I wasn't NHS worker right now, I would look at the money spent

:32:04.:32:07.

on the reorganisation, and then look at the signals being sent to me on

:32:08.:32:12.

my pay packet. We are predicted to be the fastest-growing economy in

:32:13.:32:16.

the West this year, so what you mean the policy resulted in conditions

:32:17.:32:20.

like this question in 2010, borrowing was predicted to be much

:32:21.:32:24.

lower than is now. We had three years of no growth. I welcome the

:32:25.:32:28.

growth but it's delayed, and no reason to pop out the champagne

:32:29.:32:33.

corks. Do NHS staff not deserve more than 1% pay rise? I think we have to

:32:34.:32:38.

hold back on spending in the NHS. I'm not talking the party line here

:32:39.:32:44.

but I personally do not believe it should be ring fenced. I don't

:32:45.:32:48.

believe you can do that. I don't begin make sense to say, now we're

:32:49.:32:51.

going to continue with a cast-iron ring fence of the NHS. Looking back

:32:52.:32:58.

over the last five years, one of the big mistakes, I think, is, when it

:32:59.:33:04.

came to the negotiations of public sector, over the increase in

:33:05.:33:09.

retirement age, we backed off. That was a huge mistake. It is the cost

:33:10.:33:14.

of these pensions which is going to really cripple us. The message to

:33:15.:33:19.

the unions who will be balloting their staff? And workers about this

:33:20.:33:25.

pay rise? What do you say to them as they go for industrial action? I

:33:26.:33:29.

hope it doesn't result in industrial action but I do understand why

:33:30.:33:33.

workers are angry after year India's pay restraint. In the NHS, seeing

:33:34.:33:37.

money going on the reorganisation nobody wanted. I hope the unions

:33:38.:33:42.

understand that, too, and they understand the reason we are going

:33:43.:33:51.

through this because the previous Government did this. Thank you very

:33:52.:33:57.

much for that. Now forget the Gandhis, the Grimaldis, the Hanovers

:33:58.:34:00.

and the Sauds. Today it's all about the Johnson Dynasty. So who exactly

:34:01.:34:04.

is Stanley Johnson, and why does he have so many famous children? Is it

:34:05.:34:08.

in the genes? What did he give them for breakfast? Here's our David on

:34:09.:34:13.

the House of Johnson. THEME FROM DYNASTY.

:34:14.:34:17.

This is the story of a family. A dynasty at the heart of the

:34:18.:34:20.

political establishment driven by power, ambition and big, big hair.

:34:21.:34:25.

They are the Johnsons. There's dad, Stanley. He is a former MEP, who

:34:26.:34:29.

worked for the World Bank, and stood for Parliament unsuccessfully as a

:34:30.:34:36.

Tory candidate. I think the whole thing is a racket. Sister Rachel is

:34:37.:34:39.

a former editor of the Lady magazine, a columnist and never

:34:40.:34:43.

short of an opinion or three. David Cameron even though he is taller,

:34:44.:34:46.

looks at Boris as if he is still head boy. Leo shuns the limelight.

:34:47.:34:52.

He's the one in orange but he, too, is a high-flyer, an expert in

:34:53.:34:57.

sustainability. And then, of course, there's the other one. Former Tory

:34:58.:35:00.

MP, Mayor of London, star of quizzes, and possibly future

:35:01.:35:03.

Conservative leader or even perhaps Prime Minister. The normal laws of

:35:04.:35:08.

political gravity don't apply for him, but just what is it about the

:35:09.:35:15.

Johnson family? I think they are very exceptional. Astonishingly

:35:16.:35:23.

competitive, nomadic. Hardy. Determined to tell every possible

:35:24.:35:28.

joke on every possible occasion. I can't think of anyone quite like

:35:29.:35:32.

them. Now, there is another brother and he is on Boris's turf. Joe

:35:33.:35:37.

Johnson is the Conservative MP for Orpington, head of David Cameron's

:35:38.:35:40.

number ten policy unit and perhaps something of a dark horse.

:35:41.:35:46.

Joe is a brilliant man. He's played it completely differently to Boris.

:35:47.:35:52.

He has never given an interview to a national newspaper despite having

:35:53.:35:55.

worked as a journalist himself so he's an insider, hoping to work out

:35:56.:35:59.

what is going to be in the Tory manifesto. There is Boris performing

:36:00.:36:04.

to audiences of millions. And delighting people by going on

:36:05.:36:08.

programmes like Have I Got News For You. So completely different

:36:09.:36:10.

tactics, but they are both very, very serious, seriously competitive

:36:11.:36:16.

figures, who want to get to the top. But it would appear, in a family

:36:17.:36:19.

like the Johnsons, there can only be one leader. One who appointed

:36:20.:36:26.

himself that at a very early age. They are very loyal to each other

:36:27.:36:30.

and I think they do care about each other but I think, of course, there

:36:31.:36:34.

is sibling rivalry. Boris is winning. Boris wants to go on

:36:35.:36:37.

winning. He announced at a very early age he intended to be world

:36:38.:36:41.

king, and so far, he has stayed ahead. Who knows what I had for the

:36:42.:36:45.

Johnson clan? World King might seem a little ambitious, even for someone

:36:46.:36:48.

as confident as Boris. With this family, you just never know. Stanley

:36:49.:36:58.

Johnson cringing during that. You're watching the Daily Politics and

:36:59.:37:01.

we've been joined by viewers in Scotland who have been watching

:37:02.:37:03.

First Minister's Questions from Holyrood. Why are you such a

:37:04.:37:07.

successful high achieving family? I want to make a point for the record

:37:08.:37:11.

here and that is there is also Leo Johnson, a seriously high achiever

:37:12.:37:18.

with PwC, Price Waterhouse. There is Julia Johnson, a fabulous singer and

:37:19.:37:25.

teacher of Latin, Max Johnson, who works the Goldman Sachs in Hong

:37:26.:37:31.

Kong. What is your secret? When people say I am Boris's dad, I have

:37:32.:37:36.

to say I'm lots of people's dad and I'm proud of them all. As for the

:37:37.:37:41.

secret, there is no secret at all. My view was, send the ball off to

:37:42.:37:44.

good schools, and let the good schools to the hard grind. So you

:37:45.:37:51.

handle it over to somebody else. What about the description of how

:37:52.:37:55.

competitive, all the siblings are. Does that help produce high

:37:56.:38:00.

achievers? It's rubbish. Total rubbish. OK, they might say who can

:38:01.:38:04.

get the biggest fish cake when fishcakes come through the hatch?

:38:05.:38:09.

There was a moment when the was a competition and that was who could

:38:10.:38:15.

eat the mince pie quickest? It was a Christmas mince pie. Boris grabbed

:38:16.:38:20.

it and ate it and he burned his throat. Did he learn a moral for

:38:21.:38:27.

life as a result of that? Mince pies, if they are too hard, I think

:38:28.:38:30.

there's a wider lesson there if you have mince pies. What about the

:38:31.:38:36.

nomadic side? My life has been constantly on the move. The World

:38:37.:38:40.

Bank, United Nations, the EU, for the last 15 years, I had been

:38:41.:38:44.

travelling around the world. Two weeks ago, I was in Colombia. I had

:38:45.:38:48.

a nice meeting with William Hague and that keeps me going. I write

:38:49.:38:52.

books mainly about what the world needs to do about the environment.

:38:53.:38:56.

Nomadic is fine for the I get back to life time to time, especially by

:38:57.:39:02.

masks the car on the Daily Politics show. Now let's talk a little bit

:39:03.:39:07.

about Boris. You love your children equally, but when it comes to

:39:08.:39:10.

Boris, how likely do think he will be at number ten? You have slightly

:39:11.:39:15.

sprung this one on me, I have to say. My line is very clear. Michael

:39:16.:39:26.

Cockerill, he recorded me saying that, where there ever to be a

:39:27.:39:31.

leadership contest in the Conservative Party, then I think it

:39:32.:39:34.

would be a fair reflection of the current situation if Boris at least

:39:35.:39:41.

good be one of the candidates. That is what I think. What about changing

:39:42.:39:46.

the rules? I don't think you have to change the rules for them as I

:39:47.:39:52.

recall it, for example, in 1960, 63, Alex Douglas whom were certainly not

:39:53.:39:56.

a member of the House of Commons, yeti was able to stand in a contest

:39:57.:39:59.

for them are not an expert on the rules. OK, we don't do smoke-filled

:40:00.:40:06.

rooms any longer but I can't believe there might not be a way of ensuring

:40:07.:40:10.

that if Boris is not an MP, was still the Mayor of London,

:40:11.:40:13.

nevertheless they could be a formula which says elected Mayers or elected

:40:14.:40:17.

personages are also entitled to put their names forward. What about Joe?

:40:18.:40:27.

Go for it. Here's the 2010 vintage. I read its a very fine vintage. A

:40:28.:40:34.

fine claret or a fine wine. Yes, it's not for me. I look with joy and

:40:35.:40:43.

gladness at all of this. Thank you. I'm sorry if we sprung out on you.

:40:44.:40:50.

Now, to cull badgers or not to cull badgers. MPs are debating two

:40:51.:40:53.

controversial pilot schemes today, critics say they're ineffective and

:40:54.:40:56.

inhumane. Well, our Adam's been talking to two MPs who have rather

:40:57.:41:02.

strong views. So DEFRA has been trialling the idea

:41:03.:41:06.

of a badger cull into areas in England. In Gloucestershire and

:41:07.:41:08.

Somerset. The results of an independent assessment of that have

:41:09.:41:11.

been leaked and it suggests that didn't go that well. It's now going

:41:12.:41:15.

to the subject of a Parliamentary debate. A motion laid by the Green

:41:16.:41:18.

MP Caroline Lucas who joins us alongside the Tory MP Simon Hart who

:41:19.:41:22.

used to run the Countryside Alliance. Caroline, why do we need

:41:23.:41:24.

yet another Parliamentary debate about the issue of badgers? I think

:41:25.:41:28.

really the debate because it's absolutely crucial that the

:41:29.:41:31.

Government is held to account on the results of the pilots which have

:41:32.:41:37.

taken place so far. And it doesn't push ahead with yet more culls

:41:38.:41:41.

without looking at the evidence. The evidence has already been leaked by

:41:42.:41:43.

the independent panel, demonstrates that, even by the government's own

:41:44.:41:46.

estimates, it's been a spectacular failure. It is meant to cull 70%

:41:47.:41:55.

within six weeks and even extending both periods meant that those

:41:56.:41:59.

targets were not met and it was opposed the measure effectiveness

:42:00.:42:02.

and humaneness. On both counts, the evidence from them shows it was not

:42:03.:42:08.

met, so given the evidence, if God be the case of the Government looks

:42:09.:42:12.

to alternative measures. A combination of badger vaccinations,

:42:13.:42:17.

restricting cattle movements, I/O Security, testing. That is how to

:42:18.:42:22.

protect cattle and badgers. The report was leaked. It's not the real

:42:23.:42:28.

deal yet. Are you jumping the gun? We can see those periods were

:42:29.:42:32.

extended and we know that those targets were not met. And we also

:42:33.:42:38.

know that culling can only reduce the incidence by 12%-16%. That is

:42:39.:42:49.

what the randomised cull showed. Even if all of the other things were

:42:50.:42:54.

equal, you would only reduce the incidence by 12%-16%. There are much

:42:55.:42:59.

more effective ways of doing it. Simon, we don't have the full

:43:00.:43:03.

picture although Caroline has given a lot of statistics which paint a

:43:04.:43:06.

damning picture about this idea of culling. Some of what Caroline says

:43:07.:43:12.

is right. We don't know the context of the report by the gall of those

:43:13.:43:15.

measures, of course, it's a package of things needed to eradicate it. No

:43:16.:43:21.

one will say culling will do it on its own but everyone to reduced by

:43:22.:43:26.

just a few percentage points, then culling will have its part. Of

:43:27.:43:31.

course, we will learn lessons. It wasn't perfect for the nobody is

:43:32.:43:35.

claiming that. There were lots of reasons for that. We are pointing in

:43:36.:43:39.

the right direction and it's important we look of a welfare

:43:40.:43:44.

issues for badgers and cattle. There's a economic impact here, too.

:43:45.:43:50.

And, of course, taxpayers fork note 100 million pound a year for this.

:43:51.:43:55.

We have to do eradicate it. They are managing that in Ireland because

:43:56.:43:58.

they have a properly sustained inhumane and cull. How does is

:43:59.:44:06.

actually affect farmers? You can lose 20%, half of your dairy herd

:44:07.:44:12.

overnight if you test positive. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's

:44:13.:44:16.

heartbreaking sight when you're cattle you have bred with love are

:44:17.:44:21.

literally taken away for slaughter. Some have to be slaughtered on the

:44:22.:44:23.

yard because they are pregnant. It damages your whole milk production,

:44:24.:44:28.

you can't sell your milk, get rid of your cattle. It's a devastating

:44:29.:44:33.

thing. It's been going on 30 years and we are still no further forward

:44:34.:44:37.

and we have to bring this to a close sensibly. Work together and not use

:44:38.:44:45.

this as a tribal warfare between us. Is this tribal warfare ever going to

:44:46.:44:49.

come to an end? I think it's not looking at the evidence. My heart

:44:50.:44:52.

goes out to those farmers and my concern is making sure we have a

:44:53.:44:57.

good policy. To protect farmers and cattle and the badgers for them the

:44:58.:45:01.

evidence is, the culling does not work so let's look at alternatives.

:45:02.:45:06.

Thank you for joining us. Lots of very passionate argument that we're

:45:07.:45:09.

going to hear this afternoon in House of Commons as MPs discuss what

:45:10.:45:18.

to do about badgers and bovine TB. I am in a dilemma here, I am a great

:45:19.:45:22.

fan of Caroline Lucas, it is superb we have got a green MP, apropos the

:45:23.:45:29.

issue itself, I have a farm on Exmoor. We have had a cull, not in

:45:30.:45:35.

the last run, about ten years ago. I think a lot of what Simon said was

:45:36.:45:38.

right, but the real issue is the suffering of the badgers. A diseased

:45:39.:45:45.

badgers suffers terribly. We need to make a huge effort on the vaccine,

:45:46.:45:50.

that is honestly a desperate, desperate, urgent need. I will make

:45:51.:45:55.

one point if I may, a more or less funny point. This morning as I

:45:56.:45:59.

picked up the Guardian, which I do read from time to time, David

:46:00.:46:06.

McIntosh, a marksman, in a court in Gloucestershire, he was asked to pay

:46:07.:46:13.

a ?91 fine. Why? Because he drove a van full of dead badgers into a bus

:46:14.:46:17.

stop. Why was it full of dead badgers? Because the police radio

:46:18.:46:25.

got under his accelerator pedal. Why did he have a police radio? That is

:46:26.:46:29.

a mystery! Were the police in contact with him? In treating! -- in

:46:30.:46:34.

treating! From next month, Powys county

:46:35.:46:45.

council takes over from the Office of estate agents, so if you have a

:46:46.:46:56.

problem like this, you know who to go to.

:46:57.:46:59.

It is a perfect place to escape the modern world, a deserted coastline

:47:00.:47:04.

with the vast skies, dotted with tiny period cottages. You might be

:47:05.:47:08.

tempted by this former fisherman's house. After all, the estate agent

:47:09.:47:13.

called it an opportunity not to be missed. But if this is your dream

:47:14.:47:17.

home, well, meet your future neighbour, the Dungeness nuclear

:47:18.:47:21.

power station. But these estate agent's details make no mention at

:47:22.:47:25.

all of the power station, and all the photographs of the cottage have

:47:26.:47:29.

all been taken from the one place where it cannot be seen looming in

:47:30.:47:33.

the background. Neither estate agent selling the property would comments

:47:34.:47:37.

today. I bet they wouldn't! We are joined

:47:38.:47:42.

by the chair of the national trading standards board and James full sight

:47:43.:47:48.

of the Spectator. So the job of regulating estate agents will fall

:47:49.:47:53.

to local authorities, why? The Government has changed the consumer

:47:54.:47:58.

landscape, a this was a function which it previously administered,

:47:59.:48:12.

and it had to go somewhere. We operate through local authority

:48:13.:48:16.

trading standards departments. We went through a tendering process,

:48:17.:48:21.

Powys was the successful bidder. Buying a house or flat is probably

:48:22.:48:24.

the biggest purchase most people make in our lives, and added to that

:48:25.:48:29.

estate agents are not a profession with an unblemished reputation. You

:48:30.:48:34.

want the most rigorous and strongest protections. Also, it is very hard

:48:35.:48:38.

to see how Powys county council can be aware of particular problems that

:48:39.:48:42.

might be affecting the market in Bristol or London, and so I

:48:43.:48:49.

think... So you are calling for a more decentralised set up? Either

:48:50.:48:57.

that or a national setup. IU downgrading the role? It sounds like

:48:58.:49:04.

an esoteric decision to put a national thing in Powys but why not

:49:05.:49:12.

somewhere else? All we are doing is following through the estate agency

:49:13.:49:19.

act, the estate agents act, which is 35 years old. Estate agencies were

:49:20.:49:24.

very different then. The power it gives is to ban somebody from acting

:49:25.:49:30.

as an estate agent. It does not say, we are stamping them with our

:49:31.:49:33.

approval. This is a function that can be carried out more or less

:49:34.:49:40.

anywhere. Will it give the consumer the same protection? It is the same

:49:41.:49:44.

function, my concern is that the estate agents act of 1979 is 35

:49:45.:49:50.

years old, and I do not know how many properties you have purchased

:49:51.:49:54.

in the last 35 years, but you will have noticed how the markets has

:49:55.:49:58.

changed dramatically. We have now got estate agents to act both for

:49:59.:50:05.

the seller and for the purchaser, a built in conflict of interest. This

:50:06.:50:08.

ought to be regulated but we have not got the framework. I would feel

:50:09.:50:15.

the same if they had ascended to Bedfordshire or Buckinghamshire. I

:50:16.:50:19.

think Lord Harris is right is that you need proactive regulation in

:50:20.:50:24.

that you need people to be acting against estate agents that are known

:50:25.:50:27.

to be involved in sharp practice. You want somebody saying, we will

:50:28.:50:31.

address that problem. I do not see how, in Powys, with the best will in

:50:32.:50:35.

the world, they can be aware of problems across the nation. These

:50:36.:50:41.

cases where somebody is struck off, they are generated locally. The

:50:42.:50:45.

local trading standards department with local knowledge will pick this

:50:46.:50:49.

up and refer it up. Usually, these are people with a track record of

:50:50.:50:54.

bad behaviour. This is not a case of the last quango in Powys... Well

:50:55.:51:02.

done, you got the line out! I have met the staff will be taking on the

:51:03.:51:05.

function, they are dedicated, determined, and they want to deliver

:51:06.:51:12.

the best they can. They are doing it on a shoestring budget. It seems to

:51:13.:51:16.

me that considering the size of the market, to spend only ?170,000 on

:51:17.:51:21.

regulating every estate agent does not seem a proportionate response.

:51:22.:51:26.

If anyone has a problem, write to you two about it! Thank you very

:51:27.:51:30.

much. We are told, although it might just

:51:31.:51:34.

be a vicious rumours spread by Westminster gossipmongers, but it

:51:35.:51:37.

was a bad night for London's West End. Les Miserables, The Mousetrap

:51:38.:51:45.

and The 39 Steps were performing to empty houses because talented MPs

:51:46.:51:49.

were performing at the annual big cabaret bash for Macmillan Cancer

:51:50.:51:56.

Support, and Adam had tickets to the hottest show in town.

:51:57.:51:59.

The nights that politics goes a bit spangly. I wonder how many seconds

:52:00.:52:05.

it will be before someone says... Politics is show business for ugly

:52:06.:52:10.

people. It is a good cause, a bit of fun, all politicians are show-offs.

:52:11.:52:15.

Who is the most talented member of the Cabinet? That is a loaded

:52:16.:52:20.

question! The Prime Minister! Have you ever seen him do singing or tap

:52:21.:52:25.

dancing? Not singing or tap dancing, that wasn't the question you asked!

:52:26.:52:30.

I answered in my best diplomatic style. What public figure would

:52:31.:52:35.

humiliate themselves for free? This is all in the name of a good cause,

:52:36.:52:40.

in this case Macmillan Cancer. Some people have paid five grand for a

:52:41.:52:42.

table here. Things got off to a jazzy start with

:52:43.:52:54.

Lib Dem MP John Hemming on piano, alongside the very tall Jesse

:52:55.:53:00.

Norman, performing a ditty composed by Lord Glassman, putting the blues

:53:01.:53:09.

into blue Labour. The truth of the matter is that, actually, these days

:53:10.:53:13.

are thrilled to find politicians do other things than just pontificate

:53:14.:53:16.

about things they do not know much about. Politicians playing jazz is

:53:17.:53:23.

an insult to jazz. Lord Lothian looked like he should be in a Greek

:53:24.:53:26.

to burn until it turned out he is actually amazing, performing along

:53:27.:53:36.

with his daughter! -- Taverna. Do you have any groupies? Not that I

:53:37.:53:42.

know! Lord Dobbs showed us what it would be like if Noel Coward did the

:53:43.:53:48.

international news. # How long can we wait until

:53:49.:53:56.

Brussels puts a cap on it? Then it was the House of Commons

:53:57.:54:00.

band who reckon they have raised about ?1 million for charity since

:54:01.:54:06.

forming a decade ago. # So Sally can wait...

:54:07.:54:14.

While Baroness Knights did a brilliant impression of my Gran

:54:15.:54:17.

after a few sherries. When you and I were young...

:54:18.:54:38.

Handling them, the man management is always a problem, people being ill,

:54:39.:54:41.

people dropping numbers, changing numbers, even on the night. I am not

:54:42.:54:47.

singing that now! So they are slightly devious. I thought I would

:54:48.:54:56.

sing something else! And some recently reshuffled ministers trying

:54:57.:55:03.

to sing through the pain. # Today is the day the Government

:55:04.:55:07.

likes to shuffle... Normally I would sum up with

:55:08.:55:10.

something sarcastic but heart-warming, but how can I compete

:55:11.:55:19.

with any of this talented bunch?! You cannot compete, certainly not

:55:20.:55:24.

with that last bit, and Goldilocks, dare I say it, is with us now,

:55:25.:55:31.

although not in costume! A shame! I was actually dead to sort of Sid

:55:32.:55:36.

there demurely in Prime Minister's Questions with that we're gone, but

:55:37.:55:41.

I don't think I will. I do not think they would let you in! I should

:55:42.:55:46.

introduce you as Michael Fabricant! It was a great night, and importance

:55:47.:55:51.

night, we raised about ?100,000 for Macmillan Cancer Support, and it is

:55:52.:55:57.

a marvellous charity. Do you wish you were there? I wish I was! I went

:55:58.:56:04.

up to Lichfield talking about HS2, not now! We have not got enough

:56:05.:56:10.

time! What would your turn the, if you were doing a turn? I would like

:56:11.:56:18.

to seeing Hey Jude, but I have never got to the end. -- sing. We might be

:56:19.:56:26.

able to arrange that! What was the highlight for you? This might be a

:56:27.:56:29.

downer, but it was a young man who got up and said, my wife, when she

:56:30.:56:36.

was pregnant, got cancer. Whoever thinks of a pregnant young woman

:56:37.:56:40.

getting cancer? And we learned, we all know that Macmillan do a great

:56:41.:56:45.

job for people with cancer, but they actually look after the families

:56:46.:56:49.

when there has been a bereavement, and I didn't know that. I thought

:56:50.:56:54.

that was very valuable. It was not a highlight in the sense of enjoyment,

:56:55.:57:00.

but that was the overriding thing. And entertainment highlight was, I

:57:01.:57:05.

think, Lord Colwyn with his jazz bands doing traditional jazz, which

:57:06.:57:10.

I love, Jesse Norman was absolutely superb on the trumpet. Were you

:57:11.:57:16.

surprised about the talents of? I thought Jesse Norman was going to

:57:17.:57:22.

sing, I had no idea. Lots of MPs blow their trumpets! Some are better

:57:23.:57:24.

at it than others, so make more noise. Someone said to me, if you do

:57:25.:57:31.

not blow your own trumpet, someone else will use it as a spittoon. Who

:57:32.:57:37.

would you like to see on stage next year? Someone whose talents I know

:57:38.:57:41.

nothing about, like Jesse Norman. It is amazing that these things come

:57:42.:57:45.

out of the woodwork, presumably a lot of MPs and Lords are either

:57:46.:57:50.

musical or talented actors and actresses. You say would work, I

:57:51.:57:58.

think that is very unkind! Apropos the question of the mouse... We will

:57:59.:58:03.

come to the mouse in a moment! Do you know what is going on?! He has

:58:04.:58:08.

just reminded me! Thank you very much for taking part. Before we go,

:58:09.:58:14.

as Stanley has reminded me, the quiz, MPs have been told they cannot

:58:15.:58:17.

have a cat in the Commons to deal with the mouse problem, it is the

:58:18.:58:22.

best way, but why not? Because it would steal their thunder, the

:58:23.:58:26.

speaker is allergic, it might get too fat, or it might scratch the

:58:27.:58:32.

throne? Do you want to ask Michael? You are the guest. It is the throne,

:58:33.:58:38.

I am 100% sure, possible damage to the Heritage. You are 100% wrong, it

:58:39.:58:44.

is the leftover food! You don't get a prize, I am afraid. That is all

:58:45.:58:48.

for today, thank you for being our guest. Andrew is back after Question

:58:49.:58:50.

Time. Bye-bye!

:58:51.:58:53.

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